0:00

The Around the NFL podcast

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runs the entire route tree

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poorly.

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Welcome to another edition of Around

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the NFL.

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My name is Dan Hans's got heroes here, Greg

0:16

Rosenthal, Mark Sessler very

0:19

special edition of

0:21

ATM. It is the one with the wide

0:23

receivers in friends

0:26

style. Boys,

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We're gonna dive deep today

0:31

on what is a very rich and

0:33

promising wide receiver class. And

0:36

I will say this, greggie wide

0:38

quarterback is always gonna have the most juice right naturally,

0:41

because they are the most important player. They

0:44

can change the fortune and

0:46

direction of a franchise immediately,

0:49

the most recent example, of course being CJ. Stroud

0:51

in Houston. However, to

0:54

me, it is wide receivers that

0:58

that gets my juice flown in the sense of you

1:01

want to fix your offense, you

1:03

can do it overnight. Because

1:05

these guys are now entering the league and so many

1:07

of them are instant you know,

1:10

number two, fringe, number

1:12

one guys, some guy, the special ones are immediate

1:14

superstars. So when

1:16

you hear about this class in particular, it

1:19

feels like we're gonna get a couple of those this year and maybe

1:21

more.

1:22

That's a great point.

1:23

Dan Receivers out of rookie

1:25

contract before like a CD lamb until

1:28

he's gonna get paid whatever he's going to get paid

1:30

this offseason is such a ridiculous

1:33

value. And I think the contracts

1:35

top right receivers are getting there kind of reflecting

1:38

that after quarterback,

1:40

if you had to pick one position that

1:43

you think is the most valuable, it's

1:45

either left tackle, receiver or

1:48

edge, but it might be number

1:50

one true number one receiver, and there's

1:52

only so many of those, and that's a bit of a

1:54

flip compared to what teams

1:57

thought about, you know, ten to fifteen years ago.

1:59

I also like, I wonder if what

2:01

we're experiencing with this

2:03

draft class, you know, and it certainly

2:06

stands out wideer serier wise from from

2:08

others they've been, they've been, they're getting better and better, and

2:10

it's like, is this at some

2:12

point the new norm? Because I think like the one

2:15

starting to watch these guys, like so

2:17

many of them, like usually it's like, oh, he's

2:19

really good at this, but he's got to work on this with

2:21

NFL coaches to kind of get up to stuff. So

2:23

many of them look completely prepared

2:26

to start right away, and we aren't that far

2:28

away from a time when like you could draft a wide

2:30

out outside of like the top one, two or three, and

2:32

they're kind of ghosts until season two

2:35

or even three sometimes. But these guys look like ready

2:37

to roll immediately, a big junk of

2:39

them.

2:40

They're out there doing those seven on sevens and

2:42

and the quarter you know, quarterback

2:45

camps and all that stuff, and they're practicing

2:48

on air. And it's why I take exception to the money

2:50

drop. I can run an out route

2:52

walk. It's Walker's favorite thing in the world. To

2:54

go over to the middle school. They got a nice football

2:56

field which has some open and we're

2:58

practicing quite a bit where throwing routes

3:01

and I break off that route.

3:03

I can get off press coverage.

3:05

I mean, Greg, what if you have like a six to two

3:07

hundred and something pound cornerback jamming you at

3:09

the line, how's your out out route looking?

3:11

Then I'm just gonna duck under them. I kind of I do this

3:13

little movie.

3:14

Yes, slip it. Okay, you're

3:16

undersize, you're forty five years old.

3:18

Like, let's know our limitations,

3:21

Bud, Like you can't play on the

3:23

outside, you'd get man handled.

3:24

The route tree is complete, though,

3:26

you know.

3:27

The idea of like again, you've

3:29

you've been down on Hunter Renfro in the past,

3:32

like that's kind of your ceiling, bud, Like

3:34

that's what you have to operate in that realm.

3:36

I don't want to be the bear of bad news.

3:39

Like I'm an inline tight end blocker, like

3:41

I know, and maybe hit me at the

3:43

at the in the red zone or a little misdirection,

3:45

but.

3:46

I see at least five aj

3:48

green.

3:48

You know.

3:49

I mean to say that Hunter Renfro

3:51

is Greg's ceiling. It's like the ceiling three

3:54

stories up on a building from where Greg is

3:56

or any I know.

3:56

I'm just trying to like rein them in somewhat

3:59

to saying putting in some work lately?

4:02

Are you running these routes against your your held

4:04

your son again?

4:05

Too much time?

4:06

We got that football, you know that football where it's got the

4:08

routes on the football. So if I love that check,

4:10

you know, what's what's a five route?

4:14

Now?

4:14

There's no defenders there?

4:15

Okay?

4:16

And by the way, coming up just a little bit, Matt

4:18

Harmon, he of the

4:21

reception perception fame,

4:23

and we'll talk them out about what that means and

4:25

which players are really jumping out to him.

4:28

But before we kind of get to Matt.

4:31

Yeah.

4:32

I mean every team can use a number one,

4:34

right, even the teams that have a number one.

4:36

What's better than one? Number one? Two number ones?

4:39

It's the most second most supporting position, a backup

4:41

quarterback, and the third most The

4:44

third is the backup back up quarterback.

4:46

Charlie Casserly, where are you, buddy, Greg?

4:50

Who's a team or teams

4:52

that really jump out to you that are going to be all over

4:55

this wide receiver class when you look at what they currently

4:57

have in house.

4:58

There were so many when we did this, like

5:00

I wrote down no less than fourteen. It's

5:02

crazy, like as many good receivers have come

5:04

in so many needs. But Baltimore is one that

5:06

I think is high profile that hasn't gotten a lot

5:09

of attention. Like Zay Flowers

5:11

is not a one, Rashad

5:13

Bateman is not a two. Aglar

5:16

would probably be best as a four. So

5:19

they're not gonna find a one most likely in this class.

5:21

But man, they're counting a lot

5:23

on Rashad Bateman right now, and maybe they'll pick up a veteran

5:26

at some point, but that is a high profile team and

5:28

just staying in that division too. You kind of you

5:30

look at Cincinnati. The most Cincinnati move in the

5:32

world is just replacing Tyler Boyd one

5:34

for one in this draft with the slot receiver.

5:36

I could see that happening. And then Pittsburgh they have

5:38

one receiver.

5:39

It's George Pickens, who hasn't exactly

5:41

been the most reliable player in the world. And they're they're

5:43

two and three. Is I don't even know who quit?

5:46

They really don't have a two or three. It's Qus

5:48

Watkins, it's Calvin Austin, it's Van

5:50

Jefferson. So that division, all

5:53

those teams need receivers. The Bounds are the only team

5:55

they look pretty solid.

5:56

Yeah, cycling back to to Baltimore,

5:59

I trust the Ravens in so many ways

6:01

in terms of roster building, but they've

6:03

proven time and time again that they they

6:05

can't find a number one wide receiver. If

6:07

they're franchise, is life depended

6:10

on it? Not that Zay Flowers is a bad

6:12

pick.

6:12

I know you're a good pick.

6:13

I think you're right that he has

6:15

the ceiling to be, you know, even a Pro Bowl player,

6:17

But he's maybe not the number one you mentioned Rashad

6:20

Bateman. He was also a first round pick.

6:22

Is there a third first round pick. Who's the other name he threw out there,

6:24

Nelson a.

6:28

Philly.

6:29

He was another high for a high round pick.

6:31

Odell Beckham they brought in last year thinking

6:33

he would fill a role and that didn't

6:35

really work out either. So would the Ravens

6:38

go back to the well once again with the kind

6:40

of the one blind spot when it comes to real left

6:42

identify talent you've

6:44

got.

6:45

You brought in Todd Mounkin and they they you

6:48

know, correctly addressed wide out a year ago, but

6:50

then you've lost like Odell Beckham's gone, and like

6:52

you're kind of back where you started from, and like this

6:54

is the draft class to do it. I think there's a couple

6:56

of teams, like, you know, it's a little more overt,

6:59

but I see like coaches

7:01

getting canned if they don't figure out what they're

7:03

doing at wide out. In some situations,

7:05

like the Arizona Cardinals, they've got literally

7:08

they've got a fringed number two

7:10

type of guy and nobody else, and it's like they're

7:12

in a weird place because it's like everyone points to them

7:15

as the team that's going to trade with the Vikings

7:17

to get Minnesota up to number four to take

7:19

their quarterback. But then it's like, Okay,

7:21

you pass on Marvin Harrison

7:23

Junior, when like, the most important

7:25

player in your franchise history in the modern day

7:27

age was Larry Fitzgerald. You can go get that

7:29

player a version of that player again. It's

7:31

like I think Cardinals fans they're really split

7:34

and they're divided on like, wait, do we trade

7:36

these do we acquire picks and

7:38

get lesser players, or do we get

7:40

this guy who can change the franchise for

7:43

fifteen years twelve?

7:44

I'm with you.

7:45

They all this talk that like, oh, the Bears should

7:47

they take Roma Dunes at Nins, Like he's not getting

7:49

there because there's too many teams

7:51

in front that will be taking receivers

7:54

and the Cardinals are one of them. And if the Bears

7:56

do have a chance they can they they should because

7:59

they need to receive. They've got They've got

8:01

DJ Moore, They've got Keenan Allen who's a thirty two

8:03

year old on a one year contract in nothing else.

8:05

And I look at the AFC East and the Dolphins

8:07

are all set. They're loaded.

8:09

They have maybe the best one two punch in

8:12

the league with Tyreek Hill and Waddle.

8:15

But the Bills, their struggles.

8:18

To have a real wide receiver room

8:21

were well documented before they traded Stefan

8:23

Diggs, so you would think they will be all over

8:25

one of these prospects we're going to talk about with

8:28

Matt Harmon in a bit. The Patriots

8:30

are a team that is screaming

8:32

out for some juice and who is Who's

8:35

it now? They're gonna most likely target

8:37

a quarterback at the top of the class,

8:39

but they could use wide receiver help, and you

8:42

imagine they're going to go hard at this group. And then

8:44

the Jets, who have Garrett Wilson,

8:46

who is a budding superstar entering

8:49

his third year who could be a monster if

8:51

Aaron Rodgers stays on the field. Mike Williams

8:53

was I thought a nice move to bring him in, But

8:56

you can't assume Mike Williams

8:58

is going to stay healthy coming off in ACL and all his

9:00

issues. The Jets sitting where they are in

9:02

the draft, like, I'm of that.

9:04

I'm of the.

9:05

Thought like if Joe Alt is there, who's

9:07

as flawless as an offensive lineman

9:09

prospects as

9:12

you'll see, if he is off the board

9:14

by the time the Jets pick at what eight, I believe

9:17

I'm going and grabbing one of the ten, is it?

9:20

Sorry, I'm grabbing one of these wide

9:22

receivers because they're gonna one

9:24

of these big guys will be there because

9:26

of all the teams that are picking a quarterback at the top

9:28

of the top ten. So that's a team

9:30

that jumps out to me like that would be you

9:33

want to get as somebody who's obviously been

9:36

struggling a little bit as a Jets fan after

9:38

last year's harrowing season.

9:41

If you pair Garrett Wilson with one

9:44

of these gifted young players and then

9:46

everything else they have Breese Hall

9:48

and Mike Williams is a three. I

9:51

mean, you can really start to get excited.

9:53

So we'll see if they go that route.

9:56

Yeah, well, Holts are a team at fifteen that I

9:58

think are a nice spot. Like Brian miss Junior

10:00

to them is one of my favorite matches. But because

10:02

of what you just said, and because of going through the top

10:04

ten and thinking like, well, which team doesn't

10:06

need a receiver here, I kind of think he'll

10:10

go higher than people expect and we'll get

10:12

to him a little more later. But like

10:14

the Titans, they could still use a receiver. I know, everyone

10:17

just thinks it's tackle tackle tackle. They could absolutely

10:19

use a receiver on that team. Still,

10:22

the Falcons could absolutely use a ride receiver, like

10:24

even teams later in the draft. Not that they're going to

10:26

trade up for these top guys, but like the forty nine

10:28

Ers have to think about the future of replacing either Deebo

10:31

or Ayuk. The Lions, they love

10:33

Aman Ross Saint Brown, but he's an inside guy, and

10:35

yeah outside it's like you're hope and Jamison Williams

10:38

works out, it's Josh Reynolds. Like they need

10:40

receivers. The Panthers are still shortened weapons.

10:42

They're just like so many teams. To me, that's

10:44

why I just think there's gonna be what twelve

10:47

receivers maybe go in the first two rounds. It's gonna

10:50

be a lot.

10:50

But you can't get this far and not mentioned like the Chargers,

10:52

who, like, I mean, this offseason has been a disaster

10:55

on that front. I think like it's one of those

10:57

times where what the draft provides

11:00

couldn't match more perfectly with the way

11:02

football operates right now. You don't have to it's not

11:04

nineteen eighty six. You don't have like one wide receiver and

11:06

a number two and a bunch of tight ends and fullbacks.

11:08

You need four or five of these dudes.

11:10

Not to mention, we're coming off a somewhat me year

11:12

from wide receiver in

11:14

twenty three, So those teams that

11:17

have been looking for wide receiver helped weren't able

11:19

to get it in most cases last year. So

11:21

now it goes down

11:23

that road, and I thought you were going to go in a different direction,

11:25

Mark in the AFC West. We cannot end

11:27

this part of the conversation without mentioning

11:30

the defending champion Chiefs, who picking

11:32

thirty two, who made a move

11:34

and got Hollywood Brown, a move I wasn't in love

11:36

with personally, and it seems so

11:38

obvious to me that there's another move

11:41

coming. My question is do they sit

11:43

where they are or do they really

11:45

go aggressively up the board

11:47

and try to get one of these big boys, because

11:50

that would be the talk of draft night if they

11:52

do get aggressive, right,

11:56

anybody else want to throw out another team?

11:59

You could just do that whole division because the Broncos,

12:01

like the Bronco sneaky, need everything.

12:04

But they have Courtland Sutton and

12:06

then just a lot of question marks tim Patrick

12:09

Mims. I mean, it's not the worst receiver group of the world,

12:11

but again, there's so few of these teams that you couldn't

12:13

see like a second round pick at receiver helping.

12:16

I waited so long for it not to be

12:20

a conversation anymore, but now that

12:22

it's here and gone, I miss it.

12:24

Like, but you know, Courtland Sutton

12:26

and Jerry Judy, they

12:29

could be dynamic.

12:32

Going to miss that conversation?

12:34

Are you You can still talk about

12:36

him in Cleveland? You know Jerry Judy, He's

12:39

he's the long term future as of Cleveland.

12:41

Are we cool with the Browns? Mark with them?

12:43

No?

12:44

Because I think what they've done is

12:46

is kind of interesting, Like Judy

12:49

and Elijah more like represent players

12:52

that others that haven't had breakout success

12:54

on any level have been frustrating. You can see

12:56

it a little potential, but other teams gave

12:58

up on them. Yeah, and Amari Cooper

13:01

is getting up there in age. I thought he had a great year last

13:03

year. But like that team has

13:05

to feel us all in with their financial

13:07

situation everything else as anyone

13:10

out there. But they don't have a lot of draft picks, but I would absolutely

13:13

want them to get a wide receiver.

13:15

You know who really helps.

13:16

Them in that realm as a playmaker, that

13:19

David Njoku. It's quite a player.

13:22

Mark, He's a good player. I've come around

13:24

on that.

13:26

All right.

13:27

With that said, let's take a quick break

13:29

and when we come back, we will have Matt

13:31

Harmon to break down some of the young

13:34

wide receiving talent about to flood into the league.

13:37

And all those teams we just talked.

13:38

About, many of them, well all of them are

13:40

gonna be jockeying for these guys and we'll

13:42

find out in a couple of weeks who gets him.

13:44

We'll be right back to

13:47

the answer. God touch down

13:49

Harrison again?

13:50

Why seven the occasiones Corman Harrison

13:52

Junior Flowers heading to the end?

13:54

Ze man? Is he devastating it

13:56

with a count? That's brock Powers.

13:58

There's the shot to it.

14:03

Tuesday.

14:06

My own mind, my weak neighbors

14:08

is just lighting up this morning.

14:13

Thomas

14:15

just trad sweed from Brian Thomas.

14:17

That's pretty with that, so.

14:21

Welcome back.

14:23

Yes, it's the one with the wide receivers

14:26

episode, and we just talked about

14:30

what teams are going to be aggressive on

14:33

draft weekend targeting

14:35

wide receivers the teams that make sense. But now let's

14:37

talk about the wide receivers themselves

14:40

that are entering the league. And it's a potentially

14:43

historic wide receiver class. And we think

14:45

wide receiver boys, and you think

14:48

the NFL, and you think about route

14:50

trees and you and you think about the receptions,

14:54

but you think about the perception, don't

14:56

you as well. Matt

14:58

Harmon, welcome back to

15:01

Around the NFL.

15:03

Oh Man, Dan, thank you for that intro. I

15:06

got to think about stealing that for like the start of our

15:08

own podcast. That is that

15:10

is pretty good. So I'll have my lawyers talk

15:12

to your lawyers and maybe we'll come to sort of an agreement on

15:14

on buying that ip.

15:15

There no problem working a little bit

15:17

blue to make a point.

15:19

Matt, of course, a former colleague of

15:21

ours at NFL Media was a

15:23

fantasy guy, and as he was a

15:25

fantasy guy, he created the mythology

15:27

Reception Perception, which has its own

15:29

website which you could check out, and Matt

15:31

is all over that and also of

15:34

course does writing and analysis

15:36

for Yahoo. So Matt, welcome

15:38

back to the show. And it's always good to see a friend.

15:40

And yes, even though you said it before we came

15:42

on. I'm now going to steal that little

15:45

bit of pre show banter. You've moved

15:47

away from the swoosh hair style. Then

15:49

I saw you when we lived together in El Segundo before

15:52

you move back east. You said I'm a hack guy now

15:54

and that surprised me, and quite frankly, as

15:56

a fellow follicle guy, disappointed

15:58

me. And now you got the Travis Kelcey fade.

16:01

So it looks like you're not a hat guy after all. I

16:03

would say, I'm like a fifty to fifty.

16:05

You know, when the weather is nice

16:07

and you know you're doing a lot of sweating, it makes

16:09

it's nice to have the hat. That's good.

16:12

That's that's a nice call, you know. I mean, look, Dan, see

16:14

you're a gifted hair guy or follicle guy

16:16

in your words, and you're wearing the hat right now,

16:19

so I mean, you know, it's it's good to be able to do both.

16:21

Versatility as you get older is important.

16:23

It's not an incredible upset that we've

16:25

spent the first forty percent

16:28

of this interview talking about Dan's hair.

16:32

Also, you're we're too old to do

16:34

the Travis Kelsey at least I was speaking for myself.

16:36

I'm much too old, but you pull it off.

16:38

You look like you could be the unathletic

16:41

third brother of the Kelsey.

16:43

I mean, I think I'll

16:45

take minor offense to the unathletic part

16:47

because I do like to

16:50

say that I'll work out.

16:51

I'm a gym guy as well.

16:53

But at the same time too Hall of famers, Matt,

16:55

you know.

16:56

Well, listen, if I hit

16:58

my peak a little earlier,

17:01

I think I could have gotten there. No, but in all seriousness,

17:03

I just want to say, for the record, yes, I

17:05

don't want to call it the Travis Kelce. You guys can call

17:07

it the Travis Kelce, but officially it's

17:10

a It's not the Travis Kelce. Just just just to get

17:12

that on the record.

17:13

What is it? What is what is it?

17:15

The Because my haircut is the modified

17:17

gentleman's contour? Famously, what is

17:20

yours called? It's just

17:22

a fade, just your old fade.

17:24

Okay, okay, but enough Honkin'

17:27

let's focus up. Hair is great, but these

17:29

wide receivers my own harmon

17:32

And can you give people that maybe

17:34

are not familiar with the reception perception model,

17:36

like how you came to

17:40

study the game this way, wide receivers

17:42

and playmakers this way, and what it

17:44

what it tells you, And then we'll get into

17:47

some of the players in this draft class,

17:49

which obviously have to be very exciting for what

17:51

you do.

17:52

Yeah, wide receiver business is booming right now, that's

17:54

for sure. But what reception

17:56

perception is is the methodology that I created around

17:58

like twenty thirteen, twenty four fourteen. Twenty fourteen

18:01

was the first year that I tracked league wide data

18:03

with reception perception or close to league

18:05

wide data. I'm not charting every single player in the league,

18:07

and certainly not every single college prospect,

18:10

that's for sure. But what I do is I going

18:12

over eight game sample for NFL or college

18:14

prospects when the film is available, and

18:16

chart every single route they run, where they

18:18

line up, really try to give you a view

18:21

of what a wide receiver is doing in isolation, because

18:23

all those years ago, my thought was, you

18:25

know, you're lucky if you're a receiver. You get like

18:27

eight to ten targets a game, but you're running, you

18:30

know, thirty plus routes a game. You're playing like sixty

18:32

plus snaps a game. If you're a true number one

18:34

guy, and we all know the quarterback or

18:36

wide receiver production is so inherently dependent

18:38

on quarterbacks depending on pass protection, is

18:40

dependent on like the environment that they're in. And even

18:42

we know this more now, even maybe more than we did

18:44

ten eleven years ago, that a

18:47

wide receiver is not a wide receiver, right, Like, these

18:49

guys are so different, even if they all have wr

18:52

next to their names, so reception perception

18:54

through that charting data that I'm

18:56

the only one doing the charting. You know, James Co,

18:58

my business partner, would love to maybe take some

19:00

of that work my hands. Yeah, he'd love to

19:02

add some more people to the team. But to me, you

19:05

got to pry the charting away from like

19:07

my cold dead hands. Man. That's why

19:09

I love to do. This is actually the the grunt

19:11

work of it. But through that charting data tries

19:13

to give you a real picture of who a wide receiver

19:15

is in isolation away from their production,

19:18

you know, for a variety of different reasons to try to categorize

19:21

these guys, try to understand them

19:23

within their roles and obviously from a you know, for fantasy

19:25

fans, you know, you want to try to spot a breakout before

19:28

it's coming.

19:28

I was going to ask you real quick, like, have you the same

19:31

way you know, PFF started their

19:33

own way to you know, track mythologize

19:36

like play like have you had NFL teams or

19:38

scouts of that ilk reach out

19:40

to you about about what you.

19:41

Do every now and again.

19:44

If there are any NFL folks wanting to

19:46

you know, pay me a bag that listen to this show, i'd

19:49

gladly do you guys know this as big as

19:51

big big media bros like consulting work,

19:53

That's where it's at, and I'd hire me as

19:55

your consultant.

19:56

I'd love to do it.

19:57

I don't know if that would require me taking

20:00

you know, information off the site to my loyal

20:02

subscribers, but really, I'm a man of

20:04

the people, Mark. I'm out there for

20:06

the folks that can afford a you know, thirty dollars

20:08

subscription to learn about wide receivers.

20:11

Hey, if it works out, it works out.

20:13

Whenever I meet somebody and they tell

20:15

me they're a consultant, they're almost

20:17

always very wealthy.

20:19

So that's something I want to get into one day, all right. So

20:21

with that in mind, let's get into it.

20:23

And we kind of built up the atn

20:26

Heroes here some superlatives,

20:28

and we're going to tee you up and you could

20:30

tell us which one of these prospects, because we're

20:32

hearing what three out of the top

20:34

eight picks maybe to start the draft could be

20:36

wide receivers. Maybe even better than

20:38

that, we'll see. But it's not just the

20:40

big three. There's a lot of talent and stress. So let's start

20:43

here. The twenty twenty four Reception Perception

20:45

Man Crush Award winner.

20:47

Is Oh, I'll

20:49

just start off with Roma Dunza there, because

20:52

to me, I don't watch college football

20:54

on Saturdays. You know, I'm a happily

20:56

married man, and I already ruined like

20:58

three days of the week with nfell work. It would be kind

21:01

of hard to justify to missus harmon like I'm

21:03

gonna ruin one more day of the week by watching

21:05

a bunch of college football. It's something that doesn't really

21:07

have anything to do with my job. So I'm not

21:09

super familiar with these players before

21:11

watching them for the draft, other than obviously I knew Marvin

21:14

Harrison Junior's name and knew the hype around that particular

21:16

player, So coming into this process, I didn't really

21:18

know anything about these guys. But the first time

21:20

I put on the film of Romadoonsea, I mean, whatever

21:22

superlatives you have for this exercise,

21:25

boys, I could probably say Rome's name for

21:27

most of them, because I think he is

21:29

just so good at everything. I think he's an extremely clean

21:31

prospect. He lines up on the line

21:34

of scrimmage as a true X receiver, which

21:36

is not something we could say about last year's draft

21:38

class. Right like last year's draft class, it was

21:40

a lot of guys like Jackson Smith and Jigba z

21:42

A Flowers, even Jordan Addison, these guys

21:44

that were gonna play off the ball and be

21:46

more of the kind of complimentary players. All

21:49

three of the top receivers in this draft class are

21:52

not of that ill calthough Malik Neighbors doesn't really line

21:54

up as that true X, but specifically Rome,

21:56

like he's just out there doing NFL things,

21:58

running NFL routes. I love the way he gets

22:00

off the line of scrimmag against press coverage. I think he's

22:02

a great separator. Really kind of underrated as a

22:04

separator because he has all these contested

22:07

targets on his resume, But a lot

22:09

of that is the fact he's running downfield routes. He

22:11

has a quarterback, he's willing to trust him in those tight

22:13

areas. To me, he just looks like kind

22:15

of a I had did prospect comparisons

22:18

like aggressive and cautious comps for a

22:20

Yahoo video series this year. My

22:23

cautious comp for him was Alan Robinson, like another

22:25

guy that just you can line him up at X back

22:27

in his prime and you could win there. You know, it's

22:29

kind of short to intermediate, but also be a contested

22:31

catch threat. My aggressive comp for him was

22:34

DeVante Adams, another guy that you

22:36

know wins at all three levels. Great route

22:38

runner, nice separator, pretty like a

22:40

solid tackle breaker after the catch, and obviously

22:42

someone you could throw to in contest the situations

22:44

like, hey, hey, you funnel thirty percent of your

22:47

offense to this guy and you never think twice about it.

22:49

I do think at his peak, Rome could be that guy.

22:51

Here's a comp from Daniel Jeremiah.

22:53

He sees Lary Fitzgerald as a comp

22:55

coming out of college, which is obviously

22:57

high praise too. That's a Hall of Fame re mark.

22:59

Yeah.

23:00

I was just gonna say watching him, the

23:02

contested catches stand out. I feel like he had

23:04

defenders in his bee hive and he'd come down with

23:06

the ball. But also a lot of it is with these college

23:08

guys, like you've got these quarterbacks like paired

23:10

with Michael Pennix Junior, I felt like they had like

23:12

ten thousand catches or accombinations

23:15

that were like forty yards downfield

23:17

where it just was like he could

23:19

do no wrong, and like, I'm with you. I came away just

23:22

kind of in love with this guy. So I love what you said

23:24

that.

23:25

Yeah, there's so many you mentioned the extraceiver

23:27

even even the ones further on and we'll get to them.

23:29

It seems like in compared to the

23:31

last couple of classes, there's like six seven

23:33

guys that you could see as number ones. The

23:36

thing I was worried about going into it, and you

23:38

can tell me how the reception perception worked

23:40

out for Roma Dunes. He was like, whenever the

23:42

first thing you hear is contested catch guy that's

23:44

been a bit almost been in like a red flag for players

23:47

in the last handful of years. Drake London's a bit of an exception.

23:50

I think he's kind of made his style of

23:52

play work in the NFL and he's gotten better.

23:54

But you're seeing a Donze maybe a little more

23:57

subtle with his route running, a little

23:59

more versatile than maybe

24:01

just positioning him. And he's kind

24:03

of turned into wide receiver three. We'll see if the NFL

24:06

agrees with that or not. But he's

24:08

kind of landed as a

24:10

three. Even though at the beginning

24:12

of the process, guys like Jeremiah maybe had him

24:14

as high or higher than Harrison or Neighbors.

24:17

It doesn't feel like a lot of people believe

24:20

he's gonna go ahead of them. You seem

24:22

to think he's a little more versatile, though,

24:24

and you would put him ahead of him, would you.

24:26

I had a long kind

24:29

of internal debate with myself, you

24:31

know, my war room up here, me and the two

24:33

dogs. We had a long internal debate of like

24:35

who was the wide receiver one in this class? Which to me,

24:37

I think I was close to making

24:40

it Rome I eventually maybe just broke

24:42

a few ties in favor of Marvin Harrison. But Rome

24:44

is the second guy to me, and Malik Neighbors is

24:46

a third guy. Now, my mission statement with this draft class,

24:49

these top three guys in particular, like, these

24:51

guys are all so close, they're all great prospects.

24:54

To me, they're all tier one prospects on my stacked

24:56

board for the last four classes. So like, you

24:58

like this guy with this guy that's with me, you want

25:01

to take this trait over that trade also fine

25:03

with me. It's kind of reminiscent.

25:05

You brought up Drake London. To me, this is reminiscent

25:07

a little bit to that draft class where like

25:09

you could put Drake number one, you could have put Garrett Wilson

25:11

number one, You could have put Chris Alave number one,

25:14

and I would have been fine with that. Ultimately I

25:16

went with that year kind of the route running craft

25:18

guy which was Chris Olave and then you

25:20

know, then Drake London, then Garrett

25:22

Wilson. To me, I think I'd probably flip that up

25:24

now that they're in the NFL. But I see

25:27

this group as very similar to that.

25:28

It could.

25:28

It kind of depends what type of player and what number

25:31

one receiver you value in terms of

25:33

a traits perspective. But yeah, like on the

25:35

separation part of it, it was a very similar

25:38

exercise with with Drake London where you actually

25:40

had to watch him on film

25:42

and see the routes developed to like,

25:44

no, this is a guy that is getting open early

25:47

in the routes and maybe gets thrown into some of

25:49

these contested situations. Like Terry

25:51

mclaurin's always kind of high in the NFL in terms of

25:53

percentage of contested targets. But I don't find

25:55

any issues with his separation. I think he's just

25:58

played with some erratic quarterback playing. And Michael

26:00

Pennix is a good quarterback, but he is a little bit of an

26:02

erratic passer down the field as well.

26:05

All Right, I'll throw it out you and look,

26:08

rum could have been the answer to this, but now you're

26:10

gonna have to pick someone else.

26:11

All Right.

26:12

The wide receiver in this class that would have been

26:14

a number one would have been the number one receiver

26:17

in last year's class.

26:19

Yeah, you could go with any of the top three guys.

26:21

I think you could honestly make an argument that

26:24

even like Brian Thomas and JSN kind

26:26

of have similar grades in terms of last year's draft

26:28

class. But I'll say Malik Neighbors as

26:30

the obvious guy here. Another

26:32

one that to me is my wide receiver three,

26:35

but easily with a bullet would have had

26:37

like a tier break between him and any of the players

26:39

last year. Neighbors is very

26:41

fun. He's he's like an easy player to love because

26:44

I think it takes like three plays to see, oh, this guy's

26:46

different from an explosiveness standpoint.

26:49

Like I mentioned that twenty two class, I'll bring it up

26:51

here again that he's kind of the Garrett Wilson of that draft

26:53

class to me, where he's a little bit of like a wild

26:56

horse route runner. He's not the most refined

26:58

player, but he's so explos with

27:00

the ball in his hands. And if he just continues

27:02

to develop, you have a lot of confidence,

27:04

just like I think Garret Wilson has developed into a true

27:06

number one at the NFL level. I think neighbors

27:08

could do that too.

27:09

One thing noticing watching him is like I love

27:11

the seeing the body language of

27:14

the poor individual that's forced to

27:16

try to cover him, because it's the kind of

27:18

like the way that you watch a sprinter at the end of a race

27:20

where he's bending his upper

27:23

body forward to try to hit the tape first, and

27:25

these cornerbacks like are losing control of

27:27

their bodies and like he's catching past us

27:29

nine or ten yards ahead of them, And I just think

27:31

he's like the kind of guy that could like break someone's spirit

27:34

by the end of the first quarter in the NFL.

27:37

He seems so reliable but like so flashy

27:40

at the same time. I mean it maybe it is

27:42

the LSU thing and I'm just a simpleton, but he

27:44

really did kind of remind me of Odell or

27:47

like or like a little bigger

27:49

Steve Steve Smith type, where he's just got

27:51

such a natural feel as

27:54

a runner and he has great hands. So I hear you

27:56

that, Like maybe he's a little rougher around the edges running

27:58

routes or something, but he just seems very easy

28:01

to project in like any of these

28:03

systems that like, he doesn't need to even

28:06

get any better to just like immediately

28:08

just put a thousand yards plus up

28:10

there.

28:11

The only thing with him that's different from these

28:13

top two receivers is he does play out

28:15

of the slot the most, which I mean, who cares,

28:17

it's not that big of a deal, but fifty point three percent

28:19

of his sampled snaps in reception perception

28:21

came from the slot. He was more of like a split

28:24

between on the ball or off the ball.

28:26

But that's totally fine, Like you can funnel your offense

28:28

through that player. But it's similar to

28:30

kind of DJ Moore coming out of the NFL Draft,

28:33

where the guy but kind of like a two

28:35

X version of that type of player where he was

28:37

rough around the edges from a route running perspective,

28:39

but he was explosive and you could see

28:41

that he was going to develop that in the league. That's

28:43

why I'm not, like, I'm not docking

28:46

him out of my first tier of prospects because he's

28:48

just the least refined of these three players.

28:50

He's also like not even twenty one yet. I don't think

28:52

he turns twenty one until after he's

28:55

drafted. So he's a guy that you do feel pretty

28:57

good about that growth. But like you said, Greg, his

28:59

explosive and his ability to break tackles,

29:01

which in my opinion is easily the best

29:03

in this class, and I think it's actually the best of like

29:05

the last three classes. His ability to make plays

29:07

in the open field like that

29:10

gives you like a floor for any if you're

29:12

a team like the Giants, which I know it's weird with the Giants

29:14

because they a lot of

29:16

things are weird with the Giants, but they don't have they have a

29:18

lot of like these slot guys, right, like

29:20

guys who've played mostly inside,

29:22

and Neighbors is a mostly inside guy at LSU,

29:25

but it feels like

29:27

they need someone to just say to Danny Dimes

29:29

or maybe Drew Locke at some point, like this

29:31

is your first read, he's gonna run a crossing

29:34

route or a dig route something like that. You just get the

29:36

ball to him and worry about the rest later.

29:38

It feels like a good way to start to kind of build a foundation

29:41

on your offense.

29:41

That's the Jets offense with Garret Wilson the last

29:43

two years basically.

29:44

Yes, yeah, correct, which is

29:47

why I kind of see those two guys similarly.

29:50

All Right, here's one for you. I'm not Marvin

29:52

Harrison, Junior, Malik Neighbors or Roma Denze,

29:55

but I have the best chance to put up number

29:57

one type numbers as a rookie.

30:01

If we're just talking numbers depending

30:04

on depending on where

30:06

he's drafted. I kind

30:09

of think it's got to be Brian Thomas, who's

30:11

the consensus wide receiver for He's my wide

30:13

receiver for in this draft class. I don't know if

30:16

he has he definitely has

30:18

the ceiling of a number one, but I think he

30:20

probably projects best as like a high end number

30:22

two. He only runs like three

30:24

routes. I mean, in his reception perception sample,

30:26

sixty seven percent of his routes were a slant,

30:29

a curl, or a go route.

30:31

And that's it. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean it can't

30:34

learn it.

30:34

How can we kind of learn that with wide receivers

30:37

in these weird systems that they can learn it when they

30:39

get there.

30:39

I was just gonna say, like, and you, But at the

30:42

same time, his success rate on

30:44

a wide variety of other routes is really high.

30:46

Like, I think he does show the skills to expand

30:49

that route tree, but it gives you kind of

30:51

like if you look back at DK Metcalf's rookie season,

30:53

sixty seven percent of the routes that he

30:55

ran as a rookie was a slant, a

30:57

curl, or a go route. And so I think

30:59

that sort of development plan for Brian Thomas.

31:02

But if he lands with the right offense, like

31:04

I think about the Colts at fifteen, make a lot of

31:06

sense. Like you have a guy in

31:08

Michael Pittman that you're gonna throw the ball to a ton in the

31:10

short to intermediate area, and then you have

31:12

Brian Thomas just kind of ripping you on the routes

31:14

that you wanted Alec Pierce to win on. That

31:17

makes a lot of sense to me just from a pure numbers

31:19

perspective. I think he can put up like number one numbers

31:21

and then maybe eventually grow into that player.

31:24

He's the guy I was hoping you would

31:26

say for the last one, because I don't

31:28

have many draft takes where I'm

31:30

personally like a like a student

31:33

who is just studying for the test at the very

31:35

last minute and then like is over confident

31:37

going into it. But my one over confident

31:39

take is like, you can't take Brian Thomas Junior

31:41

too high if I didn't know anything about it,

31:43

I'm just sort of basic. If I didn't know anything

31:46

about where these guys were, and you just watch

31:49

Brian Thomas's six games, You're like, wait,

31:51

why is he not at top five?

31:52

Pick? Why is he not at like cause his

31:55

stop.

31:55

And start and his ability to

31:57

move so smoothly at that size

32:01

is just insane, Like it's just

32:03

as insane. I kind of see

32:05

his ceiling like in a perfect world where it all

32:07

went well, is like just as high

32:09

as those other guys. And I get it, Like he used to be a

32:12

basketball player. He ran a limited amount

32:14

of routes that you know, some of these deep threats

32:16

from the SEC, like like Jmo having

32:19

totally worked out, but a guy that

32:21

huge, that can run like that, that can stop

32:23

like that, Like he looked like Nico Collins to

32:25

me, looks now and

32:28

Nico Collins is great now. And I was like, if he

32:30

looks that good now and he's this age, and like his

32:32

testing is off the charts,

32:34

like he could be Nico Collins plus plus,

32:36

which is which is like a top ten receiver.

32:39

So like I I wouldn't be shocked if,

32:41

like if the Falcons or

32:43

one of those teams takes him in the top ten

32:45

just because of the way he looks. If a Dunze goes

32:48

early, like I don't see why he wouldn't

32:50

go against ahead of some of these defensive

32:52

players or tackles too.

32:54

But maybe I'm stupid.

32:55

You're not stupid, Greg, But I think the good the

32:57

good things Thomas. The

33:00

good thing with Brian Thomas is you also saw him

33:03

get better throughout the year, right, Like I

33:05

think a lot of analytic models will

33:07

ding him because he only has this one big year

33:09

of production. But that

33:11

production number one was earned and

33:14

number two, like you saw him on film, get

33:16

better, like the September routes

33:18

are not as good as the December routes.

33:20

Like the later games, He's getting better and better. He's

33:22

already making that development, that projection that

33:24

you kind of want him to make. And I

33:26

just love the idea of him across

33:28

from a competent number one, so that Atlanta spot

33:31

makes a lot of sense to where you're getting the most

33:33

out of him. And then you know Drake London's or Michael

33:35

Pittman from the example that I gave earlier.

33:37

All Right, everybody, let's stop down for one minute. We'll

33:39

take a break, and then we'll continue on with

33:41

Matt Harmon. All right,

33:43

we're back. So along those similar lines

33:46

to Mark's questions, so we've now hit on the mount

33:48

rushmore here if you will,

33:50

of prospects at this position.

33:53

Let's talk superlative for sleeper stud

33:55

So who's flying under the radar here a bit as

33:58

a twenty twenty four. I'm not saying super or

34:00

number one wide receiver, but a guy that steps

34:02

in and is an immediate difference maker,

34:04

like a Nico Collins, and then he develops and turns

34:07

into a star, like, who is the difference

34:09

maker that people aren't talking about.

34:12

I really like Ricky Piersaw is kind

34:14

of my favorite guy that's in a few

34:16

tiers down fun player.

34:19

I think he's a really good route runner. To me, he

34:21

seems like a guy that's just going to be a quarterback's best

34:23

friend very early on, because he's really good on

34:26

like slant routes and flat routes and these sort of

34:28

just routes around the line of scrimmage. But

34:30

he's got legit juice down the field. He's

34:32

a guy that you see on film play all three positions,

34:35

so you see him a little bit at X. I think his most

34:37

likely home in the NFL is going to be as

34:39

a flanker slot, like a guy that moves between those two

34:41

positions, someone that I think has

34:44

that sort of floor that you're talking about early on

34:46

Dan where he just gets open against

34:48

man's own coverage. It's a little more average

34:50

around press, but again there are ways to hide

34:52

that. You get him working around the line of scrimmage.

34:54

He's a quarterbacks best friend. He's always at the right landmarks.

34:56

He's always at the right place in terms of where you want

34:59

him from a route running perspective, but I

35:01

do see the upside for him to develop into like one

35:03

hundred and twenty type of target player in

35:05

year two, year three.

35:07

I think that there's a chance that he goes

35:09

higher than people think, just because he checks a

35:11

lot of like athletic measurements as well

35:13

that you really want to see. So he's been a guy that outside

35:16

of the first couple tiers of this class, that I've really

35:18

gravitated to from.

35:19

I don't know, a.

35:20

Sleeper perspective, because more people are talking about

35:22

him now than they were at the beginning of the process, but definitely

35:25

a player.

35:25

I like.

35:26

It's the draft process. Everyone talks about everyone.

35:28

It's un right. I'm almost disappointed though, that he

35:31

was your answer, because he's really one of only

35:33

two options for my

35:35

next category, which is just white

35:39

guy that Mark is going to fall in love with.

35:42

There's really only two guys, probably

35:45

towards the top of the draft unless.

35:47

I yeah, mcgreg it's the other guys,

35:49

so you set the table. Well, oh okay, I'm

35:51

just well, it's up to Matt though to guess.

35:53

There's no way the guy isn't Ladd McConkie.

35:56

I mean, there's just no way.

35:57

Gotta be. It's gotta be.

35:59

But the the great But of course, but the best

36:01

part about Lad McConkie.

36:03

Somewhere Zack Zenner just got like a shiver

36:05

and he's like someone is thinking

36:07

of me.

36:08

Wasn't Zach Center was in the news for something recently,

36:10

like in.

36:11

Two thousand and six during the preseason.

36:13

Maybe now, I swear

36:15

to god I saw something about like he went back to school or

36:17

started a business or something. Yeah, I'll

36:20

deep dive that for you, Mark and send you the article

36:23

after the show. But yeah, Lad McConkie,

36:25

the great part about him is that he's not just your typical

36:27

like lunch pale, gritty, white

36:30

slot receiver. The guy legitimately

36:33

wins on deep routes and like actually, in

36:35

terms of reception perception, the game sampled

36:37

here he was more of an outside receiver.

36:39

You saw him play a lot more. Now he does struggle

36:42

against press coverage. He does struggle against

36:44

in like contesta situations. But again,

36:46

those are things you can get around from like a

36:48

deployment perspective. You can move him inside.

36:50

You can also move him off the ball, like so many

36:52

of these receivers now I think are going to have their worlds

36:55

opened up by how much motion is going

36:57

on in the NFL right now, especially these like full

36:59

speed motion that a lot of smart coaching staffs

37:01

are using. So McConkey could be a

37:03

guy there, But I think he runs the best

37:05

out routes in the class. Like just pure I'm selling

37:07

vertical routes and then I break to the outside.

37:10

That's Lad maconkey. To me, his success rate on out

37:12

routes is among the best in the class. It's among the best

37:15

of the last few years. So when I was trying to think

37:17

of like a cop for him and go beyond

37:19

the gritty white slot receiver cop, because

37:21

I don't really think that's how he he plays. I

37:23

like went into the RP database and looked like who has

37:25

some of the best out routes since twenty fourteen,

37:28

and Tyler Lockett popped up as like a comparison

37:30

player, And I think that's sort of the kind of the bucket that

37:32

Lad fits into. If he can play inside,

37:34

he can also play outside, and he's more of a speed

37:37

based slot receiver when you do line him up.

37:38

There, I've got one for you,

37:41

Like if you Matt Harmon had to write like a Shakespearean

37:44

sonnet to you know, not one

37:46

of the stars that we've talked about, but like a

37:48

girl next door type of wide receiver. That's a

37:50

weird way to put it, but just like a little under the radar,

37:52

like who would you pen the sonnet too?

37:54

And of your affections?

37:56

Uh pearsall would have been an option,

37:59

but you know, I'm intimidated by the leg tattoo,

38:02

So I'll go with Malik Washington, who actually

38:04

went to school in Charlottesville, nearer where I live now

38:06

in Virginia Beach. Guys, just like a fun player

38:09

I don't know what the ceiling is for, you

38:11

know, a smaller receiver like this that really only

38:13

has like one year of major production. But I

38:16

mean he's got fantastic hands. He breaks

38:18

a ton of tackles, like he plays bigger than his

38:20

size. So if I was writing kind of that sonnet

38:23

to a player, I definitely think i'd

38:25

pick Malik Washington as kind of the deeper sleeper.

38:27

Here it shows how hard that this class

38:30

is crazy, because it

38:32

feels like, you

38:34

know, six receivers could go in the first round or

38:36

something, but it almost feels like there's

38:38

like nine or ten guys who could be fire.

38:41

There's like five or six guys who could

38:43

be that fifth or six, and there's not really a

38:45

consensus who it's gonna be, And then that means

38:48

there could be like ten to thirteen

38:50

in the second through two rounds, Like Malik Washington

38:52

is not a name I've even heard, as probably in

38:54

the first three rounds, there's like fifteen

38:57

to seventeen guys, and it really seems like there's a lot

38:59

of disagreement where there could be ten

39:01

to twelve guys that could go anywhere

39:04

from like pick twenty five to pick

39:06

seventy five, which is

39:09

just crazy in terms of what flavor. Like if

39:11

you're running a team, which guy

39:13

who's athletic do you not really trust?

39:16

Like an awesome athlete that maybe is in that bucket

39:19

of like he could go pretty high, but

39:22

that you're not really feeling.

39:24

I haven't really had that well,

39:27

I don't really have any like true full field athlete.

39:29

I do think that the Xavier

39:31

worthy for two to one, the speed part of it,

39:34

if that if that pushes him up in the first

39:36

round, that's gonna make me just a little bit nervous.

39:39

I think he's much better at doing like real wide

39:41

receiver things than some of these other kind of smaller

39:44

speed based receivers. But he's

39:47

just not good at contest the situations. He's a

39:49

guy that's gonna have to kind of be used in one of these specialized

39:51

roles where he's full speed motion at the

39:53

snap. That that's definitely great, Like teams

39:56

want viable target earners

39:58

in that position now, so I

40:01

can see the vision there depending on the coaching

40:03

staff. But there are just a lot of other receivers

40:06

that I prefer in terms of that can give you

40:08

like high volume perspective, like high

40:10

volume type of season. So he's

40:12

one that if you went in the first round, I'd be a little nervous.

40:15

If you went in the second round, I'm like, all right, I see

40:17

where your.

40:17

Vision is there.

40:18

To that point, I'm totally with you. Player

40:21

like that with that skill set and that flash

40:24

you got, where he ends up is so important

40:27

and what coaching staff and what the surrounding

40:29

talent is you kind of you have to have a

40:32

a scheme that knows how to use a

40:34

player like that.

40:35

You kind of hit on a

40:38

question greg I had.

40:40

I was asking kind of who to you might be

40:42

more LaQuan treadwill Well

40:44

then justin Jefferson. So a

40:46

guy that is so there is there a guy

40:48

to you out there other than other

40:52

than four two one that jumps

40:54

out to you as someone that you think is like, oh, if

40:56

I were running a team, I'm staying away or

40:58

are you just like this clay Where there

41:01

aren't.

41:01

A lot of red flags out there.

41:02

There's not a lot of red flags in terms of the early

41:05

guys. Because I know some people don't like Adie

41:07

Mitchell, the other receiver from Texas. I actually

41:10

like him better than Xavier Worthy, just because

41:12

I think you see him do like real NFL X

41:14

receiver things, and he's definitely

41:16

a volatile prospect, but I can understand chasing

41:18

the upside there. The guy that I've been kind

41:20

of like back and forth on where my

41:23

feeling on him to changes depending on

41:25

the game that I chart is Xavier Legette, who

41:28

some people do have as a late first round pick. To

41:30

me, that's definitely pretty

41:32

rich despite the fact that he's got great

41:35

tackle breaking ability and he shows an ability to

41:37

get open on certain routes

41:40

at that size, it's very impressive to see

41:42

him working out there. But at the same time, I do

41:44

think he is a developmental player

41:46

that might take a few years, and even

41:49

like that type of average

41:51

separator is typically like it

41:53

matters even more where he ends up because

41:55

you've got to find the right quarterback to

41:58

to sort of see that, like sort of see that vision

42:00

if he's gonna be an outside player, which I do think

42:02

is gonna be the case. Like I look at another guy, Keon

42:04

Coleman, who's not a separator, but if

42:07

you look at his reception perception profile, I won't bore

42:09

you guys with like the very hardcore percentile

42:12

stats.

42:12

With this, get dirty, get dirty with the numbers.

42:16

There's another say there's another drop. But

42:19

like over the over the last few draft classes I've charted,

42:21

there's a handful of players that have been below

42:24

the thirty fifth percentile and success rate versus

42:26

man zone and press coverage or

42:28

at least two of the three. Almost

42:31

all of them have been total flameouts except

42:33

five guys, and they've all become

42:35

like big slot receivers like Rashi Rice was

42:37

an outside receiver who didn't really

42:39

get open. He moved inside in the NFL

42:42

found career success in year one. I'm

42:44

on ross Saint Brown. He was good against zone coverage, but

42:46

wasn't really great against man and press coverage as

42:48

an outside receiver at USC, moves in the slot,

42:51

has a great season, has a great career, obviously.

42:53

Jujus Smith Schuster another one struggled

42:55

beaten man press coverage outside as

42:57

a collegiate player, was a big slot receiver

42:59

in his good year with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Like I see

43:01

that vision with Keon Coleman, where he's

43:03

a guy that is below that thirty fifth percentile

43:05

mark and man and press coverage, but it's a

43:07

pretty solid zone beater, and he's pretty good on these

43:10

routes like dig routes and slant routes, and

43:12

so if the right team takes him,

43:14

you know that has a coaching stat like the Chiefs

43:16

they take Rashid Rice. I talked to Rashid

43:19

Rice at the Super Bowl kind of asked him, like when did the vision

43:21

of you becoming this receiver, like a

43:23

big slot receiver sort of when

43:25

did that materialize? And he said it was right after he was

43:27

drafted, and like Brett Veach talked about in the post draft presser,

43:30

they saw him as like a juju kind of replacement

43:32

for them, which was weird. To me because he was mostly

43:34

a pure outside receiver in college.

43:37

So the right team takes Keon Coleman has

43:39

that vision for him. I can see that working

43:41

out with Lagett because he's

43:43

a ball winner and like he

43:45

theoretically is more of an like

43:48

a straight line athlete. In my opinion, I

43:50

think he has to be an outside receiver and in that case is

43:53

going to take kind of the right team to really maximize

43:55

that skill set.

43:57

He looks like the freakiest maybe of any

43:59

of these.

44:01

It's a little worrisome that you're like a fifth year senior

44:03

that you know, for various reasons, didn't have production

44:06

before you were twenty three, playing against

44:08

some nineteen year olds.

44:10

But if you just like, look at this man

44:12

running down.

44:13

The field, he's a total

44:15

He looks like DK Metcalf or A J.

44:17

Brown.

44:18

So some team has got to fall in love with

44:20

that at some point and just try to make it

44:22

work.

44:22

And don't forget greg that Tommy

44:25

Callahan, son

44:27

of Big Tom Callahan, after

44:29

a rough start on the road with his

44:32

colleague, ended up making Callahan's

44:34

break pads hugely successful

44:37

in Tommy Boy. So just because

44:39

you might he was an eighth year senior as

44:42

I recall, and Tommy did

44:44

just fine in the end.

44:45

A trenching point in nice thanks, nicely.

44:47

Done, thank you, last thing before we let you

44:50

go. Macaus, I know you're busy. Whither

44:52

rock Bowers M. I

44:55

don't chart tight ends. Man, No,

44:57

I love I love it.

44:59

I love the man that was last year.

45:01

Last year was a for The

45:04

man has a code respect

45:07

code methodology.

45:09

It is.

45:10

It is a serious code. Because

45:13

the Kyle Pitts bros. Have been, you know, banging on

45:16

my door for years now about like where's our

45:18

Kyle Pits reception perception chart?

45:20

And I have two reasons why I only

45:22

stick to the wide receiver position. One is

45:24

kind of the the statistical

45:27

reason that I've been doing reception perception

45:29

now in these wide receivers for ten plus years.

45:31

Like you know, I've been working on this for

45:33

a long time. I have a very understanding of what

45:35

the data show, very good understanding what the data shows

45:37

us, right like you did you score this against man coverage?

45:40

I understand where your position should be. I should understand like

45:42

what thresholds are that all that type of stuff.

45:44

To start a whole new database with tight ends,

45:47

we're starting from square one. The second reason

45:50

is can if I can work blue

45:52

on this show? I got enough show on my plate. Okay, like

45:54

I got I got enough wide receivers on

45:56

my plate. Right we're talking about there's you mentioned

45:59

Greg, there's gonna be eyes that come off the board in the

46:01

third round that I'm not gonna have a route chart for. And

46:03

it's gonna it's gonna make me nervous, it gonna make me feel

46:05

weird.

46:05

Man.

46:05

Let's be fair, though.

46:07

We began this conversation with you saying, James

46:10

Co your partner with reception perception,

46:12

who, by the way, is one of the great showmen and hosts.

46:14

But he wants to bite at the apple and he wants to start

46:16

studying. He wants to start charting. Give

46:18

him tight ends, throw him that bone. Let's

46:20

expand the property.

46:22

I would love to James, this

46:24

is your call. Step up to the plate, buddy, contribute

46:27

contribute to the to the charting here. I mean, listen,

46:30

this is what we did with Derek Lassen, who does great

46:32

work on quarterbacks. I

46:35

was like, hey, Derek is a free agent

46:37

not working for football outsiders anymore. Let's

46:40

get him to chart quarterbacks for reception perception.

46:42

Dot com and that's what he does now, So aspiring

46:46

tight end whisper out there. Yea,

46:48

this is this is your call. Come come chart

46:50

tight ends for reception perception and

46:52

that's how we'll get it done.

46:53

Yeah, I just I don't think.

46:54

I don't think like tight end perception is gonna work

46:56

well on certain corners

46:58

of the Internet. But that's okay, inside of your

47:01

your great.

47:03

I was gonna sat but that's

47:05

a little, a little backdoor entry to

47:07

get into the data.

47:08

Nailed it.

47:09

Matt Harmon at Matt Harmon underscore

47:11

b y B on Twitter. Sorry

47:14

Mark X. Also check him

47:16

out on Yahoo and of course reception Perception

47:18

dot com which has everything

47:21

in the wider wide receiver realm.

47:23

And if we're lucky, tight ends very

47:25

soon. Matt, you're the best buddy.

47:28

Appreciate you boys for having me.

47:29

Yeah, this is awesome.

47:30

And can't wait to see where these guys actually get drafted

47:32

and then we can have a real conversation about it.

47:34

I can't wait, Thank God.

47:40

All right, let's take a break and

47:42

when we got back, we'll put a button on

47:44

this.

47:44

One welcome

47:52

back.

47:52

And uh yeah, I gotta get me

47:54

myself a mythology.

47:57

I mean, that's that does

47:59

we didn't if we had to have a mythology.

48:02

I think you're talking about like a methodology. You've

48:04

created quite a mythology of oh, mythology.

48:07

Yeah, methodology is I think methodology.

48:10

Methodology, mythology, mythology,

48:15

that's what you got.

48:16

You've got that down. I

48:18

think the methodology part of it. I'm

48:20

just letting you know. I think you're

48:22

you've got a lot going on too. Just like Matt was saying,

48:24

like it would probably take about one hundred

48:26

plus hours a week to create some

48:28

sort of rival site to this, and you starting

48:31

it back in twenty thirteen would have been a

48:33

wise move.

48:34

Are you ready to take that on now?

48:36

Well?

48:36

Just like how does one come

48:38

up with a methodology? Like?

48:40

How does one like? How does

48:42

that originate within one's own brain?

48:45

That that, to me is something that

48:48

I aspire to have

48:50

an idea come into my mind that makes me think,

48:52

not only is this an interesting idea, this

48:55

might be a methodology.

48:57

I mean, this

48:59

is not the way you use the word methodology.

49:01

You have done that, Dan, like that, this is that

49:03

podcast the way you create

49:06

different episodes of the shows and

49:09

heighten certain characteristics from other

49:11

people and that.

49:13

Actually, that is your methodology. That's very nice.

49:15

That is the correct usage.

49:16

But that's not what I'm thinking of.

49:18

I want something like Matt has, where people

49:20

come off like, whoa, that guy is smart,

49:23

that guy has his own methodology. Yeah,

49:25

I mean listening to ATM and be

49:27

like, well, Dan really nailed his methodology

49:29

this week.

49:30

But part of your mythology is this like state

49:32

mandated mythology lagged hardcore.

49:35

Yeah, you know.

49:36

Part of your mythology, though, is the

49:38

fact that you're notoriously ill at

49:40

math, that you don't have any skills at math, so you

49:42

can't market you don't have to reverse market

49:44

that.

49:45

Let's that's true.

49:46

Okay, Let's let's talk about Zach Xaner, real quick,

49:48

undrafted rookie out of South Dakota State

49:50

mark the preseason rushing

49:53

leader in two thousand

49:55

and sixteen when

49:59

he rush for a buck eighty

50:01

three on thirty five totes five point

50:03

two yards per Carrie. I didn't

50:05

really translate, and Zach

50:08

is obviously long gone from the league,

50:10

but he is active

50:13

on social media. I just came across

50:15

this late in our conversation with Maddie.

50:17

Here it is Zach Xenner thirty one follow

50:20

him. When someone tells me I don't

50:22

have time, I think they don't have a strategy.

50:25

I had twenty five minutes to eat lunch and shower

50:28

and no prepped food parentheticals.

50:31

Yesterday, put two salmon filets in

50:33

the airfire, showered, then ate

50:35

it with some veggies and supplements. Still

50:37

made my two PM Part two.

50:41

Was it my best meal?

50:42

No?

50:43

But I got my protein in and the nutrients

50:45

came from unprocessed whole food sources.

50:47

The key was that I had a plan in case I

50:49

didn't have time to prepare my typical lunch. Strategies

50:52

and plans are crucial for any goal, especially

50:54

healthy and wellness. There

50:56

you go, so Zaxy on the path to He's

50:59

got his own methodology around

51:02

health, fitness and wellness. So he's on that

51:04

path in life.

51:05

I think, I if you, if you look back at it, I

51:07

I from a certain angle.

51:09

I properly scouted him. Which

51:12

angle would that be exactly?

51:14

I mean, we're ten years later and he couldn't

51:16

be more successful. He's writing long mantras about

51:18

air fryars and showering. Yeah, and

51:20

he's got more almost four thousand

51:22

views on that first tweet.

51:24

I'm sure he's a blast at parties. He

51:27

was in the news recently as as Matt said

51:29

that he's taken his mcat and

51:32

he actually has a nutrition company, so it all

51:34

it all, and he wants to be an agent.

51:36

So he's got a lot, a lot of things

51:38

going on, and you know, now

51:41

we've got some some white

51:43

receivers to fill his his place. I was

51:45

surprised he went Pearsall there too, by the way,

51:47

because Pearsall was a guy didn't didn't

51:49

get me going watching him because those guys, it's

51:52

a it's kind of a cliche to

51:54

say that the white guys fit better in the

51:56

slot and they tested

51:59

out out of the him.

52:00

There's got a better way to put that, well,

52:02

but it's true.

52:03

What do you mean, Well, it's

52:05

like a big cliche that you put the white guys

52:07

in the slot. There's there's not many white outside receivers

52:10

for a long time, and these guys have crazy athletic

52:12

scores. But Pierce All really is a slot

52:14

guy, and that kind of limits I think

52:16

where we would go. And McConkey, he mentioned

52:19

like was not beating outside press

52:21

coverage, Like it was not the type of receiver

52:23

that you would normally see go on, but he snaps,

52:26

he moves well like in some team is gonna

52:28

fall.

52:28

Don't you think Maconky is like pretty fun

52:30

to watch? I mean I spent like, yeah, I didn't spin out.

52:34

I can see working giant.

52:38

What got me?

52:38

That's what put me in the doorway because I was like, is he related

52:41

to film a Coonkye?

52:42

And no, there's no no relation. The

52:46

internet.

52:46

I guess if you, I mean, if you

52:48

know, if you if you dug deep into the family

52:50

tree, you know, I'm sure there is.

52:52

But it's not like his son or something big

52:54

fun.

52:55

Can you dig deep into the Maconkie

52:57

family tree and see if the four

53:00

I'm a New York Giants wide receiver teammate

53:02

of Sean Landena, I believe Mark who

53:04

had a circus catch in Super Bowl twenty

53:07

one against the Denver Broncos, if

53:09

he is related in any way to

53:11

the highly lauded

53:14

draft prospect Ladd McConkie,

53:17

Ladd la double d mconkie,

53:21

thank you anything else?

53:23

Boys, that's

53:25

fun.

53:27

It's such a crazy draft

53:29

that there's guys like

53:31

like Troy Franklin. He's got an outside chance

53:34

to get drafted in the first round. Like we didn't even mention

53:36

Harrison or whatever. There's just it's

53:38

almost hard to like figure out which one is

53:41

which guy here, Like Texas,

53:43

for instance, has two we mentioned that could both go

53:45

in the first round in Worthy and

53:48

Ady Mitchell.

53:48

There's just like guy upon guy upon guy.

53:51

And that's good.

53:52

Because as we talked about, there's like a million

53:54

teams that have needs at the position.

53:55

And you're right, it feels almost strange not to

53:58

dig in on Marvin Harrison Junior and this

54:00

episode, the one with the wide receivers.

54:02

But I will say this, he is number

54:04

two on Daniel Jeremiah's top fifty

54:07

twenty twenty four NFL prospects that he

54:09

just put out, and I don't agree with the decision, but

54:12

I don't have full control of things,

54:14

Like we will have Jeremiah on the show next

54:16

week, and let's dig in on Harrison when

54:19

he is with us. One last

54:21

thought, because we have so many

54:25

potentially high end

54:28

wide receivers or certainly at the very least

54:30

sought after wide receivers, and a

54:32

reminder that not everything works. And of

54:34

course Matt Harmon is going to

54:36

be tracking this on RP reception,

54:39

perception and a lot of these guys are gonna pop,

54:41

but sometimes it just doesn't translate.

54:43

I thought about with this many wide receivers

54:46

this position, it's probably if

54:48

you probably really do the dive, it's

54:50

probably not that out of the ordinary. It certainly

54:52

happens with the quarterback position for obvious reasons.

54:54

But teams can go on runs in

54:56

the first round. Two years come to mind, twenty

54:59

twenty three. Last year four straight wide

55:01

receivers. Seattle took JSN at twenty,

55:04

the Chargers took Quenton Johnson at

55:07

twenty one, Baltimore took Zay

55:09

Flowers at twenty two, and then Jordan Addison

55:11

went to the Vikings at twenty three. And then

55:13

I had mentioned the Lakwan Treadwell, who

55:17

did not work out from Minnesota. He

55:19

was part of another run in twenty sixteen when

55:21

Houston took Will Fuller at twenty one, Washington

55:24

took Josh Dockson at twenty two, and then

55:26

Treadwell twenty three. None of those guys really

55:29

made it well, Fuller almost did but then disappeared.

55:31

Strange, So

55:34

I wonder if we're going to get that, if we're going to get this

55:36

year another one where we get a run of three or even

55:38

four guys in a row.

55:39

I think we will.

55:40

But I think so we're going to get I still look

55:42

at I know it looks like the best class we've

55:44

ever had during our show, clearly,

55:47

but forty percent of them are

55:49

going to be on the same team three

55:52

years from now.

55:52

I believe it's different.

55:53

The receiver has hit well, Like you look

55:55

at that AJ Brown class and granted

55:58

those guys it was crazy because they went and the second

56:00

McLaurin was in the third they were all over the place.

56:04

A lot of the like it. To me, it's hit at a

56:06

higher level than other positions.

56:09

And the difference this year is like, I'm

56:11

pretty confident Brian Thomas would have gotten

56:13

drafted over all those receivers last year, and

56:15

he's four here, Like I think

56:18

he'll go top top twelve, top fifteen.

56:20

So it is a better class

56:22

than I think we've seen in the last few

56:25

Then there'll be some boomer Bus guys after that.

56:27

Well, and like a rookie wide receiver contract

56:29

is very valuable too. But I I I'm just

56:32

saying, I'm telling you let's let's let's

56:34

talk in four years and see where we are.

56:36

It's not all gonna be starters and number one dudes.

56:38

All Right, Mark, we get it, you know.

56:40

I mean I don't know because

56:43

I'm like I was like looking at but

56:45

we don't have to dwell on it well because you know, I

56:47

was looking at the draft class from just like three years

56:49

ago and I find it relatively

56:51

depressing, which one just

56:55

like in general, what's happened to tons of players

56:57

that we were squawking about?

56:58

And I'm not you know, I get it. I'm not trying to go down that path.

57:00

But it's like, oh, Mark, you

57:02

sent it called Sonova bitch.

57:05

I'm with you, though, but I think it's like, I

57:08

mean, I.

57:08

Said it first, but you know, we don't need to

57:10

hammer it home that these

57:13

guys play.

57:14

I'm tapping it, understand.

57:15

All right?

57:16

How about the twenty twenty two would be the closest

57:18

comp, but this one would probably be viewed as

57:20

better Garrett Wilson, Drake London, O

57:23

Love.

57:23

I mean those are all hits.

57:25

That, yeah, but I'm not talking about the first five guy, and

57:27

we're talking about like there's sixteen, like twenty

57:29

people. Like the comps for the bottom ten

57:31

are a lot of them are just

57:33

sort of normal wide receivers, so whatever, we'll

57:35

see Well, in half a decade,

57:38

I will be right.

57:39

Yes, we will circle back in exactly

57:41

half a decade. Finally, one bit

57:44

of update here, Big

57:46

Funk, who never shies

57:49

away from any challenge, including

57:51

incredible photoshop

57:53

work on the twenty twenty

57:55

four San Diego gray Beard's Media Guide.

57:58

He has a date. According

58:00

to Randy, this is a direct quote. There

58:03

is no reported relation between

58:06

eighties mconkie in twenty twenties

58:08

mconkie.

58:09

Well that was what Mark said.

58:10

That was reporting, right,

58:13

But we threw it to Randy,

58:15

so if you want it, if it makes it feel more official,

58:18

Randy is officially.

58:21

Going on record that there is no relation.

58:25

Well, I appreciate.

58:26

I appreciate Randy, but it doesn't feel any more

58:28

official to me because I went and researched it

58:30

like like this week myself.

58:31

But that's fine, Oh, Raby, this isn't good

58:33

out.

58:34

For you, Randy says, We'll take this, mister

58:36

Cinek. The mconkie name originates

58:38

from Irish.

58:39

Del Riata delta dan

58:42

Tarriata.

58:43

It's Gaelic, I guess, so while not direct,

58:45

there may be something somewhere down the line.

58:48

Well, sure, we're all related somewhere

58:51

down the line.

58:51

If you go far enough back, you know

58:53

what I think, that's that's a great way to the

58:55

end end the episode, greg that we are all,

58:59

we all bleed red, and we

59:01

might not all look the same, but

59:04

we are one, even if we are not the same.

59:11

Till Monday heat the b