0:00

What's up, 30 for 30 listeners? It's

0:02

Vanessa Ivy Rose. And today we're

0:04

bringing you episode five of our series,

0:07

Reclaimed, The Forgotten League.

0:09

If you've enjoyed it,

0:11

I hope you'll tell a friend about it and

0:13

follow the Reclaimed podcast

0:15

for more incredible stories like this one.

0:17

If you've missed any of these episodes,

0:20

you'll find them all right here in the 30 for 30

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feed, or you can click on

0:24

over to Reclaimed with the link in

0:27

our episode description to hear the

0:29

series in full. Today

0:34

I'm thinking a lot of things. I'm

0:37

thinking of my old playground. This is Ted

0:39

Williams, one of the greatest

0:41

hitters in baseball history.

0:44

It's July 25, 1966, and

0:48

he's thinking out loud on a stage. The

0:51

stage is in front of a red brick building

0:53

with white trim. To

0:56

his right, there's an American flag. And

0:59

in front of him, a sea of suits,

1:02

sunglasses, and the occasional

1:04

bouffant. The

1:06

crowd is here to celebrate Ted, and

1:09

for good reason. After

1:11

more than two decades with the Boston

1:13

Red Sox,

1:14

he's being inducted into the National

1:17

Baseball Hall of Fame. Dedicated

1:20

to baseball men of all generations,

1:22

and my purpose to join them.

1:27

Ted is known as the Splendid

1:30

Splinter, because he's a lean 6'3", and

1:32

because he hit the ball so hard, you

1:34

could imagine the bat splintering. Ted's

1:37

career stats speak for themselves.

1:40

A 3.44 batting average in 2021 walks.

1:46

He won six batting titles and was the

1:49

last player in the major leagues to hit 400

1:51

in the second. He was the first player in the major

1:53

leagues to hit 400 in the season. But

1:58

I would argue that his greatest contribution to baseball is his greatest contribution to baseball.

2:00

baseball isn't his career numbers.

2:03

It's what he says near the end of his speech.

2:06

I hope that someday the names of

2:08

the Central Page and Josh Gibson in

2:10

some way can be added as a symbol for

2:13

the great Negro players that are not here

2:15

only because they were not given a chance.

2:23

The Boston Red Sox might have been the last team

2:25

to integrate, but it was Ted,

2:28

one of their legends, who

2:29

was the first to mention a Negro leaguer in

2:31

his Hall of Fame speech.

2:34

And by the way, Ted Williams

2:36

was a huge fan of Central Page, had

2:39

been since he was a kid. Ted

2:43

ends his speech by saying how grateful he

2:45

is to have played the best game of them all,

2:48

but this thought,

2:49

that Negro League players should be given their place

2:52

among

2:52

the sports greatest, stuck

2:54

around long after he left the stage. In

2:57

fact, the thought still lingers

3:00

today.

3:00

Can baseball truly

3:02

be the best game of them all if

3:05

it won't acknowledge all of its best players?

3:16

From ABC Audio, this

3:18

is Reclaim, the Forgotten

3:21

League. I'm

3:23

Vanessa Ivy Rose. Episode 5,

3:28

The Hall.

3:34

Ted Williams gave that speech in Cooperstown,

3:37

a quiet village in upstate New York.

3:40

It sits between Albany and Syracuse, the

3:43

Adirondacks and the Catskills.

3:45

In some ways,

3:47

it feels like an in-between place,

3:49

somewhere you drive by on the way to your next destination.

3:54

But for millions of baseball fans,

3:56

Cooperstown is the destination.

3:59

because it's the home of the National Baseball

4:02

Hall of Fame. Now

4:05

when I say Hall of Fame,

4:08

I'm talking about two things. There's

4:11

the Hall of Fame, the list.

4:14

The Hallow Scroll of Baseball's Greatest.

4:18

Today, that list has 342 names belonging to

4:21

players, umpires, managers, and

4:23

executives. And

4:26

then there's the Hall of Fame,

4:27

the Museum.

4:29

It's the brick building on Main Street

4:32

that houses memorabilia from all generations

4:35

of baseball, like Lou Gehrig's

4:37

Yankee Stadium locker, Hank Aaron's

4:39

uniform from the day he broke Babe

4:42

Ruth's home run record, and

4:44

the Cubs 2016 World Series championship

4:47

ring. There's a

4:49

room, not quite a hall, where

4:52

bronze plaques of Hall of Famers are displayed

4:54

on the walls. It's

4:56

a gallery of baseball's greatest. The

5:01

Hall of Fame is a place, but

5:03

it's also an idea, and the

5:05

members of the Baseball Writers Association

5:08

of America get to decide who counts

5:11

as the greatest.

5:13

The organization was

5:14

formed in 1908 in

5:15

my hometown,

5:17

Detroit.

5:19

It started out as a group of sportswriters

5:21

lobbying for better working conditions

5:23

when covering major league games. These

5:27

days, the group is the voting

5:29

body behind baseball's top awards.

5:33

The idea of the Hall of Fame actually

5:35

came before the place. The

5:38

first class of inductees was selected in 1936,

5:40

before the

5:43

museum was built. You

5:45

may know some of them. Babe

5:47

Ruth,

5:48

Ty Cobb,

5:49

Walter Johnson.

5:51

They were at the inaugural induction ceremony,

5:54

held in 1939.

5:56

The

6:00

segregation of the National Baseball Museum

6:02

and the baseball... Kennesaw Mountain Landis,

6:05

who was commissioner at the time, spoke

6:07

at the ceremony. I should like to dedicate

6:10

this museum to all

6:12

America. All America.

6:15

Landis might have had a different idea of what that

6:18

meant back in 39,

6:20

when segregation was the standard and

6:22

the gentleman's agreement still ruled the game.

6:26

By the time Ted Williams joined the Hall of Fame

6:28

in 66, America

6:30

started to change and the Hall

6:33

of Fame had some catching up to

6:35

do. No player

6:37

who had made their name in the Negro Leagues was

6:40

a part of the Hall of Fame. And

6:42

that's partly due to a rural governing who could

6:44

even be considered for the honor. Players

6:48

were only eligible for the Hall of Fame if they played 10

6:50

years or more in the major leagues. Players

6:54

disqualified many Negro Leaguers who

6:56

were too old to play in the majors by the

6:58

time integration came around. And

7:03

I want you to keep integration in mind

7:07

because the path toward inducting Negro Leaguers

7:09

into the Hall of Fame was

7:11

a lot like the path toward integration. In

7:16

both cases, momentum was

7:18

built by black journalists who campaigned

7:20

for black players to be included. First

7:24

in the major leagues and now

7:26

in the Hall of Fame.

7:29

In both cases, a white man

7:31

called for change.

7:34

For integration, there was Branch

7:36

Rickey. For the Hall

7:38

of Fame, there was Ted Williams.

7:42

And in both cases, there

7:45

was a change in leadership within

7:47

Major League Baseball.

7:49

Back then,

7:51

Happy Chandler took over as MLB Commissioner,

7:54

leading to the end of the gentlemen's

7:55

agreement and the start of integration.

7:59

time around, a few years after

8:02

Ted Williams' speech, Bowie

8:04

Q took over. During

8:07

his tenure, he and others convinced

8:09

the Hall of Fame to create a special

8:11

committee to elect the first

8:13

Negro Leagues player.

8:17

The committee had 12 members, including

8:19

players such as Roy Campanella and

8:22

writers such as Wendell Smith, who

8:24

you may remember as the person who helped launch

8:26

Jackie Robinson's professional career. They

8:30

had a tough question to answer. Who

8:33

deserved to be the first inductee?

8:38

The committee ultimately chose the legendary

8:40

pitcher, Satchel Page.

8:45

This was progress,

8:46

sure,

8:48

but Satchel's induction came with a caveat.

8:51

Here's historian Leslie Heafy.

8:54

The Hall of Fame initially wanted

8:57

to put him in a separate wing and not allow

8:59

him to be in with all the

9:01

other plaques. Sounds

9:05

familiar, doesn't it?

9:07

Separate

9:08

but equal.

9:10

The backbone of segregation.

9:13

This decision was not well received

9:15

by the press. In fact, an

9:17

editorial in the Pittsburgh Courier said it sounded

9:20

like the backseat of a bus. The

9:23

Hall backed down and they ultimately

9:25

made the right decision and put him in with

9:28

all the other ballplayers, but that was the initial reaction.

9:32

The Hall changed its tune only one month

9:34

before Satchel was expected to be inducted.

9:38

On August 9, 1971, Satchel

9:40

came to Cooper's

9:42

town.

9:44

So I will say this

9:46

again. I am the proudest

9:48

man on earth right today and I know my

9:50

wife is.

9:53

Satchel was in his 60s

9:56

at the time. Before the ceremony,

9:59

he was quoted by newspapers is saying, I'm

10:02

proud wherever they put me in the Hall of Fame. But

10:05

part of me knows it wasn't that simple for him.

10:09

To be given what you're owed way

10:11

too late and expected to

10:13

be grateful for it is

10:16

something too many Black people have been asked to do

10:19

for too many years. If

10:23

we weren't told no,

10:25

then we were told to wait.

10:28

Despite waiting decades to receive

10:30

his flowers, Satchel

10:32

was proud of being the first inductee. But

10:36

maybe his legacy in

10:38

the Negro Leagues was already enough for him. Because

10:42

Satchel was also quoted saying this,

10:46

I was satisfied with my world, playing

10:48

all over and being a keynote to Black people.

10:52

The Negro Leagues was a universe unto

10:54

itself. And Satchel

10:57

was at the center.

11:00

Regardless of how he did or did not feel,

11:02

Satchel opened the door

11:04

for other Negro Leaguers to be inducted.

11:07

Josh Gibson in 1972, Buck Leonard also in 1972, Monte

11:13

Ervin in 1973, and Cool Papa Bell in 1974.

11:21

My grandfather played alongside and

11:23

against these men,

11:25

but his name was nowhere to be found on this esteemed

11:28

roster. His wife,

11:30

or as I call her, Grandma Nettie,

11:34

couldn't accept this. For

11:36

years, she wrote letters, in

11:38

perfect penmanship of course, to

11:41

everyone, baseball historians,

11:44

journalists,

11:45

local officials, you name it.

11:48

Grandma Nettie wanted the

11:49

world to know about Grandpa Turkey's legacy.

11:52

And for her, a big part

11:54

of that world was Cooperstown. In 1971,

11:59

one,

12:00

Cooperstown sent a submission form to my family,

12:03

an early step to potentially

12:05

getting on a Hall of Fame ballot. But

12:08

it didn't go anywhere, despite my grandmother's

12:11

efforts. To

12:13

my grandfather, it didn't

12:15

seem to matter. By

12:18

the 1970s, he had retired from

12:20

the Ford Foundry after 30 years

12:22

there. His golden

12:25

days were well behind him, and

12:27

it seemed like he would fade into obscurity

12:30

like so many of his peers.

12:34

Then

12:35

one day, in 1979,

12:37

my mother Joyce went into his bedroom and

12:40

found a letter on the dresser. It

12:43

wasn't from the Hall of Fame. It

12:45

was from a Kentucky native named Tom

12:48

Stolz. And I picked it up and I read and

12:50

it was an invitation, a compliment, and it really

12:52

really happened. And I said, Dad, this is an

12:54

invitation and this is

12:54

like a week before. You heard that right. An

12:57

invitation to a reunion of Negro League's

12:59

players. You see, Tom

13:02

Stolz was a newspaper publisher who

13:04

recently found out that a Negro Leaguer grew

13:06

up in his hometown.

13:08

So he decided to throw a birthday party for the player,

13:12

Clint Thomas.

13:14

Clint was turning 83 that year and

13:17

had been an outfielder in second baseman for

13:19

many teams, including the

13:21

Detroit Stars. After

13:24

his baseball career ended, he

13:26

worked as a custodian and later

13:28

as a messenger for the West Virginia State Senate.

13:32

Imagine that, a baseball player

13:35

who was so good that he was

13:37

known as the Black Joe DiMaggio, cleaning

13:40

floors and delivering mail. As

13:43

Tom Stolz told the Washington Post, here

13:46

was a guy the world had forgotten for 40 years.

13:51

Tom started inviting Clint's former teammates,

13:54

including Grandpa Turkey, to

13:56

this party. They

13:58

were now in their 70s.

13:59

in 80s. This

14:02

was like a week before something. And

14:04

he said, oh well. And I said, all the Negro Leaguers

14:06

are going to be there. You need to go to that. So I

14:08

called Tom and he said, it's not too late for

14:10

him.

14:12

And so my family made their way to Kentucky.

14:14

They were flying from Detroit

14:16

to Cincinnati, where they had a four

14:18

hour layover. And then from

14:21

Cincinnati to Ashland. But

14:24

Grandpa Turkey wasn't a fan of planes. I

14:26

didn't

14:26

tell him we were flying. I waited till we got to

14:28

the airport. He said, why are we stopping here? And

14:30

I said, we're going to fly. Surprise.

14:33

But he loved me so much. He

14:36

accepted it. While

14:39

they were in the sky, my mother remembers

14:42

him looking out the windows and saying, what

14:44

man can do? Then he started

14:47

singing one of his favorite songs, My

14:49

Country Tiz of Thee. I

14:54

wish I were there to hear him sing. And

14:56

I wish I had been with him when he landed in Kentucky

14:59

and made his way to the reunion. But

15:02

I wasn't even born at the time. Everything

15:05

I know about that weekend, I

15:07

know through my mother. And

15:10

one other thing, I

15:12

have the audio tape of him. An

15:15

audio recording of Turkey Stearns. I

15:18

had spent my life getting to know Grandpa through

15:20

photographs, newspaper clippings,

15:22

the words of my mother and

15:24

Grandma Nettie. But

15:26

I had never heard his voice.

15:30

I remember the first time I listened to this

15:32

tape. I was so

15:34

nervous. You can

15:36

hear the reunion happening around him on

15:39

that July weekend in 1979. I

15:41

was ready to hear

15:42

him. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

15:44

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm

15:46

sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

15:49

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm

15:51

sorry. I'm sorry. No,

15:53

no, there he was.

15:56

My grandfather, Turkey, teasing

15:59

my mother for. accidentally giving him a rummant coat.

16:01

Neither of them drank.

16:04

That's why it was funny. And

16:06

honestly, I loved that the

16:09

first time I heard my grandfather's voice, he

16:11

made me laugh. I

16:14

appreciated that bit of comic relief because

16:17

frankly, it was overwhelming to hear

16:19

his voice.

16:21

In the past,

16:22

I had thought about what it would be like to see him play,

16:25

to step out onto the field

16:27

with his fellow monarchs and hit that ball. But

16:31

I'd never thought about his voice. And

16:34

yet here he was, as if I had

16:36

heard in my entire life. It

16:39

was like finding buried treasure.

16:42

Here he is, talking about his

16:44

nickname. Oh, why did they call you turkey?

16:46

Oh, I didn't think they'd call you turkey. I

16:49

think they'd be able to hear you. You know?

16:52

The man who's asking him questions is

16:54

journalist Joe Lapointe. Since

16:57

the reunion, he's become a family friend.

17:00

Hey, how you doing? Hey.

17:03

Good to see you. So I

17:05

sat down with him to talk about that day. What's

17:08

wrong?

17:12

Joe Lapointe has covered sports for decades,

17:15

starting at the Detroit Free Press and

17:17

later at the New York Times. Have you listened

17:19

to the report? You can hear this sound

17:21

in it. The sound and accent. Right, right.

17:24

That so many people in Detroit had.

17:26

Joe was writing for the Detroit Free Press at the time.

17:29

He didn't know much about the Negro Leagues

17:31

when he went to the reunion. I had heard

17:33

of them when I was a kid, but it was

17:36

like a ghost league. There was spirits

17:40

were still around, but there wasn't a lot of film

17:43

and there wasn't a lot of record books. And

17:46

somebody tipped off my sports

17:48

editor that this player, who was really

17:50

good, was going to be returning south

17:53

for a reunion with some Negro League

17:55

players. And my editor said, are you interested

17:57

in going? I said, heck yes, that's a good story.

17:59

story.

18:01

What started out as a birthday party for Clint

18:03

Thomas became a whole production.

18:06

It was held at Tom Stoltz's house, but

18:09

don't assume it was a humble affair. There

18:12

was a banquet and a boat ride. Many

18:16

notable baseball figures were there, including

18:19

the former MLB commissioner, Happy

18:21

Chandler. But the real stars

18:23

were the former

18:24

players, Judy

18:26

Johnson, Monty Ervin, Buck

18:28

Leonard. The Washington

18:31

Post reported

18:31

a touching moment between Clint and

18:34

former shortstop Paul Stevens. They

18:37

both played for the Homestead Grays in 1929. Paul

18:42

greeted Clint with the line, sit

18:45

down old man, to

18:47

which Clint replied, what

18:49

you mean old man? It

18:53

was a joke among old friends, but

18:56

this exchange pointed to something

18:58

bigger. Many

19:00

of the men at this reunion hadn't

19:03

seen each other since the collapse of the Negro Leagues.

19:06

That was in the 1950s. Two

19:09

decades had passed, and at

19:12

this point in their lives, they

19:14

were ordinary guys working

19:16

ordinary jobs. But this

19:18

weekend, they were

19:21

teammates again. There

19:24

was hugging, the swapping of playful

19:26

insults. But my

19:28

grandfather, like always, stayed

19:31

out of the limelight.

19:34

How would you describe him? Quiet, pleasant,

19:38

smiled a little bit, but not he wasn't a slap

19:41

on the back Yahoo guy. He was a one

19:44

of the quieter guys. But everybody

19:46

seemed to know him, and everyone seemed to respect

19:49

him.

19:50

Grandpa Turkey didn't say much until

19:53

you got him talking about the Detroit Tigers.

19:59

I've mentioned this in previous episodes,

20:02

but my grandfather wasn't allowed to play in the Tigers

20:04

home stadium because of segregation.

20:08

Despite this, he would go to as many

20:11

Tigers games as he could, even

20:13

years after he retired. He

20:16

would ride the bus to the stadium and

20:18

sit in the bleachers where most

20:20

of the black fans were. My

20:23

Grandma Nettie said you always knew when the Tigers

20:25

were losing because Grandpa would

20:27

come home early

20:28

before the game was even over.

20:41

I think Joe Lapointe's conversation with Grandpa

20:43

Turkey sparked an idea.

20:45

A few weeks after the reunion, Joe

20:48

called my family and said he'd like to do a photo shoot

20:50

with Grandpa Turkey at the Battersbox

20:53

and Tigers Stadium. Well

20:55

Turkey went there and met with Joe and

20:58

photographer John Collier. My

21:01

mom dressed Grandpa Turkey up for the occasion.

21:04

He had him in a suit coat

21:06

or sport coat, crease trousers,

21:09

neat hat, I mean she had him sharp. And

21:12

his batting stance was sharp. The way

21:14

he picked up the bat, flipped it back

21:17

into his batting stance, the left-handed side

21:20

of the plate. And you could tell this

21:22

guy knew what he was doing around a baseball bat. And

21:25

he looked out to the outfield,

21:28

toward the pitcher's mount in the outfield and in his

21:31

field of vision there would have been the very bleachers

21:33

where he and his friend sat to watch a baseball

21:35

game. And I thought well what

21:38

an interesting moment this is. He was always denied

21:40

the chance to play on this field but

21:43

sure enough he was able to watch games

21:45

here and now here he is holding a bat.

21:49

When you look up Turkey Stearns, that

21:51

photo is one of the first that pops up.

21:55

I love this picture.

21:57

Joe is bright.

21:59

Turkey knew what he was doing. His

22:02

stance was so natural that it didn't

22:05

even look like he was posing. He

22:08

was ready to take a swing. You

22:10

can see it in his eyes.

22:14

You wouldn't have guessed that he never played a game

22:16

at Tiger Stadium. He

22:18

belonged there.

22:21

And I got a chill at the time we took

22:23

the picture and I still get a chill when I look

22:25

at the picture. I think the picture was

22:27

better than any words I wrote. When

22:30

I look at this photo, there's something

22:33

else I notice. There's

22:36

so much power

22:37

in his stance, but he looks very thin.

22:42

My family didn't know it at the time, but he was sick. Shortly

22:46

after that photo shoot

22:48

at Tiger Stadium, my mother took him to the

22:51

hospital. He said his stomach hurt. He was

22:53

so tired. He was so tired. He was so tired. He

22:55

was so tired. He was so tired. He was so tired.

22:58

He said his stomach hurt and he kept pointing to

23:01

it, the center part.

23:03

My mother says grandpa had a high tolerance for

23:05

pain. So it was a big

23:07

deal for him to mention this. The

23:10

doctors started running tests, but

23:13

they couldn't get any answers. Then

23:16

grandpa took a turn for the worse and

23:18

had to get surgery. It

23:20

was stomach cancer.

23:22

The cancer had perforated his stomach to the size

23:24

of a donut. He had it for about five years. He

23:27

should have been in

23:27

an excruciating pain.

23:30

Before my family could even process this, he

23:33

went into a partial coma soon after the operation.

23:38

And I used to go and talk in his ear

23:40

real softly and I would see

23:42

his eyes fluttered. So I hope

23:44

that meant that he was hearing me, but he

23:47

never woke up.

23:50

My grandfather passed away on September 4th, 1979.

23:56

At his funeral, mom and Aunty

23:58

Ra sang Going Up Yonder. One

24:01

of grandpa's favorites. Even

24:04

to this day when they sing at Comerica Park,

24:08

I feel like they're still singing for him. My

24:14

grandpa didn't receive fame or fortune

24:16

during his career,

24:18

but he valued being what he called a

24:20

good man.

24:22

He never had a bad word to say about anyone,

24:26

and he lived for his family.

24:31

This meant more to him than winning a World

24:34

Series. I

24:48

owe so much to my grandfather, this

24:51

man I've never met, but

24:53

feel like I've always known. Because

24:57

of him, I know

24:58

that anything is possible for me.

25:01

It's like what the great writer James Baldwin

25:03

once said. Grandpa

25:06

Turkey is already paid for my crown. All

25:09

I have to do

25:10

is wear it.

25:21

By 1979, the year

25:23

Grandpa Turkey died, black

25:26

representation in Major League Baseball was

25:28

about to hit its all-time high. Ever.

25:31

Some of its biggest

25:34

stars were black,

25:35

like right fielder Reggie Jackson.

25:37

One of the game's great personalities and clutch

25:39

hitters, Reggie Jackson, formerly

25:42

of the New York Yankees, in Oakland, A.C. This was

25:44

the next generation of black players.

25:47

Players who owed so much to the men who came

25:50

before them. In fact,

25:52

Reggie's father even played in the Negro Leagues

25:55

in the 1930s.

25:58

by Turkey

26:01

had passed away

26:02

or long retired from baseball.

26:05

An

26:05

entire generation of black players

26:07

never got the recognition they deserved.

26:11

So it was high time to acknowledge the legacies

26:13

of these men and

26:15

to put their names on

26:18

the sacred walls in the Hall of

26:20

Fame.

26:23

Now getting any player into

26:25

the Hall of Fame is a

26:27

process.

26:29

There are lots of rules about who is eligible

26:31

to be voted into the Hall of Fame

26:33

and

26:33

who gets to vote for them.

26:36

To make things more complicated,

26:39

those rules often change. And

26:42

not everyone in the baseball world agrees

26:44

on the rubric that the players will be judged

26:46

against. It's not as easy

26:48

as counting up the number of home runs someone

26:50

has. Words like

26:53

character and popularity

26:56

and legacy are part of the discussion.

26:59

And there's

27:00

always lots of discussion

27:03

and debate among the voting members

27:05

of the Baseball Writers Association

27:07

of America about who should be

27:09

on the ballot. Once

27:11

those potential inductees are selected, the

27:14

voters decide who they think

27:15

is most deserving. For

27:18

a while, it

27:20

didn't seem like Negro Leaguers were seen

27:22

as deserving. And

27:24

by 1979, the Special

27:27

Hall of Fame committee that inducted Satchel Paige

27:30

had been disbanded. Out

27:34

of more than 3000 Negro

27:35

Leagues players, only

27:38

nine had been inducted. And

27:40

that was it.

27:43

So Cooperstown expanded the jurisdiction

27:45

of what was called the Veterans Committee. It

27:49

was made up partly of Living Hall of Famers,

27:52

hence, veteran.

27:54

The committee was separate

27:55

from the Writers Association, but

27:58

their voting process was similar. Lots

28:01

of debate and then a deciding

28:03

vote. In

28:07

the decade that followed the

28:09

1980s, the Veterans

28:11

Committee only elected two Negro

28:13

leaguers, third baseman

28:15

Ray Dandridge, and someone

28:17

you've already heard of, Andrew

28:20

Rube Foster, the father

28:22

of black baseball.

28:24

Again, that was it.

28:29

And getting these two in wasn't easy.

28:32

Buck O'Neill, who was the first baseman for

28:35

the Kansas City Monarchs, was on the committee

28:37

with a couple other Negro leaguers.

28:39

Campanella, myself,

28:42

and Marty Ervin.

28:43

Listen, we got to sell these

28:46

people. It was tough, so I

28:48

said, we don't have

28:50

much of a chance to put these guys in.

28:53

They had to lobby the other committee members

28:55

to recognize Negro leaguers.

28:58

So Buck proposed,

29:00

you guessed it,

29:02

a rule change.

29:03

And in 1995, the Veterans

29:06

Committee was given two extra potential inductees.

29:10

One of those had to be from the Negro Leagues.

29:14

Over the next five years,

29:16

the committee put in five more players, thanks

29:19

in part to Buck.

29:26

Now, the crazy thing is

29:28

that Buck himself should have been in the Hall of Fame

29:30

from the beginning. He

29:33

was a legend, and he played

29:35

alongside Grandpa Turkey

29:36

when they were both with the Kansas

29:38

City Monarchs. But

29:40

Buck realized he had other ambitions.

29:44

I always wanted to be a manager

29:48

by looking at Rube

29:50

Foster and the dugout smoking

29:52

that pipe, giving the signals and things

29:55

like that. It always fascinated

29:57

me. Buck became

29:59

a manager for the U.S.

29:59

for the Monarchs while still playing first

30:02

space. In the off

30:04

season, he barn stormed or worked

30:06

at the post office.

30:08

In fact, he said

30:10

he probably would have stayed at the post office

30:13

if he hadn't started scouting for the Cubs.

30:17

Buck ultimately became the first

30:19

black coach in the majors. He

30:22

stayed on the veterans committee for many years

30:25

and kept campaigning for Negro leaders. Hilton

30:28

Smith would be one. Mule,

30:31

Suttles, Willard Brown.

30:35

But Ted Strong,

30:37

double duty Radcliffe.

30:40

These guys are supposed to be in

30:42

all of them.

30:44

Hilton, Mule and Willard ended up getting

30:46

inducted. To this day,

30:49

Ted Strong still hasn't

30:50

been. By

30:53

the way, Ted double duty

30:55

Radcliffe is in the family. He's

30:58

the uncle of my Grandma Nettie. So

31:00

that makes him my great, great uncle.

31:03

He played for more than a dozen teams and

31:06

ultimately became a manager. So

31:09

he was never a Hall of Fame inductee.

31:13

That seemed to be the fate for Grandpa Turkey too.

31:17

Grandma Nettie was still writing those letters

31:19

in that perfect penmanship

31:21

to Cooperstown,

31:23

trying to get them to recognize grandpa's legacy.

31:25

Here's my Auntie Roz.

31:28

I said, just keep writing until something happens.

31:30

So I said, we're just gonna get on

31:33

their nerves. I said, because you know the squeaky wheel

31:35

gets the oil. So that's what we're gonna

31:37

be. We're gonna be the squeaky wheel.

31:40

Two decades passed

31:42

and no luck.

31:45

But then in 1999, Auntie

31:49

Roz received an email from a

31:51

guy named Dan Dirks.

31:54

And he said, well, if you're truly

31:56

Turkey's turn daughter, would you mind

31:58

if we get your dad in house? And I'm

32:01

like, yeah, right. This jerk, I

32:03

said, okay. I said, well shoot your best shot.

32:05

Cause I'm thinking he's a teen sarcasm. And

32:08

so he said, okay. And so he started

32:10

telling me things that were going to happen and do

32:12

this and do that. And he started asking for information.

32:15

And he said, I need this from your family. And I need

32:17

some little biography of your mom and your

32:19

sister and doctor, doctor, doctor. I said,

32:22

oh my God, this man is serious.

32:24

And so I had to apologize to him. The

32:26

man was serious.

32:29

Dan was part of a group of men who lobbied

32:31

for Turkey's induction

32:33

by trying to raise Turkey's profile among

32:35

the public

32:36

and the members of the Baseball Writers Association

32:38

of America.

32:41

Finally, in 2000, it

32:43

was time for the Writers Association

32:45

to announce who would be joining the Hall

32:47

of Fame.

32:48

This was a big moment for my family.

32:50

And there were enough emotions

32:52

to fill Tiger Stadium. Auntie

32:56

Roz remembers getting a call from the wife of

32:58

one of the men trying to get Grandpa Turkey inducted.

33:00

And she said, would you please talk to

33:02

my husband? Because if your dad doesn't make it

33:05

to the Hall of Fame, I think he's going to have a nervous

33:07

breakdown. I said, no, tell him just

33:09

be calm. I said, we don't get it this year. I

33:11

said, we'll just keep going until we do get

33:13

it.

33:14

My family was ready to continue to fight,

33:17

no matter what. But

33:19

would they need to? Well,

33:23

I'll let Buck O'Neill tell you.

33:27

How many of your monarchs

33:29

are in the Hall of Fame? With the Monarch

33:31

Bowl Club would be B.

33:34

Rogan and Satio. Cool

33:37

Papa played with the monarchs one time.

33:39

So did

33:41

the guy we just put in this year.

33:45

Turkish done. Did

33:49

you catch that? I

33:58

forget there is one scene.

34:01

This is me in 2000.

34:05

I'm 16 years old with a piece

34:07

of gum in my mouth and my ponytail

34:10

in a white scrunchie.

34:11

And I feel like

34:13

I'm in another

34:13

universe. A universe

34:16

devoted to baseball. I'm

34:20

in Cooperstown and Grandpa

34:22

Turkey is being inducted into the

34:24

Hall of Fame.

34:26

Funny enough, a

34:29

tennis match is happening in the background. Author

34:34

Dick Clark, one of the guys who helped

34:36

put my grandpa on the ballot, was

34:38

asking me questions about my high school basketball

34:40

career. There was

34:43

other teams with kids that I ate.

34:46

We beat all them, but we didn't beat this.

34:48

But this weekend

34:50

was about baseball.

34:53

More than that, it was about Grandpa

34:55

Turkey, the other inductees,

34:57

and the people who came to celebrate them.

35:00

And there were some big names there. Yogi

35:03

Berra, Willie Mays, Johnny

35:06

Bent. Despite

35:08

never playing in the majors,

35:10

Grandpa was,

35:11

on that day,

35:13

considered one of their peers.

35:16

Buck O'Neill was there too.

35:19

He came over to us and gave Grandma Nettie

35:21

a hug.

35:23

Here's Dick asking him a question about Grandpa.

35:27

I was always wanting to ask

35:29

you how Turkey was playing in his older

35:32

days. Is he still

35:34

bad in like third or fourth? Yeah,

35:37

that's all he was. Yeah. You

35:40

can hit that ball and run.

35:42

Playing. Third position. I

35:45

know I should have been awestruck by all

35:47

of these stars,

35:49

but I remember being focused on my Grandma.

35:53

Grandma Nettie wore pearls on her neck, a

35:55

smile on her face, and a boutonniere

35:58

of white and pink flowers on her dress.

36:02

Because my grandpa couldn't be there, Grandma

36:05

Nettie planned to accept the honor on his behalf.

36:09

Here she is talking to Dick about

36:10

the speech she was about to give. Well,

36:12

I mentioned the ones that I met

36:14

on the

36:14

news that they were working

36:17

hard to get a meeting.

36:20

That's what I did. That's okay. It's

36:22

not a great speech, but it's a good

36:24

one. Oh, no. It'll be a great speech.

36:27

Don't worry, Nettie.

36:28

And you know what?

36:30

She didn't have to worry.

36:33

Great

36:34

is exactly how I would describe it.

36:58

I feel great.

37:02

Not only did she answer her own question,

37:05

but she quoted Tony the Tiger. Only

37:08

my grandma would have the courage to do that on

37:11

baseball's grandest stage.

37:14

I am honored and humbled to show you

37:17

and represent my family as

37:19

a people. Grandpa

37:24

was the

37:26

17th Negro League's player

37:30

inducted

37:33

into the Hall

37:37

of Fame.

37:50

A year after he was inducted, another

37:52

committee was formed to elect the next round

37:54

of Negro Leaguers to the Hall. In 2006,

37:58

they elected more than a dozen...

37:59

players, managers, and coaches.

38:03

Then

38:05

nothing.

38:06

For the next 16 years,

38:09

not a single Negro Leaguer was inducted.

38:13

And by this time, some

38:15

of the rules had changed again. The

38:18

Veterans Committee was broken into separate committees.

38:22

One of them focuses on considering people whose

38:24

contributions to the game

38:26

came before 1950.

38:28

That's the category Negro Leaguers fall under.

38:31

But the thing

38:33

is, this committee doesn't vote

38:35

every year.

38:37

In fact,

38:38

it wasn't until last year that another

38:40

batch of Negro Leaguers were voted into the Hall

38:42

of Fame. Buck

38:44

O'Neill was one of them.

38:46

Finally,

38:48

the legend himself

38:49

was given his rightful place. 16

38:51

years

38:52

after he died.

38:54

But the committee

38:56

that voted Buck in isn't

38:58

scheduled to vote again

39:00

until 2031. This

39:04

means that if the rules stay the same,

39:06

there won't be another Negro Leaguers inductee for

39:09

nearly another decade.

39:14

Look,

39:15

being in the Hall of Fame is an honor. It

39:18

has ensured that even though many people still

39:21

don't know who Grandpa Turkey is, at

39:23

least he's not completely invisible.

39:26

But I'm afraid that other Negro Leaguers may never

39:29

have that chance to be seen.

39:31

Because yet again, we've been

39:33

told to wait. Like

39:36

we always have been. Wait

39:40

to plan the majors. Wait

39:43

to be included among baseball great. And

39:46

the thing is,

39:47

believe it or not, we're

39:51

still waiting

39:52

for much more.

39:58

A big announcement from Major League.

39:59

baseball today, it has reclassified

40:02

the Negro Leagues as a major league.

40:05

That means it will now count. Who are you to

40:07

tell us that we are now major leaguers? We

40:11

always consider our relatives as

40:13

major leaguers.

40:14

I'm not angry, I'm disappointed and I'm

40:16

fed up.

40:17

I

40:19

want them to step up to the plate and do the right thing.

40:31

Reclaimed, The

40:33

Forgotten League, is an original production

40:35

of ABC Audio, hosted

40:38

by me, Vanessa Ivy Rose. This

40:41

episode was written by Susie Liu. The

40:43

series was produced by Madeline Wood, Cameron

40:46

Chertavian, Eru Ekpanobi, Camille

40:49

Peterson and Amira Williams. Our

40:51

senior producers on this project were Susie

40:53

Liu and Lakia Brown. Music

40:56

by Evan Viola. This episode

40:59

was

40:59

scored by Evan Viola and Eru Ekpanobi.

41:02

A big shout out to our ABC Audio

41:04

team, Liz Alessi, Josh

41:07

Cohan, Ariel Chester, Sasha

41:10

Aslanian, Marwa Marwaki,

41:13

Audrey Bostek and Erin Farrar.

41:16

Special thanks to Trish Donovan, Rick

41:18

Klein, Eric Feil, Anthony

41:21

Fanik, Mara Bush and of

41:23

course my mom, Joyce Stearns Thompson

41:26

and my aunt, Broslan Stearns Brown.

41:29

Laura Mayer is our executive producer. Buck

41:32

O'Neill Oral History Interview, courtesy

41:35

of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum.