0:02

From I Heeart podcast I Am

0:05

Fab five Freddy and this this

0:07

fifty years of hip Hop podcast

0:09

series. So as we all by

0:12

now clearly know, the birthplace

0:15

of hip hop is the Bronx in

0:17

New York City and

0:19

would soon magnify, grow,

0:23

expand and morph into

0:25

other boroughs, into other parts of the city,

0:28

Queens State Island,

0:30

Brooklyn of course, you know Manhattan,

0:33

money Maker Manhattan as we call it. This

0:36

expansion of rap music would

0:38

not stop. I mean on and

0:40

on to the break of dawn. And

0:42

as other parts of the country begin

0:45

to hear and connect with this flavor,

0:47

other sounds developed from other parts

0:50

of the country, from the West coast, from

0:52

the southwest, other parts

0:54

of the East coast.

0:54

A lot of times people say the East Coast.

0:56

They mainly are referencing New

0:58

York as you're here later with other people

1:00

speaking, but we're talking the east coast

1:02

of the country. You know, New York, DC,

1:05

But it was mainly coming out of New York

1:07

on the east. But also Philly, which is kind

1:10

of east, was also a

1:12

big early influence. But

1:14

stars were developing, groups,

1:16

different ideas, different beats were

1:19

developing and having a really strong

1:21

impact, especially from Atlanta

1:23

and they were touching all parts of the country.

1:26

Without a doubt that South definitely

1:28

had something to say along with everybody

1:30

else. Let's get into it, Shaudi

1:33

Das music industry executive,

1:35

Well.

1:36

New York.

1:36

I mean, first of all, let me just say I am a

1:38

big fan of New York culture and hip hop.

1:40

I lived in Jersey and worked in Manhattan

1:43

for ten years and as a young girl grew

1:45

up listening to everybody from

1:48

you know, one of my favorite groups ever was

1:50

a tribe called Quest you know, rest in Peace

1:52

to Fife Dog and shout out to Ali

1:54

in Youtip. So listening

1:57

to those guys tribe and I

1:59

think was the one group that

2:02

I love because they it was more live

2:04

instrumentation, it seemed like in some of their

2:06

music, but traditional hip hop like

2:09

it's you know, EP and D right or

2:11

l O Cooolja. It was more

2:13

I think eight oh eight heavy, you know, and beats

2:16

and that sort of thing, and so Atlanta hip

2:18

hop and Southern hip hop from the onset

2:20

I think was just

2:23

like a hodgepodge of different

2:25

sounds of music. Because I think that's one thing

2:27

that was so special about the guys

2:29

in the Dungeon family. Rico ran pat is

2:31

that you know, you had all these live

2:33

musicians in the studio, You had a little bit

2:35

of.

2:36

Funk, gospel soul.

2:39

They still had the you know, thrum

2:41

machines and all of that, and it

2:44

just brought it all together as

2:46

like a mixture of different genres,

2:49

if you will. And so it was laid

2:51

back.

2:52

It was something you could sing to.

2:53

I think Southern playlistic like that first

2:56

album from Our Chats was just so funky

2:58

and it was something that I think, well hadn't really

3:00

heard before, and it was like, you

3:02

know, what is this. You know, it sounds a little

3:05

bit like hip hop, but it also sounds like someone

3:07

Auntie and my grandma might listen to also,

3:09

And so it was just this new sound,

3:12

if you will.

3:13

It kind of came to the forefront end.

3:15

You know, you had sounds like from

3:18

George Clinton, you know, if you will. So it

3:20

was very funky and lace

3:22

still with heart beats, and so it was just a

3:24

new sound. And then I think

3:26

as trap music evolved, that

3:28

was a different sound as well. Right, I

3:31

was in New York at the time when like t

3:33

I and g Z and you know, Shout Out to the Lake,

3:36

Shakir Sewart, who I think was responsible

3:38

for signing a lot of artists and really helping the

3:40

shape what that trap music era

3:43

sounded like.

3:44

And I think trap music.

3:45

Really was an opportunity for

3:48

people to really talk about the environment

3:51

and what they went through, the

3:53

struggles growing up in the

3:55

South, some things that you know, guys

3:57

had to do. Maybe they weren't proud of getting out

3:59

of the trap right being able to find

4:02

other outlets for themselves. And so trap

4:06

music to me was kind of reminiscent

4:08

of what we heard in the earlier days

4:11

when hip hop started, whether it was

4:13

you know, Ice Cube talking about what he went

4:15

through in the West Coast, or you

4:18

know the plight of the black community

4:20

that you you know heard from Chut

4:22

D and Public Enemy. Like, trap

4:24

music kind of talked about a lot of the struggles

4:26

that we were going through in the South.

4:28

Yeah, Shanti Dots, her Auntie and Grandma,

4:31

if listening closely, were moved by

4:33

bits and chunks of sixties

4:35

and seventies soul songs that was

4:37

sampled and used as a lot of raps

4:39

foundations.

4:41

Bun Be hip hop legend

4:43

and entrepreneur.

4:45

Well, I mean, you know, you got to go through a lot of things,

4:47

right, So I started seeing

4:49

I remember, you know, primarily a lot of hip hop.

4:51

I saw things from New York. I started

4:53

to see hip hop come out of the

4:55

West Coach right from LA

4:58

and from the Bay Area. I started

5:01

to see rap come out of

5:04

let's say Philadelphia, right with schoolely

5:06

D and Tough Crew. We started

5:09

to see rap come out of Florida

5:12

with the ghetto style DJs and

5:14

Luke Records and all that early peg jam

5:16

stuff. You started to see guys like Kelo, you

5:19

know, come out of Atlanta. You started

5:21

to see you know, Gregory D and

5:23

Manny Fresh, you know, started

5:26

to come out of New Orleans, all of these

5:28

different rejates representing themselves. And

5:30

then there we were in Houston. We had a lot of guys

5:32

like RP. Coola, Romeo,

5:34

Poet, Billy D, Willie D,

5:37

you know, the college boys.

5:39

Primarily for us, it was Rap

5:41

a Lot.

5:41

Records, who was actually like a

5:43

full up and running record

5:45

label, signed the artists and releasing

5:48

music in the city.

5:49

And at the same time.

5:50

As we were recording were

5:52

getting ready to release music, the

5:55

ghetto boys ended up dropping mind

5:57

playing tricks on me. It became this

5:59

national hit record, you know

6:01

what I'm saying, cover of the source magazine

6:04

perform Alive and yourt raps,

6:06

and that just gave us more confidence

6:08

to believe that we could make it this game.

6:10

Like, look, these are people from where we're from.

6:13

Basically at this point, and they

6:15

took that all the way. So once

6:17

we saw that, I know, for me, it put a fire

6:19

under me. You know what I'm saying that, Like, Okay, Texas

6:22

is actually recognized and acknowledge

6:24

you know what I'm saying, Let's see where it can go.

6:27

Yeah, but hip hop is like an algorithm.

6:29

I feel, once you figure it out,

6:32

you can work it in any city or state

6:34

in the country or country on the

6:36

whole planet. Paul

6:38

Wall, rapper DJ.

6:41

When I think about.

6:42

How hip hop expanded outside of New York

6:44

City to down South, I sometimes

6:46

get stuck between how it was and how it

6:48

is. When I was growing up listening

6:50

to Southern hip hop, it

6:53

was unaccepted by

6:55

the rest of the music industry and the rest of

6:57

the hip hop community. It was like

7:00

we wanted stepchild or

7:02

something in terms of how everyone

7:04

else looked at the South. Some

7:06

of that was because of where it was created

7:08

and the power that comes with

7:11

that and the dopeness that comes

7:13

with growing up in a place where

7:15

this was created. So

7:17

from birth a lot of people parents was

7:20

around it or influenced by one way or another,

7:22

and almost everybody that.

7:24

Grew up right it was influenced by one way or

7:26

another.

7:27

So coming from the South, where

7:30

the Southern ways weren't some of us accepted.

7:33

A lot of them will look down on, like the Southern

7:36

drawl or being talking slow,

7:38

or you know, it was looked down on as ignorance.

7:40

But we just a little

7:43

warmer, a little hot of down in Texas. So we

7:45

move a little slower sometimes, but we get that when

7:47

we need to, even with how we

7:49

listen to the music, and the South was

7:51

so much different. The South and the Midwest

7:54

were be on cars, on the car culture,

7:57

along with the West coast where it wasn't

7:59

as big on the so a lot of our music

8:02

reflected that. Where we had a

8:04

lot of bass, we had a lot of bassline,

8:06

a lot of sampling where

8:08

it wasn't the soul samples so much or the boom

8:11

back type of sample so much. It was more blues

8:13

samples, and the blue samples

8:15

would do something. It's a little bit different when

8:17

they hit in that face and you had hato

8:19

wasts and trunks around the sample. And

8:21

that's what you would see a lot in a

8:23

lot of the Southern music.

8:25

Also a lot of the Southern.

8:26

Producers, almost all of them. You

8:29

know, it's like the only outlet

8:31

for music is the church. So you

8:33

learn so much in the church that influences

8:36

how you create that music, how you play the instruments,

8:39

or how you just bring it all together. So

8:42

when I think of how it was for me growing up

8:44

in the South, there was a tremendous amount of pride

8:47

listening to Southern hip hop for me, or

8:50

especially Texas hip hop. You

8:52

know, from sixth grade in

8:54

school in Texas, you talked Texas

8:57

history and you always kind of talk

8:59

of course all my all those everything bigger in Texas,

9:01

but you're always taught the sense of Texas

9:03

pride. So you support

9:05

things that come from Texas. A lot of people

9:07

that come out of Texas you feel like don't get a fair

9:09

shot, so you root for them a little harder,

9:11

you support them a little harder sometimes, and

9:14

you just all around just are proud of where you're

9:16

from. So being proud of

9:18

Texas and proud of the music that came from

9:20

Texas was something that I took

9:23

a tremendous amount of pride.

9:25

I'm glad to hear Paul Wall mention

9:27

the blues because really, when you think about it,

9:30

let's face it, R and B if you

9:32

will, it's really rhythm and blues

9:34

and blues is so much at the core of

9:37

all American music. And

9:39

so the blues also, which

9:41

a lot of it originated in the South. So

9:44

many people in New York and the biggest cities,

9:47

their families originated in the South, and

9:49

then they migrated north into those other

9:51

cities to have a better lifestyle. But the

9:53

soul of that music is the soul

9:56

of American music, and the

9:58

South helped put a lot of that all

10:00

back into hip hop. Without questions,

10:03

we go Wade from Organized Noise,

10:06

producer pioneer of

10:08

the Dirty South sound.

10:10

When Andre said that the South got something to say.

10:13

Minded folks, you know what I'm saying.

10:14

It's like we got a demo tape on him by the one to.

10:16

Head, but it's like this, the South got something to say.

10:18

That's all I got to say.

10:20

That was after Southern playlists we had already

10:22

went Platt. That's why it was so much

10:24

disappointment in his voice, like

10:26

we platinum,

10:28

like we were platinum. And plus I think the

10:30

source of magazine had told us they was gonna

10:33

put us on the cover of the Source. And

10:35

then at the end of it, right at the end, Ben

10:38

Zeno or he put his group

10:40

the Barrio Boys on the cover. So we

10:42

was like, well, that's some obvious

10:45

boys. You know what I'm saying. You gotta realize you I'm saying,

10:47

and this is and we were talking to Dave Maidens.

10:49

Even Dave was like, it's some bulle but

10:53

but luckily the source, it kind of it

10:55

kind of broke up a little bit.

10:56

After that.

10:57

A lot of the best writers, they really took

10:59

the stand the way they because

11:01

because of what you're saying, like what

11:04

you're saying, like the majority was rocking

11:06

with everybody. So it was still some inside

11:08

some inside challenges you had to deal with

11:11

with certain DJs or certain people that

11:13

that they was trying to like keep

11:15

their old, their old New York alive. We

11:18

gotta play this more and don't

11:20

let me find on New York arts that we

11:22

can support. We're gonna try to or we gonna

11:24

support them way harder. Than we can somebody

11:27

else, which is cool because if you

11:29

undeniable, you undeniable.

11:31

So so that's what it may. It created

11:33

the monster that's outcast. It created

11:36

that monster. These boys had to keep coming

11:38

back with something else. Dope, I'm seeing better

11:40

lyrics. We had to come back with better music

11:42

than what we did before, and at

11:45

the same time not compromising

11:47

or not being scared because it would be times

11:49

when you know you I'd be like, well,

11:51

maybe, well, we don't have to do that. I'm

11:53

saying, y'all, ain't gotta we don't have to do

11:56

We don't have to be that different no more. We

11:59

could just be straight. But it was like, nah, we start

12:01

like outcasts. Was driven at that point.

12:03

That's all we know now is being different.

12:05

You know, we go.

12:06

I feel you loud and clear on that, man. But in

12:08

my opinion, you know what's important. It's

12:10

key to any region's success as

12:13

hip hop spread around the country is

12:15

a significant combo of unique

12:17

and innovative music talent and

12:20

a few key players who

12:22

can handle business and make deals.

12:24

I mean, sit at the table with the powers that

12:26

be and structure are somewhat

12:29

If you can equitable deal, that's

12:31

key to any of these regions blowing up and

12:33

having a significant influence.

12:36

That's like the cheat code if you will.

12:38

Master p he had it, Baby

12:40

and Slim, Jermaine Duprie,

12:43

La Reid and Babyface J Prince

12:46

just a few of those cats that knew how to

12:48

put those deals in place to really make

12:50

it happen.

12:51

Shady das Big Cat was a friend

12:54

to Outcast and to Goodie Mob, and

12:56

he was one of the first DJs that will

12:58

actually play our stuff,

13:01

whether it was in rotation or not. Like

13:03

he fought really hard for us and some

13:05

of the other DJs, it took a lot harder. Like Clues

13:08

supported us do Wop, a

13:10

lot of people supported us early on, but a lot of the

13:12

bigger DJs it took a long time

13:14

for them to come around. And once they did,

13:16

you know, the respect was there. But you

13:18

know, being in New York

13:20

and it being the birthplace of hip

13:23

hop, there's a certain level of

13:25

arrogance that was always there from a

13:27

hip hop perspective, and it was frustrating,

13:30

especially as a young girl working street

13:32

teams and promotions. And I

13:34

was relentless at you know, supporting

13:36

my group and trying to break my group. But it was

13:38

not easy getting our foot in the

13:40

door, and even with Goodie Mob,

13:43

like it was even harder working Goodie Mob than

13:45

outcasts. And so there

13:47

were just times when we felt like, you know, step

13:50

kids in the culture, and

13:52

we just it was just it just meant that we had

13:54

to work, you know, three or four times as

13:56

hard to get hurt and to get that national

13:58

attention and respect.

14:01

DJ record producer and

14:04

music executive.

14:05

I knew that being up North, that we

14:07

will never survive based

14:09

on a crab and a barrel thought process.

14:12

They didn't have that. The Southern comfort

14:14

allowed them. I don't remember them

14:17

ever being a serious beef. If

14:19

it was a rap argument, it was a rap argument, but

14:21

it was never really. The only

14:23

one I seen was the pastor Troy master

14:26

P thing, but it still

14:28

was in lines of hip hop, you know what I

14:30

mean. It wasn't like it

14:32

was disrespectful, but it wasn't

14:34

like how the North we carried

14:37

it, you know what I mean. The way we carried up North

14:39

is like we expose you and you're

14:41

never supposed to come back around. The

14:43

ecosystem here allowed both of them

14:46

to live. It was like, well people

14:48

are like him, y'all go over there, people will hug

14:50

him.

14:51

But I seen it when they started.

14:53

And when I said when Andre

14:55

said the South got something to say,

14:59

I felt like they did here.

15:01

I felt like they was like, so

15:04

what y'all gotta say? Nobody give a you

15:06

know what I'm saying.

15:07

And even though they was making these

15:10

smacks and people was respecting

15:12

them and it was just them,

15:15

it was like outcast was the whole Atlanta. But

15:17

really he was saying, yo, anywhere

15:19

from New Orleans down to Miami, South

15:22

Carolina, North Carolina. Bro we on

15:24

some you know what I mean. But

15:26

Atlanta still was just in a pocket.

15:29

I remember j JD running it, and

15:31

I felt like they wasn't respecting him

15:33

as an Atlantian. They was respecting him

15:35

as a New Yorker. I was like, yo,

15:37

bro, he going crazy down

15:39

here. You know, it don't matter where are you're

15:41

from. He representing Atlanta,

15:44

but I felt like they didn't give him his props.

15:46

So I remember specifically

15:50

when Little John came out, it

15:52

being a real like dangerous

15:55

peace in Atlanta. Like it was like a Little

15:57

John came out and crunk started.

16:00

Bro. That's when Atlanta was like we

16:03

it, you know what I mean?

16:04

Because they stuck together one but

16:07

you'll go to their clubs like the Bounce

16:09

at five five nine, Chocolate

16:11

and Autise, and it was just this

16:14

is what it is. We don't want to hear nothing,

16:17

you know what I'm saying. Five five nine, You probably

16:19

won't hear any biggie, any j

16:22

You might hear some old school Tupac. But

16:25

they created a way for themselves

16:28

by saying we are Atlanta

16:31

and this is what it is. And I felt

16:33

like that's where it turned into the juggernaut

16:35

of like Okay to Atlanta,

16:38

that's it, like this is this is it?

16:41

Ayrena.

16:42

Jamaine dupri was definitely key

16:44

to a lot of what happened, especially in Atlanta,

16:46

producing various acts that he introduced

16:49

and as an artist himself, I

16:51

mean back in the days for y'all that don't

16:54

know, you gotta remember, Jermaine Duprix started

16:56

out as a hip hop dancer for

16:58

the group Houdini and was a part

17:00

of one of rap's first big tours.

17:03

So Jermaine was moving fluently

17:06

between New York Atlanta like diplomatic

17:08

style, paved the way for a lot of what would

17:11

then happen in the South.

17:12

Through incredible relationships he

17:14

had built.

17:15

Along the way. And then when Little John and

17:17

that crunk sound drop, Oh my goodness,

17:19

what a big impact that had Coast

17:21

to coast.

17:23

DJ Scream Atlanta mixtape

17:25

legend.

17:26

There's a lot of unity in Atlanta. If

17:28

you look back to a lot of the music videos,

17:31

if you look back to like Bold Crushing that were

17:33

Scared and Killer Mike and Ball

17:35

Crushing, Ti Past Troy and Little

17:37

John and y'all Blood Jermaine,

17:40

all of them what kind of like, you know, rocking

17:42

and I don't know the story. Maybe they were really rocking, maybe

17:44

they weren't. I don't know, but it looked great.

17:48

See, my thing was, there was never

17:50

a more impactful moment.

17:53

To me uttered

17:56

than seeing the wool Tag thing.

17:58

It's like, how can all these black people

18:00

be together and I hate each other? You say,

18:02

like, it's just kind of crazy. You

18:04

have to give respect to the person that brought

18:06

them together. And then we saw with Dungeon

18:09

family, and then we saw we're like death Row Records

18:11

and it may not last forever, but in

18:14

our city, you know what I'm saying. There was a

18:16

city where I think the mentality,

18:18

at least at the time was even

18:20

if I don't like Homie and he's doing

18:22

his day, I ain't gonna hate on even

18:24

if we have a personal thing.

18:28

I can't hate on the fact that his music jam.

18:32

Oh man, it's simple bad

18:34

bass eight

18:37

o a bad bass. Like

18:39

the producers down south. There's

18:43

a lot of producers down south that can sample

18:45

on.

18:45

Their dope at it. You know what I'm saying.

18:48

The producers are East

18:51

Coast, you know, you go back to the classic

18:53

producers. The way they sample is just a match.

18:55

It just gives you a feeling, right, And

18:57

then the big drums in

19:00

the South stay at oh

19:02

eight man, like just

19:04

hear you feel in the car, you feel in the

19:06

club. It's spiritual like you feel at

19:08

eight O eight.

19:09

You just do so for you.

19:11

And I said for a long time, what's

19:13

your cheek?

19:13

Cole atoa? You

19:16

know what I'm saying.

19:16

And now you see different reasons

19:18

tapping into that eight O eight and this in their music.

19:21

I really feel like the AO eight's is tribal.

19:24

It's spiritual. Oh man.

19:26

DJ Scream is so right. I love the sound

19:28

of that eight o waight. That deep Bait's

19:30

definitely a tribal vibe going on rattles

19:33

you to the bone. Marrow Man had a trunk

19:35

of them cars rattling hard boy

19:38

shouty das.

19:39

These artists, they drew inspiration from

19:41

one another, right like most of my

19:44

friends all love a ball and MJG like

19:46

you know, and they are one of the greatest Southern

19:48

hip hop acts ever. Right, you talk

19:51

about it UGK and what UGK meant

19:53

to Outcast and the Dungeon family.

19:55

They all family bun be like we

19:58

all kind of grew up, you know, in and

20:00

we vibed off the same music and some

20:03

of the sounds are very similar. And so I

20:06

think Atlanta, you know, Atlanta helped

20:08

to jump it off. But those guys,

20:10

you know, rightfully so were doing their own

20:12

thing.

20:12

And you know in Houston and.

20:14

The Ghetto Boys, the Ghetto Boys also

20:16

used live instrumentation and had funky

20:18

beats, and so it was just that

20:21

Southern love, that Southern hospitality,

20:23

if you will. And so there's so many similarities

20:26

and synergies there. But I

20:28

think what Atlanta did for the

20:30

Memphiss of the world and the Houstons, I

20:32

think, you know, you think about regional hip

20:34

hop, sometimes they look at they would think, okay,

20:37

Houston, you know, these are regional acts.

20:39

Memphis, that's a Southern regional act,

20:42

but the artists from Atlanta were

20:44

able to break nationwide, I

20:46

think, and it gave some of those

20:48

regional hip hop acts the opportunity

20:51

to break nationally and even globally.

20:54

Globally, Oh Man Sean, you mentioned

20:56

eight Ball and MJG. Man, those one of

20:58

my favorite groups right there. Man

21:00

spade Ja's pimping and that's on just

21:03

like Candy Man.

21:04

Them dudes was so cool.

21:05

I remember when I signed and put out the group Crucial

21:08

Conflict, a big influential

21:10

group out of Chicago that had

21:12

a whole lot of country swag.

21:15

But who would know unless you knew Chicago.

21:17

Well, that a lot of folks when they migrated

21:19

up to Chicago from Alabama

21:21

and places like that, Mississippi, A

21:24

lot of them people in the especially on the West side

21:26

of Chicago, kept a lot of that Southern

21:28

flavor with them and found this incredible

21:30

group, Crucial Conflict, and put them together

21:33

and their first show at the Regal

21:35

was opening for eight Ball and MJG.

21:38

And I was so honored to meet those casts backstage

21:40

and watch Crucial Conflict blow up talking

21:42

about Hey in the middle of the Bond we

21:46

Go Wade from Organized Noise.

21:48

Master P and Baby did become art

21:50

with artists, but they were really master P got

21:52

that the hustle that he did when he

21:54

was talking about the Bay Area, where he was out in the Bay

21:56

Area and figured out that they were selling records

21:59

just in the Bay a carry like records

22:01

that wasn't selling in no other places,

22:03

but they was going to three hundred thousand

22:06

of gold independently and they.

22:07

Was getting rich.

22:08

The fact that he even took that mentality

22:10

to the South and said, who

22:13

cares if we get played on the radio, Let's

22:16

just sell them.

22:16

Let's just tell these records.

22:17

Let's sell these records and get this money and split

22:19

it up and keep doing it.

22:22

I'm very proud of all them.

22:24

Iced tea at the rapper West

22:27

Coast Hip Hop pie in there.

22:28

I think that early, you know, I

22:30

came out, but it's only one rapper. Then

22:33

you got kind of like too short coming through

22:35

bringing the Bay up. Even ghetto

22:37

boys out of Texas, they not really West

22:39

Coast, but they was coming out, but they

22:42

But I think once nw WAD started

22:44

making their moves and then the real bang

22:47

w is where Death Row and all

22:50

that started happening with Pock and Sugar

22:52

and all that Snoop Dog. It was

22:54

just like a title wave of West Coast

22:56

music. Death Row and them just put so many

22:59

good records out. They had so much

23:01

energy going by. Now

23:03

you've got comptus, most wanted, you got all

23:05

of us. It's it's a lot

23:07

of action going on in the West Coast. But I think

23:10

the real Death Row movement really

23:12

was the most powerful one that

23:15

really said, hey, the West Coast got a sound.

23:17

Dre really using a lot

23:19

of George Clinton sounds really

23:22

stamped in. You know, Warren g created

23:24

Chief Funk. We just had a different energy.

23:26

See, the thing of it is, it's like music matches

23:29

the culture, not the culture, but the

23:32

climate of the place.

23:34

So if you listen to New.

23:35

York, New York is Wu Tang

23:37

Clan, New York is the trains,

23:40

New York is static. Like you step

23:42

on the streets, it's like that's New York,

23:45

La, you riding, We're riding. So

23:48

the music's a little more laid back. We got

23:50

palm trees, we got big booty girls. Everything

23:52

is cool until the pops off. That's

23:55

la. Down south, they got a southern

23:57

swag. That's why Usual your goodie mob and

24:00

on them, So it has to match. Hence

24:02

what Russell told me when I started,

24:05

you have to rep where you're from. The

24:07

music has to reflect to live crew.

24:09

It was a Miami Sam that Miami

24:12

basse. They kicked in, all the booty

24:14

shaking and all that was down there. So

24:17

when LA found its real

24:19

place was when Dre and them really

24:21

locked in that depth roaw sound.

24:24

As far as the West Coast hip hop scene

24:26

and what that was.

24:27

You know, my show You're on TV raps

24:29

was important because this is where we got

24:31

to show you and oftentimes go to

24:33

the neighborhoods where these artists lived.

24:35

NWA debuting on my

24:38

show back then easy that whole

24:40

thing and me and Dre. I developed a good

24:42

friendship with him, and he asked

24:44

me to come and direct Snoops first video

24:47

back then for the song What's My Name?

24:49

And that ended up with me spending that whole

24:51

summer out in La crashing

24:54

at Dre's crib because the focus

24:56

was finishing up Snoops album and

24:58

I had to fit to shove his first

25:00

video, so I got to really feel

25:03

that whole LA lifestyle. The

25:05

music was really designed to

25:07

listen well while driving,

25:10

and it was so amazing and listen to records

25:13

like the Chronic and other things that like

25:15

Dre was cooking up while rolling

25:17

from one part of LA to the next

25:19

in those long drives. So it was really important

25:21

and really a first hand

25:24

look at that whole part of hip

25:26

hop blowing up.

25:28

The doc rapper,

25:30

producer, songwriter.

25:32

For me, when it showed up, it's just, you

25:34

know, look rock him says, it

25:36

ain't where you fromis were yet and so it

25:39

came from New York, but it's blongs

25:41

towards all and it's going

25:44

to manifest itself through

25:46

each individual in their own depending

25:49

on what the zip code

25:51

is. But me, I'm

25:54

a Texas dude, Dallas, Texas,

25:56

but I'm a East Coast MC in

25:58

my heart, you know, and so but

26:01

I was raised on West

26:04

Coast music, in hip hop.

26:06

I'm just a hybrid of

26:10

all of those things that that

26:12

that's what kind of made I think it's

26:15

makes me sort of unique coming up

26:17

in this game. But hip hop is a universal

26:20

thing to me. Bro. We all

26:22

respect those boroughs

26:24

where it found its way to us,

26:26

but it's a universal thing, you

26:29

know.

26:29

That's worldwide lie.

26:32

Hip Hop's influence was spread far beyond

26:34

its musical artistry into many of

26:36

the industries and forms of expression.

26:39

With the cultural and worldwide dominance

26:41

of hip hop growing and expanding,

26:44

we would soon see its expression in the world

26:46

of fashion. Hip Hop didn't just

26:48

create a music genre, it defined

26:50

a fashion style. What started

26:53

out as street where urban

26:55

weere evolved into a unique

26:57

style that has become high fashion

27:00

at the highest level, but only

27:02

matched by his attitude and

27:04

confidence.

27:06

Ralph McDaniels, co creator

27:08

of New York's.

27:09

Pioneering show Video Music

27:12

Box and currently the hip hop

27:14

coordinator for the Queen's Public

27:16

Library.

27:17

I think hip hop's impact on lifestyle.

27:20

And the arts,

27:22

and it's always been about just

27:24

do your own thing, you know.

27:25

It's always it's.

27:26

Never been like fit into this,

27:30

you know, even though it is that, but we always

27:32

say do your own thing. And if you if

27:34

you operate like that, you're free to do whatever

27:37

you want to do. Russell Simmons, first

27:39

time I went to a record company, you know,

27:41

sneakers. He had his hat to the back and he had,

27:43

you know, his hoodie on, and I thought

27:45

you were supposed to wear a suit when you walk into one

27:47

of these type of offers and I was

27:49

like, they're not gonna let him in, and he walked

27:52

right in and they were.

27:53

Like, Russ, what up?

27:54

Russ?

27:55

And I was like, so, if you have

27:57

something that people want, you can wear whatever you

28:00

want to wear and look and talk however you want

28:02

to talk if as long as you

28:04

bring them what they want. And that was a game

28:06

changer for me because I was like, I

28:09

didn't want to get dressed up and wear a suit everywhere

28:11

with in hard bottoms, you know.

28:13

I was like, mm hmmm, I'm

28:16

throwing my sneakers on. Were good now And

28:18

that changed everything. And everywhere you went, everybody

28:21

looked like Russell, you know, they had on

28:23

a little pack of sweater or whatever and

28:26

they talked like him. And I was like, this

28:29

dude changed everything, you know, like this

28:31

is how we're gonna act. And I don't know where

28:33

he got it from, but this is how we're

28:35

gonna act. That's what hip hop does.

28:37

Great point, Ralph, you know, the bold and disruptive

28:40

nature of wearing jeans and sneakers

28:43

to a business meeting.

28:44

I spoke volumes back then, and that's

28:46

a part of.

28:47

The disruptive nature at

28:49

the core of hip hop culture

28:52

without question, swagnificent

28:54

for sure. Yes, indeed, Karl

28:57

Kana, fashion designer

29:00

and the godfather of urban street

29:02

wear.

29:02

Hip hop was everything in the fashion world.

29:05

When we talk about fashion and hip

29:07

hop, you know when people talk about who

29:09

started street with, I say, here, what time?

29:11

When we started, I didn't

29:14

really know where

29:16

that my end.

29:16

Game was going to be.

29:18

But I knew I was doing something that was right.

29:21

I knew I was doing something that's fulfilling. I knew

29:23

that I was doing something because when we went to the stores,

29:25

we didn't see any of our people being represented to

29:28

the fashion world. But we spent all our money,

29:30

me and all my Frederick always was broke. We

29:32

had our fresh clothes. So this thing

29:34

called fashion and stink care hip hop

29:36

was kept calling our name. And I say two

29:38

people all the time. Sometimes destiny is calling

29:40

your line, but you got to pick up.

29:42

The call right.

29:44

So when I saw

29:47

how much money he was spending, and

29:49

I saw my dad, how I got into fashion.

29:52

My dad used to get his close made by Taylor,

29:55

my dad's in Panama. He won his clothes to fit

29:57

in a certain way. He used to go to the last

29:59

street buys, Baby Kin then take it back to flap

30:01

Wish, So I tail and Flappish Telling used

30:03

to make it then, so I kind of saw the

30:05

process of making your own clothing and

30:07

that's what it inspired me to start making my own clothes.

30:10

Or when my dad my mom got divorced

30:12

in East New York, a lot of my friends

30:14

used to shop at the same stores, and if

30:17

I had something fresh, I'm not going to tell.

30:19

You where I got it from.

30:19

I don't want you wearing the same thing I died, right, So there's

30:21

a lot of competition.

30:22

Does those secrets? You know what I'm saying.

30:24

And then like I remember all day I was

30:26

thinking, I said, damn, but I make an alpha. My dad's

30:28

tailor. None of these dudes what happened, aren't

30:31

sisked. My dad can make an outfit. He was kind of surprised

30:33

of the accident. He's like, you want to make an outfit?

30:35

I was like, yeah.

30:36

So I went to the land, said, well, five year olds of linen,

30:39

and I brought it back to his tailor and I told

30:41

him I wanted a Jeane suit style

30:43

made out of linen. I kind of designed when I wanted,

30:46

but I told him I want the pants led to be bigger.

30:48

But back then we will look at a bigger clothing, but

30:50

it wasn't in the stores. I'm saying it had

30:52

no designer was making baggy closed. So

30:55

once I told him that, he said, shung's on orbit of the legs

30:57

for you. So when I wore the outfit around,

31:00

it's like, man, where'd you get that from? You get a fund

31:03

So you know, I ain't telling them about my tailor,

31:05

right, I said, if you want, While'll make you one. So

31:07

I used to have all the hustlers coming up to giving

31:09

me was of cash and to

31:11

buy my outfice that I had on. They wanted every

31:13

color. So that's kind of how street

31:16

gear was starting. That's kind of how I got into the business,

31:18

selling to the hustlers first, and

31:20

then it's started transpired from there.

31:22

Fascinating to hear carled Kana's origin.

31:25

Man, you know, as a true pioneer

31:28

of hip hop fashion. You started with

31:30

cutting sew in the same way Dapper

31:32

Dan did in Harlem. Although DApp

31:34

was, you know, cutting leather and

31:37

doing incredible designs, unique

31:39

designs using Gucci, Louis

31:41

Baton and MCM's

31:43

logos. His original clientele.

31:46

Just like yours car with them street corner

31:48

hustlers and those rappers that was about

31:50

to blow up.

31:52

Kid Capri, Grammy Award winning

31:54

DJ and producer.

31:56

You go back to right DMC for

31:59

duc the Didas suit

32:01

didas sneaking with with no laces in it?

32:04

When did the Garden put the sneak up? Twenty

32:07

thousand people had to sneak of. Adidas

32:09

gives them a deal back. So you

32:11

got Adidas that been Adidas forever coming

32:14

to a hip hop constant and seeing this something

32:16

they've never seen before and a whole

32:18

Arenas holding they sneak.

32:19

Up who did it first before

32:22

them?

32:23

And this is in the eighties, so

32:25

it always been a part of

32:28

hip hop since then. You were seeing fat

32:30

farm rock aware, you

32:32

know, like you see these things, They're always

32:35

been there. Cross colors, this hip

32:37

hop fashion, Carl Kana hip hop

32:39

fashion, timber Land became

32:41

hip hop fashion, Tommy Hill

32:43

Finny hip hop fashion. Kelly

32:46

Hanson them saying.

32:48

All these things became Gucci,

32:51

Louie to.

32:51

Talk or hip

32:54

hop fashion.

32:56

It's not hip hop fashion.

32:57

Apociate all those but we

32:59

may become that like

33:02

Feliz, before people knew

33:04

with feelis Feeve was out way years

33:08

white people tennis plays. We was wearing Feliz

33:10

before anybody knew what felives were, years

33:12

before they wove. And

33:14

when Felis came out, they

33:17

thought it was a new thing. Balley been out,

33:19

Pack Hicks been out. It's just that it

33:22

came to the hood later. But I

33:24

was wearing all.

33:24

That Kwime rapper

33:27

and record producer.

33:28

Hip Hop has been around long enough to now

33:30

that the major designers are

33:33

most likely hip hop fans or

33:36

understand the culture of hip

33:38

hop in their DNA as opposed

33:40

to thirty years ago, it's some guy that

33:43

designed ball gowns and don't understand

33:45

what street where it is at all. And

33:47

we've also incorporated so many other styles

33:49

that we've like gumbo, We've

33:51

mixed everything in and everything

33:54

is now considered hip

33:56

hop fashion, and it's just very interesting.

33:58

I think again, the quick answer or as fashion

34:01

would be extremely boring and extremely

34:04

how do I put this without offending

34:06

because I don't want to do that, extremely boring

34:09

and extremely effeminate. You understand

34:11

what I'm saying. There wouldn't be any

34:13

extra forms of masculinity in

34:16

fashion without

34:19

hip hop fashion. I think hip hop brings

34:22

that grunginess to

34:24

certain fashion line that probably

34:26

would not have been there, if that makes

34:28

sense. And it's weird because hip hop fashion

34:31

is so ingrained in our culture. You

34:33

know, you could take this like this Ralph Laurentz

34:35

sweater and I could wear it a certain way

34:37

and it could be hip hop. But somebody

34:40

could say, no, that's college fashion.

34:43

You know, that's collegiate fashion.

34:45

But yeah, but it could be twisted here.

34:48

That's the greatness about hip hop fashion. It could

34:50

be twisted in so many different directions.

34:52

You could take ball gowns, and you could take college

34:55

wear, and you could take black tie wear

34:57

and flip it in a way where you turn

34:59

it into hip hop fashion. So now

35:02

it's like, you can't. I don't

35:04

think there's any such thing as just like a definitive

35:07

quote unquote hip hop thing. It's

35:10

a spin on whatever you already

35:12

have that makes it hip hop. And know

35:14

that spin that is in the DNA now

35:18

makes fashion extremely

35:21

interesting.

35:22

Carl Cannot Cross Colors played a

35:24

major major role in the success

35:26

of Carl Cannot.

35:27

Okay, the owner cross Clus's

35:29

name is Carl Jones T J.

35:30

Walker.

35:31

All a lot to them.

35:32

You know, Carl had the infrastructure

35:34

set up. They had the customer service,

35:36

the shipping, the receiving. A black owned company,

35:38

they were on their grind and what calar

35:41

can I need is what they had. We need the infrastructure

35:43

that they have, they had something I needed

35:45

and we was it into a system as well too, because

35:48

Cross Colors preferred to have quark

35:50

Can I be on their team as opposed to me, to me

35:52

being their competition, Okay, they

35:54

didn't want me to be somebody else who compete against

35:56

them. It's better to have two black owned

35:59

companies together, umbrella and we

36:01

could dominate together. So together we

36:03

were a lot more powered for so Cross

36:05

Colors helped set the infrastructure and

36:07

we came in and we took the streets and

36:09

get Cross Colors to the street fun that they

36:12

needed and they brand because that's what we wropped

36:14

the streets. We knew how to get the hustles

36:16

in our cold and we knew how to get this stuff in every

36:18

inter city store in every hood. That was

36:20

our main focus vocals on inner city stores

36:22

in every hood.

36:23

That's all the hustles shop and that's how hold they need to

36:25

be.

36:25

So we have a philosophy on how we wanted to

36:27

promote and distribute our brand.

36:29

I feel like the call cannot grand.

36:31

What we've done is that will be shown that you

36:33

could be yell and compete against the big boys and

36:36

compete against big corporations is out there

36:38

now. That being said, the rappers

36:41

they have to begin for once in terms of exposure

36:44

and things like that. So I felt like

36:46

we played our role. I

36:48

honestly feel a papa doesn't inspire

36:50

people that you could become a businessman.

36:52

That you don't have to be a rapper.

36:54

Right, we showed that you could just other ways you could

36:56

get big and this business don't happen because everyone the

36:58

chances of you being successfu raptist him and

37:00

now there's a very few successful Baptists

37:02

back in the days. Right, he had a hand ten

37:06

twenty the most, right what his

37:08

other abbeys Other ways you become successful as

37:10

business and olding became

37:13

a major major force that even every rapper

37:15

started doing their own colt rhine as well too. They

37:17

saw how powerful and how big this business

37:20

was out influential they were at the same time.

37:22

So I feel like the calal cannot grant

37:24

inspired people just on the business level to be young

37:27

black and be successful and

37:29

could people with the big dolls. I think they inspired a lot

37:31

of corporations yet to look at hip hop

37:33

and a whole different manner. They're seeing how big this thing

37:35

could get. I mean, look at the owner's sketchers.

37:37

He saw he came to me, wanted to clowk not

37:39

footworth. He knew nothing about hip

37:41

hop, but he saw the influest that we had on the marketplace.

37:44

He wanted he wanted in. So it shows

37:46

you that how influential this whole movement

37:48

has been overly.

37:49

Is don Cannon.

37:51

I've heard from ten years old to

37:54

this year that it's just a

37:56

fat.

37:58

It's just a fat. It's gone way. They

38:00

ain't gonna y'all.

38:01

Ain't y'all gonna be listening to something else when you fifteen,

38:03

something else, when you twenty twenty five,

38:06

thirty forty came.

38:07

I was like, you're

38:09

like, yeah, you know what I mean.

38:11

To the point where I when

38:13

I told the story about my mom saying hip hop died

38:16

in nineteen ninety seven to

38:18

now her listening to hip

38:21

hop records and asking me to make her playlist

38:23

of hip hop records.

38:25

My au Dinna Rest in Peace was a huge

38:27

Tupac.

38:27

Fan, and that came years

38:30

after saying rap

38:33

wasn't gonna be there.

38:34

She was just always cool with it.

38:35

But everybody's saying that rap was

38:37

it gonna be there, or hip hop was gonna be there.

38:40

We're like, look, we're fifty years

38:42

old. We half a century. Bro, What

38:45

in the world, how did this happen? When

38:47

it's not gonna die. It's a

38:50

regenerating organ This joint just keep

38:52

going, Bro, like we're gonna have down

38:54

spots, We're gonna come up.

38:55

We're gonna down spots come up. Like.

38:57

It's just it's influenced. Everything influenced.

39:01

People don't do enough studying. But R,

39:03

R and B records are hip hop records. Taylor

39:05

Swift beats and Katie Perry beats

39:08

their hip hop beats.

39:09

That's in a whole nother genre. We

39:12

got country, which

39:14

was known a lot of.

39:17

It was like, no, it's hip

39:19

hop. Gospel,

39:22

which was also any former hip

39:24

hop was a secular space. Now

39:26

guess what it's in gospel.

39:29

Music, you know what I'm saying. So it's like we

39:31

influenced everything.

39:32

We influenced, Bro, We influenced

39:34

the touchdowns in football,

39:37

you know what I mean? Every dance they doing now

39:39

it's all hip hop influenced, rap

39:42

influenced, basketball dunks

39:44

and swag.

39:46

Hip hop influenced, you

39:48

know what I mean.

39:49

The tables have turned from hustlers and

39:51

how they get their money. It's

39:53

based on hip hop, you know what I mean.

39:56

It's what Elliott

39:58

made for the artists.

40:01

You know what I'm saying. You turn on

40:04

commercials for TV

40:06

salesmen, they're using hip

40:08

hop influence. Sports Center, you

40:10

turn it on, it's hip hop influence. So it's

40:12

definitely beyond

40:15

one hundred years. I can see, like

40:17

it's just it's gonna go like it's just

40:19

the influences.

40:21

On the next episode of the fifty Years

40:23

of Hip Hop podcast series, you know

40:25

it, it's time for ladies first. That's

40:27

right from Queen latifas you and it

40:30

Y all the way to what Cardi B's.

40:32

Been up to lately.

40:33

Women MC's who have played a strong

40:36

part in development of hip hop culture

40:38

from the very beginning. They continue

40:40

to rule their queendoms and make the moves

40:43

that need to be made. We're

40:45

gonna explore the evolution of the women of

40:47

hip hop for a variety of topics, from

40:49

the founding mothers to the evolution

40:51

of women in rap today, and

40:53

through all this success and failures

40:56

and triumph and turbulence, we want

40:58

to know, can hip hop outlok most

41:00

of us and make it to the century

41:03

mark?

41:04

Haha. We're gonna get into all

41:06

that, baby.

41:07

Fifty years of hip hop podcast series

41:09

Rose on Roll Strong. This

41:11

episode has been executive produced by Dolly

41:14

s. Bishop, host it and produced

41:16

by your Boy five five Freddy. Produced

41:19

by Aaron A. King Howard. Edit,

41:21

mixed sound by Dwayne Crawford, music

41:24

scoring by Trey Jones, Talent

41:26

booking by Nicole Spence,