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trade has been severely disrupted in the

1:43

Red Sea by

1:46

a dangerous militia in Yemen who

1:49

the U.S. Navy is trying to stop. World

2:00

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2:02

are engaged in combat. When I say

2:04

engaged in combat, where they're getting shot

2:06

at, where they're getting shot at, and

2:08

shooting back. Beautiful

2:14

kids, Andrew. Good, good. I'm

2:16

gonna blame you, Andrew, if they don't do it.

2:19

Can you imagine the repercussions on

2:21

myself, my family? If

2:24

it was me, Andrew

2:26

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2:28

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2:30

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2:32

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2:34

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2:37

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2:39

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2:41

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2:59

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Cecilia Vega. I'm Nora O'Donnell.

3:27

I'm Scott Pelli. Those stories

3:29

and more tonight on 60 Minutes.

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to www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org. After

5:01

Hamas launched its deadly terrorist attack

5:03

in Israel this past October and

5:06

Israel began its unrelenting war in

5:08

Gaza in response, President Biden

5:10

warned Iran and its proxies in the Middle

5:12

East to stay out of it. One

5:15

of those groups decided instead that it was

5:17

all in. That group is

5:19

a Shia militia from Yemen known as the

5:21

Houthis. Yemen is the poorest country

5:23

in the Middle East, but its 1,200 miles of

5:26

coastline leads in

5:28

and out of the Suez Canal, the

5:30

primary route by sea between Europe

5:32

and Asia, responsible for a

5:34

trillion dollars a year in global

5:36

trade. So when the Houthis

5:39

began to attack commercial ships in

5:41

solidarity with Hamas, President Biden

5:43

faced a crisis in the Red Sea and

5:46

sent the U.S. Navy into its first major

5:48

fight of the 21st century. Our

5:55

report begins not on the water, but

5:57

in the air. We're

6:01

from a U.S. Navy reconnaissance plane 500

6:03

feet above the Red Sea. We

6:07

were the first journalists to see the

6:09

types of commercial ships the Houthis have

6:11

targeted and the U.S. warships sent to

6:13

protect them. We are not

6:15

going to let the whole district hostage.

6:21

Vice Admiral Brad Cooper is the U.S.

6:23

military's deputy commander in the Middle East.

6:27

After October 7th, as the Navy's

6:29

top officer in the region, he

6:31

ordered the fifth fleet into an area

6:34

it typically sailed right through. How

6:37

many sailors are now in the Red Sea? We've

6:39

got about seven miles right now. It's

6:42

a large commitment. What makes

6:44

the Red Sea one of the most important waterways

6:47

in the world? 15 percent

6:49

of global faith was exactly who the

6:51

Red Sea is, so keeping

6:53

these hot waterways open is critical

6:56

in the core commitment the United

6:58

States has in the strategic perspective

7:00

maintaining the people of commerce. The

7:03

Red Sea is about the size

7:05

of California, in the north, the

7:07

Suez Canal. In the

7:09

south, the 20-mile-wide strait known in

7:11

Arabic as the Bab el-Mandeb, or

7:14

in English as the Gate of Greece. It

7:19

was near there three months ago that

7:21

a Japanese chartered ship built to carry

7:23

cars was hijacked by

7:25

the Houthis, who posted this video.

7:28

Since then, according to the Pentagon, the Houthis

7:30

have attacked at least 45 ships, and

7:34

the U.S. Navy has shot down more than 95

7:36

drones and missiles fired by the militia that

7:40

controls one-third of Yemen, including

7:42

the capital, Sanaa. As

7:45

Houthi attacks intensified in December

7:47

and January, the world's largest

7:49

container ship companies all

7:51

made the decision to avoid the

7:53

Suez and go around Africa's Cape of

7:56

Good Hope, adding as much as a

7:58

month of travel time and a half to two months of travel. and

8:00

a million dollars in fuel. U.S.

8:03

Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell told 60 Minutes

8:06

two weeks ago the diversions pose a risk

8:08

to the global economy and in the near

8:10

term... That's going to affect Europe much more

8:12

than it's going to affect us. Tesla

8:17

and Volvo were both forced to

8:19

suspend some European production last month

8:21

due to supply chain disruptions.

8:24

There are still ships going through

8:26

the Suez, mostly smaller, regional carriers

8:28

that are willing to run the current

8:30

risks of the Red Sea. How

8:33

much of that traffic has it

8:35

been reduced by half? It's

8:37

been reduced on any given

8:39

day, sometimes 40 percent, but it's clearly flowing.

8:42

And I think in many respects it's flowing

8:44

because of the defensive umbrella that we put

8:46

over the southern Red Sea, pretty poor. The

8:53

official name of that defensive

8:55

umbrella is Operation Prosperity Guardian.

8:58

It's a coalition of more than 20

9:00

nations that includes the United Kingdom. But

9:03

most of the ships, aircraft and

9:05

firepower... ...are

9:09

coming from America. I

9:19

think you have to go back to World War II

9:21

where you have ships who are engaged in

9:23

combat. When I say engaged in combat, where

9:26

they're getting shot at, where they're getting shot

9:28

at and shooting back. Initially,

9:31

the Houthis, backed by Iran, stated they

9:34

would only shoot at ships linked to

9:36

Israel... ...in

9:39

support of the Palestinian people and

9:41

of forces cease-fire in Gaza. Their

9:45

ultimate political aims, as well as

9:47

their actual aim, appears to be

9:49

less precise. They have fired

9:51

at ships tied to dozens of nations.

9:57

The Houthis' official motto is, God is

9:59

Great. Great, death to America, death

10:02

to Israel, a curse

10:04

upon the Jews, victory to

10:06

Islam. While their slogan may

10:08

not be new, their

10:10

weapons and tactics are, according to

10:13

Admiral Cooper. The

10:15

Houthis are the first entity in

10:17

the history of the world to use anti-ship ballistic missiles

10:20

ever firing against shipping. No

10:23

one has ever used an anti-ship ballistic

10:25

missile, certainly against commercial shipping,

10:27

much less against U.S. Navy ships.

10:30

Admiral Cooper took us inside the

10:32

Fifth Fleet's command center at naval

10:34

headquarters in Bahrain. I

10:37

think there's a sense that the Houthis are sort of like

10:39

a ragtag kind of terrorist group. Yeah, yeah,

10:41

yeah. That can be a sense, and

10:43

it'll be a false sense, and we would be unwise

10:46

to consider that. You know, 10 years of

10:48

being supplied by the

10:50

Iranians, very sophisticated advanced weapons.

10:53

They have hit a few ships. What

10:55

of those targets, how many of them

10:58

are directed at U.S. naval assets? The overwhelming

11:00

majority over these last couple months have

11:02

been directed at internationally flagged

11:04

merchant ships. A small percentage of them

11:06

are directly at U.S. Navy ships. What

11:09

kind of damage would one of those anti-ship ballistic

11:11

missiles do on a commercial ship? Well, let's go right

11:13

here. This is exactly what it looks like. The

11:16

Houthis attacked it, and you can see, in practical terms,

11:18

what the damage was. The

11:22

Houthis also have inexpensive

11:24

Iranian-designed attack drones in their arsenal,

11:27

like the 15-foot-wide Samad, with a

11:29

range of up to 1,100 miles.

11:33

Some of their anti-ship ballistic missiles

11:35

resemble the Iranian weapons seen

11:37

here and can hit targets up to

11:39

about 300 miles away. If

11:42

there is an anti-ship ballistic missile launch, this ballistic

11:44

missile travels at about Mach 5, about

11:47

3,000 miles an hour. How

11:49

much time is there between a

11:51

Houthi launch and then it could reach

11:54

a U.S. ship? to

12:00

15 seconds to make a decision that we're going to ship that down.

12:03

It's intense. To

12:06

speak to one of those destroyer captains deployed

12:08

in the southern Red Sea, we

12:10

took a five-mile helicopter

12:12

ride from the USS

12:15

Dwight D. Eisenhower over

12:17

to the USS Mason,

12:19

where we met Commander Justin

12:21

Smith. The destroyer is

12:23

one of four American warships in the

12:25

area that have shot down more than

12:27

a dozen of the Houthis' anti-ship

12:29

ballistic missiles. How

12:31

quickly can you see those? Anywhere

12:34

from one to two minutes out. And

12:36

providing me that decision space to give me

12:38

the nine to 15 seconds as

12:40

the captain of this ship on what my

12:42

actions are going to be. You

12:44

made it sound like that's a lot of time, nine to

12:46

15 seconds. It doesn't sound like much. It seems

12:49

very small and very short in duration, but

12:51

my crew has that ready proficiency to be

12:53

able to engage. We

12:57

learned that so far in this crisis,

13:00

the Navy has fired about a hundred

13:02

of their standard surface-to-air missiles that

13:04

can cost as much as $4 million each.

13:09

The decision to fire one at

13:11

an incoming Houthi missile or kamikaze

13:13

attack drone is made in the

13:15

ship's Combat Information Center, or CIC.

13:20

We can be attacked at any time and any place.

13:23

That's where Commander Smith showed us a

13:25

video of the USS Mason doing just

13:27

that. We see an intercept here followed

13:29

by a quick explosion showing

13:32

a successful engagement. The

13:34

weapon systems that you have on

13:36

board here, and specifically the standard

13:38

missiles, those are expensive weapons. And

13:41

you're using them to shoot down $10,000 drones.

13:46

Is that worth it? I don't think you can put a

13:48

price tag on safety

13:50

and the defense of our sailors on

13:52

board. You have to be right 100% of

13:54

the time. They

13:57

just have to get right once. A

14:01

day before our visit to the

14:03

USS Mason, about 100 miles away,

14:05

another U.S. destroyer needed its weapon

14:07

of last resort. A defensive

14:10

cannon called a C-Wiz to shoot

14:12

down a Hoothey cruise missile that

14:14

was a mile out and closing

14:16

fast. Most

14:19

U.S. warships have one of these

14:21

gun systems, seen here in exercises.

14:25

The USS Dwight D. Eisenhower caused two.

14:30

On the ship with its 5,000 sailors

14:32

and more than 75 aircraft,

14:39

strike group commander Rear Admiral

14:41

Mark Meege told us the

14:43

Hoothees have proven to be

14:45

resourceful adversaries. There are

14:47

the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance drones

14:49

that the Hoothees are launching. How

14:52

have you seen them use? When

14:54

we first got to this area,

14:57

that we would detect the drone

15:00

and then all of a sudden, you know, 10 minutes

15:02

later or 5 minutes later there

15:05

was an attack. In other words, a ballistic

15:07

missile being launched or a

15:09

cruise missile being launched. And we've

15:11

deduced over time that they

15:13

are obviously using these drones

15:16

to perfect their targeting solution.

15:19

Once the war in Israel and

15:21

Gaza began, other Iranian-backed militias have

15:23

targeted U.S. forces in Jordan, Iraq

15:25

and Syria with at least 170

15:28

attacks that injured 183 service members

15:34

and killed three. Admiral

15:38

Meege has told us so far the

15:40

USS Eisenhower has only been focused on

15:42

the Hoothees in the southern Red Sea.

15:45

On January 11th, its planes have

15:47

been regularly striking their launch sites

15:49

in Yemen, as

15:52

have U.S. destroyers. The

15:55

U.S. also conducted a cyber attack on

15:57

an Iranian spy ship that was gathering

15:59

in intelligence in and around the Red Sea.

16:02

But the Houthi attacks keep coming.

16:05

Could the Houthis do this without

16:07

Iranian support? No.

16:10

For a decade, the Iranians have been

16:12

supplying the Houthis. They've been re-supplying them.

16:14

They're re-supplying them. As we sit

16:17

here right now at sea,

16:19

we know this is happening. They're advising them,

16:21

and they're providing targeting information. This is crystal

16:23

clear. Are there

16:25

members of Iran's elite

16:28

Revolutionary Guard Corps that are actually

16:30

on the ground in Yemen providing

16:33

intelligence and targeting? The

16:35

Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps is inside

16:37

Yemen, and they are serving side by side

16:39

with the Houthis, advising them

16:42

and providing target information. And

16:44

so what have we done to degrade that

16:46

capability? Yeah, that will obviously end

16:48

up being a policy decision. Our role at

16:50

this point is to simply be ready and

16:53

continue to be aggressive

16:55

in exercising our right to

16:57

self-defense. Do these offensive

17:00

U.S. airstrikes against these Houthi

17:02

targets in Yemen risk

17:04

escalating this conflict?

17:07

Yeah, I don't think so. We're targeting

17:09

those platforms that are targeting us. If

17:12

we were to look at the calendar,

17:14

right, since October 7th,

17:17

surging of U.S. forces

17:20

to the Red Sea, and

17:22

yet they keep firing back. They

17:25

keep seeming to be opportunistic

17:27

in their response. Is

17:30

the U.S. Navy a fifth fleet?

17:32

Are the actions having an effect? It's

17:35

very clear that we are degrading

17:37

their capability, and

17:40

every single day they attempt to attack

17:42

us, we're eliminating and disrupting them in

17:44

ways that are meaningful and I do

17:46

believe have an impact. How long

17:48

does this go on? Well, I have a pretty

17:50

clear endgame in mind, and that

17:52

is the restoration of the free flow of commerce

17:54

and safe navigation in the southern Red Sea. Hey,

18:03

I'm Jamie. And I'm Justina. And we're the hosts

18:05

of Just So You Know, a podcast where we

18:07

get to the bottom of suspicious stories and outright

18:09

lies we're being told by companies that profit off

18:12

of animals. You think Elon Musk

18:14

is shady? We see our episode about

18:16

his sinister brain experiments. First he ruined

18:18

Twitter, now he's coming for your actual

18:20

brain. We've also got one about

18:22

that time I stormed the runway at New York Fashion

18:25

Week to protest Coach's leather handbag. Yeah, I heard they

18:27

were happy about that. I couldn't tell you, they're not

18:29

talking to me at the moment. And we're just getting

18:31

started. In the coming weeks, we're going to blow

18:33

the lid off of everything from shady

18:35

pet dealers to monkey's health hostage by

18:37

coconut milk companies to the astonishing secret

18:39

behind the no animals were harmed message

18:41

you see at the end of movies.

18:43

And so much more. We'll hope you

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join us for this surprisingly fun journey

18:48

full of strange characters, secretive companies and

18:50

a whole world of stuff they really

18:52

don't want you to know. Subscribe to

18:54

Just So You Know wherever you get

18:56

your podcasts and look for our new

18:58

episodes every Thursday. Just so you know, it's a pizza pie.

19:28

Robert Hanson is available on the Wondering

19:30

app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get

19:32

your podcasts. The

19:34

month after the presidential election in

19:36

2020, Democratic and Republican electors representing

19:38

the candidate who won the popular

19:40

vote in their states gathered

19:43

across the country to formally cast electoral

19:45

votes for president. But

19:47

in seven states that Joe Biden won,

19:50

Republican electors got together anyway and cast

19:52

phony votes for Donald Trump. They've

19:55

become known as fake electors. And according

19:57

to federal prosecutors, they were part of

19:59

a... plan to overturn the election,

20:02

orchestrated by pro-Trump attorneys with

20:04

Trump's support. State

20:06

criminal charges have been filed against fake

20:09

electors in Georgia, Michigan, and Nevada. Wisconsin's

20:12

fake electors haven't been charged, and

20:14

several weeks ago, one of them, Andrew

20:16

Hitt, an attorney and former chairman of

20:18

the state Republican Party, agreed

20:20

to sit down with us to

20:23

explain how he says he and

20:25

Wisconsin's other GOP electors were tricked

20:27

by the Trump campaign. You

20:30

were head of the Republican Party in Wisconsin. Were

20:32

you a big Trump supporter? I

20:34

worked tirelessly for him. I,

20:36

you know, day and night. Let's put it

20:38

together for the President of the United States

20:40

one more time! Often

20:43

times, phone calls would start by 6 o'clock in

20:45

the morning and wouldn't end until 10.30

20:47

at night. I

20:49

did everything I possibly could.

20:51

The Wisconsin Republican Party chairman

20:54

Andrew Hitt. Andrew Hitt

20:56

was often singled out by President Trump

20:58

at rallies in Wisconsin. Andrew Hitt! Andrew

21:00

Hitt! How are we doing, Andrew? Gonna

21:02

win this, they've gotta win it! But

21:06

Trump didn't win in Wisconsin. He lost to

21:08

Joe Biden by some 20,700 votes. The

21:12

Trump campaign appealed, challenging more than 200,000

21:14

absentee ballots on technical grounds

21:18

in two Democratic counties. To

21:20

count the lawful votes, Trump

21:22

won Wisconsin by a good

21:24

margin. That was false. What

21:26

he said was false. The Trump campaign

21:29

won the votes in Dane County and

21:31

Milwaukee County passed. Did you support that

21:33

idea? It wasn't something that I was

21:35

comfortable with. Dane County and Milwaukee County

21:37

in Wisconsin are the most liberal counties,

21:39

the majority of

21:42

the black population in Wisconsin live in those two

21:44

counties. Correct. Correct.

21:47

Personally, you did not believe all those absentee ballots

21:49

should be thrown out. Well, I voted that way.

21:52

You know, I voted that way. You didn't

21:54

think your own vote should be thrown out? On

21:56

November 30th, Wisconsin's Democratic governor,

21:59

Tony Evers, certified Joe Biden's

22:01

victory, authorizing the state's

22:03

Democratic electors to gather at the

22:05

state capitol on December 14 to

22:08

cast their electoral votes for Biden.

22:10

But days earlier, Andrew Hitt says he

22:13

received a call from the Republican National

22:15

Committee. What was the reach out to

22:17

you? Can we get a list of

22:19

the Wisconsin Republican electors? That made you

22:21

suspicious. It did. I

22:23

was already concerned that they

22:26

were going to try to

22:28

say that the Democratic electors

22:31

were not proper in Wisconsin because of

22:34

fraud. You didn't believe there was anybody's right to

22:36

run. No, and I was very involved, obviously,

22:38

in the election. Hitt was

22:40

one of 10 Republicans nominated to be

22:42

an elector if Trump won in Wisconsin.

22:45

On December 4, he says he

22:47

was advised by the state GOP's

22:49

outside legal counsel to gather the

22:51

other Republican electors on December 14

22:53

at the capitol and, as

22:55

a contingency, signed a document claiming

22:58

Trump won the state in case

23:00

a court overturned the election in

23:02

Wisconsin. In case the legal arguments

23:04

that the Trump team is making

23:08

actually win in court. Right. And

23:10

I remember asking, how can this

23:12

be that a court overturns the election? And

23:15

just because we don't meet and fill

23:17

out this paperwork on the 14th, that

23:19

Trump would forfeit Wisconsin.

23:23

And the legal analysis back was

23:25

the statute's very clear. The electors

23:27

have to meet at noon at

23:29

the capitol in Wisconsin on December

23:31

14. That morning,

23:33

the state Supreme Court, in a 4-3

23:35

ruling, rejected the Trump campaign's attempt to

23:38

throw out more than 200,000 votes. But

23:42

Andrew Hitt says he and the other

23:44

Republican electors met anyway to cast fake

23:46

votes because he'd been told the Trump

23:49

campaign would appeal to the U.S. Supreme

23:51

Court. Kenneth Chesbrough, a

23:53

pro-Trump attorney who was an alleged

23:55

architect of the fake electors' plan,

23:57

showed up to watch. specific

24:00

advice from our lawyers that these documents

24:02

were meaningless unless a court said they

24:05

had meeting. You were deciding

24:07

to sign this document as an elector

24:09

and getting the other electors to sign

24:11

this document based on a court challenge

24:14

that you yourself don't believe has legitimacy.

24:17

I wouldn't say it doesn't have legitimacy.

24:19

That's different than not personally agreeing with

24:21

it. You personally don't

24:23

believe that legitimate votes by Wisconsin

24:25

residents should be tossed out and

24:27

yet you are signing a document

24:30

in support of a lawsuit which

24:32

is alleging just that. And

24:35

if I didn't do that and

24:38

the court did throw

24:40

out those votes, it

24:42

would have been solely my fault that

24:45

Trump wouldn't have won Wisconsin. Ah,

24:48

beautiful kids, Andrew. Good, good.

24:50

I'm going to blame you, Andrew, if they don't do

24:52

it. Can you imagine

24:54

the repercussions on myself, my

24:56

family, if it was

24:58

me, Andrew Hitt,

25:01

who prevented Donald Trump from winning

25:03

Wisconsin? You're saying you were scared?

25:06

Absolutely. Scared of some

25:09

supporters in your state? It

25:12

was not a safe time. If

25:14

my lawyer is right and

25:17

the whole reason Trump loses Wisconsin is

25:19

because of me, I would

25:22

be scared to death. Signing

25:24

legal documents of such consequence that

25:27

you don't believe in and you

25:29

don't believe the underlying reason for

25:31

the documents, it's not exactly a

25:33

profile and courage. No. How

25:36

do you feel about that now? I

25:39

mean, terrible. If

25:41

I knew what I knew now,

25:43

I wouldn't have done it. It was kept

25:45

from us that there

25:48

was this alternate scheme, alternate

25:50

motive. That

25:52

alleged alternate scheme is a prominent part

25:54

of special counsel Jack Smith's indictment of

25:57

the former president. Charging Donald

25:59

J. Trump was conspiring

26:02

to defraud the United States. According

26:04

to Smith, what began as a

26:06

legal strategy in Wisconsin evolved into

26:08

a corrupt plan involving six other

26:11

states as well. Donald

26:13

J. Trump of the state of Florida, number

26:15

11. Arizona,

26:17

Georgia, Nevada, New

26:20

Mexico, Pennsylvania and Michigan. He said

26:22

we can't enter. Or some of

26:24

the fake electors couldn't convince police

26:26

to let them into the Capitol.

26:28

We're electors. We're electors. The

26:32

electors already hear the event checked in. Jack

26:34

Smith cites this December 6 memo

26:36

written by Ken Chesbrough detailing

26:38

ways the Trump campaign can prevent Biden

26:41

from amassing 270 electoral votes on January

26:43

6. Smith

26:46

alleges the multistate scheme was designed

26:49

to create a fake controversy and

26:52

positioned the vice president to

26:54

supplant legitimate electors with Trump's

26:56

fake electors and certify him

26:58

as president. By

27:00

January 4, according to internal emails,

27:02

some in the Trump campaign were

27:04

panicking. They believed the fake

27:06

electors' documents from Michigan and Wisconsin

27:08

hadn't arrived in Vice President Mike

27:10

Pence's Senate office. Your colleague

27:13

texted you, freaking Trump idiots want someone

27:15

to fly original electoral papers to the

27:17

Senate president. You wrote, this is just

27:19

nuts. What was nuts about

27:21

it? I mean, we

27:24

have the certification coming on the 6th. How

27:28

do you not have the paperwork? I mean,

27:30

you've said that you only went along with

27:32

this plan to preserve Trump's candidacy in the

27:35

event of a court ruling. January

27:37

4, just two days before January 6,

27:39

did you really think that was still

27:41

possible? Well, remember the Wisconsin

27:43

Supreme Court had been appealed. And

27:46

so January 4, it seemed

27:48

like, yeah, it's possible that a

27:50

much more conservative United States Supreme

27:53

Court could overturn a 4-3

27:55

decision. They

28:00

picked Alicia Gunther, then

28:02

a 23-year-old law school student

28:04

working part-time for Wisconsin's Republican

28:06

Party. I was on break

28:08

from law school and wanted to make some

28:10

extra money to pay for books and worked

28:12

for the party for my month off of

28:14

school. So on January 4th, I got

28:16

a call from the executive director of the Republican Party

28:19

of Wisconsin since I was helping out at the

28:21

time. What did you think when you got the text? At

28:23

first I didn't know what it was and then

28:25

he followed up and asked that the Trump campaign

28:27

wanted these papers flown out to D.C. because they

28:29

had gotten lost in the mail. Gunther

28:32

says she picked up the papers here

28:34

at the state party headquarters and on

28:37

January 5th flew to Washington. So

28:39

this is the email... She showed us her

28:41

email chain with Ken Chesbrough and the Trump

28:44

campaign's senior advisor, Mike Roman. ...explaining

28:46

that I should only give the documents to Ken

28:48

Chesbrough. So and then they asked

28:50

me to meet up with him outside the Trump

28:52

hotel. I mean it sounds

28:54

very secretive. Yeah, I

28:56

thought that that email was pretty odd and dramatic.

28:59

And you knew what was happening on January

29:01

6th in terms of the certification of the

29:03

vote. I don't know if I was very

29:06

tuned into that, truly, because I

29:08

thought that a court of law would have

29:10

needed to overturn the election for those documents

29:13

to be used. Did you know what Chesbrough

29:15

looked like? So he had actually sent me a selfie.

29:17

He sent you a selfie? Yes. So

29:19

that you would know it was him? Yeah. That's

29:22

it? Yeah. It's Ken Chesbrough. What did he

29:24

say to you? He kind of took a

29:26

dramatic step back and looked at me

29:28

and said, you might have just made history. Ken

29:30

Chesbrough told investigators he delivered the Wisconsin documents to

29:32

Capitol Hill. The

29:36

next day on January 6th, he can be seen in videos

29:38

outside the Capitol near conspiracy

29:42

theorist Alex Jones. I

29:44

now want to look even more deeply

29:46

at the fake electors scheme. According to the

29:49

January 6th select committee, an aide to Wisconsin Senator

29:51

Ron Johnson tried to

29:53

arrange to get the fake electors signed. to

30:00

Vice President Pence. And

30:02

I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope

30:04

so. I hope so. Because

30:07

if Mike Pence does the right thing, we

30:10

win the election. But Pence's

30:12

aide refused, texting, do not give

30:14

that to him, according to the

30:16

committee. When

30:19

the Senate chamber had to be evacuated, the

30:22

real electoral votes in these boxes were

30:25

taken to safety. And

30:27

when Congress resumed, they were returned

30:29

into the House chamber. Vice

30:33

President Pence announced the election results and closed

30:35

the session at 3.44 a.m. January 7th. The

30:44

Supreme Court ultimately declined to hear

30:46

the Trump campaign's lawsuit in Wisconsin.

30:49

What do you think about Donald Trump continuing to

30:51

claim that the 2020 election was stolen? I

30:54

mean, it wasn't stolen. It wasn't stolen

30:56

in Wisconsin. This past

30:58

December, Andrew Hitt and Wisconsin's other

31:01

Republican electors settled a

31:03

civil lawsuit against them by some of

31:05

the state's Democratic electors. They

31:08

admitted they signed a document that was used

31:10

as part of an attempt to

31:13

improperly overturn the 2020 presidential election

31:15

results. Hitt resigned

31:17

as chairman of the Wisconsin Republican Party

31:19

in August 2021. He's

31:22

cooperated with the January 6th committee. Using

31:25

our electors in ways that we

31:27

weren't told about. And

31:29

we wouldn't have supported. And he

31:31

says he's also cooperated with federal prosecutors.

31:35

He maintains he and the other fake

31:37

electors in Wisconsin were tricked. Whenever

31:40

anybody sees our text messages,

31:43

our emails, our documents, they

31:46

understand, they know, their conclusion is

31:48

we were tricked. The

31:51

January 6th committee saw it. Jack

31:54

Smith specifically in his indictment refers

31:57

to some of the electors were tricked. That

31:59

was us. The former president is known to

32:01

watch 60 Minutes. If

32:04

he's watching, what would you want to say to him? I

32:06

would say that this country needs to move forward.

32:10

That we need a leader who

32:12

is tackled

32:15

serious problems and serious issues that

32:17

this country faces. And

32:22

we need faith in our institutions

32:24

again. And

32:26

the next president of the United States needs to do

32:28

that. And in your opinion, that's not him. That

32:31

is not him. Hi,

32:41

Hi, this is is Jill Schlesinger, CBS News

32:43

Business Analyst, certified financial planner and

32:46

host of the the Money Watch

32:48

Podcast. This This is the show

32:50

where your money is is not scary

32:52

and it's not boring. It It is a

32:54

show that's all about you. It's your

32:56

questions that make it it

32:58

possible for me to provide

33:00

unconventional and entertaining insights on

33:02

your money and maybe more

33:04

importantly, on your life. I'm

33:06

going be your financial coach,

33:09

someone who brings common sense

33:11

and an insider's perspective on how

33:13

to manage your money and your

33:15

emotions. And I promise we are are going

33:17

to have a little bit of fun along the way.

33:20

Have a a question from retirement to

33:22

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33:24

an an email at askjill

33:26

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to 60 Minutes ad-free on Wondery

33:53

Plus. 2023

34:02

was the year the world learned

34:04

to pronounce Killian. The

34:06

ancient Irish name seemed to be on

34:08

everyone's lips as the

34:11

film Oppenheimer became a

34:13

blockbuster with 13 Oscar

34:15

nominations, including Best

34:17

Actor for Killian Murphy. Murphy

34:20

has worked nonstop for nearly 30 years, but

34:23

it was the epic drama of

34:25

the atomic bomb that ignited a

34:27

star. In this moment,

34:29

with a golden globe under his pork

34:31

pie hat and the Oscars three

34:33

weeks away, Murphy is more

34:35

famous than well known, so

34:38

we set out to learn more. We

34:40

were warned the 47-year-old Irishman is

34:42

reserved and wouldn't talk about himself,

34:45

but we discovered finding Killian

34:47

Murphy depends on where

34:50

you look. Ireland's

35:04

Dingle Peninsula was named for

35:06

a goddess before such things

35:08

were written, and for

35:10

6,000 years stories have

35:13

passed by ear. So

35:23

if verse inhabits every Irish

35:25

soul, then in a

35:27

country pub, Killian Murphy is

35:29

among peers, as he would have

35:31

it, just a man with a

35:33

pint to lift and no fame

35:35

to bear. What

35:39

is the meaning of Ireland? To

35:41

you. I don't think I

35:43

can answer that question satisfactorily. It's

35:47

defined who I am

35:49

as a person and my

35:51

values. It's just home. Home

35:55

includes his wife of 20 years, two

35:57

teenage sons, and sky Out

36:00

a lab named for the

36:02

character in To Kill A

36:05

Mockingbird Nap figures. Mercy has

36:07

always let stories lead his

36:09

pass. Find. So much

36:12

empathy and novels. Enough.

36:14

Because there you are putting herself for to

36:16

somebody else this point of view and I've

36:18

always been a big reader. When.

36:21

A movie can connect with someone and

36:23

they feel seen or feel hers. Or

36:25

a novel can chain somebody's life for

36:28

pisa music. An album can change someone's

36:30

life and I've had all that happened

36:32

to me and that's the power of

36:34

good are to think there's a straight

36:36

line. From. The Music In

36:39

the Pub to Oppenheimer. I think

36:41

they're from the same source of and I really

36:43

do. As I don't see, I see it's all

36:45

on a continuum. The I'm is as a form

36:47

of expression. expression.

36:50

In the eyes of J. Robert

36:52

Oppenheimer, the physicist who created the

36:54

Atom bomb but never controlled it

36:57

is edited to find: have a

36:59

blast from these Powerful with respect.

37:01

Doctor Oppenheimer will take it from

37:04

here. I

37:07

remember reading at the beginning about

37:09

him. That he

37:12

was more riddled an answer I thought

37:14

our Catholic. Wow. That's.

37:16

As interesting, I'm curious about your

37:19

notes. The. Riddle was in this

37:21

script by writer Director Christopher Nolan. Printed

37:23

in red so it couldn't be photocopied.

37:25

I did genuinely think it's one of

37:27

the greatest can say that ever read

37:29

and you told him older what I

37:31

mean I said i do A before

37:33

I read it. As far as I

37:35

always, I avoid arrest. Why would you

37:38

do that? It's. Always paid off for

37:40

me and own every film that I've worked with

37:42

him on. There

37:47

have been six Chris

37:49

Nolan films for Murphy:

37:51

Dunkirk, It's Inception, And

37:54

three Batman titles. With

37:58

you I to six. You told

38:00

me that it getting a film made

38:02

and getting it seen fear is a

38:04

miracle. it is. And

38:07

then as if if it's anyway good,

38:09

that's Americans. And then if it connects

38:11

with audience stats America Since a Miracle

38:13

on Miracle upon Miracle To have a

38:15

film like Oppenheimer Arabia's. His

38:19

Oppenheimer was not so much.

38:21

a miracle is hard work.

38:23

He lost twenty eight pounds

38:26

to get the silhouette. Then

38:28

he rose to the characters

38:30

step by step over six

38:32

months reading. listening to

38:34

Oppenheimer's lectures and covering

38:36

miles on the beach,

38:38

performing for scout. And

38:41

number one point I said Chris Chris there

38:44

appears to be him. He appears to

38:46

speak Dutch here and and I think

38:48

he's giving a lecture.share what are we going

38:50

to do both and Chris it even

38:52

when you can do about us the as

38:54

a the boosting sustained also doesn't and

38:56

at home on for hims receiving enters

38:58

into have been nice. Have been nominated for

39:01

what he said and Spotted Murphy says

39:03

he put. All he learned in

39:05

the back of his mind and

39:07

acted on instinct. I. Think

39:09

instinct is your most powerful tool that

39:11

you have an actor. Nothing must be.

39:14

Pre. Determined. So therefore you must have a

39:16

plan about how even a place stuff. And

39:19

I love that. it's like being buffeted by

39:21

the wind and be buffeted by emotion. School

39:25

systems in Africa. Else

39:28

is Emily Blunt plays

39:30

Oppenheimer's Tormented Weiss. He's

39:37

very vessels been seen in a

39:40

cycle. He transport C L kidnapping.

39:42

And the same. My. Favorite acting

39:44

moment of his and Oppenheimer is

39:46

the scene after the bomb has

39:49

been dropped and his dressing all

39:51

the people at Los Alamos. World.

39:57

Or remember this day. He

40:02

somehow wells together the

40:04

concept of being proud

40:06

of what they did

40:08

and regretting it very

40:11

deep voice of it's

40:13

talks too soon. Too

40:16

soon to determine what the results of

40:18

the bombing are. I'll

40:23

bet the Japanese been like if. No

40:28

one Moment. Of about one home or

40:30

as here is our journalists and the

40:32

locally and and as vulnerable. And.

40:34

It's Plaza. You

40:36

can play at all. But.

40:38

I don't know if many people can do what

40:41

he does. Julian

40:43

Murphy discovered agility and his

40:45

home town court. His mother

40:47

was a teacher, his father

40:49

a school inspector. In

40:52

high school, Mercy and his brother had a

40:54

band. Performing

40:57

lead to acting for Jesus and his

41:00

first place. This is more like the

41:02

size of a storage room than a

41:04

theater. Feet? yeah. But that's

41:06

all we were used to. His first

41:09

see it or nineteen Ninety Six aged

41:11

twenty. The play was Disco Pigs which

41:13

grew to bigger theaters and became a

41:15

movie. Why did you think you could

41:18

be an actor? I didn't.

41:20

I. Was very comfortable it on stage in front

41:23

of an audience. From when I was little

41:25

I never had any nerves. Doing.

41:27

Us sell to them that matter

41:29

of you know. And thrilling.

41:32

In. This theater. What

41:35

did you learn about acting? There's

41:37

a. fire escape

41:40

door right there and that's a kind

41:42

of an alleyway there and see got

41:44

a lot of like drunk guys out

41:46

of their minds bashing up against said

41:49

the fire escape door and it's you

41:51

can energize us thoughts i member learning

41:53

about like taking whatever you have said

41:55

responding to whatever the energy is in

41:58

the room and using ist That's

42:01

really good training. Yeah. Maintaining your

42:03

character with the drunk guy yelling

42:05

through the fire escape door. Yeah,

42:08

yeah. And I think theater

42:10

is such an

42:12

absurd undertaking when you think of it.

42:14

You know, because at any point it

42:16

could collapse and go wrong. It's dangerous.

42:18

Yeah, and I love that aspect of

42:20

it. That love led

42:22

him to drop law school. And

42:25

since then there have been a dozen

42:27

plays and 40 movies. I

42:30

love it when it becomes an immersive

42:33

experience. I

42:36

love getting lost in it. In the

42:38

early days that was with theater it felt

42:40

kind of extraordinary. With just

42:43

the power of will and a couple of lights and

42:45

a good script we were creating this

42:47

world. So that's

42:50

kind of addictive when it works well. It

42:52

worked well in 2013 in

42:54

a breakout role as a leading man.

42:58

In the series Peaky Blinders

43:00

Murphy plays Thomas Shelby who

43:02

survives World War I to

43:05

lead a family of gangsters. You

43:08

were mostly in the war so you know the

43:10

battle plans always change and get ****ed up. Well

43:13

there it is. They're all damaged,

43:16

broken men. But

43:18

something got knocked

43:20

in him and he came back with this incredible

43:22

drive and ambition and like I'm

43:24

not afraid of death. So now

43:26

I can do whatever I want. In

43:32

Tommy Shelby you created a

43:35

sympathetic relatable monster.

43:38

Kill. Kill. Tell

43:44

me why do my people listen? I

43:46

like to be challenged and

43:49

when I read something I want to go I don't

43:52

really know how I can do that. In

43:55

ten years of Peaky Blinders Murphy

43:57

came into his own. Heard

44:00

very early on in my career a director

44:02

was one of the Sydney's from been sitting

44:04

there can be in Sydney Pollack but one

44:06

of them said. Next

44:08

thirty years to make an actor

44:10

such as Technique can experience. Of

44:12

all it's blue. It's It's maturing

44:15

as if says as a human

44:17

being and and ass trying to

44:19

grapple with life and figure it

44:21

out and all of that stuff.

44:23

So by the time. He

44:26

would do to for thirty years eve all of

44:28

that banks hopefully. And

44:30

eventually then I think you get to

44:32

a point where he might be and

44:35

okay actor as a. Maturing

44:38

is the Seem of Mercies

44:41

next film based on the

44:43

novel small Things like These

44:46

He plays Bill for long

44:48

tormented by and justice. His

44:50

wife fears his empathy will

44:53

up in their lives. To.

45:09

Synthesize. Insisted.

45:16

That's Eileen Waltz know actor

45:19

has known Murphy longer. She

45:21

was his first partner in

45:23

Disco Pigs twenty eight years

45:26

ago. Is. His work

45:28

ethic rooted in seer

45:30

or joy. I.

45:36

Think they can only be joy, but

45:39

it sometimes takes a lot of pain

45:41

to get to that joy the deeper

45:43

we go. With acting. The

45:45

cost is grace or for us. And.

45:49

says. ugly i know off and

45:51

hammer and now has cost him finds

45:54

out weight loss he insisted on he

45:56

never was his choice to do but

45:58

and it was that the

46:00

right choice to create that amazing

46:02

silhouette. But from the very

46:04

beginning, our warmups for disco

46:07

pigs involved us

46:09

punching each other quite

46:12

hard and

46:15

like going for it and then

46:17

bursting out into it.

46:19

This huge ball of

46:21

velocity coming into it was

46:24

the beginning of an Oppenheimer with the whole

46:26

kind of atom of it. Now,

46:29

after three decades of

46:31

work, Killian

46:37

Murphy is cast in the

46:39

most familiar Irish legend of

46:42

all. Maybe there

46:44

is gold, a 24-karat

46:46

gold-plated statue at

46:48

the end of his spectrum of talent.

46:52

You have screwed this up though, you know,

46:54

in what way? You

46:56

used to be an actor and

46:58

now you're a movie star. Oh, okay. Am

47:02

I? I think you could

47:04

be both. You know, I've

47:06

never understood that term really, movie star,

47:09

I've always just felt like I'm an

47:11

actor. That's, I think, a term for

47:13

other people rather than for me.

47:22

Many put their hope in Dr. Serhat,

47:24

his company was worth half a billion

47:27

dollars. His research promised

47:29

groundbreaking treatments for HIV

47:31

and cancer. Scientists, doctors,

47:33

renowned experts were saying,

47:35

genius, genius, genius. People that knew

47:37

him were convinced that he saved their life.

47:40

But the brilliant doctor was hiding a

47:43

secret. Do not cross

47:45

this line that was being messaged

47:47

to us. Do not cross this

47:49

line. A secret the doctor was

47:52

desperate to keep. This

47:54

was a person who was willing

47:56

to coldheartedly just lie to people's

47:58

faces. dealing with an

48:01

international fugitive. From

48:03

Wondery, the makers of Over My

48:05

Dead Body and The Shrink Next

48:07

Door comes a new season of

48:10

Dr. Death, Bad Magic. You

48:12

can listen to Dr. Death's Bad

48:14

Magic ad free by subscribing to

48:16

Wondery Plus in the Wondery app

48:18

or on Apple Podcasts. Listen

48:23

to the 48 hours podcast

48:25

for shocking murder cases

48:27

and compelling real life

48:29

dramas from one of

48:32

television's most watched true crime

48:34

shows go behind

48:36

the scenes of each episode

48:38

with award-winning CBS News correspondence

48:41

and producers in

48:43

post-mortem a weekly deep dive.

48:46

Listen to 48 hours, wherever

48:48

you get your podcasts. On

48:53

Friday, Russia announced the death

48:56

of Alexei Navalny, Vladimir Putin's

48:58

most prominent political opponent. The

49:01

report says he collapsed after taking

49:03

a walk at his Arctic prison

49:05

colony. We spoke with

49:07

him a little over three years ago

49:10

in Berlin, where he was recovering from

49:12

poisoning from a chemical weapon ordered,

49:14

he told us, by President Putin.

49:18

I think for Putin why

49:21

he's using this chemical weapon

49:23

to do both. Kill

49:25

me and, you know, terrify

49:28

others. It's something really

49:30

scary and Putin is enjoying

49:32

it. You have said you

49:34

think that Mr. Putin's responsible.

49:37

I don't think, I'm sure,

49:39

that he's responsible. Navalny

49:41

returned to Russia to face

49:43

trial, imprisonment and near certain

49:45

death. I'm

49:48

Leslie Stahl. We'll be back next

49:50

week with another edition of 60

49:52

Minutes. Prime

49:55

members, you can listen to 60 Minutes

49:58

ad-free on Amazon. The you

50:00

think download the Amazon Music app

50:02

today or you can listen ad

50:05

free with wonder he plus an

50:07

Apple podcasts. Before. You go

50:09

tell us about yourself by completing

50:11

a short survey at Wonder he.com

50:13

flash survey.