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and our good times. The

2:18

United Nations says a catastrophic

2:20

humanitarian crisis is unfolding in

2:23

Gaza. But

2:25

Israel has barred journalists from

2:27

independently accessing the Gaza Strip.

2:30

We have mass casualties coming in and waves at

2:32

a hospital. That's happening at least three

2:34

or four times a night. In one night? So,

2:37

you know, a regular day for me was seeing

2:39

children with shrapnel injuries I

2:41

have never in my life seen before. Death

2:44

happening in a fully treatable situation because

2:46

the supplies are not available. Getting

2:51

into China is all but impossible

2:53

for most Western journalists. This

2:55

is the financial and economic capital

2:58

of China. But when the

3:00

U.S. Ambassador Nicholas Burns invited us

3:02

to come for a visit and an

3:04

interview, we were granted visas.

3:07

Is it our most competitive

3:09

relationship in the world right now? This

3:12

is the most important, most

3:14

competitive, and most dangerous relationship

3:16

that the United States has in the world right now, and

3:19

I will, I think for the next decade or so. I'm

3:24

Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm

3:26

Anderson Cooper. I'm Sharon Alphonse. I'm

3:28

John Wertheim. I'm

3:31

Cecilia Vega. I'm Scott Pelli. Those

3:33

stories and more tonight on 60 Minutes.

3:43

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Listen to 48 hours wherever

5:01

you get your podcasts. When

5:06

the terrorist group Hamas unleashed its

5:08

barbaric attack inside Israel last October,

5:11

the response by the Israeli government was

5:13

swift. The

5:15

Hamas launched thousands of troops, tanks,

5:18

and more than 45,000 bombs into

5:20

Gaza, decimating entire cities. The

5:23

Hamas run Gaza Ministry of Health says

5:25

more than 29,000 people have been killed

5:27

and nearly

5:29

2 million displaced. Numbers

5:31

many in the Israeli press and the

5:33

United Nations are reporting. Israel

5:36

has barred journalists from independently

5:38

accessing the Gaza Strip to

5:41

find the longstanding precedent

5:43

of allowing reporters into war zones. Aid

5:46

workers say a catastrophic humanitarian

5:48

crisis is unfolding in Gaza,

5:51

but reporting on it has been challenging.

5:53

So we asked aid workers, including two Americans, to

5:56

share their view from inside Gaza over the last

5:58

decade. last 142

6:00

days. A warning? It is difficult to watch. This

6:08

was the scene at Nassar Hospital in southern

6:10

Gaza in late January. For

6:17

weeks, the hospital had been surrounded by fighting.

6:22

But another battle played out inside

6:25

its crowded corridor. Doctors

6:28

and nurses, short on supplies and

6:30

beds, knelt on the floor as they

6:32

tried to save bombing victims. Deeper

6:35

in the hospital, we saw Dr.

6:37

Narita Med, a critical care specialist

6:39

from Pennsylvania. Our

6:41

CBS producer, based in Gaza, shot

6:43

this video. He has a small

6:45

amount of free fluid. His

6:48

doctor, Med, checked on the young victims of

6:50

an airstrike she treated the night before. This

6:54

13-year-old boy did not survive. The

6:56

nurses noticed his eyes. Pupils are

6:58

fixed and dilated, which is a sign

7:00

of brain death. The

7:04

Gaza Ministry of Health estimates 12,000 children

7:07

have died here since the war began. There's

7:10

no room for that. We met

7:12

Dr. Med days after she left

7:14

Gaza, exhausted after working a two-week

7:16

stretch at Nassar. We have

7:18

mass casualties coming in and waves at a hospital.

7:21

That's happening at least three or four times a night. In

7:23

one night. So, you know,

7:25

regular day for me was seeing children

7:28

with shrapnel injuries I

7:30

have never in my life seen before, with

7:33

traumatic brain injury, death

7:35

happening in a fully treatable situation because

7:38

the supplies are not available. Dr.

7:40

Med is the daughter of Bangladeshi immigrants.

7:43

She grew up in Philadelphia and works

7:45

at a hospital there. She

7:47

is also the medical director of Med

7:49

Global, a U.S.-based NGO

7:51

that trains local healthcare workers

7:53

in disaster and conflict zones.

7:57

39 years old, she's worked in a half-dozen...

8:00

in war zones, including six trips to

8:02

Ukraine in the last two years. She

8:05

told us supply and medicine shortages have

8:07

deepened the suffering in Gaza. It's

8:10

basic medications. It's pain

8:13

medication. There are people getting limbs

8:16

amputated without any anesthesia. That's

8:21

what we're seeing on a day-to-day basis. I

8:24

can tell you that things that

8:26

we have put into the pipeline

8:28

to get to Gaza can often

8:30

take weeks to months. Weeks

8:32

to months. And you need them yesterday.

8:36

How does what you're seeing in Gaza compare

8:38

to what you've seen in these other war zones

8:40

and conflicts? It

8:43

is incomparable, I would

8:45

say. I

8:49

don't think I've seen this many children

8:53

affected in any of the other war zones I've ever been

8:55

to. I don't think

8:57

I've seen this many people squeezed in a

8:59

small area without any ability to

9:02

leave. I

9:04

don't think I've been this close to the

9:06

sound of missile strikes with

9:09

the house shaking or the

9:11

hospital shaking while I'm trying to operate

9:13

in the ICU. How do you

9:15

function and operate when you can

9:18

hear gunfire and explosions at

9:20

your doorstep? We go into

9:23

medical mission mode. So

9:25

bombs going off or not, we

9:28

are absolutely focused on what's in front

9:30

of us. Is it terrifying? Yes,

9:32

of course. Do

9:34

we think about it after the fact? Absolutely.

9:37

There are hospitals that are under siege. This

9:39

happened with Shifa Hospital. It

9:41

happened with Nasser Hospital, Al Amal Hospital.

9:44

Just to name a few. The UN

9:46

reports more than 300 health care workers have

9:49

been killed since the war began. In

9:52

late January, Dr. Ahmed and four

9:54

of her colleagues evacuated Nasser. Ten

9:58

days ago, Israeli troops were sent to the U.S. stormed

10:00

the hospital, claiming

10:03

Hamas was hiding inside. Patients,

10:06

staff, and thousands sheltering in the

10:08

hospital spilled onto the street. You

10:11

know that the IDF is accused Hamas of

10:13

hiding and operating in these hospitals. Did

10:16

you see that at all? I

10:18

can really just talk about what I know. And what I

10:20

know is that the healthcare

10:22

catastrophe in these hospitals, that's what

10:24

I saw. Even

10:27

as explosions surrounded the hospital last week,

10:31

teams from the World Health Organization made

10:33

their way in, negotiating

10:36

through the dark to evacuate 32

10:39

critical patients, some of them children.

10:42

Aid workers say there are still

10:44

patients and staff inside the hospital

10:46

with no running water or

10:48

electricity. The international humanitarian

10:50

law is clear. Healthcare

10:53

workers, humanitarian ambulances,

10:55

and hospitals should be respected

10:57

and protected in all situations.

11:00

But unfortunately, this is not

11:02

the case in Gaza. Nabel

11:06

Farsik is the spokesperson for the

11:08

Palestinian Red Crescent. It's

11:11

part of the international Red Cross. We

11:14

met her in this call center in

11:16

Ramallah in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Here,

11:20

operators dispatch emergency workers in Gaza 50

11:22

miles away. This

11:29

is a recording of one of the calls the

11:31

Red Crescent responded to the week we were there.

11:34

On January 29th, the Israeli military ordered parts of

11:37

Gaza City to evacuate. So

11:40

15-year-old Leanne Hamada and her family piled

11:44

into their car to try and get to safety.

11:49

They're shooting at us, she tells the operator.

11:52

The tank is next to me. Are you hiding?

11:54

Yes, in the car. We're next to the tank.

11:57

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

12:00

Then the line goes dead. When

12:07

the operator called back, a

12:10

child answers. Six-year-old Hen

12:12

Rajab, the girl's cousin. The

12:17

tank is next to me, she says. I'm

12:21

so scared, please come. Please

12:24

call someone to come and take me. The

12:28

red crescent says this is the ambulance

12:30

they sent. It was

12:32

discovered along with the bodies of

12:34

two medics 12 days after they were

12:36

dispatched when Israeli Defense Forces left the

12:39

area. Hen Rajab

12:41

was also killed. The six-year-old's body

12:43

was found inside this car, alongside

12:46

five members of her family. The

12:49

IDF told us that the incident is

12:51

still under review, but has accused

12:53

Hamas in the past of using

12:55

ambulances to transport its fighters. The

12:58

story of Hen, it's not the

13:00

only story. It's absolutely dozens of

13:03

calls we're getting since the beginning

13:05

of the war in Gaza where

13:07

we fail helpless because we are

13:09

completely denied access to many areas

13:11

in Gaza to only provide our

13:14

emergency medical services. So what you're

13:16

describing is these people can't leave,

13:18

it's not safe for them to

13:20

leave and you can't get to

13:23

them. Exactly. This

13:25

is what Hen Rajab and her family were

13:27

trying to escape. We obtained

13:30

this video from a UN worker who

13:32

was with one of the first teams

13:34

allowed into northern Gaza. Across

13:37

this apocalyptic landscape, images show

13:39

two-thirds of Gaza has been

13:41

flattened. Satellite

13:44

images reveal how densely populated

13:46

the 25-mile strip was before

13:48

the war. Today,

13:50

most of the nearly two million

13:53

residents displaced from their home have

13:55

evacuated to the south. Here,

13:58

40 or more people. The whole

14:00

pack into a room at a

14:02

makeshift shelters. hundreds share one bathroom.

14:05

Those who can't find space. In

14:07

the shelter, settle in the sprawling sand

14:09

kids of Gaza's ten city in Rafah,

14:11

on the border with Egypt. For.

14:13

Gardens There is no way out. Whereas.

14:17

The arrest border crossing if he

14:19

were travelling between dogs and Israeli

14:21

would come through this terminal. And.

14:23

October seventh Hamas storm the terminal.

14:26

You can see the damage all

14:28

around Us. Obviously the terminal has

14:30

been closed since. As now there

14:33

is only one border crossing from

14:35

Israel into Gaza and deaths for

14:37

humanitarian aid. That

14:39

crossing is known as Kerem Shalom. The

14:42

idea of would not allow us to

14:44

zoom this. Before the war,

14:46

more than five hundred trucks carrying goods

14:48

came. Through the crossing every day. To.

14:51

Day on average about eighty five

14:54

trucks obeyed get through. What

14:56

are the top three things that you

14:58

need? Scott Anderson is trying to get

15:00

any a that does come in distributed.

15:03

Anderson is an army that from

15:06

Iowa who did two tours in

15:08

Afghanistan for lot like of. Sixty.

15:11

Minutes First met him in Gaza

15:13

in Twenty Four see when he

15:15

says as the Deputy Director of

15:17

Operations for the Un Relief and

15:19

Works Agency known as unruffled Five

15:21

Hour Years after the war began

15:24

in October, Anderson retired. Return to

15:26

the job is you know as

15:28

American journalist we can't get. In

15:30

there. What is it The see? what? is

15:32

it like every day. What you mostly see

15:34

from people everyday for and fried foods are

15:36

trying to stay warm and try to find

15:38

some use. Bathroom. And that's

15:41

what people wise consist of

15:43

to very much a pressure

15:45

cooker environment can feel neared

15:47

stamps. There is no commercial.

15:49

Food available in Gaza and the

15:51

Un says seventy percent of people

15:53

don't have access to clean. Water

15:56

since early two. Million Dollars

15:58

as are dependent on a. for

16:00

all their food and water. Last

16:03

week, UNICEF reported that one in

16:06

six children under the age of

16:08

two in Northern Gaza is severely

16:10

malnourished. Everybody's reliant on

16:12

the international community, the international humanitarian

16:14

community, to provide their basic

16:16

necessities. In an ideal world,

16:18

there'd be 600 trucks a day coming

16:21

into Gaza. You're nowhere close to that number. We're

16:23

nowhere close to that number. What's the problem, is

16:25

to hold up the inspections? You have two governments

16:27

in the UN, and a lot of people involved.

16:30

There are the security inspections of the

16:32

goods, which I understand. The Israelis have

16:34

said the problems on the UN side.

16:36

I would say that is entirely not

16:38

true. It's not

16:41

just the UN. Every day, there's a

16:43

couple hours where nothing moves. And

16:45

that's not us. There's just nothing to get. For

16:48

70 years, UNRWA has been the

16:50

largest aid organization in Gaza, providing

16:52

food, education, and

16:55

medical care. But to

16:57

its critics, including some Israelis, the

16:59

agency is corrupt. Last

17:03

month, Israel accused 12 of UNRWA's

17:05

13,000 employees of

17:08

helping to plan and carry out the

17:10

October 7th attacks. The

17:12

UN fired those employees. But

17:15

16 countries, including the US,

17:17

have stopped funding the organization

17:20

while investigations are ongoing. I'm

17:23

shocked that somebody associated with the UN could

17:25

do that. That's what, unfortunately, throughout

17:27

history, many individuals have

17:29

betrayed organizations that they work

17:31

for, betrayed the values. We

17:33

do uphold UN values, humanitarian principles.

17:37

And we are responding to the best of our

17:39

ability in Gaza right now. If UNRWA

17:41

collapses, who would

17:43

do the work that you're doing? There's nobody that can

17:46

do the work we do. UNRWA

17:48

is the backbone of the operation. And

17:50

without us, the operation will collapse. On

17:54

Thursday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

17:56

said he wants to completely shut

17:58

down UNRWA. Can only the

18:00

first time. Netanyahu outlined his plan

18:03

for Gaza after. The. War which.

18:05

Included. Allowing the Israeli

18:07

military to operate in Gaza

18:09

indefinitely. for double. The idea

18:12

has begun in. Internal review of

18:14

it's shortcomings before and during

18:17

the October Seventh Attacks. Amid

18:19

ongoing negotiations, a member of Israel's

18:21

war cabinet announced it is the

18:23

one hundred and thirty four hostages

18:25

are not home. In two weeks,

18:27

Israel will launch a. ground. defenses

18:29

in Rafah were more than a

18:31

million and. A half people are

18:34

sheltering less Urged his real to

18:36

refrain morning it could worsen and

18:38

already had a straw thick situation.

18:47

Survivors back and so is on fire. The

18:49

only official about the far south them we

18:51

have a twist a new go. The were

18:53

a suburb horrified by it or as. Listed

18:57

on Fire The official Survivor podcast thirty

18:59

Seven or twenty Years Wherever he gives

19:01

you. Hi,

19:09

Hi, this is is Jill Schlesinger, CBS News

19:11

Business Analyst, certified financial planner and

19:13

host of the the Money Watch

19:16

Podcast. This This is the show

19:18

where your money is is not scary

19:20

and it's not boring. It It is a

19:22

show that's all about you. It's your

19:24

questions that make it it

19:26

possible for me to provide

19:28

unconventional and entertaining insights on

19:30

your money and maybe more

19:32

importantly, on your life. I'm

19:34

going be your financial coach,

19:36

someone who brings common sense

19:38

and an insider's perspective on how

19:41

to manage your money and your

19:43

emotions. And I promise we are are going

19:45

to have a little bit of fun along the way.

19:48

Have a a question from retirement to

19:50

career changes to college funding? Just us

19:52

an an email at askjill

19:54

at jillonmoney.com. Follow Money

19:56

Watch wherever you get your podcasts.

19:59

You can listen ad on the

20:01

Amazon Music or Wondery app. American

20:04

CEOs used to swoon over

20:07

China. Its vast pool

20:09

of consumers has been a magnetic

20:11

draw for decades. But

20:13

doing business there has become so

20:15

fraught and risky with

20:17

intellectual property theft and

20:20

an expanded espionage law used

20:22

to intimidate the business community

20:25

that US companies have pressed the

20:27

pause button. On top

20:29

of that, the US-China relationship has

20:32

become contentious due partly

20:34

to Beijing's belligerent activity toward

20:36

Taiwan and in the South

20:38

China Sea, the

20:40

balloon spy incident of last year,

20:43

and the list goes on. Making

20:46

matters worse, the Chinese economy

20:48

has hit a wall. Export

20:51

growth is slowing. The country's

20:53

drowning in debt and

20:55

youth unemployment has soared. Looking

20:59

into China to tell that story

21:01

is all but impossible for most

21:04

Western journalists. But

21:06

when the US Ambassador Nicholas Burns

21:08

invited us to come for a

21:10

visit and an interview, we

21:12

were granted visas. We spoke

21:14

with him at his residence in

21:16

Beijing. More

21:18

money is leaving China for

21:21

the first time in 40 years than

21:23

is coming in from American,

21:25

from Japanese, European, and Korean

21:27

investors. Now, why is that and

21:29

how much of a problem is that for

21:32

them? That's a real problem for

21:34

this economy. They're 1.4 billion people here. They've

21:36

got to keep it growing. And

21:39

foreign capital's important. US- How

21:44

much of a problem is that for them?

21:46

That's a real problem for this economy.

21:48

They're 1.4 billion people here. They've got to

21:51

keep it growing. And foreign

21:53

capital's important. You ask why. I

21:56

think there's been a contradiction in the messaging

21:59

from the government. government here in China to the

22:01

rest of the world. On the one hand, they

22:03

say, we're open for business. We want American, Japanese

22:06

businesses here. But on the other

22:08

hand, they've raided six

22:12

or seven American businesses since last

22:14

March. Rated? Rated. They've

22:16

gone into American companies and shut them

22:19

down and made accusations we

22:21

believe are very much unwarranted. The

22:24

American companies include Bain &

22:26

Company and the Minsk

22:29

Group, a company that does due

22:31

diligence for other companies that might

22:33

want to invest here, was raided

22:35

last year. Five of

22:37

its Chinese employees were taken into

22:39

custody and they're still there. Another

22:43

firm, Cat Vision, was raided. Plus

22:45

the message wasn't loud and clear.

22:48

A report about it was put

22:50

on state-run television. It

22:53

accused Western consulting firms

22:55

of espionage and stealing

22:58

national security and military

23:00

secrets. They want the investment to

23:02

come back and they're raiding

23:04

American companies. They

23:06

passed an amendment to their counter

23:08

espionage law. It's written in such

23:10

a general way that it could be

23:13

that American business people could

23:15

be accused of espionage for

23:18

engaging in practices that are

23:20

perfectly legal and acceptable everywhere

23:22

else in the world, collecting

23:24

data to due diligence so that

23:26

you can decide whether you want to invest in

23:28

a company or form a joint venture. What

23:31

do you think the Chinese are afraid that

23:33

these companies are going to find

23:36

out, these due diligence companies? What

23:39

are they worrying about? I think they want to control

23:41

data about the Chinese people,

23:44

about Chinese companies. And

23:46

so that I think is at the heart of

23:48

the problem with those American companies operating in that

23:50

sphere. Senator Burns

23:52

told us that's just one of the concerns

23:54

he hears about. There is

23:57

still intellectual property theft from

23:59

American companies. companies here. Is every American

24:01

company afraid of that? Yes.

24:05

All kinds of U.S. companies began flocking

24:07

to China in the early 1980s after

24:09

the country opened

24:12

to the West under then-leader

24:14

Deng Xiaoping. And

24:16

now U.S. banks operate here.

24:19

Walmart has more than 300 stores

24:22

across the country. Companies

24:25

here in Shanghai can buy Levi's,

24:28

browse in an Apple store, and

24:31

get a Caramel Frappuccino. Starbucks

24:34

has 6,000 stores in China, 1,000 stores

24:37

in Shanghai, and they want to

24:39

keep building because coffee, this

24:41

was a tea culture. For

24:43

hundreds of years, it's now becoming, at

24:45

least with the young Chinese, a coffee

24:48

culture. And they love Starbucks?

24:50

They love Starbucks, and I'll buy you

24:52

a cappuccino. I'll take one. Thank you.

24:55

Boeing's here. So is Tesla,

24:58

Pfizer, Chevron, Intel.

25:01

But while some businesses are thriving,

25:03

many of the foreign companies are

25:05

worried about the business climate under

25:07

President Xi Jinping. If you

25:10

track China from the death of Mao

25:13

to the opening of China to

25:15

the world, we've seen a

25:17

closing of sorts. We've seen a centralization of

25:20

power of the party. We've

25:22

seen increased repression of

25:24

the people of China here. That's

25:27

a very significant trend just over the

25:29

last decade. With Xi?

25:31

Under his leadership. Part of

25:33

that trend includes President

25:35

Xi's reversing many of

25:37

the market reforms that

25:39

unleashed China's economic miracle.

25:42

They've been growing over 40 years, the fastest

25:44

growth rate in recorded economic history. 8,

25:47

9, 10, 11% growth rates. They've

25:50

lifted 800 million people out of poverty. But

25:53

what's happening is that growth rate is slowing down. Most

25:56

economists are now projecting there'll be a 2%, 3%, 4% growth.

26:00

Maybe even lower in the next decade.

26:02

Can they support their society if it's that low?

26:04

That's going to be difficult for them. If

26:06

there was so much explosive growth,

26:10

if so many people were lifted

26:12

out of poverty, why is he turning

26:14

away from what worked? Well,

26:16

I think they've got maybe competing

26:18

priorities. The government here

26:21

in China certainly wants the economy to grow,

26:24

but they also have a national security mindset.

26:26

They want to control data. But

26:29

that's more important, the control,

26:31

right, than economic growth.

26:34

It seems that way. I think it's open for

26:36

debate. You're hearing, we are

26:38

hearing, both messages. It

26:40

sounds as if you yourself don't

26:42

know the direction it's going. What

26:45

I perceive here is that

26:47

the greater energy is with those on the

26:50

national security side of

26:52

the government of China. Good morning. How are you?

26:55

On a train trip from Beijing to Shanghai,

26:57

the ambassador pointed out that

26:59

in the decades before President

27:01

Xi, China powered

27:03

its economy by investing in

27:06

these high-speed trains, roads,

27:10

factories and skyscrapers

27:12

that light up Shanghai, the

27:15

financial capital of China. But

27:18

under President Xi, China lost more than

27:20

$120 billion worth

27:22

of long-term foreign investments

27:24

last year because of the weakening

27:27

economy and the harsh government tactics

27:30

which have left American companies

27:32

uncertain of the future there.

27:34

There are a lot of American companies here. Have

27:37

a lot of them just picked up and left

27:39

because of this current business environment? You

27:42

know, that's interesting. Not many.

27:45

Not many. Not many. Why

27:47

not? China is the second largest economy in the world.

27:49

It's a big market. A

27:51

few American companies have left, but

27:54

most have stayed. Some American

27:56

companies are moving at least some

27:58

of their operations. to

28:00

Singapore, Vietnam, Mexico.

28:03

But they're not leaving China.

28:05

The market's so irresistible

28:08

to American business people.

28:10

It's gigantic. Maybe they're not

28:12

leaving, but they're not investing.

28:14

They're not making major investments until they can

28:17

see exactly where the government is

28:19

headed. Yet, because of the

28:21

1.4 billion potential

28:23

consumers, some companies,

28:25

like Disney, are increasing

28:28

their investment. It

28:32

recently expanded its Shanghai

28:34

Disneyland that they told us

28:36

is thriving. Aptar,

28:39

a $9 billion company headquartered

28:42

in Crystal Lake, Illinois,

28:44

is another American firm bucking the

28:47

trend of capital flight. President

28:50

of Aptar Asia, Shunhui

28:52

Gong, a Chinese-born U.S.

28:54

citizen, showed us around

28:57

one of their five manufacturing

28:59

sites in China. We are

29:01

manufacturing for some of the

29:03

largest U.S. brands, actually, the

29:05

U.S. consumer brands. This

29:07

factory makes the packaging and

29:09

dispensing devices for food, pharmaceutical,

29:12

and beauty products sold in

29:14

Asia. All of our

29:17

customers, like C&G, Laurier,

29:19

Esterloda, they're all here doing business.

29:22

Aptar, in China for nearly 30 years,

29:25

recently invested $60 million in a new factory.

29:30

Shunhui Gong says even in

29:32

a slowing economy, the company

29:34

is doing well. American

29:36

companies here, as the ambassador well

29:39

knows, are pausing or

29:41

cutting back on investment, but

29:43

not this firm. You're expanding.

29:45

Well, because we are

29:48

here for the long term and we

29:50

believe in the consumption power of the

29:52

rising middle class. It's 1.4 billion

29:55

people here. And imagine,

29:57

for example, health care. with

30:00

them, cosmetics and beauty and beverage,

30:02

all those sectors, packaged foods, these are

30:05

really the biggest markets. And

30:07

so we are very confident about

30:09

the long term. What does it

30:12

say about the confidence really

30:14

in the U.S.-China relationship?

30:17

It seems to say you

30:19

believe that things will what?

30:22

I'm asking, get better? That's

30:25

a great question for the ambassador. I

30:28

believe so, I hope so. You

30:30

know, we'll see. Actually, Byrne

30:33

says he's wary of the future, as

30:36

the fundamental rivalry and mistrust between

30:38

the U.S. and China is shaking

30:40

the confidence of the business world

30:43

and has pushed our relationship to

30:45

its lowest point in half a

30:48

century. Is it our

30:50

most competitive relationship in the world

30:52

right now? This is

30:54

the most important, most competitive

30:57

and most dangerous relationship that the United States has

30:59

in the world right now and will, I

31:01

think for the next decade or so. I

31:04

want to quote you back to you and tell

31:06

us what you meant. You

31:08

have said divorce is not an

31:10

option. Right. Our

31:13

two countries have to live together. And this I

31:15

think is the greatest tension in

31:18

the U.S.-China relationship. China

31:20

is our most significant competitor. And

31:23

at the same time, China is

31:25

our third largest trade partner, 750,000 American

31:27

jobs at stake. Agriculture.

31:32

China is the largest market for U.S.

31:34

agriculture. One fifth of all

31:36

of our export products from

31:38

agriculture are sent to China. That

31:40

was $40.9 billion last year. So

31:44

we can't afford really to have

31:46

a real break here. Well, it's complicated.

31:48

Some people are saying, well, we're so

31:51

competitive with China, we should end the economic relationship. Well,

31:53

the consequences of that would be 750,000 American families. wouldn't

32:01

be able to put dinner on the table. And

32:03

so this makes for

32:05

an extraordinarily difficult balancing act in

32:07

my job. You're a well-linder

32:09

brother. I've never thought of myself

32:11

that way, but high wire, right? Well,

32:14

we have competing interests here. And

32:17

balancing those interests is the reality in

32:19

the U.S.-China relationship. We're going to compete.

32:21

We have to compete responsibly and keep

32:23

the peace between our countries. But

32:26

we also have to engage. More

32:29

about the balancing act and the

32:31

biggest economic problem in China today

32:34

when we come back. Family

32:58

members, victims, and colleagues for the most

33:00

comprehensive telling of who Robert Hanson really

33:02

was. Binge the entire series now. Agents

33:05

of Betrayal, the double life of Robert Hanson

33:07

is available on the Wondering app, Amazon Music,

33:09

or wherever you get your podcasts. Get

33:12

one of the most successful broadcasts

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in television history on your schedule

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with the 60 Minutes

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33:21

and culture maker interviews, and

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in-depth profiles are waiting for you

33:26

in every episode. Listen to 60

33:29

Minutes ad-free on Wondery Plus. One

33:38

in every five people in the world

33:40

is Chinese. China's population

33:42

is four times that of the

33:45

U.S., and the country is

33:47

vast, 3.7 million square miles. It

33:51

overlooks the Taiwan Strait, where

33:53

half the world's trade flows every

33:56

day, and is located about

33:58

100 miles away. from

34:00

Taiwan. President Xi

34:03

likes to say that the East is

34:05

rising, the West is declining. But

34:08

economically, the U.S. is thriving

34:10

compared to China. In

34:13

December, Moody's, the credit rating

34:15

agency, cut its outlook for

34:17

China to negative. And

34:20

it's facing a long-term demographic

34:22

bind, a decline in

34:24

the birth rate that experts say

34:26

is irreversible, meaning the

34:28

country is both aging and

34:30

shrinking. Ambassador Nicholas

34:33

Burns took us on a tour starting in

34:35

Beijing. The

34:41

ambassador and his wife Libby like

34:43

to take early morning walks through

34:45

a park near their residence. This

34:49

is a 600-year-old Ming Dynasty park called Ritan Park.

34:51

It's a place for a lot of retirees and

34:57

a lot of young people, and it's tremendously active. It's

35:02

where the locals come for their

35:04

early morning routines, like Tai Chi,

35:06

Yo-Yo Wing, and

35:12

Ping Pang. You

35:20

couldn't tell from these scenes that

35:23

China, where the COVID pandemic began, is

35:25

still emerging from

35:28

the trauma of President

35:30

Xi Jinping's oppressive zero-COVID

35:33

policy. Burns, 68,

35:35

a career diplomat who has

35:38

served in both Republican and

35:40

Democratic administrations, got

35:42

to China at the height

35:45

of the zero-COVID lockdowns and

35:47

quarantines. When my wife Libby and

35:49

I arrived here in early March of 2022,

35:51

we were quarantined in this

35:54

house for 21 days for three weeks.

35:56

Shanghai, a city of 26 million

35:58

people, was completely locked

36:01

down for 63 days. What

36:03

was that like in the city?

36:06

We had women who needed to give birth and we had

36:08

to find a way to get them to the hospital. We

36:11

had Americans who wanted to get out but

36:13

had to find a way out of their

36:15

locked compounds to the airport.

36:17

So zero COVID worked for a while.

36:20

In 20 and 21, they had very low or

36:22

relatively lower infection rates. But by

36:25

2022, it had really

36:27

divided this society. It

36:29

set off rare widespread protests.

36:32

Then in December of 2022, President

36:35

Xi ended the policy

36:37

abruptly. The last thing

36:39

this government is gonna accept here is volatility.

36:42

Volatility is something Jorg Woodka,

36:45

a German businessman who's lived

36:47

and worked in China for

36:49

over 30 years, hadn't seen

36:51

since the Tiananmen Square uprising

36:53

in 1989. He

36:57

represents BASF, the world's

36:59

largest chemical producer. You

37:02

have said this is a

37:04

PTSD country, post-traumatic stress disorder

37:06

country. What do you mean? Well,

37:09

everybody has been traumatized by the lockdowns that

37:12

took place in many cities across China. And

37:14

the kind of messaging that came out of

37:17

the leadership, it's for your own safety. And

37:19

then the lockdown was lifted. Actually, it was

37:22

more a capitulation from the government. The lockdown

37:24

basically left and like a tsunami- They said

37:26

they were wrong, we're gonna lift it? They

37:28

never said they were wrong. That's not the

37:30

system. Admit that they did something

37:32

wrong. And then you basically, like

37:34

a tsunami, COVID was rolling across the

37:36

country. After they lifted it? December,

37:39

January, I would say a billion people were

37:41

infected and certainly lots of

37:43

people died. Independent analysts

37:46

say that an estimated 1.4 million people

37:48

died. This

37:51

kind of environment really changes your attitude

37:53

towards life. And in business, we thought

37:55

we're gonna have a comeback story. And

37:57

we had a good couple of

37:59

weeks. and then the economy basically has

38:01

been flat since. You

38:03

know, after COVID in the West,

38:05

in the United States particularly, we

38:08

did have a huge quick rebound.

38:11

Why didn't it happen here? Well,

38:13

I think that COVID also has covered up

38:15

a couple of long-term problems that China has

38:17

been building up, for example, in the real

38:19

estate sector. We reported on

38:21

the real estate sector 10 years

38:23

ago, with astonishing sites like

38:25

this, of empty buildings

38:28

in city after city across the

38:30

country. This

38:32

is today, similar hollowed

38:35

out wastelands of unoccupied

38:37

and unfinished apartments known

38:39

as ghost cities. When

38:42

I was here 10 years ago, I

38:44

never expected to see these

38:46

buildings still here. But

38:49

was a housing bubble back then grew and

38:53

finally exploded. This

38:55

real estate crisis lies at the

38:58

heart of China's economic decline. Has

39:01

anybody counted up the number of

39:04

empty units? I mean, across the

39:06

whole country? Well, the whole of

39:08

Germany, we have 82 million people, could move in

39:10

here right away, 80 to

39:12

90 million apartments are empty. 80

39:15

to 90 million apartments

39:17

are empty. Right, unfinished.

39:20

Over the years, Chinese banks

39:23

readily loaned money to the

39:25

developers, as the building

39:27

boom created millions of jobs

39:29

and propelled China's growth. But

39:33

in 2020, the government under President

39:35

Xi clamped down on the rampant

39:37

borrowing, causing the major developers

39:39

to default on their loans and run

39:42

out of money. Look

39:44

at that, the facade isn't even finished.

39:47

He says they couldn't even afford to

39:49

take down the cranes. In

39:52

January, Evergrande, once China's largest

39:54

developer, was ordered to liquidate

39:57

its remaining assets. Left

40:00

in the lurch are millions of

40:02

Chinese citizens who bought these apartments

40:04

before they were built. The

40:07

developers owe their customers that paid

40:09

up to the magnitude of

40:11

US$1 trillion. So if

40:14

I did a down payment on

40:16

one of these apartments, will I

40:18

ever see that money? No,

40:20

you will not see the money. It's gone,

40:22

it's vanished. It's finished. So I mean, it's

40:25

really dramatic. Ten years ago,

40:27

we were told that this was the

40:29

way people put money down for their

40:32

nest day. Right. For their retirement home.

40:34

Is that still the case? The

40:36

66%, two-thirds of a family

40:39

household average wealth is

40:41

in an apartment. That loss

40:43

of wealth has depressed consumer

40:45

spending and dragged down the

40:48

economy. We wondered if

40:50

the people blamed President Xi for

40:52

that or for the COVID death.

40:55

But it was impossible for us to

40:57

gauge public opinion or if it even

40:59

matters. While no one from the

41:01

government would give us an interview, we

41:03

were able to learn, as Jorg Witka, who's

41:05

lived here for 30 years, told us, it's

41:09

not a good idea to bet against

41:11

the Chinese people. What are some of

41:13

the positive aspects of

41:16

the economy here? They do

41:18

have a strong manufacturing base

41:20

still. Well, the big part is we,

41:22

between the ears of people, the brains

41:24

of the Chinese entrepreneurs that actually made

41:26

this success story happen. China

41:28

is not really good in basic research, but

41:31

they are fantastic in development. They're world champion

41:33

in actually making products better, faster and cheaper.

41:35

Are they better? Yes,

41:38

they are in some areas. Our Chinese

41:40

competitors are breathing down our neck and

41:42

basically drive some of us out the market. For

41:45

instance, China now makes over 80% of all

41:47

the solar panels in the world. It

41:51

dominates the wind turbine market.

41:53

It's poised to overtake Japan

41:55

as the world's biggest exporter

41:57

of cars and more.

42:00

They're the leading trade partner of twice as

42:02

many countries in the world as

42:05

the United States. So they have global range.

42:07

They're the leading trade partner. With over 60

42:09

countries in the world. And

42:11

now, with heavy government subsidies,

42:13

it is fast becoming the

42:15

leader in electric vehicles. Last

42:18

quarter, the carmaker BYD

42:21

surpassed Tesla as the

42:23

best-selling EV maker in the

42:25

world. Shanghai-based NIO

42:27

is trying to break through

42:30

with high-tech innovations. In

42:33

December, the company unveiled a new battery

42:35

with a driving range of 620 miles,

42:39

more than 200 miles further

42:41

than Tesla's top-end model. William

42:47

Lee, the CEO and founder of

42:49

NIO, says its battery

42:51

swap technology allows owners to

42:53

swap out their depleted battery

42:55

for a fully charged one

42:57

in under three minutes. Exactly.

43:01

It's two and a half

43:03

minutes. Two and a half

43:05

minutes. Yes. We already installed

43:07

2,200 swap stations all

43:09

around China. China

43:14

is also developing a humanoid

43:17

robot industry. Look

43:20

at that. The loss of year is coming true. Alex

43:24

Gu is the founder and

43:26

CEO of Fourier Intelligence. Last

43:29

year, he launched the GR1. Arm,

43:32

you can swing the arm. Yeah, you see?

43:34

Oh, look at the fingers. Oh,

43:36

my word. Can

43:39

you play the piano? Yeah, future.

43:41

Definitely. Also in

43:43

the future, he says, the robots

43:45

could provide health care for

43:48

China's rapidly aging population. Maybe

43:51

we can, for example, we can

43:53

remotely control such kind of robots

43:55

and help my grandpa,

43:58

for example. Yeah, I think. President

44:01

Xi, who visited this company

44:03

last year, has called for

44:05

the mass production of humanoids

44:07

by 2025. In

44:11

his annual New Year's speech, he

44:13

talked about the country's economic woes

44:16

and for the first time acknowledged

44:18

the high unemployment rate. Still,

44:21

he has laid out a long-term

44:23

goal of doubling China's economy by

44:25

2035 and surpassing the

44:29

West in technology. Our

44:31

companies and tech experts are

44:33

competing on AI and biotech

44:35

and quantum mathematics. All

44:38

those technological advances will

44:40

lead to a new generation

44:42

of military technology. Our two

44:44

militaries are vying for military supremacy.

44:47

Who's going to be the most powerful and

44:49

the most important strategic part of the world,

44:51

which is the Indo-Pacific. President

44:54

Biden and Xi met in

44:56

San Francisco in November in

44:59

hopes of re-establishing military communications

45:01

between our two countries, which

45:04

China had cut off. I

45:06

think we're back to a more settled

45:08

and stable relationship between the two countries,

45:10

but it's been a rollercoaster. The

45:12

low point, he says, was the

45:14

spy balloon incident last year. But

45:17

there's also been the buildup of military

45:19

bases in the South China Sea. The

45:23

increase of air sorties near

45:25

Taiwan and the buzzing

45:27

of U.S. military planes. Do

45:29

you see a lowering of the temperature

45:31

in the South China Sea? No.

45:35

And that's a problem. You don't. And

45:37

then in Taiwan, following Speaker Pelosi's

45:39

visit, we've seen now for 16 months

45:41

a much higher rate of Chinese

45:44

both air activity and naval activity.

45:46

That's very intimidating, meant

45:48

to intimidate the Taiwan authorities. They

45:52

haven't pulled back on that. And I think

45:54

ultimately they want to become and overtake the

45:56

United States as the dominant

45:58

country globally. and we don't want

46:01

that to happen. We don't want to live in a world

46:04

where the Chinese are the dominant country. When

46:06

the Cold War ended, we

46:09

all thought our system had won. Their

46:13

system failed. Our system rose

46:15

up. Now he's

46:17

come back and said, no, no,

46:19

the communist system's the right way. I

46:22

guess we didn't bury that after all. It's

46:26

interesting to compare the old Cold War

46:28

with this time. What

46:30

distinguishes this time versus the

46:32

old Cold War, the Soviet Union

46:34

had a strong military and nuclear

46:36

weapons. It had a very

46:39

weak economy, which in no way

46:41

competed with ours. China's

46:43

economy is very strong.

46:46

We're dealing with an adversary,

46:48

a competitor in China, stronger

46:51

than the Soviet Union was in

46:53

the 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. So

46:56

if that was a Cold War, what are you calling

46:58

this? It's a competition

47:01

of ideas, a battle of

47:04

ideas. Our idea,

47:06

America's big idea of

47:08

a democratic society and human freedom versus

47:11

China's idea that a communist state

47:14

is stronger than a democracy, we don't believe

47:16

that. So there's

47:18

a battle here as to whose ideas

47:21

should lead the world, and we believe those

47:23

are American ideas. Many

47:27

put their hope in Dr. Serhat. His

47:29

company was worth half a billion dollars.

47:32

His research promised groundbreaking treatments

47:34

for HIV and cancer. Scientists,

47:37

doctors, renowned experts were saying

47:39

genius, genius, genius. People that knew

47:41

him were convinced that he saved

47:43

their life. But the

47:45

brilliant doctor was hiding a secret.

47:58

This was a person who was willing to... to

48:00

cold-heartedly just lie to people's

48:03

faces. We're dealing with an

48:05

international fugitive. From

48:08

Wondery, the makers of Over My

48:10

Dead Body and the shrink next

48:12

door comes a new season of

48:14

Dr. Death, Bad Magic. You can

48:16

listen to Dr. Death's Bad Magic

48:19

ad-free by subscribing to Wondery Plus

48:21

in the Wondery app or on

48:23

Apple Podcasts. Catch

48:26

every episode of 60 Minutes,

48:28

America's most watched news magazine

48:31

show as a podcast, here,

48:33

in-depth investigations across politics, news

48:35

and entertainment on your schedule.

48:37

Listen to 60 Minutes ad-free

48:39

on Wondery Plus. Now

48:42

an update on our story this month on

48:44

the southern border called A Hole in the

48:47

System. About an hour

48:49

east of San Diego, we found migrants

48:51

entering the United States illegally. What

48:53

was remarkable was where many were coming

48:56

from. Through a gap between

48:58

the 30-foot steel border fence and rock.

49:02

We were surprised to see the number of

49:04

people coming through from China nearly

49:06

7,000 miles away. Careful,

49:10

watch. Our

49:14

cameras and at one point, this armed

49:16

border patrol agent standing 25 feet away

49:19

did not deter them. But

49:21

now, 60 Minutes can

49:23

report the Mexican government

49:26

has placed new outposts near that gap, blocking

49:29

the Chinese and other migrants. I'm

49:32

Ciaran Alfonsi. We'll be back

49:34

next week with another edition of 60 Minutes. You

49:51

can listen.