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1:44

tech's out to get conservatives. That's

1:46

not a suspicion. That's not a hunch. That's a

1:48

fact. Conservatives are making

1:50

serious legal challenges to the

1:52

question of what constitutes free

1:55

speech on social media sites.

1:58

What are facts? What is

2:00

misinformation and is policing

2:02

them censorship. All

2:05

of this being decided months

2:07

before the 2024 election. I

2:09

think you let the American people respect

2:12

the American people, their common sense, to

2:14

figure out what's accurate, what isn't. The

2:19

crisis on the US southern border has

2:21

emerged as one of the most important

2:23

issues in this year's presidential election. That

2:26

is this president, Mexico's controversial

2:29

Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador who

2:31

may have more control over what

2:33

happens there than anyone. Your

2:36

critics have said what you're doing

2:38

and what you're asking for to

2:40

help secure the border is diplomatic

2:42

blackmail. 168

2:46

countries, including China, have signed on to the

2:49

United Nations Law of the Sea, a

2:52

treaty that divvies up the international

2:54

seabed for the mining of precious

2:56

metals vital for everything from electric

2:58

cars to defense systems absent

3:01

from the treaty the United States.

3:04

The United States probably has got the

3:06

most to gain of any country

3:08

in the world if it were party to the

3:10

Law of the Sea Convention and conversely

3:12

we actually probably have the most to lose

3:15

by not being part of it. I'm

3:20

Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker.

3:22

I'm Sharon Alfonsi. I'm John Wertheim.

3:25

I'm Cecilia Vega. I'm Nora O'Donnell.

3:27

I'm Scott Pelli. Those stories

3:29

and more tonight on 60 Minutes.

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What makes a life a good one? Is

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of the above and more. You'll

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have to find out for yourself. Visit

4:52

gocoastguard.com to learn more. As

4:59

big tech firms wrestle with how

5:01

to keep false and harmful information

5:04

off their social networks, the

5:06

Supreme Court is wrestling with whether

5:09

platforms like Facebook and Twitter,

5:11

now called X, have

5:13

the right to decide what users can

5:16

say on their sites. The

5:18

dispute centers on a pair of laws

5:21

passed in the red states of Florida

5:23

and Texas over the question

5:25

of First Amendment rights on the internet.

5:28

The Supreme Court is considering whether

5:30

the platforms are like newspapers, which

5:33

have free speech rights to make their

5:35

own editorial decisions, or

5:38

if they're more like telephone

5:41

companies that merely transmit everyone's

5:43

speech. If the

5:45

laws are upheld, the platforms could

5:48

be forced to carry hate

5:50

speech and false medical information.

5:52

The very content most big tech

5:55

companies have spent years trying to

5:57

remove through teams of content.

6:00

moderators. But in

6:02

the process, conservatives claim that

6:04

the companies have engaged in

6:06

a conspiracy to suppress their

6:09

speech. As

6:11

in this case, a

6:13

tweet in 2022 from Congresswoman

6:16

Marjorie Taylor Greene falsely claiming

6:18

that there were extremely

6:20

high amounts of COVID

6:22

vaccine deaths. I have

6:24

not misled anyone. I have not put

6:27

out misinformation. Twitter eventually

6:29

banned Greene's personal account

6:31

from multiple violations of

6:33

its COVID policy. Facebook

6:36

and YouTube also removed

6:38

or labeled posts they

6:40

deemed misinformation. Big tech's

6:43

out to get conservatives. That's not

6:45

a suspicion. That's not a hunch. That's a fact.

6:47

Confronted with criticisms from

6:49

conservatives like Congressman Jim Jordan

6:52

that the social media companies were

6:54

censoring their views and because

6:57

of cost cutting, platforms began

6:59

downsizing their fact-checking teams.

7:02

So today, social media

7:04

is teeming with misinformation,

7:07

like these posts suggesting tanks

7:10

are moving across the Texas-Mexico

7:12

border. But it's actually

7:14

footage from Chile. These

7:17

are AI-generated images of,

7:20

well, see for yourself. With social

7:23

media moderation teams shrinking,

7:26

a new target is misinformation

7:28

academic researchers who began

7:31

working closely with the platforms

7:33

after evidence of Russian interference

7:35

online in the 2016 election.

7:39

Are researchers being chilled? Absolutely.

7:42

Kate Starboard is a professor at

7:44

the University of Washington, a former

7:47

professional basketball player and

7:50

a leader of a misinformation research

7:52

group created ahead of the 2020

7:54

election. election

8:00

processes, procedures, and election results.

8:03

And if we saw something about that, we would pass

8:05

it along to the platforms if we thought it violated

8:07

one of their policies. Here's

8:10

an example, a November

8:12

2020 tweet saying that

8:14

election software in Michigan

8:17

switched 6,000

8:19

votes from Trump to Biden. The

8:21

researchers alerted Twitter that then decided

8:24

to label it with a warning.

8:27

I understand that some of the

8:29

researchers, including you, have

8:32

had some threats against them. Death

8:34

threats. I have received one. Sometimes

8:37

there are threats with something behind them, and sometimes

8:39

they're just there to make you nervous and uncomfortable, and

8:41

it's hard to know the difference. This

8:44

campaign against you is meant

8:46

to discredit you, so we

8:48

won't believe you. Absolutely. It's interesting that

8:50

the people that pushed voter

8:52

fraud lies are some of the same people

8:54

that are trying to discredit researchers that are

8:56

trying to understand the problem. Did

8:59

your research find that

9:01

there was more misinformation spread

9:04

by conservatives? Absolutely. I think

9:06

not just our research, research across

9:08

the board looking at the 2020 election

9:11

found that there was more misinformation

9:15

spread by people that were supporters of

9:17

Donald Trump or conservatives. And

9:19

the events of January 6th kind of

9:21

underscore this. The

9:25

folks climbing up the Capitol building were

9:27

supporters of Donald Trump, and they were

9:30

misinformed by these false claims, and that

9:32

motivated those actions. This is wrong. We

9:34

know what's wrong, and it's about protecting

9:37

the First Amendment. Ohio Republican

9:39

Congressman Jim Jordan is chairman

9:41

of the House Judiciary Committee.

9:44

So how big a problem is

9:47

mis and disinformation on the web? Well,

9:50

I'm sure there's some, but I think our

9:52

concern is the bigger problem of the attack

9:55

on First Amendment liberties. Congressman

9:57

Jordan's Judiciary Committee Reduce

10:00

the report that concluded

10:02

there's a censorship industrial

10:05

complex where the Federal

10:07

government and tech companies

10:09

colluded with academic researchers

10:12

to disproportionately silence conservatives,

10:14

which case Starboard vigorously

10:16

denies. But. Congressman

10:18

Jordan says her group unfairly

10:21

flagged post like this: tweet

10:23

by Newt Gingrich. Pennsylvania

10:25

democrats are methodically changing the

10:28

rules so they can steal

10:30

the election. What? I

10:32

care about is the ability to speak

10:34

and to speak any political fashion, and

10:36

I have the government come after you

10:39

for doing so. Complains that government

10:41

officials put pressure on social

10:44

media companies. Directly, But it's

10:46

a great example. Thirty six hours

10:48

into the by demonstration the The Biden

10:50

White House since a email to

10:52

Twitter and says we think he should

10:54

take down this tweet a S

10:56

A P Just. A call a long

10:59

from the government he says can. Be

11:01

unnerving. It said have the government's say

11:03

hey we want you to do x

11:05

government who has the ability to regulate

11:07

these private companies govern was has the

11:09

billie do tax these private companies He.

11:11

Says that White House email to

11:14

Twitter involved a tweet from. Robert

11:16

F. Kennedy Jr. and everything in the

11:18

tweet was true. That. Tweet:

11:20

implied falsely. The. Baseball

11:23

legend Hank Aaron's death was

11:25

caused by the covered vaccine.

11:27

That, as they say, Goodbye! As

11:29

turns out, they did it. thank goodness

11:31

and Zappos! Is still up.

11:33

Kate Starboard says the social

11:36

media platforms also often ignored

11:38

the researchers' suggestions. The statistics

11:41

I've seen. Are just for the Twitter

11:43

platform but I have my understanding is and is

11:45

that they responded to about thirty percent of the

11:47

things that we set them and I think says

11:50

on the majority of those they put labels but

11:52

just a third such as the third young. Do

11:54

you suspect that says book. Was.

11:57

The Salamander. These platforms have their

11:59

own sources. rights. Katie

12:01

Harbeth spent a decade at

12:03

Facebook, where she helped develop

12:06

its policies around election misinformation.

12:09

When she was there, she says it

12:11

was not unusual for the government to

12:14

ask Facebook to remove content, which

12:16

is proper as long as the

12:19

government is not coercing. Conservatives

12:22

are alleging that the platforms were taking

12:24

down content at the behest of the

12:26

government, which is not true. But the

12:28

platforms made their own decisions, and

12:31

many times we were pushing back on the government.

12:34

Can we talk about a specific case? It

12:36

says Nancy Pelosi, it's a doctored

12:38

tape, where she looks

12:40

drunk. We want to give

12:42

this president the opportunity

12:45

to do something

12:47

historic. This was the

12:49

video of then House Speaker Pelosi posted

12:51

to Facebook in 2019, slowed down to

12:56

make it seem that she was slurring

12:58

her words. Did it

13:00

come down? It did not. Why?

13:03

Because it didn't violate the

13:05

policies that they had. So

13:08

did she put pressure on the company

13:10

to take it down? She was

13:12

definitely not pleased. She definitely wanted

13:14

the company, yes. And

13:17

it really damaged the relationship that the company

13:19

had with her. The

13:21

conservatives campaign faced a setback at

13:24

the Supreme Court on Monday when

13:26

a majority of the justices seemed

13:28

poised to reject their effort to

13:31

limit attempts by the government to

13:33

influence social media. The

13:35

court is deciding in separate

13:37

cases whether the platforms are

13:39

like news organizations, with a

13:41

First Amendment right to control

13:43

who and what information appears

13:45

on their sites. Congressman

13:48

Jordan argues that the tech companies

13:50

shouldn't remove most of what they

13:53

call misinformation. I think he let

13:55

the American people respect the American people,

13:57

their common sense, to figure out what

13:59

they want. What's after it? What is it?

14:01

Well, what about this idea that

14:03

the 2020 election was stolen? You

14:06

think that these companies should allow

14:08

people to say that and

14:11

individuals can make up their own mind and that

14:13

there should be- I think the American people are smart. Look,

14:16

I've not said that. What I've said is there were concerns about

14:19

the 2020 election. I think Americans agree

14:21

with that. No, they don't. You don't think

14:23

they think there were concerns with the 2020 election? Most

14:26

people don't question the result. That's

14:29

all I'm saying. They don't question whether

14:32

Biden won or not. Right?

14:35

Right? What? Most

14:38

people don't question the outcome. Right.

14:42

X basically did what Jordan

14:44

proposes. After Elon

14:46

Musk took over in 2022,

14:49

most of its fact checkers were fired.

14:52

Now the site is rife with trash

14:54

talk and lies. People

14:57

would you know that this, said to

14:59

be footage from Gaza, is really

15:02

from a video game. Eventually,

15:04

X users added a warning

15:07

label. In this

15:09

post, pictures of real babies killed

15:11

in Israeli strikes are

15:13

falsely dismissed as dolls. The

15:16

toothpaste is out of the tube and we

15:18

have to figure out how to deal with

15:20

the resulting mess. Darrell

15:22

West, a senior fellow of

15:25

technology innovation at the Brookings

15:27

Institution, says the

15:29

clash over what is true

15:31

is fraying our institutions and

15:34

threatening democracies around the world.

15:37

Half of the world is voting this

15:39

year and the world could stick

15:41

with democracy or move towards authoritarianism.

15:44

The danger is disinformation could decide the

15:46

elections in a number of different countries.

15:49

In the U.S., he says, the

15:51

right wing has been flooding the

15:54

Internet with reams of misleading information

15:56

in order to confuse the public.

15:59

And he's a- by the campaign

16:01

to silence the academic researchers who

16:04

have had to spend money and

16:06

time on demands from Jim Jordan's

16:08

Judiciary Committee. There

16:11

are people who make the

16:13

accusation that going after these

16:15

researchers, misinformation researchers,

16:18

is tantamount to harassment and

16:21

that your goal really is to chill

16:23

the research. I

16:26

find that it interesting to use the word chill

16:28

because in effect what

16:30

they're doing is chilling First Amendment free

16:32

speech rights. When they're working

16:34

in an effort to censor Americans

16:36

that's a chilling impact on speech.

16:39

They say what you're doing they do is

16:41

a violation of their First Amendment rights.

16:43

So us pointing out, us doing our

16:45

constitutional duty of oversight of the executive

16:47

branch and somehow we're

16:50

censoring that makes no sense. Americans

16:55

we're looking at the same thing and seeing

16:58

a different truth. Well you might see different things

17:00

I don't think you can see the different truth

17:02

because truth is truth. Okay the

17:04

researchers say they're being chilled. That's

17:07

their truth. Yeah. You're saying they're

17:09

not. So what's the truth?

17:12

They can do their research. God bless them do

17:14

all the research you want. Don't use don't don't

17:16

say we think this

17:18

particular tweet is not true and

17:22

our. Well that's their First Amendment right to

17:24

say that. Well they can say it but they can't

17:26

take it down. Well they can't take it down and

17:28

they don't they just send their

17:30

information to the companies. But when they're

17:32

coordinating with government that's a different animal. Okay

17:34

well of course they deny they're

17:36

coordinating. We just went round and

17:39

round. I wonder if there's

17:41

a way to like measure the

17:43

shifting meaning of misinformation. Starboard says

17:45

she and her team feel intimidated

17:48

by the conservatives campaign. So

17:50

while they will continue releasing their

17:52

research reports on misinformation

17:54

they will no longer send

17:57

their findings to the social

17:59

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Thank you Z-biotics for sponsoring this

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episode and our good times. Immigration,

19:41

the border, and the economy have

19:44

emerged as key issues in this

19:46

year's presidential election and may

19:48

determine who wins the White House. But

19:51

the person who could tip the scales

19:53

for either candidate is another president, Mexico's

19:56

president, Andres Manuel Lopez

19:59

Obrador. Widely known by his

20:01

initials am Low. Charismatic.

20:04

And often combative, Am Lou won

20:06

a landslide victory and twenty eighteen

20:08

on the promise to root out

20:10

corruption, reduce poverty and violent crime.

20:13

Now. Seventy years old and in the

20:16

final stretch. Of his term. We. Met

20:18

the President in Mexico City. For.

20:20

Candid conversation about his handling

20:22

of immigration trade, the federal

20:25

prices. And the cartels. And

20:27

he told us why He thinks when Donald

20:29

Trump says he's going to shut down the

20:31

border or build a wall. He's. Bluffing.

20:35

President. Trying to say you and civil the

20:37

wall again. A them by on the

20:39

campaign for. You don't think it actually

20:41

do it because Law is good, because he

20:44

needs Mexico or gay. Because we understood

20:46

each other very well, we signed in

20:48

economics a commercial agreement that has been

20:50

favorable for both peoples in the for

20:53

both nations. She. Knows it is

20:55

devices and President biden the same

20:57

philosophy. Know that wholesale that the law

20:59

works. Know. Who's it? doesn't work?

21:01

And. President Lopez Obrador says he told

21:04

that to then President Trump during a

21:06

phone call for what they were supposed

21:08

to be discussing the Pandemic. Nausea

21:10

be was an agreement not to speak about

21:12

the war because we were not going to

21:14

agree and then you talked about it is

21:17

how this that was the only time you'll

21:19

live of and I told him. I'm.

21:21

Going to send you Mister President. Some.

21:24

Videos of tunnels from Tijuana

21:26

up to San Diego. Do.

21:28

That since right under Us Customs.

21:31

He stayed in it. And. Then he started

21:33

last schools in told me. I can't

21:35

we you. We. Met President

21:38

Andrzej men well known as Over

21:40

Door and Mexico's National Palace earlier

21:42

this month with six months left

21:44

on his six. Year term Lopez

21:46

Oprah doors sour in Mexico and

21:48

influence in the United States has

21:51

never been greater. The

21:53

White House witnessed it here last December

21:55

when a record two hundred and fifty.

21:57

Thousand migrants overwhelm the you.

22:00

That and border. With Mexico. President.

22:02

Biden called you. He sent his Secretary of

22:04

state what did they say to you and

22:07

what did they ask? For from you thought

22:09

that I'm was the than the for us to

22:11

try and contain the flow of migration to do.

22:14

A. Month later Us Customs and.

22:16

Border. Patrol reported. The number of

22:18

migrant crossings, Dropped. By fifty

22:20

percent. So. What'd you do

22:23

between December and January? That

22:26

change that number so dramatically.

22:28

Is to be most. We were more careful

22:30

about our southern border. We spoke with the

22:33

Presidents of Central America and with the President

22:35

of Venezuela and with the President of

22:37

Cuba. We ask them for help and curbing

22:39

the flow of migrants however has it. So

22:41

that is a short term solution. On this

22:44

one is not a long term one. Mexico,

22:47

Also, increase patrols of the border, flying

22:49

some migrants to the southern part of

22:52

Mexico and deporting others. But. By

22:54

February the number of migrants crossing

22:56

into the U S began to

22:58

rise again, and the border Patrol

23:00

expects a sharp increase in that

23:02

number, displaying. Everybody thinks

23:04

you have the power in

23:06

the small slow down migration.

23:09

Do you plan to? Mezuzah We

23:11

do doubles. And. Wants to continue

23:13

doing and but we do want for the

23:15

root causes to be attended to. For.

23:18

Them to be seriously looked up. With

23:21

the you have the White House

23:23

President Lopez Obrador, suppose his six

23:25

of. The United States commit twenty

23:28

billion dollars a year to poor

23:30

countries in Latin America and the

23:32

Caribbean, lift sanctions and Venezuela and

23:35

it's even in bars or and

23:37

legalize millions of law abiding Mexicans

23:39

living in the Us. If

23:41

they don't do the things that you said

23:43

need to be done than what. Bar

23:46

for the flow of migrants.

23:48

his. His little considered audio.

23:51

Your critics have said what you're

23:53

doing, what you're asking for to

23:55

help secure the border as diplomatic

23:57

blackmail, what do you? Of learn

23:59

I'm sorry. Speaking frankly, we have

24:01

to say things as they are. And

24:04

I always say what I feel. I

24:06

always say what I think. If they

24:08

don't do those things, will you continue to help

24:10

to secure the border? Yes,

24:13

because our

24:16

relationship is very important. It

24:20

is fundamental. For

24:23

much of the last six years,

24:25

President Lopez Obrador has held a

24:27

televised 7 a.m. press conference five

24:29

days a week. During our visit,

24:32

he was dissecting fake news. The

24:34

briefing lasted more than two hours.

24:37

Is it a pulpit or is it a press conference? It

24:41

is a circular dialogue, even

24:43

though my opponents say that I'm on

24:45

a pulpit. Time

24:48

is the only luxury AMLO seems

24:50

comfortable spending. When he took

24:52

office, he sold the presidential jet and

24:54

his predecessor's fleet of bulletproof cars in

24:57

favor of his Volkswagen. He

25:00

uses his daily briefings to rail

25:02

against the elite and enemies real and

25:04

perceived. At times it can

25:06

feel like a political telenovela. At

25:09

a briefing last month, the president stunned

25:12

the audience when he read the cell

25:14

phone number of a New York Times

25:16

reporter who was pursuing what he viewed

25:18

as a critical story of him. It

25:20

looks like you were threatening that reporter. I

25:23

didn't do it with the intention of harming her. She,

25:26

like yourself, are public figures. And

25:30

I am as well. But you know

25:32

this is a dangerous place for reporters

25:34

and you know that threats often come

25:36

in texts and phones. When you put

25:38

her phone number up behind you, you

25:41

realize what you were doing. No, no,

25:43

no, no. Well, what did you think you were doing?

25:46

It's a form of responding to a libel.

25:49

Imagine what it means for this

25:51

reporter to write that the president

25:53

of Mexico has connections with drug

25:55

traffickers and without having

25:57

any proof. So

26:00

then why not just say it's not true?

26:03

Because libel, when it doesn't stain,

26:05

it smears. Lopez

26:08

Obrador's bare-knuckle brawls with the press

26:10

are in sharp contrast to the

26:12

softer approach he's taken with drug

26:14

cartels. He dissolved

26:16

the federal police and created a

26:18

national guard to take over public

26:20

security. And he invested millions

26:22

to create jobs for young people to

26:25

escape the grip of the cartels. According

26:27

to the Mexican government, homicides had

26:29

dropped almost 20 percent since he

26:31

took office. The president called

26:34

his approach hugs, not bullets. How

26:37

is that working out for Mexico? Very

26:39

well. There are still 30,000 homicides

26:42

in Mexico, and very few

26:44

of those are prosecuted. So

26:47

there's an idea that there's still lawlessness

26:49

in Mexico. Is that fair? Of

26:52

course we prosecute them. There's no

26:55

impunity in Mexico. They all get

26:57

prosecuted. It's a small percent. More

26:59

than before. According

27:02

to Mexico Evalia, a Mexican think tank,

27:04

about 5 percent of the

27:06

country's homicides are prosecuted. And

27:08

a study last year reported

27:10

cartels have expanded their reach,

27:12

employing an estimated 175,000

27:16

people to extort businesses and traffic

27:18

migrants and drugs into the U.S.

27:21

Can you reach the cartel and say knock it

27:24

off? What

27:26

you have to do with the criminals is apply the

27:28

law. But I'm not

27:30

going to establish contact, communication with

27:32

a criminal, the president of

27:34

Mexico. Are you saying you don't have to

27:36

reach out to them or communicate with them? Because

27:41

you cannot negotiate with criminals. The

27:43

head of the DEA says cartels

27:46

are mass-producing fentanyl. And

27:48

the U.S. State Department has said that most

27:50

of it is coming out of Mexico. Are

27:53

they wrong? Yes. Oh,

27:55

no. Or

27:57

rather, they don't have all the information. because

28:00

fentanyl is also produced in the United

28:02

States. The State Department says

28:04

most of it's coming from Mexico. Fentanyl

28:07

is produced in the United States, in

28:10

Canada, and in Mexico, and the

28:12

chemical precursors come from Asia. You

28:15

know why we don't have the

28:17

drug consumption that you have in

28:19

the United States? Because we have

28:22

customs, traditions, and we don't

28:24

have the problem of the disintegration of

28:26

the family. But there is drug

28:28

consumption in Mexico. But very little. So

28:31

why the violence then in Mexico? Because

28:35

drug trafficking exists, but not the consumption.

28:40

Lopez Obrador says threats by U.S.

28:42

lawmakers to shut down the border

28:44

to curb drug trafficking is little

28:46

more than saber rattling. That's

28:49

because last year, Mexico became

28:51

America's top trading partner. They

28:54

could say, we are going to close the

28:56

border, but we mutually need each other. What

28:59

would happen to the U.S. if they closed the

29:01

border? You would not be able to

29:03

buy inexpensive cars if the border is

29:05

closed. That is, you would

29:07

have to pay $10,000, $15,000 more for a car. I

29:12

plant us in Mexico. There are factories

29:14

in Mexico, and there are factories in

29:16

the United States that are

29:18

fundamental for all the consumers in the

29:21

United States and all the

29:23

consumers in Mexico. Last

29:25

year, the Mexican economy grew 3

29:27

percent, and unemployment hit a record

29:29

low. But critics say

29:31

Mexico's economic growth isn't because of

29:34

the president, rather in spite of

29:36

him. Lopez Obrador directed

29:38

billions to signature mega projects,

29:40

like an oil refinery in his home

29:42

state and

29:45

a railroad through the Yucatan jungle, costing

29:47

an estimated $28 billion. What

29:50

about infrastructure? Aren't there more

29:52

dire concerns? Like clean

29:55

water, roads, reliable energy when you're

29:57

trying to attract business to Mexico?

30:00

We're doing both, fixing

30:03

the roads and building this train. It

30:07

will link all the ancient Mayan

30:09

cities and is going to allow

30:11

Mexicans and tourists to enjoy a

30:13

paradise region. That is

30:15

the southeast of Mexico. Lopez

30:18

Obrador has spent unapologetically on

30:20

social programs, doubling the minimum

30:23

wage, increasing pensions and

30:25

scholarships. His approval rating

30:27

has remained high, upwards of 60 percent

30:30

for most of his presidency. Your

30:32

critics say that you're popular because you

30:35

give people money. What do you say?

30:38

I would say they're partly right. Our

30:42

formula is simple. It is not to

30:44

allow corruption, not to make for

30:46

an ostentatious government. For luxuries

30:49

and everything we save, we

30:52

allocate to the people. Do you think

30:54

that you've been able to get rid of the

30:56

corruption in Mexico? Yes. Completely?

31:01

Yes, basically, because

31:03

corruption in Mexico started from the top

31:06

down. The Transparency International

31:09

reports no improvement in the corruption

31:11

problems that have plagued Mexico for decades.

31:14

Huge crowds gathered last month, accusing

31:16

the president of trying to eliminate

31:19

the country's democratic checks and balances.

31:22

In June, Mexico will have one of

31:24

the largest elections in its history. In

31:27

addition to the presidency, 20,000 local

31:29

positions are up for grabs. The

31:32

cartels have funded and preyed on

31:34

local candidates. Last month,

31:37

two mayoral hopefuls were killed within

31:39

hours of each other, raising fears

31:41

of a bloody election. I

31:43

can travel throughout the entire country without a

31:45

problem. There is no region that I

31:47

cannot go and visit. The

31:50

number of government officials and candidates murdered rose

31:52

from 94 in 2018 to 355 last year.

31:58

You don't view that as a threat to you. obviously,

32:00

but do you view it as a threat

32:02

to democracy? No. There

32:05

are some specific instances. There

32:08

is no state repression. But

32:10

if a candidate is afraid to run

32:12

because they may be assassinated, isn't that

32:14

a threat to democracy? Generally,

32:17

they all participate. There

32:19

are many candidates from all the parties. His

32:22

hand-picked successor, Claudia Scheinbaum, has a

32:25

commanding lead in the polls and could become

32:27

Mexico's first female president.

32:30

Lopez Ovedor told us when he leaves office, he will

32:33

retire from politics and write books.

32:36

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32:38

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akin to the California

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Gold Rush is having a lot of fun. in

34:00

the Eastern Pacific, an international

34:02

mad dash, not for one

34:04

precious metal, but for vast

34:06

quantities of minerals scattered across the

34:09

ocean floor, vital for

34:11

everything from electric cars to defense

34:13

systems. To avoid a free-for-all,

34:15

168 countries,

34:18

including China, have signed on to

34:20

the United Nations Law of the

34:22

Sea, a treaty that divvies

34:24

up the international seabed. Conspicuously

34:27

absent is the United States, kept

34:29

out of the race by a

34:31

group of Republican senators who say

34:34

the treaty undermines American power. Despite

34:37

efforts by five presidents, ratifying the

34:39

treaty has hit a wall in

34:41

the Senate year after year. With

34:44

seabed mining set to begin next

34:46

year, China is in place to

34:48

dominate it. Now, a

34:50

group of former diplomats and military

34:52

leaders is trying again to break

34:54

the logjam in the Senate. A

34:59

thousand miles from U.S. waters

35:01

between Mexico and Hawaii lies

35:03

this patch of Pacific Ocean.

35:06

It looks tranquil, but

35:08

it's a locus of fierce competition. To

35:12

see what's at stake, you have to plunge

35:14

to the bottom. See those

35:19

potato-sized rocks? They're filled with

35:21

cobalt, nickel, manganese and copper,

35:23

some of the most valuable

35:25

metals on Earth. In 2019,

35:28

we went along on a pilot expedition as a crew with Canada's metals

35:35

company hauled its sunken treasure to

35:37

the surface. That many of

35:39

them down there. If they found deposit with this

35:41

much metal concentration on land, it

35:43

would be a bonanza that nobody would stop talking

35:45

about for years. Today, the race

35:48

is on for the estimated

35:50

trillions of dollars of strategic minerals

35:52

on the ocean floor vital for

35:55

next-generation electronics. Countries that

35:57

ratified the law of the Sea Treaty

35:59

now are testing giant

36:02

robots that vacuum

36:04

the minerals from the sea floor. They're

36:09

carving up and laying claim to parcels

36:11

on the seabed covered with rich balls

36:13

of ore. China

36:16

has five sites, 90,000 square

36:18

miles, the most of any

36:20

country. The United States, none,

36:24

blocked from even putting a toe in

36:26

the water by its refusal to ratify

36:28

the treaty. We are

36:30

not only not at the table, but we're

36:33

off the field. The United States

36:35

probably has got the most to gain of

36:37

any country in the world if it were

36:39

party to the Law of the Sea Convention.

36:42

And conversely, we actually probably have the most

36:44

to lose by not being

36:46

part of it. John Bellinger is a

36:49

partner at the D.C. law firm Arnold

36:51

and Porter. In 2012, he testified in

36:54

favor of the treaty at Senate hearings

36:56

as a former legal adviser to George

36:59

W. Bush. He told us

37:01

Bush was no fan of U.N.

37:03

treaties, but he supported this one,

37:06

not only for codifying access to

37:08

the deep seabed, but also for

37:10

safeguarding the free navigation of U.S.

37:13

ships around the world. Bellinger

37:15

told us support was so broad

37:17

in 2012, he thought it

37:19

would be a slam dunk. President

37:22

George W. Bush is in

37:24

favor. That's right. U.S. intelligence.

37:26

Yes. Military. Yes. Major

37:28

business groups. Big oil. Yes.

37:30

And environmental groups as well.

37:32

Hard to find any treaty

37:35

or probably any piece of

37:37

legislation that has such broad

37:39

support. Yet it failed.

37:41

The conservative Heritage Foundation convinced

37:43

34 Republican senators to turn

37:45

thumbs down, saying it would

37:47

subjugate the United States to

37:50

the U.N. My problem

37:52

is with sovereignty. The

37:54

law of the sea was sunk. It

37:57

surprised me that a number of

37:59

senators would tell us in the

38:01

government, we know better than you.

38:05

We know better than our U.S.

38:07

military. We know better than U.S.

38:10

business. Does the American position

38:13

make any sense to you? It

38:16

honestly does not. The opposition was

38:19

not on national security reasons

38:21

or on business reasons.

38:24

It to me seemed just a

38:27

reflexive ideological opposition

38:30

to joining the treaty. Since

38:33

2012, while repeated attempts to

38:35

ratify the treaty have failed,

38:37

China has made deep-sea mining

38:39

a national priority. It

38:41

already has a near monopoly of the

38:44

critical minerals on land. Now

38:46

it's set to lock up the bounty on

38:48

the seafloor. Ambassador John

38:50

Negroponte, a former director of

38:52

national intelligence in the Bush

38:54

administration, told us China's

38:57

aggressive actions should be setting

38:59

off alarms. What's changed since

39:01

2012? The

39:03

People's Republic of China and its

39:06

more assertive behavior on

39:08

the international scene, particularly in

39:11

the South China Sea, and

39:14

then with respect to deep-sea

39:16

bed mining, they're eating our lunch.

39:19

They've got access to five sites.

39:22

Right now we have access to none. John

39:25

Negroponte is one of a number

39:27

of senior Republicans urging the Senate

39:30

to reconsider and ratify the treaty.

39:33

If it doesn't, the U.S. can't

39:35

get a license from the UN-backed

39:37

International Seabed Authority to mine the

39:39

ocean bottom. It

39:42

won't have a say in drafting environmental rules

39:44

for mining the deep. Absent

39:46

the U.S., China is the heavyweight in

39:48

the room. members

40:00

of the seabed authority, we're not going to

40:02

have a voice in writing the

40:04

environmental guidelines for deep

40:07

seabed mining. Well, who would you

40:09

prefer to see writing those guidelines,

40:11

the People's Republic of China or

40:14

the United States of America? It

40:16

just doesn't make sense to a conservative to

40:19

say these minerals that are in the

40:21

deep seabed are so important to

40:23

the United States. We are done without those.

40:25

Let's put an international bureaucracy in charge

40:27

of getting us access to

40:30

them. Stephen Groves is a senior policy

40:32

analyst at the Heritage Foundation. He was

40:34

a special counsel in Donald Trump's White

40:37

House. In 2012, Groves

40:39

testified that the U.S. didn't

40:41

need anyone's permission to mine

40:44

the seabed. His views haven't

40:46

changed. What businessman in the

40:48

right mind said, I'm

40:50

going to invest tens of billions of

40:52

dollars into a company that

40:54

I will then have to go and ask

40:57

permission from an international organization

40:59

to engage in deep seabed mining.

41:01

But no general

41:03

counsel, no board of a

41:05

company, if faced

41:07

with a clear right under a

41:09

treaty that says you can go

41:11

and do this or

41:14

taking an action that's flatly contrary

41:16

to the treaty, of

41:18

course, the companies are going to

41:20

say, I want to take the

41:23

clearly lawful route before I invest

41:25

billions of dollars. Lawyer

41:28

John Bellinger told us U.S. companies

41:30

interested in mining the seabed want

41:32

the legal guarantees of the treaty.

41:35

But even as other countries move ahead,

41:38

Stephen Groves insists American companies

41:40

are staying away not because

41:42

the U.S. hasn't ratified a

41:44

treaty, but because deep

41:46

sea mining isn't viable. If

41:49

China wants to go and think that it's

41:51

economically feasible to drag those nodules up to

41:53

the surface and process them, let

41:55

them do it. The United States has decided to

41:58

stay out of the game. U.S.

42:00

company that had rights to the deep

42:02

sea bed got out of the game.

42:04

That's Lockheed Martin. U.S. companies will tell

42:06

you it's because there's uncertainty. What U.S.

42:09

companies? Lockheed. Lockheed

42:11

is out of the game. Lockheed will tell

42:13

you that their investors, their counsel all

42:15

say, if we don't have this treaty,

42:17

we're not getting into this. They're already

42:19

out of it. They quit. Because

42:22

we are not supporting them in any

42:24

way. That's a business decision they made.

42:27

Lockheed Martin has not quit. The

42:29

defense giant had rights to four

42:31

Pacific sea bed sites. It sold

42:34

to and is holding on to two in

42:36

case the treaty passes. But

42:38

Lockheed told us if the U.S.

42:41

doesn't ratify the treaty, it can't

42:43

dive in. Ambassador

42:45

John Negroponte told us the Heritage

42:47

Foundation is standing in the way.

42:50

What Heritage is saying is we don't even want to

42:52

give them a chance. We

42:54

know the answer already. I

42:58

think that's sort of hypothetical

43:01

thinking. The pragmatic approach would be to

43:03

say, okay, let us have access

43:05

and see what happens. We could

43:07

end up being even

43:09

more dependent than we are today on

43:13

China for access to

43:15

these minerals. If

43:18

they end up being the largest producer

43:20

and we're not producing at all, that

43:23

might place us in a difficult

43:26

economic position. But

43:29

national security fears of China's growing

43:31

prowess in the deep are about

43:33

more than mining. Last

43:35

week, a letter signed by 346 former

43:39

political, national security and

43:41

military leaders warned

43:43

that China was taking advantage

43:45

of America's absence from the

43:47

treaty to pursue overall naval

43:50

supremacy. Over the last decade, and

43:52

I've done the math, China has built

43:54

20 percent more

43:56

warships by tonnage than the United States

43:58

Navy has. 160

44:01

warships where the US Navy built 66. It

44:04

is a truly massive expansion

44:06

in naval power. Thomas Shugart

44:08

is a former US Navy

44:10

submarine warfare officer and

44:12

a senior fellow at the Center for

44:15

a New American Security. He

44:17

told us China is flexing its

44:19

maritime muscle by claiming the South

44:21

China Sea as its private ocean.

44:24

It has challenged the treaty's

44:26

navigation laws that ensure safe

44:28

passage by harassing passing ships,

44:30

including the US Navy. It

44:33

has fired water cannons at its neighbors, caused

44:36

collisions, even

44:41

flashed a military-grade laser at ships.

44:44

Steven Groves at the Heritage Foundation

44:46

says that's why the treaty is

44:48

meaningless. It's China who is a

44:50

party to the treaty who

44:53

doesn't obey the rules of the road. They're

44:55

the ones getting into near

44:57

collisions with US vessels in the

44:59

South China Sea. The United

45:01

States respects and

45:04

adheres to international law. It is

45:06

the Chinese who are the scofflaws

45:08

here. And the idea that the

45:11

US joining the treaty would somehow

45:13

change that Chinese behavior has no

45:15

basis in reality. Every

45:17

time the US points at them and says you're violating

45:19

the law, they very quickly turn back and

45:21

say, well, you're not a signatory, so what do you have

45:23

to say about it? We are in a messaging

45:26

contest and an effort to win hearts

45:28

and minds all over the world against

45:30

what is clearly our greatest strategic competitor.

45:33

Former submarine captain Thomas Shugart

45:35

told us being outside the

45:37

treaty undercuts American credibility while

45:40

China is laser focused on

45:42

building its maritime power. He

45:45

told us China's deep sea miners have

45:47

a second mission, collecting information

45:50

for the Chinese military. The

45:52

technology that these companies use to

45:55

mine the seabed, do

45:57

they also have a military application?

45:59

Absolutely. If you're going to find submarines

46:01

in the ocean, you need to know what the bottom

46:03

looks like. You need to know what the

46:05

temperature is. You need to know what the salinity is. If

46:08

China is using civilian vessels to sort

46:10

of on the slide do those surveys,

46:12

then that improves, could improve their ability

46:15

to find U.S. and allied

46:17

submarines over time as they better understand

46:19

that undersea environment. Back

46:21

in D.C., Ambassador Negroponte's group

46:23

is lobbying the Republican holdouts.

46:26

We decided to call the senators who

46:28

torpedoed the treaty in 2012 to

46:31

see if anything had changed. We

46:33

found their opposition as strong as

46:35

ever. With the

46:38

U.S. Senate locked in stalemate,

46:40

China is forging ahead. Welding

46:51

instructor Alex DeClair knows VR training

46:53

platforms like ForgeFX help students master

46:56

their skills. There's a big learning

46:58

curve with welding. Virtual reality simulates that

47:00

exact muscle memory that they need. Learn

47:03

more at meta.com slash metaverse impact.

47:07

It's harder to focus than ever these days. Thankfully,

47:10

C4 has reinvented the energy

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drink game with C4 Smart

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Energy, the only energy drink

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clinically proven to provide enhanced

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mental focus. Containing 200 milligram

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of natural caffeine, a blend of

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vitamins and zero sugar, it was

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formulated to support your well-being and

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help you feel your best, all while

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enhancing mental focus. From your brain

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to your body, C4 Smart Energy

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does it all and tastes

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amazing. Look for Smart

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Energy in the beverage aisle at

47:42

your local Kroger, Albertsons and Safeway

47:44

grocery stores. C4 Smart Energy. Stay

47:47

focused. Now,

47:49

an update on a story from earlier

47:51

this month called Operation Lone Star. A

47:54

new Texas law bypasses the federal

47:56

immigration system by giving state and

47:58

local law enforcement agencies, authority

48:01

to arrest, detain, and deport migrants

48:03

who enter the state illegally. Governor

48:06

Greg Abbott says the U.S. Constitution

48:08

gives the states the right to repel

48:10

what he calls an invasion. Do

48:13

you really, truly believe that

48:15

invasion is the right

48:17

word to be using here? Invasion

48:20

is the word that's used in the United

48:22

States Constitution. Invasion or

48:24

imminent danger? I use them both. This

48:27

past week, federal courts considered whether

48:29

the law should be put on hold

48:32

while its constitutionality is decided. The

48:34

Supreme Court removed that stay only

48:36

to have it renewed by Fifth Circuit

48:39

judges while they consider the arguments. The

48:41

Texas law's fate, like the

48:43

border crisis, remains unresolved. I'm

48:46

Cecilia Vega. We'll be back next week

48:48

with another edition of 60 Minutes. Hey,

48:54

members, you can listen to 60 Minutes

48:56

ad-free on Amazon Music, download

48:58

the Amazon Music app today,

49:01

or you can listen ad-free

49:03

with Wondery Plus and Apple

49:05

Podcasts. Before you go,

49:07

tell us about yourself by

49:09

completing a short survey at

49:12

wondery.com/survey. Experiences

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are what people love the most about travel. That's

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One app, over 300,000 travel experiences

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you'll remember. Do more with Viator.

49:43

In the 1980s, Frank Faryon was

49:45

riding high as a successful German

49:47

music producer, but he was bored.

49:49

German pop was formulaic, dull, and

49:51

oh so white. Frank had bigger

49:53

dreams, American dreams. He wanted to

49:55

create the kind of music that

49:57

would rival larger than life artists.

50:00

like Michael Jackson or Ron DMC. So

50:02

he assembled a hip hop duo, two

50:04

once-in-a-lifetime talents who were charismatic, full of

50:06

sex appeal, and phenomenal dancers. The only

50:09

problem? One very important element was missing,

50:11

but Frank knew just how to do

50:13

it.