0:14

Pushkin.

0:30

All I think about besides

0:33

my kids, are these pills? How many

0:35

can I take? When can I take them? Where can I get them?

0:37

How can I keep it a secret? I

0:40

was a full blown attic and

0:43

I was a full time

0:46

mom.

0:47

Shortly after Laura Cathcart Robins

0:49

had her second child, she developed

0:51

a crippling anxiety disorder and severe

0:54

insomnia. Within a few

0:56

years, she was addicted to sleeping pills.

0:59

Laura was ashamed. She felt

1:01

like motherhood came so much more easily to

1:03

her friends, and so for years

1:06

she kept her addiction a secret, until

1:08

one day she reached a breaking point.

1:11

The mom that I imagine

1:14

myself to be that I needed everyone to see

1:16

me as failed. That

1:20

image shattered.

1:24

On today's episode when the mask

1:27

of perfection falls away, I'm

1:32

Maya Shunker and this is a slight change

1:34

of plans, a show about who we

1:36

are and who we become in the face

1:38

of a big change.

1:50

Laura wrote a memoir called Stash

1:52

My Life in Hiding, and in

1:54

it she describes a difficult childhood

1:57

and how she eventually worked her way into

1:59

an entertainment publicist job in Los

2:01

Angeles. That's where she met her

2:03

husband, a film and TV producer,

2:06

and they became a sort of Hollywood power

2:08

couple. Laura loved the

2:10

glissy, fantastical world of entertainment,

2:13

a world where she could hang out on TV sets

2:16

and catch a ride with celebrities on their

2:18

private jets.

2:20

I was new to this world.

2:23

You know.

2:23

The world I had grown up in was very poor.

2:26

My mother was on welfare, like

2:28

shoplifting groceries on welfare kind

2:30

of thing. So this very

2:32

lux world was new to me and very glamorous.

2:35

And I had grown up in front of the TV. Everything

2:38

that I wanted to be was on television, and

2:41

so now here I was immersed in this world

2:43

that I had grown up watching, and

2:46

I embraced that.

2:47

Moment you mentioned that everything

2:49

you wanted to be was on TV, tell me a bit

2:51

more about that. What do you mean by that?

2:54

I mean, that's how I knew what adults

2:56

were like. That's how I knew what adults

2:58

did. Like all these different

3:01

aspects of who one could

3:03

be. One could be someone who worked for the city,

3:05

or you know, when the Cosby Show came along,

3:08

you could be a doctor in a lawyer, even if you were black.

3:10

You know, like all these things opened

3:12

up, all these possibilities for me. But

3:15

I also loved the shows themselves.

3:17

I loved the actors, I loved the

3:20

idea of the costumes and what went

3:22

behind them. I was able to really

3:24

enjoy both sides of it, the fantasy aspect

3:27

and the reality of what it took to make the

3:29

shows.

3:31

And I mean, I know you had a really challenging

3:34

childhood. You had a verbally abusive

3:36

stepfather, and you mentioned getting

3:38

swept up in the fantasy of TV. Was TV

3:41

and these visions of adult life a form of escapism

3:44

for you?

3:45

One hundred percent? I absolutely

3:47

went there to escape from

3:49

the reality of what was going on in

3:51

my home, which was emotional abuse.

3:54

Like you said, so.

3:55

You're living this really glamorous

3:58

Hollywood life and your husband are living

4:00

it up. And so tell me a little bit more about what motivated

4:02

you to become a mom.

4:05

I don't ever remember being that child

4:08

or that teenager, that young adult who was

4:10

like I want to have babies, like

4:12

I can't wait to have babies. That

4:15

was really never me. I never really took

4:17

much interest in other people's children. I

4:19

was not the babysitting kid, but

4:22

I assumed, you know, again,

4:24

going back to television, this is what happens,

4:26

right. You fall in love, you get married,

4:28

you have kids. So that was going

4:31

to be next for me. I wasn't at verse to it.

4:33

I just didn't want it. I

4:35

didn't want it the way I wanted the other things,

4:38

like the glamour, my career, the stability,

4:41

the romance and

4:43

it. You know, I have a peer group and

4:46

they were all getting married and

4:49

excited about having kids, you know. And

4:51

part of my deal growing up in my house

4:54

was that, because it was a violent home, not

4:59

standing out, keeping myself small

5:02

allowed me to survive in my home,

5:05

and I carried that with me into adulthood.

5:07

I didn't want to stand out from my peers

5:09

in that way. I wanted to want the

5:11

same things they wanted, or at least I wanted it

5:13

to look like I did.

5:16

So you mentioned the context

5:18

around your stepfather and never

5:20

wanting to stand out right because that

5:22

might come with punishment towards I mean

5:25

verbal punishment for you, and then from

5:27

what I've read, physical violence

5:29

towards your mother. Were there any other

5:32

factors based on how you grew up that led

5:34

you to not want to stand out?

5:36

I think really it all kind of stems

5:38

from the way that it was in my home, and

5:41

the way that I was in my home is just like you

5:43

know, who I was authentically just rubbed him

5:45

the wrong way, so I

5:48

could be another version of myself,

5:50

an edited version, and be okay.

5:53

I certainly took that out into the world

5:55

with me, right, So I learned

5:57

to edit anything

6:00

that either didn't blend in

6:02

or made me stand out, or that

6:04

seemed to not be met with enthusiasm,

6:09

you know. And I was the only black kid in my entire

6:11

school for a long time. My

6:13

day to day was I was surrounded

6:15

by all white kids, and that's

6:17

another reason for me not to want to stand out.

6:20

And I have an undiagnosed

6:22

language based learning disorder. Is what I

6:24

believe. Can't do math, can't

6:27

figure out numbers, never could. By

6:30

the time I got to Hay School, I was

6:32

hiding my inability, you know,

6:34

my confusion around math and the inability

6:36

to even just do a simple problem.

6:39

So I dropped out in the tenth grade

6:41

because I started failing all my classes

6:44

and didn't really tell people

6:47

about that. I kept showing up to campus

6:49

like I was still going to class for a while

6:51

and I wasn't. And so

6:54

all these things, right, this the

6:56

way that I was being the only black person in

6:58

my school, being the only one who dropped

7:00

out, being the only one who never

7:02

went to college. All these

7:05

things were things that I felt like I

7:08

needed to contain

7:10

somewhere far away so that no one would ever

7:12

discover it.

7:13

Yeah, it makes so much sense. You're hiding, and you're also you're

7:16

playing the part, yes, of what you

7:18

feel other people expect of you

7:20

or are performing themselves. And so as

7:22

we discussed the next correct step for

7:24

you was to have kids, and you

7:26

ended up having two boys within a two

7:29

year timeframe. Laura,

7:32

what was the experience like for you after

7:34

your second was born and what

7:37

role did your expectations play in all of this around

7:39

what you thought it was going to be?

7:40

Like, Yeah, so you

7:42

know, I I told

7:44

you all the things that I wasn't just now

7:47

that I wasn't a college graduate. I wasn't a high

7:49

school graduate. But because

7:52

I had hustled my whole life, and because I figured

7:55

things out, and because I had done really well

7:57

in my career, I

7:59

was just going to slay motherhood, like for

8:01

sure, that's a given. This is the

8:03

next challenge to bring it on. Like

8:06

I didn't have any experience with it, but I had

8:08

been and I

8:11

had seen other people doing it. So I was

8:14

told it was going

8:16

to be hard by my peers.

8:19

I was told it was going to be hard by my mom.

8:21

I did not believe any of them. I

8:24

just felt like I have the whole package

8:26

to be able to really do great.

8:29

And I was really

8:32

surprised by

8:34

how not great. Now I shouldn't say that

8:36

I wasn't great, but how

8:39

ill equipped I felt, And

8:41

especially after my second son was born,

8:44

I remember

8:46

that whole time period. Is like

8:48

I remember the first time I

8:51

went under the water in the ocean and

8:53

the waves were kind of moving me around and

8:56

I could see like the bubbles going up, and I

8:58

really was just like I'm

9:00

lost, Like I was scared, right. I

9:02

remember that feeling of kind of being clobbered

9:05

by it and taken under, And

9:07

that's what it felt like to me. I

9:10

was doing everything

9:12

that I was supposed to be doing. I

9:15

looked like I was okay, but I felt

9:18

like I was underneath the waves getting

9:20

cloppered. Being a new mom

9:23

among other new moms, was

9:25

or just other mothers? Was I

9:28

mean that I'm

9:30

going to use the word humiliating, And

9:33

I don't know that it's quite accurate, but that's

9:35

the way it felt at times,

9:37

and I needed desperately

9:40

to hide my ineptness around

9:43

them. I didn't know how to do what they did.

9:45

I was always comparing what

9:48

I was doing with them, and I felt

9:50

like I was always coming up short. But I

9:52

wouldn't let anybody see that. It

9:55

just wasn't anything that I had

9:58

imagined it would be. It really wasn't.

10:00

And as

10:03

I had prepared for a lot of things in my life, I

10:05

wasn't prepared for this. I

10:08

have kids that it just really didn't

10:10

sleep well unless

10:12

I was near them, which you

10:15

know, maybe my fault, maybe not my

10:17

fault, maybe just how way they were designed. But

10:20

they would only really knock out

10:22

when they were in my presence. So

10:25

putting them to bed meant, you know, two

10:27

hours later, one of them starts

10:29

crying, wakes the other one up. Toddler comes

10:32

running in. He's wet is bed, So

10:34

now I have to change that. I put him in mind

10:37

while I'm changing his so maybe he can

10:39

stay sedated, you know, like

10:42

and and he hops up and down.

10:44

The other ones up and so

10:46

it was like that. It was like, you know, all

10:48

night long, I was changing sheets, I was changing

10:50

beds. Eventually, at the end of the

10:53

night, I was bringing them both into

10:55

bed with me. That's the way it went.

10:57

I didn't know what else to do yet,

10:59

know how I was going to get the three hours

11:01

of sleep I was going to need in order to start

11:04

the day over the next day. Because my

11:06

husband was usually working, he was out

11:08

of the house, you know, and he

11:10

was back late, and so

11:13

I was on again come seven

11:15

am. It wasn't like I had the day

11:17

off after being up all night.

11:19

Basically, yeah, you know,

11:21

it's so interesting when

11:23

we think about ideals

11:25

of motherhood and models of motherhood, because

11:28

I still heard in the language you use culpability.

11:31

You said, I have two kids that just didn't really sleep,

11:33

and like maybe it was my fault, maybe it wasn't.

11:36

And I think that's part of the challenge.

11:39

And I see women especially, I think

11:41

maybe parents do this across the board, but they

11:44

feel this sense of moral

11:46

responsibility and blame no

11:48

matter what the outcomes, and it

11:51

just strikes me that it can really set everyone up for

11:53

failure. It's an unreasonable goal.

11:57

I heard myself say that too, and

11:59

I

12:02

I think that that fault finding,

12:05

especially with parenting. It

12:08

feels like everyone feels like that's their job.

12:11

Yeah, totally into what's going on with

12:13

you and your kids, and then they want to be able

12:15

to diagnose it, say

12:17

whose fault it is, and then give you the solution,

12:20

right, Yeah, and usually

12:22

unsolicited. So

12:24

this is another reason, and thank you for

12:26

bringing that up. Why I didn't let people

12:29

see that I was struggling. I

12:31

didn't want that invasion

12:34

into what I was doing. I didn't want the unsolicited

12:37

advice. I didn't want to try

12:39

what worked for them.

12:40

Yeah, when you when

12:43

you had images in your mind of the

12:45

perfect ideal mom,

12:48

the perfect Laura in her role as mother,

12:51

what did that look like to you?

12:53

So it definitely looked like getting

12:56

myself together before I left the house, looking

12:58

like a together person when I dropped

13:00

off my kids, being interested

13:03

in, being involved in whatever they were

13:05

doing, being the type of parent

13:08

that other parents could count on, being

13:10

the person who had the house that

13:12

everybody's kids wanted to go to,

13:15

being the field trip parent, you

13:17

know, being like those were the parents

13:20

I saw and emulated. I

13:22

wanted to be like them. The

13:24

missing ingredient, I think from

13:27

you, because I did all that stuff was

13:29

cheerfully. I

13:31

wanted to cheerfully be the mom who

13:33

showed up. I wanted it to be genuine.

13:36

I didn't want to just go through the motions

13:39

doing that stuff, which is what I was doing. I

13:42

really wanted to do it cheerfully,

13:44

and I didn't. That was the ingredient.

13:46

I couldn't figure out how to

13:48

source it, Like where does that come from?

13:50

When you're exhausted from the night

13:53

before and you're exhausted all day long? I didn't

13:55

understand.

13:57

It strikes me that it's a really tall order for

13:59

Laura to be telling herself, you

14:02

not only need to do all these things that

14:04

embody perfect motherhood,

14:07

you need to want to want to do all those things

14:09

right. And I'm just so curious to

14:11

know. I mean, where did those high expectations

14:14

come from? Like? Why were you expecting

14:16

this of yourself?

14:19

The best I can figure is

14:21

that because my

14:23

ex husband and I were were this interracial

14:26

power couple in Hollywood, we enjoyed

14:29

this status, you know, and

14:31

I did enjoy it. I very much enjoyed it

14:34

and the status of you know, obviously,

14:36

no one's perfect, but it felt like people

14:39

always said that to us, you guys are the perfect couple.

14:41

You guys had the perfect marriage, you had the perfect

14:43

wedding, and it was like perfect,

14:46

perfect, perfect, And it just

14:48

followed to me. It

14:50

tracked that I should then be the perfect mom,

14:53

right, the mom who hears

14:56

all these same compliments. You're

14:58

the perfect mom. I wish I could be more like

15:00

you. You're always here, You're

15:02

always there, You're always doing this. And

15:04

I did see women doing

15:07

the things that I was doing before

15:09

I started doing them. I was watching and observing

15:12

kind of like, this is the path for

15:15

the dope moms, right, All the cool

15:18

moms are on this path. The ones

15:20

that are off that path aren't

15:22

as well regarded. The ones who

15:24

openly talked about having postpartum

15:27

anything were secretly

15:29

judged by small groups. I'm

15:32

sure I was included in those groups. Yeah,

15:34

So like things like that, I didn't want

15:36

to be that knew, I knew what it was like.

15:39

I wanted to be on that path toward

15:42

being like the epitome the cool

15:44

mom.

15:46

So you mentioned, you know, by the end of the night, every night

15:48

your boys end up in the bed with you, and you were full

15:51

time caregiver at this point because your husband's either

15:53

working or traveling. You

15:55

ended up developing pretty debilitating

15:58

insomnia.

16:00

I had this anxiety that's

16:02

not the typical anxiety I hear new parents

16:05

talking about. I wasn't like

16:07

worried they weren't breathing or were something

16:09

was going to happen to them all the time. That

16:11

wasn't my worry. My worry was that they

16:14

were going to meet me and I wasn't going to hear them.

16:17

That killed me. The

16:19

idea that they would wake up

16:22

and say mommy or cry and I

16:24

might not hear them, or they might

16:26

cry for too long. So I

16:29

didn't know what was going on with me, but I

16:31

I was on edge. I was irritable,

16:34

I was anxious. I was just

16:36

short tempered with everybody, and I just wanted everybody

16:38

to go away except for my kids.

16:42

And I wanted to cry maya

16:44

in the middle of those nights, like you know, the second

16:46

change of sheets. Most of the time, I would

16:48

sit there just almost like you

16:50

know, like dry heaving to throw up. I would be like dry

16:53

crying, like just like it wouldn't

16:55

come out. I was so depleted,

16:57

I wouldn't even have tears. And

17:00

so I saw a doctor, and you

17:03

know, I told him what was going on, and He's like,

17:05

so, how long has it been since you haven't slept?

17:07

And I told him and he's like, okay,

17:09

we got to get you sleeping first. I

17:11

can't even diagnose you until

17:14

we've gotten you sleeping for a little bit. And

17:17

he gave me a pill that I had never heard of

17:19

at the time. You know, this was in the early two

17:21

thousands, called Ambion,

17:25

and I

17:28

took it that night. You

17:31

know, I'm sitting there waiting

17:34

for this pill to take effect,

17:36

hoping for sleep, and then

17:38

this heat starts rising

17:41

behind my eyes. And at

17:43

first it's a little scary because I hadn't

17:45

experienced anything like that. It feels

17:48

like warm oil is

17:51

just entering my body and

17:53

flowing through me. It

17:56

was the most incredible feeling

17:58

that I've ever had. But

18:00

the thing that followed was even better.

18:03

Everything clicked off. The alarm

18:05

bell that had been ringing in my head for

18:08

two plus this year is stopped ringing.

18:11

The first time it was silenced, And

18:15

I mean, I can't tell you what that meant

18:17

like, to not know that there's an alarm bell

18:19

ringing in your head for two years, to not know

18:21

that your nerve endings are frayed

18:24

and on edge and then it was just,

18:27

ah, this is

18:29

what's been missing. I felt

18:31

freed in that moment in a way

18:34

that I hadn't been before, and

18:36

I realized, oh my goodness,

18:38

with this, I can be that

18:41

mom that my kids deserve, you

18:43

know, not the one who's just going through the motions

18:45

every day doing what she needs

18:47

to do. I can be the mom who

18:49

wants to do this stuff. And

18:51

I wanted to just grab up my kids

18:54

and say, I am so sorry I've

18:56

been this crazy mom. Things are going to be

18:58

different, We're all going

19:00

to be okay.

19:02

Yeah, So how did your

19:04

relationship then with Ambion evolve

19:07

over time?

19:09

So after that first night, that

19:11

blissful sleep, I woke up and

19:13

the first thing that popped into my head

19:16

two words again

19:18

please. Like I said, I

19:20

had this kind of new lease on life and

19:22

I wanted to go and experience

19:25

that with my kids because I felt rested.

19:27

And you know, for anybody insomnia

19:30

or not, when you have a good night's sleep,

19:32

yeah, feeling of being rested and

19:35

ready to tackle the day is like

19:37

if we could bottle that, put

19:39

in a little pill. No, but it's just

19:41

the best feeling. So I had that feeling. I

19:44

didn't feel like I needed

19:46

to take another one right away, but

19:50

I wanted to, but I didn't feel

19:52

like I needed to. And at that point

19:55

where I was and in my addiction, I

19:58

think that my ability to

20:00

distinguish what you need and want was

20:02

clear. Like I didn't

20:05

run through a bottle really quickly, not

20:07

until the second year, when I I was taking them every

20:10

night. As

20:13

things progressed, it was like, not just one

20:15

to get to sleep, but one and a half and

20:17

then one half in the middle of the night

20:19

when I woke up, because the wake up was now inevitable.

20:22

The ambient just didn't do what it did to me earlier

20:24

when I first started taking it. So this

20:27

progresses over the years, and then approximately

20:30

six years later, I am taking

20:33

them every night. I'm taking them in the middle

20:35

of the night when I wake up, and

20:38

all I think about, besides

20:41

my kids, are these pills. How

20:43

many can I take? When can I take them? Where can I get

20:46

them? How

20:48

can I not be discovered? How can I keep it a

20:50

secret? This is my every

20:52

waking thought besides my children. And

20:56

it's an obsession. It was an obsession. I

20:59

believe I was fully addicted at that

21:01

point. It's around this time

21:03

that I start washing these pills down

21:05

with vodka. I wasn't able

21:07

to recapture that feeling of euphoria

21:09

the way I had in the early days, and the

21:12

booze really helped. You

21:14

know, Benadryl came into

21:17

play at some point because benadryl actually

21:19

boosted the effect of it. I

21:21

was a

21:24

full blown at it. A junkie

21:26

is what I thought of myself as in my mind,

21:29

and I was a full time

21:32

mom.

21:36

How many ambient pills were you

21:38

now taking?

21:39

I was taking up to ten pills a day, which

21:43

most most people don't get up off the floor

21:45

after I say that, they're like what, they

21:48

just faint because it's way too many pills.

21:50

It's it's a lethal dosage, right, Yeah.

21:53

I was not taking ten pills at one time.

21:55

I was being very strategic and

21:57

I would write down, you know, how many pills

21:59

I had to pick up, how many refills

22:02

I had. For someone who wasn't good at math,

22:04

I became very good at math, and I calculated

22:07

out what I could take. The thing was

22:10

during the day. Even though I couldn't knock

22:12

myself out with ambien because I would go to sleep,

22:14

I couldn't be entirely without it either.

22:17

I needed to have some of it in my system

22:20

so that I would avoid a debilitating

22:23

withdrawal. And if I can just tell

22:25

you a little bit of what that would look like, it's

22:28

like the worst stomach flew, body

22:30

aches, headache, sweating, lack

22:33

of appetite, not being able

22:35

to make eye contact with anyone, visibly,

22:39

trembling, shaky fingers, rapid

22:41

heartbeat like dying

22:45

is what it looked like. It looked like I

22:47

should have been admitted to an

22:50

er, but I wasn't.

22:52

I would kind of chip away at a corner

22:55

of an ambient here, a corner of an ambien there.

22:57

It wouldn't take away the withdrawal, but

22:59

it would make it a manageable

23:01

amount of withdrawal. And I could time it.

23:04

If I take this chip, which is like

23:06

a corner of an ambien before

23:09

lunch, then I

23:11

can do an hour and ten minutes

23:13

for lunch without it becoming unbearable.

23:16

But then I got to get myself out of there and

23:18

get myself back home.

23:20

So you can take another little Yeah, if.

23:21

I had enough, I would take another one. Otherwise

23:23

I would just basically just endure

23:25

the withdrawal at home. Oh, gosh, okay,

23:28

because I needed to have enough to go to sleep

23:30

at night. That was my biggest fear.

23:32

Did you confide in anyone during

23:35

this period of time, Laura, or like, did anyone

23:37

just know what was happening?

23:39

Well, not only was my husband traveling

23:41

a lot at this point, but we were getting a

23:43

divorce, and you

23:47

know, so for him, I'm

23:49

sure there was a

23:51

huge sense that something was wrong. But

23:54

it's hard to know, especially

23:57

if you have an idea the person that you're

24:00

engaged with as an addict, Right, you haven't

24:03

seen this behavior from them. No

24:05

one was checking for me to be an addict at

24:07

this point, right. So the withdrawal,

24:11

not the physical withdrawal, but the withdrawal

24:13

from society, the isolation,

24:15

the sadness, these are

24:17

all things that can be attributed to

24:20

getting a divorce. So

24:23

it was in a way it was

24:25

lucky for me, or at least that's the way it felt,

24:27

because it masked what was really

24:29

going on from the outside world. It shielded

24:32

me.

24:36

We'll be back in a moment with a slight change

24:38

of plans.

24:50

At the peak of Laura's ambient addiction,

24:52

she was taking ten times the recommended

24:54

dose to avoid withdrawal

24:56

symptoms. She even needed ambient during

24:59

the day, she'd cut up the pills

25:01

into tiny pieces and ration them out.

25:04

Still, she remained determined to play

25:06

the part of the active, engaged

25:08

and happy mom and to hide

25:10

her situation from her community.

25:13

So when I showed up to my kids' school,

25:15

I brought Starbucks in the morning to

25:17

all the guards. I came back at

25:20

ten fifteen to do snack for my

25:22

younger son. I would do

25:25

hot lunch with everybody, and

25:27

then I would volunteer in the library

25:29

or like I was on campus

25:31

with them almost as much as they were. Wow,

25:34

I was in these little pockets, right, I'm a half hour here,

25:37

I'm thirty minutes here. Everybody had this impression

25:39

of me that one I was happy,

25:42

and two I was doing the thing. I

25:44

was also someone that everyone liked,

25:47

but no one really knew at school. I

25:49

was someone who would be invited to all

25:51

the different stuff, but I hadn't

25:53

really had like a deep conversation with anybody.

25:56

No one really knew me. That was that was you

25:59

know, intentional.

26:02

And so while I was able

26:04

to show up on campus and kind

26:06

of skirt any deep

26:08

conversation and get out. Now

26:11

it was getting harder. And I

26:13

remember this one time I

26:15

was there to volunteer in one of the classrooms,

26:18

I can't remember which one, and I

26:20

was needing a corner of an

26:22

ambien. And I

26:25

went into this bathroom and I

26:27

was opening my pill bottle to

26:29

get the corner of an ambient out

26:31

so that I could go and do whatever it was I was scheduled

26:34

to do. And

26:36

my hand slipped and the bottle

26:39

spilled, and all the pills went all

26:41

over the floor, not just in the stall where

26:43

I was of this girl's bathroom,

26:46

and maya something else took over.

26:48

Then I didn't care how I looked. I

26:51

didn't care. All I cared about, oh my goodness,

26:53

was getting those pills. I didn't even care

26:55

that they're probably on a urine stained floor.

26:58

I just needed those pills

27:01

back in that bottle. So instantly,

27:04

I'm on my hands and knees on this

27:06

floor, picking up each

27:08

pill so carefully and

27:11

putting it back into the bottle. And

27:13

I'm about halfway through this process when

27:15

my kid's art teacher walks in, and

27:20

the way I remember it is

27:22

she looked at me. I

27:24

looked at her with a terrified look

27:26

on my face. Because I felt busted. Yeah,

27:29

and then she quietly

27:32

turns around, goes the other way, and walks

27:34

out. I don't know she

27:36

read the bottle. I don't know if she recognized the pills

27:39

or she was just recognizing the state

27:41

that I was in, you know. And

27:43

so that's that's

27:46

how captive I was.

27:47

Yeah, So now

27:49

let's visit the summer of that year, July

27:52

fourth, two thousand and eight. Tell me

27:54

what happened that day.

27:56

So it's the afternoon of July fourth,

27:58

creeping into the evening, and

28:02

I am in what I

28:04

remember as one of the most debilitating

28:06

withdrawals I ever had, where

28:09

my teeth were chattering. It was

28:11

so bad my headache I thought it might

28:14

kill me. This headache that I had, it

28:16

was blinding, like literally I lost

28:19

my peripheral vision. And so I was like,

28:21

I can't take my kids to the fireworks tonight.

28:23

I can't do anything. I

28:25

have to get them out of here so

28:28

that I can knock myself out, because that's the

28:30

only thing that's going to help this. It's not going to

28:32

be a corner of a pill. I'm going

28:34

to have to take a full dose. And

28:36

now you know, this is what I've been trying

28:39

to do is wait until after my kids go to sleep

28:42

to knock myself out. But at

28:44

this point I could not wait, and

28:46

I knew it, but I didn't want them to witness that. So

28:49

I sent them to watch the fireworks with a neighbor

28:52

and I went to my stash

28:56

and I thought that

28:58

I had, you know, a two

29:00

day supply of pills in there, which for me

29:02

would have been around twenty pills,

29:05

but there were three,

29:07

and three wouldn't get me through the night. And

29:10

it was like being slapped across

29:12

the face when I opened that bottle

29:14

and found those three pills, and

29:17

the world crumbled around me, and I just didn't

29:19

what am I going to do? What am I going to do? I don't have

29:21

anymore, I have a finite window

29:23

of time. My kids have gone to see the

29:25

fireworks, they're going to be back. What

29:28

am I going to do? And

29:30

so I took them, went to the

29:32

freezer, got the vodka, drank

29:34

some of that, went to the bathroom, got

29:36

benadryl, took two of those,

29:39

and nothing, not

29:41

a thing. I didn't feel

29:43

any of that familiar heat rising behind

29:45

my eyes. I didn't feel any of the indicators

29:48

that this was working, and

29:50

my withdrawal was as excruciating

29:53

as it had been when I walked in the door. And

29:56

you know, eventually, like it, they worked

29:59

for a very short period of time, less

30:02

than an hour, and then I was

30:04

stone cold sober again, and then withdrawal

30:06

again and dry

30:08

crying again. And you

30:11

know, I had this moment where I was

30:13

just like, I

30:16

can't get loaded anymore.

30:18

I took everything I had and

30:21

I didn't get any relief, and

30:23

I can't be like this. I can't be

30:25

this shaking, headachey

30:28

fluey mess all the time, right,

30:31

And so I was like, I'm going to have to get help, as

30:34

I can't do this. I can't do this on my own.

30:38

The mom that I imagined

30:40

myself to be that I needed everyone to see

30:42

me as failed. That

30:47

image shattered because I couldn't

30:50

take my kids to the fireworks because of my

30:52

addiction. I couldn't take

30:54

them to this very simple thing that

30:57

you know, millions of Americans around the

30:59

country were doing. I could not

31:01

do that because of this addiction.

31:05

In my mind, it was the worst possible

31:07

thing.

31:09

You realize you needed to ask for help, and I'm so

31:11

curious what it

31:13

was like for you to reveal your secret.

31:17

That was your biggest fear for so long

31:19

that this moment would happen. And so what

31:21

was it actually like when that secret was revealed.

31:25

The first person I told was my mother, who

31:30

was lovely. She

31:32

didn't pry, she was warm, she

31:34

was supportive, and

31:37

I hung up the phone feeling like

31:39

I just wanted the earth to swallow me. I

31:42

couldn't believe that I had said it out loud. And

31:45

you know, that's the thing with

31:47

addicts is we don't want to We

31:49

want to leave that back door open. Right, Oh,

31:52

maybe it wasn't so bad. If I

31:54

don't tell anybody, then maybe it's not so

31:56

bad. I can still believe that lie. Yeah,

31:59

but once I've confessed to somebody that

32:01

back door shuts and locks, I

32:03

don't have anywhere else to go. And

32:06

I knew that when I told

32:08

her that she was going to tell

32:10

other people. But the secret was out. I

32:12

couldn't go back to pretending. And

32:15

you know, in each person who I told, each

32:18

one felt like that I was desperately

32:21

afraid of being id'd

32:23

as the mom who went to treatment.

32:25

Yeah, you've

32:28

said that the impact of your time in

32:30

treatment didn't really hit you

32:32

until towards the end when you heard a comment

32:34

from one of the nurses, Can you say more

32:36

about that?

32:38

Yeah, I mean I hated it there.

32:40

I was there for thirty days. I hated every

32:43

minute I was there. I never leaned

32:45

in. I did not feel

32:48

safe there like a lot of people did, and

32:51

I didn't feel like I had changed. In fact,

32:53

I was planning to pick up a refill

32:56

about, you know, nine miles

32:59

from where the treatment center was, on my

33:01

way back to Los Angeles. I

33:03

use my phone time, which is a privilege

33:05

that you get at the end, to call in that refill,

33:08

take prescribed and go live my life.

33:11

And as I was checking

33:13

out the nurse who had checked me in thirty

33:16

days before, she said,

33:19

the lights have come back on in your eyes

33:22

and she started crying. Oh

33:24

wow, she started crying, and I

33:27

felt I was so just

33:29

like solid stone. I didn't want any part

33:31

of this emotional exchange with her, but

33:33

I felt my body warming, and

33:36

then I felt the tears in my eyes despite

33:39

myself, and I felt something

33:41

that I hadn't felt before. I

33:44

didn't stop me from wanting to pick up that refill,

33:46

but something got in. Then,

33:49

something penetrated that armor,

33:52

and I felt

33:54

something which I can

33:56

now identify as hope, but

33:59

I didn't know that's what it was then. I

34:02

was just like, it

34:05

doesn't have.

34:06

To be this.

34:08

It's going to be this. I'm going to go pick up that refill

34:11

and go do this. But it doesn't have to be this, because

34:13

look what just happened. Thirty days later, I'm

34:16

off of it entirely, and

34:18

the lights are back on in my eyes.

34:22

See, you said you didn't realize that it was hope

34:24

in the moment, but that yeah,

34:27

and I love this refrain, like it doesn't have to be that

34:29

way. And there is this experience

34:31

about two months after

34:33

you leave treatment where

34:36

now I mean, now that I hear you say that, it seems like

34:38

it's a it doesn't have to be that way

34:40

situation, right, Like, can you tell

34:42

me about that?

34:43

Yeah, I should start by saying that I didn't actually

34:46

pick up that ambion on the way back

34:48

from treatment. And I

34:50

had been sober at this point where

34:53

you're talking about for about two months.

34:56

And so my kid is sick

34:58

and I called to get medication

35:01

delivered for him, antibiotics, And

35:04

when the delivery comes, I

35:06

opened the bag and I can tell already that the

35:08

bag is too heavy for just a bottle

35:10

of antibiotics. There's also a

35:13

bottle of cough medicine, which

35:16

is the most delicious orange

35:20

elixir for coughs ever

35:22

invented. And this would be like a little

35:24

treat for myself when I was sick, Like,

35:27

you know, I would get it when I was sick, and I really enjoyed

35:29

the warmth that whatever narcotic

35:32

is in there provided. And I

35:34

hadn't ordered it. I had only ordered the antibiotics

35:37

for my son, and so I was very surprised

35:39

by the appearance of this cough medicine and

35:41

delighted that it was there. And

35:43

I really quickly did the math. You

35:46

know, I have two days with my kid at home.

35:49

My younger son was with my now ex husband.

35:51

I could enjoy the contents of this bottle

35:54

and no one would know, And so

35:56

I kind of figured I would wait till the end of the day.

35:58

And you know, I kind of rushed through his dinner, like

36:00

hurry up and eat eat your soup. We

36:03

watched a couple of shows and I waited

36:05

for him to fall asleep, and I

36:08

went into my claw with it. I

36:10

had had a kind of a big closet and so

36:12

I was pacing around in there with

36:14

this bottle, and I

36:16

was imagining how it would feel when

36:18

I drank it, and I was imagining

36:21

how it would feel in my body and when it hit

36:23

my bloodstream, and what it would do, and the warmth

36:25

and the wonderfulness of it. And

36:29

I feel these arms

36:31

around my waist, these hot, small arms.

36:34

Of course they belonged to my son. And

36:38

he puts his arms around

36:40

me and lays his head against my back. I'm

36:42

still holding the bottle out in front, and he says,

36:44

Mommy, I need you, and

36:47

that made me emotional too.

36:50

I went and put him back in

36:52

bed, but he wouldn't

36:54

let me go, and that bottle

36:57

was calling me from the closet. But

36:59

my son's voice was louder,

37:02

and it was like there

37:04

was a mirror in front of me. At that

37:06

moment, I could see myself

37:10

being reflected back. Am

37:12

I the mom who

37:15

chooses her son over

37:17

the cough medicine?

37:19

Or am I the mom who chooses the cough medicine

37:22

over her son? And

37:25

I observed myself choosing my son. And

37:29

it's all about choice.

37:31

I didn't always have choices when I was in the

37:33

throes of the addiction. I don't care what people think

37:36

about it. I didn't have choices, but

37:39

I had a choice in that moment. And

37:44

we woke up and the birds were singing

37:46

and it was bright out, and

37:48

I gave the bottle to my ex husband.

37:50

I'm like, get this out of here. I

37:52

can't have it in the house. I couldn't go through another night

37:55

like that. Yeah, I do that back and

37:57

for it. So he was kind

37:59

of like, okay, but he took it, and that

38:03

was truly the

38:06

last temptation I had.

38:09

You've now been fifteen years sober,

38:11

Laura, and I'm

38:13

curious to know how this experience

38:16

has changed how

38:18

you think about ideal motherhood and

38:20

how you carry that label.

38:23

It's change everything about the

38:25

way that I view myself as

38:27

a mother, as a person, everything,

38:32

because I had never been

38:34

completely honest about everything.

38:37

I always told some truths, but

38:39

there were always versions of the truth. In

38:43

the twelve step recovery that I chose,

38:46

one of the suggestions is that the

38:48

first principle is honesty. So

38:52

I started

38:54

to be

38:57

more vulnerable, which was really

38:59

hard for me, and let

39:02

people into the fact that I had this

39:04

abusive childhood, that we were poor,

39:06

that I dropped out of high school that you

39:09

know, I didn't lead with those things, but I didn't

39:11

hide them anymore. And I

39:14

have a woman that guides me

39:16

through this twelve step program, and I call her

39:18

my Master Reel because I

39:20

have told her everything. She knows

39:22

all about my life. She knows the humiliation,

39:25

she knows the relationships, she

39:27

knows where I was dishonest, and

39:30

she knows about the harms that I've done to others

39:32

and myself. And there's

39:34

just no flinching away from those things for

39:37

me anymore. I can't sugarcoat

39:40

them. The way I

39:42

was living before, even before the addiction,

39:45

was terrifying because

39:47

I had all these secrets that I was afraid that everybody

39:49

was going to find out, and I was

39:52

going to be exposed in this way and either

39:54

be cast aside or cast out. That

39:56

was my thinking. And I

39:58

didn't think I had any fears when I came

40:00

in. I really didn't. I didn't have my finger on the pulse

40:03

of any of them. And once I was

40:05

able to enjoy sobriety a little bit,

40:07

there's a freedom there where

40:09

I'm able to think in my best

40:11

interest and in the way

40:14

the best interests of others. It's a much different

40:16

way than what can I get away with or

40:19

what can I present myself

40:21

as I

40:23

love that freedom that

40:26

I have in sobriety of not having

40:28

to hide anything.

40:29

Yeah, what has it been like

40:32

sharing your story with

40:34

people after so many years of

40:38

those secrets feeling threatening when

40:41

I was a mom.

40:42

I'm looking around and I'm thinking they were all given

40:44

the manual and I wasn't given the

40:46

manual, Like what did I miss? So

40:48

that everybody knows how to do this except

40:50

for me? And now I realize

40:53

these women didn't get the manual either. They

40:55

were running around watching

40:58

what everybody else did and trying to imitate.

41:00

They were keeping secrets the

41:02

same way that I was, you know, hiding

41:04

their quote unquote ineptitude

41:07

because they didn't want it to be revealed that there

41:09

was stuff they just didn't know how to do or

41:11

worse couldn't handle. And

41:14

so in hearing my story, they

41:17

felt like they could share theirs too, which

41:20

you know, that's the best thing. Ever,

41:23

That's why you tell a story.

41:24

Right,

41:57

Hey, thanks so much for listening. If

41:59

you enjoyed my conversation with Laura, you

42:01

might also like my episode with musician

42:03

Jason I Isbel. It's called Jason

42:06

Isbel finds peace with his past. We'll

42:09

link to the episode in our show notes and

42:12

join me next week for our conversation with

42:14

the developmental psychologist Alison

42:16

Gopnik. She says that when it

42:18

comes to creativity and problem solving,

42:21

children actually have a lot to teach us.

42:24

See you next week. A

42:35

Slight Change of Plans is created, written,

42:37

and executive produced by me Maya Schunker.

42:40

The Slight Change family includes our showrunner

42:43

Tyler Green, our senior editor

42:45

Kate Parkinson Morgan, our producer

42:48

Trisha Bovida, and our sound engineer

42:50

Andrew Vestola. Louis

42:52

Scara wrote our delightful theme song, and

42:55

Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.

42:57

A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin

43:00

Industries, so big thanks to everyone

43:02

there, and of course a

43:04

very special thanks to Jimmy Lee.

43:07

You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram

43:09

at doctor Maya Shunker. See

43:11

you next week.