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create. It's

1:52

almost impossible to talk about the

1:54

new year and starting fresh and

1:56

not talk about food. The

1:58

two are so intertwined. mind that

2:00

everywhere you look this month, you're going

2:02

to be bombarded with 10 tips

2:05

for salads that will change your

2:07

life or 15 recipes for breakfast

2:10

soup that are going to make

2:12

you like evacuate gold bars as

2:14

if the secret to happiness and

2:16

success in the new year just

2:18

depends on finding the perfect meal

2:21

to serve. And of course,

2:23

eating well is a great and somewhat easy

2:25

way you could choose to make small changes

2:27

in your life that do have a big

2:29

impact. Like food might

2:32

not solve your work issues or

2:34

your love life or the economy

2:36

or presidential candidates. But

2:39

yeah, a great orange, a

2:41

tangelo in January might

2:43

just actually make your goddamn day.

2:46

And so, you know, while some food fads

2:48

and headlines might drive us crazy,

2:50

I think that looking at food in the

2:52

new year makes a ton of sense. There's

2:55

a reason that so many people recommit

2:57

to cooking for themselves in the new

2:59

year. Why people finally

3:01

opened the new appliances, they were gifted

3:03

in December and decided, yeah, maybe I

3:05

will figure out how to use this

3:07

fancy look crusade. Maybe I

3:10

will. I shall learn

3:12

to baste something. Does

3:15

my dough need a pillow while it

3:17

rests? It feels good to

3:19

choose to do something for ourselves. It

3:21

can lead to community and it is

3:23

literally nourishing. I think nourishing to

3:26

the body and to the soul. When

3:29

I was growing up, my main

3:31

idea of baking was eating

3:33

chocolate cake mix dry

3:35

with a spoon in my room.

3:38

Sure. Yes. Okay. But

3:41

if Gwyneth Paltrow told you she did it, you'd want to do

3:43

it too. Okay. Then

3:45

all of a sudden I remember wanting to

3:48

learn how to be a good cook. I

3:50

had a boyfriend whose mom was

3:53

an excellent cook and I wanted

3:55

to be like her. I mean,

3:58

like very, very far away from her. them, but

4:00

as good a cook and as easy

4:02

a cook as she was.

4:05

She was just effortless. And

4:07

also, as a teenager, a friend of mine

4:09

had gifted me a subscription to Gourmet Magazine,

4:11

and that really was life-changing.

4:13

I decided I wanted to know how

4:15

to do what they were doing on

4:17

all of those beautiful pages, RIP,

4:20

Gourmet Magazine. And I

4:22

think that some 35 years later, I

4:25

maybe have accomplished that. I'm sure

4:27

there were many, many

4:29

pizza bagels along the way,

4:31

and sometimes I still sometimes mistakenly

4:33

use parsley instead of cilantro in

4:36

my cilantro rice, which turned

4:39

out weird. But mostly, I'm

4:41

not hearing too many complaints. And

4:58

I think that's hard to get at how we

5:00

make better decisions in 2024. My guest today is

5:04

Samine Neithrapp, the incredible cookbook author and

5:06

host of Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat, and

5:08

we talk all about our food choices

5:10

in the new year. And of course,

5:13

celebrate the new year bringing in

5:15

citrus season. So take a listen

5:17

and make good choices. Hi.

5:31

Hi. How are you? Oh,

5:33

I'm so well. I have to tell you something. I

5:36

am such a big

5:38

fan of yours. Oh,

5:40

thank you. I was

5:42

actually just, I

5:44

was just telling everybody that I was rereading

5:46

your cookbook. I collect cookbooks

5:49

and I read them and I love

5:51

them. And yours is so

5:53

special. Thank you. Very

5:56

special. Such a good read. Thank

5:58

you. Thank you. you. I love

6:01

writing about food. I've always loved like every,

6:03

every, every, as a teenager, I've loved people

6:05

writing about food. You, did you grow up

6:08

loving food writing as

6:10

well? I didn't grow up, I didn't

6:12

know that there was such a thing called food writing.

6:15

Um, but I've always loved reading and,

6:17

um, yeah, like from, you

6:19

know, very early childhood, I've loved being

6:22

read to and reading and stories.

6:25

And I think that that's an important

6:27

foundation of May. Well,

6:29

it worked in myself. Yeah. I know that you

6:32

already know this cause many people have told you this,

6:36

but you've got what it takes. It's

6:40

like, do you know what I mean? Like

6:43

just some people are just so goddamn good

6:45

at it. And I, anyways, I just,

6:47

I mean, it's so nice of you to

6:49

say that. And it's a very funny moment

6:51

because I'm trying to finish the draft of

6:53

my next book right now. And

6:55

it has been so hard. And I

6:58

think the biggest difficulty has been my

7:00

own brain. Just

7:03

I'm like, why am I even doing this? Why

7:05

do people, nobody even wants to hear this? You

7:07

know, there's a lot of that. And

7:09

like, do people need another like chicken schnitzel

7:12

recipe? They don't. No, they do. I do.

7:15

I'll take it. I'm ready to receive. And

7:17

also cause with the first book, I was on such a

7:20

mission for, you know, almost 20 years.

7:22

I knew I wanted to tell that

7:25

specific story. And then now I don't

7:28

have that sort of like 20

7:30

years of fuel. So

7:33

it's a little bit different, but different experience. But I

7:35

mean, you're just, your voice is so true

7:37

and clear. And like, it just, it

7:40

rings my bell. I think it's what

7:42

I'm saying. And so I'm glad you're here. I

7:44

have, okay. I did definitely promise my producers

7:47

that I wouldn't just spend one

7:49

full hour asking you what you ate this week. We'll

7:51

see if I keep that promise. Okay. I'm

7:54

trying to think if there was anything particularly good.

7:56

Okay. But in essence, this show is

7:58

all about choice. So we are going to talk

8:01

about choices that we've come to big

8:03

choices that we've made little choices, you know Do

8:06

you are you good at are you good at

8:08

making choices? Are you like good a good decision

8:10

maker? What's your process? Like I'm both really

8:13

good and really bad. Okay, so I think

8:15

it just depends on the circumstances I

8:17

am an overthinker and an

8:19

over researcher Oh, so I can can

8:22

really go down a rabbit hole of

8:24

weighing all the options Right,

8:27

but then also I think I

8:29

do have an ability to Listen

8:33

to my instincts and

8:35

listen to myself and tune into that and

8:37

it's gotten better as I've like gone to

8:39

therapy for many years and just learned

8:42

how to like tune into my own body and

8:44

what my body's trying to tell me but So

8:48

I think it just depends like is it if

8:50

it's about like buying like this morning actually I

8:52

was googling binoculars Wow and

8:54

like I Have opinions about

8:56

binoculars, you know And I was like I got so

8:58

overwhelmed by the research that I was like, I'm

9:00

just not gonna buy any I'll just borrow some But

9:06

then I think other things where it's maybe more important

9:08

or meaningful I do have a good ability to like

9:10

tune in and sit with myself and

9:12

figure it out when you have Like

9:14

a choice that you're making or you're like making

9:17

a decision like one big thing.

9:19

What does your body? How does your

9:21

body communicate to you? I Wish

9:24

there was like a my finger went to

9:26

the button my one eye turns green Yeah,

9:30

no, it's been a really long painful

9:33

and mostly boring process of many

9:35

years of therapy and I have

9:37

the best therapist I he's so

9:39

good to me and for me

9:42

and he really has against my

9:46

Insisted over and over that

9:48

I I

9:51

Tune learn to tune into my own body and

9:53

I'm like, but can't just give me a list

9:55

of stuff to do you know, like more efficient

9:57

yet totally and so So

10:00

he's, we're always, the answer's always coming back to

10:02

my own body, which in the beginning felt very

10:04

awkward. But

10:08

now I'm basically like trained in

10:10

it. So I understand, you know, if I have a,

10:12

like I might rant about something to him and then

10:14

he'll be like, okay, well, where do you feel this?

10:16

So then I have to get quiet and sit with

10:18

it. And almost always for me,

10:20

the places where I feel things are in my

10:23

belly, you know, or in my heart. So

10:26

if I'm feeling really lonely, I'll

10:28

almost feel like a tightness in my chest. Or

10:31

if I feel like a sad sadness

10:33

or anger that derives from loneliness that

10:35

often is in my chest. And

10:37

also if I feel good and seen and loved, that's

10:39

in my chest. And then in

10:41

my belly is where like I feel anxiety or

10:45

unsettledness, you know, right? Stuff

10:48

like that. Maybe you find, where do you feel excitement?

10:50

I can tell you where I feel

10:52

it in the weirdest spot. So I have to

10:54

like, do you know what I mean? Like enthusiasm.

10:56

I always feel it in my hips. I feel

10:58

like there's like someone has poured Perrier into

11:00

my hips. Oh, that's so

11:02

good. So just like ever of us and

11:04

I'm like, what's happening? I

11:07

think that makes sense though. I've been really tuned

11:09

out to like my pelvis and my hips almost

11:11

my whole life. And so only in this last

11:14

year have I started even feeling anything there. Okay.

11:17

But I kind of make sense that I think you would feel excitement there. Like

11:19

a free song. Like a

11:21

nice, like a topo Chico poured

11:23

into my jeans. Ew,

11:26

it's disgusting. I'm sorry. No,

11:28

it's just fizzy water. It's fine. Fizzy

11:30

water. There's no sugar. It's not.

11:33

All right. January

11:36

is a really big month for people. For me,

11:38

it's actually more September than January,

11:40

but I accept that we think of things differently

11:46

in the month of January. I don't

11:48

have the January thing either. But

11:51

yeah, people do. Like, and it's like in

11:53

the culture. I think it's more cultural, but

11:56

we're going to, so we're going to take them on to kind

11:58

of like focus on the, the, The. It's

12:00

or concept of making. Just.

12:02

Good decisions as well. Want.

12:04

That and people make resolutions for

12:07

the New Year. I don't personally

12:09

matter resolutions person or you know.

12:11

I can't hold the anything much now. doesn't

12:13

he realize when the exercising one day I

12:15

only wanted to have learn like don't Do

12:18

that. To myself know I think it's

12:20

weird. To. Postpone taking a

12:22

good decision until another time.

12:24

Yes. Agreed not to day

12:27

in exactly in seventeen days.

12:29

I'm Alexis. I would assert that

12:31

have been hired. It's weird. it's

12:34

really were on. But. I

12:36

just want to unpack that with you a

12:38

little. But when I actually think of January,

12:40

think of Citrus is my favorite. Fruit

12:42

season. I love citrus tunes.

12:44

Love citrus. Ah yes, it's like deeply

12:47

meaningful to me. So I agree with

12:49

you. Okay, when you think citrus, what

12:51

are you would He's. Where does

12:53

your brain though? So. My grandparents

12:55

in Iran had a citrus

12:57

work dirt open arms citrus.

12:59

I always feel as like.

13:02

In. My blood and there are. There's not

13:04

a lot a know about my family. There's.

13:07

There's all I've been told, his and so

13:09

on. But I've visited that citrus orchard and

13:12

you know, like I have picked. Sour

13:14

orange blossoms with my grandmother and main

13:16

orange blossom on. There are just sort

13:18

of some core memories. yet I have.

13:21

And then I grew up in Southern

13:23

California where there were citrus trees everywhere.

13:25

so we'd go to my other grandparents'

13:27

house and mirror up orange trees in

13:29

the backyard. Or we'd go visit orchards

13:32

and pick fruit and com Iranians love

13:34

putting lime and lemon on everything. looks

13:36

super acidic sings and there are these

13:38

specific cities. Varieties.

13:41

of oranges and limes that are really

13:43

precious and persian cuisine their sour oranges

13:45

like the seville oranges which we squeeze

13:47

over fist and then they're sweet lines

13:50

which is another thing people will eat

13:52

the whole fruit and so my dad

13:54

would like to drive down to tijuana

13:56

to get us knows for it's when

13:59

as going I have a lot of sort of

14:01

citrus memories. And then

14:03

now my best friend inherited

14:06

the citrus and avocado ranch in Southern

14:08

California that her parents bought in the

14:10

70s. She always says they were the

14:13

first Jewish avocado ranchers in Ventura County.

14:19

And I don't know, there's just, I like where

14:21

I live, I bought this house in

14:23

2019 and I had

14:25

to buy it kind of quickly and stuff. And

14:27

I was so excited about it, it was my friend's house.

14:29

And then afterward I found this list in

14:32

my notes app that was like my

14:34

dreams for buying a house one day, which I had

14:36

never thought would be possible for me. So it was

14:38

sort of just a miracle. And

14:40

the most sort of like prominent thing on the

14:43

list was a list of all the fruit trees

14:45

that I wanted to have in

14:47

my yard. And this house

14:49

already had all the fruit trees, including,

14:52

you know, Meyer lemon and lime and

14:54

regular lemon and satsuma and stuff. Oh

14:56

my God. Oh, you have a satsuma tree?

14:59

I mean, satsuma is not producing yet. OK,

15:02

but it's there and it probably is like,

15:05

I mean, I'm sure it has a beautiful fragrance. Oh

15:08

yeah, has blossoms. Yeah, totally. Oh boy. And

15:10

then I've also last year planted Oro

15:13

Blanco grapefruits, which are these big, beautiful white

15:15

grapefruits that are so sweet and blood-wearing to

15:17

this too. Oh my goodness. This

15:19

is... I

15:22

know I knew that my mouth was going to

15:24

be watering and it already is. So,

15:26

just from talking about fruit. Yeah, just from talking

15:28

about fruit. Because I feel like for me that

15:31

it's seeing... Going to California for the first...

15:33

I grew up in Canada where we grow apples,

15:36

which are fine. I love that.

15:38

But going to California for the first time in my

15:40

life, I was like, there are

15:43

lemons. Just on the street.

15:45

On the street. Like what

15:47

is this place? Promised land.

15:49

Yeah, yeah. How can this

15:51

exist? It's just

15:53

so far from like a desert landscape or

15:55

just a flowering fruit tree. that's just like

15:57

sitting there. during their known even wants the

15:59

for this is like too much about the

16:02

like a ten or so. Much for there's

16:04

always for it on the street. samples all over the

16:06

sidewalk, Of rules like this stupid lemon suddenly.

16:09

Take them. Out

16:12

and do you say mean. Things

16:14

that food place such. As significant as it

16:16

really is. so. Part of that

16:19

January conversation. It's like words

16:21

you wanted differently or get.

16:23

Enough to a good start and food

16:25

as others so much a part of

16:28

south for people is why do you

16:30

think that people center at in their

16:32

kind of like fresh. Start. Their.

16:34

Vision of themselves. As

16:37

starting says, Well. As existing

16:39

about food, that's. So.

16:41

Interesting as as a person who.

16:45

Whose career has to do a soon. I find

16:47

this really sort of fascinating and in

16:49

my earlier in my early days as

16:51

a young cook was used to drive

16:54

me nuts and but actually now I

16:56

think it's a beautiful things which is

16:58

that everybody has a relationship to food

17:00

and everyone in a way is a

17:02

food professional because everyone is an expert

17:05

in their own. You know everyone's been

17:07

eating their whole life. Rice and food

17:09

is such a sensory experience eating and

17:11

cooking. You know, the

17:14

best. Eating and cooking sort of engages

17:16

all five senses time. and that means

17:18

you create memories around and you create

17:20

ideas around it. And so we all

17:23

have this sort of body of knowledge

17:25

and side of us and we all

17:27

have very strong feelings about what we

17:30

like and don't like. nice and I'm

17:32

and then you. Have. Your person like

17:34

me. You go somewhere and. Are trained in the

17:36

quote unquote right way round, do things and

17:38

seven assists. It's stead when somebody tells you

17:40

will, that's not the way you know my

17:43

mom made beans or that's not the way.

17:45

Whatever, I might not when I was a

17:47

baby cooker. Be like well, you're wrong feel

17:49

and well as. The

17:51

man is a cell a sea of at the. End

17:55

So and now I'm. Now

17:58

I actually think. It's

18:01

this wonderful opportunity for me to connect

18:03

with people because as long as I'm

18:05

open and not defensive about it, right

18:07

had. So I think it's that same

18:09

part of ourselves that sort of. Comes.

18:12

Into Play in January I think. Also,

18:14

we can't like ignore Sir are a lot

18:16

of like marketing forces at Play Store.

18:18

A lot there's like topple. As I'm sitting us

18:21

over the head was like trying to get us to sign

18:23

up for a gym. Membership. Or whatever price.

18:25

So when you're getting all sorts of

18:27

messages from the outside, I

18:29

think in in a way like

18:31

are most tender and vulnerable place

18:33

is where we eat and oh

18:35

and what we eat and our relationship

18:38

to foods and that can be

18:40

used. For

18:42

like openness and big heartedness more to

18:44

be used to make us feel small

18:46

for high end I think in a

18:48

lot of ways like the capitalist machine

18:50

does the last or something. but ah.

18:52

Yes the cavalier seen as so happy to

18:55

tell us that we are big pile of

18:57

garbage. Year. And or something wrong with you.

18:59

I'm not to apply this thing and this. Thing will

19:01

his exit. we like to during. The

19:03

holiday shopping season but now leads

19:05

to. Steer just trash he Metrotech.

19:08

so what's your own? Yeah.

19:10

And I also think that same part

19:12

of us that has the relationship to

19:14

food and memory is really highly activated

19:16

during the holidays because that's when you

19:18

pino, see your family and eat these

19:21

things and have these traditions you been

19:23

doing your whole life and so and

19:25

then and then. So it's kind of

19:27

like. This prime moment

19:29

we would hear like fully vulnerable

19:31

and kind of tired from are

19:33

eating or something and then you

19:36

village summoning gotcha Yes speaks citrus

19:38

come and get some system uniforms

19:40

just big cities with the only

19:42

things and. Will be read

19:44

as a means to. The.

19:57

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22:00

Take. Your business further A T

22:02

mobile.com. Slash. Know. A

22:12

little farther show my after

22:14

reports for like a licensing

22:16

choice. So now I have one

22:18

of and prepared as you. Are Oh My

22:20

God Help me with that! Okay, so

22:22

I'm. Because I'm suing he

22:24

wanted it to have to do a suit cel. I

22:27

mean I. Don't make any assumptions and also

22:29

it.is as. If that really, I even

22:31

though I chose to assist so and

22:33

this is one of those ones where.

22:35

I only really understood fully. In

22:37

retrospect that I had made the choice exactly.

22:40

But I'm. So

22:42

my one of my dear friends her

22:44

name is credit when she left the

22:46

Bay Area and moved to New York

22:48

about ten years ago, which is where

22:50

she has lot of family and friends.

22:52

Mom she started this practice of having

22:55

a weekly dinner on Sundays and I

22:57

admit grata in the food world. And

22:59

so. Erm, she's a.

23:02

She's. A totally good cook. Much

23:04

is not a professional cook. She

23:06

understands how to set a beautiful

23:08

table. She understands. You.

23:10

Know. She just understands like how

23:12

to create a special gathering three. But

23:15

also like this was a practice at her house

23:17

every Sunday. So it was not. you know

23:19

the fanciest always or anything. it was

23:21

just standing dinner standing invitation to her

23:23

friends and was a way for people

23:25

to come over and just be together

23:27

and. It. Was. This

23:30

kind of I saw the first time I went. I.

23:32

Insult. So something was really. I

23:35

mean it was so wonderful. Something was

23:37

very confused. I was some part of

23:39

me was confused and I'm. I

23:42

took me awhile to put my finger on it, and it

23:45

was that. You know, I've been sitting at tables like that

23:47

like. big gatherings of people since i was nineteen

23:49

years old and i first started cooking and working

23:51

and restaurant with that's what cook to do on

23:53

their day off and and restaurant people do on

23:56

their day off but somehow something so very different

23:58

about the way bread it was doing it

24:00

and eventually I realized it was the first time

24:02

that I was sitting at a table where

24:05

there was as much or more attention paid

24:08

to what was happening around the table as

24:11

what had been put on the table. And

24:14

so did everyone feel comfortable? Did

24:16

everyone feel welcome? Like did we all have,

24:18

you know, a sense of

24:20

togetherness? And there was just this way where over

24:22

time people

24:27

kind of instinctively knew like, oh, this is not a time

24:29

and a place where we're on our phones. There

24:31

was no decree about that, but it just became

24:33

that. There were just sort of these traditions

24:35

that like were born into this thing as she

24:37

held onto this ritual for a few years. And

24:40

I live in Oakland, so I was just coming

24:42

to New York a lot. So I started building my trips

24:44

around Sundays to make sure I was always there on a

24:46

Sunday. And eventually I was

24:48

like, wow, I really want to create something like this

24:50

for my own self. But at the time I lived

24:53

in this tiny apartment, I was

24:55

traveling so much there wasn't a way for me

24:57

to like envision how that could happen. And

24:59

then I had the like amazing luck of

25:02

being able to buy this house. And the first thing I

25:04

did when I bought this house was I hired

25:06

a friend of mine who's an amazing woodworker to build

25:09

me a huge dining room table. Because I was like,

25:11

I'm going to have Sunday dinners. I'm going to have

25:13

Sunday dinners. It's going to be great. So he built

25:15

it and then he delivered it. And the next week

25:17

it was COVID. And

25:21

so I was like, well, I guess no one's going to be sitting at this

25:23

table for a while. And so then, you

25:27

know, there I am like sitting all lonely and sad at

25:29

this table that I've like had built for me in this

25:31

house that I've earned this money to buy. And I just

25:33

was like, what is my life about? And I got really

25:35

depressed for a lot of reasons throughout

25:37

COVID. And

25:40

in kind of by the

25:42

time everyone was vaccinated, and a little bit after

25:44

that, I was really in deep, deep depression and

25:47

working on the recipes for this book one day.

25:50

And I live around the corner from a farmer's market.

25:53

And so my friend texted me and said, oh, can we

25:55

come see you? I'm here with my kids. Can we come

25:57

see you after the farmer's market? See you and your puppy.

26:00

I was like, oh, of course. So she came

26:02

and that morning I was testing this recipe for,

26:04

um, I was trying to make like a al

26:06

pastor style pork braise. And

26:08

so, um, but I had really like pushed

26:11

myself down into this mental rabbit

26:13

hole of darkness. And,

26:17

um, I just, even though I had

26:19

bought this beautiful piece of grass fed pork and all this

26:21

stuff, and it was in the oven, I just was like, this

26:23

is going to be so bad. I did it wrong. I'm a terrible

26:25

cook, all this stuff. So she came over and I was like feeling

26:28

so bad about myself. And I was like, and then I'm going

26:30

to have to eat all this pork by myself for the next

26:32

36 meals. Like, I

26:34

just got my top off for, and

26:36

I just sat here. Yeah. And

26:40

like, and then every time I eat it, I'll just feel bad

26:42

about what a bad cook I am. And, and then

26:44

she said, well, we'll help you eat it. And I was

26:46

like, Oh, okay. And, and she

26:48

said, I said, when? She said, how about Tuesday? And,

26:51

um, so I went over there and they had, we

26:53

had this pork, we had a taco night. And

26:55

it was actually, everyone was like, why were you mad

26:57

about this park? It's so delicious. And I was

26:59

like, well, it wasn't the thing I wanted or

27:02

whatever, but also because it throughout COVID

27:04

I'd been so lonely and

27:07

just, there was just this sense I

27:09

had like, Oh, there's kids running around, you know, I'm

27:11

together with my friends and they're like, want to come

27:13

back next Tuesday? And I was like, okay. So

27:15

we just kept doing it on Tuesdays and

27:17

it became this like amazing thing in my

27:19

heart. And there, you know,

27:21

Wednesday was the day they got their farm box

27:23

delivered. So like our goal usually became

27:25

to just like use up whatever we had and

27:27

text back and forth about it. It was never

27:29

like a grand thing. And I'm

27:32

testing recipes. So sometimes like I would

27:34

bring the majority of the things. And sometimes, you

27:36

know, last year my dad died through in

27:39

the hospital, like this really complicated long thing.

27:41

So for probably six months, I didn't bring

27:43

anything. I just kept showing up. And

27:46

it took me a while. And then I

27:48

realized like, Oh my God, this whole time.

27:50

Yeah. And so I was so

27:52

focused on trying to figure out how to do this

27:54

Sunday dinner that I didn't see that we had made

27:56

Tuesday dinner. I

28:00

was like, oh, it's just on the wrong side of my I was just looking the other

28:02

way, you know, and And

28:05

so then we've like and then as

28:08

we've all sort of talked about what it is that

28:10

we feel that we've built together It's

28:12

it is a choice and it is so special and

28:14

there are kind of these It's

28:16

at the core of my life. Like I don't you

28:18

know, I don't I always it's

28:20

like in my calendar forever I don't plan anything that

28:23

night We have we

28:25

have a lot of friends in common. So people come

28:27

through we meet new people like we get to See

28:30

what you know was interesting on tick-tock and cook

28:32

that and talk about it together. We've got old

28:34

standards I make the chicken the

28:36

kids loved last month and they hate it this month You

28:39

know, sometimes the dinners a bus sometimes

28:41

there's a tantrum Sometimes we order pizza

28:44

like it's not there's no sort

28:46

of hard and fast rules Except

28:48

we do it and so I think choosing to

28:50

that and committing to that has been a life-changing

28:53

thing for me Oh my god,

28:55

this is one of the most incredible answers

28:58

I feel like anyone has ever given me.

29:00

This is a beautiful You

29:02

just built you like ox. It's

29:05

you almost accidentally built something Totally

29:08

totally that's so yeah PR and

29:10

just it's so beautiful and like

29:12

I've spent a lot of time understanding,

29:15

you know Ezra Klein

29:17

who I love listening to his podcast I

29:19

think he's on some sort of similar journey

29:22

about his values with me because like he's been having

29:24

a lot of interviews in the last few years about

29:27

community and gathering and rituals and Shabbat and

29:29

those kinds of things and so and

29:33

I've actually like on my own had read a lot

29:35

of the same books that he's talking about and so

29:38

He had this one beautiful episode about

29:40

Shabbat with this author this journalist Miriam

29:42

Shulavitz and it was so

29:46

Amazing and at one point he asks her Why

29:49

do you think like people can't when they say I'm gonna have

29:51

a digital Shabbat or a digital like detox

29:53

or something? Just not use my phone on

29:55

whatever one day a week that

29:57

never works Whereas these other

30:00

rituals work. And

30:02

so, and I've always been wondering, like, what

30:04

is it about this Tuesday dinner that we

30:06

that like, what are the forces that have

30:08

allowed us to keep doing it? Because

30:12

I know in other times in my life, I've

30:14

tried to start traditions and rituals, and there

30:16

are a lot of things that like just make it fall

30:18

apart. And, and

30:21

she said, Oh, well, when you like

30:23

do a digital Shabbat, or

30:25

whatever digital detox, or any of those kinds of things,

30:28

it's not actually you're not getting anything,

30:30

you're giving something up, it's like going

30:32

on a diet, you're depriving yourself, it

30:34

feels like deprivation. Exactly. And

30:37

it doesn't feel good, right? And there's

30:39

no community support system, there's no ritual.

30:41

But these other things, because

30:43

they have specifically Shabbat has like

30:45

the sort of infrastructure of religion,

30:47

but you don't have it doesn't have to be

30:50

religious or Tuesday dinners are not religious. It

30:52

they what what it has is

30:55

a sense of holiness. And

30:57

what holiness is, is this feeling,

30:59

it basically is like specialness, it's

31:01

something that you get to look forward to that

31:03

you are all creating together. And

31:06

so the examples she also said is

31:08

like with Shabbat, the whole

31:10

community, you know, participates. And

31:12

so every all like all the shopkeepers

31:14

close their shops. So one shopkeeper is not

31:16

going to feel like, you

31:18

know, he's losing all the business,

31:20

right? Because everybody's participating. Or

31:23

there's just all when everyone participates,

31:25

when everyone's committed, when it's not

31:27

just all on one person, there's,

31:29

you're not there's not forces where

31:31

you are. Yeah, you're

31:34

not like going against the current to

31:36

create this thing, you're going towards something

31:38

towards something. It's additive. So

31:41

you're like feeding yourself but

31:43

you are like big picture feeding. Yeah,

31:46

your body and your soul. There

31:49

are three kids who are there every time and then

31:51

all other kids come through to and like, kids are

31:53

unpredictable and you don't know what they're going to eat

31:55

and you don't know what they're going

31:57

to be feeling. You don't know You

32:00

know what I mean? Like there are tantrums. There

32:02

are like, you know, all sorts of things

32:04

that happen And that's just what part of

32:06

it is. But I think we have this

32:08

sense that well, there's always

32:11

next week You know, it right

32:13

yours it remove the pressure from

32:15

it feeling like it has to be perfect,

32:17

right? Because there's

32:19

another one coming and so sometimes,

32:22

you know The food I

32:24

make sucks or sometimes, you know, there's just a

32:26

way where like it doesn't all They're

32:28

not all winners but that doesn't

32:31

actually feel like a failure because There's

32:34

there's more next time and I think

32:36

whereas a lot of times if you have a dinner party or

32:38

if you've put something on Your calendar to hang out

32:41

with a friend who you haven't seen in a long

32:43

time and that date is still like weeks away There's

32:45

almost this pressure that builds up of like we

32:48

only have three hours. Like what are we gonna talk about? What are we gonna

32:50

do, you know, right? And so that a lot

32:52

of that pressure has been removed and

32:54

then now we have traditions Like I always ask the

32:56

kids what they want. What's their dream dinner for their

32:58

birthday and I interview them in advance and so then

33:01

We I like we make the kids dreams come true

33:04

and a lot of times the kids will make

33:06

like flower arrangements for the table It's just

33:08

a thing that we are making together and there's

33:11

no map for it But it

33:13

just feels special and it's ours that

33:15

feels so special to me that

33:17

is and Also, those

33:20

kids will probably grow up and be like we

33:22

have to have a of course we have a weekly dinner Like this

33:25

is just part of that's how we grew up. That's

33:27

how we grew up with this people all around

33:29

just this like wild Dinner

33:32

thing that we did and it was just easy

33:35

The fact that it can be kind

33:37

of breezy and no pressure. I do

33:39

feel like if people

33:42

are very I mean

33:44

the whole like kind of

33:46

like the advent of just that like Martha

33:49

Stewart style entertaining It

33:51

was totally and beautiful social media has

33:53

only like created way more of a

33:56

pressure way more of that So actually I

33:58

love to watch people make a giant casserole

34:01

in a big tin

34:03

foil pan. Totally, totally. That is

34:05

the most insane thing. I

34:09

don't really want to eat it, but I sort

34:11

of want to be there when everybody else is

34:13

eating it. And just like... Yeah, I

34:15

mean, there's also like all sorts of community activists since

34:17

the beginning of time have been doing like a

34:19

soup pot, you know, or a pot of

34:22

beans or whatever. Like there's a guy who's

34:24

like famous in New Orleans for his red beans and rice

34:26

every week. You know, like I think, I mean, I think

34:28

there's probably more than one guy, but like there's one guy

34:31

I know who does it. You know, it doesn't

34:33

have to be extravagant. It's like the food

34:35

is not the vehicle. Right.

34:37

Or maybe the food is the vehicle for the meaning, maybe

34:39

is what it is. But the food's not crucial. Yeah,

34:42

sometimes you have a potluck and

34:45

everybody brings Swedish meatballs. Everybody

34:48

is just eight pots. Totally. And

34:50

Swedish meatballs and then one person brought a box of

34:53

donuts and you can have fun. At

34:55

least the meatballs can sit in the donuts. It's

34:58

the perfect union of two wonderful foods.

35:01

I love this story. I

35:04

love that you're doing this. I love

35:07

that you're talking about it. I think

35:09

it's very, it's very motivating for people

35:11

because it is hard to like erase

35:13

all that ideas about being a perfect

35:15

host and like having children who

35:17

are like doing the right thing or like separating

35:20

the children. I don't like to

35:22

do that either. Like everybody to just

35:24

be there and be perfectly imperfect. It's

35:26

fine. Yeah. There's no,

35:28

there's no nothing fancy about the

35:31

way about this. Yeah. Which

35:33

is sometimes food turns out badly. Totally. It

35:35

really does. Even though like the best

35:38

efforts are just not rewarded

35:40

with deliciousness. I

35:42

was gone. I was, I was on

35:44

the East Coast at a writing residency for six weeks. So I

35:46

missed, it was really hard. Like I missed six. Yeah.

35:50

Now they're on Monday. Okay. I'm

35:52

going to go to the dinners and

35:55

it was so sad. So when we came back and also

35:57

like, I just wanted to come home and eat my own

35:59

cooking after that. And so I was

36:01

like, I'm going to cook this one. I'm going to cook

36:03

this one. I'm going to make spaghetti and meatballs, which is

36:05

funny because I actually don't feel like meatballs belong on spaghetti,

36:07

but it just felt like a good thing to eat with

36:09

kids. Sure. And so I made the

36:11

spaghetti and meatballs. And the other thing was I had

36:13

COVID in July and I still

36:15

have like a sort of

36:18

a recycling taste and

36:20

smell distortion. It's not at all

36:22

times, but like I think

36:24

it'll eventually go away. But that was one

36:26

of my one of the things that happened to me. So when

36:28

I was making spaghetti and meatballs, my taste buds were all

36:31

off. And so I

36:33

made the dinner and brought it over and it was so salty.

36:37

Like, like and then even after a house, like that's

36:39

where I cooked the pasta. I just I just hadn't

36:41

put salt in a pot of water in so long.

36:43

So I put so much. And

36:46

every everyone was like, this is really good for

36:48

me. And I was like, I was like, something's

36:51

wrong. I couldn't read. I was like, something's wrong.

36:53

I'm trying to read your facial expressions

36:55

and no one's really finishing. No one's

36:57

asking for a second. Exactly. Nobody finished

36:59

their place. That

37:03

feels different. Hold

37:07

that thought more with some mean not right after

37:09

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39:01

create. What

39:09

made you, because you just mentioned that

39:11

you, you know, like writing it, the

39:14

writing process or like developing a cookbook

39:16

is so, I think

39:18

it's probably a slow process for the fastest

39:21

writer. I

39:24

don't know, it's extra slow for

39:26

me. It seems, it's an

39:28

excruciating process for a regular person

39:31

who's writing. It's like, it can be, you know, it's

39:33

not like writing is like the worst job in the

39:35

world. It

39:38

touches a lot of people. I can't

39:40

imagine doing anything else, but it's terrible

39:43

and great. Whatever.

39:45

What made you like, I guess what, what

39:47

flipped the switch and you were like, all

39:49

right, I'll do. Were you

39:51

like, I have an idea for a cookbook. I don't even want

39:53

to say it out loud because somebody's going to want me to

39:55

make it. Or were

39:58

people over your publishers like. We gotta

40:00

do a follow-up book. I

40:03

mean, I actually had an

40:05

idea for a follow-up book that was

40:07

almost as big in scope as Salt

40:11

Fat Acid Heat. And so that was

40:13

actually the book that I sold and

40:15

planned to make. And so I worked on

40:17

that for over a year. And

40:20

then I sort of had a breakdown.

40:22

And I realized, like, I can't spend... It's gonna take

40:24

me another 20 years to... I

40:28

just realized what it would take for me to accomplish

40:31

that. And I was like, I don't

40:33

have this in me. I'm so tired. Yeah. So

40:35

at one point I was like, I can't do this. I was like, take

40:38

the money back. I don't want to... Yeah.

40:41

And they were like, it's okay. You can actually do whatever you

40:43

want. Just sit with it and figure out what you want. And

40:45

I was like, okay. I was like, I will never do another

40:47

book. I just was so dark. It was dark times. And

40:51

then I have a British agent and an

40:53

American agent. And so one day my British

40:56

agent was talking to my American agent and

40:58

she said, oh, I made some means like salmon last

41:00

night. And it's just every time I cook any of

41:02

her recipes, they're just... Everyone loves them

41:04

and they're so simple. And

41:06

I don't understand why Samin always insists

41:08

on making everything so hard for herself. Like

41:10

she could just write a book of recipes

41:13

and people would... Her recipes are so simple

41:15

and good and people would love them. And

41:17

so then she told that to my American

41:19

agent who then told me. And I was like, are

41:22

you kidding me? I was like, has Felicity

41:24

even met me? That is the

41:26

biggest insult in the world. I would never just write

41:28

a book of recipes. I hate recipes. And

41:31

I had a whole tantrum about it. One

41:34

week later, one week, I'm

41:38

in my kitchen and I'm making

41:40

this cabbage slaw with miso dressing

41:42

that I had made all COVID

41:44

long. And it was basically, I was reverse

41:46

engineering the slaw from this fancy deli near

41:48

my house. And I'm making this

41:50

thing and it's so delicious and it's like tangy

41:52

and gingery and so good, creamy. And

41:55

it's like a cabbage, it's like half a cabbage and

41:57

it lasts like five days. It's just so cheap. easy

42:00

and fast and so good. And I'm like,

42:02

man, people should know about this. I was like,

42:04

if only I had a way to tell people

42:06

about this. If only

42:09

we lived in a world.

42:11

Whoops. Hi, everyone. And

42:17

so then I said, so then I was like,

42:19

in my head I said, I said, what

42:22

if I just don't tell anyone I had this

42:24

idea. And for a while I keep it to

42:26

myself. And I just think about what I would

42:29

put into a book of recipes. Because part

42:33

of my desire to not

42:36

make recipes is that, or

42:40

just like a recipe only cookbook, is that

42:42

in the publishing industry there are a lot

42:44

of, I'm sure this is true in

42:46

many industries, but in the publishing industry there are a lot

42:48

of sort of tried and true

42:50

ways to make something. And there are a lot

42:53

of people who believe that's the only way to

42:55

make something. And I'd really come up against that

42:57

with my first book, which is very

42:59

different. And I'd entirely

43:02

rejected it, basically, because I was like, I have

43:05

a different way for this thing, which needs to

43:07

be presented in a different way. But

43:09

if I was going to make a book of

43:11

recipes, I didn't have an argument for a different

43:13

way. And so what they

43:15

usually like is the chapters

43:18

that sort of correspond to the courses

43:20

in a meal or time of day or

43:22

something, and

43:24

then some amount of photos. And then you write

43:26

a little introduction for each recipe. And

43:29

I just was like, I don't think I could do

43:31

that. Also, it felt like a betrayal to my own

43:33

self, because I had spent all of my career

43:35

up to that point, trying to teach people how

43:37

to not use recipes. So

43:39

I was

43:42

like, I don't know about this, like, so I

43:44

sort of just kept it in my little heart. And I had

43:46

a little doc thing in my notes app, and

43:48

I would just like write down like, Oh, I would definitely put

43:50

this and I would definitely put this and these

43:53

are the things I cook for myself. And these are the

43:55

things I cook for my friends. They're all super

43:57

simple. I have some level of embarrassment because they're

43:59

not like Instagram-able foods most of

44:01

them. It's just like, I'm at home

44:03

eating, you know, steamed rice and broccoli. And

44:06

then people come over and I share it and they're like, why is

44:08

this broccoli so good? And I'm like, I put salt in the water,

44:10

you know, like, or I make

44:12

these condiments. And like the condiments are what makes

44:14

things good or the dressings are what makes things

44:16

good. But the stuff I do is mostly very

44:18

simple. And so it doesn't

44:20

really, it's not like picture worthy, really.

44:23

And so I had

44:26

like anxiety about that. So I just kept doing it.

44:28

And eventually I came up with a list and I

44:30

sent it to them and this thing's good or the

44:32

dressings are what makes things good. But the stuff I

44:34

do is mostly very simple. And so it doesn't

44:37

really, it's not like picture worthy, really.

44:40

And so I had, I

44:43

had like anxiety about that. So I just kept

44:45

doing it. And eventually I came up with a

44:47

list and I sent it to them and they

44:49

were thrilled. And so I was

44:51

like, okay, this is what I'll do. This is what I'll

44:53

do. And then it still has taken a few more years

44:55

of working on it. And eventually once

44:57

I sort of, and I had to,

44:59

in a way, like the title of the book kept

45:02

changing in my head. And

45:04

eventually one day I woke

45:06

up, I've had a lot

45:08

of grief and loss in my life, especially in the

45:10

last few years. And I

45:14

have these documents where I like keep little quotes for

45:16

myself in case I want to use them in my writing. So

45:19

I had opened one of them. And one of the

45:21

quotes there was, it said, actually

45:24

have it on my wall now. It was eating is

45:26

a small, good thing in a time like this, which

45:29

is a line from a Raymond Carver story called

45:31

A Small, Good Thing, where this little boy dies

45:33

and the parents are grieving and the, they

45:36

end up in this bakery and the baker starts like

45:38

pulling rolls out of the oven. And he says that

45:40

to them. He's like, you can't really, like,

45:42

it's just, it's like, there's a big darkness,

45:45

but you can have this small, good thing.

45:48

And I, to me, I'm like, it's always a

45:50

time like this. Somebody's always suffering. Someone's always grieving.

45:52

There's always a hardship. And like, we just need

45:55

the small, good things. And so I thought, oh,

45:57

maybe I'll call my book A Small, Good Thing.

46:01

And then, but then I was like, people

46:03

wonder why this big book is called this book. So

46:07

I ended up with the title Good Things sort of

46:09

as a like a as an homage to that. And

46:13

I was like, okay, I feel good about this.

46:15

And the next morning I woke up and I was like,

46:17

oh, all good things must come to an end. I was

46:19

like, that's my dessert chapter. And then I was like,

46:21

oh, like, good things come to

46:23

those who wait. That's seasonal vegetables.

46:25

Right. I was like, good things take

46:27

time. That's like yeasted breads. And

46:31

I was like, you know, good things come in

46:33

threes. And I was like, that's my salad dressing

46:35

plus like three salads for each one or good

46:37

things come in small packages. That's my condiments. Like

46:39

it all just sort of revealed itself to me

46:41

in one go once I had my title.

46:43

And then I understood how to organize my book, which

46:45

had just been this like unruly

46:48

mess. And so

46:50

now I understand what I'm making, which is

46:52

really helpful. Right. I

46:55

cannot. I'm excited. All of

46:57

this. This is

46:59

going to be great. There's someone

47:02

gave me this is not it's

47:04

going to sound like I'm name

47:06

dropping and I can't I'm not I kind of

47:09

am because this has not happened. I mean, what

47:11

can I say? Yeah. I've worked

47:13

on this off-Broadway play and it

47:15

was written by Nora and

47:17

Delia Efron. Oh, and

47:19

incredible. Like, oh my God, those

47:21

women. And I think about Nora

47:24

Efron all the time. I'm like, I can't believe

47:26

she is no longer with us. But

47:29

one of the gifts that they

47:31

gave us at the end, at

47:33

the conclusion of doing like our leg of the

47:35

show was like a homemade cookbook that Nora would

47:38

give to everyone. Oh my gosh. That's

47:40

so special. It's just a spiral

47:42

bound, really small, like maybe five

47:45

by six notebook of just all

47:47

the recipes that she makes to entertain. And

47:50

her little notes. I love that. It is

47:53

so precious. It's not bound. It's like

47:56

just papers with a little plastic cover.

47:58

It's like not fancy at all. the

48:01

recipes are not fancy and

48:03

they're great. And some of them, I've

48:06

made a lot of them over the years because

48:08

they're just like from the heart

48:10

and what she would make. And there's lineage

48:12

there for you, which is amazing. It's such

48:14

a gift. So I guess, I don't know,

48:16

what you're doing is, it is a

48:19

gift because it's like, it's

48:21

your heart speaking to all of us and

48:25

you know, nourishing people, nourishing the

48:27

people in your life. It's

48:30

how I express love for my

48:32

kids, for my family, like for

48:34

people who come over. It's how,

48:36

it's almost the only tool in

48:38

my arsenal. I love to cook for people. I

48:40

just go, here you go. I

48:43

don't know. I mean, I think this

48:46

is related, this is actually related to

48:48

a lot of things I've been thinking and writing about

48:50

and back to those weekly dinners, which is

48:53

the, you

48:55

know, I think it's dawned on me

48:59

that the most precious, I kind

49:02

of have had my values off and

49:05

I've been like kind of, I had

49:07

been pointed at the wrong things in

49:10

life. And there has just

49:12

been a sort of a seismic

49:15

shift in how

49:17

I view life in the last few years. And

49:19

I understand now that our

49:22

most valuable commodity is

49:24

time. Like my most precious thing

49:26

that I have is time. That's the only thing

49:28

I'll never be able to get more of. And

49:33

so the most precious gift that I

49:35

can share with anyone is a gift

49:37

of time, whether that's time I spend

49:40

cooking and eating with them or time

49:42

I spend in making something for them.

49:45

And so I understand now, I'm

49:48

like, oh, this is actually the

49:50

thing, is the time, right? It's

49:52

not how beautifully it turned out,

49:54

right? It's that we got to

49:56

be together or that I got to invest this

49:58

time in this and you feel that. And

50:00

so, and I think

50:02

that's what you're saying too, is that like you're

50:05

expressing your love through your cooking for your kids,

50:07

but that means like you're spending time with and

50:09

for them. Spending time and also

50:11

like foraging too, like

50:13

you're doing all these like kind

50:15

of like eternal or

50:17

just like these ancient practices,

50:20

right? Or like even as though we're going

50:22

to stores or farmer's markets or like wherever

50:24

we're going, like myself,

50:27

I'm sure you, my friends, people who care

50:30

about this stuff are just like, well, I

50:32

have to, this is very

50:34

busy today because I have to go

50:36

downtown. There's this thing that

50:38

you can only get in the- Totally, totally. In

50:40

the one store where you get the one thing.

50:42

Just like one thing and I got to go

50:45

there and everyone's like, this is not, this

50:47

doesn't count as busyness. And you're like, no, I'm

50:49

very busy. Yes, 100% agree.

50:52

Very busy because I'm going to get finger lines

50:54

and there's only one place. Exactly. And

50:57

I'm like, what are you talking about? All of that- Don't

50:59

you know what's important? Tom. I've

51:02

got to get the butter and this, there's

51:05

a place in the South street seaport that

51:07

sells it. Yes. So we're

51:09

going on a trip. I'm

51:14

really enjoying this conversation because you're pulling all

51:16

these threads of like, that makes

51:18

so much sense to me that really resonates.

51:20

It is the time, it's the time that

51:23

it takes to make something even if it

51:25

turns out weird. Totally.

51:28

I just was like telling the producers before

51:30

you hopped on that I was like, yesterday

51:32

I had this big vision for our dinner

51:34

and it was going to be a very

51:36

simple dinner, but the key ingredient was that

51:38

I was going to make like the cilantro

51:40

lime rice to just kind of bring

51:42

everything. I just needed like a starch. Just like,

51:44

just like a, just to put at the bottom

51:47

of the bowl that everyone would just eat. And

51:49

I messed it up and I made it

51:51

with parsley. And I was

51:53

like- I still agree. It was green. But

51:56

it's not so hard. But I was,

51:58

I don't even know how I messed up. I

52:00

thought it was so I didn't even look at it. I obviously didn't

52:02

look at it and it It

52:05

just was I kept eating. I kept trying it.

52:07

I was like taste it's like what is wrong?

52:10

Why does this taste like grass? This

52:12

is like a bowl of grass. Yes. Fuck

52:14

is happening It

52:18

took so long to make

52:20

this goddamn rice That

52:22

everyone just like threw in the bottom of the bowl and

52:24

they eat it in 15

52:27

seconds It's like probably

52:29

took two full hours of just like coming

52:31

back to it going like I don't know

52:34

what's happening I need more it

52:36

needs more cilantro You

52:40

know And then

52:43

everyone just goes whatever. I don't know I digested

52:45

it and you just have to go that's part

52:47

of that's part of it

52:49

It's not it's not glory tomorrow. That's the

52:51

thing. There's more feels. Yeah There's

52:54

always tomorrow we don't need to remember

52:56

that scene in the Joy Luck Club I think about

52:58

it all the time This is it was so bad.

53:00

I'm gonna say this about long. Tell me tell me

53:02

I know Okay, they cook

53:05

this mom cooks this

53:07

huge feast. Okay. She's just

53:09

like the incredible

53:11

spread and The

53:14

future like the Sun-in-law or the

53:16

future fiance and you

53:18

know Part of what she

53:20

does is she'll it's so perfect

53:22

that nothing could possibly be wrong with

53:24

it And so she'll just like

53:27

at the head of the table say at every

53:29

meal I think it needed more

53:31

salt which was everybody's cue to go Perfect

53:37

and he goes yeah, I guess it could use

53:39

a little more salt and it is

53:41

like the most It

53:45

is such a crime in this

53:47

family's like scandal

53:50

scandal and it's

53:52

always very funny in our home if my My

53:55

husband has like a few things that he makes and he

53:57

makes them really well, but like a twice baked potato And

54:00

we always laugh at him because if he's making

54:02

twice baked potatoes, we're like, everybody

54:05

get out of the way. Every dish

54:07

in the house. It's like

54:09

a Tasmanian devil has come through the kitchen. It's like

54:11

the Joy Luck Club. And then

54:13

we all have to comment on the potatoes. It's like,

54:16

is this... I

54:20

spiced it. I

54:23

smoked it. Like, we start with

54:25

a smoked potato. You

54:28

don't truly complement

54:31

the potato. I'm like, I make

54:33

20,000 meals. Totally

54:36

for your one potato. For

54:38

every potato. But it is a great

54:41

potato and I love them. But I love

54:43

those unifying

54:45

moments, those big,

54:48

small gestures, these huge gestures.

54:50

And it's all just food

54:52

that we digest in the

54:54

end. Totally. I

54:56

think that's one of the other things that's been really

54:59

healthy and good for me as a

55:01

cook is, first

55:05

of all, you get the pleasure of

55:07

making something from start to finish and actually

55:09

have something. Because as a writer, it takes

55:12

years to make something from start to finish. But as a

55:15

cook, you do that every day. But

55:18

also, there's not really time to get

55:20

attached to your product because

55:22

it's gone and then literally tomorrow it's

55:24

shit. There's just a way

55:27

where, yeah, you

55:29

can pat yourself on the back for a second if

55:31

you did something nice, but you can't hold on to

55:33

that. It doesn't mean anything if you just walk around

55:35

being like, well, I made really good roast chicken once

55:37

17 years ago. You should

55:39

have tasted my pot roast

55:41

last week. Yeah, yeah. You talk, let's go

55:43

back in time. That's

55:46

actually so accidentally,

55:50

we got to a place where every

55:52

day is a fresh start. If you're

55:54

cooking for people literally every day, it's

55:56

a fresh start. I'll

56:00

ask you, okay, last question. What do you eat

56:02

when you're in an airport? Oh,

56:05

this is interesting. I am

56:07

a big on a PBJ. So like

56:10

I like have a PBJ in all the pockets, like,

56:13

but if I'm

56:15

like buying something in an airport, oh, man,

56:18

baby, I bring my own food,

56:20

like, if I'm flying from where I

56:22

live, somewhere, I'll bring my that

56:25

meal is made from made

56:27

at home. And it's annoying to everyone. And

56:29

I put it in a glad where and

56:31

oh, yeah, same. It's like I'm driving the last time

56:33

I when I was going to the East Coast. The

56:36

girl sitting next to me, I think she recognized me

56:38

at some point. She's like, Oh, I think

56:40

you are. I was but I was

56:42

eating a prepackaged kale salad that

56:44

I brought from from the Good deli. Yeah. She's

56:47

like, Oh, yeah, I'm embarrassed to show you my food.

56:49

And I was like, I don't care what you're saying. I'm never

56:51

going to judge you. You know, I'm never going

56:53

to judge anyone for anything. Yeah. But I don't

56:56

know if there's like a Mexican place. I'm all

56:58

get like a bean and cheese burrito. Yeah. Like,

57:00

it's very hard. I mean, it has happened, but

57:02

it's hard to mess up a bean cheese burrito.

57:04

That's a good choice. What

57:06

else would I eat? I don't

57:09

it's not an airport food.

57:11

It's not pretty, man. I don't think

57:13

it has to be that way. I don't think that

57:15

airport food has to be bad. And I don't think

57:17

that hospital food should be bad. Oh, agreed.

57:19

That's its own huge own conversation.

57:22

Agree. That's a horror story. Really,

57:25

really bad. Yeah, really bad.

57:27

I'll tell you what, on an airplane,

57:29

if I if there's nothing else, I'll

57:32

have a box of cheese that's in a Coke. And

57:34

I'm like, Oh, I love cheese. It's I love.

57:36

Oh my God. That's why that's why I

57:38

love one particular airline is just endless cheese.

57:42

Look, man, if this if

57:44

dinner has to be cheese, it's in a

57:46

regular Coke. I'm like, Oh, yeah. I also

57:48

love regular Coke. That's like actually airplanes are

57:50

probably one of the only places where I'll like, really

57:53

treat myself to a soda. Yeah, me

57:55

too. I'm like, I'm almost looking forward

57:57

to it. Because I didn't realize thing

58:00

that happens on the airplane is totally

58:02

it's a go it's go time man

58:05

I love a cook

58:07

oh boy I have that one after this

58:10

God thank you again and so much so

58:12

what a fun this is a great start

58:14

to this is a great start to January

58:16

it totally is it totally is I

58:19

think yeah just find how

58:21

I think to my like if anyone asked not

58:23

that they did for some advice I would be

58:25

like you

58:27

know your things probably not gonna look like

58:30

my thing and that's totally fine but just

58:32

find a way to like create sort of

58:34

a sacred time in your life a sacred

58:36

time sacred time thank

58:38

you so much thank

58:41

you that

58:51

was to me not threat and I had

58:53

no choice but to look up one thing

58:55

to me and I both love citrus and

58:58

we were thinking of our favorites and

59:00

then that led me on a crazy

59:02

quest of trying to name all the citrus so

59:05

I actually had to know

59:07

are there over a thousand

59:09

types of citrus they're less here

59:12

maybe today I'd again my

59:14

question to add them all and as

59:16

always good news there's more choice

59:18

words with lemonade a premium subscribers

59:20

get exclusive access to bonus content

59:23

like a special outtake from my

59:25

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as we continue in our quest to make better choices

59:29

in 2024 be sure you come back

59:32

next week to hear from the fascinating

59:34

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59:37

we're gonna talk all about how we

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