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Let's create. We

2:00

are often invited into

2:02

situations where even

2:05

just showing up with a

2:07

sense of possibility, even just

2:09

showing up with conviction that progress

2:11

can be made quickly. I'm

2:14

trying not to overstate this, but it can

2:16

change the structure of the problem and the

2:18

way people experience it. I think it's true.

2:21

When I watch an organization that has

2:23

an intractable problem, we have no senior

2:25

women and we have to go and

2:27

have them graduate from high school at

2:29

a different rate. I've

2:31

seen your women are a company. We

2:34

got to address the pipeline in

2:36

the second grade classroom curriculum.

2:41

The only thing I can think of is to go

2:43

and do it there. It feels very intractable. But

2:46

when we bring a

2:48

sense of what we often refer to as

2:50

can-do lesbian spirit, but when we bring that

2:53

possibility and optimism and rigor,

2:55

I find

2:58

that people just gravitate towards it

3:00

so quickly. At first, they're super

3:02

resistant because they don't believe it's

3:04

possible, and then it's like the

3:06

clouds part and the sun shines

3:08

in. I know we joke about

3:10

it and we joked about it on the show,

3:12

but there is something very serious

3:15

at the center of it, which

3:17

is that you can't solve a

3:19

problem until you believe that it

3:21

is solvable. Such a good point.

3:25

Part of the privilege of

3:27

being an outsider is we get to come

3:30

in with high conviction that the problem is

3:32

solvable, which can be harder to

3:34

access when you're in the middle of it. We

3:36

don't do it with false optimism. We

3:39

do it with rigor and optimism. We

3:41

know it can be solvable because we've been able to

3:44

pattern match in so many other places. now.

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Gladwell, welcome to Fixable. Thank you.

8:36

So, I'll try to establish just some

8:38

quick context for this conversation because we

8:41

could talk to you for hours about many

8:43

things. But in

8:45

our work, we are very interested

8:47

in how to fix things and

8:50

solve seemingly entrenched

8:52

problems at any

8:54

scale, but we're particularly interested in organizations. You

8:58

have an astonishing track record of

9:01

telling stories and reframing problems in

9:03

ways that create possibility where

9:06

it seems like truly there is no room

9:08

for progress. And the

9:10

list of issues where you've moved the needle include

9:13

gun control, homelessness,

9:17

our wacky college ranking

9:19

system. I think you probably would use

9:21

stronger words. But these are

9:23

all problems where we've kind of thrown in

9:25

the towel as Americans. And

9:28

you fearlessly, from our perspective,

9:30

went after it. And

9:33

I'm curious how you

9:35

see your work from a

9:37

mission standpoint. Are

9:39

you setting out to create a sense of possibility?

9:41

Because that's what it feels

9:43

like in terms of a byproduct. Yeah,

9:46

I don't know how explicit it is.

9:48

I certainly feel like there's

9:51

sort of no point to doing what

9:53

we do as journalists unless you're going

9:56

to point the way forward in some way. I

9:58

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36:54

Oh, Francis, I loved that conversation. I learned

36:56

so much. I think there are

36:58

two threads that I think will

37:01

really stick with me. Oh, wonderful.

37:03

So I mean, the place he

37:05

ended with the

37:07

world being this unstable place

37:09

in a wonderful and

37:12

beautiful way that is actually more

37:15

changeable than we think it is.

37:17

It's such a powerful

37:20

reminder because we get stuck

37:22

on these stories

37:24

that all of these things are immovable.

37:26

And not only are they immovable, but

37:29

they're easier to move than

37:31

we think they're going to be. It's

37:33

such a optimistic view of the world

37:35

and I want it to be true.

37:37

Do you experience that as true in

37:40

our work changing organizations? I do. In

37:43

our work, we often say change can happen

37:45

in an instant and it's always

37:47

a surprise to organizations when we go in

37:49

at how much can change and how quickly

37:52

it can change. Yeah, it just may take

37:54

a while to get to that instant in

37:58

some situations, I think. The

38:01

other piece that I

38:03

know I'm gonna hold onto and

38:05

think about is his point about,

38:09

cause despair is this emotion that we also

38:11

deal with all the time

38:13

in our work. And his own experience

38:16

that the people closest to the problem are the

38:18

ones that are experiencing the least amount of despair.

38:20

And so in some ways you gotta keep going.

38:22

You gotta get in there. You gotta get, first

38:24

of all, you gotta get in there yourself. And

38:27

if you can't get past those

38:29

kinds of emotional barriers, then you gotta find the

38:32

people who have their sleeves up

38:34

and are making progress. Cause

38:36

they have enough information to see where

38:38

the pockets of opportunity are gonna

38:40

be. And in my Thomas

38:43

the train is a useful engine view of

38:45

life. This

38:47

totally tracks that those

38:49

of us that are really close

38:51

and doing the work, that like

38:53

metabolizes despair. We have the can

38:55

do spirit associated with it and

38:58

it's just the passive observers, often from

39:01

the cheap seats that are feeling the

39:03

most despair because they're not useful engines.

39:05

Yes, yes, I love that. That's

39:09

our show. Thanks for listening. We'll

39:11

be taking a publishing break for the next few

39:13

weeks and returning on August 26th. In

39:16

the meantime, Fixable will still be in your feed

39:18

with some episodes from other shows we think you

39:20

might like. Take care everyone. Thanks

39:23

for listening. If you wanna figure out your

39:25

workplace problem together, please send us a message.

39:27

We would love to have you on the

39:30

show. Email fixable at ted.com

39:32

or call 234 Fixable. That's

39:35

234-349-2253. And

39:39

if you're under the age of 35, you can also text us. Honestly,

39:44

any way you wanna communicate with us,

39:46

we are delighted to hear from you.

39:49

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39:51

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