0:05

This. Is a word about gas from

0:07

Slate. I'm your oath Jason Johnson. After

0:09

the Civil War, the Republican party was

0:12

the first political home of African Americans.

0:14

Up until the mid twentieth century. Black

0:16

folks were more likely to vote for

0:18

the G O P N. Many black

0:20

heroes remembers of the party. So when

0:22

the things go left the circus, the

0:25

tracks, clowns and the G O he

0:27

has been a circus for a long

0:29

time. Whatever happened to the black Republicans

0:31

coming up on a work with me?

0:33

Jason Johnson, stay with us. Girl

0:41

Real Target this whole it's a New

0:44

Year term to reinvent myself to ours

0:46

is not designed for twenty Twenty four.

0:48

You can find someone who loves you

0:50

for you as you are. You don't

0:53

need to read a stack of self

0:55

help books, only eat salads or like

0:57

start meditating five am to be ready

0:59

for dating. So yeah, my advice is

1:02

to download bundle and find someone who

1:04

embraces you the way you are Right

1:06

now let me know how it goes.

1:14

Walking To Work a podcast about race

1:16

and politics and everything else. I'm your

1:18

Host Jason Johnson, Frederick Douglas. Jackie.

1:21

Robinson and I'd be wells.

1:24

Whether. They all have in common. Well yes,

1:26

they're all giants and black history. But.

1:28

There were also all members of the

1:30

republican party. As were many

1:32

African American leaders and voters for decades

1:34

after the end of the Civil War,

1:37

And. Vac more than a decade before

1:39

most of us had heard of the

1:41

guy named Barack Obama, a black republican,

1:43

was widely thought to be the best

1:46

candidate to become the first African American

1:48

President. He was Colin Powell. speaking of

1:50

the Nineteen Ninety Six G O P

1:52

Convention. You. All know that

1:54

I believe and a woman's right to

1:56

choose and I strongly support affirmative action.

2:06

He got grew up business and

2:08

vision of people to disagree on

2:10

individual issues and still work together

2:12

for a common goal. That

2:18

I was really call him how he would

2:20

go on to leave the Joint Chiefs of

2:23

Staff in the State Department. but he voted

2:25

for Obama and eventually left the Republican party

2:27

all together. During. The administration of

2:29

former President Trump over the last

2:31

few years. Instead of elder statesmen

2:33

and women like Colin Powell, former

2:35

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, or

2:37

for the Rnc chair Michael Steele

2:39

taking over and sort of becoming

2:42

the godfathers and godmothers a Black

2:44

Republicans. They've. Been replaced by

2:46

political light weights and all my

2:48

for Barca tours and hucksters like

2:50

Kansas Owens or the Trump Loving

2:52

both jangling sister Act of Diamonds

2:55

Silk. We

2:57

thought we dive in itself to know what

3:00

we like about Donald. Myself

3:02

going to go. And do exactly

3:04

what he said on the seals.

3:08

May have for out that. So. What

3:10

Happened In: Is there any place for

3:12

serious Black conservatives and the Republican party

3:14

anymore? Join his. Talk about

3:17

that is journalists and broadcaster Clay

3:19

Came His new book is the

3:21

Grist. The downward Spiral A black

3:23

Republicans from the party of Lincoln

3:25

to the calls from Cocaine Loves

3:27

Austin's You welcome back to Work.

3:29

Thank. You Doctor Jason Johnson, it's an

3:31

honor to be. He appreciates you man. My.

3:34

First question for you is like what

3:36

inspired you to write this book And

3:38

right now I really feel like I

3:41

began writing this book when I was

3:43

in college at Rutgers University Newark that

3:45

I learned. All. Of this history.

3:48

Black. Political History. That.

3:50

began with black republicans and

3:52

by the time i mean

3:54

college i began to see

3:56

folks like colin powell and

3:58

condoleezza rice who I disagree

4:00

with passionately, but I wouldn't say they were

4:03

a grifter, but they were complicated. And then

4:05

by the time we get to the Trump

4:07

era, in the book, in the intro, I

4:09

talk about this, I had a friend

4:12

who, black gay man, who told

4:14

me he was becoming a

4:16

Republican. And I said, why

4:19

are you doing this? And he

4:21

said that it was good consumerism. That's

4:24

when I really saw that there

4:26

is a robust check, a congressional

4:28

seat sometimes, for the

4:30

delusional black Republican

4:33

who is willing to uphold white

4:35

supremacy and anti-blackness. And

4:38

then you began to see the sincere

4:40

black Republicans, they're pushed

4:42

out of the party. I mean, you

4:44

know, you mentioned Colin Powell, right? In

4:47

the book, I break this down how

4:49

in 2000, when he mentions affirmative action

4:51

at the RNC convention, he's booed. So

4:53

you see this downward spiral.

4:55

And I felt like

4:59

one, I think about Ida B.

5:01

Wells, she said, the way to

5:03

right wrongs is to turn the

5:05

light of truth upon them. This

5:07

book is my way of shining that light.

5:10

Because what we have right now, how do we

5:12

go from Frederick Douglass to Clarence Thomas? Ida

5:15

B. Wells would be rolling in her grave at

5:18

the likes of Candace Owens. I wanted

5:20

to write this book to call out

5:22

extremism, that who knew that

5:24

faces of the Southern strategy of

5:26

today would be black faces. And

5:29

I felt like it was crucial to say, this

5:32

is extremism, we must call it out. And

5:34

black folks who are upholding white supremacy are

5:36

very dangerous. So I want

5:39

to focus on the title of the book, you

5:41

call it the grift, right? And that

5:44

is very important because you

5:47

are implying, hell, you're

5:49

directly stating, right? A

5:52

thief is somebody who takes things. A charlatan

5:54

is somebody who pretends to be something that

5:56

they're not. But a grifter is

5:59

something somebody who sort

6:02

of gains confidence, right, gains

6:04

your trust and then

6:06

takes something from you. That's a very

6:08

specific word to use. Why do you

6:11

describe the sort of current

6:13

era of black Republicans as grifters?

6:15

What makes them grifters as opposed

6:17

to just being opportunists or you

6:20

know, obviously sincere conservatives? It's

6:22

strategy. There is a blueprint

6:25

to it. So the

6:27

watershed moment with black republicanism

6:29

really is Clarence Thomas. I

6:31

mean, this man changes the game. I mean, I

6:34

cover black Republicans in the 1970s in the

6:36

Richard Nixon era. There are

6:39

some problematic things here or there, but

6:41

names folks may not know like George

6:43

W. Lee, Floyd McKissick,

6:46

things I didn't agree with, but it

6:48

was about black capitalism that could be

6:50

complicated. But it wasn't about get

6:53

off welfare, you're done for voting Democrat,

6:55

get off the plantation, stop being victims.

6:59

Clarence Thomas comes along and he found

7:01

a way to appeal to

7:06

white conservatives who

7:08

will invest billions of dollars in him as

7:11

long as he will do the bidding of

7:13

the Republican Party. So it

7:15

was a strategy. Clarence Thomas went

7:18

to rugged individualism, even

7:20

shaming his own sister. I'm paraphrasing

7:22

here, he didn't use the word welfare queen. I

7:24

interview his sister in the book actually. He

7:27

didn't use the word, but shaming people in

7:29

his own family to say, look at

7:31

these lazy shift list black people. And

7:34

then he says, I'm the

7:36

victim. So what

7:38

makes it a grift is it's a thought

7:40

out strategy. And with

7:43

the likes of a Clarence Thomas and

7:45

even some degree, Condoleezza Rice, it's also

7:47

pulling the ladder, closing the door for

7:49

the folks behind them. So

7:51

you are lifted up because of affirmative action. Now

7:53

you want to end affirmative action, you are getting

7:56

access because of the folks before you, but now

7:58

you want to stop that access. And

8:00

then in the Trump era, it's

8:02

just full blown buffoonery with the

8:04

likes of Herschel Walker, who came

8:06

too close to being Senator of

8:08

Georgia. So the grift implies the

8:10

strategy, the execution, it's devious, but

8:13

it's also obvious. It's

8:16

obvious. And they're getting away

8:18

with it in plain sight. Here's

8:20

what's also interesting to me about

8:22

grifting. And I think this is

8:25

not just reflective

8:27

of the black

8:29

Republicans. I think this is sort of the Republican

8:31

party in general, really probably going

8:33

back to around 2012 or so, is

8:36

the idea that the grifter

8:38

is extracting and not providing,

8:40

right? They tell you they're going to do

8:42

things, but they're not really giving you anything.

8:44

And so if you had to look across

8:46

the board, what are

8:49

these modern day black

8:51

grifting Republicans, are they offering anything? Because

8:53

it seems to me that if you

8:55

jump back to the 1990s,

8:58

you could look at a JC Watts,

9:00

you could listen to an Armstrong Williams,

9:02

you could listen to some of the

9:04

black Republicans in the 90s and

9:07

say, okay, I get what you're standing for. There

9:09

is a policy element to that. I don't have

9:11

to agree with it, but there is a policy

9:13

element to it. Whereas today, Candace

9:15

Owens and Diamond and Silk and Herschel

9:18

Walker, and I don't think these people

9:20

have any ideology. Is there an ideology

9:22

or is it completely vacuous? Well, for

9:24

Candace Owens and Diamond and Silk, no,

9:26

but I would push back and say

9:29

there is ideology and there is a

9:31

policy. And the best

9:33

example of that is Daniel

9:35

Cameron. This is a person who

9:38

literally had a direct impact

9:41

on justice for Breonna

9:43

Taylor. That is

9:46

disgusting and terrifying. I

9:48

would also add Mark Robinson, who

9:50

is currently running for governor of North

9:52

Carolina. He's currently the lieutenant

9:55

governor. He beat out all the

9:57

other white Republicans. He is

9:59

the lieutenant governor. Winner of North Carolina and

10:01

he has a good shot. Have been governor.

10:04

He. Had no political experience. He

10:06

went viral for saying that.

10:08

The. To other. Black Panther was created

10:11

by Agnostic Do and was attacking Michelle

10:13

Obama through I'm on Fox News Now

10:15

He is he a lieutenant governor. When.

10:17

Some seers. When.

10:19

Some serious who with the Lieutenant Governor of

10:22

Virginia. Went. Viral for a campaign.

10:24

Have with the A are Fifteen and sell

10:26

them black folks the get off the a

10:28

democratic plantation for folks who he was the

10:30

Qantas book. It's not a have like one

10:33

paragraph on her moving on but I'm really

10:35

talking about people. Who. Have a

10:37

legislative impact on black communities and

10:39

the blood oath they make. Is

10:42

that you will hurt other black people if you can.

10:45

You. Know Clay earlier and and and

10:47

a previous partisan, twenty Twenty Three we

10:49

talked about the new camera. For those

10:52

who don't know, Daniel Cameron was the

10:54

Attorney General and the state of Kentucky

10:56

use republican and he ran for governor

10:59

against the incumbent democrat and he lost

11:01

by a larger margin than the last

11:03

republican who ran in Kentucky. What really

11:06

struck me about his loss? Is.

11:08

Not just that, this black republican who

11:10

you know, Mitch Mcconnell loved and swamp

11:12

love. It's not just as black republican

11:15

loss in a blood red state. right?

11:18

It was the way he lost. It

11:20

reminded me of Kin Blackwell.

11:23

Who was a black republican who ran for

11:25

Governor of Ohio in the mid two thousand

11:27

and everybody thought he was the greatest thing

11:29

and he was considered to be a George

11:31

Bush kind of black republic. and he was

11:33

Secretary of State and see got beat My

11:36

question. About Cameron and in

11:38

comparing him to Black Well is. it

11:40

seems to me that there is a

11:42

ceiling that even these ambitious black republicans

11:45

in the reaching you can kiss all

11:47

the but you can be daniel cameron

11:49

and you can basically stifle the investigation

11:52

into the cops who murder brianna taylor

11:54

you make sure that nobody gets held

11:56

accountable for this you can commit a

11:59

full fledged blood sacrifice

12:01

to white conservatives and it still won't

12:03

get you the prize. So what's

12:06

their incentive? Because it doesn't

12:08

seem like this particular grift is getting

12:10

you into the highest offices in the

12:12

land. Yeah, that's the thing though.

12:15

I don't think it's about the highest office in the land.

12:17

I don't think it's about omnipotent power. And

12:20

one of the people that I interview in the book who

12:23

used to be a black Republican and left the party, he

12:25

said that he was told, know your place.

12:29

You will only go but so far. And you

12:31

know what, Jason? He accepted that.

12:35

And then when he stopped accepting it, you

12:37

know the script, baby. He started crying

12:39

racism. You know how they do. Omarosa

12:41

did it. Stacey Dash did it. You

12:44

know what I'm saying? Now some are a

12:46

little bit more crafty. Supreme Court

12:48

Justice Clarence Thomas, he was crafty. But with

12:50

Daniel Cameron, you got to remember, he did

12:52

what needed to be done. You did the

12:54

blood oath. We all need you anymore. You

12:57

made sure that Breonna Taylor's family didn't get

12:59

justice. You blocked it from them being able

13:02

to charge those cops with homicide. You

13:04

did the work. You've tap danced enough.

13:07

We don't need you anymore. We're happy. We'll

13:09

go on to the next. But here's what I always

13:11

say with Herschel Walker, folks who ran for Senator

13:14

of Georgia, former NFL player, folks that,

13:16

oh, he's a victim. They're taking advantage

13:18

of him. He's not a victim. He

13:21

knows what he's doing. And you know, it's funny. You

13:24

bring up J.C. Watts. You're

13:26

on him in the book, J.C. Watts, who

13:28

was a congressman from Oklahoma. In

13:33

the beginning when he was running for office, a lot

13:35

of folks forget this, Jason. He was

13:37

making heinous comments about black folks. He

13:40

was calling Reverend Jesse Jackson, well,

13:42

he had denied directing it towards

13:45

him, race baiting, poverty

13:47

pimps, calling out a lot

13:49

of people. Then When he

13:51

gets in the, he wins and he's

13:53

getting all this fundraising for calling out

13:55

black leaders. I Mean, he made fundraising

13:57

records. The.

14:00

He realizes there's a ceiling. And

14:03

he starts pivoting. Babies are advocating for

14:05

affirmative action when he was against affirmative

14:07

action. Then he leaves, He leaves field,

14:09

he resigns. And then John Lewis the

14:11

same congressman's are Louis from Georgia the

14:13

late great is saying please don't leave,

14:15

We need you there So even he

14:17

realised. Maybe. He didn't know the beginning.

14:20

But. There. Is a ceiling I

14:22

didn't obey? And. Now and then

14:24

And one of the great quotes he says,

14:26

the Republican Party I'm paraphrasing here expects you

14:29

to forget your blackness. So. That they

14:31

sometimes have this com diseases moments. So to

14:33

call a pow we love call a bow

14:35

but his. Two. Sister is a

14:37

little bit new. Are not a grifter, but

14:39

it's nuance So ah, I agree with you

14:41

that there is a ceiling and they accept

14:43

it. And. Maybe that's why some like

14:45

Candace or wins or some of the other folks

14:48

out the maybe the like. You know what? I

14:50

don't want to run for office, there's too much

14:52

money and this grist to be in the quote

14:54

unquote activists commentator. We're

14:58

going to take a short bring. We come

15:01

back More on the downward spiral. A Black

15:03

Republicans This is a word with Jason Johnson's

15:05

native. Girls

15:09

real time to this whole as

15:11

a New Year's time to reinvent myself.

15:13

Class is not designed for twenty

15:15

twenties. allows you to find someone who

15:18

loves you for you. You. Need

15:21

to read his daughter. thousand or

15:23

less only Santa Maria della Serra

15:25

manageable size. I am to be

15:27

ready for dating so. Yeah my

15:30

advice is to downloads on ball and

15:32

signs that was embrace a new the

15:34

way you are right now does. The

15:39

history of Hiv and Aids is

15:41

the history of people who were

15:43

told to stay out of sight

15:45

and who receives see men but

15:47

also injection drug users. him in

15:49

and yes children and contracted the

15:51

virus join us for the series.

15:53

Like the plague in the show

15:55

how much pain could have been

15:57

avoided and be paid attention sir?

16:00

And lessons foot have. learn from

16:02

History Channels and W N Y

16:04

C Studios. This a where you

16:06

get podcasts, Ulysses,

16:12

A word with Jason Jobs and today

16:14

we're talking about the State. A Black

16:16

Republicans with journalist and author clique came.

16:19

His new book is titled The Grit

16:21

The Downward Spiral. A Black Republicans from

16:23

the party of Lincoln to the cult

16:25

of Trump. So. The

16:27

book isn't just about sort of

16:30

the contemporary republican party take a

16:32

deep dive into their story. you

16:34

know, sort of black republicans, You

16:36

know? Who are some

16:38

of the folks? Just gimme one or two

16:40

the people that you profiles that. Most.

16:43

People haven't heard of. One. Name

16:45

that I. Am. Excited for

16:47

folks to learn more about is

16:49

Arthur Fletcher. Arthur. Fletcher

16:52

a black republican. He.

16:54

Is the architect. Of guess

16:56

what? Affirmative action. He

16:59

built affirmative action. This.

17:01

Thing that Republicans are so against. And.

17:04

Are so outraged over. Arthur.

17:06

Fled surf. Bill. Affirmative Action

17:08

It began as a Philadelphia Plan

17:10

for are equal treatment for for

17:12

contracts and construction work in Philadelphia.

17:15

Affirmative action is strengthened. Under.

17:18

Richard Nixon. This.

17:20

Guy. Is iconic and

17:22

he has faced a racer. In

17:25

the republican party. Because.

17:28

He was somebody who believed in

17:30

a social program helping black people.

17:33

And see himself. He

17:36

is somebody who advocate of for Supreme

17:38

Court Justice Clarence Thomas. After she sees

17:40

Clarence Thomas voting against affirmative action, he

17:42

says Clarence Thomas is trying to lean

17:44

over and think white. So

17:46

he had the. The. Courage and

17:48

the audacity to call out the racism

17:50

in his own party even with them

17:53

Black Republican so that's the name, but

17:55

I'm looking forward to have to folks

17:57

knowing about at Crm Howard. Who.

18:00

was a black Republican and

18:02

he was an abortion doctor. He believed that

18:04

abortion was a civil rights issue and

18:07

he is a race in the Republican party. Why

18:10

don't y'all ever mention him? So

18:12

you don't wanna mention TRM Howard, you

18:14

don't wanna mention Arthur Fletcher. My

18:17

man George Lee, George W. Lee, he

18:21

was a big face

18:23

in black Republicanism in the 1950s. By

18:26

1964, the RNC said, you are not welcomed, this

18:32

is a white man's party and they kicked

18:34

him out of the party. There are

18:36

so many figures outside of the great

18:38

Jackie Robinson who said Richard Nixon will

18:41

be deaf to black folks. There

18:44

are some great folks there where they

18:46

are literally never mentioned, they

18:49

are raced. Why? Because

18:51

they weren't grifters, because they

18:53

weren't hustlers, because they weren't

18:55

con artists. These folks don't even know the history

18:57

of their own party. You

19:00

know, when I was reading through and I did

19:02

a particular focus on

19:04

sort of the later years where I think the

19:06

change really happens. One

19:08

person that you wrote about and this really fascinated

19:10

me was Mia Love. She served two terms as

19:12

a member of Congress from

19:15

Utah. And one thing that

19:17

always struck me about her is that for

19:19

all of her cash money talking about black

19:21

Democrats and the congressional black caucus and

19:25

she was a popular mayor, she

19:27

lost the first time that she ran. And

19:29

she lost, and this is so important for

19:31

people to understand about how white voters will

19:33

even respond sometimes to black Republicans, she lost

19:36

in a district in 2012 that

19:38

Romney carried 86%. Okay,

19:41

so that means that all those neighbors that were

19:43

smiling at you and saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, Mia,

19:45

I'll vote for you. Obviously, when you next saw

19:48

them at the grocery store, they were kind of

19:50

looking the other way. But I

19:52

think Mia Love, if you compare

19:54

her to Ben Carson, you

19:56

compare her to Herman Cain, you

19:59

compare her to... To. That. sort

20:01

of middle. Era. Preach

20:03

Trump people who were. They

20:06

weren't quite. I wouldn't quite call

20:08

those people grifters, right, but I

20:10

do think they had turned. Conservative

20:13

policy into almost a parody. To

20:15

talk a little bit about that

20:17

you're talkative without me. A loves

20:19

career for Arc: Herman Cain, Ben

20:21

Carson. So. There are some watershed

20:23

moment in the Grip and his wife's why call

20:26

the downward spiral. Because not all

20:28

black republicans are like. There. Was

20:30

a journey. There is a trajectory

20:32

and I believe that many of

20:34

them contributed. Many. Of them thought

20:36

they could fight back against it and some

20:38

of them some of them thought I'll be

20:41

the great hope to say the Republican party

20:43

from the clutches of white supremacy. I'm with

20:45

Mia Love. What? They.

20:47

Began to realize is a way to

20:50

be successful and black and the G

20:52

O P. There. Was another

20:54

ingredient that Clarence Thomas wasn't doing? You.

20:57

Have to attack President Barack Obama.

20:59

Mia Love gives a speech. At.

21:02

The To South Two Thousand and Twelve

21:04

Rnc Convention. And. See goes

21:06

off on President Barack Obama. Version

21:09

of America if is divided

21:12

one off. Against each

21:14

other based on income level, gender

21:16

and social status. policy. To fail

21:19

that we're not said are often.

21:21

We were four years ago and

21:23

know rhetoric or Hollywood campaign. Insane.

21:30

The crowd. Is Tearing. She.

21:32

Gives the speech, The. Next

21:34

day. See. As the number

21:36

one trending search on google. For

21:39

fun! Raising is skyrocketing. She.

21:42

Gave the great audition. So.

21:45

Is see a grifter in the way of

21:47

of the the cult of Trump that we

21:49

have today. know but see contributed

21:52

to it i think she was drifting

21:54

in an hour away where she understood

21:56

i have to have a big splash

21:58

it it it is a on here,

22:01

and they will pick me because

22:03

I am the black person blaming

22:05

Obama for division in our country.

22:07

And then after that, she is

22:10

supported by this conservative

22:12

white GOP movement that has billions

22:14

of dollars to make her a

22:17

star. But then she gets her wake-up

22:19

call. When she loses

22:21

reelection, well, suddenly, Jason, this is

22:23

somebody who said, I've never experienced racism

22:26

in Utah. Well, hot damn,

22:28

she's crying racism. Now

22:30

it's suddenly racial. And it's funny because a

22:32

lot of black Republicans, they tell people, tell

22:34

black folks, stop focusing on race, stop focusing

22:37

on race. Condoleezza Rice will say this, you

22:39

focus too much on race. But

22:42

then when they're feeling racism,

22:44

now it's all about race. There is

22:46

a weird obsession that some,

22:48

not all, black Republicans have with

22:51

race, yet pathologizing

22:54

black folks for calling out racism in

22:57

the GOP. So Mia Love

22:59

is one of those folks where she had her

23:01

wake-up call. You think about Will Hurd. At

23:04

one point, he was the only black Republican

23:07

in the House of Representatives. He was from

23:09

Texas. And he's

23:13

someone that I don't think was a grifter. But

23:16

he leaves, he resigns because

23:18

he realizes there's no place this can

23:20

go, right? I

23:22

interviewed former RNC chair Michael Steele in the

23:24

book, and he told me, he

23:26

said that there were folks

23:28

in the GOP giving him

23:30

talking points and wanting him

23:33

to spread the birther movement lie. And

23:36

he refused. And he said, this

23:39

is the beginning of the end, when I'm not

23:41

willing to attack President Barack Obama.

23:43

And Michael Steele even told me that there

23:45

was no place for black folks in the

23:48

Republican Party. So yeah, you

23:50

see this emergence. And

23:52

it is Obama. It is a reaction

23:54

to, we have to showcase some kind

23:56

of alleged diversity. It is tokenism.

23:59

And will you be the token. And if you will,

24:02

we got a taste of a check for you, a touch

24:04

of power for you, as long as you obey the rules.

24:07

There was a piece, uh, you know, when I was

24:09

reading your book, it made me go back and look

24:11

at some of the writing that I did, um, heading

24:14

into 2016 election. And the

24:16

piece I had written about Reince Priebus, who

24:18

had been the RNC chair for years. He

24:21

did this huge autopsy after 2012. And he

24:23

said to Republicans, you guys have to do

24:25

better. And he put together a staff of

24:27

people. I remember Rolando Watson. I used to

24:29

be very cool. We talked on a regular

24:32

basis, put together a staff of young black

24:34

Republicans who, at least

24:36

as a staff, seemed reasonably committed

24:38

to diversifying the party. They showed up

24:41

in places that Republicans hadn't showed up

24:43

before, right? They were showing up at,

24:45

at essence best, right? They were doing

24:47

the real thing. But many of these

24:49

people left after

24:51

Trump became the nominee and they were

24:53

replaced with people like Ashley Bell and

24:55

replaced with people like Omarosa. Talk

24:58

a little bit about those

25:00

conversations, that, that sort of last era

25:02

of black administrators who were in the Republican

25:05

party, who were really trying to expand the

25:07

party. And these people were conservative and

25:09

how they were replaced or how they left because

25:12

Trump came and became the nominee in 2016. This

25:15

is really a great moment that I really

25:17

break down in the book. And it's fascinating

25:20

because I believe that

25:22

Michael Steele did some really great work. And I

25:24

believe that he was trying to reach out to

25:26

black voters. Michael Steele never

25:28

said, get off the plantation. He never said,

25:31

get off welfare. He didn't say, he didn't

25:33

say all the ridiculous tropes. And I believe

25:35

that's part of the reason why it was

25:37

kicked out. Ryan's previous gets in, really

25:39

tries to continue Michael Steele's work. So we have

25:41

to honor that, that that work really began with

25:44

Michael Steele. And you are right. There are some

25:46

black Republicans in the party at that time really

25:49

doing a different kind of outreach.

25:51

And I can't say because it was off the

25:53

record. But one of the things they were trying

25:55

to do, Jason is yes,

25:57

they're reaching out to black communities and They're

26:00

trying to point out here are some policies

26:03

that might help, but they were also trying

26:05

to convince black voters that

26:07

the Republican Party does not have a racism issue.

26:11

I quote somebody in the book where she said,

26:15

I've never seen racism in the Republican Party.

26:17

So they're doing all this convincing. Some other

26:19

folks you mentioned too, you said their names,

26:21

all this convincing, hey, hey, hey,

26:24

this party is not what you think it is. And

26:26

then Trump comes along. And

26:28

if you may have had a couple of black voters, then

26:31

he proved exactly what we've all

26:33

been saying. Because

26:36

if there wasn't a racism issue in the GOP,

26:38

Trump wouldn't have won. And Sir Michael Singleton

26:40

told me again, he worked

26:43

under HUD briefly with

26:45

Ben Carson under Trump. He

26:47

said that after that, he

26:49

said they flushed out, I'm paraphrasing here,

26:52

if there was any more black Republicans

26:54

left that had any kind of moral

26:56

higher ground, they flushed them all

26:58

out. That

27:00

Trumpism just ruined it. Then you have

27:02

the Amorossa's, you have the

27:05

Pastor Darrell Scott's that

27:07

you have, he said it just, it

27:09

ruined it for us. Here we are trying to

27:11

convince people we have a space for you. And

27:14

then in a couple of years, what

27:17

we all see is obvious. This party has an

27:19

issue with the Southern Strategy 2.0 tactics

27:22

with Trumpism. And this party feeds

27:24

off of white supremacy. What

27:27

was it like for lower level

27:29

Republicans when this transition happened? What

27:31

was it like for the

27:34

black staffer? What was it like for

27:36

the black state senator in Ohio, in

27:38

Arizona, who was like, Oh my gosh,

27:40

okay, summer of 2016, this just turned

27:42

left. Did those people self deport to

27:44

use the Mitt Romney term? Did they

27:46

say, look, I get out of here

27:48

on my own? Were they beaten in

27:50

primaries? How did the removal of black

27:52

Republicans happen in favor of the grifters?

27:55

In my research, there really weren't a lot of

27:57

them in power, in significant

27:59

power. There really weren't a lot

28:01

of them in major legislative roles. So

28:04

they were staffers. And so

28:06

they have to make the decision, are

28:08

you going to be a part of this blood oath or not?

28:11

And the majority of them decided not to. But

28:14

I got to also say this, this is so important.

28:17

And I mean this with all due respect to Michael

28:19

Steele, who was so kind in the book and so

28:21

gracious, but I told him this as well too. And I

28:23

mean, with all due respect to Colin Powell. The

28:27

issue of violent, disgusting, horrific

28:30

racism in the GOP has

28:33

been around long before Trump.

28:35

Ronald Reagan was

28:37

despicable. He had one black

28:39

person, of course it was a HUD

28:42

secretary, Samuel Pierce Riley. That

28:44

was the one person that stayed for his

28:46

administration the entire two terms who had tons

28:48

of indictments and then accusations of

28:51

mishandling money. Ronald Reagan waged war

28:53

on black people. Ronald

28:55

Reagan tried to veto the 1987 Civil

28:58

Rights Restoration Act. President

29:02

Bush did veto the 1990 Civil

29:05

Rights Act. His son, his

29:07

son's DOJ in 2002, I

29:10

believe, filed a voting rights

29:12

lawsuit against a black man in

29:14

Mississippi named Ike Brown. The first

29:16

time in history of voting rights

29:18

lawsuit was filed against a black

29:20

man. So it's really important

29:23

to point out that one has to

29:25

wonder why did you think you were

29:27

the great savior? They already

29:29

showed us who they are. Why didn't you

29:31

believe them? And is

29:34

there something in your story that you're

29:36

just simply leaving out? Honestly

29:39

and truly, the GOP has

29:41

never really been a friend to

29:44

black people except for when it was convenient

29:46

to them to win a civil war or

29:49

for tokenism. This is a

29:51

long story and it gets worse as it goes along,

29:54

but one has to

29:56

wonder at a certain point what

29:59

kind of work did you do? Did it,

30:01

was it worth it? And you had

30:04

to be aware of their violent white

30:06

supremacy for a long time. Maybe you

30:08

thought you could change it, or maybe you

30:10

thought you can get a piece of the pie. We're

30:13

going to take a short break and

30:15

we come back more about the past

30:17

and future of black Republicans with journalist

30:20

Clay Kane. This is The Word with

30:22

Jason Johnson. Stay tuned. Hey,

30:26

this is Mary Harris, host of Slate's

30:28

daily news podcast, What Next? Slate's

30:30

mission has always been to cut through

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plus. Thank

31:48

you. Clay

32:00

Cain. So one of the things Clay, and you

32:02

and I have talked about this before, one person

32:04

who is the focus of a tremendous amount of

32:06

your ire is Tim

32:08

Scott, Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina. And I

32:11

find him to be a particularly

32:13

fascinating sort of fulcrum for

32:16

your book and the grift because he

32:18

straddles two eras, right? He's sort

32:21

of part of the post Obama

32:23

black Republicans who are like, I'm

32:25

here so that white people have

32:27

this cudgel against this black president.

32:30

But then he's also made this just

32:32

absolute heel turn from just

32:34

conservatism to just lapdog for Trump.

32:36

Talk a little bit about where Tim

32:38

Scott falls and the grifting compendium. And

32:41

in particular, some of the quotes that

32:43

you got about him from people who

32:45

worked with him in South Carolina and

32:48

once he went to Congress. You

32:50

know, this goes back to what you were

32:53

saying earlier is what do they get out

32:55

of it. And South

32:57

Carolina Senator Tim Scott is somebody

32:59

who has legislative power.

33:01

South Carolina has a

33:03

large black population. And

33:06

this is somebody every step of the way, who is

33:09

voted against black people. And

33:11

his grift is so fascinating

33:13

because similar to Condoleezza

33:15

Rice, but she wasn't elected official. He

33:17

often calls on his black southern roots.

33:20

He often lets you know that

33:22

I know racism because I

33:24

went from cotton to Congress. I

33:27

know it. How dare you tell me because I

33:30

managed to put managed to pull myself up

33:32

by my bootstraps like Booker T. Washington. And

33:35

if you can't do it, well, you're

33:37

just lazy and shiftless. He fits

33:39

all of the tropes, but he

33:41

has serious, serious power. He

33:44

has power. And it

33:48

is a example. You're

33:51

right. In the beginning, he seemed to

33:53

have some redeeming qualities, but somebody who

33:55

I interviewed in the book, Rep Gileard

33:57

in South Carolina who worked with him.

34:00

according to him, his words, he

34:02

said there was a protest

34:04

about voting rights in South Carolina and all the

34:07

black folks walk out of the room and even

34:09

some of the white folks and

34:12

with voter suppression laws in South

34:14

Carolina, Tim Scott didn't walk out.

34:16

And allegedly, according to Rep. Gileard,

34:18

he said that Tim Scott told

34:20

him, I'm in this for the money.

34:22

I think some Democrats are in it for the money as well

34:24

too. Let me just be clear. So I could read a whole

34:26

book on Democrats, but anyway. But with

34:30

that money comes denying

34:34

there is systemic racism, denying

34:37

that voter suppression is

34:39

an issue. And

34:41

it comes with upholding

34:44

white supremacy politics. I

34:46

think Senator Tim Scott is very dangerous and

34:49

should not be ignored. He is

34:51

somebody that makes GOP donors very

34:54

proud. The GOP, they only select

34:56

black folks in reaction to. So

34:59

they select Clarence

35:02

Thomas, Supreme Court, just because

35:04

of Thurgood Marshall, Justice Thurgood Marshall. I

35:07

love Michael Steele. I think he deserved to be

35:09

the RNC chair, but he was obviously selected because

35:12

President Barack Obama wins. He should have been selected

35:14

years ago to be the RNC chair. I could

35:16

go on and on. But they

35:18

have that Vice President Kamala Harris there. They

35:21

want, I truly believe they want black

35:23

tokenism as the VP slot, whoever the

35:26

nominee is. And I think it's a

35:28

clear shot. It might be a Tim

35:30

Scott, a Byron Donalds, Florida Rep,

35:33

or Ben Carson. So Tim Scott's

35:35

grift is really fascinating, really dangerous,

35:37

and it has a legislative impact

35:40

with no accountability. Tim

35:42

Scott, I think, above

35:45

and beyond his occasionally crazy statements

35:47

that welfare did more damage to

35:49

black people than slavery and his

35:51

claims that he didn't see any

35:53

racism, et cetera, et cetera. I

35:56

think he's also an example of what we talked

35:58

about in The Last Video. About the

36:00

glass ceiling of the black ceiling

36:03

for these candidates. Because arguably sure

36:05

you are this historic African American

36:07

senator from South Carolina, you're very

36:09

well known arm and if he

36:12

decides that gonna run for president

36:14

and still the with the Republican

36:16

party abandon him. Talk a little

36:19

bit about this sort of abandonment

36:21

Issues that some these republicans have.

36:23

The Arthur Davis' The Tim Scott

36:26

ah the Daniel Cameron's the Media

36:28

Loves You have so many. Who

36:30

sacrificed so much to get

36:32

smashed in the face? Is.

36:35

It something that intimidates other republicans. Does it

36:37

make other black republican say hey album a

36:39

sign up for because you know? Ah, even

36:41

if I sue for the moon and I

36:43

miss I'm a part of the stars. How

36:45

does that look to other people. When.

36:48

They see the kind of sacrifices we saw from Tim Scott.

36:51

I would push back a bit. Doctor

36:53

Jason Johnson on. A sacrifice.

36:57

A. I don't think it was a sacrifice for

36:59

Tim Scott since gotta set for life. Tim.

37:01

Scott obey the rules. I don't think

37:03

that it's a sacrifice. I think it's

37:06

about proximity to power. Some folks have

37:08

lost their proximity to power, right? Some

37:10

folks of definitely lost and they might

37:12

never get it back. But I'm I

37:14

don't think they are these sacrificial lambs.

37:16

I'm at a think. If we frame

37:18

it as a sacrifice, it's almost like

37:20

they are victims. So at that the

37:22

second half of the title is the

37:24

colts of Trump. Now while I do

37:26

believe Trump as him as a cold

37:29

what they can make it clear in

37:31

the book. Because actually interview people

37:33

who survived the horrific Jim Jones

37:35

Massacre nineteen Seventy Eight that. Members.

37:38

Of a Colts. They. Are often

37:40

victims, right? But these folks

37:42

are not victims. There. In

37:45

a colts. But. They are not in

37:47

a murder suicide. Okay, They. Are

37:49

they are. They have joined the coke. They found

37:51

a co leader. And they

37:53

are excited to be a part of it.

37:55

They they found their people, wanna

37:58

play this sounds from the annual Cameron

38:00

speaking at the 2020 Republican National Convention. And

38:02

on the other side, I want to talk

38:04

a little bit about where Trump's

38:06

role is in all of this. We

38:08

are defenders of life and of individual

38:10

liberty, and we carry the

38:12

mantle of Eisenhower and of Reagan to be

38:14

a force for good in this world. And

38:17

one that must always be reckoned with.

38:21

That's my Republican party, the party of

38:23

Lincoln that believes America

38:25

is an indispensable nation and

38:28

evergreen tree standing tall

38:30

in a turbulent world. And

38:33

that's why I am voting for Donald Trump

38:36

for president. Thank you. And

38:38

God bless. Trump

38:42

has elicited this sort of

38:44

strange loyalty. What is it

38:47

about Trump that

38:49

brought these, these grifters

38:52

out? Because I don't

38:54

think that I think we

38:56

would have faced even, you know, reading

38:59

your book, I think we would have continued in

39:01

an era of, of

39:04

post Obama, black Republicans

39:07

for a while. If you didn't have this

39:09

guy come out and all, but say, look,

39:11

black people, you

39:13

can be just as cynical about

39:16

the system as me, but you can get

39:18

paid. I mean, I think that's why Trump

39:20

was always popular with rappers because it was

39:22

like, he's the guy saying F the system.

39:25

So talk about Trump's role in rising up

39:27

this new generation of grifters. These people don't

39:29

seem to be successful electorally, but

39:31

there is a grif with how, what's Trump's role

39:34

in that? Well, one thing that

39:36

I always say is that Trump

39:38

is the hate that Republicans created.

39:41

This is decades and decades in the

39:43

making. It is not a

39:45

shocker. The GOP would elect someone like

39:48

Trump. Trump could Democrats are not perfect,

39:50

but Trump could never. Get elected as

39:53

a Democrat. That's just,

39:55

it just, it just would not happen. We tear

39:57

each other apart. We cannibalize each other. We'll throw.

40:00

you out fat, quick and a hot minute and

40:02

demand that you resign. With

40:05

Trumpism, the circus

40:08

attracts clowns and the GOP has been a

40:10

circus for a long time. And

40:13

one might say the monster may have ate itself,

40:16

but this is what they've

40:19

cultivated. This is what they have

40:21

created. This is what their base

40:23

likes. And as horrible and

40:25

as vapid as I think Trump is,

40:27

I do think Trump did his homework

40:30

when it came to or someone told

40:32

him, when it came to

40:34

Barry Goldwater, the Arizona senator, one of

40:36

the architects of

40:38

the Southern Strategy, Richard Nixon,

40:40

that how can we rely on white

40:42

fears to make sure that

40:44

we maintain that white vote. And

40:47

so using fear tactics, using

40:49

otherism, he has been

40:51

able to show exactly who the GOP

40:53

is, who they've been for a very

40:56

long time. So when you have a

40:58

clown like him, the clown comes to

41:00

the surface, the pus comes to

41:02

the surface, the infection comes to the surface,

41:05

it creates other infections, it

41:07

creates other foolishness. And then you're suddenly

41:09

surprised and mortified that how did it

41:11

get this bad? What is sad about

41:13

all of this is that we

41:16

really do need two

41:18

functioning parties. And the

41:21

GOP, if

41:23

they actually created policies that

41:27

helped black communities, if they

41:29

actually had a healthcare plan,

41:32

if they actually had a gun

41:34

legislation plan, if they actually believed

41:36

in justice reform, if they

41:38

actually believed in helping kids who need a

41:40

free school lunch, if they actually

41:42

worked on policies, and maybe Michael Steele

41:45

was that last road not taken, they

41:48

could have an impact. Because you know this,

41:50

we as black voters, we're not wedded to

41:52

Democrats, we either vote Democrat or don't

41:54

vote at all. And the largest voting block is

41:56

the non voter. But What they do

41:58

instead is... His, they pathologize

42:01

us for not voting for their

42:03

white supremacy And them they lift

42:05

up the buffoonery, the clowns on

42:07

steroids that we have today. It

42:10

goes right down to the heart

42:12

of Trump is the hate they

42:14

created. And. It brings a

42:17

lot more gremlins after them. Clay.

42:20

Let's say. This book

42:22

is being handed out to to non

42:24

voters in Central Michigan. It's be handed

42:26

out to a bunch of twenty two

42:28

to thirty two year olds in Texas

42:31

who are like i don't think this

42:33

mouse me one way or another For

42:35

somebody who is that non voting block

42:37

of black people. What's. The

42:39

one saying you want them.

42:42

To get out of this book if they read. It. If

42:45

you don't do politics, politics will do

42:47

you. The. Last chapter

42:49

of the book I have a what's next chapter.

42:52

And. I lay out some solutions now

42:54

that I've expose the grist. What is there

42:56

to do next? There's the staff that I

42:58

haven't. The book that an eighteen sixty eight.

43:01

Eighty Percent Eighty. Eight.

43:04

Zero and eighteen Sixty eight of Olazabal

43:06

black voters. Sadly not black women they

43:08

couldn't for women could have. Oh back

43:10

then. Were. Registered to vote. We.

43:13

Were able to reinvent. And.

43:15

Take over the south. Reinvent.

43:18

Completely take over from just from

43:21

from from da's to tax collectors

43:23

to said to lieutenant governor and

43:25

so on. and. They. Saw

43:27

this significant power and part of the rings

43:29

my reconstructed and because they saw our. Electoral.

43:33

Power. but we had.

43:35

Less. Power and massive voter suppression.

43:37

Black men being slain at the

43:40

polls. Like voter suppression you couldn't

43:42

even imagine. We have less power

43:44

than. And. We used our

43:46

power more. We. Have

43:48

more power now. And

43:50

we use our power less. I want

43:53

us to fully capitalize on our power.

43:56

Because. The other side. They.

43:58

are ready They have a

44:00

long game. I believe their ultimate goal is

44:03

to overturn that 1964 Civil Rights Act. And

44:07

Jason, I don't want us

44:09

to get to a point when

44:11

we are at some neo-1864. I'm sorry, 1868. And

44:18

we finally get the urgency. I don't want us

44:20

to get that desperate. And

44:23

listen, I'm all about vote out

44:25

these old guard Democrats. Vote

44:28

them out. Let's take over the

44:30

Democratic Party the way the Tea

44:32

Party took over the GOP, the

44:34

way the Magma cult took over the GOP. Let's

44:37

take it over. Let's put in more people that

44:40

believe in reparations, that has to go through

44:42

Congress, that believes in ending the

44:44

filibuster, that has to go through Congress, that

44:46

believes expanding the Supreme Court, has to go through

44:48

Congress. You know, we got to have the long

44:51

game. If we don't do politics,

44:53

it's going to do us. Another reason why I

44:55

wrote this book is because I do

44:58

love this country. And as Baldwin said, I

45:00

love it enough to critique it. And

45:03

I'm not going nowhere. I don't want to see

45:05

us go backwards. And anybody

45:07

who is contributing to regressing

45:10

must be called out. I mean, they are

45:12

telling us what they're going to do. They're

45:14

telling us I will be a dictator. They're

45:17

banning books. All the signs are

45:19

there. I lay this out in the book that

45:22

the end of Reconstruction, we could be at the end

45:24

of whatever era they will call this. So

45:26

that's what I would say. I hope

45:29

the book inspires folks to be involved. If

45:32

you are a, quote, unquote, real

45:34

conservative, although I don't know what you're trying to

45:36

conserve, but if you are, do you

45:38

want hustlers and con artists in your party? Is

45:41

that what you want? Do you want the

45:44

Omarosa, Minister Omarosa? Do you want the

45:46

Herschel Walkers? Because if you do

45:48

want that, you're part of the problem. So I hope

45:50

that folks can see it that way. The book is

45:53

part history, part cultural analysis.

45:56

It's passion. It's fire. It's accessible.

46:00

And I hope that it has some kind of impact in

46:02

2024. Clay

46:06

Kane is a journalist and his new book

46:08

is The Grit. The downward spiral of black

46:10

Republicans from the party of Lincoln to the

46:12

cult of Trump. Clay, anytime, I always love

46:14

talking to you, man. Thanks for coming on

46:17

The Word. Thank you, appreciate you, man. And

46:20

that's a word for this week.

46:22

The show's email is a word

46:24

at slate.com. This episode

46:26

was produced by Christi Taiwo Mackinjula.

46:29

Ben Richmond is Slate's Senior Director

46:31

of Podcast Operations. Alicia Montgomery is

46:34

the Vice President of Slate Audio.

46:36

Our theme music was produced by Don Will.

46:39

I'm Jason Johnson. Tune in next week

46:41

for Word.