0:04

This. Is a word apart as from

0:06

sleep. I'm your Host Jason Johnson. True

0:08

Crime is a hot topic for movies,

0:10

television, and yes, podcasts. and at the

0:13

center of many of these stories is

0:15

a missing woman and secrets to take

0:17

the storyteller to dark places. But what

0:19

happens when those dark places for actually

0:21

very close to home. I did

0:23

not know my car other side of

0:26

the family and I always knew there

0:28

was probably and why I didn't know

0:30

about myself through that other side. The

0:33

story behind the podcast? she has

0:35

a name coming up. Want to

0:37

work with me? Jason Johnson Stay with

0:39

us. Can. Use of the stage

0:41

a little bit so people understand what happened. In

0:44

Nineteen Sixty Nine, fourteen black student

0:46

athletes were kicked off their universities

0:49

american football team. You're planning a

0:51

show of support against racism. We

0:53

were really protests that treatment

0:55

on feel. Amazing sports stories

0:57

from the Bbc World Service tells

1:00

their story. Became brothers that

1:02

day when you did it to we

1:04

made a change sliding what we deserve.

1:06

Search for amazing sports stories wherever you

1:09

get your Bbc. Podcasts, Welcome

1:25

to Word A Park! As about race

1:28

and politics and everything else, I'm your

1:30

host, Jason Johnson. The challenge of finding

1:32

a missing person is something that's still

1:34

complicated by race. The. Police and

1:37

the media may be a lot slower

1:39

to search and to mobilize community attention

1:41

for African Americans. Them. For white folks.

1:43

And. That's what happens now. If.

1:46

You step back in time to the eighties

1:48

before Hash tags and go find Me is

1:50

and while many city struggled in the grip

1:52

of a crack epidemic. That. Made

1:54

searching for missing people almost impossible. That's.

1:57

The backdrop behind the podcast? she

1:59

hasn't. How Your Mosley

2:01

A veteran journalist and co host of

2:03

Amp Yours Fresh Air. Here's a story

2:05

of a missing woman who left Detroit

2:07

apartment in Nineteen Eighty Seven. And.

2:10

Never came back. But. We're complicates

2:12

the podcast and gives at it's heart

2:14

is that the missing woman was trying

2:16

a mostly sister. A sister mostly never

2:19

knew existed. Until she learned

2:21

of the disappearance years later. She.

2:23

Has A Name is both a quintessential

2:25

black family story. And. A compelling

2:27

portrait of a city and an era

2:29

in urban America. Can. You Mosley

2:31

joins us now Tanya. Thanks. So

2:34

much for coming out of work. Thank. You for

2:36

having me Jason! This. Show is

2:38

is classified as true crime. But.

2:41

It cannot break the mold on a number

2:43

of levels. What was it so important to

2:45

you to center the story of your sister

2:47

in need of a life and not just

2:49

her disappearance in her death. A

2:52

couple of reasons, and you're right

2:54

to say that it's interesting that

2:56

isn't that true crime John Rabbit

2:58

It is a true crime mystery

3:00

that's I intentionally wanted to turn

3:03

on it's head or the idea

3:05

of what we think of true

3:07

crime in part because you know

3:09

everyone in my lies. Luz.

3:12

True. Crime and not in the sense

3:14

of likes podcast. But even before that

3:16

all of the shows that we grew

3:18

up watching the Dateline series on Law

3:21

and Order the Women in my life

3:23

to absolutely love those shows. and as

3:25

I was producing this podcast a sound

3:28

that people who are actually part of

3:30

the story also loved those shows. There

3:32

is one person that I talked to

3:35

in this podcast, my sister's. Sister

3:37

Salaries. Who is just obsessed

3:39

with to crime see? Watches all these

3:42

types of shows all the time. But

3:44

the thing that is not true is

3:46

our ability to see ourselves in this

3:48

genre and to see our stories told

3:50

and a complete way where you understand

3:53

that nuance and deaths as a person

3:55

who is potentially the victim, where the

3:57

perpetrator. And so I wanted to center

3:59

black women in this podcast and Away

4:01

that allows you to see them for

4:04

humanity. And also you know my sister

4:06

was someone who maybe on folks witten

4:08

consider to be the perfect victim and

4:10

we can get into what that means

4:12

by with that I wanted people to

4:15

understand what led to her decisions and

4:17

ultimately will lead to her disappearance and

4:19

Dad and I thought having this and

4:21

that true Crime designation was really important

4:23

breast to be able to see this

4:26

type of story and that designation. This

4:29

part as begins with you discovering that

4:31

you have a grown nephew, a sister

4:33

and that your sister was missing all

4:35

him on phone call. Or

4:37

to you know moment. I've just remember when

4:39

you ask the phone has a scattering a

4:41

d say hello, the fact that. Out

4:45

like a while Like your voice Who?

4:47

some about your voice that was so

4:49

familiar to me. Describe.

4:51

What that moment was like for you. I.

4:53

Would say surprise but also not surprised

4:56

because I did not know my father's

4:58

side of the families and I always

5:00

knew there was probably a lot I

5:02

didn't know about myself through that other

5:05

side. Also as I learn more and

5:07

more about my father, allergy is truly

5:09

a Rolling Stone so I have lots

5:12

of brothers and sisters that I don't

5:14

know about. I think what was devastating

5:16

for me as to learn that my

5:19

sister was. No longer here

5:21

and on. Than. I would

5:23

never get to know her. As. The

5:25

years have gone on. I've learned. So.

5:28

Many things. But I'll tell you that

5:30

I didn't know about her life up

5:32

until a few years ago, so I

5:34

knew I had a sister. I knew

5:36

I had a nephew. We forge to

5:39

relationship my nephew and I over the

5:41

last twenty years, but it wasn't until

5:43

Ah authorities were able to match the

5:45

Dna that I actually. Started to dig

5:47

deeper into her life and who was she

5:49

was before she. Died and that

5:51

is why we get into

5:53

through this podcast. Your.

5:56

Nephew Antonio. Brought

5:58

you into the story. Of

6:00

your sister. You. Know how would

6:02

you relationship over twenty years with him

6:04

develop and how did what he tell

6:07

you and didn't tell you. About.

6:09

Your sister effect that relationship. Antonio.

6:12

Is a special that. He.

6:15

Is someone who is always yearning,

6:17

always reaching, always searching. And in

6:19

addition to looking for me and

6:21

finding me, I also knew that

6:23

he was looking for other relatives.

6:25

So he reached out to other

6:27

family members as he discovered them

6:29

and Ford's relationships with them. And

6:31

it's always been in a way

6:33

that stuff so honest. He wanted

6:35

to be there for my kids

6:38

birthday parties, my wedding, my grandma's

6:40

barbecue in the backyard. We just

6:42

had loving Emilio like connections and

6:44

those deepened over times. Where we

6:46

learned about each other's aspirations and wants

6:48

and desires. But details about his mother

6:50

were far and few between. Like first

6:53

off, I I didn't ask a lot

6:55

as a sin, and part of that

6:57

was because I knew the pain of

6:59

her disappearance. Was. Something that he

7:02

had locked away. In a

7:04

way that kept him a little close to

7:06

going deep into her but he would little

7:08

things about her. I knew about her personality

7:10

and new which she liked. You know we

7:12

may be hang out and he might say

7:14

i yeah my mom always love to do

7:16

this or she always loved to do that

7:19

so that's how I knew. Her for

7:21

like twenty years. And then

7:23

when we were able to find

7:25

her remains through Dna. And.

7:28

We started to talk about telling her story.

7:30

I. Sat down with Antonio. Has any to

7:33

know everything. And as I started

7:35

to talk it through with him I did

7:37

tell he was really to hearted about. Many.

7:40

Things like what she did for a

7:42

living, where they lived, who she was

7:44

in relationships with. and so the unpacking

7:46

of that made me realize there was

7:48

so much more that I didn't know

7:51

about her. and there was a reason

7:53

why he was keeping that close to

7:55

his chest. I just I'm

7:57

Mike. I'm wondering why he didn't tell

7:59

me. These really. Important.

8:02

Things. That. I

8:04

think the I should have known. I.

8:06

Don't really matter in the scheme of things,

8:08

but they are just such. Bit. Omission Said

8:10

it almost feels like. Lies but

8:12

you didn't tell me. Since.

8:15

I've heard a lot of things are

8:17

have seen a lot of drinks way

8:19

but I don't you know. That

8:23

I've added. I don't know how the process

8:25

you don't have said in a do know

8:28

that was a crazy time. No.

8:30

One wants to lead was saying my mother was a

8:32

drug dealing. And. My mother then

8:34

turned into being an addict. Number.

8:37

Two, How do you even explain. Or

8:39

began to explain something that you're still

8:41

trying to figure out yourself. See.

8:44

Disappear when he was fourteen years old.

8:46

He had an idealized version of her.

8:48

He idolized her. And the

8:51

ways to keep his psyche whole throughout

8:53

the thirty plus years that she was

8:55

missing. Was. To have this

8:57

formed thought of her as like

9:00

an angel. And so I come

9:02

to understand it. But I will say in

9:04

the beginning when he was very close to

9:06

his chest when we were creating this podcasts

9:08

I didn't understand that I actually thought he

9:11

was to be close to assess because there

9:13

was some saying him around it. But I

9:15

realize it was him coming to grips himself

9:17

with his mother's choices and behaviors and also

9:19

grappling with what she said in sit and

9:22

do at that. Age when his

9:24

mother disappeared. We're

9:27

going to cut short range. We come

9:29

back. More about the podcast. she has

9:32

a name is the word with Jason

9:34

Jones had stated. The

9:36

next generation influential Black voices can

9:38

be found on Npr. His new

9:41

collection like stories like True Blood

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Stories by Truth is a celebration

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of blackness from Npr. Speech of

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of yours Blacks voices are just

9:50

been buried and new on of

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the black experience itself can be

9:54

black Story Black Shoes collection you

9:57

hear Source of Joy Zillions Empowerment

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increase. The world's shifting things had

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late beauty pop responses from Bobby's

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murder to the wire Michelle Obama

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to revelations, there's no limit to

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Truth. By perspective haven't always

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across impure thoughts as center Black

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listen out of like stories by

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your podcast app. You

11:31

listen to work with. Started to they were

11:34

talking about the podcast. she has a name.

11:36

With. Host Tanya mostly. Your.

11:39

Sister any to Wiley story is

11:41

really painful. Even. Years

11:43

before she disappeared. Dies. For those

11:45

who haven't heard the podcast yet,

11:48

Introduce us to her like we did. You

11:50

learn about her and her core. I mean,

11:52

you're You're picking up these bits and pieces

11:54

and research and can ask people. But. Who.

11:56

Was he. When. I learned about

11:58

the attributes of any that. When. I

12:00

learn about her personality, what she's light,

12:03

which she hoped for, which she dreamed

12:05

about. It all sounds like me. We.

12:07

Were so similar. but her life

12:09

trajectory was very different because as

12:11

several things that happen in her

12:14

life. She. Had Antonio when

12:16

she was fourteen years old. Her

12:18

mother died when she was seventeen

12:20

of cancer. And when

12:22

her mother died, her stepfather less

12:25

the family they went to the

12:27

funeral. All the kids came

12:29

home and eat. It was seventeen. She

12:31

had a three year old San Antonio

12:33

and she had two younger siblings. They

12:35

all went home and their father never

12:37

came back. Her stepfather never came back,

12:40

so she. Took. Care of the

12:42

household So she had to figure out how

12:44

to care for these kids. How to keep

12:46

that bills a slow. all of that stuff.

12:49

And. She got into drugs. drug dealers were

12:51

the ones who helped her. They

12:53

helped her pay rent, they helped her

12:55

buy food, and they taught her how

12:57

to sell drugs. She was a hustler,

13:00

And that's the part that reminds me of

13:02

myself because I think that we often think

13:05

of the term hustler negative times, but like

13:07

she was doing what she needed to do

13:09

to survive. But she also was bringing joy

13:11

to the house. Her siblings and Antonio talk

13:13

about how they never felt like they were

13:16

struggling because she seemed to have it all

13:18

together. and I think about when I was

13:20

seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old when she was

13:22

able to do was just remarkable. I also

13:24

see that she didn't have any one there

13:27

for her in the ways that I had.

13:29

I had a strong foundation. Through my mother

13:31

my mother's side of the family and

13:33

so as see delve deeper and deeper

13:35

into drugs she just fell into a

13:37

world that really, she should not have

13:39

been a part of that. There was

13:42

no. Other way for her.

13:44

Because. She didn't have other adults and

13:46

her lies. You. Know she

13:48

disappeared when she was twenty eight years

13:50

old, so that's really dug. It's before

13:53

she even had a chance to. Even

13:55

conceptualize finding her way out of this

13:57

world. I think her sister. How

14:00

is a great representation of like

14:02

what could have happened if she's

14:04

had not been murdered? L

14:07

was more like dahomey can and

14:09

even though he had no free

14:11

as issues out and in there

14:13

is no no I'm put on

14:15

her may serve their in a

14:17

dresser see we're all was our

14:19

dresser as much. As

14:21

soon as a dresser, Amnesty sobbed

14:24

every day. Her. Sister also fell

14:26

into drugs. also sold drugs but she was able

14:28

to get out of their life. She was able

14:30

to find treatment, she was able to have children

14:32

and have a family. When I look at all

14:34

of that, I think about all of the people

14:37

who didn't make it from that time frame. From

14:39

the eighties during the crack era. Who

14:41

got caught up? People who are

14:43

caught up to this day and

14:45

we vilify them. We think of

14:48

them as pariahs often. We also

14:50

think that they have some. Moral.

14:52

Character Flaw or failing. Especially

14:55

when they go into the depths of

14:57

drugs. I think that we are better

14:59

at understanding that. Drug. Use

15:01

is. Psychological.

15:04

And physical. But you know back in the

15:06

eighties you know we all bought into the

15:08

war on drugs like you should be punished

15:10

if you are involved in any way. And

15:12

so I thought it was very important to

15:14

tell the nuance story about someone like her

15:16

because she wouldn't be someone that induce would

15:18

cover. The. News didn't have a

15:20

her disappearance. She's not someone that we

15:23

would see a special line. We. Would

15:25

you say oh, she made all those choices and

15:27

they were bad choices. And cells in some way

15:29

was what we're saying when we say that is

15:31

that she deserved what was ultimately her face. Did.

15:34

You ever white? Go through your

15:36

life and hers and look at how

15:38

you deferred late like what were some

15:40

key moments in your life growing up.

15:43

And. How did those looking contrast Which he started

15:45

to find out about your sister's life? I

15:48

think the interesting thing about that and this is

15:50

a really good question as I was nine years

15:52

old when she disappeared and of course as you

15:55

know, I didn't find out about her until I

15:57

was an adult. But I think about. What?

15:59

Was. The in my life versus hers and

16:02

I think about. When I was

16:04

fourteen years old, people are

16:06

surprised. To hear this because of who I

16:08

am now and the woman that I was. Able.

16:11

To be com because of the

16:13

interventions in my life. But when

16:15

I was fourteen years old, I

16:17

was having sex. I was

16:19

smoking marijuana, I was skipping school. I

16:21

was doing all of those things and

16:23

there was a big intervention in my

16:25

life with my mother and with my

16:28

family and with teachers who would tell

16:30

my mom I I had a best

16:32

friend who is no longer with us

16:34

because she didn't make it. That.

16:36

My of the principle of our school and

16:38

on Our English teacher had an intervention with

16:41

my mom and said time he is really

16:43

smart. She keeps going in this direction and

16:45

she's going to end up with the baby.

16:47

She's not gonna make it. And

16:49

so my family as really instrumental

16:51

in that. And. I see through

16:53

a need a story that she didn't have that

16:55

with the death of her mother in the abandonment

16:57

of her stepfather. And you know

16:59

our father. That we share was in

17:01

my A. You know he was off doing

17:03

his own thing so I just see that

17:06

as the difference. She did not have people

17:08

in her lies who could steer her in

17:10

another direction. I remember

17:12

in people almost laughed this every time I

17:15

bring it up because I'm just not this

17:17

person anymore. I remember there was a brief

17:19

moment where I thought maybe I could sell

17:21

drugs to make money. I came from the

17:23

same environment that she came from. We were

17:26

poor, I thought we were middle class, but

17:28

we were really really poor and I know

17:30

if I wanted anything in life I would

17:32

have to work for did make it on

17:35

my own and so I briefly thought about

17:37

that too. So. I can't really

17:39

judge the decisions that she made because

17:41

I do understand them. To.

17:43

Get to know your sister Used to talk to a part

17:45

of the family you know very well. What? Was

17:47

that like in how did you get these

17:50

people to trust you. As. Opposed

17:52

to be like hey, that's family business. We

17:54

don't want that out the street. One.

17:56

Thing that I knew just from being. A

17:58

journalist and interviewing. College

18:00

specifically black people about things

18:02

that are deeply personal. When.

18:05

You come from a mainstream media organisation.

18:07

There's always a little bit as suspicious because

18:09

we just don't see ourselves like that in

18:11

nuance ways. So there was all a suspicion

18:14

likes would are you trying to do so.

18:16

There was some of that that I had

18:18

to work through just by persistence. but then

18:20

once I get people to talk I also

18:22

had to slow them down because the ways

18:25

we do see ourselves are often incomplete or

18:27

through sound bites of their tiny get everything

18:29

in all at once and it's like know

18:31

we have all the time in the world

18:33

for you to dig up the memories and

18:36

the thoughts you have. And tell me

18:38

how you're feeling, so that's at the

18:40

moment. They added almost a full year

18:42

to our production schedule because they're lot

18:44

of people that attaches within goes to

18:46

me, you know and I had to

18:48

like keep reaching out to them going

18:50

to Detroit and just showing up and

18:53

showing them that I wasn't in it

18:55

just for something really quick. but I

18:57

was invested in the story. And

18:59

then also Antonio played a huge role

19:01

in this because everyone who was there

19:04

during that time who knew my sister.

19:06

Course. They knew Antonio and they knew that he

19:08

was a child and he needed to find our

19:10

answers about his mother and so they were doing

19:13

it for him. Not sure why he wanted to

19:15

do it because I had a lot of people

19:17

saying like i don't know why Antonio needs to

19:19

tell the story but it seems like he needs

19:21

to do it and so if this is part

19:23

of his healing be want to help him do

19:25

it. We're

19:30

going to have Legal Weed comes

19:32

Lot more about B C has

19:34

a name Podcasts with hosts Tanya

19:36

Mosley this is a word with

19:38

Jason Jones and Status. Of

19:41

the state of people understand what happened. In

19:44

Nineteen Sixty Nine, fourteen black student

19:47

athletes were kicked off their universities

19:49

American football team, so planning a

19:51

show of support against racism. We

19:54

were really protest or treatment on.

19:57

Amazing sports stories from the Bbc

19:59

World Service. How a better. Story is

20:01

a brothers that day. When you do

20:03

that to be made a change fighting

20:05

for what we deserve. Search for a

20:07

main horse sorry wherever you got your

20:10

Bbc podcast. He

20:19

wasn't a word which he started today.

20:21

We're talking about B C has a

20:23

Name podcast with host Tiny Mosley. Several

20:25

episodes of the podcast are out in

20:27

the world now. What? Kind of

20:30

response. Have you heard from your family from

20:32

other people that you know what's reaction? That.

20:34

I. Was most afraid about the family. Him

20:37

at the I stay said yeah, I just

20:39

wanted them to feel like they were represented

20:41

correctly. They've been very happy with how the

20:43

story is coming together and also it's bigger

20:45

than they ever thought it would be because

20:48

they've never seen themselves in this kind of

20:50

format. The people that I talked to to

20:52

be able to hear it in it's totality.

20:54

It's like wow this is our story and

20:57

it's riveting And his complaints I think we

20:59

often think like why is our story important

21:01

why would people wanna know about our lives

21:03

even if it is something fantastical. That has

21:05

had the hands when I found from people who

21:08

are not my family is said they end up

21:10

telling me about their lives. And. That's when

21:12

I know that a story has hit people

21:14

when they send me a message and they're

21:16

like oh let me tell you about my

21:19

on our cousin or my mother and it's

21:21

not like exact. It's. Maybe about

21:23

family dysfunction or coming together

21:26

reunification? A morning death and

21:28

dying? A dealing with the

21:31

grief of loss. And

21:33

that's when I know that a story is

21:35

power thought. So I'm happy that this podcast

21:37

is a portal for people. To be self

21:40

reflect as it's been a chance for

21:42

me to deeply reflect. On.

21:45

Myself. You know he did to

21:47

be my age. You think you know everything about yourself

21:49

and I'm learning so many things about me that I

21:51

didn't know. Am I as

21:53

you sort of question about legacy? This.

21:55

Is how I view your

21:57

podcast I think of room.

22:00

In the seventies, the sort of. Very. Important

22:02

black story that is a disruptor

22:05

and this majority white space. I.

22:07

Think of so that O'brien's Black

22:09

in America. This. Black series

22:12

which was a huge disruptor in

22:14

this majority white space of twenty

22:16

four hour table and and seen

22:18

in a particular your podcast. You.

22:20

Know. Being. A host of fresh

22:22

air. To me, it's in the legacy

22:25

of roots as in the legacy of.

22:27

Black. In America of going into this

22:29

majority white space and saying book, there

22:31

is a space here for these kinds

22:34

of stories as well. What? Do

22:36

you think the legacy of your podcast will

22:38

be? Do you think it's the beginning of

22:40

a fundamental change? Or do you think it's

22:43

sort of part of a at to sort

22:45

of on a grander change and storytelling that

22:47

we're starting to hear. Ah, Across

22:49

the media landscape is more more Black people have

22:51

access to these stories and outlets to share. Better.

22:55

Be cleansed and. I. Will say that

22:57

may. Be years ago I

22:59

lead with like this. Mission.

23:02

To diversify Npr to bring voices

23:04

that were representative of our country

23:07

and a more holistic leg has

23:09

like three or so important to

23:11

this country and like I wanted.

23:13

To see that reflected on? Actually see

23:15

that as my role anymore. Like I'm

23:18

very purpose driven and telling these stories

23:20

because they are important to tell in

23:22

there for every one. And I'm doing.

23:24

It for us, but I also am

23:26

not doing it to try to make

23:29

Npr something. I'm doing it because I

23:31

feel like it's really important and whether.

23:33

I'm doing it with Npr. not

23:35

I'd doing it, but you know

23:37

when you started off asking me

23:39

that question and talking about Legacy.

23:42

I've been telling stories for a

23:44

long time and I has said

23:46

many, many times like story telling

23:48

him ceiling and yes, I believe

23:50

it. I really believe it. But

23:52

it wasn't until I started doing

23:54

this podcast and actually my previous

23:56

pike As Truth Be Told that

23:58

I actually saw it. And

24:00

I saw it through the listeners and

24:02

what they were sharing with us. I

24:05

saw with myself and the transformation within

24:07

myself. If I have a

24:09

moment, I just want to tell you a

24:11

story that ties into this parties. The

24:14

last season of my other podcast to

24:16

be told I did a psychedelic journey

24:18

I wanted to take a look at

24:20

how at this a new burgeoning science

24:23

that shows that psychedelics could be a

24:25

wonderful treatment to help seal racial trauma.

24:27

And so I went on my own

24:29

journey to figure out whether. It

24:32

was for me and what would come from me

24:34

going on a journey. Like this, a

24:36

therapeutic turning. And during that journey

24:38

like literally when I was high

24:40

on mushrooms I had an encounter

24:42

with my uncle Benny who die

24:44

by suicide in. The eighties. And.

24:48

He said to me during that. Journey.

24:51

You. Need to talk about mean. You.

24:54

Need to talk about me with your children. When.

24:57

You're in this type of ah state.

24:59

It's kind of like being in a

25:01

deep meditative state. Really, what it is

25:03

as a conversation with myself. It's me

25:05

coming to those thoughts and he is

25:07

just a shell of that's in my

25:10

mind and my imagination telling me that's

25:12

but what it was was actually true.

25:14

My uncle died of suicide and when

25:16

he died his name and his presence

25:18

died with it because the pain was

25:21

so much. the people never. Talked about

25:23

my uncle but he was deeply important

25:25

to me and who I am as

25:27

a person. If you want to understand

25:29

me, you need to understand. My relationship

25:31

with my uncle was foundational in so

25:33

many things. After that journey. I

25:35

came home and I started to talk about

25:37

my uncle to my kids and they were

25:39

really interested to know and it helps them

25:41

understand themselves. With. The neatest

25:43

story and she has a name. Antonio.

25:46

He never told anyone about

25:49

his mother. Except. For

25:51

me. He felt like

25:53

he trusted me in us after we

25:55

built a relationship. To tell me more

25:57

and more detail about his mother. Andrew

26:00

that I understood that he had not

26:02

share details with his own children, he

26:05

has five children, they never even heard

26:07

him say. Mother's name and yet.

26:09

There's not a moment that passes by that

26:11

he's not thinking about his mother. He's.

26:13

Thinking about her constantly. how can

26:15

they know and understand their father

26:17

if they don't know that about

26:19

their father? If they don't know

26:21

about the woman who directs his

26:23

stats every single day is behaviors,

26:25

the way he interacts with them,

26:27

the suffering in silence that Invisible

26:29

Eight, and them understanding and knowing

26:32

that story, knowing and need a

26:34

story helps them understand themselves and

26:36

so a break this cycle of

26:38

pain and trauma in silence that

26:40

we just continue to hold on

26:42

and pass on through. Generations And so

26:44

when I think about the legacy of

26:46

it's I know it's for the greater audience.

26:48

I know it's for all of us to

26:51

be reflective of ourselves, but that's what

26:53

I want people to take away and that's

26:55

what it's given for our family is

26:57

an opening for us to have these conversations.

26:59

Antonio now talking to his children about his

27:01

mother in ways that he never has

27:03

before. His eldest daughter said. I.

27:06

Finally understand my Dad Now. How

27:09

powerful is that? To. Net not

27:11

understand this man for all of her life

27:13

and finally understand the choices he made in

27:15

the silences that he kept. So that's what

27:17

I think that when I think that the

27:19

legacy of this, that's what. I'm holding on

27:21

to right now. Tanya

27:29

mostly is the host of B

27:31

C Has A Name podcasts available

27:33

wherever you listen to Podcasts is

27:35

also the cohosts of Npr. Touch

27:38

mostly. Thanks so much! I really

27:40

really enjoy this overseas Things you

27:42

Jason. That's a

27:45

word for this week. The shows

27:47

email is a word. athletes.com This

27:49

episode was produced by a on

27:52

Angel been Richmond he sleeps senior

27:54

director apart as operations resume again.

27:56

Where is he Vice President? Asleep

27:59

Audio. The music was produced

28:01

by Dawn Will I'm Jason Johnson

28:03

soon and next week for work.