0:00

So I need this to be a relatively short show

0:02

which means we're gonna go three plus hours Do you

0:04

ever start a show by saying anything other than that

0:06

Casey? It's always like where you always got somewhere else

0:08

to be I need this to be short show because

0:10

I need to go fight Crime in the neighborhood like

0:12

you're secretly Batman John

0:16

you have thoughts about your iPad Pro with

0:18

the m4 processor. Tell me more I've been

0:20

using it every day as I do with

0:23

my iPad Not too

0:25

much to note just a few things one

0:27

screen screens real good I

0:29

have seen some people Make

0:32

some complaints about the screen online that like

0:34

they think areas that are just

0:36

barely not black Look a

0:38

little speckly or dithery. They might have way better

0:41

vision than I do But

0:43

if you look real close to like an OLED

0:45

TV when you're when it's in a region of

0:47

the screen That is like really dark gray. You'll

0:49

see the same thing. I Can't

0:52

see whatever it is that they're seeing on the

0:54

screen with any of my corrective

0:56

lenses or uncorrected eyes So

0:58

it's nice to be almost 50 I guess The

1:01

brightness is not too bright which I

1:03

was glad about because it can go super duper bright

1:05

But when I'm in a dark bedroom, I can still

1:07

turn it down to be reasonable Loving

1:10

that OLED a lot of the shows I watch have the

1:12

you know The black bars letterbox top

1:14

and bottom and those just disappear into the room

1:16

I still also see some people who had they're

1:18

like, oh the blacks aren't really black on my

1:20

OLED That

1:22

will happen if the thing that is projecting the image

1:25

on the display doesn't specify black for those regions What

1:27

I told those people is make yourself a black image

1:29

that you know is a hundred percent black and just

1:31

fill the screen With that like in the photos app

1:33

or something It should be completely

1:36

black and mine is like if the screen

1:38

is entirely black on my iPad in the

1:40

dark bedroom It's indistinguishable from it

1:42

being off because guess what? They just don't send

1:44

any power in any of the pixels like they're

1:46

literally off if it doesn't look

1:48

like that to you It's because your video player is not

1:51

projecting black in those areas. It's projecting really dark gray, which

1:53

is a bummer, but it can happen Face

1:56

ID yes, it's the landscape camera and

1:58

the landscape face ID And

2:00

I have to say in the weird scrunched

2:02

up totally un-ergonautic position that I watch television

2:05

shows on my iPad in bed, Face ID on the

2:07

side could see my face better. Really?

2:10

That's surprising. It's not a condemnation

2:12

of the position of the thing.

2:15

They put it in the right place. It is better

2:17

where it is. No one should sit like I'm sitting.

2:19

I'm just saying it's a practical matter. The

2:22

Face ID on the side could see my face a little bit better.

2:25

Sometimes I have to make an adjustment. I certainly

2:27

blocked with my hands a lot last now. That's

2:29

absurd. It was odd to me to think that

2:31

there shouldn't be any difference. They just move to

2:34

the top. In fact, they should have a better

2:36

view. But for whatever reason, it's a little bit

2:38

crankier about my face. And the final thing is

2:40

volume controls. For several years now, there was a

2:42

thing where Apple introduced dynamic volume buttons on the

2:44

iPad, where when you had it in landscape, the

2:46

volume buttons would switch based on to match essentially

2:50

the little bar graph that fills on the screen.

2:52

So when you had it in landscape mode,

2:54

the right button would make the white part fill the

2:56

volume bar, basically making the volume go up. And the

2:58

left volume button would make it go down. And when

3:00

you made it vertical, you know, the up button would

3:02

make the thing go up. And anyway, and

3:05

that was the setting. In settings for years, it was like,

3:08

do you want it to do that? Or do you just want to

3:10

say this is volume up and this is volume down, no matter how

3:12

you orient the iPad. And so I got my new iPad, I'm watching

3:14

it in bed, I go to turn the volume up. Instead, the volume

3:16

goes down. And I'm like, oh, I got

3:18

to change that setting. Guess what? Settings gone. Modern

3:21

iPads do not give you that

3:23

setting. It's it's it's almost it's

3:25

not as bad as this, but it's almost as if

3:27

they went to natural scrolling. And they didn't give you

3:29

the option anymore on new Macs. I

3:32

just have to get used to the new setting. It's arbitrary,

3:34

which is volume, which is volume. I see the logic in

3:36

the dynamic controls. But on new iPads,

3:38

not just the M4, I think the most

3:41

recent two generations of iPads,

3:44

that dynamic volume control stuff is mandatory, there is

3:46

no more option for it. So get used to

3:48

dynamic volume buttons, I guess. Yeah, I can tell

3:51

you one thing. Mine have had that

3:53

for a long time for I guess since the last

3:55

iPad update I did a while a few years back.

3:57

I hate not having that option because I got

4:00

so. custom to be all way of doing it

4:02

and and and I'm not enough of an I

4:04

pad power user anymore to have gotten used to

4:06

the new way. so every time I do it

4:08

to do it wrong every single time. Yeah.

4:10

I'm assuming out of get you start I'm already kind of

4:12

Emmett. It makes sense, the way they do it is just

4:14

is is jarring because I'm so used to the other way.

4:17

but I use it everyday. I think I will. I

4:19

think I will come around on. His. I

4:21

have to tell ya, that was quick.

4:23

I'm surprised at that. I mean this,

4:25

it's working Great! Love love the adjustable

4:28

stands. Love Watson stories. That's. Exactly

4:31

what I wanted from a new I pad. I'm

4:33

very satisfied with this product. Oh, and I also

4:35

enable the percent battery thing with have no, I

4:38

didn't do it on the other one. I do

4:40

have an option back on the M one I've

4:42

ever. Erick Aybar some berries. Perfect. Maybe The thing

4:44

spends all time on my nightstand plugged and. I.

4:47

Never anymore neighbors and battery and if I do I

4:49

get a subset often touch them. From

4:51

off. That's. Pretty cool. I'm

4:53

glad you're going to like him and even waiting

4:56

for the long time or we have further follow

4:58

up and see back. The Mtb see magnets Real

5:00

What I think I might have brought not brothers

5:02

somebody brought it up last week and apparently misrepresented

5:05

episode and rights in to say are the reason

5:07

Empty Beach These magna diagram doesn't show any of

5:09

the rail of maggots in the back of the

5:11

why prose because there aren't any the to rails

5:14

are entirely was the back to new fully recovered

5:16

self. I guess I fabricated the memory that is

5:18

my missing from memory so bad Other me that

5:20

may have made this mistake of I was saying.

5:23

That this is a there was a mistake at the end

5:25

of the you tube shorter real or whatever when I was

5:27

only ever that I showed his are all the magnets are

5:29

like they didn't put in the rails because they were showing

5:31

the back of the I pad. not that Congress I regret

5:33

the her the video was incorrect. If.

5:36

Any party sunset or it says I

5:38

pad pro bending as everyone expected you

5:40

know with we we put the I

5:42

pads rose I pad pro through all

5:45

sorts of bends and twists and turns

5:47

because why wouldn't you do the yes

5:49

but and destroy a thousand plus dollar

5:51

device for clicks on you tube and

5:54

have been people done this including Juri

5:56

read everything and the verge head or

5:58

some coverage about it. In the conclusion

6:00

of or came to was even with some

6:02

aggressive bending. the central spine helps resist horizontal

6:05

Benz so that's is your holding a landscape

6:07

as I correct in trying to be have

6:09

ended in towards yourself. Vertical Benz you're holding

6:11

it in portrait and you're trying to bend

6:13

it in towards itself or towards you or

6:15

what have you ever? The bench don't do

6:18

as well though. The pro cracks right of

6:20

charging point reports which appears to be the

6:22

main structural weakness of advice what's it up

6:24

says and as as predicted there wasn't a

6:26

lot of scientific rigor to the you tube

6:28

bending. I saw some. People trying to their

6:31

ever heater? yeah, lowliest, are you going to

6:33

force meter weights or whatever they're doing and

6:35

such a bad way? Like the central question

6:37

is. Is this more benny than

6:39

the present? Pass one. I haven't seen any videos

6:41

that really answered this scientifically. That answer is a

6:43

kind of like well it feels like of kind

6:45

of say maybe it's better, maybe it's good, But

6:47

the upshot is it's definitely not worse. So I

6:49

was a ruse. If it was catastrophic, we worse

6:52

like a result is a so much worse ah

6:54

that would be in the video all of a

6:56

your said as he. They're kind of the same,

6:58

a little bit better when a little bit worse

7:00

than one particular direction of the other. But I

7:02

think Apple has safely avoided any kind of bend

7:04

to get because none of the videos I saw

7:06

know of so many videos. The opening this thing.

7:08

Came away saying this is so much worse

7:10

than the past one because it's not as

7:12

of the spine really helps again only one

7:14

direction. But I think that ah, Man.

7:17

Made a big difference and I think are actually

7:19

the millimeter wave thing people than rarely mentioned this

7:21

but the millimeter wave. Little. Cut

7:24

outside thing is another week point for bending and that

7:26

direction and the fact that this doesn't have one I

7:28

think help that like when you see them a break

7:30

of the at the U S B C part it's

7:32

like yeah give us the the side Boston they're not

7:35

the weakest part. Nuts with a break begins but you

7:37

don't see that happening at the moment. Array of think

7:39

is there is no you know poll for that or

7:41

whatever. So. As interesting side effect

7:43

that. Could

7:45

not apple Megan I asked if little I

7:47

pad. Or

7:50

right Quinn Nelson as had a

7:53

genuinely mind blowing video or Lisa

7:55

Bloom i freakin' mind on threads

7:57

a Blessing Queens the movie divorced

7:59

himself from Amazon which whatever that

8:01

find a building I have acid.

8:04

I'm like. It's a mess. Allegra

8:06

threads like. Right? Exactly. It's mass

8:08

launch a thread say center of here, just

8:10

throw something real quick and for for the

8:12

record I know we literally just of the

8:14

in our theme song to reflect that Rom

8:17

as on our Amazon is the place that

8:19

I am if I'm anywhere, but I've recently

8:21

been spending a lot more time. On.

8:24

None of these services and just

8:26

doing my work and being in

8:28

my life instead for doing your

8:30

work or you sooner Not mutually

8:32

exclusive. You can do your work

8:34

and also read threads. On a.

8:37

Mob. Maybe one one can. Ride

8:41

Yeah, that's that's a better way to put

8:43

a yeah because I think I have. I've

8:45

shown over the years that I may be

8:47

cannot do this. Companies are things I have.

8:49

the person who wrote quitter and has delivered

8:51

twitter Amazon occasionally Yes exactly. But and I

8:54

think it's like threads. I probably should have

8:56

gotten more into threads but didn't because I

8:58

couldn't use like that. We bought style out

9:00

of it was apps, are I target and

9:02

and so I just like I just didn't

9:04

get into it and. It's been.

9:07

Pretty. Fine for my life, especially like

9:09

an election year. All my god to

9:11

be not there and not constantly. in

9:13

all the constant dialogue everyone has about

9:15

every little thing, every little thing that

9:17

we are that were mad about today

9:19

that's going on in Sac, every little

9:21

thing that's like news breaking to be

9:24

like I miss most of it until

9:26

I just get like the some rivers

9:28

and later. It's glorious.

9:30

This is. This is the least

9:32

involved I have been in social

9:34

media in probably ten years. And

9:37

pretty much everything in my life is better.

9:39

and I missing nothing of value. So

9:41

just put it out there for if ever,

9:44

if you know if you want. If you're

9:46

sticking like what would it be like to

9:48

not be constantly involved and have this information

9:50

a hose like connected directly to my veins?

9:52

I can tell you that it's It's actually

9:54

nice and find to be less involved with

9:57

it and it's totally fine. With.

9:59

that said With that said,

10:01

back on the social network, let's talk

10:03

about what Quinn put on threads. So I'm

10:06

going to attempt to describe this, John, feel

10:08

free to interrupt and do a better job.

10:11

But Quinn noticed that when you're using, I forget

10:13

if it was Freeform or something else, but one

10:15

of the- No, that's in Apple Notes. Okay,

10:17

thank you. It was Apple Notes.

10:20

You can select different pens and pencils and

10:22

whatnot. And what Quinn had selected was a

10:24

fountain pen. And Quinn noticed

10:26

that when you do the little hover thing, and

10:28

I presume it continues while you're actually making a

10:30

stroke, but one way or another, that when you're

10:32

doing a hover, you'll see

10:35

the little dot where the pen will draw.

10:37

Fine. I have that in my

10:39

lowly 2021 or 2020, whatever it is, iPad Pro,

10:41

the M2 iPad Pro. What

10:45

makes the new one interesting though is that you

10:47

get a full shadow on

10:49

the screen of the writing implement

10:51

the pencil is acting as. So

10:54

in this example, you see a

10:56

shadow of the

10:59

fountain pen presented on

11:01

the screen. It is bananas. It's

11:03

worth pausing the podcast and quickly watching this

11:05

like 90 second video or whatever that he

11:07

put up. It is absolutely

11:09

bananas and super, super

11:12

cool. Necessary? Absolutely not, but

11:14

super freaking cool. You might

11:17

be in Freeform there because the fountain pen might not

11:19

be in Notes, but I tried it in Notes to

11:21

confirm all this. I think it's

11:23

in anything that has Apple's like pencil kit

11:25

kind of standard pencil input. When

11:28

you watch this video, turn the sound on. The

11:30

first time I watched it, I didn't have the sound

11:32

on, and so I just thought he was showing off

11:34

like, look, when you turn the pen, the hovering cursor

11:36

of the mark you're about

11:40

to make that turn. I was like, okay, yeah, that's

11:42

really nice, but we saw that in the keynote video.

11:44

That wasn't new. I didn't really get the

11:46

appeal, and then I rewatched it again

11:48

today with sound. As he pointed out

11:50

the shadow, I'm like, oh, the shadow

11:53

of the whole pen, that's really cool.

11:55

Yeah, yeah. But doing

11:57

this, it's interesting that they spent the CPU reus

12:00

and time to involve this because the shadow

12:02

only really appears when you get real close

12:04

with the tip. Like I was and also

12:06

when you're using the pencil the

12:08

pencil kind of blocks your view of the shadow.

12:10

Obviously, he's taking like video of it from the

12:12

side. It's easier to see it that way. So

12:15

this probably also explains why a lot of people

12:17

didn't notice it. I certainly didn't because

12:19

when you're drawing, I mean you don't

12:22

the pencil blocks it. Like I wanted to see the cool like,

12:24

you know, tip of the thing when I rotated like the one

12:26

I was using was like the like

12:29

a really pointy markers. You know those markers that have

12:32

like a really thin metal thing with a little marker-y

12:34

thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm using that because it's so

12:36

differently shaped than the pencil. You can really see that

12:38

this is obviously not the shadow of the pencil and

12:40

obviously doesn't care about light sources and stuff like that.

12:43

Like it's not physically accurate

12:45

or realistic, but it is a

12:47

fun whimsical thing and it's so weird that they

12:49

spent it. Apparently, it's updating

12:51

at like 120 frames per second and everything

12:53

and it's based on like 3D models of

12:56

the drawing instruments. So when you rotate the

12:58

pencil, the shadow also rotates like it's not

13:00

just a 2D cutout or whatever. Very

13:03

well done for something that is actually really difficult

13:05

to see if you're the one drawing with the

13:07

pencil. Yeah, super cool stuff.

13:09

And so Sebastian DeWitt from

13:13

Halide Camera wrote, I love

13:15

that people were like, well, I never use all the

13:17

power of my iPad Pro for anything. So Apple designers

13:19

and engineers went sick. That means we can render high

13:21

poly 3D tools with this new Apple pencil Pro to

13:23

cast dynamic shadows 120 frames per second. Yeah,

13:27

and probably someone dug up a 3D model if you

13:29

click through on that that too. You can see the

13:32

whatever USD file or dot obj file or whatever.

13:34

You can see how detailed the 3D model is

13:36

of a fountain pen, for example.

13:40

All right. Moving right along. Marco, a lot

13:42

of people wrote in, which apparently you were

13:44

too busy to see because you're too busy

13:46

actually getting work done. I'm really I'm really

13:49

not comfortable. Some of them actually emailed me.

13:51

So we actually did. I actually did. OK.

13:53

But anyways, a bunch

13:55

of people wrote in. And Steve Stutz was

13:58

maybe the first or perhaps the third. But

14:00

as Steve rights, I would like to let

14:02

Marco know that you can in fact opt

14:04

out of connecting to Audio and joining a

14:06

Zoo meeting. And a quick aside, this is

14:09

relevant because of retail meetings. I guess you

14:11

have an I pad. Is that right? That's

14:13

up by you or wanted to have? yeah,

14:15

Liam idea what? Yeah, Because like the sound

14:17

board is not like where I'm able to

14:19

sit and so I control it remotely basically

14:21

so that it's like there's there's a there's

14:23

a laptop of the Sanborn hosting the Zoom

14:26

call and then I can be anywhere else

14:28

in the room with what is either. I

14:30

pad or laptop. Being a participant of and and

14:32

like I bring promote myself to cohost so I

14:34

have full control over like kicking people out who

14:36

are spamming and stuff like that. I'm and and

14:39

might. My problem was I wanted to use an

14:41

I pad for that to do with. You know

14:43

it's a small role but. I. Couldn't get

14:45

the hype, had to not play any volume at

14:47

all and because I said like even if term

14:49

of I am all the way down the I've

14:51

had will will. Tap the the

14:53

minimum at the first square of volume

14:55

like he won't let you set zero volume.

14:58

Apparently somebody wrote in the say this

15:00

is actually problem with anything the use of

15:02

the I was call kit framework. So anything

15:04

that that provides voip kind of calling

15:06

you know he willingly thought that the I

15:08

your calls and in other apps like

15:10

seen a slacker what's happening with that's like

15:13

anything that uses. Ah, Caucus to

15:15

make calls on on I phones. Apparently

15:17

they all have this problem. But

15:20

yeah, so basically I couldn't figure out a

15:22

way to not have any audio play out of

15:24

the i've had ah when any zoom call.

15:26

but apparently if you just joined without audio c

15:28

o or even like disconnect audio if if

15:30

you quit and rejoin without it apparently that gives

15:33

you that option so I have access to

15:35

try that yet or but everyone wrote in the

15:37

zombie that so I assume it works. Yeah.

15:40

So I just finished Steve says as he back.

15:43

Yard this Me: don't buy one toggling on the

15:45

don't connect audio option or to forget to turn

15:47

on the don't connect audio total. You can tap

15:49

on or click more which is he would says

15:51

that and then tap or click on disconnect audio

15:53

spread to do not be able to his a

15:55

meeting or be heard in the meeting with audio

15:58

not connected. How reconfirm because of co host of

16:00

the meeting and either admit heard remove people from

16:02

meeting. Zoom also has some useful settings on their

16:04

website. If you have access to the tell you

16:06

use you can turn on an option that allows

16:08

you to request to on mute and mute participants

16:10

when they join a zoo meeting. You can also

16:12

disabled person spends for being able to on mute

16:14

themselves at any time during a meeting and you

16:16

can also prevent ones who have been removed for

16:18

meetings be able to rejoin the Zoom meetings all

16:20

of which sounds like stuff you might be interested

16:23

in just most of those actually use to thank

16:25

you for at. Ah

16:27

we have some breaking news with

16:29

regard sued Delta or this is

16:31

the extremely good and cool. Emulate

16:33

her for I O S A

16:35

rally Tested who is the primary

16:37

author of of Delta said that

16:39

was up there in legal trouble.

16:42

But. Not. For who you would

16:44

think it hurts out that Adobe was threatening

16:46

legal action because they think their logos are

16:48

too similar and so they had to release

16:50

a Delta. Had release an emergency update to

16:52

change it's ah it's a little wonky what

16:54

seems to do but I can concede that

16:56

they are fairly similar their the the original

16:59

logo in the had to the Adobe logos

17:01

are pretty. Some of the African A I

17:03

got triangle A with and will have foot

17:05

on the bottom. If you know the Adobe

17:07

loader looks like dealt assembly I see it

17:09

there somewhere and the new versus the top

17:11

chopped off of the and. Having irritated but

17:13

I'm pretty sure until they not a symbol

17:16

and Delta is from the way they wrote

17:18

the Am in the Gameboy Advance logo because

17:20

it was ripe remember like Gb A for

17:23

I owe us originally So it's just a

17:25

coincidence that Adobe's A logo is the same

17:27

as the the A Gameboy Advance from ages

17:29

ago. Ah yes I do a better than

17:32

getting results out from under. Lists.

17:34

also a the the greek letter delta which

17:37

i always used a shorthand for like change

17:39

which as it is an engineering thing i

17:41

thought so john adams and as you're aware

17:43

of this anyways that's a triangle so of

17:45

in so i think that that's also where

17:47

this kind of like i think it's combination

17:49

of everything radio it's would you be a

17:51

stuff and delta being a triangle settling on

17:53

fire by doby but settlers in one sense

17:55

that yes i mean bob is a yeah

17:58

like that there's a lot of triangular things

18:00

in the world. Adobe doesn't own triangles, but they

18:02

do kind of own triangles with this particular notch

18:04

cut out of them in the computer space. Yeah.

18:08

Indeed. All right. So

18:10

let's talk about, speaking of Delta, why a

18:12

GameCube or Wii emulator is not

18:14

possible in the iOS App Store. It may not

18:16

be possible. You can't say anything definitive about the

18:18

App Store, of course. Well, fair. Just

18:21

make it and submit it, and we'll let you know. Yeah.

18:23

Yeah, right. Do you know the story about Delta, by the way?

18:26

Did you hear he was on a podcast recently? He

18:28

went to a lab at WWDC and said,

18:31

hey, I'm thinking of making this emulator. Will

18:33

the App Store allow this? And the lab just said, yeah,

18:35

sure. So he spent a year making it, and then he

18:37

submitted it, and then, yeah, no, we're not accepting it. Yeah.

18:39

And in large part, that was the motivation to

18:42

start Alt Store, because that was such –

18:44

and just advice for those of you out

18:46

there, as we approach WWDC, and presumably there

18:48

will be probably one of those app review

18:50

lab Slack channels that they have had before.

18:53

Those people who are in those channels

18:56

oftentimes know a lot. They usually mean

18:58

well, but they are not Phil Schiller.

19:01

And the reality is, with the way the App Store

19:03

works, if Phil Schiller does not

19:05

want an app to be approved, it will

19:07

not be approved. So unless you hear directly

19:09

from Phil Schiller that your app idea is

19:11

okay, it won't be, necessarily. You're taking that

19:14

risk, and if you're somewhere – if you're

19:16

kind of like in the – in

19:18

like a vague boundary of the rules, or

19:21

you're pushing a little past some previous established

19:23

ground, like if you're going into new territory

19:25

and you think your idea might not make

19:27

it, it probably won't make it, or at

19:29

least you shouldn't depend on it. And no

19:32

matter what anybody in one of those labs

19:34

tells you, they're not going to be

19:36

Phil Schiller, and so they really can't say for sure.

19:38

Yes, we will definitely allow that. This

19:40

is why Apple has that policy of not telling you

19:42

whether it will be submitted yet. They always just say

19:44

submit it and find out, which sounds terrible, but it

19:47

is actually the only reasonable solution given the way Apple

19:49

runs the App Store, because unless they're

19:51

going to sign a contract with you that says,

19:53

we guarantee, according to these long specifications, that if

19:55

you've invented an app that works exactly like this,

19:57

we'll approve it, which obviously they're never going to

19:59

do. without the huge amount of legal work and it's

20:01

ridiculous. There's no way to guarantee because

20:04

you could talk to Phil Scholle, he could say, please

20:06

submit it, but a year later, so much can change

20:08

in a year. Should you

20:10

be shocked to see that even though they

20:13

said you've got the most authoritative person who said,

20:15

yes, a year ago, things change in a year.

20:18

If you're on those fringes or even if you're not,

20:20

even if you think you're dead center but Apple makes

20:22

a strategic change or something in the world changes, that's

20:26

one of the weaknesses of

20:28

having a channel where you're thinking it has

20:30

to be approved by a company that you

20:32

don't control. Unless you

20:34

literally have a legal contract with a lot of

20:36

detail and it says your thing is who you

20:38

get through, you're only going to find out when

20:40

you submit. Now most of the time, if

20:43

you're making like a to-do list app, you'll probably be fine.

20:45

It's not like it's just this mystery. We never know what's

20:47

going to be accepted. There

20:49

are categories that if you're asking

20:51

that question at a lab, hey, would you accept this app? It's

20:54

probably because you already know that your app is close

20:57

to the edges of what Apple accepts. It's

21:00

not like, Apple should just tell me and

21:02

keep their promises. That's not feasible either for

21:04

a big company or individual or anything. We

21:07

can't predict the future. Things change.

21:09

The landscape changes. The laws

21:11

change. Apple's strategic direction

21:13

changes. As painful as

21:15

it is to think, well, you just have to do the work first

21:17

and then submit it and cross your fingers, that's the way it is.

21:20

But hey, if you're in the EU and Apple doesn't accept it, you

21:22

have other options. So anyway,

21:24

coming back to GameCube and Wii

21:26

emulators, so it may, John, not

21:28

be possible because of just-in-time compilation.

21:31

So Dolphin OS developer

21:33

OatmealDome explained how a Dolphin

21:36

code fork, I'm sorry, I'm

21:38

reading from our technical, a

21:40

Dolphin code fork which ports the popular

21:43

GameCube and Wii emulator to Apple smartphone

21:45

OS uses just-in-time compilation to translate PowerPC

21:47

instructions from those retro consoles into ARM

21:49

compatible iOS code. But Apple's

21:51

app store regulations against apps that quote, install

21:53

executable code, quote, which is section 3.3.1D,

21:57

generally prevent JIT or just-in-time recompilation.

21:59

on iOS with very limited exceptions

22:01

such as web browsers. That

22:04

restriction may have some valid security reasoning

22:06

behind it, but it can

22:08

also get in the way for

22:10

developers of tools like third-party browser

22:12

engines, except recently in the EU.

22:14

So basically, without just-in-time recompilation, it's

22:16

just not fast enough. And in

22:19

that blog post, Oatmeal Dome shows

22:21

a video of the no

22:23

just-in-time recompilation playing a flavor of

22:25

Mario Kart and it

22:27

is just achingly slow. And

22:30

then the same app, well effectively the

22:32

same app running on the same device,

22:34

but this time it's just-in-time recompilation turned

22:37

on and it runs easily as well if

22:39

not better than it did on the original

22:41

hardware. So yeah, set times. Yeah,

22:44

I mean Apple could do some kind of

22:46

work to try to make a somewhat safer

22:48

version of this, but just a free-for-all just-in-time

22:50

compilation, it basically makes it impossible for Apple

22:53

to validate, for example, that

22:55

you're not using private APIs or whatever because

22:57

the app that they approved didn't use private

22:59

APIs, but just-in-time compilation means

23:01

that any time it can download new data

23:03

and compile that data into executable code and

23:06

run it. And Apple, the same way that

23:08

Apple doesn't allow you to download

23:10

pieces of your app at runtime and run them, right,

23:12

that's against the rules, this is the same type of

23:14

thing of like, well, if you get to take, obviously

23:17

what they're doing here is they're taking like a GameCube

23:21

game and using that code as

23:23

data and just-in-time recompiling it into ARM and

23:25

that should be fine. It's not like you're

23:27

using that to get it secret Apple APIs

23:29

or whatever, but Apple doesn't know. And so

23:31

that's why they have this rule, again, possibly

23:33

for security reasons of like, we don't want

23:36

you to be able to conjure up arbitrary

23:38

code at runtime that does whatever you want

23:40

it to do that we can never approve

23:42

because that is happening in the future. So

23:45

in this case, the rule against just-in-time compilation

23:47

does make some sense, but it's

23:49

such an essential part of doing things fast, like

23:51

say running JavaScript and browser engines, that Apple really

23:53

should work towards getting a

23:55

properly sandboxed, confined environment in which

23:57

it is safe to...

23:59

just-in-time compile code because these things just

24:02

want to run games. Like they're not trying

24:04

to use just-in-time compilation to hack into the

24:06

OS or whatever. So this is

24:08

a situation where there are actual technical

24:10

barriers to allowing apps to do this

24:13

if Apple wants to maintain the level of security

24:15

they have. Obviously, you're running on a Mac or

24:17

on a PC and the same exact security, quote-unquote,

24:19

security problems exist, but everyone's just okay

24:21

with it. So it could just be a mindset change,

24:23

but we'll see how this goes because, like,

24:26

running Delta, using Nintendo 64

24:28

games, NES games, and Super

24:30

NES, stuff like that. Those

24:33

are super old. You can get away with

24:35

doing those without just-in-time compilation, but as you

24:37

get closer and closer to modern consoles, you

24:39

start to need this. So even though

24:42

we're all enjoying all, wow, look at all these emulators

24:44

there, you can get even in the regular App Store.

24:47

That party is going to, if not end,

24:49

at least get a little bit more tame

24:51

as time marches on and people want to

24:53

play their quote-unquote retro Switch games, for example,

24:55

in five to 10 years. All

24:58

right. So it's time for me to

25:01

have a little laugh at your expense.

25:04

And I feel slightly bad doing this, but after all

25:06

you've put me through, not that bad. Mark

25:09

Gurman, right? Mark Gurman, I

25:12

love you, John. Mark Gurman, right.

25:14

No new Mac Studio. Yeah, okay,

25:16

whatever. And no Mac Pro until

25:18

mid 2025. I

25:20

have avoided this pain or I will

25:22

avoid this pain for like another year.

25:25

I could not be more excited. So Mark

25:28

Gurman writes, or excuse me, Mac rumors recaps

25:30

what Gurman wrote and Mac rumors writes, Gurman

25:32

says that Apple's current schedule does not include

25:34

the launch of the new of a new

25:36

Mac Studio or Mac Pro model until the

25:38

middle of next year. All other Macs

25:40

with the exception of the MacBook Air should be available with M4 series

25:42

chips by the end of 2024, but Gurman

25:45

does not anticipate any new models being unveiled

25:47

at WWDC in June, making 2022 and 2023

25:49

exceptions for recent mid-year Mac releases. You know,

25:51

I would love to hear your comments on

25:53

this, but all kidding aside, this is kind

25:55

of stinky and I, as much as I

25:58

snark and I joke, I don't love. that

26:00

the Mac Studio, which I think is a

26:02

very important Mac for the company, you know,

26:04

it's the super, it's the Macbook Pro of

26:06

desktops, if you will, and I'm sure John

26:09

will correct me in a second, but

26:12

it's kind of the, you know, it's the

26:14

anyone's desktop for people who

26:17

want something strong and powerful.

26:20

And the Mac Mini is pretty strong

26:22

and pretty powerful, but if you want more, then you can

26:24

get a Mac Studio. And the Mac Pro, like, as much

26:26

as, again, I joke, it

26:28

kind of bumps me out the way the Mac Pro is now,

26:30

because it's not, it's a Mac Pro in name and very little

26:33

else. So, John, I'm sorry. Tell

26:35

me what's going on here. I

26:37

mean, this is not a change. This was always

26:39

the rumor. But, you

26:41

know, hey, rumors, they hadn't been

26:43

sort of solidified, like, for example, German had not

26:45

come flat out and said, this is definitively what

26:47

it's going to be until recently. But the rumor

26:49

always was, hey, if you're

26:51

looking at the M4 line of chips, the M4 is going

26:53

to come out, and then there's going to be M4 Pro

26:55

and Macs, and maybe a model just for the Mac Pro,

26:58

and those timelines were always into next year, right? But the

27:00

question always was, okay, well, then what happens to the WWDC?

27:03

Because the WWDC, especially before the M4 rumor started

27:05

for the iPad, the expectation was,

27:07

well, surely at WWDC, that'll be the time for the Mac Studio

27:09

to get an update, and maybe the Mac Pro, set aside the

27:11

Mac Pro. But the Mac Studio, it was due for an update,

27:13

because we had the M3, M3 Pro, M3 Macs. Where's

27:17

the Mac Studio with an M3 Macs in it,

27:19

right? And maybe it'll be an M3 Ultra, and we talked

27:22

about that before, about the Interposer, and was it on the die,

27:24

and will there be an M3 Ultra, will there not be? Obviously,

27:26

the M4 threw a monkey wrench into all of that. This is

27:28

like, well, wait a second. They just introduced

27:30

an M4 iPad. Are they really going to

27:32

introduce a Mac Studio with anything that has

27:34

an M3 in front of the name, now

27:36

that the M4 exists? What are

27:38

they going to do? Is there going to be an M3 Ultra

27:40

in the Mac Studio? Or maybe

27:43

the M4 Macs and

27:45

Ultra are ready sooner than we thought, and German is

27:47

here to say no. There

27:49

will not be an M3 Ultra or M3

27:51

Macs, Mac Studio. There

27:54

will not be an M4 Mac Studio at

27:56

WWBC. There'll be no Mac Studio at WWBC,

27:58

and obviously no Mac Pro. That's

28:01

disappointing because that's going to mean the

28:03

Mac Studio and the Mac Pro are

28:05

stuck on the M2, which

28:08

as soon as the M4 Pro

28:10

and M4 Macs MacBook Pros

28:12

come out, they're probably going

28:15

to be embarrassing the Mac Studio and the

28:17

Mac Pro because we know the M4 already

28:19

beats it in single-core on my freaking iPad

28:21

with no fan in it. So

28:23

it's, I mean, jeez. Not

28:26

that you should feel bad if you had a Mac

28:28

Studio if you bought like the M2 Macs or M2

28:30

Ultra when it was new, fine, but don't buy a

28:32

Mac Studio now, right? You

28:34

just got to wait and the Mac Pro has always been a little

28:36

bit sad. So yeah, like I

28:38

was really curious about what they were going

28:40

to do there, but honestly, if

28:42

they had produced an M3 Ultra Mac Studio,

28:44

I think that would have been a fine

28:47

product to hold this over until

28:49

the M4 ones come, but instead they're just going to

28:51

let them languish. The Mac Pro is

28:53

used to that. The Mac Pro is used to being constantly in a state

28:55

of fighting for its life and in limbo. But

28:58

the Mac Studio, I felt like they're really, you know,

29:00

they updated that to the M1, they updated to the

29:02

M2, like, yeah, the Mac Studio. It's nice, you know,

29:04

it's the Mac Pro for people who don't want a

29:06

gargantuan thing on their desk, and especially now with the

29:08

current Mac Pro, it's basically a Mac Pro without the

29:10

card slots. It's a good

29:12

little computer and I felt like they should be

29:15

as dedicated to it as they are to all

29:17

their other computers, but they're not this

29:19

year. Maybe because of

29:21

the whole M3B thing and they really wanted to get

29:23

offered as fast as possible and they didn't want to

29:25

make an Ultra and they didn't want to put out

29:27

a Mac Studio without an Ultra, like, maybe if it

29:29

topped out at the M3 Macs, they'd be boring. But

29:31

anyway, that, you know, that's

29:34

what I was looking forward to at WWDC, but, you know, I

29:38

was looking forward to seeing what they would do and the answer

29:41

is nothing. So I guess we'll spend all our time at WWDC

29:43

talking about AI stuff. You get nothing.

29:45

Good day, sir. Yeah, I mean, I think what you

29:47

said a minute ago is correct. Like, they probably

29:49

didn't want to do or couldn't

29:51

reasonably price do the Ultra

29:54

version of the M3 and they wouldn't

29:56

update the Mac Studio to the M3

29:58

generation and have have just a Mac

30:00

and not an Ultra. So that's

30:03

probably the leading reason they didn't

30:05

do it. Oh, it's a shame because an

30:07

M3 Max Max Studio is still a great

30:09

little computer. I mean, yeah, like I'm saying

30:11

this, from my 16-inch M3 Max MacBook Pro

30:13

that's in desktop mode right now. So

30:16

not to make Mac Studio people feel

30:18

too bad about this, but two things.

30:22

Number one, if you want to make sure you

30:24

always have the cutting-edge chips, use

30:27

MacBook Pros, because they always get them, because

30:30

they're the high-end products. And number two. Well, they don't

30:32

get the Ultra. Well, and that's true, that's fair. But

30:35

number two, the Max Studio, I

30:40

continue to think that this was a branding

30:42

mistake that Apple made. The Max Studio is

30:44

just the Mac Pro. That's the new Mac

30:46

Pro, that's the Apple Silicon Mac Pro. The

30:48

Max Studio, just think of it like there's two

30:50

Mac Pros. One of them has a big case

30:53

that has card slots, and the other one has

30:55

a small case with no card slots. Those are

30:57

two configurations of the same computer and it's the

30:59

Mac Pro. Now, if you use that computer and

31:01

like that computer, that's great

31:03

for you. However, you bring

31:06

to that all the burdens

31:09

that the Mac Pro has always had. It

31:11

is a high-end, low-volume desktop

31:13

that Apple makes. Not

31:16

a lot of people seem to choose the

31:18

Max Studio slash Mac Pro for their needs.

31:20

So it's never really gonna

31:22

be that high of a priority for Apple.

31:24

Yeah, they'll get to it when they can

31:26

reasonably without too much spread off their back.

31:29

But if there's anything

31:31

competing for those factors,

31:33

like if they have to bend

31:36

over backwards to try to get some kind

31:39

of economy working with

31:41

low chip yields of a new process,

31:43

or if their engineering resources are tight

31:45

and they have to redesign other, or

31:48

high-volume computers first, the

31:50

Max Pro slash Studio is always going to be

31:52

kind of lower priority than everything else because they

31:54

just sell, I think they sell way fewer of

31:56

them than the other high-end Macs. And so, I

31:59

think That's a good question. Think that the router. If

32:01

you're going to be a high end Mack

32:03

desktop user you're gonna have pretty much the

32:05

same problem that most Mack high End as

32:07

have you have always had. which as you

32:09

are a small market to them and they

32:11

still care about you thank god but you're

32:13

a small market of up. And.

32:15

And as such as laptops of have gotten

32:17

better at being used as desktops I can

32:19

strong argument if you want something that is

32:21

updated more frequently and that's a big if

32:24

If you don't that's fine. If

32:26

you want some minutes a day more frequently and it

32:28

drives you nuts as a max to do owner that

32:30

like black husband faster than your computer and certain ways

32:32

for. Eight. months or whatever. Consider

32:35

switching to map of prose. it works

32:37

really well. If. You don't wanna do that.

32:40

Then. That's great. The max to use a computer

32:42

but you're going to have to deal with a slow

32:44

day cycle just like Pie and atop Savoy. That would

32:46

would have to basically do is like is in a

32:48

sovereign by the new computer every year right? So if

32:50

you buy a new computer every three years. You.

32:52

Have to buy on the year that the

32:54

max to the her Mac pro is just

32:56

updated. Because. You don't wanna buy Soya.

32:58

I buy new computer every three years from I

33:01

work right. Do Not buy the M to Max

33:03

Studio like two days before the M Four ones

33:05

around me. It's like you have to sync up

33:07

your cycle with the not so frequent really cycle

33:09

these and if you do that you're not losing

33:11

out because again if you don't buy new computer

33:13

every year it's not important to you that all

33:15

this year the macro prose of these have center

33:18

that you aren't going to buy new computer anyway

33:20

you're going to buy. You know M for Mac

33:22

pseudo what on the day comes out and you're

33:24

gonna keep it for three years. and then when

33:26

the M Six Max. Your comes up and you're

33:28

going to buy that or whatever it whatever upgrade

33:31

cycle your aunt you need the by on the

33:33

on the release of whatever big desktop Mack you

33:35

want. Same thing with the Imac. Obviously if you

33:37

shouldn't have bought an M one Imac two days

33:39

before the imprisons came out around. you know it's

33:42

like if you are buying a one of the

33:44

Mack models that Apple is not interested in updating

33:46

frequently because they're low volume or whatever. Try.

33:48

to sync up with that which it wasn't this

33:51

are you know when it's happening but if you

33:53

don't you just wonder and an apple store you

33:55

could end up buying enough again dumped on buying

33:57

them to max today's for the informer someone comes

33:59

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36:05

right, so we have an interesting

36:07

thing to cover. And before you just

36:09

mash on the chapter skip button, I'd

36:11

encourage you to give us a chance

36:13

here. So Microsoft has,

36:15

is it build that's

36:17

going on right now? Is that right? Yeah, well this was

36:19

an event the day before build started. Sorry, that's right, yes

36:21

it is. Anyways, one way or

36:23

another, Microsoft is in the midst of

36:26

their build event, which is kind of their WWDC. But

36:29

like John just said, a day before that,

36:31

they had kind of a keynote sort of

36:33

thing where they announced

36:35

a whole bunch of new hardware that

36:38

Microsoft amongst others are making. And

36:41

I gotta tell you, I watched this

36:43

when it appeared in the show notes. I didn't pay

36:45

that much attention to it before then. It's a little

36:48

over an hour. I mean, I

36:50

watched it at 2X, but it wasn't

36:52

particularly boring. And in fact, I

36:54

would go so far as to say, it was actually

36:56

really interesting because this is Microsoft,

36:58

yeah, in a lot of ways, they're aping

37:00

Apple's style and whatnot. But in terms of

37:03

what they were announcing, it

37:05

was a lot of stuff that I

37:07

thought was really interesting. And some of

37:09

it looked really compelling. So I don't

37:12

know how we wanna go through this. John, if you want

37:15

me to start reading bullets that we have in our show

37:17

notes, or if you have like an opening statement or something,

37:19

but how do you wanna handle this? Well, let me just

37:21

read the first line item and paragraph

37:23

here, because then I'll have something to say. So

37:25

this is the kickoff with the Verge story about

37:28

this. And their headline was, inside

37:30

Microsoft's mission to take down the MacBook

37:32

Air. Straight forward,

37:34

pretty provocative title there from

37:37

the post, Microsoft is confident that

37:39

it finally nailed the transition to ARM chips.

37:41

So confident that this time around, the company

37:43

spends an entire day pitting its new hardware

37:45

against the MacBook Air. All right, so we've

37:48

talked about in the show many times in the past about

37:51

Windows on ARM and

37:53

PCs on ARM chips. Very

37:56

often it's in the context that

37:58

everyone's Casey's favorite topic, the Mac press. Because

38:00

what I will always say about the Mac Pro and ARM

38:02

based Mac Pros and then we got like Yeah, if you

38:04

keep questions about it, whatever like hey, you're gonna game on

38:06

your Mac Pro when you get a Mac Pro with arm

38:08

And do you care about GPU? What are you gonna use

38:10

all that GPU for if there's no games or whatever? I

38:12

haven't always been saying for years and years is hey Windows

38:16

runs on arm like Windows Microsoft is like Windows RT

38:18

or whatever years and years ago, right? Windows

38:20

runs on arm and ARM CPUs

38:22

are you know more widespread than they

38:24

used to be I Have

38:27

always been rooting for the

38:29

PC world the Windows PC world

38:31

to make a transition to arm

38:34

Mostly for selfish reasons because I want all the

38:36

PC games to be compiled for arm So then

38:39

I can run them at native speeds on my

38:41

future arm Mac Pro, but even setting that

38:43

aside It's just nicer

38:45

for everybody When Mac's

38:47

and PCs use the same architecture

38:49

and we have this this beautiful

38:51

golden period where Mac's were x86

38:53

and Windows was x86 And

38:56

as a Mac user that meant you could

38:58

run a virtual PC or power not virtual

39:00

PC A VMware or parallels or whatever and

39:03

run Windows at full native speed

39:05

with really good compatibility Yeah,

39:08

just to briefly interrupt here I

39:11

don't think I would be a Mac user right

39:13

now if it wasn't for that because I had

39:15

been a PC user my entire life Granted I

39:17

had some time with Linux on the desktop. I

39:19

had my my college period if you will but

39:22

anyways, I Needed a

39:26

Way to ease into the transition and

39:28

I like so many other people had

39:30

convinced myself I can't

39:32

do everything I want without you

39:35

on Mac OS I need

39:37

to your OS tenants. It was called the time be honest.

39:39

You probably called it OS X I

39:42

don't think I did but it would I'm not above it.

39:44

So anyway, I Needed

39:47

a way to ease into it I needed to be

39:49

able to walk into the shallow end or wait into

39:51

the shallow end and VMware fusion is

39:53

what I happen to choose but that's what I

39:56

did and then that allowed me to

39:58

use certain apps that I don't

40:00

even remember what they were in hell, but that I didn't

40:02

think I could live without. And then, it wasn't long after

40:04

I started using a Mac that I realized, oh my god,

40:06

this is so much better than my PC. I

40:09

really kind of want to use this for

40:11

everything, not just personal stuff. I

40:13

could just use VMware Fusion

40:15

and make a VM

40:19

that is my work computer. And I can use

40:21

my work computer inside my Mac. You know, hey,

40:23

dog, I hear you like computers. Let's put a

40:26

computer in your computer. So

40:28

that's what I ended up doing. And for a long time

40:30

at work, I was using a personal Mac with a

40:33

VM, a Windows VM. And it ran

40:35

really well. I mean, it wasn't perfect,

40:37

but it was really good. And

40:39

I don't think I would be a Mac user today.

40:41

And I suspect that's true of a lot of people

40:44

if it wasn't for that. And this was my

40:46

understanding was this was garbage when you

40:48

were trying to cross a processor architecture.

40:50

And that's kind of where we are

40:53

right now. Yeah. And so

40:55

Microsoft did have Windows on Arm from ages

40:57

ago, but they didn't really have a good

40:59

compatibility story of how to run x86 apps

41:01

or whatever. And Windows RT

41:03

was not particularly popular. They

41:05

had all the PC makers making Windows

41:08

RT devices, but

41:11

most PCs were still x86. Certainly

41:13

most games were x86. You know, and

41:16

this is kind of their second time.

41:18

Maybe I'm missing the counts, but it is

41:21

a subsequent run at the same idea. Now,

41:23

here's the thing about Microsoft and Arm and

41:25

Windows. Unlike Apple, Microsoft

41:27

just can't say, guess

41:29

what? We're transitioning to Arm because Microsoft doesn't

41:31

make all the PC hardware in the world.

41:34

They make some PC or which is a

41:36

change from years ago. Right. But

41:38

they don't make most of the PC hardware. Apple makes all

41:40

the Mac hardware. So if they want the Mac to transition

41:42

to Arm, guess what? They just stop selling the x86 ones

41:44

and the Mac is transition to Arm. Right. Microsoft

41:47

can't do that. So they have

41:49

to convince

41:52

the PC makers to make Arm PCs, which

41:54

is relatively easy because the PC makers rely

41:56

on Microsoft. Right. But then they

41:58

have to convince the customers. to buy

42:00

them. And their second run at

42:02

this, their way of convincing them is twofold.

42:05

One, we're going to make like

42:07

good laptops. You know the MacBook Air that everybody

42:09

loves? We're going to make a laptop like that.

42:12

So and people like that, right? So now you want

42:14

to buy this, right? And it's better than the Intel

42:16

laptops for all the reasons that the MacBook Air is

42:18

better than the Intel laptops, better performance, lower, you know,

42:22

power draw, all this just all these wonderful features, right? So we're

42:24

going to make hardware that you like. And

42:26

also, we're going to do or try

42:29

to do an Apple style backward compatibility thing. Every

42:31

time Apple has done a processor transition, and they

42:33

did it three times on the Mac, they

42:35

always have a way for you to essentially run

42:38

your old applications in a way that's good enough

42:40

that you don't care, right? And

42:42

every single time they've done this amazingly, they say, hey,

42:44

do you have an old 68k application? Your

42:47

PowerPC Mac will run faster than 68k one ever

42:49

ran before. You have an old PowerPC app, and

42:52

you want to run an Intel, we can do that for you too.

42:54

And then same thing with, you know, running x86

42:56

now on ARM things. It's not ideal. Eventually, you

42:58

want everyone to port their apps, you want to

43:00

support fat binaries, universal binaries, blah,

43:02

blah, blah, right? But you

43:05

really can't sell someone a new computer and

43:07

new architecture and say, yeah, most of your

43:09

old apps won't work. Sorry about that. You

43:12

have to provide a smooth ramp and they're

43:14

trying to use it at this time. But

43:16

the way they're doing it is they're not

43:18

saying that this presentation wasn't, oh,

43:20

this is what Microsoft announcing, but

43:23

ARM is the future and all PCs have

43:25

changed ARM. That's not the presentation they gave.

43:27

They can't give that presentation. They shouldn't give

43:29

that presentation. They didn't give that. Instead, they

43:31

said, here are some amazing new PCs that

43:33

we hope you'll really like. And

43:36

they look certainly by Microsoft

43:38

standards. They're pretty amazing, actually. So,

43:40

yeah, reading from the verge, Microsoft is confident.

43:42

It finally nailed the transition to ARM chip.

43:44

So confident that this time around the company

43:47

spent an entire day pitting its new hardware

43:49

against Macbook Air. So let's start with performance.

43:52

Over the past two years, Microsoft has worked

43:54

in secret with all of its top laptop

43:56

partners to ready a selection of ARM powered

43:58

Windows machines that will hit the market

44:01

this summer. Quick aside,

44:03

they launched, I think like a year ago now,

44:05

they launched something called Copilot, or maybe it was

44:07

a GitHub that launched it one way or another.

44:09

Somebody, Microsoft released it. It was a Microsoft thing.

44:12

That was their AI branding from multiple

44:14

years ago, I think, maybe.

44:16

Okay. And I love that. I think it's great. I

44:18

really genuinely do. I think, you know, Copilot

44:21

is a way to assist you in getting your work done.

44:23

I think it's great. And so, kudos

44:26

to them for that. It's a surprisingly

44:28

good name, especially for Microsoft. So,

44:30

coming back, machines

44:33

that will hit the market this summer,

44:35

known as Copilot plus PCs, they were

44:38

doing so well. Yeah. So,

44:40

this name, so you have to

44:42

read this three times to be like, wait, what? That's

44:45

the name. These new kinds

44:47

of PCs that Microsoft is promoting

44:49

here, they have a

44:52

name that's applied to them that, you know, not

44:54

just Microsoft sells them. Anybody who sells one of

44:56

these things, Dell, Asus, whatever, they

44:58

are selling a Copilot, then a

45:00

plus symbol, then the PC. Do

45:03

you have a Copilot plus PC? Yeah, I have a Dell

45:05

one of those. I have a Microsoft one of those. It's

45:07

a Copilot plus PC. Terrible

45:09

name. But you

45:11

can see the reason they did it. And it's

45:13

also a terrible reason, but you can see why,

45:16

right? Because what they want to say about these

45:18

laptops, this new kind of laptop in the PC

45:20

world, it's called the Copilot plus PC. And what

45:22

they want to say about them is these

45:24

PCs can do AI stuff because Copilot

45:27

is our AI thing. It helps you

45:29

along with your work, right? Why

45:32

it's called Copilot plus PCs and not just called

45:34

Copilot PCs, but anyway, they're going to say, this

45:36

is what distinguishes these laptops. They can do AI

45:38

stuff. AI stuff is novel. Lots of people haven't

45:40

seen it. And only these can do it because

45:42

for reasons that we'll get into shortly, right?

45:46

I get that AI and Copilot is a

45:48

popular brand or whatever, but

45:50

I can almost guarantee you that

45:52

the main reason people are going to

45:54

buy these laptops has nothing to do

45:56

with Copilot. So by calling them Copilot

45:58

plus PCs, I hope

46:01

they're not, I mean, they've probably just changed their mind, but like you

46:03

don't want to be stuck with that name because as far as I'm

46:05

concerned and as far as I think the world is concerned, it's like,

46:07

oh, these are the PCs that are

46:09

good like Macs are good, right?

46:12

In terms of laptops, size, weight, performance,

46:14

battery life, right? These

46:17

are the PCs that aren't burdened by Intel

46:19

falling behind at x86, right? That's

46:22

what these PCs actually are, but Microsoft

46:25

is entirely branding them based on AI

46:27

features that frankly I think

46:29

are of speculative

46:31

usefulness to customers. I know people are interested

46:33

in them and there's buzz around them and

46:35

they're novel, but I don't

46:38

think the market has shown that

46:40

they're so important that people are

46:42

willing to buy a different PC

46:45

with a different architecture just to get access

46:47

to AI features that they've never used before,

46:49

but that Microsoft tells them will be super

46:51

useful. So

46:54

bummer on the branding, bummer on the name,

46:56

but you can see how they got there.

46:59

It's like when a company has something like, this is

47:01

the future and we should... It's like

47:04

if they named like, I don't know,

47:06

it's like if they named the new

47:08

line of Macs to be like... I'm

47:11

trying to think of a good example of

47:14

like, you know, they could use their Siri

47:16

branding, which has been their machine learning brand

47:18

so far. All

47:21

our Macs from now on are going to

47:23

be Siri Macs because Siri is so important.

47:25

Siri plus Macs. Right, or Macs plus Siri.

47:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I think you're right

47:30

that the AI stuff

47:32

and copilot stuff is perhaps not enough to

47:34

sell these machines, even though it did look

47:36

pretty slick to me, but there

47:38

is a lot here that is good because

47:40

it turns out that making a

47:42

full bore computer out of an

47:45

ARM-based processor has some benefits.

47:47

Who knew? So, it's

47:50

so known as Copilot plus PCs,

47:52

they're meant to kickstart a generation

47:54

of powerful, battery efficient Windows laptops

47:56

and lay the groundwork for an

47:58

AI powered future. the minimum

48:00

specs for a Copilot Plus PC, and I think

48:02

these are the only three things that were ever

48:05

enumerated, maybe there's more, but you

48:07

need 16 gigs of RAM or more, you

48:09

need a 256 gig hard drive or more,

48:11

and you need a NPU, or I guess

48:13

neural processing unit, is that right, capable

48:16

of 40 tops, they talked about tops

48:18

all the time, all over and over

48:20

again, tops. So these minimum specs apply to everybody

48:22

who wants to use the Copilot Plus PCs branding,

48:25

and this is how Microsoft is essentially trying to

48:27

herd the PC mark in the direction, hey, Microsoft's

48:29

gonna put a lot of money into marketing this

48:31

terrible name, right? Do you wanna

48:34

be able to say that you're selling a Copilot

48:36

Plus PC? They went to all their PC hardware

48:38

vendors and said, we want you all to make

48:40

Copilot Plus PCs, we're gonna market this, you're gonna

48:42

sell these things, you're gonna do it, we're gonna

48:44

do it together, but to get

48:47

the Copilot Plus PC branding, you have to meet

48:49

this minimum spec, 16 gigs of RAM, you know,

48:51

256, blah, blah, blah, right? 16

48:53

gigs of RAM as a minimum spec for a Copilot Plus

48:55

PC is yet another slap in

48:58

the face of Apple and their stupid eight

49:00

gigabyte RAM based on so many of their

49:02

models. Now you might say, well, it's

49:04

because Windows uses so much more memory and the AI stuff

49:06

uses so much more memory and Apple has more memory efficient

49:08

so they only need it, it gives you yada, yada, yada,

49:10

the point is Apple puts too little RAM in its things.

49:12

And so the minimum spec being 16 really

49:16

is starting to slap our Apple,

49:18

256 gig hard drive is a little small,

49:20

but whatever. The NPU thing, we talked

49:22

about this last week, 40

49:24

trillion operations per second, what kind of

49:27

operations? Eight

49:29

bit integer operations, 64 bit floating point operations,

49:32

32 bit integer operations, no one

49:34

ever wants to specify. But based on

49:37

what we saw last week of how

49:39

Apple's own numbers changed from the M3 being 18 tops

49:42

to the M4 being 38 tops, and

49:45

that being because, oh, that was 18, 16 bit tops, but

49:48

it's 38, eight bit tops, I

49:50

have to think this 40 number is eight

49:52

bit, but Microsoft didn't specify. So if

49:55

you're trying to compare tops, it's a bad, it's

49:58

not really a unit. you don't know what

50:00

they're operating on, right? How many one-bit operations can you

50:02

do per second? You could do even more. And

50:05

for people who don't know about SIMD instruction and stuff

50:08

like that, it's basically like you have a certain

50:11

amount of space to put a bunch of numbers in, and you

50:13

could put like two 8-bit numbers or

50:15

one 16-bit number. If you put two 8-bit

50:17

numbers and you add that value, oh, I

50:19

just did two additions, but if you put

50:21

one 16-bit number, you just did one addition.

50:23

But in either case, you added those things

50:27

to another set of those things, right? So it's

50:29

a little bit fudging of these numbers and what

50:31

TOPS means, and I'm really not happy about TOPS

50:33

being a thing that manufacturers are touting, because

50:36

none of them seem interested in telling us

50:38

what those operations were

50:40

performed on. Maybe there's some kind

50:42

of unification about them always touting

50:44

the biggest number, which I guess

50:46

everyone's decided going smaller than 8-bit

50:48

seems kind of cheap. So

50:51

maybe it's 40 trillion 8-bit operations, but we

50:53

don't know. But anyway, this

50:55

is basically saying you've got to have some

50:57

kind of neural engine to use Apple Speak

51:00

that has decent performance to be a Copilot

51:02

Plus PC. It doesn't

51:04

seem like this is just a bunch of

51:07

BS, that they're actually inferior hardware that

51:10

is that they're just pumping up at the

51:12

stats. It seems from the test

51:14

they've shown so far, of course, with all

51:17

the caveats that these are like demo tests

51:19

from a keynote or whatever, it seems like

51:21

this is actually likely to

51:23

be real competition for Apple's M chips.

51:26

And that's fantastic. Well, the M4 was

51:28

38 TOPS, and this is 40. So

51:30

yeah, ballpark. Right. And so far, the

51:33

rest of the performance seems like it's

51:36

actually theoretically going to

51:38

actually provide a really good competition. And for me, even

51:41

though I'm a huge Apple fan, and especially

51:43

of the Mac, I

51:45

hope these are faster than the M

51:47

chips, because Apple

51:49

is at its best when there's really

51:52

good competition. And

51:54

there are parts of Apple that

51:57

are extremely complacent recently.

52:00

Now the thing is the Mac hardware division really is

52:02

not among them. The Mac hardware is

52:04

great and it's better than it's ever been

52:06

and it's updated despite earlier

52:08

conversations about the Mac Studio and

52:10

Mac Pro. The overall Mac hardware lineup

52:12

is updated pretty well now and

52:16

pretty much every model of Mac now is in

52:18

a really good place for the most part. And

52:21

so I wouldn't say Mac hardware

52:23

is being complacent

52:25

or slacking off or taking their foot

52:27

off the gas. I would

52:30

say Mac software is and

52:32

I would say certainly we'll

52:35

see what happens with Apple and any

52:38

of their modern AI features that may or

52:40

may not be announced in a few weeks.

52:42

We'll see. That remains to be seen how

52:44

that goes. But what I love about this

52:47

announcement is that it looks

52:49

like Microsoft and all the various partners

52:51

they're in, it looks

52:53

like they're actually going to really provide

52:55

strong competition for the first time in a

52:58

long time, at least in some

53:00

areas, in the hardware areas. And to

53:02

attack the MacBook Air with

53:05

what looks like a pretty strong

53:07

attack, I think that's fantastic.

53:09

That's great for the industry. That's how

53:11

we get really good change coming. That's

53:14

how we get really good improvements. That's

53:16

how we get 16 gigs of frickin'

53:18

RAM. That's how we get everything getting

53:20

better for the customers. It happens when

53:22

Apple is forced not to be complacent,

53:24

when there's actually real competition. And

53:26

this will be a theme I think throughout

53:28

the next few years. I

53:31

suspect – granted, this is – again,

53:33

we have yet to see what Apple has

53:36

in response to the recent AI mania.

53:40

I suspect whatever they unveil

53:42

at WVDC is going

53:44

to underwhelm most of us in that area.

53:46

I think they're going to be way behind.

53:48

I think they're going to take a very,

53:51

very conservative approach to any kind of, quote,

53:53

AI-based features. And I bet

53:55

the companies that were there earlier and have invested

53:57

more heavily in it basically – Google

54:01

and Microsoft especially, I

54:03

bet Google and Microsoft are gonna be way

54:05

ahead of Apple in AI-based

54:07

features for a long time, possibly

54:09

for like a decade. I think

54:12

this is a direct assault on

54:14

Apple's core businesses, even the iPhone,

54:16

and I think that's fantastic. I think Apple

54:18

needs that more than anything because I have

54:22

not kept quiet that I really do think

54:24

there's a lot more parallels between Tim Cook

54:26

and Steve Ballmer than most Apple fans are

54:28

willing to admit. Steve Ballmer

54:30

did not make Microsoft unsuccessful.

54:34

He made Microsoft miss the next big thing. I

54:37

think that's substantially at

54:39

risk here with Apple. I think Apple

54:41

may have missed slash be missing

54:44

a lot of new tech around these new

54:47

AI techniques and models that their

54:49

competition is investing very heavily into

54:52

and developing very quickly and very,

54:55

they're iterating quickly, they're turning things around quickly.

54:58

A lot of it still, yes, is vaporware, a lot

55:00

of it still is not as good in practice as

55:02

a demos, but there's a lot of value there that

55:04

Apple is so far not capturing. Again,

55:06

it remains to be seen what will happen, what will

55:08

they show us in a few weeks, and how

55:11

will that stage out the rest of the year

55:13

into various products and releases? We'll find out. But

55:16

I have a feeling

55:18

the most likely outcome of all that

55:20

is they're way behind and dipping their

55:23

toe in very conservatively while their competitors

55:25

are pushing really hard, and that's a

55:27

threat to the iPhone. That's

55:29

a big deal if that's the case.

55:31

So I think this

55:33

is gonna be a really exciting time, not because

55:36

I want Apple to lose, but

55:38

because they're gonna, I think, have

55:40

really strong competition, stronger than they've had in

55:42

a long time, and they're

55:45

gonna start seeing actual disruption in

55:47

their core product lines because their

55:49

competitors are gonna be doing substantial

55:51

things that either have matched areas

55:53

that Apple's had a lead in

55:55

for a while, like some

55:57

of this hardware from Microsoft and Qualcomm and everything.

56:00

Or their competitor is gonna be doing

56:02

things that Apple just can't keep up with in

56:05

the areas of AI and AI-based features.

56:08

That, I think this is gonna be a

56:10

really exciting time for computers and for Apple

56:12

fans, because we're gonna start actually

56:14

getting punched here and there, we're gonna start losing some things,

56:17

and that's gonna make Apple wake up in

56:19

some areas that they need to be woken

56:21

up in and actually

56:24

get them to make some really good stuff again in

56:26

a lot of these complacent areas. Yep,

56:28

so as we continue, our

56:30

Seneca writes that right now, the requirement

56:32

of 16 gigs RAM, 256

56:35

gig hard drive, and NPU capable of 40

56:37

trillion operations per second, or 40 tops, the

56:40

only, that can only be met by

56:42

a single chip in the entire Windows

56:45

PC ecosystem. The Snapdragon, Qualcomm

56:47

Snapdragon X Elite, God,

56:49

I'm fumbling all over my mouth here, because these

56:51

are so, Oh, they're terrible, man. They're really terrible.

56:53

Anyway, well, I'm just like M4. All

56:57

right, Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite and X

56:59

Plus, which I'm assuming are X's, maybe

57:01

they're 10s, who even knows? But

57:04

those are the only chips that are

57:06

capable of doing it, and I think that basically

57:08

only one of these two is out today or

57:10

something along those lines. No, I think they're both

57:13

available. So this Qualcomm Snapdragon thing, so we've been

57:15

hearing about this chip for a while now, for

57:17

like months now, people are saying this is gonna

57:19

be the, first it was gonna be the M2

57:21

killer, then it was gonna be the M3 killer,

57:23

now it's the M4 killer, because Apple keeps releasing

57:25

your chips. This

57:28

is from Qualcomm, Apple's

57:30

friendly neighborhood supplier of cell

57:33

modems and other things that Apple wants to replace

57:35

in its hardware. Qualcomm

57:37

bought Nuvia in 2021 for $1.4

57:39

billion. Nuvia

57:42

was a startup making

57:44

ARM chips, I think they were making

57:46

like ARM server chips. Nuvia was started

57:48

by a bunch of Apple Silicon people

57:51

that left Apple and formed their own

57:53

company to make ARM chips that Apple

57:55

was interested in making. So

57:57

Qualcomm essentially bought a

57:59

bunch of the... people who helped Apple make

58:02

all of its the M series chips and the A

58:04

series chips or whatever, that

58:06

was a wise move because Qualcomm's ARM

58:08

SoCs were not as good as Apple's

58:11

for many, many years. And this seems

58:13

to be the first fruit of the

58:15

Nuvia acquisition, which

58:18

is an ARM chip that is in

58:20

the conversation with Apple's ARM chips. And it's a

58:22

Snapdragon X Elite and X Plus, which

58:25

is not great naming. The

58:27

Plus has a 10-core CPU and goes

58:29

up to 3.4 gigahertz. And the

58:31

Elite has a 12-core CPU that clocks

58:33

higher. It goes up to 3.8 with

58:36

a, quote, dual-core boost to

58:38

4.2 gigahertz. And they both

58:40

have 136 gigabits per second memory bandwidth.

58:43

The M4, remember from past show, the

58:45

M4 just broke the 100 gigabytes

58:47

per second barrier because M1, M2, and M3

58:49

were all 100 gigabytes per second. M4

58:52

is 120 gigabytes per second. This

58:55

Snapdragon X chip is 136 gigabytes per

58:57

second. So

58:59

spec-wise, clockwise, these are a little bit slower than

59:01

the M4 as well. But

59:04

if you look at these chips and you're

59:07

like, OK, well, just based on this part of the

59:09

specs, I can see how this potentially

59:12

could be in the conversation with Apple

59:14

stuff. Now, when the rumors were going

59:16

for the Snapdragon X, the

59:18

main ding against these chips in the rumors was,

59:21

OK, so the specs are comparable to

59:23

an M2 or better than

59:25

an M2, comparable to an M3, and now maybe

59:28

within shouting distance of an M4. But

59:31

we don't know how much power they take. That was

59:33

kind of the ding on the Intel chips

59:35

before. The ARM ones, you get Intel

59:38

laptops that had CPUs that

59:41

could match or beat the CPUs

59:43

in Apple laptops. But they used

59:45

so much more power. And their battery life was

59:47

awful. And some of them, even when they weren't

59:49

plugged in, they would clock themselves down and get

59:51

even worse performance. So it was

59:54

like, OK, we can't just look at whether you

59:56

can beat a Mac in performance if

59:58

your battery life is half as long as you can. Nobody

1:00:00

wants your laptop. So that was always the ding

1:00:02

in the rumors against the snapdragon x things Oh,

1:00:04

they're probably going to be comparable, but I bet

1:00:06

they're going to get way worse battery life But

1:00:09

this this presentation spent a long

1:00:12

time trying to say that that's

1:00:14

not the case that these laptops are

1:00:17

Not only you know Macbook air

1:00:19

caliber performance They're just so weird that they're

1:00:21

like judging as the MacBook Air which is

1:00:23

not Apple's most Performing like laptop,

1:00:26

but well if they're top seller it's probably Microsoft

1:00:28

competition for anything in this price range Right, but

1:00:30

like if you're doing it Like you would think what you'd

1:00:32

be doing if you're competing as a MacBook Air is just

1:00:34

showing like battery life things Whatever but they want to show

1:00:36

that it has the speed, you know, and and it's a

1:00:38

little bit like So obviously the

1:00:40

Macware only has the m3 Apple roll out the m4,

1:00:42

but it's not in a MacBook Air yet So this

1:00:44

is a time to strike because when the m4 MacBook

1:00:46

Air is out Maybe the cut viruses won't be as

1:00:48

favorable because the m4 looks pretty darn good But anyway,

1:00:51

that's what they were comparing it now. The

1:00:53

one thing they do have going for them is

1:00:57

These are PCs which you would presume They're

1:01:00

going to be less expensive with

1:01:02

better specs than Apple stuff now

1:01:04

Microsoft's PCs because Microsoft does make

1:01:06

hardware Microsoft's PCs Historically have not

1:01:09

actually been super cheap, right?

1:01:11

You can always get cheaper models with similar

1:01:13

specs from other PC makers Microsoft from

1:01:16

the beginning with its whole, you know

1:01:18

self branded service line of Microsoft PCs

1:01:22

Has been trying to be the Apple of

1:01:24

PC hardware right down to their hardware very

1:01:26

often looking a lot like Apple hardware And

1:01:29

so they have a new laptop. They call the surface

1:01:31

laptop 7th edition. At least they didn't call it 7th

1:01:34

generation And so there's

1:01:36

been a lot of service laptops before but this

1:01:38

is the good service laptop Because

1:01:41

it comes with this ARM processor that

1:01:43

is potentially, you know m3 or m4 class So

1:01:47

looking at the pricing just at a broad

1:01:49

level because remember this starts at 16 gigs

1:01:51

So what I wanted to see was okay, it

1:01:53

starts 16 gigs You

1:01:56

know, you can't the base MacBook Air doesn't start at

1:01:58

16 gigs, but you can get it Up

1:02:00

to that I think so what are the what are

1:02:02

the price comparison looks like so the base model? 13

1:02:05

inch surface laptop with 16 gigs of RAM and 256 gigs

1:02:08

of SSD is a thousand dollars

1:02:12

You cannot buy a MacBook Air with 16 gigs

1:02:14

of RAM for a thousand dollars you haven't been

1:02:16

able to ever And

1:02:18

it's a shame because that extra 8 gigs of RAM

1:02:21

is not that big a deal if you want a

1:02:23

MacBook Air with that I think you have to pay

1:02:25

an additional $300 which doesn't sound like a lot extra

1:02:27

but in a thousand dollar computer That's like a third

1:02:29

of the price you just added to go from 8

1:02:32

gigs of RAM to 16 gig and

1:02:34

your ssc is still tiny So

1:02:37

it doesn't seem like oh look there in the same ballpark

1:02:39

$300 strange dollars is nothing. It's

1:02:41

a big pump on a thousand dollar computer If

1:02:44

you want to go 16 512 that's 1400 on

1:02:47

the surface. Oh, it looks like Microsoft has

1:02:49

learned something about SSD pricing from Apple I

1:02:53

Need 200 gigs of SSD space does

1:02:55

not cost $400 But in Microsoft

1:02:57

and Apple and it does and so now the MacBook Air

1:02:59

is only $100 more expensive 1500

1:03:01

if you go 16 gig 1 terabyte Again,

1:03:04

there's only a hundred dollar price difference between the

1:03:06

MacBook Air and the surface the MacBook Air obviously

1:03:09

be $100 more expensive And if you go 32

1:03:11

gig 1 terabyte the MacBook Air is actually cheaper,

1:03:13

but you can't get the MacBook Air with 32 You

1:03:15

can only get it with 24 though with

1:03:17

$100 less expensive. So pricing wise

1:03:21

They are Similar to MacBook Air

1:03:23

price. That's their competition They undercut it significantly at

1:03:25

the low end like to be able to get

1:03:27

for a thousand dollars a machine with 16 gigs

1:03:29

of RAM That's the way the world should be

1:03:31

and it's only not that way because of Apple's

1:03:34

Stubborness about getting off eight gigs, but all

1:03:36

the rest of the prices look like

1:03:39

alright I see what you're you're pricing with that

1:03:41

you're pricing this like a MacBook Air all the

1:03:43

other makers who make these because I think It's

1:03:45

a whole bunch of PC makers to do presumably

1:03:47

will undercut them, but the Microsoft ones want

1:03:49

to be The good ones

1:03:52

again. This is I think this is fantastic

1:03:54

competition Finally, this is great.

1:03:56

I mean the the real I think

1:03:59

the problem here or the challenge here that Microsoft is

1:04:01

going to have, which I

1:04:03

think we'll get to in a moment, is Microsoft

1:04:06

is clearly trying to sell this to

1:04:09

MacBook Air customers. And I

1:04:11

think they will do a pretty good job

1:04:13

of giving Apple a run for their money

1:04:15

for certain target audiences. The question

1:04:17

is, Microsoft has tried

1:04:20

before to sell

1:04:22

good next generation ARM hardware,

1:04:26

but Microsoft's customers didn't want

1:04:28

it. Their customers

1:04:30

wanted something that was

1:04:32

what we always buy and cheap and easy

1:04:34

and works with everything. Because it turns out

1:04:36

that not every customer

1:04:38

base is the same and wants the same things

1:04:40

and has the same priorities. Microsoft

1:04:43

here is making a product line

1:04:46

that looks like it will actually

1:04:48

be pretty competitive with Apple customers,

1:04:50

but whether they can get their customers

1:04:53

to buy it is a very different story. Well, their customers

1:04:55

just want to be able to run their apps, and

1:04:57

I think that's the story they're telling them here. Because I

1:04:59

don't think, obviously, the pricing is out of whackiness. I think

1:05:02

people who like Windows PCs, and for example,

1:05:04

the corporate world, a lot of Windows PCs

1:05:06

get sold into the corporate world. All those

1:05:09

people have had to endure now, what, three

1:05:11

years of going to

1:05:13

meetings with their Mac using coworkers

1:05:17

and seeing just how much better battery life

1:05:19

the Mac users get and how much nicer

1:05:21

their laptops are. But they don't want a

1:05:23

Mac. They want a PC. They

1:05:25

just want it to be nice. They

1:05:29

say, OK, well, we can get you one of

1:05:31

these Windows RT laptops. They'd be like, oh, they're

1:05:33

slow, and they're worse. They're slow. The battery life

1:05:35

isn't even that good, and they have compatibility problems.

1:05:37

And so Microsoft, I think, is talking to those

1:05:39

people and saying, it's now safe for you to

1:05:41

buy a Windows laptop that's good like the MacBook

1:05:43

Air, and it will run all your stuff. That

1:05:45

is the thing that needs to get them over.

1:05:47

It's not so much the pricing, because, again,

1:05:49

there are cheaper brands to buy from than this. It's

1:05:52

the safety of saying, this will just work

1:05:54

just like your Windows laptop that you have

1:05:56

now. There's no excuses we have to make,

1:05:58

no compromise. Well, it's you

1:06:00

know, it gets good battery life, but you know

1:06:03

half is slow, but hey battery life like no,

1:06:05

it's faster It's like the m1 pitch. It's faster.

1:06:07

It runs all your old software and the battery

1:06:09

life is amazing It's an easy sell and

1:06:11

you know You're right that Microsoft is selling

1:06:13

to the people who are buying the high

1:06:15

end of that But Dell is gonna sell

1:06:17

PCs with similar specs at the low

1:06:20

end of that They're uglier cheaper, but you know

1:06:22

more appealing to people. So I think they have I Don't

1:06:25

think they're trying to like, you know, let's poach all

1:06:27

the Mac users or whatever I think they're just finally

1:06:30

trying to give all the Windows users who have been

1:06:32

suffering with inferior laptops since the introduction of the m1

1:06:35

To say now you can Now

1:06:38

you're free now. You could have a good laptop again Don't

1:06:40

even tell like don't even tell them there's an ARM CPU

1:06:43

in there They won't even need to know it just it

1:06:45

just runs all your stuff and

1:06:47

you don't need to know about all You know is my battery

1:06:49

life is better and my performance is better. It's the same pitch

1:06:51

as the m1 was over x86 so

1:06:54

let's talk compatibility because I think that is

1:06:57

the that's key here because like you're right that

1:07:00

That what everybody wants in the world is we want

1:07:02

to do things the way we've always done them. We

1:07:05

want to run the software We've always run we want

1:07:07

to have it work with all the tools We already

1:07:09

use all the things we already know we want it

1:07:11

to integrate with all of our enterprise systems We want

1:07:13

it to run all of our enterprise Software and have

1:07:15

all our enterprise licenses transfer over to it and we

1:07:18

want it to be really cheap and easily, you know

1:07:20

dealt with in a fleet that that's

1:07:22

what that's what Microsoft's customers want and So

1:07:25

does this actually deliver that in

1:07:27

the compatibility realm you think Yeah,

1:07:30

so their claim is that it's twice as

1:07:32

fast as their previous extremely bad emulation

1:07:37

They name-checked Rosetta they in the presentation.

1:07:39

They literally name-check Rosetta They said it's

1:07:41

you know, it's just as efficient as

1:07:43

apples Rosetta Like they're they're targeted

1:07:45

100% what Apple did with the m1 They've

1:07:48

got software makers on board even better than Apple

1:07:50

did because Microsoft actually knows how to talk to

1:07:52

third parties We're like the browser vendors have promised

1:07:54

our version of their stuff Photoshop is there obviously

1:07:56

office is there because Microsoft knows how to port

1:07:59

its own apps Apple like their

1:08:01

compatibility story is good. They put a claim in the

1:08:03

presentation that was like I've seen it They use both

1:08:06

87 and 90 because I think they're just rounding Then

1:08:09

this is 87 Microsoft believes 80

1:08:11

percent 87 percent of the

1:08:13

total app minutes spent on a copilot plus PC

1:08:15

will be inside Native app so they're not saying

1:08:17

that 80 percent of 87 percent

1:08:19

of the apps will have been ported They're saying look the

1:08:21

apps that people use every day 87 percent

1:08:24

of their time They're gonna be using a native app

1:08:26

But as we know from the M1 that doesn't even

1:08:28

matter if you have Rosetta caliber Emulation

1:08:31

the apps that aren't native unless their performance

1:08:33

critical people won't even notice right so their

1:08:35

claim and their demos Essentially

1:08:37

say this is an M1 situation Most

1:08:41

of the apps that you care about most of your day

1:08:43

is going to be spent in a native app We wait

1:08:45

sure reported our apps and the ones that aren't native you

1:08:47

won't even notice Like that

1:08:49

that's their pitch and unlike the hardware side

1:08:51

on the software side They can

1:08:54

deliver on that both by parting their software

1:08:56

because honestly Lots of people use Windows

1:08:58

use Microsoft software all at a time and by getting third

1:09:00

parties on board at which they seem to have Done a

1:09:02

pretty good job So, you

1:09:04

know, we'll see what the market thinks about and there are other wrinkles that

1:09:06

we got to a little bit but That's

1:09:09

what makes this time different It's well

1:09:11

two things one to have a good SOC

1:09:13

made by ex-apple people and two They actually

1:09:16

have a compatibility story that appears to be

1:09:18

Apple Calibre You know, they're confident when they're

1:09:20

literally name-checking like Rosetta They constantly said MacBook

1:09:22

Air they said Apple they said Rosetta You

1:09:25

don't throw out those names if

1:09:27

you don't invite those comparisons if you know, you're

1:09:29

gonna look terrible So they are at least confident

1:09:31

that they they have met that bar Indeed,

1:09:35

we should probably go back and talk

1:09:37

a little bit about specifics. The surface laptop

1:09:39

is 13.8 inches It is a

1:09:41

201 PPI screen at 120 Hertz or no, let's let's just stop there

1:09:48

You know in the PC world, they're not shy

1:09:50

about giving you technology that is modern. They don't

1:09:53

say oh, well This is the 13 inch low-end

1:09:56

laptop. So we're not gonna give them 120 Hertz

1:09:58

screen. That's a pro fee No,

1:10:01

they just give it to you because it's a

1:10:03

part that they can buy and it doesn't actually

1:10:05

cost that much more than the 60 Hertz part

1:10:07

so it has a slightly bigger screen than the

1:10:09

MacBook Air slightly lower PPI But

1:10:11

it's 120 Hertz. This is like a MacBook Air with

1:10:13

promotion and Apple parlors. Oh, and by the way They're

1:10:15

all touch screws a pencil support. Yeah, of

1:10:17

course. They are every single one of them Then

1:10:20

there's the 15-inch which is also 201 PPI This

1:10:24

is in comparison to the MacBook Air both of which

1:10:26

are 224 Points

1:10:28

per inch and is it

1:10:31

pickles or points in this context

1:10:33

points? Okay. There are two USB-C

1:10:35

ports which are USB 4 and

1:10:38

wouldn't you know it? There's one USB-A port

1:10:40

which is USB 3.1 on all of these.

1:10:42

Yeah, it is interesting that they didn't I

1:10:44

mean obviously the Back

1:10:46

where there was no thunderbolt right there USB on the MacBook Air as

1:10:48

well. No, I thought there was thunderbolt It's thunderbolt

1:10:50

everything's under bolt now everything everything after

1:10:52

the first the MacBook one everything everything

1:10:54

after the 12 inch was real thunderbolt

1:10:58

Thunderbolts is an interesting Apple

1:11:00

differentiator because I know

1:11:03

this is the whole USB for thing versus thunderbolt It's not

1:11:05

a big deal, but thunderbolt still seems to be a thing that

1:11:07

only Mac users really care about But

1:11:09

anyway, Microsoft does give you two ports plus that

1:11:11

a port with USB 3.1 for the people who

1:11:14

need it Indeed,

1:11:16

there's a headphone jack. They all

1:11:19

support three external 4k monitors plus

1:11:21

the laptop screen Let me tell

1:11:24

you of all the complaints. I've

1:11:26

heard about modern Apple

1:11:28

laptops I think the only one I've

1:11:30

heard with any regularity is what do

1:11:33

you mean? I can't run a second screen which I

1:11:35

think that was much and now you can close the

1:11:37

lid you want to run it Just close the lid

1:11:40

And so this and and again if you don't want

1:11:42

to watch this presentation Be assured that they

1:11:44

weren't just doing this is like an Apple

1:11:47

user will know what this means They were

1:11:49

calling out the MacBook like oh, yeah, little

1:11:51

4k monitors plus the laptop screen This

1:11:54

is because they know that this is the weakness of

1:11:56

the Mac where we talked about this for multiple generations

1:11:58

of the MacBook Air is this the? What more are they going

1:12:00

to do? They decided not to put the display drivers

1:12:02

forward. It actually is the hardware limitation. This is how they chose

1:12:04

to do a portion for power usage. All

1:12:08

these reasons why Apple didn't do this. And

1:12:10

Microsoft is capitalizing by saying, we

1:12:13

don't just support one external monitor, three

1:12:15

4K monitors plus the laptop screen at the same

1:12:17

time. Indeed.

1:12:19

There is Wi-Fi 7. There

1:12:22

are touch screens, as previously mentioned. It

1:12:24

goes up to 600 nits with quote-unquote

1:12:26

HDR, has WVision IQ. There

1:12:29

is no notch. They said that in

1:12:31

the presentation. Literally, they said, hey, our

1:12:34

camera is built into the frame of

1:12:36

the monitor. No notch. And

1:12:39

why are they saying no notch? Because

1:12:41

Apple's laptops have notches. They're calling out

1:12:43

every single thing that is weird or

1:12:45

bad or wrong about Wi-Fi 6. Does

1:12:48

it max have that? No, max don't have

1:12:50

Wi-Fi 6. We've got 7 rather. We have

1:12:52

6E because Apple has

1:12:54

not always been on the cutting edge of these

1:12:56

standards. This has been true forever for PCs. But

1:12:58

now this is like a PC worth paying attention

1:13:00

to. And it's got all that PC stuff. And

1:13:02

the PC stuff is, hey, whatever the latest standard

1:13:04

is for the stuff, even on the lowest end

1:13:06

laptop, of course it's got Wi-Fi 7 because that's

1:13:08

the current version of Wi-Fi. And where a PC and PCs

1:13:10

have the newest stuff. And then when you buy a new PC.

1:13:14

The screen which they claim is HDR. I'm like, really? They put an

1:13:16

HDR screen in this? No, it's 600 nits. No,

1:13:19

don't get too excited about the HDR. It's

1:13:21

HDR in the same way as the Mac Studio's display

1:13:25

is HDR. 600 nits is not HDR. By

1:13:28

the way, Dolby Vision IQ is the thing where, I mean,

1:13:31

again, Dolby Vision with 600

1:13:33

nits max. Anyway, Dolby Vision

1:13:35

IQ is the thing where it just does ambient

1:13:37

light sensing to adjust the thing. But

1:13:39

honestly, this is not a very bright screen. But it is 120 hertz.

1:13:43

It is the PPI is a

1:13:45

little low, 201 versus 224. The

1:13:48

resolution is a little bit lower than the MacBook Air. It's

1:13:50

2300 instead of 2500 across, right? So

1:13:53

this is kind of like a, the pixels are a little

1:13:55

chunkier. The screen is a little bit bigger. But

1:13:58

as Marco said, it's a touchscreen. phone support. 600

1:14:01

nits is not bad. And no

1:14:03

notch. And how did they do it with no notch?

1:14:05

They just made the bez a little bit thicker. It's

1:14:07

not that much thicker. Look at it. It's fine. Apple

1:14:09

could have done this, but they didn't. So yeah. This

1:14:11

next one kills me. There's a micro

1:14:13

SDXC card reader, but only on the 15 inch. Look

1:14:15

at that. You can put an SD card slot on

1:14:18

a MacBook Air. You believe that Apple? Has that ever

1:14:20

been done before? Oh, it has been done before on

1:14:22

the MacBook Air. On the, I believe the, didn't the

1:14:24

11 inch have it? I know

1:14:26

that 13 inch did. I think the 11

1:14:28

might have that. And again, we celebrated when

1:14:31

the SD card came to the MacBook Pro

1:14:33

line. And at the time I said, you know,

1:14:36

there is like, you could put this on the MacBook

1:14:38

Air, but like, we're just so happy to have it

1:14:40

on the MacBook Pro. Thank you, Apple. But here is

1:14:42

competitive pressure. Hey, in a MacBook Air class machine, can

1:14:44

you fit an SD card slot? Yeah, you can. Apple's

1:14:46

done it before. They can do it again. Microsoft just

1:14:49

did it only on the 15 inch. There

1:14:52

is a fan and there's a during firewall post

1:14:54

about this. There's a fan, which, you know, that's

1:14:56

fine. I don't, I'm not near as bothered by

1:14:58

this as I think you two are, but it

1:15:01

is there. Yeah, this is so

1:15:03

we'll, we'll start getting into this a little

1:15:05

bit now. Like the rumors, the Snapdragon X

1:15:07

thing was like, okay, it'll be competitive, but

1:15:09

it'll use more power. Oh, fans,

1:15:11

you know, like the, the, the different power

1:15:13

class of chip, like the direct comparison really

1:15:15

should be with the base MacBook Pro and

1:15:18

not the MacBook Air, not the fanless MacBook

1:15:20

Air. But as we'll

1:15:22

see, there's some conflicting info like out there,

1:15:25

Microsoft is clearly targeting the MacBook Air. They're saying this

1:15:27

is the MacBook Air class machine. It

1:15:29

does have a fan and the MacBook Air doesn't. So that's leaning

1:15:31

us a little bit in the direction of maybe this is using

1:15:34

a little bit more power than the MacBook Air is SSC. And

1:15:37

that's, that's what led me to say, okay, well, if

1:15:40

this thing really is using more power, let's

1:15:42

look at the battery size. Let's look at the battery

1:15:45

capacity because the claims they make about the battery life

1:15:47

are MacBook Air caliber, but maybe it just has a

1:15:49

bigger battery. Like maybe this is a more power hungry

1:15:51

SSC. They put a bigger

1:15:53

battery in it and that's how it can match the

1:15:55

MacBook Air in, in battery

1:15:57

life. But the battery's

1:16:00

sizes are almost exactly MacBook Air. So

1:16:02

in the 13-inch, it's 54 watt hours,

1:16:04

and the MacBook Air is 62.6. In

1:16:07

the 15-inch, it's 66 watt hours, and the MacBook Air is

1:16:09

66.5. Like these batteries,

1:16:11

it's like when car manufacturers

1:16:13

produce a car that competes with some other company's

1:16:16

car in the same sort

1:16:18

of model category, and you look at the specs, and

1:16:20

you're like, wow, the

1:16:22

wheelbase is one inch different. The rear seat

1:16:24

room is like one inch, like it's so

1:16:26

clear that they target each other, and they

1:16:28

just match each other's specs exactly, because they

1:16:30

don't want to be rejected in the market

1:16:32

because they fall down in one category. So

1:16:34

just whatever the Toyota Camry does, we're gonna

1:16:36

do, because we're making, a

1:16:38

cord Camry, whatever. Like you look at

1:16:40

these specs, and you're like, this is not near the airline limit of like

1:16:42

100 watt hours, so it's not like they all ended up at 100 because

1:16:44

they were at the limit. These specs,

1:16:46

they're targeting the MacBook Air. They put the

1:16:49

same size batteries in MacBook Air. So that

1:16:51

is, once again, arguing towards

1:16:53

that this SoC might be MacBook Air calburn

1:16:55

in terms of power efficiency. Yeah,

1:16:58

this is very promising for competition.

1:17:00

Again, I'm so excited about this.

1:17:03

I really

1:17:05

hope that Windows customers

1:17:07

actually start making this transition. For lots

1:17:09

of reasons, it's better for so many

1:17:12

reasons that they do this. And

1:17:14

number one for me is, this is

1:17:16

gonna be a really exciting competition. Indeed,

1:17:19

so continuing on, I don't even know what the source of

1:17:21

this is anymore. I think it was the bird. The bird

1:17:23

jar is what I think. Okay, for years,

1:17:25

the MacBook Air has been able to smoke arm

1:17:27

powered PC chips and Intel based ones too, except

1:17:29

this time around, the Surface pulled ahead on the

1:17:32

first test, then it won another test and

1:17:34

another after that. The results of these

1:17:36

tests are what Microsoft believes it's now in a

1:17:39

position to conquer the laptop market. So here we

1:17:41

go. Microsoft's claims for the Snapdragon

1:17:43

10 or X Elite, see, it's actually X,

1:17:46

I think, but I just said 10. Snapdragon

1:17:48

X Elite, up to 23% faster in

1:17:52

peak multi-threaded performance and up

1:17:54

to 58% faster in sustained

1:17:56

multi-threaded performance. Second spec you

1:17:59

read. what that spec says. Our

1:18:02

laptops have a fan. That's the

1:18:04

translation of that thing. Why is it

1:18:07

50% faster and sustained multi-threaded? Because the

1:18:09

MacBook Air thermal throttles. This

1:18:11

is the our laptop has a fan spec because it's

1:18:13

23% faster. We'll get to that in a little bit.

1:18:15

Like it has more cores than the M3. So okay.

1:18:18

Well, like I get it. It's, you know, that's not,

1:18:20

that's not much of a bragging right. Has more cores.

1:18:22

It's using more power during that time. I'm sure. Right?

1:18:24

58% faster and sustained multi-threaded. What

1:18:26

does that mean? It just means we have

1:18:28

a fan. They, they blow air on it.

1:18:31

So it doesn't throw throttle. That's why it's

1:18:33

crushing the MacBook Air. And which is, again,

1:18:35

I don't blame the MacBook Air for that.

1:18:37

I love that it's fanless. Apple has other

1:18:39

computers with fans that are better competition

1:18:41

for this, but that

1:18:43

is them literally calling out their fan

1:18:45

in a specific slide.

1:18:49

So getting numbers on these things, I was trying

1:18:51

to look up like the Geekbench. They put some

1:18:53

Geekbench numbers up in their presentation. It's hard to

1:18:55

find Geekbench numbers for the M4. There's tons of,

1:18:57

tons of entries. Like what do you mean it's

1:18:59

hard? There's tons of entries, but they vary so

1:19:01

much. So I'm like, well, what is like, is

1:19:03

one of these things sitting on top of a

1:19:05

block of ice that's cooling it? Are these real

1:19:07

numbers? So I'm, you know, the

1:19:10

same thing with the Snapdragon thing. We just have preliminary numbers

1:19:12

for Microsoft people that don't have these in their hands. So

1:19:14

take all this with a tiny grain of salt, but here's

1:19:17

what the Geekbench things look like. So the strap

1:19:19

Snapdragon X Elite, this is a 12 core CPU.

1:19:21

It's 2,700 single, 14,000 multi, right?

1:19:24

The M3 is an eight

1:19:29

core CPU. So the fact that it's, oh, we

1:19:31

get 23% faster and multi-threaded. Well, you got a

1:19:33

lot more cores there. So that's not surprising. And

1:19:35

again, the M4 isn't out in the MacBook Air

1:19:37

yet. So this is the time to pounce with

1:19:39

your comparison, but the M3 still beats it in

1:19:41

single core 3,100 compared to 2,700 and multi-core it's

1:19:44

11,000 versus 14,000.

1:19:48

The M4 ish modified

1:19:50

by, this is in an iPad, yada, yada,

1:19:52

yada. The M4 just crushes all of this

1:19:54

in single core. We talked about

1:19:56

this before last, last show, I think we said it was like

1:19:58

3,700 single core, which would be the champ for

1:20:01

any Mac ever. Now the numbers are in

1:20:03

the 4000s if you look at Geekbench. 4000

1:20:06

single core versus 2700. The

1:20:08

M4 is smooshing the Snapdragon

1:20:11

X Elite. But again, the M4 is not

1:20:13

in the MacBook Air, so fair comparison. And

1:20:15

multi-core, the M4 is a 10-core SoC, the

1:20:19

CPU part of it. 10-core

1:20:21

versus 12-core Snapdragon X Elite,

1:20:23

it's basically matching it. So I

1:20:26

think the Snapdragon X Elite is probably

1:20:29

M3 performance caliber,

1:20:31

not as good in single core, a little bit

1:20:33

better in multi-core. It's got to

1:20:35

end up using more power than the M3 because it's got more cores,

1:20:37

so when you crank up all those 12 cores, it's going to use

1:20:39

more than the 8-core. But

1:20:42

the M4 essentially bests it with two fewer

1:20:44

cores in multi-core and

1:20:48

crushes it in single core. So I think

1:20:50

Apple is not like, oh, they've made the

1:20:52

SoC that's going to crush us, but what

1:20:56

they have done is they've made a competitive SoC.

1:20:58

It is competitive. It

1:21:01

specs, its performance look good. It's power

1:21:03

envelope. If you are to believe Microsoft's

1:21:06

battery life claims, its

1:21:09

power envelope is also competitive. I think when they

1:21:11

test this, they're going to find that the Apple

1:21:13

ones still best it in battery life because the

1:21:15

batteries are the same size and it's clear that

1:21:17

the M3 uses less power, if only because it's

1:21:19

8-core versus 12-core. So watch for the benchmarks when

1:21:21

people get these in their hands. But

1:21:24

I think essentially that the rumors about the

1:21:26

Snapdragon X were true, that it has

1:21:28

comparable performance, but it uses a little bit more

1:21:31

power. I think that the tests are going to

1:21:33

bear that out. And because these laptops don't have

1:21:35

bigger batteries, they're going to get slightly worse battery

1:21:37

life than the MacBook Air. But on

1:21:39

the other hand, they will beat them in multi-core because they have

1:21:42

a fan similar to thermal throttle. Indeed.

1:21:44

All right, we already talked about

1:21:46

compatibility, then third party support. Many

1:21:48

of the biggest apps now natively

1:21:50

support ARM chips. Photoshop, Dropbox,

1:21:52

Zoom, Spotify, and other top entertainment apps like

1:21:54

Prime and Hulu are all native ARM 64

1:21:56

apps now. Google

1:21:58

and many other browser makers are moving to ARM 64,

1:22:01

a native version of Chrome launched recently, followed by

1:22:03

Opera just last week. Then

1:22:05

also Firefox Vivaldi, Brave, and

1:22:08

Microsoft Edge are all ARM

1:22:10

64 native. Overall

1:22:12

Microsoft believes, and we talked about this a minute

1:22:14

ago, that 87% of total app minutes spent on

1:22:16

these Copilot

1:22:18

Plus PCs will be inside native apps. And

1:22:21

then we also should mention that there

1:22:23

is a Microsoft approved, it's not like

1:22:25

sponsored by Microsoft, but it's a Microsoft

1:22:27

approved website that tracks how Windows games

1:22:29

games specifically play on ARM. This

1:22:32

is works on woa.com. What is WA? Windows on

1:22:34

ARM? Windows on ARM. It's a terrible name. Works

1:22:36

on Windows on ARM. This is the website that

1:22:38

I want to be keeping an eye on because

1:22:40

one of the reasons I want ARM PCs, I

1:22:42

want all those PC games to be ported to

1:22:44

ARM. Now this is a tough sell, I understand

1:22:47

that, because lots of PC games are old, they're

1:22:49

never gonna get ported, you know, whatever. But like

1:22:51

going forward I would love it if

1:22:53

modern PC games were cross-compiled for

1:22:56

x86 and ARM. And this website is tracking,

1:22:58

hey if you buy one of these ARM

1:23:00

PCs, you can check if this

1:23:03

game runs natively on ARM. And if it doesn't, it

1:23:05

might still run fine and emulation as many Mac games

1:23:08

did when Apple made the transition.

1:23:10

But yeah, it's not as

1:23:12

if game makers are entirely ignoring ARM. We'll

1:23:14

see how that goes as time goes on.

1:23:17

Indeed. And then

1:23:19

AI. These co-pilot plus PCs are equipped

1:23:21

with a neural processing unit from Qualcomm

1:23:23

that hits 45 trillion operations per second

1:23:26

of compute for AI tasks. That results

1:23:28

in more AI task operations per watt

1:23:30

than a MacBook Air M3 and Nvidia's

1:23:32

RTX 4060. The M4 is 38 tops,

1:23:34

M3 is 18 tops.

1:23:37

We already discussed. But again, the 8 versus

1:23:40

16 bed tops is a crappy

1:23:42

number. That's the crappy way to talk

1:23:44

about these things. Indeed. But here we are.

1:23:47

They did a few demonstrations. They did a

1:23:49

demo of a four person, I don't know

1:23:51

if it was literally zoom, it probably was

1:23:54

Teams, but a four person chat

1:23:56

or a conference, if you will, a

1:23:58

meeting and everyone was speaking at a

1:24:00

language and it was translating the, it

1:24:02

was subtitling basically live as they were

1:24:04

talking. It was very impressive. And

1:24:06

then they also did a draw along image

1:24:08

generation thing where a woman drew like some

1:24:11

mountains and some flowers and you could crank

1:24:13

how creative the AI got. Like, did it

1:24:16

stick with basically what she drew or did

1:24:18

it get totally off the wall? And they

1:24:20

were, the draw along thing, I mean, I'm

1:24:22

not an artist, that was like, yeah, whatever.

1:24:25

But the multi-language live translation, that was pretty

1:24:27

slick. Yeah. So again, these

1:24:29

things are called co-pilot plus PCs.

1:24:32

And these are the features they demonstrated. There

1:24:35

are obviously way more. There's way more things to

1:24:37

co-pilot does. And there's some other demos, but they

1:24:40

were leaning heavily on like the live translation and the draw

1:24:42

along stuff. In Microsoft build, they

1:24:44

talked about this more, but the pitch

1:24:47

for what they've done with Windows to

1:24:49

add AI to it is

1:24:51

that there's an API, there's

1:24:53

libraries they can use or whatever. But essentially Apple,

1:24:56

I keep saying Apple, what Microsoft said was that

1:24:58

they are running 40 different

1:25:00

AI models within Windows

1:25:03

to provide all these services. It's not just like one

1:25:05

large language model that they're running locally. It's not like

1:25:07

they send all requests out to open AI. They're

1:25:10

running 40 different models locally, plus also

1:25:12

sending stuff out to presumably open AI

1:25:14

things. And there's like, there's a, you

1:25:16

know, software story for application developers to

1:25:19

do this type of stuff. This

1:25:22

is kind of, this

1:25:24

kind of sets the bar for Apple, because

1:25:26

they're adding features to Windows that if you

1:25:28

want to make an application on Windows and

1:25:30

you want to leverage some of these features

1:25:32

that are available to you, and then Windows

1:25:34

itself has these things woven throughout it where

1:25:37

it's, you know, you've seen so many AI branded

1:25:40

things where it's like, in

1:25:42

some random application, there's a

1:25:44

text box where you can send a string and we'll

1:25:46

send it to chat GPT and tell you what it

1:25:49

sent back or send it to an image trainer and

1:25:51

tell you what it sent back. There's even that whole

1:25:53

thing with like the Logitech mouse drivers adding, oh, if

1:25:55

it's featured in the mouse driver, click the mouse button

1:25:57

and we'll open a text box wherever your cursor is.

1:25:59

And you can send send a message to chat.gpt that

1:26:01

is so sort of bolt

1:26:03

on not understanding what the value might be. Microsoft

1:26:06

is trying to say, here are

1:26:08

the things you could do that you couldn't

1:26:10

do before. Now any audio that plays anywhere

1:26:12

on the system, because again, they make windows

1:26:14

so they can make this happen, any audio

1:26:16

anywhere on the system in any app, you

1:26:18

can just say turn on live

1:26:21

translation so it subtitles this and it doesn't

1:26:23

do every language. I think it translates everything

1:26:25

to English. It supports like 40 languages, blah,

1:26:27

blah, blah. But that's an OS level feature

1:26:29

that apps don't have to add support for

1:26:31

or whatever. It just exists on the system.

1:26:34

That's the type of thing that we were hoping,

1:26:36

that we hope Apple will do with its rolling

1:26:39

AI out. And it's not just like, oh, we just have

1:26:41

one model and we run everything through it and it does

1:26:43

what it does. They have many models working in tandem. So

1:26:45

anything with a draw long thing, you have to give it

1:26:47

a prompt and then you start drawing and it copies it

1:26:49

and this is a questionable usefulness. That's

1:26:52

a little bit more likely to send something to an image

1:26:54

generation. But again, there are APIs

1:26:56

for that. I'm

1:26:59

sure at Build they had way more story

1:27:01

on the AI angle, but for laptops that

1:27:04

are again branded as AI PCs, the

1:27:06

part that at least everyone on this show is most

1:27:09

excited about has nothing to do with the AI and

1:27:11

everything to do with, they look like they're good laptops.

1:27:14

Finally, since the M1 came out, PC

1:27:16

laptops have been not good compared to

1:27:18

everything that Apple makes. And

1:27:21

now, this line of laptops appear to be

1:27:23

good. They really do

1:27:25

look impressive. I'm excited about

1:27:27

both aspects though. When

1:27:29

I look at AI features of

1:27:32

various platforms so far, Google had their vaporware

1:27:34

keynote where they demoed a whole bunch of

1:27:36

stuff that you can't use. I'm

1:27:38

sure Apple's going to give us a similarly vapor-y keynote

1:27:41

in a couple of weeks. But Apple will ship the

1:27:43

stuff that it shows probably, maybe in spring. Yeah, I

1:27:45

have a feeling a lot of Apple's announcements are probably

1:27:47

going to be like later this year and coming next

1:27:49

year, like a lot of that. But

1:27:52

I have not seen a ton of

1:27:55

quote AI features that actually hold

1:27:57

up in practice and reality. that

1:28:00

are really compelling. But I have

1:28:02

seen some, and for every

1:28:04

person, it's only going to take like, you

1:28:06

know, one or two of those really killer

1:28:08

features before they're like, oh, I have to

1:28:11

have that. Like, I will

1:28:13

buy new hardware or possibly even change

1:28:15

platforms just to get that one thing

1:28:17

that is very high value to me.

1:28:20

And that's why I really hope Apple's taking

1:28:22

this seriously, because this is going to have

1:28:24

a lot of disruption. It already is doing

1:28:26

some level of disruption, and it's only going

1:28:29

to get more so as the platform integrates.

1:28:31

Because like, here's what's going to happen.

1:28:33

Google is going to go all

1:28:36

in on LLM-based

1:28:38

and generative-based features

1:28:40

in Android, system-wide.

1:28:43

Microsoft is going all in

1:28:46

on AI things in Windows,

1:28:48

system-wide. Apple

1:28:51

is going to face a lot of pressure to

1:28:53

do that same thing in their OSs because, you

1:28:56

know, the system integration is where so

1:28:58

much of this value can get unlocked.

1:29:01

There's a lot of amazing functionality that

1:29:03

people will not only really

1:29:06

enjoy and will very highly value,

1:29:08

but they'll come to expect it. Imagine

1:29:10

if you had a phone today, if

1:29:13

you wanted to make a phone platform

1:29:15

today that didn't have a basic

1:29:17

voice assistant functionality. Like, every platform

1:29:19

has had voice assistants now for so

1:29:21

long, people take it for granted.

1:29:23

People assume, of course, I can talk to my

1:29:25

phone, and it'll try to make sense of what

1:29:27

I said and do something. That

1:29:30

same expectation is

1:29:32

going to arise in phone

1:29:35

and PC operating systems, whether

1:29:37

Apple makes it there or not with theirs. And

1:29:40

if they don't start matching some

1:29:42

of those features in compelling ways,

1:29:45

they're going to fall behind, and they're going to start losing people,

1:29:47

and they're going to have a hard time attracting new people. That's

1:29:50

why this is disruptive, even though

1:29:52

I think we can all look at a lot of these

1:29:54

features that are out there today and say, yeah, that kind

1:29:56

of sucks, or that thing they did, that failed, or that

1:29:59

gave them a wrong answer. Yeah, that's

1:30:01

going to happen. It's going to keep happening. But

1:30:04

not everything fails and not everything sucks and not

1:30:06

everything is wrong. Some of

1:30:08

those things, everyone is throwing so much spaghetti

1:30:10

at the wall right now because there is

1:30:12

so much value to be had. And yeah,

1:30:15

most of it's not going to turn into anything. Most

1:30:17

of it's going to flop. Most of it is going

1:30:19

to suck or fail or be better done with simpler

1:30:21

tools. But there are going to

1:30:23

be some of those things that stick. It's going to

1:30:26

happen. It's already starting to happen. So to

1:30:28

me, what is exciting is seeing

1:30:31

Google and Microsoft go straight

1:30:33

for OS integration, go right for

1:30:35

the jugular, go right – like make Apple

1:30:38

do this at OS level. Make Apple integrate

1:30:40

all this good stuff into Siri. The

1:30:42

crown jewel is like get this

1:30:45

into Siri. Whether Apple is

1:30:47

doing that I think remains a huge

1:30:50

open question. I don't think anybody has any solid

1:30:52

rumors or intel either direction on that. We've only

1:30:55

heard little bits and pieces like, oh, they might

1:30:57

be improving it. There is. We'll get to it

1:30:59

in an hour time. Oh,

1:31:01

good. Okay. Because that to me

1:31:03

is like all this stuff wants

1:31:05

to be OS level

1:31:07

integrated. And in the

1:31:09

phone especially, it all wants to be integrated into

1:31:12

the system voice assistant. And

1:31:14

Siri is just dying for this and

1:31:16

I hope Apple knows that and has already

1:31:19

started taking lots of action in that direction.

1:31:21

But until then, we're going to see some

1:31:23

really exciting stuff for Microsoft and Google and

1:31:25

that's awesome as Apple fans again.

1:31:27

That's great for us not only because they're going

1:31:29

to do stuff that Apple won't and can't for

1:31:31

a long time, but then that

1:31:33

will force Apple to get better on their end. That

1:31:35

will make for great stuff for everybody. So again, if

1:31:38

you look at this AI stuff and say, ah, nobody

1:31:40

needs any of that, trust

1:31:42

me, that's going to be a short-sighted view. This

1:31:44

is not cryptocurrency. This is real. This

1:31:47

actually has real value to more people.

1:31:50

It is similarly inefficient in terms of

1:31:52

energy resource usage, which we should get

1:31:54

to. But there

1:31:57

is real value here that is being created whether

1:31:59

you're on this. train or not. So just

1:32:02

be ready for it. And I hope Apple

1:32:04

is. I think I mean, obviously, we don't

1:32:06

know what Apple is going to put out because WDC hasn't come

1:32:09

yet. But I think the rumored Apple

1:32:11

approach here and what I expect them to do

1:32:13

is a comfortable position for Apple. Because as you

1:32:15

noted, like Google, Microsoft are throwing everything against the

1:32:17

wall. I think the the

1:32:19

quote unquote AI features that

1:32:21

will be compelling that will stick that will become

1:32:24

the new normal are essentially the

1:32:26

ones that if you showed them to

1:32:28

somebody, they would have no idea that it's AI branded

1:32:30

at all. So to give an example that essentially everybody

1:32:32

has now, background removal in photos,

1:32:34

Apple's had that on his last two versions

1:32:36

of its OS, right? That's

1:32:38

touted as an AI feature powered by neural

1:32:41

engine, blah, blah, blah. But from

1:32:43

a practical perspective, people using it don't have

1:32:45

to know or care anything about AI, they

1:32:47

just know, and it's, you know, this will

1:32:49

be differentiated for these copile plus PCs. I'm

1:32:52

just used to the idea that anytime I see

1:32:54

an image, I can tear the person off of

1:32:56

the background, right? So it just becomes a feature

1:32:58

that I expect to exist. And if somebody buys

1:33:00

a copile plus PC, and they've never used this

1:33:02

ability before, and now they have the ability to

1:33:04

easily separate people from the background or remove objects

1:33:06

from the images, or just some other things that

1:33:08

people have done with like Adobe's new Lightroom has,

1:33:10

you know, everyone has that now. And

1:33:13

yeah, they branded with AI or whatever. But users are

1:33:15

just like, oh, this is now a thing I can

1:33:17

do with my computer. So if you have a copile

1:33:19

plus PC, and you're used to anytime system wide that

1:33:21

you see an image, you can pull the person off

1:33:23

the background. And then you try

1:33:25

to use your co workers, Intel powered Windows

1:33:27

laptop that they bought at the same time

1:33:29

you got the copile plus PC. And you

1:33:31

literally can't do that because I believe Microsoft

1:33:34

is gating some of these features Apple style

1:33:36

on the presence of the NPU. Like,

1:33:38

oh, we could do it with the Intel things and

1:33:41

it'll be slower and yada yada. But let's artificially semi

1:33:43

not really artificially gate this on the NPU. You're

1:33:45

going to be like, well, your PC is broken.

1:33:48

It's going to feel like I do on my

1:33:50

Intel on this some feature that Intel Mac when

1:33:52

it's a feature that comes out that's only available

1:33:54

on Apple Silicon Macs, you know what I mean? Some

1:33:57

of it's legit, some of it's not legit, but it's a way

1:34:00

to get people to say like I

1:34:02

want a PC that can do that because they

1:34:04

just expect it to be done. The multi-language translation

1:34:07

is that AI large line. You don't need to

1:34:09

know how that's implemented. You just know oh in

1:34:12

the new version of Windows anywhere there's audio

1:34:14

I can see it subtitled in any app

1:34:16

with no support from it. That doesn't look

1:34:18

like an AI feature. That's not you drawing

1:34:20

a picture in AI completing it. That's not

1:34:22

you chatting with a large language model like

1:34:24

it's your friend. That is just

1:34:26

a feature of the operating system and

1:34:29

you don't have to know that they're using a large

1:34:31

language model or if they're doing it on device or

1:34:33

if they're sending it out like you don't have to

1:34:35

know any of that. It just becomes like the status

1:34:37

quo like kind of how we all you know give

1:34:39

Apple examples from Apple's operating system. Oh now anywhere there's

1:34:41

text in an image on a Mac you

1:34:44

can pull it out because that's a

1:34:46

feature Apple added. What did they use to implement?

1:34:48

We don't care. You just eventually get used to

1:34:50

the idea that in the system-wide image viewer if

1:34:52

there's text in an image you can select it

1:34:54

and it will try to OCR it. There have

1:34:57

been third-party products of that before but you just

1:34:59

get used to that being a feature. I think

1:35:01

that's where Apple is going to concentrate. My

1:35:04

big question is and we'll get to again maybe

1:35:06

in overtime is what about the things that clearly

1:35:08

are AI where you draw you describe a picture

1:35:10

and it draws it for you. You're chatting with

1:35:12

a chatbot or whatever. What is the

1:35:14

utility of those? Well Apple feel like it has to compete

1:35:17

in that area but like to your point

1:35:19

Marco about these things being useful. These are just

1:35:21

going to be features of an operating system that

1:35:23

we just assume that every Mac

1:35:25

and PC can do and it's already happening.

1:35:27

We just don't notice because the branding isn't

1:35:29

as in your face but under

1:35:31

the covers a lot of these translation for

1:35:33

example I think the translation is using LMS

1:35:35

to do translation and the background

1:35:38

image processing is using the AI powered

1:35:40

image whatever stuff like those

1:35:42

are the features that I think will stick. I

1:35:45

have a lot of questions about the chat GPT type

1:35:47

things even though they get all the press like oh

1:35:49

that's what AI means. That's not

1:35:51

the most slam

1:35:53

dunk sure thing AI powered

1:35:57

features and Microsoft and Google

1:35:59

probably. going to do them all. And the bad

1:36:01

ones will fade away and the good ones will stick. Apple

1:36:04

thus far only been doing the features

1:36:06

that are clearly useful

1:36:08

and will stick. The ones they've already implemented that

1:36:10

I mentioned already, they called

1:36:12

them ML, but the branding wasn't that big of a

1:36:14

deal. But the bottom is they're useful features that are

1:36:16

Max that we all just get used to existing. And

1:36:18

if they went away, we would be sad about them.

1:36:21

And there is some quote unquote, AI, ML tech behind

1:36:24

them. So it's legit. So I think that's what Apple is

1:36:26

going to end up doing is just

1:36:28

do the features that stick and

1:36:30

let everyone else throw the spaghetti at the wall and

1:36:32

they'll just pay attention to what actually does stick. Well,

1:36:35

and again, like you can look all over the system, you

1:36:37

can see so many features that are

1:36:40

already there now, but that could be

1:36:42

done better with an

1:36:44

LN based approach. We were talking about the

1:36:46