0:06

Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices

0:09

of black women unite. I'm

0:11

your host, Tiffany Frost. Tiffany

0:13

Frost. Tiffany, we gather a season elder

0:16

myself as the middle generation, and

0:18

a vibrant young soul for engaging

0:20

intergenerational conversations, prepared

0:22

to engage or.

0:23

Hear perspectives that no one else

0:25

is happy. You know how we do.

0:28

We create mess, creates that creates.

0:32

Hi, everybody, I'm Tiffany Cross and I'm your host

0:35

of Across Generations. All right, we

0:37

have an exciting show coming up, and I want

0:39

to start by saying how important

0:41

black fathers are in our

0:44

lives. Now listen. I am

0:46

very aware that the media often gets

0:48

it wrong and portrays this myst of the

0:50

absentee black father, and we know the

0:53

data does not support this. A

0:55

study supported by the Center for Disease Control,

0:57

members of Congress, and the distinguished gentlemen of

0:59

them Mega Sci Fi Fraternity Incorporated, found

1:02

that black fathers are actually, regardless

1:04

of marital or socioeconomic status, more

1:07

involved in their children's lives than any

1:09

other racial group. So for all

1:11

the black dads out there who are doing the damn

1:14

thing, listen, brother, we salute you. So

1:16

now that we've gotten that out of the land, acknowledge

1:18

that I do want to acknowledge that

1:20

there is another side of this coin,

1:22

and that is how those of us who grew

1:24

up with out fathers for so many reasons which

1:26

we'll can into, we want to have that discussion

1:29

now. For me personally, I was definitely

1:31

a daddy's girl. My father treated me like

1:33

a princess. But honey, Papa

1:35

was a rolling stone. He and my mother would never marry.

1:38

They obviously say together long enough to produce me

1:40

and then it was over. And I really don't have a

1:42

recollection of them being in a relationship.

1:44

They had a relationship with each other, but they were not in a romantic

1:47

relationship with each other. But my dad was always

1:49

around. In fact, every Christmas Eve he would

1:51

sleep on our sofa so he could be there with

1:53

me in the morning when I opened my gifts. He

1:55

drove a motorcycle. He picked

1:58

me up whenever I has and he kicked it. And

2:00

he never told me I couldn't go and my father

2:02

were going to a cabaret. This is like an adult

2:05

byob party. He'd take me right

2:07

along with him, whether it was appropriate or not. He

2:09

works in the city of Cleveland in a variety of rolls,

2:12

painting streets and like driving big machines.

2:14

He was hilarious. He was the life of

2:17

a party and he never had any judgment for anyone.

2:19

He used to give, like you know, those guys on the corner,

2:22

he would give them liquor. Women on the corner,

2:24

he would give them food. He was a great

2:26

dad, but my father had a drinking

2:28

problem. He drank a lot every single

2:30

day. And while he created a loving

2:32

environment for me, I really can't say that it

2:34

was always appropriate. One of my

2:36

earliest memories is sitting on my father's lap

2:39

while he was in a cipher with his friends and

2:41

they told him, like, hey, man, maybe you should put your daughter

2:43

to bed. And my dad said, my daughter ain't

2:45

gotta go nowhere. She want to sit right here on my

2:47

lap. She's cool and she's going to know

2:50

everything about life. So when these knuckleheads

2:52

come along and try to play her, she will be

2:54

ready. And they were rolling the weed and

2:57

my dad asked, baby, tell him was

2:59

this My little five year old self said,

3:01

joint, this was

3:04

my life. But the liquor had

3:06

him in his grips. I remember

3:08

him vomiting blood. He went in and out of

3:10

the hospital, and so one day he went in and he didn't

3:13

come out. He died of cirrhosis of

3:15

the liver when I was eleven years old, and

3:17

I feel that absence deeply now,

3:19

just as I did then. So we talk a

3:21

lot about daddy issues, and I want

3:24

to invite you into this discussion,

3:26

if you're so compelled, participate in the discussion

3:28

as well. In our comments, I do read them,

3:30

but I think it's an important conversation to

3:32

have whether you have your father in your

3:34

life or not, because we're going to talk about the

3:36

relationship. So let's get into it. Doctor

3:39

Joy Ellington is a mother of three. She's sixty

3:41

four. She di a divorcee who currently

3:43

works in the healthcare field, assisting underprivileged

3:46

persons obtained health insurance. She

3:48

was born in Alabama, raised in California,

3:50

and the relationship with her father was strained

3:53

her entire life, and even though he

3:55

was not present, she found herself constantly

3:57

seeking his approval even

4:00

up until his death two years ago. And

4:02

we also have with us Ariel b. She's a thirty

4:04

three year old medical coder and podcast host

4:07

of this two show passed she has

4:09

never met her biological father and has spent

4:11

many years searching for him. As

4:13

a mother of five, she finds it very difficult

4:15

to relate to her children who seek a father

4:17

figure, due to her not feeling she really needed

4:20

that growing up. She is, currently, however,

4:22

realizing how the absence of a father

4:25

may have caused how she navigated her

4:27

relationship with men as an adult,

4:29

which I think is something we can all relate

4:31

to. So I thank you ladies for being

4:33

here. Thank you, and I'm really

4:35

excited to have this conversation because you

4:38

know, when the two people in your life who

4:40

are supposed to love you the most, your mother and your

4:42

father, when those relationships

4:44

are strained or go awry, it

4:47

impacts how we live our entire lives

4:49

as adults.

4:51

So doctor Joy, I will starting with you. Tell

4:53

me what was the relationship with

4:55

your father. It was interesting

4:59

in that mother and father divorced

5:01

when I was one, so that's very

5:03

early. And at that time,

5:07

my mother and I moved to California, so

5:09

I lived there for several years

5:12

before my grandmother got sick. So

5:15

my relationship with my father

5:17

wasn't in existence. But then when

5:19

I went back to Mobile, then we

5:22

did have a relationship. He would come and pick me

5:24

up every weekend, something similar

5:26

to what you had with your father. But

5:30

then when I moved back to California, then it began

5:32

to be strained again, somewhat

5:36

impacted by my stepmother. There

5:38

were some conflicts there. When

5:41

I would go back to Mobile for visits,

5:44

he was ever present, so it was like if

5:46

we were in each other's company, there

5:48

was a relationship. When I was

5:51

out of sight, it was like I was out

5:53

of mind. That was the strain

5:55

that was there.

5:56

Yeah, well, who was responsible

5:59

for that? He proactively

6:01

call you and see you or as a child, were

6:03

you adult eyes in a way where

6:05

you were the one keeping that relationship

6:07

alive.

6:08

I would say I was the one that was keeping that relationship

6:11

alive while I was living in California.

6:14

I mean, it's hard to kind of comprehend that

6:16

as a child. But how did that make you

6:19

feel that? I guess did you feel

6:21

like this relationship was not viable on its own

6:24

if you were not the one keeping it alive?

6:26

And if so, how did that make you feel?

6:28

That's very challenging and

6:30

the reason why I'm saying is very challenging. Many

6:33

times, when people go through a divorce, one

6:36

of the parents or both parents

6:38

often feed a lot of negativity

6:40

into the relationship, speaking

6:43

about one parent versus another. But

6:45

my mother didn't do that. My mother

6:48

was very kind and that whatever

6:50

your father is, he will reveal

6:52

it. And so that was always the

6:54

message in the back of my head that

6:57

I'm going to see who you are, who

6:59

I am to you, and who you are to

7:01

me. You will demonstrate that. So

7:05

building that relationship or continuously

7:07

making the conversation that was

7:09

frustrating because I felt that he should

7:12

have. However, I

7:14

had another savior, per

7:16

se, and that was my stepfather, So

7:18

he stepped into the role. Though

7:21

I didn't feel abandoned. I had

7:24

some issues of abandonment of why

7:26

not me, But looking at the dynamics

7:29

of his relationship with his

7:31

wife and my brothers, that

7:34

was different.

7:34

Yeah. Can I ask you a question, Yes,

7:37

your stepfather stepped in and loved

7:39

you appropriately like he was present

7:42

in your life. Oh, by far still

7:44

is today. I feel like sometimes as mothers we

7:46

remarry hoping that

7:48

that void gets filled. Did that feel

7:50

the void of your father being absent or now?

7:52

Oh, definitely, because he

7:55

loved me. I'll give you a story,

7:58

and this is very funny. I

8:00

wanted to go to a dance that was taking

8:03

place at a club, and my mother said,

8:05

definitely, you can't go. And I said, I know what to

8:07

do. I'll go to my stepfather and I'll

8:09

ask him.

8:10

And he told me. He said no, you can't

8:12

go. And I was so angry

8:15

and I was so hurt. I began to cry,

8:17

and he just held me and

8:19

said, baby, that's just not the place

8:21

for you to go. That's the It's

8:24

not that I don't trust you, I don't trust

8:26

them. So he stepped in in a different

8:29

manner, or he stepped in as

8:31

that father father figure to secure

8:33

me of understanding. It wasn't

8:36

just a no, it was I'm protecting

8:38

you for the rest of your life. How old

8:40

were you, oh,

8:44

fourteen.

8:46

That's why I think it's so important to acknowledge

8:48

that, yes, black men are our presents

8:50

in our lives, whether they're a biological father

8:52

or not. There are fathers who are

8:54

out there doing great things. And I hate

8:56

this narrative of this like absentee

8:59

black father, because they do exist.

9:01

But I'm happy that you brought this up because

9:04

your fatherhood story is different,

9:06

I think from doctor Joy. So tell

9:09

me your relationship with your father

9:11

and your story. Okay,

9:13

So I have a mother and a father,

9:16

and until I was like twenty

9:18

six, twenty seven, my

9:20

understanding of them being my parents was

9:23

that they were my parents. I didn't find out

9:25

so I was twenty six that was adopted.

9:28

So that so neither

9:30

of your parents are your biological parent, either one

9:33

neither one of them. But

9:35

growing up, I did not know that I was adopted

9:37

by black people. I think it was different. I was like an

9:39

Asian household, but everyone

9:42

was Caucasian. They were not yeah, And

9:44

I mean my grandmother, my mother always said Jesus

9:46

makes everyone different. And when you were in a big black

9:48

family, there are different shades of black. So

9:51

it wasn't uncommon. Some of my cousins have the same

9:53

mother and father and there is one that's lighter span complexion

9:56

and one that's not.

9:57

Yeah.

9:58

So I didn't look around it and say anything. We

10:00

were all African American everyone,

10:02

so I did not question it. Ever, I

10:04

wasn't loved wrong. I wasn't I

10:07

didn't spend like the first five years in foster

10:09

care. I was adopted from birth so within

10:11

forty eight hours I was there in their custody.

10:15

So it wasn't until I got to be

10:17

twenty six twenty seven then I figured

10:19

out that they were not my biological parents.

10:26

How did that feel at twenty seven,

10:28

twenty six, twenty seven, to

10:30

have your entire worlds disrupted?

10:33

You know?

10:35

I kind of felt like the family secret. I

10:37

felt like someone or something along

10:39

the way thought that I wasn't capable of understanding

10:42

that information. I felt like I

10:44

was belittled or maybe thought

10:47

to not be able to understand, kind of like it's

10:50

too much for her. By then twenty

10:52

six twenty seven, I was married, I had four

10:54

kids. That means every single time

10:57

I gave birth or went to the doctor, I checked

10:59

out health and that had nothing to do with

11:01

me, and everyone thought that was

11:03

appropriate. So I think

11:05

that's where I kind of felt slighted. I felt like

11:07

someone should have stepped in and said something,

11:10

even for the health of me or my kids. Anything

11:12

could have happened, and no one thought

11:15

was the same thing to me.

11:16

I don't think about the health aspect of it, yes, but

11:18

I think that there it was depending

11:21

on the time. Yes, I

11:23

have a brother that's the same he

11:26

did. He was unaware that

11:28

my stepfather was not his father because

11:31

my stepfather came on board when he was

11:33

one. That's the only daddy that he's

11:35

ever known. And

11:37

when that happened, when it was revealed

11:40

that it was he felt slighted,

11:43

such as yourself. I don't know

11:45

what that feels like for

11:47

me. Watching the

11:49

dynamics of family, I think

11:51

that motherhood, fatherhood

11:55

is all who really stepped to the plate

11:57

to perform right. I do understand

12:00

the biological part because we want to

12:02

know what the truth is, right.

12:04

But even with knowing the truth, the

12:07

truth to me is who really stepped

12:09

up to the break. That's my feelings

12:12

about right. How was your.

12:15

Adoptive parents? Did you feel connected

12:18

to them? Did you have a good childhood? I

12:20

felt connected.

12:21

I was.

12:22

I can never say that I wasn't loved or provided

12:24

for or protected. I grew up

12:26

very well and went to good schools. I was in a good neighborhood.

12:29

I went to the best summer camps.

12:32

I think I was. I was fine, And I

12:34

think that's why a part of me always

12:36

felt guilty looking for my biological

12:39

family, because I wasn't raised bad. I feel like sometimes

12:41

people only think you deserve to look,

12:43

You deserve to know if you grew.

12:45

Up in foster care, or if you were abused.

12:47

Or but I genuinely, out of

12:49

curiosity, wanted to know who

12:52

I was the facets of me. But

12:55

my parents were great. So you're so your adoptive

12:57

father, you did have a relationship with him, Yeah,

13:00

say raised me from birth? Okay, But you had

13:02

a good relationship, a healthy relationship relationship

13:04

with him. So then how does not

13:08

having or I guess does not

13:10

having or knowing even who your

13:12

biological father is.

13:15

Is that a challenge for you and if so, how does

13:17

that challenge show up in your everyday life.

13:20

It's a challenge for me only because

13:22

I did not I do not today currently

13:24

know a name, a face, age,

13:27

anything of my biological father. But

13:29

meeting the woman that burst me.

13:32

So you did meet her biological brother, tell

13:34

us about that. There was a lot of me and her. I

13:36

saw a lot of the facets of nature

13:39

versus nurture in that woman. Things

13:42

that I could not connect with on my biological

13:44

side that I said as a child, there's home videos

13:46

of me saying as a kid, I don't think I'm

13:49

from here. I was four

13:51

there was no reason why I should say that out loud.

13:54

And it was a lot of my family. Like

13:56

I said, everyone in my family is

13:59

great aunts, uncle, everyone married,

14:02

no issues, all kids from the same household.

14:04

When I found my biological mother, she's

14:07

one of a lot. I'm not going to lie and say that I

14:09

have all the details. It's more than eight And

14:12

I figured out that there's not one

14:14

woman that's married. Every woman

14:16

has multiple children with different

14:18

fathers. The facets of you

14:21

know, domestic violence or divorces

14:23

high. I felt like I

14:26

carried something genetic

14:28

that wasn't seen

14:30

in the home that I was grown up in. But I saw

14:32

a lot of the facets

14:35

that I think in my adopted

14:37

household were seen as unruly

14:40

or rebellious, or

14:43

loudspoken or sexually

14:46

inquisitive at an early age. Was

14:49

there in that biological family's

14:51

household. And it was so normal

14:55

that I was able. It was like a sheep

14:57

shedding its like I'd never been looked

14:59

at and so understood

15:02

than when I sat in that lady's house. That

15:06

raises a question of nature versus nurture. Did

15:08

you ask her about your father? I did, and

15:10

what she said. Now, when I found out I was adopted.

15:13

It was not in the best circumstances. It was

15:15

told me, you have mistake to this stay currently. I was never

15:17

supposed to know. So in a safety security posit

15:20

deposit box downtown, if my

15:22

parents were to pass or pass together, that boxes

15:24

to be destroyed. I was never supposed

15:26

to know that was the intent.

15:29

With time.

15:29

My father told me, how do you ever tell the child

15:31

you prayed for and that you love that she's not yours?

15:34

When do I sit you down and look you in the face

15:36

and tell you you're not mine? He's

15:39

like, I never thought about it again. Once I signed that

15:41

paper and I raised you, I never it

15:43

never crossed my mind again. You were mine, I was

15:45

yours, and we life went on. I

15:49

found in biological mother on Facebook, so wonderful

15:52

network were you put in people's first and last name? Is

15:54

not like Instagram where people change their hashtags.

15:57

So I found her on there, and all

15:59

I had was a safety deposit box

16:01

of pictures of children because I'm a product

16:04

of two teenage children, the

16:06

same way my child was a product of two

16:08

teenage children. But no one in

16:10

my adopted family had ever had teenage pregnancy

16:13

ever, So yeah, I only had

16:15

a picture of a young girl tenth grade and a

16:17

young boy tenth grade. But I'm looking for them

16:19

twenty seven years later with a childhood

16:22

school OCPS picture. I

16:25

did find the gentleman online, the same way I found

16:27

a biological mother through Facebook. He

16:29

told me that he carried the shame of me for

16:31

a long time that giving

16:33

me up for adoption. His family at that time actually

16:36

had to move because you know,

16:38

you were supposed to have raised the kids you birth, and they chose

16:40

a different option. So he said,

16:42

no disrespect to you, but I'd

16:44

like to get a DNA test. I've never known.

16:47

I knew she birthed a child. I knew

16:49

you didn't stay, but I don't know. And

16:51

I was in tenth grade and this is a grown man

16:53

now, So who am I to say?

16:55

Oh?

16:55

No, just love me for who are no? I need to

16:57

know too. I was just as lost as he was. We

17:00

went to there's a DNA center in Orlando,

17:02

Florida. He said, I'll pay

17:04

for your test, and I'll pay for mine. He

17:07

paid for himself, and he went first. That day

17:09

that he went, I had to work, so I went the

17:11

next day, checked myself in. I

17:13

asked if my test was already paid for. The lady

17:16

at the clerk desk confirmed that it was.

17:18

I sat down, I let them swab me, and I sat

17:20

there, and then in two weeks I got an email

17:22

and none of our genes matched. So

17:25

he was not your biological father.

17:28

Wow, so we

17:30

still don't know who your biological father?

17:32

Now? Did you go back and have to confront

17:34

your mother with this info?

17:35

The only thing is, it's hard to confront someone I don't

17:38

have relationship with, like long term.

17:40

It's hard for me to push. I feel

17:42

like I can push.

17:43

My mother that raised me because I'm like, well,

17:45

we were raised with good standards and yeah, honesty

17:47

of the best policy. It's hard for

17:49

me to lay who I am on

17:51

someone, even though I know she loved me, and I know she

17:53

looked for me, and it was a teenage pregnancy, It's

17:55

hard for me to push her. She was very adamant

17:58

that that's the only person I slept with, grade

18:02

she had no other answer. M and

18:05

I thought it was always a little weird, a little

18:07

eerie. I did do the whole genetics

18:10

thing that's online with the apps the DNA and

18:12

me a DNA and whatever, and

18:15

my uh, it says that I'm related to

18:17

a lot of people with the last name that

18:19

is in her family, so I kind of stopped.

18:23

To a lot of people in her family.

18:25

The last name is similar to a lot of

18:27

people that are related on like her

18:29

stepdad's side of the family. So that made me

18:31

pause. I didn't know if I was going to make

18:33

her relift something. I didn't know if this

18:35

was a stepfather,

18:39

a step brother, and I

18:41

let it go for the mental health

18:44

of a woman that I felt like at that time had changed

18:46

her life and was doing good for herself and

18:49

she was happy with just finding me, and I kind

18:51

of just left it.

18:53

It was weird. I always thought it was a little eerie.

18:55

The last name was due match.

18:56

Like they'll say this

18:58

genetics of your DNA is really to people,

19:00

and it will say mother's side, and mother's

19:02

side has all the last names of her side.

19:05

Then it will say father's last name. Let's just throw

19:07

out Johnson, but that Johnson's

19:10

side, let's say, is just from

19:12

the stepfather's side.

19:14

So that gave me pause. And I

19:16

don't want incestuous.

19:19

It could have been a child was touched

19:21

and I just didn't I

19:23

just didn't want to, so it's possible that you

19:25

are the product of sexual abuse

19:28

correct and potentially incestuous sexual abuse

19:30

food a stepfather.

19:31

Correct.

19:32

That is a lot to Carrie as

19:34

somebody how

19:37

knowing that, How did that show up in

19:39

your I mean, you're finding us out at twenty six and twenty

19:41

seven year divorce. It was Yeah,

19:43

it was just hard. I just felt like I didn't want

19:46

I never got a yes or no answer. I don't even know if

19:48

that is correct. R. I didn't want to peel back

19:51

trauma for someone who I

19:53

was taken from her. Her mother said absolutely not. I

19:55

have seven kids. I'm struggling to feed these seven. You

19:57

will birth her because that was their face and the

19:59

really, but she will not stay here. So

20:02

she had that trauma, She had a lot of

20:04

me being taken from her. They said, oh, we're just gonna

20:06

go check her vitals, and I never went back to her room.

20:09

This was a tenth second.

20:11

Yeah, I didn't want to

20:13

tear her down because I feel like, no matter

20:15

what she went through for me to get there, I

20:18

lived a good life and and a

20:20

part of me just wanted to be grateful for that.

20:22

Now you brought up something, I'm gonna step back

20:24

a little bit because I've gone through that

20:26

this this year. Yeah, And

20:29

it's interesting where you have daddy issues

20:32

past their death. My

20:34

father passed two years

20:37

ago. A wow, but my sorry

20:39

for that. Stepmother required

20:42

a dns A test two years

20:44

ago. I had to take it this year.

20:47

I'm sixty four years old. You

20:49

went and got swabbed down at sixty? Why

20:51

why did she want that? Why the

20:54

inheritance? Not that I

20:56

know of. She said that she needed that for peace

20:59

of mine. She did not believe

21:01

that you were correct? And is that what

21:03

led to the challenging relationship? You know, you're

21:05

the distance that you guys had with each other. I

21:08

think that it's part of it. I think that

21:10

it's part of it. How long was

21:12

she married to your father? Oh? Over fifty

21:14

some years. Okay, so she was there for a good Oh

21:16

yeah, okay. She came on war when

21:18

I was about eight years old. Oh yeah, no, that's young.

21:21

Yeah, so knowing

21:23

all the dynamics. But talking about daddy

21:25

issues, right, So, when

21:29

there is absenteeism, you need

21:31

to kind of roll things back to

21:33

evaluate why is there

21:35

absenteeism? And for me, I

21:38

believe that his engagement

21:42

when I was present of being

21:45

very He was very present, but when

21:47

I was out of sight out of mind, had

21:49

some to do with the dynamics of his

21:51

household. It

21:54

wasn't just totally relying

21:56

upon him. So when we talk about

21:58

daddy issues, it is holling back,

22:00

what are all of the factors that could contribute

22:03

to that? And for me thinking

22:05

about this at sixty four passed my

22:07

father's passing my biological

22:09

father. Now you're being required

22:12

to take a DNA test. That's

22:15

very revealing much. Can

22:17

I ask you if you took it? I did, you didn't.

22:19

I wasn't going to. Okay, well,

22:22

let me say it. I wasn't going to that. I

22:24

was going to.

22:26

That.

22:27

I wasn't going to again. And

22:32

it was primarily because my

22:34

stepmother and I my

22:37

stepmother literally cursed

22:39

me out about an issue and

22:41

recently, yeah, and because of that,

22:43

I said, okay, I'm not going to take

22:45

the test. But then from

22:48

my stepmother and my father's relationship,

22:50

I have two brothers, and one

22:52

of the brothers asked me if I would take the

22:54

test, and because of him, I said I

22:56

would because to me, my

22:59

role in life is to be who

23:01

I am. I'm the daughter, I'm the sister,

23:04

and if there's something that I

23:06

should do, I will the same

23:08

way as it was. I was going to take the test with

23:10

my stepmother. But then once you curse me out

23:13

for no reason, okay, I have no

23:15

reason to really oblige you. Yeah,

23:18

you know.

23:19

It's interesting because, first of all, I'm sorry

23:21

that you had this experience with your stepmother. My

23:23

father was never married to my mother. Like I said,

23:25

they stayed along to make me and that was

23:28

it. But my father did eventually

23:30

marry a woman when I was like five years old,

23:33

my stepmother, Sharon, and.

23:36

We got along great.

23:38

I mean I was a brat, don't get me wrong,

23:40

because my father let me do whatever. She'd be

23:42

trying to, like, you know, play Susie h homemaker

23:44

and make these meals so they didn't have kids yet, and

23:46

she'd have a balance medal with vegetables and I'm

23:48

like, oh, I want it, you know, and my

23:51

name okay, pizza, you know,

23:53

and she was trying to bring water. I remember

23:55

when I was little, when the

23:57

song We Are the World came out, that was

23:59

like my song. Okay, I had the little

24:01

forty five For the young people who don't know, that's a little

24:03

tiny album.

24:04

It looked like a CD. Y'all might not even know what the CD is

24:06

anymore this point.

24:07

But I used to put this album on and we

24:09

had a closet that you stepped up in and

24:12

I would hide behind her clothes

24:14

as soon as that first Stanza came out, and

24:16

I would just like, I

24:18

remember you can

24:22

yes, my father.

24:24

She's like, you know, Thompson. She's like in

24:26

the closet, like messing up my clothes. And my dad said,

24:28

oh, don't worry about take care of it and move all her clothes

24:31

to a different clossal so you

24:33

can carry always keep my stage

24:35

singing we are in the world. And she still

24:37

found it in herself to love me take care of

24:39

me. I mean, he would let me eat whatever. I would get

24:41

sick and she would come clean

24:43

it up and everything. So I was blessed

24:46

to have that relationship with her, which I think helped me have

24:48

a good relationship with my father, but to

24:50

have that relationship disrupted with

24:52

his untimely death at a point, and

24:54

I remember the

24:57

night that my father, or

24:59

the last time I saw him conscious.

25:02

He said to me, he's like I'm dying

25:04

and he was vomiting blood. And

25:07

I mean just it was awful, and I knew

25:10

I just didn't want to be there. I didn't want

25:12

to see it, you know, I wanted to leave, And

25:14

so I left, and the

25:16

next morning the ambulance was there

25:18

carrying him out. We went to the hospital.

25:21

And so a part of me wonders, like, I wonder, had

25:24

I stayed within the house

25:26

with my dad? You know, I didn't at this point he was living

25:28

with another woman who wasn't my stepmother. But

25:30

I was like, I wonder if I stayed in that house with him that night,

25:33

what he may have said to me, you know, what

25:35

would he have imparted some dying wisdom

25:37

on me? Or what I've been traumatized by what I

25:39

saw. I don't know, But I think the commonality

25:42

of all of us, even though you were blessed enough to have

25:44

your adoptive father raise you,

25:47

you're blessed enough to have a step dad come in your life.

25:49

So again, shout out to black dads. I think

25:51

the commonality, though, is there

25:53

was our biological fathers

25:56

were not around for a point

25:58

in our life, and I just want or how

26:00

that has impacted our relationships

26:04

with our peers, with

26:06

our lovers, but most importantly,

26:08

with ourselves. And I will say for me,

26:11

I definitely had a pin. When I was younger,

26:13

I was went to day older men. I don't mean like

26:16

inappropriate, like I was a teenager dating adults.

26:18

I mean like in my twenties. Most of

26:20

them I dated when in their thirties.

26:21

Okay. I definitely.

26:25

Liked men who you know, were kind of

26:27

in charge, you know, like very

26:30

similar characteristics to my dad. And

26:32

I'll tell you, guys, I'm telling

26:35

all my business and I'm like

26:37

sharing my therapy session. But I

26:39

remember I was talking to my therapist

26:41

had me write down

26:44

what characteristics I would like

26:46

in a parent at different

26:49

points in my life. I recommend people do

26:51

that. It was really illuminating because I wrote about

26:54

what kind of characteristics I want as a toddler,

26:56

you know, as a seven year old, eight year

26:59

old, as the thirteen year old, as a sixteen

27:01

year old. And I wrote all these down, and

27:03

I was dating this man,

27:06

and months prior she had asked

27:08

me, why do you like this man?

27:10

You know?

27:10

And I wrote down all the things I liked

27:12

about him, and she said to me, Tiffany,

27:15

the things that you wished you had and a

27:17

parent, you reference

27:19

them as things you like in

27:21

this man. And she said to me,

27:23

you are looking for a parent, not a partner,

27:26

and a partner cannot be your parent. And

27:29

I, at this big age,

27:31

am still struggling with that because I's so

27:33

caught up in who I am. So I set

27:35

all my business today. How has

27:38

the relationship with your father

27:41

impacted the relationship that

27:43

you have with our counterparts black men

27:45

and your relationships with men.

27:47

That's I like the question. It

27:53

was very impactful for me in regards

27:56

to my marriage. I

27:58

feel that men have a very special

28:00

place in their children's life.

28:04

I think they're very important, of course, to

28:06

the partnership between

28:08

the adults. But when

28:11

I married my husband, it was a little sketchy,

28:15

and I'm saying sketchy because we

28:17

were slated to get married. Then

28:20

I did what I shouldn't have done, and then I got

28:22

pregnant, so then I moved the wedding

28:24

up. So

28:28

some would possibly call him a shotgun

28:30

yet, but it really you were

28:34

already slated to be married, but

28:36

because I moved the wedding date up, then

28:39

his heart began to fainter. I'm talking

28:41

about my ex husband, but

28:45

we were married for almost twenty five years

28:48

out of that, I

28:50

would not have stayed the entire time. He was

28:52

not abusive, the best partner

28:54

for my children I could ever

28:56

have. Okay, for me,

29:00

he didn't love me. He

29:03

liked me a lot, but

29:06

he didn't love me. He

29:08

loved me now, but I'm not

29:10

his wife, right would say

29:13

he loved you. Oh,

29:17

I'll use his words. I love

29:19

you, but I'm not in love with you.

29:22

Yeah, so it

29:25

was the same thing. Yes, were you in love

29:27

with him? Yes? And no.

29:30

I think I was more so in love with

29:32

the fact of keeping my family together.

29:36

I wanted my children. That was why we

29:38

stayed. But mind you talking

29:41

about fathers, my children

29:43

loved their father. He filled

29:45

a gap that needed to be filled.

29:48

It was a promise that I made to myself. There

29:51

were a couple of promises. One was, I'll never

29:54

just have one child because I stayed the only child for

29:56

eleven years. That's a lonely life,

29:59

you know, that makes me feel good?

30:05

And then not only was

30:07

that was the first one, and the second one was

30:10

I was going to fight to keep my family

30:12

together for my children's sake. So you

30:15

know, there's a description says there's no greater

30:17

love than the love where you lay down your life

30:19

for a friend, where my children, for

30:21

me were my friends. So I would

30:23

sacrifice me similar to some

30:26

things that you may be familiar with, you

30:28

know, was it the right

30:30

thing to do? Would I do it again?

30:33

Definitely, because I

30:36

I would not. When I look

30:38

at my children, they're

30:41

who they are and how they are, I

30:43

would not change it, give it.

30:46

Our home was very

30:48

peaceful and if you asked my children,

30:51

what would they call it?

30:54

It was just a wholesome place. Everyone came

30:56

to our home. My children

30:58

went into shock along with me when

31:02

we went for a divorce because we

31:04

never displayed. My children

31:07

never saw us argue. We would

31:09

have deep conversations, but that was still behind

31:11

closed doors, so it was not a

31:13

lot of a turmoil that went

31:15

on in our house. My ex husband,

31:18

I love him. I still love him

31:20

to Thursday because he is a very

31:22

good person.

31:26

Did you know when you got married him that he didn't love

31:28

you or that he was not in love with you?

31:31

No? Not really. During

31:33

our wedding it was a very exciting

31:35

time for he and I And I'll

31:38

see it this way. I showed up

31:40

expecting him not to show up. He showed

31:42

up expecting me not to show up. That

31:47

was one too, was

31:50

the fact that while the minister was

31:52

actually during our vows, we were

31:55

kind of arguing right

31:58

in front, but not a

32:00

a It was a big reality ye right.

32:02

It wasn't a bitter argument, but it was an

32:04

argument of what are you doing here? What are you doing

32:07

here? You know? Really? And that

32:09

kind of friendship that we still home. Well,

32:13

I think that's beautiful. I think there's something there though,

32:15

to be with somebody who wasn't in love with you and

32:18

the through line of the relationship the

32:20

distance you had with your biological father, because

32:22

that is the first relationship that we have with

32:26

a member of the opposite sex, and it determines

32:28

so much. How do you think, Well,

32:31

I mean you kind of found out when you were already

32:34

an adult, but just how did the relationship

32:36

with your adoptive father, who was there for you and supportive,

32:39

and then finding out you don't know who your biological

32:41

father is, how has that impacted

32:43

your choice in partnership.

32:46

I can say that a lot of people look at daddy

32:49

issues as an issue. An issue

32:51

is a bad thing, An issue is something you should

32:53

see help for, talk to a therapist for you're

32:56

the problem until you get that little kink

32:58

worked out. It'll all always be you. I

33:01

need people to know that daddy issues can

33:03

come from healthy father daughter relationships.

33:05

Abs It was healthy. It was

33:08

so healthy to the fact that when my mother, when my

33:10

husband didn't do shit, I called my dad. Yeah,

33:12

my dad came over and I sat down, and my dad would

33:14

fix everything. To

33:17

the point that sometimes I didn't even lean on my

33:19

husband, probably the way I should have, because

33:22

how I was grown and raised and fed.

33:24

And if I have a problem, you call your dad, and

33:27

my husband's at work. The toilet is broken,

33:29

now my dad's at home. I'm

33:31

going to call my dad. I want to even fill them in sometimes

33:34

or sometimes, like you rung up, I really resonated

33:36

when you said you and your husband

33:39

didn't argue in front of your kids, and

33:41

if you had serious or in depth or

33:44

needed conversation, it

33:46

was done behind closed doors.

33:48

That is me to a picture.

33:49

I have never, to this day at

33:51

thirty three, ever seen my parents

33:53

argue. Ever, so

33:56

when I experienced it in my marriage, I was like,

33:58

oh my god, I have to fix this.

33:59

It's me. This never happened to my

34:01

parents. They never argued. They did.

34:03

I just didn't see it. But because I didn't

34:06

see it, people think ignorance is bliss, and it's

34:08

not. If I would have maybe seeing my parents

34:10

argue in front of me and handle it in an

34:12

appropriate way, with positive language

34:14

and not calling each other out of their name, maybe

34:16

I wouldn't have developed the fix it mentality

34:19

like I have to be a better wife. My mother has

34:21

to be a better wife than me because

34:24

she didn't pull my father on a character like this, but

34:26

she did it right.

34:27

It was just behind closed doors, so

34:29

I didn't see it.

34:31

So I think that's so key what you said, because I

34:33

do think a lot of parents and the healthy

34:35

relationships.

34:37

It's like, let's take this, but it's okay to see

34:39

conflict.

34:39

Okay,

34:42

yeah,

34:44

it is normal.

34:45

That's how I handle it as a wife,

34:48

and I never saw it. I might as well.

34:50

I had a mom and dad.

34:51

I never there were facets of

34:53

a marriage, even though I was a product

34:55

in their house and raised and love and appropriately.

34:58

I never saw it. But that's just the

35:00

thing. It wasn't that I didn't want to do that.

35:03

My husband didn't want to argue kids

35:07

exactly. I felt that it should

35:09

always be. Now i'll take you another

35:11

step or into a different layer.

35:14

And this layer is after we

35:17

moved to California and then we moved back

35:19

because my grandmother became sick. Lived

35:21

with my grandparents, my maternal

35:23

grandparents. But my grandfather was

35:25

an alcoholic, but

35:28

he was a gentle alcoholic. Yep, same

35:30

with my dad. With my dad now, he

35:33

and my grandmother would argue all

35:35

the time in the bed. So

35:39

I saw that, so it didn't bother

35:42

me. Going back to what you're saying about having

35:44

that actually exhibited in front

35:46

of you, what that really means and

35:48

what it meant to me was you could have the argument

35:50

and okay, good night, maybe

35:53

good night or no good nights in

35:55

the morning because I saw my grandmother get

35:57

up in the morning and make his breakfast and

35:59

they may argued half the night. Yeah,

36:02

but they're in the bed together. So the

36:05

conflict resolution, how do you do that? You

36:07

stay in there? Right. That

36:09

was the other reason why I felt that I could

36:11

do it all over again, because

36:14

I saw that it was not an issue.

36:17

You know, I it makes

36:19

me think about I'll try to just a little bit

36:21

to sex well

36:24

because I think, you

36:26

know, as a young woman, and

36:29

you know, my father passed away and

36:31

I had to go through my teenage years. And

36:34

I remember my father. Like I said, my

36:36

father was from around the way and but

36:39

cool. Like everybody loved my dad. He was the

36:41

life of the party. But he certainly did

36:43

raise me a certain way to conduct myself,

36:45

a certain way. I was untouchable.

36:47

I was this princess, you know, and

36:50

I was only to be touched by like the

36:52

most high quality person

36:54

who could ever. And so I did go through

36:57

life and I never,

37:00

even at this middle age, I have never

37:02

separated sex and love,

37:05

And so I wonder if it's

37:07

that I've never separated sex and love, or do

37:09

I equate sex with love, Like

37:11

do I want this connection so badly

37:14

that I convince myself maybe I love you

37:16

and have this relationship that I'm

37:18

really yearning for. Since my therapist

37:21

told me you're looking for a parent, not a partner,

37:23

I'm like, Oh, I wonder if I'm

37:26

really searching for something deeper.

37:29

I haven't quite worked that out in my mind yet. Y'all

37:31

are my therapist for either

37:33

time. Yeah, but I wonder

37:36

how even in our physical relationships with our

37:39

counterparts, like I've

37:41

never been able to do like a casual sex

37:43

relationship, you know, because I think about my

37:45

father's been gone, you know, in the arms

37:47

of Jesus. Some would say for you

37:50

know, over thirty five years. But I do think about

37:53

like him watching me, and like men I deal with,

37:56

I'm like, will my father be good with me? Rocking with

37:58

you?

37:58

You know? What?

37:59

Are you the kind of man who my father will be proud

38:01

to hand over his daughter too? And

38:04

it makes me question myself sometimes with

38:06

these men, how does it show up for

38:08

you? Like when you deal with men, what

38:11

is your thought process as it relates

38:13

to your dad? I think when you get that princess

38:15

treatment, it is hard

38:18

to separate sex from love. For me, very

38:21

similar to what you said, I would be a terrible prostitute.

38:25

I can't. I can't do it. Yahause

38:27

some people are like, oh, oh, it's a tool. It's not to

38:29

me now, it's not a tool. I don't think it's

38:31

a game. Everyone I've ever slept with I loved

38:34

them, Yeah, and it was supposed to be this For everything.

38:36

I equate sex with love. I

38:39

definitely equate children with love

38:41

like it was my dad didn't

38:43

leave, yeah, so why would you leave? And

38:46

I buried your children and you're still going to leave like it was

38:48

like a shock, like it was

38:50

something I really had to work

38:52

through. And sex goes both ways. If

38:55

a man thinks that sex is not equivalent

38:57

to love, which I sadly have figured

38:59

that out out, it doesn't matter how

39:01

I feel. I

39:04

know that I struggle separating

39:06

sex with love very bad, and I don't

39:08

know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

39:10

But I will not, I have not, I probably

39:12

will never.

39:13

I have girlfriends all the time that are just like, oh, what

39:16

are they say, knock the dust off, just

39:18

do it. That sounds terrible.

39:21

Yeah, that sounds sounds val.

39:24

It doesn't sound terrible in the sense of I'm

39:26

judging women. I'm actually a little

39:28

envious that you can own your sexuality that

39:31

way and just use it when you want to, right

39:33

or like you're not even you're not trying to resolve

39:35

some daddy issue, making like maybe you just have

39:37

agency over your sexuality and this is

39:40

what you like to do for me. It is definitely

39:42

very caught up in the relationship I was my

39:44

father and being the kind of woman

39:47

that he would be proud of today just as he

39:49

was then. But also this is innate value

39:51

that takes myself more right than anyone

39:54

else because he taught me like my

39:56

father, I'm telling you, I would be a very

39:58

adult environments write on my

40:00

dad's lap. They passing a weed around

40:02

and I'm sitting right here, and my father was like,

40:05

you can't even come speak to my day.

40:08

You have to afford me respect from protection,

40:11

even my uncles. I'm proud of you all.

40:13

Thank you,

40:21

Doctor Joying telling our seven

40:23

elder like,

40:26

what role like, how do you conflate

40:28

the relationship you have with men sexually

40:30

with the kind of absentee

40:32

father that you have.

40:34

I do not. I

40:36

do not for you. I

40:39

understand the

40:42

integration. I do

40:45

believe in love and

40:47

sex and how they really

40:50

it. This is I

40:53

have to take a breath there because I

40:55

remember I remember

40:58

loving my husbands much. This

41:01

is this is really I

41:06

know I was, but it was, but

41:09

I really just wanted to melt

41:13

into his body. Yes, yes,

41:15

that was the love. That was just how deep

41:17

it was for me. However,

41:21

there's the flip side, because I can separate

41:23

the two, where you may not be able to separate

41:26

the two. I can't work on it. I

41:30

grew up in a family

41:33

with many men. I

41:35

had a great aunt that had seven sons, and

41:39

I used to. I lived

41:42

my life with them, so I

41:44

learned the mill's role

41:47

and their conversation, and

41:49

it really made me more

41:54

masculine in my thinking and

41:56

feelings than feminine. It's

41:59

hard for me to cry. Wow,

42:02

I don't mind, but

42:05

it is. It's very challenging for me to cry.

42:09

I can cry right now. I'm

42:11

not that sensitive. Yeah, But at the

42:13

same token, boy,

42:17

I have some stories.

42:22

Yoursion tolerated as a child. When you

42:24

cried. Did someone tell you to be quiet? You're doing

42:26

too much?

42:28

Suck it up? No?

42:29

No, no, But just hanging

42:31

around seven boy cousins made you

42:33

not cry?

42:34

Oh, because I was never going to be

42:36

that biggie woman. I don't need.

42:38

You, but

42:40

but I don't need you. Well,

42:42

okay, so you're talking about the boy cousins. What I'm

42:44

hearing is your father was

42:47

not there consistently, and that you

42:49

learn to sell soothe and say, you know

42:51

what, my father, right, I am

42:53

the person maintaining this relationship is not viable

42:55

without me, so I will teach myself. I

42:57

don't need you, but our

43:00

biological way that we're connected to

43:02

our parents being the lawyers,

43:05

something I would never.

43:09

Wisdom.

43:10

But this is what I'm hearing as an outsider is

43:13

that you self sued and taught yourselves. I'm

43:15

a g you know, and I am going

43:17

to see somebody else will. But but

43:20

also I'm going to take control of this relationship.

43:22

I will force you to see me. I

43:24

will maintain this relationship your life, whether you're maintaining

43:26

it or not. I will defiantly be your daughter,

43:29

despite you allowing your wife your

43:31

stepmother. Yeah,

43:33

and I'd rather through line. It's not so much the boy

43:35

cousins. It's this is this is what I've learned

43:38

through the relationship with my father and

43:40

how I relate to others, but again, how

43:42

I relate to myself. I will not allow

43:44

myself to feel this pain weak

43:47

because I'm going to self suit and it's not Yes,

43:49

it's not really the weakness. It's

43:52

it's more so I am

43:54

very viable, just

43:56

as you are.

43:58

But I'm not going to

44:00

be dependent on you

44:03

validating me. I must validate

44:06

myself. Now. If you validate

44:08

me too, oh, we really have something

44:10

going on. But if you don't, I

44:13

am not going because normally what happened

44:15

when people are seeking that validation from

44:17

someone else, be it from a father or

44:20

whoever you're

44:22

weakened, you've given the control of

44:24

your life to someone

44:27

else, to their discression,

44:29

to their discretion. Absolutely, I can't

44:31

afford to do that because I only have

44:33

this what one life, I

44:35

only have this one second, I only have this

44:38

one day. With all of that

44:40

being said, I'm going to

44:42

validate me. Now. That does not mean I

44:44

don't have a yearning or a desire. I

44:47

do, but I do not let the

44:49

desire dictate my

44:51

feelings.

44:53

I think that's so beautiful because you can

44:55

go through you

44:57

not having a present father, biological

45:00

in your household every day, and that's that's

45:03

that's that's that split where it's like it can either

45:05

go this way or it can either go this

45:07

way. Not saying that how

45:09

you process or how we process things as one hundred

45:12

percent correct, but I just think that

45:14

that piece that she took like I'm going to do this

45:16

for me, I'm going to love me, and if

45:19

you're around, you're around.

45:19

If you're not, you're not.

45:21

I still think there's a lot of strength in that, yeah,

45:23

because some people can just be like, well, if my daddy doesn't

45:25

love me, no one loves me, and then you hear that on

45:27

the flip side where some people that are you

45:30

know, prostitutes or got

45:32

raped or different circumstances because

45:34

you are seeking that validation. But

45:36

you took the opposite way. You made it beautiful

45:39

for you. And I think it's something.

45:41

It's wisdom and that that's why I so love

45:43

hearing from our elders here in your sixties

45:46

and life has taught you that. And I will

45:48

walk away with that, with knowledge

45:50

that was becacause you're what you're saying is to the extreme

45:53

area. You're saying you know prostitutes and what they don't

45:55

do. I am nowhere near that,

45:58

but I still have sought validation

46:00

on some level where it may not be pronounced.

46:02

I mean I did have to. I am on the journey

46:04

home to myself in my twenties. I did not have

46:06

the discernment to understand what I was

46:08

doing. But even now and

46:11

dealing with this man, and you

46:14

know, it's like I'm drawn

46:16

back to what my father taught me, you know,

46:18

like make sure that you are valued. And

46:21

he didn't say these words, and he just showed me

46:23

these words. My uncles is why I gotta get because

46:25

when my father passed away, my uncle, my uncle Brady

46:28

used to take me to dinner for every

46:30

single birthday, and he had this cute little

46:32

black two theater sports car, and

46:34

I would get dressed up and we would

46:36

go to then my dad he'd say, actually, uncle Brady, your

46:39

daddy could go. And

46:41

it was always just me and him, and I

46:43

just felt like courty, you know,

46:45

I felt like so special. He took

46:47

me to some adult dinner and it was like a black

46:50

side dinner, and I went with him and

46:52

I would just hear adults speaking. I remember being a little

46:54

girl at the table and I had only

46:56

heard this in movies. I didn't even know what it meant, but I knew

46:58

I was thirsty, and I said, excuse me,

47:01

everyone, I'm going to get a drink.

47:02

And everybody laugh like alcohol.

47:06

But I remember, just now

47:08

what I'm going through dealing with this man

47:11

and therapy and just you're not trying to figure

47:13

life out. My therapist

47:16

pointed out that some people, it's

47:18

like, if you can convince this man to love

47:20

you and the way that you want to be loved.

47:23

For example, if he's like loved you but not in love

47:25

with you, or if he's in love with you but not good

47:27

for you, whatever that is that you can convince

47:29

this man to love me and be in love with

47:32

me the way that I desire,

47:35

then somehow that would make everything

47:37

else make sense. And somehow you are showing yourself

47:39

I am worthy. So all the other people

47:41

who didn't love me before, my mother,

47:44

my father, my parents loved me. But you know, as

47:46

a child, you misinterpret things. My

47:48

mom didn't make me feel and my dad didn't make me feel

47:50

away whatever that is. And this

47:52

person loving me, I will heal those wounds.

47:54

And that's not how it goes. So your

47:57

thought that no, I validate

47:59

myself, right, I am self soothing.

48:02

I'm managing my emotions. I have not managed

48:04

those things yet. I mean

48:06

I'm managing them right.

48:09

I am not where you have attained this wisdom,

48:13

and nothing is like day spent on this

48:15

earth. So I think that helps you afford this

48:17

wisdom of coming

48:19

home to yourself. So speaking

48:22

of coming home to ourselves, we got

48:24

to come home and pay some bills real quick, so I

48:26

take a quick break. But on the other side of this, I

48:28

do want to get into just

48:32

some of the streets of talking about when it comes to you

48:34

know, these like celebrities and you know

48:36

we romanticize their lives, but they also have

48:39

challenges with their kids. And

48:41

anyway, I'm just tired of telling all my business. So a

48:43

lot of people in the business right

48:46

after.

48:46

This break, so stay with us.

48:51

Okay, y'all already know the streets are

48:53

talking, talking, talking. Okay,

48:56

welcome back, everybody. We have not stopped talking

48:58

for two seconds because we have so much talk about.

49:00

But now that I told all my business, I'd like to get into

49:02

somebody else's business, and that

49:05

is Brian y knight. Before we went to break, I was

49:07

going to ask you guys, what makes a bad dad,

49:09

And sadly, Brian McKnight comes

49:11

to mind. Just for our viewers who don't

49:14

know, Brian McKnight,

49:16

has I feel disrespected,

49:18

disregarded and discarded his children

49:20

from his first marriage. Unfortunately,

49:24

he has referred to his children as a product

49:26

of sin. He recently accused

49:29

his ex wife

49:31

of basically influencing

49:34

his relationship with his now a strange son and

49:37

his son I should tell you has cancer, and

49:41

his son Nico tweeted when

49:43

I was about to die in the hospital from complications

49:46

for my cancer, I just wanted to bury

49:48

the hatchet and hear from him referring

49:50

to Brian McKnight. Hear from him say he loves me,

49:52

and he told me no, he could not arbitrarily

49:55

tell me he loves me. Still cuts

49:58

so deep. The fact that this is playing out

50:00

in social media. I think it's just heartbreaking,

50:03

But also it makes you question what kind of man

50:05

with means and resources we

50:07

treat their children that way. But

50:10

it struck me with you, doctor Joy, because

50:12

your stepmother influenced

50:14

your relationship with your father, and so you

50:16

have a unique lens into this, and I'm curious what

50:18

you might say to Brian McKnight.

50:21

Having been the products of a relationship like

50:23

that, what would you say to him?

50:25

It would begin with he

50:28

really need to evaluate

50:30

why he wanted to erase that

50:33

part of his life or rearrange

50:37

it. Why would you call it

50:39

sin? If you were married to the woman, the

50:42

mother of your children, how is

50:44

it now they were born of sin? Are

50:46

you really speaking of yourself? Are

50:49

you speaking of the relationship? There

50:51

are so many layers to that. But looking

50:53

at my stepmother, she made

50:55

a comment. This

50:58

was during the time of

51:00

the

51:03

burial of my grandmother, my father's

51:05

mother and my

51:08

mother. My grandmother had been sick and

51:10

they had to take care of her, and she made

51:12

the comment she said, you know,

51:16

I've had a problem with you because you ruined

51:19

my perfect man. Now,

51:24

given I was in my twenties when she told

51:26

me this, but this was feelings

51:28

that she had from my age

51:31

of eight that I ruined

51:33

her perfect man. How does

51:35

a child ruin.

51:39

This?

51:39

I'm so ignorant. Yeah, well

51:42

it's ignorant, but it says a whole lot

51:44

more. Yes, because what's at the

51:46

root of that is I have an

51:48

idea in my mind of

51:50

what it's supposed to look like, what my life

51:53

is supposed to look like. So when I think

51:55

of Brian McKnight, I think

51:57

of the same thing that he's saying.

52:00

You were born in sin so I want to erase

52:02

that part of my life and this is

52:04

my now life. Now does that make it right?

52:07

No? I think

52:09

it's very confused and.

52:11

Self hating, Like because we had Dion

52:14

work on the show and she talks about

52:16

why would you want to disrespect

52:18

your creation? This person is a part

52:20

of you, And I mean, look, I will

52:23

say I will preserve everybody's privacy,

52:25

but I will say I happen to know Brian m knight is an asshole,

52:28

you know from first day experience.

52:30

So I think, yeah, so

52:32

I.

52:33

Forgive my language, doctor Joeye No, but I

52:35

don't find him to be this

52:37

is a very compelling at all. Is just

52:39

a person who would treat his children that way. But

52:41

I'm curious your thoughts on you

52:45

know, the way Brian McKnight is like just publicly

52:48

disregarding his children in favor

52:51

of this, even if because

52:53

sometimes it is like a new relationship is a thing

52:56

that's influencing your relationship with your children,

52:58

and both people have to come together. I thought Jay did

53:00

a great job with this with Will's ex wife, Will

53:02

Smith's ex wife that they said we had

53:04

to put our differences aside and put the kids first.

53:06

This doesn't even seem like that. This seems like Brian

53:09

McKnight is like, I don't like your mama, so I don't

53:11

like you, and that is just not a fair thing.

53:14

What are your daughts. I

53:16

think it's terrible.

53:18

I feel bad for whatever way

53:21

the kids are not the process through this, through life,

53:23

how they're going to carry and process it. You never

53:25

know how someone can internalize that, and

53:27

I think that's important to shed light on. I

53:30

probably resonate more or my kids.

53:33

So I would say I, because I raise my

53:35

kids, would probably resonate more with the

53:37

sun. And that's hard.

53:40

And I don't think that. I think

53:42

it makes it worse that Brian meant.

53:45

Brian McKnight has a large platform,

53:47

which means he has the way

53:49

to reach the masses, whether it's.

53:51

Good or bad.

53:52

He's in the position of power, right, But their

53:55

fathers that have no power in disregard

53:57

their kids every day on a regular

54:00

yeah relationship. But I wonder, you

54:03

know, the kids are gonna have to heal from this publicly emotionally

54:06

at home. I just don't I just

54:08

don't know. Well, I am

54:10

struct that well he is

54:12

suggesting, And I do find this a bit striking

54:15

that it's like, oh no, but the mother rejected

54:18

my health. Now let's just take Ryan

54:20

McKnight out of it, who we've established

54:22

as an asshole. So let's just talk

54:24

about the dynamic when

54:26

the mother is the person

54:28

denying the father access

54:31

to the children, and the

54:33

father like making every effort

54:36

and then being resentful because it's like, well,

54:38

I can't feel this pain of not having my children.

54:41

I'm mad at the mom. So I don't have anything to do with

54:43

it. I need fathers to put their foot down in fight for

54:45

their rights for their kids. Yeah, I'm tired of

54:47

the lazy fatherhood approach. If

54:49

these are their kids and you love your kids, go to the courthouse.

54:52

There's one in every county in the United States.

54:54

If you love that kid and you want to see that kid, get

54:57

your weekends. I don't care if they call you a weekend that

54:59

you want to get Friday Sunday. Make your inprint

55:01

on that child's life if you want to. But just

55:03

crying about how much you want to be a dad at home

55:06

or just for the fifty followers you have on Instagram,

55:08

it is not enough. Yes, it's not enough.

55:11

If you are a good father, the

55:14

courts will give you rights to your kids.

55:16

But if you can't get off your ass and go down

55:18

there and pay twenty five dollars to

55:21

register for visitation for your kids, shame

55:24

on you. Yeah, there's nothing to do with the mother,

55:26

and it's nothing to do with the with the child.

55:28

Sometimes fathers take that e that's an easy

55:31

cut. Oh it's the mother, it's the mother, No,

55:33

honey, it's you. Yeah, Because there want to be a

55:35

day in hell that I wouldn't fight to see my kids. Yeah,

55:37

I don't care how much money I had to pay on the line to go

55:39

see my kids, and it's free. Visitation

55:43

is completely separate from child support.

55:45

Yeah.

55:45

A lot of men like to say, oh they overlap, I don't

55:47

hear my child's word. I can't see them. There's not one state

55:49

where that overlaps. Not paying your child

55:51

support does not negate you visitation rights

55:54

to your kids. Yeah, it hurts

55:56

the mother because I feel like you should financially

55:58

help pay for soccer. But

56:01

just because you don't does not mean that

56:03

I don't let you see your kid Friday through Saturday.

56:05

But you are a special mother. There are

56:08

some mothers who really use

56:10

their children as a weapons. Yeah,

56:12

and that does hurt, yes,

56:15

the children. Yeah,

56:17

that's very very important, and I think that's what

56:19

we're talking about.

56:20

But I

56:22

think what your point though, is taken

56:25

the book Kids First. You know, your

56:28

father had an obligation to you, regardless

56:31

of what your stepmother was doing, to put you first.

56:34

And I go ahead, and I agree

56:36

with that, but I

56:39

also I'm going to go way

56:41

you back just a little bit. And

56:43

that is where you were talking about how

56:45

you saw the dynamics of some of your characteristics

56:48

behavior correct? Okay, what was he

56:50

shown? Who is he right?

56:52

For me?

56:53

I have many characteristics

56:56

of my father, even though I wasn't raised

56:58

in the house with him, and it

57:01

is conflict avoidance

57:05

is one and with that

57:08

that was also his role. So do

57:10

I really hold him guilty

57:12

because for

57:14

him, he was trying to

57:17

minimize the conflict in the home

57:19

that he was in. When

57:21

it comes to adults, an adults,

57:24

an adult and a child as a child,

57:27

I want to have the parents

57:29

to perform correctly or

57:32

properly or the way that I want them to feel.

57:34

But if the dynamics does not provide

57:36

for that, what do

57:39

I do? Do I leave my now

57:42

home for the one.

57:45

I wouldn't have wanted that either, because that would

57:47

not have been the right way

57:49

when you can't put the one first because we're

57:51

always doing trade office basically what

57:53

I'm saying, Sometimes

57:56

you can make the compromise, but sometimes

57:58

you can't if you selected a partner

58:00

who really is not on board. Now, one of the things

58:03

that my mother did when she married my stepfather,

58:05

she told me, I come as a package

58:07

deal. Amen. If you do

58:09

not accept my full package,

58:12

you don't accept me you don't accept me. That's

58:15

different. Yeah. Everyone,

58:18

do not put that

58:21

that front street. Yeah, you know, make

58:23

that a part of the deal. They do

58:25

not propose that. They go

58:28

for Okay, I want you, you want

58:30

me, we'll get married and then we'll work everything

58:32

out on the back end. You know, you need

58:35

to actually have that on the front end. And I

58:37

think to just go a step deeper our community.

58:40

You know, like this is credo in the black

58:43

community is there is no child

58:45

who is just somebody child. A

58:47

black child is everybody's child.

58:50

If I see a kid walking down the street and this

58:52

code ain't got a hat on, I'm like that maybe need

58:54

a hat on.

58:55

You know, my grandmother every

58:57

child was hers.

58:58

You know, every child you have right to get gathered

59:01

to parents if they weren't doing something

59:03

right on the playgrounds, Black parents,

59:05

everybody, every black child on there is their responsibility.

59:08

So it's just striking to me to see

59:10

this man publicly discard

59:13

his children. It's just so unfortunate.

59:16

But I think to your point, though, doctor Joy, put

59:18

the kids first.

59:19

That's what it's about.

59:20

I think what you're saying, and listen, area, you

59:22

gave us a whole psaut.

59:27

I think that's lazy. And then I think

59:29

it doesn't matter how the parents fell out.

59:32

Kids benefit if both parents

59:34

can be in their life positively.

59:36

Because I'm not saying to have someone around who's you know, doing

59:39

doing the worst. But if two positive parents

59:41

can stay in child's life even after

59:43

separating, the statistics are

59:45

just different. Child. That's what it's supposed to

59:47

be about. You're supposed to want better for your kids. My

59:49

time is going to end. My only job

59:51

is to make sure they turn out to be good people. So

59:54

I need to do whatever I can and put as many people

59:56

in their path that gives them the best odds to

59:58

be good people. Yeah, that's why I

1:00:00

I love that.

1:00:01

I agree.

1:00:01

Well, I thank you ladies

1:00:04

for sharing your stories. I

1:00:06

really hope you know this is a show that centers

1:00:08

black women.

1:00:10

Each week.

1:00:10

I have an elder, a younger, and me, but

1:00:13

I welcome black men and

1:00:15

really all men, everybody. You know, we

1:00:18

censor black women. We're not exclusively for black

1:00:20

women. I think there's something to be learned from these conversations,

1:00:22

and I truly hope fathers hear what you

1:00:25

both share, because what we want to say to

1:00:27

you men is you are needed. We need

1:00:29

our fathers. You have such

1:00:32

an important role to play in our lives and determine

1:00:34

how we interact with other men, how

1:00:37

we interact with platonic friendships.

1:00:39

But like I said, the most important

1:00:41

role is how we interact with ourselves and our

1:00:44

relationship with our parents. Both mother and father

1:00:46

play a significant role. So I want

1:00:48

to salute all the dads, biological

1:00:51

or otherwise who are out there doing the

1:00:53

damn thing handling your business. We see

1:00:55

you, we honor you, and thank you for that.

1:00:57

And for those of you who are not, it is never too If

1:01:00

you have been absent for weeks

1:01:03

or years or decades, pick

1:01:05

up the phone, make that call, do

1:01:07

the outreach, find your children and

1:01:09

build that relationship, and stand firm

1:01:12

and strong when your kids have to

1:01:14

confront you with the absentee

1:01:17

challenges they've had. Yes, in your

1:01:19

absence, they have gone through things, and so you

1:01:21

have to be prepared to say that face

1:01:23

that receive it. But there is joy

1:01:26

on the other side of that. So

1:01:28

thank you all for tuning into this episode

1:01:30

of Across Generations.

1:01:31

I think my.

1:01:31

Guests cam being so transparent in your

1:01:34

stories, and I thank

1:01:36

you all for let me tell all my business yet

1:01:38

days of this episode and we'll see you

1:01:40

next time. Across Generations

1:01:43

is brought to you by Wilpacker and Wilpacker Media

1:01:45

in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, I'm

1:01:47

Your Host and executive producer Tiffany

1:01:50

d Cross from Idea to Launch

1:01:52

Productions Executive producer Carla

1:01:54

Willmeret. Produced by Mandy

1:01:56

Be and Angel Forte. Editing

1:01:58

Down Design and mixed by Gaza Forte.

1:02:01

Original music by Epidemic Sound

1:02:03

Video editing by Kaithon Alexander

1:02:06

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