0:08

Hello everyone, and welcome to the

0:10

Aftershock Bonus episode

0:12

where we get to go behind the scenes of

0:14

season two of this incredible podcast

0:16

from iHeartRadio with some of the cast

0:19

and creators of Aftershock.

0:21

My name is Noel Brown. I am the show's executive

0:24

producer for iHeartRadio as well as

0:26

a fan, and I was lucky enough to be

0:28

joined by Janelle Parish, Tati,

0:30

Gabrielle Kelly, who and

0:32

Sarah Wayne Cally's. Janelle

0:34

plays Ley in the show. Tati of

0:37

course plays Mikayla, Kelly plays

0:39

Hua Nani aka Auntie, and

0:41

Sarah plays Cassie Wallace in addition

0:43

to being the creator of the show. So,

0:46

without further ado, let's get right into this

0:48

roundtable discussion on Aftershock

0:50

season two.

0:58

So, Sarah, season two drops

1:00

us right into the water, literally.

1:03

Can you start us off by just giving us a

1:05

little bit of a recap like previously

1:07

on Loss, previously on Aftershock, where

1:10

are we picking up in season two

1:12

from season one?

1:14

We're picking up season two

1:18

maybe thirty seconds

1:20

before season one ends. So

1:23

season one ends, we see Cassie

1:25

paddle off. We don't really

1:27

know what happens to her. We stay

1:29

with Wayne and Dover and then we

1:32

end with Mikayla and Ley,

1:35

and you don't really know where Cassie is in the whole

1:38

giant, explosive catoch

1:40

mess of it all. So season

1:42

two we pick up with here's

1:45

where Cassie was moments

1:48

before everything quite

1:51

literally blue sky high,

1:53

and we follow her kind

1:57

of on her journey to try and find Mikayla.

2:01

So with the second chapter, now,

2:04

can you talk a little bit about what you learned

2:06

from season one and how you're carrying

2:08

those experiences from the

2:11

earthquake to the island.

2:15

I think probably the biggest thing I learned

2:17

from season one is that it's a really dumb

2:20

idea to try and do it all by yourself. It

2:23

accurate, It was just

2:26

so much more work than

2:28

I think any of us anticipated. I mean, you know,

2:30

my producing partner Ben was like, oh,

2:32

I'm going to drown in logistics

2:35

and edits and trying

2:37

to get people in the same room at the same time. And

2:41

so, you know, one of the first things

2:43

that I wanted to do when the second season came

2:45

up was I wanted help.

2:49

I needed more thoughts and more voices

2:52

in the writing and the creating

2:54

of things, and so I reached out to Tati, and I was

2:56

like, hey, would you help me break this season? And

2:59

can we talk about these

3:01

characters and where they should go and

3:05

and you know, we'll start with my bad

3:07

ideas and then you can help me clean

3:10

them up.

3:12

There are no bad ideas.

3:13

There are no bad ideas.

3:16

Well, Taki, what was that like for you? Going

3:18

from you know, acting and being you know cast

3:21

for season one to then getting the opportunity

3:24

to help guide the direction

3:26

of season two? That must have been a really cool opportunity.

3:28

Yeah, like it was. I mean, first off, I

3:31

was so honored, like so honored

3:33

that that Sarah would ask that of me, and and

3:36

that she considered my ideas

3:38

to be good ones, and

3:41

it was. It was really awesome

3:43

too from from a perspective

3:45

because for me, I I've always

3:47

wanted to you know, produce and make things,

3:49

and so I feel like Sarah is such a good

3:52

mentor and guide for that. And

3:54

so just to sit and like riff

3:56

things, I mean, she came with, you know, really

3:59

solid key things to start from,

4:01

like the idea of land rights and

4:04

uh land rights civil rights

4:06

and this I

4:10

forget the word that you used towards here, but

4:16

this idea of how

4:20

do I put that back in towards

4:24

of I guess the meaning for living

4:26

and why people choose to like sort of

4:28

go on, and

4:30

so just starting to like riff

4:33

and and and I don't know, like

4:36

find things think about each character individually

4:39

and what it

4:42

what the like real circumstances of everything

4:44

would be like away from like when

4:47

it came to Cassie and how she's dealing with

4:49

not only uh, the

4:51

the death like the death of Lawrence

4:54

and revisiting that, but how is

4:56

she carrying a whole you know, carrying this

4:58

child that is Mikayla and trying

5:00

to make a better life for her, and

5:02

then as well as the guilt

5:05

of what one would experience in taking

5:07

a life, trying to

5:09

just like be as as

5:12

grounded and as as grounded

5:16

and forthright with these characters as

5:18

possible.

5:20

And you had you had a lot of great

5:23

questions too, you know, like

5:25

we would stumble into something and you would

5:27

you had a lot of like, well what if we think about it from

5:29

this perspective. But the other thing

5:31

that I think you did that I was so grateful

5:34

for, and

5:36

this is to me, I think a part of a slightly bigger

5:38

thing generationally is

5:41

you just had more guts. I'd be like, I'm

5:43

afraid to do this. You're like, Okay, don't

5:46

be I was like, yeah,

5:48

but I've been in this business

5:50

for so long with people screaming in my

5:52

you know, like nobody cares about Hawaiian

5:54

nobody cares about

5:57

And you were like, right, or just

6:00

write the show that

6:03

feels honest that

6:05

we're stumbling towards.

6:07

Isn't that part of the beauty of podcasting too,

6:09

that you don't have as many people screaming at you

6:11

and that you can really tell your story and

6:14

do it the way you want to do it without having

6:16

to know cowchow to executives.

6:18

I mean, I'm your executive on this, and

6:21

I don't think I gave a single note,

6:23

and I'll tell you why that is. I certainly

6:25

do when there's issues, but there's

6:27

no issues. You guys are creative

6:29

partners that I trust implicitly,

6:32

and aside from just making sure

6:34

that you have everything you need, I don't need to interfere.

6:37

And I think that's generally kind of the way podcasting

6:40

works for the most part. So that must have been liberating

6:42

for you from season one to season two and just

6:44

coming from legacy television production.

6:47

It must be a real breath of fresh air.

6:50

Well, you know, I mean I think we've

6:52

probably all had the experience of being on

6:54

shows getting a script

6:57

going. I wonder what the thought was behind

7:00

this choice for this character I've now been

7:02

playing for thirty episodes, and

7:05

I kind of wonder why nobody asked,

7:09

and so, like, you know, Jenelle and I

7:12

got on the phone, you

7:14

know once, Taty and I had kind of broken stuff, and I was like,

7:16

how does this land with you?

7:17

Does this feel right?

7:18

Does this feel like the

7:20

place that you would be coming

7:22

from? And there were a

7:24

couple of questions that came out of that that I was like, oh, yeah,

7:27

that's right. We gotta loop

7:29

that kind of thing in and it feels like.

7:32

Done right. This can

7:34

be a team sport truly.

7:37

Just I remember when you called me, I

7:40

was like, this is amazing. Nobody

7:42

ever asks really what the actor wants

7:46

and what the actor would do with

7:48

their character, and so to have that amazing

7:51

collaborative conversation with you, I was like,

7:53

this is a dream. I wish every director

7:56

would ask that because it

7:58

it also like you said questions up

8:00

for me where I was like, how do I feel

8:03

about that as opposed to just getting the

8:05

script and then being like, well, I'll put my spin on it.

8:07

When you were like, how would you feel if Lay

8:09

said this or Lay did that? Does what feels

8:11

organic to you? It made me really

8:13

think too, which was really great

8:15

and really unique.

8:19

That almost feels more like the way films were made in

8:21

the seventies, where there was a lot more kind of method,

8:23

kind of conversations around motivation and

8:26

stuff like that. It's almost become a cliche where it's like, what's my

8:28

motivation? But in podcasting, because

8:30

you can be so nimble and work so quickly, you

8:32

have time to have those kinds of conversations, and I

8:34

think that yields a rewarding experience

8:37

for the actors and for the listeners because

8:40

these things have been discussed and you don't

8:42

have just some guy writing

8:44

a script about a person or a

8:46

culture or whatever that he has no idea about.

8:49

You're actually contributing the people that

8:51

are involved. I think is really really important. So

8:54

Aftershock, along with a lot of fiction

8:56

podcasts regular podcasts, as a

8:58

podcast producer and host, I

9:00

had to convert dozens of podcasts

9:03

to remote home recording. During COVID

9:05

lockdown. I distinctly

9:07

remember last season talking

9:09

about one member of the cast literally having to record

9:12

in the trunk of their car because

9:14

they didn't have studio space and they like covered

9:17

themselves in blankets. Just

9:21

first of all, what a hero

9:23

like to go through all that? What

9:26

have they gotten? Locked in the trunk? I mean,

9:28

and no one was around it?

9:29

What he did?

9:30

He had he had to text his wife be

9:32

like, you got to let me out of the trunk.

9:34

You're you're scooping my whole question. But I'm

9:36

sorry, you're creating an even

9:38

more interesting story from this question.

9:40

But the real question is, though obviously

9:43

that was difficult at best,

9:46

but now with season two, we didn't

9:48

have to do any of that stuff. Things they are largely

9:50

normal ish. What

9:53

how did everyone that was on season one

9:55

that is now on season two feel

9:58

about the way things went? And was it

10:00

liberating to not have to do that? Was there something

10:02

weirdly creatively intriguing

10:05

about having all of those like roadblocks

10:08

sometimes, you know, limitations are interesting.

10:10

I'm just curious about all of you, all three

10:13

of you who are on season one, what

10:16

working on season two without those problems

10:20

was, like, well,

10:22

I would say let's start. We've heard

10:24

from Sarah, and we've heard from Tati.

10:27

Let's start with Janelle.

10:30

It was definitely interesting recording

10:32

season one from my closet, and

10:36

it was my first scripted podcast

10:39

as well, so it was like truly a learning

10:41

experience, but you're you're doing it, you

10:43

know, inside of your clothes, trying

10:45

to muffle the sounds. But

10:48

it added to the

10:51

experience and how different and fun

10:53

and strange it is to do something

10:55

like that.

10:56

But season two was was so much

10:58

fun to.

10:58

Be able to actually be physically in the room

11:01

with some of the actors. And

11:03

also just like, you know, you listen to season one

11:05

and I'm doing scenes with people that

11:08

I haven't even met in person, and so I remember when Tati

11:10

came in, it was like.

11:11

Hi, oh my gosh, I get to see you

11:13

in person.

11:14

I'm actually looking at your face while we say

11:16

our lines together, and that was so

11:18

special and it just just kind of like

11:20

switches up the energy a little bit when you

11:22

have another actor in the room with you,

11:25

you know, physically doing scenes with you. So

11:28

it really was kind of cool just having two

11:30

totally different experiences from season one and

11:32

season two.

11:34

I'm always blown away when I hear about the way

11:36

like animation voiceover is done where

11:38

like no one ever meets each other and

11:40

they're just doing their bits, and somehow the end

11:42

product you see. You'd never know that,

11:45

And that's all credit to amazing editors

11:47

and sound designers and all of that good.

11:48

Stuff, and directors, by the way, the director,

11:52

because when you don't hear the other person, and

11:54

then the director has to tell you how

11:56

the scene, you know, what the tone of the scene

11:58

is, and how the other care you're read their

12:00

lines.

12:01

So yeah, you rely aloud on your director.

12:03

I bet often they'll do a line reading counter

12:05

to you to help you kind of react, you

12:08

know, And that's it's mind blowing

12:10

to me. So it's almost like this

12:12

is real acting. You're in the room together, you're

12:14

responding. It's like playing a scene

12:17

rather than just doing like a video game or something.

12:20

So that's that makes a lot of sense.

12:23

How about we hear from you now, tATu.

12:25

What was your experience like doing

12:27

season two in the ways that it

12:29

was different from doing season one, like presumably

12:32

in your closet or a car, you

12:34

know, a trunk or whatever it might have been.

12:36

Yeah, it was like I mean,

12:38

like Janelle said, it definitely made it first

12:41

season like very fun and interesting to have

12:43

to do things like from a closet and sort of work

12:45

it out everything I remembered, even

12:47

the last episode, I was in a different house and I was crunched

12:50

in the bottom of a closet trying to record

12:52

fun. But

12:56

this season I had like I

12:58

got to do like I guess, like half and half because I

13:00

was I did half the season recording from

13:03

home because I was in London, which was still

13:06

tricky to work out, but it made it such

13:08

like a relief and a joy once I did get

13:10

in the room with like to know and what like

13:12

being like like she said, like just it

13:15

makes it feel more real and more in the moment,

13:17

and I feel like you can connect better

13:19

than through a screen and there's not you know,

13:21

freezing and starts and stops.

13:24

But you go, it's

13:28

happening right now.

13:29

It's happening like and and like I

13:31

mean to to to Sarah's credit

13:33

as well, like it even in the times

13:35

when we weren't able to, like you know, with scheduling and

13:37

things get to be even

13:39

on FaceTime 're zooming

13:42

with the people that we had to be

13:44

in scenes with like just having Sarah

13:47

as a reader for fort like, oh

13:49

man, having an actor as a director

13:52

is the best thing.

13:52

And oh

13:55

my.

13:55

God, because not only

13:58

yeah, like not only do they understand

14:01

everything that that you're going through

14:03

like and are able to to speak

14:05

to you from from that place and not like

14:07

this.

14:08

Like god like space

14:11

away that that's not that

14:13

has.

14:13

No idea what it is that's happening in

14:15

the mind to try to get there, but too, like

14:18

to have some like in the voice over space, to have somebody

14:20

read with you that's actually reading with emotion and

14:22

actually giving you what the context

14:25

is in in real time and not you're

14:27

not having to like, I don't know, sift

14:29

through a description of what's happening.

14:31

Just made it all the all the better.

14:34

Well, and the creator of the world, the

14:36

creator of the character.

14:37

It's exactly.

14:39

Yeah, that's that's obviously the best possible

14:41

situation. Sarah, What was that like

14:43

for you? Obviously there you know, anytime

14:46

you're doing podcasts, there's going to be a hybrid

14:48

kind of approach where sometimes you're in person, sometimes

14:50

you're remote. That's a good thing. It's nice to be able

14:52

to have that flexibility. But how is

14:54

it different for you being able to direct and

14:56

give those line readings and be able to

14:58

enjoy watching people play off each other in

15:00

person versus you know, season one,

15:03

I mean, and season one is amazing. You'd never

15:05

know anybody listened to it listening to it would never

15:07

know. That's how it was made to all of your credit

15:09

and your your editor and sound designer. But what

15:12

was how was having done that, been

15:14

through that experience, how did it

15:16

make season two all the more like freeing

15:19

and exciting?

15:20

Well, you know, I mean, what was funny is after

15:23

shooting most of

15:25

I guess recording most of season one

15:27

during the pandemic, we

15:30

were like, oh, season two, ya, no pandemic,

15:32

except that everybody hauled off

15:34

and.

15:34

Got like twenty percent more famous.

15:40

All of a sudden, Like where's tatioh She's on a

15:42

runway in Paris? Like where's

15:45

Dave? He's on a billboard, Where's she's

15:48

in a musical? Like I was like, wait,

15:50

my cast is now too busy. So

15:53

like I was like, ah, I'm

15:55

so happy that they're all. Like I remember

15:57

trying to find Russell at one point and someone was like,

15:59

he was nominated for an award this morning.

16:01

I was like, I'll call him tomorrow.

16:04

It's everybody was like and by the

16:06

way, trying to get Kelly

16:08

in a studio is like a game of where

16:10

in the world is Carmen san.

16:14

I'm unburning man, I'm gonna

16:16

like. It was just it's amazing. I was just

16:18

like, I don't even know. I don't

16:20

even know. And so what

16:22

was so beautiful is just like, man, everybody's

16:25

killing it.

16:26

But the scheduling

16:29

still required a lot of like, Okay,

16:31

so I'm going to do my best Jeffrey Dean Morgan, sorry,

16:33

guys, like you know this, so

16:36

we're an impression.

16:37

I'm ready, let's go, let's go.

16:39

So I don't have a pack of cigarettes and a diet coke

16:41

with me at the moment, so

16:43

I can't quite but

16:46

no, I mean it.

16:46

Really, it really was. It's

16:49

such like it's.

16:51

This constant sense of just overwhelming

16:53

gratitude because nobody is

16:56

doing this because it's gonna like win

16:58

them an Oscar.

17:00

I mean like you could win a potty, you

17:02

can win you know, a webbie.

17:04

But nobody's agents are like you, guys,

17:06

you gotta do this.

17:07

This is going to change your career.

17:09

It's just everybody's doing it for

17:11

love and for kindness, and I

17:13

didn't actually, of all the people that I

17:16

knew before this show, you

17:19

three, Tati and

17:21

Janelle and Kelly are the three

17:23

that I didn't know.

17:25

And I'm like dying

17:27

to all have dinner.

17:28

Like I'm so deeply grateful for this incredible

17:31

happened.

17:32

Cadre of brilliant women.

17:34

We tried in different places,

17:36

and now I'm moving to Vegas.

17:39

Kelly in Vegas, Come

17:42

to Vegas.

17:42

Come, let's let's do it at my house, bring

17:44

an air mattress.

17:48

I love it.

17:51

It is fascinating though, because even with

17:54

as nimble as podcast production is,

17:57

with people that are busy, it's still about

17:59

wrangling scale and stuff. But you do have

18:01

to appreciate that it's definitely different than

18:03

getting someone on a call sheet showing

18:05

up, you know, at a place and wherever.

18:08

You know. You can make these things happen between

18:10

projects, and I think that's one of the beautiful

18:12

things about you know, fiction podcasts, is

18:15

you can do it and you're doing it out of love,

18:17

but also you can do it between stuff.

18:19

It's possible to do.

18:20

That, and you can do it during

18:22

stuff. I mean, you know, people would

18:24

come in on like days off and stuff, and

18:27

like you said earlier, you know you can take swings

18:29

that like I don't know that there's

18:31

a studio.

18:32

Then.

18:32

Now this is pre Maui, when all of a sudden, like

18:35

for a minute, the Hawaiian Islands

18:37

and you know, issues of land and

18:39

water really had everybody's attention. But I

18:42

don't know that there's anybody that would have let us do what

18:44

we did with Janelle's

18:46

character and with Kelly's character, and with Branscomb's

18:49

character, and you know, like that

18:52

that is something that we got to do because

18:55

this is a somewhat incubational,

18:57

experimental.

18:58

Space mention,

19:00

something that just kind of got my brain going,

19:03

the idea of, oh, there's this horrible

19:05

tragedy in the news. Now this thing

19:08

is hot, let's do a thing about

19:10

that. It's an awful perspective, but

19:12

it exists in executives, and it's a

19:14

thing that we all probably run into. You

19:18

all have been doing this podcast,

19:20

several of you have connections to

19:22

Hawaii. Janelle, Kelly, and Sarah are all from

19:24

Hawaii, and Hawaii plays a large

19:27

part in this season. Of

19:29

course. Offering my deepest respects to you

19:31

and your family and friends. With the Lahaina

19:34

tragedy, but Native Hawaii so

19:36

often does get overlooked in entertainment.

19:40

And again I started this question because

19:42

of the whole idea of it. Executives say, well, and we got

19:44

to do a thing. Now, let's fast track this because of

19:46

this horrible thing in the news that is obviously

19:49

not any of y'all's perspective.

19:51

This is about telling its story because

19:53

of your love for the place. But

19:56

let's start with this. How do you feel about that

19:59

kind of press sure to do

20:01

a thing that maybe would have been overlooked

20:03

previously, but now all of a sudden, something bad

20:05

has happened, and there are people out there

20:07

in Hollywood and wherever who want to capitalize on

20:09

that. Sara, I'd love to hear from you first.

20:13

It's such an interesting question.

20:14

I mean, the thing about Hawaii, I

20:16

think is really complicated because it

20:18

occupies a place in the American imagination

20:21

that I think is very singular. Most

20:24

people in the mainland have been raised to believe that

20:26

Hawaii exists to entertain them, a

20:28

little bit like Disneyland, you know. And I

20:31

don't know, Janelle and Kelly, I'd be curious to

20:33

hear what you think about this.

20:34

But the number of people.

20:35

That I know in my life with all

20:37

the love in the world, are just like, you

20:40

don't understand Hawaii so special to me.

20:41

It means so much to me. And I

20:44

completely agree.

20:46

But sometimes the flip side of that comes

20:49

with a and I'm entitled

20:52

to spend my vacations

20:54

at the Four Seasons on the Naty

20:57

and never engage with the

21:00

stories of the land, or maybe never even

21:02

meet.

21:05

Or or even by land,

21:08

you know out there, giant

21:11

giant, you know, pieces

21:14

of land, and

21:17

not actually engage

21:19

with Hawaiians or understand

21:21

the culture. Just kind of blocking off

21:23

your own little plot of land and

21:25

building a wall, and you know, living

21:28

as a foreigner, as a howe on

21:31

Hawaiian land without

21:33

you know, really understanding what

21:36

Hawaii is made of, you

21:38

know, because it's so much more than hula

21:40

girls and you know, my ties.

21:43

I don't think my ties is even from Hawaii.

21:45

But I mean, but it's in the Hawaiian language,

21:47

so right, it's it's it's

21:50

the.

21:52

Hawaii has such a deep,

21:55

rich culture and history. I

21:58

was just watching this thing on Instagram

22:00

today about how you

22:02

know this this guy was talking about how his mom,

22:06

you know, they were chanting.

22:08

Away the ghosts that.

22:10

Were coming, you know, like from the mountains

22:13

all the way down into this one

22:15

hole inside you

22:18

know, that went into the hole into

22:20

the land, and then they put this big boulder

22:22

to lock all them, all the spirits

22:24

inside, and you know, it's like

22:27

that's the stuff that that's that Hawaii

22:29

is made out of. You know, it's

22:31

not just it's not just the tourists

22:34

stuff that you see and you know,

22:36

the pretty beaches and whatnot. It's

22:39

the culture is so deep and

22:41

people don't even try

22:43

to scratch the surface of figuring

22:46

out what Hawaii is really.

22:48

About here here, and

22:50

I really loved Sarah about specifically

22:54

this season as well, like.

22:55

You really tap into what it's like to

22:58

be.

23:00

Hannai family, right, Like we

23:02

talk about my character and how I say, like, but

23:05

am I is it my place to even

23:07

talk about our culture if I don't

23:10

have Native blood? And I love that

23:12

you talk to me about that because I'm from Hawaii,

23:14

but I don't have Native blood. But I very

23:16

much feel like it's part of my culture because

23:18

I grew up there and I know the

23:20

culture and I know the aloha

23:23

spirit that comes from a place like

23:25

that, and how proud we all

23:27

are to be from this wonderful

23:29

place and how that connects us right,

23:32

and you talk about all these things that

23:34

are so real and so relatable to

23:36

someone like me too, where it's.

23:37

Like, oh, I can I talk about

23:39

that?

23:40

Like is that okay for me to say that I'm from Hawaii

23:42

but I don't have Hawaiian blood? Like, well, people

23:45

not accept me then as somebody who

23:48

you know is from the land. And

23:50

you brought up all of these things that kind

23:53

of felt scary to talk about but felt

23:55

so liberating to also talk about and

23:58

is so real and like

24:00

Kelly said, like I think a lot of people when they think

24:02

of Hawaii, they think like, oh, like

24:04

you said to Sarah, like, oh, it's a special to me, it's

24:07

just like so beautiful and I had a great vacation

24:09

there.

24:09

But there's so much more to Hawaii.

24:12

It's at a loha spirit, it's that family, it's that

24:14

culture, and you really

24:16

got to help us explain

24:19

that and explore that in this season, Sarah and I

24:21

that was one of my favorite things about this season

24:23

personally.

24:25

Well you know, I got to say a lot of it came from

24:28

a mistake. So I've

24:33

been connecting a little bit with anti poola case

24:36

who's for people who don't know her,

24:38

just an extraordinary land

24:41

defender and force for protecting

24:43

Montca and and Kuma

24:46

Hula and and and.

24:47

On and on and on and on and on. She's tremendous.

24:50

And her daughter is also this amazing

24:53

activist and musician and all these things.

24:55

And I reached out to her at a certain point and I said, hey, listen,

24:58

can I talk to you about a few things going going

25:00

on in season two because I want to make sure that I get

25:02

them right, Because you

25:04

know, you talk about like trying

25:06

to figure out where you belong in Hawaii, right, Like

25:09

I'm a howygirl from punto Ho.

25:10

My parents are from the mainland, like.

25:13

You know, I don't. I don't

25:15

belong in Hawaii. It's just

25:17

that I was raised there and the

25:20

land became accidentally a third

25:22

parent to me, And so I feel a responsibility

25:25

to try and treat it with a certain amount of respect

25:27

and tell.

25:29

Some of those stories that I think are someone represented.

25:31

And so I'm talking to Antipoa and she

25:34

she.

25:35

Goes, wait, wait, wait, wait, back up.

25:37

So

25:39

she takes she plants the flag

25:42

for the Hawaiian people on

25:44

the island. I said, yeah, yeah, it's a Pacific

25:46

island. She goes, wait, but it's

25:50

next to California, right, And

25:53

as soon as she said it, my stomach turned to water

25:55

and I was like, oh

25:58

my god, I'm mad at youography

26:00

too. So

26:02

Hawaii is two thousand miles away from the coast of

26:04

California, right, geographically most isolated.

26:07

Seems California esque.

26:09

You know this place is you

26:11

know, we said thirteen nautical miles and I was

26:13

like, oh my god.

26:13

And she goes, it's okay, you can just change it, and I said, no, sure,

26:16

can't. It's out. Season one is

26:18

out.

26:19

And I was like, let me, let me think about this, let

26:21

me figure out a way to make this right. And

26:24

I went inside to my husband and I was like, hey,

26:26

I did that thing that white people do when they try and do the right

26:29

thing and they fuck it up worse.

26:31

And he was like, uh.

26:32

Huh, so what's the fix. And

26:34

I was like, give me a minute. And I thought, well,

26:36

maybe maybe this is Lay's journey of

26:40

you come at this with the best intentions,

26:43

trying to do the right thing, and

26:47

you fail.

26:47

This is the mistake you were referencing e.

26:49

This is the.

26:49

Mistake and so, but

26:52

you turned it into such a beautiful and honest

26:54

and that's beautiful.

26:56

And of course you're coming at it from a place of honesty

26:58

and truth, and you never would have done anything

27:01

to be intentionally offensive or

27:03

you know, dismissive.

27:04

Yeah, but that's something that actually I

27:06

think as white folks, we got to stop letting ourselves

27:09

off the hook for I accidentally

27:12

make it worse.

27:13

But this time, at least it could become a story

27:15

point.

27:15

And that and that's and like, good on

27:17

you for that, like for recognizing

27:20

that mistake and as opposed to being like, okay,

27:22

I forgive myself and just kind of letting it go. Like

27:25

it's like you, I mean, the fact that it's

27:28

sort of still weighs on you, but that you made

27:30

direct action to try to correct

27:33

it exactly, and to to

27:35

to correct it and to then pass an even

27:37

broader message to the rest of the

27:39

world through through the work itself

27:42

of what needs to be done when these mistakes

27:44

are made.

27:44

Oh that feels I

27:47

know.

27:47

No, it's beautiful. As

27:49

a relatively, I wouldn't count myself

27:51

entirely oblivious, but you know, white dude,

27:54

it was the white lotus season that really

27:56

truly kind of hipped me to a lot of the stuff

27:58

you guys are talking about. But I heard after

28:00

the fact that it was kind of like I rolled

28:03

a little bit by native Hawaiians

28:05

or people that are from there. Did y'all have any perspective

28:07

on how that satirical show

28:10

handled the perspective of the way

28:12

that island has been co opted. Do you

28:14

think they got it right? Do you think it was a little

28:17

on the nose? We don't have to use

28:19

this. I'm just curious.

28:20

It's okay, I don't kell you want to you want to

28:22

hit that, I've got it.

28:23

I saw first season curious.

28:24

I mean there

28:26

were not really Hawaiian

28:29

characters, right, I mean.

28:31

Just that one Kai, Yeah, just that

28:33

one.

28:34

But you

28:37

know, I guess that's that's

28:39

just another example of Hollywood

28:41

coming in, using this beautiful scenery

28:44

to make this story and not really

28:47

getting deep. But I mean, I

28:51

it's not I get it. It's not about Hawaii. It's

28:53

about the tourists that come right

28:55

that show. It's really, you

28:57

know, Hawaii's just the backdrop.

29:08

There is a line in episode one that truly

29:10

resonates I think with just about anybody

29:13

that might hear it. The idea that being human

29:15

is a revolutionary act these days. And

29:17

Sarah, I believe we talked about this either in

29:20

a conversation outside of the podcast

29:22

or in the bonus episode we did for season one, But I

29:24

would love to hear all of you kind of react to that, because

29:26

that does seem to be kind of the thesis or

29:28

like a big mission statement, the idea

29:31

of truly being human being

29:33

in and of itself a revolutionary act.

29:37

Well, I guess I can start

29:39

with that when like that in which

29:42

this thought had come to me with a previous question,

29:44

but in that idea

29:47

is why Sarah

29:49

I was so adamant

29:52

to you during like the breaking of story of

29:54

like no, you got to just do it,

29:57

because that's true, Like being

29:59

human is is a revolutionary act,

30:01

and it should be that we

30:04

have a that Hollywood

30:08

has become to Barbie

30:11

like and has neglected

30:13

its responsibility to as

30:16

an art form, to reflect the world back at itself

30:19

and to make sure we're keeping tabs on what we're

30:21

doing and where we're going. And so for

30:24

you to not be

30:27

afraid and to just go ahead and say

30:30

some some excuse my friends, say some

30:32

shit that nobody else is willing to say

30:35

is necessary for the human evolution,

30:38

for us to grow, and for us to realize that

30:41

we're never going to get anywhere as

30:43

a as a species, as a culture,

30:45

as a society. If we choose

30:47

to be safe and be quiet, we

30:50

will all the issues

30:52

and problems that we have will never will

30:56

always be touched on or or always

30:59

be be sort of uh

31:03

acknowledged but not

31:08

not made actionable, if that makes

31:10

sense. It's

31:14

it's our our our I just always feel

31:16

like it's our duty as humans too in

31:19

everything that we do to move us

31:21

forward, so that like I always think about, like I want

31:24

my kids to be able to play outside. I want

31:26

my kids to be able to to see

31:28

a world that is better than the world

31:30

that I had, and not by the means

31:32

of materialism, but by the means of what they're

31:35

able to experience and what they're

31:37

able to think and what they're able to do.

31:41

So yeah, yeah,

31:44

I'm just I'm just I'm just really happy

31:47

Sarah that you you decided

31:49

to be like fuck it,

31:53

let's go.

31:55

And at the end of the day, this is a

31:57

post apocalyptic show which

31:59

inherently has a certain amount of nihilism

32:01

to it, where It's like the world is unsavable,

32:04

but through the characters and the actions

32:06

of the characters, there is a certain amount

32:09

of hope to it. And I think you can through

32:11

a post apocalyptic show, express

32:13

that sentiment of how the world is worth

32:16

saving, you know, through that situation

32:18

where everyone's kind of in the most dire

32:20

circumstances they might ever find themselves in.

32:22

Sarah, can you kind of speak to that, you know,

32:25

I mean the idea of how with

32:27

everything going on in the news and the world, how

32:30

do we find a way forward in a way

32:32

to not just get overwhelmed by

32:34

sadness and all of the bad things

32:37

and you know, all of the next bad things that could

32:39

come.

32:40

It's such a good question, and I mean, I

32:43

think in some ways writing

32:45

this is be fumbling for an answer. I

32:49

do believe that being human and being humane

32:52

feels like a revolutionary actor right now. And

32:54

I think that maybe one

32:56

of the greatest

32:59

DeFi that we face as a culture is a

33:01

dearth of civility, you know,

33:03

like I remember the

33:06

moment when people

33:08

stopped talking to each other based

33:11

on their politics. It wasn't like that when I

33:14

was growing up, but it was during the Second Bush presidency

33:16

when you know, people started feeling

33:18

like they're coming for me or their whatever, and

33:21

like, I don't

33:23

know, it's really hard, it's really

33:25

hard, and I don't have an answer. But I do think

33:29

that our ability to sit with difference

33:32

and sit with disagreement and

33:35

to be able to say I think differently from you.

33:37

That doesn't mean I'm going.

33:39

To ostracize you.

33:42

That's really hard for me sometimes to

33:44

do, but I think that's a part of it. And I

33:46

think what's interesting about post apocalyptic

33:48

stories is it does often make strange

33:50

bedfellows, you.

33:52

Know, because everyone's in the worst possible situation

33:54

they could be, and it reveals their true self.

33:57

And then you either have the opportunity to become the villain

33:59

or you have the opportunity to

34:01

be a great connector and truly

34:04

see what the essence of being human

34:06

is.

34:06

And I think so much of what Antie's character was about.

34:09

Yeah, I think that we saw

34:12

a little bit of this in

34:15

twenty twenty when when you

34:17

know, when COVID happened, right you,

34:21

I mean, yes, there was still a lot

34:23

of politics involved, still a great

34:25

divide, but you saw

34:28

what people were really made out of, Right,

34:30

there were those who just locked themselves

34:32

up and tried to save as much toilet paper

34:34

as they could.

34:35

And you know, like really hoarded

34:38

and stuff. And then there were those.

34:40

Who were like like running

34:42

for the front line. How can I help

34:45

where the food banks? How can I help pass

34:47

out food to people who cannot leave their

34:49

homes? You know, that's where you saw

34:52

like people's real character and

34:54

what they were made out of, you know, what

34:56

they were about. And

34:58

so I feel like this was

35:01

that was sort of our mini you

35:03

know, post apocalyptic moment,

35:06

right where you saw who

35:08

was banning together, who was willing

35:10

to work together, and who was just like I'm

35:12

saving myself and

35:15

uh and I think that you know

35:17

this this this this

35:20

podcast really kind of shows a

35:22

lot of those personalities, right those who

35:25

was it that like is trying to take over

35:27

or save themselves and who you

35:30

know, reached out as a community and said

35:32

how can we help?

35:33

How can we what can we do to save each

35:35

other?

35:36

And what is really good at that?

35:38

Like I remember in the aftermath of

35:40

Maui, there was somebody who the

35:43

the line of fire that somebody posted

35:45

something and they were like, so the Red Cross

35:47

just got here and they realized

35:50

we already did it. Yeah, they were like we

35:52

set up the like I think she called it,

35:54

like local Costco. She's like, yeah, on every street

35:57

corner there's people passing out all

35:59

kinds of things that people need because

36:02

this is who we are, and so like basing,

36:06

you know, like Antie was all about that because

36:08

it was like I knew these women, I grew up with these

36:10

women that you're like, I think I need a oh

36:13

and they it's already in front of you in

36:15

six different flavors, and you're

36:17

like, oh, amazing, thank you. And

36:19

there's that sense of like this community

36:22

problem solving, this community,

36:26

this sense of like, Ohana as very vast.

36:31

You know, it's funny talking about all this

36:33

stuff and like COVID and being such a teachable

36:36

moment that Sarah you I think it was in

36:38

the last time we did one of these. Talked about

36:40

like the movie moment when

36:42

you found out about COVID. You were like at an

36:44

airport or something, and it was like that

36:46

scene where everyone's like, oh no, everything's

36:49

on the news. Now everything's all fucked up. We got

36:51

to figure out how to do it. That was the moment

36:53

I think you decided to do this or it was something around

36:56

that, but it was a very I

36:58

don't know, it was a very intense scene

37:00

that you described, and you did such a good job of

37:02

describing. I'd love if you could quickly just

37:05

tell us what that was again and how you feel

37:07

now having gotten through that and

37:10

still making a you know this this show

37:13

well.

37:13

So the sort of weird thing is so

37:15

that movie moment actually happened in the middle.

37:18

So I finished writing season

37:21

one in December of twenty nineteen, and

37:24

we recorded in the studio

37:27

in LA.

37:27

It was like me and Dave and Joy.

37:31

We did the first three or

37:33

four episodes of our stuff, and

37:36

then COVID

37:38

hit and no, and then I went to New York and

37:41

we did a day in New York in February

37:43

of twenty nineteen with Jeffrey and

37:45

EJ. And so we had about

37:48

the first four episodes in and then

37:50

COVID locked everybody down. And the moment

37:52

that was kind of crazy is I had been in

37:54

La. I was doing press for a show I was on with

37:57

Jeffrey Dean Morgan's wife actually, and I

37:59

was like, I don't like the way this is going. Get

38:02

me out of here, and they were like, you're being ridiculous.

38:04

I was like, no, I really want to be on the next plane.

38:07

So I get on the plane and as the plane

38:09

lands, the captain comes over the whatever

38:12

the system, that's not what

38:14

they call it. Thank you last, it

38:18

says, lady and dumb and welcome to Canada.

38:21

I hope this is a home for you. Because Prime Minister Justin

38:23

Trudeau just announced that the border will close tomorrow,

38:26

and again I had this moment

38:29

of like, I was like, they just closed the border

38:31

between Canada and the United States,

38:34

Like.

38:35

This is one of the friendliest borders.

38:38

So that was a terrifying moment, and that's where we started

38:40

getting in our closets and.

38:43

Recording from there.

38:46

But it was a sort of strange thing because we'd written

38:49

this show about a

38:51

pandemic, and then we had a pandemic.

38:53

That's what it was.

38:54

And somebody, one of

38:56

the cast members in season one was like, hey,

38:59

how about you write season too about me winning the

39:01

lottery.

39:04

You're the damis of podcast

39:06

and this is.

39:07

How it happens.

39:09

So thankfully, I don't think there were any crises

39:12

like what happened in season two, although it was

39:14

interesting that we sort of centered the back half

39:16

of season two on Hawaiian land claims,

39:18

and you know, Maui

39:21

did become land

39:23

in Maui became a pretty central

39:25

issue in the world.

39:26

But I don't think that's our fault.

39:29

Through it, but that kind of but

39:32

through that tragedy, though, a lot of people

39:34

learned right about water rights

39:36

and Maui and you

39:38

know what what corporations

39:41

do to Native Hawaiians

39:43

and other native peoples.

39:45

You know, I think that was important.

39:49

You know that people learned

39:53

why this tragedy happened

39:55

in Lahina and you know

39:57

how

40:00

corporations played a role in you

40:03

know, the lack of water.

40:05

Well even in general, just in terms

40:07

of like the kinds of lessons you can learn from post apocalyptic

40:10

fiction. I just visited the Hoover

40:12

Dam. I was in Vegas for the first time and

40:14

I went with some friends to the Hoover Dam. And

40:16

the film that obviously hasn't changed

40:19

since the sixties, that they

40:21

play before you do the tour. It's very

40:23

propagandistic. It's like it's a triumph of

40:25

the human spirit. We did this with a gazillion

40:27

tons of concrete. But what you realize is

40:29

it's all about harnessing natural resources

40:32

and who gets them, and I was

40:35

I'm fascinated by that in general. And

40:37

you know, one thing, if you've played the Fallout video

40:40

game series, there's an installment

40:42

in it called fall Out New Vegas where the Hoover Dam is

40:44

an important rallying point in a post

40:46

apocalyptic scenario because it will continue

40:48

generating electricity from those rushing

40:51

waters of the Colorado River indefinitely,

40:53

and that's where you want to be because that's where

40:56

the power is, that's where the clean water is.

40:58

And it really makes you realize how we're all kind

41:00

of on the razor's edge of being frozen

41:03

out by the corporations in terms of the natural

41:05

resources in the entire world.

41:07

You know, well, you know, I mean Visa

41:10

that like the whole source of the virus thing

41:13

that came from an article in the La Times. So

41:15

like the millions of barrels

41:17

that were dumped of DDT that were illegally

41:20

dumped off the coasts of California, Like

41:23

that's you know. I remember somewhere

41:25

in the middle of season one, I was like, I'm going

41:27

to have to come up with where there's virus care departments.

41:29

On I'm not gonna be able to punt

41:31

this forever. This isn't

41:33

Lost. I need an answer, and for

41:38

what it's worth, I actually never got to the end.

41:41

Of Lost,

41:41

and.

41:45

I love Josh Holloway.

41:47

I just so, and then it

41:49

just was is still a betrayal one.

41:52

That's That's the thing is like I have never

41:55

seen all of Lost, but Lost fans

41:57

are still mad. There's still

42:00

mad, like a divorce that

42:02

happened fifteen years ago and you lost

42:04

the house and clearly

42:06

for really good reason.

42:07

And I was like, I don't want that to happen to me.

42:09

I realized we only have like six fans,

42:12

but I don't want.

42:13

Them to be like, come now, I.

42:14

Had no plan, you terrible person.

42:16

You had no plan.

42:17

And so I read this article and

42:20

I was like, ooh, that feels

42:22

like the kind of thing that can create some

42:26

awful toxic thing. And so I actually

42:28

put a link in

42:30

my bio from the last week to the La Times

42:33

article and I was like, by the way, there's still

42:35

millions of barrels of daity tea corroding

42:38

off the coast of California.

42:41

You know, well, maybe.

42:43

Dow Chemical or whoever it is it's responsible

42:45

for that, auto like I don't know, clean

42:48

them up. Before

42:51

a pandemic wipes everybody out and sends us

42:53

all to a refugee camp in Catalina.

42:55

No, but

42:58

like for things like I mean, I feel

43:00

like aftershock is a very

43:02

I don't know specific thing to this, but like fork,

43:05

I want to stop saying post apocalyptic

43:07

and say instead, I guess like post

43:10

critical or post crisis, because like I

43:12

don't know, like when it comes to

43:14

like TV and entertainment,

43:16

like I was saying before, like I just feel like less

43:19

are more are people watching. I

43:22

was actually just talking to a friend about this the other day because

43:24

she's like this huge like activist.

43:27

She does a lot. She's an activist, she's a

43:29

connector and whatever she's she gets so angry

43:32

by watching certain shows and

43:34

people just watch it for entertainment. And same

43:36

thing with like people just listen to it for entertainment

43:39

and don't necessarily

43:42

take as much of the message away or take as

43:44

much of like the the impact that it

43:46

can have away. And I feel like when we

43:48

say post apocalyptic, it makes it sound so far

43:50

and like well as if we're not realizing

43:53

halfway like exactly

43:56

we are, but it makes

43:58

it sound so far fetch just post like post

44:00

crisis is like

44:02

like, yeah, like the pandemic happened,

44:05

like Maui happened. Like these

44:07

things are happening and we need to do.

44:09

Better, Trina, I mean exactly.

44:11

Exactly, Like we need to pay closer

44:13

attention to that aftermath and know

44:16

that that and learn from

44:18

that to do even better the next

44:20

time, and for us to rally more together.

44:23

So yeah, I just wanted to say that, no

44:26

more post or blocalyptic like post

44:28

crisis. It's in the now.

44:31

I like that set. Yeah, it holds us

44:33

more accountable. Yes, it

44:35

really does. Thank you for that.

44:37

Well, speaking of a refugee camp,

44:40

this season takes place in a

44:42

refugee camp in part, and it has themes

44:44

of trauma and survivor's guilts.

44:46

And the cast is obviously super

44:48

well, all of you from your various projects

44:51

super well versed in portraying end of the world scenarios.

44:53

But the tensions post disaster

44:56

is something that really resonates

44:58

and feels very connect with our

45:01

collective trauma through COVID,

45:03

you know, through the things you're describing, these are

45:05

all very real news stories. Is

45:08

this something that you were

45:11

drawing on, Sarah, or like, how were

45:13

you drawing on the news and this type of collective

45:15

trauma or how do you kind of couch

45:18

all of that within the narrative of your fictional

45:20

m Well, yeah.

45:21

I mean I think we're all trying to heal right, you know. I

45:23

mean somebody said to me the other day, they were like,

45:25

COVID is a BCAD event. You

45:28

know, there's a before and there's an after culturally

45:30

and individually, and like Kelly you pointed out,

45:33

you know.

45:33

We all.

45:35

We all reacted to it in

45:38

very specific ways, and we all learned a lot about

45:40

ourselves. And

45:43

I think we're still kind of reckoning with

45:46

that and you

45:48

know, trying to build

45:51

rebuild ourselves in positive

45:53

ways. But I think we have an opportunity

45:56

to reimagine

45:59

our culture, right, Like we discovered that we could

46:01

stop our culture.

46:02

On a dime, which was bananas,

46:06

and.

46:06

So if that's possible, then

46:08

it means that we're actually much more agile then

46:11

we have been led

46:14

to believe and allowed ourselves to believe. And it means

46:16

that things that seem impossibly

46:18

entrenched, you know, colonialism

46:21

comes to mind, Like we can actually

46:24

reimagine those things

46:27

pretty competently if we

46:30

decide to.

46:33

Well said Tati,

46:36

your character Mikayla and Sarah's

46:38

character were very much at odds in

46:40

the last season. How

46:42

do you see the evolution of that relationship

46:45

this season and where do you think

46:47

it might go from there?

46:50

Well, it definitely evolved, I think from

46:54

what your previous question just is of one

46:58

sort of driving trauma bonding a way,

47:01

but as well as like Michaela

47:03

having to mature despite being you know, a

47:06

teenager, having to mature and understand the

47:09

the gravitas of the situation, the gravitas

47:11

of of what she's caring, and

47:13

the gratitude to Cassie for

47:17

not only saving

47:19

her life but putting up with her and

47:22

realizing, yeah, realizing

47:25

that that's not a that

47:29

that all adults aren't just

47:32

supposed to do that, like like

47:34

she put Cassie through a lot and Cassie stuck

47:36

by her, and

47:39

so yeah, I think that even

47:42

more so this season, like it forms

47:44

into sort of a true familial

47:47

but slash sort of friendship.

47:50

I was just the other day relistening

47:53

actually to the the second

47:55

to last episode

47:58

where uh, Mikayla

48:00

goes or tries to kill herself, and it's

48:04

I really love this scene that Cassie

48:07

goes to her to get the get her blood

48:09

sample and is not

48:11

trying to sit there and talk her out of

48:14

in the in the conventional way talk her out of killing

48:16

herself. She's just like, hey, look, okay,

48:19

like, if this is what you decide to do, short,

48:21

go ahead and do it. Like just I'm gonna

48:23

remind you that it's not the answer

48:26

and that there's you're it's only

48:28

going to cause worse things. But I'm gonna leave

48:30

you to it, like you got to

48:32

decide. And I think that differently

48:35

than than a parental figure

48:38

would have done. It's it's

48:40

very real, it's very It

48:43

makes Mikayla have to grow even more. And I think,

48:48

yeah, that that Mikayla

48:50

is starting to to regard Cassie

48:53

in this way of she is

48:58

more than just a caretaker, but a

49:00

guide, a soundboard. And

49:03

so I hope to

49:06

to see that continue to form. I

49:09

think in both in both of them they think

49:12

that they give each other they give. It

49:14

goes both ways, and even

49:17

what Michaela makes Cassie considered.

49:20

It.

49:22

So I don't know.

49:24

I look forward to just seeing there that

49:26

friendship sort of grow and blossom, and I

49:29

I'm curious to what it will turn

49:31

into especially one if they do find DeAndre,

49:33

if they are forced

49:35

to be separated. That's what I think. I'm I'm

49:39

most curious.

49:40

To see, Sarah. Can you kind of speak

49:42

to the flip side of that relationship.

49:45

I mean, you know, it started just

49:49

trying to create the most complicated female relationship

49:51

I could imagine, nice.

49:54

And and one that wasn't based

49:56

in boys.

49:58

H You

50:00

know, I've been a stepdaughter,

50:03

I've been an ex stepdaughter, I've been a daughter

50:05

in law, and I think those

50:07

are really complicated relationships because

50:09

mothers come in many different forms, and

50:12

sometimes we are mothered by

50:14

the people who step up, and

50:17

sometimes we're mothered by people that we wouldn't have chosen.

50:21

And certainly, as a mom, I learn

50:24

more than I teach.

50:26

You know, like I'm absorbing

50:28

a lot more, absolutely, because

50:32

I think there's a moment as a parent where you're like, oh

50:34

my god, we all just

50:36

make it up.

50:38

Like I

50:41

think there's going to be this aha moment where you're all

50:43

of a sudden, like perfectly formed to do the

50:45

right thing, yeah, and you just it doesn't happen.

50:47

We're all still twenty one in our minds essentially,

50:50

you know, or younger even and just working

50:52

our way through it and figuring it out and learning as we

50:54

go along.

50:55

Yeah, and so many of the you know, and so many

50:57

I think for a lot of us, so many of the of

50:59

the best lifeless that we learned from our parents were

51:01

okay, So there's the list of what I don't want to do,

51:03

you know what I mean, and like fumbling in the dark

51:06

for some other things, I you know, the

51:08

the relationship that I'm super curious about

51:11

that Tati just mentioned is really like what

51:14

happens when DeAndre ends

51:16

up in this mix and.

51:20

You know, Cassie doesn't belong there.

51:22

Well, to the point of different types

51:25

of motherhood, there's

51:27

a listener question that came in for

51:30

for Tati. Why does Julian call

51:32

Mikayla mammy? It sounds like she's

51:35

calling her his mother.

51:36

Well, mummy is like just with

51:39

then if those who were familiar

51:41

with like Latin culture, it's a term of endearment.

51:45

It's so he yeah, he calls

51:47

Mikaela mummy as a

51:49

as a way of saying like respect,

51:53

Yeah, not I mean not even I guess,

51:55

yes, like respect, but

51:58

also just in it's almost

52:00

in a way like saying uh,

52:03

what's an equivalent I get like, not.

52:05

Is it like anti in Hawaiian, Like

52:08

everybody that is, you

52:10

know, a little bit older but close

52:13

to you is anti.

52:16

Pres Yeah, right, I think mommy

52:18

is more like homie maybe.

52:19

Or something like not even homie, because it's

52:21

more than it's even because he I don't think that Julian would

52:23

have said that to like, I

52:25

don't know another friend of his that was.

52:28

I don't know.

52:28

I guess he still would. It's it's

52:30

just a term of endearment, a term of showing

52:33

love.

52:33

It does seem to indicate that you think this

52:36

person is wise though, or there is

52:38

like an upper like a level of

52:40

intelligence and respect. That that's

52:42

just how it hits me.

52:45

For for listeners, it is worth knowing

52:47

that it's spelled m A M I not

52:50

m O M M y R right, which

52:52

is the big difference I did. I saw a couple of comments

52:54

where people like, why why is it calling her mommy

52:56

like em pronunciation?

52:59

No no, no no, I mean in the show

53:01

people have been asking, and you know, for

53:03

what it's worth, it literally was just a nod to like when

53:05

we were shooting prison Break, I'm out.

53:07

In Olasco exclusively referred

53:09

to me as mummy.

53:10

You'd like, Mommy, come here, I have a question for you, And

53:12

it wasn't It was just like I

53:16

don't, I don't know, I don't. There's not a

53:18

corollary that I can express. But it

53:20

was just sort of a way of saying like, hey,

53:23

you mean something to me.

53:24

We're friend, isn't It kind of like saying

53:26

like babe, like you call.

53:28

Your like has so many negative

53:30

connotations. Now it

53:32

can be not great when you call somebody babe, especially

53:36

that you know.

53:39

Yeah, then then it's a term of endearment. It's

53:41

a way to be like, yeah.

53:43

I have a group of friends in Hawaii. We call each

53:45

other anti. And if

53:47

you were to call somebody else anti, they

53:50

might take it wrong because

53:53

you know, it's not their culture.

53:55

But but me and my girlfriends,

53:58

you know, you're like, hey, auntie, what's

54:00

up?

54:01

How are you doing? It's it's

54:03

very uh. It is a term

54:05

of endearment and.

54:06

Also respect because you respect

54:08

your aunties, right, you respect your

54:10

elders. So even though

54:13

you know they are you

54:15

know, you know they're

54:18

the same age their peers, you know,

54:20

there's still that sort of sense of respect

54:23

and and and warmness

54:25

and cultural, you know, like

54:28

it's I guess they don't have it

54:30

in European culture, where they just do

54:32

that.

54:35

I'm trying to think of an analog. I

54:37

can't really think of what I mean.

54:38

It's a little bit like I think when you talk about the babe

54:41

thing, if Janelle was to call me babe, like

54:43

hey babe, I think it's you know what I mean, coming

54:46

from a.

54:46

Dude a

54:48

little bit different to diferent.

54:51

There's so much nuance to this kind.

54:52

Of thing that's right, and

54:55

it's a nuance that I think you capture beautifully,

54:57

and I think it's so important the way you all

54:59

are clear friends, whether you've had dinner

55:01

with each other in person or not. There is there

55:04

is an energy that is in this

55:06

cast that feels like you're real people having

55:08

real conversations and telling real stories.

55:11

And I just want to applaud all of you for that.

55:13

I think it really reads, as a listener,

55:15

is a beautiful show and you're taking,

55:17

you know, a format that everyone knows and

55:20

has been done to death in some

55:22

ways, but you're doing it in a way

55:24

that really speaks to a much more

55:26

empathetic perspective and a much

55:29

larger you know problem

55:31

you're using this again. I really do think that

55:33

the reason this has been done to death and varying

55:36

degrees of quality is because science

55:38

fiction oftentimes predicts

55:40

what really happens in the world. You know, we've seen it time

55:42

and time again. Nineteen eighty four is real. It's

55:45

out there, it's happening. It's

55:47

bad, but it's a thing.

55:49

And I think you're doing a great job and

55:51

taking a trope that everyone may be recognized

55:54

as and twisting it in a way and making it more about

55:56

family and teaching people about a culture that maybe

55:58

they're not familiar with.

56:00

I feel like though, this is

56:02

sort of a callback to radio

56:04

days, right when there

56:07

was no television and people families

56:09

would gather around the radio and

56:12

listen to actors, you

56:14

know, play out stories. It's

56:17

it's going back to that,

56:20

you know, that sort of just

56:23

sitting around listening, using your

56:25

imagination and

56:28

and being taken on a journey, you

56:31

know. I I although podcasts

56:34

feel like they're new in that way, you

56:37

know, it really is. You know, it's

56:40

really yeah, it was done a

56:42

long time ago, and I'm glad that it's

56:44

coming back. I'm glad that it's it's made a resurgence,

56:47

but it's it's.

56:49

Thrown around is intimate, intimate because

56:52

people in people in your ears. We're talking

56:54

about fiction, we're talking about produced kind of

56:56

like experiential things. But the

56:58

true value of podcast is usually

57:01

I like this person, I like these

57:03

characters. I want to spend time with them because

57:05

they're in my ears and they're my friends. And

57:08

I think that quality that is

57:10

important in podcasts and doesn't always

57:12

happen in fiction podcasts. Y'all

57:14

have figured out how to kind of transcend that in

57:17

fiction podcasts, and I think it's really lovely

57:26

to wrap it up. Honestly, the

57:28

world of Aftershock is super rich,

57:30

as we've clearly described

57:32

in this hour, especially given

57:35

that it has to exist mostly in the listener's

57:37

imagination. I'd love to hear a little bit

57:39

from each of you about how acting

57:41

for audio presents

57:44

challenges and rewards and opportunities

57:46

that are different than when you're acting for

57:48

the camera.

57:51

Well, I remember in my first closet

57:54

session in Reason one.

57:57

You know, I think when you're

57:59

an actor or in general, you sort of have to

58:01

like not take yourself too seriously. But

58:04

here we were in a totally strange

58:06

situation. I'm in my closet in

58:08

a pandemic. I'm pretending I'm

58:10

on a boat paddling with Sarah,

58:13

who I never met in person. You

58:15

know, she's in Canada, and I'm in my

58:17

little box on my laptop and

58:19

my dogs are outside.

58:21

Like and I'm like, oh, please don't bark, and

58:23

you know, you're just like I.

58:25

Feel like a fool and in

58:28

my closet and I'm like, huh, I'm

58:30

like huffing and puffing. And it's the

58:32

first time I've ever done any type of like voice

58:34

acting. And you

58:37

couldn't feel further from what your

58:39

character is doing in this situation. And

58:41

I remember Sarah just being like, I know

58:43

it feels so silly, but like run

58:46

like just like run in place, be out of breath,

58:48

like whatever puts you in that place.

58:51

And I just very quickly had to just not

58:54

feel.

58:55

Like a total weird

58:58

and just go there.

58:58

And in green screen,

59:00

it's like it's like green screen act thing. How is

59:02

it different than motion capture.

59:06

It's way more punk rock. It's so much more punk.

59:09

Rock around you no energy whatsoever

59:11

that you get on set, right, And

59:13

I just very quickly had to be like, stop

59:16

taking yourself so seriously, stop feeling

59:18

so silly and just go there. And the second

59:20

I did, and I did what Sarah said, like just put

59:22

yourself in that place, even just physically

59:25

switch it up, make yourself feel like you're out of breath.

59:27

Then I was like, Oh, there's something that's so

59:30

liberating and doing this kind of acting because

59:32

you don't have the help that you have on

59:35

set of you know, the costume

59:37

and the props.

59:38

And this is set just the space.

59:41

You're on a boat, so it's like, oh, this

59:43

is easy, I can paddle.

59:44

You have to create all of that for yourself

59:46

and.

59:47

It takes so much imagination.

59:51

For me, I just had to just be like, stop

59:53

feeling silly and just go there.

59:55

And the second I did, it was just so much fun.

59:57

And that's part of the fun and the

1:00:00

challenge of it all creating it for yourself.

1:00:02

Whether you're in a closet or in a

1:00:04

sound studio, it's just.

1:00:06

But as an actor you really have to

1:00:08

depend on the director to

1:00:10

set the stage at right because

1:00:13

otherwise you don't know like

1:00:15

if the person is right next to you,

1:00:18

or if you're talking to them you know, twenty

1:00:20

feet away, or if

1:00:22

you know you're in the middle of doing action

1:00:25

or all of these little details that

1:00:28

you would normally not have to be you

1:00:30

know, it would not have to be explained

1:00:32

to you because you'd be doing it. All

1:00:35

of these little details have to be thought out and

1:00:38

explained by the director exactly

1:00:42

what the situation is, you know, where

1:00:44

where you're at in the scene emotionally

1:00:47

but also physically. And that's

1:00:50

the hardest part is just

1:00:52

getting that right. And so you do end

1:00:55

up having to do a lot of you know,

1:00:57

adr not well not adr because you're not

1:00:59

like the visual pop. Yeah,

1:01:02

the whole thing is idea, but like you sometimes have

1:01:04

to go back and re record things because

1:01:06

we're like, oh, we made a mistake.

1:01:09

This is you know, this part doesn't

1:01:11

match because you're this is actually

1:01:14

the situation. This is you know, how

1:01:16

far apart you guys actually are?

1:01:18

You know?

1:01:19

Or actually,

1:01:21

I don't know did I record it? I don't think I actually

1:01:23

re recorded anything. Did I Oh no, I did? I

1:01:25

think I did. But I'm

1:01:29

getting so old I can't remember anything anymore.

1:01:32

But that's but that's the fun

1:01:34

of doing of doing audio,

1:01:37

just audio. Also, you don't have to worry

1:01:39

about how you look or your makeup

1:01:41

or your lighting or not, you know, like not

1:01:43

being blocked by you know anything or

1:01:46

you know, yeah, you just it's all

1:01:48

in your imagination. You're in a super safe

1:01:51

place and you can just

1:01:53

close your eyes and go for it, you

1:01:55

know, and all you have to concentrate on is

1:01:57

the tone of your voice, the sound

1:02:00

that you make.

1:02:01

I love it.

1:02:02

On the other side of that, I always think of

1:02:04

this hilarious video of Hugh Jackman doing

1:02:07

looping for Wolverine where he's like

1:02:09

no.

1:02:09

No, no no no no no no, no, no no.

1:02:11

He's like a mic and he's like pretending

1:02:13

to run and stuff. It's it's hilarious,

1:02:15

but he's you know, he's doing it to get in that

1:02:18

headspace.

1:02:18

It's hard when you're doing it in the trunk of your car.

1:02:21

It's there's not enough room to pump your arms

1:02:23

for we haven't.

1:02:25

Heard from I'm sorry.

1:02:27

I was.

1:02:27

I was doing a lot of voiceover

1:02:29

stuff during the pandemic as well, and I just built

1:02:31

this little like closet and then every once

1:02:34

in a while you got to like open the curtains or open the

1:02:36

door just to gasp for air because

1:02:39

otherwise it's not soundproof, right.

1:02:43

You gotta just.

1:02:43

Remember Tati,

1:02:47

let's hear from you as the last word on you

1:02:50

know, how you act differently for

1:02:52

screen versus audio.

1:02:54

I think like like to what to

1:02:56

Kelly's point, like just the use of imagination,

1:02:59

I think He's is my favorite part of doing

1:03:01

audio and like and it's almost like testing

1:03:04

your like.

1:03:07

For lack.

1:03:08

I'm not good to describing these things, but testing

1:03:10

your humanness in a way. Like

1:03:13

it's like it's to be able to be in a stationary

1:03:15

like position, like and like whether

1:03:17

it is you have to like row a canoe or like

1:03:20

think about how somebody would feel

1:03:22

if they, yeah,

1:03:25

just I don't know, killed a person, but you're

1:03:27

standing in your closet or standing in a

1:03:29

tiny room. It's like you have to dig

1:03:31

deep into the human

1:03:34

aspects of yourself. And it's almost a form of

1:03:36

meditation I'm thinking about it, which is great, dig

1:03:38

really deep into like your human aspects

1:03:41

in a in a

1:03:44

a stagnant form and reach

1:03:48

into parts of the soul that sometimes

1:03:50

I feel like I wouldn't even be able to

1:03:52

reach in on set, being

1:03:55

that there's so many sort of different

1:03:58

kinds of stimuli coming in. It's

1:04:01

it's really grounding. I find

1:04:03

audio work and.

1:04:07

Yeah and just sorry no

1:04:09

no, please, sorry, no no.

1:04:11

Yeah.

1:04:11

I just find it it really grounding and

1:04:14

it makes me have to I

1:04:16

feel like it teaches me things to then take

1:04:18

to set later.

1:04:19

I was about to say, yeah, yeah, it seems like

1:04:21

it would be a very teachable experience that

1:04:23

you could then translate into on screen

1:04:25

or into camera acts.

1:04:26

Yeah, especially with just like emotionality

1:04:29

and yeah, thinking

1:04:31

about things in a different way, because I feel

1:04:33

like on set we often rely on the environment

1:04:36

to influence us or to help us get there,

1:04:38

or to to give

1:04:41

us a I

1:04:43

don't know, shock into something else. But

1:04:45

when you're yeah, standing in a room just in front

1:04:47

of a microphone.

1:04:49

It's also

1:04:51

also you get to play characters doing

1:04:54

voiceover that you would never get cast as

1:04:57

if you were to do it in front of a camera. You

1:04:59

know, So there's a much

1:05:02

wider range of types

1:05:05

of people that you can you

1:05:07

get you get to plague people or even

1:05:10

like monsters or you know, like

1:05:12

non humans do. I mean, it's

1:05:15

so much more. It's so much fun, you

1:05:17

know, to live in this world of pretend.

1:05:21

The other thing that I think can be kind of interesting on

1:05:23

the performance side of things is, you

1:05:26

know, I'm aware as a director when I'm on a set

1:05:28

if I've got an actor who's got a seriously emotional

1:05:31

scene and we shoot

1:05:33

it and then they got to reset,

1:05:36

and it's like, okay, makeup's got to fix

1:05:38

the mascara and we got to go back.

1:05:40

You know, we got to reset the whatever. And you

1:05:43

know, it's if it's five or

1:05:45

seven or ten minutes. You just sit there and you're like,

1:05:48

I know how hard it is to hold on to that kind

1:05:50

of a performance.

1:05:51

And then the camera turns around and you do it again, and

1:05:54

you.

1:05:54

Know, there's there's something that's kind

1:05:56

of cool about being able

1:05:58

to go we can do three of these back to

1:06:00

back. We can you know, take

1:06:03

the time you need because there's not forty people

1:06:05

standing around. You

1:06:08

don't have to do it in a bathing

1:06:10

suit in Nova Scotia in January, you know.

1:06:12

What I mean, and pretend that it's

1:06:14

warm.

1:06:15

Right exactly, Like I think, it's simultaneously

1:06:17

much harder because you know, as

1:06:19

Jennae was saying, like all the imaginative work

1:06:22

is on you. You are the set designer, you

1:06:24

are the costume designer, you are the special effects

1:06:26

designer.

1:06:27

But at the same time, there is a level

1:06:29

of.

1:06:31

Hey, you know what if you if you want

1:06:33

to do this one hundred times until

1:06:35

we find the right place, you

1:06:38

can do that, and when you get there, we've

1:06:40

got it. You don't have to do it again while we

1:06:42

turn around on somebody else, because you're simultaneously

1:06:45

capturing the performance of everybody in the scene

1:06:47

who's recording that day, which

1:06:50

is pretty cool.

1:06:51

Yeah, well, I lied. I have one more

1:06:53

really stupid question.

1:06:55

Okay, these are great questions, by.

1:06:56

The way, No, thank you, No, I had

1:06:58

a lot of help, Kelly.

1:07:01

In episode A, you and David Morrissey's

1:07:03

character Emerson go on a long, strange

1:07:06

trip together. You mentioned it

1:07:08

at the top of the episode. We heard

1:07:10

that you were at bernie Man. How similar was

1:07:12

that, I'm

1:07:15

going I'm.

1:07:16

Not gonna lie.

1:07:19

You were actually camping with a mushroom

1:07:21

grower and so yeah, and

1:07:24

we were trapped in the mud. We couldn't

1:07:26

even like go from camp to camp. So

1:07:29

yeah, we was thoroughly entertaining.

1:07:34

I love it.

1:07:35

Your does your performance constitute

1:07:37

probable cause the first of your vehicle

1:07:41

the next time, I gotta say, you.

1:07:43

Guys crushed that crush

1:07:46

crush crushed that scene.

1:07:47

And I don't think you didn't even record it together, right,

1:07:49

I don't think you did.

1:07:50

I think that was one of those scenes where we matched

1:07:52

people up afterwards.

1:07:55

But you guys absolutely

1:07:58

crushed that we finished that hording and I was

1:08:00

like, Kelly has walked people through bad

1:08:02

trips.

1:08:06

It's apparently a job

1:08:08

at festivals like that. There's like a person that's

1:08:10

like a trip babysitter kind of, that's

1:08:13

what that's.

1:08:13

What they do.

1:08:14

I need to get cards.

1:08:19

This is definitely not for the episode. This is

1:08:21

just for us. But our CEO, Bob

1:08:23

Pittman goes to Burning Man and he got

1:08:25

out of there on his private jet two days before everything

1:08:28

went to He

1:08:31

did, Bougie, there's a room for you on Bob Pittman's private

1:08:33

jet. Kelly, I'm sorry, you know what I did.

1:08:35

I would not have wanted to leave.

1:08:37

It was.

1:08:39

Terrifying. I don't want to be there.

1:08:41

It was so fun.

1:08:42

People were mud wrestling, people

1:08:44

were making giant penises out

1:08:47

of the mud.

1:08:48

I mean it was like people were like,

1:08:51

are the best people?

1:08:53

Would Stock ninety four really absolutely

1:08:57

resilient and creative and

1:08:59

and you know, like people

1:09:02

were like, you know, nobody was really

1:09:04

running worried about running out of food and

1:09:06

water because you you bring all that in right.

1:09:08

Of course, and there's so

1:09:10

much to share.

1:09:11

People were a little bit worried about running out of drugs,

1:09:14

but not essential

1:09:17

like food and water and stuff like that.

1:09:19

Like we essential drugs.

1:09:22

We brought enough of those.

1:09:23

People were walking around with like garbage

1:09:25

bags on their feet, you know, like.

1:09:27

You know, just isn't it interesting though, how

1:09:29

a thing like that's been co opted maybe not co opted

1:09:32

by like these like super one percenters, And

1:09:34

then there's this divide, there's this weird divide

1:09:36

between the people that are about it and there to

1:09:38

like do the damn thing.

1:09:39

Yeah, there's definitely a

1:09:42

prejudice, you know of like

1:09:44

like like old school og burners

1:09:47

and like the bougie burners, you

1:09:49

know there's burners.

1:09:52

Yeah, by the way, that's that's our next podcast.

1:09:55

Okay, so I

1:09:57

know that that's just called fires point

1:09:59

zero?

1:10:00

Can you still make shirts? Shirts

1:10:03

you're supposed to make? Like, yeah,

1:10:05

what was it of the

1:10:08

body bearing like

1:10:10

Mikayla's body bearing.

1:10:12

Michaela's Michaela's corpse

1:10:14

removal.

1:10:15

Yes, Ben, remind

1:10:17

me to talk about that because actually we're I'm

1:10:19

talking to a buddy right now, about who's an amazing,

1:10:23

amazing graphic design.

1:10:24

Uh not even he's a. He's a.

1:10:27

He's about to publish the first gay Superman

1:10:29

for Marvel.

1:10:30

I don't know even what

1:10:33

it. Yeah, Sino Grace, so I've known him brever. He's

1:10:36

going to do a design

1:10:38

for us for merch.

1:10:39

I completely forgot

1:10:41

about Michayla's body removal.

1:10:44

I got a text him about that.

1:11:01

Not to do call it a life, but to do

1:11:03

call it a life.