0:00

My name is Alex, and my pronouns are he him

0:03

his. No be al

0:06

no alright,

0:09

no, be alright forever, no

0:14

be al alright,

0:19

no, be alright forever. I

0:24

was raised in a very very

0:26

conservative religion, in a

0:29

very very conservative state, even

0:31

in a very conservative community.

0:34

I think that the only saving grace

0:36

that I had was probably that I had two

0:38

parents who raised us to follow our heart and be

0:40

inclusive and love everybody.

0:43

And they raised us to know the difference

0:45

between what you're being told

0:47

is right and what actually feels right

0:49

in your heart. And that really is the

0:51

preface for my experience

0:53

growing up, or I guess unlearning

0:56

and relearning the things that

0:58

I thought I knew, but now I'm continuing

1:01

to learn about the lgbt Q plus

1:03

community. So being raised in

1:05

Arizona in a very very conservative

1:08

religion, it was gnarly like you really

1:10

were raised to believe that there

1:12

was only two genders, and there's

1:15

only one sexuality, which is straight,

1:17

and you you know, if it's if you're a man,

1:19

you love a woman, if you're a woman, you love a man, and there's

1:21

no other options if you want

1:24

to, you know, receive exaltation

1:26

or you know, go to paradise when you die,

1:29

and as a kid, you know you're

1:31

you're raised to believe whatever the

1:33

people above you are telling you. It

1:36

wasn't until the two thousand and eight election

1:38

where there was Proposition eight for

1:40

California Proposition one O two for

1:43

Arizona. At the time, I was living in Arizona,

1:45

So Proposition one O two in Arizona was

1:47

a proposition that was designed to ban

1:49

gay marriage in the state of Arizona.

1:52

And as you can tell, from

1:54

a red conservative state that is

1:56

predominantly very conservative,

1:59

that propos aition was passed. But

2:01

I remembered in that lobbying period for

2:03

the two thousand eight election, I

2:06

remember, you know, church groups.

2:08

I remember my friends like going

2:10

out and holding signs that say

2:12

yes on one oh two, which I

2:14

guess when you're a kid, you just read yes on one

2:16

oh two. But reality is, the

2:19

hate that that sign could carry was something

2:21

that I couldn't even fathom as a twelve year

2:23

old kid. My parents we didn't partake

2:26

in any of those things. My parents

2:28

knew what the deal was and so

2:30

we didn't partake in it at all.

2:32

I actually remember my parents

2:35

tricked us. This is a complete side note my

2:37

parents tricked us took us to the LLL

2:39

cool J concert. This is how cool my parents are.

2:41

They took us to the L cool J concert, but they wanted

2:43

to surprise us, so they told us that

2:46

we had to go. They were going to drop us

2:48

off to go and hold the signs

2:50

for yes on one O two. We were so bummed,

2:52

like we were the most bummed kids in the

2:55

world. And then we get in the car and

2:57

they started driving towards the

3:00

Arizona County Fair and we were like, wait

3:02

a second, what's going out here? And they totally tricked

3:04

us. We went out to ll cool J concert. Like,

3:06

honestly, Martin and Heather Iono fucking

3:08

coolest parents in the world. So

3:10

that was really my first experience

3:13

in terms of recognizing

3:15

that there was an argument for or against

3:18

people who loved the way that they felt

3:20

their heart needed to love or be the person

3:22

that their heart tells them they need to

3:24

be, or that they are not even need to be

3:26

that they are. And then I guess

3:28

when I moved to Los Angeles, my

3:31

heart started realizing what felt

3:33

right and what didn't feel right. And as I

3:35

looked back at my friends in Arizona

3:38

who were still throwing around like derogatory

3:41

terms and using the word gay to define

3:44

anything that wasn't cool, like or

3:46

or that they didn't like that. I started

3:48

feeling in my chest like that's not cool,

3:51

that's not right, that's not inclusive,

3:53

that's not loving, that's not any of the things that

3:55

my parents taught me to be. And I

3:57

think as soon as that switch flipped for me,

4:00

I immediately shifted into

4:03

wanting to figure out how I can support,

4:05

how I can help fight

4:07

for the rights of all people,

4:10

regardless of how they identify

4:12

themselves. It made me immediately

4:15

turn around and want to figure

4:17

out any possible way that I could

4:19

support or help fight for the rights

4:22

of the people who are beyond the binary

4:24

of traditional gender norms. So

4:27

I became an ally to the l g B t Q plus

4:29

community, and I met people

4:31

who immediately just enriched my

4:33

life's They upgraded my life, my view on

4:35

the world, and just my view on life

4:37

in general. Having fun. I got to write on the

4:39

I Heart float at the New York City Pride Parade

4:41

last year, and it was just like the most fun.

4:44

I mean, you're surrounded by people who

4:46

specialize in loving everybody,

4:48

including everybody and

4:51

the amount that you can learn in terms

4:53

of inclusiveness and loving

4:56

people for who they are, however they

4:58

are, and however they choose to love of is

5:01

something that you won't be able to learn anywhere

5:03

else. And that got me thinking, how

5:05

special would it be if we did an episode

5:07

here on the show where we explore some of

5:09

this, Because I know not everybody has a chance to

5:11

meet or become friends with someone who's trans

5:14

or non binary or gender queer, or

5:16

maybe they're just not the most educated

5:18

when it comes to the l g B t Q plus community.

5:21

Uh So I wanted to have an episode about that. And

5:24

you might notice that I take quite

5:26

a bit of a backseat on this one because as a straight

5:28

cis gender man, cis gender meaning

5:30

that my gender identity matches what

5:32

I was assigned at birth. This isn't

5:34

my story to tell. No,

5:38

No, what

5:42

is up? Friends, It's alex IONO here. This

5:44

is let's get into it. It is a podcast that I

5:46

created where I can just talk about

5:49

life and what it's like to be twenty

5:51

four living in today's world. Right

5:53

now, we are all in our

5:55

own respective homes, just quarantining

5:58

and practicing self this and seeing social

6:00

distancing, self distancing. I'm losing my mind

6:03

right now at this point. But when I

6:05

say we, I have two amazing, amazing

6:07

guests. You know that I always bring on friends, either

6:09

their new friends or they are friends I've had for a while

6:11

to talk about topics that they can give better

6:13

insight on. Uh. And one of them is

6:16

one of my very very close friends, Ladies

6:18

and gentlemen, the one and only the Queen

6:20

of Sugar, your local Beyonce, my

6:23

personal bond me, Mila jam

6:25

How are you love? Hi? Everybody?

6:28

I am making do I'm doing

6:30

all right. I'm hanging tight, I'm

6:32

looking right and I'm feeling all right.

6:35

Oh my god, she got the rhyme. She got the rhymes

6:37

today. Uh. Mila was the star

6:39

of my music video for her, which

6:42

was a project that I wanted to help

6:44

shine some light uh and and and really

6:46

step out as an an ally for the

6:49

l g B t Q plus community. Uh

6:51

And since then, she's just been my sweet bond

6:53

me and uh And I've been loving seeing all of the music

6:55

and and all of the music videos and

6:58

everything, all of the art that you're creating. I'm

7:00

so happy that you're here, but you are not You're

7:04

not the only guest that I have here. I also have a

7:06

new friend. I have not met this

7:08

person yet, but I'm so happy to meet them

7:10

right here on this podcast. Or while

7:12

they are what is this called quarantining,

7:14

Geez, Louise, I'm losing my mind. While

7:16

they're quarantining in their own home,

7:19

I have Bethany Myers.

7:21

Bethany is the founder and CEO of The Become

7:24

Project and a body neutral advocate.

7:26

Bethany has Become Project is a fitness

7:28

based movement program that is rooted in body

7:30

neutrality. They've been with their partner Nico

7:33

Tortorella for thirteen years, and together

7:35

they host the podcast The Love Bomb, where they discuss

7:37

how they make their queer polyamorous relationship

7:40

work. Bethany, how are you hi?

7:43

I'm you know, I'm

7:46

not my best, I'm not my worst. I'm just day

7:48

by day. It is such an it is such

7:50

an interesting time. I just saw you posted. Uh,

7:53

you posted a really sweet message

7:55

from Twitter onto your Instagram

7:57

account for the Become Project that

7:59

just kind of references the anxiety that

8:01

people may be feeling. Uh. And I just

8:03

want to say I really appreciate that because I

8:05

have not been able to sleep through the night since

8:08

this quarantine started, and so having that relatability

8:11

to know that I'm not only the only one who's

8:13

dealing with the anxiety that is coming with

8:16

this pandemic, it meant a lot to me.

8:18

So I just wanted to say thank you before we get

8:20

into all of this. But I really love what

8:22

you're doing the more research that I've done for the Become

8:24

project, and we're gonna talk a lot more about that, but

8:26

before we do that, I want to talk about what

8:28

today's episode is about and why

8:31

I have my two beautiful guests with me

8:33

today. We are going to talk about gender identity.

8:36

As I mentioned before, I am a very

8:39

very very proud ally to the l g b t

8:41

Q plus community. I

8:43

love the courage that I see throughout

8:45

the community, and I want to partake as

8:47

much as I can wherever I can, however I

8:49

can to help build up the

8:52

fight for equality, equal rights,

8:54

equal pay, equal opportunity

8:56

for UM for everybody, and especially

8:59

in today's episode, highlighting UM

9:01

that equal opportunity that I fight for for the l

9:03

g B t Q plus community. So I felt

9:05

like it is very very appropriate

9:08

and only right if we each take our own turns

9:10

to introduce ourselves and our

9:12

our pronouns and kind

9:14

of just get a little comfortable with all of

9:16

this. Yeah sounds good, Yeah, let's do

9:18

it. I am your local biance, Mila

9:21

Jam everybody, what's good? I

9:23

am she her hers, and I hope

9:25

that you're all doing amazing today.

9:27

Beautiful Bethany, my

9:29

name is Bethany Myers. My pronouns

9:32

are they them, and

9:34

they do a ton of work in the fitness

9:36

space. Um, but really surrounding

9:39

body neutrality and how

9:41

do we make movement about

9:44

giving time to ourselves instead of punishing

9:46

ourselves. And I'm super excited

9:49

to be here today, especially having gender talks

9:51

because I love to talk about gender. Yeah.

9:55

Um, and I'm alex Iono. I use the pronouns

9:57

he him and his and uh

9:59

And I a very very grateful

10:01

that I have you two here just to help

10:04

shine more light. I think that for me especially,

10:06

this is a constant unlearning

10:09

and relearning of things that

10:11

I maybe thought I knew or

10:14

knew before that are changing and ever changing.

10:16

So I'm very very grateful that you

10:18

guys would both come on this podcast and help

10:21

educate me more, educate the listeners

10:23

more. I'm just grateful. Overall,

10:25

we have some beautiful, beautiful topics

10:28

to talk about. UM. The first topic, Bethany,

10:30

you and I are gonna be talking about choosing comfortable

10:32

labels. Then after that, Mila,

10:35

you and I are gonna be talking about seeing the representation

10:37

and being the representation. And lastly,

10:39

we're going to talk about how sis gender folks like

10:41

me can just be better about furthering

10:44

the conversation, being a better ally to

10:46

the l g B t Q plus community, and getting

10:48

a little bit more inclusive with these topics. Does

10:50

that sound cool with you guys? Amazing?

10:53

Perfect? Before we get into it, though, I have a question

10:55

that I ask all of my guests, uh,

10:57

and it is a simple question for this week.

11:00

What have you been doing to improve

11:02

your life? UM? A lot of it has been

11:05

quarantine type stuff with the episodes

11:07

that we've been recording, but I'll

11:09

give you an example and let you guys have some

11:11

time to think. So this week, I'm very

11:13

very fortunate. I have a Peloton bike that I've had

11:15

for over a year now that I ride very

11:17

very religiously, and this week

11:20

I wanted to level that up, so I actually started

11:22

P ninety X on top of

11:24

it. So I'm doing two workouts a day, eating

11:26

a ton of food, trying to stay healthy and

11:28

honestly just not lose my mind because

11:30

I've now been in my house for what is three

11:33

and a half weeks, So I am I'm

11:36

very, very very adamant

11:38

on getting my fitness right and hopefully coming

11:40

out of this thing looking like the Rock or maybe

11:42

like the Pebble. I guess if we're not going to be

11:44

the complete you know, the Dwayne the Rock, Johnson

11:47

Alex the Pebble, I own no. Um.

11:49

So that is what I've been doing to improve

11:51

myself this week, Mila, you got something

11:53

for me? Yeah? Yeah, I've been working on

11:56

my memory skills, Like I get

11:58

a lot of side sent to me for auditions,

12:01

and like this is the perfect time for me to start

12:03

like honing my like ability to memorize

12:06

stuff in short periods of time. Audio

12:08

stuff, Like I love to watch video clips

12:10

like on TikTok and all this stuff

12:12

and then replay them over and over and over again and

12:14

see how like long it takes me to remember the

12:16

like like like learning a song, but like

12:19

learning the words or the dialogue

12:21

in the scene and then just going over a bunch

12:23

of sides that I get throughout my

12:25

agency and my my agents when they send me stuff.

12:27

And so I feel like when I'm normally

12:30

running from place to place, I never have time

12:32

to actually like just really

12:34

like dive into like text and

12:36

like inflections and like what am I feeling

12:39

in this? And how do I deliver this to make it sound

12:41

good? And the artists and the musician in

12:43

me gets all like musical about it and everything,

12:45

and so I have the time to do it. And so that's

12:47

I've just been working on memorizing text.

12:50

I love that. I love that.

12:53

Really, it really is like a great I have never

12:55

heard somebody give me on

12:58

this show and answer that makes me go, damn, I

13:00

never have even thought about doing. You can

13:02

be the rock and I'm my Angelou. I'm just

13:04

gonna I'm gonna work on I

13:08

have a feeling me that's going to be given us a singers all

13:10

episode long, Bethany, what have

13:12

you been up to to better your life? Well?

13:15

I will say, you know, this is week

13:17

three of Quarantine. As we're recording this

13:20

week one, I was like energizer

13:23

bunny person with a plan, like

13:25

you know, just so go go go and here's

13:28

all the things we're gonna do. And

13:30

then week two it was full burnout,

13:33

I mean just crash, like crying every single

13:35

day, couldn't get anything done, didn't

13:37

feel motivated at all, which is actually

13:39

kind of a theme that happens in my life. I tend

13:41

to lake burn the candle at both ends and then

13:43

crash. So this

13:46

week I've really i mean, this is like a simple

13:48

thing, but I'm really trying to make a commitment

13:50

to balance and routine. And

13:53

so it's which has sounded a lot like,

13:56

you know, kind of laying out a schedule for

13:58

my day and starting

14:00

my morning peacefully as opposed

14:02

to jumping into work right away. I think it's

14:05

been really helpful just for like my overall

14:07

anxiety and kind of keeping my feet on the ground.

14:10

But yeah, balance and routine are the two

14:12

main things that I'm really trying to work for. Simple

14:14

but very important. That's

14:17

very important for quarantine life.

14:19

Routine is important. I'll got some y'all

14:21

got some amazing answers. Uh,

14:24

let's get straight into it. Honestly, Milo,

14:26

we will be with you in just a second. But Bethany

14:28

first, it's you and I one on one, and we're gonna

14:30

be talking about labels. So

14:32

you've said before you do not love labels.

14:35

Um, they do help others understand

14:37

you, but they should not define you in any way,

14:39

shape or form. How did you land on

14:41

your current labels? Oh

14:44

that's a great question. Um, yeah, I think

14:47

labels are It's funny. There's

14:49

so much going on with language right

14:51

now, just like as a society.

14:53

You know, the word of the year last year was

14:56

them, And I think it's

14:58

really helpful right now, specifically looking

15:00

at it from a queer lens, to use

15:03

labels to help us

15:06

figure this out, you know, and to help us

15:08

to be able to put words to something that we really

15:10

haven't had words for

15:12

before. But my dream

15:14

is like to be able to live in this world where there aren't

15:17

labels and we don't have to define

15:19

you know this boy and girl and male and

15:21

female and this or that gay or straight.

15:23

We can just be. I think

15:25

right now labels for me, I mean

15:28

using non binary. I

15:30

really love also the term gender fluid

15:33

and gender neutral, just because I love

15:35

the word neutral in general. I use it in

15:37

so many different aspects of life. I

15:40

love that is there a moment that

15:42

that really like stuck out to you, but

15:45

I think for me it was really it resonated

15:47

with me, you know, the she her pronouns,

15:51

things that were like super female based never really

15:53

felt quite right. And I think being

15:57

able to give myself

15:59

sort of this genderless space has

16:02

really opened up just my overall

16:05

perception of the things that I enjoy.

16:07

So, like a really small example would

16:10

be the last year I started

16:12

growing out my leg hair, which is

16:14

like something I previously never really

16:16

thought I would do because I'm a very very hairy person

16:19

with like really dark hair. And

16:22

I think that the non binary label

16:24

actually kind of helped me accept that

16:27

more in in some way,

16:29

um, it was like, well, it doesn't really matter,

16:32

right, like what is male and female, especially

16:34

specifically for myself, And

16:37

I think it's allowed me to kind of move

16:39

outside of the box of my preconceived

16:42

notions of you know, what I am

16:44

supposed to be? Are my trained notions,

16:46

right? These societal standards that we've grown up

16:48

with of how we have to look behavior,

16:51

act, Yeah,

16:53

yeah, No, I mean I definitely agree with you, though. I

16:55

think that societal standards in

16:58

your situation are absolute lead

17:00

to constricted and and also in the

17:03

regular life of every

17:05

human being, all across the gender

17:07

unicorn as I like to use that term.

17:09

I spent some time talking with Aaron Rose

17:12

last year in preparation to to

17:14

really step out more

17:16

than just supporting, but

17:18

actually being an outward um

17:20

vocal ally for the lgbt Q plus community

17:23

and learning that societal standards are not

17:25

only constricting for people who don't fall

17:27

within the traditional gender model, but for

17:29

those of us who do. But before we get

17:32

more into that, I wanna I want to discuss

17:34

kind of your journey into finding

17:36

the labels or deciding the

17:39

labels that you wanted to go by,

17:41

And for those who may be wondering what the differences

17:43

between trans and non binary and gay

17:46

and straight and CIS gender are. When

17:48

we talk about someone who's gender nonconforming

17:51

or non binary or trans or

17:53

CIS or cis gender, we're

17:55

talking about gender identity. That is

17:57

who you are. When we talk about

17:59

gay or lesbian or straight, we're actually

18:01

talking about who a person is attracted

18:04

to. What was your what was your process

18:06

going through life that got you to where you

18:08

are today, and how much more comfortable you are with

18:10

the labels and with your like you're saying everything

18:12

from using pronouns like they

18:14

in them to even just leaving

18:16

your leg hairs to grow and be the beautiful

18:19

body that you you know that God gave you. Yeah,

18:22

well it was certainly a slow burn, to say

18:24

the least. I was raised in

18:26

a very very religious setting, almost

18:30

like a bit verging on cultish,

18:32

a ton of rules, a ton of restrictions,

18:35

a lot of like you can go here, you cannot

18:37

go here. But like growing up, I was certainly

18:39

knocking on people's doors asking

18:42

if they were going to heaven or hell. And

18:45

I really didn't have like any

18:47

knowledge whatsoever of

18:49

a world outside of this

18:52

very very conservative Christian

18:55

bubble that I lived in. Like I

18:57

wasn't allowed to go to the movie theater, or

18:59

to take dance classes, or to wear

19:03

you know, pants as opposed to a skirt

19:05

kind of thing. So yeah,

19:08

like I mean, it was it was pretty intense. And

19:11

so there was like several different

19:13

moments in my life where I

19:15

was really shocked by the world. Like

19:17

the first one, I ended up transferring to a

19:19

public school from my very very small

19:22

Christian school of like thirty people. Um.

19:24

I ended up transferring to a public school when I

19:26

was sixteen years old, and that was

19:29

the first time where i'd like, you

19:31

know, seeing a classroom where

19:33

boys and girls could sit

19:36

wherever they want, Like they could sit mixed up,

19:38

you know, not separated boys on the left and girls

19:40

on the right kind of thing. And then

19:42

I would write so

19:44

so like public school was a huge shock

19:47

for me. And then I moved to Chicago,

19:50

which is actually where I met Nico, my spouse,

19:53

fourteen years ago, and that was

19:55

that was the first time that I met a gay person.

19:58

And I remember well that

20:00

I knew that I met a gay person, like surely I met

20:02

gay people before, you

20:04

know, I didn't know. And

20:06

you know, I had just been raised under

20:08

this assumption that gay

20:11

people were um

20:13

they had fallen so deeply into sin

20:16

that their ultimate punishment was

20:19

God made them gay. That's how I understood

20:21

what queer was. And

20:24

so and then I like, you know, I

20:26

went to Chicago, and I like met queer people

20:28

and I was like, oh, wow, they're

20:30

not the devil, you know. It was it was just this moment

20:32

where I was like, hmmm, that's interesting.

20:35

And then that was also the first time

20:37

that I recognized that I had feelings

20:40

for a woman. It was New Year's

20:42

Eve. She was kissing

20:44

a guy she was a close friend. She was kissing

20:46

a guy and I was sitting there watching them, and

20:48

I was like so jealous. And

20:51

the moment I felt those jealous feelings,

20:53

it was like I need to push that down and bury

20:55

it. You know, I don't know what's what's going

20:57

on there. And then over time it

21:00

was just this slow progression and

21:02

what kind of a reaction did those feelings make

21:04

you have? I think something

21:06

that often happens with queer people and that certainly

21:08

happened with myself, is we're so

21:10

often told that we're not able to explore

21:13

our gender roles, were not able to explore,

21:16

you know, somebody of the same sex, and

21:19

so it becomes, um,

21:21

it becomes so taboo that the only

21:24

way you're able to explore it is through

21:27

using, you know, some type

21:29

of substance. I mean not that that

21:31

happens to everyone, but I think it happens to a lot

21:33

of people. So I know, certainly for me, it was

21:36

like, let's get wasted so

21:38

that way I don't have to actually know what I'm doing,

21:40

and I can like hook up with this girl or have

21:42

a three summer you know, like like do

21:45

these things. It just became from this place of substance

21:48

and and kind of being blacked out. And

21:50

then when I moved to New York eight

21:52

years ago is when I really

21:55

really found freedom and found

21:57

you know, I don't know what it is about New York City, but

21:59

it's just a bunch of weirdos

22:01

that go there to play and you can

22:03

just be yourself. It's so beautiful.

22:07

And so that was really the first time that I

22:09

started dating women, started

22:11

realizing what exactly those feelings

22:13

were. And then and then

22:16

after that, right, like, the gender

22:18

came even after that portion. That's really

22:20

only been in the last couple of years that I've used

22:22

the word non binary. So what made

22:25

you feel like the label that you were born

22:27

with didn't quite fit? Yeah,

22:29

you know, I don't know why that I can tell you exactly

22:31

what it was to get there. But one was

22:33

simply education, right, I mean, the

22:36

first time that I met somebody that was non binary

22:38

and they were like, I don't identify

22:40

with being male or female, I was like me

22:43

too, you know WHOA like, that's an

22:45

option. And genuinely,

22:47

that was really only in the last couple of years.

22:49

So I think that I am still

22:51

exploring and still finding out what that looks

22:54

like um, which is the beautiful,

22:57

Which is a beautiful thing and

23:00

also something that I hope

23:03

changes for future generations,

23:05

you know, because a lot of queer

23:07

people, most queer people end up

23:09

having a second puberty in their

23:11

twenties or some of their thirties or forties or

23:13

fifties, you know, and we're

23:15

not really allowed to be ourselves

23:18

growing up, and so that

23:20

means that you have to do a lot of self work and

23:22

a lot of self discovery as an adult.

23:24

So I I really hope that, you

23:26

know, we're able to start seeing that shift for

23:29

those other younger than us. Absolutely,

23:31

And I just have to say that was amazing and beautiful.

23:36

I'm out here just like I'm just I'm just loving

23:38

it. I got like a big old smile on my face listening to

23:40

you. I was grinning the whole time too. Very

23:43

good. The good

23:45

news is that I have here is that statistically,

23:47

we are actually um, we are on the road

23:49

to, like you had mentioned, brighter

23:52

future. A full thirty five percent

23:54

of Generation Z say that they personally

23:57

know somebody who uses gender neutral pronouns

23:59

like they and them, compared to a

24:01

quarter of millennials who said the same sixteen

24:03

and twelve of Gen X and baby boomer

24:05

baby boomers UM who knows somebody

24:08

who is gender neutral using the

24:10

pronouns day in them non binary. There

24:12

is also a large increase

24:14

in the amount per generation

24:17

of people who would prefer that forms

24:19

online or profiles about gender

24:21

should include options other than man or woman

24:24

UM, and that there should be more than just two binary

24:26

gender choices for forms and

24:29

uh an online profile. So, so, now

24:31

that you've shared with us your story, your journey

24:33

of coming to the conclusion that they

24:35

then pronouns feel the most comfortable for

24:38

you, what's your advice for somebody

24:40

who might still be exploring their gender

24:42

identity that they might not yet know what

24:44

their pronouns are. I mean,

24:47

I think the number one thing is knowing

24:49

that everything

24:52

can change and that you are allowed

24:54

to change. You know, Nico

24:56

and I actually talked about this all the time, and

24:59

how you don't have to be set. I

25:01

am X and then that's what you are for

25:03

the rest of your life. I think that, like, that's

25:06

where the word fluidity is so beautiful

25:09

and we can really allow ourselves

25:11

to explore. So exploration

25:13

is a great word to use here, right, Like,

25:16

what does it feel like to tell your most

25:18

close friends could you call me they

25:20

them? Or what is it like to start

25:22

following more people on Instagram

25:25

or making your social your internet

25:27

social circles filled with non binary

25:29

people. I know something I did is

25:32

I watched a lot of YouTube videos from

25:34

other non people talking about gender

25:36

and how they um

25:38

experience being a non binary person,

25:41

and that for me felt super

25:43

super comforting to be like, oh, I'm

25:45

not alone in this, you know, but

25:48

I think really giving yourself

25:50

the opportunity to explore and

25:52

finding where you can safely

25:55

explore, right, because not

25:57

everywhere people are able to be safe.

26:00

Um, So I think that that's a really important piece.

26:03

Oh I love that. Uh. And now I guess

26:05

for the other side of of that

26:07

decision. Um, once you decide,

26:09

I'll even call myself out. Before we got

26:12

to meet personally, we're we're

26:14

prepping to record this podcast, and I

26:16

use the pronoun she and her in

26:19

referencing yourself, and once

26:22

I was corrected,

26:24

I automatically shifted gears and immediately

26:26

went straight into it. What is your advice for somebody

26:28

who gets in that same situation, or maybe

26:30

for someone who is so intimidated

26:33

and scared that they're going to mess up somebody's

26:35

pronouns. They even avoid interacting

26:38

with anybody that's different from them at all. What's

26:41

your advice for those people? Right? This

26:43

is actually one of my favorite topics to talk

26:45

about, is how to help other people transition

26:48

their language and making language

26:50

more inclusive. I'm just so fascinated

26:52

by that idea. But I think

26:55

um number one is

26:57

that a lot of times people get a bit defensive

27:00

with using the then pronouns. That's That's what

27:02

I've seen is that people like, oh, why does it

27:04

have to be this? Like doesn't matter, you know. I

27:06

think a lot of times the reason we get defensive

27:09

is because it's not easy

27:11

to to make the shift into using

27:14

they then pronounced. And I kind of equate

27:16

it to like learning a new language, Like

27:18

if you just learned Spanish and you don't have

27:20

all of the conjugations completely

27:23

correct on the word right, because

27:25

that's something that you're not used to saying, and

27:27

so like, we have to honor that piece.

27:29

We have to we have to allow ourselves

27:32

the time to learn it and to understand

27:35

it. So things that you can do is you can

27:37

practice writing simple sentences

27:39

with they then pronouns you can,

27:41

um, when you're reading a book, see what

27:43

it's like to substitute he

27:46

she gendered pronouns with they

27:48

them. UM. I think that like there's

27:50

actually some education and just learning that

27:52

you have to do, and it takes practice.

27:55

Um. And then I also

27:58

feel like when you do mess

28:01

up a pronoun, instead of spending

28:03

a ton of time apologizing and be like, oh

28:05

my god, I'm so I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, just

28:08

correct it and then move on. Because

28:11

for a non binary person or someone

28:13

who uses the then pronouns, it's

28:15

never comfortable to be in a social situation

28:17

and be monopolizing the conversation

28:20

by everyone apologizing to you about

28:22

a word. You know, So

28:24

I think that the best thing to do is actually just oops,

28:27

I mean they, and then continue to move

28:29

on and roll right over it. Then,

28:32

number one thing that I would

28:34

love to see from people is not it's

28:36

not everyone being perfect in

28:39

using the right pronouns all the time, but simply

28:42

people making the effort. I

28:44

love that. That's a beautiful period. The effort, I

28:46

think, the effort to want to make that change,

28:48

to unlearn the things that maybe you

28:50

had learned as a kid and relearned them now to

28:52

the way that the world is now so

28:54

that people feel that equality, people actually

28:57

push for that equality to be

29:00

more than what it is now. And as we've seen the trend

29:02

statistically, it's gone up you and you

29:04

ended that statement perfectly, and I think

29:06

that's gonna end this segment perfectly. We're

29:08

gonna take a quick break. Thank you so much, Bethany.

29:11

When we come back, my sweet bond Me,

29:13

Mila jam is going to be talking with me

29:15

about seeing representation and being

29:18

the representation. We will be right back.

29:20

Don't go anywhere. We

29:23

are back. This is let's get into

29:25

it. I'm Alex Siono and we are having a

29:27

sweet, fun conversation about gender

29:29

identity. I just finished a

29:31

beautiful conversation with Bethany Myers.

29:34

We talked about choosing comfortable labels,

29:36

the process that they went through to choose their

29:38

labels, and how you can get

29:40

a little bit more comfortable with it and know that it's an

29:42

ongoing process as life is

29:45

um in every situation. People might

29:47

be wondering why I call you my sweet bond

29:49

me. When we filmed the her music

29:51

video that Mila was the star of, we

29:54

actually had lunch which

29:56

were a little bond me sandwiches. It's a Vietnamese

29:58

sandwich. And for some reason

30:00

we kind of it was me, you

30:03

and Nick Mila, and we kind

30:05

of call ourselves the bond. We like, all

30:07

three of us the bond we and so

30:09

we kind of just all called each other bond me and

30:11

it's just kind of stuck. So that's

30:13

so that's where that comes from. But now we

30:16

are talking, Mila jam bond

30:18

me. How are you Alex?

30:21

I miss you. I haven't seen you in a very

30:23

long time. And I wish we could just

30:25

have like a quick social distancing

30:27

hang out, like across the street or something, and maybe

30:29

we could wave to each other. Mila, let's just start

30:31

off. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? UM

30:34

A recording artist, musician,

30:36

singer, songwriter. UM. Artivists

30:39

is what I like to call myself. Actress, choreographer,

30:41

dancer, UM. The list goes on and

30:43

on. And I love to just be

30:46

the best me that I can be. Uh. I

30:49

love that. UM. We're gonna talk all I want to

30:51

talk. We're gonna get into it. I want you to know we're gonna

30:53

get into your whole life, which is why

30:55

I was not worried about it. The amount of

30:57

talent that you have continues to impress

30:59

me. Um. But before we get into that,

31:01

I wanted to talk about the process, um,

31:03

that I went through. I know, sometimes learning

31:06

to be a better version of ourselves means actually

31:08

making a ton of mistakes along the

31:10

way. I mean, I remember when we were filming

31:12

the music video for her, you had to correct me so

31:15

many times, and you were so patient and

31:17

and kind to me, and it really helped me become

31:20

a better version of me. So sometimes

31:22

learning to be a better version of ourselves means

31:24

making a ton of mistakes along the way. I

31:27

truly do value you

31:29

as a teacher and as a friend, and as

31:31

a constant example of what it

31:33

means to have true courage

31:35

and be an insane artist or artivists.

31:38

As you say, i'm gonna start, I think I'm gonna steal that.

31:40

I want to apologize ahead of time. I'm gonna steal artivists

31:42

because that's genius. Um. But

31:44

I want to hear more. Okay,

31:48

I'll pay rent for it, Um.

31:50

I wanted to learn more about

31:52

actually how you grew up, the way that

31:54

you grew up, the same way that I spoke with Bethany

31:56

about it. Um, you grew up in an era where

31:58

transrepretented representation was

32:01

very, very limited, and representation of black

32:03

women was already restricted to specific

32:06

types. Growing up, how did

32:08

you see yourself through that process?

32:11

It's quite a journey. I'm

32:13

from the South and from Georgia,

32:15

actually a really small town called Columbus,

32:18

Georgia, even though I like to reference Atlanta a

32:20

t. L. Shouty as one of the

32:22

places that I grew up. And so

32:24

I was born in Chicago and raised

32:27

in Columbus slash Atlanta, Georgia,

32:30

and so you know, it's the dirty South.

32:32

It's like, you know, the Bible Belt. And

32:35

I always knew I

32:37

was different. I always

32:40

felt like I was female.

32:43

And I remember, since I

32:45

was probably four years old at

32:47

least, thinking that those things

32:49

don't work in this world.

32:52

And I believe that most of my youth, in

32:55

my upbringing, my childhood, I was just compensating

32:59

for what I always knew in

33:01

my heart and in my spirit was

33:04

me and what was real. And

33:06

this is when we go to sleep at night, when we, you

33:09

know, are by ourselves, when we are alone, and we have our thoughts,

33:11

and how we process those thoughts and those

33:13

feelings that we have for who we are, who

33:15

we like see in the mirror, um how

33:18

that either looks good to you or doesn't really

33:20

resonate with you. And you're trying to figure out what

33:22

the disconnect is. And then you have society

33:25

and people around you. You You have family and friends telling

33:27

you who you are. That's literally

33:29

what people do when you're a child, you know, you have

33:31

people telling you who you are, and they

33:33

kind of pay attention to the things that you

33:36

give them. But it's really hard to

33:39

let children sort of just be,

33:42

especially black children raising the

33:44

South, because almost every

33:46

black person that was

33:49

raised in you know, the black culture can

33:51

kind of attest to Like, there's

33:53

so much that we deal with from the beginning

33:56

of our lives. We're not to go, what not

33:58

to do, what not to say, how not to act, how

34:00

not to look, how to look, how to act

34:02

to be not only a representation

34:05

of your black community, but a representation

34:07

of someone that is um, you

34:09

know, upstanding or hopefully

34:12

you know, doing some good and not out

34:14

on the street and not like doing something

34:16

bad. So I had all of

34:18

that to to deal with, and

34:20

on top of that, I'm just like, I just

34:23

feel so connected to the female

34:26

spirit and the feminine energy.

34:28

And I was always picked on as a kid for

34:31

that. I was always seen as you know,

34:33

words like the sissy or like

34:35

people would say you gay, you gay.

34:37

This is before you had any understanding of like

34:40

what that means. You know, even

34:42

without sexuality being a part of the conversation.

34:45

You just know, Oh, the way

34:47

that I present or feel or act

34:50

mixed alarms people. And then so

34:52

what do you do? Most people will go into

34:54

themselves and they will basically sabotage themselves

34:57

and just cut it off, or they will like you

34:59

know, create a math. I wasn't that

35:01

person. I never created a mask for it.

35:03

And I say that because in really

35:05

honestly knowing so much of who I really was as

35:07

a kid, I just existed in spaces

35:10

and I would probably say I was more non binary

35:12

as a kid. And I've never even admitted

35:14

this or said this on any you

35:16

know, interview, but like I

35:18

mean, looking back, because

35:20

I was male bodied, because I was told

35:22

I was a boy, I probably

35:25

just felt androgyny was

35:27

the word that was really like the word. And when

35:29

I was little and so like, I

35:31

just felt in dragynus and I knew

35:33

my attractions, and I knew how I saw

35:36

myself, and I knew the kind of energies

35:38

I wanted to be around girlfriends

35:40

girls. I was one of the girls. I was always

35:43

the kid that was the only one allowed to

35:45

like come to the sleepover, that was

35:47

not like a threat. So

35:50

it was like I was

35:52

like so in just

35:54

into researching my

35:56

feelings and like keeping

35:59

journals and just being creative.

36:01

And I felt like I found my identity through

36:03

creativity, through art, because like one

36:06

thing was just like I was a kid with a lot of energy.

36:08

You know, I think we share that. I bet you

36:10

had the most energies. I had the most energy in the

36:12

world. I still have and like

36:14

you already know you know you know, so

36:17

like dancing, dance

36:19

classes, I was a gymnast, acting classes,

36:21

voice lessons, church choir. I

36:24

was in like some local television

36:26

shows. I was in regional theater. I

36:28

really was projecting to become like a

36:31

child star. I had opportunities

36:33

as a kid to go to l A and

36:35

to be a part of a sitcom. And my mom was

36:37

just kind of like I as a single

36:39

mother. She was like, I don't know what that life

36:41

is going to bring, Like that's going to benefit us,

36:44

and she's like, right now, it is like, you know, you're a kid and

36:46

you need in education. So like it

36:48

just didn't go that way. I really just delve

36:50

so much into being an artist and

36:53

that sort of helped me get through

36:55

my identity issues and

36:58

expressing it through performance. And

37:00

then that was also the way that I was able to beat

37:02

It was like my saving grace. It

37:05

was like my my protection and my armor,

37:07

because if people made fun of me,

37:09

if I were able to like perform, you

37:12

know, they would say, oh,

37:14

but you're talented, Okay, so you're good.

37:17

You know, we'll let you slide. You

37:19

know, we're not going to really pick on you too much because

37:21

you know, you could saying and so

37:23

that's kind of what people would, you know, give

37:25

me, And then I would just kind of hide away from

37:27

everything else. I look back to and thinking

37:30

about identifying as someone

37:32

gay in high school, it

37:35

was a time of it was a clear

37:37

binary. This is in the nineties.

37:39

It is a clear binary. You are

37:41

gay or you are straight. That was

37:44

it. So I was like, I know, in

37:46

what everyone is telling me, I

37:49

probably fit more into the gay aspect, even

37:52

though I see myself as

37:54

a woman, and my attraction is to only

37:56

men and being someone that has never

37:59

been attracted to women or desired

38:01

And I like to say this in in breaking

38:04

down sexuality, I think sexuality is about desire,

38:06

Like who do you desire to wake up

38:08

next to? Who you desire to want to spend time

38:10

with? Who do you desire to want to have your most

38:13

wonderful moments with sexual included.

38:16

So that's what I look at it. And so I was like, well, I never wanted

38:18

that with women. I just felt like a sisterhood.

38:21

And I loved what Bethany said so much

38:23

about like we're learning and

38:25

evolving, and I, you know, I do think

38:27

there is space between the fluidity

38:30

and the spectrum. I feel like I'm as

38:32

fixed as fixed could be in in a sense,

38:34

I don't know, like I don't know what I would

38:36

say about my life in twenty years from now, but

38:39

I pretty much know like ever since I was very

38:41

very young, I've always known I wanted

38:43

to be a woman, and I always knew

38:46

that I was attracted to men, and I don't

38:48

know how that was going to happen. So was

38:50

there any like specific moment that

38:52

you realized maybe there's an option

38:54

for you to come into your identity as a woman.

38:57

I remember reading a magazine I think it was Cosmo

39:00

when I was in high school, and it was literally like

39:02

about a girl from Thailand

39:05

who had transitioned and

39:07

she had met a guy and she

39:09

was in him and he liked her too, and he

39:12

magically like liked her so much that

39:14

he married her and that he was

39:16

okay because she had transition from male

39:18

to female. And I was just like

39:21

my mind was blown, and I was like that

39:23

really happens. I was like that really,

39:25

like you can really do that, and you still don't

39:27

even understand how it works. This is like why

39:29

people don't even understand like coming

39:31

to terms with like learning how you understand

39:33

yourself as a gay person, as a trans

39:36

person, as a straight person, and so like

39:38

the only difference is for some people in the queer community

39:40

is like we've had all of this time to really try

39:42

to figure out what's going on and

39:45

have the work that we internally do, and

39:47

then we come to an AHA

39:49

moment and we have this

39:51

embracing of the aha moment is what I

39:53

like to call it, and you go, this is what it

39:56

is, this is what I need to do, and

39:58

I'm ready to stand up in that love

40:00

that I just feel there are a lot of people, straight,

40:03

cys, hetero people, you know, that kind of just

40:06

float into this like I don't have

40:08

to do any work, I don't really have to think about

40:10

what I'm feeling, because I still believe at

40:12

the end of the day, even with the

40:14

movement, the l g B t Q plus

40:17

movement, what we would realize

40:19

is that there are so many people that are

40:21

fluid, that are on a spectrum

40:23

that are not necessarily fixed.

40:29

And so yes, right, and so

40:31

we have this, we have

40:34

this construct that we're bound

40:36

to that I think it's primarily

40:39

about money and power, and that's

40:41

a different podcast. It's

40:43

about advantages and privilege

40:45

and what is allotted to you. And I know, being

40:48

someone black, it's like it's

40:50

not okay for you to want to be different

40:53

or to be different, or to be gay or to be trans

40:55

because you're messing up. You're sucking it up for everyone

40:57

else in the group, and you're

41:00

or be in a nuisance and you're being a problem.

41:02

And you know, I mean I was never

41:04

in I was never sent to conversion therapy. But

41:06

what I like to say is in the Black Church when you're when

41:09

you're raised in the Black Church, if

41:11

you come out when you're still

41:13

young, you are gonna be taken

41:15

to church and you're gonna have a

41:18

discussion with your pastor. This

41:20

is what happens. And the

41:23

parents, the mother, the father of both, they're

41:25

like, we're gonna go see Pastor Gibson

41:28

or whomever. Shout out to my old pastor, Pastor Gibson.

41:30

We're gonna have a talk. We're gonna chat, We're

41:32

gonna say, I know you have these feelings.

41:35

And it's always about you having these feelings,

41:37

but they're not predicated on merit. They're not

41:39

okay, and this is not how you get through life

41:41

and this is not how you make a way for yourself. So

41:43

we need to deal with it. And it's always

41:46

under this. It's always

41:48

about it being wrong. You're never given

41:50

the space to be able to be like, how

41:53

do you really feel today, Mila? How

41:55

do you feel Alex? What are you thinking

41:57

about? Bethany? Can you express to

41:59

me that was non existent?

42:02

And also for me growing up to is like moving

42:04

to New York was about I

42:07

need to get away. I need to go to

42:09

a place where I feel like I can be my most creative,

42:11

expressive self and somewhere where I can feel

42:13

like I can discover and explore that real self.

42:16

And you know, being here,

42:18

I learned to own myself. I

42:20

mean, and I always say this too, It's like, you know, we have to

42:22

find safe spaces because not everyone has the

42:24

safety to be able to do what they want to do. I had

42:26

someone asked me, while I live with my mother

42:29

and they don't agree with me being trans, and

42:31

they don't you know, I can't And I said,

42:33

listen, boo, when you can figure

42:35

out how to get out of or

42:38

from under their roof, whether you're making

42:40

your own money or you found your own place,

42:42

you kind of have to appease the situation

42:44

because that's your livelihood. But once you're

42:47

able to step out of that, you can start making

42:49

decisions for yourself. And then I

42:51

was completely convinced

42:54

that my I would never speak to my family. What

42:56

was that conversation with your family? Like

42:59

I was raised, is in love. My mother

43:01

is one of the most amazing women in the world, and

43:03

she's always supported me and loved me. Confusions

43:07

conversations, yes, some you know,

43:09

headbutting, of course, but I

43:12

was ready to accept the fact that my family

43:14

mother aunt, uncle's father

43:17

could not accept it. So I made

43:20

the choice. And it's like it's like when

43:22

you're when you're just um,

43:24

what do you know when when you say it's you're all in, Like

43:27

you get to a point where you're just so all in that

43:29

you don't care. And I am

43:32

not to get off on a tangent. I'm trying to encourage the

43:34

people that I encounter, especially

43:37

straight identified men that realized

43:40

that they're attracted to or interested in trans women,

43:43

to be able to fight for their their

43:46

needs and their attractions and to make space

43:48

for the things that they really want and

43:51

love. Um and so because

43:53

we just consistently get left on the wayside. But

43:55

I just was like, my family not gonna have it. And

43:58

I was like, peace, y'all

44:00

can take it however you want. I have to focus on

44:02

my life. And then the questions

44:04

come and then that you know, you know what I

44:06

want to know. I want to understand, um, well

44:08

why does it have to be this way? Well why can't you just perform?

44:11

And why can't you just do this?

44:13

Sometimes? And I was like, well, I

44:16

wake up and I go to sleep being

44:19

this feeling, this embodying, this

44:21

and this is me and I am Mila,

44:24

and it needs to you know, and I have to just live

44:26

into that and lean into that. And eventually

44:29

my mother obviously she's she kind

44:31

of got the picture because

44:33

it was no longer a joke or a game, because

44:36

a lot of it starts out being funny, and

44:38

a lot of it is a joke. A lot of

44:41

comedy surrounds being queer, being

44:43

trans, being different. It's always

44:45

we are always the butt of the joke. We're always

44:47

the comedic relief. Every comedian

44:50

has done a joke about gender identity,

44:52

and I will say that some of them are really funny

44:55

and some of them are not. But it's it's

44:57

like we have to really understand that the human experience

44:59

is so vast, and it's like the

45:02

boxes don't ever allow

45:04

us to get to those places. And this is how you have people

45:06

coming out

45:07

at different

45:09

places in their life. I was never married to a woman.

45:12

There are some trans women who were married to women when

45:14

they you know, before transitioning,

45:16

and so this is how you have the different nuances

45:19

come into play. But that

45:21

all being said, because I'm sure you have lots of questions.

45:23

I just I feel like I

45:26

was just about to say I have hewn, but

45:28

you aren't answered all of them like you literally answered

45:30

all of them. I mean, I think the biggest thing for me is, uh,

45:33

can you tell us about the first time that you experienced

45:36

a trans woman living what you

45:38

perceived as an authentic day

45:40

to day life. I did come to New

45:42

York and I started touring and

45:44

doing theater and doing like Broadway

45:47

show shows on the road or whatever. And I

45:49

would see trans women in

45:52

the club scene, in the gay club

45:54

scene, performing. And what you

45:56

have to remember is, which is very

45:58

strange for me, is because I was basically

46:00

reared in gay culture, in

46:03

the gay scene, in the gay nightlife, uh,

46:05

you know, experience, and so it's

46:08

kind of a it's a little bit of a rabbit hole

46:10

when you're a straight identified

46:13

like woman on the binary that

46:15

happens to be trans, where

46:18

all of that information comes from a lot

46:20

of the women I saw, they were performers. I

46:22

never saw their humanity. I never

46:24

saw the person behind

46:27

the dollar bills, the shimmy

46:30

dress, the you know, show numbers.

46:32

And I was just like, it was not until and

46:34

I say this in every even interview. Candice

46:37

Kane, who is one of my dear Sisters.

46:39

She was on Dirty Sexy Money, and I am Kate.

46:42

I saw her performing and I

46:44

saw her show and it was the first time that

46:46

I witnessed a trans woman that

46:49

was not only like visually mesmerizing

46:52

and stunning, but funny

46:54

and witty and real and

46:56

honest. And I just

46:59

I saw the human. And I have a friend who would

47:01

say when I first saw her perform,

47:03

he's He's like, that was the moment. He's like, I saw

47:05

it in your eyes and you realized, oh

47:08

my god, that's that's that's me. And

47:11

I did. I felt, this is like, that's

47:13

that's who I am. I I have that. I'm

47:15

like, I feel the same way I want to be that. How

47:18

does that happen? And then it wasn't until

47:20

I also say this, It wasn't until I met Laverne Um

47:22

Laverne Cox that I

47:25

had a friend that gave me tools

47:27

that was like, girl, I knew

47:29

you. I knew a girl when I met you. We

47:32

all have to do it in our own time, but this

47:34

is where you go, this is who you talk to, this

47:36

is what you kind of like if you need help with finding

47:38

clinics and all this stuff. And I was like,

47:41

oh my god, this is what it

47:43

is, and and then finding the path to that for myself.

47:46

It was like, I know the kind of woman that I

47:48

want to be, Like, I want

47:50

to be real, I want to be authentic,

47:52

I want to be positive. I want to be a representative

47:55

of something you know that always

47:57

gets a bad rap, and I want to be able

47:59

to change by just being visible and

48:02

showing people that, like, what you think you know about

48:04

us is not the truth and it's not always

48:07

true, and that um dispel

48:09

a lot of you know, so well,

48:11

you've definitely become a visible representation

48:13

for millions of trans kids.

48:15

How often does that really factor

48:18

into your daily thought process of how you

48:20

want to create and what message you want to put out

48:22

there every day? I would say that's

48:24

uh. I would just I've

48:26

been the same person my whole life. That's really

48:28

what what's interesting. And

48:31

you know, the wildest dream of becoming

48:33

like the person you dream to become the woman

48:36

I have dreamt of becoming like living that is

48:38

just gratitude. And it's just like I've

48:41

gotten to a place where, I mean, honestly,

48:43

no story is too sacred to tell

48:45

because we're storytellers.

48:47

And that's what we're supposed to do. I think, while we're

48:49

here and in this space, what do you have if

48:51

you can't tell your story? What what do you

48:54

have if you can't share the experience

48:56

of what your specific journey has given

48:58

you. And that's what helps people real

49:00

And you know, being an artist and a musician, and we you

49:02

know, we work with people that write music for us. We

49:05

collaborate. You know, someone might write a song for

49:07

you and say like alex I wan should do this? Me love,

49:09

can you do this? We have to take

49:12

the time in between you

49:14

know, doing things for other people's or other reasons,

49:16

to just be real and to

49:18

give of ourselves because

49:21

that's what really helps people, you know,

49:23

not saying the right thing and

49:25

not doing the thing that you think people want to hear.

49:28

It's really about transparency, Mila.

49:31

I mean, I'm very lucky that I've already had the opportunity

49:33

in life to create art with you. I'm very lucky that

49:35

I have the future opportunity to continue creating

49:37

art with you. Hearing your story only

49:39

makes me love you more. And I

49:42

think you are the perfect

49:44

example of seeing representation

49:47

and in the lack thereof being

49:49

representation, not only for other people,

49:51

but for yourself. Uh, And so I love

49:53

you even more after hearing things

49:55

about you that I had never heard um and hearing

49:58

you tell your story the way that you did. We're

50:00

going to take a quick ad break when we come

50:02

back. We got Bethany back with us, we got

50:04

Mila already here with us, and we have

50:06

some messages for the CIS folks.

50:09

Is what we have here, is what we titled the section.

50:12

But we're gonna be talking about just kind of simple questions,

50:14

just a quick run through for those

50:16

of you out there that want to continue

50:18

learning more educating yourselves on

50:21

learning the things that are not real or not

50:23

right or not true, and learning

50:25

the things that are. So we'll be right back and

50:27

we'll talk to you about I

50:30

am very, very blessed to be in the presence of

50:32

Bethany Myers and me legient beautiful

50:34

guests pod presence. I love that that could

50:37

always And we've

50:39

had some beautiful conversations about choosing

50:41

labels that you are comfortable with using

50:44

for yourself, about being representation,

50:46

seeing representation, and now to close

50:48

it out, I wanted to have a moment. I

50:51

am a CIS gendered heterosexual

50:54

man, and I wanted to make this

50:56

section kind of a quick rapid

50:58

fire question and or place

51:00

that my listeners can come to and learn

51:03

things that they might not know already,

51:05

or maybe become a little bit more comfortable with things

51:07

that they might know a little bit about but not be comfortable

51:11

with. But before we get into that, Mila,

51:13

you were saying something in the break I actually stopped

51:15

you because I wanted you to say it here

51:17

on the section, So please take it away. Yeah,

51:20

no, I was just I wanted to just pickyback onto

51:22

Bethany when they were saying

51:25

how important it is to give

51:27

yourself space to make

51:30

you know and not necessarily make mistakes, but that

51:32

you don't have to be perfect when you're

51:34

learning that someone has a different

51:36

pronoun or you know, you meet someone

51:38

and they go by, they them there, and

51:41

you're still a little confused and you slip up and you mess

51:43

up because I mean, for me,

51:45

it's about intention, you know, And when

51:47

someone apologizes to me, I know when the

51:50

apology is coming from a place

51:52

of like, I'm sorry, I didn't know, because I

51:54

always say I stand to be corrected,

51:57

and I've it has happened for me, you know, I've gone to

51:59

places, and if I see someone that's presenting mail

52:01

or masculine, if I say excuse me,

52:03

sir in that moment and they're

52:05

like, um, I'm like, oh, I'm so

52:07

sorry. You know, please inform me. I

52:10

just always stand to be corrected, and it can be awkward,

52:12

it could be uncomfortable, but like, hey, we're all

52:14

learning at times and we don't all have the answer.

52:17

I love that. So the first question that I have that I

52:19

think is something very important. It

52:21

took me some time to really learn the difference.

52:24

But here on the podcast, either of you can

52:26

answer this, or you can both answer this piggyback

52:28

off of each other. Can you explain the difference

52:30

between transgender and gender

52:32

nonconforming? Because I feel like you've

52:35

both mentioned growing up the way that the world's

52:37

been, it's been a very binary mindset

52:41

from the eighties into the nineties and then into

52:43

now where we are continuing to learn. For

52:45

my listeners out there who might throw

52:48

all of it into one category, which it absolutely

52:50

isn't. Can you explain the difference

52:52

between transgender and gender nonconforming?

52:55

I just would say that it's an umbrella

52:58

term. It's like it's an umbrella kind of situation.

53:01

You know, there's think

53:03

of, I don't know, building

53:05

with rooms and you know, under

53:07

the trans apartment

53:10

complex, I guess if you will, there are in different rooms

53:12

that people kind of inhabit and

53:14

you know, and they're not exclusive to just one

53:16

room. But like, and I'd love to hear Bethany's

53:20

description of this, but personally, like I

53:22

identify as a trans heterosexual

53:26

trans women, Um, you know, I'm

53:28

on the binary, so I don't identify as

53:30

non binary. But you can be trans and

53:32

identify as non binary. That's very possible.

53:35

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a

53:37

great way to think of it. You know, it's

53:39

important to note that different people use

53:42

their words in a different way, and

53:44

I think that meanings can kind of hold

53:46

a lot. But for a gender nonconforming

53:49

person, I would say that I would normally

53:51

think of that it's not necessarily adhering

53:54

to male or female.

53:57

Whereas somebody who identifies as

53:59

trying and is identified

54:01

at birth as one gender and then a

54:03

transition into another gender

54:06

and like being called that specifically,

54:08

just like Nila just said about it being

54:10

more on the binary, you know, she's on the binary,

54:13

trans heterosexual person, whereas,

54:16

yeah, that

54:19

is that is as simple as as it needs

54:22

to be in its explanation. Like you

54:24

said, it is not just one or the other. It's not

54:26

just that, oh, you are this or you are that.

54:28

Um. So thank you guys for explaining that further.

54:31

Now for both of you, how do you manage

54:33

the feelings? And do you ever get tired?

54:35

Do you ever get annoyed about explaining

54:37

your existence? Oh?

54:40

Um,

54:43

I I really

54:45

believe it's a part of my

54:47

spiritual work. Yes,

54:50

I get tired. I don't want to have

54:52

to do it. But there's a difference between feeling

54:54

like you have to do it and really wanting to do it because

54:57

I really want to share that

54:59

information. And I think that's why we exist.

55:01

And I was saying this to Laverne yesterday on on

55:03

my Instagram Live, that we

55:06

have queer people and people that

55:08

are not on this binary

55:11

necessarily are a gift. We

55:14

have a different way of receiving

55:17

energy from the earth and the light,

55:19

and there's so much around us that that

55:21

puts us on ourselves, that makes us say that we're not

55:24

you know, viable, we're not worthy, we're not you

55:26

shouldn't be that. It's no, no, no, no no,

55:28

And the reality is. It's like there's so much Yes,

55:31

if people would just listen, if people

55:33

would just make space, there's so much

55:35

to gain from learning from the gifts that we

55:38

have. So I want to share that. I want

55:40

to share that gift of telling you

55:42

know what I'm doing now when I'm on tender and I'm

55:44

talking this on guy and he's trying to be a little bit of a knucklehead,

55:46

and it's like having to explain myself all the time,

55:49

and they're never doing any work, and

55:51

they're never reading anything or googling

55:53

anything. You know, it is amazing

55:55

when a guy will say to me, I've read about that. I

55:58

was thinking about that. Yeah, I know. You

56:00

know, as a transforman, I know you deal with a lot of stuff

56:02

like I'm sorry that you have to deal with that. That's

56:05

comforting because you're paying attention, But

56:07

when people are just not paying attention, it's like,

56:09

how do you expect anyone to show up for you? Please?

56:13

Bethany take Yeah,

56:15

that was absolutely beautiful. And

56:17

I think you know, also, Meli, you were

56:19

talking about race before, and I'm

56:22

a white person, and you

56:24

know the black trends. Women I think

56:26

have to deal with this. I mean they do deal with this

56:28

and skills that are one million

56:30

times more than what I've ever had

56:33

to experience, you know. Um

56:35

So, So with that being said,

56:38

I do think there are pieces of this that can be really

56:40

exhaustive. There's a part of me

56:42

that definitely wants to teach. I

56:45

find I get the most exhausted

56:48

when the queer

56:50

community, so my family can't

56:53

get it or don't doesn't try to use pronouns.

56:57

That has been a big frustration for me. Like I've

56:59

actually had some friends who

57:02

just you know, it's all like not

57:04

even anant, yeah,

57:07

just like not even a little bit. And I think that's

57:09

so disheartening because it's like if

57:12

you can't get it, then how

57:14

do you my

57:16

mom ever going to get it? You know. Like so

57:19

I think that part is tough. But

57:21

then the other side of it is like you get so

57:23

much encouragement, and like I

57:26

have a lot of parents, um

57:29

in my Instagram following who are like trying

57:31

to teach their kids and help them understand

57:34

what a non binary person is and they're

57:36

like, today, you know, my

57:39

little kid like looked at your Instagram and was

57:41

like they're such a handsome girl,

57:44

you know, or like trying to say these things, and

57:46

you just see that there's a teacher and that there there

57:48

are people who want to learn and grow, and

57:51

so I think they counterbalance each other often.

57:55

Before I ask the next question, I do want to shout out Mela's

57:57

Instagram. If you are on Tinder

57:59

and you match with Mila, you better come

58:01

correct because if you don't, you're getting

58:04

called out like I've seen Mila

58:09

go off on some fools out there.

58:11

So if you're gonna come to if you're gonna come

58:13

to me, Lontenda, you better come correct. Uh.

58:17

Kind of expanding on that, what is

58:19

one thing that you both wish

58:21

sis people understood a little bit more

58:23

about your community. I

58:26

wish, well, this is

58:28

a little bit about a different community. But

58:30

myself and my partner are we

58:33

have a not a monogamoust polymers

58:35

relationship, and um,

58:38

I wish that people understood more

58:40

that it's like not just about the sex. And

58:42

I think that also goes like for the careeer,

58:44

like just all the way around that It's like that

58:47

people who are bisexuals, it's not just

58:49

because they want to have sex with everyone. People who

58:51

are polly it's such just about sex, like

58:53

it actually is about meaningful

58:56

connections and relationships

58:58

and about being able to be or more authentic

59:00

self and for me not being held

59:02

by these restrictive labels that say

59:04

I am this or that. So

59:08

yeah, I think that's my my number one there.

59:10

Um yeah, I would I would agree with that

59:12

too. Um. I would just say that six

59:15

people, black trans women are

59:18

the ultimate gift. And you

59:20

need to stand up. You need to say something when

59:22

you see something. You need to back us

59:25

up. You need to support us, you need to

59:27

love us. There is such a depletion

59:29

of love and respect and understanding

59:32

and healing for the black trans woman, and

59:34

that is what she needs right now. I'm specifically

59:37

talking about black trans women because that's

59:39

me and that's my sisters, and

59:41

there are so many people who can love us in the dark,

59:44

but just can't find it to love us in the light. And

59:46

you need to figure it. We need to we need to

59:48

change that. That has to that. It's

59:50

changing, and it's got to change. It's gotta continue

59:53

to change. And it only happens

59:56

by making light

1:00:00

of what's real.

1:00:02

God damn, you meet a trans

1:00:04

woman. She's true, she's a trans woman,

1:00:07

and what and great and let

1:00:09

her be? Let her do her thing. She's

1:00:11

cute. I'm feeling her great. Your

1:00:14

bro or your buddy sees her and it's like, I

1:00:16

think she's cute. The first thing that happens

1:00:18

is a disclaimer. Well, no,

1:00:20

no, no, I don't think you you might want to no no, no

1:00:22

no no, Like let people

1:00:25

step into their own desire

1:00:28

and let people make their own choices. And

1:00:30

I know that we're all kind of taught

1:00:33

to be like, go with what your family says,

1:00:35

go with what your friends say, because I deal

1:00:37

with that too, even as a queer person, as a trans woman,

1:00:39

like my girlfriends would be like, girl, you can talk

1:00:41

to him or whatever. But like, we

1:00:44

really need to create more room for people,

1:00:46

Like even Bethany was saying about being polly

1:00:49

or being open or all like, there's

1:00:51

so much that people are just misinformation. It's

1:00:54

like, what if you actually really just let go

1:00:56

of it and just let it be, then

1:00:58

you'll probably learn something new and be like, oh,

1:01:01

all right, y'all are spitting heat. Y'all are

1:01:03

spitting heat today, Mila,

1:01:06

I literally want to have like Sunday service

1:01:08

with you. I would be down

1:01:10

with it down and I love

1:01:13

it. I'm watching I'm watching Unico all the

1:01:15

time, and I'm like, I'm sending you a huge

1:01:17

care bear hug right now. And I think

1:01:19

this is the beginning of like we must

1:01:21

stay connected, because I would anytime you'd

1:01:23

ever want to talk about anything or have me be a

1:01:25

part of anything, I'm down. I have

1:01:28

one last question. What is one

1:01:30

thing that you both think sis folks can do to

1:01:33

make your day to day lives just

1:01:35

better. I would just say, listen,

1:01:37

stop over talking. Doing

1:01:39

exactly what Alex has done in this podcast.

1:01:41

You sat here and you listened, and you

1:01:43

didn't interrupt us, and you didn't make it

1:01:45

about you. Yeah, I mean

1:01:48

I would definitely second the listening aspect.

1:01:50

I would say, doing research on your own. You

1:01:53

know, Mila, I'm sure that you get this

1:01:55

all the time. I do love to

1:01:57

educate people, and I love to help people

1:01:59

think of ways that they can learn, but simultaneously,

1:02:02

like if you can google it, like,

1:02:07

it's not my job to create

1:02:09

the curriculum for your queer learning experience.

1:02:12

UM and I think that people just very

1:02:15

simple google searches, Like especially

1:02:18

I found so many people don't really understand

1:02:20

the difference between like gender

1:02:22

identity, gender expression, and gender

1:02:24

assignment UM and sometimes

1:02:26

people don't even know to look up these things. But if

1:02:28

you just kind of look up some like really

1:02:31

basic stuff on gender, you can find a lot of

1:02:33

information that can really help

1:02:35

you along, you know, So I think that's

1:02:37

an important thing. Well, thank

1:02:39

you both, honestly, thank you so much both

1:02:41

of you for coming on the podcast,

1:02:43

for allowing me to be a student.

1:02:46

And I really do appreciate you for applauding

1:02:49

my ability to not interrupt

1:02:51

you guys or interrupt you all.

1:02:54

But at the same time, for

1:02:57

me, I loved just sitting here and listening

1:02:59

and learning more and more and more. So

1:03:02

thank you both for coming on here and letting me

1:03:04

be a student, letting me learn and

1:03:06

letting me unlearned things that I thought I knew

1:03:09

that now I I know better. So

1:03:11

I appreciate both of you. We're

1:03:13

all learning, we're all continuing to learn,

1:03:15

so that's good too, all right. I feel

1:03:17

like I have a lot of takeaways for this episode.

1:03:20

My biggest takeaway is that

1:03:22

the world is always

1:03:24

evolving, It's always changing, it's always

1:03:26

leveling up. Therefore, cultures are constantly

1:03:29

evolving. People are constantly evolving, Communities

1:03:31

are constantly evolving. Who we are

1:03:34

is evolving. And so my biggest

1:03:36

takeaway is get with it,

1:03:38

evolve with us, like don't be, don't

1:03:40

try, and like stay back at the old update.

1:03:43

Every time your phone gets an update, update your phone,

1:03:45

update your life, update your brain. Okay,

1:03:48

so that's my biggest takeaway. Every time

1:03:50

your phone has a new update, you update your new phone.

1:03:52

So update yourself, all right, you want you don't

1:03:54

want to miss out on the cool emojis

1:03:56

or the new languages or

1:03:58

the sick dark mode. That's like what life is

1:04:01

like. You gotta get that. You gotta get that update going.

1:04:03

So that's my biggest takeaway. My

1:04:05

next takeaway is that if you don't know

1:04:07

where to start, start by just making an effort.

1:04:09

Simply making an effort is a

1:04:12

meaningful thing, and it's okay to make

1:04:14

mistakes. I've made tons of mistakes on

1:04:16

my journey and I probably am going to continue

1:04:18

making mistakes. But the main

1:04:21

focus is that you make an effort and you

1:04:23

lead with a kind heart, which is going to make

1:04:25

the world a better place. The more people who

1:04:27

are open allies, the

1:04:29

safer that this world becomes for all

1:04:32

of us. And my last takeaway

1:04:34

is that the world is constantly evolving.

1:04:37

Everything about it. So our culture is

1:04:39

evolving, who we are is evolving,

1:04:42

our language is evolving. So

1:04:44

don't get stuck back in like the old

1:04:46

ways. Don't try and stick with what

1:04:49

you used to know like constantly unlearned

1:04:51

and relearn just like your phone. And

1:04:54

uh. And this is the moment of the podcast that

1:04:56

I know you're gonna love, Mila, where we do

1:04:58

some shameless promo. I want you both

1:05:00

to just promote the hell out of whatever

1:05:02

you're doing right now, whatever it is that you

1:05:05

want to help support or promote

1:05:08

for your own careers, for your lives, for

1:05:10

your friends lives, whatever it is, you both

1:05:12

got some time to do it. Mila hit us

1:05:15

all right, so you guys can follow me. You all

1:05:17

can follow me at at the Mela

1:05:19

Jam. T h E M I L A j A

1:05:21

M. I am the only one. I

1:05:24

just released a single called

1:05:26

Number One. You can check it out and you can

1:05:28

stream it until your heart's content on

1:05:30

Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, Amazon

1:05:33

Music everywhere actually matter of fact,

1:05:35

just go to iTunes, Apple Music or Spotify and just

1:05:37

search Mila Jam.

1:05:39

You can keep up with me. Um everything

1:05:42

is at the Mela Jam. And I

1:05:45

always say this be seen, be

1:05:47

you be beautiful. Mm hmm, Lee

1:05:51

Anthony, come on, keep that energy

1:05:53

up. Let's so

1:05:58

you can follow me at Bethany's see Myers

1:06:01

and also at the Boocome Project.

1:06:03

I'm definitely going to take some time to

1:06:05

plug the Bocome Project here. I'm

1:06:08

so proud of this business. It's

1:06:10

a monthly subscription, it's

1:06:12

a workouts in your home. There is

1:06:14

not weight loss talk, there's not body

1:06:17

bashing talk, there's not all the ship

1:06:19

that the wellness industry

1:06:22

feeds to you. You know, wellness just feeds

1:06:24

off of insecurities, and this is very

1:06:26

much about finding your strength and being exactly

1:06:29

who you are. And I'm also really

1:06:31

proud to say that we've had so many

1:06:33

people from the queer community participating

1:06:36

in this workout, which obviously means a lot

1:06:38

to me. I think, you know,

1:06:40

I I always say that I think queer people

1:06:43

have the hardest time existing in their own

1:06:45

bodies, especially people

1:06:47

underneath the trans umbrella, and so

1:06:49

this can be a really great way to

1:06:51

feel at home in your own space. Your

1:06:54

own space meaning your body is

1:06:56

your own space, you know, and to be able to feel it over

1:06:59

there spit

1:07:01

and fired both of my guests today. Thank you

1:07:03

both so much for coming on the podcast

1:07:05

today, and thank you for listening to the podcast. If you're listening

1:07:08

to it right now, we will see you next time.

1:07:10

Until then, we

1:07:17

really want you to get the help you need, so if you

1:07:19

need help, please seek independent advice from

1:07:21

a competent healthcare or mental health professional.

1:07:24

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1:07:26

those of the podcast author or individuals participating

1:07:28

in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I

1:07:31

heart Media or its employees. This podcast should

1:07:33

not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,

1:07:35

counseling, or therapy. Listening to the podcast

1:07:37

does not established dr patient relationship with

1:07:39

hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into

1:07:41

It or I Heart Media. No guarantee

1:07:43

is given regarding the accuracy of any statements

1:07:46

or opinions made on this podcast. Oh

1:07:48

if that's a doozy.