0:00

My name is Alex, and I've been diagnosed with anticipatory

0:03

anxiety. No be

0:05

alright, no, al

0:08

right, will be all

0:10

right for ever? No

0:15

be alrl

0:18

right, No, will be all

0:20

right for ever? Alright?

0:23

So check this out. This is pretty sick. Actually, I don't

0:25

know if it's sick, but it's sick that I'm dealing with it. Uh

0:28

So, after a long

0:30

time, I mean after this is years and

0:32

years and years of knowing that something

0:35

wasn't right in my brain, I finally

0:37

decided in to get

0:39

a therapist for the first time ever. It

0:42

was really thanks to some

0:44

specific people in my life, Ron Star who's

0:46

been on our podcast before,

0:49

my girlfriend Madison, family, and

0:51

friends outside of that who are all like, yeah,

0:54

you should get a therapist. It's not lame,

0:56

it's not weak, it's not stupid

0:58

or or embarras. Are seeing to have a therapist,

1:01

you should do it. And I finally was like, Okay, cool,

1:03

and I'm going to shout out my therapist because he's dope

1:05

and his name is Phil. Shoutouts

1:07

Phil. Uh And within

1:10

one conversation with Phil, he

1:12

had told me that I had anxiety and we

1:14

kind of started pinpointing exactly

1:17

I don't know if it's like a type. Honestly, I'm gonna I want

1:19

to preface, as I do with all

1:21

of our mental health episodes, that I

1:23

am not a therapist. This is why I have therapists

1:25

come on the show, so I kind of use human

1:28

terms. So he was trying to pinpoint, like

1:30

what kind of anxiety I had, and we came

1:32

up with this conclusion and this

1:34

diagnosis that I have anticipatory anxiety,

1:36

which means that the anxiety that

1:38

I have is from anticipating what potentially

1:41

might happen, uh and kind of projecting

1:43

what may come and really freaking out

1:45

about it before I even have a chance to go through it.

1:47

I really don't know if that's normal. I don't know how

1:49

common it is. That's just how it went. And

1:52

as soon as he started telling me what

1:54

could potentially be symptoms

1:56

of anticipatory anxiety, I thought this man

1:59

knew my life, like he is spitting

2:01

everything that I go through on a daily basis,

2:03

from worrying if my friends

2:06

still like me or if they have a

2:08

problem with me, or worrying

2:10

if my girlfriend's actually mad about something,

2:12

or worrying about my parents

2:15

health for no reason when they're

2:17

both very healthy fortunately,

2:19

uh. And it really was like this

2:22

door opened and while

2:24

I still have anxiety and I most

2:27

likely always will, I was allowed

2:29

to see it and go, oh, that's

2:32

that's just my anticipatory anxiety. So on an

2:34

everyday basis, as soon as I start freaking out about

2:36

something, you know, I've worked through ways that I deal

2:38

with it with my therapist. But more than

2:40

those ways, it was just nice knowing that

2:43

I'm not like crazy.

2:46

But it was just nice knowing that I didn't have

2:49

to deal with this alone and that what I

2:51

was dealing with is actually, unfortunately,

2:55

very very common, especially

2:57

after this last year I

3:00

think get uncovered for a lot of people, or it really

3:02

started brewing up in a lot of people anxiety.

3:05

So that got me thinking, with the way that the

3:07

world is today is anxiety

3:10

mandatory. Yo,

3:12

what's up. It's alex Ion. No, this is my podcast.

3:14

Let's get into it, and we're going to

3:17

get into something that's very very personal. We've

3:19

spoken about it quite a bit on this podcast,

3:21

but it is something that we wanted to highlight today,

3:24

and it is anxiety. We're

3:26

talking about all different types of anxiety,

3:29

all different symptoms of anxiety,

3:31

all different situations and in the

3:33

way that anxiety kind of takes over a

3:35

lot of people's lives in the world. And

3:37

when I say we, I mean my two amazing

3:40

guests, and I first, up, I actually

3:42

know this person. Usually it's the first

3:44

guest is a stranger, but the first

3:46

guest. She is starring

3:48

in ABC's American Housewife. She's

3:50

on the Disney Channel original movie series Zombies.

3:53

She's also an amazing singer. She released

3:55

her debut album Trust in December

3:57

of twenty nineteen. We also

4:00

pranked one of my previous

4:02

hosts on Radio Disney,

4:05

Candice, and she's just she's just a chill

4:07

ass vibe. Honestly, that's what we're gonna

4:09

just say, chill ass vibe, chill ass individual.

4:12

The one and only Meg Donnelly. How are you,

4:14

Meg, Hey, I'm good.

4:16

It's good to see you again. Good to see

4:18

you again as well. Um, I'm glad.

4:20

I'm glad that you're here, and I'm glad that you

4:23

are another person of influence who

4:25

is open about their experiences

4:27

in the mental health world, and and I'm super

4:29

stoked to talk about it with you. And I'm glad

4:32

that even though both of us are entertainers, and

4:34

we deal with anxiety ourselves. We don't

4:36

have to be the experts here. We got an expert

4:38

here, so we don't have to worry about it. Um

4:40

and it's our other guest. She is a therapist

4:42

practicing in Los Angeles only for a for

4:44

a short while in Los Angeles. She just told

4:47

us she's moving to New York, specializing

4:49

in the treatment of obsessive compulsive

4:51

disorder also known as o c D, also

4:54

specializing in anxiety disorders

4:56

and body dysmorphic disorder b D

4:58

d UH. In the addition, she is

5:00

a writer with Psychology Today and

5:03

Very Well Mind. Her Instagram account

5:05

is Obsessively ever After, and

5:07

she advocates for all things mental health on that

5:10

Instagram that was a big mouthful

5:12

Allegra cast In's how are you WHI

5:15

I'm good, How are you? I'm

5:17

doing well. I'm excited to be talking with you because it seems

5:19

like you really just do it all and you know it all.

5:21

I know. I don't want to make you big shoes to fill,

5:23

but it seems

5:25

like you're doing enough that we can have some some

5:28

real conversation and talk about it. Today

5:31

we're talking. We've got three topics. The way that the podcast

5:33

goes is, first, Meg, you and I are going

5:35

to be going one on one and we're gonna be talking about

5:37

everyday anxiety, dealing with it on a daily

5:40

basis. We'll take a break, and then when we come back

5:42

from that break, Allegra and you and I are gonna

5:44

be talking about toxic thoughts on

5:46

loop, kind of really deep diving into,

5:49

um, the more serious side

5:51

of mental health issues, specifically anxiety,

5:54

and then lastly mandatory anxiety.

5:57

But before we get into those, I have a question that I

5:59

ask all of my guests, and that question

6:01

is what are you doing to improve yourself

6:04

this week? Um. It's currently

6:06

Friday. It's been five days. Saturday

6:08

and Sundays are kind of like my junk food days and

6:10

my like chill out days. So I didn't want to start

6:12

my New Year's resolutions until Monday.

6:15

UM. And so this week is actually exciting because

6:18

I had all of my New Year's resolutions,

6:20

which I am proud to say I have stuck

6:22

to the first week, and there

6:24

were a lot. One of them was not procrastinating,

6:27

So I did that. I did UM. Usually

6:29

I'm up until the wire filming my YouTube

6:31

videos at the very last minute and then posting them.

6:34

I got that video done a day early,

6:36

which I was hyped about. I've been eating

6:38

healthy all week long, except for was my girlfriend's

6:40

birthday this week and I had my cheat meal

6:42

with her, which I was allowed. Um,

6:45

and that I allowed myself, nobody's holding

6:47

me to eat healthy. And then lastly, my

6:49

biggest thing was flossing. I went to the dentist

6:52

and miraculously had no cavities

6:54

after being terrible in twenty about

6:56

my flossing, and I knew that it was a

6:58

sign from the heavens that I need to floss

7:01

more, because I wasn't going to get

7:03

that opportunity to have no cavities again

7:05

after not flossing much. So I've been

7:07

flossing every night and every morning, which

7:09

I usually do. Like me, I was pretty much like

7:11

a morning flosser. But now I floss

7:14

at night too, and that's cool.

7:16

It's a big difference. You sleep really well

7:18

with some some clean teeth. But now that

7:20

you have an example, Meg, what have you been doing

7:22

this week to to better yourself? This

7:25

week? Um? This week, I've

7:28

been trying to be more active.

7:30

Exercise is not like the greatest thing

7:33

in the world, but um, it's

7:35

firsthand experience. I agree, right, Um,

7:37

So I've been just trying to motivate myself.

7:40

I like dancing, so that's fun. But like, besides

7:42

dancing, I've been trying to do that. Like my

7:44

New Year's resolutions have just been to just

7:47

kind of go with the flow. I mean, especially

7:50

now, like everything is just so open in the air

7:52

and everyone's like, oh, actually it's

7:54

going to be next month or you know, those types of

7:56

things. So I'm just trying to let

7:58

loose and I and like an

8:00

avid overthinker, so just trying to

8:03

go with the flow. And this week has actually

8:05

been pretty good with very good you

8:07

know what, Like still hard at work,

8:10

still doing everything, but at the same time

8:12

kind of just letting everything fall into place. At

8:14

least I'm trying, and you know, that's

8:17

what matters. New Year. It's been good first

8:19

week as long as if you can crush through the first

8:21

week, then yere, I call it a win. I call

8:23

the resolution a win. Yeah, what

8:27

about you? What have you been doing this week? So I'm going

8:29

to take a different spin on this question.

8:31

Okay, so I'm going out on a limb here, but

8:33

I have basically been surviving this last

8:35

week because I am moving to New York

8:37

next week, and I think sometimes we feel

8:40

a lot of pressure, especially in the new year,

8:42

to constantly be improving ourselves, and

8:45

especially if someone's dealing with anxiety

8:47

or any other mental health issues along

8:50

with big stressors, just surviving

8:53

is good enough. So that's what I've

8:55

been doing over the last week. That's

8:57

like the top that's a top tier therapist

8:59

answer right there. And also as

9:02

as amazing as the answer is, it's not

9:04

even an uncommon answer. Like we've

9:06

had a lot of different people coming on the show and they

9:08

say the thing that they've been doing is letting themselves

9:10

kind of letting themselves enjoy whatever

9:13

comes their way. Or the way

9:15

that I've been surviving this week is

9:17

how I'm improving. Is if I need a giant

9:19

milkshake every day of the week or every meal, that's

9:22

what it is. So I love that, um,

9:24

surviving in itself is improving.

9:27

Uh in my opinion, Well, let's

9:29

crack straight into it. We will be talking with

9:31

you in just a bit allegro. But Meg, it's time for

9:33

us to go one on one al

9:36

right. Like I mentioned before, you have been

9:38

very, very influential

9:41

in the space of opening up about your anxiety.

9:43

Um, it's been a couple of years since you

9:45

did that, But you also mentioned when you when

9:47

you did talk about and open up about your mental health, you

9:50

had talked about how you had it since you were little. Um,

9:52

what about the time in which you decided

9:55

to speak up about your mental

9:57

health made you want to speak about

9:59

it then? There? Yeah, I didn't

10:01

really speak fully out about

10:03

it and started like really advocating until

10:06

this quarantine because I kind

10:08

of just you know, being stuck in

10:11

your room looking at social media

10:13

all the time, like I was seeing so many people were

10:15

going through the same thing, and especially

10:17

during these times, a lot of people are more open about

10:20

it and kind of just asking for help,

10:22

kind of being like yo, like what's going

10:24

on. It's like such a scary time, you know. And

10:27

I was like wow, like all of these

10:29

people, Like if I opened up about my story,

10:31

like maybe I can help at least like one person,

10:34

and that would make me so happy. Um,

10:36

because growing up I always thought that

10:38

I was alone, Like I thought that

10:41

nobody else was going through anything

10:43

remotely like me, which was so false

10:45

because like it's not true at all. But

10:47

I just felt like I was, like

10:50

you said before, like I felt crazy. Um,

10:52

and so I none

10:54

of my friends really knew about it. Actually, I

10:57

guess I'm like a happy person. It's

10:59

not like it takes over my life, but like I do

11:01

have anxiety and panic attacks

11:03

like all the time. So um,

11:05

yeah, it's just really weird. It's like because you know, you

11:07

say you have anxiety and people are like, what now you don't

11:10

like you don't look like it, and I'm like,

11:12

well, okay, cool, thanks for

11:14

that. You know. So I never

11:17

felt like I had to talk

11:19

about it because it was something that I always should sit

11:21

on my own. And luckily, my

11:23

parents are like the best people in the world, so

11:25

they helped me so much. And my dad studied

11:28

psychology in college, so that

11:30

was pretty helpful because he was kind of

11:32

like, oh, I see what's going on here.

11:35

I get that, I know that look. Yeah.

11:38

But it was funny because growing up

11:40

my my parents really didn't think

11:42

just like all those other people. They were like, there's no

11:44

way it's even remotely

11:46

possible that she has anxiety, like she's

11:48

such a happy kid. So they it was

11:51

hard for them too because they kind

11:53

of, you know, they didn't want to believe it, and

11:55

they really didn't think anything of

11:57

it. But yeah, I'm so grateful for them.

11:59

And when I was little, I went to a therapist

12:02

as well, so I kind of at

12:04

a young age realized that, like, therapy is

12:06

so normal and completely

12:09

okay and you shouldn't be ashamed about it.

12:11

But I think that's so awesome that you got Yeah, I think

12:13

it's amazing that you you were exposed

12:15

to it so early. I think it's a big, big issue.

12:18

Unfortunately, I wasn't exposed to it that

12:20

same amount. I didn't even know that

12:22

my family members or close friends

12:25

were going to therapy until I said, oh, I just

12:27

started going to therapy, and my family members like, oh,

12:29

that's awesome. Yeah, I've been doing it for years. And I was like,

12:31

bitch, why didn't you tell me? Like what

12:34

the and so, I mean,

12:36

the other thing is too you and you had highlighted it a

12:38

bunch, which was what anxiety

12:40

looks like, right like you kind of you had mentioned

12:43

like what people will say like, well, you don't have anxiet, you don't

12:45

look like you have anxiety. You don't And especially

12:47

for somebody who gets to experience

12:49

adventure and and and their

12:52

job is to live an

12:54

exciting, always fun on your toes.

12:56

You're at awards shows, you're doing this, you're doing that.

12:59

You also, at least from my experience,

13:02

it comes up that you start feeling kind

13:04

of shameful that

13:06

you are experiencing these things. You're like, well, why do I have

13:08

anxiety when I live the coolest life, Like I'm

13:10

talking, I'm meeting celebrities, and I'm acting on movies

13:13

and and all of these awesome things are

13:15

happening, like I shouldn't, like it's

13:17

wrong for me to feel anything

13:19

bad, And so then you also start thinking

13:22

that also feeds into the I am

13:24

unique. Nobody understands what I'm going through

13:26

because nobody gets what I'm

13:28

doing. And as as you become and this isn't even

13:30

in our field, in the entertainment realm, but I think

13:33

as you become an adult and

13:35

your life starts shifting, and it's so unique

13:38

compared to your friends, Like you're going through things

13:40

and you're breaking up with people, and you're dating

13:42

specific people, and your jobs specific and everything

13:44

feels specific. You start feeling like your emotions

13:47

become specific and nothing else is

13:49

relatable. Right, No, it's so true. I

13:51

feel like a lot of times people compare

13:54

themselves to others, like without even

13:56

noticing it, and it's like they're going through so

13:58

much worse than I am, Like they're fine,

14:01

Like how how am I still you

14:03

know, struggling day to day? But no

14:05

one has the same brain as you, and like

14:07

no one is exactly like you. So it's

14:10

your life and it's your journey. So

14:12

you just have to even if there's

14:15

a party and you feel like you're going to miss out

14:17

because there's so many people there, but you know you're

14:19

just having an anxious day and it's just not a

14:21

good day for you, Like you should just look

14:23

out for yourself, like you shouldn't be worried, like oh

14:25

if I don't go like what if people? Because I used

14:28

to do that all the time. Not

14:30

the one speaking speaking exactly to that

14:33

um, And we talked about how there's

14:35

no there's no look for anxiety, Like I feel

14:37

like if people were to like make up a look in their head

14:39

of what anxiety was, it would be like I don't

14:41

know, like chattering teeth, I don't know, but like

14:44

there is no image of what anxiety

14:46

actually is, right like for me, anxiety

14:49

like to me looks exactly the damn

14:51

same as everything else in my life.

14:53

Like I've if anybody has a great

14:55

anxiety poker face, it's me, it's your

14:57

boy. Like I literally I could

14:59

be on stage like I've been, and

15:02

I'm sure you feel the same thing too as a as a performer,

15:04

like you could be on stage being like follow

15:06

your dreams, do this, and internally you're

15:08

literally like I think I might shoot myself tomorrow,

15:11

Like I don't, You have no idea, right,

15:13

And So for you specifically, just for

15:16

the listeners to know, I think it'd

15:18

be awesome to continue sharing with

15:20

people what our anxiety looks

15:22

like. So what for you, what does anxiety

15:24

look like? Or what kind of symptoms do you do you

15:26

regularly experience? Yeah,

15:29

you're so right, because a lot

15:31

of people when they think about anxiety

15:33

or panic attacks or anything

15:36

in that vein, they think, like it

15:38

looks like a panic attack, like someone's just

15:40

like melting down, Like that's what it looks like. But

15:43

literally, for me, it's like every

15:45

day, like my mindset is just kind

15:47

of it's just who I am. It's the way

15:49

my brain works, you know, and like it's

15:52

just something that you have, it's I

15:55

don't know, and there's so many different variations

15:57

in colors, and no one has the same experience.

16:00

That's why I feel like it's so easy to feel

16:02

alone. For me, it's very

16:04

strange. But heat is like a

16:06

huge trigger for me. Every time

16:08

it's like really hot out or I start sweating

16:11

or something, or sometimes I'll literally just be

16:13

walking and it's just all internal like

16:15

I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know for sure, like whatever,

16:18

and I'm smiling, but on the inside, I'm just kind

16:20

of like, you know, very tense. So it's

16:23

so hard to like pinpoint what

16:25

you're kind of anxiety looks like.

16:28

So have you had any moments where like somebody

16:30

close to you, whether family, friends, whatever,

16:32

um, Like I've had this with my family or with

16:34

my girlfriend. They've both pointed out things that

16:36

I didn't even know I would do, and

16:38

they that's how they kind of started realizing.

16:40

They're like, you know what, I can tell that when

16:43

I guess, I do a fast smirk

16:45

like like and they could tell that that's something

16:47

like it's just like a weird thing that out there, like okay,

16:50

cool, I know that something's up when you

16:52

do that. And most of the time it's that

16:54

you had mentioned heat. For me, it's silence, like

16:57

I my roommates know this for sure,

16:59

Like I'll I'm into their room randomly, just

17:01

if if if nobody's making noise if I'm

17:04

not around. And it's weird because it's the same

17:06

thing with being by myself. Either being by myself, I have the

17:08

most fun in the world, Like I can joke

17:10

and I'm laughing nobody around you

17:12

think that I'm like a like I'm literally like a lunatic,

17:15

or I'm having the most

17:18

insane like I can't

17:20

get out of bed, like spiraling

17:22

down. That's so interesting because one

17:24

of the things during this whole quarantine period,

17:26

it made me realize how I

17:30

wasn't even like acquaintances with

17:32

myself, like you know what I mean, Like

17:34

I was like sitting in my room like yo,

17:37

like I need to do so much work,

17:39

Like what I realized that I

17:41

was seeing all these people and like leaving my house

17:43

all the time just to distract myself because I'm like, yo,

17:45

I'll do it this later. And like this

17:47

really forced me to like sit

17:50

down and be like yo, I need to figure out how

17:52

I can be by myself because like it's

17:54

hard, you know, but so I totally

17:56

feel you. I would imagine that

17:58

you obviously you You've spoken, you said that

18:00

this was something you were dealing with last like last

18:03

year. You start becoming friends

18:05

with yourself? Are you becoming more acquainted with yourself?

18:07

And so I want just for listeners out there who

18:10

might be on the front side of

18:12

it and haven't necessarily crossed over to that. I'm

18:14

we're going to talk to a legra about tips and all

18:16

of that, but I can guarantee and I think you can also guarantee

18:19

that getting to that other side and being able

18:21

to sit with yourself in silence and being able

18:23

to like laugh at yourself. One

18:25

of the biggest things that I do that my therapist taught me is

18:27

anytime I have it, I ask myself, like, what am I not

18:30

loving about me right now? That's

18:32

making me think, that's making me project into

18:34

the future, And so like, I'll ask myself

18:36

that all the time, and it becomes like a joke in

18:38

my head. And I know that I don't want if

18:41

you think or talk to yourself that you're

18:43

totally normal. I think it's the most normal thing. I think

18:45

it's incredibly fun. I'll

18:47

talk to myself like I literally, my roommates

18:49

will come in and be like, Bro, who the hell are you talking to? And

18:52

I would be like, it's me. That

18:56

is so funny, Like I'll be in the shower having

18:58

full conversation. Yeah,

19:01

I called myself Bro. I'm like, Bro, what are you even thinking

19:03

right now? I didn't even know right

19:05

here? You know, I can't believe

19:07

that. I want to change. I want to

19:09

change the subject. And I promised we're going to find

19:11

ourselves circling back. Um, have you seen

19:13

the Katy Perry documentary?

19:17

Uh, I'm I'm not necessarily

19:19

one to say, but there is one

19:21

segment in the Katy Perry documentary where

19:24

she is in the middle of getting divorced and

19:27

she's bawling her eyes out and she's literally

19:29

at under the stage, so she's bawling her eyes

19:31

out right, and then she like literally goes and

19:34

she just turns it on this Katy Perry

19:36

smile. Right. I want to The

19:38

reason I brought this up is because the next question I

19:40

have for you is more specific for

19:43

you and for me as well, because

19:45

I remember when I first saw that I hadn't

19:47

I hadn't seen a therapist yet, but I had started feeling

19:49

kind of those darker

19:51

thoughts and those darker feelings that I

19:54

wasn't used to, and in my mind,

19:56

I thought, Okay, something's wrong with me. But

19:58

after seeing Katy Perry do that, I thought,

20:01

that's how you do it. You just kind of breathe twice

20:03

and then you smile and you're good to go and you can keep

20:05

working. You've been acting since

20:08

you were a kid. You're obviously very

20:10

well versed and very experienced in the industry.

20:13

How has your mental healthy anxiety,

20:15

the darker moments affected

20:18

or impacted your day to day life as an entertainer

20:20

being on stage? Maybe you're working, like you had mentioned,

20:23

you're on set and you feel like

20:25

hell, and you don't want to do anything, and

20:27

everybody hates you in your mind and all of these

20:30

things. These are things that I've dealt with specifically then,

20:32

and I don't know if you've dealt with those as well, but it

20:35

definitely can affect your day to day life, especially

20:37

in the workplace. We happen to work in the

20:39

entertainment business. How has it affected you in

20:41

your career? Yeah, man, Um,

20:44

I mean like growing up, like I would go to like

20:47

three or four auditions a week in New York,

20:49

and there's so many auditions that I would

20:51

do that I would just get

20:53

in the room and just I would just be

20:55

a mess. But you kind of have to turn it on as

20:58

best as you can. And especially when I was

21:00

younger, it was so much worse. But

21:02

now there will be moments

21:04

on set where there's a lot of pressure

21:06

because also at the same time, like whether

21:08

you're singing or acting, like there's

21:11

so many people involved just behind

21:13

the scenes. So like if you are like, yo,

21:15

like can I just take a second to cool off,

21:17

you're making all those people wait and you can

21:20

totally do that, But in my mind, I'm

21:22

putting more pressure on myself because I was like, oh no,

21:24

like I don't want them to wait

21:26

around, like they have families at home. I

21:28

just need to get through it. But there's moments on

21:30

set where I'll be in the middle of a scene and

21:32

you know, when you start kind of panicking

21:35

and like the whole room becomes a little bit more sharp.

21:37

Does that make sense? You know in movies

21:40

when like people are kind of hallucinating

21:42

and like it kind of focuses in and there they're like

21:44

breathing heavy. You know that, Yeah, and

21:46

you look around, and there's been so many

21:48

times where I thought I was gonna have to be like, yo,

21:51

I'm gonna I'm gonna dip for a sec like

21:53

I need space. But you know, for

21:56

me, like I always see it as kind

21:58

of like winds, like battles almost.

22:01

I always saw it like that when I was younger.

22:03

So performing made

22:05

me less anxious, but

22:08

it also made cause anxiety

22:10

at the same time. It's like a weird loophole.

22:12

But when I would get on stage, everything

22:15

would kind of go away. But if I

22:17

could, I would get so anxious because I

22:19

was always afraid about being

22:21

on stage and I never had stage right before,

22:23

so I was like, what is going on, Like what is

22:25

happening to me? And I would get on stage

22:27

and I'm like, yo, I just need to win

22:30

and I need to win this battle. So then when I would

22:32

come off stage, I was like, it feels so

22:34

good because not only are you getting

22:36

up in front of people and you're singing and you

22:39

have to worry about everything going on, You're also dealing

22:41

with like a whole other separate

22:43

thing. You're like fighting with yourself at the same time. So

22:45

I'm like, if I can overcome that, I

22:48

can you know, I can put my mind

22:50

to anything. You know. Well, that's the thing

22:52

too, is luckily we are very

22:55

very fortunate that we get to do what we love, right,

22:57

We're doing what we love regularly, but

23:00

it's also our job, you know, and so some days,

23:02

even though we don't necessarily

23:04

feel up to it, or or we're not

23:07

necessarily feeling our our best

23:09

selves, you still got to show up. You still got

23:11

to do shows. I've done countless shows where

23:13

it was Katie Perry ask. I've never

23:16

gotten divorced, you know, and found out about it

23:18

an hour before the show. But I've had dark

23:20

you know, like a really bad bad day,

23:23

and I'm in my mind, I'm like, well, I don't

23:25

have the option. I have to go and perform

23:27

the show. And you talk yourself into

23:29

it and you get into it. And I also

23:31

wanted to point out that it

23:34

can definitely feel I know exactly what you're talking about

23:36

when you're saying like you're you're in and out of like blurriness

23:39

and something's really sharp and you're identifying things,

23:41

and it can be that big of a thing. But

23:43

I've also noticed that sometimes I've

23:46

also noticed though that sometimes it's just it's

23:49

it could be a simple, tiny thing as well

23:51

that I've that I've luckily this last year

23:53

I've learned to understand.

23:55

You know, I've done virtual tours since we've

23:58

gotten into pandemic, and and I'll be in the

24:00

middle of it and it won't be as something big as that. It'll

24:02

just be something that's like me saying,

24:04

like, you sucked that song. That song sucked.

24:07

Everybody knows that it sucked, and it'll just be a

24:09

random, tiny little seed in my head that

24:11

you can allow to grow into this big thing

24:13

and kind of loom over you for the rest of the

24:15

show. And so at work, like

24:19

I I like, I can't keep going with

24:21

like I have to, and you think everybody

24:23

noticed it, and you're like and you and everybody's

24:25

chatting to each other, like did

24:27

you notice that Alex that Alex messed

24:30

up? And then yeah, you talked to your team afterwards and

24:32

you're like, man, I sucked right there, and they're like,

24:34

dude, nobody noticed it, and you're just like you're lying

24:36

because you make a certain percentage off, like

24:39

you can expand that and you can take the tiniest

24:41

seed like a missed note or a

24:43

flat a flat, you know, chorus

24:47

and make it this grandiose thing. And

24:50

that's not only in the music world. That can be And

24:53

if you send an email, if you're at work and you send

24:55

an email and somebody goes, oh, you actually messed

24:57

up, it's this. If you

25:00

have the wrong mentality, you could turn that into

25:02

a I'm going to get called into my boss's office right

25:04

now and get fired like it's a guarantee.

25:07

And so um. In a career

25:09

in general, it can mess up, but it also

25:11

can mess up, like in the personal life. Like I know

25:13

that I was so fortunate.

25:15

I mentioned in my story earlier that my girlfriend

25:18

was somebody who taught me, who was like who

25:20

held my hand through the process and was like, it's

25:22

okay, she's never been to therapy, but she

25:24

was full blown like I really want you to go

25:26

to therapy. Don't worry. But until

25:28

we had done that, we had gotten in fights that I can

25:30

now go back and identify were

25:33

my anxiety getting the best of me and and

25:36

overreacting to something and

25:38

then also pinpointing. I go back to my older,

25:40

older relationships and I identify,

25:43

like, oh, I didn't have trust issues. I

25:45

had really bad anxiety that I pinpointed

25:47

as trust issues, when in reality,

25:49

I don't. I don't have as many trust issues as I thought

25:52

I did. I just get really anxious when I'm by myself

25:54

that I start thinking, well, what is she doing? And

25:56

then I come up with this whole thing. It's not trust

25:59

issues. I just didn't know how to be by myself,

26:01

you know what I mean. And it was just my my

26:03

mental health. For you, how is your anxiety

26:06

uh gotten in the way of your relationships?

26:08

It could be in love life or it could just be in your friendships

26:11

as well. I mean for me, Like when

26:13

I was younger, I used to be one of those annoying,

26:15

like over texters because I just thought

26:17

that everyone was just on their

26:20

phone all the time. Yeah,

26:22

I thought everyone hated me and I was like, I'm sorry,

26:24

did I do something wrong? Like whatever? Like

26:26

I was one of those, but I

26:28

yeah I used to be. I think I'm better

26:31

now with my friends, Like I just want

26:33

to make sure that everyone's good and everyone's okay. I'm

26:35

like, if you would tell me right, like whatever. But

26:37

um, I also think on

26:40

the point that, like your girlfriend has been there supporting

26:42

you so much, like when

26:44

I was younger, like I never wanted to

26:46

open up to people. Even now, it's so hard

26:48

to talk about it with people, just because like

26:51

I always get back to a habit of being like I don't

26:53

know, I don't know, I don't know, Like I'm sorry,

26:55

I'm sorry, I don't know, Like that's all I'm able

26:57

to say, like when we talk about it,

27:00

but really opening up to people, because

27:03

I was always afraid that if I opened up to someone

27:05

that my whole life,

27:07

like they're just constantly going to be like are you okay,

27:10

like oh, do you need this? Like whatever?

27:12

And I didn't want to. I just wanted to

27:14

just like have fun and forget

27:16

about it, you know. But it's not like that at all.

27:18

Having someone there makes you so much

27:20

more comfortable, Like if you have a person

27:23

who knows what you're going through and you're out

27:25

with them in public. For me, it's almost like a

27:27

safety blanket because I know that if something goes

27:29

wrong, they'll be there and they're

27:32

gonna help you, like no matter what. Even

27:34

though I still apologize every five seconds,

27:36

but it's okay, but I still working

27:38

on that. That's a good point though. That's you you go

27:40

to therapy, right and and I want to

27:42

point this out because a lot of people haven't been to

27:44

therapy or nervous about it or or skeptical

27:47

about it. You had pointed out like I'm

27:49

still I still say sorry, like I still

27:52

have insane freakouts

27:54

and overthinking and all of this stuff. And and

27:56

so that's kind of before we take this break, I want

27:58

to point this out and and say it with you that

28:00

there's there's two sides of it. One, there's

28:02

no kind of um finish

28:05

line. I guess there's no like goal like good

28:07

job, no more anxiety, You're done, go

28:09

home, You're good for the rest of your life. Yeah, it's

28:11

not. It's not, and I

28:13

think that's a misconception. But two, it

28:16

is if you are consistently trying to, as

28:19

my manager uses the term, do the work, like

28:21

if you're consistently trying to do the work to better

28:23

it, it does get better. And

28:25

I think that that's something that I always try and

28:27

pinpoint when I talk to anybody, whether

28:29

I'm open about it, because it is still like you had mentioned,

28:32

like even though I'm open about it on social media,

28:34

sometimes my girlfriend will be like, well, how is therapy today?

28:36

And I just don't want to like I'm just like I don't like,

28:39

uh, like it was good. I don't really want to talk

28:41

too much about it, and sometimes I want to talk about it,

28:43

and it's like it is this breathing,

28:46

flowing process. Don't you agree?

28:48

I totally agree. Yeah, And especially

28:51

like me and other people that I know, like

28:54

just with opening up about it and talking

28:56

about it with your close friends. A lot of

28:58

times, I feel like I'm almost like a burden

29:00

sometimes, like I don't know, like just always

29:03

being having to talk about and being

29:05

like like I don't know, sorry, like

29:07

I'm sorry that I'm putting this on you, like this

29:09

is stupid, but it's really not. Your

29:12

close friends and the people who love you for you

29:14

will one thousand percent, and therapy,

29:17

your therapists, they're there for that. You

29:19

know, you don't have to apologize because they

29:21

want to help you, and like the people you love want

29:23

to help you. So it's still processing

29:25

in my brain that it's like yo, like you're good,

29:27

like you can talk about it and it's not a

29:29

bad thing. I just want everyone to

29:32

know that you're not because on

29:34

the other side, it's really funny when you're going through

29:36

something and then someone tells you the same exact

29:38

thing that you're going to and you're like, no, you're fine, But

29:41

I'm like, why don't I treat myself absolutely

29:45

where you're like, oh, dude, then sweat it. And

29:47

then when it's your turn, you're like, don't tell me

29:49

not to sweat it. I don't

29:51

know. Yeah,

29:54

yeah, Like you're not alone, and you're

29:56

one thousand percent no a burden. You're just human,

29:58

you know, absolutely. Um. As a last question

30:01

before we take this break, you obviously

30:03

have a following, and and because

30:05

you're open about it, I'm sure that there's a lot of people

30:08

who reach out to you about their mental

30:10

health. And unfortunately, unless

30:12

you are up thirty five hours

30:14

of the day, you can't necessarily

30:16

get back to everybody. You can't respond to everybody.

30:19

And so right now on the podcast, I would

30:21

love for you to just give your advice to anybody

30:23

who's following you or following me who's

30:25

having trouble managing their anxiety. I

30:27

think that there's a lot of people who would love to hear

30:30

um that overall advice, well,

30:33

the things that have helped me a

30:35

lot, like personally, I don't know, you know,

30:37

I don't want to speak for everyone, but things

30:40

that have really helped me, And like my

30:42

journey is like

30:44

writing it down, like writing down my

30:46

thoughts or even I mean I speak to myself

30:48

all the time and saying it out loud, because sometimes

30:51

I'll start spiraling. And when

30:53

I say it out loud or I speak to somebody,

30:55

or I write it down and I look at it

30:58

and I really like hear it, I'm like, oh,

31:00

like why was I

31:02

thinking? Like that actually is

31:04

like ridiculous, Like what am I doing? You

31:06

know? So I kind of just put it all on

31:08

paper and it's not as scrambled, I guess, and then

31:10

you kind of realized like oh, and also

31:13

for me, even though I don't like exercising,

31:15

it's like the worst. But for me,

31:18

I just do like dance parties in my room

31:20

something to just get the heart going

31:23

and you kind of just like, you know, get

31:25

those endorphins running and kind of get all

31:27

the negative energy out. It makes me feel so much

31:29

better. But you know, just sitting in

31:31

your room all day, like for me at

31:33

least, like that's when I start to overthink

31:36

things and all that stuff. So I've

31:39

never I've never written them out, but I'm definitely gonna do that

31:41

because that sounds like a great idea because you have moments

31:43

of this like kind of almost

31:46

it's not necessarily you and

31:48

then you go back and you read them and you're like, oh,

31:50

yeah, that's that. None of those things are valid. It

31:52

was just this. Or you could find something where

31:54

you're like, oh, that is a valid fear, like let's

31:56

figure out why we feel like that, you know exactly.

31:59

And then when you look

32:02

back, you can see all of your progress

32:04

and you can see and or if you

32:06

run into the same problem over and over and

32:08

you keep going back, you're like, yo, what

32:11

I needed. I gotta figure out what this

32:13

is. Yeah, because it keeps coming back.

32:15

So that's perfect. Well, we're

32:17

gonna take a quick break, but Meg, thank you so much

32:19

one for being here, but more importantly

32:22

for being and being another influence who

32:24

is open to discussing mental

32:27

health and discussing firsthand what

32:29

it's like. I think it's it's something that

32:31

we definitely need more of and and I'm

32:33

excited for us to talk altogether

32:35

at the last segment on more

32:38

of this. But we'll be right back. All

32:41

right, we are back. This is let's get into it,

32:43

and we are now talking with Allegra cast

32:46

In's UM, if you miss the intro, you

32:48

gotta go back and listen to it. Uh, you

32:50

are our expert today on the subject of

32:52

anxiety. Um, you're also a therapist

32:55

and an O c D advocate. Tell

32:58

us a little bit before we get into some questions. I just want

33:00

to know why you do what you do and

33:02

how you kind of came into this,

33:05

uh this community on Instagram as well.

33:07

Yeah, it's definitely a very specific niche.

33:10

And when I was growing up,

33:12

I dealt with a ton of mental health symptoms

33:14

that I just didn't have words for. Like, my

33:16

family didn't go to therapy, we didn't

33:19

talk about mental health. Looking back,

33:22

I struggled with binge eating and anxiety

33:25

and panic attacks that

33:27

moved into anorexia when

33:30

I was nineteen, But I just didn't

33:32

have the language for any of it. I didn't

33:34

really understand that therapy existed and

33:36

that it was something that could help me. But

33:39

the real thing that kind of changed the course

33:41

of my life was a little bit later

33:44

on. I can remember the exact

33:46

day that it happened. I was nineteen

33:48

and I was at work one day and I had this intrusive

33:51

thought pop into my mind, and

33:53

it was the most terrifying thought I

33:55

could ever think in my entire

33:57

life. And from that point forward,

34:00

that thought just started replaying in my brain all

34:02

day long. And for a year

34:05

and a half, I had no idea what it was that

34:07

I was struggling with, but eventually

34:09

found out that it was obsessive compulsive

34:11

disorder. But my struggle

34:13

with o c D and me getting help

34:15

in therapy eventually changed

34:18

my entire life, and it changed what I wanted

34:20

to do with my life. You know, the particular

34:23

theme of o c D that I have is

34:25

kind of stigmatized and a

34:28

lot of people don't understand it. So

34:31

I wanted to be that person that can

34:33

help others in the same way that I was

34:35

helped, because it honestly saved my life,

34:37

Like I do not know that I would be here if I didn't

34:39

access help. Wow, that

34:42

is I mean. I'm just doing a side

34:44

note. We need to do a whole episode on o c D because

34:46

we have to. We we got to do

34:49

it. So let's let's set that up, Catherine.

34:51

Um. But let's get back since we

34:53

since we have now set it in stone, we're going to do

34:55

an Um.

34:57

You are a therapist and your job

34:59

is into only accept patients with a

35:02

specific, you know problem like you

35:04

have. Anybody comes in and whoever walks

35:06

through that door tells you what they're going through, and it's your job

35:08

to really identify it. So you've probably, I

35:10

would assume, have seen everything

35:12

from A to Z across the spectrum.

35:15

Yeah, I've seemed quite a few things, for sure.

35:17

So what in your mind makes anxiety

35:21

kind of different or specific or what

35:24

about anxiety really pops out to you versus

35:27

everything else that people have come to you with and all

35:29

the other mental illnesses and mental

35:31

health disorders. So this is such a

35:33

good question and it's complex, but I'm going to

35:35

break it down kind of in specific parts. So

35:38

anxiety is something that everybody

35:40

experiences to some degree, Like

35:42

we all have a little bit of anxiety

35:44

because essentially our brains are wired

35:47

in that way. You know you hear about

35:49

like think back to Caveman times when

35:51

that fight flight or freeze kicked

35:53

in and it would actually save people.

35:56

So anxiety does have kind of an evolutionary

35:59

like vale you or benefit because

36:02

it can help keep us alive kind

36:04

of like earlier you said mandatory anxiety.

36:06

You know, sometimes we do feel anxious

36:09

and there is danger in front of us. So

36:11

we all experience anxiety to some degree,

36:14

but people with diagnosable anxiety

36:17

disorders, the anxiety

36:19

is excessive, like the amount of time

36:21

spent worrying about something is

36:24

excessive, and it impairs their functioning.

36:27

So you might see like somebody getting

36:30

a lack of sleep, Um,

36:32

they might be. I

36:34

mean, there are so many different things like rapid

36:37

heart rates, tension like

36:39

you were talking about Meg, and

36:42

these things are persistent. It's not

36:44

just a mild anxiety that passes.

36:46

It really impairs someone's functioning.

36:49

And with anxiety, essentially,

36:51

what it is is our brain is trying

36:54

to alert us of danger.

36:57

However, often with anxiety disorder,

37:00

danger actually isn't present, so

37:03

our brain is firing that like fight

37:05

flight or freeze response when danger

37:07

isn't in front of us. We're overestimating

37:10

danger that's in front of us. That

37:13

makes so much sense like that, Like honestly,

37:15

like, because like you mentioned,

37:18

on one hand, you have something,

37:20

let's say on the smallest level, where

37:22

like I'll make a joke to my roommate and if he

37:25

doesn't laugh at that joke, I will

37:27

now continue that idea of he

37:29

just didn't think a joke was funny too, Well, he doesn't

37:31

think I'm funny, And if he doesn't think I'm funny, then he probably doesn't

37:33

like me that much. If he doesn't like me that much, then why is he hanging out

37:35

with me? Why is he living in my house? Is it because

37:37

of this? Is because of that? Doesn't because of this? And

37:39

it just like rapid fires

37:42

up and Meg's pointing at her face because she's

37:44

just like one it. We're just two peas in

37:46

a pot. At this point, other than when

37:48

my therapist had brought it up to me, I had never thought

37:51

about anxiety being in

37:53

the mental health issue. Portion

37:56

of it is making something up

37:58

that isn't actually or exaggerating

38:01

something to the point where it's not actually that bad.

38:04

That's exactly it, and what you and

38:06

Meg have talked about. It's called catastrophizing,

38:09

which essentially means, like our brains,

38:11

especially when we're anxious, take us to the worst

38:14

possible case scenario when there's

38:16

not really evidence that that's going to happen,

38:18

you know, like, oh my gosh, she doesn't think I'm funny like

38:20

you were saying. Now he wants to move out. Now

38:23

he hates me. Our brain just keeps

38:25

going there, and we also feed

38:27

into that cycle of anxiety, and

38:29

that's how those thoughts continue

38:32

to grow. Catastrophizing

38:34

is our word. That's

38:36

a tongue twist right there. I had to think about how

38:39

to say that that in anticipatory. Catastrophizing

38:41

an anticipatory. So

38:45

I've heard people say anxiety attack. I've

38:47

heard people say panic attack. Is

38:49

there a difference between the two, And if there is a difference

38:52

between the two, how do you know which one it is?

38:54

Because I don't even know if there is a difference. That's

38:56

such a good question. So people often use

38:58

panic attack and anxiety attack

39:00

interchangeably, But there's not

39:03

really such thing as an anxiety attack.

39:05

When people say that, I'm not sure exactly

39:08

what it is that they mean. Do you mean

39:10

that you are experiencing racing thoughts?

39:13

Are you feeling really anxious in the present

39:15

moment? Like that is kind of

39:17

up to like what the person is experiencing,

39:20

Whereas a panic attack is something

39:22

that as therapists like

39:24

that is panic disorder is something that can be

39:27

diagnosed, and panic

39:29

disorder is that's when someone has multiple

39:31

panic attacks. So that's kind of taking it a step

39:33

further, but a panic attack is

39:35

really a sudden kind of you

39:38

get a sudden surge of intense

39:40

fear and discomfort that

39:43

is accompanied by certain symptoms.

39:46

Like so for a panic attack to be diagnosable,

39:48

there you have to meet I think it's four or five

39:50

different symptoms off of a big list,

39:53

and that includes things like de realization

39:56

another therapist word that you can

39:58

google, but that's what you we're describing meg

40:01

essentially, like when you're on set and kind

40:03

of everything like feels a little

40:05

bit out of focus, and it feels

40:07

like there's kind of like a bubble between you and

40:09

other people. That is the

40:12

realization. Or you might

40:14

feel like you are dying. Your heart

40:16

is racing, it feels like someone's sitting on

40:18

your chest and you think I'm about to die.

40:21

You might think, you know, obviously

40:23

this is not necessarily politically

40:26

correct, but you might feel like you're going crazy

40:28

quote unquote, or like you're

40:30

gonna snap all of a sudden, And

40:33

that's what makes up a panic attack. It's a

40:35

sudden surge of symptoms that

40:37

will probably peak within a few minutes,

40:40

whereas anxiety might be something that

40:42

you experience like throughout a period of

40:44

time. It might be kind of like an underlying anxiety

40:47

that you feel all of the time.

40:49

A panic attack, you will know it's kind

40:51

of that like sudden onset of symptoms.

40:55

So so then not to have therapy

40:57

while we're on this podcast, but that's

41:00

okay. So then when you have anxiety,

41:02

right and you're spiraling, like we had mentioned this, like,

41:04

well, we'll use Dylan as an example because he's my

41:06

best friend. He and I know that he loves me no matter

41:09

what, but like you have that thought of like he

41:11

didn't think the jokes one, he didn't think I was funny, and this is

41:13

dad, And now if he doesn't like me, then maybe nobody

41:15

likes me. If nobody likes me, then I don't really have value. And you

41:17

have this moment and that thought process can happen

41:20

like you, like you'd kind of mentioned, like it

41:22

could be a two minute you could go through

41:24

the full whole thing in a thirty second

41:26

span, really set let it sit,

41:28

and then have this darkness. Is that

41:31

not considered a panic attack or is that a different

41:33

type of panic attack or is that something completely

41:35

other? Realm, it sounds like an

41:37

anxiety spiral, but it would really

41:39

depend on what the symptoms, like,

41:42

what the symptoms are that the person is experiencing.

41:44

So if that's accompanied by de realization,

41:47

a rasing heart, feeling like you're

41:49

going to die, it could be a panic attack.

41:52

So anxiety can lead to a panic

41:54

attack. We can be anxious about

41:57

something and then we go into a

41:59

full blown panic attack, So you can

42:01

have both. This is so

42:03

import This is honestly, I like, I'm glad

42:05

that people are listening to this, but this is really

42:07

just kind of me time I'm enjoying because

42:10

that's this is so informative, Like you learned so

42:12

much where you can be this is firsthand. I go to

42:15

therapy every other week, and

42:18

there's some things that you'll still be able to learn,

42:20

Like you're never done learning, you know you're stop learning.

42:22

Um, okay, so let's let's now

42:25

that we've gone through that. I'm glad that we talked

42:27

that out. I feel like, when I'm

42:29

not doing the work, I'm going to continue

42:31

using that term because that's me like going

42:33

to therapy, writing down like my

42:35

random moments that I have that I share with my therapist

42:38

later, or you know, asking

42:40

myself the questions and doing all the exercises

42:42

that my therapist has taught me to do. I feel

42:44

like when I'm not doing those things, I can tell

42:46

because the same negative thoughts kind of keep

42:48

coming back. It's like it's kind of like a spend cycle

42:51

of these negative thoughts that are just back to back

42:53

to back to back. Um, why

42:55

does it happen? And what can we do? I

42:58

love this question. I wish I could draw it because

43:00

there's kind of like an anxious cycle. But I'll

43:02

explain it to the best of my ability. So,

43:05

with anxiety, like I said earlier, the brain

43:08

is trying to alert us of possible

43:10

danger or risk, but it glitches

43:13

sometimes. So your brain

43:15

is coming up with all of these what ifs,

43:17

what if this happens, what if that happens?

43:19

Because it's ultimately trying to protect you.

43:22

It's just on overdrive. It's overprotective,

43:25

so it feeds you with those like quote unquote

43:28

negative thoughts. A little piece

43:30

of information is thoughts actually

43:32

aren't positive or negative, and they're not good

43:34

or bad. They're just thoughts.

43:37

So that's something a lot of people think,

43:39

Oh, I have such negative thoughts or I have all

43:41

of these bad thoughts. You're just having

43:43

thoughts. So the brain feeds

43:45

you with those thoughts and it makes you really

43:47

anxious. We tend

43:50

to feed into that cycle, and

43:52

that's what exacerbates those thoughts

43:54

and it continues to play them on loop.

43:57

So what I mean is, if you have this thought he

44:00

didn't laugh, he must not think I'm funny,

44:02

and it makes you anxious, you

44:04

are probably doing something about

44:07

that thought. You're probably ruminating to some

44:09

degree, which means you are continuously

44:11

thinking about that thought. Wait, does he

44:14

really think I'm funny? What if he doesn't? What would

44:16

that mean for me? Like, you are engaging

44:18

with it, and that engagement

44:20

keeps those thoughts going. It fuels

44:23

that cycle. I'm not even I'm not even

44:25

engaging. I'm marrying that ship.

44:27

I'm like having four kids with its

44:32

yes, exactly. So we pay

44:34

so much attention to these anxious

44:36

thoughts, and when we do that, we're

44:38

telling our brains, yes, this actually

44:41

is dangerous. Pay attention to this when

44:43

it's not. So we continue to get

44:45

more of those thoughts. And the work

44:48

is to just let the thoughts that pop in

44:50

be there, let them loop if they

44:52

will. We don't need to engage with

44:54

them. We don't need to pay attention to them.

44:57

And that's mindfulness work, and that's why

44:59

a lot of I do with clients is mindfulness

45:01

skills training. You let

45:03

thoughts be there, you don't fight with them,

45:05

because when we fight with thoughts and feelings, they

45:08

stick around. I don't know if you've

45:10

ever noticed, but when you're anxious and you start to

45:12

fight with it, oh my god, why am I anxious? This

45:14

is awful. You're going to be more anxious.

45:17

I love that you brought that up. Yeah, the work

45:19

is to sit with it and to tolerate it. And I

45:21

always tell clients like, I cannot get rid

45:23

of your anxiety, but I can teach

45:25

you tools to better manage your anxiety

45:28

and it's not going to impact your life as much.

45:31

So thoughts and feelings, Yeah,

45:33

we want to sit with them, and we get to choose

45:36

is this helpful or not? To engage

45:38

with those anxious thoughts that y'all

45:40

are getting not helpful to pay attention

45:42

to. So I'm really glad that you

45:44

brought that up, mainly because before I started

45:46

actually doing the work, I was

45:48

so big on fighting my thoughts

45:50

and like I mentioned with Meg, like you

45:53

shouldn't you get to travel

45:55

around the world and be on stage

45:57

and do what you love. Like you don't. You

46:00

are ungrateful if you have these thoughts and you don't

46:02

get to really sit with them. Um and then once

46:04

you learn you sit with them and you're like, oh,

46:06

this is like Oh that's like you can name them if

46:08

you want. Oh that's Todd. Todd

46:11

is just chilling for a bit, even a second. He

46:13

just needs to come and say what's up. Those

46:15

thoughts are so when they're when they're just kind of those

46:17

here and their thoughts, you know, like, oh,

46:20

this person didn't think that joke was funny, and it's like some

46:22

people don't think things are funny. I don't think a lot of things

46:24

are funny. So we'll just kind of let him chill, and when

46:26

he goes, he'll go. I would

46:29

like to step before we kind of come

46:31

out of it and we talk a little bit more positively.

46:33

I do want to talk about because it's a very real thing.

46:37

Let's call him the scary thoughts, the

46:40

more taboo thoughts that we don't like.

46:42

I don't even like saying some of the thoughts that I've

46:44

had, and I know you've referred to them as taboo thoughts

46:46

before. Um, what

46:48

about those you know what? Like, honestly,

46:51

this is a this is me asking as

46:53

extra free therapy. This is such a

46:55

great question. Every single person

46:58

on this planet has intrusive to us.

47:00

Okay, people with o c

47:02

D get an influx

47:04

of intrusive thoughts like rapidly

47:06

that are often of a taboo nature. And

47:09

that's what differentiates o c D

47:11

from generalized anxiety disorder, because

47:14

with generalized anxiety people get

47:16

intrusive thoughts as well, but it's

47:18

more about real life concerns

47:21

finances and upcoming performance

47:24

work friendships, Whereas

47:26

people with o c D have intrusive

47:28

thoughts that pop in that are very disturbing

47:31

and very irrational. They're unrealistic,

47:35

and as a therapist, like what

47:37

I would say is their ego tos tonic, which

47:40

means they're so opposite to what

47:42

the person like knows of themselves.

47:45

So for me, for instance, when I was nineteen, I

47:47

started getting unwanted, sexual

47:50

intrusive thoughts about the last people

47:52

I would ever want to have those thoughts about. It was

47:54

so horrifying and uncomfortable, and

47:57

then I performed compulsions to try to figure

47:59

out I was having these thoughts and

48:01

to prevent like something bad from happening

48:04

because they were so scary to me. So

48:06

yeah, we all have the occasional like sexual

48:08

intrusive thought or harm intrusive thought,

48:11

like what if I just threw myself in front of the subway,

48:13

But for people with o c D, it's

48:15

on loop all day long. Imagine

48:18

that horrible thought, like you know,

48:20

what if I just stabbed my partner in her sleep?

48:22

People with O c D experience that NonStop

48:25

popping in, popping in, popping in. So

48:28

that's kind of where the more like taboo intrusive

48:30

thoughts would become a diagnosis. We

48:33

need to have a whole episode about o c D

48:35

tomorrow, like we like we got a sense, Katherine,

48:38

because there's so much to unpack, and I don't want

48:40

to at all pass that off

48:42

and and kind of keep moving forward. So I

48:45

do want to preface this change

48:47

of subjects as a weird

48:49

absolutely coming back to that, because we need to

48:51

figure out there's a whole lot to unpack. And

48:53

I think, like you had mentioned, you had said that

48:55

that's an O c D thought, and in my mind, like

48:57

in my wildly uneducated,

49:00

in this realm mind, I thought O c D

49:02

was just like keeping your room clean and

49:04

like you know, like that's like that's kind of the stigma

49:07

around it. Uh. And so absolutely

49:09

are having another episode UM with

49:11

you. If you will have us UM about

49:13

this exact thing, we'll get a little more positive

49:16

um. And that positivity is that,

49:18

like I am glad that therapy is

49:20

now starting to become more of a

49:23

kind of cool not cool thing,

49:25

but like a very like normal thing. People are like, oh, yeah,

49:27

I got therapy, and nobody's like, oh

49:30

are you good. Like people are just like, oh I got therapy.

49:32

There like, oh that's sick. I'm glad you're doing that. I could probably

49:34

use that. That's really like the biggest response to

49:36

anybody from anybody who I talked

49:39

to who doesn't go to therapy. The most

49:41

common response now, and I love it is like

49:43

people are like, oh, dope, I should probably go to

49:45

therapy, and then I respond back with like, you

49:47

absolutely should. Everybody should. It's great.

49:50

I think Channing Tatum was like

49:52

the first one who was like, yeah,

49:54

go to therapy. Everybody should go to therapy. I remember watching

49:56

this to this Twitter video. I think I've actually brought

49:58

it up on this show before. But I'm glad

50:01

that it's being more widely accepted. But

50:03

I think now you're at this new because before

50:05

it was like this big stigma right of like if you

50:07

go to therapy you're weak, or if you go to therapy

50:09

you're psychotic, or or whatever

50:12

have you. Now there's this kind

50:14

of new stigma. I'm very fortunate

50:16

that my therapist didn't believe that

50:18

I need to take medications to kind of

50:20

handle my mental health issues.

50:23

But there are a lot of people who do get prescribed

50:26

medications for mental health, and there's also

50:28

a lot of people and there's a huge stigma

50:31

around that medication, whether you actually

50:33

need it, whether it's good for you, whether it's bad

50:35

for you. Um, can you speak to that

50:37

and your thoughts on on maybe why

50:39

it is and if you think that there should be a stigma?

50:42

Oh yeah, people are so misinformed

50:45

about medication, and I think a

50:48

lot of it comes from like the stigma surrounding

50:50

mental health. And when people

50:52

think about taking medication, one

50:55

of the most common things I hear is it's

50:57

weak. You don't need it. You should just

50:59

be able to do the work and get

51:02

through. It's like it's a weakness. And

51:04

the reality is that people have brains

51:06

that are wired differently. You know, me

51:09

with O c D, my brain is wired very

51:11

differently than someone without O c D, which

51:14

means I need medication to get

51:16

my brain kind of to a more quote unquote

51:19

normal level. And it's interesting

51:21

because we would never look at someone who has

51:23

cancer who's getting chemotherapy and say

51:25

you're weak, you don't need that, or

51:28

somebody who is diabetic and

51:30

takes insulin. We don't do that, but

51:32

we do that with psychiatric medication.

51:35

And that's because of stigma. And

51:37

I also think that it's like when

51:40

people say, oh, it's weak, or oh

51:42

you don't need it, it's just the easy way out.

51:44

It comes from people being misinformed

51:47

because taking medication is often a very

51:49

complex and difficult decision

51:51

for people. Medication can

51:54

affect your sex life. Like I often

51:56

say to clients, you might have to choose between

51:58

your sex life or your sanity, and that's really

52:00

difficult, and it

52:02

can impact I mean, you might have side effects from

52:04

the medication, so it's not an

52:07

easy decision to make. In

52:09

addition to like, it is still stigmatized

52:12

sadly, which just it's awful because

52:14

it can save lives. You know what, saved my life.

52:17

It helps so many of my clients,

52:19

and I hope that we can continue

52:22

to destigmatize it because it's very

52:24

necessary for a lot of people. M

52:27

I love that. I mean, I'm gonna go back

52:29

to what one of my one of my really good friends are on

52:32

who's been on this show says, and he's like, look,

52:34

when your mouth hurts, you go to the dentist. He

52:36

tells you that your wisdom teeth

52:38

coming in. He takes the wisdom teeth out, and then he says, hey,

52:40

you gotta take this vicating or else your mouth

52:42

is really going to hurt and you don't beat an

52:44

eye. Right. But then when you go when you're having

52:46

mental health issues, what you're supposed to do

52:49

is you go to a doctor who can help you with that, right

52:51

the same way that you go to a doctor for your arms broken

52:53

or you're getting your wisdom teeth out, and then they'll tell

52:55

you what you gotta do. And and it is

52:57

it is pretty interesting that we mindlessly

53:00

say yes to everything else, but when it comes

53:02

to our own brains, we're pretty picky

53:05

on that. Yeah, yeah, it's it's

53:07

quite interesting. But I do want to as

53:09

I always like to do finish it on a very high

53:11

note um and have somebody Meg

53:13

and I have both attested to when you do the

53:15

work and you and you're open about it

53:17

and you can talk about it and you can deal with

53:19

it regularly, you let those thoughts sit with you,

53:22

it does get better. And so having two

53:24

people who aren't therapists say it, I would love to

53:26

also have you jump in on your first hand

53:28

experience of helping people who get it and

53:30

the amount of people who come in

53:33

and it gets better versus the amount of people

53:35

who and I can't imagine come into therapy

53:37

do all of the work and it gets somehow

53:40

worse. You know, I think I think it's more likely

53:42

that it gets much better. That's exactly

53:45

it. And I love that you say do the work because

53:47

that is the exact pace that I use with my clients.

53:49

You have to do the work to get better, so

53:52

you're on top of that. And if

53:54

a client is doing the work, they more often

53:57

than not get better. There are going to be clients

53:59

who have stay your brains where they have more

54:01

severe cases, and it might not be as simple

54:03

as just do the work. You know, sometimes

54:06

certain therapies don't work on

54:08

specific people. But if you can

54:10

access therapy, I want to preface that because

54:12

I know that some people can't. If you

54:14

can access therapy and you do the

54:16

work, it can get I mean,

54:19

night and day. I see so many of

54:21

my clients and I witnessed in my own therapy

54:24

journey. If you do the work, your

54:26

life can significantly change and you

54:28

can live a really meaningful, beautiful

54:30

life. With anxiety or any

54:32

other mental health condition. There

54:35

is hope. It is not hopeless.

54:37

And you are not weird. You are not crazy.

54:40

You are just a human being who has a brain,

54:42

and sometimes that means we struggle.

54:46

I love that. That's an incredible

54:48

place to take a break. But when

54:50

we come back, Meg's coming back in with us, and we're

54:53

gonna be talking about this mandatory anxiety

54:55

that you're telling us about. So don't go anywhere. We

54:59

are back. This is let's get into it, and

55:01

we are talking about mandatory anxiety.

55:03

I got Meg, I got allegro We are here,

55:06

so you had actually brought it up allegra Um

55:08

in our segment where you said mandatory

55:10

anxiety. Our brains are actually wired to

55:13

have anxiety. To make sure, my

55:16

therapist says risk analysis, that's what our brains

55:18

do. They do risk analysis across the board. Like it's always

55:20

like, okay, if I jump off, if you're on a diving

55:22

board and you're going into a pool, you okay, the pool

55:24

is deep enough, right, Okay, the pools deep enough, and you do

55:26

this in like a micro second or whatever,

55:29

like this is ready to go. We can do this. Whereas

55:31

if you're looking down and you see rocks, uh,

55:34

most of the time, I'd like to imagine a

55:37

predominant amount of the time you're

55:39

looking down, you're like, okay, don't do that. That's bad

55:41

idea. Risk analysis, big risk, big

55:43

risk. It seems like today's world

55:45

is designed for everybody

55:47

to get anxious. I mean, you have media everywhere.

55:50

You have everything on level ten

55:52

saturation in the in the sense of

55:54

like how important and big

55:57

and must know everything is. You

55:59

got dooming gloom news stories, you have

56:02

clickbait on social media, everything

56:04

about the world ending. It's absolute

56:07

sensory overload. How

56:09

do we balance ourselves? That's

56:11

a good question. I think that there are so

56:13

many ways to answer this. But two

56:16

things that I always talk to clients about

56:18

are like sitting with our feelings

56:21

but not necessarily letting our feelings

56:23

make decisions for us. So

56:26

letting it be okay that you're anxious,

56:28

but moving towards your values. So

56:30

living a very values based life even

56:33

if you have anxiety, because

56:35

anxiety can often keep us from living

56:38

the life that we want. It can impact our

56:40

decision making, our relationships,

56:43

I mean really anything. So the

56:46

work is okay. If I'm feeling anxious, I'm

56:48

gonna sit with it. I'm going to tolerate

56:50

it, but I'm still going to live the life that i

56:52

want to live. Values

56:54

based living is so so big with anxiety

56:57

disorders. Wow, that's

56:59

a that's such an interesting way to look

57:01

at it. It reminds me of what you had

57:03

said in our segment before about like living with

57:05

it, like letting those thoughts sit and be like, oh,

57:07

yeah, hey, this is my friend anxiety. He's

57:09

just gonna hang out for Bai'll probably leaven a little bit

57:11

later, just like let him. You know. It's

57:14

it's really to me like that visualization has

57:16

been just it's so clear and it's so

57:19

helpful to me to really kind of put

57:21

it almost putting a face on it and being like,

57:23

hey, this is anxiety.

57:25

You can call him ang for sure. I don't know, and

57:28

uh, and and it's

57:30

gonna live here for a little bit, or it's gonna stay over

57:32

sometimes he sleeps over. At the end of the day,

57:34

he always leaves, and he always You're always

57:37

fine afterwards. Flipping that around,

57:39

though, having anxiety, living with anxiety,

57:42

it sucks a lot of the time, But then there's also like some

57:44

pretty good positives, Like I think for

57:46

me, like I think that having that anxiety

57:49

of of always wondering what other people are

57:51

thinking, it does help my compassion a lot.

57:54

It makes me a very empathetic person.

57:56

I think that it really helps me cater

57:59

to the needs of people who are

58:01

very important to me. I was raised

58:03

with the golden rule of treat others how you want to be

58:05

treated. And because my brain overthinks

58:07

things, and I would wish people would consistently give

58:10

me assurance. I give other people assurance. And

58:12

I've been told that that's something that's very very

58:15

positive about me or helpful in my

58:17

relationships and my friendships and my daily

58:20

dealings. Meg, what about you? What what about

58:22

your anxiety? Have you either

58:25

identified or made a

58:27

positive to you? Um, I totally

58:29

agree with you. I think you know, really

58:32

putting others. First, it's help my like empathy

58:34

a lot, going back to the like

58:37

just letting anxiety just kind of like

58:39

sit there. I feel like days

58:41

where I get a lot of sleep, I

58:44

can really I mean I feel like getting a

58:46

lot of sleep for anything, for anyone, like

58:48

no matter what you're going through, is definitely really

58:50

helpful. And I also know that mental

58:53

disorders can also, like you know, cause

58:55

lack of sleep, but getting as much sleep

58:57

as possible at least just rest. Like I noticed

58:59

those days because some days and

59:02

will come knocking at my door and I'll be like, by

59:05

like leave and then I'm like, yo,

59:07

that was easy, Like I just I

59:10

like kicked him, like let's go. And then

59:12

some days I it's harder for me. And

59:14

I noticed those days are when

59:16

I'm really tired because my body

59:18

is kind of at like a low level already, so

59:20

then when ang comes knocking, I don't have the defense

59:23

mechanism to be like you like get

59:25

out. And then also when I'm

59:27

on social media a lot too, I think, right

59:30

that definitely doesn't help. Social media is amazing,

59:33

but like monitoring it is definitely

59:35

really helpful. But um yeah, I think

59:37

it's helped my empathy a lot, maybe

59:39

stronger as a person for sure. Boom,

59:42

there you go, there you go. Yeah.

59:44

I think in general, like you had mentioned though, getting

59:46

enough sleep is really good to help. You've also talked

59:48

about like breathing techniques, You've talked about

59:51

physically relaxing your muscles. There's

59:54

so many ways. And and I want to point

59:56

out something that you had said earlier, which was like exercise

59:59

and go out and exercise was one of your bits of advice.

1:00:01

I feel like there's some kind of actual

1:00:03

science behind exercising and

1:00:06

and like either relaxing your thoughts or

1:00:09

bringing happiness in your body aleg Or

1:00:11

do you haven't Is there any like factual statistics

1:00:13

or anything that like actually makes exercising

1:00:16

a great way to combat any mental illness,

1:00:18

but specifically like negative thoughts or

1:00:20

anxiety. Yeah, So

1:00:22

typically when people are anxious, you kind

1:00:24

of feel a little bit restless, and you feel like there's

1:00:26

a lot of tension, and so physical

1:00:29

exercise can kind of help alleviate

1:00:31

some of that. Also, when we

1:00:33

exercise, it sends off endorphins,

1:00:36

and those endorphins, like those chemicals

1:00:39

help us feel better essentially,

1:00:41

like we feel a little bit happier so

1:00:44

that is kind of like the science behind exercise

1:00:46

would be the endorphins, possibly

1:00:49

serotonin. I'm not like an expert on

1:00:51

this, but that would

1:00:53

be why people typically feel better after

1:00:55

exercising. Look at

1:00:57

that. See you, guys, it's not just abs

1:00:59

you're fighting for. You're fighting for a mental

1:01:02

health. Absolutely, mental abs.

1:01:04

That's what we're talking about. We're talking about mental

1:01:07

abs right here, guys. To

1:01:09

fight off a you know, to

1:01:11

fight off that's gonna just live forever.

1:01:14

Now his name is saying he's

1:01:16

kind of a shitty house guest, but

1:01:18

he always he always leaves if

1:01:20

you give him the cold shoulder. So

1:01:23

as three people here who have

1:01:25

been open about their mental health issues UM

1:01:28

and have been open, and we're learning now

1:01:30

what panic attacks actually are. Are

1:01:33

there any ways that you guys have learned

1:01:35

um specifically for yourselves, just in case there's a listener

1:01:38

out there who hasn't found their way to ward

1:01:40

off a panic attack or maybe even anxiety

1:01:42

spiral, or even just dark thoughts in general.

1:01:45

Just any any practices you do to set

1:01:47

your mind at ease if you're having those cyclical thoughts.

1:01:50

Very very specific to me, I

1:01:52

always listened to Bob Marley when

1:01:55

specifically waiting in vain, it's always

1:01:58

cued up. Like sometimes like

1:02:00

my friends will like I'll

1:02:02

be in the room and I'll just hear the song

1:02:04

in the distance and I'm like, ah, like,

1:02:07

you know, so it really

1:02:09

helps. I don't know why. It's just I mean, Bob

1:02:12

Marley is such a calming it you know,

1:02:14

makes me feel like I'm at the beach, and

1:02:17

all of his songs are almost like, you know,

1:02:19

don't worry, everything's gonna work out, like

1:02:21

you're good. So just hearing those thoughts

1:02:23

all the time, it's just like, you know, helps

1:02:26

me get through it and it kind of prevents that.

1:02:28

And also breathing. Um,

1:02:30

you know, it's very silly to say,

1:02:33

but when you're going through it, sometimes you forget

1:02:35

to breathe. It's like kind of like

1:02:37

one of the simple things to do, but you know,

1:02:39

you don't realize that you're catching your breath like if you it

1:02:42

helps so much like when people

1:02:44

are like, yo, just breathe and you take like a

1:02:46

large inhale and exhale like it. Man

1:02:49

does wonders. I

1:02:52

don't know why. This is a total side

1:02:54

note. Um. The Zoom audio quality

1:02:56

was so bad that at first I genuinely

1:02:58

thought you said breathing like

1:03:01

b R E D I N G. And then in my

1:03:03

mind I said, there's no way she said breeding.

1:03:05

She meant reading, like reading a book.

1:03:08

And then as you continue talking, I heard I

1:03:10

realized you said breathing, and I

1:03:12

was like, oh, so for the first

1:03:14

half of your statement, I was genuinely

1:03:17

confused by what you do to

1:03:19

stay to stay just positive and happy.

1:03:22

Yeah, just

1:03:25

breed, just go for it. Have a child, um

1:03:28

allegra, what about you? And

1:03:30

you can also include things that you have um

1:03:32

anything that you either go through on a daily basis

1:03:35

that you help ward off your negative

1:03:37

thoughts or your spirals, or your attacks,

1:03:39

or anything that you tell your clients. Yeah,

1:03:42

acceptance is a big word that I use

1:03:44

with clients. And acceptance doesn't

1:03:46

mean that we like what we're experiencing.

1:03:49

It doesn't mean that we agree with what we're experiencing,

1:03:52

but it means that we are going to allow

1:03:54

it. So with panic attacks,

1:03:56

anxiety, intrusive thoughts,

1:03:59

excepted is huge. Letting

1:04:01

it happen, letting it be there, and

1:04:04

existing with it because typically

1:04:06

when people are panicking, they start to fight

1:04:08

with it because it's so scary.

1:04:10

They feel like they're dying and not fighting

1:04:13

with it exacerbates the panic attack.

1:04:15

Think of it kind of like if you're caught in a riptide

1:04:18

in the ocean. I'm not sure if that's ever happened

1:04:20

to you, but typically people yeah,

1:04:22

and you start to fight with it and it keeps

1:04:24

pulling you under. But when you just

1:04:27

accept that you're in a riptide and you kind of

1:04:29

just surrender to the sea if you're going to get out

1:04:31

of it. So acceptance is huge,

1:04:33

acceptance of what it is that you're experiencing,

1:04:36

and then also staying in the present moment.

1:04:39

Anxiety and panic often want to bring

1:04:41

us to the what if all of those

1:04:43

horrible catastrophic things in the future.

1:04:46

I want my clients to stay and the what is

1:04:48

what actually is happening right

1:04:50

now? Yes, what

1:04:53

is actually happening? You know, you

1:04:55

haven't lost your job right now. You haven't.

1:04:58

Your partner hasn't broken up with you. What is actually

1:05:00

happening. What is happening is

1:05:03

your I don't know partner didn't

1:05:05

respond to your text. That's what actually happened.

1:05:08

We don't know anything about the future. So

1:05:11

staying in the present moment is really

1:05:13

helpful. Wow,

1:05:15

what if versus what is that's wild?

1:05:18

That's wild, that's a wild

1:05:20

therapist jargon right there. Um,

1:05:24

we are very pro therapy, as i've

1:05:27

I'm sure everybody who listens to this podcast,

1:05:29

UM can assume very pro therapy

1:05:32

here, and let's get into it. I'm very pro therapy

1:05:35

and all three of us have been in therapy,

1:05:37

and I think even though it's getting more common,

1:05:39

I want to continue just making it the most normal

1:05:42

thing in the world that people go to therapy. Uh.

1:05:44

And so I want to ask you, guys, one sentence,

1:05:47

why do you go to therapy?

1:05:49

My answer is super easy, and it's kind of the opposite

1:05:52

of what the stigma is is therapy makes

1:05:54

me feel normal. It makes me feel like

1:05:56

I am normal, and

1:05:58

that's so sick. Meg.

1:06:00

What about you? What is one reason that you go to therapy

1:06:03

that's so true? I agree with you. I think

1:06:06

just being able to talk to someone who is just

1:06:08

non biased, just there to

1:06:11

help you and to be there for you, because

1:06:13

you know, sometimes you go to your loved ones and

1:06:15

they'll be like, oh, everything's fine. You're like, you're lying to

1:06:17

me because you're my mom, you know what I mean. But

1:06:19

these people they don't know you. They're

1:06:22

they're just helping you, and and they're

1:06:24

educated and they know exactly what

1:06:26

they're talking about and they know how to help you.

1:06:28

And I think that's so it makes me feel

1:06:30

so comforted and like you said, normal,

1:06:33

You know, Alegor, why do you go

1:06:35

to therapy and why should other people go to therapy? And not just

1:06:37

so that you make more money.

1:06:42

So my what I really want to say is because I

1:06:44

love my therapist, Laurie. I'm also going to shout her

1:06:46

out like literally my favorite human. But

1:06:48

why I actually go to therapy is honestly

1:06:51

to keep I mean, therapy

1:06:54

saved my life. I guess that's my sentence. Therapy save

1:06:56

my life and it continues to help

1:06:58

me through every different stage job, my

1:07:00

mental health, and my life. So

1:07:03

I will be in therapy for the rest of my life.

1:07:05

Yeah, down twice

1:07:07

a week. I love it. Go to therapy.

1:07:09

If you're listening to this and you haven't gone a therapy, go to

1:07:12

therapy. And if you're listening to this you have gone to therapy, go

1:07:14

to therapy. It's well,

1:07:18

the guys, thank you so much for coming on my podcast.

1:07:20

It really really means a lot um. We have one

1:07:22

final segment and it is called Not So Shameless

1:07:25

Promo. It's where you get to just say,

1:07:27

you got to say everything that you want people

1:07:29

to know about you. You know, I'll start. I got

1:07:31

a movie coming out soon. It's called Finding Ahna

1:07:34

Amazing, and then you can just say

1:07:36

your social as you can do all of that stuff. Um

1:07:38

so Meg, take it away, tell us where we

1:07:40

can find you, tell us what's coming. Get us

1:07:42

excited. Oh man. Um,

1:07:45

my Instagram is just Magdonally. My

1:07:47

Twitter is I Magdonnally, a

1:07:50

Season five American Housewife is

1:07:52

still airing, um going strong.

1:07:56

And yeah, I've been during this whole

1:07:59

entire year. I've been making

1:08:01

music, so stay tuned for more

1:08:03

music on the way. Yeah,

1:08:06

I think that's it. There we go, Allegro.

1:08:10

What you got for us? So I

1:08:12

am moving to New York in less than

1:08:14

a week and I'm going to start a practice

1:08:16

there, which I'm super excited about. And

1:08:20

yeah, I'm so so excited about it. And I see

1:08:22

clients across the world,

1:08:24

by the way, like in other countries as well. So

1:08:27

most of my clients I see via telehealth.

1:08:29

But I am going to start a practice in New York

1:08:31

too. You can find me on Instagram

1:08:34

at obsessively ever after, or

1:08:37

my website is just my first and last name

1:08:39

allegro Castings dot com.

1:08:41

I love that. I love that y'all are pros.

1:08:44

You guys are pro promoters. You

1:08:46

know you can find me at alex ion O A I

1:08:48

O n oh. It's the best part about having a weird

1:08:50

last name. But more importantly than following

1:08:53

me, make sure you rate our podcast and subscribe.

1:08:55

That is how we grow. We've almost been

1:08:57

recording this podcast, recording, not drop

1:09:00

upping for a year, and

1:09:02

that's crazy to me. That is amazing

1:09:04

that we've been going at this for a whole year now.

1:09:06

And I'm so grateful that you've been on this process

1:09:08

with us. So make sure you subscribe, make sure you

1:09:10

rate our podcast you want, leave a nice little

1:09:12

leave, leave a nice little review for us as well.

1:09:15

But thank you so much for listening. I

1:09:17

love you guys. We'll talk to you next time feast.

1:09:26

We really want you to get the help you need, so if

1:09:28

you need help, please seek independent advice

1:09:30

from a competent healthcare or mental health professional.

1:09:33

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1:09:35

those of the podcast author or individuals participating

1:09:37

in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I

1:09:39

heart Media or its employees. This podcast should

1:09:42

not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,

1:09:44

counseling, or therapy. Listening to the podcast

1:09:46

does not established dr patient relationship with

1:09:48

hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into

1:09:50

It or I heart Media. No guarantee

1:09:52

is given regarding the accuracy of any statements

1:09:54

or opinions made on this podcast. Well,

1:09:57

if that's a doozy