Episode Transcript
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0:00
I'm Alex, and I am so
0:02
sick of this pandemic. No,
0:06
no, alright,
0:10
alright, forever, alright.
0:19
No, I've
0:23
only seen my family twice since
0:26
let's see March twelve,
0:28
which I think is when Los Angeles shut down.
0:30
Which I know that doesn't necessarily sound
0:33
like a bad thing seeing
0:35
your family twice, but for me, I'll
0:37
give you some context. I see my family at
0:39
least somebody in my family at
0:42
least I would say every other day,
0:44
if not, you know, three to four
0:46
times a week. So from going from
0:49
three to four times a week seeing somebody
0:51
in my family to now only seeing people
0:53
twice during the pandemic has
0:56
been very, very tough
0:59
for me. You know, I grew up. When I first
1:01
moved to Los Angeles, my family and I
1:03
we all shared a one bedroom apartment, so
1:05
we are so used to and not only used
1:07
to, but enjoy being together,
1:10
always spending time together, always
1:12
constantly knowing what's going on in each
1:14
other's lives and being connected and having
1:17
fun and playing games and going on adventures.
1:20
All of that stopped. And
1:22
not only it stopped at this time, but I
1:25
also you know, I have a niece who just turned
1:27
one. A couple of weeks ago, and
1:29
so not being able to see her kind of grow
1:32
up or watching her grow up through you
1:34
know, videos, and watching her grow
1:36
up on a screen U has been
1:38
pretty hard for me. Not
1:40
being able to hang out with my dad, who's one
1:42
of my closest friends, not being able to see
1:44
my mom and have her you know, scratch
1:47
my back and make jokes, and and all of us
1:49
having just that overall family time that
1:51
I'm used to having UM
1:53
isn't happening as much. And it's
1:55
really frustrating because as
1:58
I'm seeing people kind of just
2:00
getting tired of quarantining
2:03
or getting tired of being safe and being
2:05
smart, we are constantly
2:08
seeing our country continue to have rising
2:12
positive cases and we're having rising
2:14
deaths, and we're not making real changes.
2:16
And as soon as we start you know, quote
2:19
unquote flattening the curve, everybody
2:22
kind of thinks that we're done, and then we
2:24
just kind of find ourselves back in this loop
2:26
of more rising in cases.
2:29
And I even have a virtual tour that's
2:31
going on right now, and
2:33
one of the main highlights of that virtual
2:35
tour is a section where we talk about
2:37
how people's lives are being affected. And
2:39
I'm and I'm having conversations with my friends who
2:41
are nurses who feel like it's a slap in the
2:43
face that they're on the front
2:45
lines trying to help people, and they're
2:48
seeing what this virus really does to
2:50
individuals and too families, and
2:52
they they're seeing people just
2:55
because they don't want to quarantine anymore,
2:57
or just because they want to go out and eat at a
2:59
restaurant. They're just giving
3:02
up, you know, doing what it takes so that
3:04
we can beat this virus together.
3:07
Having friends who have had, you know, are dealing
3:09
with loss, Having friends who are just like me, not
3:11
being able to see their family, Having friends who are
3:13
teachers who are having
3:16
to basically change their whole
3:19
style of their profession, people who are
3:21
losing their jobs. So many things that are going wrong,
3:24
and yet I'm still seeing people who
3:26
are disrespecting
3:29
other people by
3:31
simply not distancing
3:34
themselves, not wearing masks, not staying home,
3:36
people who feel the need to go out and socialize
3:39
with their friends. And that got
3:41
me thinking, what do you do when coronavirus
3:43
starts coming for you? What's
3:47
up, y'all, it's alex IONO. This is let's get
3:49
into it where we talk about pretty much
3:51
everything that goes on in life. Nothing
3:53
is off limits, and today we're going to talk
3:55
about being away from your family during the pandemic.
3:58
UM. So to help me out with
4:00
this one, I have two very very good
4:02
friends. One is my wisdom tree that I always
4:04
turned to, Karen Erl Mean, how
4:07
are you, Karen? I am. I'm
4:09
doing COVID good. As you know, I like
4:13
COVID good. I love that. And also one
4:16
of my very very very very dear
4:18
friends. We have been friends now, we just clarified
4:20
eighteen years. I've known her since I was
4:22
in first grade. We
4:24
both grew up in Arizona. I
4:26
moved to California. She then also moved
4:29
to California to follow her dreams, which
4:31
is why we get along so well. She's been
4:33
by my side through thick and thin. Mackenzie
4:36
Mosley Ken's how are you, Bud? I'm
4:38
doing good today, doing good
4:40
today? You got you got, you got a big
4:43
smile on your face, So I'm with it. Um.
4:45
We are going to be talking basically about
4:48
the personal toll, and especially with the
4:50
highlight on families, because Mackenzie
4:52
and Karen, I know all three of us
4:54
have been away from our
4:57
families for quite a bit. I know, Karen, you're
4:59
used to seeing, you know, your brother, and
5:01
your niece, and your nephews and nieces
5:03
and nephews and and all of that family. Ken's
5:06
you know, and you both of us have seen our
5:08
family I think twice during the pandemic,
5:10
and have been dealing with our own then personal
5:12
struggles outside of that. And so we're
5:14
gonna be breaking down a couple of topics.
5:17
First, Um, Mackenzie, you and I are gonna
5:19
be talking about losing loved ones and dealing with
5:21
the family, the family told that that takes.
5:24
After that, Karen, you and I are gonna be talking
5:26
about what that true toll of being away
5:28
from your family really is. And lastly, we're
5:30
gonna talk about what we can do about it, what we should
5:32
do about it. And even though I'm pretty sure
5:34
everybody that lives in America already knows what
5:36
we're supposed to be doing, how can
5:39
we can actually how we can
5:41
actually get that done. But
5:43
before we get into those topics, I have a question
5:45
that I ask all of my guests, and
5:47
it is what are you doing to better
5:50
your life right now? We've
5:52
had so many different answers Ken's Karen's
5:54
given great answers historically and
5:57
continues to give great answers. I
5:59
have an answer that I'll give while you guys think
6:01
about yours. Uh, and it has been
6:03
I have recommitted to my
6:06
fitness goals. Um.
6:08
Actually, speaking of the pandemic, I you
6:10
know, when the pandemic first started, I was like, yeah,
6:13
we gotta like I'm gonna go hard, like I'm gonna
6:15
just I'm gonna eat healthy and clean and
6:17
I'm gonna work out. And I got really, I really got
6:19
to the best shape of my life. And everything
6:21
opened up for like two seconds in Los
6:23
Angeles, and I was hyped as soon as they
6:26
closed down again. I reached this level of just
6:28
like what is the point, Like why why?
6:30
Like there's no point in in
6:32
in and
6:35
not eating foods that I want to eat on an
6:37
everyday basis that do genuinely make me
6:39
happy. Um, because
6:42
nobody's gonna see me. I'm in my house, I'm in my
6:44
I'm in my room twenties two hours
6:46
of the day. So UM, I
6:48
have now recommitted to those fitness
6:50
goals because I do miss the
6:53
way just kind of the vibe that I had
6:55
before, where it was waking up super early, getting
6:57
some good cardio in having
7:00
nice healthy meal. There was just a nice little structure
7:02
to that. So the thing that I've done this week to better
7:04
my life is I've recommitted to those
7:06
goals and getting back on my little
7:08
fitness train. Karen, do you have something
7:11
for me? I do. I have
7:13
been painting, not
7:15
painting the walls of my house, but like art,
7:18
and the listeners can't see
7:20
what I'm holding up, but this is like a little
7:23
two inch by three inch piece of water
7:25
color paper. And I have a weekly
7:28
um art date with my niece, who
7:30
Alex knows, my twelve year old niece, and
7:33
we are on Zoom together and we
7:36
paint and she's an amazing artist.
7:38
And sometimes especially if I am like in
7:40
a super funky down mood and
7:43
I'm just watching like mindless TV, I will pull
7:45
out my water colors and I'll just be painting
7:47
sitting on the sofa. Nice. I
7:50
love that she has a twelve year old niece
7:52
that is just insanely talented
7:54
as an artist, Like it's insane how talented
7:56
she is at the age of twelve. So we are rooting
7:59
for you. Um Ken's do you
8:01
have anything for me. Um. So
8:03
this week, I've been focusing on every
8:06
day doing something different, one
8:09
thing that makes me happy. Whether that's
8:11
I have a spot here in l A that I go
8:14
drive to and sit by myself and I just think,
8:16
whether it's reading, I wake up
8:18
in the morning and I meditate, I
8:21
organized my house. I try
8:23
to make it something different every day so that I don't
8:25
become complacent. And with one
8:27
thing, I'm trying to find different ways to make me
8:29
happy and focus on myself
8:32
because I'm someone who typically focuses
8:35
on other people's happiness and making sure
8:37
they're okay, versus focusing on myself.
8:39
So I've really been trying to just focus on
8:41
me and make sure I'm good, because
8:44
if I can't be happy other people,
8:46
like I can't make other people truly happy. I'm
8:49
focusing on facts. I
8:51
love it. All. Right, Well, let's
8:53
get into some Let's get into some conversations.
8:55
Karen, we'll talk with you in a bit. Keenzie, it's
8:58
time for us to go one on one um. But before
9:00
we get into that, like, I feel like you and I
9:02
were too good of friends to not tell kind
9:04
of our story about how we know each other. And
9:06
I've mentioned a little bit already. Um,
9:08
But Ken's we met in elementary school.
9:11
I was in first grade. You were in second grade, even
9:13
though you're only four
9:15
weeks older than me. Um,
9:18
you were just you were in the grade above. But we
9:20
actually became friends because I
9:22
think I feel like, I mean, we became friends because
9:24
we we enjoyed each other's company. But um,
9:27
your older sister, uh Diz
9:29
or Madison, um is
9:32
best friends, like absolute best friends with
9:34
my older sister Sydney, and so I think we
9:36
became friends out of that, and then we
9:38
also just like enjoyed each other's company. I
9:41
feel like when we were in elementary school, though, like
9:43
we would either be friends some days and then some
9:45
days we would be like arch Nemesis is
9:47
and we used to we I'm not gonna say
9:49
any of them because they were so mean
9:51
and I would look like such a meanie. But
9:53
we used to say some of the nastiest things
9:56
to each other, like out of like we would just be ripping
9:58
each other, like roasting each other before
10:00
roasting was a thing. Mackenzie and I would
10:03
like roast each other insane
10:05
amounts. I remember, you know exactly
10:07
what to talk about when we were when I was in fourth grade,
10:09
you're in fifth grade. We had this
10:12
we were on this like this elementary
10:14
school like school trip
10:16
that you go up to these cabins, and we
10:19
were I can't even say
10:21
the things that I can't even
10:23
say the things that we were saying to each other. That's
10:26
how mean we were as children. By
10:28
the way, if you're a child, you're mean.
10:30
I mean, your kids are mean and
10:33
and and I know that adults are mean too, but kids
10:35
can be mean because they don't understand. They don't
10:37
know the line. When you're an adult, you know the line
10:39
and if you cross the line, you're really mean.
10:42
But kids don't know the line, so they there's nothing
10:44
that's off limits for kids. Kids will funk
10:46
your day up. Um.
10:49
That being said, we were those kids like we were, we were
10:51
so many But eventually, after we kind
10:53
of had a couple of years apart, when you went to middle school
10:55
and I was still in elementary school and I moved a little bit, we
10:57
came back together, went to the same school when
11:00
I was in eighth grade and you were in ninth grade, and
11:02
in our friendship kind of double
11:04
reignited, and and we've been best
11:07
friends ever since. Did I miss anything.
11:10
Um, I think you nailed that
11:12
one. We grew up performing together, which
11:14
yes, we did grow up performing together, and we always
11:17
both like had really good passion for
11:19
like a really strong passion for art. Um.
11:21
And I just think it's so cool
11:23
that now you've been out here for three years, Um,
11:26
but you work in film and you
11:29
actually are. So We're
11:31
so connected through people that we work with.
11:33
Um, you have a friend, you have a really good friendship
11:36
in the assistant editor for my movie,
11:38
UM that's about to come out, Finding Ohana.
11:41
So we have a we have a lot of connections
11:43
even in our professional world. Now,
11:46
UM, that's really really cool. And I just love having
11:48
a friend that, you know, I
11:50
think out of everybody in Los Angeles, UM,
11:53
when it comes to moving out from you
11:55
know, from Arizona to to Los Angeles, chasing
11:58
your dreams, knowing what that means to
12:00
your family back home and the expectations
12:02
and all of the pressures and all that, I don't think anybody
12:04
gets it more than you do when it comes
12:06
to us like getting each other. And so it's
12:08
been really really nice having somebody that is
12:11
just a good sounding board. Um. But
12:13
enough about our friendship. I want to talk to
12:15
you about what before we get into the
12:17
more personal stuff. Uh, tell
12:19
us about your living situation. What's your day
12:21
to day is, like, um,
12:24
what your work life is like in
12:27
and kind of all of that aspect of your
12:29
your California lifestyle. So
12:32
typically, I mean before the pandemic,
12:34
like I work in film, I
12:37
usually have a really busy day
12:39
to day. I usually work like sixty
12:42
to seventy five hours a week is what my schedule
12:45
was. Um. When the pandemic
12:47
hit, It's just within
12:50
three days quickly shifted into working
12:53
from home, which was
12:55
a learning curve because when you're used to being
12:57
in a fast paced environment,
13:00
it having everyone around you when you need
13:02
something, and then just going to nothing
13:04
like you and yourself at home.
13:07
Having to learn to navigate
13:09
that way. It's hard, but I got used
13:11
to it. Um. Unfortunately,
13:14
now I'm not working due to the pandemic.
13:16
So it's it's allowed me to really
13:19
sit with myself and now I have a new normal
13:22
of like trying to do something
13:24
new every day in my living situation, Like I
13:26
just had two new people move into my home.
13:29
Navigating that, Um,
13:32
it's it's a it's
13:35
hard, but it's I'm doing it.
13:37
It's one day at a time, is what it's
13:39
come down to, and trying
13:41
to take all the emotions
13:43
and everything that come from it and put it into my
13:46
passion and art within film
13:48
and using these emotions to write and
13:51
try to create something new with the new normal,
13:54
especially for transplants Um
13:56
that that you know that moved to Los Angeles and
13:58
when you don't have a lot of friends and a lot of family
14:00
and you live you know, like you mentioned,
14:03
you just got new roommates, but for the last
14:05
like monthish, it's been kind of you
14:07
living solo dolo and
14:09
uh, I think a lot of people don't understand,
14:12
like part of the l a lifestyle, especially
14:15
when you're not from here and you don't have family
14:17
and and and and close people that you live with,
14:20
is being out. Is going out seeing
14:22
your friends, hanging out, you know, going meeting
14:24
up at parties or meeting up for for lunch or
14:27
or you know, doing your actual
14:29
work. When you're not doing those things,
14:32
it becomes a lot more isolating. And
14:34
uh. And especially because I know um
14:38
firsthand with you like you've
14:40
been You're one of the earliest people that
14:43
I knew that also was taking it super
14:45
serious because your father, Um,
14:48
which we'll get into first. Your father contracted
14:51
COVID pretty early on in the in
14:53
the pandemic UM.
14:57
What were your thoughts when that happened?
14:59
Because you're your father. By the way, Bill Mosley
15:01
is one of my favorite people on earth. He
15:03
has just like the kindest soul
15:06
and is always making you laugh. There's
15:08
never a dull moment with Bill. Um.
15:10
And he's also been he had been dealing before
15:13
COVID, was dealing with other
15:15
health issues. So can you go into a little bit more
15:17
about that whole situation and how that
15:20
made you feel? So and
15:23
if I get emotional, I apologize,
15:25
It's okay, sorry,
15:28
that's good, You're good, We're with
15:31
you. Um.
15:34
So at the beginning, when I
15:37
think within the week of when
15:40
I transitioned into working from home is
15:43
the same week I found out about my dad and
15:47
I knew my dad like me and my dad
15:49
talk every day, Like if
15:52
I don't hear from him or I'm not reach
15:54
out to him, like something's I
15:56
know, something's off. So
15:59
I had few days I was like, where it Like, I
16:01
have not heard from my dad. So
16:04
I reached out to my siblings. I'm like, is
16:06
everything okay? Like I
16:08
haven't heard from dad, and
16:11
they like, then let me know it had been three or four
16:13
days. At this point, they knew
16:16
I was stressing and struggling with this whole transition
16:18
of being home and just
16:21
dealing with other personal things in
16:23
my life, and so they then told
16:25
me, like, your dad's in the hospital,
16:28
and they didn't want to freak me out. And I
16:31
understand why they were trying to keep
16:33
me calm and not freak me out until they knew
16:35
exactly what was going on, because he had
16:37
been stable. And
16:40
then we found out my dad had COVID and
16:43
it he was in the hospital for a
16:45
while. Not getting this
16:48
is when it was first starting. The hospitals were packed,
16:50
like not being able to get updates
16:52
every day you sit and you just worry,
16:55
and then getting an update like
16:57
we don't know if your dad's gonna make it, and
17:01
constantly every day being something different
17:03
like that's hard, and then
17:05
it being away from your family
17:07
already, like I'm here alone of
17:09
I have my support system here, but
17:12
there's nothing like your family support. So
17:15
not being able to be there and just be in the comfort
17:18
of my home dealing with this my
17:20
family was so hard, and
17:23
eventually, like my dad got out of the hospital and
17:26
he had to recover at home alone, and
17:28
then my heart just broke for him because I'm
17:30
like being alone, being sick, and
17:33
like not having your family be able to like be
17:35
with you. He was alone for two
17:38
months, like we couldn't my family
17:41
had to drop off food at the door,
17:43
like we could barely call
17:45
him because he couldn't didn't have
17:47
enough air to talk, like his
17:50
energy was taken from walking to the
17:52
bathroom, like horrible. So
17:54
to not be able to be there and at least
17:56
comfort your family and feel the comfort
17:58
from your family, it broke
18:01
my heart. And I still get emotional, God, because I like,
18:04
because people
18:06
are being selfish in the world and people
18:09
aren't taking it seriously, and like I had to see
18:11
someone I love dearly like
18:13
struggle. And fortunately he
18:15
is recovered and he's doing a lot better.
18:18
But it's like he didn't have to go
18:20
through that for three months.
18:22
I mean, there's a there's a lot to be said. Also that I want
18:24
to point out, just knowing you,
18:27
Ken's is that you're
18:29
like me, where you have your
18:31
whole family as a unit, and it is
18:33
you're you're talking to your family every day when
18:35
when we were in Arizona. Even
18:38
to broaden the scope, you know, your
18:40
your first cousins were all at
18:42
the same school with us, Like you're that close with
18:45
Caitlin, with Aunt Sharon. You have
18:47
all of your aunts and your uncles. You all live so close
18:49
together and seeing each other so so common.
18:51
And that's something that you and I really
18:53
related to when this pandemic started,
18:56
was feeling like we can't see
18:58
the people. You know, if
19:00
if they told you, hey, you have one day
19:02
to gather all of the people that you want to be with
19:05
and then you have to lock down, we would have both been
19:07
home and you know, moved and had the
19:09
time to prep. We didn't get that time,
19:11
so by the time that it started, we didn't have the
19:13
opportunity to change. And the
19:15
same goes for your father where it's it's he
19:18
didn't have the opportunity to be quarantined
19:20
with you know, if he had his if he had
19:22
his choice choice, knowing Bill, it would
19:24
be you, Heiris and
19:27
and Diz living in the house with
19:29
him, so that while he's back home and recovering,
19:32
uh, he has you there with him. Um.
19:34
The good news is is that you know, like you
19:36
mentioned Bills on the up and up, and
19:38
he's already getting his he's getting his little comedic
19:41
taste back and is in in full energy
19:43
and everything. So, um,
19:46
Bill, we love you and and uh and we're with you.
19:49
But I want it before we get into I'm gonna give you
19:51
a crying break because I knowing you, you're gonna
19:53
cry again a little bit later on in this episode
19:55
probably I want to clarify. Also, one thing,
19:58
Um, You're just just to make sure
20:00
Bill got he got COVID in April, right
20:03
March. So it was it
20:05
really was like we're talking about he
20:07
was the first person that was close to me that I
20:09
heard um had COVID as well.
20:12
And so uh for you know,
20:14
for that being kind of and out the gates,
20:17
this is you know, you had a firsthand experience
20:19
of what this this virus does. Uh,
20:21
it's pretty scary and it definitely like,
20:23
yeah, it pisces. It pisses me off
20:26
to knowing things that like, look,
20:28
I know that I I know you know, I am
20:31
of I'm of pretty good
20:33
health. Like I think I'm I'm of top tier
20:35
health when it comes to their if health was a tax
20:37
bracket, I would be at the highest
20:39
tier. Like if they if they broke it up, Like I feel
20:42
like, if I got the virus, I would be absolutely fine.
20:45
But my dad has pre existing conditions. My
20:47
dad had quadruple bypassed and has an
20:49
enlarged heart right now, and
20:51
my grandparents have are are obviously
20:54
you know, their immune systems aren't the same as
20:56
mine. There their respiratory systems
20:58
and not the same as mine. Even Mickey
21:00
and Sandy, who I live with here at the house, don't
21:02
have the same respiratory system and the health systems
21:05
that I have. UM.
21:07
So because of that, I want to stay inside.
21:09
And it's really sad that a lot of people don't
21:12
recognize that same exact thing
21:14
that that yes,
21:17
if you get it, you'll be okay, but it's
21:19
not the same for everybody.
21:22
Let's let's let's go back in time to right after
21:25
your dad, you know, he's in the clear, you're you
21:27
have you get to exhale. Where
21:29
were your thoughts and where are
21:31
your thoughts compared to that um about
21:34
the coronavirus in terms of your anxiety to
21:36
go outside or to go and and contract
21:38
the virus because you're, you know, for fear of
21:41
of getting it. Because the other thing is It's not only
21:43
about now that you've seen your father
21:45
who had to go to the hospital, had to recover and it's been
21:47
months and months of recovery, you don't
21:49
know if that would be the same situation for
21:51
you. So it's also the fear that
21:54
you because there are people that are in
21:56
their young twenties that are getting
21:58
it and are experiencing that same traumatic,
22:00
if not even more traumatic experiences.
22:04
Having that firsthand experience super early
22:06
on in the pandemic, did that shape a
22:08
little bit of your kind of your thoughts
22:10
and feelings about the pandemic. Um
22:13
definitely, like put
22:15
things into perspective because when
22:17
this all first started, you
22:20
like hear about it, It's all over the news, Social
22:22
media's blasted with it, and
22:24
you don't think that someone close to you, that
22:27
close to you, you don't think
22:29
they're going to get it, and then they do. So
22:31
it like when my dad
22:34
started getting better, Like I was still paranoid.
22:36
I was so paranoid because I'm like I
22:39
like when I tried to go to the grocery store, I had so much
22:41
anxiety, Like I just felt gross,
22:44
like I don't want to touch anything. I was
22:46
like, how did my dad get this? Because
22:48
we don't know how he got it, Like he doesn't do
22:50
that much like work, church, home,
22:53
So I'm like, he got this either
22:55
picked it up from the store, church, or work.
22:58
So any time I had to leave my house or go get
23:00
gas, like, I was so paranoid,
23:03
and I tried to like not, I
23:06
tried to allow myself not to feel that much anxiety
23:08
and stress about it. If I was doing
23:10
my part. I was like, if you're doing your part and you're
23:14
staying home and being clean and
23:17
talking to my friends about it and
23:19
having them do the same out here and making sure
23:21
my family is doing
23:24
their part, that helped. That
23:26
helped me a lot. And I think constantly
23:29
just talking about it and sharing
23:32
my dad's story with other people to
23:34
show them like, hey, like, now you know someone
23:36
close to you whose parent has
23:38
it. Like I just tried to use
23:41
my experience to teach
23:43
people and help them to help
23:45
myself because if not, I was going
23:47
crazy. And I feel like I feel like once
23:50
you have that firsthand experience, not only
23:53
do you want to tell everybody else to be
23:55
kind of better about it, but you
23:57
also clean up everything all of the little
23:59
things that you were doing. You know, I know that you had,
24:02
you had your friend's roommate who had
24:04
who had contracted COVID. It
24:06
kind of changes the way that you act as a person,
24:09
knowing, hey, this happened to my father,
24:11
or this happened to my friend or my close friend. I
24:13
need to be better about it since
24:16
that moment you and I have had. You
24:18
know, the only times that I saw you during
24:20
the pandemic so far where
24:22
from you know, you would pull up to my house
24:24
and sit outside in your car and roll down your window
24:27
and I'd sit on my like I'd sit on the
24:29
trunk of my car, and we would just have conversations
24:31
for you know, for an hour, or you'd come by and just
24:33
stop by and drop off a treat, or
24:36
you know, we would we would face time and all of
24:38
those things. We
24:40
were doing a really good job and still are
24:43
doing a really good job. And I take
24:45
pride in the fact that through the pandemic,
24:47
I have been very responsible, and anytime
24:50
I wasn't responsible, I go and get tested or
24:52
I quarantined myself away from people that I think
24:54
could get it. And
24:56
then it doesn't
24:59
really change for us. You know,
25:01
we do everything we can, but still at
25:03
the same time, we still are experiencing more friends
25:05
and family contracting coronavirus. We're
25:07
still experiencing losses,
25:09
We're still experiencing all of these things, which
25:12
leads me to the last thing I want to talk with you about,
25:14
um, which is Grandma Rose
25:17
uh and uh and that to me
25:19
is it's really frustrating as
25:21
your you know, as your best friend, seeing
25:24
that even when we are doing everything
25:26
we can, it
25:28
doesn't change outcomes
25:30
for our people. And
25:33
uh and and I want to talk a little bit about about
25:36
that because it does bring up a lot of emotions,
25:39
um, for me, just as your
25:41
friends. So I can't imagine the emotions that
25:43
that go through your head as somebody who is doing
25:46
everything right and trying to get your
25:48
family to do everything right. And for the most
25:50
part, they probably are outside of going to work,
25:52
you know, I know Kathy and Diz and and Caitlin
25:54
and Sharon, they're not they're not being reckless and
25:56
going out and hanging out with friends and going to
25:59
bars.
26:01
But things still happen and and
26:03
and the virus still continues
26:05
to spread and it affects people. So
26:08
UM, I'll tell
26:10
the news if if that's okay with you,
26:12
your your grandma passed away about
26:14
a month ago now from coronavirus
26:18
and complications that came
26:20
along with that. I've met Grandma
26:22
Rose a few times, and she's just you
26:24
know, from doing jello shots at
26:27
ninety years old to like just having
26:29
the sweetest heart and always laughing and
26:31
smart, like she lived every day of her life.
26:33
Like I think that's the one guarantee from
26:35
your view, tell me a little bit about your grandma. Grandma
26:39
Rose, literally, she's like she's
26:42
like the light of our family. My grandpa
26:44
passed away like years
26:46
ago. She raised eight kids by herself,
26:49
brought them all to Arizona. My family's
26:51
huge, there's plus
26:53
grandkids and great grandkids. Like, our
26:56
family is very close, and it was we
26:59
centered around her. She literally
27:01
was the light. And with
27:04
her being gone, it's like you want to try
27:06
to focus on who she was, and I
27:08
think that's what helped the
27:10
situation. And she was years
27:12
old, she lived an amazing
27:15
life, Like she's one of the strongest
27:17
people I know. I mean, to raise eight children by
27:19
yourself, um, and everyone came
27:21
out okay, I it
27:24
just says who she's as a person. She loved
27:27
fully with her whole heart. She never
27:29
remarried, because she held onto the
27:32
love from her husband that passed away, and
27:34
she just like she's
27:36
one of the biggest motivators, I think to every
27:38
single person in her family, because you can't think
27:41
of her or look at her think of a story where you're
27:43
like Grandma, like she truly put
27:45
her heart into helping
27:47
us become who we are. And but
27:50
I have comfort and knowing she lived
27:52
her life and lived it fully and lived
27:55
it happily, um like,
27:58
and she was strong. She had her own health issues.
28:00
She had five back surgeries after
28:03
eighty, Like this girl was kicking.
28:06
But I knowing how
28:08
strong she was in the love she had is what helps
28:11
is what helps me with all of it. And I'm
28:13
so happy that you found that, like that
28:16
happiness you know now being
28:18
being here and having dealt with
28:20
it and really digested everything. Um
28:22
But I also know you know from the jump when
28:24
you and I were talking the day that you found
28:26
out that she even had coronavirus before
28:28
she had even passed, you know. For I
28:31
remember my sister Sydney was freaking out about
28:33
the coronavirus in January,
28:35
Like she was buying you know, hand
28:37
sanitizer wipes and all that in January,
28:40
and I was like, you're kind of crazy, but
28:43
you other than my sister, like you
28:45
were one of the first people that I was like, yeah,
28:47
you're taking it seriously. I'm going to take it seriously
28:49
too. And so it can't feel good. And I know it
28:51
doesn't feel good being the people
28:54
who are doing everything right during
28:56
the pandemic and still having
28:58
to deal with if your
29:01
people who are also doing as
29:03
best as they can to distance
29:05
and to wear masks and sanitize and clean, who
29:09
are who are suffering from this? So tell me
29:11
about your emotions, like you know, when you found
29:13
out and and and when things
29:15
kind of we're getting a little bit more serious with
29:18
my grandma. It all. It's
29:21
it's crazy how fast things happened
29:23
with this virus. You know. I we
29:26
knew like my grandma
29:28
was sick, like she wasn't
29:30
doing her best, but like she's so strong,
29:32
and in my head, I'm like, you almost
29:34
start to believe that they're constantly just going to
29:37
boldos through it and be fine. So
29:40
my grandma heard like, Okay, she's
29:42
she's sick. But then we gotta
29:44
call like Grandma tested positive
29:47
for COVID and we don't know she's
29:49
going to make it through the night, and I literally
29:51
like, sorry,
29:54
here we go again. That
29:57
like broke me because
30:00
it automatically went went in my mind.
30:02
I was like, how did she get this? My
30:04
grandma's nineties six. She's not out,
30:07
she's not out roaming
30:09
the streets, going out with friends, not even going to
30:12
the store, like someone brought
30:14
this into her. And it
30:16
broke my heart because it was like she
30:18
does not deserve this, not that anyone deserves it, but
30:21
I'm like how how?
30:23
And so I that first
30:26
day, like I was completely
30:28
broken emotional. I couldn't think, Like
30:30
it was hard for all of our family because we're like completely
30:33
on edge because we're like we don't know if
30:35
she's going to make it. And within
30:39
like um, within three
30:41
days, she was gone. And I
30:44
think the second and third day I
30:47
started to accept Okay, like I
30:50
don't want to think negatively, but they're telling
30:52
us like she her body is just
30:54
not strong enough to fight it. And
30:57
so I accepted that and from then I
31:00
to just like try to focus
31:02
on her light that I spoke about previously,
31:04
like try to focus on everything
31:09
positive. She's done, everything positive,
31:11
she's brought into your life, the strong
31:13
life she lived, and everything. She spot through them
31:15
like girls tired, Like you know, maybe
31:19
it's unfortunate that this is what took
31:21
her, but she
31:24
lived a good life. And I'm like, she's
31:27
I believe she's with my grandpa again,
31:30
and I try to focus
31:32
on those happy things because if not, the emotions
31:34
will just wreck you, Like I was
31:36
destroyed seeing my mom and my
31:38
siblings and my aunts and uncles and everyone
31:42
feeling this emotion. I was like, this is You've
31:45
got to be able to feel them so you don't suppress
31:47
them. I gave myself my days to feel
31:49
them, and then I was like, okay, you felt
31:52
him. Now you got to just try to focus
31:54
on the positive of it all. And it
31:57
just wants to help makes me want
31:59
to like tell these stories, and I
32:02
wish everyone in the world of selfish.
32:04
There are a lot of people being so selfish in the world,
32:06
and it it makes me so mad
32:08
because I'm like, first
32:10
I didn't know if my dad was going to make it, and
32:13
now I lost someone to it, and that like there's
32:17
nothing like it's not fair. She didn't
32:19
have to go this way because
32:21
of other people, And that's
32:25
just the hardest part to grasp on too, and trying
32:28
not to be angry. It's it's
32:30
hard, but it's still emotional.
32:33
Um and even it comes
32:35
to like we can't even set a proper
32:37
funeral and these things
32:39
because different states have different restrictions,
32:42
Like we have a huge family that's very
32:44
close, like trying to find
32:47
a safe time for everyone to gather, like it's been
32:49
impossible to figure
32:51
out, and trying to get her back to Illinois,
32:54
like it's so difficult, not
32:56
being able to even celebrate her life right
32:58
now. And they're maze person as
33:00
she was. Because the way the world is and
33:04
it's horrible. Don want you have to go through it, but
33:06
it's our reality and then and you
33:09
just got a fine ways to be positive through it.
33:12
So yeah, I'm
33:14
I'm, I'm absolutely with you.
33:16
And I understand every frustration
33:19
and stress and anger that you have and
33:21
the fact that you're as balanced as you
33:23
are now. You know, I I it's
33:25
one of the many reasons why I look up to
33:27
you and I love you, and I and I see you as an inspiration
33:30
to me is that you've always been able to find the
33:32
positivity out of things. You've always been
33:35
able to find the light in situations
33:37
from losing
33:40
family members to just having a shitty
33:42
day. And so it's something that I
33:44
I look up to you and and I admire
33:46
so much about you. Um, like
33:49
you mentioned and like I mentioned, Grandma
33:51
Rose like, to me, it was just there was nothing
33:53
that she was going to
33:55
allow herself to not do if she wanted
33:58
it. You know, she lived at
34:00
a at a hundred miles per hour all
34:02
the time, no limits if
34:04
you like, literally are you were posting stories?
34:07
Um, I think a few days after she passed,
34:09
and it was like literally doing jello shots
34:12
with your your nine year old grandma
34:14
at apart like it was. That's like to me, I know
34:16
I said that twice, And that's probably not the
34:18
best like character reveal
34:21
of of who she is, because she's also like there's
34:23
so many other things that probably show her spirit even
34:25
more. But to me, that is just proof
34:28
that she didn't let anything stop
34:31
her and there was no reason for her to not
34:33
do something if she wanted it. That's
34:35
something that I take away a lot from from Grandma
34:37
Rose as I as I think about you know,
34:39
as I think about her in her life, what's
34:42
something that you'll always remember about
34:44
your grandma? Always
34:46
remember her like her
34:49
willingness, to never ever give up. Ever,
34:53
because of everything I've seen her go
34:56
through, and I mean not see her faith
34:58
and love stick with me, but she literally
35:00
never gave up. And I think it shows
35:02
because she kicked it until she was nine
35:05
six, um, and that
35:07
will stick with me in in any aspect of
35:09
life, career, friendships,
35:11
family, love. Yeah.
35:14
Absolutely well. Uh, I
35:16
know that she loves you. I know that she she's she's
35:18
watching you right now and is so proud of you for being
35:20
the strong willed, you know individual
35:23
that you are. I love you, and and
35:25
I'm going to talk with you in just a little bit. But first
35:27
I'm gonna take a quick break and then we'll
35:29
be talking with Karen about more
35:31
of that true toll of family separation.
35:34
We'll be back, all
35:36
right, We are back. This is alex Iono, and
35:38
this is let's get into it, and we're talking about
35:41
the pandemic and the toll that it takes
35:44
on individuals and on families.
35:46
I just finished a nice conversation UM
35:48
with one of my best friends, Mackenzie Moseley,
35:51
who dealt with loss, dealt
35:53
with her father contracting the virus
35:55
um and and is dealing with not being with
35:57
her family. UM. Which is something that I relate
35:59
to directly. And now I have another
36:01
one of my very very good friends, Karen er lickman
36:04
Um, who is a therapist and can
36:06
give us a little bit more insight on what that true
36:08
toll of the family separation is.
36:11
Karen, how are you? I am doing
36:14
good today, Alexa COVID good
36:18
as of two days ago, Karen. August
36:20
twelve, the U S reported the
36:22
highest coronavirus death rate since
36:25
May. Undred Americans
36:27
lost their lives due to coronavirus. So
36:29
while some parts of the country are kind of relaxing
36:33
their restrictions, we are so
36:35
so not out of the woods like that. It
36:38
is insane how not
36:40
out of the woods we are, and how how
36:42
much you would think we are based off of how people
36:44
are acting right now. Um,
36:47
you just heard the conversation I had with Mackenzie,
36:49
and I've heard. I mean, I've talked to Mackenzie
36:52
so many times, and she's
36:54
cried to me so many times, and I still feel
36:56
so deeply every time she tells
36:58
me, every time we talk about out her grandmother
37:00
or every time we talk about her father, it's
37:03
happened. That's that's just my friend, you
37:06
know. Every person that dies. All hundred
37:09
Americans who died on August twelve
37:11
from coronavirus had a family.
37:13
They had a son or a daughter, or a mother or
37:15
a father, or a brother or a sister, or family
37:17
members and somebody.
37:20
For each of those hundred, at least one
37:22
person is going to grieve that same exact way
37:25
that Mackenzie has to. I
37:28
just I I don't know, I don't I don't even know
37:30
how to feel about that. How do you feel about
37:33
just that that? That's such a sad
37:35
thing to hear, you know, especially
37:39
knowing that it didn't have to get
37:41
to this point. It did not. The
37:44
thing that said also is that there's there is a
37:46
lot of damage that's going on even outside
37:48
of coronavirus itself in
37:51
these times. New York Times has reported
37:53
an unprecedented amount of deaths outside
37:55
of coronavirus. Since March, there have been
37:57
an excess of sixty thousand non
38:00
COVID related deaths, above and beyond
38:03
what the normal average is. I
38:05
want to give a loving shout out
38:07
to one of our producers. If you are regular
38:10
on this show, um, you already know who Catherine
38:12
is. She is the producer of Let's Get into it.
38:15
Catherine has lost since March six
38:17
close friends and family members that are
38:19
not coronavirus related deaths.
38:23
It's devastating to me. I
38:25
remember when we were kind of talking about
38:27
opening up the country again this is probably April
38:29
May, and doctors were saying
38:32
it might we might lose more lives because
38:35
of the effects of coronavirus then
38:37
we will to the coronavirus itself.
38:40
What are your thoughts on that, Karen, It's
38:44
not surprising to me,
38:48
and I've been observing it too, in
38:50
terms of greater numbers of
38:52
deaths from other causes, not
38:54
just from coronavirus, partly
38:57
because the stress
39:00
of living in a day to day
39:02
global trauma is extremely
39:04
hard on our immune systems. It's
39:07
very hard on our nervous systems. We
39:09
are all living with this day to day anxiety
39:13
and being
39:15
under that level of stress makes it
39:17
hard to fight off even a cold,
39:20
right, you know. It's so stress
39:22
in and of itself is very hard on our
39:24
bodies, and we
39:27
are all for the most part,
39:30
having a very difficult
39:32
time metabolizing that this
39:34
is actually happening, So
39:37
I'm not surprised. Also, the health care system
39:40
is completely maxed out, right
39:42
now, so the capacity to provide
39:45
the quality and quantity of care that's
39:48
needed is really limited. Also,
39:51
all the same health disparities,
39:54
the sociological issues in
39:56
terms of barriers to care for
39:59
uninsured people, for people
40:01
living in poverty, for unhoused people,
40:03
for people to color, all those health disparities
40:06
are just magnified even worse.
40:08
So people are waiting until they're
40:10
really sick to go to the doctor, or they're not going to
40:12
the doctor, maybe because they're
40:15
afraid. Um, either
40:17
they're afraid they're going to get it, they
40:19
don't know that they have it. People are afraid to go
40:21
to the doctor, or they are afraid
40:23
they're going to lose their home, or they don't
40:26
have the money to pay for the care that they need.
40:28
So all of those things that have been there
40:30
are still there. I think we simply
40:32
just we as a country,
40:35
we're not ready for this. We
40:38
could have been more ready for this
40:41
with without throwing all of the
40:43
shade ever directly at our
40:45
our government right now, we
40:48
weren't ready for this. Hospital wise,
40:50
beds wise, ventilators wise, um,
40:54
but as as people, we weren't ready for
40:56
this. What are your thoughts there
40:58
were without
41:01
going down the political rabbit hole. There
41:03
were some folks who spoke out way
41:05
early on. That's
41:07
why I was saying, well, you could have been right. So
41:10
like you when
41:12
you have somebody, an intelligent
41:15
voice of wisdom who says, I'm concerned
41:17
this is going to happen, and then that gets ignored
41:20
for all the reasons. Um,
41:24
you know, shame on everybody, Shame
41:27
on them, right, absolutely, So
41:30
it's a little bit like um,
41:35
knowing that drunk driving,
41:38
how many millions of people are killed
41:40
from drunk driving, and then thinking
41:43
that you can drive drunk and you're going to be fine,
41:45
and it's only those other people who have to worry about
41:47
this. Also,
41:50
I was somebody who lived through and
41:52
worked as a social worker during
41:55
the early years of the AIDS epidemic,
41:59
and so at that time
42:01
the country and the world had no way
42:03
of knowing what was going to happen with HIV. Of
42:06
course, obviously a lot has changed now and
42:08
there are people who have lived for decades
42:10
being HIV positive because of advances
42:14
in medical research. But
42:18
um, we should have learned
42:21
from that, right, Like
42:23
even the thing about um universal
42:26
precautions, Like having worked in a hospital
42:28
with work, I worked with pregnant women
42:30
who were HIV positive, and
42:32
the there were people who worked
42:34
in that hospital who still believed that
42:37
um, white
42:40
people didn't get HIV, that had
42:42
our sexual people didn't get HIV, that only
42:44
drug users got HIV, all those things,
42:46
and there was a really strong health education
42:49
push, push for what was called universal
42:51
precautions, which is you can't tell
42:53
from looking at somebody whether they have a virus
42:56
or not. You have to assume that everybody
42:58
is possibly going to
43:01
expose you. And it's the same thing
43:03
now right like we cannot make moral
43:05
judgments. I told you I was going to get
43:07
on the soapbox. I'm sorry, but
43:10
to I guess the short version
43:12
of that messages it
43:14
would be so great if we could learn from
43:17
history, learned from other countries,
43:19
learned from each other, take care of each other.
43:22
And when we don't have
43:24
that shared philosophy of we have
43:26
the rhetoric that says we're all in this together, but
43:28
we don't have the behavior that goes along
43:30
with it, we need that behavior.
43:32
We need to actually be in it together
43:34
and be in it for each other, not just for
43:36
ourselves. Absolutely, and
43:39
I think, uh, it is important to note
43:41
that a great leader not
43:43
only hires or
43:45
has people joined their team so
43:48
that they can turn to
43:50
them for wisdom in the in the fields
43:52
in which those people are experts. But
43:55
a great leader also listens when those experts
43:57
acknowledge that something is wrong. I'm
44:00
gonna leave that at that, okay with you, Karen,
44:02
you mentioned your social worker, you also
44:04
are a therapist and even
44:06
just a great friend with a lot of knowledge. You're
44:09
seeing this effect that's that's every day.
44:11
What are you seeing that that maybe
44:14
isn't getting you know, broadcasted
44:16
out on on every news station in the media.
44:18
What are you seeing as a therapist the effects
44:21
that it's taking on on individuals. So
44:24
a couple of things. That's such a good question. One of
44:26
the things I'm seeing is people's
44:30
I mentioned earlier about this kind of day
44:32
to day trauma is
44:35
um that people need the
44:37
tools and practices to
44:40
manage the kind of uncertainty
44:43
and fear that we're living in. So like
44:45
the nature of my work with people has changed
44:48
somewhat to incorporate more
44:50
of relaxation techniques
44:52
and stress reduction. And I
44:55
tell people to go hug trees a
44:58
lot, because we have
45:00
a human need. We have this thing
45:02
called skin hunger right there, are people
45:05
who have not touched another human being
45:07
for six months. Nobody has hugged them for
45:09
six months, nobody has held their hand
45:11
for six months. Trees
45:14
do not have coronavirus. Grass
45:16
does not have coronavirus. Go
45:19
hug a tree. And
45:22
now I sound like a crazy tree hugging
45:24
Californian, but I literally
45:27
have a group text thread with three
45:29
of my colleagues and we take pictures
45:31
of our crazy ass is hugging trees and send
45:33
them to each other. I was gonna say, you're
45:35
you're San Francisco is showing,
45:39
but you know what it's like desperate
45:42
times. Absolutely.
45:45
I mean, look as as somebody. I didn't see my
45:47
family for the first three
45:49
months of the pandemic and then
45:52
I didn't see my family again until
45:54
two weeks ago. So I
45:57
I absolutely get it in the hugging.
46:00
You know, Luckily I have my girlfriend who I
46:02
can who I can hug, and I can hold and and
46:04
we've been quarantined for quite a
46:06
bit, uh together. Um,
46:08
So there's a lot of people who don't have that,
46:11
And and that's the thing is is there's I
46:13
want to be very very clear that
46:16
I do not view
46:19
my situation as the worst situation.
46:21
I know, there are so many worst situations
46:23
going on. Even talking with Mackenzie, my one of
46:25
my best friends, I acknowledge
46:28
that I am so in your words,
46:30
Karen Covid good, I am so Covid
46:33
lucky that any that none of my direct
46:35
family has contracted
46:37
the virus, that none of I haven't had to
46:39
deal with family
46:42
loss the way that Mackenzie has
46:44
are the way that so many other Americans and so
46:46
many other human beings have had
46:48
to deal with. You know, but there is
46:50
still a lot of of
46:53
of atrophy two that's
46:56
that's going on as just human beings.
46:58
I think one of the biggest ones is like the fear to
47:00
go outside. When when Los Angeles
47:03
opened up again, I was invited
47:05
to so many hangouts and I
47:07
thought, yeah, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. And as
47:09
as I was getting ready to leave to go to these barbecues
47:12
at these parties, I literally like
47:14
I couldn't I could not go. I got
47:16
I got so afraid that I just stayed inside.
47:19
Do you think a lot of people are going to experience, you
47:21
know, agoraphobic um thoughts
47:24
or become a little bit more homebound
47:27
because of this traumatic experience, and if
47:29
you think so, you're shaking your head. Yes. So I want to then
47:31
direct the question to a new question, what
47:34
are steps that that we as human beings can
47:36
take to avoid this? You
47:38
know, one of the things I think that's helpful is
47:41
to It's been helpful
47:43
for me personally, is to check
47:45
in with myself, like what what do
47:48
what do I care about, and what are the steps
47:50
that I need to take to take care of myself.
47:52
So not not that I don't care
47:54
about other people, but like I am
47:57
incredibly blessed to be able to work from home.
47:59
I don't take that for granted at all. And
48:02
I mostly do not go. I
48:05
have hardly seen people, and
48:07
partly because it stresses
48:10
me out. So I
48:12
need to be calm because I need to be
48:14
there to support other people all day.
48:17
And so I've been very
48:20
compassionate to myself, like
48:22
there are other people who are going to the
48:24
store, or it's I
48:26
can't I gotta go in five minutes,
48:28
I'm out, Like I'm not cruising the aisles,
48:31
I'm not like trying any new vegetables,
48:33
like none of that I'm in, I'm out, or and
48:36
so when people say
48:39
I can't go out or I'm not ready to
48:41
social distance, like to
48:44
not not judge themselves or each
48:46
other, right, Like, do you think it's a little bit you
48:48
think it's a little bit less of like try
48:50
to avoid being agoraphobic and more just
48:52
hey, let's just be patient with the people who are
48:54
dealing with those thoughts that is that, that's what you're
48:56
saying, and with ourselves, right,
48:59
like thing about that so to be able
49:01
to say now, I don't want to
49:03
take that to the other extreme, which is like
49:06
we have a friend who's going to the casino
49:09
today and when I heard
49:11
that, I flipped
49:14
out. I was like, why is she you
49:16
know? And then I was like, you know what this
49:18
is not I can't. I'm not in charge of
49:21
of her behavior. It's not in the
49:23
same city. So that's good because otherwise I
49:25
would be like, you know, you're over there
49:27
and that's it. But um,
49:31
with that piece about people being afraid to go
49:33
outside or even like when
49:35
things do improve, having
49:37
physical contact with other people is going to
49:39
be anxiety producing and scary and hard.
49:42
Um, we feed
49:45
our neighbors a lot. We have you know
49:48
about how we love to feed people, So we have some an
49:50
elderly neighbor in particular, who literally
49:52
like cannot make toast for herself, and
49:54
so I do say to
49:56
her, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but if you
49:59
don't wear a mask, I can't bring you food. That's
50:01
I mean, not that that's good, but like it
50:03
is, we have to find ways
50:05
to inspire each other. And I
50:07
think because as a country,
50:10
we historically are known for this.
50:13
You be whoever you want to be, you know, the American
50:15
dream. You can be anything you'd like, you can follow
50:17
your own rules. This is what America is. It's
50:20
kind of developed this individualistic
50:22
mindset that it's will me, but if I
50:24
need to do what's best for me. And
50:26
and I think I remember reading it in an
50:28
article earlier on in the Pandemic
50:31
where they talk about that's why America is dealing with
50:33
it in such a hard places, because all these other all these other
50:35
countries New Zealand and in Germany
50:38
and all of these countries that that have had
50:40
much less traumatic experiences
50:43
with the virus is because their whole
50:45
goal is as a country, it is
50:48
you. They act in the thought of other
50:50
people. And I think that that's something
50:52
that we're really struggling with right now. UM,
50:55
I want to put a pin in that because I don't want this
50:57
whole episode to be just a
51:00
just everything negative. There's a lot of
51:02
positive things that are coming out of this pandemic
51:04
that we need to really search for, and it takes a lot of
51:06
time to search for. Um. You know, for me personally,
51:09
I got to focus a lot more on my own health,
51:11
on my own mental health. I don't
51:13
really say this much because I think it's still
51:15
something pretty sensitive to me. But I've
51:18
started for the first time my whole life.
51:20
I've probably needed it for a long time. I
51:22
started seeing a therapist, you know. I
51:25
I I helped build a garden
51:27
in the backyard. So many things that are positive.
51:29
You started your your cooking with with Janna,
51:31
and I'm sure that you and Janna get to spend even more
51:34
time together. That's a big thing is a lot of people
51:36
are reconnecting with their their
51:38
nuclear families. That a lot of fathers
51:41
don't have as much time to be fathers. Uh.
51:44
You know, we we have a very
51:46
mutual close friends slash family member
51:48
who is getting to be more of a father right
51:50
now, and get getting to love that and feel
51:53
that you know we have we have so many
51:55
positive things. Um,
51:57
what are other positive things that you're feeling that people
52:00
can look for, Because I know that there are a lot of people who don't
52:02
feel those things, but they're there. And
52:04
I think that would be important right now to give some advice
52:07
to the listener who feels like there
52:09
is nothing positive coming out of this pandemic
52:12
for me. What are some some other
52:14
options that that maybe they can help see
52:16
if those fit their lives. That's a
52:18
great question. And one of the things I see
52:21
that's connected to this question about what
52:23
are the strengths and resources and the positivity
52:26
is that coronavirus
52:28
has pulled back the
52:30
veil, so to speak. That there's whatever
52:33
has been under the surface is
52:35
now at the top and exposed,
52:37
and some of that is painful and terrible,
52:40
and some of it is beautiful and
52:42
amazing, and that there's an invitation
52:44
to actually be more
52:47
authentic human beings with each other.
52:49
Um, to claim your joy. Like
52:52
I watched Muppets Now last week
52:54
on Disney Plus and I
52:57
laughed my head off for two hours, and
52:59
I was like, I am claiming my joy
53:01
in this moment because I don't know how I'm going to feel in
53:03
five minutes or five hours or whatever,
53:06
but claiming your joy.
53:09
Um. And I'm thinking
53:12
of things and sharing ideas with each
53:14
other about what are the things that help
53:17
you to have a break, to relax
53:20
to um. Okay, true story.
53:23
The other day, I was feeling really down
53:25
with all of this because remember that this is what I
53:27
talked to people about every day, all day.
53:29
And I was in the kitchen and I just felt really
53:32
blue, and literally my
53:34
iPhone switched on
53:37
and your song without You came on,
53:39
like like my phone knew, like I
53:42
could not make this up. And
53:44
I had my ear PUDs in because I
53:46
was waiting for a phone call, and so I just started dancing
53:48
around the kitchen. I
53:52
love that for more reasons than just because I
53:55
think it's so that's so important and so crucial.
53:58
And I would even go so far to say that
54:01
my advice would be be selfish
54:03
to a degree, but that degree
54:05
is a really high degree. I would say, be as
54:08
selfish as you need to be,
54:10
as long as you are not
54:12
breaking the stay at home
54:15
you know, social distancing rules.
54:17
I know that so many people who are like I've been
54:19
texting people and I've gotten responses back that are
54:21
like, hey, thanks for texting me. I'm
54:24
not talking to anybody right now, and
54:26
that's okay. You know. One of
54:28
the biggest things that I think I've also been
54:31
understanding recently is acknowledging
54:33
that everybody is going through this right
54:35
now. Everybody is going
54:37
through this right now. Everybody has the same
54:39
cast of characters, the same um
54:43
uh you know, the same scenery around
54:45
them. It is just completely warped, and
54:48
everybody's dealing with that. Just
54:50
as much as a father gets to be a father, the
54:53
father is also dealing with the stresses of
54:55
being a father, not just the fun times of playing
54:57
catch and having fun and playing games. They're also
54:59
deal with tantrums. They're dealing with
55:02
you know, they're dealing with the stresses. And
55:04
some of us are still working. By the way, Karen,
55:06
I know you work almost every single day since
55:08
the pandemic started. I've worked almost every
55:10
single day since the pandemic started. Mackenzie.
55:13
When the pandemic first started, you were working, uh,
55:15
day and day out, still on your six hour
55:18
weeks. Catherine, who's doing this. We've been
55:20
working on this podcast this whole time, so Catherine
55:22
has been working. I think it is so important
55:24
for us to be as selfish as we can
55:27
while following the pandemic you know, quarantine
55:30
kind of base rules, and
55:33
also while acknowledging and
55:35
accepting and respecting that every
55:37
other human being is allowed to be
55:39
that same level of selfish.
55:42
And now we we so need another word
55:44
in our vocabulary that means
55:47
prioritizing your own needs
55:49
selfish, but a new word for self
55:52
right exactly if anybody has ideas for other
55:54
words, like let us know, or
55:56
maybe we should just reclaim selfishness,
55:58
like selfishness is okay total and
56:00
then we come up with a new you know, like
56:03
we say, hey, there's there's selfishness, and
56:05
then there's like thoughtless selfishness, you know what
56:07
I mean, or something like that. I don't know, but I agree with you because
56:09
I think selfishness has a bad connotation
56:11
to it that isn't necessarily true. Um.
56:13
I was thinking about what you were saying about family
56:16
earlier, and I was thinking for
56:18
those of us who are close to our families
56:20
and we're geographically separated, like I
56:23
haven't seen my family in almost a year,
56:25
and it is heartbreaking for me.
56:28
There are also some people who
56:30
do not get along with their families. Who are
56:32
in abusive families or
56:35
addicted families who are stuck in the house
56:37
with those people. So it's
56:40
recognizing that there are so many different kinds
56:42
of human suffering going on right now
56:45
and um and that
56:47
there is no um competition
56:50
for who has it worse. There are definitely
56:52
people who for economic reasons,
56:55
etcetera, who have it worse for
56:57
sure, But UM,
57:00
I know there are people who are stuck at home
57:02
in an abusive relationship, or
57:04
who are two parents who
57:07
are both working and who are now having
57:09
to have their kids doing school at
57:11
home. Like it is hard for
57:13
everybody right now. I would love
57:15
to close out this this um
57:18
section of this episode with your
57:20
advice for somebody who's in a
57:22
situation and now, because
57:24
of the pandemic, is locked into a
57:26
situation that is not necessarily
57:29
healthy for them. Do you have any advice for that? Tell
57:31
somebody, Talk
57:34
to somebody, Tell somebody,
57:36
even if you don't have any practical
57:38
options right now, but somebody
57:41
that you can confide it. I don't care if it's a
57:43
one eight hundred toll free number
57:45
or if it's a clergy
57:47
person or a therapist. There's tons of
57:49
free mental health services right now. So
57:51
you don't have to be emotionally alone
57:53
in it. Tell somebody that
57:56
is coming directly from a therapist, and I
57:58
am going to use my name to back that up.
58:00
If you are dealing with whatever you're dealing
58:03
with, you know it could be anything from mental health,
58:05
it could be physical health. It could be
58:07
dealing with family or friends, dealing with abusive
58:09
situations or or
58:11
circumstances. Please go
58:15
and and reach out for help, even if it's
58:17
d M N ME. I will be I've been checking.
58:19
I've been so vigilant about looking at my d M
58:21
S. Please do not deal
58:24
with this by yourself. You don't have to, and
58:26
and nobody wants you to. We want
58:29
you to get the help you need here, especially
58:31
at let's get into it. So um, I'm
58:33
going to close out this break by saying, if you
58:35
need help, go and get that help.
58:38
We're gonna be back in just a bit and we're gonna be talking
58:40
about what we can do now. And
58:42
you'd be surprised by some of these answers, So don't
58:44
go anywhere. All
58:46
right, we are back. This is let's get into it. And
58:49
it's been a heavy episode, Oh my gosh, like
58:51
I've needed to have like some real breathing
58:53
breaks to to kind of re
58:56
gather myself together. We had an
58:58
amazing conversation with Mackenzie. You're here now,
59:01
UM, so thank you you and Karen. I want
59:03
to thank both of you guys for your openness, your vulnerability,
59:06
and your um your willingness to
59:08
just to just share your
59:10
real thoughts and feelings. Um,
59:13
it's been heavy, but like a good heavy, like I want to I want
59:15
to clarify it's not like a bad heavy like it's
59:17
It is just it's a topic that needs to
59:19
be talked about and we need to address it. The
59:21
first thing that I want to talk about is don't
59:23
do anything nothing. This
59:26
is a vacation, you know, stay at home,
59:29
don't go out if you don't need to wear your
59:31
mask, which not only protects
59:33
you but protects other people, wash your
59:35
hands, all of those things. Guys,
59:37
why do you feel like this is so hard for some people?
59:40
I mean, I know, don't get me wrong, I'm I I am.
59:42
That's me. Also the guy
59:44
about forty minutes ago saying I
59:47
need to see my family, but I haven't had
59:49
any issues, you know, and and I
59:51
want to try and understand. Why
59:53
do you guys feel like some people aren't getting
59:56
that some people. I think it's
59:58
definitely a some
1:00:00
people. For some people, it's an emotional thing. For
1:00:03
some people, it's a selfish
1:00:05
thing where they just don't care because they don't
1:00:07
believe in the virus. They don't think it's
1:00:09
real, and they're
1:00:11
gonna do whatever they want. I think it's it's
1:00:14
different for it's
1:00:16
different for everyone. I wish,
1:00:19
I wish it was a
1:00:21
thing where everyone's doing their part, but that's just not
1:00:23
what it is. And I think we just have to continue to
1:00:25
like share our stories. Karen,
1:00:27
what are your thoughts about that? Because I feel like
1:00:30
it's this mix of like I I even
1:00:32
after just saying like stay at home, I'm
1:00:34
acknowledging everybody's dealing with
1:00:36
a new pandemic right now and new everybody's
1:00:39
dealing with the pandemic as it is to
1:00:41
them. But can't we all just
1:00:43
listen to what's going on and acknowledge
1:00:46
that if we and if any of us want things
1:00:48
to change, we have to stay
1:00:50
home. We have to stop let it. You know, looking
1:00:53
at New Zealand, New Zealand had a hundred
1:00:55
days of no cases as
1:00:58
a country before ultimately
1:01:00
they caught one on thing. It was like the hundred and second
1:01:03
day, which was sad to see. But we're
1:01:05
looking at other people doing it right. What about
1:01:07
America is not clicking
1:01:10
that same way? I want
1:01:12
to answer from the positive.
1:01:15
Share your coping strategies with each
1:01:17
other. Be creative with each other.
1:01:20
This is hard for everybody, and like
1:01:22
but just being being like, well, I
1:01:24
don't feel like it's like that's not no, that
1:01:27
is not okay. Right, I asked somebody
1:01:29
like how or what is helping you get
1:01:31
through? Let's share our ideas with each other
1:01:33
because people are being amazingly
1:01:36
creative and it is hard. M
1:01:38
absolutely, and I want to clarify
1:01:40
this with this second tip that I have about
1:01:43
what to do right now. It's not about
1:01:46
not leaving ever,
1:01:48
it is not about staying locked in and go if you
1:01:50
we all have to go the grocery store at some point, we all
1:01:52
have to shop for things. If you feel
1:01:54
like you need to go out and see somebody,
1:01:57
this is my tip number two. Hang
1:01:59
out outside hid and hang out at a distance.
1:02:02
Mackenzie, like I've mentioned, has come to my house many
1:02:04
times. She's even come around the gate to the backyard
1:02:07
and we'll sit on the grass at least six
1:02:09
ft apart. I swear we do like twenty five ft
1:02:11
even, and we just say it's six because we're like the uber
1:02:14
or ubers careful. I
1:02:16
have a New York Times article right here about
1:02:19
school outside. They said that
1:02:21
they did a study of seven thousand
1:02:23
coronavirus cases and only one
1:02:25
of those transmissions happened outdoors.
1:02:28
So if you do need to go out, or
1:02:30
if you do need to get some air, I I totally
1:02:33
understand, do it from a
1:02:35
distance, do it from you
1:02:37
know, and and do it outside. Do
1:02:39
it in a space where you don't
1:02:41
feel like you're necessary you know, or do
1:02:43
or do what Karen said, hug a tree,
1:02:45
go out, you know, enjoy nature, go
1:02:48
on a walk, go on a hike, a socially distance
1:02:50
hike or or or uh you
1:02:52
know, drive to the coast and sit. If
1:02:55
you live, if you live near the oceans, like doing
1:02:57
those things feel um, make
1:03:00
life feel a little bit more normal. And that, to me
1:03:02
is is what is the biggest piece
1:03:05
of it for me, is like, do doing things that make
1:03:07
life feel a little bit more normal. If
1:03:10
you feel safer and calmer,
1:03:13
socially, visiting with people on zoom
1:03:15
and you'd rather be outside by
1:03:17
yourself. Do that. If
1:03:19
you are somebody who finds that your
1:03:21
calmer social distance visiting with
1:03:24
people outside, then do that. Um
1:03:27
not. I don't like doing being outside,
1:03:29
like doing social distancing walks, because
1:03:32
every time somebody drifts a little closer it stresses
1:03:34
me out. So I will I will hang out
1:03:36
with you, I'll have cocktail hour on Zoom. But I'm
1:03:38
gonna walk at the beach by myself. And
1:03:41
that's smart, it's healthy. I
1:03:43
want to turn. I want to turn the page a little
1:03:45
bit into the next the next tip, which
1:03:47
has nothing to do with staying home or
1:03:50
what you do for yourself. Um this one's
1:03:52
actually for other people, reaching out to
1:03:54
other people who are hurting. It's
1:03:56
been a big thing for me to acknowledge that as
1:03:58
stressful as my life Phiz and how
1:04:01
my life has been the last six months, I
1:04:04
have to acknowledge that everybody else
1:04:06
is dealing with it in
1:04:09
the same way that I'm dealing with it, but with their
1:04:11
own stresses and their own unique
1:04:13
struggles, and their own unique cast
1:04:15
of characters and their own unique scenery.
1:04:18
I think it's so important, And Mackenzie, you've done
1:04:20
such a great job. Um, what are your thoughts
1:04:22
on, especially as somebody who who
1:04:25
has dealt with a lot this pandemic.
1:04:27
How important to you do you think it is to
1:04:30
reach out to people that you know are hurting and
1:04:32
having people reach out to you when you're hurting.
1:04:35
Oh, it's it's very important. I've
1:04:38
that's actually been something that's helped me
1:04:40
in a way. Um.
1:04:43
I'm just someone who naturally feels better when I'm
1:04:45
helping someone, and I think I stated that earlier,
1:04:47
but I know how difficult
1:04:50
it's been for me. I know the some of
1:04:52
those bad days are horrible and
1:04:54
then the good ones are great, and
1:04:56
trying to bounce those can be so
1:04:59
you can feel so alone, and I know how that
1:05:01
feels, and it hurts. So I'm like, I don't
1:05:03
want anyone else feel like feeling that way, but
1:05:05
I know people are so regardless
1:05:07
of how shitty of a day I'm having,
1:05:09
I still make it a point to reach
1:05:12
out to the people that I know are struggling, even
1:05:14
people that I don't know if they're struggling. I was like,
1:05:16
hey, like, I hope you're
1:05:18
doing okay. Is there anything I can do for you
1:05:20
if you need to call me? And we just need a chat
1:05:23
about what's going on in the world or
1:05:26
other things to get your mind off of it. Let's
1:05:28
do it. And I also like try
1:05:31
to help you because everyone struggles with it differently.
1:05:33
Like I've told myself, like I'm
1:05:36
alone, this is hard, but
1:05:39
it's also important to like spend time
1:05:41
with yourself. It's so important
1:05:43
to be alone with yourself and truly feel
1:05:47
the emotions and learn who you are and
1:05:49
learn how you can handle things alone, even though
1:05:51
it's hard. Doing that has
1:05:54
motivated me more to reach out to people.
1:05:56
And I know I've come to you crying
1:05:58
and upset and struggling
1:06:00
with the fact of being away from my family. But through
1:06:03
all of this and how hard it's been, I've grown
1:06:06
so much since March within myself,
1:06:08
even though I'm still a mess sometimes, but
1:06:11
I can recognize any
1:06:13
negative things are positive things about myself
1:06:15
and trying to trying
1:06:18
to share me with other people and make
1:06:20
sure they're okay and give them
1:06:23
ways that have helped me. So it's
1:06:25
it's so important to reach out to people, and
1:06:28
having people reach out to you goes a long
1:06:30
way. Even someone just saying, hey, how are you doing hi?
1:06:32
That could set my crappy
1:06:34
day to like something so great when you're feeling
1:06:37
alone. So I love
1:06:39
that. I love that. I have one last thing on
1:06:41
my list before I ask you
1:06:43
guys if you have anything for any
1:06:45
advice for other things that people can do during
1:06:47
this pandemic. But my last one is pretty
1:06:49
big vote. We
1:06:51
are in an election year right now, and
1:06:54
this election to me, uh
1:06:56
and I think to a lot of people is imperative
1:07:00
depending on the outcome. You know, we need
1:07:04
we need to choose
1:07:06
the right person this
1:07:08
time around. We always need to every
1:07:10
action, we need to choose the right person. This
1:07:13
time it is it
1:07:15
could be the livelihood
1:07:17
of our of our freedoms, It could be the livelihood
1:07:20
of our country as we know it, especially
1:07:24
with this pandemic. You know, I think you need to take
1:07:26
in um every little
1:07:29
ounce of the last
1:07:31
four years and acknowledge where
1:07:34
we could have done better, where we are
1:07:36
doing fine, where we are doing well
1:07:38
even at and acknowledge
1:07:40
who we think. Uh. And you know,
1:07:43
I would never I'm never going to force the listener
1:07:45
or the people who are here with me, um
1:07:47
to choose, you know, to
1:07:49
vote for the person that I'm voting for. But I do
1:07:51
think it is very important that
1:07:53
we educate
1:07:55
ourselves a lot about
1:07:58
what happened with this pandemic, what's
1:08:00
happened with this civil rights movement
1:08:02
that's going on right now, in the ways that
1:08:05
each of these candidates have reacted
1:08:08
in the wake of those things. UM,
1:08:10
I'm trying to stay as neutral
1:08:12
as I can, because there are some
1:08:15
thoughts and feelings that I feel that I keep
1:08:17
to myself. Karen as
1:08:19
somebody who's also got a lot of thoughts and feelings
1:08:21
that we're going to try to keep to ourselves. Do
1:08:23
you have anything to add to that, UM,
1:08:26
I totally agree with you. Take
1:08:28
action, UM,
1:08:31
and take action in
1:08:33
the service of what you care about. Right
1:08:36
like we people
1:08:38
have fought put their
1:08:41
lives on the line for the right
1:08:43
to vote. Is the system perfect? No?
1:08:45
Is it broken? Absolutely? This is
1:08:48
what we have right now. I have friends
1:08:50
who have already volunteered to be
1:08:52
UM observers and at
1:08:55
the polling places so
1:08:58
that they can make sure that what is supposed
1:09:00
to happen at the polling places is going to happen
1:09:02
on election day. And it's not only
1:09:04
about voting for the highest
1:09:07
office in the country, but it's local voting
1:09:09
also, Like every how different governors
1:09:11
and different mayors have responded, different
1:09:14
congress people have responded to this pandemic.
1:09:17
So so often
1:09:19
we feel like the system is broken,
1:09:21
which it definitely is broken, and
1:09:24
at the same time like, let's do
1:09:26
everything we can, everything
1:09:29
we can, including voting, to
1:09:31
get ourselves moving in the direction
1:09:34
that is about taking care of everybody.
1:09:37
I love that. I guess the last
1:09:39
thing I would say is similar
1:09:41
to something Mackenzie said earlier, actually about
1:09:44
grief and self care, which is having
1:09:47
something that you do every day
1:09:49
that is about being an activist,
1:09:52
right whether it's recycling a bottle
1:09:55
or helping somebody
1:09:57
who's never voted before registered to vote,
1:10:00
or volunteering somewhere or making
1:10:02
food for somebody, or like every
1:10:05
little thing actually does make a difference.
1:10:07
I love that. I love that. I think that's actually a great
1:10:09
way to close the show out. Um,
1:10:12
thank you so much both of you. Again, I said
1:10:14
it before, but I want to say it again. Thank you for being
1:10:18
vulnerable and being open and telling
1:10:20
your story. I think a lot of people are
1:10:23
so used to their own stories right now that
1:10:25
it's important for us to to educate
1:10:28
ourselves on other people's stories, on other people's
1:10:30
experiences with this pandemic. So thank you
1:10:32
both, and it is my favorite time of the
1:10:34
show. Time for some not so
1:10:36
shameless promo. Um,
1:10:39
Karen, you're a pro at this not so shameless
1:10:41
promo. So I want you to plug, um,
1:10:43
whatever you want, whether it be your social media,
1:10:45
I want you to plug what you're doing and work. If you're
1:10:48
looking for some work, I know, if hey, if you're a movie,
1:10:50
if you're working in pre or
1:10:52
post or just regular production on
1:10:54
a movie, I know my girl Mackenzie
1:10:57
is always is always looking for some more money.
1:11:00
Um, So, Karen, why don't you show Mackenzie how a little
1:11:02
bit of not so shameless promo works. You
1:11:05
can find me on Instagram
1:11:07
and Twitter at k e Replenish
1:11:09
or just go to my website Karen Earl Comman
1:11:11
dot com. You get it, but you
1:11:14
get it. You got one for us. Okay,
1:11:16
y'all can find me on
1:11:19
Instagram and Twitter at McKenzie Moseley.
1:11:21
Um can't follow
1:11:24
me. I try to spread joy and light through
1:11:26
all that. Yes, if you are looking for anyone
1:11:28
in production, our post hits your girl up. She's
1:11:31
funny as hell. She's funny as hell. She's really If you
1:11:33
like, if you like my jokes and my humor.
1:11:35
You'll you'll really love Mackenzie. Um,
1:11:37
thank you so much for listening to this episode.
1:11:39
You know you can always find me at alex Iono
1:11:42
everywhere. It's the best part about having last name
1:11:44
that is not normal ai O
1:11:46
n oh, thank you so much for listening
1:11:48
to this podcast. We're we're well
1:11:50
into this podcast and uh
1:11:53
and it's getting more and more fun.
1:11:55
And I'm loving seeing your responses
1:11:57
on what other topics you want me to talk about
1:12:00
on this podcast, so please continue
1:12:02
doing that. If you have the time, please rate
1:12:04
our podcast and subscribe. That is how
1:12:06
we grow. Uh and and thank you
1:12:08
so much for just for just continuing to
1:12:10
listen and and trying to make the world a
1:12:12
better place. I'll talk to you next time. We
1:12:20
really want you to get the help you need, so if you
1:12:22
need help, please seek independent advice from
1:12:24
a competent healthcare or mental health professional.
1:12:27
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
1:12:29
those of the podcast author or individuals participating
1:12:32
in the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of I
1:12:34
Heart Media or its employees. This podcast should
1:12:36
not be used as medical advice, mental health advice,
1:12:38
counseling or therapy. Listening to the podcast
1:12:41
does not established dr patient relationship with
1:12:43
hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into
1:12:45
It or I Heart Media. No guarantee is
1:12:47
given regarding the accuracy of any statements
1:12:49
or opinions made on this podcast. Well,
1:12:51
if that's a doozy
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