0:00

The holidays start here at Kroger with a

0:02

variety of options to celebrate traditions old

0:04

and new. You could do a classic

0:06

herb roasted turkey or spice it up

0:08

and make turkey tacos. Serve

0:11

up a go-to shrimp cocktail or

0:13

use Simple Truth wild-caught shrimp for

0:15

your first Cajun risotto. Make creamy

0:17

mac and cheese or a spinach

0:19

artichoke fondue from our selection of

0:21

Murray's cheese. No matter how

0:23

you shop, Kroger has all the freshest ingredients

0:25

to embrace all your holiday traditions. Kroger,

0:28

fresh for everyone. I

0:33

have heard it said that the greatest

0:35

loss a human being can experience is

0:37

the loss of a child. This

0:40

is true. The person

0:42

you were before, you will never

0:45

be again. It

0:47

doesn't just change you, it demolishes

0:50

you. The rest

0:52

of your life is spent on another level.

0:55

The level of those who

0:57

have lost a child. My

1:01

mom said that a few years before she died

1:03

and for her it was true. She

1:06

was demolished by my brother's death and

1:08

she felt the pain of it every day. But

1:11

she was able to feel other things as well. Love

1:14

and joy, fulfillment. She

1:17

didn't just survive, she lived for 31

1:19

years after my brother's death. She

1:22

worked, she painted, she wrote books. And

1:25

she was able to do all that because she could

1:27

talk about my brother's death and about him. And

1:30

she could do it without the quaver in her voice,

1:32

the sense of vertigo that I still get when talking

1:34

about what happened. There

1:38

was a loss, however, my mom didn't talk about. Something

1:41

I only learned decades after my brother's death.

1:45

My mom had lost another child, one I

1:47

never knew about. She'd had

1:49

a miscarriage, I think it was in 1965

1:51

after my brother was born and before I

1:53

came along. When

1:55

I did finally ask her about it, she didn't

1:57

say much and I didn't want to press. It's

2:01

interesting to me that my mom, who rarely

2:03

spared me the details of any aspect of

2:05

her life, had kept her miscarriage

2:07

hidden. I was never sure

2:10

why, but then I listened to the voicemail messages

2:12

from the end of last season, and

2:14

so many of you spoke of the babies you

2:16

lost and society's silence surrounding

2:18

it, the friends and family who

2:21

didn't know what to say or said

2:23

nothing at all. Thirty-five years

2:25

ago, I lost my only

2:27

child. My name is Catherine. I

2:30

lost a pregnancy at 12 weeks, and

2:32

the grief astounded me. I

2:35

didn't think I was allowed to grieve. My

2:37

husband and I lost our first

2:39

baby, our six-month pregnant. Lost

2:41

my second child to a

2:43

really rare genetic condition. Society

2:46

was telling me, it's

2:48

just a miscarriage. Just get over it.

2:50

I will never get over it. I

2:52

just have to get on with it. Get on with the

2:54

living. My mom must have

2:56

felt that pressure as well back in 1965 when

2:59

she had her miscarriage. One

3:01

caller pointed out to me that the idea

3:04

of a parent losing a child is so

3:06

unspeakable no word in English has been invented

3:08

to describe it. We have

3:10

words like orphan and widow, but nothing for

3:12

a mother or father whose child has died.

3:16

Making the loss of a child this kind of taboo

3:18

subject where you don't talk about the person, you don't

3:21

bring them up, I actually think that that

3:23

can make living with it more difficult to

3:26

understand. My grief is

3:28

useful to other people who

3:31

are in grief, and their grief is

3:33

useful to me. It's sort of like driving

3:36

in a white-out snowstorm. If

3:38

you see that there are headlights

3:40

in front of you, it helps

3:43

you feel like

3:46

there's a path that you are

3:48

on, and there is space to

3:50

move forward. That

3:52

is what all of us are looking for, isn't

3:54

it? A space to move forward.

3:57

This is all there is with me, Anderson

4:00

Coon. We'll be right back. All

4:08

There Is with Anderson Cooper is supported

4:10

by Evernorth Health Services. Grief

4:13

is a human experience. Shouldn't

4:15

the care we receive feel human too? That's

4:18

why Evernorth Behavioral Health ensures all

4:20

members have access to live, specialized

4:22

support anytime, in person or virtually,

4:24

with a 100% follow-up commitment to

4:26

make sure that they get the

4:28

help that they need. So

4:31

no matter what stage of grief your employees

4:33

may be in, there's always a person ready

4:35

to listen. Stressful times can

4:37

lead many to bottle up complex feelings,

4:39

especially at work. 59%

4:42

of those suffering say nothing. This

4:44

can have unexpected and serious mental

4:46

and physical health implications. And with

4:48

Evernorth's data-driven risk monitoring tools, they

4:50

can help spot challenges early and

4:52

step in to guide individuals to

4:55

care before they undergo any more

4:57

suffering. Each person's grief is

4:59

as unique as they are, which is

5:01

why Evernorth offers a wide range of

5:03

personalized behavioral solutions to meet the needs

5:05

of every member that they serve. Learn

5:09

more at evernorth.com/grief

5:11

support. This episode is brought

5:13

to you by Meta for Work. It's

5:15

not just sci-fi anymore. Virtual and

5:17

mixed reality are transforming how business works.

5:20

Architects can use mixed reality to walk through buildings that

5:22

aren't even built yet. People from around the world can

5:24

meet up in more immersive ways, working shoulder

5:26

to shoulder in virtual spaces to get

5:28

real work done. And all sorts of

5:31

professionals are getting hands-on training in safer,

5:33

more cost-effective virtual environments. Meta

5:35

for Work. Work smarter, closer,

5:38

safer, together. Visit forwork.meta.com

5:40

to learn more. Welcome

5:44

back to All There Is. My guest

5:46

for this episode is Katie Tallman. She

5:49

lives in Texas and left me a voicemail

5:51

last year about her daughter, Everly. I'm

5:53

going to play part of that message now and

5:55

then talk with her. I lost

5:58

my daughter Everly a few years ago. I

6:00

was pregnant with her and

6:02

I found out that it

6:04

was very likely that she wasn't going to

6:06

make it. I had a choice and

6:11

I chose to

6:13

roll the dice. She was my

6:15

first baby and I wanted her to

6:17

leave half. I really was

6:19

stillborn, but throughout the pregnancy

6:21

I'd prepared myself as much as possible. But

6:23

what I learned is that nothing, absolutely

6:26

nothing, could have prepared me to

6:28

deliver a stillborn baby. To holding

6:30

a baby that comes out and

6:32

didn't cry. I

6:34

couldn't have been prepared for

6:37

how loud the silence was in that

6:39

room. Nothing could have prepared

6:41

me for the overwhelming feeling like I needed

6:43

to run somehow to the other side of

6:45

the world to go find her. What

6:48

was this a year ago or more

6:50

that you left that message? Do you feel different than

6:53

that person today? I

6:55

do and I don't. Because

6:59

as you know it's not a linear

7:01

thing. Just listening to that voicemail,

7:03

it sometimes doesn't feel like it's me. I

7:05

think I still am taking

7:07

in my story and

7:10

understanding it and getting

7:12

through it. At what age did you

7:14

know you wanted to be a mom? I

7:16

remember in fourth grade our

7:19

teacher asking what we

7:21

wanted to be when we grow up and I said a

7:23

mom. I remember

7:25

people laughed at me. But

7:28

it's what I always wanted. It

7:32

is my heart's desire to bring

7:35

children into this world and I've always wanted a

7:37

little girl. I was 28

7:40

years old when I got pregnant. We were

7:42

pregnant with twins. There was

7:45

baby A and baby B and they just named

7:47

them just off of location in

7:49

the womb. Then at nine weeks we found

7:51

out that baby B had died. My

7:54

miscarriage is called Vanishing

7:56

Twin Syndrome where your body

7:59

absorbs it. So I had

8:01

no cramping, I had no bleeding. It's

8:04

just, I was told one day I was having

8:06

twins, and I was told another day I wasn't.

8:08

And then a few weeks later, 12 weeks, we

8:11

went to see the maternal fetal medicine specialist.

8:15

And I had no idea what was

8:17

about to happen. The

8:23

sonographer got really

8:26

quiet. They found

8:28

fluid behind her neck. Instantly,

8:31

the mood in the room changed.

8:33

The air changed. They

8:35

took the sample from my placenta and tested

8:37

it, and they let me

8:39

know that my baby had Turner

8:41

syndrome. Her second X chromosome was

8:45

missing, and I would

8:47

likely miscarry. Most

8:49

babies that are diagnosed with Turner

8:51

syndrome die within the first trimester.

8:55

So I expected that. Everly made it a

8:57

lot longer. She made it until she was

8:59

23 weeks and three days. What

9:02

was your decision-making process when

9:04

you heard the news? There's a

9:06

1% survival rate for babies with

9:09

Turner syndrome. I started

9:11

to try to rationalize in my

9:13

head that, well, maybe the statistics

9:15

are wrong. I chose to keep

9:17

going. I wanted to see it

9:20

through, but it was really hard.

9:22

Every single appointment, her swelling increased,

9:25

and it was impacting her organs. She

9:28

wasn't doing what a baby is

9:30

supposed to do, like grow.

9:35

I never got to feel her because she

9:37

couldn't move. Her kicks weren't

9:39

strong enough for me to feel her. You

9:42

and your husband bought a Doppler machine so

9:44

you could hear her heartbeat. Mm-hmm.

9:47

Yes. That's the best thing we did. We

9:51

started doing it every single day as a

9:53

good morning and a good night. This

9:55

is the sound they heard. It's

9:59

everly. I have every single one recorded. I

10:05

have them all. And

10:07

I have the last one too. We

10:09

were really lucky to have that at our disposal

10:12

and use it all the time. Is

10:14

that how you learned that her heart had stopped? Yeah.

10:21

We had just been to

10:23

our 22-week appointment, and it

10:26

was devastating. This

10:28

was the appointment that

10:30

made me drive to cemeteries to try

10:32

to find the right place for her.

10:35

You actually had to go to

10:37

funeral homes and cemeteries while

10:40

you were carrying a family. Yeah,

10:42

I did. And I went by myself.

10:46

Tyler, my husband, couldn't do it. He

10:48

just couldn't do it. So I

10:51

went to three different places because

10:54

I knew that when

10:56

a baby dies and you are

10:59

at the hospital, before you leave, you

11:01

have to know where the body is going to be

11:03

sent. So I

11:05

needed to research that, and I needed

11:07

it to be perfect. So

11:10

that was hard talking to the

11:13

funeral directors that are trying to sell

11:15

you something, and you still have

11:17

a living baby inside of you, but

11:19

you're looking for their home. Just

11:22

awful. So

11:27

when we were going to bed that

11:29

night, her heart rate sounded so strong.

11:32

She sounded wonderful. My

11:35

husband and I were talking about

11:37

how proud we were of her that

11:39

night, and my husband kissed my stomach

11:42

for when he fell asleep, which

11:48

I was so happy he did. And

11:51

when we woke up the next morning

11:53

on St. Patrick's Day, I woke

11:56

up first, and that

11:59

feeling of being in the room, when the

12:01

power goes out in your house and it just

12:03

sounds different. And

12:05

we just knew, I don't

12:07

know how, we just knew. And, um,

12:11

we put it on and we

12:13

heard nothing. It

12:16

was silent and

12:19

Tyler searched and he searched. And,

12:23

and we knew we just

12:25

needed to go to labor and delivery. And

12:28

that's when I met Carol. She

12:31

is a nurse that

12:33

specializes in bereavement and she

12:35

tried and again, it was silent and we could

12:37

see her. There

12:41

was no heartbeat, the

12:45

worst words ever. There was

12:47

no heartbeat. You

12:55

talked about the loudness

12:57

of the silence in the delivery room. I

13:04

was trying

13:08

to survive. It was like I was

13:10

in somebody else's body. This was my

13:12

first experience with having

13:14

a child with a labor. And

13:17

so they give you medicine

13:19

to induce labor. And,

13:22

um, when everything started to

13:24

work and everly was

13:26

getting closer, I

13:29

absolutely panicked. You

13:31

know, I just wasn't ready for her to leave because

13:34

once she was going to be out of me, I had

13:38

very little time left. So

13:41

I was really

13:43

holding in. I was holding in so

13:46

much, so

13:48

much fear and devastation,

13:50

also holding onto a little bit of

13:52

hope that somehow everyone was wrong. And

13:54

when everly came out

13:57

of me, I grew. reamed

14:01

and let out this like

14:04

a primal moan

14:09

that was everything that I

14:12

had been holding in. And

14:14

it was then that I knew

14:17

that I had lost and that I was

14:19

wrong and that

14:21

she was never coming and it was never going to

14:23

be true. And

14:27

the room was so

14:29

silent. My

14:33

doctor was whispering. My nurse

14:35

wasn't talking. You can hear

14:37

the hustle and the bustle and the

14:39

hallway of all the

14:41

nurses and the families being wheeled around

14:44

and the babies crying. And

14:46

then my room was so dark and

14:49

empty and sterile.

14:53

It was awful. It

14:58

was awful.

15:01

But then I

15:06

don't know if you've ever had something like

15:08

a situation where you feel so much pain

15:11

and so much grief and then and almost

15:16

the next breath you feel so

15:18

much pride and joy. When

15:21

they first handed Everly to

15:23

me, I was distraught. And

15:27

then I looked at her and

15:29

I saw her features under all of her

15:32

swelling and I

15:34

was filled with

15:36

so much love for her.

15:40

And again, the pride and the

15:42

joy and this overwhelming peace came

15:44

to me. And

15:49

I think that's a God thing and

15:51

that was the biggest gift to

15:54

receive in that moment so

15:56

that I could be there

15:58

and to really... treasure

16:00

that moment that I had with her,

16:02

that very small window. I'm glad

16:06

that I was able to feel that

16:08

peace while I was there with her.

16:11

And she had felt that peace and the love from you

16:14

all of her life. Yeah, Meg,

16:18

I believe that so much. I have

16:21

to believe that. I have to believe and

16:23

know that while Everly was in me, all

16:26

she knew was love, but she was

16:28

never hungry. She was never cold.

16:31

She was never hurt. She was never

16:33

disappointed. She knew my voice. She knew her

16:36

dad's voice. She knew the songs we'd play.

16:38

She knew the light we'd shine on my

16:40

belly. She

16:42

only knew love. She

16:45

went straight from me to heaven.

16:47

She's in the best place possible.

16:52

And I have to keep telling

16:54

myself that and reminding myself

16:56

that, that even if

16:58

I was given the opportunity to

17:00

have her back, I couldn't. Sometimes

17:04

I, I mean, I need to convince

17:06

myself of that. But I

17:08

know that she is where I ultimately would

17:11

want her to be. That is what my

17:13

faith tells me is that she is whole

17:15

and restored

17:17

and happy and perfect.

17:22

And that helps. And it helps

17:24

to know that one

17:27

day I will see her

17:29

again. And you know, we'll have

17:31

that hug and embrace that, you know, I'll

17:33

never have to let go of. I'll

17:36

never have to. How

17:42

long did you stay in the hospital after

17:44

the birth? We

17:47

got to stay there overnight. Our

17:49

hospital had what's called a cuddle cot.

17:52

And it's a temperature controlled cot. So

17:55

that when you're not holding the baby, you can

17:57

put the baby down to Slow

18:00

down the deterioration. It's a

18:02

beautiful and heartbreaking thing to have.

18:05

So the cuddle cod is for

18:07

babies born stillborn. Yeah,

18:09

it's for dead babies. So

18:11

you spent the night with Everly? I

18:14

got to spend the night with her, holding her.

18:16

And I rocked her, and I sang

18:19

to her. And I

18:21

sang, you are my sunshine. And

18:23

I read her verses. And

18:27

I kissed her, and kissed her, and kissed her,

18:29

and kissed her. And

18:35

then, then they took her. And

18:40

she went that way. And

18:43

then I went the other way. And

18:45

I just don't know how I

18:47

did it just like right after

18:49

her. They

18:54

gave me a box, and it

18:56

had stupid pamphlets in it.

18:59

And on one of my discharge papers,

19:01

it said, stop taking your prenatal vitamin.

19:05

So messed up. And

19:09

so she went down the hall to

19:12

the right, and it was wheeled out to the

19:14

left. And

19:20

I regret a little

19:22

bit not spending more time with her. And

19:25

I regret not running after her. It's

19:29

just telling the person, no,

19:31

you are not taking her. And she

19:33

is nice. But

19:39

oh, god. But

19:43

I knew that I couldn't take

19:45

her home. I knew I couldn't do that. Just

19:49

as Katie said that nothing could have prepared

19:51

her to deliver a stillborn baby, she also

19:54

was not prepared for some of the responses

19:56

to Everly's death by others in her life.

20:00

You know, I found that many

20:02

of my friends weren't able to be

20:04

there for me and my

20:07

family, honestly, because it's

20:09

not something they wanted to talk about. You

20:11

know, it's unspeakable losing a baby,

20:15

delivering a dead baby and

20:17

having to bury a baby is it's

20:20

unspeakable. They

20:22

weren't comfortable with

20:24

the rawness of it. It

20:26

was too much for them. And

20:30

then also there were friends

20:32

that would try to say

20:34

something, but then what they

20:37

said hurt so much. I

20:39

don't think there's anything good

20:41

that comes from a

20:43

sentence that starts with at least, at

20:47

least you know you

20:49

can get pregnant. At least

20:51

you can have another baby. At

20:53

least it didn't go on any further. Yes,

20:55

I was happy that

20:58

I could get pregnant again, but that

21:00

did not erase Everly when I was

21:02

at a grocery store. And I remember

21:04

looking around, feeling like nobody

21:06

could see me, and I

21:08

was just screaming inside. And

21:11

really, I just wanted to talk about her. I

21:14

wanted to have permission to speak about

21:16

her because I felt like I wasn't

21:18

allowed to. I was supposed to sweep

21:21

that under the rug like it never

21:23

happened. And

21:25

it was all of

21:27

me. So friendships

21:30

changed. The dynamics of

21:32

my family changed. Some

21:35

of that was protecting myself because

21:37

I didn't want to be told to hurry

21:39

up and have another baby so I can

21:42

be grandma less than two weeks after my

21:44

baby was buried. Somebody said that to you. Yeah,

21:47

with a smile on their face. Hurry

21:49

up and have another baby so I can be grandma. Really,

21:52

all I wanted to do was just be

21:54

around people that got it, that

21:56

had been to that depth, that

21:59

pain. and that figured

22:01

out how to claw their way out of it and

22:03

survived. That's what I wanted. And

22:07

things got dark. Things got pretty

22:09

dark at times. I

22:12

wanted to kill myself. And

22:15

I almost did it whenever I was

22:17

driving. I was going to drive off the road. I

22:20

thought about the bathtub, and I went

22:23

under, and I couldn't do it. And

22:26

a lot of it was

22:28

because I was so terrified that maybe

22:31

I would be punished and I wouldn't be able to see

22:33

her again. I

22:36

just wanted to feel, I mean, I was

22:40

hurting so bad. I wanted it to stop,

22:42

and I wanted to feel something

22:44

else. And

22:46

I didn't talk about that for a long time.

22:49

I'm not ashamed, but I

22:52

guess in a way, I kind of am. It

22:54

was really overwhelming. Katie

22:56

found comfort in a WhatsApp group she was

22:58

part of with other women who'd lost a

23:00

child to Turner syndrome. Looking

23:02

back, she says she would not have made the

23:04

same choice again, to keep the

23:06

pregnancy when she learned about Everly's diagnosis.

23:09

Though she pointed out to me, she would

23:11

be forced to continue with the pregnancy under

23:14

current Texas law. What

23:16

I did the first time, it was the

23:18

choice that I made. It

23:20

was the way that I had control of this

23:25

very powerless situation, but

23:30

I could not go through it again. I

23:33

know way too much now, Anderson. I

23:37

would need to have a lot of

23:40

evidence from my doctors that this wasn't going

23:42

to play out in my favor, but

23:44

I would absolutely find a way to close

23:48

the pregnancy sooner. I can't come up with

23:50

the right way to say it, but

23:53

to spare myself and

23:56

the baby, I couldn't do it again.

24:00

She wanted to show me the box she was given

24:02

when she left the hospital. She keeps

24:04

it and everything else related to Everly in

24:06

another box her mother gave her. This

24:08

is a box that I

24:11

have that my mom had whenever

24:13

I was younger. And

24:15

so in this box is all there is.

24:18

This is all there is of Everly

24:21

Grace Tolman. So

24:23

in here I've got jewelry

24:26

that people have sent me. This is a sunflower,

24:28

it's a sunflower, it makes me think of baby

24:30

B and then there's an E. This

24:35

is from her funeral.

24:38

So it's got her name and it's got

24:40

a Bible verse, her stats.

24:43

And then if you can see

24:45

that is her footprint and

24:48

her handprint over there. What's the Bible

24:50

verse? It

24:52

says, I praise you because

24:54

I am fearfully and wonderfully

24:56

made. Your works are wonderful,

24:59

wonderful. And I know that full

25:01

well. It's from Psalms and it's,

25:05

I needed to remind myself

25:08

and it felt very comforting and is that

25:11

she was perfect. She

25:14

was fearfully and wonderfully made. Even

25:19

though she was very, very

25:21

swollen, she was full

25:24

of fluid and she was wrapped in

25:26

cellophane that she was perfect.

25:33

And I've got my pregnancy

25:36

test in here. I've got it all because

25:39

you can't throw it away. I mean, I couldn't

25:42

throw anything

25:44

out, anything, a validation from

25:46

parking. I've got it. It

25:50

all means something. And

25:52

so this is a picture

25:54

of me and Tyler holding, I believe.

26:00

I was obsessed with wanting to get pregnant

26:02

again. One doctor wanted me

26:04

to wait a year, another

26:06

doctor six months, and somehow we

26:08

settled on four. And

26:12

then we got, and we got pregnant

26:14

with Luke. Thank

26:17

you God. And

26:20

we found out that Luke was a boy, which

26:24

was so bittersweet.

26:27

Like in my mind, I couldn't have,

26:29

I couldn't get pregnant with a girl because what

26:32

if? If I got pregnant with a girl, I'm

26:34

gonna lose her again. Turner syndrome is only

26:36

in girls. Turner syndrome only happens

26:38

to girls. And, but

26:40

I also couldn't have a boy because then

26:43

I never got my girl. You know, I kind

26:45

of felt like I could right

26:48

or wrong by getting

26:50

pregnant with a girl. And I know that

26:52

sounds, it

26:55

sounds weird and it doesn't sound

26:58

right, but ultimately having Luke, I

27:00

mean, he saved my life. He really, really did. And

27:03

then we got pregnant again with Ryan, another

27:06

healthy baby and found out it was a boy. Amazing,

27:10

but I really cried then

27:12

because, you

27:15

know, I don't know if we're gonna have more kids. And

27:18

it was a lifelong dream I had to

27:20

be a mother to a little girl. And

27:24

to have that relationship. What

27:27

have you learned about grief

27:29

that might help others? Well,

27:33

my favorite quote that helped me a

27:35

lot, and you may

27:38

have heard this, it's by Jamie Anderson. It

27:41

says, grief I've learned is really just

27:43

love. It's all the love

27:45

you want to give but cannot. All

27:48

of that unstint love

27:50

gathers up in the corner of

27:52

your eyes, the lump in

27:54

your throat, and then that hollow

27:56

part of your chest. Grief

27:59

is just love. with no place to go. And

28:03

it's particularly that last sentence. It's just love

28:05

with no place to go. And of course,

28:07

I grieve

28:10

because I loved her. She

28:12

was, she is, she was, and

28:15

that I'm really grieving a lifetime. I'm

28:19

grieving everything I lost,

28:22

all the milestones and all

28:25

the birthdays, all the seemingly

28:28

insignificant things. It's the first days of

28:30

school. One of the

28:32

things you said is that you, you

28:36

see her now running in a field. No,

28:38

yeah. I love

28:40

that image. No, I love

28:43

it so much. It's

28:45

the same image every

28:47

time. She's around three, four, and

28:51

we're in a field and

28:53

she's in front of me. And

28:56

she is running

28:58

as fast as she can and giggling. And

29:01

she's wearing a blue dress

29:04

that's spaghetti strap. And

29:07

she looks back at me and smiles. And

29:13

it's interesting that I don't, I don't view

29:15

her as a baby.

29:18

I don't view her as, you

29:20

know, an adolescent, a teenager, an

29:22

adult. She's this three

29:25

year old girl running

29:27

wild in a field. And

29:32

just like the

29:35

feeling of joy and peace that

29:37

I got in the hospital room, that

29:39

that was a gift, this is the other one. It

29:42

is huge. I

29:45

can picture her as she's

29:48

well, she is well. And

29:50

I love it. Yeah. I

29:53

don't see it that often, but like talking about

29:55

it right now, I see it very clearly. She's

29:58

running and she's just. She's just a

30:01

little girl and she's great.

30:04

And I believe that, I do believe that

30:06

heaven is like that. I don't think she

30:08

knows that I'm gone. You

30:11

know, she looks back and there I am. I'm just right there.

30:14

I'm right there. And you

30:16

are. You're not gone. I

30:18

can't wait to hug her, you know. I

30:21

can't wait to hear her voice and to hear

30:23

her laugh and because

30:25

there's no sound in the image that

30:27

I have. She's just running and I know she's laughing.

30:32

I can't wait to hug her and

30:34

to have this homecoming and

30:36

to never let go.

30:39

You know, to just be there and get to

30:41

find out if baby B was a boy or

30:44

a girl. I

30:47

cannot wait. And every single

30:49

day is one day closer to her. And

30:52

I have to remember that. Okay,

30:55

thank you so much. Thank you for

30:58

talking to me. Thank

31:00

you for reaching out for

31:03

the podcast in general. It's amazing that

31:05

you can be alone in your house and feel less

31:07

alone when you're listening to something like this. And

31:11

thanks for helping continue

31:14

a relief legacy. Being

31:16

able to talk about her and share

31:19

is such a gift for me. So

31:21

thank you. That's

31:25

all there is for this week. For

31:27

the holidays approaching, which can be difficult

31:30

for so many of us, I'll talk

31:32

with Amanda Petrusic, a music writer for

31:34

The New Yorker whose husband Brett died

31:36

suddenly in She's

31:38

now figuring out how to raise their young daughter

31:40

on her own. How do I

31:42

let my daughter see me grieving?

31:44

How do I encourage her to understand

31:47

that grief is normal, that grief is

31:49

love, but also to make

31:51

sure that she knows that I'm going to

31:53

be okay and she is going to be okay. I

31:56

think the work of that is exhausting.

32:00

That's next week on All There Is. Thanks

32:02

for listening. All

32:04

There Is is a production of CNN Audio.

32:06

The show is produced by Grace Walker and

32:09

Dan Bloom. Our senior producers are Haley Thomas

32:11

and Felicia Patinkin. Dan D'Zula

32:13

is our technical director, and Steve Lichtai

32:15

is the executive producer of CNN Audio.

32:18

Support from Charlie Moore, Carrie

32:20

Rubin, Shymri Chitri, Ronnie Bettis,

32:23

Alex Maniseri, Robert Mathers,

32:25

John Deonora, Laini Steinhardt,

32:27

Jameis Andres, Nicole Pesseroo,

32:29

and Lisa Namro. Special

32:32

thanks to Katie Hinman. All

32:41

There Is with Anderson Cooper is supported

32:44

by Evernorth Health Services. Grief

32:46

is a human experience. Shouldn't

32:48

the care we receive feel human too? That's

32:51

why Evernorth Behavioral Health ensures all

32:53

members have access to live, specialized

32:55

support anytime. In-person or virtually. With

32:57

a 100% follow-up commitment to make

32:59

sure that they get the help

33:01

that they need. So no matter

33:03

what stage of grief your employees

33:05

may be in, there's always a

33:07

person ready to listen. Stressful times

33:09

can lead many to bottle up

33:11

complex feelings, especially at work. 59%

33:15

of those suffering say nothing. This can

33:17

have unexpected and serious mental and physical

33:20

health implications. And with Evernorth's

33:22

data-driven risk monitoring tools, they can

33:24

help spot challenges early and step

33:26

in to guide individuals to care

33:28

before they undergo any more suffering.

33:30

Each person's grief is as unique

33:32

as they are, which is why

33:34

Evernorth offers a wide range of

33:36

personalized behavioral solutions to meet the

33:38

needs of every member that they

33:40

serve. Learn more

33:42

at evernorth.com/grief support.