0:00

One. Reply subscribers can binge new seasons

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of American history tellers early and ad

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free right now. Joined Wonder He Plus

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and the Wonder Yeah or on Apple

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podcasts. Imagine

0:22

it's late morning and June of eighteen

0:24

Seventy Nine, You're twenty one year old

0:26

aspiring writer living in Chicago, and you're

0:29

walking briskly of Washington Street toward a

0:31

large office building. You been unable to

0:33

sell your first novel, so you took

0:35

a job corps writing a book with

0:37

Alan Pinkerton, head of the Pinkerton National

0:39

Detective Agency, Today. Are heading

0:42

to the agency's main office to meet with Mr.

0:44

Pinkerton and review with him the first draft of

0:46

the manuscript you turned in last week. After.

0:50

Arriving secretary leads you to a large

0:52

office, where Pinkard himself sits behind a

0:54

cluttered desk. You. Know he suffered

0:57

a stroke years ago, and in your

0:59

first two meetings, he appeared frail, an

1:01

older than his sixty years, but today

1:03

he seems more robust and energized. Hello

1:05

Young man, Take Se! I read your

1:07

manuscript and I have some concerns. Are

1:09

concerned? What did you not like about.

1:12

Well. For starters, there's not enough drama

1:14

or action. So. Little flat. Honestly kind

1:16

of boring. Your. Heart sinks

1:18

because you were sure you'd written a great

1:20

book. On. Sorry to hear you feel

1:22

that way, sir. What do you suggest? While.

1:25

One thing you can do was add more dialogue. get

1:27

people talking. But. How can I

1:29

do that? I I wasn't there. I don't know

1:31

what people actually sat. On it doesn't

1:33

matter. Embellish. The readers don't care. They

1:35

want to be entertained. That's what these

1:37

books are. Entertainment Thought you understood that?

1:40

You've read Pinkerton's previous books and you

1:42

tried to copy the style. But this

1:44

new one, Spy of The Rebellion, tells

1:46

the story of Pinkerton's time as a

1:48

spy for the Union Army during the

1:50

Civil War. The. Idea of putting words

1:53

in people's mouths made you uncomfortable. I

1:55

want to be sure I'm can hear you correctly.

1:57

You want me to make up the quote? Even

1:59

aber. Lincoln's. Yes, Just

2:02

make him sound believable. Think of it

2:04

as narrative enhancing dial. Know. How

2:06

to. Answer: I I'm not

2:08

sure I understand. Is this a fictional book?

2:10

A novel know. But it's not a dry

2:13

history book either. But. It sounds like you

2:15

want me to take liberties with the truth. People

2:17

want Axis on. They want to. Good story

2:20

and the story need not be a hundred

2:22

percent true. just merely true enough. He

2:25

stands up a hands you back to

2:27

manuscripts. Pages are covered with note. This.

2:30

I have other riders I can turn to

2:32

do not up for the test. My publisher

2:34

New York, is eager to receive the manuscript.

2:36

So can you fix? Yes, yes I can

2:38

fix it Or just give me one more

2:40

tests. Grand. But remember, I have

2:42

two goals with all my books: maintain

2:44

the reputation of this agency, which you

2:46

know I built myself over the past

2:48

twenty years. and secondly, sell books and

2:50

make money right? That obvious. But if

2:52

you feel like you're not up to

2:54

it to say the word, I'll find

2:56

someone else. Mr. Pinkerton's last comments resonate

2:59

with you. You need to make money

3:01

to, and even if it goes against

3:03

your nature to embellish the truth, you

3:05

do what it takes to bring into

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The Eating Sachs The Pinkerton National Detective

4:53

Agency had become well known, and founder

4:55

Allen Pinkerton was eager to capitalize on

4:57

the growing interest in the work of

4:59

his detectives. He began writing

5:01

a series of books based on his and

5:03

his agents daring exploits. Pinkerton

5:06

insisted that the events he depicted

5:08

actually transpired, but according to historians,

5:10

he employed ghostwriters to help finesse

5:12

his recollections, make them more palatable

5:14

to the public, But. Despite

5:16

any embellishments or maybe because of them,

5:19

these stories were wildly popular and would

5:21

solidify the Pinkerton's reputation as the premier

5:23

detective agency in America for many years

5:25

to come. Here with me

5:28

now to discuss the ways in which

5:30

the Pinkerton's built their brand and tried

5:32

to control it is Paul O'hara associate

5:34

professor of History and Xavier University and

5:36

author of the book Inventing The Pinkerton's.

5:42

Paulo. Hair of welcome to American History Tellers!

5:44

Thank you for having me. Now. I

5:46

understand you originally hoped to ride to states

5:48

a straight ahead history of the Pinkerton's for

5:50

your book inventing the picture. dense but sounded

5:53

it didn't quite pan out that way. What

5:55

was a basic idea for the book and

5:57

Saudi to change? While. I think like

5:59

any history. And you find something interesting. Have

6:01

found these key people's moving through this historical

6:03

landscape and you wanna know more about them,

6:06

right? Much like Butch Cassidy and Sundance in

6:08

the Nineteen Sixty Nine. So Rise of Deceit

6:10

is guys who are that you want to

6:12

know more about who they are men. I

6:14

wanted to find that truth about what they

6:16

were in, what they didn't, where they sit

6:19

and all of this And there was frustrating

6:21

because I I did what every other historian

6:23

does. which is you go to the archives,

6:25

you look at the documents. I was already

6:27

familiar with the books that Alan Pinkerton had

6:29

written. Or dose written. I knew all

6:32

the legends, I knew all the

6:34

folk tales. I want to find something

6:36

else, something tangible to counteract that,

6:38

and I just couldn't find it. The

6:40

more I looked, I went to

6:42

the archives, went to the Library Congress.

6:45

I went to the company files

6:47

hoping to find those really juicy details

6:49

and they just weren't there. And

6:51

the more I looked, the more I

6:53

found that in the archives. in

6:55

their records. A company records. It was

6:58

just this obsessive detailing of the

7:00

reputation. And every time a newspaper

7:02

article mention them, every time someone in

7:04

a speech mention them, they just they

7:06

were deeply concerned about the reputation. And.

7:08

That frustrates me for a very long

7:11

time until I just kind of embraced

7:13

it and realize that the folk tale

7:15

is the story and the legend and

7:17

reputation is the tale of the bigger

7:19

tents. I had to come to terms

7:21

with not telling the story of the

7:24

Pinkerton so much as telling the story

7:26

of the story of the Pinkerton's And

7:28

then that kind of became the stories

7:30

of the stories of the Pinkerton's And

7:32

that was of the process of embracing

7:34

this messing this of Pinkerton's the company

7:37

doing actual things and Pinkerton. The Brand

7:39

and Pinkerton, the legend and folklore and

7:41

funding the connections between those three. So.

7:44

I guess confronted with is manufactured history and

7:46

and deciding to make your history about the

7:48

history, what kind of sources did you try

7:51

to turn to and piece together the story

7:53

behind the story of the Pinkerton's. There

7:56

were these somewhere between detective novels

7:58

to dime novels that Allen Pinkerton

8:00

published. There were these journal articles

8:02

written in national magazines that the

8:04

company would commission. They let authors

8:06

into the archives. There was. this

8:08

is public discourse and so delving

8:10

into what people said about the

8:13

company, how they respond to other

8:15

accusations, how the company try to

8:17

counter that and shape it and

8:19

molded and respond to these public

8:21

criticisms. And the way in which

8:23

the public criticisms created more public

8:25

criticisms they were was really a

8:27

story that was hashed out within.

8:30

The public sphere so I had to

8:32

concentrate on those public persona us that

8:34

we're being bandied about. About the Pinkerton's

8:36

So the pictures and story well starts

8:38

with Alan Pinkerton and we should start

8:40

with where he started in Chicago working

8:42

as a Cooper a barrel maker but

8:44

he fell into detective work rather quickly

8:47

and that this happens in large part

8:49

because of the way money worked at

8:51

a time who manufactured money in their

8:53

he added that lead to a toner

8:55

sitting problem. Is an interesting

8:57

arab because it's this era of

9:00

Andrew Jackson and Andrew Jackson's of

9:02

rate democratizing force railing against the

9:04

elite institutions of the coast. and

9:07

the National Bank is one of

9:09

those rights. For this Jacksonian era

9:11

in which the Federal bank, the

9:14

national Bank is being decentralized, accounts

9:16

are being pulled out and spread

9:18

about to various different state banks.

9:21

is his refocusing on species. Guys

9:23

are hard coins and so much

9:25

of the business was supposed to

9:28

be done in these hard minted

9:30

coins. Coins made a precious metals.

9:32

Which means the coin itself help

9:35

value. Not banknotes, banknotes which is

9:37

promissory notes both out a centralized

9:39

several national bank. It's There's a

9:42

shortage of these sorts of banknotes.

9:44

Suit says Jacksonian era where bank

9:46

notes are less than reputable. Is.

9:49

Happening at the same time as

9:51

this huge national expansion of business

9:54

of Trade of Slavery of Cotton

9:56

of Railroads. As with a very

9:58

time there's less. The Circulating: There

10:00

needs to be more money circulating. And

10:03

what that creates is this explosion in

10:05

state bank notes. Various different banks, some

10:07

of them reputable, some of them a

10:10

lesson reputable, some the big, some of

10:12

them small, some them real, some of

10:14

them sakes. All of these banks are

10:16

printing their own notes. So this is

10:19

this wild cat money that is sloshing

10:21

through the system, especially in the West.

10:23

But. Banks are really on the hook

10:25

for this. so banks are willing to

10:28

pay people, especially men such as Allen

10:30

Pinkerton to chase down counterfeiters to chase

10:32

down these counted bank notes. And that's

10:34

the real crisis around money and banking.

10:37

So. Does Sons is kind of

10:39

alternate economy of banknotes, creates an

10:41

underground economy of counterfeiters and discuss

10:43

Allen Tinker ten his first opportunity

10:45

as a detective? What is this

10:47

first lucky break of his? what

10:49

is the story. This is worse

10:51

complicated because it's a story and it's his stories.

10:53

We always have to understand that this is the

10:55

story he tells later. About when he

10:58

becomes a detective. But. He says

11:00

I'm a Cooper, I'm a skilled artisans.

11:02

I'm a cooper, is going into the

11:04

rivers and we'd to find this very

11:06

specific woods he needs and he stumbles

11:08

across a counterfeiting. Operation. And

11:10

he goes to the local sheriff. The

11:13

local sheriff says if you come with

11:15

me you can help me and he

11:17

goes along with the sheriff to capture

11:19

these counterfeiters And he says this is

11:21

a moment when I realize I have

11:23

skill at this. This is a need,

11:25

this can be profitable. And this is

11:27

the moment he says when the detective

11:29

is born. So. Allen Pinkerton follows

11:32

this calling this new calling in

11:34

and falls into detective work. He's

11:36

also appointed as Sheriff's Deputy and

11:38

a special agent for the Us

11:40

Postal Service. or he began providing

11:42

security for the Southern Michigan Railroad.

11:44

This. Is a lot of hats for one

11:47

man. What was the state of law enforcement

11:49

at a time when our modern conception of

11:51

it would be that these are positions filled

11:53

by government forces. And that's

11:55

exactly at he wears all these

11:57

hats because there's no other rappers.

12:00

Patients of the state there no other representatives

12:02

so in terms of law enforcement's their tend

12:04

to be local sheriff's. And their

12:06

elected. They might have deputies. They might

12:08

not. They're really don't tend

12:10

to be police yet. Chicago, like

12:13

most cities will have a night

12:15

watch and they'll have a constable

12:17

basically there to make sure the

12:19

fires don't starts but really start

12:22

Until the eighteen safeties for Chicago

12:24

was eighteen fifty five The this

12:26

any formal police is not until

12:28

eighteen sixty that the police actually

12:31

have detectives. Before eighteen sixty, the

12:33

really just riot control does nothing.

12:35

There's no police, they're very few

12:37

sheriff's the railroad which cross. State

12:40

Lines, Four hundred different jurisdictions. There's

12:42

really no Federal authorities, state authority,

12:44

and set space that Allen Pinkerton's

12:46

able to move into. That he

12:48

can be a sheriff's deputy at

12:50

a police detective, and work for

12:52

the post Office. and work for

12:54

the railroad. and work for banks

12:56

is a jack of all trades

12:58

because he can sit would ever

13:00

need. There is. And. The

13:02

state by and large as happy to let him

13:04

do so. Unhappy to let him take on that

13:07

authority of the states because there's no one else.

13:09

So. And these early years then

13:12

course were hearing from Pinkerton's

13:14

himself on his story but

13:16

wanted to press say about

13:18

Alan Pinkerton detectives. The.

13:20

Presses loves him as they eat

13:22

this all up they are and

13:24

memory by his reputation there and

13:27

memory by his skill, their memories

13:29

of the way in which he

13:31

can provide law and order. This

13:33

is a moment in the eighteen

13:35

sixties were the Eastern Press in

13:37

particular is deeply a memory by

13:40

the frontier friends From these rugged

13:42

man from the frontier and the

13:44

says cargo still very much that

13:46

frontier outpost and so he sits

13:48

this and romantic ideal. Of.

13:51

Of. The rugged westerner who's bringing law and

13:53

order and because he fits that ideal, they

13:55

love him. and the more the press loves

13:58

them, the more he's willing to. Way

14:00

to those very things and stress those things

14:02

that they love about him. Or do you

14:04

think it was about Alan Pinkerton Barrel Mater

14:06

that suddenly made him such a successful detective?

14:09

Was he and he just have the the

14:11

right minds for the kind of work? Or

14:13

was Eve instead in the right place at

14:15

the right time? I think is probably a

14:18

little bit of both. From. Reading

14:20

everything he wrote about himself and reading

14:22

what other people wrote about him. I.

14:24

Think he was clearly relentless and single

14:26

minded, and the work ethic that he

14:29

was willing to put in was impressive,

14:31

right? Use obsessive, and when he got

14:33

on a case, be focus solely on

14:35

that case. So he's really relentless in

14:37

his pursuit, even ruthless in his pursuit.

14:40

And I think that made him. Very

14:42

successful rise of when companies hired him.

14:45

He got results for those company. At

14:48

the same time, he's also a really

14:50

early brand manager, right? I think he

14:52

understands in a way that very few

14:54

others do in the nineteenth century that

14:57

his appeal is cultural. The stories he

14:59

tells or the reputation he has is

15:01

clear from the company archives. he knows

15:03

his really early that he saw himself

15:06

so much as he a a services

15:08

and then is. Also, he comes at

15:10

a time when there is this chaos

15:12

when the rest of the spanking uncertainty

15:15

where there's bank notes and bank collapses

15:17

and economic panics. And the railroads

15:19

expanding for they don't know how to

15:21

expand and and who's gonna pay for

15:23

all this and just as general sense

15:25

of uncertainty. He's a great bomb for

15:27

that. So I think it's both his

15:29

skillset and his reputation, and he comes

15:31

at exactly the right time for all

15:33

of those things to really matters. Hand

15:41

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Just mentioned that Allen hundred and might

16:56

have been one of the earliest branch

16:58

managers. And soon enough after starting his

17:01

detective career, he moved beyond taking works

17:03

for himself and created his own business,

17:05

the Pinkerton National Detective Agency. It's but

17:08

his name on the brand, a logo

17:10

with an eye on the words we

17:12

Never Sleep Under It's what was the

17:14

image of a Pinkerton detective that he

17:17

was wanting to cultivate. So. The

17:19

is very specific about this and

17:21

a sources the Northwest Police agencies

17:23

and only over time become specifically

17:25

about him. I think that's part

17:27

of that brand. Management was also

17:30

really careful to craft, not only

17:32

internally, right. There are there are

17:34

rules and regulations for what kind

17:36

of man could be a Pinkerton

17:38

detective. It has to be educated

17:40

a have tremendous self control. He

17:42

has to be a good moral

17:44

standing. He doesn't delve into those

17:46

from the darker, murkier world of.

17:49

Divorce or sex scandals. That

17:51

Pinkerton detective is supposed to

17:53

be a very specific model

17:55

of middle class self control

17:57

on Friday and because. The

18:00

have such that center of middle

18:02

class propriety and self control that

18:04

allows them to them play at

18:06

being a criminal, right? They can

18:08

delve into this underworld. They can

18:11

pretend to be something they're not

18:13

because they are so morally center.

18:15

That's certainly the reputation. And I

18:17

think it's important that his reputation

18:19

because Pinkerton not he creates these

18:21

models but then publicized. I think

18:23

this is also marketing. He's telling

18:26

everyone the companies that are hiring

18:28

and but also the larger. National

18:30

Press, who the company is and why

18:32

they should be trusted. At. This time

18:34

in America's history One you saying that

18:36

there was such a thirst? For.

18:39

This brand of detectives that Pinkerton

18:41

story sold so well I think

18:43

it comes at a at a

18:45

particular time word, several key phenomena

18:47

or intersecting. This is an age

18:49

that fundamentally believed in the modern

18:51

that they were a new world

18:54

with a new way of thinking.

18:56

He's very clear when he lays

18:58

out what a detective does, he

19:00

says that the old forms of

19:02

detection, the old forms of of

19:04

crime solving he says have passed

19:06

away A before The enlightened Intelligence.

19:08

Of modern times rosaries, the sense

19:11

of the modern and that modern

19:13

applications of crime prevention and crime

19:15

solving and criminal justice could be

19:18

applied. And I think that's much

19:20

broader because there's a fascination with

19:22

mysteries and the very notion of

19:25

what a mystery is was changing

19:27

as a before the nineteenth century.

19:29

By and large mystery was a

19:32

see a logical term, it was

19:34

religious. Term is a mystery of

19:36

faith. Mysteries were things. That

19:39

were unknown and unknowable, and

19:41

I think as we shift

19:43

into the nineteenth century, that

19:45

changes were a mystery is

19:47

a puzzle that you haven't

19:49

solved yet, but someone smart

19:51

enough, disciplined enough observant enough

19:53

to solve these mysteries. And

19:56

I think the idea of the detective

19:58

confirms that. and so what? He. Clogging

20:00

into was not just this

20:02

economic need to apply some

20:04

law and order on banking

20:06

and railroads and crime, but

20:08

you also get this literary

20:10

output. You get Edgar Allan

20:12

Poe and Charles Dickens and

20:15

Wilkie Collins. They're all creating

20:17

literary detectives. Ride these gentlemen

20:19

crime solvers that's already out

20:21

in the mill. You was

20:23

out in the conversation And

20:25

so many ways Pinkerton's able

20:27

to tap into this fantasy

20:29

about. Who detectives were and

20:31

this need from companies to

20:33

crack down on disorder and

20:35

bad money and is able

20:37

to wed the two together.

20:40

So. Than in his pursuit of these

20:42

gentlemen crime solvers and their prominence

20:44

and promotion. Pictures dress, a code

20:46

of conduct, the principles and rules

20:48

for a detective, and also the

20:50

principles for armed guards or what

20:52

he called prevent. It's just an

20:54

idea of what kind of or

20:56

an overview of what these principles

20:58

said. They. Lay out the

21:00

basic rules of strict morals, Of

21:03

not inducing crime, not being

21:05

an Agent provocateur. Of.

21:08

Not working for awards, but for

21:10

money a per diem. Basically trying

21:12

to distance. His. Detective Agency

21:14

from this more friends tradition of hiring

21:16

seems to catch the it's right or

21:18

hiring criminals to catch criminals are getting

21:21

inside the criminal mind through criminal minds.

21:23

His rules or regulations say no, we're

21:25

just we're to the complete opposite of

21:27

this. We are gentlemen of honor and

21:29

we will conduct ourselves like gentlemen of

21:31

Honor And you can trust what we

21:34

do. You can trust what we say

21:36

because. We. Have all these rules

21:38

of conduct of who we hire

21:40

and how the that? that's the

21:42

official line and thus the line

21:44

that Pinkerton will promote and thus

21:46

the line that Pinkerton will keep

21:48

advertising and insist upon. Yet we

21:50

also know because we get these

21:52

expos a's from old think to

21:54

agents especially Charlie Surrender who's a

21:56

detective who starts in Chicago, heads

21:58

out west. And one of

22:01

the things that Charlie surrender will right

22:03

in his expos A About the Pinkerton

22:05

Detective Agency. Is. The he says

22:07

you know they have all these rules about who

22:09

they hire blood. Boys. You going

22:11

to that bunkhouse? you see all kinds

22:13

of different got they'll hire any once

22:16

you get of this. Official rules, official

22:18

regulations and then unofficially. There's. This

22:20

creeping counter narrative that says the

22:22

Pinkerton's aren't who they say they

22:24

are. Throughout. The series one

22:26

is. Things that surprised me was so

22:28

progressive Pinkerton was when it came to

22:30

syringae and promoting when he was clearly

22:33

a man and a man's world at

22:35

a time. Why do you think he

22:37

gave women the chance to be detectives

22:39

of all sex? I think it

22:41

works for him. He's very proud

22:43

of this as well. He should

22:45

be that he does hire women

22:47

detectives he hires I'm very early

22:49

as Kate weren't in particular but

22:52

had a lot in and others

22:54

who worked very well for him.

22:56

And I think he's interested in

22:58

women detectives because of his fundamental

23:00

belief in what a detective does

23:02

have. A detective is morally centered.

23:04

They can get near. That. Criminal

23:06

And sooner or later the criminal will

23:08

give themselves away. And this

23:11

is especially important in his early cases

23:13

when he's working for banks or express

23:15

companies because the banks don't just want

23:17

to test the thief they want to

23:19

know where the money is so you

23:21

need to get concessions he to get

23:23

information and so what figured and detectives

23:25

do it as they they surround the

23:27

people. And Pinkerton says if

23:29

we can get into their homes. They'll.

23:32

Be even less on guard. So

23:34

women detectives like Kate weren't can

23:36

pierce that veil of the private

23:38

sphere that can get into the

23:40

people's parlors. They can cozy up

23:42

to other people's wives, they can

23:44

chat, they can listen, they can

23:46

hear a big they go unnoticed,

23:48

and that's the very important purpose

23:50

that they can serve. So

23:53

Allen pigs and as we've been

23:55

discussing the an early brand manager

23:57

very aware of his image seen

23:59

marketing mind. What were the

24:01

message to? She used to get his message out,

24:03

how did he interface with the press? This.

24:05

Goes through a couple different stages in

24:08

the eighteen fifties. He's by and large

24:10

happy to let. The. Press find

24:12

him when he uncovers big cases

24:15

so get large in the press

24:17

in Chicago and elsewhere and is

24:19

pretty content with that, I'm He's

24:21

also pretty happy. To.

24:23

Build Business Network. Surprised If he

24:25

works well with railroads and railroad

24:28

executives, he'll get more work and

24:30

that works really well for him

24:32

in and through the American Civil

24:34

War, as he gets all of

24:36

these intelligence in intelligence positions. Through.

24:39

George Mcclellan. And. The Department

24:41

of War because of the connection Crt

24:43

has. And. Then, in the

24:45

postwar period, There's. This immediate

24:48

outpouring of stories about spies

24:50

about detective and his various different

24:52

detectives. On this Lafayette Baker

24:54

in Washington. They're all these other

24:56

spies, especially women spies during

24:58

the war, try to take credit

25:01

for saving Lincoln and eighteen

25:03

Sixty One trying to avoid blame

25:05

for losing Lincoln and Sixty

25:07

Five trying to take credit for

25:10

espionage and counter espionage during

25:12

the war and suddenly just waiting

25:14

for the pressed to find

25:16

him. Isn't enough? And that's when

25:18

he turns to first self publication,

25:20

right? He writes his books about

25:22

himself, he tries to defend his

25:25

reputation. Know I'm the one who

25:27

save Lincoln's I'm the one who

25:29

found all the spies and that

25:31

opens up the quite literally serve

25:33

a chapter for him. He realizes

25:35

he can, I think, tap much

25:37

more immediately into this larger. Discourse.

25:40

Of the detective that literary detectors if

25:43

we just flat out rights detective books

25:45

and so he says a med through

25:47

my files. People have been asking me

25:49

to do this and so here are

25:51

these rip roaring adventure tales that I've

25:53

been on and they're all true and

25:55

I think that becomes the key message

25:58

to promote himself from the eighty. The

26:00

sixties, well into the eighteen eighties.

26:02

So. Speaking of these novels or the

26:04

novelisations of his brand, I was one

26:07

if you could share a sword reading

26:09

with us and and maybe set it

26:11

up first. So one of Pinkerton's first.

26:14

Efforts are creating these sorts

26:16

of dime novel literary. Stories.

26:19

Was the Express Men in The Detective

26:21

which is about the Atoms Express Company

26:23

and one of their agents Maroney who

26:26

are suspected of stealing from the company

26:28

and using his wife to hide the

26:30

money's and the plot unfolds of how

26:32

Pinkerton is gonna catch on with the

26:35

thief but find the money. He says

26:37

the reader knows that I'm determined to

26:39

win. The. Adams Express Company had

26:41

furnished me with all the backing I

26:44

wanted And under such favorable auspices I

26:46

said when I must, when I shall.

26:48

I. Do not doubt that Maroney was the cease.

26:51

The question now was how can I find the

26:53

money And then a couple of lines later when

26:55

Maroney makes his big slip up and the spaces

26:57

open to catch him. We. Were in

27:00

a private room when fox demand this

27:02

is detective. After hearing his report I

27:04

turned to George Bags and said the

27:06

plot thickens every day. We are nearing

27:08

success. We have the woman treat at

27:10

last and in the North among our

27:12

friends depend upon it. We shall have

27:14

the money air long. And. This

27:16

exactly the kind of melodramatic retelling

27:18

that almost all of his detective

27:21

tales have. Of. Course though,

27:23

Alan Pinkerton was not the only

27:25

one who was adept in the

27:28

press or using the press to

27:30

the his advantage because Jesse James

27:32

did to taunting Pinkerton in the

27:35

press. Ah, because Jesse James consistently

27:37

escaped from pictures and agents tell

27:39

us how Jesse James use depressed

27:42

to his advantage. So. Jesse

27:44

James is another one of

27:46

these characters, whose folk lore.

27:49

And. Reputation. And. What

27:51

he actually does and why does it

27:53

don't necessarily match up. But he's also

27:56

from this man of his time. So

27:58

Jesse James and Frank James and. Youngers:

28:00

They're all Gorillas in Missouri

28:02

during the war. And.

28:05

They continue to do after with the war what

28:07

they had done during the war they just they

28:09

keep riding the keep stealing to keep rating. It's

28:12

not so much James as

28:14

it is John Newman Edwards.

28:17

And John Edwards is a

28:19

St. Louis newspaperman dedicated Confederate

28:21

dedicated to the memory of

28:23

Missouri considers and misery. Gorillas

28:26

is Newman Networks that really

28:28

crafts this. Language. Around

28:30

Jesse James that says he's not

28:32

just have a random bandit, He's

28:34

not just as random gorilla. He's

28:36

the rebel who keeps fighting. His

28:38

the rebels who never gave up.

28:41

And so if you crafts James

28:43

as this Confederate Rebels hero, Then.

28:45

Pinkerton finds himself as the foil of

28:48

that story. He becomes the villain of

28:50

that story and not comfortable. Being.

28:52

The villain of a story. So

28:54

then we have the some I guess

28:56

up a war of words in the

28:58

press. what did Allen Pinkerton do to

29:00

counter Jesse James and his publisher advocates?

29:02

and his failure to break up his

29:04

game is found his match both in

29:06

the James gang because he can't catch

29:08

them and it drives me insane. Or

29:11

because all of his methods don't work.

29:13

he would normally just flood and area

29:15

with agents. They'd take up positions in

29:17

local bars that throw some money around.

29:20

did buy some drinks right, and sooner

29:22

or later someone would talk and that's

29:24

just didn't work. in postwar Missouri, Pinkerton

29:26

agents just stuck out. James was not

29:28

unpopular on his, actually quite popular, and

29:30

so Pinkerton's normal mehsuds just end up

29:33

getting Pinkerton agents killed when the shop

29:35

in Missouri. The. James gang for

29:37

into them execute them are so

29:39

his message aren't working and he

29:41

also finds can't win the battle

29:43

for reputation can't wasn't win hearts

29:45

and minds because John Newman Edwards

29:47

is also best thing about his

29:50

game in that he's creating this

29:52

legend of James and creating these

29:54

letters ostensibly from James taunting Pinkerton

29:56

in the press ride. Is these

29:58

letters published in newspapers saying Pinkerton

30:00

senses best agents after us and

30:02

we best the more you try

30:04

to catch us and he can't

30:06

And there's this key moment were

30:08

based upon intelligence based upon rumor.

30:11

The. Pinkerton's are pretty sure that both Frank,

30:13

I'm Jesse James are gonna be at home.

30:16

This. Around the house in the middle of

30:18

the night they have this. This incendiary

30:20

device is ostensibly supposed to light up

30:22

the house. But. It explodes blowing

30:24

be arm off of their mother. Neither

30:27

one of them are home. And

30:29

this is a pr nightmare and

30:31

he backtracked backpedals. He tries to

30:34

tell other stories Will talk about

30:36

the Reno gang in Indiana where

30:38

we caught them for talk about

30:40

the Farrington gangs from Tennessee. They're

30:42

also Confederate rebels. We caught them,

30:45

but the Farrington and the Reno's

30:47

don't carry the cultural wait said

30:49

Jesse James dust and Pinkerton's always

30:51

that counterpart suggested. Enceladus. Hand

30:58

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31:01

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31:33

Ginger to National Detective Agency offer

31:36

dumb both detective services and eventually

31:38

armed guards for higher. By the

31:40

late eighties seventies agencies business expanded

31:43

from uncovering are catching criminals to

31:45

providing these guards to steal and

31:47

mining companies. This was a a

31:50

fairly significant switch. What forces were

31:52

a play that cause the agency

31:54

to make the shift. I

31:57

think there are two things. First, his family dynamics

31:59

Alan Pinkerton was. Aging I'd he creates

32:01

this. Company. In his

32:03

own image, they provide private guards for

32:05

companies that need them. but the big

32:08

focus is on the detective and this

32:10

His sons who are slowly moving into

32:12

the business begin to take over the

32:14

business by the late seventies early eighties.

32:16

and as his sons who say. The.

32:19

Real money is in providing the

32:21

security services that needs to be.

32:23

The focus was also the times.

32:26

This is the Gilded Age, The

32:28

the Civil War has ended. There's

32:30

this huge massive explosion of American

32:32

industry. It's of railroad expansion, meat

32:34

packing, coal mining, steel production. There's

32:37

a massive influx of new immigrants

32:39

into these new jobs, explosion of

32:41

of new cities, And there's tension.

32:43

There is violence. Unions are trying

32:46

to form the crackdown done these

32:48

unions and so. There's also this

32:50

new market for guards this new

32:52

fear of labor unions business be

32:54

of anarchy and t else within

32:56

these labor unions. So there's also

32:59

this brand new market emerging. So.

33:01

In this shift from merely detectives,

33:03

two guards, there was also does

33:06

new business opportunities which is protecting

33:08

American corporations from their striking workers.

33:10

Give us an example of how

33:12

this would play out. This is

33:14

the era in the company's history

33:17

in which they become the biggest

33:19

Dylan's. No. Question Pinkerton's business

33:21

when it came to strikes. Because

33:23

the companies have these two different

33:25

wings, they would on the one

33:27

hand send them detectives and will

33:29

detective would do is infiltrate the

33:31

union. They would start working at

33:33

the plant, they would go to

33:35

union meetings, they would figure out

33:37

who the leaders were to figure

33:39

out what people were saying, Were

33:42

they planning on striking, the detective

33:44

could label them and anyway an

33:46

anarchist or socialist or dangerous all

33:48

the better the detectives would infiltrate.

33:50

And get information and intelligence on

33:52

that union. What you have from

33:55

the guards the preventive is that

33:57

they were muscle and their job.

34:00

To show up in force an

34:02

armed and that's primarily to protect

34:04

the plant, the mill, or the

34:06

mines, to protect the from sabotaged

34:08

to keep strikers away from it,

34:10

and perhaps most importantly to allow

34:12

replacement workers to get through those

34:14

crowds back into the factory, back

34:16

into the mill, back into the

34:18

mine. That's contentious because they're

34:20

armed guards out in the some

34:23

public space. But it's even more

34:25

contentious because all of these strikes

34:27

were not just factories and mills

34:29

and minds, but railroads. And the

34:32

railroads meant the Pinkerton guards were

34:34

protecting the rail line as it

34:36

moved from towns. Which means they

34:39

had a much larger presence. Many

34:41

more armed guards, many more confrontations

34:43

with crowds. And this is where

34:45

so much of Pinkerton strike ratings

34:48

and guard activities. Turned violent

34:50

and bloody and deadly. And so

34:52

it's their place, not only within

34:54

the strikes, but most notoriously within

34:57

these railroad strikes. That really given

34:59

this well earned reputation as the

35:01

private army for capital. And

35:04

I suppose it was this period

35:06

of the company's history that in

35:08

spite of all of his Pr

35:10

efforts, Allen Pinkerton could not control

35:12

the narrative. In our series, we

35:14

talked about the Homestead and Haymarket

35:16

incidents in which Pinkerton's were involved

35:18

in anti labour violence and people

35:20

died. So. Did incidents like

35:22

these hurt the pictures and repetition?

35:25

Specifically specialists the public perception. and

35:27

eight. I. Think it's

35:29

Homestead Homestead is the big big

35:31

Moments and as been building for

35:33

a long time through all these

35:36

various different strikes that they're involved

35:38

in the railroad strikes. But it's

35:40

instead and as the optics of

35:42

Homesteads that here's this massive army

35:45

armed to the teeth coming down

35:47

across state lines, coming up the

35:49

river, coming into town, confronting strikers,

35:51

this big open battle with Strikers

35:53

this is too far to public

35:56

perception. This is Carnegie's private army.

35:58

And Carnegie have this much. Our how

36:00

does Carney get to have his own army

36:02

These are questions of people begin to ask

36:05

and there's outrage about. The. Pinkerton's.

36:07

And. This carefully cultivated reputations

36:09

gets changed and suddenly they're

36:11

not just the Pinkerton's their

36:13

the Pinks and the Pinks

36:15

are just suggs and mercenaries

36:18

and armed guys with rifles

36:20

willing to crack heads at

36:22

the behest of whoever pays

36:24

them enough. After Homestead. Congress

36:26

investigates and they investigate how

36:28

this happens. And. They

36:30

investigate whether companies should have armed

36:32

guards and whether Carnegie should have

36:34

this much power. And as part

36:37

of this larger effort to rein

36:39

in that unchecked power of guys

36:41

like Carnegie and Rockefeller and others

36:43

and the Pinkerton's arise the top

36:45

of that list, the populist party

36:47

sites them specifically by name that

36:49

one of the outrageous of the

36:51

American political System or the Pinkerton's

36:53

Congress will pass the Anti Pinkerton

36:55

Act under says specifically about them

36:57

and the kinds of abuses that

36:59

they represent. And basically that

37:02

emerging progressive state. Begins.

37:04

To say law enforcement can't be

37:06

delegated out to private companies. That

37:08

has to be an obligation that

37:10

the state takes so that space

37:12

of state authority through private companies

37:14

that Pinkerton it's thrived in after

37:16

Homestead. That. Strengths. So.

37:19

In a way, in this moment,

37:21

labor becomes the new Jesse James.

37:23

the Pinkerton's Button or in the

37:26

press trading barbs. That's right, Yes

37:28

is emerging Salt culture of Labor.

37:30

They absolutely create their own narrative

37:33

about who the Pinkerton's are. and

37:35

Jack London and other novelist and

37:37

other reporters are happy to counter

37:40

what the Pinkerton sons are now

37:42

saying about their company. And I'm

37:44

with this time turning here. The

37:47

folklore turns against the Pinkerton's. As

37:49

well, there is an soaked song, a

37:51

line that says father was killed by

37:54

a pink shirt and man I suppose

37:56

is gets to the grassroots notion of

37:58

the turn against the. It. I

38:00

think that's right. That. It's this

38:02

idea of capital and labor. And.

38:05

Who the people are within their own.

38:07

This whole point of the populace party

38:09

right as that. They come to be

38:11

representatives of the people and the company.

38:14

Been so very good at controlling their

38:16

narrative and they push back on this.

38:18

This is when they release all of

38:20

these new magazine articles trying to remind

38:22

people of what wonderful detectives they once

38:24

were. All these crimes that they solved.

38:26

But they don't control the narrative by

38:29

the eighty Nineties into the twentieth century,

38:31

and instead there's this demand that companies

38:33

can't have their own private armies. Companies.

38:35

Camps crack down on labor

38:37

and the state. Should. Be

38:40

responsible for these kinds of enforcement

38:42

of laws. And yet of course

38:44

the figured and company survived as

38:46

turbulent period. Started. A pivot.

38:49

The. Biggest and agency goes into much

38:51

more espionage detective work. They tried

38:53

to leave the armed guard at

38:55

work behind so they're less seen

38:58

publicly. They will go into security

39:00

work for race tracks, but they

39:02

also still provide that same kind

39:04

of industrial labour espionage for General

39:07

Motors and other corporations well into

39:09

the nineteen thirties. So the basically

39:11

hold on by clinging to those

39:13

parts of that market that are

39:16

still available to them. They're.

39:18

Public reputation, Really

39:20

stays poor until the nineteen

39:22

forties when during World War

39:24

Two, they can we pivot

39:26

and reposition themselves as protectors

39:28

of American industry from the

39:30

threats of sabotage from foreign

39:32

agents. There's. Another significant competitor

39:34

to on the investigation side B

39:36

S B I Guess Rice or

39:38

which again is this progressive era.

39:41

Idea that the state should be the

39:43

ones responsible. And it is

39:46

a great affront to the

39:48

Pinkerton Company. When. The

39:50

F B I emerges as

39:52

who was asked to create

39:54

and help shape the newly

39:56

emerging Bureau of Investigations are

39:58

Not The Pinkerton's. But. William

40:00

Burns right there chief rival. Because

40:02

Burns has created what he calls

40:04

the International Detective Agency which is

40:06

of a one upsmanship of the

40:08

National Detective Agency is the one

40:10

who's charged with creating. What?

40:12

Are in essence these Federal agents who

40:15

will do what Pinkerton's once dead, but

40:17

with the clear power and authority of

40:19

the state. And that's certainly the F

40:21

B I In the twenties and of

40:23

the thirties you start to get the

40:25

Edgar Hoover. and I think in many

40:27

ways Jagger Hoover. Follows. The

40:29

exact same playbook that Pinkerton

40:31

had created eighty years earlier.

40:34

So. Now let's erase ahead several

40:36

decades to almost the modern era.

40:38

Now in Nineteen Ninety Nine, the

40:40

sweeter security conglomerate Secure Tasks acquires

40:42

the company. Pinkerton's is now just

40:45

call Pinkerton's but is still very

40:47

vigilant about its name and reputation.

40:49

And one fascinating instance of this

40:51

was their response to the Pinkerton

40:53

showing up in the video game

40:56

Red Dead Redemption to tell us

40:58

what happened. So. The

41:00

Pinkerton's had always been cognisant of how

41:02

their name and reputation as being used

41:05

to the they show up and novels

41:07

all the time. So The Shop and

41:09

Sherlock Holmes novels by the Nineteen fifties,

41:12

nineteen sixties when espionage his hip again

41:14

he and Fleming in the James Bond

41:16

novels right will have Felix Leiter is

41:18

a is a finger tonnage our eyes

41:21

or that's the perfectly happy to let

41:23

Pinkerton agents show up when they're the

41:25

heroes. What changes I think with this

41:28

video game. Is that you

41:30

play the game. As.

41:32

An Outlaw, You're a bandit and you're

41:34

You're being chased throughout the Wild West

41:36

and you're being chased by Pinkerton's and

41:38

Pittance are clearly the villains and you

41:41

battle them. And. I think what

41:43

happened was that not necessarily that's

41:45

just occurred, but how popular the

41:47

video game became and how many

41:49

online forums they're worth of people

41:51

who are playing the games talking

41:53

about how many Pinkerton agents they

41:55

killed. And I think that caught

41:57

the attention of the company and they sued

41:59

and it. They did a lot of

42:01

press, it showed up in all

42:03

kinds of news releases and ultimately

42:05

the case was unsuccessful. Was never

42:07

really gonna be successful, but I

42:10

think what's masterful about. That.

42:12

Act of suing the Video

42:14

Game Company is that almost

42:16

every response that I read.

42:19

Basically. The recent rise I didn't

42:21

know the Pinkerton still existence and I

42:23

think many ways it was a masterful

42:25

Pr move because in the company reminders

42:27

the entire world say we still exist

42:29

and we still provide security services if

42:31

you need them all. O'hara thank you

42:33

so much for joining me on American

42:35

History tells it is my pleasure. Thank

42:37

you so much for haven't. That

42:40

was my conversation with historian Follow

42:42

Hair is both inventing the Pinkerton's

42:45

is available now from Johns Hopkins

42:47

University Press. From. Wonder

42:49

A This is our fourth and final

42:51

episode of the Pinkerton Detective Agency for

42:53

American history tellers. On the next episode

42:55

will be talking about the hidden history

42:57

of the White House. A new book

42:59

from the team behind American History Dollars.

43:02

I'll join the book's author touring need

43:04

and journalist a New York Times bestselling

43:06

author Cheat Anderson Brauer, who will take

43:08

us inside the Walls of America as

43:10

Executive Mansion to explore the Sears Tower

43:12

struggles, intimate moments, shocking scandal that shaped

43:14

our nation, The hidden history. The White

43:16

House comes out june Force as available

43:18

for preorder. Now wherever you get your boss.

43:24

If you like American history dollars, you

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43:45

History Tellers has hosted. Edited and

43:47

produced by Me, Lindsey Graham for

43:49

Airship Sound Design by Molly by

43:51

Music by Lindsey Graham. additional writing

43:53

by Neil Thompson. This episode was

43:55

produced by Tali Strider and a

43:57

leader was in his. In

44:00

your interview Producer is Peter

44:02

Artists coordinating producer is Desi

44:04

Blaylock managing producer Mcat senior

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managing producer Ryan More senior

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producer Any Herman and executive

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producers are Gen Our Beckman,

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Marshall Louis and Air Know

44:14

Flaherty for wondering. As

44:22

a year thirty teenage girl once

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in every state so up in

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Mobile, Alabama to compete in the

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largest cast scholarship competition exclusively for

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But what happens when a Supreme

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a lot of the girls are crying.

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And I never seen any of

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them cry before them panel see

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studios and wondering this is the

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