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Wondery Plus subscribers can binge new seasons

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now. Join Wondery Plus on the Wondery

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app or on Apple Podcasts. It's

0:23

February 1983 in the offices of

0:25

The Charlotte News, a newspaper based

0:28

in Charlotte, North Carolina. 29-year-old

0:31

reporter Terry Mattingly is at his desk

0:33

reading through an article about a wealthy

0:35

preacher named Jim Baker. Mattingly

0:37

covers religion, but he's been at the paper for

0:39

less than a year, so is looking for a

0:41

big story to make a name for himself. And

0:44

the recent reporting from their sister paper, The

0:46

Charlotte Observer, has caught his attention. A

0:49

reporter there, Alan Cohen, has been investigating

0:51

Baker and the empire he's built using

0:53

little more than folksy charm and a

0:55

brand of faith known as the Prosperity

0:58

Gospel. Baker teaches his followers

1:00

that God wants good Christians to

1:02

achieve wealth and success. He

1:04

even encourages true believers to live beyond

1:06

their means and make generous donations to

1:09

Baker's ministry as proof of their faith

1:11

that God will provide for them later.

1:15

Depending on how you look at it,

1:17

the philosophy is either positive and optimistic

1:19

or delusional and dangerous. Mattingly

1:21

hasn't quite made up his mind, but

1:24

one thing he's sure of, Jim Baker

1:26

clearly practices what he preaches. The

1:28

minister is a mogul with multiple

1:31

cars and homes, and based on

1:33

what Mattingly's been reading, anytime Baker's

1:35

Prosperity Gospel is on the verge

1:37

of backfiring, he seems to escape

1:39

unscathed. It happened just last

1:41

year. In late December 1982, the FCC closed a years-long

1:45

investigation of Baker and his televangelist

1:47

company PTL short for Praise the

1:50

Lord. The

1:52

agency had accused Baker of misappropriating

1:54

funds that were supposed to go to

1:57

opening Christian TV studios overseas, and

1:59

after Countless hours of hearings, PTL

2:01

finally agreed to sell the one TV

2:04

station it owned in the US. And

2:06

since the FCC had jurisdiction over

2:08

station owners but not show producers,

2:11

the agency dropped its inquiry. Baker

2:13

was not technically cleared of wrongdoing, but

2:15

when the case was referred to the

2:18

Justice Department, they declined to pursue it. Then

2:21

just last week, the Charlotte News sister

2:23

paper, the Charlotte Observer, reported that the

2:25

Bakers bought a condo in Florida and

2:27

secretly paid for it with donations made

2:29

to PTL. Mattingly was

2:32

sure there'd be some fallout from that,

2:34

but so far, Baker's followers seem to

2:36

be sticking with him. Mattingly

2:41

is jolted out of his reading by the sound of

2:43

his phone ringing. He grabs a pen

2:45

with one hand and then lifts the phone to

2:48

his ear with another. Terry Mattingly, Charlotte News, may

2:50

I ask who's calling? I'm not

2:52

giving you my name, but trust me, you'd recognize it.

2:55

I'm famous in the Christian world. Yeah,

2:57

okay, Mr. Anonymous Collar, what can I

2:59

do for you? I wanna talk about

3:01

Jim Baker. Mattingly raises

3:03

an eyebrow. He quickly scans the

3:05

newsroom to see if any of his fellow reporters are

3:07

holding a phone and grinning at him. Everyone

3:10

knows he's hungry for a Jim Baker story. The

3:12

timing of this call is almost too perfect.

3:15

Look, if this is a practical joke, I'm

3:17

sorry, I don't have time. No joke, Mattingly.

3:20

I wish it was. Things are changing. We

3:22

Christians used to forgive, but now there's

3:25

a lack of compassion for people who have

3:27

fallen from God. I take it you

3:29

mean people like yourself. That's right. Now,

3:32

because of a few misunderstandings, people at

3:34

PTL are telling pastors everywhere not to

3:36

have me in their churches, and

3:38

it's ruining my life. I'm actually

3:40

scared to death. Well, tell me what's making

3:43

you scared. Baker? I mean, he

3:45

gets in tight with one person and then throws

3:47

them down. Never knew a more corrupt man in

3:49

his life. Now I see him for what

3:51

he is. Mattingly clicks his

3:53

ballpoint pen and starts jotting down notes.

3:56

So you say he's corrupt. Can you

3:58

give me an example? after

10:00

several minutes, Baker opens his eyes again. I

10:03

sinned. And if you want to

10:05

know more, contact Fred Gross. The

10:07

therapist you and Tamizol for marriage

10:09

counseling? That's right, call him. I'll

10:11

give him permission to tell you the truth about Jessica

10:14

Hahn. Dorch

10:17

thanks Baker, and assures him he'll take care

10:19

of everything. But as he walks

10:21

back down the hallway, Dorch can feel his stomach

10:23

sinking. He hoped that Baker would

10:25

tell him that he'd never even met Hahn, and

10:28

that PTL had nothing to worry about. But

10:31

now Dorch feels that both Baker

10:33

and PTL are in serious trouble.

10:38

Not long after his meeting with Jim

10:40

Baker, Richard Dorch speaks to therapist Dr.

10:42

Fred Gross. And as directed

10:44

Gross conveys Jim Baker's recollection of the

10:47

Hahn encounter. According

10:49

to Baker, he and Hahn did have

10:51

intercourse, but the act was consensual. Dorch

10:54

is relieved to hear that Baker hasn't

10:56

committed a crime, but he knows that

10:58

a public charge of infidelity could be

11:00

just as damaging. PTL is part of

11:02

the larger Assemblies of God Church, and

11:04

Baker's conduct is a clear violation of

11:07

the church's strict moral doctrine. Church

11:09

leaders could demand that Baker stay off the air

11:11

for a year or more, or even

11:14

step away from the ministry altogether. Dorch

11:17

decides he can't let that happen, so

11:19

he does his best to make PTL's

11:22

Jessica Hahn problem disappear. He

11:24

writes up a document for her to sign

11:26

stating that she was the one who seduced

11:28

Baker, then gives it to a fellow PTL

11:30

board member, Reverend Amy Cortese, to deliver to

11:33

Hahn. And in November

11:35

of 1984, Cortese meets with Hahn at

11:37

an Assemblies of God Church in New

11:39

York City, pressuring her to sign the

11:41

document in exchange for $10,000. After

11:45

a long argument, Hahn finally gives in

11:47

and signs. But just a

11:49

day later, Hahn changes her mind. She

11:52

calls Cortese and says she'll give the money

11:54

back if Cortese will give her the confession

11:56

documents so she can destroy it. Cortese

11:59

refuses. that

14:00

she's calling for a friend who was

14:02

forced to sign a false statement that

14:05

gave PTL legal protection. Shepard

14:07

asks what kind of protection Jennifer

14:09

is talking about. Haltingly, she

14:11

tells him that on December 5th, 1980,

14:14

her friend was invited to Clearwater Beach, Florida,

14:17

by a man named John Wesley Fletcher. Fletcher

14:19

is a faith healer who used to work for

14:21

Jim Baker at PTL. He brought

14:24

Jennifer's friend up to room 538 at

14:26

the Sheraton Sand Key Resort. And

14:29

there, Jennifer's friend met Jim Baker, who was

14:31

in town for a telethon. Not

14:33

long after that, she was subjected to

14:36

a terrible situation, one she had no

14:38

control over. Shepard says

14:40

he thinks he understands what she's telling him, but

14:42

there's a part of the story he doesn't actually

14:44

believe. Gently, he tells

14:46

Jennifer that he doesn't think she's talking

14:48

about a friend. He suspects

14:51

that whatever this terrible situation was, it

14:53

happened to Jennifer herself. There's

14:58

another long pause before Jennifer

15:00

finally admits that, yes, he's

15:02

right. Then Shepard voices another

15:04

hunch. He says that several

15:06

months ago, he heard a name from

15:08

another reporter covering PTL. That

15:10

name was Jessica Hahn. Shepard

15:13

asks bluntly, is he speaking with

15:15

Hahn now? Jennifer sighs

15:17

and says, yes, her real

15:19

name is Jessica Hahn. She

15:22

hid her identity because she's been deeply affected by

15:24

what's happened to her. She struggles

15:26

at work, she's depressed, and

15:29

now, thanks to people at PTL, rumors are

15:31

being spread about her. She doesn't

15:33

know how much more she can take. Shepard

15:36

wants to help, but says he needs to hear

15:38

it directly. What exactly happened

15:40

in that hotel room? Hahn

15:42

takes a deep breath, and then

15:44

says she was sexually assaulted, and that

15:46

Baker was the perpetrator. Shepard

15:49

thanks her for her candor, and Hahn says

15:51

she wants Baker to answer for what he

15:53

did. Shepard says he understands,

15:55

and the two agree to talk again

15:57

soon. Shepard puts the phone

15:59

down. Baker

18:00

doesn't have that kind of money, and Roper knows

18:02

it. Dorch can offer Han 100,000 tops. Roper

18:06

scoffs, though. 100,000 is an insult. They're

18:10

talking about a woman who was manhandled. A

18:12

woman who, in her own words, feels like

18:14

a discarded piece of meat. She's

18:17

entitled to restitution. Dorch

18:20

says he's willing to go a little higher, but not

18:23

much. There's no proof that the things

18:25

happen the way Han describes. It's Baker's

18:27

word against hers. She's a

18:29

young, single secretary, and Dorch

18:31

has looked into her past. It's questionable. Meanwhile,

18:34

Jim Baker is one of the most famous

18:36

and beloved religious leaders in the country. But

18:39

Roper replies it won't be that way for

18:41

long if Han unleashes her story on America's

18:43

front pages. He tells Dorch that $265,000 is

18:45

the lowest he'll go, and if Dorch refuses, then Han goes

18:51

to the press. After that, Baker

18:53

and his ministry will just have to take their

18:55

chances in the court of law, public opinion, and

18:57

maybe even the court of law. Dorch

19:00

considers Roper's warning, and then

19:02

he slowly reaches across the table. Roper

19:05

takes his hand and they shake. But

19:08

before Dorch lets go, he says that

19:10

he needs some kind of assurance. A

19:12

promise that Han will never speak about this

19:14

matter again. He doesn't want to

19:16

pay only for her to change her mind about going

19:18

public later. Roper pulls his

19:20

hand back. He says he'll give Dorch

19:22

peace of mind. Part of the money can

19:25

be paid up front in cash. The rest

19:27

can be paid through a 20-year trust fund. If

19:30

Han talks, trust will be revoked. This

19:32

will give her incentive to stay silent. Dorch

19:35

nods, feeling some of his stress melt

19:37

away. Maybe now, after months

19:39

of uncertainty, he can finally make this

19:41

Jessica Han problem go away once and for

19:44

all. Now he just had to figure

19:46

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late February 1985, PTL's

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Executive Vice President Richard Dorich has exactly

22:16

one goal, to secure enough money to

22:18

buy Jessica Hahn's silence and save his

22:21

boss Jim Baker from a scandal that

22:23

could end his career as a televangelist.

22:26

Hahn is demanding $265,000, but despite his lavish lifestyle, Baker

22:28

can't come up with that

22:33

much money himself, so Dorich reaches

22:35

out to a man named Roe Messner for help.

22:38

Messner is the lead contractor for PTL

22:40

and a close confidant of Baker's. When

22:43

Dorich explains the situation, Messner agrees to

22:46

front the money. Dorich

22:48

tells Messner that he'll pay him back by tacking the

22:50

$265,000 onto Messner's bill for

22:53

Heritage USA construction services. So

22:56

Messner wires the money to Hahn's

22:58

representatives on February 26th, and

23:00

the next day, in the presence of

23:02

a retired judge, Jessica Hahn signs the

23:04

agreement. When

23:07

Jim Baker learns that a settlement has

23:09

been reached, he happily considers the matter

23:11

resolved. He quickly moves on

23:13

with his life and his construction plans

23:15

for a Heritage USA hotel and water

23:17

park. The project costs

23:19

a fortune, and soon PTL's coffers

23:21

are running low. But Baker

23:23

has an idea. To help pay

23:26

for the new building projects, especially the new

23:28

Heritage Grand Hotel, he applies the principles of

23:30

the prosperity gospel and comes up with a

23:32

plan to raise a large amount of money

23:34

in a short amount of time. Baker

23:37

plans to offer lifetime partnerships in

23:40

Heritage USA to his legions of

23:42

TV followers. All donors

23:44

have to do is send $1,000 to PTL,

23:46

and they'll earn the right to claim a

23:48

three-night stay in the hotel every year for

23:51

life. This lifetime partnership

23:53

program proves to be a massive moneymaker,

23:55

but there is a problem. A

23:58

500-room hotel can only accommodate so

24:00

many three-night stays per year. And

24:03

that number is quickly reached. So

24:07

when word gets around that Jim Baker

24:10

is going to offer even more lifetime

24:12

partnerships at an upcoming telethon, PTL's

24:14

Vice President of World Outreach, Steve Nelson,

24:16

assumes there must be some kind of

24:19

a mistake. He tries to

24:21

warn Richard Dorch that there is a fatal flaw

24:23

with the program, one that could

24:25

inadvertently steer PTL into a legal

24:27

catastrophe. But Dorch simply

24:29

dismisses his concerns. So

24:32

in October, 1985, Nelson

24:34

decides to take the problem directly to the

24:36

top. About 10 minutes before

24:38

Jim Baker is scheduled to go on air, Nelson

24:40

jogs down the narrow hallway leading to Baker's

24:42

dressing room and knocks on the door. When

24:45

he enters, he finds Baker sitting in front of

24:47

a mirror lined with high wattage bulbs. He's

24:50

applying on-camera makeup, giving his skin a

24:52

warmer tone. Baker glances

24:54

into the mirror at Nelson's reflection and

24:56

asks him if there's something wrong. Nelson

24:59

looks flushed. Nelson replies that

25:01

there's a serious problem that Baker must

25:03

address immediately as soon as he goes

25:05

on air. Nelson

25:09

explains that lifetime partnerships have

25:11

been oversold. There isn't

25:13

enough space in the Heritage Grand Hotel

25:15

to accommodate everyone every year. So

25:18

Baker must now publicly suspend the program

25:20

and stop selling new partnerships. If

25:23

he doesn't, he could be charged with fraud.

25:25

The TTL's reputation might never recover and

25:27

Baker could even wind up behind bars.

25:30

Baker nods and puts his makeup brush

25:33

down. Then he smiles into the mirror

25:35

and says there's no need for Nelson to worry.

25:37

God will sort everything out. But

25:40

Nelson shakes his head and reminds Baker

25:42

that as his world outreach vice president,

25:44

he supervises donor relations and hotel reservations.

25:47

That means he knows the problem won't go

25:49

away even by divine intervention.

25:52

Baker must halt the lifetime

25:54

partnerships immediately. Baker

25:56

then stands, turns and still grinning

25:59

approaches Nelson. Nelson. He grips

26:01

Nelson's shoulders and tells him everything's going to be

26:03

okay. The Lifetime Partnership Program will

26:05

continue because PTL needs the money and

26:07

the Lord will make miracles to help

26:09

them. There's truly nothing for Nelson

26:12

to be concerned about. Nelson

26:14

staggers back and out of Baker's grasp. Baker

26:17

continues to smile. And then

26:19

there's a knock and through the dressing room

26:21

door Nelson hears the muffled voice of a

26:23

production assistant telling Baker that he's on in

26:25

five. Baker turns away to check

26:27

his reflection one more time as Nelson

26:29

walks out of the dressing room, shoulders

26:31

slumped. Nelson

26:34

then stumbles toward the TV studio where the

26:36

telethon broadcast is about to begin. He

26:39

now understands that the company he works for is

26:41

likely breaking the law and worse,

26:43

no one cares. Nelson wonders how

26:45

much longer he'll be able to stay here. He

26:48

doesn't want to be working for PTL when

26:50

Federal Marshals arrive to take Jim Baker away.

26:56

As Jim Baker gleefully continues to

26:58

sell Lifetime Partnerships, reporter Charles Shepard

27:00

continues to gather facts related to

27:02

the Jessica Hahn story. But it's

27:04

slow going. So far all he's

27:06

managed to get from PTL are

27:08

vague statements and denials. And

27:10

he still has yet to find anyone who can

27:12

corroborate Hahn's version of events. Even

27:15

Hahn herself, since signing her settlement with

27:17

Baker, has gone silent. But

27:19

then finally Shepard gets a lead. During

27:21

his first call with Hahn, she mentioned that

27:24

her rendezvous with Baker had been coordinated by

27:26

a minister named John Wesley Fletcher. At

27:28

the time, Fletcher was a close confidant of Baker's.

27:31

But Shepard learns that Fletcher has since

27:33

been defrocked and ousted from the Assemblies

27:36

of God Church over some troubling rumors

27:38

about his own sexually abusive behavior. So

27:41

in February 1987, Shepard decides to pay Fletcher

27:44

an unexpected visit at his home in

27:46

Oklahoma City. When

27:51

Shepard arrives at Fletcher's address, he finds

27:53

a split-level house on a corner lot

27:55

in a quiet suburban neighborhood. Shepard

27:58

walks up to the front door and rings the

28:00

bell. After a few seconds,

28:02

a clean-shaven middle-aged man in cowboy boots

28:04

and jeans opens the door. He's

28:06

got neatly combed reddish brown hair and cocks his

28:09

head to the side. Shepard takes

28:11

a step forward. John

28:13

Wesley Fletcher? Yeah? My

28:15

name's Charles Shepard. I'm a reporter with a

28:17

Charlotte observer. I'd like to talk to

28:19

you about Jessica Hahn. May I come in? I

28:23

suppose it's only a matter of time. Yeah, come on in. Shepard

28:26

steps into Fletcher's living room, takes a seat

28:28

on a faded brown couch. Fletcher

28:30

sits in a leather easy chair across from him. Now,

28:33

I invited you in because it would be un-Christian

28:35

to do otherwise, but I don't have much to

28:37

say, you see. I prefer

28:40

not to make any comments about Jessica. It's

28:42

a situation that Jim has put behind him.

28:44

Well, it's not behind her. She

28:47

says you flew her down to Florida in 1980, picked

28:50

her up from the airport, then on the drive to

28:52

the hotel told her how good she looked. And

28:54

then you called her a little Christian bimbo.

28:57

She says you did and said a lot worse

28:59

after that. Do you deny it? Fletcher

29:02

sinks into his chair and then begins

29:05

to sob. Once he recovers, he

29:07

looks up. You don't know what I've

29:09

been through. Everything I did, I did

29:11

because that's what Jim Baker wanted. Back

29:13

then, Jim had such a hold on people. I

29:16

would have done anything for him. I

29:18

thought I was saving him and he needed it. He

29:21

was having problems in his marriage. Oh, he

29:23

was in horrible shape. He said if he didn't get help,

29:25

he'd blow his brains out. And Jessica

29:28

was the help you provided? Yes.

29:31

But later I found out the truth about Jim Baker.

29:34

He's an awful, awful man. See,

29:36

when I worked at PTL, some people started

29:38

telling lies about me, said that I was

29:40

an alcoholic, said I was sleeping with men.

29:42

Can you believe it? Well, Jim believed it.

29:45

And I was pushed out of PTL. Jim

29:47

just let it happen. That's why I

29:49

called that one newspaper, the Charlotte News,

29:51

a few years back, talked to reporter

29:54

Matthews or something, Mattingly, Terry Mattingly.

29:56

So that was you, the

29:59

anonymous caller. Yeah, that was me. I'm

30:02

no saint. Well, neither is Jim Baker.

30:04

And I'll tell you, if I have to take

30:06

a fall, well, he deserves to take one too." Shepard

30:10

asks a few more questions, and then thanks

30:13

Fletcher for his time. He says

30:15

he'll be in touch again to confirm a few things

30:17

before his article runs, says his goodbyes,

30:19

and walks out the front door. Outside

30:22

Shepard resists the urge to scream

30:24

in excitement. This is a huge

30:26

break in his story, but he knows he isn't

30:28

done yet. Before he can go

30:30

to print, there are several others he'll need to talk

30:32

to first, including, and most

30:34

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31:22

To many outside observers, the beginning of 1987

31:25

seems to mark a high point in

31:27

Jim Baker's career. He's become

31:29

one of the most recognizable faces in

31:31

Christian media. His ministry claims

31:33

to have 600,000 supporters and annual revenues

31:36

of more than $120 million, and

31:40

he's just broken ground on the

31:42

$100 million Crystal Palace Ministry Center.

31:45

But behind the scenes, Baker's empire is

31:47

close to shattering. PTL

31:49

is unable to continue paying for

31:51

its construction projects. Angry

31:53

donors are demanding refunds on their lifetime

31:55

partnerships when they learn that the Heritage

31:58

Grand Hotel is overbooked. and

32:00

in late February 1987, PTL

32:02

executive vice president Richard Dorch learns

32:04

that the Charlotte Observer is planning

32:06

to publish Charles Shepherd's story about

32:09

the Jessica Hahn scandal next month.

32:13

Dorch shifts into damage control immediately.

32:16

He delivers a statement to Charles

32:18

Shepherd dismissing Hahn's allegations as unsubstantiated

32:20

rumor, then Dorch appears on

32:23

PTL programming and reminds viewers that Jesus

32:25

said we have to forgive in every

32:27

situation for every problem. Jim

32:30

and his wife Tammy Faye appear

32:32

on PTL days later and tearfully

32:34

reveal that Tammy is undergoing treatment

32:36

for prescription drug dependency. Jim

32:38

alludes to past marriage troubles and

32:41

it all seems like a calculated effort

32:43

to win sympathy from viewers and also

32:45

prepare them for the revelations to come.

32:50

And Dorch knows there's no stopping those

32:52

revelations. So in a last-ditch effort

32:54

to gain some control over the narrative, Dorch

32:56

hires a New York-based lawyer named Roy Grutman

32:59

and shortly before the Charlotte Observer story is

33:01

set to publish, Grutman calls the

33:03

paper, promising to arrange an interview with

33:06

Jim Baker and Richard Dorch so they

33:08

can explain themselves. But before

33:10

he speaks to the media, Baker realizes that

33:12

the time has come for him to break

33:14

the news to his wife. After

33:16

a stint in rehab, Tammy Faye Baker

33:19

retreated to the couple's new house in

33:21

California where she's been staying ever since.

33:24

And on a warm afternoon in March 1987, Tammy

33:27

sighs as she reclines into an outdoor lounge

33:29

chair by her swimming pool. The

33:31

house has been a true oasis for her

33:33

after the difficulties she's dealt with lately. Jim

33:37

has been more distant than ever, constantly

33:40

in meeting with advisors, meetings he won't

33:42

discuss. But Tammy tries not to think

33:44

about Jim. After years of

33:46

combating depression by abusing prescription medication,

33:48

she is now proud to be

33:50

drug-free for more than 30 days.

33:53

So now she just wants to remain here

33:55

by the pool and relax until the sun

33:57

sets. But then Tammy hears the

34:00

screech of the sliding glass door and

34:02

turns to see Jim. His

34:04

shoulders are slumped, and he's looking pale.

34:06

His voice is hoarse as he asks

34:08

Tammy to come inside, saying they need

34:10

to talk. Tammy rises

34:12

slowly, ties her robe, and then

34:14

follows Jim to the bedroom. She

34:17

asks what's wrong, but he won't respond, and

34:20

Tammy feels her heart begin to pound. It's

34:22

obvious that something terrible has happened. Jim

34:28

closes the bedroom door behind them. You,

34:31

uh, you should probably have

34:33

a seat, Tammy. Why? What's wrong? Just

34:35

sit down, please. Tammy

34:38

goes over to the white couch near their

34:40

four-poster bed and sits. Tammy,

34:43

I… Jim

34:46

starts to speak, but stops. Jim,

34:49

what do you want to tell me to say it? Oh, Lord,

34:51

help me. Tammy.

34:54

Jim begins to pace. Tam,

34:57

I need to tell you something that happened seven years

34:59

ago. I never said anything

35:01

before, because everyone told me not to. I

35:04

wanted to tell you, many times. But,

35:07

Tam, seven years ago, I met a woman, and

35:09

I had sex with her one time, and I

35:11

have never seen her since. The

35:13

reason I'm telling you is because I believe she's

35:16

trying to blackmail me, but it's going to be

35:18

all right now, because Jerry Falwell says he wants

35:20

to help. We're going to meet

35:22

with Jerry tomorrow. Sh-shut, shut up. Just

35:24

stop. Stop talking. I'm sorry, Tam. I'm

35:26

so sorry. Jim takes

35:29

a step forward. Please forgive me.

35:31

Then he tries to put his arms around

35:33

Tammy. She shoves him back. No.

35:36

Tammy, I… How could you possibly be so

35:38

stupid? What if she'd gotten pregnant? What if

35:41

you'd caught some disease? Did you even use

35:43

protection? I wasn't thinking. No, you

35:45

weren't. Not about me or your

35:47

children or what this could do to us. Things

35:50

were so different back then. You have

35:52

to believe me. We were going through a really

35:54

hard time, remember? I thought our marriage was over.

35:56

You had Gary Paxton. Don't you dare try to

35:58

defend what you're doing. you've done by bringing him

36:01

up. Nothing happened between me and him and

36:03

you know it. I'm sorry, Tammy, you're

36:05

right. Just tell

36:07

me what I need to do. Tell me how to fix this. I'll

36:09

do anything. Tears begin to pour

36:11

from Tammy's eyes. Was she

36:14

beautiful? Is that why you did it?

36:16

I want to know. Tam, I don't even remember what she

36:18

looks like. Oh, get out. Get

36:20

out. Jim nods, hanging his

36:23

head, and walks out of the bedroom. Tammy

36:27

shoves the door closed behind him. She

36:29

shuts her eyes tight and collapses onto the

36:31

bed, feeling sick to her stomach. But

36:33

one thing's clear to her, there will be no

36:36

divorce. God hates divorce because

36:38

he does not want to see families divided.

36:41

Tammy understands that now much better than

36:43

before, after 17 years of

36:45

motherhood. So though her heart is

36:47

broken, she will do her best to

36:49

forgive Jim. She will do it for

36:51

her children and her faith, and hopefully

36:53

the Baker family will figure out a way

36:56

to get through this together. Only

37:01

a few days after Jim Baker confessed

37:04

to his wife, Tammy, Charles Shepherd and

37:06

several of his fellow Charlotte Observer staffers

37:08

gather in an editor's office. It's

37:10

time for the much anticipated phone interview

37:12

with Jim Baker and Richard Dorch. Shepherd

37:15

is eager to hear what they have to say

37:17

and knows the article that will follow is likely

37:19

to be a bombshell. Shepherd

37:21

slides a cassette into his tape recorder and places

37:23

it next to a brand new notepad on the

37:25

desk in front of him. Shepherd then

37:28

exhales slowly as he looks at the many

37:30

high-ranking colleagues that have joined him here this

37:32

afternoon. Even the publisher is present.

37:35

Everyone, it seems, is eager to hear what Jim

37:37

Baker has to say. The

37:41

men are in the office of the Observer's

37:43

editor, Rich Oppel, Shepherd's boss's boss, but

37:45

Oppel said it was only right that Shepherd be the

37:48

one to sit behind the desk today. A

37:50

more than two-year investigation by Shepherd is about

37:52

to culminate with this call, and

37:55

Shepherd's decided that when he speaks to Baker

37:57

and Dorch, he will be fair but firm.

38:00

He wants Baker to tell the truth about

38:02

his past relationship with Jessica Hahn. He

38:05

wants him to address her assault accusation, and

38:07

he wants to know if PTL attempted to

38:09

keep Hahn quiet with hush money. Then

38:12

the moment that everyone's waiting for comes when the

38:14

phone rings. Shepard hits the red

38:16

button on his tape recorder, and then answers the

38:18

phone. On the other end,

38:20

lawyer Roy Gruttman announces that Baker and Dorc

38:23

are also on the line via conference call.

38:27

Shepard begins to ask his first

38:29

question, but Gruttman interrupts. He

38:31

says that before they can get to anything else, Baker

38:33

wants to read a prepared statement. Then,

38:36

on the speakerphone, a man

38:38

clears his throat several times, and then begins

38:41

to speak. The voice is so

38:43

shaky that it takes Shepard a few seconds to

38:45

recognize it as Baker's. He

38:47

says that he and Tammy Fay have

38:49

been subjected to harassment by various groups

38:51

bent on their destruction. Baker

38:53

says that the attacks have taken a personal

38:56

toll, and more than he and his family

38:58

can bear. Shepard almost

39:00

rolls his eyes, knowing where this is going, and

39:02

sure enough, Baker declares that in light of

39:05

the present strain he has decided, for the

39:07

good of his wife and children, to resign

39:09

as president of PTL. He will

39:11

step down and leave the company immediately. As

39:16

Shepard furiously jots down notes, Baker's

39:18

voice then suddenly hardens. He

39:21

says that he's been appalled by the campaign

39:23

to defame and vilify him. He

39:25

categorically denies that he has ever

39:27

sexually assaulted or harassed anyone. That

39:30

said, he sorrowfully acknowledges that seven

39:32

years prior, he was wickedly manipulated

39:34

by treacherous former friends who victimized

39:37

him with the aid of a

39:39

female Confederate. Shepard

39:41

continues scribbling notes furiously and marveling

39:43

at what he's hearing, but he

39:45

shouldn't be surprised it's classic Jim

39:47

Baker, assigning blame anywhere but on

39:49

himself. Baker

39:53

then adds that he sought and gratefully received

39:55

the loving forgiveness of Jesus. He's

39:57

told Tammy everything, and she has forgiven him too.

39:59

too. Their love is greater

40:01

and stronger than ever. And now

40:04

it's time to focus on the future. The

40:06

PTL board of directors has accepted his

40:09

resignation and appointed minister and fellow televangelist

40:11

Jerry Falwell as its new chairman. Falwell

40:14

will assume control of PTL and designate

40:16

a new board of directors. Baker

40:19

then says he hopes God will bless everyone on

40:21

the call and hangs up. Mayor

40:26

Gruttman then announces he'll take over the call from here

40:28

on out. Editor Rich Opel interjects

40:30

to say he wants to know just exactly

40:32

how much Jessica Hahn was paid and if

40:34

the money was paid with PTL funds. Gruttman

40:37

replies that the transaction with the lady

40:39

in question was free of any wrongdoing.

40:42

It was a matter handled confidentially by

40:44

attorneys working on behalf of Jim Baker,

40:46

who intends to maintain that confidence. If

40:49

anyone wants to find someone willing to breach

40:51

that agreement, they're welcome to ask the lady

40:53

and her representatives. Without his

40:55

answer, not once does Gruttman mention Jessica Hahn

40:58

by name. Then Gruttman adds

41:00

that the important thing everyone must remember is this.

41:03

The claims made by the woman in question

41:05

were an exaggeration. She has misrepresented

41:07

the event that took place on December

41:09

5th, 1980 and therefore she is not

41:11

the victim here. There is

41:13

only one victim, Jim Baker. Shepherd

41:17

shakes his head at the outrageousness of that statement

41:19

as he begins to compose the final lines of

41:21

the Hahn article in his head. With

41:24

Baker's confirmation of the affair, Shepherd knows he

41:26

can publish his story tomorrow. He

41:28

can't predict what will happen after that, but he

41:30

knows one thing. The revelation

41:32

of Jim Baker's transgressions and the

41:35

announcement of his resignation will stun

41:37

PTL's loyal followers and

41:39

everyone who's watched Jim and Tammy Faye

41:41

Baker's rise to fame. From

41:48

Wundery, this is episode two of

41:50

Jim and Tammy Faye Baker for

41:52

American Scandal. On our next episode,

41:54

Jim Baker grapples with the messy

41:56

realities of his resignation. Then

41:58

he prepares for what will happen. become one of

42:01

the most sensationalized trials of the decade.

42:11

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge American

42:13

Scandal early and ad-free right now.

42:15

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery

42:17

app or on Apple Podcasts. If

42:19

you enjoy American Scandal, be sure to give

42:22

us a five-star rating and leave a review.

42:24

I read every one of them. I also

42:26

have two other Wondery podcasts you might like,

42:28

American History Tellers and Business Movers. Follow American

42:31

Scandal on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or

42:33

wherever you get your podcasts.

42:35

You can binge all episodes of

42:37

American Scandal early and ad-free right

42:39

now by joining Wondery Plus in

42:41

the Wondery app or on Apple

42:43

Podcasts. And before you go, tell

42:45

us about yourself by completing a

42:47

short survey at wondery.com/survey. And to

42:49

find out more about me, including my

42:52

other podcasts, go to

42:54

notthatlindseygram.com. That's notthatlindseygram.com. If

43:00

you'd like to learn more about Jim

43:02

and Tammy Faye Baker, we recommend the

43:04

books Forgiven by Charles Shepherd, PTL by

43:06

John Wigger, Tammy Telling It My Way

43:08

by Tammy Faye Messner, and I Was

43:10

Wrong by Jim Baker. This

43:13

episode contains reenactments and dramatized

43:15

details. And while in most

43:17

cases we can't know exactly what was said,

43:19

all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

43:22

American Scandal is hosted, edited, and executive

43:24

produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for