0:00

One. Reply subscribers can binge New Seasons

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of American Scandal early and and free

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right now. Join Wonder A Plus and

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the Wonder Yap or on Apple podcasts.

0:20

From wondering, I'm Lindsey Graham. And

0:23

this is Americans. Came. In

0:44

the late nineteen seventies, ordinary residents of

0:46

a suburban community and Niagara Falls, New

0:48

York began smelling chemical odors in their

0:51

homes and experiencing strange ailments. It turned

0:53

out that their neighborhood was built on

0:55

top of land previously used as a

0:58

dumping ground for toxic chemicals. The site

1:00

known as Love Canal became a source

1:02

of contentious debate over how to solve

1:05

the areas problems. It wasn't until a

1:07

group of determined women from the community

1:09

join together to speak out that the

1:11

disaster it Love Canal was exposed. Many.

1:14

Of these women were forced to become activists

1:16

overnight in order to protect their children and

1:19

keep their family safe. Their. Fight

1:21

against big corporations and political power

1:23

sparked some of the modern day

1:25

environmental legislation we have today. My.

1:28

Guess Today is Keith O'brien author

1:30

of Paradise Falls the true story

1:32

of an environmental catastrophe. Through original

1:34

reporting an indepth interviews O'brien brings

1:37

to life the human stories at

1:39

the heart of this environmental disaster

1:41

or conversation. This next. American

1:51

Scandal is sponsored by Audible. I like clever

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3:14

O'brien Welcome to American Scandal. They.

3:16

So much rather me. Now. The story

3:18

of Love Canal is not a well

3:20

known one. How did you first become

3:22

interested in telling the story? I'm.

3:25

A historian I am, and a

3:27

journalist. I'm an author and like

3:29

every storyteller, I'm always looking for

3:32

stories. And the book I did

3:34

before this one was about female

3:36

pilots in the nineteen twenties and

3:39

thirties fighting for the right to

3:41

fly and race planes. And one

3:43

of the things that I sort

3:46

of mourn the while I was

3:48

writing that book Lindsay was that

3:51

all the protagonists were gone. They

3:53

had all died long ago. And

3:55

and most troubling was that

3:57

they had died in obscurity.

4:00

The Are No one had gone searching

4:02

for them to to tell their story

4:04

near the end of their lives and

4:06

so when it came out of that

4:08

projects. I. Was looking around at

4:10

the landscape in I was thinking

4:12

about that a lot. You know

4:14

who are the people around us

4:17

right now who had maybe once

4:19

done something meaningful, but had now

4:21

been forgotten and without? I started

4:23

looking at the Nineteen seventies and

4:25

I was born in the seventies.

4:28

I have some snapshot memories of

4:30

the Nineteen Seventies. I remember the

4:32

blizzard of Nineteen Seventy Seven. I

4:34

remember the gas lines I remember,

4:36

or the hostage crisis and. Or

4:39

President Carter struggling with that. And

4:41

I did remember this place called

4:43

while the Canal but I didn't

4:45

remember much about him and really,

4:47

that's where this all began for

4:50

me. While. I was born in

4:52

the Nineteen seventies as well, and that was

4:54

a decade of quite a bit of pummeled.

4:56

How did you pick? Love Canal? What was

4:58

most compelling about that story, in particular? For.

5:01

Me: it's the human story.

5:03

This to me was always the

5:06

story of a neighborhood. the story

5:08

of families living in that neighborhood.

5:10

I think all too often though,

5:13

when people have written about Love

5:15

Canal, it's it's been told as

5:17

a chemical story. And to be

5:20

clear, there's a lot of wrestling

5:22

with that problem in my book

5:24

in my narrative, But to me

5:26

this was a human story and

5:29

early on I connected with a

5:31

couple of those people. I did.

5:33

Early phone interviews with a woman

5:36

named the well as Kenny and

5:38

and a second woman named Lois

5:40

Gibbs and these were at the

5:43

time in the Nineteen seventies Mom's

5:45

your who who just lived in

5:47

the neighborhood and and we're raising

5:50

their children in this neighborhood. And

5:52

he was through the early interviews

5:54

with them. That. I began

5:56

to sketch the Ghazi outlines of

5:59

this narrative and and really identifies

6:01

early on you know what the

6:03

story was about. To me this

6:06

was the Bowels, a neighborhood that

6:08

had been built on top of

6:11

and around a former a chemical

6:13

landfill and this to year fight

6:15

essentially to escape that neighborhood once

6:18

the truth became known and and

6:20

when you think about it in

6:22

that way and in the human

6:25

way and the way that one

6:27

might think about it if it

6:30

was. One's own neighborhood. I think

6:32

that's just an incredibly compelling story, and

6:34

that's why I wanted to dig into

6:36

it. I'm glad you use

6:38

center the word neighborhood because who was living there?

6:40

What did it look like? Will. You

6:43

know most of us have this

6:45

one impression of Niagara Falls and

6:48

it's the waterfalls with many of

6:50

us have probably written on the

6:52

made of the miss, but you

6:55

know Niagara Falls is a real

6:57

place. and in the early and

6:59

mid twentieth century, it was one

7:02

of the fastest growing cities in

7:04

America. and it was growing. Not

7:07

really because of the waterfalls at

7:09

all, or it was growing because

7:11

of corporate investments. And specifically

7:14

the investments of chemical

7:16

companies are just a

7:18

couple of miles ah

7:20

up river from those

7:22

famous waterfalls the people

7:24

can envision is is

7:26

of a row of

7:28

chemical companies that.the landscape

7:30

there. People moved

7:32

to Niagara Falls primarily for

7:34

jobs in those chemical plants.

7:37

and in the early twentieth

7:39

century as Niagara Falls begins

7:41

to boom of the population

7:44

pushes east to this stretch

7:46

of farmland that was called

7:48

was South End. What pops

7:51

up there? Lindsey is really

7:53

sort of an ideal American

7:55

neighborhood, or a school is

7:57

built in the heart. The

8:00

neighborhood called the Ninety Ninth

8:02

Street School in a neighborhood

8:04

grows around it and these

8:07

are working class families. Know.

8:09

People who who came to Niagara

8:11

Falls for those chemical plant jobs

8:14

and and we're we're scraping clawing

8:16

their way to to the middle

8:18

class on the backs of those

8:20

jobs. And and these homes in

8:23

this neighborhood which was then again

8:25

called with Soule were single family

8:27

ranches. Not a single two story

8:29

home was built in that neighborhood.

8:32

They were all ran says all

8:34

working class families and one of

8:36

the key things I wanted to

8:38

do with. My book was paint

8:41

This picture of paradise because

8:43

that is really what it

8:45

was. It was suburban paradise.

8:47

That's the kind of thing

8:49

that lots of families wants.

8:51

Good schools, nice yards, affordable

8:53

housing. That's what Lasalle offered

8:55

to families are in the

8:57

nineteen fifties and sixties when

8:59

when folks started to to

9:01

move out there and roads.

9:04

Now. The Nineteen Seventies, as we mentioned,

9:06

is an serious decade, one of

9:08

a lot of political strife, social

9:11

strife, and I'm environmental disasters. Bp

9:13

A itself didn't exist until Nineteen

9:15

seventy. So why did you pick

9:17

this disaster? This environmental catastrophe to

9:19

focus on? What? You're right.

9:22

I mean there are many

9:24

environmental crises, say in the

9:26

Nineteen sixties and into the

9:28

early Nineteen seventies. The thing

9:30

is, the Environmental movement. While

9:32

something that was happening America

9:34

in the Nineteen seventies really

9:36

is a marginal movement, it

9:39

is one that the average

9:41

American believes is just for

9:43

progressive. It's one that the

9:45

average American believes is something

9:47

that is you know only

9:49

important on the. East

9:51

Coast or the West Coast and

9:54

in the progressive cities along those

9:56

coasts. And I think is why

9:58

the Love Canal. Story is

10:00

so important. This was, as

10:03

I said, oh, a working

10:05

class neighborhood. People who live

10:07

in this neighborhood like Lois

10:09

Gibbs like Luella Kenny begin

10:11

to learn the secrets that

10:13

are buried in the ground

10:15

and begin to rally against

10:17

those secrets and rally for

10:20

their own escape. They're doing

10:22

something that they never imagine

10:24

themselves doing. They're becoming activists,

10:26

and in doing so are

10:28

they are showing average. Americans

10:30

across the country that they

10:33

do need to be concerned

10:35

about what's in. There are

10:37

water in their soil. I

10:40

in in their neighborhoods. Really,

10:42

the Love Canal story brings

10:44

environmentalism to the mainstream. Regarding.

10:47

These secrets buried in the ground. I guess

10:49

it's important to to ask how they got

10:52

there in the first place and what were

10:54

the the early signs that are? they might

10:56

be getting out. Of my

10:58

gosh, it's such an interesting

11:00

story. a story of so

11:02

many dominoes. As a said,

11:04

the of this neighborhood wasn't

11:06

called Love Canal, it was

11:08

called Lasalle. A full eighty

11:10

years before the problems begin

11:13

to emerge in the neighborhood.

11:15

Ah, a man comes to

11:17

Niagara Falls with a dream.

11:19

And that man's name was William T.

11:22

Love. And you know in previous books

11:24

that have been written about this subject,

11:26

people have often said, whoa, We don't

11:28

know where William See Love came from.

11:30

We don't know how he got there.

11:33

I did a ton of work on

11:35

that actually and I can tell you

11:37

exactly who Williams he love was. I

11:40

see was a businessman who had invested

11:42

it's I and builds a small rail

11:44

roads in the Dakota Territory's in the

11:47

eighteen hundreds and then it moved around

11:49

a bit and was a bit of

11:51

a drifter and a bit of a

11:54

grifter. He was the kind of guy

11:56

who could roll into a town in

11:58

the eighteen hundreds. Then declare

12:00

that he was going to do

12:03

big things like build a railroad

12:05

or or open a coal mine,

12:07

or in this case build a

12:10

canal. And wins He

12:12

loves Ideal. Wasn't actually knew

12:14

when he arrives in Niagara

12:16

Falls in the eighteen nineties.

12:19

See latches onto an idea

12:21

that's been floating around the

12:23

Niagara reason for a couple

12:25

of decades. Many people had

12:27

debated building essentially a cut

12:30

through canal or that would

12:32

skirt the waterfalls which were

12:34

obviously on navigable by boat

12:36

or by ship. The. Problem

12:39

is it was very difficult

12:41

to build and Eleven mile

12:43

canal. Ah, especially at the

12:45

time when William See Love

12:47

begins eyes. he quickly or

12:50

loses investors as the economy

12:52

sours in the eighteen nineties.

12:54

And while he has started

12:56

to build this canal, it

12:59

never gets completed. In fact,

13:01

it never makes it more

13:03

than even a mile. And

13:05

so when William See Love

13:07

disappears from. The landscape and

13:10

Niagara Falls and away he's

13:12

disappeared from town before he

13:14

leaves essentially or this ditz

13:16

in the ground that says

13:18

sitting there in this this

13:21

this old abandoned to now

13:23

does sit there for for

13:25

many years unused are in

13:27

instill a companies in Niagara

13:29

Falls a begin to use

13:32

it as a dumping ground.

13:34

Ah and and specifically one

13:36

companies are set it's sights.

13:38

On this old to now the

13:41

Love Canal or and not company's

13:43

name is Hooker Chemical. So.

13:45

Then Hooker Chemical begins using the

13:47

canal as a dumping ground for

13:49

their industrial waste. When did they

13:51

begin to realize that this land

13:54

might be harmful? Might. Pose risks

13:56

to residents. I assumed that they were

13:58

watching all along. The city

14:00

bought the land from them and then

14:02

planned a community over it. Will.

14:05

They were, so you know. Hooker

14:07

Chemical is one of the biggest

14:09

companies in town, where the largest

14:11

employers in town. It is at

14:14

times in the twentieth century, the

14:16

largest industrial tax payer and town.

14:18

It's a very profitable, unsuccessful chemical

14:20

company, as they use the To

14:22

now as a dumping ground, especially

14:24

in the post war years. In

14:27

the nineteen forties or in the

14:29

nineteen fifties, they sell it's hover

14:31

chemical does to the city of

14:33

Not A Falls and thus. Or

14:35

the school Board of for a

14:37

dollar and up goes that scored

14:40

And around it goes that neighborhood

14:42

And the question you have ass

14:44

Lindsay is is one of the

14:46

most contentious questions of all. Are

14:48

you know, what are they now

14:50

and when did they know it

14:52

and any will lead Zoo You

14:54

know, years and frankly, decades of

14:57

lawsuits between residents of the city

14:59

and Hooker Chemical. But but the

15:01

the Just as it is this

15:03

eyes according to internal documents. Even

15:05

in the nineteen fifties, Ah,

15:07

there was concern. Among

15:10

hooker executives about selling this land

15:12

odd to the city and to

15:14

the Board of Education because it

15:16

was clear what the Board of

15:18

Education intended to do, they were

15:20

going to build that school and

15:23

end. you know over the years

15:25

or the problems there at the

15:27

school. Ah, Were a

15:29

parents if not a residence

15:31

then at least two people

15:33

in power and Niagara Falls

15:35

Us fires broke out on

15:37

that land for reasons that

15:39

no one understood. up. On.

15:41

At least one occasion a

15:44

buried chemical drum exploded on

15:46

a quiet weekend morning, scattering

15:49

it's contents on nearby homes

15:51

and and silver in spoke

15:53

of something that seemed absurd

15:56

is preposterous. They said that

15:58

they could find. Rock on

16:00

this land, on this playground,

16:02

on this or in around

16:05

this school that would burst

16:07

into flames and and I

16:09

want to be clear, you

16:11

know rocks don't burst into

16:13

flames was essentially these soldiers

16:15

were fine. Name was clumps

16:17

of congealed chemical residue which

16:19

would spark apparently ah when

16:21

thrown at the ground or

16:23

when skips upon water sylph.

16:25

All these problems or bubbling

16:27

beneath the surface. they are.

16:30

Well known again to People

16:32

in Power and Niagara Falls,

16:34

it is only in Nineteen

16:37

Seventy Seven, Nineteen Seventy Aids

16:39

or that the problems now

16:42

become more widespread and better

16:44

known to all chemicals and

16:47

and their waists and residues

16:49

are now see been into

16:51

people's backyards, into people's basement

16:54

stairs and odor in the

16:56

neighborhood especially right around the

16:59

old now. The old dumping

17:01

ground on that is notable or

17:03

to all And this begins ultimately

17:05

the fight in the middle of

17:08

it all, or the fight of

17:10

these families to to understand what

17:12

is happening and to escape their

17:15

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Of the and hundred dollar theater.

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America. As

18:07

before, Lindsay for to fifty third, Love to see these

18:09

calls like a lot of ice cream. Service Forty.

18:15

Six vs if. You.

18:26

Put a lot of effort into researching

18:28

your book. About one hundred and thirty

18:30

hours of interviews and out there of

18:32

their interviews with people we are now

18:34

familiar with. Lowest Gibbs, Luella, Kenny Beverly

18:36

Pagan Sodas you though first identify who

18:38

was at the center of the story.

18:41

Well. Lowest Gibbs was it was

18:43

the first one and now is

18:45

easy to identify as any one

18:47

gains a measure of same out

18:49

of what happens in this neighborhood

18:51

in the late Nineteen seventies. It's

18:54

it's Lowest Gibbs. Ah, the others.

18:56

We're we're we're harder. You know?

18:58

I'm yeah. I mentioned before that

19:00

Luella Kenny was was one of

19:02

my first interviews. End of The

19:04

Well Attendees is unlike many of

19:06

the protagonists in the story, including

19:08

Lois. I'm still lives in Western

19:11

New York. Ah just a

19:13

few miles from from her old

19:15

neighborhood there in the home that

19:17

she had on ninety six streets.

19:20

And to meet you know the

19:22

well oh was clearly and importance

19:24

of persons ah because of of

19:27

what what's at stake for her

19:29

and in what see frankly loses

19:31

and then what she does as

19:34

a result of those losses so

19:36

well it's any was with to

19:38

me at obviously important odd character.

19:41

Or and protagonists but the others you

19:43

mention were less obvious. Yeah. And

19:46

one of those less obvious characters was Bonnie,

19:48

Casper, a woman that we didn't really cover

19:50

in our series tell us about her. Into

19:53

my books. Bonnie Caspers name

19:55

That the name of this

19:57

woman who was a legit.

20:00

The to the aid for for

20:02

the congressman from Western New York

20:04

have appeared nowhere in in newspaper

20:07

stories. If you were going to

20:09

use the list to say newspaper

20:11

coverage or television footage as the

20:14

basis of of your words, you

20:16

would have never found Funny Casper

20:18

And so I had never heard

20:21

her name. I only learned of

20:23

Bonnie's name while doing interviews with

20:25

saw that the congressmen for whom

20:28

she works odds on the false.

20:30

And he was in doing interviews

20:33

with John Dad See began to

20:35

mention Bonnie's names and said you

20:37

know that I really needed to

20:40

try to find her end ultimately

20:42

with which on the false as

20:44

help I did find her And

20:47

you know body long ago left

20:49

government's left behind and environmental work

20:51

in a when I found her

20:54

a few years ago. See was

20:56

a commercial real estate agent in

20:59

suburban Maryland but. This moment

21:01

in Bonnie's life in the Nineteen

21:03

seventies was one of the most

21:05

formative and most important. I

21:08

did a lot of interviews with her

21:10

because it frankly Bonnie knew what was

21:12

happening in the neighborhood. it's even before

21:14

the residents did and was struggling to

21:17

wrap her mind around it and struggling

21:19

to get her boss John the False

21:21

and and others in Congress to pay

21:23

attention to it. And you know I

21:25

learned that not as from interviews with

21:28

By of Up from documents the Bonnie

21:30

taps in one of my first interviews

21:32

is Bonnie Kaspersky Mention that. See.

21:35

Had cats, boxes of documents,

21:37

And in when I went and

21:40

visited her in suburban Maryland and

21:42

interviewed her in person in the

21:44

commercial real estate office where she

21:46

worked at the time see brought

21:48

these records with her. And.

21:50

I had underestimated frankly what see

21:52

men's when she said that she

21:54

had kept boxes or because I

21:57

that day I had to go

21:59

and. Hi a second piece

22:01

of luggage. I'm just so that

22:03

I could bring his or her

22:06

documents are home with me some

22:08

to review them. And in those

22:11

documents was a memo that Bonnie

22:13

Rights to her boss John the

22:15

False in June Nineteen Seventy Seven

22:18

And this is your sixty eight

22:20

months before Lowest Gibbs will even

22:22

know what's happening in our neighborhood.

22:25

And Body Rights as she's gone

22:27

the ones that day with too.

22:30

Worried city officials from Niagara

22:32

Falls who have come down

22:34

to Washington inserts of Health

22:36

and in of money or

22:38

because it's chemical drums were

22:40

cresting out of the ground

22:42

on the east side of

22:44

town are in and around

22:46

a playground or that encircled

22:48

a school the Ninety Ninth

22:50

Street School. And you know

22:52

this letter to meet with

22:54

like journalism. Gold as story

22:56

and gold it's It's the

22:58

moments your body has. Gone to

23:00

lunch with these two men, comes

23:03

back to her office and and

23:05

begin soon a write this letter

23:07

to John the False and that

23:09

the story with Beverly Pagan was

23:11

frankly the same Lindsay Beverly Pagan

23:14

was a scientists not. I'm a

23:16

resident in the neighborhood I and

23:18

and see to help these these

23:20

women and these mothers us and

23:23

the residents of the neighborhood at

23:25

large I as and she does

23:27

so at great risk to herself.

23:30

Because I in the nineteen

23:32

seventies, Beverly Pagan wasn't just

23:34

a Phd level biologists who

23:36

specialized in the environments I

23:38

see works for a state

23:41

lab in Buffalo. And so

23:43

when Beverly Pagan begins to

23:45

make statements first privately and

23:47

then publicly or that go

23:50

against what her superiors and

23:52

in the state capital in

23:54

Albany or same sees putting

23:56

her for rear risk, her

23:58

job at risk in and

24:01

and props even more. Let's.

24:03

Go back to Luella Kenny for a second.

24:05

She has perhaps the most heartbreaking story. Tell

24:08

us more about what you learned about her.

24:11

The Well he can. He lives

24:13

on Ninety Sixth Street and and

24:15

seed lives there in the nineteen

24:17

seventies with her husband Norman and

24:20

and her three boys again in

24:22

a neighborhood that was already sort

24:24

of this suburban paradise. The Well

24:26

as was especially is so he

24:28

was located at sort of an

24:31

elbow and the road and modified

24:33

called a Sack their backs up

24:35

ah into a confluence of three

24:37

creaks at have a much bigger

24:40

backyard than most homes. In the

24:42

neighborhood and the the Kenny boys loved

24:44

so to rob him play in those

24:46

creaks. But in Nineteen Seventy eight. right?

24:49

About the time that Lois

24:51

Gibbs is beginning to learn

24:53

about the secrets buried beneath

24:55

the school, The Well as

24:58

youngest son saw now and

25:00

or begins to get sick

25:02

ah with a mysterious set

25:04

of symptoms that the local

25:07

doctors cannot decipher. This illness

25:09

is going to change everything

25:11

for the Kenny family forever.

25:13

I interviewed the well as

25:15

about what happened to John

25:18

Allen Kenny. But I

25:20

didn't just have to rely

25:22

on memories when interviewing the

25:24

well attorney eyes see kept

25:27

everything just like Bonnie Casper

25:29

see tap. The most importantly:

25:31

her son's entire medical file.

25:34

Hundreds of pages of notes,

25:36

tests, documents of about his

25:38

struggles in in Nineteen Seventy

25:41

Eight. And so because of

25:43

that I was able to

25:45

bring John Allen them back

25:48

to life. Really are on

25:50

the pages of the blocks

25:52

so that we to see

25:54

how these secrets and how

25:56

this scandal could ah frankly

25:58

destroy, ah. Family and in

26:01

real time. Our where'd you

26:03

things will well a was of the

26:05

toxic chemicals in the area as her

26:08

son was becoming sick. When did the

26:10

connection. Click for her. In

26:12

Niagara Falls in the nineteen seventies,

26:15

there was a similarity with chemicals

26:17

that you know we would probably

26:19

find shocking. today. There were times

26:22

when clouds of of noxious fumes

26:24

would would drifts overhead from those

26:26

plants along the river. Like I

26:29

mentioned and and and many families,

26:31

you know how to at least

26:33

one spouse who who works in

26:36

those factory. So there was sort

26:38

of a familiarity with chemicals, but

26:40

with the well up there. Was

26:43

no knowledge of what was

26:45

buried beneath the school. There

26:47

was no knowledge that Hooker

26:49

Chemical had once used this

26:51

old canal as as a

26:53

dumping ground for it's residues

26:55

and wastes. End you

26:58

notice. He told me that even

27:00

when John Allen get sick in

27:02

the summer of Nineteen Seventy Eight

27:05

when now there are starting to

27:07

be meetings and and stories in

27:10

the newspaper about what is buried

27:12

in the ground Luella was to

27:14

stress she said to to think

27:17

much about it I and in

27:19

and as a parent myself you

27:22

know I understand that you anyone

27:24

whose parents of have multiple children

27:26

young. Children knows that at times

27:29

it it's just a struggle to

27:31

to get through the day. And

27:33

then on top of all, that's

27:36

Ah. You're John Allen Ten is

27:38

now gravely ill, in and out

27:40

of the hospital the entire summer

27:43

of Nineteen Seventy Eight. She simply

27:45

didn't have the bandwidth ah to

27:47

think about how the chemicals in

27:50

the neighborhood might be connected. What

27:52

was happening to her son? He

27:54

was only later. It was only

27:57

after. His death I

27:59

see. Again, to wrestle with

28:01

this and see was uniquely

28:03

equipped to to do that.

28:06

Because Luella wasn't just a

28:08

mother, I see was herself

28:10

or scientists or and a

28:12

researcher. And so in the

28:14

weeks and months after John

28:16

Allen death l the well

28:19

A begins to do was

28:21

a research or he or

28:23

she begins to go to

28:25

the library and see begins

28:27

to live L inside medical

28:29

journals. And as she does

28:32

that eyes see begins to

28:34

connect the dots and realize

28:36

that the problems that her

28:38

son was facing in the

28:40

summer of Nineteen Seventy Eight

28:42

the were quite likely connected

28:44

in some way or the

28:46

chemicals or because again and

28:48

again in the medical research

28:50

people who suffer from the

28:53

symptoms that he suffered from

28:55

were chemical workers, not little

28:57

boys, And. Finally, of this

28:59

pantheon of courageous women, there's there's

29:01

Lois Gives We mentioned her at

29:03

the top. She became the face

29:05

of a campaign to fight the

29:07

Love Canal. Trashy. What do you

29:09

think drove her a person who

29:11

was a admittedly reluctant to get

29:13

a spotlight to speak and public?

29:15

What drove her to push for

29:17

change to to go up against

29:19

big corporations and government officials? You.

29:22

Know when all this begins Low

29:24

as Gibbs just has a simple

29:26

request. Her oldest son,

29:28

Michael has just started attending

29:31

school at the Ninety Ninth

29:33

Street School and he's now

29:35

suffering from from seizures and

29:37

in her early request she

29:39

simply asks, see says that

29:42

he be moved to a

29:44

different public school the following

29:46

fall. I've often wondered. you

29:48

know how the story might be

29:50

different had that request been satisfied.

29:54

But school officials don't. See

29:57

told that the school says that

29:59

her. One is in no

30:01

danger there and and frustrated

30:03

by by that lowest begins

30:05

to go door to door

30:07

new, collecting signatures on a

30:10

petition or to shut down

30:12

the school until that and

30:14

learn more about was buried

30:16

in the ground. It's fascinating.

30:18

Lois had had pretty low

30:20

self esteem in the nineteen

30:22

seventies. She had barely graduated

30:24

from high school I see

30:26

was a stay at home

30:28

mom or at. The said it

30:31

as a set of the time

30:33

she was a housewife or and

30:35

see felt self conscious. She told

30:37

me about even speaking out at

30:39

teacher conferences or the P T

30:41

A meetings. but you know. As

30:44

a woman who was essentially

30:46

defending the safety of her

30:48

children, see become someone who

30:50

frankly, see, always was but

30:52

didn't know I'm She becomes

30:54

a force of nature frankly.

30:56

And there's a reason why.

30:58

Oh Lois Gibbs, you know,

31:00

gains a measure of fame

31:02

and notoriety out of what

31:04

happens in Love Canal. It

31:06

is. It's that C C

31:08

put yourself in the center

31:10

of it again and again

31:12

and end. You know

31:14

see speaks in front of

31:17

television cameras and reporters with

31:19

the emotion of of a

31:21

mother. That's what

31:23

connects this story to people.

31:26

People. In Niagara Falls of course.

31:28

Always cared about what was happening

31:30

in his neighborhood but it's really

31:33

only because of I'm Activists and

31:35

mother's like lowest dibs that people

31:37

in New York or D C

31:40

or California this ever heard of

31:42

the of this place called Love

31:44

Canal I'm Seats puts it on

31:47

the front page of newspaper see

31:49

puts it at the top of

31:51

the network news. Ah N N

31:54

C does so at a great.

31:56

Person: old price. Over.

31:58

The course of of this two years. Fight

32:00

to escape her own home

32:02

Lowest Gibbs will lose friends.

32:04

People in the neighborhood will

32:06

turn against her in a

32:08

was merely costs are to

32:11

even even her marriage to

32:13

her husband because of all

32:15

the work she's putting in

32:17

our to despite to to

32:19

escape her own house at

32:21

this point in time and

32:23

had this special circumstance we

32:25

have these women mother's housewives

32:27

fighting against and apparatus it

32:29

seems. Just overwhelming. Obama,

32:32

the up against. And and someday

32:34

prevail. Well. I mean,

32:37

they were up against everything. For. Starters,

32:39

they were facing a culture

32:41

that at the time in

32:43

the late Nineteen seventies didn't

32:45

have much respects ah of

32:47

for for women. In specifically,

32:50

didn't have much respect for

32:52

women who were trying to

32:54

be readers and in a

32:56

field of science that was

32:58

a massive challenge that all

33:00

of these women face and

33:02

state officials did try to

33:04

use that against them when

33:06

they begin to work together.

33:09

When. They begin odds you do

33:11

their own studies and when

33:13

they begin to turn to

33:16

the scientists we mentioned before,

33:18

Beverly paid him for help

33:20

in those studies lowest Gibbs

33:22

than the others come forward

33:24

with a different set of

33:26

facts that show they believe

33:28

ah that the chemicals have

33:30

traveled in the grounds of

33:33

far more then state and

33:35

federal officials are willing to

33:37

say at that time. The

33:39

studies that they put together

33:42

or not just credible their

33:44

compelling, but they don't get

33:46

that kind of treatment state

33:48

official dismiss ah, their studies

33:50

as useless housewife data. And

33:53

try to diminish what

33:55

they have found essentially

33:57

by Zehnder blaming them.

34:00

There's sort of a a

34:02

double edged sword here. to

34:04

lindsay your because they were

34:07

women, because they were mother's

34:09

the Do did a certain

34:11

amount of press attention that

34:13

might not have happened, had

34:15

a bed, actual scientists and

34:17

so their greatest weakness or

34:20

becomes at times or their

34:22

greatest strengths and eyes. That's

34:24

a release of compelling historical

34:26

lesson for all of us

34:28

to death. So. Now we

34:31

have these. These activists. These residents

34:33

become activists. We've discussed their the

34:35

long journey that that's ahead of

34:37

them but I'm wondering if you

34:39

could just quickly go through the

34:41

stages of the protests and when

34:43

finally the evidence becomes incontrovertible and

34:45

action must be take. It.

34:47

Follows are you know a

34:49

fairly typical path. I guess

34:51

I would say you know

34:54

they they protest in the

34:56

streets, they protests ad campaign

34:58

rallies for the Governor of

35:00

New York's if they make

35:02

sure they get press attention

35:04

or at every turn. But

35:06

by you know early Nineteen

35:08

eighty they are now in

35:10

a stalemate. And a

35:13

study is being conducted to see

35:15

if any residents of the neighborhood

35:17

have chromosome or abnormalities. It's when

35:20

this study comes out that seems

35:22

quite literally explode. It's a small

35:25

study, very small sample size. It's

35:27

a study that will be debated

35:29

not just for months, but for

35:32

years and is in some ways

35:34

are still under debate today. Ah,

35:37

but when that original study comes

35:39

out, the it is found that

35:41

many. People who live in

35:44

the neighborhood do suffer from

35:46

chromosome or abnormalities and and

35:48

with that low, Gibbs and

35:50

other mothers in the neighborhood

35:52

make a stand. And they

35:54

do so. ah right in

35:56

the neighborhood. ah in essentially

35:59

old against their will to

36:01

he P agents for the

36:03

course of hours. It's it's

36:05

described in the press as

36:07

I as a hostage stand

36:09

off. It's it really never

36:11

was. But it also you

36:14

know was the kind of

36:16

thing that would have gotten

36:18

some one arrested today or

36:20

lowest Gibson and other mothers

36:22

did. Don't let these two

36:24

men leave their a homeowner's

36:27

association office in the neighborhood

36:29

leading to. Have a massive

36:31

police events in also a massive

36:33

media dance and and it's one

36:36

that can no longer be ignored

36:38

all the way to that to

36:40

the doorsteps of the Oval Office

36:43

of the White House in Washington.

36:45

By the end of that nice

36:47

President Jimmy Carter is involved. Thanks.

36:59

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38:31

We would hope for a much quicker

38:33

government response and more corporate accountability that

38:35

did not happen in this case and

38:37

and certainly didn't happen quickly. What were

38:40

some of these issues of may have

38:42

caused this particular instance to become such

38:44

a consensus and difficult problem to solve.

38:47

Well I mean. Sadly,

38:50

I would say we see these kind

38:52

of cases still play. Ah, today. Despite.

38:55

All of the a

38:57

positive changes that we

38:59

have made as a

39:01

culture as a governments

39:03

the in the past

39:05

forty years many of

39:07

the same seems do

39:10

play out in in

39:12

neighborhoods are today when

39:14

there are problems you

39:16

see ah you know

39:18

residents who are frustrated

39:20

about the slow wheels

39:22

of government bureaucracy turning

39:24

to. To address the problems,

39:27

you see the corporations and

39:29

businesses who have been implicated

39:31

in the problem of running

39:33

for legal cover. And you

39:36

do see unfortunately cases where

39:38

environmental crises envelop a neighborhood,

39:40

a town, a place for

39:42

months for years of. But

39:45

that said, this crisis at

39:47

Love Canal. Does. Change

39:49

things. And it does change

39:51

things forever. There's for starters

39:53

a cultural shifts by the

39:55

time you know this is

39:57

over or and and lowest.

40:00

In there is are indeed

40:02

escaping their homes forever of

40:04

people across the country in

40:06

neighborhoods that are both the

40:08

middle class and working class.

40:10

People are looking around and

40:13

wondering what's in their water,

40:15

what's in their soil? Ah,

40:17

what's buried beneath their schools

40:19

are are their children safe?

40:21

There is no and environmental

40:24

awakening that that happens in

40:26

America. And in there is

40:28

a fundamental policy shifts. That

40:30

will forever refrain the how

40:32

we tackle or environmental crises

40:34

like the one we saw

40:36

it in Niagara Falls or

40:38

know in the midst of

40:40

these problems in Western New

40:43

York or Congressmen and Washington's

40:45

begin to debate some kind

40:47

of large fond of money.

40:49

It is going to be

40:51

a pot of money so

40:53

large that they begin to

40:55

call it a super fund.

40:57

By. The end of Nineteen

40:59

Eighty or Congress passes of

41:01

one point six billion. Dollar.

41:04

Piece. Of legislation or that

41:06

will does or the

41:08

environmental protection agency the money.

41:12

And the wherewithal to go

41:14

into places like Niagara Falls

41:16

and and conduct a massive

41:18

clean up when there are

41:20

legal battles or orphan sites

41:22

where there is no one

41:24

left to blame for the

41:26

problem. And so you. This

41:28

super fun back today has

41:30

helped begins to remediate as

41:33

many as two thousand different

41:35

sites across America. Or and

41:37

so this apparatus is in

41:39

place and it has had

41:41

a positive. of Saxon their

41:43

been skill and countless studies

41:45

that show that you know

41:47

the super fun to act

41:49

a helped reduce lead poisoning

41:51

or in children's it is

41:53

helps reduce of birth defects

41:55

instill drones but nevertheless ah

41:57

you know there are neighborhood.

42:00

In cities across this country

42:02

right now that are wrestling

42:04

with similar problems as low

42:06

as Gibbs and The Mother's

42:09

Dead in Nineteen Seventy Eight,

42:11

Nineteen Seventy Nine neither falls

42:13

in the issue typically these

42:15

days isn't about and old

42:18

buried chemical landfill that is

42:20

a particularly unique case, but

42:22

the problems are nevertheless are

42:24

just as difficult to solve

42:26

and it still takes for

42:29

residents who are involved. Or

42:31

ensnared in these scandals are too

42:33

long to get out. Do.

42:36

You still keep in touch with any of people you

42:38

spoke to when researching this book. I

42:40

do indeed. Yes, the Beverley Pagan

42:42

sadly died before my book came

42:44

out, which was devastating all too

42:46

often. Over the years her contributions

42:49

to this story and to this

42:51

fight in Western New York had

42:53

been overshadowed and and so it

42:55

is. It is your devastating to

42:57

me that didn't get to take

42:59

that that sort of victory lap

43:01

at the end of her life,

43:04

but I remain in touch with

43:06

with many of the other principles.

43:08

Hours in a with low. As

43:10

kids, with The Well Attorney or

43:12

with Barney Casper, I remain in

43:14

touch with all of them. You

43:17

know the well, it's any particular

43:19

you know remains this singular voice

43:21

out there in Western New York.

43:23

Like A said, she's one of

43:26

the few who who ultimately didn't

43:28

leave the region entirely. She lives

43:30

just a few miles from her

43:32

old house on Ninety Six Streets,

43:35

and even though The Well A

43:37

is now deep into her eighties

43:39

see still gives. Tours out there

43:41

in the old neighborhood or with

43:43

people who are interested to see

43:45

what it looks like or what

43:47

it was like. Her what it

43:49

was like the live there once

43:51

long ago. Spent. About

43:53

forty five years since this fight began.

43:56

Love Canal, you mentioned why. It was

43:58

a singular case then, and. What's

44:00

changed our legislation is so's

44:02

changed our view of environmental

44:04

crises. But. What do you

44:06

think still resonates about the story today? To.

44:09

Me: What resonates.

44:11

Is the power of

44:14

organizing? The power of

44:16

activism? And the power

44:18

of activists who might not even

44:20

think they have much power. That's.

44:23

To these women were and nineteen

44:25

Seventy Seven Nineteen Seventy Eight. They

44:27

had no training for this moment

44:29

and no expectation that they would

44:31

ever be in a protest, ever

44:33

be on a picket lines. Are

44:35

they put themselves there and and

44:38

will themselves to stay? There are

44:40

because they were protecting their families.

44:42

And in and to me, there's

44:44

just a bigger a lesson in

44:46

that for all of us as

44:48

we face our own love canal.

44:50

You know which I would argue?

44:53

Is the warming of our planet?

44:55

We all have a voice we

44:57

all have a stake in were

45:00

we to organize and fight collectively

45:02

As the residence of this neighborhood

45:04

once did I do believe that

45:07

that we as everyday ordinary people

45:09

have incredible power to change the

45:12

course of history. Lucky to rhyme,

45:14

Thank you so much for joining

45:16

us on Americans Can thanks so

45:19

much for haven't. That

45:21

was my conversation with journalist and author

45:23

Is O'brien. To learn more about this

45:26

story, we recommend his books Paradise for

45:28

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