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See website for details. High5Casino! Dark

1:03

Cast Network. Welcome to

1:05

the dark side of podcasting. After

1:09

26 years of marriage, Bonnie Lee

1:11

Schultz was ready to spread her wings. After

1:14

being a stay-at-home mom to her two children,

1:16

Josh and Gretchen, she was working

1:18

part-time and had just started a second job. She

1:21

was meeting new people and finding new opportunities.

1:24

In 1997, Bonnie decided that a more

1:26

drastic life change was in order. She

1:29

wanted a divorce. Bonnie's

1:31

husband, Rick Schultz, didn't want to end the marriage,

1:34

and on July 3, 1997, Bonnie went out with some

1:36

friends to clear her head. The

1:40

Indianapolis, Indiana mom was never seen

1:42

again. At first, Bonnie was

1:44

thought to have left willingly or had

1:46

befallen an accident, but when no signs

1:48

of the 45-year-old or her car were

1:51

found, police began to suspect

1:53

foul play. Suspicion

1:55

immediately went to her husband, but could

1:57

a different man hold the answers to what happened to her?

2:00

into Bonnie Schultz that night. When

2:02

a person goes missing, there's a special kind of pain

2:04

in the not knowing. I want to tell the stories

2:07

of those who never came home. Today, I want

2:09

to tell you the story of Bonnie Schultz. I'm

2:12

Kona Gallagher. And I'm Ethan Flick. And

2:14

this is, And Then They Were Gone. Welcome

2:31

back, everyone. Welcome

2:56

back. Thank you so much for

2:58

joining us once again. I'm Kona. And I'm

3:00

Ethan. And we're the husband and

3:02

wife team behind this podcast. Each week, I tell

3:04

you the story of an unsalted missing persons case.

3:07

Ethan doesn't know anything about the case going

3:09

into the episode. He's here to

3:11

provide his reactions and questions in real time,

3:14

hopefully asking some of the same ones you

3:16

have at home. Now, as

3:18

we record this, we are

3:20

quickly approaching the 27th anniversary

3:22

of Bonnie Schultz's disappearance. But

3:26

despite a lack of national attention, this

3:28

is far from a cold case. In

3:31

fact, searches have been performed in the past

3:33

couple of years. And

3:35

I even found statements from her family on Facebook

3:37

from just a few weeks ago. And so this

3:39

is really one of those cases where I wouldn't

3:41

be surprised if we wake up to a news

3:43

headline about her being found. But

3:46

even if she isn't, I want

3:48

to get Bonnie's story out there. This was

3:51

actually suggested by one of our listeners who

3:54

sent it into our Facebook. So thank you

3:56

for doing that. And it

3:58

just proves that Bonnie. was loved

4:00

and is still missed by so many people.

4:03

Before we get started though, we have a

4:06

few folks join us over on Patreon recently,

4:08

so we want to give them a shout

4:10

out. Thank you so

4:12

much to Sarah D, Patricia

4:14

S, Liz, Georgina R, and

4:16

Lauren L. We really appreciate

4:18

your support. Thank you guys so, so

4:20

much. And if you'd like to

4:22

join us on any level over at Patreon,

4:24

you can receive ad-free episodes and a copy

4:26

of the e-book that I wrote. Alright,

4:30

not a whole lot of business, but now that

4:32

we've gotten it out of the way, let's get

4:34

into the case of Bonnie Schultz. Bonnie

4:37

Schultz was born on July 25, 1951 in Wisconsin. She was one

4:39

of five children and

4:43

had three sisters and one brother. By

4:46

the time all of this was happening in

4:49

1997, her mother passed away and her father was

4:51

in a nursing home. Bonnie met

4:53

Rick Schultz when they were both in high school

4:55

at Sheboygan South High School, which

4:58

I cannot hear the

5:00

home loan reference. Yeah, exactly. Like we're really

5:03

big in Sheboygan. I'm

5:05

sorry to all Sheboyganites who are probably sick

5:08

of hearing that since 1989. The

5:10

high school sweethearts married in 1970 shortly after they

5:14

graduated high school. Rick joined

5:16

the Navy and the couple moved around

5:18

for several years before finally settling in

5:20

Indianapolis, Indiana, where Rick got a job

5:22

at National City Bank. As

5:24

a couple, Bonnie and Rick played Euchre with

5:27

friends every Friday night, which I

5:29

feel... I feel like that's a like a

5:31

really old person thing to do? No,

5:33

that is what people

5:36

of their age in the Midwest did

5:38

with their weekends because my

5:40

parents are from Michigan and

5:42

Ohio and I remember when I was a

5:44

kid growing up around the same time because

5:47

Bonnie and Rick are around my parents' age

5:50

and I remember them playing

5:52

Euchre like constantly. Really? Yeah, like

5:54

all in the 80s and like into the

5:57

90s. Yeah, Pennsylvania.

6:00

parents had a way different

6:03

idea of fun on a Saturday night. Yeah,

6:05

I don't know, but I never learned how to

6:08

play myself. Like I still to this day

6:10

have no idea how to play that game, but my

6:12

older brother and sister know how to

6:14

play because they grew up in Michigan and

6:16

you know, they're basically boomers. They

6:21

don't listen to this show. So

6:25

after being married for about 10 years or so, Bonnie

6:28

and Rick started their family. Josh

6:30

came first and was followed by Gretchen about

6:33

five years later. Bonnie was

6:35

a stay at home mom and was absolutely devoted

6:37

to her children. She volunteered for the

6:39

PTA and made sure to attend all of

6:41

Josh's baseball games. She would take

6:43

Gretchen on shopping trips and the mother daughter duo

6:45

had plans to go see a movie together on

6:48

July 4th. As the years

6:50

went by and their family grew, they even

6:52

had a dog, Bonnie and Rick seemingly began

6:54

to grow apart. Once

6:57

Gretchen started school, Bonnie got

6:59

a part-time job at RGIS

7:01

inventory specialists in nearby Carmel,

7:03

Indiana. She had also

7:05

recently taken on a second job at

7:07

the Pike Township Trustees Office. Bonnie

7:10

was always well liked and quick to make

7:12

friends, whether it was through volunteering at the

7:14

PTA or through her church. When

7:17

she started her job, Bonnie quickly made friends

7:19

there as well. Everything was

7:21

great for several years. Friends said that the

7:23

Schultz family reminded them of Leave It to

7:25

Beaver. They had basically

7:27

the perfect suburban life. But

7:30

eventually, Bonnie decided she wanted

7:32

a change. We know

7:34

now that leading up to her disappearance,

7:37

Bonnie had been talking to Rick about

7:39

divorcing. According to a post

7:41

made on web sleuths from a woman claiming to

7:43

have worked with Bonnie, the Indiana

7:45

mom had been unhappy in her marriage for quite

7:47

a while. Now I do want to put the

7:50

caveat on this

7:52

post with the fact that

7:54

web sleuths actually does have a verification

7:56

process for people who claim to be

7:59

insiders. quote unquote, or like no people

8:01

involved in these stories. She only

8:03

posted this one post so like, didn't

8:06

go through the verification process. So you

8:08

know, I don't 100% know that

8:10

this is true, but she's not saying anything

8:12

crazy. She's basically just saying

8:14

that she worked with Bonnie, she knew

8:16

her, she liked her, but she had

8:19

left the job about nine months prior

8:21

to Bonnie's disappearance and hadn't

8:23

seen her since then. But

8:26

she says that Bonnie's unhappiness

8:28

in her marriage was already

8:30

even back then a frequent

8:32

topic of conversation. So

8:34

even at the very

8:37

least, nine months prior, like

8:39

Bonnie's coworkers knew that

8:42

there was trouble in the marriage. And

8:44

so far as you know, the

8:47

trouble aspect of the marriage wasn't like

8:49

physical abuse or anything like that. No, no,

8:52

I've never heard anybody say

8:54

anything along those lines. And

8:56

in fact, Rick gave his

8:58

perspective on their marital difficulties

9:00

to eyewitness news reporter Scott

9:02

Swan saying, quote, she made

9:04

comments that her and I don't have anything in

9:06

common and she liked doing one thing and I

9:08

like doing another. Most couples in

9:11

my opinion, are that way. What they

9:13

have in common is the family, end

9:16

quote. And like you

9:18

get it, right? Like that, that

9:20

one short brief statement really

9:22

made everything pretty clear to me in

9:24

terms of what she was probably going

9:26

through at that time in her life.

9:29

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like

9:31

the marriage has kind of fizzled

9:33

out at that point. Yeah. I

9:35

mean, listen, these people were high school sweethearts,

9:37

right? They'd been married for 26 years.

9:40

They were together, you know, I'm guessing for a

9:42

couple of years before that. Yeah.

9:44

And people change, especially in that

9:46

long of an age gap,

9:49

like, yeah, interests change the

9:52

way you interact with people

9:54

change. Like your whole

9:56

personality grows and changes over

9:58

that period of time. Yeah. they literally

10:00

went from being children together to

10:02

being adults. And you know, a

10:05

lot happens in that 30 year

10:07

period basically. And

10:09

so, you know, it's one thing, I'm not saying that

10:11

like, you could never grow

10:14

and change together. Right. But

10:16

it takes work. Right. And you both

10:18

have to be on the same page and

10:20

it really doesn't seem as though they were

10:22

because it sounds like Rick was like, listen,

10:24

you know, we had our family, we were

10:26

doing our thing. Everything was cool. This is

10:29

what it's supposed to be. And Bonnie was

10:32

like, well, I don't know. Maybe there's

10:34

more. So I

10:36

can see how Bonnie might've been

10:38

feeling frustrated and unseen in her

10:40

relationship. And this frustration eventually led

10:43

to betrayal as Bonnie began

10:46

having an affair with one of her coworkers.

10:49

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move forward at sanovus.com. On

12:32

Thursday, July 3rd, 1997, Bonnie and Rick

12:35

had a conversation. She

12:37

told Rick she wanted a divorce. Rick

12:40

wanted to go to marriage counseling instead. But what

12:43

I don't know is whether or not Rick knew

12:45

about Bonnie's affair. This would, of

12:47

course, be a key piece of evidence, but

12:49

I haven't found the answer in any of

12:51

the source material. And I will say that

12:54

there is really very little

12:57

public information on this case.

12:59

Not only did this not make

13:02

national news, it barely made local

13:04

news. I found, you know,

13:06

three to

13:08

four articles from, you know, the

13:10

first year of her disappearance and

13:13

then a couple of articles 10 to 12 years

13:15

later. And that's honestly about

13:17

it. So my question to

13:20

that would be if you're unsure

13:23

whether Rick knew about the affair

13:25

at that point, how did

13:27

that come out? Like, oh,

13:30

well, so interestingly, I mean, it

13:32

came out in the course of the investigation and

13:34

I'll get into the details of that. But

13:37

it definitely 100% did

13:40

not come from Rick because

13:42

initially when Rick reports his wife

13:44

missing, you know, and the police are asking their

13:47

questions, he's like, what? No, she's my wife. We're

13:49

in love. Our marriage is fine. Don't worry about

13:51

it. So Bonnie was

13:53

upset, obviously, when she left the

13:55

house. So that night she said

13:57

that she was going to a party at a co-worker's

13:59

house. Some sources have described

14:01

it as a birthday party, others just called

14:03

it, you know, a get together. So

14:06

she left and Josh, who was 15 at the

14:08

time, went to stay the night at a friend's

14:10

house and 10 year old

14:13

Gretchen stayed home with Rick. At the

14:15

party, Bonnie met up with her good friend

14:17

and coworker, Anita Cardone. According

14:19

to a post on discovery.com, Bonnie was upset

14:21

and crying when she arrived. She

14:24

said that she and Rick had had a huge fight

14:26

and that he wouldn't give her a divorce. She

14:29

also allegedly said that she didn't know

14:31

what he would do. We

14:34

don't have any more information on what she

14:36

meant by that, but that is the only thing

14:38

I've ever read that even remotely

14:40

hints at

14:43

like any fear she might have been feeling

14:45

or any possible violence or anything like that.

14:48

Yeah, that statement doesn't really, you know,

14:50

without further elaboration, it doesn't

14:53

really indicate that she was

14:55

worried about him being violent. No, not at

14:57

all. It could mean anything. Yeah, I don't

14:59

know what he would do like with his life. Yeah.

15:02

What about the children? Yeah. Would

15:04

he try to take the kids? Like, would he try

15:06

to screw me out of money? Like, I mean, yeah,

15:09

that could mean a hundred billion different things, especially

15:11

in the context of he, the,

15:14

he wouldn't give me a divorce. Right.

15:17

You don't, you don't need to get permission

15:19

from your spouse to get a divorce. Right.

15:22

You can file it and it would be contested, of course.

15:24

But like to

15:27

me, that statement seems as though

15:29

she's like, we

15:31

don't agree about getting divorced,

15:34

so he's probably going to fight me on

15:36

the divorce and I don't know what he

15:38

will do in that sense. Right.

15:41

I think that makes perfect sense, you know, and

15:43

especially because he did say that himself. He's like,

15:45

I didn't want to get divorced. I wanted to

15:47

go to marriage counseling. Yeah. You

15:50

know? Yeah. Like

15:52

there was, it wasn't going to be a, hey, I want a

15:54

divorce. Okay. Rick,

15:56

when he talks about this later, denies that

15:58

they had a fight. He calls it

16:00

a discussion. Bonnie called

16:02

it a huge fight. So, you

16:05

know, different perspectives. So

16:07

Bonnie and Anita stayed at the party for a little

16:09

while, but then they decided to leave and get a

16:11

couple of drinks over at a nearby bar called the

16:13

Time Out Lounge. They went with

16:16

at least one other coworker, the

16:18

man with whom Bonnie was having the affair.

16:21

So there may have been more people

16:23

who went out with them, but

16:26

the only two I know for sure

16:28

are Anita and this guy. So when

16:30

they arrived at the bar, Bonnie was

16:32

apparently still pretty upset about her conversation

16:34

slash argument with her husband. But

16:37

as she talked with her friend and

16:39

boyfriend, she seemed to calm down and

16:41

enjoy herself. Bonnie apparently wasn't

16:43

a big drinker. And even though they

16:45

stayed out late that night, employees said

16:48

that she didn't seem intoxicated when she

16:50

left. They also said that she didn't

16:52

seem distressed when she left. Early

16:55

reports stated that the three left around 3 a.m.,

16:58

but some later reports have their departures

17:00

closer to four. Well, the

17:02

bar stays open pretty late then. It

17:05

does. And I was like, that seems

17:07

insanely late for suburbia. Like New York City bars

17:09

stay open till four. I didn't know Indianapolis was

17:11

like that because this isn't like the heart of

17:13

the city. This is kind of a suburban area

17:15

that they're in. So, you know,

17:18

I called our local

17:20

Indianapolis native slash person

17:22

who went out to a lot of bars in

17:24

the nineties there. And he said,

17:27

yeah, he said that last call is usually at

17:29

3 a.m. and that there's some Indiana term for

17:31

it, but it was like whatever the term is

17:33

for bars that only serve beer and wine. He

17:36

said that they could stay open till at least four and

17:38

they might not have to close at all.

17:41

That sounds accurate

17:44

from what I know about Indianapolis and

17:47

the people from India. Sorry to our

17:49

fans who are from Indianapolis. Yeah,

17:52

so I thought that was interesting. So yeah, so

17:54

them staying out to like four a.m. wasn't

17:57

something that Bonnie necessarily did often.

17:59

But it wasn't weird, you know?

18:02

The three of them all got into separate

18:04

cars because they all arrived at the party

18:06

separately, drove to the bar separately, and then

18:08

left separately. Anita says

18:11

that she saw Bonnie get

18:13

into her car alone and

18:15

drive west on 62nd Street toward

18:18

her home and Broad Ripple. Now

18:21

the bar was less than 10 miles from her

18:23

house, but Bonnie never made it home

18:25

that night. When Rick woke

18:27

up the next morning, he of course noticed that

18:30

his wife wasn't there. However, he

18:32

just assumed that she had had too much to

18:34

drink and decided to stay with a friend. Yeah,

18:37

and coming on the heels of

18:39

the quote unquote discussion slash huge

18:41

fight, like, yeah, I

18:44

could definitely see like, all right,

18:46

well, she's clearly blowing

18:48

off steam or whatever. Right?

18:50

Yeah. And staying out,

18:52

you know, with a friend doesn't want to come home.

18:54

Like it makes sense. So like he didn't panic when

18:56

he woke up that morning, you know? Right. And

18:59

this is also 1997. So we're

19:01

talking cell

19:03

phones did exist. They were not

19:05

smartphones and

19:08

not a whole lot of people had

19:10

cell phones. Well, that

19:12

actually does bring me into an

19:14

unanswered question because Bonnie

19:16

had a cell phone. And

19:20

the reason she had a cell phone is

19:22

because she was very safety conscious. And

19:24

it sounds like she might have worked kind of

19:26

odd hours at her job, like maybe

19:29

some, you know, evening shifts or night shifts

19:31

or things like that. And

19:33

it was in Carmel, which is nearby, but, you

19:35

know, still a different town, right? So she

19:37

apparently wanted to have a cell phone, like in case

19:39

the car broke down or something like that. So

19:42

she could call for help. Now I

19:44

do know that police checked her phone,

19:46

of course, and it hadn't been used

19:48

since the time she left the bar.

19:52

But what I don't know, my

19:54

huge unanswered question is if Rick

19:56

had tried to call her. And

20:00

if he did, how many times? And

20:03

did he leave messages? You know, texting

20:05

wasn't a big thing back then. Like you

20:08

could, but you had to pay extra for texts. So like

20:10

nobody really did it. Yeah. And the screens

20:12

were terrible. And you had to like

20:14

press the button five times to get an S

20:17

or whatever. Right. But like, yeah,

20:19

so I don't have any information about

20:21

incoming calls. Who was trying

20:24

to get a hold of her that day when

20:26

she wasn't showing up to home

20:28

or work or anywhere else she was supposed to be.

20:31

So yeah, we get though why he wouldn't

20:33

have woken up and been, you know, immediately

20:35

concerned, but as the day went on and

20:37

he didn't hear from her, she didn't come

20:40

home. He did begin, begin to worry. So

20:42

around 5 PM, he called

20:45

the police and reported Bonnie missing.

20:47

As you can imagine, the Marion County Sheriff's

20:50

department didn't exactly launch a full skill search.

20:53

She's an adult. She went out on

20:55

her own. You know, she went out to like,

20:57

he didn't tell them about the fight or anything,

20:59

but she still like went to

21:01

a party, you know? Right. So yeah,

21:05

it was also the 4th of July when

21:08

he's reporting her missing. So it's a holiday. Right.

21:10

Reduce staffing with the police or

21:12

increase staffing because it's a holiday

21:15

and they're responding to a probably

21:17

a whole lot of other drunken disorderly

21:20

calls. Yeah. I wonder if they do

21:22

like extra staffing that earlier, if

21:25

they wait till like do it at night

21:27

on the 4th of July or, you know, whatever. Not that

21:29

that matters. No, cause there also could have

21:31

been a 4th of July parade. Yeah. Like, Oh,

21:33

that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you

21:36

know, and this is a total off topic

21:38

side note, but so many

21:40

of the cases that we cover take place

21:42

over a holiday weekend. And

21:48

I wonder, like, it makes me

21:50

wonder if like the reduced staffing

21:52

or things like that, contribute

21:55

to the early

21:57

days of these cases, not necessarily giving the

21:59

attention. attention that they need and

22:02

if that contributes to them ultimately not getting

22:04

solved. So just off the top of

22:06

my head, and I didn't even look back at our episodes

22:08

because we've done over 150 of these,

22:11

but Johnny Gosh went missing

22:13

I believe it was Memorial Day, could

22:15

have been Labor Day, Kristen Smart went

22:18

missing Memorial Day, Cindy Song went missing

22:20

Halloween weekend, and I know

22:22

we have another 4th of July, but it's escaping me

22:24

right now. But it's

22:26

a lot. Is it the

22:29

police response or do people just typically

22:32

dip out of their lives over a holiday

22:34

weekend because they figure nobody's going to look

22:36

for them? I don't know. I don't know.

22:38

Well, Robert Houghlin didn't leave over a holiday

22:41

weekend. That's true. And he's the only

22:43

one we know for sure who dipped out on his life. Very

22:45

true. Like we said, part of the

22:47

reason why the Sheriff's Department wasn't overly concerned is

22:50

because she decided not

22:52

to come home. That was their thought. So

22:54

they didn't even know about the marital problems

22:56

or anything like that at this point. So

23:00

that's the 4th that he reports her. Now by the

23:03

5th, Rick had found out somehow,

23:05

I don't know if he like was calling

23:07

around to friends or friends were calling his

23:10

house or what was happening, but

23:12

he had found out that Bonnie was last seen

23:14

at the time out. So

23:16

he took Josh and tried to retrace her

23:18

steps. Their

23:20

10 year old son. The

23:23

daughter's 10. Yeah. In

23:26

an interview with the Noblesville Gledger a few

23:28

weeks after Bonnie's disappearance, Rick said, quote, we

23:30

drove through every little parking lot from Allisonville

23:33

to Broad Ripple. She actually vanished

23:35

without a clue. End quote. So

23:38

Allisonville, like Allisonville Road is

23:40

where the bar, it's like the intersection of

23:42

Allisonville in 62nd, I think is where the

23:44

bar was. Broad Ripple is

23:47

right past their house. But

23:50

you know, in the direction that she would have been traveling. Interestingly,

23:54

her boyfriend apparently lived in

23:56

Broad Ripple. So

23:58

I don't know if. he

24:00

was going all the way to Broad Ripple because

24:02

he already knew that, or if

24:04

he was just kind of covering all of his bases,

24:06

you know, like going to the house and a little

24:09

bit past the house. Rick

24:11

called Bonnie's siblings in the hope that they

24:13

had maybe heard from her, or like maybe,

24:15

you know, she had gotten pissed off at

24:17

him, so she drove back to Wisconsin and

24:19

was staying with them. But

24:22

unfortunately, when he got in touch with

24:24

them, they were just as shocked and

24:26

surprised as he said he was when

24:28

he found out. So even though

24:30

this was 1997 and people weren't

24:32

nearly as trackable as they are now,

24:34

as we mentioned, Bonnie was more trackable

24:36

than most at the time. Not

24:39

only did she leave the house with her cell phone that

24:41

night, but she also had credit cards with her. And

24:44

likewise, those were not used after

24:46

the time she was last seen.

24:49

Police interviewed friends and started searching along her

24:51

route in wooded areas and in bodies of

24:53

water. By the one

24:55

month mark, investigators seemed flummoxed. Lieutenant

24:58

Dennis May told the Indianapolis Star,

25:00

quote, there have been no tips,

25:02

sightings, or activity under bank account

25:04

or credit cards. There's no

25:06

physical evidence of foul play, but we're not

25:08

going to completely rule that out, end

25:11

quote. So this is one month? One

25:13

month. Into it. Yeah.

25:16

So from what it sounds like, the

25:18

investigation, it kind of

25:20

started maybe about three days after

25:22

she went missing, kind of

25:24

got into gear at the one week

25:26

mark. And

25:28

then proceeded from there. It was initially

25:31

handled by the Marion County Sheriff's Department,

25:33

but at some point, and I don't

25:35

know exactly when, it

25:38

was taken over by the

25:40

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. Okay.

25:43

So at this point, one month into it, do we know

25:45

have they cleared Rick? I

25:48

would assume that the 10-year-old

25:50

daughter alibied him. I

25:52

would assume that Gretchen did alibi

25:54

him, although none of her statements

25:57

about that were ever made public. Sure.

26:00

About, you know, July 7th, like I said,

26:02

is when it really started to kick off.

26:04

And that's when police went to the men

26:06

in her life. So they went

26:08

to her husband and her boyfriend. See,

26:11

but how did they find out about the boyfriend? So

26:13

the boyfriend was with her that night. Right,

26:16

but so was another coworker. Right. And

26:19

by that time, Rick had found out that she was

26:21

at that bar. And he could have only found that

26:23

out from somebody who was there. So I don't know

26:25

if it was Anita, you know, who he talked to,

26:27

but he talked to somebody. So in

26:29

any case, you know, whether they came forward

26:32

or Rick was like, hey, my wife was

26:34

with Anita that night, talked to her. Police

26:37

ended up interviewing Anita and

26:40

the boyfriend because

26:42

they did find out that they were with her

26:44

that night. And the boyfriend was like, yeah, we

26:46

are sleeping together. Like we were having

26:48

an affair. So that's how

26:50

police found out about everything. They apparently,

26:52

you know, interviewed some other coworkers and

26:55

things as well and other friends. But

26:58

yeah, they, Anita and the boyfriend

27:01

told them everything about what had happened

27:03

that night and freely admitted to the

27:05

relationship that was going on with Bonnie.

27:08

So assuming Rick didn't

27:10

know up to that point, the

27:13

police then probably informed him. Yeah,

27:16

if he didn't already know, he probably

27:18

knew by about a weekend. So

27:21

when Rick initially reports his wife missing, you

27:23

know, it's just a very basic, like, my

27:25

wife didn't come home kind of situation. Then

27:28

a couple of days later, she's still not home.

27:31

The police actually start their investigation. So they come

27:33

back to Rick and they say, OK, tell us

27:35

more about what's going on. And

27:38

it was around this time that Rick is

27:40

like, OK, well, we were having marital problems.

27:42

You know, I didn't tell you about it

27:45

before because. Well, I'm sure they

27:47

didn't dig that deeply into it on the initial

27:49

phone call anyway. Well, yeah, I'm sure, you know,

27:51

he didn't even talk to a detective that day.

27:53

Probably, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

27:56

So Rick is admitting to the marital problems.

27:58

The police know about the affair. if

28:01

Rick didn't know already, he knows now. And

28:04

the police decide to, of course,

28:06

interview the boyfriend more. They

28:08

talked to him and we don't know much about him,

28:10

like his name hasn't even been released. All

28:13

we know is that he worked with Bonnie

28:15

and I'm pretty sure he worked, he lived

28:17

in Broad Ripple. But in an

28:19

article written in 2010, Indianapolis Metropolitan

28:22

Police Department, missing persons detective

28:24

Dan Kistner said that

28:27

the boyfriend cooperated with the investigation and

28:29

agreed to take a polygraph test, which

28:31

he passed. Rick however, was

28:33

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Data is no Smoothie Kings New

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lemonade lineup of for a limited

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time. Who. Stars Day. As

30:18

I mentioned, there's been very little media

30:20

coverage of Bonnie's case, but in both

30:23

the discovery.com article I was just talking

30:25

about with Detective Kistner and a 2007

30:27

article in

30:29

which IMPD Detective Katherine Byron was

30:32

interviewed, it's clear that the

30:34

police had a suspect in mind and

30:36

it's not the boyfriend. Is

30:38

it Rick? Yeah. Detective

30:41

Byron said in 2007 that

30:43

no one had been ruled out as a

30:45

suspect, but also talked about who

30:47

could have done this, saying, quote, the

30:50

person responsible for this was pretty involved.

30:53

They had a plan, not only to hide Bonnie, but

30:55

to hide her entire car. End quote.

30:58

Well, I mean, if this, if we're talking

31:00

murder here, like he's the only one

31:02

with with motive. Well, he's

31:05

the only one with obvious motive. Sure. The

31:07

boyfriend could have been, you're not

31:09

leaving your husband and now I'm mad.

31:13

Like, you know, it could have been. Right.

31:16

But we know that she pressed

31:18

for a divorce. They got into a fight.

31:20

She went out. She was having an affair. He

31:23

may have found out about it. He

31:25

may have found out about the affair in

31:27

the midst of the fight. Or

31:29

even before that. Or even before. Right.

31:32

Yeah. So yes, it's way more obvious that

31:34

he would have the motive if we're talking

31:36

murder. Right. Which we

31:38

are not necessarily talking. Yeah. In

31:41

2010, Detective Kistner also gave more details about

31:43

the early days in the investigation, including

31:46

one disturbing discrepancy in Rick's

31:49

story. Now of course, the

31:51

first major discrepancy was him telling police that,

31:53

you know, they had a happy marriage and

31:55

whatever. But we've already talked about this. That

31:57

could be written off as embarrassment or. or

32:00

wanting police to take her disappearance seriously and

32:02

not just think that they got into a

32:04

fight so she didn't want to come home,

32:06

you know? Right. But a

32:08

week after Bonnie's disappearance, detectives revisited

32:11

the Schultz home. This

32:13

time, they spoke with the children. When

32:15

Rick gave a follow-up statement on July 7th, he

32:18

went further into detail about what Bonnie had been

32:20

wearing and what items she had with her when

32:22

she was last seen, like when she left the

32:24

house. And this interview was

32:26

done over the phone. So when police went

32:29

to the house to follow up, Rick was

32:31

at work, but the kids were there. And

32:34

it's pretty shady, honestly, that they talked

32:36

to the kids. Yeah, that's actually... Like

32:38

that at their house when no parents

32:40

there. That's not allowed. Yeah,

32:43

so anyway. Detective Kistner describes

32:45

what happens next. Quote,

32:47

after a short discussion, Gretchen mentioned items that her

32:50

mother had with her when she left the residence

32:52

on July 3rd. One

32:54

of those items was a gift that Gretchen and Joshua

32:56

had given to her, a gift she

32:58

was always known to have in her

33:01

possession. End quote. Now

33:03

police don't want to say exactly what the gift is, but

33:06

they did say that that day when

33:08

they were at the house, they

33:10

found the gift at the house. Kistner

33:13

said, quote, the information received from the

33:15

children conflicted with Richard's own statement to

33:17

police in which he had listed the

33:19

gift as property his wife had in

33:21

her possession at the time she went

33:24

missing. This led us

33:26

to further question Richard's account that

33:28

Bonnie had never returned home. End

33:31

quote. Now when confronted with this

33:33

information, Rick said that he must've just been

33:35

confused and had just assumed that he had

33:37

had it with her. Like maybe he didn't

33:39

see that she had had it with her.

33:41

He just assumed she did, cause she usually

33:43

did. But hey, if it's at the house,

33:45

then I guess I was wrong and she never had it in the

33:47

first place. Sure. I

33:50

can see that. Right, absolutely. But

33:53

detectives on the other hand, believe that it shows

33:55

that Bonnie did in fact arrive home after the

33:57

bar and that something happened.

34:00

to her there. Rick,

34:02

of course, vehemently denies this. And, you

34:04

know, Gretchen, of course, didn't have anything

34:06

to say that would support

34:09

that theory. She didn't say, oh yeah, no, mom

34:11

came home at four in the morning or I

34:13

heard yelling or, you know, anything like that. So

34:16

she was home. She was home, yeah. Josh

34:18

wasn't. Assuming that she was asleep at, let's

34:21

say, 4.35 a.m. But

34:24

she's in the house. So if something

34:27

happened in the house, I would

34:29

imagine it'd be pretty difficult for her to sleep through it.

34:32

Yeah. And she was 10 years old. You

34:34

know, we're not talking like she was in

34:36

a toddler. She wasn't a baby. Like she

34:38

was a functional, like aware

34:40

human being, you know? Right.

34:43

Now it's kind of a he said, she said type

34:46

of situation, right? Like police

34:48

think that this is a break in

34:50

the case, but they can't really prove

34:52

anything with it because, you know, Gretchen's

34:54

basically backing her father's story up, which

34:56

is that he was there and the

34:58

mom didn't come home. It's

35:00

also hard for us to say without

35:03

knowing what the quote unquote item or the

35:05

gift is, like if it's a

35:07

bracelet or something that that easily could

35:10

be taken off or forgotten to be

35:12

put on, then, yeah,

35:15

I can see where Rick would be like, oh, well,

35:18

she always had it on her. I

35:20

just assumed she had that honor.

35:22

Yeah. Or is it something

35:24

else that's potentially either

35:26

harder to take off or something that

35:29

she I don't it's hard to say,

35:31

you know what I mean? Was it something

35:33

as simple as she just forgot to put

35:35

a necklace on? It's just one

35:37

of those things that it seems like

35:39

a big deal. But it seems

35:41

pretty loose. Yeah. Yeah. It might not mean

35:43

anything. Right. But it

35:45

is interesting reading articles from

35:48

around Bonnie's disappearance versus reading

35:50

these articles that are like

35:52

10 plus years later because

35:54

they paint two very different pictures. In

35:57

the first articles, Rick is treated like

35:59

the grieving husband. of a missing woman.

36:01

He seems lost and confused, unsure if

36:03

something terrible happened to his wife or

36:06

if she simply decided to leave her

36:08

family. But what strikes

36:10

me about the interviews that

36:12

Rick has given is that

36:15

he is the only one really

36:17

who's brought up the possibility of

36:19

Bonnie leaving on her own. Everyone

36:21

else who knows Bonnie says that

36:23

she would never leave her children

36:25

in a million years, like no

36:27

matter what was going on in

36:29

her life, in her marriage, and

36:31

anything. But Rick

36:34

brings up the possibility on more than one

36:36

occasion over the years. In

36:38

an article from July 30th, 1997, Rick doesn't

36:40

give direct opinions on what he thinks happened

36:43

to his wife that night. But

36:45

when asked what he would do, she walked

36:47

in the door. He said, quote, I

36:49

would run up and give her a big hug and welcome her home.

36:51

I would ask her if there's anything we

36:54

could do and let her know we missed her, but

36:56

why she left would be of

36:59

secondary importance, end quote. I

37:01

don't know. Look, to

37:04

me, that doesn't seem outrageous

37:06

or indicative of guilt in any sense

37:09

of the word. Like they had a

37:11

fight where she asked about where she

37:14

told him she wanted a

37:16

divorce. She then goes out

37:18

and never comes home again. You

37:21

got to think that that his mind is

37:23

swirling around what actually happened.

37:26

And I could see that being

37:28

a logical conclusion. If you take it like

37:30

a face value and she literally is walking

37:33

through the door, then one, you know that

37:35

she's not dead. Right. Like to you know,

37:37

you know that she didn't accidentally die

37:40

in some other way. Right. So

37:42

that takes out a lot of the

37:44

possibilities. So the most logical possibility would

37:46

be like, Oh, you did leave and

37:48

now you're deciding to come home. So

37:51

now we need to talk about that. Right.

37:53

So like, if you just take it purely

37:55

at face value, yes, you're right. That is

37:57

a very normal animal. answer

38:00

to the question that was asked, which is, what would

38:02

you do if your wife walked in the door right

38:04

now? Yeah. But that's not the only time that he

38:06

kind of talks like that. But

38:08

just to put a point on, you

38:10

know, who Bonnie was as a mother,

38:13

Janice Sorensen, Bonnie's friend of nearly a

38:15

decade, said in an August 3rd

38:17

article that there was no way Bonnie would

38:19

have decided to leave her kids. She

38:22

told reporters, quote, she was very much a

38:24

devoted wife and mother. It's just so odd.

38:27

Police keep focusing on the fact that she may

38:29

have left on her own, but it doesn't fit

38:31

at all with Bonnie, end quote. But

38:34

she said police keep focusing. Yeah, they did.

38:36

And they absolutely did. On her leaving on

38:38

her own. So it may not have been

38:40

Rick even coming up with that

38:43

initial thought. It may have been suggested by the

38:45

detectives that were working the case. Yeah,

38:47

or it may have been both. I mean,

38:49

either way. But yes, police 100% did

38:51

initially treat this as like a woman who just

38:54

peaced out for a while. I

38:56

do want to say I am not defending Rick.

38:58

I'm not sitting here saying that there's no

39:00

way that he could have done something. Yeah.

39:04

So no, I would

39:06

agree. But I don't. And while you

39:08

can take some of these things that have happened and

39:11

put them in a nefarious light, they're

39:14

not necessarily nefarious at all. Right.

39:17

The articles published years later, though,

39:19

are far more pointed. In

39:22

2007, Rick, who moved to Kalamazoo, Michigan with the

39:24

kids in 2000, told eyewitness and news

39:27

is Scott Swan, quote, I

39:29

never thought she was the type that would get up

39:31

and leave and run away. She

39:33

wouldn't leave her kids behind. I don't

39:35

think she had any thoughts of suicide or anything

39:38

like that. I don't think the situation was anywhere

39:40

near that desperate, end quote. He

39:43

says later in the article, quote, if she

39:45

left us and is happy, as difficult as that

39:47

is for us, that's better for her. If

39:50

something else has happened, obviously it's a bad

39:52

thing for everybody. End quote. I

39:55

mean, I still won't hear it. Like this

39:57

is a guy that's like trying to figure

39:59

out. figure out what happened to his wife,

40:01

and this is three years later, he's still

40:04

grieving over his- No, this was 10 years later. Oh,

40:06

10 years later? Yeah. Okay. Well,

40:09

I mean, that makes it even more, he

40:12

still doesn't know. Yeah. Like,

40:14

so, I mean- And, you know, again,

40:16

we don't know the context of him

40:19

giving this answer, because, especially because he's

40:21

bringing up, I don't think she

40:23

had thoughts of suicide, that was another theory that

40:26

the police had, that maybe she

40:28

intentionally drove into a body of

40:30

water. So the idea of her

40:33

being in a body of water is one that has

40:35

been around since the beginning, and the main reason for

40:37

that is because the car has never been found. And

40:40

a lot of times, if you have a missing person,

40:43

and a missing car, there's a body

40:45

of water involved. So begs

40:47

the question, what bodies of

40:50

water are around their house? So, White's

40:52

River is near their house, and

40:55

there are several other retention

40:57

ponds that are in

40:59

the area that she was driving that

41:01

night. Is

41:04

it safe to assume that at least

41:06

the retention ponds were searched? Yeah, we're

41:08

gonna talk more about that. I

41:12

know, I'm probably reading too much into it. I just

41:14

didn't like the way that this last

41:16

part sounded. If

41:18

she left us in as happy, as difficult as that

41:20

is for us, it's better for her. Something else has

41:22

happened. Obviously, that's a bad thing for everybody. Obviously,

41:25

that's a bad thing for everybody, just

41:28

rubs me the wrong way, but that

41:30

could just be a me thing. Detective

41:32

Byron, on the other hand, stated

41:34

very plainly that investigators believe that

41:36

Bonnie did meet with foul play.

41:39

So this is

41:41

the biggest way in which the case has

41:43

changed in 10 years, and it makes sense

41:45

because if she hadn't met with foul play,

41:48

she wouldn't have 100% been found by then, but

41:52

it's probably a better chance that she would have been found

41:55

by then. Or at the very least, the car

41:57

would have been found. Exactly, that's something,

41:59

some. some trace, some something

42:01

would have been found. But in 1997,

42:03

police said, look, we don't have any evidence of

42:05

foul play. We can't rule it out, but

42:07

like nothing here is pointing to that. 10

42:10

years later, they're like, yeah, it was definitely foul play.

42:13

Detective Byron said, quote, I don't believe

42:15

that Bonnie left her children and left her friends

42:17

and left her job and took her car and

42:19

hid it somewhere. I don't believe

42:21

Bonnie has been living somewhere the last

42:23

10 years, end quote. And

42:25

conventional wisdom would say that she's correct. On

42:29

that, I don't know what happened beyond

42:31

that, but no, I think there's basically

42:33

a zero chance that she

42:35

took off and hid her car and never

42:39

said anything to anybody in her life ever again. So

42:41

by 2010, this is 27, this article

42:43

that I was just talking about. So three years later, 2010,

42:47

still no trace of either Bonnie or her car

42:49

had been found. Detective

42:51

Kistner's belief was that because the

42:53

initial investigation focused too heavily on

42:55

the theory that Bonnie left on

42:57

her own accord, too

42:59

much time had passed and so they

43:01

were unable to bring charges. From

43:04

what it sounds like kind of reading between the lines

43:07

and you don't have to read

43:09

very far between the lines to see

43:11

what he's saying here, but he

43:13

basically thinks that if the initial investigators

43:15

would have pushed Rick hard at the

43:17

beginning and would have done like a

43:20

thorough investigation with the idea that this

43:22

was foul play, that they probably

43:24

would have gotten the evidence they needed to bring

43:26

charges against him. Of course, he

43:28

doesn't come out and say that, but he does come pretty

43:30

close. Now, back in 2008, he

43:33

traveled to Michigan in hopes of interviewing the

43:35

family again. And so this is 2010 where

43:38

he's talking about this. He says,

43:40

quote, I wanted to speak with Richard and

43:42

Bonnie's children who are now grown. Richard

43:45

maintained that he knew nothing. He has

43:48

made no attempts to locate his wife

43:50

since her reported disappearance. Joshua

43:52

still lives with Richard, provides complete

43:55

monetary support for his children. They

43:58

have very limited association with any. other

44:00

family members. Both children refused

44:02

to talk to me regarding their mother's

44:04

disappearance. Gretchen stated that

44:06

it would not change anything." End quote.

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45:25

I think it's interesting what he's implying here

45:28

because he's basically implying that

45:30

Josh who's 25 now still

45:33

living with his dad and

45:35

being supported by his dad along with Gretchen

45:37

who was 20 means that

45:40

basically they're not going against

45:42

him because of the money. Like

45:45

that's is it doesn't that sound like what he's saying kind of?

45:48

Yeah, it sounds like what he's saying, but

45:50

I disagree with him. Like

45:52

what is really like

45:55

their kids in their 20s. Yeah,

45:58

and then he's saying that they have Women

46:00

at Association. with any other family members, meaning

46:02

I'm assuming Bonnie's family,

46:04

because she had five siblings. So

46:06

he's like, so basically what he's

46:08

saying, he's isolating the children, he's

46:11

supporting them, he's like keeping this hold

46:14

on them to keep them

46:16

on his side. Sure, but A,

46:18

we have no evidence of that, and B, what

46:21

evidence we do have of anything

46:24

is that in so many

46:26

words in different articles,

46:28

they have basically said that Richard

46:32

is the prime suspect, even though they can't

46:34

bring charges against him. So

46:36

who knows what could have happened between

46:40

Bonnie's family and them, meaning

46:43

Richard and the kids, in

46:45

the ensuing, this was what, 12, 13

46:48

years later? Like

46:51

you have no idea, maybe they don't have

46:54

contact with them with Bonnie's family because Bonnie's

46:56

family turned against them or against

46:59

Rick, who was their dad.

47:01

And if Crutchen was actually in

47:03

the house that night, yes,

47:06

she's 10 years old, but like we said

47:08

before, she's a functional human being, she

47:11

probably wholeheartedly believes that nothing happened because she

47:13

was there that night. So

47:17

we have no idea. So to

47:20

make that kind of statement saying that he's

47:23

somehow isolating the kids and

47:27

they're completely relying on him

47:29

for money, like, I don't know,

47:31

that just, that

47:33

seems kind of far

47:35

fetched to me without providing some sort of

47:37

evidence to back this up. I mean, I'll

47:40

say yes and no, I get what you're

47:42

saying, and I agree. On

47:44

the other hand, I

47:46

have watched hundreds of episodes of Dateline

47:49

and have definitely seen that exact situation

47:51

play out more than once. So

47:54

it does happen. I'm not saying it

47:56

doesn't happen, but also

47:59

not saying that this happened. but we

48:01

have also experienced a case, Hoagie

48:04

Hoagland, where he did, in fact, just

48:06

walk out on his family and disappear and start a

48:08

whole new life. The difference

48:10

between that and this case is he walked out

48:13

on foot. So we're missing

48:15

a car here. We're missing a car here. And

48:17

he had done it before. Sure. You

48:20

know, like he had a history of this

48:22

behavior. She did not. Kistner

48:24

went on to say, quote, it is

48:26

a very frustrating cold case. I've taken

48:28

it very personally and have endured many

48:30

sleepless nights thinking about it. It

48:33

is my belief that Joshua and

48:35

Gretchen would want to do anything

48:37

and everything possible to locate their

48:39

missing mother. I

48:41

believe their failure to cooperate is

48:43

because they know their mother is

48:45

deceased and quite possibly who is

48:47

responsible. Regardless, the

48:49

perpetrator of this crime can rest assured

48:51

that we will not give up, end

48:54

quote. But based

48:56

on what, that's my problem. He's making

48:58

these statements based on a feeling that

49:00

he has because he's basically become obsessed

49:02

with this case. He even admits to

49:04

it. Yeah. Like,

49:07

I'm sure he's a great detective. And

49:09

there's a whole bunch that we don't know about

49:11

this case. Exactly. I mean, because all we

49:13

know about, you know, the only clue, quote,

49:15

unquote, you know, that we have is that

49:18

gift, right? That indicates that you may have

49:20

made it home after the bar, but we

49:22

don't have any actual evidence as she made

49:24

it home after the bar. You

49:26

take that with the fact that, again,

49:29

Rocky marriage, she was having an affair. Like,

49:31

you have a lot of factors that do

49:33

lead to wives getting murdered. Sure. By

49:36

their husbands, you know? Like, so there's a

49:38

lot there. And it's like, if you look

49:40

at history, it's like, okay, yeah, you see

49:43

how this shows. But there's no evidence of

49:45

it. Right, right. It's

49:47

clear where investigators stand on the

49:49

case, but does that mean

49:51

they're correct? Detective Kistner

49:54

said that Rick never searched for Bonnie, but

49:56

I've already talked about how he said that

49:58

he and Josh went to reach out. traced

50:00

her steps in the days after she went missing.

50:03

He talks about these searches in both

50:05

those July 30th and August

50:07

3rd newspaper articles that I'd talked about

50:09

extensively at the beginning. But

50:12

there's also an Indy Star article from

50:14

November 2nd, 1997 titled, Man

50:18

Scour's Trail of Wife Who's Missing.

50:21

That article talks about a small search

50:23

with volunteers that Rick organized himself, a

50:26

search that Marion County Sheriffs did not assist

50:29

on because they said that they had already

50:31

covered that ground and that the car was

50:33

gone. That part is interesting

50:35

because you really see that that

50:38

was when Marion County was still on the case.

50:41

And they 100% thought that

50:43

she just took off because like that was

50:45

very much the tone of what

50:48

the deputy was saying is like, we already looked

50:50

there, the car's gone. Like she took off, you

50:52

know, she's gone. They were

50:54

not at all treating this as

50:57

a possible homicide. And

50:59

I don't think anybody was until

51:02

INPD got involved. And like I said, I don't know

51:04

exactly when that was, but it wasn't

51:06

in the first several months. So in

51:09

addition to this like search that he

51:11

put together with the volunteers, he handed

51:13

out 600 flyers, you

51:16

know, in the area as well and urged people in

51:18

the article to keep talking about his wife, saying

51:20

that he and his children weren't ready to give up

51:22

hope. I mean, so he

51:24

has been searching for his wife. Yes, and

51:27

that is something that I do want to

51:29

point out because that's an objective fact. Like

51:32

what Kistner said that he did not

51:34

try to search for his wife is

51:36

objectively untrue. Right. Doesn't

51:39

mean that he didn't kill her. Sure. But

51:42

he did search for her. Recently,

51:44

the group Chaos Divers has traveled to

51:46

Indianapolis to perform water searches for Bonnie

51:48

and her car. Whether

51:50

you think Rick murdered Bonnie or not, most

51:52

people believe that because her car was never

51:54

found that it's likely in a body of

51:56

water, which we've talked about. Bonnie's

51:59

route home. was not only near the White River,

52:02

but close to a bunch of retention ponds.

52:05

So when this was all happening back

52:07

in 2023, Josh

52:09

was extremely supportive of

52:11

Chaos Diver's efforts and

52:14

made a post on Facebook on March 23rd of

52:16

that year. He

52:18

said, quote, please share, I

52:21

fucking love these people. Hope

52:24

is a son of a bitch. One that

52:26

I slowly come to grips with. These

52:28

people have done so much for so many. My

52:30

family feels lucky to have them as part of the team.

52:33

They truly drive the search. Without them, Bonnie

52:36

and the search for her may have been

52:38

lost forever. Love the Chaos

52:40

Divers, end quote. This is

52:42

very much seeming like a son who

52:44

believes that his mother is out there

52:47

somewhere and not necessarily that she was

52:49

put there by his father, right? And

52:52

you can see that he was very close to his father

52:55

throughout his life and, you

52:58

know, stayed that way and

53:00

vehemently defended him against accusations.

53:02

Just a few weeks prior to

53:05

this recording, Josh's tune changed about

53:07

Chaos Divers along with his wife.

53:10

They both made scathing comments

53:13

on one of Chaos Divers'

53:15

Facebook posts. Are

53:17

you familiar with Chaos Divers or Adventures with

53:20

Purpose? No. Okay, so like we've

53:22

talked about Adventures with Purpose before

53:24

in the show, but basically what they are,

53:26

these are two volunteer groups. They

53:28

are divers and they use sonar

53:30

and they volunteer their services basically

53:33

to help with missing persons cases.

53:36

So they'll go magnet fishing, they'll

53:38

go diving, they'll put in sonar

53:40

machines to, usually to try

53:42

to find cars that may have people in

53:45

them. So that's what they

53:47

were doing in Indianapolis. You

53:49

know, they were looking for Bonnie's

53:52

car in the river,

53:54

in retention ponds, in several different

53:56

bodies of water nearby. So,

53:58

of course, Josh is on board. He's like, this is awesome. He

54:01

and his wife, Crystal, went out with them. So

54:04

they did the search and

54:06

actually did find two cars, but

54:08

neither one belonged to Bonnie. So,

54:12

you know, they left and they actually did

54:14

make subsequent trips and did more searches. So

54:16

everything's great. Everything's hunky dory. The

54:18

problem started, like I said,

54:20

just a few weeks ago. I mean, back in May of

54:22

2024, when chaos divers had taken some of the

54:24

video footage that they had

54:30

shot of that, of

54:32

that 2023 trip and

54:34

basically cut it into a couple of different

54:36

videos and reposted it on their Facebook page.

54:39

The issue wasn't with the videos. It

54:41

was with the captions. So

54:43

in order to give context to these videos that

54:45

were shot a year ago, the chaos

54:48

divers, whoever, you

54:50

know, runs their Facebook page basically

54:52

took excerpts from the 2007

54:54

article that

54:56

I've been talking about the 10 year anniversary one to just

55:00

give a basic overview of the case. But

55:04

as we discussed, that article

55:06

was very critical toward Rick

55:09

and very clearly paints him as the

55:11

main suspect. So chaos divers

55:13

are just trying to give context. They're like not

55:15

trying to do anything. So they posted, they're like,

55:17

you know, she went missing, blah, blah, blah, blah,

55:19

blah. Josh goes on

55:21

their video and is heated.

55:24

And so is his wife, Crystal. He

55:27

said, quote, maybe stop if y'all are just

55:29

going down one idea. I've told you all

55:31

plenty of options. Look at the boyfriend from

55:33

broad ripple. I have his address of any

55:35

police are interested. End quote. The

55:38

chaos divers admin apologized and said that

55:40

they were just, you know, again, reposting

55:42

the videos like in trying to give

55:44

context to them. They

55:46

also pointed out that on subsequent trips,

55:48

they searched all of the waterways that

55:50

the family suggested. So again,

55:52

bought, you know, Josh was like, Hey, try

55:55

this pond, try this over here, you know,

55:57

whatever. And they're like, all right, cool. They

55:59

did. have a dog in this fight, you

56:01

know, they were just trying to find her. And

56:03

then Crystal hopped on and

56:05

was like all pissed about it too. The M.O. was

56:08

like, Hey, no, like this is from last

56:10

year when you guys were with us and

56:12

everything was cool. Like, remember that how everybody

56:14

was like happy with us and we

56:17

were looking for Bonnie? And she was like, well,

56:19

we didn't give you permission to

56:21

talk about how we were there. We didn't give you

56:23

permission to put us on social media. Meanwhile,

56:26

like Josh made that

56:28

post himself the year

56:30

before that I had already talked about. So like

56:32

it was just kind of, you

56:34

know, a messy Facebook thing. But

56:37

it's not the first time that Josh

56:39

has ripped into the investigation and detectives

56:41

focus on his father. In another

56:43

Facebook post that he himself posted

56:46

four years ago, back in 2019,

56:48

in which he posted his mother's

56:51

missing poster, a commenter asked if

56:53

police had ever investigated the possibility

56:55

that Bonnie accidentally drove into a

56:57

retention pond on her way home.

57:01

Now, again, I don't know exactly

57:03

what her route home in

57:05

1997 looked at, looked like I've looked at

57:07

the Google maps of it, you know, currently

57:09

in Dunn Street View. I can't

57:11

see a way in which she would have

57:13

accidentally driven into a retention pond. But you

57:16

know, who knows? Maybe there are fewer trees,

57:18

maybe there are less obstacles. I'm

57:20

not sure. It seems unlikely based on

57:22

what I've seen though. But in any

57:24

case, Josh replied, quote,

57:26

I can't be certain what they've done.

57:29

Every time I reach out to them for

57:31

information, they try and blame my father and

57:33

make me feel bad for not having any

57:35

information. Once after I spoke

57:37

with Detective Kistner, he stated to the indie

57:40

star that we never spoke, which,

57:42

side note, I'm cutting off the quote here so

57:44

we can talk about that. He's

57:46

absolutely right. Kistner said that when he went

57:48

to Kalamazoo in 2008, Josh

57:51

and Gretchen refused to speak with him

57:53

about his mother's case. And

57:55

we've already shown that Detective

57:58

Kistner likes to say people

58:01

in this family never did things

58:04

when we have shown that they have. Right,

58:06

and so in terms of Rick searching, we

58:08

have objective proof that he did. In

58:11

terms of Josh saying that he did

58:13

talk to Kitzner about his mother's case,

58:15

that's a, you know. That's what he

58:17

said. He said he said, sure. Exactly,

58:19

we don't know. All right, so

58:21

back to the post that he made. Needless

58:24

to say, I don't trust them any further

58:26

than I can throw them. I will be

58:28

searching and trying to figure out this mystery

58:30

without their help, end quote. He

58:32

continued in another comment, quote, it's only too bad

58:35

that they choose to look at one theory, one

58:37

which they haven't been able to prove for 22 years now. I'm

58:41

not a genius, but it would seem logical to

58:43

possibly look at other avenues, perhaps

58:45

even the one you just mentioned, end

58:47

quote. Now, just as Rick

58:49

stated in those early articles that he had

58:52

searched for his wife, police

58:54

also stated that they had looked

58:56

down under other avenues, searching the

58:58

woods and interviewing Bonnie's boyfriend and

59:00

friends. The police

59:03

investigation wasn't solely looking at

59:05

Rick and in fact didn't start out

59:07

looking at Rick at all. Their

59:09

investigation and what they

59:11

uncovered, of which, you know,

59:14

we only know a small, small percentage

59:16

of the information, but

59:18

it seemingly led them to Rick.

59:21

Whereas Josh's experience

59:24

led him to anyone but his

59:26

father being responsible. But

59:28

that's not to say that Josh believes that his mother

59:30

decided to leave him. In 2007,

59:32

both he and Gretchen said that they did

59:34

believe that their mother was murdered, just

59:37

not by their father. They didn't say

59:39

who? No. I

59:41

mean, obviously, you know, Josh in that Facebook

59:44

post from- Mentioned the boyfriend. Yeah, I said,

59:46

go look at the boyfriend, which in terms

59:48

of suspects, like that's really the only other

59:50

one, you know, because

59:52

I don't think anybody really

59:54

thinks that she just happened

59:57

across a murderer randomly at

59:59

four in the morning. CBE Yeah, who then

1:00:01

was an expert at hiding her car.

1:00:03

BTW Yeah. Nobody thinks that her kids

1:00:05

don't believe that she got up and

1:00:08

left. It seems to

1:00:10

me like it would have been very

1:00:12

difficult for her to accidentally, you know,

1:00:15

drive into a retention pond. Nobody

1:00:17

who knew her believes that she

1:00:19

was suicidal. You know, I think

1:00:21

that she could have purposely driven

1:00:23

into a body of water and

1:00:25

wouldn't have been found. But

1:00:28

again, it just, nobody feels like that's a

1:00:30

likely scenario based on what they know about

1:00:32

her. Impossible, you know, of course not. What

1:00:35

everybody does seem to agree on is that she did

1:00:37

meet with foul play. There's

1:00:40

just a huge divide between

1:00:42

police and the family as

1:00:45

to who's responsible. CBE I get that

1:00:47

with what information there is, it's

1:00:50

logical to trace it back to Rick

1:00:53

because in particular because of motive. BTW

1:00:58

With statistics. CBE Sure.

1:01:00

Sure. But with

1:01:02

what evidence we do have, there's

1:01:04

no evidence that he did it. BTW Yeah. CBE

1:01:06

Other than having motive, that's

1:01:09

it. His daughter alibisim. Yes,

1:01:12

she was asleep. But again, we've gone

1:01:15

over. If something happened at the home,

1:01:17

more than likely she would have woken up and heard

1:01:20

it. There's no evidence that he actually did it. At

1:01:23

least none that we know of. BTW Right. There

1:01:25

are some cases that we've covered where there's

1:01:27

an obvious suspect and like, I'm baffled by

1:01:30

why there hasn't been an arrest in the

1:01:32

case. This one, you can kind of

1:01:34

see why there hadn't been an arrest in the case,

1:01:36

right? But whether

1:01:38

Rick Schultz was, as he and

1:01:40

his children claimed, a grief-stricken husband

1:01:42

and father, or someone who

1:01:44

murdered his wife and hid her body, we

1:01:47

won't hear any more from him. Richard

1:01:50

Schultz passed away on September 18th, 2022

1:01:53

at the age of 71. You know,

1:01:56

I do actually think that that's

1:01:58

kind of important to this as well. if

1:02:00

this was a situation in which like Gretchen

1:02:03

had been covering for her father, let's say, or,

1:02:06

you know, even Josh had been covering for his

1:02:08

father, you know, he's dead now. Right.

1:02:11

And has been for what, almost two years? Yeah.

1:02:14

Maybe that's the

1:02:16

time that you say, okay,

1:02:18

hey, listen, this is what

1:02:20

happened. Mm-hmm. But, you know,

1:02:22

maybe there's also the thing of

1:02:24

like, you don't want to really believe it. You don't

1:02:26

really want to sully

1:02:28

your father's name. You know, there could be a

1:02:30

lot of reasons why you wouldn't want to say

1:02:32

anything, even though he is dead and nothing, you

1:02:35

know, he can't go to jail obviously or anything

1:02:37

like that. But again, also maybe,

1:02:39

you know, they, they truly believe he didn't do

1:02:41

it. Right. Chaos

1:02:43

divers, like I said, have done several

1:02:45

searches, found several cars, but none was

1:02:48

the 1990 dark blue

1:02:50

Mercury Sable station wagon that Bonnie was

1:02:52

driving the night she disappeared. There's

1:02:54

still a chance that Bonnie and her car

1:02:57

are in the murky depths of a body

1:02:59

of water in Indianapolis, patiently waiting to be

1:03:01

found. There's also a chance

1:03:03

that whomever did harm Bonnie didn't act

1:03:05

alone. Even though her disappearance was over

1:03:07

25 years ago, the

1:03:09

answers to what happened to Bonnie Schultz are still

1:03:12

out there just waiting to be found.

1:03:34

Bonnie Schultz has been missing from Indianapolis, Indiana

1:03:36

since July 3rd, 1997. She

1:03:39

was last seen driving her 1990 dark

1:03:42

blue Mercury Sable station wagon with

1:03:44

the license plate 9

1:03:48

9 g 9 6 4 5. Bonnie is

1:03:50

a white female with brown hair and

1:03:52

brown eyes. She was last seen wearing

1:03:54

a shirt with white light blue and

1:03:56

dark blue stripes, navy blue pants, sandals,

1:03:59

a herringbone, necklace, a gold watch, and

1:04:01

a wedding ring. Bonnie

1:04:03

was approximately 5'5 and 160 pounds at

1:04:06

the time of her disappearance. She was

1:04:08

45 when she went missing. She

1:04:10

would be turning 73 next

1:04:13

month. If you have

1:04:15

information regarding the disappearance of Bonnie

1:04:17

Schultz, please contact Detective Kistner with

1:04:19

the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department at

1:04:22

317-327-6160. You

1:04:28

can see all the sources for this episode along

1:04:30

with photos and videos at our website and thentheyweregone.com.

1:04:33

And be sure to follow us on

1:04:35

social and then they were gone pod

1:04:37

on Facebook and at ATTWG pod on

1:04:39

Instagram and TikTok. If you like

1:04:41

what we're doing, please subscribe and consider leaving a

1:04:43

five star review on Apple podcasts. It

1:04:45

will help new listeners find us and the more

1:04:47

people that listen, the more chances we

1:04:49

have of bringing someone home. And we'll

1:04:52

see you here next week for a brand new episode. See

1:04:54

you next week. And

1:04:56

then they were gone is hosted by Kona Gallagher

1:04:58

and Ethan Flick. All research, writing and editing is

1:05:00

done by me, Kona Gallagher. The

1:05:02

music is The Stork by Ketza. Additional

1:05:05

music is provided by Kai Engel. And

1:05:08

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