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Sleep Number stores or sleepnumber.com. Hello

0:55

and welcome to another Arscast Extra

0:57

as always with James from Gunner

1:00

Blog James. Is

1:02

it goodly morning? Can we do goodly morning?

1:04

We won our last game? I think we can.

1:06

We won our game,

1:09

didn't we? And

1:11

it was a goodly morning and a great weekend

1:13

all round really. This

1:16

is the best way I can summarize it, that

1:19

I didn't have to dramatically rewrite

1:22

all my pieces to have a negative hue

1:24

just because we didn't win the title. Sure.

1:28

Like everyone seemed very

1:30

proud and very positive.

1:32

So I think it is a goodly morning

1:34

today. Okay. And so

1:37

how are you feeling like a couple

1:39

of days on from Sunday? Because I

1:42

think we talked about this. I know I wrote about

1:45

it on the blog. You

1:47

know, the sense

1:49

of pride and the sense of, you

1:53

know, togetherness that existed with this team, I

1:55

think is a very real thing. And I,

1:57

you know, not trying to undermine that in

1:59

any way. I think what they've

2:01

done has been absolutely brilliant. It wasn't quite enough to

2:03

get us where we wanted to go to. I

2:07

think they've given 100%. Was

2:09

it Tim who said in the live show on

2:11

Saturday that even in

2:13

the games it didn't quite go our way? You

2:15

never got the sense that anybody wasn't trying

2:17

their best at all times all the way

2:19

through this season. To

2:22

break the records that we've broken on a club

2:24

level, amazing stuff. There's no getting away from

2:26

that. But at the same time, I do

2:31

feel kind of deflated and

2:33

exhausted by everything.

2:37

When I eventually managed to

2:39

get to the pub on Sunday evening, I said to

2:41

you, I think I'm more sad

2:43

than I expected to be. Which

2:48

explained why I was crying so much, I

2:50

guess, Andrew. All the tears running down my

2:52

cheeks. It was important to explain why. I

2:55

write them tenderly away just in case anybody's

2:57

in any doubt. I know

2:59

exactly what you mean. I think

3:01

that part of it

3:03

is just the catharsis

3:06

and finality of the end of

3:08

a season for me. I

3:10

think that obviously we're not

3:12

the players. We don't play

3:14

every game. It's not that degree of exhaustion.

3:20

We live every game and we live

3:22

every moment of that season for months

3:24

and months on end. We

3:26

carry tension and fear

3:29

and hope and expectancy. I

3:32

think when that final whistle

3:34

blows, it's just a

3:36

lot. It is just a lot.

3:38

When I watched those players receiving

3:42

their applause from the crowd and saw

3:45

the deflation and the exhaustion that was

3:47

etched on their faces, you can feel

3:49

a bit of that. As

3:52

a fan, you are involved in however

3:54

rational you might be, however

3:57

logical you might be about it. a

4:00

bit bought in. You

4:02

always believe, right? And

4:05

that's the addiction of football, right? That you

4:07

can never quite rid yourself of that. And

4:09

in a few months time, every fan of

4:11

every club will believe that this, for

4:14

some absurd reason, just maybe there's

4:16

a chance it could be their

4:18

year. And

4:21

so I think that that ending

4:23

for another cycle, for another 12

4:26

months or so,

4:28

is a lot. And I think as well, there's,

4:30

you know, I think

4:33

City winning four leagues in a

4:35

row should

4:37

be depressing to everybody. I

4:40

think it should be depressing to everybody. I

4:42

agree. We might sort of come back around

4:44

to that. I think as well,

4:46

it's the fact that it went all the way to

4:48

the final day, all the

4:50

way to the final game. You

4:53

know, we've come

4:55

close in seasons before, but it's usually

4:57

done a few weeks out from

4:59

the end. And you come to terms with it, you make

5:01

your peace with it. And by the,

5:03

you know, we've had it, hadn't we, the last

5:05

couple of years where the final game of the

5:08

season doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme

5:10

of things, but it's a great day out and

5:12

enjoyable day out. And it's sort of, it's sort

5:15

of allows you to use that

5:17

game and the goodwill that comes with a big

5:19

win because we beat Everton a couple of years

5:22

ago, I think five nil or five one. And

5:24

it was the same against Wolves last year, scored

5:27

loads of goals. The sun is shining and

5:29

you sort of use that game as like

5:32

a springboard into the summer and you

5:35

go into the summer full of this hope and optimism

5:37

and this is what we're going to do and this

5:39

is how we're going to do it. This

5:42

time that final game was

5:46

for all the reasons we all understand it was

5:49

deflating. You know, you have to let yourself

5:51

believe. You can harden your heart as

5:53

much as you want, but there's no point being a

5:55

football fan. If you don't allow yourself on the final

5:57

day where you have a chance, however, it's a great

5:59

day. slim of being

6:02

champions, you have to let yourself

6:04

believe and when you believe you open up the door

6:06

for the pain and the hurt and I think that's

6:08

kind of where I am now is that I haven't

6:11

really come to terms with it

6:14

in a way which allows me

6:16

to look to the future yet

6:18

if that makes sense. Yeah and

6:21

again, you know I'm

6:23

sure we'll come back round to this topic but I

6:25

think it is a

6:27

bit harder to accept when

6:30

it feels a little like

6:32

an injustice. You know it may not be a

6:34

kind of football injustice in terms of

6:36

what happened on the pitch but in terms of

6:39

the mechanics of how City got to where

6:41

they are and the charges hanging

6:44

against them, you know you do,

6:46

I think every Arsenal

6:48

fan surely deep down has that nagging

6:50

feeling of like well, you

6:53

know in any other era,

6:55

in any other time, in a

6:57

just world, you know this team would

7:00

be champions. They

7:02

are all but champions and I think

7:04

that is quite a sort

7:06

of galling feeling fundamentally.

7:09

Yeah. But

7:13

you know to come

7:15

back to the positives, we did do

7:17

our job and that's what we've done

7:19

all season long and I think it

7:22

would have been a much more deflating

7:24

day had we not. Sure. No, I

7:26

think it was really important that we

7:28

won that game against Everton even if

7:30

we left it late I think from

7:33

the perspective of what

7:35

has happened this season and what we've

7:37

produced during this run in and this

7:39

incredible number of

7:41

games that we've won, 28 games, two more than

7:45

the Invincibles won in

7:47

their incredible season, you know

7:49

the goals, the goals against all of

7:52

it. I think it was very important

7:54

for the players even if you

7:56

know like we said I think everybody understood by the

7:58

time that Hubbard's goal went

8:00

in that it. Wasn't going to

8:03

mean anything. A beautiful

8:05

was gonna happen. I mean have you ever

8:07

seen a player looks more like they were

8:09

going to cry after scoring a golden chi

8:11

habits? Ah, No

8:13

an hour and to be honest he

8:16

had that look the an old I

8:18

kind of. yeah I just outside. like

8:20

says Morningside seems to me guess. Was.

8:23

That the players. Were.

8:26

Of many of the players appeared to

8:28

be quite upset. Which.

8:31

Means they absolutely believed the other

8:33

main like whom they. Make.

8:35

It Mckellar. censored, clearly convinced,

8:38

said exactly which is his

8:40

job. I think he's convinced

8:42

himself as well. But

8:44

it does leave them open so that

8:47

her and that pain and I think

8:49

you could see that in a lot

8:51

of those guys have full time. The

8:53

hours are quite taken by that. Actually,

8:55

I was. I'm not that I was

8:57

surprised because I you can see you

8:59

don't do what we've done without putting

9:01

his huge amount of effort into that

9:03

no physical effort, emotional efforts as. Well.

9:06

I don't think you can separate those two

9:08

things, so it shouldn't really have been that

9:11

surprising to me that at the final whistle.

9:14

Despite the fact that we'd one we,

9:17

we weren't going to win the league.

9:19

and you could see almost immediately what

9:21

what the impact was uncertain players, their

9:24

body language, the way they slumped to

9:26

the ground, All. Of that

9:28

thing, but it was quite quite striking all the

9:30

same, wasn't it? It was

9:32

yeah. It's. Source

9:34

of. Sounds. Like a

9:36

had been snatched away from them at the

9:38

last minute. Which isn't quite what happened on

9:41

the day. Know. But

9:43

I guess. If. You're playing for it.

9:46

In. A you A you have to have

9:48

that belief and you have to think

9:50

it is gonna be i year we

9:52

gonna do everything we can and and

9:54

I think is well it's a cumulative

9:56

total is now I think. i

9:58

think some of these play and I

10:02

don't say this in a loaded way particularly, but

10:04

I think some of them have been tired since

10:06

March, you know, and they have rung

10:09

every bit of blood

10:12

and sweat out of the squad to get them

10:14

to this point. And

10:17

so naturally, when that whistle blows

10:19

and you're not lifting that trophy, you

10:22

know, it's going to be a tough moment. And

10:25

we just have to hope, I think, you know, something that

10:27

Arsenal have done really well over the last

10:30

probably four or five years is used the

10:33

pain of the end of the previous season

10:35

to fuel the next. And I

10:37

think it's one of Aetetu's great

10:39

skills, really, the way in which he's able

10:41

to kind of channel that as motivation for

10:44

the following season. I

10:46

actually think it's going to be a tougher ask

10:48

this time, maybe, than any other, just

10:50

because I think they've run an extraordinary

10:54

marathon this season. And

10:59

it's going to be a lot to pick them up

11:01

and go again, but they're certainly saying all the right

11:03

things and making all the right noises. Well, that's all

11:05

they can do. That's all they can do. I mean,

11:07

what do you do? Do you just lie down and

11:09

take it? You know, I

11:12

don't think you can. I think something I was

11:14

chatting to Elliott about on the way back

11:18

to the pub after the game was that, you

11:21

know, we talk about character and we talk

11:23

about resilience. But I think there is something

11:25

when you are at this level of elite

11:27

sport, there is something innate to

11:30

your character, a drive, an ambition that

11:33

you want to win. You

11:35

want to win and it hurts when you don't and

11:37

you have to be able to dig into that and

11:39

use that. I know not everybody is the same. I'm

11:41

not saying all footballers have this, but I think a

11:44

lot of these Arsenal players have demonstrated

11:46

that that's very much part

11:48

of their makeup and part of how they

11:50

operate. So I think

11:52

you're right. I think it is going to be tough. But

11:55

I don't think anybody would have been under any illusions

11:57

that it was going to be easy. If

12:00

you didn't win the league,

12:02

you know, that'll be fine. We'll do

12:05

it next year, etc. You know, they

12:07

have to regroup and hopefully they get some

12:10

good time to recharge their batteries a little

12:12

bit. Obviously

12:14

with the Euros and the Copa American, things like that,

12:16

players are going to be away during the summer, but

12:18

perhaps that might be a

12:20

little bit of a distraction and have them

12:22

ready to come back in August to go

12:24

again. So it was

12:28

a strange game, wasn't it? I don't

12:30

know how much there is really

12:32

to talk about the game

12:34

itself because the atmosphere was

12:36

amazing. The build-up was

12:38

incredible, the noise, the crowd, and

12:41

within a couple of minutes of kickoff, you

12:44

felt the air go out of the stadium. When

12:47

word went around that Manchester City had scored in two minutes,

12:50

how many people did you speak to over the course of

12:52

the weekend who made that kind of, you

12:54

know, that kind of joke, yeah, it'll be all good

12:56

and then City will score in the second minute and

12:58

that'll be that, you know. Yeah, yeah,

13:00

the only thing we got wrong, most people thought it would

13:02

be Harland, but we probably should have realised it would be

13:05

Foden. Yeah, I mean

13:07

the build-up was amazing.

13:10

The stadium was kind of, some

13:13

people told me that it's never been quite

13:15

as raucous as it was before again. On

13:18

the concourses, people were partying, on the

13:20

wall cup to the ground, it

13:23

was loud, it was, you know,

13:25

everybody was ready for

13:28

what was about to unfold. And

13:30

of course, yeah, two minutes in,

13:32

City put the ball in the net and the whole

13:34

thing turns on its head

13:36

a little bit. I mean Everton, you know,

13:38

came to spoil the party. I think even, I don't

13:42

know why teams, more teams don't do it, but even

13:44

that thing of turning us around before

13:46

kickoff, you know, making a shoot the

13:48

other way, it just kind of, I

13:50

think, unsettled things a tiny bit. And

13:54

yeah, that was a big moment too. I

13:56

mean, I'll be haunted

13:58

by the sound of the Everton fans. singing

14:01

You nearly won the league you have two

14:03

minutes into the games. I know I was

14:05

wrong. I was right above them and they

14:07

took a lot of pleasure in that You

14:09

know which are know they're entitled to have

14:11

their fun. Of course. But.

14:14

Now. I really do hope that seven, seven, seven

14:17

by them. And. Turn them into a

14:19

shit crypto currency. That. Is

14:21

worth nothing in a year's time or probably by

14:23

three months time given as track record of that

14:25

crowd. But now you know and I mean A

14:27

was. He was deflating

14:29

because of first I was like while they

14:31

talking about the just you know having a

14:34

laugh hear the just sticking a knife in

14:36

and then it was I com city of

14:38

scored on. I think it did have an

14:40

impact on the game as well. Am.

14:43

I. Don't know what you think by, but certainly

14:45

when that. Deflation Am.

14:49

Spread. Around the stadium and almost fell like

14:51

it spread to the pacers well. Yeah.

14:53

I thought she not seen. A

14:56

maybe one of the place asked about myself

14:58

the game but I haven't seen any of

15:00

them speak about how much they knew at

15:02

various points. But I you know. He

15:06

get the message daddy I think he

15:08

has You must be aware that with

15:10

when. The. Law the life is kind

15:12

of stuff down the crowd. Quite like that. And

15:16

tax it did have an effect. Ah,

15:18

I can buy that. I can buy

15:20

that because actually been in moments where

15:22

you know that was nice. It

15:25

did seem to invigorates. Same as yeah,

15:27

that's true. That's true, am. But

15:31

I said I just watched some of

15:33

the highlights on Matter the day this

15:35

morning before we knew before we started

15:37

recording. But as a game, I have

15:39

to say it's not one that's. Not

15:44

one that I am. not

15:46

a great deal to say about but i

15:48

don't really remember it and that's not a

15:50

sense that's not a during thing by the

15:52

way because only had a couple of beers

15:54

before the game it wasn't that but it

15:57

just seemed all seemed a bit surreal or

15:59

something that were nearly moments. I think

16:01

Martinelli had a shot which

16:03

was saved and you know

16:06

Everton had their chances and

16:08

had their moments too. There

16:10

was a sort of openness

16:12

to Arsenal that isn't usually there.

16:15

It has been a little more present in the

16:17

last few weeks but you know

16:19

there were turnovers and chances for Everton

16:22

to really spoil the party. I haven't

16:26

even looked at any stats usually. I have an idea of

16:28

we had 26 shots

16:30

in this game what the fuck. Yeah

16:33

I mean people made some decent saves in

16:35

the first half. They

16:38

did threaten on the

16:40

break. Calvert-Lewin hit the post didn't he

16:42

when he went through. Had two attempts

16:44

actually second one into the side netting.

16:47

I felt

16:50

like they were breaking

16:52

on us too easily.

16:54

It felt like they were

16:56

running away from Thomas Partey at

16:58

will at times and

17:01

we missed I think a bit

17:03

of security in the middle of the park but

17:08

even saying that their goal was a bit

17:10

of a flute wasn't it. Yeah

17:13

the free kick I hit Declan Rice.

17:16

Sorry I was distracted by looking at

17:19

the stats on who

17:22

scored website and there's a

17:24

video of Noel Gallagher

17:26

at the bottom and

17:29

the subtitles because it's muted the subtitles were

17:31

yeah we could have witnessed Man

17:33

City losing on the final day but it

17:36

never happens is what he said. Fucking

17:40

prick. Yeah

17:43

yeah yeah Declan Rice flicks it in. I just

17:46

don't know if that went down as goal or

17:48

not but no it

17:50

didn't because I guess the

17:53

shot was deemed to be on target

17:56

that was that Was

17:59

close to halftime. And I'm equalize

18:01

pretty soon afterwards as I think is

18:03

important I think that was important. It

18:05

was a nice move am oh to

18:07

guard with a pass since from tommy

18:10

ass is very good and i enjoyed

18:12

the the. Centre. Half

18:14

miss of his celebrations. Yeah.

18:17

Yes, she got in a couple of quite

18:19

promising is asking positions on the day and

18:21

and because it's a neat finish. And

18:24

why enjoyed was that? like? I

18:26

think so I remember correctly. He

18:28

scored and obviously the crowd. Rule.

18:31

Or and would get back into it and then

18:33

that rule kind of. Evolved.

18:36

Into a murmur. and then the second

18:38

rule because I think that was pretty

18:40

much the moment the West Ham got

18:43

one box at. make it to one

18:45

of the Us have. To

18:47

There's a bit of hope that yeah. And then

18:49

the was. was it. First half Where. They.

18:52

Thought it was to to or to

18:54

yeah that when round the ground. And

18:58

are of sea ice in the press box so

19:00

i had why sigh and at a stream

19:02

up and i was like. Tricky

19:05

an eye on everything being like

19:07

as it sounds nice to do, I

19:09

can't find anywhere near us. Before

19:11

concluding this awesomely it was. Oh, it

19:13

was a woman at Newcastle. Moments.

19:18

Yeah, I mean I didn't get

19:20

that excited I needed to see

19:22

Am. I needed to

19:25

see concrete evidence that it was to

19:27

to before I did any celebrating myself

19:29

I was sitting besides yo Hangzhou room.

19:33

In the clock and. And. Hysterical! I

19:35

saw that on Instagram and his two daughters

19:37

fans of is looking across at him and

19:39

he was doing the things with still to

19:42

one that he had his phone out by

19:44

mouth. he's got like a special. X.

19:47

Arsenal player? Why Fi code or something?

19:51

as he seemed to be well connected and

19:53

he was looking for me and I was

19:55

living in a gum notes to one so.

19:57

Didn't. Get am didn't get carried away. That

20:00

one. Which. Is a

20:02

shame unfortunately. Am. I

20:04

mean I have a shame that it was not to to I

20:06

should say. Yes,

20:10

But I even so a half time.

20:13

Or not do enough given the also weren't

20:15

actually doing their job fair. That point in

20:18

time being we weren't winning, There was a

20:20

sliver. Of hope

20:22

from. With. And a

20:24

by the way shoutout to could issue

20:26

a lot of people kind of. Our

20:28

guys get go as hell of a

20:31

goal that yes it really was. I

20:33

only saw it on a phone i

20:35

in the pub afterwards. So.

20:38

I haven't really had. A chance to look

20:40

at it properly. You'll be surprised to hear

20:43

that I did not choose. To

20:45

look at the highlights of Man City

20:47

vs. West time on much of the

20:50

day, I fast forward it all the

20:52

way through that am so I haven't

20:54

really seen As and I don't think

20:56

I can be arsed at this point

20:59

in time fairness Sam am at so

21:01

that's yeah. I mean you know that

21:03

was fun of her. Oh maybe you

21:05

never know I am. We.

21:08

Ask which are as it shows you

21:10

how optimism endures in. I was possibly

21:12

going against us at that point in

21:14

time and yes I still sense to

21:16

the ground there was like and and

21:18

maybe just maybe yeah I mean I

21:20

had died you know I'm and. In

21:23

part because I I really did feel

21:25

that if it was going to happen

21:27

he wasn't gonna be like a straightforward

21:29

well as time of on three nail

21:31

on our soil of one for nail

21:33

and we have now are champions I

21:35

always felt like if it was going

21:38

to happen it was gonna be something

21:40

remarkable. So man city go to in

21:42

a lot and West Ham get it

21:44

back to to to immensity go three

21:46

to up and so our city go

21:48

three to up and West Ham get

21:50

a late goal and we went. our.

21:52

game and and that's how it was gonna

21:55

happen but as soon as west ham when

21:57

three one up or man city rather it's

22:00

wishful thinking on my behalf there, but as

22:02

soon as Man City went 3-1 up, that

22:05

really felt like that was that. Mmm, it

22:07

did. And, you know, Rod

22:10

re-scored it, didn't he, in this sort of sense

22:12

of inevitability about that guy. What

22:15

do you make of his comments? Uhh...

22:18

Yeah, for those who don't, haven't

22:20

seen it, he said... Square has

22:22

everything you're thinking. But do they

22:25

really? I'm Emma Doar. Sorry, go

22:27

ahead. Oh yeah, for those who

22:29

haven't seen it, he gave an interview where he sort

22:31

of said, I think we've won

22:33

the title because of our mentality when

22:35

Arsenal came to the Etihad, and I

22:38

saw they came for a point, they didn't

22:40

come to beat us, I knew we would do

22:42

it. It's something to that effect, isn't it? Isn't

22:45

it? I mean, that's just a classic case of history being written

22:48

by the victors, isn't it? I mean, I

22:51

think that's a kind of post-rationalisation of

22:54

that. I think you and

22:56

I both said before the City game that if we

22:58

were going to end up champions, we

23:00

had a sneaky suspicion it might be a game we

23:03

had to win, but equally

23:05

it was not a bad point at all

23:07

to draw there, and it gave

23:09

us a really good chance if they

23:12

slipped somewhere along the line, and

23:14

they just didn't really. Do you

23:16

think that's a case of him just trying

23:18

to be a bit snide, and

23:21

just putting the knife in a little bit, or is

23:23

it a case that somebody who is an unbelievable

23:27

footballer, like I don't

23:29

care for him because

23:31

he's just so important to Manchester City,

23:33

I'd prefer if he

23:36

wasn't there, I'd prefer if he didn't exist, but

23:39

someone who is an undoubtedly

23:42

brilliant footballer doesn't

23:45

quite understand the game, or

23:48

do you think it is? I mean, that's the only

23:50

thing that that can... there's two

23:52

possibilities. One, he

23:54

is just having a go. He's being snide,

23:56

he's sticking the knife in. The other is that

23:59

he doesn't really understand. Arsenal or

24:01

the game of football or what we've done

24:03

this season because to question the mentality of

24:06

This team is so wide of the

24:08

mark That you know,

24:10

he's either fucking dumb as a boxer rocks or

24:12

he's a prick It's one of

24:14

the other I'm not gonna argue with either of those but

24:17

I think probably I I think

24:21

it's a I Think

24:23

it it tells you about how Some

24:26

elite athletes think I think

24:28

it's a kind of sort of main character

24:30

syndrome, you know, like I think it's I

24:35

Think he's kind of like creating a

24:37

narrative in which you

24:39

know city are the heroes

24:41

and that's kind of what what

24:44

every Sportsman probably does to

24:46

an extent and I imagine maybe as well. It's

24:48

a narrative that has been Concocted

24:50

internally there, you know, maybe it's

24:53

something Guardiola used as motivation or

24:55

to give his side believe I

24:58

don't know It does feel

25:00

a bit like just putting the boots in But

25:03

you know when you lift the title you probably come up

25:05

with all these reasons that You're

25:07

the best and the other team isn't the

25:09

best and because you've got this

25:11

mental strength and they don't Whereas the

25:13

reality is like at some point

25:16

Someone kicked a ball it went in the net

25:18

at one game and it didn't go in the

25:20

net of the other. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah like

25:22

like if I remember gabrozhezus You

25:25

know having a shot at the Etihad or you

25:27

know that went just wide or something And it's like

25:30

well if that goes in the top corner So

25:33

what so then we did have

25:35

good mentality and city didn't have

25:38

the men. Yeah, it's nonsense It's

25:40

fiction, but that's what sport

25:42

is and that's what? You

25:44

know the culture that exists around sport is

25:47

it's creating stories out of quite random events

25:49

and we love it for that reason Well,

25:51

that's all that is from

25:53

you know, I don't take kids

25:55

what his comments anymore seriously Then

25:58

I do those of you know a puzzle it

26:00

who's kind of broad brushstrokes painting a

26:02

story of a season it is it's

26:06

kind of meaningless it's only interesting in terms

26:08

of an insight as to what

26:11

they may say or think but it's

26:14

results based narrative.

26:19

And then you're right you can't really question

26:22

the mentality, the desire, the

26:25

professionalism of this Arsenal

26:27

team and although

26:29

we look at that game and say well we did a

26:31

lot of defending we did have our

26:33

moments as well so what if we if

26:35

we'd scored a goal would that have been a mistake? Yeah

26:38

we had our moments

26:41

and we could have nicked it if we'd

26:43

been more clinical and then you know who

26:45

knows but I think

26:49

maybe it also smacks of arrogance

26:52

of a team who win all the

26:54

time and for whom it's become

26:56

a common place and unfortunately that is

26:58

the reality we live in. Yes

27:02

unfortunately but

27:04

there's no changing it and it's something we're gonna

27:06

have to contend with and compete against and deal

27:08

with and we'll probably circle

27:11

back around like I said to that

27:13

aspect of it but we had a game to

27:15

win we left it left

27:18

it pretty late there

27:20

were chances weren't there, Havards hit

27:22

the post with a very good

27:24

header, Smith-Rowe who might never score

27:26

a goal again at this point

27:30

hit the bar. We had

27:33

a funny old team out there by this

27:35

day shouldn't we? Yes. Joon-Simba came on which

27:37

was good to see but

27:41

you know it was Gabriel O'Donnell.

27:43

Gabriel went off, Tommy Astu sent

27:45

it back, Zinchenko came on, Smith-Rowe

27:47

in his field, Jesus

27:50

on the flank, it was

27:53

you know the relationships I

27:55

think that have underpinned so

27:58

much of what this Arsenal team has done this season. maybe weren't

28:00

quite there. I think

28:03

that explains quite a lot about the

28:05

overall performance. But we

28:07

made a good fist of it and we

28:10

looked like the only team who was going to win it and

28:14

we did eventually get our goal. Yes.

28:18

What do you make of the

28:20

goal? I didn't realise obviously in the

28:22

stadium at the time that there was

28:24

anything at all controversial about it because

28:27

although there was a stoppage for handball, I

28:29

was trying to figure out how could there

28:31

have been a handball. In the end I

28:33

said Gabriel Jesus, no handball. Well

28:38

only after sending the ref over to look at it. I

28:42

was... So first

28:44

I thought maybe they were checking it

28:46

offside against Kai Havot. The lack of

28:48

clarity for fans in the stadium as

28:50

you will have experienced yesterday or Sunday

28:53

as it was. I think it's catastrophic.

28:59

No one has a clue

29:01

what's going on for several

29:04

minutes. As

29:07

soon as they sent the referee over to look at it I

29:10

thought well that's that because that's what's happened

29:12

all season. They've looked at stuff and when

29:15

they're sent over invariably they go with the VAR.

29:19

So I was really surprised to see

29:22

the official stick with his on field decision. So

29:25

was I. So was

29:27

I and actually after I saw the replay I'm

29:29

slightly even more surprised because I can understand

29:32

why Everton would be aggrieved

29:34

by that. I mean

29:36

yeah what do you think? I mean

29:38

nobody... Sean Dyche was quite good on this

29:40

after the game. He said look none

29:43

of us know what's handball anymore and what isn't.

29:45

He was obviously

29:51

frustrated but he

29:53

did sort of hold his hands up and say

29:55

well look you know such a grey area at

29:57

this point in time that is difficult. I

30:00

feel if that

30:03

goal had been scored against us. Not

30:06

good. Not good. I mean I would

30:08

be angry I think that, look I don't think

30:10

it's in the traditional sense of

30:12

a handball right? It's not like he's put his

30:15

hand out and swiped the ball into his own

30:17

path but he has, I mean he's kept his

30:19

arm by his side. He's trying

30:21

to get his arm out the way

30:23

almost. But he's kept

30:26

it right by his side but also used

30:28

his arm to push

30:30

the ball into his own path like if it had

30:33

been scored against us. Like I don't,

30:35

I have to say

30:37

I genuinely don't quite understand why

30:40

having been sent to the screen he upheld

30:42

his decision. I'd love to know the rationale

30:45

of the referee in this. My

30:48

cynical mind, my cynical mind

30:50

tells me that after

30:53

some decisions this season

30:57

by Michael Oliver in games involving

30:59

Manchester City, not least the

31:02

way Kovacic avoided a red card

31:04

on two occasions in

31:06

our game against them earlier this season,

31:08

whether this was his way

31:11

of making

31:17

it look like he's not invested

31:20

in Manchester City in some way. But

31:24

that could be just me. Yeah I mean

31:26

Dije kind of implied he

31:28

felt it was to do with sort of the

31:32

drama of the last day and you

31:34

know trying to make the league as

31:36

close as possible. I

31:40

don't know. I don't know either I'm just

31:42

telling you. I was surprised that it stood.

31:48

I guess and there is a kind of

31:50

absurdity in that I think if Jezuz had

31:52

been the guy you ultimately scored, you know

31:54

if he'd done that, kept dribbled and shot

31:57

and scored I think it probably would have

31:59

been ruled out. That is deemed

32:01

is kind of far back enough

32:03

to not be of slifka consequence.

32:05

But yeah, I. I. Just

32:07

ousted Miss I'm confused by don't

32:10

know what the handball rule is.

32:13

I don't know what the threshold

32:15

to overturn the decision is and

32:17

I don't know what license the

32:19

officials have to overturn the to

32:22

to ignore. The. I emissions

32:24

you isis. I don't. Fucking

32:26

no. No. None.

32:28

Of us I I don't think many of us

32:30

do. To be honest, club feels like the goalposts

32:32

and all these things move over time. I live

32:34

so have given up. Sonic. Teapot

32:36

with it, Do you think? If that. Had

32:39

happened in December, the goal would have stood. God.

32:43

Knows nothing we're I don't think it

32:45

would. I don't think it would have

32:47

felt like a final day decision to

32:50

me. Yeah, and also you got their mind.

32:52

This is in the context of. The

32:54

Premier League about to buy or whether to

32:57

abolish the I I'm. An. Idiot

32:59

like a way of saying. Well.

33:01

The A are isn't this sort

33:03

of external force this coming in

33:05

and overturning decisions all the time?

33:07

Vienna we still empower the on

33:09

field official. It's kind of a

33:11

subjective. you know it's there's room

33:13

for discussion and debate. Or yaya

33:15

as I could, it will be

33:17

about reef framing what B A

33:19

R E's on the final day.

33:22

Don't know. I was

33:24

surprised stood guy habits looked a bit surprised

33:27

that stood. But

33:29

then a you know would have denied as

33:31

the greatest of Martino to guard assists

33:33

well. I was about as far south as

33:35

I was on social media last night and

33:38

I saw a guy I hadn't seen this

33:40

before. Yes, Putting

33:42

forward to theory. A

33:45

seemingly is a serious manner that this

33:47

was in fact. A delicate

33:49

says. You

33:51

know what? The thing about Martineau to guard is? He

33:54

a so goods and he is

33:56

so cool that you could plausibly

33:58

make the case. That

34:01

he had actually. Plan. That

34:03

that that's exactly what he wanted to

34:05

do. I mean for me it's one

34:07

hundred percent a shot that he wished

34:09

that doesn't quite make the contact but

34:11

the way it's a wrong foots the

34:13

defender and I have to say in

34:15

this game there were moments from are

34:17

no to God which are just next

34:19

level. He was so good at times

34:21

some of the past is some of

34:23

the movement, the way you can drop

34:25

his shoulder go the other way. Like.

34:28

You couldn't say with one hundred one

34:30

hundred percent certainty that he didn't mean

34:32

it but I don't think he did

34:34

am and have an unfair to to

34:37

had to took it away and scored

34:39

the goal. Like I said he just

34:41

turned away look like he was gonna

34:43

cry. Yeah. Yeah

34:45

yeah I mean yeah, I'm what

34:47

scared and now. I.

34:49

Really really Really. Don't think that

34:52

was intentional. But since. Martin.

34:55

In I've if it is it was let

34:57

the world man yelling at you every time

34:59

in the assist Us issue and efforts. For

35:01

a guy who it was unintentional to celebrated

35:04

very cooley amazing no no like oh shit

35:06

I just miss that it's just such as

35:08

a citizen of wheels away like yeah I

35:10

was asked by stop us from the Us.

35:13

I did enjoy A so I mean is

35:15

super cool about that kind of stuff you

35:17

know? So. as

35:20

we had a good game but it is

35:22

did Africa my for us to my school

35:24

and and this was certainly. One of them

35:26

and charge as a sexually who.

35:29

Abololo know humble makes the intersection.

35:31

Ah yes, that is kind of

35:33

thing that he is really. Really?

35:36

Really excellent and without that with him and

35:38

again. We.

35:40

Won the game. Final

35:42

Whistle goes Yes, Liars

35:45

reacts. But. The fans reacted

35:47

to. The supporters inside the

35:49

stadium were very quick to.

35:52

sing the songs and to show their love and

35:54

their appreciation for what the team has given us

35:57

over the course of the season i think you

35:59

know I'm sure some people

36:01

did and I'm not standing

36:03

in any kind of judgment because to each their

36:05

own we're all entitled to react the way that

36:07

we want to react and if the

36:10

disappointment of not getting it over the line

36:12

was too much for some people they just

36:14

wanted to go and be by themselves or

36:16

go have a beer, absolutely fine, no problem.

36:19

But I think it was really instructive

36:21

that the vast, vast

36:24

majority of people stayed inside that

36:26

stadium to hear from Martin

36:28

Odegard, to hear from Michael Arterta to

36:30

show this team

36:32

that they appreciate what they have

36:34

done and what they have tried

36:36

to do and what they tried

36:38

to achieve this season and came

36:41

so very close to achieving this season.

36:43

I think that was, that

36:45

is for all my disappointment and

36:48

exhaustion and tiredness and all

36:52

of that. I think that

36:54

moment or those few minutes

36:58

will really live with me for a long time

37:00

because you

37:02

have to put your own disappointment

37:04

to one side in order to

37:07

transmit to those guys what

37:09

you want to transmit, you know, to say

37:12

thanks in the way that you can

37:14

individually and as a collective with your

37:16

applause and with your songs and with

37:18

your voices. It

37:20

was quite a, what

37:24

is the word I am looking for, quite a moving few

37:27

minutes that, you know, because you could, like we

37:30

said, you could see just

37:32

how down they were and how impacted they

37:34

were by, you know, getting to the end

37:36

of the race. It must be like running

37:38

a marathon and the guy

37:41

in front of you just has a

37:43

second. He is a

37:46

second quicker than you and you have gone for so long

37:48

and he has just won it by that. You

37:50

just want to fall down. He is taking

37:52

his head into steroids as well. Exactly, 115

37:55

different types of steroids and you know,

37:58

he is, you know, what do you want to do? I

38:00

can lie on the ground and go asleep and

38:02

not wake up for a while. But

38:04

I really do think that was quite

38:07

special. I

38:09

agree. I agree. And

38:11

I think it's the defiance as

38:14

well. That's quite moving, isn't it?

38:16

To hear, you know, Martin

38:19

Odegard not saying just we gave it our

38:21

best shot. Sorry, but saying, you know, we're

38:23

going to come back and try to

38:26

win everything. And Michelartes

38:28

is saying don't

38:30

be satisfied to the supporters. You know, we

38:32

want much more than this and we're going

38:34

to get it. The

38:37

players and the manager are so on message,

38:42

so unified, you know,

38:44

and you see after

38:47

that the families come on. It's the wider

38:49

support network for that group, the people who

38:51

we don't see who live

38:53

that journey alongside of them, who

38:56

support them, who cheer them on, who

38:59

commiserate with them on the difficult

39:01

days. And you see

39:03

the whole club looking so unified

39:07

and as one. It

39:11

is an emotional thing for us and we're

39:13

part of it. We are part of it

39:15

as supporters. And I think that is

39:17

the real positive that

39:19

we can take away from this

39:22

season yet again is that we feel

39:25

so tightly knit, you

39:27

know, players, fans, staff,

39:30

families, everyone was

39:32

together in that moment and it's

39:36

not a trophy, but it's still

39:38

a special feeling. Yeah, you know, it's

39:40

more progress, isn't it? You know, that

39:42

is not

39:45

something anybody can argue

39:48

against when you win the

39:50

most games you've ever won in a 38 game league

39:52

season. When you score more goals,

39:54

I don't know if we scored more goals this season

39:56

than any other. I know there are

39:58

stats out there. I think

40:00

we did, yeah, Premier League goals record.

40:04

When you look at the run that we've been on since that

40:07

trip to Dubai, it's unbelievable.

40:09

They have pushed

40:12

as hard as they can, really. There

40:15

are always moments you can look back on and

40:17

always things that you can think

40:20

about and say if only, if only.

40:24

Is it 49 points

40:26

from 54, something like that in

40:28

2024? It's absurd,

40:32

really. It is. And

40:35

then you look

40:37

at what Manchester City have done and

40:40

they haven't lost a game since December.

40:45

I mean, it's ridiculous. It's

40:47

genuinely ridiculous. They obviously went out

40:49

against Madrid in shootout

40:51

or whatever, but they haven't lost a

40:54

match within 90 or 120 minutes for

40:56

months and months and months. I

41:01

think it's like 40 something games or something like that,

41:03

30 something, 40 something, I don't know, it's a mad

41:05

run they've been on. How

41:08

do they do it, Andrew? How

41:12

indeed, James? How indeed? I

41:14

mean, yeah, shall we circle back round

41:16

to what I'm calling

41:18

the Fuck City section of the podcast?

41:21

I think that's fine. Do you

41:23

have any particular angle you want to go on this?

41:26

Or, you know? Well, I

41:28

just think... I mean, the

41:30

Lance Armstrong comparisons that have been doing

41:32

the rounds, I think

41:34

are very relevant

41:38

and maybe

41:41

the wider point about this is sort

41:46

of about not what City have

41:48

done or what they do. Like they've won four

41:50

in a row, they've won four in a row

41:52

and everyone's like, whatever. There's

41:55

no... I certainly don't get the

41:57

sense from any other football fans. You

42:00

can objectively say they're a brilliant

42:02

team with a brilliant manager, with

42:05

brilliant players and what

42:07

they've done in terms of their own results

42:09

is brilliant. There's no other way of putting

42:12

it but there is no respect

42:15

for it within the wider

42:17

football community because everybody understands

42:20

that there is something fundamentally

42:24

wrong with it, right? We

42:27

know, everyone knows and

42:29

there's zero respect for it.

42:32

It feels mechanised and soulless

42:34

and I understand the

42:36

sort of fuck city aspect of it but

42:38

I'm more

42:41

indifferent to them but angrier

42:44

about the way the game in the

42:47

Premier League, the way

42:50

the Premier League themselves I think have to

42:52

take some responsibility for this, for

42:54

the way that the game has been

42:56

allowed to be used in the

42:58

way it has from Abramovich

43:01

onwards and the natural

43:03

consequence of Abramovich was something like Manchester

43:05

City. Yeah and I think

43:07

you're right, nobody cares, nobody cares about

43:09

Man City and

43:11

I actually think that that is

43:13

sort of inherent to the project. I don't

43:16

think that's necessarily because of the money or

43:18

where it comes from. I think

43:20

there are ways you could build

43:22

a club that

43:25

sort of imbued a

43:27

greater sense of connection or

43:29

identity but there is

43:32

something just absolutely clinical about

43:34

Manchester City. Like there's

43:37

no character to it. Do

43:40

you know what I mean? I

43:42

feel like City as a club at

43:44

least had this kind of fundamental identity

43:48

pre their current

43:51

ownership and when they were sort of a

43:53

yo-yo club and they actually had quite a

43:56

distinct cultural identity at that point

43:58

of time. think

44:00

that's just been completely eradicated. It's to

44:02

the point where it's now invisible. Like

44:05

Man City, those two words

44:08

don't mean anything anymore.

44:11

And I think for a Man

44:13

City fan, if I have spoken to Man

44:15

City fans, for whom it's a hugely alienating

44:18

experience, because the club you support now

44:20

is basically fucking Premier League MK Dons.

44:23

Like it's in the same city, but

44:25

it is not that club. And

44:29

no one gives a shit. And

44:33

obviously, rival

44:36

fans of Arsenal's will

44:39

have a laugh at this and be like, they thought

44:41

they might do it, they didn't get there. But

44:44

the reason they're able to do that is

44:46

because we are rivals, people care about Arsenal.

44:48

No one cares about Man City. Nobody

44:52

cares. And I've

44:54

been consistent on this, like as much as I

44:56

have in my antipathy for

44:58

VAR, like when City were

45:00

in title races with Liverpool, I wanted

45:02

Liverpool to win them because it meant

45:04

something. Yes, 100%. And I know that

45:06

I've seen, you know, Liverpool

45:08

fans on social

45:11

media say, well, Arsenal, you know, they

45:14

know how it feels now. And they were laughing at

45:16

us. But like, I'm with you, I was always when

45:20

we were like, three, four years

45:22

ago, five years ago, in

45:24

the doldrums. And you're thinking

45:26

to yourself, how where is this football club

45:28

going? Where are we? Like,

45:31

how can we get back to something that

45:33

we can connect with in a in a

45:36

true sporting sense? Looking at

45:38

what Liverpool did with Klopp, always

45:40

gave me just that little bit of hope

45:43

that like, you know, it is kind of

45:45

absurd, isn't it? That to be the slightly

45:47

plucky underdog to Manchester City, you have to

45:50

be owned by an American billionaire. Like, I'm

45:52

not blind to that. Of course, you

45:54

know, but that is what football is these

45:57

days. Your underdog is just the guy who

45:59

has only eight. or seven billion

46:01

to his name rather than tens and

46:03

hundreds of billions but as a

46:06

sporting project if you want to use that

46:09

that phrase what

46:11

Liverpool did was they had a great manager

46:13

and they had good recruitment

46:15

policy and they put together good

46:17

players and they spent money of

46:20

course they did but so have

46:22

we we've got to spend a lot of money

46:24

to get to where we are to compete with

46:26

Manchester City but it

46:28

was that that gave you the slight

46:30

hope that it is still possible to

46:33

compete or still possible to maybe

46:36

win it every now and

46:38

again so yeah and

46:41

also and also

46:44

Liverpool are a club that

46:46

have this kind of emotional current

46:48

running through them and Klopp is

46:50

a manager who engendered that

46:52

and they played in a style that

46:54

was exciting nothing

46:58

about City is exciting nothing

47:00

about City is emotional

47:03

it is pure like

47:05

cold rational calculation and

47:08

it's impressive but no one will

47:10

ever care about it yeah I

47:12

guarantee you and you know

47:15

I was so struck when they beat

47:18

Spurs my

47:20

counterpart of the Athletic for the Manchester

47:22

City correspondent is Sam Lee yeah and

47:25

he wrote a piece the next day

47:27

about songs miss in the you

47:29

know whatever it was 87th minute and

47:32

the kind of headline and the thrust of

47:34

the piece was finally City

47:36

season has a moment you

47:39

know this idea that like this is going

47:42

to be an iconic moment it's going to live on that will

47:44

define this title challenge to

47:46

which I thought two things how extraordinary that the

47:49

iconic moment of their season is a miss by

47:51

player who plays for somebody else and

47:54

how absurd that

47:56

they could have got to the 37th game

47:58

of a title a title-winning season

48:01

without having a moment worth

48:03

remarking upon. Like,

48:05

our season is littered with

48:08

those moments. We did a podcast at the weekend where

48:10

we picked six. Do you know what I mean? It's

48:12

like, we each picked one each and we had six.

48:18

There's nothing for them to do anymore.

48:20

It doesn't mean anything. Like

48:23

literally, their fans celebrate

48:26

with a posnan by turning away from

48:28

what's happening on the pitch and not

48:30

watching. There's nothing to

48:33

see here, Andrew. It's

48:35

fucking boring. I agree 100%. It's

48:37

boring. It's

48:40

relentless. It's

48:42

bad for the Premier League. There's no

48:44

two ways about it. It's a catastrophe.

48:46

It's a complete catastrophe. Four

48:49

in a row, it's never been done.

48:51

This is kind of, this is like

48:53

Bayern Munich walks into the Bundesliga era,

48:55

you know? I know

48:58

that we pushed them all the way. Yeah, and

49:00

at the end of the day, there's only once

49:02

he was going to win it and asked the

49:04

bookmakers who they thought was going to win the

49:06

title at every point in this title race. I

49:09

saw Adam Krafton call it, it feels sometimes like

49:11

the illusion of a title race and I know

49:13

what he means. We were in

49:15

it, don't get me wrong, but there

49:17

is this crushing inevitability about it.

49:20

It's not just four in a row though, is it?

49:22

It's six out of the last seven. I have to

49:25

say, Guardiola sort of, oh,

49:27

I could never have dreamed of winning

49:29

six out of, it's like, come on.

49:32

Well, listen, there

49:35

is some sour grapes here, obviously, for me,

49:38

and I accept that. And

49:41

I give Guardiola his due. He

49:43

is an extraordinary

49:47

coach and manager. Yes, nobody questions that.

49:49

I don't think anyone questions that. He's

49:51

the best, right? He is almost

49:53

certainly the best. And

49:56

I think that's

49:59

it. I think plenty of

50:01

other people could not have done

50:03

that with that collection of plays.

50:06

But yeah, I don't know. I'm

50:09

also at the point now where I have

50:11

so little faith in the

50:14

Premier League to right the

50:16

wrongs of it that I look more

50:18

now at Guardiola's departure than I do

50:20

at anything else. I sort of

50:22

think that's

50:24

our window when he goes, because I'm not

50:26

relying on anybody else to level the playing

50:29

field. Yeah, there were a lot of rumours

50:31

going around in the pub after

50:33

the game and maybe before the

50:35

game as well. You

50:38

know, that city, we're going to get punished in the

50:40

summer and this is what was going to happen and

50:42

that's what's going to happen. I'll

50:45

believe that when I see it, to be honest. I'll believe it

50:48

when I see it. And I think you're right. As

50:50

I said on stage on Saturday night,

50:52

I'm absolutely 100% ready

50:55

for Pep Guardiola to fuck off.

50:58

Whether it changes the trajectory of Manchester City

51:00

that much, I really don't know. I mean,

51:03

with a little question here on Twitter about this

51:06

from JDH, who's

51:09

at JDH underscore 14, he said, Arsene

51:12

Wenger said this of competing with

51:15

Marseille while he was at Monaco.

51:17

How do you think Arteta feels about our

51:19

situation? Is this team being cheated out of

51:21

the glory they've earned and deserved? Do you

51:24

empathise with Klopp being tired of it and

51:26

walking away? What Wenger said was, it

51:28

was the most difficult period of my

51:30

life. When you're in a

51:32

job like mine, you worry about every detail,

51:35

but then go to work and to know

51:37

that it's all useless is a disaster.

51:40

And this was, you know, based on

51:43

for those that aren't aware, there were

51:45

match fixing allegations and it

51:47

was one of those situations. I think that at

51:50

the time everybody knew, but it wasn't proven

51:53

until after the fact and you have to

51:55

compete with it during that period. It's

51:57

kind of exhausting. I

52:00

think it's really exhausting for us as fans.

52:04

Do you know what the big difference is, of course,

52:06

from Arsene Wenger? Is that... Arsene

52:10

Wenger was never the assistant manager at Marseille. Well,

52:13

yes, I suppose. Michael

52:15

Arteta, I think, is much

52:18

more accepting of

52:20

Manchester City's position in the game.

52:23

And any of us are. And I think

52:27

that's sort of necessary, actually. You know, he

52:29

never, ever makes

52:33

excuses or alludes to their

52:36

potential impropriety. He

52:40

only is full of praise

52:42

for their play,

52:44

their coaching, their organisation. And

52:47

as he always says, this is the

52:49

level. Yeah. This is the standard. So

52:52

he accepts what Manchester

52:54

City are. He knows intimately what

52:57

they are. And he

52:59

takes that challenge on. I

53:02

mean, that, you could say, is

53:04

just... complete

53:06

pragmatism. Maybe. Because he's been there,

53:08

he's seen it, he knows what it is. He knows what

53:11

you have to do to try and compete with it. Maybe

53:13

he has no faith in the Premier League

53:15

doing anything about it. Maybe, you know,

53:18

he's aware that for these charges to

53:20

be proven, there requires a measure of

53:23

compliance from Manchester City, which the Premier

53:25

League are never going to get. I

53:27

don't know. But maybe his... My sense

53:29

is, he's not encumbered

53:31

by the kind of philosophical,

53:35

you know, philosophical idealism

53:37

that Arsene was at

53:40

times. And I

53:42

think, actually, that's exactly what

53:44

we need. Because

53:46

that is the playing field, that is the

53:49

world we're competing in. We

53:51

need a manager who thinks like,

53:54

well, if we can't beat them, join them. If we have to

53:56

go and buy a player for 100 million, then that's what we

53:58

have to do. You know,

54:00

I think this competing

54:02

with City right now would

54:05

be difficult for us in because of

54:08

his, because of who

54:10

he is. But I think Mikael's a

54:12

different breed and he's a winner

54:14

at all costs, at any costs. And

54:17

I think that's the manager that

54:19

we need right now. No, I don't disagree

54:21

with you. I just think, you know, that

54:23

outlook of his is completely is underpinned by

54:26

an almost complete understanding of the

54:28

situation from all sides,

54:31

from the Arsenal side, obviously, but from

54:33

the side of, you know, internally at

54:35

Manchester City, externally in the

54:38

Premier League, what powers they have

54:40

or how toothless they might be, you might want

54:42

to put it in that way. So I do

54:45

think that his outlook is just based on that

54:47

complete understanding of what it is,

54:50

what's likely to happen or not happen, and what you

54:52

have to do if you want to compete with that,

54:55

because your only other option is

54:57

to just say, well, fuck it, someone else can

54:59

do it, I'll go somewhere else. Yeah.

55:01

And we, you know, we have

55:03

to be honest about, you know, the

55:06

lengths we're going to, to compete with them.

55:08

You know, it's not like, you

55:10

know, every player grew up within half a

55:12

mile of the ground and they all came

55:14

through the academy. We're now spending massive amounts

55:17

of money to try and rest

55:19

this title off Man City. And

55:22

that's what, you know, the club has been driven

55:24

to and we're happy to be that they're

55:27

doing that. But it

55:29

does kind of feel crazy.

55:31

You know, we are now in the arms race, aren't

55:33

we? It's like we're looking

55:35

at another summer, probably of massive

55:38

expenditure, just to kind of keep

55:41

pace with this juggernaut. Yeah. Yeah.

55:45

That is, that is the

55:47

reality. That is what we have to do. That is

55:50

the only thing we can do. We've

55:53

probably got some questions about, you know, how we

55:55

do it and all the rest. Yeah. So why

55:57

don't we? Yeah, maybe we should just. Take

56:00

a little break here. Alright, let's

56:02

do that. Let's do that. Let's take a little break.

56:04

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slash Arseblog. Welcome

58:37

back to the Arsecast Extra. This is part two

58:40

of the show where we answer questions that you

58:42

send to us on Twitter at

58:44

Gunnarblog and at Arseblog also on the

58:46

Arseblog Discord chat server which you get

58:48

access to if you are an Arseblog

58:51

member on Patreon. James, you talked about

58:53

this weekend being emotional

58:55

and there were a few things that

58:57

made me emotional over the weekend

58:59

for various reasons. I wrote about it a bit

59:01

on the blog today. If people

59:03

want to go and read that, there was one very

59:05

specific thing that I mentioned in that blog. But

59:08

another thing that

59:10

made me emotional was sitting

59:12

in the airport, sitting in Heathrow on

59:16

Monday morning, had

59:18

my laptop out, was just sort

59:20

of looking around social media, looking

59:22

at stuff and I

59:25

got the Ian Wright match of the

59:27

day video and I

59:29

was sitting there very

59:32

emotional at that. So I just want to

59:34

take a moment to say, I don't know,

59:36

do you say congratulations to Ian Wright on

59:39

leaving match of the day or do you say thank you

59:41

for all the great stuff that he's given us down the

59:43

years on match of the day?

59:45

It would have been an emotional day for

59:47

him, for Arsenal not winning

59:50

the league but also doing his very final

59:52

match of the day. So we

59:54

should give a big shout out to Ian Wright

59:56

for all the enjoyment and pleasure that

59:58

he's given us down the years. and I

1:00:01

think Amy, did Amy say

1:00:04

talk about how he had changed

1:00:07

plundatory in ways that we haven't

1:00:09

quite come

1:00:12

to terms with yet or

1:00:14

quite understood yet so I

1:00:16

just wanted to just wanted to go there for a

1:00:18

moment what did you think? Yeah I

1:00:20

think I said that actually Andrew I think

1:00:23

I imagine something similar but I'm

1:00:27

sorry I'm confused and befuddled

1:00:30

by everything that's happened in the last couple of days so

1:00:32

my apologies for not remembering. I remember

1:00:34

her saying something about the emotion that he showed

1:00:36

because he said I'll love you man or something.

1:00:38

Yes that's what it was. You would never have

1:00:40

seen that on TV. Alan

1:00:43

Hanson turning to Mark Lawrence and today I

1:00:45

love you man. I do think he has

1:00:48

changed plundatory dramatically and

1:00:50

in ways that aren't fully appreciated

1:00:54

I think he's been an incredible

1:00:56

ambassador for us as Arsenal fans

1:00:59

and yeah I'm sure we'll still

1:01:01

see lots more of him but he's been a brilliant

1:01:03

runner much of the day and I think it is

1:01:06

very emotional because I think everyone who

1:01:08

knows his story knows what that program

1:01:11

means to him. So yeah, take my

1:01:13

hat off to you. My

1:01:15

brother was in London this weekend just

1:01:18

coincidentally over in London and we met

1:01:21

for some

1:01:23

breakfast and a couple of pints he came to

1:01:25

the pub before the game and headed off before

1:01:27

things got too hectic in there but we were

1:01:29

talking about Ian Wright and you know

1:01:32

he's a Liverpool fan obviously and

1:01:35

for someone to sort of

1:01:37

cross the divide in the way that Ian

1:01:39

Wright does, my

1:01:41

brother just said everyone loves

1:01:44

him. How can you not

1:01:46

love him? And it's not true of all

1:01:48

pundits and club biases

1:01:51

have an impact on how you view the

1:01:53

people that you see on TV or listen

1:01:55

to on the radio but I think there

1:01:57

is just sort of within the game itself

1:02:00

an appreciation and a love for Ian

1:02:02

Wright that transcends club

1:02:04

rivalries and that's maybe the

1:02:06

best thing that you can

1:02:08

say about what he has brought to our screens

1:02:12

and beyond for the last however many years

1:02:14

it's been. Yeah, absolutely. To

1:02:17

be so partisan and so loved

1:02:20

is amazing. It shows it can be done. Very.

1:02:25

But yeah, so and also we should say

1:02:27

as well in terms of the weekend more

1:02:29

broadly, it was brilliant to see everyone who

1:02:32

came out to the live show. Thanks so

1:02:34

much for everyone who came to that. It

1:02:36

was a really fun time and

1:02:39

lovely to meet so many people. Yes, it

1:02:42

really was. Do you want to

1:02:44

go first? I'll let you go first. Okay.

1:02:47

Yeah. All

1:02:50

right. Well, this is Jake.

1:02:53

Actually, let's just go with this. Ash. I'll come

1:02:55

back to you, Jake. Ash said

1:02:57

Ashwin talks ball. If

1:03:00

City has found guilty of their charges,

1:03:02

how will you guys look back at

1:03:04

this season? I

1:03:07

guess it depends on what the punishment is. Like

1:03:10

what would what will it be if they are

1:03:13

found guilty? I'm not sure. Like

1:03:16

I've got little faith that anything will

1:03:19

really have the pet Guardiola of lawyers.

1:03:22

Yeah, but not just one. Dozens

1:03:25

of them, a whole team of them. So

1:03:28

I don't I don't know that it will

1:03:30

change how I feel about this

1:03:33

season. If they're

1:03:35

punished and like we're awarded the

1:03:37

title, will I feel like we

1:03:40

didn't deserve it? Like

1:03:42

if we'd finished 15 points

1:03:45

behind Manchester City in second,

1:03:47

let's imagine and City get

1:03:49

punished and the Premier

1:03:52

League is awarded retrospectively to us,

1:03:55

I would find it hard to

1:03:57

say that we deserved it. You know what I mean? Whereas

1:04:00

if that happened, and it's obviously a huge hypothetical

1:04:02

and I don't think it will, if

1:04:05

that happened this summer, I would

1:04:07

not feel like the title was undeserving. Then

1:04:10

you might hit different levels

1:04:12

of frustration or anger because

1:04:15

you have been denied, because

1:04:18

of everything,

1:04:21

you've been denied the

1:04:23

experience of celebrating

1:04:26

that communion that you would have

1:04:28

had on Sunday if we

1:04:30

had won it. You could feel how

1:04:32

the whole area around the ground, not just around

1:04:34

the ground but in All

1:04:37

Around Upper Street, All Around Islington, All

1:04:39

Around North London, you could feel how

1:04:41

that entire area was primed to go

1:04:43

off. You

1:04:46

know what I mean? In a good

1:04:48

way. Maybe it wouldn't all have been good but there

1:04:52

probably would have been some mischief and that

1:04:54

along the way. You could feel how it

1:04:56

was ready for everybody to celebrate that. So

1:04:59

would I take it? Absolutely. Would

1:05:02

I feel slightly frustrated

1:05:04

and bitter that the moment

1:05:07

that we could have shared, all of

1:05:09

us together, like whether you were

1:05:11

in North London or around the

1:05:13

world with your Arsenal friends or in

1:05:15

an Arsenal bar or with an Arsenal

1:05:17

supporters club, would I

1:05:20

feel that you've been denied something truly

1:05:22

special? Yes. Yeah.

1:05:25

That's the thing. I don't think

1:05:27

any punishment or any retrospective

1:05:32

stripping of the title from City can make

1:05:35

up for the loss of that

1:05:37

moment, that day, that party, that

1:05:39

parade. Do you know what I

1:05:42

mean? We ain't having

1:05:44

a parade for a retrospectively awarded title.

1:05:46

No. And

1:05:48

yeah, it just, you know,

1:05:51

that's kind of the tragedy, the greatest tragedy

1:05:53

of Liverpool, that their one

1:05:56

title win that they did get happened behind

1:05:58

closed doors. I mean, yeah. Fuck

1:06:00

me, that's pretty grim, isn't it? It is.

1:06:04

So yeah, it's... How

1:06:07

will I feel? I

1:06:13

don't think I'll feel that differently. If

1:06:15

they're charged ultimately, and if the charges are

1:06:17

proven, I don't think... It'll

1:06:21

change much for me. But

1:06:24

yeah, let's wait and see. I

1:06:27

mean, just on that, Progman07 says, is

1:06:30

the side product of this city dominance

1:06:33

that rival fans can only celebrate other

1:06:35

rivals' failures to win trophies? Especially on

1:06:37

social media, it feels like many fans

1:06:39

only express joy on other teams' lack

1:06:42

of success. And you know, I... Football

1:06:45

is all about rivalry, and it is

1:06:47

all about an inverted commas, the

1:06:50

banter and all that kind of stuff, right? That's

1:06:52

important. It's at the heart of

1:06:54

it. But like you, I remember

1:06:57

talking to... I

1:06:59

think it was Neil from the Anfield Wrap

1:07:01

about winning the title

1:07:03

in that COVID season, where

1:07:06

they just couldn't... They

1:07:08

couldn't celebrate it the way you would normally

1:07:10

celebrate a title. And you know, obviously it's

1:07:12

amazing to win the league, but we have

1:07:15

something similar in that the

1:07:17

last trophy we won, we

1:07:19

weren't able to celebrate it. The right

1:07:21

way, you know? You can celebrate it and be happy

1:07:23

and all that. But you were one

1:07:25

of the very few people who was inside

1:07:28

that stadium that day. And maybe

1:07:32

that just adds to the surreal nature of all of

1:07:34

this. I think so. I think

1:07:36

it does rather. Hang

1:07:39

on, I have a better question. That

1:07:41

was just sort of an aside. Okay,

1:07:43

go on. Gibzino says, Morning gents,

1:07:45

what a season it's been. Thank you for making it even more

1:07:47

wonderful for us. You're welcome. My question

1:07:50

is, what did you make of Arteta throwing on

1:07:52

Smith row before Gabriel J. Zus, an

1:07:54

indication of contrasting destiny for both those

1:07:56

players next year? And Marti also on

1:07:59

the Discord said... What do you make of the

1:08:02

decision to give Smith row minutes in the

1:08:04

final game when we were chasing the win

1:08:06

instead of Vieira for instance? Is there something

1:08:08

in that? Yeah, it was quite

1:08:10

striking wasn't it? Just because it's been

1:08:12

used relatively and frequently this season and yet when

1:08:14

we were really up against it, there

1:08:19

he was. One of the first off the bench. I

1:08:22

think it's probably not a great sign for

1:08:24

Fabio Vieira to be honest with you. Right.

1:08:28

That would be, I'd probably

1:08:30

say that more than I would say it's great

1:08:32

news for a Mil Smith row. I

1:08:37

was also, I know Jesus got

1:08:39

on in the end and made a big contribution

1:08:41

in the end but I was also looking at

1:08:43

thinking, I was

1:08:46

a little bit surprised it took him as long to get

1:08:48

off the bench as he did. Yeah, same. Maybe

1:08:51

they have real fears about his

1:08:53

body and maybe they

1:08:55

thought he could do 20 minutes but

1:08:57

not 30. I don't know. What

1:09:02

did you make of those subs? Yeah, what did you

1:09:04

think of that? Yeah. Was this

1:09:06

anything? I mean it might do. I was

1:09:08

a little bit surprised to see Smith row. Okay,

1:09:10

maybe not surprised because I was thinking about well who can

1:09:12

you put on here to get a goal? And

1:09:16

he would have been one of

1:09:18

my first choices obviously to change

1:09:20

something in midfield but yeah, no

1:09:22

Vieira. I think that is, I

1:09:26

think it's as you said more

1:09:28

bad news for Fabio Vieira than it is

1:09:30

good news for Smith row but I also

1:09:32

think it might

1:09:35

just tell us something about next season. Yeah,

1:09:38

there's only so much we can do in terms of

1:09:40

letting players go but

1:09:43

what happens isn't all

1:09:46

completely driven by what the club want to do.

1:09:48

There's also what the player wants to do. I'd

1:09:51

be very surprised if next

1:09:54

season Emile Smith row

1:09:56

got significantly more minutes

1:09:58

than he has this season. which

1:10:00

then begs the question about what

1:10:03

does he want to do this summer? Does he want

1:10:05

to stay and be a bit part player at Arsenal

1:10:07

or does he want to go and play

1:10:09

football on a regular basis? So it

1:10:13

might be seen as opening the door for him

1:10:15

but you know if we buy a midfielder or

1:10:17

bring in somebody else next season I you know

1:10:20

he could easily be as

1:10:22

much on the bench next year as he

1:10:24

was this year so yeah. I

1:10:28

do think it was sort

1:10:30

of interesting insight about a

1:10:33

talented evaluation of him though you know in

1:10:35

a situation where he needed a goal he

1:10:39

did go to Smith Row and you

1:10:41

know maybe that's partly why last summer he sort of

1:10:43

dug his heels in and the club said you're not

1:10:46

going anywhere. I would

1:10:48

be like you I think that he will

1:10:50

want to go somewhere this summer. I

1:10:53

think he should I think he needs to play more and

1:10:57

you know I don't take any pleasure from saying that

1:10:59

but I think we are at that point yeah. What

1:11:04

about this one I do think this is kind of an

1:11:06

interesting question French for Baba

1:11:08

Voum on the Discord said would we

1:11:10

have won the league if we'd still

1:11:12

had Granite Shaka this season? I

1:11:16

don't know I don't think

1:11:19

so because let's

1:11:22

just say let's make it really simplistic

1:11:25

if you still have Granite Shaka do you have Kai

1:11:27

Havarts? I don't

1:11:29

you know let's say that right you don't have

1:11:32

Kai Havarts if you don't if you still have Granite

1:11:34

Shaka. And I

1:11:36

think Havarts contribution

1:11:38

has been really really

1:11:40

impressive in the second half of the season and you

1:11:42

know we don't need to go over how you

1:11:46

know how it took him time to settle in

1:11:48

and all the rest but I

1:11:51

think I'm just going to quickly look at the numbers

1:11:53

unless you have them right in front of you but

1:11:55

just in total. 14

1:11:58

goals 7 assists for Havarts. 13

1:12:01

goals in the Premier League. With

1:12:03

the best will in the world and as much as

1:12:06

I grew to appreciate

1:12:08

Granite Shaka, he ain't scoring you 13 goals.

1:12:12

I think someone would have

1:12:14

to do the breakdown but I think

1:12:16

some of those goals were goals that

1:12:18

won us points. So

1:12:24

without those goals I don't think we'd have as many

1:12:26

points and we wouldn't have been in a title race

1:12:28

all the way to the final day. I

1:12:33

think that is the way I look at it as well that probably

1:12:36

moving Shaka on was quite

1:12:38

important in terms of allocation

1:12:40

of salary. I

1:12:42

don't know if we would have been able to

1:12:45

get say right and have us in had we

1:12:47

not sold Shaka. That

1:12:51

said he had an absolutely outstanding season.

1:12:54

I mean genuinely if Levakus

1:12:57

can go on and win the

1:12:59

Cup and Europa League it's

1:13:02

one of the great campaigns

1:13:04

ever. Like

1:13:06

without losing a game. In

1:13:09

any competition? That

1:13:13

would be a pretty unique achievement

1:13:15

and I'm delighted for him. There

1:13:20

certainly were times this season where we could have

1:13:22

used him but I think we

1:13:25

evolved in a way that made us better

1:13:28

actually. Maybe

1:13:31

the question is more

1:13:33

open if you

1:13:35

say if you had had Granite

1:13:37

Shaka and Kai Haaritz could

1:13:39

ourselves have won the league. I

1:13:42

think that's probably more likely. I

1:13:46

think as much as people

1:13:48

would point up Villa or maybe

1:13:51

mention the Etihad I think really

1:13:55

the league was lost. I don't really like using

1:13:58

that language but probably. first

1:14:00

half of the season when things hadn't quite

1:14:02

clicked. Probably the

1:14:04

points dropped there and having the stability

1:14:07

and the consistency of Shaka throughout

1:14:09

that period might have helped us.

1:14:12

Okay, what about this one from Jay

1:14:16

on Twitter who's at

1:14:18

Jan Hoppe. I

1:14:21

know this is not the most technically or tactical

1:14:23

question you'll ever be asked in your life but

1:14:25

I kind of enjoyed it. He

1:14:27

said City scored a high amount of goals

1:14:29

from long shots this season with players like

1:14:32

Rodri, Foden and De

1:14:34

Bruyne at all contributing clutch moments. Is

1:14:37

that the next step in our evolution? Do

1:14:39

we have a player who will just twat

1:14:41

one in when we really need it?

1:14:47

Do we have one? I don't know. I

1:14:49

mean we've told this party you used to

1:14:51

try it all the time didn't you? That

1:14:54

seems to have faded somewhat. Yeah it worked

1:14:56

once. Yes Declan Rice

1:14:58

did score a cracker of a goal

1:15:01

from long range against West Ham. It

1:15:03

was the sixth in a 6-0 win

1:15:05

though. Absolutely, yeah exactly. Same probably applies

1:15:08

to Eddien Kettya scored one didn't he?

1:15:10

Shefford United from outside the box. Do

1:15:13

we need a player who can do that? Do

1:15:16

you know what? I think of

1:15:19

course that'd be great. I sort of

1:15:21

slightly pushed back on the idea that

1:15:23

City players are sort of smashing them

1:15:25

in from all sorts of

1:15:27

angles. I think they're all scoring goals

1:15:30

from the edge of the box. Like that Rodri

1:15:32

goal he scored against West Ham. Didn't see it.

1:15:34

You won't have seen it but it's a kind

1:15:36

of carbon coffee, which tastes horrible but it's also

1:15:39

a carbon

1:15:43

copy of the one he scored in the

1:15:45

Champions League final where he's kind of arriving

1:15:47

onto a pullback. Not unlike I suppose. Didn't

1:15:49

see that goal either by the way. Right

1:15:52

well you go you're doing well. Foden

1:15:56

you know he seems to have unlocked this trick

1:15:58

of kind of cutting inside. and hanging

1:16:01

one into the far corner. The edge

1:16:03

of the box. Aryan Robin. Oasis loving

1:16:05

Aryan Robin little cunt. Yeah. But, you

1:16:08

know, Pekaya Sakka did that against Nite

1:16:10

Forest on the opening day and he's

1:16:12

got that in his wheelhouse

1:16:15

as well. I

1:16:17

don't look at our team actually and think

1:16:19

what we need is a guy to smash

1:16:21

one in from 25, 30 yards. That

1:16:24

isn't what I think. I

1:16:27

think that

1:16:29

if we really, really, really

1:16:31

want to beat City

1:16:34

and want to beat up the rest

1:16:36

of the Premier League and win

1:16:38

it, oh God. We've

1:16:40

probably got questions about that, haven't we? About what

1:16:42

do we need to do? Yeah, maybe. But there's

1:16:44

a long summer ahead. Maybe we should just let

1:16:47

the dust settle a little bit before we do

1:16:49

those questions. Yeah, mate. We need something to talk

1:16:51

about. I mean, it's not something that's on the

1:16:56

stats set

1:16:58

ups, is it? You know, a player out of

1:17:01

100, what percentile is

1:17:04

he in for distance twattery? I

1:17:06

don't know that you can really

1:17:08

scout for that or buy

1:17:11

a player just because they can do that.

1:17:13

I think, you know, your

1:17:16

needs are more rounded than that. But I, you

1:17:18

know, the same time if you do have

1:17:20

players who can produce those finishes from just

1:17:23

outside the box or even

1:17:25

a little further, they can

1:17:28

be the difference between winning

1:17:31

games or not when you are

1:17:33

a team like Arsenal, like City,

1:17:35

who inevitably face sides

1:17:37

who sit deep and try to block off space.

1:17:40

Where is the space? It's kind of in front of the

1:17:42

defence. And

1:17:45

I think, you know, I know the probabilities are low

1:17:47

as well when you shoot from distance, which is

1:17:49

why managers want the ball to go into the

1:17:51

box and you cut it back and you've got

1:17:53

much more chance of scoring. But

1:17:55

to have players who can produce is

1:17:58

really useful. And I think City do have a

1:18:00

lot of opportunities. a number of players who can

1:18:03

do that, we don't necessarily, but I don't think

1:18:05

it's really something you would be looking at when

1:18:08

it comes to sort of talking about what

1:18:10

the team is missing and what it really, really needs.

1:18:12

I think the discussion will

1:18:14

be more variable or nuanced than

1:18:16

that. Yeah, I think, look,

1:18:18

if we're talking about goals for midfield,

1:18:21

I think we sort of have to take how that's out of

1:18:23

that a little bit because a lot of his

1:18:26

football was played up front, right, particularly in the second half

1:18:28

of the season. But I think

1:18:30

it was seven from Declan Rice, eight

1:18:33

from Martin Odegard. I

1:18:35

think Odegard can score more goals than that.

1:18:37

I don't know, he had a sensational season.

1:18:39

I agree, yeah, yeah. I think he's got

1:18:41

the potential. But I think it's really the

1:18:44

second layer below that, you know, how many

1:18:46

goals did we get from Emil Smith-Rowe? How

1:18:48

many goals did we get from Fabio

1:18:50

Vieira? Not enough,

1:18:53

whatever it was. And I've

1:18:56

got a feeling it wasn't very many. And

1:18:59

I really think that that's probably an area

1:19:02

where we need to improve, you know, forget

1:19:06

where City are scoring their goals from on

1:19:08

the pitch. But, you know, if it's not

1:19:10

Rodri, if it's not Foden,

1:19:13

then it's, if it's not

1:19:15

De Bruyne, then it's Bernardo. Do you know what

1:19:17

I mean? Like there's a level of depth there

1:19:19

and sharing goals amongst a

1:19:23

lot of players. I think we need a

1:19:25

bit more of that in our squad. Yeah,

1:19:27

yeah. Just looking at the midfielders, like you

1:19:29

said, it was Odegard with eight in the

1:19:31

Premier League, Rice with seven. Gabriel Martinelli had

1:19:33

an underwhelming goal-scoring season as

1:19:35

well. It's fair to say with only six,

1:19:37

Eddie and Kedia with five, three of which

1:19:40

came in that hat-trick against Sheffield

1:19:42

United. Gabriel Jesus, only four goals

1:19:44

this season. Gabriel and Ben White

1:19:47

with four goals this season. And

1:19:50

then Fabio Vieira won. Yeah. Smith

1:19:53

row, no goals. Thomas

1:19:55

Parti, no goals. Georgina, no

1:19:57

goals. Yes,

1:20:00

there's room for... For

1:20:02

me, in that Vieira Smith row layer, where

1:20:04

it's like you need a few goals from

1:20:06

those guys for sure, I think they can

1:20:09

be the difference. What

1:20:11

about this... What about

1:20:14

this for a depressing question? Jake,

1:20:18

and I think it's completely valid, Jake

1:20:20

Ampleford says, sorry to be negative, but

1:20:22

do you think this was our golden

1:20:24

chance? We've been pretty fortunate with injuries

1:20:26

this season. Is there a

1:20:28

fear of burnout from not achieving any kind of trophy

1:20:31

this year? Mmm... I

1:20:34

mean... I think the point about injuries is a good one, you know? It

1:20:38

was a good chance. Was

1:20:42

it the only chance or the golden chance?

1:20:46

I can't let myself think that way, you

1:20:49

know? I don't think that

1:20:51

way, but I... I know

1:20:53

that... Yeah, go on. I was

1:20:55

just gonna say, I don't... I mean, we

1:20:58

basically had... Our

1:21:01

starting centre backs available

1:21:03

for every game. We basically had

1:21:05

Declan Rice available for every game.

1:21:08

We basically had Martin Odegard and

1:21:10

Bukay Saka available for

1:21:12

every game. Mmm... I

1:21:16

will be very pleasantly surprised if

1:21:18

we get that next

1:21:20

year. I just feel like... I

1:21:23

mean, listen, these players are resilient, and part of the

1:21:25

reason they're signed is because of that resiliency. But

1:21:29

I do accept that we had... I

1:21:32

think... Well, personally, I think we had a pretty good run

1:21:35

if it injury-wise. I think so too. William

1:21:37

Saliba, 4,502 minutes. I

1:21:40

think he... What's the stat? He's

1:21:42

the first Arsenal defender or the

1:21:44

first player to play every minute of every

1:21:47

Premier League game for a long time? Lee

1:21:49

Dixon, I think. Lee Dixon, wow. 91 maybe.

1:21:52

He's got only two players in the Premier League this

1:21:54

season to do it. Who's the other one?

1:21:57

I actually can't remember. Okay.

1:22:00

Shouldn't we just find out? You speak and I'll see if I

1:22:03

can find out. Alright. But,

1:22:06

you know, as for next year or whether

1:22:08

this was the golden

1:22:10

chance, I've said this before but when

1:22:12

we lost to, lost Champions

1:22:14

League to Tottenham that season, everyone said, or

1:22:17

not everyone but a lot of people said, well that was their

1:22:19

only chance. We came back

1:22:21

better and when we missed out on the

1:22:24

title last season, as the title campaign, you

1:22:27

know, stumbled towards the end, everyone said,

1:22:29

well, nobody expected Arsenal to do this.

1:22:32

This is their only chance and they've blown it or

1:22:34

they've bottled it or whatever bullshit fucking nonsense

1:22:36

they came out with and

1:22:38

this time around we've gone the

1:22:41

distance with Manchester City and I have

1:22:43

to believe that we

1:22:47

are going to go again and try and be better and

1:22:49

try and improve. Well,

1:22:52

by the way, the second player was Max Kilman

1:22:54

of Wolves. I see he shouldn't have even got

1:22:56

it because he should have been sent off for

1:22:59

that foul on Havertz. There you

1:23:01

go. There

1:23:04

was a

1:23:06

few people who asked questions on this

1:23:08

theme about, you know, us potentially

1:23:10

going even better next season, Cadet Cool Guy

1:23:12

on Discord and Adam Salter here on Twitter

1:23:14

who says, I spoke with Andrew at Allie

1:23:17

Pally about whether the players on this team

1:23:19

were better than the Invincibles. Do

1:23:21

you think this team could go on

1:23:24

to go Invincible? Is

1:23:27

that the only way we'll beat Man City? The

1:23:29

five games we lost we should have won or

1:23:31

at least drawn. Yeah, I mean, I mean,

1:23:35

even just saying that out loud tells

1:23:38

you the state of

1:23:40

the Premier League, right? Do we have to

1:23:42

go through an entire season without losing a

1:23:45

game to realistically compete with Manchester City? Maybe

1:23:48

we do. Maybe we

1:23:50

do. But, um... Do you find it

1:23:52

plausible? No. I mean, I guess

1:23:54

Leverkusen have done it. Well, Leverkusen have done it. It's

1:24:00

a farmer's league I believe. No, I don't mean

1:24:02

that. I just mean in terms of the amount

1:24:04

of teams in it James. I'm not throwing around

1:24:06

the pejardives here. I

1:24:09

think it is an 18 team league, the

1:24:11

Bundesliga. So you've got some

1:24:14

fewer games. You've got four fewer games over the

1:24:16

course of the season. So it's a 34 game

1:24:19

league season versus 38 in the

1:24:22

Premier League. I don't really think

1:24:24

it is plausible because for

1:24:27

all their dominance and for all their might

1:24:31

and whatever

1:24:34

else you want to call it, Manchester City have never

1:24:36

been able to do it. And

1:24:39

you would probably say that if there is

1:24:41

any team that is placed

1:24:43

to repeat that feat it would be them

1:24:46

but they haven't been able to do it.

1:24:48

So I don't know that it is plausible

1:24:50

to suggest that an Arsenal team could

1:24:53

go on and do it even if that is probably

1:24:56

what we're going to have to do or come very

1:24:58

close to doing that in order to win the league.

1:25:01

But maybe that

1:25:03

is a bar that Michael Artero can

1:25:05

set for these players. Wenger

1:25:09

spoke about it and was roundly mocked. I

1:25:12

wouldn't advise Michael Artero to speak about it

1:25:14

in public but maybe behind

1:25:16

the scenes with his players on the

1:25:18

training ground as they regroup and look

1:25:20

to go to a new season and

1:25:23

go on better and win the Premier League. Maybe that

1:25:26

is the goal that he has to put in their

1:25:28

minds. That is the sort

1:25:30

of standards that they are going to have to try

1:25:32

and match. Whether

1:25:34

that is something that would be something

1:25:38

to strive for like a goal

1:25:40

that they are all collectively behind or it might

1:25:42

paralyze one or two. It is like

1:25:44

oh my God that is a lot of pressure. So

1:25:48

I don't know. I don't

1:25:50

know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

1:25:52

yeah. What else

1:25:54

have you got, Andrew? I have just been scanning

1:25:56

the questions I have pre-selected and they are all

1:25:58

kind of on the theme. of like how

1:26:01

what do we do about Man City which

1:26:04

I feel like we've kind of covered. Yeah

1:26:06

yeah yeah let me just see a few

1:26:09

to finish off I guess. Hedge

1:26:12

blog on the Discord says having had such a

1:26:15

good league season is the next step to push

1:26:17

on in the cups and

1:26:19

that's maybe something that we haven't discussed is

1:26:21

that we want Arsenal to

1:26:23

do even better in the Premier League next season

1:26:25

but I think you can also look at the

1:26:27

cup competitions and hope that we are better in

1:26:30

those as well. Yeah definitely I actually

1:26:32

think that's kind of the the

1:26:35

black mark against the season for me.

1:26:37

I sometimes feel like I'm the last

1:26:40

person who still cares about domestic cups

1:26:43

but I do think they're really important.

1:26:45

I think silverware is

1:26:48

essential you know when you have a good

1:26:50

period like this nobody wants to

1:26:52

be and I'm not just saying we are

1:26:55

Pochettino Spurs you know a side that challenges

1:26:57

and he's good and he's in the running

1:26:59

but doesn't come away with any medals and

1:27:02

you know Jurgen Klopp is

1:27:04

going to be remembered as a legend

1:27:07

at Liverpool and he only won one Premier League

1:27:09

as we keep saying but what did he do

1:27:11

along the way he picked up every other prize

1:27:14

you know league cup, FA Cup,

1:27:16

won a Champions League, got

1:27:19

to Europa League final and

1:27:22

I think we need to become one

1:27:24

of those clubs who almost irrespective of

1:27:26

what Man City do in the Premier

1:27:29

League we ensure that we are arriving

1:27:31

in the final stage of competitions year

1:27:33

after year and and winning things.

1:27:35

A lot of

1:27:37

these players at Arsenal have never

1:27:39

won anything in their career.

1:27:43

We forget that because they're so good but they

1:27:46

don't have any medals to show for it even

1:27:49

Prokkais Saka you know I

1:27:51

think he was an unused substitute

1:27:53

in 2020 when we won that

1:27:55

FA Cup. That's true yeah. And

1:27:58

that was it's starting to feel like a while

1:28:00

ago now and it was a very different team. So

1:28:03

I think it's really important and there's

1:28:05

no reason that we

1:28:07

can't just blow past the competition

1:28:09

and go and win a Carabao Cup, go

1:28:12

and win an FA Cup. Why not? Man

1:28:14

United, for God's sake, are in an FA

1:28:16

Cup final this year. I

1:28:19

think it's actually actively important.

1:28:22

I think the biggest clubs compete

1:28:24

on multiple, and I

1:28:27

think next season we won't really have an excuse not

1:28:29

to do that. I

1:28:31

think that's fair. I think

1:28:33

that's fair. That's another way of making progress,

1:28:35

isn't it? Even if you don't win the

1:28:37

league, if you can have a trophy or

1:28:39

two under your belt, like how many league

1:28:41

cups of Manchester City won? Exactly. Nobody cares

1:28:44

about the league cup, which is fair if

1:28:46

that's the way you think, but that

1:28:49

is not how Guardiola

1:28:53

has solved you. I think if we're being

1:28:55

honest with ourselves, it's not how we'd feel

1:28:58

when we were lifting it. No, absolutely not.

1:29:00

It's a trophy and you

1:29:02

have that moment, you can recognise

1:29:04

the competition for what it is.

1:29:07

I'm not saying it's one of the Premier League or

1:29:09

the Champions League, I'm not saying it's in the big two,

1:29:11

but I do think that when

1:29:13

I look back at this Arteza period, because it's

1:29:15

probably not going to be a 20-year period, is

1:29:18

it? It's probably going to be five,

1:29:20

six, seven, eight years, if we're lucky kind of

1:29:22

thing. I want to have the

1:29:25

memories of the celebrations, I

1:29:27

want to have the pictures of the players,

1:29:29

their medals, I want to have a picture

1:29:31

of Arteza holding a bloody big

1:29:34

cup up in the air, and I want

1:29:36

to have as many of those things as

1:29:38

possible. I care about it and

1:29:40

I think it's something we need to do

1:29:42

better at next season. Speckled Jim

1:29:44

on the Discord says, does

1:29:46

Jurean Timbre qualify as the

1:29:48

most like and use signing player of all

1:29:50

time? Yeah,

1:29:54

I think he does. He

1:29:57

looked lively when he came up, that's it. At

1:30:02

one point I was like, was

1:30:04

looking at him and he

1:30:06

was playing sort of in

1:30:09

the center forward position, sort of like an

1:30:11

inside right in old-fashioned terms. I was like,

1:30:13

I was saying to Elliot, like look where

1:30:15

timber is and he's inside the opposition box

1:30:17

as, I don't know who had it on

1:30:19

the right hand side, could have been Martin

1:30:21

Ellie, could have been Odegard, but

1:30:23

timber's in the box, like holy shit.

1:30:26

He got himself around, he got stuck

1:30:28

into one particular tackle,

1:30:31

which was quite fun. So

1:30:34

yeah, hopefully he can rebuild his fitness

1:30:36

over the summer and be a big part

1:30:38

of it next season. I think so.

1:30:40

I mean, listen, I was really excited, listeners

1:30:43

may remember when we first got him,

1:30:45

I think he's a

1:30:48

top player and I think he'll

1:30:50

add a new dimension next season. I

1:30:53

think he'll really become

1:30:55

an important player quite quickly. So

1:30:58

yeah, like a new signing I get it. Let

1:31:00

me just ask you this, because we're going to have weeks and weeks

1:31:02

of transfer

1:31:05

questions and everything

1:31:07

that comes with it, but do you think

1:31:10

that this summer the

1:31:12

sort of signings we make

1:31:15

will be timber-esque in

1:31:17

terms of player profile and price?

1:31:20

Do you think they're a bit more likely

1:31:22

than something huge

1:31:25

and extravagant like a Declan Rice? Maybe

1:31:31

a bit more so, yeah. The

1:31:33

only reason I say that is because by this

1:31:35

time last year, we all

1:31:40

kind of knew that Arsenal were going to try and

1:31:42

spend £100 million on Declan Rice. And

1:31:44

I sort of think when something is so big, maybe

1:31:47

it's more likely that reporters will

1:31:50

know about it. Yeah,

1:31:56

I mean, the one that's in

1:31:58

that sort of... The thought of

1:32:00

Bracket is potentially Bruno Guimaraes, you know,

1:32:03

as a player that Arsenal

1:32:05

like who would cost a lot of money. But

1:32:09

I'm expecting a few players for sort of the second

1:32:12

layer of the squad, you know, which would

1:32:14

be lower down. I

1:32:17

don't know though, you know, I think Arsenal have

1:32:20

surprised me with their ambition in

1:32:22

several windows now and

1:32:25

maybe they will do so again. Yeah,

1:32:27

it will all play out

1:32:30

over time won't it? Final

1:32:33

one from Jamie1678, he says maybe a bit

1:32:35

out of left field but in James' piece

1:32:37

for the Athletic, he mentioned the team playing

1:32:39

werewolf to bond in the second half of

1:32:42

the season. As a former theatre

1:32:44

kid myself who has played this game countless times, this

1:32:46

fascinates me and I'd love to know any more

1:32:48

that James has heard about it. Did he hear reports

1:32:50

who was very good at the game or anyone who

1:32:52

was very competitive about it? And

1:32:54

I've got no clue what werewolf is or how it works.

1:32:58

Right, well if anyone has ever seen the TV

1:33:00

show The Traitors, it's basically that.

1:33:03

I'm guessing you haven't seen that either. So

1:33:06

I think it also goes by the name

1:33:08

Mafia, I've played it under

1:33:11

that name as well. It's

1:33:13

basically essentially a parlour game

1:33:15

where, how

1:33:18

to describe it, I'm going to Google

1:33:21

it because it's relatively complex.

1:33:23

Yeah, give me like the top

1:33:25

line Wikipedia explanation of

1:33:27

it and I'll go for it. It's a

1:33:29

Russian social deduction game created

1:33:31

by Dmitry Davidov in 1986. So

1:33:36

basically the game models

1:33:38

a conflict between two groups,

1:33:40

an informed minority, the mafioso

1:33:42

or werewolves and an uninformed

1:33:44

majority, the villagers. At

1:33:46

the start of each game, each player secretly assigned

1:33:48

a role affiliated with

1:33:50

one of these teams. Each team

1:33:52

has alternating phases. First, a night

1:33:55

phase during which those with night

1:33:57

killing powers may covertly kill other

1:33:59

players. and second, a day

1:34:01

phase in which all surviving players debate

1:34:03

and vote to eliminate a suspect. Right.

1:34:06

So basically, you know,

1:34:08

everyone shuts their eyes, except

1:34:11

the people who know they are a

1:34:13

werewolf or a traitor

1:34:15

or a mafia. And they're like, we're

1:34:17

gonna kill Steve. Kill Steve.

1:34:20

And then everyone opens their eyes and Steve

1:34:22

is dead. And

1:34:24

the group must discuss, you

1:34:27

know, they're like, you know,

1:34:29

Fabio Vieira will have an argument with

1:34:32

Muhammad al-Nani. He's like, I think that

1:34:34

Karl Hein is a werewolf. And

1:34:37

Karl will be like, I'm not guys. Honestly, I'm

1:34:39

just a villager. Meanwhile,

1:34:41

in the corner of the room,

1:34:43

Cedric's there rubbing his palms

1:34:45

together. He is the werewolf all along and

1:34:47

nobody knows. That's

1:34:50

the kind of social dynamic I'm envisaging. OK. And

1:34:53

then what do I know about it? I don't

1:34:55

know who were the best players. I know that

1:34:57

they play a lot in

1:34:59

the hotels, on the coach, etc, etc. And

1:35:03

I know that, you know, it's sort of snowballed

1:35:05

into quite a big thing for the squad in

1:35:07

the second half of the season. Even

1:35:09

the coaches were trying to get involved. Everyone

1:35:13

wanted in on the werewolf. Everyone wanted

1:35:15

in on the game. So,

1:35:17

yeah, it's quite fun. I mean, football

1:35:20

is generally it's like video games and

1:35:22

cards. So I quite like the idea

1:35:24

that they were sort of playing this sort of role

1:35:26

playing game. It's

1:35:28

quite fun. Well,

1:35:30

you know, it obviously helped and

1:35:32

brought people together because, you know,

1:35:34

the little things that feed into the kind of run

1:35:36

that we were on in the second half of the season

1:35:39

that got us to the final day. Everything

1:35:41

is part of the mix, isn't it? So we'll

1:35:44

have to see what what crazy games

1:35:46

they get up to next

1:35:48

season. I think we should leave it there.

1:35:50

Let me just say something, James.

1:35:52

Thank you to you for sharing

1:35:56

the season with me here on this podcast. It's

1:35:58

always a pleasure. pleasure. It's one of

1:36:01

the, I don't want to say the easiest things

1:36:03

that I do in my life because that sounds

1:36:06

dismissive in some way, but you know what

1:36:08

I mean? What about the technical difficulties, Andrew?

1:36:10

Well, those, you know, I don't... They're the

1:36:12

bane of your life. I don't encumber you

1:36:14

with those, but doing the show with

1:36:16

you every week is a real

1:36:18

pleasure. And I feel

1:36:20

like, you know, one day we'll get there and we'll be

1:36:22

talking on the last podcast of the season

1:36:24

about how we've won the league, not to be this year,

1:36:26

but thank you so much for

1:36:29

being here throughout. My pleasure. Thank you

1:36:31

for having me. It's been a, it has

1:36:33

been a real pleasure this season. And

1:36:37

thanks to everyone listening. I always say

1:36:39

it'd be weird if we were just doing it for ourselves. I

1:36:41

mean, we could, we could just sit in a room

1:36:43

and talk to each other, but that would be... Well,

1:36:45

that is all that's happening ultimately, but there's all these

1:36:47

people outside the room. Yeah. There is to the wolves.

1:36:51

Werewolves? Don't

1:36:53

know. Hard to know. Some of them.

1:36:55

Yeah. What James just said there about

1:36:58

all of you who've been with us

1:37:00

from start to finish

1:37:02

this season. And I know above and beyond that

1:37:04

as well. Thank you so

1:37:06

much. I'm sorry for all of us that

1:37:08

we didn't quite get where we wanted to,

1:37:10

but we'll go again. And

1:37:13

this team will hopefully continue its

1:37:15

progression and continue to

1:37:17

challenge and to fight the

1:37:19

power of Manchester City and

1:37:21

get us that Premier League title that we all

1:37:23

crave so much. So until then, take it

1:37:26

easy folks and we will catch you on

1:37:28

the next one. Bye-bye. Access

1:37:55

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