Natasha Degen is the chair of the graduate program in art market studies at FIT in New York. She has just published a book called Merchants of Style, Art and Fashion after Warhol.

That subtitle doesn’t really capture the depth and nuance of her book. SHe has written an anatomy of the ways art and fashion have become intertwined in the present-day global economy.

It’s not just that major fashion brands have latched onto artists as way to market their wares and their brands. Degen unpacks the cultural codes and institutional structures that have promoted this convergence. In this podcast, she also speculates on what has been gained and lost by both art and fashion—and what’s at risk going forward.