0:00

Well hey hey hey, it's time for Ask the

0:02

Tech Guys. I'm Leo Laporte coming up. You

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know what's smarter than your brand new AI PC?

0:08

Your car! Samba Bull Sam, it'll

0:10

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0:12

I am Micah Sargent, and we

0:14

answer a listener question about why

0:16

he keeps making voice recordings

0:19

when he's just trying to send a

0:21

message to a friend. This was a

0:23

good catch on Micah's part. Plus the

0:25

2,000 word manuscript that

0:27

even word can't swallow. It's all coming

0:29

up next on Ask the Tech Guys.

0:56

Well hey hey hey, how are you today? Look

0:58

who's here. Hello! It's Micah Sargent

1:01

back from the past. Back to

1:03

life. It's so good to have

1:05

you. I missed you terribly my friend. I

1:07

missed you and I'm glad to be here. I

1:09

missed all of you out there who tune in

1:11

and ask us great questions. I'm always talking about

1:13

all of you when you know I'm having conversations

1:15

with people and they ask me a question. I

1:17

said, I actually had that question come up on

1:20

the show. I do. So it's great. It's great

1:22

to be back. That's why they call this Ask

1:25

the Tech Guys. Now last

1:27

week thank you Alex Lindsey for filling in for Micah.

1:30

He answers questions every morning on office

1:32

hours so he was very facile with

1:34

the question answers. I bathed. He

1:37

fit right in. But that guy who

1:39

was the week before just all by himself, he

1:41

was awful. Oh my goodness. I

1:44

did not like that at all. I'm

1:46

glad you're back. So we answer your tech

1:48

questions at 888-724-2884. That's a phone. It

1:54

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1:56

Yes. Yes. You can call that phone during the

1:58

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2:00

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2:02

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2:04

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Audio and video are also acceptable and

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2:49

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2:51

that then we know you do have

2:53

a question. Yes. So get in touch

2:56

to ask your questions of these the

2:58

tech guys. So

3:01

top stories this week I think we'll be talking about

3:03

this a little bit more I suspect

3:07

on Twitter as well. We talked last week about

3:09

Windows Recall. This is a feature

3:11

of the new CoPilot Plus PCs

3:13

that Microsoft announced a couple of

3:15

weeks ago. These are PCs with

3:17

AI built in and the big

3:19

feature that Microsoft was touting again

3:22

it requires these specific PCs running Windows

3:24

11 Pro but this specific feature was

3:26

called recall if I remember

3:29

correctly. Yeah I do recall that. And

3:31

the idea was as soon as you

3:33

turn on the computer every few seconds

3:35

it records a screenshot of what you're

3:37

doing and then assigns various AI to

3:39

analyze that screenshot to give you text

3:41

and context and so forth and puts

3:44

it in the database and

3:46

then you can the whole idea is sometime

3:48

down the road say hey what

3:51

was the name of that refrigerator I was looking

3:53

at four months ago or whatever

3:55

and it'll pop right up. It's kind

3:57

of like Windows search. steroids,

4:00

you know, everything you've ever done. Immediately

4:03

security experts pointed out that it

4:05

is also a very fat and

4:07

juicy target for bad guys. Steve

4:11

Gibson did a whole piece on it last Tuesday on

4:13

security now and the gist

4:15

of it was this database on your

4:17

computer isn't all that well protected and

4:20

so would be accessible to

4:23

anybody who got malware on your

4:25

system. And

4:27

so that's a real concern because as

4:29

we know malware on people's systems especially

4:31

in Windows world is very very common.

4:33

That's all the ransomware you hear about

4:35

all that stuff is is

4:37

you know Trojans malware

4:39

on your system and because

4:42

the database was encrypted Microsoft said

4:44

with BitLocker you would have to

4:46

worry except as soon as you

4:48

log in it unencrypts it. It

4:50

was a SQLite database that was particularly

4:52

easy and so forth. So Microsoft has

4:55

heard all of the howls of

4:57

pain and have made some changes.

5:00

The biggest change is it's opt-in. Okay.

5:03

So what it was before was automatic.

5:05

It was wow. Yeah. It was opt-out.

5:07

And that was one real concern people

5:09

had that because people aren't gonna know

5:11

frankly that's just the way that it

5:13

is. It's the tyranny of the default.

5:15

Yeah it's just people do they don't

5:17

change settings. So that's number one

5:20

and I think that's that's a good one.

5:22

The only people who will have this on

5:24

their systems are people who ask explicitly say

5:26

yeah yeah I want are the fools. Yeah

5:29

I don't know. Would you do this? I don't know. Here's

5:31

the thing. I want

5:34

this feature but I want it more in

5:36

my life than I do on my computer

5:38

per se but I like the

5:41

idea of what this is capable of doing.

5:43

That said it is still

5:45

enough of a privacy concern for me and

5:47

a security concern for me that I don't

5:49

think I would opt into it. Maybe I'd

5:51

opt into it and try it on but

5:53

here's what it would be. It

5:56

would be like using the

5:58

family computer. You use

6:00

the family computer knowing that everybody else has

6:02

access to that computer and will potentially see

6:05

what you've done on that computer. Or using

6:07

a work computer, knowing that work has installed

6:09

a program on it to know what you're

6:11

doing. It changes your behavior. And I think

6:14

if I had recall turned on on my

6:16

Windows machine, it would probably change my

6:18

behavior just because I would know there's

6:20

this eye in the background watching everything

6:22

that you're doing. Even if the eye is

6:25

ostensibly you. Even if I'm the eye,

6:27

it's still like, ah, something's watching me.

6:29

The elf is on the shelf and I

6:31

don't want it there. They also responded

6:34

to this issue of encryption. BitLocker

6:36

or any hard drive encryption

6:38

scheme like

6:42

FileVault on Apple, BitLocker on Windows. When you

6:44

log in, it's unencrypted so you can use

6:46

it. They said, no, no, we're gonna keep

6:48

it encrypted until you verify with Windows hello.

6:52

It will be just in time decryption. So

6:55

that's probably a good thing. Recall

6:57

snapshots says Microsoft will only be

7:00

decrypted and accessible when the user

7:02

authenticates. So as soon as you say, they put

7:04

up a speed bump in. As soon as you

7:06

say, well, hey, what refrigerator did I buy? Look

7:08

at two, four months ago. It'll look at you.

7:10

Windows hello is very fast if you have one

7:13

of these copilot plus PCs because they have the

7:15

camera. So look at you and say, oh yeah,

7:17

that's Leo. It'll also have presence detection. And

7:20

they encrypted the search database. I think this

7:22

answers most of the security

7:25

concerns from people who weren't

7:27

hair on fire. Right, up

7:30

to this point, this was still a

7:32

feature that wasn't available to the masses, right? No, you

7:34

can't buy a PC with it unless you buy one

7:36

of these copilot plus PCs, which don't come out by

7:38

the way till June 18th. So good,

7:41

that means that there's no harm, no

7:43

foul yet. They are kind of, because

7:45

I was almost going to complain a

7:47

little bit about the idea that they

7:49

didn't get it all figured out beforehand,

7:51

but they are. They're figuring it out

7:54

beforehand and that's good. Yeah, I think

7:56

they listened, which is fantastic. It's

7:58

weird that they didn't understand. how people would react

8:00

to this. But anyway,

8:04

they have. And you

8:06

know, honestly, there are other tools that do this. In

8:08

some ways, this is a little bit like

8:11

Apple's Time Machine, right? Yeah, it is taking some shots.

8:13

Which is always recording versions of everything you did. It's

8:16

also like third-party tools. Remember,

8:19

I bought the little rewind pin.

8:21

They call it Limitless now. But

8:24

rewind.ai does the same thing on

8:26

a Macintosh. And

8:28

Microsoft had some weird missing features. For

8:30

instance, if you bought a new PC

8:32

or reset the PC, your entire memory

8:35

recall will be gone. Also,

8:37

it wasn't saved to the cloud. It was just

8:39

local. That was a reasonable security protection. But

8:41

it also meant it didn't persist. So

8:44

given that people get new machines every

8:47

four, five, 10 years, your

8:49

whole database is only from the new machine

8:51

on. So, you

8:54

know, I feel like we're working on

8:56

it, right? Yeah, absolutely. This is an AI

8:58

feature. And I think we all

9:00

recognize that would be really cool to have

9:03

an assistant that knew everything about you. That's

9:05

what we want. Yeah, that context. Because our

9:09

brains are better equipped to

9:11

do processing and

9:14

understanding and problem solving and everything

9:16

like that. And memory is something

9:18

that we've kind of, as humans,

9:20

adapted our brains for. And

9:23

so if we could put some

9:25

of those tasks onto something else, yeah, that

9:27

would be great. Yeah. Anyway,

9:29

I think that most of the fear

9:32

about recall probably has been assuaged by this,

9:34

except for the most, you know,

9:36

there'll be people who will find a way

9:38

to hate this. And already I'm seeing in

9:40

a lot of places, especially Reddit, what

9:43

Linux distro should I switch to? What Mac

9:45

should I buy? You know how people are.

9:48

That's it. I'm done. They

9:51

don't care about me. Google's

9:54

antitrust trial in

9:56

a decision Friday. The Justice

9:59

Department lost a little bit

10:01

of ground, they wanted a jury trial,

10:03

which really, you know a jury is

10:06

never going to find in favor of the tech giant.

10:09

They're going to find in favor of the little

10:11

guy, right? So Google did not want a jury

10:13

trial. They wanted the judge to decide. Well,

10:15

Google was able to convince the judge that

10:19

because they paid back, that

10:21

the whole reason that the Justice Department wanted a

10:23

jury trial is because they said

10:25

that government employees were

10:28

disadvantaged to the tune of about $750,000. They're going

10:30

after Google for

10:34

this ad issue, right? That they both

10:36

sell and buy ads that they, you

10:39

know, they're kind of self-dealing and you

10:41

know, you might think Google is a

10:43

search engine. It's not, it's an ad

10:45

selling platform. And so

10:47

they're going after for that. They

10:51

sought monetary damages to compensate federal

10:53

agencies that had purchased online ads

10:56

saying they were overcharged as a result of

10:58

Google's anti-competitive contact. So what did Google do?

11:00

This is so smart. They wrote them a

11:02

check. They paid them back. In fact,

11:05

they paid them back triple damages because

11:07

that's technically what they could have

11:09

been forced to pay. So

11:11

they paid three times $750,000, a

11:15

little more than $2 million. Interesting. And they're done.

11:18

Two and a half million, whatever it is. So

11:20

they're done. They will get a

11:22

different trial or they won't get a trial.

11:24

They'll get a different trial. Judge Leonie Brinkman

11:26

will be the sole decider instead of a

11:28

jury. But if you're Google, that's a huge

11:30

victory because you never know what

11:32

a jury is going to do. And juries don't

11:34

like big companies. So something that's interesting about that

11:37

and maybe some legal experts or perhaps,

11:39

you know, how often

11:41

does the government sue

11:43

on behalf of the government as opposed to

11:45

suing on behalf of the people? Yeah, that's,

11:48

well, you know, it's interesting. That's a good

11:50

question. I, I

11:52

think that the larger lawsuit

11:54

is about anti-competitive behavior. It's

11:57

antitrust lawsuit, but they were

11:59

going use this fact that

12:01

the government had wasted money as

12:03

a way to force a jury trial. So

12:06

Google did a little jujitsu and said, here's

12:10

the check, and you know what, 2.3

12:13

million dollars and not have to face a jury? Good

12:15

deal for Google. It's a good deal on Google. It's

12:17

a good deal for Google. This

12:20

is a bad deal, and I'm curious what you all

12:22

think about this. One more story, then we'll

12:24

get to our show. This

12:27

is our show. We'll get to our calls. Yeah.

12:30

The state of New York has passed legislation

12:34

that bans addictive social media

12:37

algorithms for kids. It's

12:40

the Stop Addictive Feeds

12:42

Exploitation Act. Ah,

12:45

safe. Safe, yeah, very good. You picked up on that.

12:48

So the Safe Act is now law in

12:50

New York State because the governor, well actually,

12:53

she hasn't yet signed it, but she's expected to sign it. She

12:55

posted on X. You

12:59

said it, you said it. You

13:01

posted on X celebrating the bill's

13:03

passage. So it'll

13:06

prohibit social media platforms like TikTok

13:08

and Instagram from serving content to

13:10

users under the age of 18

13:12

based on recommendation algorithms.

13:17

Instead, they'll have to provide, if you're

13:19

under 18, a reverse chronological feed. Oh,

13:21

can I pretend I'm under 18 so I

13:23

can get the reverse chron feedback? Yeah. On

13:26

the other hand, the reason they do

13:28

that is not because they want to addict kids

13:30

or adults, but because they've

13:33

learned over time, that's a better experience. It's a

13:35

better experience. It's how you get people to go

13:37

back into the app over and over again. Yeah,

13:40

it's not about- Addictive is such a

13:42

bloated word. That word, I have

13:46

trouble with how this is being framed. I

13:51

think that it

13:53

is important to, there

13:57

was an earlier, I think it was done in New York.

14:00

It was an earlier sort

14:03

of action where they declared

14:05

a state of emergency regarding

14:08

social media. Now, on the

14:10

face of it sounds ridiculous, but what it

14:12

did was it freed up funds that they

14:15

could then put towards research. And

14:17

I think that is, I thought that

14:20

was very cool, that there's more research

14:22

being done to understand and to truly

14:25

pay attention to the impact as opposed

14:27

to sort of reactionary measures where we've

14:29

all just kind of gone, Oh, addiction,

14:31

they're addicted, addicted, addiction. Yes,

14:33

yes, yes. And then suddenly you've got these things coming into

14:35

play. Addiction is so loaded,

14:37

right? They

14:40

also had a measure in there that

14:42

said no notifications to children between

14:44

midnight and 6 a.m. and that was taken out. I

14:47

think that's a good one. That was a good one. No

14:49

notifications to kids is fair. I wonder why

14:51

they took it out. They said, Oh, it's an undue hardship for

14:53

us to figure out how to make it happen. And

14:56

I think it might have something to do with this is that it's undoubtedly

14:59

that these social networks will

15:01

sue under First

15:03

Amendment and other things. And they're just trying to

15:05

lessen it. It will probably make it to the

15:07

Supreme Court. So we'll be interested to see. There

15:11

is a trade group that represents all these

15:13

companies called Net Choice. And they

15:15

are right now, they have two, we're waiting to hear

15:18

two big cases in the Supreme

15:20

Court, the Florida and Texas social

15:23

media bills. So that's right

15:25

now in front of the Supreme Court. That decision

15:27

should come out any probably this week. Net

15:32

Choice did get a preliminary injunction. Ohio

15:34

and Arkansas, possibly in California,

15:36

they're awaiting judgment, stopping these social

15:38

because many states have

15:40

now enacted social media limitations or

15:43

restrictions. Evan

15:45

Greer of the nonprofit Digital Rights Advocacy

15:47

Group fight for the future, which is

15:49

not a lobbying arm of

15:51

the big tech companies, did say if you

15:53

can frame something as being about protecting kids,

15:55

it automatically has more political weight behind. Well,

15:57

of course it does. That makes

15:59

sense. So we'll watch that

16:01

with interest. I don't, yeah, I

16:04

don't know. I think the non chronological feed is

16:06

okay. These companies don't want it. No. Because

16:08

they don't make as much money. But should they be

16:10

making money off of kids that are 18?

16:13

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose,

16:15

okay, that's a really good point. And

16:17

I think that on the face of it,

16:20

that is a reasonable

16:22

change. I think it's what

16:25

it suggests overall about

16:28

how there's just this, we've got

16:30

to protect the kids from

16:32

this new thing. And you've

16:34

talked about it before, that it's just the

16:36

latest wave of books and then rock music.

16:38

Yeah, moral panic is the phrase Jeff Jarvis.

16:40

Video games and everything else. And I don't

16:42

know. One more, I

16:44

said this was a lesson, but I have to do

16:46

this one. And this is a public service announcement. Yes.

16:49

If your iPhone gets stolen, as

16:52

you know, Apple, and I think this might

16:54

be true of some Android phones, but I'm

16:56

more familiar with the Apple thing. They have

16:58

something called activation lock, where unless you release

17:01

your Apple device in Find My, you have

17:03

to take it out, remove it,

17:05

log in to your account and remove it.

17:09

Somebody can't use it. So before

17:11

you sell it or give it away, you're supposed

17:13

to. Now, the reason this is in there is

17:15

because if it gets stolen, you

17:17

do not want to do that, right? If

17:19

it gets stolen, do not remove it from

17:22

Find My. Because the bad guys can

17:24

never use your phone. Now, this

17:26

is led, and

17:28

I've seen this over and over again on Reddit and

17:30

other places, to a series

17:32

of escalating text messages

17:34

from the bad guys who stole your

17:36

phone. Generally what happens, they steal it

17:38

in the US, ship it to China,

17:40

where somebody's trying to unlock it. They

17:42

cannot, they'll even take it apart, but

17:45

Apple's started putting activation locks on the

17:47

parts as well. So they really is

17:49

of much less value to them, unless

17:51

they can convince you to

17:53

remove your phone from Find My. And

17:55

this is a piece in The Gothamists. Things

17:57

the guys who stole my phone texted me.

18:00

me to try to get me

18:02

to unlock it. And it started very,

18:04

uh, innocuously. Yo, I bought

18:06

an iPhone for I'm 14. I'm using

18:08

it. It has, it have

18:10

your messages, emails, cards, banks, notes, and

18:12

personal information on it. Even your SIM

18:14

number that you transferred, I get your

18:16

calls. It was not erased. Did

18:19

you make an insurance claim? So,

18:21

so another Gothamist is smart enough to say, Oh,

18:23

you bought my stolen phone. Ha ha. Good luck. He's

18:26

not going to release it. Now

18:28

they they're going to slowly try to scare

18:31

him into releasing it. So, and

18:33

I have to warn you, this gets pretty, uh, vivid.

18:35

Um, so

18:38

the next one came from Apple,

18:41

Apple store pay, Apple store pay.

18:43

Your iPhone 14 pro is

18:45

trying to pay with Apple pay in USA.

18:48

No period to ensure the

18:50

safety of your accounts period. Please

18:52

use the find my app, all

18:55

caps, to remove your Apple ID and cancer

18:57

payment method as soon as possible. No period.

18:59

This will unbind your Apple ID from another

19:01

device. Apple support. Nope. Not

19:05

gonna do it. He

19:07

did do the fine mind and, and,

19:10

and noticed that it was at

19:12

this point in Queens. Okay.

19:14

I will say by the way that the author

19:17

of the pieces name is Veronica de Susan. Oh,

19:19

I should, I shouldn't say he, I should

19:21

say Veronica. Sorry, Veronica. Yeah.

19:24

Let's give, I like to give credit to the

19:26

authors. So then

19:28

it goes to China where this message

19:30

appears. Your old iPhone 14 pro is

19:33

recycled by us. We're just recycling. We're

19:36

not the ones who steal your phone. If you do

19:38

not remove it, your old phone, be sold to other

19:40

customers. Maybe they'll hack your phone or steal your credit

19:42

card or contact your family. So we recommend you to

19:44

remove it as soon as possible. We

19:46

cooperate with AT&T T-Mobile Verizon, Amazon and

19:49

other companies in the business of second

19:51

hand mobile phones. We will not steal

19:53

your personal information, but our customers come

19:55

from all over the world and they

19:57

will buy these second hand phones. If.

19:59

you to not remove it therefore open

20:01

the find my app all caps

20:03

I don't know why maybe even

20:06

the same person so that we can restore the factory settings

20:08

or move your personal data if you don't remove it our

20:10

company will not be responsible for any loss

20:12

cost you hope you can understand thank you

20:17

so she then says okay I just removed it let

20:19

me know if that worked thanks for recycling my phone

20:21

even send him an emoji with hearts nice

20:24

job Veronica to

20:26

which the erase request you made didn't work

20:28

it was connected on Wi-Fi in China then

20:30

got jailbreak and still saying pending it won't

20:32

erase remotely I'm telling you this because your

20:34

phone is gonna be auction on the black

20:36

market with your personal information everything about you

20:38

by the way this is not true really

20:40

important for you the reason I mentioned this

20:43

it's encrypted they cannot exactly unless they

20:45

guess your pin but this

20:47

is why you should at least have six digits and turn

20:49

on that thing that says ten bad guesses erased

20:52

so this is all turrets erased it the

20:55

activation lock is still there yeah they still

20:57

can't sell it so you could

20:59

erase it because you have the button to erase it so

21:02

they're saying oh no it's got your personal

21:04

information including phone number address everything will be

21:06

cloned that's why I'm telling you to so

21:08

you can remove it from your devices and

21:11

I will factory reset it manually remove the

21:13

number she said she

21:15

got this one May 14th from the Filipino

21:17

number which it previously claimed to be some

21:19

guy who'd accidentally bought my phone they didn't

21:21

even change the phone number Wow now

21:24

your old phone has been disassembled the camera and

21:27

LCD have been sold the motherboard has been jailbroken you

21:29

do not want to take it back because it

21:31

does not belong to the law of the United

21:33

States your Apple ID

21:35

is still bound on it it has opened

21:37

Apple Pay and wait for the information of

21:39

the bank bill after a month this number

21:41

is a one-off you will never be able

21:44

to reach me those exclamations the

21:46

erase request you made didn't work it was connected

21:48

on Wi-Fi in China they got jailbreak it's still

21:50

saying pending it won't erase remotely I'm telling you

21:52

this because the phone's gonna be auction on the

21:54

black market with your personal information remove it

21:57

and I will remove it This

22:01

is where things started

22:03

escalating says Veronica de Sousa at

22:05

the Gothamist Most

22:08

of the messages by the way are identical

22:10

the ones you see on reddit. She calls

22:12

it scammer copy pasta Oh interesting. Yeah copy

22:14

and paste they just said cuz they don't

22:16

even speak English in many cases So they

22:18

just oh wow text they all use the

22:20

same text here. Now. The phone is in

22:22

China yikes In

22:25

Shenzhen where the phone was made is back

22:27

home. Oh to where it belongs So,

22:30

you know she could still see that right My

22:34

phone took a little trip 8,049 miles Now

22:39

oh boy cover your eyes

22:41

children. Yeah, so now they're getting really upset

22:44

Listen, I'm gonna harass wreck

22:46

and ruin your sad stupid low

22:49

pathetic life. It is not removed

22:51

you mindless peasant You're

22:53

gonna be destroyed. I've killed or

22:56

far less than a blank phone

22:58

before it We will see

23:00

if your view value your life or the response,

23:02

so, you know how I'm presuming

23:04

this is a profanity Serious,

23:06

this is I know who

23:08

you are and where you live and your whole

23:10

family will get slaughtered Oh my I'm gonna beat

23:13

and you horribly you effing piece

23:15

of absolute garbage waste of air

23:17

waste of skin you and your

23:19

family I'm I'm gonna murder

23:21

y'all watch me. Oh and the police they

23:23

cannot help you They'll only

23:25

take your statement and this number is

23:28

a burner your best option is to remove

23:30

it now I'm angry now don't mess with me

23:32

And if you don't do what I

23:34

say you are going to I'm gonna come

23:36

to your house on Monday night Good god, and I'm gonna

23:38

kill your whole family. I already told you what you do.

23:40

And if you don't get it removed by the end of

23:43

day Miami Miami

23:45

Miami gonna be looking for you

23:47

and your family and blame

23:49

me for not warning you I

23:52

don't know who Miami is. Whoo. Maybe

23:54

Miami's a gangster. Wait Chris from Miami

23:57

Maybe it's Christopher Miami. He's had a lot of calls

24:00

He's very agro. And he's coming for your

24:02

phone. She said this is the last one.

24:04

Now the key here is if your phone

24:06

is stolen you will get these messages or

24:08

may well get these messages. And

24:10

they are scary. They are terrifying. They're a lot like,

24:12

we've talked about it before, the extortion email where they

24:15

say I know what you're doing. I've got videos of

24:17

you and I'm going to give it to your whole

24:19

family. These are BS. Ignore

24:22

them. Do not release that phone because

24:25

eventually just going to throw it in the Yanksie

24:27

and that will be that because they can't do

24:29

anything with it. Do not fall for it. By

24:33

the way, they also sent two videos. One

24:36

showed a hacker breaking into someone's iPhone and

24:38

going through their camera roll. Another

24:40

appeared to be a screen recording of a social

24:43

video of a man showing off his gun. Veronica

24:46

writes, I guess this is supposed to be the guy

24:48

named Miami who's going to come kill me

24:50

and my whole family on Monday. I

24:52

haven't heard from them since. Thank you

24:54

Veronica. I'm so glad you're okay Veronica.

24:56

So glad you're okay. She's at WNYC

24:58

and the Gothamist and it's

25:01

good that she shared it and that's why I wanted to

25:03

re-share it. Yes, indeed. So that you know

25:05

this happens. It's meaningless. It's

25:07

just the more they threaten, the

25:10

more likely you'll cave. Ridiculous.

25:13

Ridiculous. It's very ridiculous. Ridiculous.

25:16

Upsetting. All right. I'm

25:18

going to take a little break, a little

25:20

pause and the pause that refreshes and then

25:23

we will get to your calls. So if

25:25

you will, Anthony Nielsen filling in for our

25:28

boy genius producer. He's

25:30

not here. He's not here. Johnny,

25:34

is he on vacation? Is he doing something?

25:37

Yeah, I don't know. He just took a

25:39

day off. Just took a day off. He's

25:41

allowed. John Ashley will be back

25:43

someday but the esteemed AI guru Anthony Nielsen

25:46

is filling in. Our show today

25:48

brought to you by Fast Mail. How

25:50

many? Okay.

25:52

Yesterday. This is very hard in my house. Lisa

25:55

starts complaining. She said

25:57

all of these mails, email.

25:59

emails from clients that I didn't get.

26:02

Apparently they've gone into spam and all the mails I

26:04

sent to them, they didn't get. It's

26:07

driving me crazy. And I said, honey, if

26:10

you value email, why

26:13

are you using free email? She's

26:16

using Gmail. I said,

26:18

I stopped using Gmail 10 years ago. She

26:20

said, what do you use? I said, you know

26:22

who I use? Fastmail. You

26:24

should be doing fastmail. She said, I don't

26:27

wanna move. I said, it's easy. You

26:30

can move everything over all your folders,

26:32

everything, move it over to fastmail, and

26:35

then your email will be better.

26:37

Fastmail is an independent employee owned

26:39

email provider for over 20 years.

26:42

I've been with them for more than 10. I

26:45

left Google 10 years ago because I

26:47

finally got tired of no support. That

26:50

stopped the, anti-spam stopped working very well.

26:52

It's the main reason I was on

26:54

Gmail. I got

26:56

tired of giving Google nothing except

26:59

my hard earned attention.

27:03

So I got a private inbox

27:06

with fastmail and I've

27:08

never turned back. It's not just my email, by

27:10

the way. I also stopped using Google Calendar. I

27:12

use Fastmail Calendar just like Google Calendar, syncs to

27:15

your phone, your Android or iOS

27:17

device. I also

27:19

use Fastmail's contacts. In

27:21

fact, there's a real advantage to doing that

27:24

because anytime I want fastmail not to throw

27:26

stuff into spam, I add them to my

27:28

contacts. And I have fastmail filters move anybody

27:30

I know into the important folder. I never

27:33

miss email. Plus, fastmail's set up

27:35

so your email goes through to everywhere.

27:37

Even the most finicky email

27:39

companies, Google's one of them because

27:41

they support all of the email

27:43

authentication protocols, DMARC, SPF,

27:46

DKIM. In fact, it's great because

27:48

I use Fastmail with my domains as well.

27:51

They don't host the website, they just host the mail

27:55

but it's automatically set up to use all that authentication. So

27:57

when I send from a custom domain. Fastmail

28:00

even sells domain, so if you want

28:02

to have a really professional email, not

28:05

one that says@hotmail.com or aol.com

28:08

or gmail.com, Fastmail.

28:10

Fastmail is a premium inbox experience

28:12

that puts your privacy first. Instead

28:14

of ads and creepy data sharing,

28:17

you get a clean interface with

28:19

innovative features that value your time.

28:21

They use open source software, they

28:23

contribute back, they drive the development

28:25

of open standards, they collaborate with

28:27

other services to improve email contacts

28:29

and calendars for everybody. They're the

28:31

good guys in this business. You

28:34

pay for free email with your privacy. For

28:37

as little as $5 a month, you can get a

28:39

private inbox with Fastmail. And by

28:41

the way, that's in more than 20 global currencies.

28:43

This is worldwide. Their new multi-user

28:45

plans make Fastmail even more affordable for

28:47

your household and business. Maybe

28:50

I can get Lisa to go on the

28:52

household account, how about that? There's a duo plan

28:54

which gives secure private email to you and a

28:56

partner at a reduced price. Their family

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plan, up to six people, upgrade the whole

29:01

family. And the business plan gives you powerful

29:03

admin controls for the security and management of

29:05

your company. Fastmail, you

29:08

can even send and receive emails from

29:10

your own domain, manage multiple email addresses

29:12

in one space. I have literally an

29:14

unlimited number of email addresses. It's

29:17

very easy, Lisa, to download your data

29:19

and import it into your Fastmail inbox.

29:22

No need to leave important info behind when

29:24

you switch. I think arguably they've got a

29:26

much better web interface, but you can use it

29:28

with any email client. And I

29:30

use their iOS and Android clients. I think

29:32

they're really, really good. Fastmail also

29:34

works, you'll be happy to know, with password

29:37

managers like 1Password or our

29:39

sponsor, Bitwarden. So they generate unique

29:41

logins at the same time as

29:43

they generate unique passwords for every

29:46

account. It all goes in your

29:48

Fastmail inbox, but the email address

29:50

is unique to that account. I can go on

29:52

and on. You know I love Fastmail. I've

29:55

been telling you for years, if email is important

29:57

to you, don't go with the.

30:00

service, spend a little money

30:02

to get the best FastMail. FastMail,

30:05

advancing open standards, leading industry

30:07

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30:09

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30:25

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30:28

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30:30

the smart monies on FastMail. It really is the right

30:32

way to go. Okay, Anthony

30:37

Nielsen. Yes, what

30:39

should we do? How about a voicemail?

30:42

A voicemail. Let's hear a voicemail. Hi

30:45

Leo, my name is Joe. I'm

30:48

calling from San Jose, Costa

30:50

Rica. I have a DJI,

30:52

I fly DJI drones.

30:54

I have, I just

30:56

tried to use the

30:58

SD card from a DJI Mini

31:01

4 Pro in Windows

31:05

and to open it and I cannot

31:07

do it. I tried different card readers.

31:09

I can't format it. I

31:11

tried this part. I just, it will

31:13

not open. I can see it, but

31:15

I can't open it. So

31:18

I put it back in the DJI controller,

31:20

which is an RC2 controller and

31:23

it formats it instantly. So I know it's

31:25

not the card. So anyway,

31:27

that's very frustrating. If

31:29

you can answer that for me, it

31:31

would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very

31:34

much. Hey, it's really nice to

31:36

hear from Costa Rica. I was thinking it was

31:38

just that switch on the side was turned on,

31:40

you know, that little lock switch on SD card.

31:42

Oh. But the fact that you're able to put

31:44

it into the DJI and have it get formatted

31:46

again suggests that that little switch thing is not

31:48

turned on. What you described Joe, I have done.

31:50

I have a

31:52

DJI Mini. Takes a Mini

31:55

Micro SD, put it in there, go flying

31:57

around, bug the

31:59

neighbors. If

34:00

I were a drone maker, I would

34:03

use FAT either 16 or 32. 16,

34:07

you have limitations in the file size, so maybe 32. Just

34:10

so it could be read on Macs and PCs. I

34:13

would always try on another computer

34:15

with another reader, with another adapter, that kind

34:17

of thing. But honestly,

34:19

if you can't read it, even

34:22

if it's formatted in the DJI, remember

34:24

they're not testing every sector, it could

34:26

still be bad, right? The

34:28

FAT may be the only thing that it can write to, in

34:31

which case you wouldn't be able to get any files off of it. So I

34:34

would toss it. I think that's- If there's something

34:36

on it, you need RECOVA or the like, but

34:38

I would toss it. Why take a chance, you

34:40

know? By the

34:42

way, retcon5 in our Discord says, he

34:45

used RECOVA and saved 2,000

34:47

photos from a card. So

34:53

wow, wow, that's good. Now

34:56

this was before, I think they were open source

34:59

and got bought, I think, by

35:01

a C-cleaner. Oh,

35:04

at least it's by C-cleaner. I haven't tried it

35:06

since C-cleaner. Yeah, C-cleaner's a good company. So-

35:10

I'm still in my shaky phase because of

35:12

Mac Bartender. So I'm like, oh, I got

35:14

bought. We should mention that, by the way.

35:17

That is, if you use Bartender, which I

35:19

used to, I don't anymore, but if you

35:21

use Bartender, the company got bought and the

35:23

new company's not being very forthcoming. Yes, so

35:26

first and foremost, I went around and installed

35:28

it on my machines. Mac

35:30

Bartender, I actually have an episode of

35:32

Hands on Mac about it, but essentially

35:34

what happened was, yes, the company got

35:36

bought and when they bought it, the

35:40

new company tried to change

35:42

some of the certificates, but they

35:44

released an update to the app

35:47

without telling anyone. And-

35:49

That's really bad. And they didn't, the

35:51

person who had made, originally, Sartis Studio,

35:54

made the app and the new company

35:56

that bought it both had, did not

35:58

say ahead of time that it- Hey,

40:00

welcome back by the way Last

40:02

week we had a wonderful guest with

40:05

us there and now you're with us back with

40:07

us again So thank you so much. Yeah, I

40:09

sent you some messages and hope that you're feeling

40:11

well, so thank you I appreciate the well wishes.

40:13

That's very kind. It always pains us when you're

40:15

not with us because Leo falls apart I

40:17

do I really do it's funny. You wouldn't know I did

40:19

this by myself for 20, right? It's like True

40:23

what's happening? Who am I? Where am I? Why

40:25

am I here? What can we do for you

40:27

Chris? Well, I wanted to

40:29

thank Alex Lindsay because he's always he's always wonderful I

40:31

watch a lot of him on his so yeah, he

40:34

was very very good in it We very rarely get

40:36

him I won't keep you very long

40:38

because I know that we want to get a lot of the new people

40:40

in here That are probably hanging out in zoom right

40:42

now, but The new iPads

40:44

are here and I'm definitely gonna go

40:46

with the because I have the 11 inch from a

40:48

few years ago I want to get the 13 But

40:52

I don't think that that new finish that

40:54

they have on the iPad My sergeant was

40:56

like don't even go there because you can

40:58

get and put that on the new iPad

41:00

So I was thinking about the one terabyte

41:03

model Which looks really really good because I

41:05

need more real estate and the 11 inch

41:07

is good I like the new one, but

41:09

I like the idea of 13 inches I

41:11

want that larger format for like my beat

41:13

my meetings and so on so forth But

41:15

I was thinking about one terabyte because that's

41:17

gonna have that new product You know and

41:20

you know the main reason for

41:22

getting a terabyte right Micah Yes, that's

41:24

because you were going to get the

41:26

best performance possible. That's so thin it

41:28

disappears 16 gigs of

41:30

rain in front of you Liao. Boom. It's

41:32

gone. There it is. Where did it go?

41:34

Yeah, so thin where'd it go? Love these

41:36

more's obviously more storage space for some people.

41:38

That's that's plenty, but you get more Ram

41:41

you get double the romance. Yes And

41:46

so that's all the course Yes,

41:48

and you get all the cores. It's not a

41:50

bin to chip, right? Is there it

41:52

was to deal with the cores though? I mean,

41:54

I know you're getting you're getting all four of

41:56

them, but I mean what is their honestly difference

41:58

so John yeah John, you bought the 512, and

42:02

John was all upset, Jammer

42:05

B, our studio manager, that he got

42:07

the 512 and was gonna

42:09

turn this in and say, I

42:11

want the terabyte. And then everybody

42:13

said, John, you're not gonna notice a

42:15

difference. Because the iPad is

42:17

already way faster than anything you would ever

42:19

do with it. So John, you did not

42:22

trade it. So this is the 512 with

42:24

a binned chip. It's

42:26

got one less performance core.

42:30

What do you think, John? Do you notice the difference? No.

42:34

No. No. So saves you money

42:36

unless you need the storage. It's

42:38

really more of a mental thing,

42:40

right? Because you and I, we

42:43

didn't want to have the lesser

42:45

iPad. Yeah, I have

42:47

the 512. Oh, you did?

42:49

Yeah, I have the 512 gigabytes 11 inch iPad Pro.

42:53

He's being careful with my money. Exactly.

42:56

As well as the fact that, no, at the

42:58

time that I purchased it, I

43:00

didn't know there was a difference because I wanted to

43:02

get it as quick as possible so we could do

43:04

the review, right? But after

43:06

hearing that there was a difference, I

43:08

considered turning it in for the one

43:10

terabyte. And then I myself

43:13

used it. And in my review,

43:15

by the way, everyone should go watch that iPad Pro

43:17

review. We'd love it if you did. Twitter.tv

43:20

slash H-O-T. I

43:22

talk about, thank you. Do you address this

43:24

in the review? Exactly, and I talk about how- Bit

43:26

of a fan, you know, just saying. Thank you. I

43:29

talk about how there's, I have not, I

43:31

could not run up against any issues with

43:33

it. And the fact is, even

43:35

in the before times, when the iPad Pro

43:37

had an M1 chip in it, I

43:40

would sometimes, while I still had

43:42

an Intel Mac, would sometimes use

43:44

the iPad to export video instead

43:47

of using the Mac to do it

43:49

because the iPad was faster. So now

43:51

we're seeing this huge performance improvement, regardless

43:54

of whether you get the binned chip

43:56

or the full power chip. I just

43:58

don't see people running up against- the

44:01

extent of the system unless

44:03

they are doing the absolute most they

44:05

could possibly do and that's just not

44:08

most people most people are not ever

44:10

going to see it run up

44:12

against the the edges

44:14

of the system maybe that will

44:16

change when WWDC rolls around

44:18

but I still and Leo's shaking his head

44:21

no no no you could probably hear it

44:23

rattling it's

44:26

not changing so you know I but

44:28

the only reason I say that is for the last four

44:30

or five models of iPad I've always said oh you

44:33

know this is some day is gonna live up to

44:35

it and it and it never does so I wouldn't

44:37

count on it's like gaming on the map. I was

44:39

also thinking about down the line too I mean you

44:41

know you get the M4 which I guess is called

44:44

the bin chip I guess that would be the technical

44:46

term you just use Micah for the small yeah if

44:48

you get 256 or 512 VM so

44:51

if I get the one terabyte which includes

44:53

that new M4 chip because I have the

44:56

M1 now what's the point I mean if

44:58

I plan I'm planning for the future so

45:00

I don't know if they're gonna be coming

45:02

out with why am I seeing myself again

45:05

okay it's because we love to look at

45:07

you we're switching between them but I'd rather

45:09

look at you I love myself yeah is

45:11

I'm trying to think down the road a

45:14

couple of years because I don't know when

45:16

they're gonna come out with another iPad so

45:18

I might with the one terabyte I might

45:20

want to add a lot on there here's

45:23

the biggest difference between your M1 and the

45:25

new M4 is the screen the OLED screen

45:27

oh my god is noticeably beautiful okay unfortunately

45:31

it's not showing well because it's so bright

45:35

so much brighter than our camera I mean

45:37

honestly I forget sometimes and I pull open

45:39

that iPad and I've just been on my

45:41

Mac or I've been looking at something else

45:43

and I go I just want to do

45:45

everything I wish this 11 inch

45:47

screen is 15 inches it's just gorgeous yeah I

45:49

just turned it down so look

45:51

how beautiful I love those socks by the way Leo

45:54

those are really cool well you know it's pride months

45:56

and I am very proud that my mother made me

45:58

these rainbow socks so I

54:00

was talking about the thing on that side, which

54:02

is I think you and your sound card. Let's

54:04

see the picture again, because I think that's you

54:06

in a few years ago. And

54:08

there's more than a few. Yeah,

54:11

V hasn't been on it. I loved V though. What a

54:13

great series that was. And

54:15

there you are doing the sound recording for

54:17

dialogue, right? Yeah. Although

54:20

actually that isn't on

54:22

V. That's on the V set. This

54:25

was from one of the five De Palma movies

54:27

I did, Body Double.

54:30

And we ran out of stage space. So

54:32

we did all of our smaller sets

54:35

on the old hangar deck from V.

54:37

Wow. I love Body Double. I was

54:39

really mad. I bought it from Apple and

54:41

they cut out one of the best scenes

54:44

in that movie because it was too adult.

54:47

Oh, yes. And so I have the

54:50

censored version of... Puritanical

54:52

version. My favorite Brian De Palma

54:54

films. It's a great movie. Yeah.

54:57

Love Body Double. Very nice. I

54:59

started with him on Phantom of the Paradise.

55:01

Oh my. Then I

55:04

did Blow Out. Then Body Double. Blow Out,

55:06

another great movie. Then Untouchables

55:09

and wound up with Bonfire the

55:11

Vanity. Were you on the Untouchables

55:13

set when they did the scene

55:15

with the baby carriage going down

55:17

the stairs? Oh yes. Yes. Holy

55:20

cow. Yes. And for

55:22

people who don't remember this, watch the movie again. But

55:25

there is a shootout. What is it? A

55:28

post office? I can't remember. A government building of

55:30

some kind. There's a shootout. And of course, a

55:32

lot of civilians. There's a sailor diving out of

55:34

the way. And through

55:36

the whole shootout, you've got Elliot

55:38

Ness played by... Costner?

55:46

Is it Costner? Yes. Kevin Costner.

55:48

Kevin Costner. Elliot Ness. Yeah.

55:53

And the baby carriage gets loose and

55:56

starts going down the stairs. Dodging

55:59

the bullets. As it's going down the stairs, I

56:01

won't tell you how it ends, but it ends

56:03

happily. Let's put it that way So yeah, you

56:05

know yeah, but that must have been an amazing

56:09

How many takes did they have to do for that

56:11

not many, but it's the

56:14

rehearsal Shots

56:17

we rehearse for an entire

56:19

day and don't shoot anything

56:21

wow because he likes like

56:23

his opening stuff he

56:25

has these amazing things and in

56:29

fact It's

56:31

at the beginning of blowout. We

56:34

originally had a 20 minute single

56:37

take of The weirdo looking through the

56:39

windows in the girls door right, but

56:42

it was considered too slow So they

56:44

had to cut it up to speed

56:46

it up now the camera

56:48

magazine only holds 11 minutes of film

56:51

So we had to cheat he

56:53

looks through the window He sees a security

56:55

guard so he ducks down and his POV

56:57

goes in the blackness Is

57:04

this all in the book a Lot

57:07

of it is yes, I don't care about changing attire. I

57:09

know how to do that Yeah, but

57:12

I want to hear these anecdotes from

57:14

the brand well I'll tell you before

57:16

I got started on that book. I

57:18

was writing secrets of

57:20

a Hollywood voy

57:23

ear Because

57:25

you Got

57:27

a thousand pages of that Sadly

57:30

my mentor who was 10 years older than I

57:33

developed Deterioration of

57:35

his memory, and I'd mentioned a show he worked

57:37

on he had no memory of it at all

57:40

So I thought I'd better write down everything Yeah,

57:43

yeah, and your I get so good.

57:46

Yeah after yes after I get my textbook

57:48

out I'll finish that one you know it's

57:50

fun about blowout. It's about a sound guy

57:52

isn't it isn't it? Yeah, yes,

57:54

he was and I was

57:56

also the technical advisor on that nice

58:00

But I took my name off because

58:02

every time Brian would ask how something's done

58:04

and I tell him to say, well, that's

58:06

not exciting. That's not visual. You know, that's,

58:09

this is moving style. This isn't real. Right.

58:11

So Travolta is out recording wind sound

58:14

effects with no windscreen on the plane.

58:18

That's no, that's fine. I will not put my name

58:20

on that. I

58:22

would love to hear the stories on this. This

58:24

is so great. Wow. He

58:26

hears, he hears an assassination

58:28

attempt in his recording. Yeah.

58:31

And there was a guy who had shot a

58:33

bunch of still frames.

58:36

So he made a movie out of it and sunk

58:38

it up and saw the flash in the bushes. This

58:41

is based on a great Antonioni movie

58:43

called one of my favorite movies called

58:45

blow up. Yes.

58:47

A photographer accidentally witnesses a murder or

58:49

thinks he was witnessing a murder. Yeah.

58:52

Same idea, but sound instead of pictures. How fun is

58:54

that? Well, anyway, we got it. We almost out of

58:57

time because Sam's coming up. So what can we do

58:59

for you to make it quick? Yeah. I

59:01

had a problem with my manuscript freezing the

59:03

computer. I remember that I had a

59:05

cuss, had a custom made computer and

59:08

now the task manager when it freezes shows only

59:10

20% CPU and even less RAM. So

59:16

the the 11th generation

59:18

ship I have has four, four cores

59:20

and eight threads. It is likely

59:22

to work a lot better if I buy one of the new

59:24

ones with 20 cores. No, this

59:26

is not a problem of hardware. Unfortunately it's

59:28

a problem of software. It's Microsoft word. Yeah.

59:32

And I haven't found anything. I know we've talked

59:34

about this before. Yeah. The manuscript

59:37

in all 1800 pages. How

59:39

many pages is it now? Over 2000 now.

59:41

Okay. All of these pages are in

59:44

one file and word. It's

59:46

not the, you could throw all the hardware you want

59:48

at it. It's not going to solve the problem. It

59:51

is the problem. It's not designed. You got to

59:53

divide. You got to chapter it up. I'm

59:56

sorry to say if you're going to

59:58

use four volumes. I'm gonna have to

1:00:01

break it up even more. It just means can't

1:00:03

do global searches. I know it's

1:00:05

terrible That's why we recommended Scrivner and

1:00:07

some other tools, but you really tried.

1:00:09

Yeah, I tried them. They they can't

1:00:11

handle it either Yeah, yeah

1:00:15

Maybe one last question Yeah,

1:00:17

one last question. Yes, I'm gonna get rid of

1:00:19

the owner and get my name back there I

1:00:22

don't know why so typically what you're gonna do

1:00:24

is you're gonna put your cursor over the top

1:00:26

of your video and In the

1:00:28

bottom right hand corner, I believe it is

1:00:30

you'll see three dots Yeah,

1:00:33

click on that and I think there's one

1:00:35

that says change name or rename Okay,

1:00:38

and then you just put your name. Alrighty.

1:00:40

I got it. Thank you so much Jim

1:00:43

I'd stay in touch. I can't yeah,

1:00:46

I want to hear the book. I want to hear all

1:00:48

these stories I do know how to change a tire But

1:00:50

I bet there's some stuff in there that you'll be able

1:00:52

to teach me Put a link in the show notes to

1:00:54

a page from scooter X of

1:00:56

the best book writing software

1:00:59

For writers, I'm sorry to say Scrivner is

1:01:01

number one on this list, but maybe there's

1:01:03

some other things Maybe

1:01:08

there's some other things that might work as well.

1:01:10

I'm not sure I trust this list because the

1:01:13

number four is Microsoft Excel

1:01:16

Excuse or Google sheets for

1:01:19

a book a spreadsheet program really but

1:01:21

there are some Dedicated programs.

1:01:23

Yeah. No. No, I will definitely

1:01:25

check them out. And of

1:01:27

course and I joined your club to That

1:01:31

way. Yeah, oh, please stay in touch Jim.

1:01:33

Thank you. Oh, no, I will I and

1:01:35

finish the GD book Will you yeah,

1:01:38

you got people dying to read it. I

1:01:40

gotta read it I know but as I

1:01:42

say I was at cine gear Expo and

1:01:44

I found four things that I have to

1:01:46

include I love it. Not just the electric

1:01:48

wheels I also love books gonna take you

1:01:50

a year love it that a sound guy

1:01:52

This is what happens with tech people we

1:01:54

get to techie and that your your tip

1:01:56

ring sleeve plug was failing. Yeah

1:02:00

or it's not failing, it was doing its job. The laptop

1:02:02

failed because it thought you had a mic. Yeah,

1:02:04

but it's great that you found it. I just

1:02:06

love it. The sound guy had trouble. Just

1:02:09

shows you we do so much stuff

1:02:11

that more things can go wrong. Jim,

1:02:13

hey, the computer's smarter than I am.

1:02:15

No, it's not. I promise you. It's

1:02:17

just a box of animated rocks. Jim,

1:02:20

peace out. Great to talk to you. Thanks so

1:02:22

much. Take care. Love that guy.

1:02:25

Me too. Doesn't that book sound amazing? Yes, I

1:02:27

can't wait. I can't wait. The stories

1:02:29

of a sound man. Now it

1:02:31

is time to take a little break, a little

1:02:34

pause, and then Sam will say that

1:02:36

our car guy is coming up to

1:02:38

talk automobiles. You're watching Ask the

1:02:40

Tech Guys with Micah Sargent and

1:02:43

Leo Laporte. All

1:02:47

you want is to meet your

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and your IT resources remain limited.

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1:03:46

people just know the best rate for you

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is a rate based on you with Allstate.

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Insurance Company in affiliates Northbrook, Illinois. Sam

1:04:15

Abul- Sam, oh, I saw him, I

1:04:18

saw him, he peeked through. Sam Abul-Samad is

1:04:20

here, he's principal researcher at Guidehouse Insights.

1:04:23

He is the host of the Wheelbarings podcast

1:04:26

with Robbie and Nicole and he is our

1:04:28

regular expert on automotive

1:04:30

technology. Hi Sam. Robbie- Hello.

1:04:33

Sam- Hello Leo, hello Micah. Robbie- Hello

1:04:36

Sam, welcome, good to see you. What

1:04:38

is that Raspberry Pi looking device over

1:04:40

your right shoulder there? Sam- Oh that's

1:04:43

only just slightly more powerful than a

1:04:45

Raspberry Pi. Just

1:04:48

barely, not much but you know it's a little more

1:04:50

powerful. Robbie- It's got a lot of ports there on

1:04:52

the side it seems. Sam- Yeah, well over the last

1:04:54

couple of weeks you guys have been talking on the

1:04:57

various shows a lot about how

1:04:59

many tops, you know, the

1:05:02

Snapdragon X and the

1:05:05

Apple M4s and all these

1:05:07

things are producing. And so

1:05:09

I just thought I'd throw the automotive version

1:05:11

of that into the mix here. Robbie-

1:05:13

So tops we should explain is the

1:05:16

metric people use for AI engines and

1:05:18

it stands for trillion operations per second. I

1:05:20

don't know how good or bad it is

1:05:22

but it's what everybody uses. Apple's

1:05:25

M4 iPad has 38 tops, the new

1:05:28

CoPilot Plus PCs run the Snapdragon Elite

1:05:30

X which goes to 48 tops. So

1:05:34

that's the ballpark. How many

1:05:36

tops for that thing? Sam-

1:05:39

So that board that's over my

1:05:41

shoulder there is an Nvidia Drive

1:05:44

Oren development board that

1:05:47

has two Oren chips on there.

1:05:50

The Oren is the

1:05:53

current production generation

1:05:55

of Nvidia's top

1:05:57

chip for doing ADAS

1:05:59

systems. driver systems. Each

1:06:01

one of those does 250 tops. Oh,

1:06:05

so there's 500. Yeah.

1:06:07

That's a little bit faster. Just,

1:06:10

just a wee bit faster. Why does a

1:06:12

car need so many tops? Well,

1:06:15

if you're going to do automated driving, there's

1:06:18

a lot of processing that goes on. I mean,

1:06:20

you know, cause you're, you're

1:06:22

potentially, for example, if you're talking about

1:06:24

a robotaxi type of

1:06:26

vehicle, you've typically

1:06:29

got somewhere

1:06:31

between 12 and 20 cameras around

1:06:33

the vehicle. In

1:06:35

most cases on those types of vehicles,

1:06:37

you're looking at, you know, usually eight

1:06:39

megapixel cameras. So you've

1:06:41

got a lot of pixels

1:06:43

to process. Plus you might

1:06:45

have anywhere from three to

1:06:48

five Lidar sensors, maybe

1:06:50

10 or so, 10 to 12 radar sensors, all

1:06:52

of which have to be processed

1:06:56

in real time. And,

1:06:58

you know, so you can't just sit around

1:07:00

and wait for all of this stuff to

1:07:02

happen. Like you can, you know,

1:07:05

if you're, if you're putting a prompt into your

1:07:07

browser window, you know, if it

1:07:09

takes, you know, five, 10 seconds,

1:07:11

a minute, two minutes, not

1:07:13

the end of the world, doesn't really matter. This

1:07:15

stuff has to happen, you know, in the

1:07:18

span, you have to process every one of

1:07:20

those sensor signals and somewhere between 50 and

1:07:22

a hundred milliseconds. So it

1:07:24

takes a lot of computing power to do

1:07:26

that in a vehicle. And,

1:07:29

you know, this is a, this is

1:07:31

a dual or and board. There's a

1:07:34

Chinese company called, sorry,

1:07:37

Xiaopeng, was it Neil? Neil,

1:07:40

Neil, on some of

1:07:42

their newer vehicles. They have, they're

1:07:44

using an Nvidia system that has four

1:07:47

Orens in there. So a thousand tops

1:07:51

to do their, their driver assist systems in

1:07:53

there. There's

1:07:55

one idea. Compare that, say, to

1:07:58

a Tesla with FSD. Do

1:08:01

we know how much processing is in a yeah

1:08:04

about 140 tops? Okay, so this is a lot

1:08:06

bigger Yes, much

1:08:08

much more power much more computing power

1:08:11

on this than the current Tesla FSD computer

1:08:13

And you should definitely not take your m4

1:08:15

iPad out for a while No,

1:08:18

definitely not but keep in mind, you

1:08:21

know that the Tesla system only

1:08:23

has eight cameras and early Depending

1:08:26

on what position there are on the vehicle.

1:08:28

They're either one one point two or

1:08:31

two point seven megapixels Oh, that's ridiculous.

1:08:33

So this so this is handling eight

1:08:35

megapixel camera images and and I are

1:08:37

probably as well, right? And yeah,

1:08:39

and can handle light our and radar and

1:08:42

all the other stuff that also has to happen in

1:08:44

real time and You're

1:08:46

also Doing redundant calculations

1:08:49

in here Typically,

1:08:51

you know using at least two

1:08:53

different algorithms that are doing the

1:08:55

same thing and cross-checking each other

1:08:57

for safety There

1:09:01

is one there's there are a couple of slight downsides to

1:09:03

this besides it being rather pricey It's

1:09:07

yeah, are there any cars with this in

1:09:09

it now? Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay like a

1:09:11

loser or something, right? There's actually quite a

1:09:13

few in China that

1:09:16

have this lucid is not lucid is not using the

1:09:18

orin right now They're using it.

1:09:20

I think or maybe they

1:09:22

are no, they're not they're not using the orin at

1:09:24

the moment But that would explain

1:09:26

why some cars are really pricey.

1:09:28

I mean no inexpensive car. Yeah would have

1:09:31

this device in it. I would think Not

1:09:34

not this one, but there are versions of this

1:09:37

that are lower power or Depending

1:09:39

on the type of system you're doing so

1:09:42

there are versions that can support lower power

1:09:44

consumption and lower cost Just

1:09:47

this past week Rivian

1:09:50

revealed their updated version

1:09:52

of the r1t and r1s

1:09:55

their electric pickup and SUV They

1:09:58

are used they have switched from Their

1:10:00

previous ADAS system used

1:10:04

an Amberrela CV2 chip. They're

1:10:07

now using a dual ORAN system so

1:10:09

that they'll have the ability to do more, add

1:10:12

more capability to those vehicles like hands-free driving.

1:10:15

Also Volvo started

1:10:18

production this past week of

1:10:20

the EX90 in Charleston, South Carolina,

1:10:22

which is their new three-row electric

1:10:24

SUV. It also has

1:10:26

a dual ORAN system for its ADAS. Next

1:10:29

year, Mercedes-Benz is going to have

1:10:33

some new vehicles that use

1:10:35

ORAN systems. So there's actually quite

1:10:37

a few out there. And this is

1:10:39

not even the top of the top

1:10:42

of the line for Nvidia. Starting

1:10:45

at the end of this year or late, or

1:10:47

early 2025, the

1:10:49

first vehicles from Zeecker will

1:10:51

be using the Nvidia

1:10:54

Thor chip, which is the

1:10:56

next generation chip for

1:10:58

driver-assist and automated driving. Thor

1:11:01

does 2,000 tops from a single chip.

1:11:04

Oh my God. Now, does

1:11:06

this mean it's better at full self-driving?

1:11:09

Right, just because it's got more processing. It's

1:11:11

faster, but is it better? It

1:11:14

all depends on the software you're running. Yeah, and the

1:11:16

sensors you run. Yeah, there's a lot of other things

1:11:18

involved in the training. It certainly

1:11:20

has the potential to be better. Right.

1:11:23

There's no guarantee. I mean, if you have

1:11:26

software that doesn't do the job, and

1:11:29

if you don't do things like

1:11:31

I talked about having redundant algorithms,

1:11:33

as well as all the, you

1:11:35

need redundant hardware to do

1:11:37

automated driving, but you also

1:11:40

need redundant algorithms. So you're

1:11:42

running, you might

1:11:44

be running an end-to-end neural

1:11:46

network system in

1:11:48

parallel with a

1:11:50

more deterministic, traditional rules-based

1:11:52

algorithm. Why would a

1:11:54

zeeker have such a giant

1:11:56

top? This

1:11:59

is the zeeker. by the way, which is I think a brand a

1:12:01

lot of people are unfamiliar with. Yeah,

1:12:03

I've never heard of it. Yeah, it's not

1:12:05

sold here. It's

1:12:08

a Chinese brand. It's part of Geely Group. Geely

1:12:10

also happens to own Volvo

1:12:12

and Polestar and Lincoln Co

1:12:14

and quite a few

1:12:17

other brands. Zeeker is Z-E-E-K-R.

1:12:20

My little brother's name is Ezekiel

1:12:22

and we used to call him Zeeker. That was

1:12:24

his nickname. Oh, really? That's the only reason

1:12:27

I know of Zeeker. So is

1:12:29

this a really expensive vehicle? It's

1:12:34

kind of a mid-range, premium, roughly

1:12:37

equivalent to like a Lexus. So it's a

1:12:39

luxury vehicle. It's a more premium brand. Yeah,

1:12:41

but it's not a Bentley. And

1:12:44

you could currently only buy it in Sweden,

1:12:47

Germany and the Netherlands. In

1:12:49

Europe, yes. You can also buy it

1:12:52

in China and some other countries in

1:12:54

Asia. Okay. Could

1:12:56

I buy it and import it? No.

1:13:00

At least not until, let's see, 2049.

1:13:05

So it'd have to be 25 years old before you can

1:13:07

import it. I

1:13:09

guess I won't do that. You're

1:13:11

allowed to import cars that don't meet

1:13:14

US safety requirements 25 years after they're

1:13:16

built. Oh, okay.

1:13:19

So you can't buy a new Zeeker in 2049. You

1:13:21

just have to wait, buy a Zeeker today

1:13:23

and wait until 2049. Buy a

1:13:25

Zeeker today. Yeah, buy a

1:13:27

used one in 2049 and bring it in. You

1:13:31

know, I'm not going to buy any car

1:13:33

that has side mirrors. I'm

1:13:36

convinced that the future

1:13:38

has no side mirrors. Just

1:13:41

like Elon's convinced there's no Liar. In

1:13:44

other countries, that's already true.

1:13:46

You can already buy cars without side mirrors. Yeah.

1:13:49

So they'll have like a little

1:13:51

wing with a camera that hangs

1:13:53

out where the mirrors are today

1:13:56

and rather than a big old mirror, that's,

1:13:58

you know, I like that. through the

1:14:00

air. Yeah. Just have a little camera there that

1:14:02

is looking back. And then

1:14:05

there'll be screens, uh, inside the car,

1:14:07

um, somewhere near the base of the

1:14:10

a pillar on either side, you know, roughly where

1:14:12

you would look for your mirrors. Uh,

1:14:14

and it'll project that information there on

1:14:16

those, on those. That's how I know I'm not going

1:14:18

to want a zeeker in 25 years. Cause

1:14:21

it still has mirrors. Uh,

1:14:23

they, um, I believe they do have versions of

1:14:25

those or at least some of them like the

1:14:27

old one, I think they have, I have without

1:14:29

mirrors. Um, I've

1:14:32

driven a few cars without, uh, without side

1:14:34

mirrors like that. Uh, Lotus, uh,

1:14:36

which is also now owned by Geely,

1:14:39

uh, is among the companies that they

1:14:41

have, their new Lotus Electra and

1:14:43

Amaya, uh, EVs, uh, have

1:14:45

no side mirrors. They, uh, they have cameras

1:14:48

on the side. So I went to the

1:14:50

zeeker O a one site and

1:14:52

I think there's a language golf golf

1:14:54

here. Cause it says the luxury shooting

1:14:57

break. What

1:14:59

is that? Do I want that? That is a Europe. A

1:15:03

shooting break is a European term for, uh,

1:15:06

sort of wagon like vehicle. Oh, uh, that's

1:15:08

a, so we call it a station. They

1:15:11

call them, Oh, cause you're going shooting with it.

1:15:14

That's, that's kind of where it came from.

1:15:16

Yeah. Like, you know, hunting vehicles, you know,

1:15:19

that, that the nobles would take out, you

1:15:21

know, on the, on the,

1:15:23

uh, on the manor ground. Darling, bring around

1:15:25

the shooting break. It's

1:15:28

it's an, it's an, it's an English thing. You

1:15:30

know, it's, Oh, okay. So

1:15:32

I was right. It is a language problem because you

1:15:34

know, yes, England

1:15:37

and America, uh, uh, are two

1:15:39

countries that share a different

1:15:41

language or something like that. Yeah. All right.

1:15:43

So cut countries divided by

1:15:45

a common language. That's it. Thank you. Churchill.

1:15:48

Um, great.

1:15:51

So, uh, it's interesting that they're

1:15:53

putting so much power in these

1:15:55

things. There are a couple of other minor

1:15:57

issues while you perhaps might not want to

1:15:59

use these chips in your iPad

1:16:01

or in a laptop. Power,

1:16:04

power. They consume a little

1:16:06

bit of power. Yeah. The Oren,

1:16:09

each Oren consumes somewhere between 150 and 200

1:16:11

watts. Yikes. To

1:16:14

drive it. Yeah. Yikes. That's

1:16:17

a lot. It's like an incandescent light bulb.

1:16:19

Yikes. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this

1:16:21

chip, keep in mind, this is an SOC that contains

1:16:23

a bunch of high-end ARM cores. It

1:16:25

contains a whole bunch of GPU cores. So

1:16:28

the GPU cores in the

1:16:30

Oren are the same

1:16:32

cores, the same GPU microarchitecture

1:16:35

that you'll find in

1:16:37

those H100 GPUs that

1:16:39

all the AI companies

1:16:42

seem to want. Nice. And

1:16:45

then also a bunch of Tensor cores

1:16:47

and some various other AI accelerator cores.

1:16:49

So there's about 200 million or 200,

1:16:51

sorry, I think it's 200 million transistors

1:16:53

in there. Maybe

1:17:00

it's 200 billion. It's got to be more

1:17:02

than a million. It's a huge number of transistors. It's got to be billion.

1:17:05

It's a big chip. Because an M4 has like

1:17:07

a trillion transistors in it. So yeah,

1:17:09

it's got to. Yeah. So

1:17:12

there's a lot of horsepower. And of course, because

1:17:14

it's consuming so much power, it also needs to

1:17:16

be liquid cooled. So unless you

1:17:18

want a liquid cooled iPad. Wow.

1:17:22

Do they really need all this horsepower to

1:17:25

drive? It

1:17:28

depends on what you want. Like I said, it depends on what you want to

1:17:30

do with it. If you want

1:17:32

to try to make something that is actually

1:17:34

remotely close to self-driving, yes.

1:17:38

If you just

1:17:40

want to do ABS and cruise control, no,

1:17:42

you don't need that. And

1:17:44

I'm going to correct myself. The M4 iPad has 28 billion

1:17:48

transistors, not a trillion. Then

1:17:50

it was like somewhere in the order of

1:17:53

200 billion transistors on the Oren. Ten

1:17:57

times the size of the iPad. on

1:18:00

Thor, which is the new one that's coming out. That

1:18:03

one's 2000 tops. That's amazing. That's

1:18:05

amazing. Samable

1:18:07

Sam, the car guy, and now he's

1:18:10

like the PC guy. Yeah, wow. Yeah.

1:18:13

Really crossing the stream. These are computers

1:18:15

with wheels, basically. Yeah, yeah,

1:18:17

absolutely. Back in my day, I

1:18:19

just had to hit the thing

1:18:21

with a wrench and it started

1:18:23

working again. Wheels and shooting breaks.

1:18:25

Everything you need to transport

1:18:27

your guns. When I started my engineering

1:18:30

career, Micah, we

1:18:32

were using Intel ADC-196

1:18:35

microcontrollers for ABS. Oh,

1:18:38

wow. And those,

1:18:40

they had, it was

1:18:42

a 12 megahertz chip that

1:18:45

had 12K of ROM, or 12K, yeah, 12K of

1:18:48

ROM on board and

1:18:51

64 bytes, not kilobytes, 64 bytes

1:18:53

of RAM. Oh my God. That's

1:18:56

amazing. And we made an ABS system. We were able to

1:18:58

make an ABS system. What is a, so I've

1:19:00

got a car from 2014, which has ABS. Has

1:19:06

that technology significantly improved or improved much

1:19:08

at all? Oh, yes. Yeah.

1:19:10

I just didn't know if they had to. What car do you have?

1:19:13

It's a Subaru Impreza. Yeah,

1:19:16

no, it's absolutely way beyond anything

1:19:18

we were doing in 1990. I

1:19:21

didn't know. It was just like, well, we've solved

1:19:23

it, so do we really need to improve upon anti-luck

1:19:25

braking? Yeah, anything in

1:19:27

the last dozen years by default

1:19:29

has electronic stability control as a

1:19:31

minimum. I had a 1998 Lada

1:19:35

that still had a hang crank in the front to

1:19:38

get it started. So. I don't

1:19:40

believe that for a second. I

1:19:42

know, that's a whole Lada BS. In college,

1:19:45

starting up my Lada in

1:19:47

the snow. Whole Lada BS. I know

1:19:50

somebody who owned a Lada. I grew up in

1:19:52

Canada where they actually sold Lada's for a number

1:19:54

of years. They built Soviet vehicles. Yeah. Yeah.

1:19:58

And I did not picture. you

1:20:00

driving a lot of the

1:20:02

nice thing about it is you knew how fast

1:20:04

you're going because you could see in the hole

1:20:06

in the floor you could see the road going

1:20:08

by absolutely Flintstones vehicle pretty much yeah yeah I

1:20:11

think it would be cool to have like a

1:20:13

mirror or not a mirror but something clear I

1:20:15

don't know why you took a salt shaker and

1:20:17

you know shook it in the general direction of

1:20:19

a lot of it would turn to iron

1:20:22

oxide the

1:20:24

archaic Lotta Niva had

1:20:27

a crank hole through its front bumper all the way until

1:20:29

1998 yeah but

1:20:33

that was for farmers visiting rural areas

1:20:35

in the Soviet Union and

1:20:37

you know if your battery went dead yeah

1:20:39

it's always good to have me to start

1:20:42

it little starter right there Wow oh

1:20:45

my my friends at

1:20:47

the the YouTube channel TFL they

1:20:49

actually have they last year they

1:20:52

bought a 1914 Model T and

1:20:55

they've done a series of videos that's with

1:20:58

that and like they took it to

1:21:01

they took it to a McDonald's drive-thru oh

1:21:05

and they also took it to to

1:21:07

a local Ford dealer they're based in

1:21:10

Boulder and they took it to a local Ford dealer

1:21:12

for an oil change that

1:21:14

was quite an that's hilarious well I'll tell

1:21:16

you one thing you don't want to do

1:21:18

is get in a helicopter and

1:21:21

fire fireworks

1:21:25

after a Lamborghini

1:21:27

yes a youtuber what is who

1:21:29

decided that it would be really cool this

1:21:31

is a problem with YouTube it encourages extreme

1:21:33

behavior he said it would

1:21:35

be really cool to show two people in a helicopter

1:21:37

shooting fireworks I'll show you at

1:21:39

a Lamborghini that was driving to

1:21:42

escape up in the desert

1:21:44

there and he's now been charged

1:21:46

with a federal crime facing up to 10

1:21:48

years in prison yeah that seems very dangerous

1:21:50

for bringing explosives yeah that's just that's just

1:21:53

stupid that's just dumb all that

1:21:55

for views Wow

1:22:00

Yeah. If you want to view something, what

1:22:02

you should do is go

1:22:04

to the Wheelbarings YouTube channel. Yeah. Then

1:22:07

view my walkthrough video of the Michigan

1:22:09

Central Station. This

1:22:12

is a train station in Detroit that

1:22:15

had closed in 1988. These

1:22:17

beautiful old train stations. They're so

1:22:19

gorgeous. It was vacant for 36

1:22:22

years. Ford bought it

1:22:24

in 2018 and they refurbished it and

1:22:26

they just had the

1:22:31

grand opening ceremony this week for

1:22:33

the train station. Is it like a grand central

1:22:35

station? It

1:22:38

was actually done by the same architects that did,

1:22:41

I think, Penn Station, the old Penn

1:22:43

Station. Oh, not

1:22:45

the most beautiful station in New York, but

1:22:47

this looks very, very... Yeah.

1:22:49

It's amazing when you go through

1:22:52

it. Save that. That's great.

1:22:54

Yeah. I did a walkthrough there

1:22:57

to show all the stuff that they did. They did

1:22:59

some pretty amazing stuff like

1:23:01

finding the building.

1:23:04

The first thing they had to do was pump three and a

1:23:06

half million gallons of water out of the building. It was filled

1:23:08

with water? There were

1:23:10

no windows. Most of the roofs was

1:23:12

destroyed. Yeah. Well, I mean, from rain.

1:23:14

Yeah. Unfortunately... Three decades of rain. This

1:23:16

is going to be a short video

1:23:18

because it's locked. No, no, no. I

1:23:21

stepped outside not realizing... You locked yourself

1:23:23

out. ...that the door was locked. Yeah.

1:23:26

Yeah. It's magnificent, the building. I read

1:23:28

an interesting article the other day. Why

1:23:30

don't we build buildings like this anymore?

1:23:33

We don't build ornate cathedrals

1:23:35

to commerce anymore. It's

1:23:38

because it's very expensive. It's extremely

1:23:40

expensive. The craftspeople who did this

1:23:42

are gone. Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:45

Since 2018, over 3,100 people worked on the construction on the

1:23:47

building. Wow.

1:23:52

Wow. Plus several hundred

1:23:54

researchers going through

1:23:57

finding the plans, finding the designs for

1:23:59

everything. Ford do this just out

1:24:01

of civic pride or? Yeah,

1:24:04

partly. Yeah, they're gonna be

1:24:06

occupying several floors of the tower. So

1:24:08

it's office space, good, okay. Office

1:24:11

space, there's gonna be a hotel in there. But

1:24:13

no trains anymore, I bet. Not

1:24:15

yet. They are working

1:24:18

with Amtrak. They're having discussions with Amtrak

1:24:20

about restoring service to the station and

1:24:22

having it be a working station again.

1:24:25

Oh, that would be cool. Some

1:24:27

elements of this, like the

1:24:30

limestone, there was

1:24:32

a lot of pieces that had been removed

1:24:34

by scavengers over the years or that

1:24:36

just fell off. You should see the

1:24:38

parthenon. Yeah, I

1:24:41

have seen it, yeah. They

1:24:43

searched, they

1:24:46

went to a bunch of different quarries to

1:24:50

try and find limestone that matched what

1:24:52

was there in the building. And they

1:24:55

could not find anything that was the right match.

1:24:58

And this is what you're showing right now is

1:25:00

the pits on some of the columns. So in

1:25:02

some areas of the building, they left some of

1:25:04

it as it was without restoring it to

1:25:07

show the chapters of the

1:25:09

building's history. But for the

1:25:11

limestone, they actually tracked down the

1:25:13

original quarry where

1:25:15

they had got the limestone for the building.

1:25:18

And then it had

1:25:20

been closed about the same time as the building was in the late

1:25:22

80s. So it had been closed for over 30

1:25:24

years. They tracked down the

1:25:26

owner of the quarry, convinced

1:25:29

them to reopen it temporarily

1:25:31

so they could quarry more

1:25:34

limestone to restore this building.

1:25:36

That's amazing. The work

1:25:38

they did was just unbelievable. Yeah.

1:25:41

Well, good, that's on the YouTube channel

1:25:43

for wheel bearings. Just

1:25:46

go to youtube.com/ wheel

1:25:48

bearings. And there are a

1:25:50

lot of wheel bearings. So it's at wheel bearings

1:25:53

cast because it's a podcast.

1:25:55

So it's a little easier to find it if you go to, what, 500,

1:25:58

I'm going to add, let's make it 502. Look

1:26:01

at that. And look at that video. There's

1:26:03

a very first video on the list, but you can also watch

1:26:05

the show in there and so forth.

1:26:08

Hey, Sam, always a pleasure. Thank you for being here.

1:26:10

Thank you. My pleasure. Have a great day,

1:26:12

guys. This man has thousands of tops, thousands

1:26:14

of them. Take care,

1:26:17

Samable Semit. Car Guy

1:26:19

and principal researcher at Guidehouse Insights. I

1:26:21

want to show, it came to me,

1:26:24

remember we were

1:26:26

talking to Jim and his book is 2000 pages.

1:26:28

It's too big for any normal word

1:26:30

processor. Now, I know Jim uses Windows,

1:26:33

but I reminded myself about this. This

1:26:35

is a word presser I used for

1:26:37

years on the Mac and

1:26:39

it's still around. In fact, it is

1:26:41

now out for Apple Silicon called Nicys

1:26:43

Writer that has no theoretical limit on

1:26:45

file size and is

1:26:47

designed to handle super big files, especially if

1:26:49

you run it in draft mode. They have

1:26:52

a formatted mode. Their

1:26:54

default document format is very efficient.

1:26:56

It's RTF, much more

1:26:58

efficient than Word's DocEx format. But

1:27:01

also if you put it in draft mode, then you don't

1:27:03

see all the formatting and it can handle thousands

1:27:05

of pages. Now I realize, Jim, that you'd have

1:27:07

to go out and buy a Mac. But

1:27:10

the good news is if you find somebody with

1:27:12

a Mac, they have a, I think, a

1:27:14

one month free trial. So you

1:27:16

could download Nicys Writer Pro, load in

1:27:20

your book and see if you can use it.

1:27:22

It has a very good search, grep

1:27:25

style search. This is a really wonderful word

1:27:27

processor that never got the attention. Yeah, I

1:27:29

was going to say, I've never heard of

1:27:31

it. That's, yeah, you're a Mac guy. In

1:27:33

the early days of Mac, this was really

1:27:35

a remarkable word processor, Nicys,

1:27:37

N I S U

1:27:39

S dot com. So

1:27:41

Jim, if you could find somebody with a

1:27:43

Mac or I happen

1:27:46

to have a Mac. So if you just send

1:27:48

me your manuscript, I promise not to read

1:27:50

it. If

1:27:52

you just send me your manuscript, I will be

1:27:54

glad to try it in Nicys. I

1:27:57

have, I have owned a copy of Nicys since

1:27:59

the eight. Believe it or not. I love it. Wow.

1:28:03

It's a great little word processor. Okay.

1:28:07

Okay. What should

1:28:09

we do now, Mr. Anthony Nielsen? Let's take a

1:28:11

quick break and then come back with Richard, who's

1:28:13

on the line. A quick break. Richard, get ready

1:28:16

because we're going to go to you next on

1:28:18

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1:29:55

our next call is Richard.

1:29:59

Richard! Hello Richard.

1:30:03

I'm doing all right. Good. What

1:30:06

I was wondering I want

1:30:08

to switch over to like a VoIP internet

1:30:11

provider service But I

1:30:14

tried I got a UMA system. Oh, yeah,

1:30:16

they've been around for ages. UMA will not

1:30:19

Allow me to transfer my landlines

1:30:22

over for some reason. Oh You

1:30:25

want to keep your phone number? Yes

1:30:29

This is funny this we used to talk

1:30:31

about this all the time and we haven't

1:30:34

done much lately You know most

1:30:36

people don't have landlines anymore. They just use

1:30:38

their cell phone I

1:30:40

know I look on videos

1:30:42

for VoIP and most of them are either Business

1:30:46

or they're like four or six years old if

1:30:48

they're talking about home service Yeah,

1:30:51

we we still use a VoIP service here

1:30:54

in the business called Ring Central. They were

1:30:56

a sponsor for a long time

1:30:58

I noticed by the way, they have now added

1:31:00

AI as one of their selling points I

1:31:03

think probably if how techy

1:31:05

are you? Not

1:31:08

too bad. I mean I do

1:31:10

a lot of my own electronic stuff. I'll

1:31:13

build my own computers and stuff Okay

1:31:16

There is an open source phone

1:31:22

I mean it is like phone system

1:31:25

on steroids called asterisk It

1:31:28

is free. So it's open source you

1:31:30

run it on a computer and it becomes Your

1:31:34

basically a PBX if you wanted

1:31:36

a very sophisticated phone

1:31:39

system Asterisk

1:31:42

is is It has

1:31:44

been for years the way to go it is

1:31:46

for a more techy person me you would like

1:31:48

you you've built your own PC You're certainly equipped

1:31:51

to do this usually runs

1:31:53

on Linux You

1:31:55

put it on a headless PC in the

1:31:57

corner connect it to the internet and then

1:31:59

you get VoIP phones to go with it.

1:32:02

So they have a variety of IP

1:32:05

based phones. They're mostly business focused because

1:32:07

this is really a PBX

1:32:09

system. But

1:32:12

if you want landline phones I'm suspecting

1:32:14

that you want that you want

1:32:17

a phone system because you have more

1:32:19

sophisticated needs right? It's not just for

1:32:21

a phone to put next to the

1:32:23

bed I would presume. Well mainly I

1:32:25

wanted to get rid of the landlines

1:32:28

because my landlines are like 60 some

1:32:30

bucks a piece. Yeah well

1:32:33

you know landlines

1:32:35

yeah now yeah

1:32:38

I think asterisk might not be a bad way

1:32:40

to go. There's a great community around it. They

1:32:43

have a forum and a wiki. I would

1:32:46

I would take a look at it anyway just

1:32:48

to see if it

1:32:50

might be overkill. Oops the wiki's

1:32:53

down temporarily it looks

1:32:55

like. Might be overkill but

1:32:57

this is what we would you know what

1:32:59

the pros you know like the head the

1:33:01

really serious phone heads would

1:33:03

use. Otherwise yeah there are commercial products

1:33:06

like Uma Ring Central's one. I

1:33:09

checked like Vonage. I know Vonage would

1:33:12

switch my numbers over but I'm

1:33:14

not sure how well Vonage is now. This

1:33:17

is I mean it's kind of a dying

1:33:20

category is part of the problem. Somebody said

1:33:22

that they did use Uma and that they

1:33:25

struggled at first to transfer their landline but

1:33:27

were eventually able to. I

1:33:30

don't know how much you troubleshooted to get that to

1:33:32

work but that's because

1:33:34

I called them and

1:33:36

tried to talk to them to get it to

1:33:38

transfer but they said they can't transfer it at

1:33:40

this time. Here's my biggest concern this

1:33:43

is a dying category and

1:33:45

if you're relying on any company to provide you

1:33:47

with VoIP I don't

1:33:49

know how much how much that's gonna

1:33:52

be around. Yeah I mean frankly copper

1:33:55

phone lines are on the way out right.

1:33:59

So Why

1:34:01

do you need a phone line? It's

1:34:05

just my parents use

1:34:08

the phone line. So it's something

1:34:10

that they want to use. That's who still has

1:34:12

phone lines is people my age. I

1:34:15

know my in-laws, they have

1:34:18

call waiting but they

1:34:21

don't know how to use it. So

1:34:24

you basically have to call, you have to call when

1:34:26

they're not on the phone. And

1:34:29

I just hope, because they don't have an answer. They don't have

1:34:31

nothing. And if you, it's like the

1:34:33

old days when you, but that's because they're in their

1:34:35

seventies and eighties and that's what they're

1:34:37

used to. Nobody

1:34:40

under 30 has a landline anymore, I

1:34:42

would guess. Except I think there's more service

1:34:45

doesn't work out here either. Ah,

1:34:47

now that's a good reason. Tell me about

1:34:49

your internet. How do, what kind of internet can you get out

1:34:51

there? I actually

1:34:53

got Starlink now on that works a

1:34:55

lot better because I do still

1:34:57

have my old internet which is

1:35:00

a DSL, copper. And that

1:35:02

is pretty painful. But

1:35:04

the Starlink is really good. So

1:35:09

do they offer, I would think they would offer a

1:35:11

VoIP add-on be honest with you, but they

1:35:13

don't. That's

1:35:16

an opportunity for them. But I guess,

1:35:18

because most internet service providers do

1:35:21

offer VoIP, right? If you have

1:35:23

Comcast or Cox or any of

1:35:26

them, you can use. Windstream. Yeah,

1:35:28

you don't, yeah, you're out in the boonies which is

1:35:31

great. You live in a beautiful area. Here's

1:35:34

one recommended by our chat room.

1:35:36

I'm not familiar with it. VoIP.ms.

1:35:41

VoIP.ms. Voted

1:35:45

best provider on Captera, that's a good

1:35:47

sign. 85 cents a

1:35:49

month. So

1:35:51

this might be another one. I don't have

1:35:53

any experience with this one, but you can

1:35:55

transfer your current phone number it says. Yeah,

1:35:59

that's a. Same thing, Uma said, but for some

1:36:01

reason, this area that they cannot

1:36:04

transfer the number. Yeah, I wonder then it's

1:36:06

not Uma's fault or it's your

1:36:08

carrier that maybe, there are,

1:36:10

federal law requires them to offer number

1:36:12

portability, but a small carrier might be

1:36:15

able to snake out of that by

1:36:18

saying, oh, you know, wind stream's not a

1:36:20

very small carrier either. That's a

1:36:22

name I know. Yeah. I wonder if

1:36:24

wind stream is the issue. They

1:36:27

could be, they're pretty difficult to kind

1:36:29

of work with because they bought our

1:36:31

phone service here and then when they

1:36:34

bought it, they actually closed the main

1:36:36

building down. So there's

1:36:38

no actual office area either. Yeah.

1:36:41

This is, this is the sad, sad story

1:36:43

of telecommunications in the United States. They

1:36:47

do offer a VoIP, wind

1:36:49

stream does, but it doesn't

1:36:52

sound like you want to do that. Yeah.

1:36:55

Cause I said, I mean, I've got a, you

1:36:58

know, I've got one that one

1:37:00

line that has the phone and the internet

1:37:02

from them on it. And then one is

1:37:04

just the phone and they only

1:37:06

differ by like a dollar. So one's like $62 and

1:37:09

the other one's 63. Yeah.

1:37:12

I think you're paying because you live in

1:37:15

a country. I'm sorry to say. What

1:37:18

would be a good alternative? You don't have

1:37:20

sell, sells expensive anyway, right?

1:37:22

It's going to be more than 60 bucks a month

1:37:24

per line. You

1:37:27

don't have good internet. I would,

1:37:29

I wonder if there's any Starlink VoIP

1:37:32

providers. Well that's what I got now for Starlink,

1:37:34

but I don't know. Yeah. But

1:37:36

I'm wondering if somebody that specifically works

1:37:38

with Starlink. I

1:37:41

know there's been a, they're

1:37:44

working with cell phone providers where

1:37:46

you get cell service right off

1:37:48

the Starlink satellites, but

1:37:51

that's not active yet. Yes.

1:37:53

It does say UMA and magic Jack,

1:37:56

which is the other big consumer

1:37:58

VoIP company work with Starlink. link. So

1:38:00

that's a good sign. Have you tried magic?

1:38:03

Uh, magic Jack yet. No,

1:38:06

not yet. Like I said, I did get

1:38:08

the UMA equipment and it works really good,

1:38:10

but I said, they won't let me transfer

1:38:12

my numbers over. Yeah.

1:38:15

I'm going to guess that is windstream,

1:38:17

not UMA. The UMA wants

1:38:19

to, and I wonder if windstream

1:38:21

is somehow exempt from the fed FCC requires

1:38:23

number portability. That's a, that was, it took

1:38:25

a federal law to do that, by the

1:38:27

way. That wasn't easy. These guys don't want

1:38:29

to give that up. Um,

1:38:32

you might have to change numbers. Uh,

1:38:35

UMA and magic Jack are very similar. Um,

1:38:39

and then of course a lot of people use, uh, you

1:38:42

know, things like Microsoft teams or

1:38:45

Skype or you could buy a

1:38:47

phone number from Skype. You might even be able to port it

1:38:49

over to Skype. Um,

1:38:51

that might be a cheaper way to go. I used to have

1:38:53

a, uh, when my daughter was living in

1:38:56

France, I had a international calling

1:38:58

plan for Skype that was very inexpensive and I

1:39:00

was able to talk to her all

1:39:02

the time and it added video as well. Um,

1:39:06

see if you can port it to

1:39:08

either Skype or Google voice. If you

1:39:10

have trouble porting it, then it's windstream.

1:39:14

And then I would say a call to

1:39:16

windstream. Good luck. Yeah.

1:39:19

And say, look, what's your policy on porting? Why

1:39:21

can't I get this stuff ported? Especially

1:39:23

if you mentioned we get that so much

1:39:26

to see those numbers too. Yeah. It's

1:39:29

funny. I used to recommend OB talk. We really

1:39:31

liked OB talk a lot. They are now gone.

1:39:34

Difty font. Um,

1:39:37

OB high was really cool. We used it

1:39:39

with Google voice for free phone service with

1:39:42

a real number. Uh,

1:39:44

I would look at, see if you could sign

1:39:46

up with Google voice and port your number over or

1:39:48

see if you can do magic Jack and port

1:39:51

your number over. If all of the services say,

1:39:53

yeah, we can't then it's windstream. Yep. And

1:39:55

then at least you know where to, where to focus

1:39:57

your energy and your attention. All your members. of

1:40:00

Congress. What state are you in? Minnesota.

1:40:04

Call Amy Klobuchar

1:40:06

and say Amy, honey,

1:40:08

baby, cookie, sweetie. Don't say that. Don't

1:40:10

say that. She's

1:40:14

known to throw things. I would not

1:40:16

say that. That's probably a good idea.

1:40:18

Yeah. Well, yeah,

1:40:21

this is frustrating. I share

1:40:24

your pain. I don't know of a good way to do this.

1:40:27

You are the, you're the, the

1:40:29

place where you really need VoIP, frankly. Yeah.

1:40:31

And now that you have Starlink, at least

1:40:33

you have, I mean, thank goodness for Starlink.

1:40:37

Yeah. And you're happy with that, huh? Yeah.

1:40:40

Well, when we got it at first, we

1:40:42

got it in the winter time and it

1:40:44

worked good until summer came. Then

1:40:46

the Leafs came and then it didn't work.

1:40:48

So you gotta go. I put it on,

1:40:50

I actually installed a tower and put it

1:40:52

55 feet up in the air. Right

1:40:56

now. Awesome. What kind of speeds

1:40:58

are you getting? Uh,

1:41:00

about, uh, what are

1:41:03

we getting? We're getting like about 250 megabytes per second.

1:41:09

They spec. That's great. It's

1:41:11

pretty good. The real key

1:41:13

on VoIP is latency. What's your latency like? Do

1:41:15

you know? Um, I

1:41:17

do believe the latency is like

1:41:19

about around 30 milliseconds.

1:41:21

I think it is. As long as it's under a

1:41:24

hundred, uh, you know, there might be a little lag,

1:41:26

but 30 milliseconds is nothing. Um,

1:41:28

so yeah, I think you should be able to do

1:41:30

something with Starlink. Um,

1:41:33

but the real issue is porting those numbers

1:41:35

and you might have to tell mom and

1:41:37

dad, we need a new number. I'm sorry.

1:41:39

Yeah. Cause it's like, we got so much

1:41:41

stuff attached to those numbers. I know. If

1:41:44

you have it for a long time, I know. Um,

1:41:48

let's see. Here's an article from here

1:41:50

for 50 years. So there's a lot

1:41:52

of stuff attached to them. Yeah. Best

1:41:55

VoIP services for Starlink says,

1:41:57

uh, Uma magic. Jack

1:42:00

and then a company called AX Voice, which

1:42:03

is $100 a year. So

1:42:06

these would be things, at least names you can look at.

1:42:08

I'll put this in the show notes. It's

1:42:10

an article from Blink, Blink. I

1:42:13

don't know who they are, but

1:42:15

I looked up specifically for

1:42:17

VoIP services with Starlink. And

1:42:21

this is just an individual, I think. So

1:42:24

that's good. He's not in the

1:42:26

pocket of big tech like

1:42:28

us. No, we're not. Are we? No.

1:42:31

We're not. I can see your hands. They're not in any

1:42:34

pockets. I have no hands and

1:42:36

no pockets. If only we were in

1:42:38

the pocket of big tech. Any big tech company wants

1:42:40

to come along and buy us. That's okay. Let

1:42:43

me see. I don't know this AX Voice. No

1:42:46

additional installation costs. Free

1:42:48

VoIP phone adapter. So that's nice. You

1:42:51

plug that into your ethernet port and

1:42:53

then your phones continue to work, which

1:42:55

is wonderful. They

1:42:57

have a failover feature. This looks pretty good.

1:43:01

And it's supposedly you can port your number.

1:43:04

All of these supposedly. Yeah,

1:43:06

I think ultimately this comes down to you just

1:43:09

trying another one. And if the porting still isn't working,

1:43:12

then you just focus all of your energy and attention on

1:43:15

the coming out and say, sounds like that's what I'll have

1:43:17

to do. Hey, it's a pleasure talking

1:43:19

to you. Yep. Yeah,

1:43:22

I finally joined your club, but I've watched

1:43:24

you for many years. Oh, bless you. Thank

1:43:27

you so much. I really appreciate the support. Have

1:43:30

a great day. Bye-bye. Summer's

1:43:32

here in Minnesota. Thank goodness. The

1:43:35

snow is clear. The green leaves are coming out. It's 50

1:43:37

degrees instead of 30. If

1:43:40

you want to join the club, we would love to have

1:43:42

you. We got great people in there. It is the kind

1:43:44

of place too, by the way, you can go into the

1:43:46

club, ask these kinds of questions.

1:43:48

The club has basically become a forum. We

1:43:50

have a lot of different ways you can

1:43:52

interact with us, but the club is my

1:43:55

favorite because it supports our

1:43:57

mission here. Seven bucks a month. Now I

1:43:59

know. That's maybe not everybody can afford that

1:44:01

but if you listen to more than one show on

1:44:04

on Twit and you like

1:44:06

the shows and you can't afford seven

1:44:08

bucks. I think it's worth it

1:44:10

ad free versions of all the shows Somebody

1:44:12

said I'm not gonna join. I like the ads.

1:44:14

No, you're not joining to

1:44:16

get the ad free It's just a bonus

1:44:19

feature, right? You get additional content like Micah's

1:44:21

crafting corner. Yes, that's coming up very soon

1:44:23

I'm so excited. What is your first craft?

1:44:26

I'm going to be working on I think

1:44:28

I'll still be working on a blanket at that point Granny

1:44:31

square actually a granny hexagon blanket that I've been

1:44:33

working on so cool But the idea is that

1:44:36

everybody has different crafts. They like to work on

1:44:38

we all get together and we're just crafting

1:44:40

together Yeah,

1:44:44

and if people have questions about knitting or

1:44:46

crochet or something then there'll be other people

1:44:48

there, too So yeah, I'm really

1:44:50

looking forward to it I know John Ashley is

1:44:52

planning on being there with his Lego that he's

1:44:54

building. See that's a craft. Yeah, it's a craft

1:44:56

That's awesome. So all sorts of 19th June 19th

1:44:58

at the time 6

1:45:03

p.m. Every third Wednesday of the month.

1:45:06

See this is we really want to keep these

1:45:08

activities going Stacy's book club now we

1:45:10

moved that to the 27th 2 p.m.

1:45:13

We're gonna be reading the book high voltage It's not

1:45:16

too late. You've got a few weeks you can read

1:45:18

high voltage Let's see.

1:45:20

Oh and 10 a.m. Tomorrow you and I

1:45:22

will be watching the Apple keynote

1:45:25

You can watch our streams in the club

1:45:27

twit discord. You can chat with other club

1:45:29

twit members all around the clock You

1:45:32

can also have the warm and fuzzy

1:45:35

feeling that you're keeping the lights on As

1:45:38

I have mentioned earlier, we're probably moving out of

1:45:40

the studio just to save money. We're

1:45:42

really trying to we want to keep

1:45:44

going But at

1:45:46

this point ad revenue has fallen

1:45:48

so dramatically that we think

1:45:51

We probably need you your support now.

1:45:53

I have to say the club growth

1:45:55

is slowed And I

1:45:57

think it's also possible that we've reached the The

1:46:01

limit, like everybody who is going to join the

1:46:03

club has joined the club. Prove me wrong. Maybe

1:46:06

you haven't joined the club. Twit.tv

1:46:08

slash club twit.

1:46:12

Twit.tv slash club twit. All

1:46:14

right. We

1:46:17

got a phone call. Let's have a phone call. Press

1:46:22

star six. Hello Leo. Oh, you've done

1:46:24

it. Hello. Hi, what's your first name

1:46:26

and where you calling

1:46:29

from? It's Ben Leo. Hi, Ben. Ben

1:46:31

Leo. Hello, Ben Leo. You remember me

1:46:33

from your old tech iPod test, don't

1:46:35

you? Of course, Ben. What

1:46:38

can we do for you? It's been a

1:46:40

long day time, old buddy. Oh, buddy. Ben's

1:46:42

on the line. Where's city you calling from,

1:46:44

Ben? Louisville,

1:46:47

Kentucky. Louisville. I remember you. I

1:46:50

do remember you, Ben, actually. Yes. Since

1:46:52

you said Louisville. Yeah. Oh,

1:46:54

that Ben. Well, how's

1:46:56

it going, Micah? It's going well.

1:46:59

Thank you for asking. Thank you for asking.

1:47:02

I'm so excited for the dev conference

1:47:04

tomorrow. You guys, it's not even funny.

1:47:06

Are you an Apple? Apple guy, Ben?

1:47:08

Are you a serious Apple user? Oh,

1:47:13

yes. As a matter of fact, I

1:47:15

actually have a dev account with them,

1:47:17

actually. Oh, you're a developer. Even nicer.

1:47:20

Yes. Yes. And

1:47:24

I actually have a slight question about

1:47:26

my 14 Pro that I

1:47:29

wanted to talk to you guys. Well, you called

1:47:31

the right places where you call. This is the

1:47:33

place, man. Well,

1:47:37

I wanted to ask about upgrading it

1:47:39

to the new OS beta tomorrow, as

1:47:41

a matter of fact.

1:47:43

I don't know if I'm going to do

1:47:45

it to be truthful. I

1:47:48

mean, right now it's running 17 by one. And

1:47:53

the main complaint that I have is that

1:47:57

I've only heard like maybe, you know, since

1:48:00

the 14th came out and

1:48:03

you know, I've tested the beta zone on

1:48:05

how many DAGR times of the years. And

1:48:09

my biggest concern is, you

1:48:11

know, I was looking at the,

1:48:14

um, I was

1:48:17

looking at the features that might've been leaked. I

1:48:19

don't know if any of these are confirmed, I

1:48:22

know they're going to have a lot of AI

1:48:24

stuff potentially. And I just

1:48:27

don't know how well my 14

1:48:29

Pro would handle the UOS. And

1:48:32

I'm a little difficult to do

1:48:34

it just because, you know, I know

1:48:36

in the past Apple has said that not

1:48:39

everything in the new OS is

1:48:41

going to be compatible. There's no

1:48:43

way, there's no way that iOS

1:48:45

18 will be incompatible with the

1:48:47

latest iPhone. Absolutely. Guarantee you it

1:48:49

will be. That's not the problem

1:48:51

with betas. When you download a

1:48:54

beta, you're running software that's not

1:48:56

finished and it's guaranteed that

1:48:58

there will be bugs. Not because of

1:49:00

the hardware. You have the latest hardware,

1:49:02

but because of what Apple's

1:49:04

done. Yeah, because there's bugs. That's why

1:49:06

it's not a release version of the

1:49:08

software. Now in the past I have thinking

1:49:11

it was my job. I have

1:49:13

downloaded beta versions and I've invariably

1:49:15

regretted it.

1:49:17

Uh, there are people like Jason Snell who will

1:49:19

do it right away. Micah Sargent

1:49:21

will do it. Let them

1:49:23

take the arrows. Ben, let

1:49:27

them take the arrows and describe it to you.

1:49:30

Now there are some things and you're going to see tomorrow

1:49:32

10 a.m. Pacific. We're going to

1:49:34

watch together. Micah and I, uh, I

1:49:37

will be there watching with y'all.

1:49:39

Good. Count on it, Ben. So

1:49:42

in fact, go, go in the club and

1:49:44

then we can all get, have conversations about

1:49:46

what's going on. But the, how

1:49:48

much is your club thing a month? Cause I'm

1:49:50

not in it. Oh, and finally I can get

1:49:53

over 12,007 bucks

1:49:55

a month. Is that too much

1:49:57

for you? I will, I will

1:49:59

know that. not a big deal. I

1:50:01

will gladly look into that Leo.

1:50:03

Just one less double cappuccino frappuccino.

1:50:06

I've seen a, all right.

1:50:09

No, nevermind. I was just joking, but go.

1:50:13

You're fine. But I will gladly plan up

1:50:15

to that. Hopefully today. Cause you know, that's

1:50:18

a good time to join the club. Yeah. Cause

1:50:21

we'll be in the discord watching or,

1:50:23

uh, it was a, your

1:50:26

iPhone original event that I originally watched. And

1:50:28

that's what got me into you and the

1:50:30

whole shebang. And are you talking about when

1:50:32

we did the 24 hours of iPhone? Is

1:50:35

that the one you're talking about? And

1:50:38

Steve was near called in. That

1:50:40

was like the iPhone three years ago. I

1:50:43

was watching that Leo. I was actually on

1:50:45

the line waiting to talk to you back

1:50:48

then. Oh, nice. So we have been

1:50:50

old friends for many a moon. Yes.

1:50:53

Yes. And I have actually seen

1:50:55

some of your, uh, Mac

1:50:57

break episodes. And

1:51:00

the old days, the ones that we did with

1:51:02

Alex, the video. Yeah. So

1:51:04

yeah. Yeah. And I actually, I've

1:51:06

actually seen some of them, some

1:51:08

of your more recent one. Here's

1:51:10

the suggestion. And I gotta tell

1:51:12

you, you guys with Jason and

1:51:15

everything, that was, Oh

1:51:17

my God, they're good people. Jason,

1:51:19

Andy, Alex, great team. Yeah. And

1:51:22

of course, I should tell you, I've

1:51:24

gotten the iPad recently, Leo, but that

1:51:27

probably will get the iOS 18 first

1:51:29

just to see if I like it. Well,

1:51:32

this is what I was going to say, Ben. Let

1:51:35

me describe what we think is going to be

1:51:37

in it. Of course, the definitive answer will be

1:51:39

tomorrow. So you can see if

1:51:41

there's something you might want. And my strong

1:51:43

suggestion, our suggestion always is don't do it

1:51:45

on your phone, on your main device, do

1:51:47

it on a device that you can have

1:51:50

be unreliable. We don't know how

1:51:52

unreliable, especially when it first comes out down

1:51:55

the road. Once this won't be the

1:51:57

public beta, right? The tomorrow will

1:51:59

be the developed. beta. Yeah. And that's

1:52:01

the most buggy

1:52:03

version. It's as buggy as it can be and there are a

1:52:06

couple of things too that I've always sort of given

1:52:08

to people because it's very easy for

1:52:10

me to say as someone who does

1:52:12

install the beta early on, you all

1:52:14

should wait. I understand though that desire,

1:52:16

right? But here's the

1:52:18

thing. There are versions of

1:52:21

Apple's iOS and iPad

1:52:23

OS, etc. that are

1:52:25

small changes. And

1:52:28

when those updates take place, you're a little

1:52:30

little, it's a little less risky to jump

1:52:32

into it. This is going to be

1:52:34

one of those more risky ones. And I remember a

1:52:37

friend of the show, Serenity Caldwell, who

1:52:40

actually works at Apple now, she and I

1:52:42

used to work together at iMore where Renee

1:52:44

Richie and I were also there. And

1:52:47

I remember her installing the beta

1:52:49

on her main device and it

1:52:51

bricking the device that Oh gosh,

1:52:53

I don't think it'll be that

1:52:55

bad. It's not going to be

1:52:57

that bad, but that was during

1:52:59

the redesign of iOS from its

1:53:01

older skeuomorphic style to the new.

1:53:03

Yeah, there was a huge shift. Yeah. And I

1:53:05

think this is going to be this might be rumors.

1:53:07

This is one of the bigger shifts. I don't think

1:53:09

it was as big as that, but this is one

1:53:11

of the bigger shifts. Well, for example, they

1:53:14

say that you'll be able to move these icons around

1:53:16

and leave. This will

1:53:18

be a big change to what this is called

1:53:20

springboard. This is the app that's on the front

1:53:22

of the iPhone, that you will be able to

1:53:25

move these around, that you'll be able to change

1:53:27

the colors. People, some people like to have all

1:53:29

the same color. I personally, I'm

1:53:31

not that excited about that feature. The

1:53:34

features you may get more excited about

1:53:36

may not be available tomorrow. That's the

1:53:38

AI features. Mark Gurman has

1:53:40

said those won't come until next year. So

1:53:43

they'll talk about things like an AI

1:53:45

chat assistant. Maybe you'll get you excited,

1:53:48

but that may not be available tomorrow.

1:53:51

So remember, here's how the calendar works

1:53:53

tomorrow. They'll announce a developer beta for

1:53:55

iOS, iPad OS, and maybe even Mac

1:53:57

OS. Then sometime later.

1:53:59

usually a month later, they'll announce a

1:54:01

public beta. At the very

1:54:04

least, even though Ben, you are

1:54:06

a developer, I would wait till

1:54:08

the public beta at the very least. And

1:54:11

I would not put it on a phone that you

1:54:13

need. If you had an extra phone, maybe

1:54:15

put it on that. iPad, maybe you

1:54:17

don't mind not having full functionality

1:54:19

on your iPad. I don't think it's gonna brick

1:54:21

anything. Has been a long time since. It has,

1:54:23

and honestly, the way to fix bricking has gotten

1:54:26

a lot better, so it's less of a concern.

1:54:28

But it is still possible, and I would hate

1:54:30

for someone to be in a situation where they're

1:54:32

doing it in a place, and then they suddenly

1:54:34

don't have access to the phone, and they need

1:54:36

to have access. So just be mindful

1:54:39

of that. And that's why we

1:54:41

recommend the secondary device or waiting

1:54:43

until the public beta, because for the

1:54:45

public beta, it's a little bit

1:54:48

more cleaned up. It still is going to

1:54:50

have bugs, but there won't be as many,

1:54:52

and especially not show-stopping bugs. And with Apple

1:54:54

redesigning, in theory, according to people familiar with

1:54:56

the matter, maybe it is gonna change. Springboard,

1:54:58

at the very, like that is, that may

1:55:00

crash a lot. At the official level of

1:55:02

iOS, yeah, that's going to cause some issues.

1:55:04

Yeah, that's a good point. You don't want

1:55:07

your front page to be crashing all the

1:55:09

time. It's connected to so much, too, in the

1:55:11

system. And then there have been in the past bugs

1:55:13

where you'd be on a phone call and it

1:55:15

hangs up. Hangs up, your cellular tower, cellular

1:55:17

radio stops working, all sorts

1:55:20

of stuff, so. I

1:55:23

understand your enthusiasm. I

1:55:26

shared that enthusiasm, but I no longer do.

1:55:28

I don't even do the public beta anymore.

1:55:31

I just wait, I let you guys do it.

1:55:33

I used to convince other people to do the

1:55:35

public beta. I stopped doing that, but I still

1:55:37

do the beta. Jason Snell will do it. Micah

1:55:40

will do it. Just reality-share to it.

1:55:42

Jason's the guy to- Listen

1:55:44

to Jason. Well, Leo, another thing, real

1:55:47

quick, because I know we're

1:55:49

running short on time and all that, but Leo, the

1:55:52

Mac OS is one of the things I wanted

1:55:54

to touch on. Now,

1:55:56

the beta will probably be like,

1:56:00

Honestly, Downing is going to be Intel

1:56:02

compatible. What do you think? The

1:56:05

beta will be. Oh, will this be

1:56:07

the time that Apple says, doing Intel?

1:56:09

No Intel. I mean, they don't have

1:56:11

any Intel machines. So what did they

1:56:13

say? I think it's I don't think

1:56:16

it'll. I mean, I

1:56:18

don't remember what they said, but I think