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dreams. We know what it

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takes to care for Western New Yorkers, because

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that's who we are. Our home

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and our focus are too. Visit

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univerahealthcare.com and see why you can always

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count on us to be right here

0:28

for you. I

0:35

don't think people are taking time off work to hit

0:38

these things. You

0:40

sent me some video of you dancing around the kitchen.

0:42

It was amazing. Using any white drunk

0:44

college kid can dance to. I'll just stick

0:46

with the A.I. stuff. That's Rowan said that,

0:48

not me. My math teacher, like,

0:51

she doesn't explain it that

0:53

well. Well, that's the hallucination, right?

0:55

That's like AI hallucination. We have lives

0:57

too. Mother Shipton's cave.

1:00

Rich Haddam is coming. Jim

1:02

Harold is coming. I'm

1:04

doing a lot of laughing, is it? Uh-huh.

1:06

Right? Astonishing

1:10

Legends. We'd like to thank Cook Unity, our

1:13

contributors at patreon.com, and you, our

1:15

listeners, for making tonight's show possible.

1:20

Hello, everyone. Merry Christmas and happy

1:22

holidays from everyone at Astonishing Legends.

1:25

Tonight, we are thrilled to bring

1:27

back the Astonishing Legends All-Star Holiday

1:29

Special for the fourth year in

1:31

a row. Yes, we are. We've

1:34

got a great lineup this year with several

1:36

returning powerhouse podcasters and a few new faces

1:38

in the crowd. Yeah, well, we actually recorded

1:40

this live a week or two ago and

1:42

streamed it to our patrons when we did.

1:45

And in fact, the uncensored,

1:47

unedited video version of it

1:50

is still available to watch

1:52

at patreon.com/Astonishing Legends. So

1:54

if you are a patron, you can find it there.

1:56

And if you're not, now is the time to sign

1:58

up so you can access... cool stuff like that

2:01

and the astonishing junk drawer. Yes, and we're sort

2:03

of combining our cold open and housekeeping for tonight,

2:05

so we'll just get a few quick announcements out

2:07

of the way. The first one being that this

2:09

is our last new show of 2023. We generally

2:11

shut down for about three

2:13

weeks this time of year, but this year I'm going

2:16

to post at least one of the older junk drawers

2:18

from Patreon to our main feed, and maybe two so

2:20

we can keep you company between Christmas and New Year's

2:22

if you're so inclined. But there will not be any

2:24

new junk drawers on Patreon until we come back from

2:26

the holiday break with our first show of the new

2:28

year on January 13th, 2024. 2024.

2:33

Weird wild stuff. Tempest Fuggett.

2:35

Or is that Tempe Smog? That's Puget.

2:37

Well, that's the way. Folks, we have

2:39

an amazing show tonight, and the reason

2:41

it's amazing is because of our wonderful

2:44

friends and paranormal podcasting compatriots, so we'd

2:46

like to take a minute right now

2:48

to thank them so much for making

2:50

the time to join us and make

2:52

this special possible. Firstly, we're

2:55

welcoming back our returning guests in

2:57

alphabetical order, Paul Gladhill, Micah Hanks,

3:00

Jim Harold, Richard Haddam, and Allison Jordan.

3:02

And introducing the host of the new

3:04

Astonishing Legends Network podcast, Scared All the

3:06

Time, Ed Vaccola and Chris Gullari. Some

3:08

of you will know Ed as the

3:10

mechanic and our behind the scenes technical

3:13

director on StreamYard for the junk drawers

3:15

we do on Patreon. Yes, and stay

3:17

tuned at the end of the show

3:19

for a special after party toast with

3:21

Miranda from the Midnight Library, the guys

3:23

from Scared All the Time and our

3:25

right hand woman, Tess Weibel. Okay, let's

3:27

kick this off. Welcome

3:43

back to Astonishing Legends. I'm Scott Philbrook,

3:45

and this is Forest Berches. A friend

3:47

is someone who gives you total freedom

3:49

to be yourself. Jim Morrison.

3:51

Oh, that's a good impression. Join us

3:54

tonight for the Astonishing Legends All-Star Holiday

3:56

Special Four. Hey

4:16

everybody, welcome to the Astonishing

4:18

Legends All Star Holiday Special

4:20

number four. Thank

4:22

you for joining us tonight. So

4:24

happy holidays and everybody knows this

4:26

guy over here, Forrest, say hello.

4:29

Hello, Scott. Good to see you

4:31

again. Once again, we

4:34

were determined to make into a tradition

4:36

and we've just forced it on everybody.

4:38

So we hope you enjoy it. We're excited to be

4:41

doing this. We have a really great group of people

4:43

with us tonight in no specific

4:45

order. I'm going to start welcoming people here just

4:47

for the sake of welcoming them. Richard

4:49

Haddam, he's one of our most highest

4:52

number of returning guests and also the

4:55

drinkinist one. Rich, thank you. Don't forget to unmute

4:57

your mic. Did you say I'm your

4:59

highest guest? Yeah, that's what I said. So

5:04

far, I've been to these parties you guys throw. They're

5:07

crazy. Anything can happen. You're

5:10

the George Goble or Tiny Tim of

5:12

the talk show recurring circuit. So

5:14

one of those. Yeah, I'd love to have you on.

5:16

Yes. Thank you for joining us.

5:19

I would also like to welcome back. This

5:21

is her second time on the show. It's

5:23

going to be Alison Joynland. Alison, welcome back

5:25

for the holiday special. Great to see you.

5:27

Happy holidays. Hey, Alison. Happy holidays. So good

5:29

to see you. Can we make you a

5:31

drink? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

5:34

Not alcoholic though. Okay,

5:36

let me go whip up a diet cherry Coke. Coming

5:39

right up. All right, folks. I'd

5:41

also like to welcome Mr. Micah

5:43

Hanks to the show and also

5:46

Jim Harold. I wanted to bring

5:48

them out at pretty close to the same time just

5:50

to avoid any. Look, I brought a friend

5:53

with me. My

5:55

very favorite people and best friends, in fact,

5:57

and the only guy that I would. mitt

6:00

sounds better than I do on the microphone.

6:02

Jim, I don't think so. I don't think

6:04

so. Yeah. Hey, Christmas buddy. Good to be

6:06

here. Honored to always be invited. I look

6:08

forward to this each and every year. Indeed.

6:10

Likewise. We are so glad to have both

6:13

of you guys back. I would like to

6:15

welcome again, returning again, Mr. Glitters from the

6:17

UK, where it's like three

6:19

in the morning. Thank you for joining us,

6:21

Glenn. We appreciate it. Seasons, greetings. Thank you

6:24

very much. Welcome back. And then I would

6:26

also like to welcome the mechanic, Ed, who has

6:28

been our technical director. A lot of you guys

6:30

will recognize him. And the co-host

6:32

of his new show, Scared All The Time, Chris

6:34

Culare. Chris, welcome. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me.

6:37

Yeah. Thanks for coming. So now we got everybody

6:39

here. The first thing I want to say is

6:41

happy holidays. And I forgot to say this before

6:43

we started. Any of you that are recording locally,

6:45

if you haven't started already, please start recording. So

6:48

just so Sarah has a backup. And if you're

6:50

not, don't worry about it, Rich. I know you

6:52

don't know how to do that. Thank you. My

6:55

land is being put at the podcast kids table. Well,

7:01

yeah, exactly. This is the foul-mouthed kids table. I'll watch

7:03

my language. Don't worry, guys. It's all right. It's all

7:05

right. You know what? I would prefer to be at

7:07

the kids table. That's where all the cool stuff happens.

7:12

Well, so Scared All The Time, you guys. Ed, Chris,

7:14

that show. How many episodes have you got out now?

7:17

Six. Six? Yeah. Seven will

7:19

be next week. Okay. How

7:21

do you like working all the time on

7:24

podcasting? Podcasting's easy,

7:26

right? It certainly isn't.

7:29

Not if you want it to be good. Not if you

7:31

want it to be good. It's funny. When Ed first started

7:33

talking about doing it, and he came to me, and we

7:35

were talking about what would we want to do and what

7:37

would the topics be and everything, there

7:39

was a great split in podcasting that

7:41

I'd never really thought of before. And

7:44

it took us probably three or four

7:46

arguments to, not arguments, but to figure

7:48

out that I only listen

7:50

to podcasts where people sit around and

7:52

kind of just like riff, and there's

7:54

not a lot of research or anything,

7:56

and Ed really only listens to podcasts

7:59

to learn. kind of like like

8:01

astonishing legends and so for

8:03

a long time and was like well it seems like you

8:05

don't really want to do too much research and I was

8:08

like what do you mean research it's a podcast now I'm

8:10

writing 30 pages a week but it's fun

8:15

and you've learned the biggest lesson out of all

8:17

this is that you should have stuck to your

8:19

idea and not have to do 30 pages of

8:22

research yeah that's the lesson that

8:24

Scott and I regret the most yeah why aren't we

8:26

just drinking beer and talking about movies we didn't like

8:28

exactly we all messed up here guys your ass is

8:30

showing some way you've messed up if you're on this

8:33

we all work through

8:35

hard it's been fun it's all topics

8:37

that we've been referring to it is

8:39

like astonishing legends after dark so it's

8:41

sort of like a loser they're swearing

8:43

it's a little bit more of like

8:46

a mix of information and

8:48

comedy and we're

8:50

not just doing phobias although we're gonna cover

8:52

some of those but it's anything that scares

8:55

us or seems to scare other people we

8:57

kind of do a little bit of the

8:59

history of the topic and then Ed invented

9:01

something called the fear tier at the end

9:04

of each episode we rank these things on

9:06

a scale of how much they frighten us

9:08

and how afraid we are of something

9:11

bad happening if we encounter them so what is

9:13

your benchmark for fear why don't you go ahead

9:16

with that one I don't think that's okay for

9:18

the Christmas though oh it's okay I think we

9:20

all need to hear it holiday

9:23

theme spooky ghost stories come on yeah

9:25

put the kids away now

9:28

it's it's a scale is and this

9:30

is embarrassing turning red the scale

9:33

is from one being the least scary to

9:35

hot being

9:37

the most scary and it

9:39

is I feel mad at rich right

9:42

now and it is because I read

9:44

a story of a woman in LA who

9:46

a home was first aid through

9:49

a bucket of hot donner and to this day

9:51

I can't I think about it like once a week so

9:53

if to me that's like top level like

9:55

I don't that's my word sphere currently at

9:57

the moment But

10:01

that's real human. That's a human fear. You guys,

10:03

I mean, you know, if you're gonna say, oh,

10:05

I'm afraid of ghosts. Come on. I personally have

10:07

a problem with the fact that it was described

10:09

as hot. Like to me, that was why it

10:11

sticks around. But literally, yes, that is

10:13

what we do. And we have a lot of

10:16

freedom. Our podcast overlords that are Scott and Forrest

10:18

who put us on these last string legends network.

10:20

They pretty much just let us do what we

10:22

want, which is nice. Those of us

10:24

who've had brushes with Los Angeles and

10:27

the things that go on there have learned how annoying

10:29

notes can be. So my whole thing is like, screw

10:31

the notes. Let's just do it and see if people

10:33

like it. Scott, what do I call the episodes I

10:35

send you? Yeah, he says, I've always like, Ed, just

10:37

before you hit publish, I

10:39

just would like to hear it before you hit publish.

10:41

And he calls it a courtesy cut. He's like, this

10:43

is going up in an hour or two. I don't

10:45

have time to change anything. So he gives, he sends

10:47

me the courtesy cut. That's a courtesy lesson. But

10:50

yeah, no, it's nice to be here. Thanks everyone for including

10:52

us this year. I really enjoyed the last episode,

10:54

particularly about the cosmonaut who was tapping

10:57

SOS as he faded out into infinity

10:59

of space. Yeah, that was a fun

11:01

one. One of the scariest things

11:03

I was like, the episode is

11:05

about dying in space. And that

11:08

was the incident that inspired it

11:10

was the story of the Russian

11:12

cosmonauts that were recorded trying to

11:14

contact Earth as they just apparently

11:17

floated out into nowhere. So the

11:19

people dying in space, is this

11:21

your holiday episode? And

11:25

now for a cheery thought for the holiday season.

11:28

We haven't thought of a holiday episode yet. Although

11:30

every year where I'm from Christmas tree fires or

11:32

a big thing. So maybe we'll do something about

11:34

like, like shotty electricity.

11:38

Maybe a whole family dying would be ideal. Yeah,

11:40

I think if we can find one. Already

11:43

turned the corner. A

11:45

family elimination crime. I'm really involving small children and

11:47

pets. Every year people ask us to cover the

11:49

solder children. And I'm like, I can't, that story

11:51

is too dark. I can't do it. Like, but

11:54

that happened at Christmas, didn't it? All right. Well,

11:56

if we do it, Scott, we'll say it was

11:58

your idea. Merry Christmas. Yeah,

12:00

wait, but didn't you enforce do a thing

12:02

about a house up in Los Feliz that

12:04

was like abandoned But it still had the

12:06

Christmas decorations up and they were untouched for

12:08

week. Was that a joke joy though? I

12:10

don't think that was a main show We've

12:12

never formally done a show in fact, that's

12:14

been like maybe four years ago and I

12:16

still have a tab open for it What

12:20

intrigued me about the story, of course people

12:22

are bludgeoned all the time here in LA

12:25

That's a new podcast also bludgeoned all the

12:27

time Hot

12:30

bucket of leavings is the other been

12:33

off title for them but the idea

12:35

that intrigued me because of this fact

12:38

was that there is a

12:40

house in Los Feliz in this neighborhood

12:42

area and this did

12:44

happened just before Christmas where a

12:48

prominent doctor seemed to have

12:50

some come to pressure and other let's

12:53

say existential external perhaps spiritual

12:56

forces and Ended

12:58

up trying to murder his family

13:00

and himself and being

13:03

around Christmas time Very, you

13:05

know after of course this happened the eldest daughter. She

13:07

was able to escape. She got hit on the head

13:09

she ran to a neighbor's house, so she survived and

13:12

He didn't go after her own father

13:14

But he did in just some poison

13:17

and of course you got to leave the Bible

13:19

open to a very telling passage Everyone

13:22

does Well, yeah, just you

13:24

gotta get something afterwards just eat that you don't

13:26

want it a clean exit So they all passed

13:28

away She of course went off to live with

13:30

other relatives and that house

13:32

was essentially sealed up I mean, of course

13:34

it was investigated But they just kind of closed

13:37

it up and as this was all unfolding and

13:39

now who owns the house and where does it

13:41

go? To who's gonna buy it? There

13:43

was a stack of Christmas presents that were

13:45

on the table for maybe 40

13:47

50 years That

13:49

was part of it and then they never touched

13:52

them Well, here's what I would do is go

13:54

through them of course and just anything unbox start

13:56

to put it on eBay with his comic book

13:58

collection Package

14:00

kind of things, which is kind of

14:02

worded, but ritual Know this. The.

14:05

Owner of Rockaway Records I believe

14:07

there was an older couple. They

14:09

did a buying their house. Eventual.

14:12

I think sometimes and the A in

14:14

the eighties or nineties Rockaway Record was

14:16

A is a very famous east side

14:18

used record store. Very cool place. uses

14:20

them where they bought it in basically.

14:22

The other weird thing is that the

14:24

weirdest didn't stop. They bought a house,

14:26

kept it for about another twenty years

14:28

and never did anything with it. It.

14:30

Was at the very basic things like keep the

14:33

weeds down and then they gave it to their

14:35

son. As. He inherited the house

14:37

and and had it for you know, another ten

14:39

years and he never did anything with it. but

14:41

now it's been redone right there. Somebody live in

14:44

in and now I believe it's been purchased. A

14:46

spin on the mark mean they never gave it

14:48

up and they never want to sell it. They

14:50

also never was doing with it. People have broken

14:52

in and try to do their own. Goes to

14:55

be no legend tripping and ghost investigations and it's

14:57

very hard and of course and then there is

14:59

a great story. The L A Weekly. Somebody had

15:01

the stuck in. The. Very first thing

15:03

happen to them as that they got bit

15:05

by a black widow spider and then there

15:08

was a cascade and add series of of

15:10

of which is weird events that happen to

15:12

them so yes is very hot place very

15:14

cool house there is a dance floor or

15:16

like a ballroom on the third level. it's

15:19

is quite unusual house and at a bit

15:21

of local lore years anyway that's the story

15:23

and yes habit around christmas but to me

15:25

eventually those presents went somewhere it's like can

15:27

imagine getting. A present from

15:29

like the fifties. With. the christmas wrapping

15:32

unopened ice want to know what they were

15:34

dogs littler don't something though perhaps are harmless

15:36

to the system for have a say so

15:38

but yeah we go any further just quickly

15:40

i know you got everybody's met at christmas

15:42

is for people that haven't heard or seen

15:44

that before let's get roman ago brady bunch

15:46

style here micah wanna shoot are tell her

15:48

listeners a little bit about your background what

15:51

you're up to these days and where they

15:53

can find you on line if they're interested

15:55

certainly yeah i'm pretty easy to find online

15:57

right here at the debrief.org and also micah

15:59

hanks Just look for mica hanks online. I'm

16:01

on x or whatever you call that these days used

16:03

to be twitter folks back in my

16:05

day Yes, but mica hanks.com

16:07

also is the website where you can keep up

16:10

with me and all of my fun things and

16:12

see the cave Photograph that yeah has

16:14

been an item of discussion recently undisclosed

16:17

cave Actually that cave it is

16:19

undisclosed some have probably seen that

16:21

cave in a film series called

16:23

hell You're yes, but yes, what

16:25

I'm probably best known for these

16:27

days is writing and reporting on

16:29

science technology And of course

16:32

now what the Department of Defense calls unidentified

16:34

anomalous phenomena The artist is formerly known as

16:36

UFOs and it's been quite a momentous year

16:38

for that So I'm sure we'll get into

16:40

some more discussion about the UFO issue What's

16:42

been happening on Capitol Hill and

16:45

all various other sundry things here in just a bit

16:47

That's a little about me and who I am and

16:49

now about who my daddy is and what he does,

16:51

right? Is that how this goes? It's

16:57

awesome, I love your website. I love the debrief. It's broke a lot

16:59

of pretty Groundbreaking

17:01

news this in the past year or so. It's been

17:03

amazing and it's a two stories. Yeah Yeah,

17:05

it's a great place to start your day. If you're into

17:08

that stuff folks and Allison

17:10

how about welcome back? Thanks for coming back Why

17:12

don't you tell folks a little bit

17:14

about your background glad to be back. Thanks for

17:16

inviting me. I always look forward to this I

17:21

Am just here to pick mica's brain But I

17:26

am a professional weirdo. I write

17:29

ghost stories for a living for american ghost walks.com We

17:32

have tours Haunted

17:35

history tours in seven states and

17:37

Puerto Rico now and

17:39

so i'm just busy myself researching

17:41

different locations finding

17:44

ghost stories that aren't so well

17:46

known and Putting them

17:49

together for entertaining and educational tours

17:51

Well, and you have a pretty

17:53

interesting experience this year, which I want to

17:55

talk to you about here in a little

17:57

bit Your trip on the television. Uh, mr.

17:59

Haddam I think most folks know you who've been

18:01

listening to the show for a while. What are you up to these

18:03

days? You know, it was

18:06

cool back when I could say I was on strike. Now

18:12

I'm just unemployed. So

18:16

you're currently between gigs. Between gigs. Yeah. It's been

18:18

a weird year. We'll figure out what's next. 2024

18:20

should be big. So

18:23

we'll, uh, we'll, I'm putting all my money on

18:25

2024. So

18:28

are we, hopefully. And so Mr. Jim Harold,

18:30

how many, what do you got? 14, 15 podcasts now. What's

18:33

going on over there? Yeah, a bunch, but mainly

18:35

what I'm known for is Jim Harold's campfire, which

18:37

are true ghost stories, real people calling. And that's

18:39

what most people like, no matter what I try

18:41

to do, that's what they like. So I'm going

18:43

with it. And then I've had a

18:45

show for a little while called the paranormal podcast. I've

18:47

been doing it since 2005. And

18:50

those are the main things that take most of

18:52

my time and then some side projects and just

18:54

an honor to be here, guys. I would look

18:56

forward to this every year. It's almost like

18:58

the decorating of the Christmas tree. It

19:01

is an annual tradition. So thank you for

19:03

making me a part of it. Well, thank

19:05

you for coming, man. We really appreciate your

19:07

coming back. We're honored by your presence. As

19:09

we've often said, you were the person that

19:11

inspired for us tonight to get started. So

19:13

we're, we would like to thank you. Thank

19:15

you very much. Yes. And now Mr. Glaaters,

19:17

who again is staying up all night just

19:19

to chime in what's going on over there

19:21

across the pond. It's 2 AM over here.

19:23

It's all well, it is tomorrow now. Yeah.

19:25

So I woke up about an hour ago

19:27

and I've got a nice breakfast beer just

19:29

to get me going. Right. So what's going

19:32

on? Okay. After a lot

19:34

of hard work, I managed to get

19:36

an episode out this year for

19:39

my podcast, which is called Anomaly. But yeah,

19:41

it's been a really, really busy year. And

19:43

I was thinking about sort of referring to

19:45

the same stuff as Micah was going to

19:47

talk about to do with Grush and everybody

19:50

else, but I'm not going to steal your

19:52

fire there, Micah. For me

19:54

this year, I'm just finishing off my masters

19:56

and I've decided that I'm going to pull

19:58

the trigger on doing my best. doctor

20:00

as well. Wow. So

20:02

yeah, Dr. G. And last month I was

20:05

elected as national coordinator

20:11

for UAP investigations for

20:13

ASAP. So it's the

20:15

Association for the Scientific

20:17

Study of Anomalous Phenomenomnomnom.

20:20

Wow, that's pretty cool.

20:22

Yeah, congratulations. How

20:25

long has ASAP been around? ASAP has been

20:27

around, I'm gonna say since the 1700s. No,

20:29

I think it's only about 1981 or something, but it

20:34

is a learned society and I

20:36

really like the sound of that.

20:38

Is that an investigation into? Yeah,

20:40

we do investigations, we do academic

20:42

work. I've done none of that

20:44

yet because I'm just new in

20:46

post, but it feels amazing. So

20:48

about the master's and the doctorate,

20:51

what fields are those gonna be

20:53

in? Psychotherapy. Psychotherapy, all right. So

20:55

I'm gonna be focusing on the

20:57

mental health of veterans and blue

20:59

light responders. Oh, PTSD. That's

21:02

really cool. What about the rest of us? Do you

21:04

have Tuesday afternoon? No, you can go to Hill. This

21:06

group, I think, we could keep you busy. I don't

21:08

know for sure. Chris,

21:13

how about you? What's your day job? I

21:15

know a little bit about your background, but

21:17

you're a writer as well, right? Yeah, it

21:19

was a lot cooler when we could say

21:22

we were on strike. I'm also putting all

21:24

my money on 2024 because I got

21:28

my foot at the door in 2014 right as

21:30

the streamers were starting. So

21:32

I have never known a

21:34

world without streamers mucking up

21:36

the system and it

21:39

was really frustrating when I realized that I

21:41

was selling shows every year. I was making

21:43

stuff. I have a writing partner, but even

21:45

that wasn't enough to really make like a

21:47

living at it. So when we went

21:49

on strike, I was one of the many people who was like,

21:52

yeah, we're either going on strike or this whole

21:54

industry is going away because at

21:56

least the younger generation is having an

21:59

impossible time. I was blessed

22:01

to sell something every year. I

22:03

couldn't imagine doing more than that and

22:06

feeling like I couldn't keep my head

22:08

above water was not great. But yeah,

22:10

it's been exciting even since the

22:13

strike ended, things seem like they've picked back

22:15

up and I've got some hopefully big projects

22:18

that'll maybe happen next year. But as Richard well

22:20

knows, I mean that's, you can't

22:22

count your chickens even after they hatch

22:24

half the time. Right. They're

22:27

born sickly. There's an old saying, don't

22:29

count your chickens until they clear. Yeah,

22:32

yeah, yeah. So we'll see,

22:34

but writing is usually, in some form

22:36

writing is the day job, yeah. Right,

22:39

and so you decided to make extra

22:41

money, you're gonna get into podcasting. No.

22:46

When the podcast came up, we

22:48

were still on strike and we had no

22:50

idea how long we were gonna be on

22:52

strike. And so of course the week that

22:54

we like recorded the first episode, I think

22:56

the strike ended. Right, right. It became a

22:58

lot more work, but it is

23:01

interesting for me, like I listened

23:03

to a good number of podcasts and I've never

23:05

kept track of how much that cuts into my

23:07

movie or TV watching time, but there's

23:10

definitely a shift. And so

23:12

I worked with Ed on a horror Christmas

23:14

show that I ran for YouTube in 2016

23:16

called 12 Deadly Days that

23:19

we did with Blumhouse. And Ed and I

23:21

did that together and I made a movie

23:24

that came out last year. And

23:26

of all the things that I've done,

23:28

this podcast, Scared All The Time, has

23:30

by far gotten the most attention and

23:33

had the most love given to it. And as

23:35

someone who's always wanted to be a filmmaker, that's

23:38

been an interesting twist in

23:40

the story of, oh, this is where the

23:42

audience is. The audience is not

23:45

necessarily looking for an indie movie that came

23:47

out this week. The audience is like looking

23:49

for podcasts and obviously launching on your guys'

23:51

network has been a huge piece of that.

23:53

And we thank you guys so much for

23:56

giving us that rocket boost, but really it's

23:58

been a really wild journey. You

24:00

know, here's the thing, people, you

24:02

know, the geniuses, you know, running

24:04

everything, think that it's

24:06

a zero sum game of, well, if you're

24:08

listening to a podcast, you're not watching TV

24:10

and we're all fighting for a seat at

24:12

the table. And that's, it's an

24:15

infinite table. The people who are consuming

24:17

are consuming everything. They're consuming, you these

24:19

and TV shows and podcasts and music

24:22

and everything. And they're consuming audio

24:24

podcasts, sometimes at a time

24:27

that would not be convenient to watch video.

24:29

That's right. True. And now it really is

24:32

dealer's choice. I mean, you're just, you're, you're

24:34

listening to the podcasts when you want seeing

24:36

the movies, when you want watching television, when

24:38

you want. And I think younger people, this

24:41

is their whole life. They're not

24:43

excited about going out into the

24:45

world. They're excited about the world

24:48

they curate for themselves through

24:50

the entertainment that they consume and they

24:52

do it passionately. And at

24:55

a certain point, advertisers will get

24:57

even better at figuring out who is

24:59

choosing what, because the people who listen

25:01

to stuff, they've listened to astonishing legends

25:03

and Jim's show and now scared all

25:05

the time. These are very

25:08

engaged listeners. These are not passive, you

25:10

know, you don't just, you're not flipping

25:12

channels. You're going, I want to hear

25:14

that. And I'm listening to it. I'm

25:17

always so hopeful because as depressing as

25:19

things are, the product is

25:22

still desired. Yeah. Everyone around the world

25:24

wants in terms of TV, they want

25:26

one hour storytelling and half hour comedies.

25:28

They want that more than anything. And

25:30

they want a hundred of them. They

25:32

don't want eight. They want a hundred

25:34

or 200 and podcasts. They

25:37

don't want one episode. They want

25:39

500 episodes and, well, you just

25:41

got 499 to go. Come on. I've got 26.

25:52

A hundred if anybody wants them. There you go. Yeah. You either started in

25:54

2005 like Jim, or as

25:58

every podcaster here and producer. producer of

26:00

media will tell you it's very difficult to

26:02

start one even harder to keep it going.

26:05

And so my head, Scott and I are

26:07

hats off to everyone here who's at

26:09

least done something and kept going, no

26:12

matter if that's writing or just creating,

26:14

it's very rewarding, but very challenging. And

26:16

it's hard to do when

26:18

you could just do other stuff to pay the

26:20

rent, you're also taking a risk. And, but

26:23

the rewards are great. And especially

26:25

when people tell you that

26:27

they very much enjoyed what you create.

26:30

So hopefully that'll keep Chris

26:32

and Ed going for many, many years

26:34

until we need them to work on our stuff. And then

26:36

of course they have to drive. I don't think I have

26:38

any other ways to pay the rent anymore. I think what

26:41

I used to do is you've got

26:43

to burn all the shifts and his bridges.

26:46

I feel the same way. It's like I could not,

26:48

I am an unemployable. Yeah. For the last 12 years

26:52

full time. I've sat in

26:55

a room and talked about Bigfoot

26:57

and UF. What about you? As

26:59

you should, sir. As you should. But

27:01

the point is, is that forced and

27:03

Scott, congratulations for working with Ed and

27:06

Chris and smart, newer

27:08

minds. And, you know,

27:10

I just, I applaud what you've done.

27:12

And I hope that and Chris, I think they're going

27:14

to have all the success with it partially

27:17

because of your own talent and partially because

27:19

of the backing of you guys. So congratulations.

27:21

Thanks, man. Thank you. Yeah. They

27:23

clearly seem to have excellent taste. Ed,

27:27

speaking of excellent taste, what is that

27:29

wine you're, how shall

27:31

I say, guzzling? I am not. This is

27:33

day two of guzzling, Chris. It

27:36

is a Trader Joe's exclusive. Two

27:40

bucks, chat. It is a Cote de Rone. There

27:43

you go. Toblerone. It's

27:46

a Toblerone. They've just, they've just blended

27:48

Toblerones and grapes, slammed them

27:50

into a bottle, deemed it a wine. No,

27:53

it's a Laurent de Blanc Cote de

27:55

Rone and a bunch of French,

27:57

but it's delicious. But I brought a second.

28:00

I'm a model to the office with me. So

28:02

I anticipate, you know, because it's already

28:04

open last night, guys. I'll finish this and then

28:06

I'll start the second. Well, it survived the night

28:08

at least. So that's a... Yeah, it survived the

28:10

night. Ed, do people know your background as a

28:13

writer as well? I mean, most people know me

28:15

as a mechanic, but I'm also a writer. Yes.

28:18

I've written for live action and animation.

28:20

Yeah. I've written on live action like The

28:22

Last Man on Earth. There for a long time,

28:24

I've written on animation like Rick and Morty and

28:27

the show Bless the Hearts and

28:30

Clone High and then

28:32

variety stuff like the movie awards and

28:34

crap like that. So yeah, I mean, I also

28:36

love having the strike as an excuse, but

28:39

also love having the podcast now to

28:41

bury me in work. Like truly bury

28:43

me in work. Yeah.

28:46

And I am developing a show with someone else

28:48

from the DC universe that Rich may

28:50

or may not know, but from the like not

28:53

HBO, the Berlanti verse, whatever, but it is...

28:56

So I'm staying busy with like a

28:58

bunch of projects and the podcast is

29:00

overwhelmingly, it keeps me so busy.

29:02

I could not believe the level of work. Producing

29:04

good, what I think to be like at a

29:06

level that I'm happy with podcasting

29:09

is, my hat is off

29:11

to all of you guys who have been doing this.

29:13

It's so nuts. It's so satisfying, right? It's so

29:15

satisfying. Not the first day when we finish recording

29:18

and I'm like, this is the, we're the worst.

29:20

We are the worst. But isn't

29:22

it nice at the end of the day, you'd

29:24

have somebody with like Scott was talking about before

29:26

with notes. Yeah. Isn't

29:28

that kind of nice? Well, the nice thing is, yeah, I do

29:31

give them no opportunity to give notes. And

29:33

like I said, I'm like, here's the thing.

29:35

It's releasing in 10 minutes. That's luck. But

29:37

no, it is nice to have my own

29:40

control, no notes, no boss.

29:42

It's pretty good. But it's also sink or swim,

29:44

you know, cause you do feel like everything we've

29:46

put out is, it's

29:48

up to us to also fail, you know? But

29:50

we do have, like I said, great stewards in

29:52

the Sinishing Legend. I did get to mark that

29:54

13 second gap of silence in the

29:56

last one, before it went up. It was a very public

29:58

and very. for me. It was

30:01

an artistic choice. It's like Paul Harvey

30:03

is a...you guys are too young to

30:05

remember Paul Harvey. Oh, I remember Paul.

30:09

Now for news. And

30:11

now you know the rest of

30:13

the story. Oh my God. I love that

30:15

guy. He needs a big long pause. He

30:17

would pause a long time, yes. So that's

30:19

what it was at. It was not a

30:21

mistake. It was an artistic choice. It was

30:23

an audio vision board where if I leave

30:25

space for advertisers, maybe they'll show up. The

30:30

secret. There it is. And also

30:32

there is no air I leave. I cut

30:34

every omenade of me and Chris, so it's

30:36

like I leave no air, so

30:38

a gap is pretty unusual. I think

30:40

we're all cursed now. I'm going to be Paul Harvey

30:43

the whole rest of the night. If I were the devil,

30:45

that's probably what I would do. You

30:51

know what I've really missed since moving away from Los Angeles?

30:53

In fact, it might be one of the

30:56

only things besides you that I miss about

30:58

LA. All right, what's that? Well,

31:00

I was daydreaming about rigatoni the other day,

31:02

and I used to love to get that

31:04

at this restaurant in North Hollywood called Cadell Sol.

31:06

It was so good. And I was like,

31:08

I wonder if I can make that since I

31:10

can't get that around here in Greensboro. And

31:13

I found a recipe, but it's like 40 minutes

31:15

to prepare, which if that's the official time in the

31:17

recipe, it means an hour and a half for me.

31:19

Well, I know that place. It's delicious. And I get

31:22

why you miss it. But I have found

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31:41

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31:44

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31:47

It is. And there's so many world-class chefs

31:49

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31:51

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32:00

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32:03

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32:05

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32:07

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32:09

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32:11

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32:14

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32:33

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32:36

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34:14

at this time of year, we often donate

34:16

a commercial to charity and this year we've

34:18

chosen one of my personal favorites, Habitat for

34:20

Humanity. Habitat for Humanity has been around since

34:22

the early 70s, building decent,

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At Habitat, they like to say, give a hand up, not

35:00

a hand out. And right now they're doing a 2023 year

35:02

end challenge, which

35:05

is inspired by a $3 million gift

35:07

from Lowe's. If you give before December

35:09

31st, your donation will double

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in impact. They're setting a goal to turn

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that 3 million into 6 million. They have

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options for monthly gifts or single gifts and

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they are a 501c3

35:19

nonprofit organization, meaning your gift is

35:22

tax deductible as allowed by law.

35:24

Astonishing Legends has donated $500 this

35:26

year and we're asking you

35:28

if you can swing it to make a donation before

35:30

December 31st too. You

35:32

can donate online by going to habitat.org

35:36

and clicking on the 2023 year end challenge or

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simply give them a call at 1-800-HABITAT. That's

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people in need get affordable quality housing.

35:49

Visit habitat.org and click on the 2023

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year end challenge or

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call 1-800-HABITAT. That's

35:56

1-800-422-28. And

36:00

folks, if you're hearing this after the end of the year,

36:03

you can still make a donation anytime. Hi,

36:08

I'm Maxie, and you're listening to

36:10

Astonishing Legends with Scott Philbrook and

36:12

Forrest Burgess. Now, back to

36:14

the show. I

36:19

know we're probably going to have a lot of discussion about

36:21

it's been a busy year for UAP and stuff like that,

36:23

but before we get to that, I wanted

36:25

to talk briefly to Allison because

36:28

she and her brother had kind

36:31

of an exciting adventure this year. Would you

36:33

tell the listeners what happened to you guys

36:35

with your... Yeah. Yeah. Like

36:37

you said, you've got the Ghost Wash, you got towards Seven States and Puerto Rico. That's

36:40

right. It's a big operation. So what were

36:42

you up to recently with regard to that?

36:45

Yeah. Well, we were just

36:48

really enthused when Shark Tank reached

36:50

out to us. We had never

36:53

considered really having outside

36:55

investors, but it's a bit of like

36:57

when in Ghostbusters,

37:02

when Ray is asked, are

37:04

you a god? Yeah. You're

37:06

supposed to say yes. When Shark

37:08

Tank asked you to be on, you

37:11

say yes. So that's

37:13

what we did. They wanted to have

37:15

their first official Halloween

37:17

show, and so

37:20

they were looking for Halloween

37:22

type businesses. And

37:24

so they actually reached out to us, and

37:26

I can't tell you anything about the process

37:29

because... Is there an NDA on that?

37:32

Really? You can't... So now that even though

37:34

it's over and it's aired, you can't talk

37:36

about what the process is like. Yeah,

37:39

because it's kind of like Fight Club. I

37:44

think the lawyer even quoted Fight Club. Oh,

37:46

maybe I shouldn't have said that. Oh no. Uh-oh.

37:49

It's broken the NDA. violation. I

37:52

didn't see that. Did you win? Well, no.

37:55

She can't tell you. But

37:57

I can tell people now that... it's

38:00

aired. It aired on the 27th

38:02

of October, which is a little

38:04

late for us in the season,

38:06

although we do have year-round destinations

38:09

too. Yeah, we're happy for any

38:11

bump that we get. So really

38:13

winning was airing. And

38:15

what's interesting to me is how

38:18

people have this idea of

38:21

these rich and famous people. And if

38:23

you get a deal like you've made

38:25

it. And for me, I think that

38:27

would have been problematic if we had

38:29

gotten a deal. Because I think if

38:31

someone's rich and famous, you should probably

38:33

run the other way. You don't want

38:36

to know how they got that way. Just

38:40

my opinion. I love the presentation. I thought you

38:42

and your brother were great. I really enjoyed that

38:44

episode and watching it. Oh, thank you very much.

38:46

Yeah, and you can all watch it on Hulu and

38:48

see how entertaining we really are. I

38:50

haven't actually watched it yet,

38:52

though. Yeah. So it's awkward

38:55

watching something. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't

38:57

listen to our own show if I didn't have to

38:59

make sure it didn't have 15 second silence gaps in

39:02

it. So unbelievable. That's

39:04

weird, Alison. I actually only listen

39:06

to podcasts where I am the

39:09

guest. Trapped,

39:12

rich. That trapped. Yeah, yeah. Did

39:14

you feel that the sharks are a little

39:16

nicer in person than they're made out to

39:18

be on TV? Actually, no. In

39:22

the case of Kevin

39:24

O'Leary, I was really

39:27

surprised. He was really

39:29

listening. I felt like the other ones

39:31

were just yawning. We

39:34

went for a run after lunch. So I

39:36

was like, So

39:38

they're all in their carb comas? The carb

39:42

coma was like Mark Cuban is like,

39:45

I'm fine, dude. When they used

39:47

to do match game back in the 70s,

39:49

they said that they would all have like

39:52

a liquid lunch. So they would all come

39:54

back a little bit tipsy. So but maybe

39:56

that's like a bygone era,

39:58

you know? Yeah, it's seem

40:00

pretty sober. Unfortunately, but I think

40:02

I can reveal,

40:05

I don't know, we'll see that I mean,

40:07

you don't get to like hang out with

40:10

them in the green room or anything. It's

40:12

like there's your stage manager and your stage

40:14

manager just says go. And that's

40:17

what you get to do. Sure. Don't get

40:19

to like hang out and at

40:21

the water cooler with any of them or

40:23

anything like that. Yeah, so

40:25

I was really impressed with Mr.

40:27

Wonderful. He was quite wonderful to

40:29

us. And I expected from watching

40:31

the show a little bit because

40:33

I hadn't actually watched the show beforehand,

40:36

like ever. But then when they called

40:38

us, I'm like, well, I better watch

40:40

the show and see what it's like.

40:43

And you know, I thought I'd be the

40:45

most diametrically opposed to Kevin really like it

40:47

would be like Captain Kirk and the Gorn.

40:52

Wasn't anything like that. Yeah, he

40:55

really listened. And I thought

40:58

we got some good advice. May and maybe

41:00

you can't talk about that. If they told you

41:02

not to answer this question, I guess don't. But

41:04

like, I actually be curious how long your presentation

41:06

actually is versus what winds up on the air.

41:08

Yeah, I don't know. Okay. Yeah, as a former

41:10

editor, I you know, I

41:13

see stuff happening. I'm always just like, No, I

41:15

think they're you know, whatever. Plus, they're picking and

41:17

choosing their comments based on the

41:19

outcome down the road or whatever. Yeah,

41:22

I mean, part of not watching it is being

41:24

a bit of the editing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like,

41:26

Oh, you know, what is this actually going to

41:28

look like? Here's a little known fact, it turns

41:30

out that Forrest and I actually are backers of

41:32

Shark Tank. And do you have that picture of

41:35

when Shark Tank came to us for funding? So

41:38

that's when people

41:42

are listening can't see this. But it's me

41:44

and Forrest with Mr. Cuban. And, you know,

41:46

it was a very warm, inviting moment where

41:48

I think no words were actually exchanged. But

41:51

no, he did. He's very nice guy. No,

41:53

he's a very nice guy. And I will

41:55

say about him with celebrities and people who

41:58

are on the screen smaller, big they

42:00

don't have to hang out or be nice to you

42:02

at all and people

42:05

can lay fault with them but they don't

42:07

realize what it's like to be somebody like

42:09

mark cuban where everybody's coming up to you.

42:12

And trying to pitch you something like i

42:14

got a great idea and then you know

42:16

they don't. Yeah

42:18

the thing is they don't have to make

42:20

their time available to you at all he

42:23

showed up this was at podcast movement in

42:25

ashville couple of few years ago. And

42:27

he went around everybody in the room and he introduced

42:30

himself he shook her hands although it was a covid

42:32

hotbox of that type but we. delta

42:36

was like prominent at that point and we

42:39

were in this tiny like VIP room at

42:41

the back of a restaurant in ashville because

42:43

he was backing another platform one of those

42:45

live audio platforms via your. Yeah fireside fireside

42:47

and we were you know loosely associated with

42:50

that at the time and but yeah we

42:52

were all in this tiny room with him

42:54

and like 60 other people but.

42:56

But he was like i said he doesn't have to do that

42:58

and he just he made it a point to take pictures

43:00

with everybody that wanted one and shook her hand

43:02

and got to know our names and i have

43:05

friends who have. been in a

43:07

situation like that where they were supposed to interact

43:09

with a celebrity and it's like all right get

43:11

around and they get a picture like okay that's

43:13

great and then they turned literally just

43:15

walked away. And not said another

43:17

word to the person, one of my favorite stories and I

43:19

won't say who this guy was but along you know my

43:21

wife was in the ground links way back in the day

43:24

and this guy. Had a movie come out

43:26

that didn't go very far and you wouldn't remember him or

43:28

know his name but he was on the tonight show with

43:30

lenno. And as

43:33

it went to commercial lenno obviously just did not

43:35

care, it was a forced plug having him on

43:37

everything it went to commercial and lenno leaned into

43:39

this guy from the that we know and

43:42

as it was going to commercial he just went. It

43:45

wasn't real words at all i'm in. turned

43:48

around. And. The cash.

43:51

Just like okay. We found out later jay

43:54

lennon was having a stroke. yeah yeah exactly.

43:57

Man I. anyway.

44:00

I saw him at a few car shows

44:02

in LA just always that denim outfit it's

44:04

like no no thank you. I

44:06

also have a good Jay Leno story I made for

44:08

the for the strikers in us. Remember Jay Leno came

44:10

out in like day one with a box of donuts

44:13

and it was like this huge deal and then Drew

44:15

Carey bought everyone's food for the next year. Yeah. He's

44:17

a sweetheart and a champion but it

44:19

is funny

44:26

that a guy who keeps saying he hasn't quote

44:28

touched the Tonight Show money yet brought a box

44:30

of donuts. Thanks bud. Well so let's talk about

44:32

there's a lot that's happened in this past year

44:34

and one thing I know that several of us

44:36

might have some input on and interest in is

44:39

the UAP situation and the UFO situation.

44:41

There's been a lot going down there.

44:44

I haven't been able to keep

44:46

up with it anymore. I used to be able

44:48

to stay on top of this but there's so

44:50

many headlines and things coming out every day. Dave

44:52

Grush seems to be on some insane publicity tour

44:54

like I can't even watch all the media he's

44:56

creating. Mike are you staying on top of that?

44:59

Like I want to hear what everyone has to

45:01

say about where this is at right now. Also

45:03

about the Mexican aliens. They're not Mexican. They're Peruvian

45:05

and they were illegally transported to Mexico I think.

45:07

I can't speak to those

45:09

little mummies. I just know

45:12

that's kind of controversial

45:18

so I will abstain to

45:21

the men from Delaware but in other

45:23

words I mean I mean the whole Grush

45:25

thing is really more interesting in my opinion.

45:27

Now granted the backstory behind the story really

45:30

last spring I had attended

45:32

a conference in Huntsville, Rocket

45:34

City, Alabama. This was

45:37

at the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies

45:39

conference down there. Little did I know

45:41

Grush was right there in the room with us. Oh okay.

45:43

I mean he had actually been there now. There

45:45

were others who at that time they hadn't come

45:48

out. They have since and I can name some

45:50

of those individuals. Jay Stratton who was the director

45:52

of the UAP task force. Travis

45:54

Taylor of course who we all see on Skimwalker

45:57

Ranch on history and also ancient aliens and some

45:59

of these programs. There were

46:01

a lot of people, and a whole lot of scientists who

46:03

are not publicly involved in all this. At

46:05

that time, Grush was one of those people, a

46:07

former intelligence analyst. He had worked with the National

46:09

Geospatial Intelligence Agency. He had not come out publicly.

46:12

It was quite interesting to find out that he had

46:14

been sitting right there in that room as

46:17

obviously an interested party in all of this,

46:19

and someone who seemingly knew a whole lot

46:21

more than most folks in

46:23

that room with regard to what extent

46:25

the U.S. government had dealings

46:28

with this topic and the deeper history of that.

46:30

Something that, again, and I know folks like Paul

46:32

here and many of you, Jim, with many of

46:34

the interviews you've done over the years, the

46:37

same goes for you. Really, I think everyone here,

46:39

we've heard these rumors for a long time about

46:42

non-human craft, recoveries of

46:44

crashed vehicles, even biologics

46:46

and things like this. None

46:48

of that entered the public lexicon until

46:50

this year. That was a

46:52

huge development. Again, I jokingly say the debrief

46:55

has published a couple of stories, but really,

46:57

I don't think there's ever been anything as

46:59

big as back on June 5th when Leslie

47:01

Kane and Ralph Blumenthal featured in our publication

47:03

this article that brought to the world for

47:05

the first time this story of David Charles

47:07

Grush. With regard to

47:09

his current media tour, even having gone

47:11

through that vetting process, keep in mind

47:13

I'm the editor-in-chief, so I'm responsible for

47:16

overseeing all aspects of that before it

47:18

actually goes to print, so to speak, digitally

47:20

on Monday morning at 8 a.m.,

47:22

and we drop that story and try to keep the

47:25

traffic going on the servers and everything while we're being

47:27

inundated. Seeing Grush more recently

47:29

doing some of these additional interviews, especially

47:31

the recent one with Joe Rogan, has

47:34

provided additional context for

47:37

a lot of these claims in the original

47:39

debrief article, also in the interview he did

47:41

with Ross Coulthart for News Nation, excellent long-form

47:44

interview. But now that

47:46

we're seeing this kind of unscripted off-the-cuff, here's

47:48

how I did this, here's how I went about this, here's

47:50

what some of these officials said, here's what I can say,

47:52

but I can't say but really in some

47:55

total, yeah, there's been stuff about this, basically

47:57

everything we've all heard rumors about for 70

47:59

years or more. And this has

48:01

been illegally withheld from Congress and of course

48:03

withheld from the American people My

48:05

brother Caleb and I were talking about this earlier tonight If

48:08

you'd asked me about this so little as maybe a year

48:10

or two ago To what extent do

48:12

you really think the government has been withholding this kind

48:14

of information from the American public in the world? You

48:16

know, I might have said well, I mean there's probably

48:19

some truth to it, but the majority I don't

48:21

know but now with grush coming out

48:23

and talking about this I do find

48:26

him to be a sincere a credible witness his

48:28

intelligence community inspector general complaint that was

48:30

filed Which was really to me that

48:33

the real core crux of the story

48:35

from back in June That

48:37

also was deemed credible and urgent So,

48:39

I mean there are so many factors here that are

48:42

worthy of consideration, but it does seem to lend some

48:44

justification to the idea that a lot

48:46

of these stories we've heard for years

48:49

and we weren't really able to Corroborate

48:51

with any kind of facts any kind

48:53

of physical evidence. We're still sort of

48:55

at that point But to me

48:58

they've been elevated now in a way and

49:00

in a credible fashion That seems

49:02

to strongly point to the idea that if there's

49:04

this much smoke There's got to be some fire

49:07

and that's kind of where I am on all this and

49:09

I do find grush extremely credible I do

49:11

think that we have to wait and see what the

49:13

results if there are results of this ICIG Investigation

49:17

I hope that all comes forward. But

49:19

again, I mean look at what some of the results

49:21

of this have been I mean We've had congressional hearings.

49:24

We've had legislation right now. There's literally a battle going

49:26

on this moment on Capitol Hill

49:28

about all of this and it's yet

49:30

to be seen how this is all going to shake

49:32

out But I mean, it's a very extraordinary time not

49:34

just for scientists not just for lawmakers This

49:36

is an extraordinary time for humankind because if

49:38

what grushes said is true and if indeed

49:40

there is evidence of non-human Technology

49:43

here on planet earth and those

49:45

non-human intelligences have brought it here and perhaps

49:47

are operating here on this planet I

49:50

mean, this is going to be the biggest

49:52

story in humankind. Yeah in history. May

49:55

I bring up a point? Yeah, the

49:57

fact That you have people

49:59

like Mike Rogers and

50:01

Mike Turner in Congress, trying

50:03

to block this

50:05

amendment, the Schumer amendment. You

50:09

have Burchitt coming out with his own amendment. Tim

50:12

Burchitt. Isn't the fact

50:14

that some powerful people are

50:17

trying to block this legislation in and

50:20

of itself kind of disclosure without

50:22

disclosure in the sense of why

50:24

would you fight so damn hard to

50:27

block something? So what if they're just doing it

50:29

because it's the ultimate cover for new tech development

50:31

and all that kind of stuff and they want

50:33

to keep that in place for national security reasons?

50:36

I think that's what they want you to believe. Yeah. I

50:40

mean, think about this. Mike Turner right there.

50:42

Okay. In his district, you've got Wright

50:44

Patterson Air Force Base, which was the home of Project Blue Book way

50:46

back in the 1950s and 60s. Still

50:49

the longest running government study of all this,

50:51

the systematic study of UAP back in those

50:53

days, they were called UFOs. You've

50:55

got Mike Rogers down there in Alabama in

50:57

his district, Redstone Arsenal. Rogers

51:00

is the largest single recipient in Congress of

51:02

aerospace and defense funding to his campaigns. Turner's

51:04

not far behind him. In fact, there was

51:06

an article we did at the debrief the

51:08

other day where there's a nice chart from

51:10

opensecrets.org that breaks down. I think Turner was

51:12

in the top five. Rogers was at the

51:14

top of the list. The

51:16

issue to me really is this. These

51:19

guys do appear to be trying to block

51:21

this probably for partisan reasons, but

51:23

there is also, if I were to be

51:25

a conspiracy theorist, I would say that they

51:27

probably have vested interest in blocking this based

51:29

on their financial backers. That's I think what

51:32

Jim is saying. Also, you

51:34

add to that the partisan bickering where

51:36

we have Chuck Schumer, again, the Senate

51:38

Majority Leader and a Democrat who passes

51:40

a 64-page act as an amendment to

51:42

the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal

51:44

year 2024, probably the

51:47

single most significant legislation the

51:49

world has ever seen involving UAP.

51:53

You've got Republicans trying to shoot that down. Now, I'm not

51:55

being partisan here because we've also got Republicans trying to put

51:57

their own amendment in there in the House. Both

52:00

sides don't seem to be able to agree

52:02

on this. I'm thinking to myself, we've

52:04

done really well on the bipartisan front

52:06

up to this point. Are we really

52:08

going to recognize this moment, as pivotal

52:10

as it is, as the one

52:12

where we're going to start fighting bickering and we're

52:15

going to lose everything because we couldn't agree on

52:17

something? Yeah, I believe and I totally lifted this

52:19

from UFO Twitter, so credit to

52:21

them. But I saw a phrase I totally agree

52:23

with. There are people in Washington that went

52:25

Blue Book 3.0. Right.

52:28

That's what they want. They want, oh, we're

52:30

looking into this. We're looking into this. Nothing

52:33

to see here. They want to just do the same

52:35

thing that was done in the 40s and the 50s

52:38

and the 60s. And they just want

52:40

to recreate it again, just like they've

52:42

done with the JFK

52:44

assassination records. Right. They keep, oh,

52:47

we can't release this. We can't release

52:49

that because it will somehow

52:51

reveal our methods and sources from 1963.

52:53

I don't think so. Yeah.

52:57

You're hiding something. Same with

52:59

this. They want to create Blue Book 3.0.

53:02

And I agree with Micah,

53:04

there are powerful aerospace companies

53:06

and so forth that contributed

53:08

to these senators. And

53:12

they're just heating their masters. That's

53:14

what I think is going on.

53:16

And I remain somewhat pessimistic about

53:19

disclosure. And I'm more convinced ever because

53:21

of this, that there is something

53:23

to disclose. Right. I mean, Micah,

53:25

you know, from us doing the shows together, we

53:28

would go back and forth. But one

53:30

day I'm like, yeah, there's something to it. And the next day

53:32

I'd be like, I'm not sure there's something to it. I'm

53:35

absolutely sure there's something to it now, because

53:37

they're trying too hard to cover it up. My

53:40

whole outlook on this is changing. And Jim and I back in

53:42

the day, I was host 2.0 after

53:45

Clayton Morris, but you know, Jim

53:47

and I did the paranormal report. Every

53:49

week we would try and find videos

53:51

of UAP or, and I was actually

53:53

calling them UAP way back then. But

53:55

I mean, nowadays that's the very common

53:57

nomenclature, but all other kinds of paranormal

53:59

phenomena. And yes, Jim and I always tried

54:01

to balance out belief versus skepticism and approach this

54:04

in a balanced way. If

54:06

I'm less balanced on the UAP topic, now

54:08

it's because of all the scientists, all of

54:10

the government officials, all of

54:12

the eyewitnesses. And I've actually been putting together slowly,

54:14

I haven't officially launched this yet, but I've

54:16

got a UAP science project that

54:18

I'm doing that involves collecting data from eyewitnesses.

54:21

I'm going to tell you that right there,

54:23

very much like Jim Harold's campfire. I mean,

54:25

it is getting those stories from

54:27

those individuals and hearing their firsthand accounts.

54:30

Some of them are absolutely hair raising.

54:32

That's what's really solidified it for me. And then after

54:34

hearing these stories of people who time

54:36

and time again, see these massive black triangles

54:39

flying in the sky, or they observe these

54:41

metallic spheres that are hovering and that they're

54:43

moving in very unusual ways, certainly not like

54:45

balloons or little orbs of light

54:48

that kind of run up to their window at night

54:50

or something and scan them. I mean, I hear all

54:52

of these patterns in these stories. And

54:55

then I hear these government officials describing

54:58

very similar things. David Grush interviewed a naval

55:00

officer who saw one of these big triangles.

55:03

Right now, the all domain anomaly

55:05

resolution office, which is the official

55:07

office within the DOD that investigates

55:09

these things, they describe the outgoing

55:11

director, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick currently. He'll

55:14

be gone after this month, but I mean, he described

55:16

the target package of the UAP that they're looking for

55:18

as these metallic spheres. Again, I hear

55:20

these things from people all the time. And it really

55:23

makes me look at the official kind of information that's

55:25

been coming out and say, my gosh, they

55:27

aren't the only ones that are looking into this. And this is

55:29

nothing new. Those of us who have been studying

55:32

this stuff for years, Jim and I, we were seeing this stuff

55:34

back in the day when we were preparing for our podcast every

55:36

week. So if anything, it's a

55:38

bit of vindication for what we felt all along.

55:40

But now, like you said, Jim, I feel stronger

55:42

than ever that there is a there there. And

55:46

if anything, this is probably coming to a head probably

55:48

in the next few years. And when I was taught

55:50

to look at people and see what's

55:52

going on with them, the one thing that one

55:54

of my instructors said was, is don't look directly

55:57

at the person. Use your peripheral vision

55:59

and look up. what's going on around them and

56:02

read the tea leaves of the stuff

56:04

that's going on around that person. So

56:07

if you look at Grush and

56:09

they're spending an awful lot of time and

56:11

awful lot of effort trying to close down

56:14

somebody that they're calling a liar, you

56:16

don't close down a vacuum. You don't

56:18

try and shut down a vacuum. But

56:20

for me, the most telling thing is,

56:23

look who his lawyer is. His

56:26

lawyer is a former IGIC.

56:30

And if he was telling lies, his

56:32

lawyer would be some

56:34

guy out of an office in

56:37

Paramp, somewhere. I can't remember

56:39

the guy's name now, but he's got a

56:41

former… Charles McCullough. I met him last month

56:43

and I'm going to tell you, that guy,

56:45

he obviously, with the depth of knowledge he

56:48

has about this Paul, he obviously takes this

56:50

story extremely seriously as one would expect as

56:52

he is representing David Grush. Yeah,

56:55

absolutely. The fact that you've got

56:57

a former inspector general of the

56:59

intelligence community acting for the whistleblower.

57:02

If he knew that Grush was lying,

57:04

he's not doing himself any favors at

57:06

all. So the fact that

57:08

he's involved, I think is incredibly telling. Did

57:11

he ever get into that skiff or that

57:13

got waylaid? I think there has been some

57:15

skiff access. Okay. So he's supposedly… and he's…

57:17

congressional members in there with him in the

57:19

skiff and he's giving them the information he

57:21

couldn't give in the hearing, in the public

57:23

hearing. Has that happened? I believe

57:25

so. I'm not sure that it's to the extent,

57:27

you know, of course, that everybody had hoped for

57:30

it. The situation… my understanding about this, since I

57:32

mean the story broke really had been this. Grush,

57:35

of course, after he left

57:37

government and he officially filed this

57:39

complaint, it limits inherently

57:41

the degree to which he is able

57:44

to communicate with, for instance, members of

57:46

Congress about classified information for one simple

57:48

reason, because after he leaves government, he's

57:50

effectively read out of those programs. He's

57:53

not allowed to discuss those kinds

57:55

of issues. And there were congressional staffers whom my team

57:57

and I spoke with who even had said… The

58:00

problem is that there's going to be a limitation to

58:02

how much communication he can have directly with members of

58:04

Congress. Now, that is not to

58:06

say, of course, that he can't go and sit there

58:08

and he can talk under oath as he did back

58:10

in July along with Dave Fraver and with

58:12

Ryan Graves when they spoke before

58:15

the committee. But you'll notice that he's very

58:17

careful about what he says and naturally also

58:19

says that in a classified setting, in a

58:21

secure environment, I can talk about some of

58:23

those things. So I still understand that there

58:26

are some limitations and that to the full

58:28

extent that everybody wants to know, tell us

58:30

all about what you've learned, what

58:33

you supplied the intelligence community, the

58:35

inspector general. I don't think that it's to

58:37

the full extent yet that Congress, certain interested

58:39

members of Congress would want. I hope we'll

58:42

get to that point. But another

58:44

relevant point, and I'll just throw this in there really

58:46

quickly too, Grush under oath said back

58:48

in July that he had interviewed some

58:50

40 individuals who had knowledge of a

58:53

program within the United States government involving

58:55

crash retrievals and these, again,

58:57

committed to exotic craft. Although

58:59

he's been fairly vague about it, not Grush,

59:02

but Sean Kirkpatrick, the current director of the

59:04

all domain anomaly resolution office, Kirkpatrick

59:06

has said that there have been at least

59:08

30 or so individuals, many of whom he

59:10

believes are the same ones that Grush spoke

59:12

with, who have now gone and they have

59:14

spoken to Arrow. And there was that whistleblower

59:16

provision in the National Events Authorization Act that

59:19

passed last year, which is for fiscal year

59:21

2023. That portion

59:23

of the NDAA protects whistleblowers from any

59:25

kind of reprisals if they come forward

59:27

and talk about this, hence why they

59:29

and also why Grush were able to come forward and talk

59:31

about this in the first place. So although

59:34

there are certain limitations in terms of what

59:36

Grush and to what degree Grush has provided

59:38

additional information, apart from the hundreds

59:40

of pages of classified documents that

59:42

he said that he offered to the ICIG,

59:44

we have had some of the people that

59:46

Grush spoke with who have also gone directly

59:49

to Arrow and provided their testimony. So something

59:51

I'm really interested in is I

59:53

believe by the end of the year, we're

59:55

supposed to see phase one of this historical

59:57

review that Arrow has carried out. And

1:00:00

then by next June or July, maybe sometime next

1:00:02

year, we're gonna be seeing the second phase of

1:00:04

that, which is a historical review

1:00:06

that should incorporate some of that kind of

1:00:09

information. I don't know to what extent

1:00:11

it's gonna really give us a

1:00:13

detailed view of any kind

1:00:15

of government programs and the kinds of things that

1:00:17

Gresha has been talking about because I suspect a

1:00:19

lot of that would have to be classified.

1:00:21

A lot of it would have to be extremely

1:00:24

compartmentalized. A lot would have existed in special access

1:00:26

programs, but it could be the

1:00:28

case that we will hear some things. And so again,

1:00:30

the most relevant point to me here is the fact

1:00:32

that those people Gresha that he spoke to, many of

1:00:34

them have gone to Arrow and have

1:00:37

provided information to. These people, are

1:00:39

they all liars? Is this all a big scythe?

1:00:41

Or are these people like Gresha seems to believe

1:00:44

telling an actual story and are speaking

1:00:46

about something they have direct knowledge of,

1:00:49

or at least that they know of and

1:00:51

that they feel that they can corroborate? I

1:00:53

think again, that seems to be corroborated in

1:00:56

itself by decades and decades of stories that

1:00:58

we have heard from similar people, whistleblowers, civilian

1:01:00

workers, and others who have said, yeah, there's

1:01:02

been something going on that the American public's

1:01:05

been kept in the dark about. I've

1:01:07

been fascinated since, I

1:01:09

mean, I've been a UFO freak since I was a

1:01:12

kid, but I couldn't believe when the New York Times

1:01:14

stories came out that I can't believe that we had

1:01:16

Gresha in front of Congress. Like

1:01:18

if you told me that when I was a kid, I would

1:01:21

have thought you were crazy. So

1:01:23

here's one of my many, many, many

1:01:25

questions. Do you think that if the

1:01:27

Schumer Amendment goes down and

1:01:29

or if the Burchett Amendment goes

1:01:31

down, do you think we'll

1:01:33

see a Snowden style leak of some

1:01:36

of this information from somebody? Because it

1:01:38

seems like if Snowden's leaking stuff about,

1:01:40

you know, the surveillance abilities that our

1:01:43

government has, someone's got to

1:01:45

have access to this on a drive somewhere

1:01:47

about UAP or something, right? Interestingly, Snowden said

1:01:49

he never saw any kind of data about

1:01:51

UAP, but then again, one might also say,

1:01:53

but it depends a lot on where you

1:01:55

go and look. If you know where

1:01:57

to look, again, think about those three. historical

1:02:00

navy videos that came out in 2017, one

1:02:02

of which had already been out there in the wild for years,

1:02:05

the other two which were new, but they weren't classified. They

1:02:08

were actually characterized, I guess, as unofficial

1:02:11

or rather for special use only,

1:02:13

I think, unclassified for special use

1:02:15

only. Now, there was an

1:02:17

investigation by the Air Force Office of Special

1:02:19

Investigations to make sure that there wasn't a

1:02:22

leak of any kind of sensitive information, and

1:02:24

it was deemed that that had not occurred,

1:02:26

and those videos later were actually able to

1:02:28

be released, and then they were officially re-released

1:02:30

by the DOD in 2020, if you recall.

1:02:32

So leaks do occur, and Chris one could

1:02:35

hope that there will be more significant leaks, but

1:02:37

right now, again, I can only speculate

1:02:39

about that like anybody else. The problem, I think, in

1:02:41

the real issue, and this coming back to what Jim

1:02:43

was talking about, it ain't looking

1:02:46

likely that the Schumer Amendment is going to

1:02:48

pass or that some version in the House

1:02:50

or the Senate that involves true, serious, honest,

1:02:52

legitimate UAP disclosure. It doesn't look like that's

1:02:55

going to make it into the NDAA this

1:02:57

year. So I mean, the onus may be

1:02:59

on the academic community, on

1:03:01

scientists, on former government officials, policymakers,

1:03:03

and people who are willing to

1:03:06

work in the civilian sector. And

1:03:08

I just attended an event out at Stanford

1:03:10

University, the Seoul Foundation's inaugural event.

1:03:13

That is exactly what everybody at that event

1:03:15

is working toward, trying to lay the groundwork

1:03:17

in the public sector to facilitate that eventuality.

1:03:19

Because whether it's through a leak like you're

1:03:21

asking about, or whether it's through legislation, eventually

1:03:24

the truth we hope is going to come

1:03:26

out. I hope so. I mean, I feel

1:03:28

like we're so close. I feel like

1:03:30

we're right there. But also, right

1:03:32

there is my time to go. So thank you

1:03:34

guys so much for having me. Thank you. Cheers.

1:03:38

Happy holidays. Listen to Scared all the

1:03:40

time. You are very disturbing. I love

1:03:42

it. I'm perfect. Wonderful. I'm

1:03:44

going to listen. We love to hear it. All right. Happy

1:03:47

holidays, guys. Thanks so much. I'll see you all

1:03:49

later. Bye. A short walk

1:03:51

through the

1:03:56

woods. And the old cemeteries. Welcome

1:04:01

dear guest to

1:04:03

the Midnight Library. There's

1:04:06

rumors of monsters of demons

1:04:09

and magic so

1:04:11

don't wander the hall because

1:04:14

your loss would be tragic. They

1:04:17

say our behavior is

1:04:19

dark and nefarious so

1:04:23

it's best that you stay in

1:04:25

the Cordon D'off area. Your

1:04:28

visit will be chilling but

1:04:30

in the nicest way. Just

1:04:33

wait till you see the

1:04:36

hospitality tray. Please

1:04:38

follow Mr. Darling to the

1:04:40

reading room for

1:04:42

stories of terror, of

1:04:45

mystery and doom. Miss

1:04:48

Merrick holds readings on things

1:04:51

must be dreaded from

1:04:54

which bottles japanji and

1:04:56

the freshly beheaded. A short

1:04:59

walk through the woods and

1:05:02

the old cemetery. We

1:05:05

bid you welcome to

1:05:07

the Midnight Library. We

1:05:18

in? Is it going? Yeah I don't I think so I

1:05:20

think that I don't know how long this feed is gonna

1:05:22

hold but I think we're in. We hacked the feed. It

1:05:24

turns out okay great we should get started then. Scared

1:05:27

all the time. The podcast about things that

1:05:29

scare. Whoa what are you doing? I'm making

1:05:31

a trailer they asked for a trailer like

1:05:33

got my trailer music doing my trailer voice. No

1:05:35

yeah that's this is

1:05:38

false advertising. We're just a couple idiots talking

1:05:40

about things that scare us this kind of

1:05:42

seems like overkill. Maybe you should go for

1:05:44

something spookier like something scary.

1:05:47

Okay fine. Scared

1:05:50

all the time is it podcast about things that

1:05:52

scare us? No that's too scary. Okay well I

1:05:54

only have one more piece of music. This

1:05:57

will have to do. I'm Chris Kalari and I'm

1:06:00

I'm Ed Vicala. And every week we're going to take

1:06:02

a look at something new that scares us and why.

1:06:04

Like this trailer going over a minute. Yeah, they said

1:06:06

we definitely should not do that. Join

1:06:08

us for season one of Scared All The Time, a

1:06:11

brand new show from Astonishing Legends. Available

1:06:13

anywhere you listen to podcasts. Forrest

1:06:18

and Scott, thank you for supporting your

1:06:21

sponsors. I'm Isaiah. Now back to

1:06:23

the show. So

1:06:27

I haven't seen the Cold Heart interview yet

1:06:29

either. I haven't heard Joe Rogan yet. All

1:06:32

this stuff is going to happen at Christmas when there's no

1:06:34

show for us to produce. So I'm looking forward to just

1:06:36

zoning out and listening to all this stuff. I'm

1:06:39

curious though about some of the stuff that's been

1:06:41

said, and this is getting into the speculative arena.

1:06:43

So I know we're getting a little bit away

1:06:45

from where you're at, Micah. But I

1:06:47

feel like I've been reading things here

1:06:49

and there on UFOB, on

1:06:51

Twitter, as well as on

1:06:54

Reddit, some about the nature

1:06:56

of beings and how

1:06:58

the greys are not, that's

1:07:01

a suit and there's something else inside of

1:07:03

it. And then also it's a kind of

1:07:05

drone or a biological drone that's been put

1:07:07

into a suit and sent here to do

1:07:09

work. And that the craft. I think you're

1:07:11

talking about Philip J. Corso talking about at

1:07:14

least one individual. Yeah. Corso

1:07:16

had said that these seem to be engineered biological organisms.

1:07:18

And again, that was just what he said. And if

1:07:20

that is true, we have no way of knowing. And

1:07:23

he had said on a couple of occasions during

1:07:25

interviews on Artbills Coast to Coast AM, one where

1:07:27

he was accompanied by John Alexander. And

1:07:30

he had said, yeah, these were engineered kind of organisms that

1:07:32

were designed to be able to pilot these craft

1:07:34

and withstand the rigors of space travel. I think

1:07:36

that's what you're referring to. That

1:07:38

is one of, yeah. So the other idea

1:07:41

that's sort of freaky about that is that

1:07:43

whatever is sending that stuff here isn't here

1:07:45

at all. If these are all just, they're

1:07:48

drones. They're just drones being biological and

1:07:50

mechanical or whatever. But the force behind

1:07:52

them is not, is a long way

1:07:54

from being present. So who are the

1:07:57

operators? So if we're talking

1:07:59

about wild theories. I interviewed a

1:08:01

gentleman two or three times, and he

1:08:03

was—one thing I can say about him

1:08:05

is he was very intelligent, and he

1:08:07

was very convinced of his

1:08:09

theory. And he's passed away

1:08:11

since, unfortunately, relatively recently in the last year

1:08:13

or two. His name is Nigel Kerner. And

1:08:17

he was convinced that,

1:08:19

quote, the aliens, the greys, or

1:08:21

whoever they were, were some non-biological,

1:08:24

or at least their

1:08:26

overlords were non-biological. And

1:08:30

they were somehow trying to tap

1:08:32

into something that we had that they don't,

1:08:35

and that is souls. Yeah. I've

1:08:37

heard this as well. Now, again, that is kind of

1:08:39

out there. But boy, if you would talk to Nigel,

1:08:42

I mean, he would get vociferous about it.

1:08:45

He was convinced of it, and I'm not saying he's right,

1:08:48

but he felt that these were

1:08:50

mechanical, and now we talk

1:08:52

about—and I know, Scott, it's something you're really

1:08:54

following very closely, AI. Yeah.

1:08:57

And he felt that they were

1:09:00

after something that we had, that

1:09:02

they did not have, and that

1:09:04

is souls. Twenty-one grams. Wild

1:09:07

theory, but that is one

1:09:09

theory that's out there. Well, there's different levels,

1:09:11

and I've said this on the show before,

1:09:13

is that we're most

1:09:15

comfortable, or going to have to comfort

1:09:17

ourselves in thinking about this in stages.

1:09:20

And the one part is that it's mechanical,

1:09:22

nuts and bolts. Okay, so we can

1:09:25

agree that there are things flying around that

1:09:27

we don't know what they are, and that's

1:09:29

readily admitted. But they're machines. Even

1:09:32

if they're robotic, then it is

1:09:34

a little easier for us to deal with. The second

1:09:36

level is not so easy,

1:09:38

and that is some creatures, whatever you

1:09:40

want to call them, are

1:09:42

making these things and flying them around,

1:09:44

and obviously they have much greater power

1:09:47

than we do. What do we have

1:09:49

that they could possibly want? Well, there's

1:09:51

only two things. It's either our biological

1:09:53

aspect of us, our DNA, they have

1:09:55

goofed up their own, or they're on

1:09:58

some kind of trajectory where they're... not

1:10:00

getting healthier or they're headed

1:10:02

towards extinction. So we're

1:10:05

useful in that regard because as

1:10:07

much for as much as

1:10:09

we do to ourselves physically and emotionally,

1:10:11

we are still a good source of

1:10:13

meat and DNA. Put that

1:10:16

in my online dating profile. It's

1:10:20

all the hybrid thing and it's so

1:10:22

many abductees. It's like they have the

1:10:24

same story and that might be some

1:10:26

collective psychological thing. Who knows? I think

1:10:29

that's what Dr. John Mack was

1:10:31

trying to look into. What's going on here?

1:10:33

Why is it so matching everything? The end

1:10:35

game of this comes down to what

1:10:37

we have to offer and that is consciousness. And

1:10:40

then you can get into the Mandela effect

1:10:42

rabbit hole. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

1:10:46

I want to interject here and

1:10:48

it's just amazing how

1:10:50

easy it is to get

1:10:52

into the weeds and like

1:10:54

Forrest's idea of

1:10:56

stages. I think we're in

1:10:58

stage one and it's

1:11:01

exciting. I am so excited

1:11:03

about all the hearings and I'm

1:11:05

behind because of October as well.

1:11:07

So I'm excited to hear that

1:11:10

all these shows are available that

1:11:12

I can watch during the holiday

1:11:14

season. That's like Christmas for

1:11:16

me. But what I'm thinking about in terms

1:11:19

of getting in the weeds, what

1:11:21

I want to hear from our three

1:11:23

UFO guys here is two

1:11:26

things. Where do you think 2024

1:11:29

will take us? Are we going to

1:11:31

go back? Is it going to be a cyclical and we're

1:11:33

going to have another Project Blue Book

1:11:35

and then somehow it's all going to get put

1:11:37

away and ridiculed some more?

1:11:39

Or is it going to be a

1:11:41

cyclical kind of thing? How is this

1:11:43

going to play out? I want your

1:11:45

predictions. And I also want to know

1:11:47

about what you think

1:11:50

about disinformation entering into this

1:11:52

because you never know

1:11:54

what you don't know, but I'm

1:11:56

always trying to anticipate what part

1:11:58

of this is disinformation. What

1:12:00

is fooling me right now? And I don't even know

1:12:03

I'm being fooled. So those

1:12:05

are some big questions. But what do you

1:12:07

think is ahead, you guys? And

1:12:10

what do you think we have to watch out for

1:12:12

in terms of disinformation? I think

1:12:15

you're going to get disclosure by

1:12:17

force, Alison. I don't think you're

1:12:19

going to get disclosure from the government. I

1:12:21

suspect that if the Schumer Amendment gets shot

1:12:23

down and any of the other amendments get

1:12:25

shot down as well, I don't

1:12:28

think it's going to make a big difference

1:12:30

in the long term. I think in the

1:12:32

short term, it will frustrate people, especially people

1:12:34

who have got interests in money, etc. I

1:12:37

am very interested in what

1:12:40

I see as a new paradigm in journalism. We

1:12:42

look at the Ross cool tards of

1:12:44

this world, Jeremy

1:12:46

Corbell, George Knapp, Bryce Sabol and

1:12:48

many others who are very similar.

1:12:53

They've kind of got their hands

1:12:55

around the throat of this now. And

1:12:58

even though they're playing a very careful game about

1:13:00

what they say on the podcast and things like

1:13:02

that, I'm not going to put words into them

1:13:04

out. But they clearly know

1:13:06

more than what they're allowed to say or

1:13:09

what they feel is safe to say. So

1:13:11

I think that if the politicians don't do

1:13:13

the right thing, I think you're going to

1:13:15

see it coming out one way or the

1:13:18

other. And it might be bit

1:13:20

by bit because of the compartmented

1:13:22

nature of intelligence. But I

1:13:24

suspect that there's at least more than one

1:13:27

faction involved in this behind the scenes in

1:13:29

the government, those who

1:13:31

actually want disclosure and those who

1:13:33

don't. And there's kind

1:13:35

of an internal warfare

1:13:37

might be a strong word, but

1:13:39

there's definitely an internal conflict within

1:13:41

some governmental departments, especially

1:13:44

in the US rather than over here where

1:13:46

actually you will have a faction who want

1:13:48

the information to come out, which I think

1:13:50

clearly is the case. And clearly

1:13:53

again, you've got a faction who

1:13:55

don't want it to come out.

1:13:57

And I think with the journalistic

1:13:59

interest. that's going on and the standard

1:14:01

of journalism that's going on, I

1:14:04

think it's going to come out despite what the

1:14:06

politicians want. Paul, I just want

1:14:08

to interject too. And we've been focusing

1:14:10

on what's been going on in the

1:14:12

US. And is there anything

1:14:14

in terms of disclosure happening in

1:14:17

the UK that we might have missed? No,

1:14:19

it's basically being ignored. Well,

1:14:22

here's a comment from Flint. People

1:14:25

think it will reveal more than it actually will.

1:14:29

Yeah, I don't know what to think of. You know

1:14:31

what I was just thinking about? Yeah, the Corso. It

1:14:33

was Corso was the source for that concept. That was

1:14:36

not something I had heard before, Micah. Thanks for putting

1:14:38

his name to that. Just

1:14:40

the idea that these are all just different mechanisms,

1:14:42

biological or not, and they're all being manipulated or

1:14:44

sent here by something else. And then just tonight

1:14:47

in the course of this conversation, the other thing

1:14:49

that's interesting to me is like here we are

1:14:51

at this exact moment because all this disclosure stuff

1:14:53

is happening. We're desperately, as

1:14:55

Jim said, I'm fascinated with AI. I would love

1:14:57

playing around with it and all this kind of

1:15:00

stuff. And Allison and I have talked about that too offline.

1:15:02

The AI stuff is fun. But the thing

1:15:04

that's interesting to me is like here we are. We're

1:15:06

trying to get to this point where

1:15:09

we might have sentient artificial intelligence

1:15:11

or AGI they're talking about. There's

1:15:14

some rumors that that's what OpenAI had developed.

1:15:16

And however they were about to deal with

1:15:18

that is what led to the whole dustout

1:15:20

with Sam Altman. That was my theory.

1:15:22

Yeah, going away and coming back. And now of course that's

1:15:25

also a great press release if you're an investor. So like

1:15:27

who knows where all that is. But

1:15:30

wasn't it funny that we're sitting here trying

1:15:32

to get the computers to act like people,

1:15:34

then maybe these things that are coming

1:15:36

down here started out as computers and they're trying to

1:15:38

get to souls. It's like

1:15:40

we're crossing an X. We're crossing paths.

1:15:42

That's really well said. That's

1:15:45

what the one molecular biologist

1:15:47

was claiming and that Possibly Spur

1:15:49

is Possibly True, Reddit thread was

1:15:51

that their end goal is

1:15:54

what we're talking about with consciousness.

1:15:56

It's apotheosis. It is this

1:15:58

higher next level. and they have not

1:16:01

yet been able to crack that. If

1:16:03

you believe the people that have their abduction

1:16:05

stories, they're not perfect. I think we assumed,

1:16:07

you know, that's the whole argument, like, well,

1:16:09

why would we have crashed craft? These people

1:16:11

are actually, obviously, very much more

1:16:13

advanced than us. But again,

1:16:15

I think that's simplistic thinking and that

1:16:17

no one's perfect, including whatever's

1:16:19

coming from another dimension or planet. But

1:16:22

what the end goal is, is something

1:16:25

not mechanical, perhaps a hybrid of,

1:16:27

again, being aided by technology, but

1:16:30

it is the one thing that's universal,

1:16:32

and that is, perhaps, I think,

1:16:34

consciousness. No, so maybe these

1:16:36

things are all biological and just super

1:16:38

advanced, and also they

1:16:40

have a crossover between biology and technology, all

1:16:43

of that kind of stuff, but then they evolved in

1:16:45

such a way that they don't have what they consider

1:16:47

a soul. Like, it just didn't

1:16:49

happen on their biological timeline. So now

1:16:51

they're here, and they're like, how come

1:16:53

these guys have this and we don't?

1:16:55

But that's what you say about, I've

1:16:57

heard, you know, again, it crosses all

1:16:59

genres, which I find utterly fascinating, in

1:17:02

that this is what mediums,

1:17:05

psychic mediums have talked about, what

1:17:08

do spirits on the other side see of us

1:17:10

in our world? Why do they care about us?

1:17:12

Why are they so interested? Why do they scare

1:17:14

us and show up at the foot of our

1:17:16

beds, dressed in fedoras and

1:17:18

do all these freaky things that they plan to

1:17:20

do? And aside from the fear

1:17:22

and this and that is that, it's

1:17:24

one of my favorite things, and I think I

1:17:26

heard it, it's either on Jim

1:17:29

Harrell's Paranormal Podcast or it was Coast to

1:17:31

Coast, equally, I think, in my opinion, two

1:17:33

great shows, but of

1:17:35

course, and I think it was a psychic

1:17:37

meeting saying, well, why they're interested

1:17:40

in us, or they're curious at all is that, you

1:17:42

have to look at us as sources of energy, and

1:17:45

they're two different kinds, us on Earth. Yes,

1:17:48

we're dumb, we're crude, we do, we have

1:17:50

silly pursuits, we say stupid things, some of

1:17:52

us seem to evolve, some of us are

1:17:55

just starting out at a

1:17:57

very low energy frequency vibrational kind of

1:17:59

thing. And others are trying

1:18:01

to get how you that is a poll

1:18:03

quote for scared all the time there no

1:18:05

vibrational you know knuckle

1:18:07

dragging but we're also very

1:18:10

vibrant if you is the psychic medium

1:18:12

said if you were on the other

1:18:14

side imagine it like this in that.

1:18:16

Human beings in our energy in our

1:18:18

soul energy is it's like

1:18:20

a flashlight it's a very bright beam.

1:18:23

it's very narrow it does travel but

1:18:25

not that far if you're on the

1:18:27

other side in the spirit world it's

1:18:29

more like moonlight in that. it's

1:18:32

everywhere it's pervasive you can go anywhere

1:18:34

the moon is bathing it's light you

1:18:37

know that includes time and space but it's

1:18:39

also very faint it's very weak. And

1:18:42

so on the other side they're attracted

1:18:44

to our the intensity of our

1:18:46

bright light and our soul energy

1:18:48

if you want to say but that's what attracts

1:18:50

them. Because it's something that

1:18:52

they cannot get anymore they lost

1:18:54

that and they year for that and

1:18:57

when they get near it it's like being

1:18:59

charged up it's like why do flashlights and

1:19:01

batteries died haunted houses all the time. I'm

1:19:04

not thinking that they're always playing a prank i'm thinking

1:19:06

that they're getting a juice out of it they're getting

1:19:08

a little goose a charge. And

1:19:10

it's exhilarating and it's something that they they yearn

1:19:13

for yet cannot have any more and

1:19:15

maybe the t's are just like that. Just

1:19:17

a thought along with what Paul was saying

1:19:19

because I think he said it very well

1:19:21

I would use an American football analogy and

1:19:24

then i'll i'll feed the Florida Mr Hanks because

1:19:26

he's probably closer to the story he is closer

1:19:28

to the story than any of us. But

1:19:31

i think what we want is

1:19:33

people who want the truth we want to know what's

1:19:35

really going on if there's nothing we want to know

1:19:37

i mean that's the way i am i'm not like. What's

1:19:40

the aliens are nothing if there's nothing to it i want

1:19:42

to know there's nothing if there's

1:19:44

something i want to know there's something and

1:19:46

we all want our team. You

1:19:48

know i'm a Cleveland Browns fans so i'll

1:19:51

use an American football analogy we're very long

1:19:53

suffering but. Hey

1:19:56

don't laugh got you got the pain yeah

1:19:58

but anyway. I

1:20:00

don't even really follow football, but I

1:20:02

know they are not. I'm

1:20:05

out in Connecticut. We don't even have a team. I

1:20:07

just had to get them. Hey, you know, we can't

1:20:09

pick on many people in Cleveland, so we got to

1:20:11

pick on some. Go for it.

1:20:13

Go for it, man. But

1:20:16

anyway, I think, you

1:20:18

know, we're on the 30-yard line right now, and most

1:20:20

of us who want the truth, we want the 70-yard

1:20:23

bomb. We want the instant touchdown. And

1:20:25

that's what the Schumer legislation,

1:20:27

that was kind of the promise that was held out. We're

1:20:31

going to get disclosure right now. But

1:20:34

I think to Paul's point that

1:20:37

it's going to be much more

1:20:40

like the old San Francisco

1:20:42

49ers for those of a certain age. And they wouldn't

1:20:44

get, occasionally they'd get the 70-yard bomb, but more or

1:20:46

less they'd just like 10, the West Coast offense. They'd

1:20:51

get 10, 15 yards,

1:20:53

10, 15 yards, chuck it down the

1:20:55

field, and all of a sudden you got a touchdown.

1:20:58

And I apologize to Paul for all

1:21:00

the American football analogies. He doesn't know

1:21:02

what's going on. The point being, I

1:21:05

think that's where we're at. We're not just

1:21:07

stuck on the 30-yard line anymore. I think

1:21:09

there is some cause for optimism,

1:21:11

and I think we're going to chunk it down the

1:21:13

field. But I don't

1:21:16

think we're going to get that 70-yard bomb. And

1:21:19

I wish we would get that. I wish

1:21:21

that we would get that instant answer and like,

1:21:23

yeah, it's real. And

1:21:25

like the Daily Mail reported recently,

1:21:27

the CIA is in possession of

1:21:29

9 NHI craft. I mean, that

1:21:32

would be great if we get verification of that. But

1:21:34

I think we're going to chunk it down the field. But

1:21:36

I think that process is underway, and it's going to

1:21:38

be hard to keep that genie in the bottle now

1:21:41

that it's partially out. Paul,

1:21:43

what he's saying is it's like 60 touches before a

1:21:45

goal, if that helps at all.

1:21:48

I wanted to interject there, Jim, and

1:21:50

say, well, what do you think about

1:21:53

the disinformation question? I thought

1:21:55

that was a good prediction question, you

1:21:57

know, answer, because I see what you're saying,

1:21:59

even though that's not true. I don't know the football very

1:22:01

well. I get I get what you're going at there

1:22:04

But is there any way that you

1:22:06

think they could pull this back? Oh,

1:22:08

I think they're gonna try Yeah, I'd be

1:22:10

more interested in see what Micah has to say because

1:22:13

he's close to it All

1:22:15

the props to Micah But but the point

1:22:17

is is that I think the people in

1:22:19

control are gonna do everything they can To

1:22:22

stuff this back up, but I don't know that

1:22:24

they're gonna be successful in the long term

1:22:26

in the short term Yes in the long

1:22:29

term. No, yes, indeed I think my colleagues

1:22:31

from the great state of well, Wright-Patterson Air

1:22:33

Force Base and also my friend from the

1:22:35

UK there They've answered the first part of

1:22:38

that question that you had Allison. So on

1:22:40

that disinformation part of it I'll just say

1:22:42

this, you know, I don't want

1:22:44

to be specific about which stories but to me

1:22:47

there have been some

1:22:49

stories that have been they were

1:22:51

published but I mean I would say that

1:22:54

I had reservations about taking the Information

1:22:56

that appeared in some of those stories that appeared this

1:22:58

year and other publications

1:23:00

I'm not talking about my own obviously I

1:23:03

have some Reservations about accepting at

1:23:05

face value the information that appeared

1:23:07

in certain stories that appeared

1:23:09

this year And one of

1:23:11

the reasons I don't want to point to which

1:23:13

one is because I mean obviously I have respect

1:23:15

for my fellow journalists and their

1:23:18

efforts to the best of

1:23:20

their ability and using the best judgment and

1:23:22

their best faculties and their best sources and

1:23:24

materials to be Able to try and fairly

1:23:26

and honestly report on Developments

1:23:29

with regard to UAP, but I mean to

1:23:32

me If

1:23:34

all this is true, I mean it's

1:23:36

truly extraordinary and that's possible But

1:23:38

usually what we see if we look at

1:23:40

the history of this phenomenon and the way

1:23:43

that the information comes out and the likelihood

1:23:45

That everything that goes to print or makes

1:23:47

its way to print is

1:23:49

true Versus the to me

1:23:51

greater likelihood that a lot of it is

1:23:53

probably going to be based on here say

1:23:55

some speculation And yes, like you allude to

1:23:57

some may be intentional

1:24:00

bad information that's injected into the

1:24:02

narrative so as to steer

1:24:04

the narrative or to steer it off course,

1:24:07

but in any case what it does is it muddies

1:24:09

the waters and thereby makes it more difficult to understand

1:24:12

what is true and what is not. That's

1:24:14

how good disinformation works and let's be clear,

1:24:16

misinformation can be okay I heard

1:24:18

something I didn't understand what I was hearing I

1:24:20

go and I repeat it and I completely

1:24:23

botch it when I repeat it and somebody

1:24:25

else hears that and says, Micah Hanks seems like a

1:24:27

credible source. Here's what he

1:24:29

said and I got it totally wrong but

1:24:32

somebody takes that information now I unknowingly took

1:24:34

that information and I go out and I tell it

1:24:36

to the world and other people say well because I trust Hanks

1:24:39

I'll go out and I'll talk about this

1:24:41

or I'll write an article about it. I

1:24:43

didn't intend to release bad information that would

1:24:45

be misinformation. Disinformation very different bird right there

1:24:48

where someone intentionally releases bad information

1:24:50

or injects that into a dialogue

1:24:52

so as to try and cause

1:24:55

confusion to sow seeds

1:24:57

of discord. It's obviously possible that

1:25:00

that's occurring and there is some historical precedent

1:25:02

for it and that's one of the reasons

1:25:04

why I say speculatively that it seems

1:25:06

more likely to me that some of

1:25:08

the information that's currently coming out probably

1:25:10

is in that

1:25:12

camp of disinformation. It is probably rather

1:25:14

than controlled disclosure or chaotic disclosure we

1:25:16

keep seeing those kind of terms so

1:25:19

much right now there probably

1:25:21

is an effort to try and

1:25:23

obfuscate to try and confuse there

1:25:25

always has been and there

1:25:27

are certain people that do that for fun

1:25:30

and there are others that do that for far more concerning

1:25:33

reasons let's say but again

1:25:35

I you have to be very careful

1:25:37

what information you take at face value and this is

1:25:39

one of the reasons why I think as a journalist

1:25:42

it's very important that you always try

1:25:44

to be able to have reliable sources you

1:25:46

always try as a journalist to bring those

1:25:48

sources onto the record you always try to

1:25:50

be able to fairly report on things don't

1:25:53

just report one side of the story

1:25:55

get the opinion of someone who you may hate

1:25:57

but who is a skeptic or who has a

1:25:59

completely different perspective make sure that

1:26:01

you have both sides that you have balance. And

1:26:04

sometimes I worry that that's what the UAP

1:26:07

dialogue right now is missing. There's probably

1:26:09

plenty of disinformation. There's a whole lot

1:26:11

of misinformation. Somewhere between the wheat

1:26:13

and the chaff, there's a little bit of good information.

1:26:16

But then there's also a lot of advocacy that

1:26:18

while well intended, it's not

1:26:20

balanced. And what we really need more

1:26:22

of is we need balanced, rigorous analysis,

1:26:25

we need skepticism injected, as well as

1:26:28

fair minded advocacy, because we

1:26:30

do need that too. And that's one

1:26:32

of the issues I think. So all in all to me,

1:26:34

it's just, you know, Bruce Lee, I

1:26:36

think, and lots of others,

1:26:38

of course, have used aphorisms like this. Don't

1:26:41

believe anything you hear and

1:26:44

believe only half of what you see. And

1:26:46

when it comes to UAP, you can probably believe

1:26:48

less than that. But at the end of the

1:26:50

day, I still would have to think that somewhere

1:26:52

in all this, we are hearing so much, there's

1:26:54

so much smoke again, to borrow my analogy from

1:26:57

earlier, there'd have to be some fire too. But

1:26:59

there's probably gonna be a lot of BS

1:27:01

in there also. And what you smelling ain't

1:27:03

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1:28:15

is Sarah BC. Thank you for listening to

1:28:17

Astonishing Legends. Let's get back to the show.

1:28:23

I've got a question for Rich Haddam. Rich,

1:28:27

you wrote the Mothman

1:28:29

Prophecy screenplay all those

1:28:31

years ago. And now you see

1:28:33

all of this like in the headlines

1:28:35

of The Hill in the

1:28:37

Wall Street Journal. How does that feel

1:28:39

for you to like do

1:28:41

this wild Hollywood movie? And

1:28:44

now all this stuff is like coming

1:28:46

to the fore like in actual politics

1:28:49

and it's on the floor of the congress office. What's

1:28:51

that like for you to see like,

1:28:53

wow, I was really onto something here.

1:28:56

Well, I never believed that the government

1:28:58

knew anything and I still don't. I

1:29:01

think that it's interesting that the story

1:29:03

that's being pushed is that these are

1:29:05

non-biological entities now. They're more like drones.

1:29:08

My question is, what do we

1:29:10

expect from disclosure if each of us

1:29:13

individually were brought into a warehouse and

1:29:16

shown something? What is our ability

1:29:18

to discern where that's from?

1:29:21

What it is? Certainly

1:29:23

if it's non-biological, it's far easier

1:29:25

for anyone to say, well, here's

1:29:27

the machine and it

1:29:30

came from outer space. I

1:29:32

think it's really, really hard for

1:29:35

us as human beings when we face things

1:29:37

like this. We want there to be something

1:29:40

physical, but so what if there

1:29:42

is something physical? How does that

1:29:44

convince us any more of anything and

1:29:46

what questions does that answer for

1:29:49

us? And why do we have such

1:29:52

a need for information to come

1:29:54

to us through the stamp

1:29:56

of government?

1:30:00

stamp of officialdom, therefore

1:30:02

we can believe it. But

1:30:04

when our next door neighbor tells us an

1:30:06

experience they had, which is much more about

1:30:09

what the Mothman Prophecies was about, we

1:30:11

laugh at them and we don't

1:30:13

want to hear it because we don't understand

1:30:16

it. But to

1:30:18

this moment, this night, right

1:30:21

now, all we have are

1:30:24

human beings saying what

1:30:26

they experienced and in a different way

1:30:28

you guys are saying, well, here are

1:30:30

some other human beings testifying before Congress

1:30:32

about what they've heard, about

1:30:34

what other people have seen. And

1:30:36

even if they're testifying about what they've

1:30:39

seen, how is that different than the

1:30:41

person down the street or the person around,

1:30:43

you know, the campfire saying, well,

1:30:45

here's what I experienced. What

1:30:48

more information are we going to

1:30:50

get? I think we

1:30:52

want something physical because

1:30:55

it makes us feel better. But I have a weird

1:30:57

feeling that even if something physical was placed in front

1:30:59

of me, I wouldn't know what to do

1:31:01

with it. There are some people who would

1:31:03

still dispute that and they're the thing too rich really quickly. I

1:31:06

mean, the other issue is, yes, the

1:31:08

government stuff brings a certain degree of

1:31:10

weight. But my gosh, I mean,

1:31:12

what would that be if it weren't for all the

1:31:15

people again, as Jacques Valet has said for years, what

1:31:17

about the farmer in the field who sees an egg

1:31:19

shaped craft touchdown and two little dwarves, as he would

1:31:21

say, step out and they take

1:31:24

soil samples. How many stories have

1:31:26

we heard like that? How many more do we

1:31:28

have to hear before we say, you know, maybe

1:31:30

some of those people were telling the truth and

1:31:32

they actually experienced something that was beyond our definition

1:31:34

of normal. I am all

1:31:36

colors, Sam. Exactly. My favorite. One

1:31:40

last interjection and I'll shut up on this. I

1:31:43

just interviewed Garrett Graff for the paranormal

1:31:45

podcast available wherever he gets the podcast.

1:31:50

I'm reading his book right now too. Yeah. Pulitzer

1:31:52

Prize nominee, finalist.

1:31:56

And he said he 100% believes there's a

1:31:58

US government cover up. But

1:32:00

he believes the reason that

1:32:03

there's a cover-up is because the government knows,

1:32:05

A, something is going on and

1:32:07

they have no idea what it is. Now,

1:32:10

I don't know, but it's

1:32:12

an interesting theory and a

1:32:14

very area of the guy, I mean, he's

1:32:17

written books on, you know, The Last

1:32:19

Plane in the Air for 9-11. He

1:32:21

wrote an extensive book

1:32:23

about Watergate. I mean, a serious,

1:32:25

serious guy. He was editor-in-chief, I

1:32:27

think, of Politico at one point. Super

1:32:30

serious guy. And he believes there's a

1:32:32

cover-up. He said, absolutely. But I believe it's because they

1:32:34

don't know what's going on. So

1:32:37

he's saying that the cover-up is we

1:32:39

have to start seeding stories out

1:32:41

there that we do know what's going on.

1:32:44

Is that what you're saying? No, he's saying

1:32:47

that they don't know what's going on. Now,

1:32:49

if you believe in Daily Mail, they're keeping

1:32:51

it. But that's the disinformation campaign that Alison's

1:32:53

talking about, is, okay, we

1:32:55

are dealing with something non-physical. We don't

1:32:58

have crash discs. We don't have bodies.

1:33:00

We don't have anything physical. But

1:33:02

we do have, you know, radar and

1:33:05

reports. And we now understand we are

1:33:07

dealing with something that is way

1:33:10

out of our grasp. But

1:33:12

now to imply that, don't worry,

1:33:14

nothing to see here, folks. Everything's

1:33:16

under control. We've got

1:33:18

to start building up a narrative that,

1:33:20

well, we got the stuff. We've been

1:33:22

talking to the aliens. Don't worry. We

1:33:25

got a treaty. We've got a tool.

1:33:27

America, America, America. And by the way,

1:33:29

what about the Japanese government, the Chinese

1:33:31

or the Russians or the Brazilians or

1:33:33

the Australians or all the other countries

1:33:36

on earth that exist physically where things

1:33:38

can crash or all of

1:33:40

the non-governmental places where things

1:33:42

can crash and people can go, look at

1:33:44

this crashed thing. Or does the government get

1:33:47

to all of them quickly and first and

1:33:49

thoroughly and completely? I think the theory is

1:33:51

that the CIA has this super duper

1:33:53

agency that can get into any place

1:33:55

on earth and extract. Oh, what was

1:33:57

that? What's the acronym for that one? I just read this. Michael

1:34:00

will know this. Michael will know this. Oh gosh,

1:34:02

actually I'm drawing a blank. Now it's that blue

1:34:05

badge thing. Yeah, this was

1:34:07

the story that appeared in the Daily Mail the other

1:34:09

day, and again, it was Josh Boswell. My friend Christopher

1:34:11

Sharp was one of the authors, and also of course,

1:34:14

Matt Ford from the Good Trouble Show

1:34:16

are the authors of this, and they

1:34:18

say that the CIA is effectively behind

1:34:20

this retrieval effort. Now, those

1:34:22

sources speaking on background for what appear

1:34:25

to be necessary reasons... Office of Global

1:34:27

Access. Yes, Office of Global

1:34:29

Access. All these individuals, for all we know,

1:34:31

maybe some are those who have gone to

1:34:33

Arrow and also provided testimony, or maybe some

1:34:35

who had spoken with Grush, but these

1:34:37

individuals are saying that this is something that

1:34:40

the CIA has managed for a long time.

1:34:42

Really quickly though, that's the contemporary

1:34:44

note or anchor point, but back to what Rich is

1:34:46

talking about right there. Look back to what the CIA

1:34:48

was doing way back in the 1950s. In 1952, we

1:34:52

had the Robertson panel, where J.L. and Ionic

1:34:54

was present, along with Donald Menzel and many

1:34:56

others, and they essentially said, look, you know,

1:34:58

okay, whatever these UAP are, calling them UFOs

1:35:00

back then, that was a fairly new term

1:35:02

for it really. I mean,

1:35:05

whatever they are or are not, we're more

1:35:07

concerned about how people will react to the

1:35:09

idea that UFOs might exist. So, let's try

1:35:11

and engage in a

1:35:13

public education campaign. Let's

1:35:15

get people to think that the Air Force has

1:35:18

a really good handle on this, that

1:35:20

we can understand and that we can explain

1:35:22

all these things, that we have no UFO

1:35:24

case that comes across our Blue Book desk,

1:35:26

that we can't easily identify, explain, debunk, and

1:35:28

take care of. Ladies and gentlemen, nothing to

1:35:30

see here. The Air Force knows what's going

1:35:33

on. Now, in that regard, Project

1:35:35

Blue Book carried out a two-fold purpose. One,

1:35:37

it was to look like

1:35:40

it was engaging in UFO investigations

1:35:42

and really to try and control at the

1:35:45

behest of the CIA based on this interpretation.

1:35:47

And again, I think that there's historical precedent

1:35:49

for this. Many have taken issue with

1:35:51

it and written about this over the years. But again, the

1:35:53

CIA saying, look, here's how you should do this. And here's

1:35:55

what we want the Air Force to do. Go out there

1:35:58

and make it look like you know what's happening. And

1:36:00

two, again, really to put it even more bluntly, I

1:36:02

mean, it was a public relations campaign and I'm not

1:36:05

by any means the first person to say that. Many

1:36:07

are concerned that the current government iteration

1:36:10

of UAP investigations is effectively the same

1:36:12

thing. And that again, something that

1:36:14

was brought up earlier, the idea that this

1:36:16

is Project Blue Book, whatever iteration, put whatever,

1:36:18

you know, point O after it. I

1:36:21

mean, is that what we're seeing? But again,

1:36:23

the whole point to me really about the

1:36:25

whole CIA controlling of the narrative, we

1:36:28

don't know what this is, but let's try and make it

1:36:30

look to the public like we do so

1:36:32

that we don't instill concern, so that

1:36:34

we don't give, you know,

1:36:36

actually right behind me here, I've got Orson Welles,

1:36:38

War of the Worlds broadcast

1:36:41

on vinyl. Nice. Look

1:36:43

what happened when that aired. Yeah. He

1:36:46

brings, he introduces his book, The Introduction to

1:36:49

Gary Graf's book, UFO is War of

1:36:51

the Worlds and what people's response to that

1:36:53

was. Perhaps the people

1:36:55

at the Robertson panel back in the day knew

1:36:57

that and they said, well, we don't want a

1:37:00

real War of the Worlds scenario where people start

1:37:02

losing their minds if they think that there's something

1:37:04

that the government doesn't have a hold of. So

1:37:06

yeah, our disinformation campaign is, don't

1:37:08

worry citizens, we do know what this is. We're

1:37:10

here to help you. And we've got a

1:37:12

handle on this. In fact, there's not even a

1:37:15

this here. There's nothing to see. Whereas

1:37:17

in fact, all those people in

1:37:19

Point Pleasant, Rich, all those farmers

1:37:21

in the field, Ballet and Amy Michelle

1:37:24

and others have written about all those people in their

1:37:27

bedrooms at night that John Mack had

1:37:30

spoken to and who had said we had these

1:37:32

otherworldly encounters. All these people

1:37:34

who for years and years say big black triangles

1:37:36

flew over our house and we saw the damn

1:37:38

thing. It made no noise. There were white lights

1:37:40

at the three corners and a big red one

1:37:42

in the middle. And these little

1:37:44

orange things like drones that came out of the middle

1:37:47

and flew independently. These

1:37:49

stories persist. How many more damn stories

1:37:51

do we have to hear before we

1:37:53

realize and recognize that there is a

1:37:55

UAP reality in whatever form that takes

1:37:57

and whatever that means? There is a

1:37:59

there. There. Yeah, I'm gonna say not

1:38:02

that anybody asked me but I personally recently

1:38:04

decided that this is not about interstellar travel

1:38:07

I think it's I think it's all local

1:38:09

and Everything at the

1:38:11

same time in ways that we

1:38:13

cannot receive I think we're just being

1:38:15

visited by people that are live on the same

1:38:17

street we do and If they

1:38:20

don't want us to see them when they're mowing their

1:38:22

yard, we don't get to see them. So

1:38:25

You would see the you would see the grass get

1:38:27

shorter Explained

1:38:30

so much. I mean it goes beyond

1:38:32

just the UFO phenomenon Yeah, but

1:38:34

it goes into a whole range of paranormal

1:38:37

phenomena Which is a lot of what I've

1:38:39

heard from people over the years saying, you

1:38:41

know Like people like the late great Brad

1:38:43

Siker who said, you know, the more I

1:38:45

look into this stuff The more I think

1:38:47

it's all connected Whitley Street were saying that

1:38:49

when I interviewed his wife saying Alien

1:38:52

visitation has something to do with

1:38:54

death. Yeah, and it's uncomfortable for

1:38:56

me because I still want to silo it

1:38:59

I don't want to silo it. I want to

1:39:01

think about like when I watched in search of as

1:39:03

the eight-year-old kid and Cryptids are

1:39:05

over here and UFOs are over here

1:39:07

and ghosts are over here. That's a

1:39:09

lot more comfortable for me But

1:39:12

you are right Scott, you know, if you

1:39:14