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versus new on your next verified refurbished

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device. While

1:16

people have been obsessing about the three-headed fish, the

1:18

other fact is for 36 seasons now,

1:21

and I think it's something like 780 episodes of The

1:23

Simpsons, Homer

1:25

Simpson has had a secure job at the

1:27

nuclear power plant. And I think part of

1:30

what the story that, you

1:32

know, the Libs and Ted

1:34

O'Brien are trying to reinforce is

1:36

that this is a transition that

1:38

would allow those big industries in

1:40

those coal communities to continue. Hello,

1:47

I'm Paul Karp, Guardian Australia's chief

1:49

political correspondent, coming to you from

1:51

the lands of the Ngunnawal and

1:53

Nambri peoples. It's the

1:55

Guardian Essential edition of the Australian Politics

1:57

Podcast, and I'm joined by the

1:59

executive... used,

6:01

it really is a fantasy debate. And

6:03

you also asked a number

6:06

of different aspects of three types

6:08

of power, renewable energy, fossil

6:11

fuels and nuclear, and one

6:13

question asking people to rank

6:15

those three in terms of

6:17

their overall which was

6:19

most desirable. So let's start

6:21

with the general, which was

6:23

overall most desirable. So

6:25

renewables significantly, 59% rated as the most desirable,

6:28

23% said nuclear, 19% said

6:34

fossil fuels. Also

6:36

on best for the environment, renewables wins, or

6:38

though given its renewable, you'd expect it to,

6:40

but 55%, 24% nuclear, 21% think fossil fuels

6:42

are best for the environment. And

6:48

then you've got the other two which create

6:50

a little bit more friction in the transition.

6:53

So most expensive, nuclear energy

6:55

38, renewables 35, fossil

6:58

fuels 27. That's

7:00

been a recurring question. Actually during the life

7:02

of the heating up

7:04

of the nuclear debate, the

7:06

relative expense of renewals has

7:09

actually dropped from 40 to 35. So

7:12

the last time we spoke about this

7:14

perception, correct. Because this is

7:16

all perception. This is all trying to map how

7:18

receptive the public is to different energy

7:21

types. The final one which

7:23

creates the most jobs, fossil fuels 39, renewables

7:25

36, nuclear 25. So

7:30

what does that all mean if you wrap it together, I

7:32

think is that there is still a

7:34

bit of a sense that fossil

7:37

fuels on price and jobs has

7:39

the most benefit. And the

7:41

argument that renewables can actually

7:44

replace those hasn't

7:46

landed to the extent that the

7:48

environmental arguments had, which leads the

7:50

door open to something like this

7:52

make believe nuclear policy that can

7:55

actually then sort of give

7:57

people the sense that you don't need to

7:59

lose the stuff. that you value.

8:02

But there are warning signs here

8:04

for Peter Dutton having gone all

8:06

in on nuclear. In

8:08

the most desirable overall,

8:10

nuclear was placed

8:12

least desirable by 45% of

8:15

respondents. That jumped out to me.

8:17

And as you said, most expensive,

8:19

38% is

8:21

up two points from April. And renewables,

8:24

most expensive, 35% is down

8:26

five points since April. So

8:28

nuclear has leapfrogged renewables in

8:30

people's perception of which one is most

8:32

expensive. So some of those labour

8:35

attack lines do seem to be

8:37

getting through. The other aspect I

8:40

want to talk about nuclear is risk

8:43

of safety. So there was a specific

8:45

question there. What did you ask? So

8:48

we asked, how concerned are you about

8:50

the safety of building and running nuclear

8:52

power plants in Australia? 26% very concerned,

8:54

35% somewhat concerned.

8:57

So 61% on the concerned line,

8:59

25% not that concerned, 14% not concerned at all. Bit

9:05

of an age split here. The older you

9:07

are, the more... This is a bit counterintuitive

9:09

to me because older people were born

9:12

when the bomb was a thing. But

9:15

the older you are, the more likely you

9:17

are not to be concerned. The heightened concerns

9:19

are actually with younger voters. So this idea

9:22

that nuclear has started

9:24

this new story doesn't

9:28

hold with these figures, or maybe it's

9:30

just the Simpsons memes to a new

9:32

generation. Although the point I

9:34

make in my column, which I do want to

9:36

share with you, Paul, is that while people have

9:38

been obsessing about the three-headed fish, the other fact

9:40

is for 36 seasons now, and I think

9:43

it's something like 780 episodes of the Simpsons,

9:46

Homer Simpson has had a secure job

9:48

at the nuclear power plant. And I

9:50

think part of what the

9:52

story that the Libs and

9:55

Ted O'Brien are trying to reinforce

9:57

is that this is a transition.