0:01

This podcast is proudly supported by

0:04

Netflix, presenting Maestro, nominated for eight

0:06

Critics Choice Awards, including Best Picture,

0:08

Best Director and Actor Bradley Cooper,

0:10

and Best Actress Carrie Mulligan, alongside

0:12

an ensemble cast that features Matt

0:15

Bomer, Maya Hawke, and Sarah Silverman.

0:17

Time Magazine calls it grand-scale filmmaking that's

0:20

also bracingly intimate, one of the best

0:22

pictures of the year. With

0:25

expert craftsmanship from Leonard Bernstein

0:27

prosthetic makeup designer Kazuhiro, spectacular

0:30

cinematography from Matthew Levittique, and

0:32

outstanding costume design by Mark Bridges, Maestro,

0:35

an epic love story spanning five

0:37

decades for your consideration

0:39

in all categories. Hi

0:53

everyone, and thank you for tuning in to the 520th

0:55

episode of The Hollywood Reporter's Awards

0:57

Chatter podcast. I'm the host Scott

0:59

Feinberg, and my guest today is

1:01

a tremendously gifted stage and screen

1:03

actress who is equally at home

1:05

in dramas, comedies, musicals, and everything

1:07

in between. There's something

1:09

about her and colors. Indeed,

1:12

the two projects for which she is

1:14

best known are the Netflix comedy-turned-drama series

1:16

Orange is the New Black, on which

1:18

she appeared from 2013 through

1:21

2019 with The Daily Beast calling her

1:23

the breakout actress of the show, and

1:26

the musical The Color Purple, which

1:28

she was a part of on Broadway from 2015 through 2017, resulting in

1:30

a Grammy win and

1:34

a Tony nomination, and to

1:36

which she has returned for the film version

1:38

that has been a huge hit since debuting

1:40

in theaters on Christmas Day of 2023, and

1:43

which has already brought her best

1:45

supporting actress Golden Globe and Critics

1:48

Choice Award nominations with additional recognition

1:50

likely to come. Danielle

1:52

Brooks. Danielle

1:55

Brooks. Danielle

1:58

Brooks. Over the

2:00

course of a conversation at the London West Hollywood Over

2:04

the course of a conversation at the

2:06

London West Hollywood hotel the 34 year

2:08

old and I discussed her journey from

2:10

Greenville, South Carolina to Juilliard to fame

2:13

how her part on orange is How

2:17

her part on orange is the new black

2:20

Expanded from two episodes to series regular to

2:22

show stealer and how the color

2:24

purple first entered the picture for her during

2:26

its fourth season during its fourth season Why

2:29

she doubted herself even when

2:32

she was simultaneously Starring in and garnering massive

2:34

acclaim for both of those productions and how

2:36

she felt years later when she wasn't certain

2:39

you and

2:58

how she felt years later and How

3:01

she felt years later when it was far from

3:03

certain that she would be offered the chance to

3:05

reprise her part And

3:10

how she felt years later when it was far from certain

3:12

that she would be offered the chance to be a part

3:27

Daniel Brooks, I'm very excited to get

3:29

to have you on the podcast I'm

3:32

trying to think I think how

3:34

many years later when it looked on yeah That

3:36

she would be offered three hits doing a Q&A

3:39

with you and all the and how he saw

3:41

all the key Ensembles uncertain that she would be

3:43

offered around this really part Amazing,

3:45

but not a prize of the color purple

3:47

musical plus 10 years. So without further ado

3:51

Let's go. We're always go places, but this

3:54

is one thing. This has been fun to

3:56

watch. Thank you It's been fun to be

3:58

in it like you're right Right, I

4:00

was such a baby when Orange is New Black came

4:02

out and I was so new, you

4:05

know, a girl from South

4:07

Carolina knew nothing

4:09

about Hollywood and

4:11

how I was gonna fit into this

4:13

world and so I feel like the 10

4:16

to 11 years has been a lot of growth

4:18

which I'm sure you've seen from the outside. No

4:21

but you came in like

4:23

I think you were fully

4:25

formed you just needed the opportunity to anyway

4:27

we'll get into all of this but to

4:29

go back you sort of just alluded to

4:31

this but where specifically were

4:33

you born and raised and what did your

4:35

folks do for a living? Okay so this is

4:38

where it gets a little confusing. Born Augusta,

4:41

Georgia. Raised South

4:43

Carolina. Simpsonville, South Carolina

4:45

to be exact. I used to say

4:47

Greenville because it's a city and everybody

4:49

knows Greenville but I'm really come from

4:52

a small town of Simpsonville. Got it.

4:54

Yeah. And your folks? My

4:56

mother is a minister and also a

4:59

teacher. She teaches fifth

5:01

grade at the elementary school I

5:03

attended. Oh cool. And my daddy

5:06

works at BMW the plant there

5:08

moving parts and he does all

5:10

that kind of stuff. Nice.

5:13

Well okay so from what

5:15

I understand this all sort of

5:17

started at six. Yes. Well

5:19

how does what happens at six where they're

5:21

like let's get let's get her

5:24

on the on the race track because it

5:26

seems like since then people knew

5:28

you were going places. Yeah six.

5:30

It started in church. I did

5:32

a church play and I always have

5:35

felt like church is very similar to

5:37

the theater which is where I really

5:39

live. That's my world but

5:42

they're so similar. You know

5:44

you have the pastor who's like a director

5:46

you have the choir who's like the

5:49

ensemble you know you have a playbill

5:51

and you have a church

5:53

program. You have the music you

5:56

know for those musical theater people

5:58

out there You have the music

6:00

which symbolic to. Me of musical

6:02

theater in and see how old

6:05

is moving parts with at the

6:07

end of the day is to

6:09

make people feel something to be

6:12

changed to be moved to see

6:14

themselves as also when you have

6:16

the bible their parables, this story

6:18

there fables so I just fell.

6:21

In love with the theater because of

6:23

the church and we did a lot

6:25

of tears plays and I played baby

6:28

girl as six years old and everyone

6:30

in church. With Tomasi. So good. I

6:32

literally. Had one line at all

6:34

as in would lauer of a

6:36

don't remember at one line. Everybody

6:39

loved it and so from there

6:41

I and my mom sound all

6:43

of these theater programs in my

6:45

home town to put me And

6:47

so I really do credit Arts

6:49

Education for helping mold me. Well,

6:51

it's interesting because there's different. Children's.

6:54

Theatre and local theater programs that you

6:56

spoken about than a little bit as.

6:59

Normal. High School here and before we

7:01

get so, those as big as. Well

7:05

as the really amazed. I mean like the.

7:07

The. Juilliard before Juilliard? Yeah, on

7:10

Super. First. Your.

7:12

First exposure. This is where it starts at

7:14

one of many things where it starts to

7:16

get. Almost eerie how

7:19

things are kind of faded.

7:21

What? Was your first exposure to.

7:24

New. York has come about and what

7:26

is your new home with that. Had

7:28

a New York them about South fifteen

7:30

years old and I had one this

7:33

internship with Bravo. it was called Bravo

7:35

on the set and they were taking

7:37

like ten to twenty keys to New

7:39

York with the parents to teach us

7:41

about how to make our own soil

7:44

film and some. Me and my father

7:46

went. And we had

7:48

some downtime and my dad. Took

7:51

me to my first Broadway. so. Now

7:53

at the time they were only two black.

7:55

Bra way Cells which was the Lion

7:58

King break or the color purple. And

8:02

my father chose the color purple.

8:04

And thank God he did. I

8:06

mean, I was 15 years old

8:09

and I was doing a lot of

8:11

theater in Greenville, but just like just

8:14

rolling around acting like animals, like

8:16

nothing major, like tipping

8:19

my toe in the Shakespeare. I didn't know

8:21

anything. But when I saw

8:23

the color purple and

8:26

I sat all the way in the mezzanine

8:28

high above and I saw

8:30

these two black girls in

8:32

a tree singing, hey,

8:34

sisto, what you gonna do? I

8:37

was like, oh my gosh,

8:40

this is, I found my path. This

8:42

is the path. I don't know how I'm gonna get there, but

8:45

I got to make it to Broadway. I

8:47

have to do this. And

8:49

so cut to two years

8:51

later, 17 years old, I

8:54

ended up attending Juilliard. Now,

8:57

before actual

8:59

Juilliard, there's a special

9:02

program in your own town,

9:05

right? Which this probably,

9:08

there wouldn't have been real Juilliard in the film, right? Oh no. So

9:11

what would, I mean, this is its own

9:13

thing of like having to audition, right? And

9:15

focus, I think even boarding, right? Yes, we

9:18

had to audition. I auditioned

9:20

with a sonnet from Shakespeare and

9:22

a poem from a guy who wrote

9:24

poetry at my church because

9:27

I did not even know what a monologue was. And

9:30

so I used this poem, I got into

9:32

this governor's school. We lived on campus for

9:34

two years. It was a class

9:36

in the theater department. It was a class maybe

9:38

of like 12 students or

9:41

something like that. Only black girl in the class.

9:44

And I am learning IPA, which

9:47

is International Phonetic Alphabet. I'm learning

9:49

what a monologue finally is, how

9:51

to break down the text. We're having,

9:54

you know, all of these guest artists

9:56

come in, like Andre De Shields came

9:58

in one time. And

10:00

we're just, you know, I'm learning. I

10:03

am soaking up everything.

10:06

And when I went there,

10:09

I noticed that all of the

10:11

Black girls that were coming up before me

10:13

were getting into Juilliard. So that was Stacy

10:16

Scott, which you all don't know yet, but she's

10:18

amazing, Tiana Paris, and Nicole Bahari.

10:21

And I was like, I don't know what Juilliard is.

10:24

And at the time, I was calling it

10:26

Juilliard, because I had no idea. I'm like, I

10:28

don't know what Juilliard is, but I'm

10:30

gonna audition. Because at the

10:32

time, Scott was so fearless

10:34

at the time. It was

10:36

like, you couldn't tell me. I had

10:38

nothing to lose, nothing to lose. So

10:41

I applied, ended up

10:43

getting into Juilliard. Let

10:45

me pause you there. So, because you applied

10:49

and then you, your

10:51

audition, you didn't go to New

10:53

York, right? So they do this out of Chicago as

10:55

well? That's where we start. So the

10:57

high school takes all of the

10:59

kids to something called Unified in

11:02

Chicago, where you audition for all

11:04

of the top theater schools. So

11:06

Carnegie, Melon, Juilliard, NCSA, NYU, SCAD,

11:11

all of them are there. And so

11:13

yeah, I've applied, or did that.

11:16

And from then on,

11:18

they call their favorites to

11:21

New York. So out of all

11:23

of the places people audition, New

11:25

York, LA, Chicago, they only bring

11:27

40 to New York

11:29

to do a two-day workshop to

11:32

see who their final 18 is

11:34

gonna be, because the school only accepts 18. So

11:38

what did you audition with in Chicago? Oh

11:41

yes, I auditioned with a

11:44

winner's tale, Hermione, and

11:46

the piano lesson, August Wilson. People

11:49

need to know if they don't

11:51

already know, this is your

11:53

second Broadway show. So it all just

11:55

comes back around and around. It's unbelievable.

11:58

But okay, so let's see. stick

12:00

with these mind-blowing stories. Yeah.

12:02

When you're now, I think

12:06

at this point, brought to New York for

12:08

round two or whatever, who did you meet?

12:10

I already know where you're going. Right? Who'd

12:13

you meet there? So, I'm there and

12:15

I happened to meet a bunch of

12:17

kids from all of these different

12:20

cities, Atlanta, from everywhere,

12:22

China, Iceland. We

12:25

had people from New Jersey,

12:27

but there happened to be this kid

12:29

from DC and his

12:31

name was Corey Hawkins. Also,

12:34

now in the color purple, among

12:36

many other things, but we got another one too.

12:39

You can't make this spell up. You get it?

12:41

This is like a script. It would be rejected

12:43

as a script. Yeah, like, nope. It's too weird,

12:45

too far out. Okay, now there's another person there

12:47

from Atlanta. Yes, there is

12:50

another young woman from Atlanta. And I

12:52

have to say this too, Scott, because

12:54

my mindset really had to shift because

12:56

when I was at the governor's school, being the

12:58

only black girl in that particular theater

13:01

class, not the whole school, but

13:03

the theater class, I did not see

13:05

the potential of there

13:08

being more than one black girl in

13:10

the school at Juilliard in my class.

13:13

And there happened to be a young

13:15

woman named Joaquin Calacango, who

13:18

has now become my best friend,

13:20

who was also auditioning for Juilliard.

13:23

And we happened to get in together. And

13:25

that's when my mind opened up to, oh

13:28

my gosh, there can be more than one

13:30

of us out here doing this thing. And

13:32

she, by the way, will know, I think

13:35

it was, was

13:37

it the most recent or two Tonys ago?

13:40

Two Tonys ago now. First, she

13:42

blew the roof off the place with a

13:44

song. And

13:47

then then one, a Tony. So

13:50

all three of you guys from that

13:52

class of Juilliard and probably others who

13:54

I'm not as familiar with are doing

13:56

great. But speaking of though,

13:59

that that final stage of actually, so you

14:02

go from Chicago to New York and then finding

14:04

out what happens. First

14:06

of all, who's Peaches? Oh, Lord. I didn't

14:08

know if we were going to go there. I did not know if we were going

14:10

to go there, Scott. So

14:16

let me tell you about Peaches.

14:19

When I was at auditioning for Juilliard, we

14:21

had the two days to

14:23

make an impression. I missed the

14:26

first day because the first day

14:28

was a huge snowstorm. And

14:30

so I was so scared. I was like, oh my gosh,

14:32

mom, I don't know if I'm going to make it in.

14:35

So the last, it was like 20 of us who had

14:37

missed the first day out of the 40. So

14:40

they sent us all in the room and was like, okay,

14:42

introduce yourself. So we introduced ourselves and

14:44

I was like, I got to make an impression. I

14:46

got to let them know who I am. So

14:49

instead of just sitting down like everyone

14:51

else did, I stood up and

14:53

I said, hey, y'all, my name is Peaches.

14:55

And everybody was like laughing. Who is this? Who

14:57

is this girl? And I immediately said, I'm just

15:00

kidding. My name is Danielle Brooks and I'm from

15:02

Greenville, South Carolina. And

15:10

that never left me. So

15:13

the first year at Juilliard, everyone

15:16

called me Peaches. Well, it

15:18

worked. It did its job.

15:21

So do you remember now, I guess you

15:24

go back from your audition in New

15:26

York without, they don't give you the

15:28

result there. No. So you're back

15:31

in Greenville? Back in Greenville in my

15:33

social studies class. And

15:35

I see a number that says 917 on

15:39

my phone because at this point, you know,

15:41

colleges are calling. So I'm

15:43

in that class learning whatever we learning. And

15:45

I looked down and it starts to vibrate

15:48

and I immediately run out and I

15:50

ended up going into the boys bathroom

15:52

because I was the first one I

15:55

saw. I was like, privacy, boys bathroom.

15:57

And I ran into the boys bathroom. there

16:00

and it's Kathy Hood, the

16:02

director of Juilliard Drama Division, and she's

16:04

like, hi Danielle, I'd love to welcome

16:07

you to group 40. And

16:09

I ran around that campus

16:12

screaming, crying, I found my teachers. That's

16:14

the first thing I did. I found

16:16

my teachers and they were super excited.

16:18

I ran around the campus like, oh

16:20

my god, I got it. And everybody,

16:22

because it's an art school, you have

16:24

singers that do opera, you have dancers

16:26

who are doing ballet. So they

16:28

know what this is, and everyone was super

16:30

excited for me. Yeah, never forget

16:32

it. So you're at Juilliard from

16:37

07 to 11, 2011.

16:39

That means living in the big city,

16:42

grinding. We've had other people on here,

16:44

I think first class of Juilliard, I

16:47

believe ever was Patti LuPone. Yes. And

16:49

you know, talking about just like it

16:51

can beat the hell out of

16:53

you. Oh yeah. How was it for coming

16:56

out of Juilliard? Well, even just being there,

16:58

you know, was it, was it, could you

17:00

call it enjoyable in the

17:03

moment? Or was it really just

17:05

like, like bootcamp? It was

17:07

bootcamp. It was really hard to adjust to

17:09

Juilliard for me because I was 17. And

17:12

the oldest in my class of 18 students

17:14

was 31. Oh wow. So that's

17:16

a huge age gap, right? And

17:19

so there was a lot of doubt of

17:22

am I really ready for this? So I even had

17:24

a teacher at the time, not even

17:26

a teacher, she was a director, guest director say to

17:29

me, you should take some time off because

17:31

you need more life experience. Like go to

17:33

Africa or something and like go get some

17:35

life experience. And that really stuck with me

17:37

for a long time. But then I thought

17:40

to myself, I said, but I'm living life. That

17:42

is my life experience. Like why don't, like, what

17:44

do I have to do have this traumatic

17:46

thing happen to me to have life experience?

17:48

Like I'm living it. So I

17:51

did not stop Juilliard take time

17:53

off. I continued and it was challenging

17:55

because they're teaching you how to

17:57

talk and how to walk in. Alex.

18:00

and you're shaping

18:02

your thoughts, but at the same time, I'm learning how to be

18:04

a woman. I'm having

18:06

these other experiences of dating for

18:08

the first time and all of these

18:11

things. So it was trippy.

18:13

But what really got me, Scott, was

18:16

I just loved the

18:18

craft and I loved the play

18:20

of it all. But then

18:23

I realized there's a business side and

18:25

I was not ready for the business side.

18:29

So what was your first exposure

18:31

to the business side and realizing

18:33

that you might have some learning

18:35

there to do? Auditioning. Really?

18:39

Because Juilliard teaches you how to be a better

18:41

actor. It does not teach you how to

18:43

audition. Any role that

18:45

you get there is handed to you. You

18:47

do not go through an audition process. So

18:50

I get out into this big bad world

18:52

and I'm now at Telsi's office and

18:55

I'm forgetting my lines because I'm

18:57

so nervous. All of

18:59

these things were just occurring because I

19:02

was so scared of what

19:04

was happening. There were so many new elements.

19:06

Well, also, correct me if I'm wrong, but

19:09

I don't know. Does Juilliard do anything to

19:11

specifically help with screen acting? No.

19:13

And not when I was there. I think

19:15

now they're starting to. But when I

19:18

was there, hell no. Life's all

19:20

fear. I mean,

19:22

what you've talked about is that your

19:24

first job, I

19:26

think, out of Juilliard was a

19:28

TV pilot and

19:31

you're there and you're talking about forgetting lines

19:33

and stuff. Oh my God. Sky,

19:36

you got it. Right? How are

19:38

you supposed to know how to handle yourself where suddenly

19:40

there's a camera in your face? Yeah,

19:42

that's what happened. I would never forget. It

19:44

was so embarrassing. So I'm in Telsi's office,

19:46

which is another full circle because he also

19:48

cast me in Color Purple. Both

19:50

of them. Bernie Telsi. Shout out

19:53

to him. And so I was in that

19:55

first audition for this pilot called

19:57

Modern Love, and the character

19:59

was. supposed to be gothic-like. That's how they

20:02

wrote her, but she was a secretary

20:04

in the office. And they said she

20:06

had, I don't know, piercings

20:08

everywhere. And I tried to go in

20:11

being that. And I would never forget,

20:13

I put a piercing in my nose, a fake one. And

20:16

as I'm saying the lines, they

20:18

start to fall out. It's

20:20

not even a fall out.

20:23

It's just horrible. And I remember walking

20:25

out of there, going to the bathroom,

20:28

looking myself in the mirror. And I said, Danielle,

20:30

you got to go back in there. You have

20:32

to go back in there because you've got to

20:34

show Telsi that you can do this. And

20:37

as soon as I walked out to

20:39

go back in, Telsi came and found

20:41

me. And he said, I know you're capable

20:43

of more. I want you to go back

20:45

in there and be yourself. And

20:48

we're going to have you improv this thing. And

20:50

I did. And I got the job.

20:53

So just, it's so cool when you

20:55

have people really believing in you and

20:57

know what you're talented and capable of,

21:00

because Telsi at the time was

21:03

coming in to help with auditions. Like he came

21:05

in maybe two or three times to teach a

21:07

class at Juilliard. And

21:09

so he did get to see what I

21:12

was capable of in a situation

21:14

where it wasn't as much pressure. And

21:17

so, yeah, I just am grateful for people

21:19

who like help you along the way. That's

21:21

great. Well, I think another person

21:23

from Juilliard gets you your first

21:27

job in regional theater. All this right.

21:29

How do you know all of this?

21:31

This is amazing. Can I have

21:34

you every time I do an interview? Well,

21:38

I mean, it's your story is,

21:41

it really is amazing how all these pieces

21:43

come back together. But in this case, you

21:46

know, on the one hand, I'm sure a lot of people look

21:48

at your, your, you know, timeline

21:51

and they must be like, damn,

21:53

I'm jealous because it looks like you just

21:55

came out and were, and you

21:58

to some extent, there wasn't like years. and

22:00

years of like, but I

22:02

know in the moment it felt like a

22:04

struggle. And I say glad you

22:06

bring that up because I used to say

22:08

that too, like, always like, this is taking

22:10

forever to get a job. And then you talk

22:13

to an actor who's been doing like the struggle thing

22:15

for 10, 15 years and like, Oh, wow, I did

22:18

kind of get this out of Juilliard.

22:20

But there was a lot of sacrifices

22:22

along the way, going to

22:24

that governor's school, not getting to have

22:26

a regular prom and do all the

22:29

sports events. Like there was, we was in those

22:31

rooms going over those my loss

22:34

for hours, like a musician that

22:36

spends eight to 10 hours a

22:38

day working on the craft. That's

22:40

what we were doing. And so

22:42

to get to coming out

22:44

of Juilliard, I did go

22:47

through some struggle. I worked a lot

22:49

of odd jobs, you know,

22:51

painting in Juilliard, you know, working

22:53

in the international center

22:55

at Juilliard, all these weird, crazy

22:57

typist for an elderly woman. I

23:00

worked at a restaurant

23:02

called Fred's on 60 something

23:04

street. Like I did

23:07

everything to get to just

23:12

have the wherewithal to

23:15

pay for my Metro

23:17

card to go to the audition. You know

23:19

what I mean? So

23:22

yeah, we're here. I don't know where

23:24

we're going. Well,

23:27

believe it or not, it's

23:29

another weird Juilliard throwback because

23:32

the first time you heard about something

23:35

called Orange is the New Black was not because

23:37

they had come to you, right? Well,

23:40

they they did come to me

23:43

as far as an audition. But

23:45

okay, but okay, so didn't

23:47

you though, help

23:49

somebody else first? There

23:51

was you mean in the audition? So

23:54

one of your one of your

23:56

classmates at Juilliard is Samira Wiley.

23:58

Yes, yes. Yes. I

24:01

understood it. Maybe I'm wrong,

24:04

but like, so she was

24:06

auditioning. Oh, I did help her. I

24:08

got I helped her get her. And

24:10

this was before you even know I had

24:13

booked it. Oh, you'd already booked it. And

24:16

I mean, I mean, I literally did like,

24:18

I don't even know if I started the

24:20

episode, the first episode yet, but I had

24:23

just booked. Okay. And so she

24:25

hits me up after hearing it because you know, as

24:27

Juilliard kids are close. Yes. And

24:29

I have an audition for Poussé. Yes. And

24:32

I'm like, oh, well, let's get together. Let's

24:34

go over it because that's how what school

24:36

we start from. You know, we

24:38

got to help each other. So I

24:40

ended up helping her with her

24:42

audition and she ended up. Yes.

24:45

So you and Tasty and Poussé.

24:47

And winning an emulator for Handmaid's

24:49

Tale. But let's go back then.

24:51

Because now that I know that

24:54

you were there even before that,

24:56

what how did you first hear

24:58

about Orange? Oh my gosh. So

25:01

see, this is throwback time because at

25:03

the time Netflix was considered a streaming

25:06

new service. Nobody knew what it was

25:08

going to be. It was like a

25:10

web series. People were calling it. People

25:13

didn't even want to use the word

25:15

binging at the time, which is all

25:17

we do now. And

25:19

so I was actually doing some

25:22

theater, regional theater, a

25:24

servant of two masters, really excited about

25:26

it. It paid my rent. It was like

25:28

being a clown. I had a great time

25:31

and I get a call saying, hey, they

25:34

want you to audition for this. And I

25:36

was like, sure. It's only one or two

25:38

episodes because literally I have the breakdown. The

25:40

breakdown said one or two episodes. I'm

25:43

like, great. I have two, three weeks off. I

25:45

can go and maybe do this thing and go

25:47

right back into the regional. And

25:50

then I auditioned and they

25:52

my team called me. And I was like, I think

25:54

this is going to be way more than an

25:56

episode or two. You have to decide

25:59

are you going to. to do this or not.

26:01

And to be honest, I almost didn't take

26:03

Orange is the New Black because I

26:06

had to be in the script. It

26:09

said that Tasty was topless for a

26:11

shower scene. This is the first scene

26:13

where we meet in the actual show,

26:15

we eventually meet her

26:17

and she says she's in the

26:20

shower with Taylor, show this character

26:22

and you got some

26:24

TV titties. You got some nice TV

26:26

titties. Now get out the shower. And

26:29

I think I thought that I would have

26:31

to expose my boogums. And I did not,

26:33

but I remember going

26:37

back to Cathy Hood, going back to

26:39

all of these casting directors, Meg Simon,

26:41

just people I had met, saying, do

26:43

you think this is going to mess up my

26:45

career? And they were like, girl, let's

26:47

go take that job. So

26:50

I went and I did the job and it's

26:52

changed my life. Well, so I

26:55

think, though, specifically the audition we should talk

26:57

about, because this is genius,

26:59

right? And casting this. And

27:03

when you first go in there, how

27:06

much did what did you did? You just have

27:08

a side? Did you have some context about who

27:10

this person was? I remember

27:13

getting a half a page of sides, which

27:16

is what we talked about. It was

27:18

you've got them nice TV titties. And

27:20

at the time, because I was

27:22

so new to auditioning, I

27:25

was bringing all of the

27:27

things in. I was the

27:29

actor that had the towel. I almost

27:31

came in with a

27:36

shower rod, but thank God I didn't

27:38

do that. And I remember reading

27:41

it and thinking, oh my gosh, I'm about to

27:43

play a stereotype and I don't want to do

27:45

that. And before I even

27:48

started the lines, she said,

27:50

Jen Houston said, Danielle, she's

27:52

the light, even though it's

27:54

heavy, it's a prisoner. You know, she really has

27:57

a lot of joy. And I was like. I

28:00

think this is for me because that's the

28:02

direction I was already going to go with it.

28:05

And so I did the take, she

28:07

loved it. And a few days later,

28:09

I had gotten the

28:11

job. And you know, you

28:14

talked about asking casting directors

28:16

if it was the right thing to do,

28:18

but you also, so you mentioned mom's minister.

28:20

Yes, my minister. Was

28:23

that a tough conversation? It was. My

28:25

mom's a minister, my father's a deacon.

28:28

And my mom really at the

28:30

time was like, don't take the job. She

28:32

did not want me to. And they

28:34

come in from small towns, they're scared,

28:36

they're baby girls out in big city

28:38

doing this acting thing and thinking, what

28:41

the heck, she's going to play an

28:43

inmate now. And they wanted

28:45

to show her titties. It was a

28:47

lot. But my dad

28:49

was the one to actually say, follow

28:51

your heart. And so I

28:54

did. And now I think

28:56

mom and dad are very happy. They're happy you did

28:58

it. Now,

29:01

Genji Koyan, who was the creator

29:03

and showrunner, has often

29:05

spoken about, you know, if

29:08

you looked at the key art or whatever

29:11

for Orange is the New Black, you probably

29:13

saw Taylor Schilling. And so

29:15

this is your, you know, sort

29:19

of, I think the way she said,

29:21

like, you're pretty skinny blonde, white blonde. But

29:24

then she described it, I think this was

29:26

the intention from day one. This

29:28

is a Trojan horse is the way she put it.

29:30

This is going to allow us to

29:33

get them to let us do a show where we

29:35

can then tell the stories of a lot of people

29:37

who don't fit that stereotypical TV,

29:39

you know, the one that

29:42

that historically has been the center of a

29:44

TV show ends up actually being

29:46

just the way it for

29:48

you early on was that

29:51

that was kind of clear that this

29:54

was going to highlight I mean, I guess

29:56

here's here's the real question. So you

29:59

start with the two episodes. How

30:02

long did it take before you realized that your

30:04

character was going to get expanded? Well,

30:09

there was another Juilliard person

30:11

involved, Mario, that was

30:14

a writer. There were two writers from

30:21

Juilliard, if you want to start there. There were

30:23

two writers from Juilliard that were a part of

30:26

it as well. And I ended up hitting them

30:28

up. And they told me they believed

30:30

it was going to be eight episodes

30:32

of Tasty in it. They're going to

30:34

expand it. So I was

30:36

like, oh, snap, that was my first

30:39

weigh in. After that, I had no idea.

30:41

I didn't know we were going to get to

30:43

seven seasons. Yeah, yeah. What?

30:45

I mean, you weren't even though you were

30:47

not made a regular until after season one.

30:49

Right. I was not till second season made

30:52

a regular. And I think that helped to

30:54

say, oh, okay, I guess I'm going to

30:56

be here for a little while. Then they

30:58

start taking you to do all the press

31:00

tour and you're like, okay. And you start hearing

31:02

from fans that you're one of the favorites. I

31:04

was like, okay, we're here. But

31:06

I think the most exciting part

31:08

was knowing like we

31:11

were being loved

31:15

because we were just being ourselves.

31:17

We did not have to go

31:19

to work with Spanx and tight

31:21

clothes and wigs and makeup. We

31:23

were just being who we are.

31:25

And people fell in love with

31:27

that. And that really opened my

31:30

eyes to like, I'm enough in

31:32

this industry, which I, when I

31:34

was auditioning, you know, out

31:36

of Julia, I really struggled with this

31:38

guy. I was like, do I straighten

31:41

my hair to be more attractive in

31:43

people's eyes? Do I keep it curly? Do

31:45

I gain weight so I can be more

31:47

of a funny black woman or do I

31:50

lose weight so I can be come seem

31:52

more attractive? I was so confused on

31:54

what to do. So landing orange

31:57

is a new black really helped to

31:59

settle me to loving and knowing

32:01

that me being me was enough in

32:03

this industry. Totally. One

32:06

question I had is in, you know, again,

32:09

prior to that, you'd never had a

32:12

consistent job on

32:14

a screen acting with screen acting. So

32:17

with theater, you know, from,

32:19

from the minute the day

32:21

starts exactly where your, where

32:24

your character is going. In a villainy,

32:26

you know. Now on TV, you don't

32:28

even know necessarily more than a couple

32:30

episodes ahead of the audience and, and

32:32

your character just to remind

32:34

folks. I mean, we

32:37

learn along the way about her, her

32:39

parents. We learn about

32:43

tragic things that happen

32:45

to loved ones or all

32:47

different things, which you couldn't have known. No.

32:49

I mean, and beyond the fact that you're

32:51

not shooting in sequence, like you would do

32:54

a, a play in sequence or a movie.

32:56

So just how did you acclimate to the

32:58

way to basically having to create a character

33:00

without knowing where it's going? Yeah. It's such

33:03

a good question. That was

33:05

trippy for me because you're right. I

33:07

was taught beginning, middle and

33:09

end being a theater girl. You knew what

33:11

things were happening, but I did not know.

33:13

And it's crazy because I came into tasty

33:16

with a whole bunch of backstory,

33:18

who her parents were, what they

33:20

did. And then I found out she

33:23

was like adopted by V. So

33:26

you had to throw all of that out of the

33:28

window and really take it

33:30

episode by episode, and

33:33

you don't have as much time

33:35

to explore the character as you

33:37

do in theater, which was so

33:39

cool of a skill to learn

33:42

because I was like, we don't have

33:44

time to waste, so bring your best

33:47

foot forward in every decision that

33:49

you make for the character, don't

33:51

waste time. Second guessing things. Just

33:53

go balls to the walls. It's

33:56

okay. It's balls to the walls with

33:58

the character and your choice. is because

34:01

that's what this world needs. That's what

34:03

you have to do with TV. And

34:06

so as I learned at Juilliard, like your

34:08

work doesn't stop once you get the diploma,

34:10

you still learn as you go on the

34:13

job. And that's what this was for me,

34:15

learning on the job. Now, I know you

34:17

said another thing that kind of you had

34:19

to come around to fully

34:22

grasping was that even

34:24

though she is a very funny character

34:28

at times, you can't play for

34:30

the left. So how does that,

34:32

how do you navigate that? Being

34:35

honest, being honest, it's just,

34:38

it's in your blood. I think

34:40

I get my comedic chops from

34:42

my dad, you know, he's so

34:44

funny. And, you know,

34:46

you can study Commedia dell'arte,

34:49

which is the art of comedy, you

34:51

can study that, which we did in

34:53

school. But

34:56

like you just, it's got to be,

34:58

you got to get it. This rhythm, it is,

35:00

it's a skill to it. But

35:02

some of it is just lived within

35:05

your body. Some people just

35:07

naturally aren't funny. Like

35:10

I happen to have that

35:12

skill. Totally. Now you have

35:14

said that it was significant

35:16

to you that Poussé

35:19

pursues tasty.

35:22

Why, as opposed

35:24

to the other way, why was

35:26

that even symbolically important to you?

35:29

Because being

35:31

of bigger size, being a plus size

35:34

girl, I feel like it's easy to

35:36

say that we're the ones chasing

35:39

someone or looking for love

35:41

and wanting that to be

35:43

desired. But sometimes,

35:47

first of all, we are

35:49

desired, number one, like, number

35:51

one. But

35:53

I just wanted that to be the narrative. Like,

35:55

let's change this narrative up where

35:58

Poussé falls in love with tasty. this

36:00

bigger plus size curvaceous dark

36:03

skin, curly hair, woman

36:07

versus the other way around. I

36:09

think that's a true narrative that

36:12

is not exposed or talked about

36:14

or explored enough. And I

36:16

think it's more exciting to see that

36:18

and witness that and to

36:21

tell that story, which I really think

36:23

we need more of, you know, more

36:25

rom coms and more,

36:27

you know, whether it's size five,

36:30

whatever genre to

36:32

really expand our definition of beauty

36:34

in this industry is

36:36

a goal of mine through my work. And

36:39

so anytime I get a chance to do that,

36:41

which I've been able to do even with Peacemaker,

36:44

you know, Adebayo's life was fine.

36:49

Thank you, James. So yeah,

36:51

it's important. That's great. And

36:53

that was obviously a relationship

36:55

that became so central

36:58

to the show and meant a lot to

37:00

the viewers and was really

37:03

at the at the core of some changes

37:05

on that show. When when the first few

37:07

years of Orange is the New Black, I

37:10

remember we covered it at the Emmy's. It

37:12

was a comedy. And then I

37:15

think season four, they re categorized as

37:17

a drama because and

37:20

you know, you can argue about these class. I

37:22

don't know. You could. It was always to me

37:24

sort of a dramedy. Yeah. But the reason they

37:26

did that, I think, was because we'll just, you

37:29

know, spoiler alert, if you're still way the hell

37:31

behind on Orange is the New Black, but just

37:33

for, you know, season four ends

37:35

with Poussey's murder

37:40

in a during a peaceful protest.

37:42

Season five picks up where Tasty

37:45

Now Tasha is leading

37:48

kind of a prison riot, I guess you could

37:50

say. And then we

37:53

come around to the fact where she is falsely

37:56

Tasha's falsely accused of

37:59

killing a guard. and winds

38:01

up being told that or you know

38:03

winds up having to face the rest of her

38:05

life in prison now that is

38:07

tonally very different in

38:10

some way I think from where we

38:12

started out yeah cracking Joe dancing on

38:14

tables rapping right right exactly the rabbit

38:16

and also though you know as as

38:19

I've read what you know people

38:21

wrote about it at the time and what I was

38:23

thinking you know you sort of you're watching the light

38:26

in her eyes which I think

38:28

is your natural default where you're vivacious

38:30

and happy and you see that just

38:32

sapped out of a person so

38:35

I guess I just wonder as as a

38:37

final orange is the new black thing for

38:40

you as you sort

38:42

of read along and saw where

38:44

they were taking your character and where

38:47

this all led up to that

38:49

final serious finale which ends with

38:51

you singing as well seasons just

39:26

what did you make of of

39:28

it just objectively and then what was it like

39:30

for you personally to have to take this character

39:32

in that very different direction

39:34

than it started out in yeah

39:37

oh my god that's full of so

39:39

much goodness there how

39:41

do I start first

39:44

of all it's such a gift to get to

39:46

bounce in between both to

39:48

get to show the comedy but also

39:50

get to show the deepness of

39:53

pain and hurt that people go through

39:55

incarcerated people go through and you know

39:57

we were meeting incarcerated people as we

39:59

were doing doing this, you know, and so

40:01

you do truly, 100% want to show the humanity of who

40:04

these women

40:08

were. But

40:10

yeah, the depths of Tasty,

40:14

I think the biggest thing that I

40:16

learned from playing her was

40:20

there's just the

40:23

purpose, you know, of why

40:25

we're here. Like, is what I

40:28

really enjoyed about playing her was

40:31

you see this woman continuously

40:34

trying to find her

40:36

joy in such the hardest

40:38

place, a prison that she doesn't even

40:40

need to belong there. She has no

40:43

reason to belong there, but

40:45

yet she's trying to climb her way out of

40:47

it and still does find a way to

40:49

find purpose even when she's now there,

40:52

wrongfully accused and

40:54

is spending the rest of her

40:56

life in prison. And so I

40:59

think that's what I've been

41:01

gifted from her is like, when you feel

41:03

at your lowest, there's still

41:05

a reason

41:07

for living. You know, we

41:11

do this whole thing as

41:13

actors, we get to these levels of

41:15

fame where we have voices, but then

41:17

there's moments where you feel so

41:20

small and you feel, will

41:22

I ever get to, you know,

41:25

be a voice for somebody or, you know,

41:28

get to share all of

41:30

myself so that people can

41:33

relate to me and whatever that

41:35

is. And then sometimes you realize

41:37

like you affecting

41:40

your community or your child, even

41:42

if it's just one person truly

41:44

is going to make a difference

41:47

in this world. And I feel

41:49

like that's what I was taught

41:52

with Tasty. And I just really

41:54

kudos to the writers for like really

41:57

going and exploring

41:59

these women in the heart and soul of

42:01

who they are, which is who

42:03

tasty kind of became for

42:06

the show was the heartbeat of

42:08

the show. And so, yeah, that

42:10

was the biggest gift to get

42:12

to not know where

42:14

this thing was going, but

42:16

yet still get to showcase so

42:19

much of what I can

42:21

do as an artist, but also get

42:23

to share the humanity of women

42:25

that are incarcerated and make

42:28

them relatable. It's amazing. And I think

42:31

what what's in some

42:33

ways, if, you know, beyond

42:36

what we are all, you know,

42:38

what we all saw when we were streaming this

42:41

in real time, you know, the performance itself is

42:44

amazing. But then when you learn, as I did

42:46

prepping for this, the what was

42:48

going on in your life at the

42:51

same time. So, I mean, there were

42:53

earlier seasons where I

42:55

guess maybe it's during a hiatus or something,

42:57

you go off and you do an episode

43:00

or whatever of girl. Yeah, where you

43:02

were the first time this is after

43:04

they rightly got called

43:06

for like, wait a minute, there are

43:08

there there's no black people in New

43:11

York or whatever. So you became the

43:13

first black female cast member of girls,

43:15

then you play Aziz Ansari's

43:17

agent on Master of None, you

43:20

know, bits and pieces of things. But then, at the

43:23

very moment that we were just talking about where the

43:25

where Orange is the New Black got really

43:28

complicated, like around season four, I

43:30

think, is right when you now

43:33

come around back to the color

43:35

purple. Now, this is for people

43:37

who don't know. Obviously,

43:41

it starts out as Alice

43:43

Walker book, 1985 film.

43:46

And then they bring it, you

43:49

know, as the musical that you

43:51

saw the musical version, then gets

43:53

revived in 2015. And

43:55

you this is for

43:58

you to be in basically It's

44:00

you making your Broadway debut alongside

44:03

two other people making theirs, Cynthia

44:05

Rivo and Jennifer Hudson and This

44:10

is at the same time that you're

44:12

going into season four of orange. How

44:15

was that even possible? One

44:20

time someone labeled me a journalist like

44:22

me labeled me a hardest

44:24

working woman in showbiz It

44:27

was like the hours were insane

44:29

I Was shooting oranges

44:31

a new black in the morning, so it

44:33

would be four or five a.m. Call You

44:37

go in hair and makeup do what you need to

44:39

do till about twelve twelve o'clock

44:42

We go into rehearsals for

44:44

color purple. That's in Times

44:46

Square. So mind you were shooting oranges

44:49

a new black and Queens Go

44:52

to rehearsals in Times Square to

44:54

twelve to say maybe five take

44:56

a Hour and a half two hours

44:58

lunch break and then go do a

45:01

show for previews that night until 11

45:04

greet all of the fans don't

45:06

get home to 12 because I lived in

45:08

Brooklyn and Do

45:11

it all over the next day and so

45:13

it was a lot it was like in

45:16

the head the material of oranges new black

45:18

and How much I

45:21

was pulling the weight that season was

45:23

the most I had ever done For

45:26

orange it was the heaviest material Poussé

45:29

dies like you said she starts this

45:31

riot all this stuff So

45:33

I was like memorizing crazy over here

45:35

working on the character of tasty over

45:37

here and also prepping

45:40

for my first Broadway show

45:42

on the other side of town and

45:46

I still today don't really

45:48

know how I did it because now

45:50

that I'm in my 30s. I would never do it again Oh

46:00

my god, so yeah, it was

46:02

it was the most thrilling time

46:04

though because as an actor Like

46:08

that's what you want. You

46:10

want to work you want to tell stories

46:12

you want to Like

46:14

learn and expand your skill set.

46:16

I was doing it all Tired

46:19

as hell, but it was one

46:21

of those moments that I would just forever

46:24

be grateful That I got

46:26

to do both now you have

46:28

said that the It

46:30

was I think in that time where you're it

46:32

would be understandable if this was just the

46:35

result of exhaustion or whatever but

46:37

you've said that you Really

46:40

started to feel at that time what

46:42

you've called Imposter syndrome.

46:44

Yeah, which by the way has come up I

46:46

think it was like Jennifer Lawrence

46:48

and a lot of people on this podcast

46:50

who have been really yeah, you know sudden

46:53

Fame in a sense. Oh, yeah, and I guess

46:55

I wonder for you though Cuz

46:58

you know to me on the one hand I

47:00

could see that being like If

47:02

ever there's time to feel confident that

47:04

Netflix watch you at the same time

47:06

Broadway one year, you know Yeah, it's

47:09

overwhelming, but You

47:11

should feel good about yourself. Yeah, and yet

47:13

you were you were not no not at

47:15

the time And so it was

47:18

right when I had and you

47:20

said it to let's go back So you did

47:22

say about this instant fame thing and

47:24

you're right Orange is

47:27

a new drug orange is the new black

47:29

dropped in 13 hours. We became famous Over

47:33

13 hours. I stepped outside and

47:35

my world had changed. I

47:38

am 22 years old I

47:40

am from a small town and now

47:42

I'm like my life's different So

47:45

that was a lot to process So

47:48

a few years later get the

47:50

color purple and now

47:52

I'm Tony nominated And this is

47:54

awesome. This is what we wanted.

47:56

I was so grateful

47:58

for this moment But now I'm like,

48:01

how the heck did I get this moment?

48:04

Am I really deserving of this moment? I

48:06

start to doubt myself. I'm like, they're gonna,

48:08

they're gonna find out I'm a fraud. They're

48:10

gonna find out that I'm actually not this

48:13

talented and that they've got the wrong girl.

48:15

And I was believing it was too good

48:17

to be true. Can I just

48:19

note you're also hearing from what

48:22

I understand, because I remember I think

48:24

Jennifer Hudson was pretty close with Maritha

48:26

Franklin. She comes to see you guys.

48:28

She's gushing about your performance, right?

48:30

Like people like that. That was the

48:32

hot ticket. Everybody came to see it.

48:35

Everybody came to see

48:37

it from Octavia Spencer

48:39

to, I want

48:42

to say the Washington, Felicia Rashad.

48:46

The list goes on. And that's when you

48:48

first crossed paths with Oprah. That's when I

48:51

first crossed paths. Yes. Oh,

48:53

yeah. Just wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's

48:55

perfect. And maybe Steven Spielberg. Right, right.

48:58

Yeah, he came to see it. So

49:01

how'd you get past that? That?

49:05

Well, each character gives

49:07

you a gift. And playing

49:10

Sophia is what saved me

49:12

because she is the strongest

49:14

bird in that tree. And

49:17

every night I sing a song called Hell

49:19

No. And she says all my

49:22

life I had to fight. And

49:24

that is literally what I had to do.

49:26

I had to fight for myself. You

49:29

know, in her situation, she's fighting

49:31

to break generational curses

49:33

and fight for to

49:36

be respected. But for

49:38

me, my fight was internal. It

49:41

was fighting every day to say I

49:43

am worthy of this moment. I'm not

49:45

going to let this pass me by

49:47

because of this self-doubt that I have.

49:49

So I fought every day on that

49:51

stage, internally my own

49:53

issues. And so

49:56

I say that Sophia helped

49:58

me to find. my power. And

50:01

then when I got the chance to

50:03

play her again, she's

50:05

helped me to own the power. So

50:08

now I can live in it and I've marinated

50:10

in it and I believe it with all

50:12

my being that when good

50:15

things happen to me, I am

50:17

deserving of those moments. And

50:20

I don't have to second guess them.

50:22

No, it's totally. And we'll just note

50:24

that in between your color

50:26

purple experiences. So the first one, I

50:28

guess, December

50:30

2015 through I think January 2017. And then obviously

50:36

December 2023, at

50:38

least is when the public got to first see

50:41

the film version. But in between that, just briefly

50:43

get a note because I know these were all

50:46

important things when they're happening. 2019 clemency,

50:49

you're in there with Alfre, what is this

50:51

is the movie that wins Sundance

50:54

Grand Jury Award, you're in

50:56

this case on the other side of a prison

51:01

window as the ex-wife of

51:03

an inmate. There's the

51:06

all black cast of Much Ado

51:08

About Nothing, Shakespeare in the Park,

51:10

which was filmed for PBS Great

51:12

Performances. There's the piano

51:15

lesson on Broadway with

51:18

the Jacksons with Nia Richardson and

51:20

Samuel, which

51:22

again comes back to the part you played. But so

51:26

we have many people have now seen a

51:29

kind of viral video of

51:32

you being told by Oprah that you

51:34

were gonna again play Sophia in the

51:36

film version of the Color Purple. But

51:38

it's also kind of hard to imagine

51:40

that that ever would not have been

51:42

the case. So my question to you

51:44

is, when you heard they're gonna do

51:46

a movie version of that, did

51:48

you kind of think in the bag your head like,

51:52

I assume they're coming to me? Of

51:54

course. Yeah. Yeah. But

52:00

that was not the case. And

52:02

I had a good relationship with our wonderful

52:04

producer, Scott Sanders. I would

52:07

text him being like, hey,

52:09

I heard y'all are doing it. And

52:11

he just was not budgeting. He was

52:13

just like, yeah, we're doing it. He

52:16

would not give me any say of where

52:18

they're going. So I really had

52:20

to legit just do this, the

52:23

good old-fashioned audition way.

52:26

And so my team was really

52:28

on the pulse of what was

52:30

going on. So my first thing

52:33

was in March, I

52:35

think 2021, I had my

52:37

first meeting with Blitz. And

52:39

we talked for the director. And

52:42

we talked for about an hour and some change

52:44

about the character and who she was. And

52:46

I have to say, Scott, it was

52:50

at first, I couldn't believe

52:52

I was going through the process like this,

52:55

but I knew somewhere in my spirit,

52:57

like, I am not going to let this

53:00

miss me because of my ego. I

53:02

cannot get in the way of my own

53:04

blessing. So I met

53:06

with Blitz. We talked, we vibed.

53:09

And then a few months later, they asked

53:11

me to put myself on tape to sing,

53:13

Hell No. That's what I'm

53:15

like. Now, y'all know I want

53:17

a Grammy with y'all. Like, I have a Grammy

53:20

in my home from the best

53:22

cast album for musical. And

53:25

y'all want me to sing? Hell No. Okay.

53:28

Five. I'm going to do it. And I

53:30

did it. Two more weeks go

53:32

by. I hear nothing. And a part

53:34

of me is like, oh my gosh,

53:37

what is happening? I ended up spending

53:39

some time with James Gunn doing peacemakers.

53:42

And so I remember telling

53:44

him while we're shooting, we had

53:46

a second. And I said, James,

53:49

I'm sorry to bring this to you, but

53:51

he saw something was on my heart and was on my

53:53

mind. I said, but I am in

53:55

the process of auditioning for this movie. I

53:58

want it so bad. And I... I'm

54:00

losing my face that it's not gonna

54:02

happen. I said, do you think it

54:04

would be okay to write the director? And

54:07

he was like, yes. First

54:09

of all, let's have a whole conversation about faith,

54:12

which I was like, this is so cool. James

54:14

Gunn is a real one. And

54:16

we talked it out and he said, go

54:18

write Blitz. Wrote Blitz a letter, then happened.

54:23

What was that? Nothing happened.

54:25

Oh, oh, oh. Didn't,

54:28

no confirmation. Oh man.

54:30

We let her, he got it, but didn't

54:32

hear nothing. Yeah. And then

54:35

a few weeks later, they

54:37

asked me to do a chemistry read with

54:40

Harpo, which happens to be Corey Hawkins, which

54:42

happens to be my best friend for 17

54:44

years. And

54:46

I'm like, what is going on? Now,

54:49

Corey had not been in the Broadway

54:51

version. No, he's not been in any

54:53

version. Right, right, right. He

54:55

didn't spend a year on Broadway like I did. None of these

54:57

people write, none of them did. But

55:01

I did the chemistry read with him.

55:04

It was phenomenal. And

55:07

then that's when you see

55:09

the video. So with the

55:12

video, because just I'm trying to remember. So

55:14

you were thinking

55:16

you were doing an interview or something, what was

55:18

it? Oh yes. So like, how did, tell it,

55:20

take me through that. Yeah, so this

55:23

process had been going on since

55:25

March for six months. So

55:28

we're now in September and I'm

55:30

like, what is going on? They want me to

55:32

meet with the director once again. I mean, how

55:34

many times do we need to talk? At

55:38

this point, I am starting to get exhausted

55:40

in the process, but I'm like, I'm gonna keep

55:42

trucking. So they put me on the Zoom

55:44

and I see the assistant. He's like, we're just

55:46

gonna get blitz on the line. Just give

55:48

us one second. So I'm like, okay.

55:50

But then he started small talking me. And

55:52

he's like, so how's the audition process

55:54

been? And I'm thinking to myself, you

55:58

know how you got that button and you can. Mute

56:00

and put it on black. I

56:02

was about to do that and say just call me when

56:04

he's ready But instead

56:07

I said no I'm gonna move with grace

56:09

and I talked to him and I told

56:11

him you know, it's been a process

56:13

and all of a sudden I

56:17

time I had and there's Oprah

56:19

Winfrey and her name at the

56:21

bottom Blitz

56:24

I think yes and it's her face in

56:27

purple And now you see

56:29

my heart drops I had nothing else

56:31

to do but put my hand to my chest

56:33

to stop my heart from beating so fast And

56:36

she's like I think she says Danielle

56:39

or something like that and I'm like Didn't

56:43

breathe I couldn't believe it but I

56:45

knew when I saw her face I had

56:47

gotten the job and I knew at

56:49

that moment My

56:51

life was about to change My

56:54

life was about to change and

56:57

it has And

56:59

I'm like I still like

57:01

when I tell you Scott like First

57:04

of all God don't make no mistakes as we

57:06

have seen in my journey of life It's

57:08

been so many full circle moments and at this

57:10

point I was thinking about it on the plane

57:12

I don't even think it's full circle I think

57:14

it's this an infinity sign where it just keeps

57:16

looping back around looping back around and

57:18

you have to trust the Universe is

57:20

gonna take you where you're supposed to

57:22

go. But in the meantime get

57:26

ready Get ready

57:28

like plant the seeds and I

57:30

feel like Cuz God

57:32

knows me so well. He's like I need

57:34

to plant the seeds for you. So I'm gonna map out

57:36

your life I'm gonna have

57:39

you meet this young brother named Corey

57:41

Hawkins. You're gonna build this beautiful relationship

57:43

with him He's gonna help you with

57:45

your audition You're going to study this

57:47

role for a year of your life,

57:49

you know, you're gonna even before

57:52

that you're gonna feel like Sealy

57:54

I'm gonna have you feel like

57:56

Sealy where you feel unseen where

57:58

you feel unheard where you

58:00

need to, you know, you don't

58:03

have the things that you think you need

58:05

to survive, I'm gonna teach you that

58:07

you do with this story. I'm gonna

58:09

teach you through your life experiences that

58:12

you are enough. And

58:14

so it's all of the things that

58:17

I've been through have been the culmination

58:19

of me getting to this place. And

58:22

I had to even go through

58:24

the imposter syndrome to get to

58:26

a place of comfortability where I'm

58:28

sitting with Scott right now on

58:31

a podcast called Awards chatter. What?

58:35

Awards chatter? This

58:37

is amazing. I'm like,

58:40

this is incredible. You

58:43

know, because we can live in, you

58:45

know, we can't live in actually. Tomorrow

58:48

we don't have yesterday, we

58:50

got now. And

58:52

right now life is good. Life

58:55

is life in the best way

58:58

possible to, like I said, be

59:00

sitting here talking with you on awards

59:03

chatter, having put in

59:05

a lot of time and effort. And we

59:08

talked Scott, and we've shared a

59:10

lot of the beautiful things, you

59:12

know, all of the beautiful things that have happened,

59:14

but there have been so many no's. There've

59:17

been so many minutes, moments in my life

59:19

where I've had to wait and

59:21

be patient. I did

59:24

Emmy's Orange is the New Black,

59:26

and I'm not crying because it's not

59:28

pity party, it's a happy

59:30

cry. But Orange is

59:32

like seven seasons on that

59:34

show, not one Emmy nomination.

59:37

That was very hard to understand. You know,

59:39

that's okay. Cause I understand now.

59:42

That wasn't for me. Doing

59:44

Tony's piano lesson

59:46

didn't happen. Okay.

59:50

I'm going to patiently wait because when I

59:52

tell you we've seen it, we talked about

59:54

it, the full circle moments that happened in

59:56

my life, the infinity signs that happened, they

59:58

happened for a reason. And so

1:00:01

I will humbly

1:00:03

stand still and wait

1:00:06

because when I tell you when God

1:00:08

writes the story is always so much

1:00:10

better than I could have ever imagined

1:00:12

for my life. Because even

1:00:15

with auditioning for

1:00:17

Broadway shows, there

1:00:19

were so many Broadway shows I auditioned

1:00:21

for before getting Color Purple and

1:00:24

so many tears lost in

1:00:26

me wondering why until you

1:00:28

get it. And if you'd gotten one of those, maybe you

1:00:30

wouldn't have been able to do the Color Purple. No,

1:00:33

this wouldn't even be the story. We wouldn't even be talking about

1:00:35

this. Well and also, you know,

1:00:38

the thing is for the movie

1:00:40

to happen when it did, your life today is

1:00:42

very different than it was when you were doing

1:00:44

the show on Broadway. I

1:00:46

would imagine you probably understand this character a lot

1:00:48

better than you could have whatever

1:00:51

it was eight,

1:00:53

nine years ago. Yeah, almost ten years ago. So

1:00:56

like, you know, there is

1:00:58

a some

1:01:02

logic or whatever to it happening now. I

1:01:04

mean, you like you said, you're now a

1:01:08

wife, a mother, things

1:01:11

that probably help you to understand her in

1:01:13

a different way. A

1:01:15

wholeheartedly like I understand commitment

1:01:17

so much stronger and when

1:01:19

the relationship between Harpo and

1:01:21

Sophia because I've committed my

1:01:24

life to somebody and I know what it is

1:01:26

to want to continue

1:01:29

that relationship and not have these

1:01:31

generational curses happen where, you

1:01:33

know, keep trying to keep black

1:01:35

love alive. I get it now.

1:01:38

I get what it is to have a

1:01:40

child, a black child in this world and

1:01:42

try to navigate and be the best

1:01:45

mother you can be. And as

1:01:47

we talked about having to say, hell no.

1:01:49

And what my fight looks like is much

1:01:51

different than what my fight was in 2015.

1:01:59

And. doing the,

1:02:01

you know, in some

1:02:04

ways the same motions or whatever, the same

1:02:06

scenes that you did

1:02:08

on stage, but now I guess

1:02:11

out in largely Savannah, Georgia

1:02:13

or, you know, out in

1:02:15

kind of talk about opening

1:02:17

up a show to the real world. Now, you

1:02:19

know, did you, did you find

1:02:22

that just actually,

1:02:24

you know, doing a

1:02:26

musical on the scale of a

1:02:28

movie, how was it different from the

1:02:31

way you'd done it years ago? So

1:02:33

much different because what people

1:02:36

don't realize is when you do a theater

1:02:38

gig, Broadway, once

1:02:41

you do previews and you open that

1:02:43

show, that show is locked. Period. You

1:02:46

don't really see the director that much anymore? You don't see

1:02:48

the director at all anymore, really. And

1:02:50

the stage manager becomes the director and in

1:02:53

the, his main, his or her main job is

1:02:55

to keep that show the same. So

1:02:58

any ideas you get, any new sparks

1:03:00

from a line

1:03:02

you've heard differently, anything, you cannot

1:03:04

change it. And

1:03:06

so that really was

1:03:09

stifling for me in a lot of ways, but

1:03:12

also it helped because doing

1:03:14

a show eight shows a week, mind

1:03:16

you, there's only seven days in a

1:03:18

week. Anyway, they make you

1:03:20

work. We work. We

1:03:23

work. Been doing eight shows a week. You

1:03:25

really get to be

1:03:28

so specific and you get to really

1:03:30

mold the character and the audience helps

1:03:32

you with that because they tell you

1:03:35

right away what ain't working and what

1:03:37

is working. So that was really cool.

1:03:39

But then coming into the film

1:03:42

and now I have all

1:03:44

of the elements, I get to use all my

1:03:46

five senses and I get, I

1:03:48

have new actors. So they have

1:03:50

a different take on things. And

1:03:53

now I'm in Sophia and Harpo's home

1:03:55

and I get to see

1:03:57

what the quilts look like. And I

1:03:59

feel. You know the pan in

1:04:01

my hand I get to grab a pan when

1:04:04

I'm singing hell No, it's

1:04:06

just a whole different jail cell

1:04:08

man actual just I actually have

1:04:10

a white mob around me versus

1:04:12

Everyone watching me use my

1:04:14

imagination. I get to

1:04:16

explore those things and the type of

1:04:19

actor I am I Am

1:04:22

a detailed actor like, you know, I

1:04:24

like to really get into the words

1:04:27

Like people I've been talking a lot of

1:04:29

lately about when I the way I say

1:04:31

respect You know, I'm

1:04:33

gonna find every syllable You know I'm

1:04:36

gonna play with every thing that I

1:04:38

get and so that's been so

1:04:40

much fun and I have to give a lot of credit

1:04:42

to blitz to our director for giving

1:04:44

us the freedom to really

1:04:47

Bring our all of our artistic self to

1:04:50

the role and not stifle that do you

1:04:52

remember? I mean, I'm sure you remember but

1:04:54

where was it that you first saw

1:04:56

the film? Oh To

1:05:00

be honest, I really don't

1:05:02

remember that well it's been a

1:05:04

while because in our culture black

1:05:06

folk is Everywhere. Oh,

1:05:08

I don't even mean the 85 one. Oh Okay,

1:05:11

you're But

1:05:19

but this one like so you you finish

1:05:21

your work you go home somebody spends months,

1:05:24

you know What's in his editor or whatever?

1:05:26

Where did when did he show it to

1:05:28

you guys or to you specifically first miss

1:05:30

Oh per kept saying you need to see

1:05:33

it And I was like, no, I'm waiting

1:05:35

until Christmas like everybody else. She's like why

1:05:37

I was like, cuz I'm not ready yet

1:05:40

Because I really think I had

1:05:42

heard a lot of buzz about my

1:05:45

performance already from editors or

1:05:47

from just people involved who

1:05:49

had seen it and I was starting

1:05:52

to Be like, I don't

1:05:54

know if I'm ready for all of this, you know,

1:05:56

and so we ended up going to the Academy

1:05:59

and Watching it a private

1:06:01

screening of it with myself and

1:06:03

Tasia Taraji her a small

1:06:06

group of people And I

1:06:08

remember sitting actually away from the

1:06:10

girls because I knew

1:06:12

I was gonna be an emotional wreck And

1:06:15

I wanted to kind of like go through

1:06:17

all of the feelings and emotions kind of

1:06:19

by myself And

1:06:22

experience it without like this influence of

1:06:25

feeling everyone else so

1:06:27

I Wept a

1:06:29

lot Scott to see

1:06:31

my name up there first Then

1:06:34

I saw my face and I heard my voice and

1:06:36

I was like, that's me like

1:06:38

this little girl inside of me that's like

1:06:42

10 years old and you know

1:06:44

doing going to arts Educational

1:06:48

programs running around acting like

1:06:50

frogs I

1:06:52

could not believe that was my

1:06:54

face my voice my name on

1:06:57

that screen and

1:06:59

doing a damn good job Well,

1:07:10

and I mean I guess well, sorry, let me let

1:07:12

you finish so that one. Oh, yeah, well Probably

1:07:17

not that long after you saw it,

1:07:19

you know other people got to see

1:07:21

it and I Have

1:07:23

found it really Cool

1:07:26

to watch and I'm sure it's even cooler to

1:07:28

experience where at the end of these

1:07:30

many screenings from the premiere forward

1:07:32

when they You know do

1:07:34

a Q&A or whatever afterwards and they they do

1:07:36

the roll call and you guys come out. I

1:07:39

mean It's something to

1:07:41

see people go Very

1:07:44

well for a lot of these folks, but

1:07:46

you they you have the most enthusiastic Respons

1:07:50

each time I mean people that that is

1:07:52

quite a and this is a talented group

1:07:54

of people and But they

1:07:56

there's something about the character and you

1:07:58

and the way you you play

1:08:01

her and, you know, maybe connecting

1:08:03

it back also to that you're

1:08:05

stepping into Oprah's shoes before it

1:08:07

was a musical. Now Oprah's here

1:08:09

championing you and it's again all

1:08:11

this whole full circle thing, but

1:08:13

it's just, you know, as a

1:08:15

final thing, just here we are.

1:08:19

Second day of 2024 when we're speaking, a

1:08:22

lot of exciting things have already happened. We're

1:08:25

going to be going on,

1:08:28

what is it, Sunday to the Golden

1:08:30

Globes as a nominee, the

1:08:32

following Sunday to the Critics Choice

1:08:34

Awards as a nominee. In

1:08:37

a fair world, there will be many

1:08:39

more things after that, but just take,

1:08:42

you know, as a time capsule, January

1:08:44

2nd, 2024, what's your kind of outlook at

1:08:48

the moment? How

1:08:52

are you feeling? And maybe

1:08:55

we'll listen back to this in a few years,

1:08:57

but what's this moment like for you? I love

1:08:59

it. Tom caps the moment January 2nd, 2024. I'm

1:09:04

sitting here with Scott who

1:09:07

his face is so vibrant and who I

1:09:09

feel like so much love

1:09:17

and joy and passion in

1:09:20

what you do. I'm sitting

1:09:22

across from you with some

1:09:24

water and outside the

1:09:27

London and I'm sitting

1:09:29

with this hoodie

1:09:31

that I got from 2015 when

1:09:34

I was in the color purple coming

1:09:36

off a plane, leaving my daughter and

1:09:38

my husband for

1:09:41

four months because

1:09:44

I get the opportunity to live my

1:09:46

dream. And

1:09:48

I get to go and hopefully,

1:09:51

not even hopefully, I already

1:09:53

have received so many flowers and so much

1:09:56

love. And then

1:09:58

I get to go do an incredible movie. We call

1:10:01

Minecraft and be silly with

1:10:03

Jason Momoa and Jack Black.

1:10:07

I'm living my dream. And

1:10:11

yes, I pray to have

1:10:15

that big gun in my

1:10:17

hand, the

1:10:19

big, big boy. But

1:10:21

even if I don't, I

1:10:23

have so much to be grateful for. And

1:10:26

I name all of those things because it's

1:10:28

so important. I'm learning to live

1:10:31

in the moment, to live in

1:10:33

what you have now. Tomorrow

1:10:36

is not promised at all.

1:10:39

And so what I have now

1:10:42

is my health,

1:10:44

my family, a great

1:10:46

job, jobs that

1:10:48

I enjoy. I have a wonderful team

1:10:50

that has been supporting me and lifting

1:10:52

me up during this time. And

1:10:56

I have had this great conversation with

1:10:58

you. And I thank you

1:11:00

for that. I thank you for letting me get

1:11:02

to express and get

1:11:04

to show more of myself and

1:11:06

let the world know who I am. Thank

1:11:09

you for that. It's my pleasure. You're the

1:11:12

best. It's been so fun to watch you

1:11:15

along the way. And I know we're just

1:11:17

getting started. So just get it started. Keep

1:11:20

it coming. It's been fun. It's been fun.

1:11:22

You're the best. Thank you. Thank you. Girl,

1:11:25

child, landscape and

1:11:27

the family. You mean,

1:11:30

sick and tight, huh, woman? You

1:11:33

live like a snake. You

1:11:36

better learn how to fight. Why

1:11:38

are you still alive? You

1:11:41

showed him, girl. You're

1:11:44

the sweet dog that flies. You've

1:11:46

been a man. Just

1:11:48

don't give a damn how

1:11:51

you know. Thanks

1:12:04

for listening to Awards Chatter. We really appreciate

1:12:06

it and would really appreciate you taking just

1:12:08

a minute more to subscribe to the podcast

1:12:10

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1:12:14

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1:12:17

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1:12:19

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1:12:21

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1:12:26

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1:12:30

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