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based on how you buy. Hello

0:36

to everybody who likes to get on the

0:38

soapbox and go on weird rants every few

0:40

episodes. It's Beautiful Anonymous. One

0:42

hour, one phone call, no

0:45

names, no holds bar. Hi

0:57

everybody, Chris Gethard here.

0:59

We've got an intro on this one that's

1:01

about six or seven minutes long. So

1:04

if you're somebody who doesn't like a long intro,

1:06

I get it. I'll ask you to maybe consider

1:08

Beautiful anonymous.com if you want to support the show

1:10

and check out some of the supplemental content that

1:12

we have. In the meantime though, if you skip

1:15

about six or seven minutes, you'll be right at

1:17

the tail end of that intro. You'll be right

1:19

at the phone call. Thanks everybody. Hi

1:23

everybody, Chris Gethard here. Of

1:28

Beauty for Anonymous. I feel so lucky to

1:30

be doing the show. I feel so lucky

1:32

for your support and I have to thank

1:34

all six hundred and fifty seven people who

1:37

have signed up A Beautiful anonymous.com. For.

1:39

Are bonus. Content. And.

1:41

I that it. again, just

1:43

to reiterate, the annual deals are

1:45

real deals. It's a good way

1:47

to support the show and

1:50

this caller is signed up at our touchtone tier

1:52

where once a month we

1:54

put out a secret phone number that's only for the people

1:56

on the touchtone tier. And the call you're about to hear

1:58

today is I think the third time. time, we've

2:00

actually enacted that. So thank you to

2:02

our caller for being a beautifulanonymous.com member.

2:05

And for anybody who's thinking about supporting the show,

2:07

it also increases your odds of getting on the

2:09

show, which is a nice little way

2:12

to keep participating in the game that is the very

2:14

premise of this show while being a part of it,

2:17

blah, blah, blah, beautifulanonymous.com. There's

2:20

the plug. Only other plug I have is

2:22

we do have one live taping on the

2:25

books for this year. It's March 23rd in

2:27

Boise. It's part of

2:29

the Tree Fort Music Festival. Andrea

2:31

and I have had our flight book. We

2:34

are ready to go. Myself and the High

2:36

Priestess herself will be in Boise on March

2:38

23rd doing a live taping of beautifulanonymous. So

2:40

if you're going to be out in Boise

2:42

or you're planning on going to the Tree

2:44

Fort Music Fest, stop on by, come

2:46

hang out at a live taping of beautifulanonymous. Now

2:49

I am not doing anything on the comedy stage and

2:51

I'm trying not to be insecure about that. But

2:53

that being said, I'll be there for a

2:55

live taping and I can't wait. I'll also

2:58

be doing a bunch of shows at South

3:00

by Southwest, including a presentation

3:02

on Laughing Together, which is the nonprofit I'm

3:04

helping to build. And that's going

3:06

to be on March 12th. So South by Southwest

3:08

people, please do come say hi, whether it's at

3:10

that presentation or at a comedy show. But I'd

3:12

love to get some people in the room for

3:15

the presentation because I've always heard with presentations at

3:17

South by Southwest that it's a real

3:20

crapshoot if anybody comes or not, because there's so

3:22

many things going on. So if you're a South

3:24

by Southwest attendee this year, March 12th, I believe

3:26

it's at 2pm, Laughing Together, you can look it

3:28

up on the South by app. I'm very, very

3:30

excited to talk about this nonprofit and how it

3:32

came to be and the type of stuff we're

3:34

trying to do. Maybe I'll see you there

3:36

in Austin. Okay,

3:39

I don't want to talk too long this time.

3:42

This week's episode, I

3:44

really like it. A lot of it goes

3:46

back to the very roots of this show. We all

3:48

remember episode one of the show. There's many, many of

3:51

you who tell me you

3:53

have listened since a Ron Paul's baby.

3:55

And that very premise of that was

3:57

there was a guy, he needed a

3:59

career change. He needed something. more fulfilling.

4:01

Guess what? Seven years on

4:04

the minds of a lot of us and today's caller

4:07

is somebody who

4:09

has worked in a few different fields.

4:14

Most recently in a

4:16

field that can be pretty lucrative and has

4:20

decided to do something more fulfilling, something more for

4:22

the soul. And he's

4:24

not sure if it's going to be a long-term thing

4:26

or if it's just something

4:29

new to try in order to move on from the

4:31

old but we talk a lot about it. And

4:33

along the way, I go on

4:35

a bunch of sort of manic

4:37

rants about the state of society and

4:40

I already know I talked a little

4:42

too much in this episode. So

4:45

I hope that you enjoy that and just

4:47

understand that if you're going to tweet at me

4:49

to tell me, because you talked a

4:51

lot, point

4:53

taken, I'm telling you

4:56

now, I know I

4:58

was in a mood and a bunch of stuff that

5:00

the caller was saying was making

5:02

me feel agitated about where we are

5:04

at as a world. So

5:06

I yelled about it a lot. I

5:09

don't always do it. But this

5:11

time I did. Point being, I think one of the

5:13

things to take away from this episode is that the

5:15

caller seems to be in a place where

5:18

a lot of us are at, which is just frankly,

5:21

how do we start making some moves that

5:25

are having a

5:27

tangible effect on the world that's right in front of

5:30

us? Not the

5:32

world that we get upset

5:34

about in media or

5:37

online, where there

5:39

are so many reasons all the time to feel

5:41

overwhelmed and scared. How do you

5:43

start making moves in life to

5:46

have a tangible effect on

5:49

your own day to day? And

5:51

some of that involves making big life choices. You'll hear

5:53

that for the caller. That's not just taking on the

5:55

form of a job

5:57

change. That's also the

5:59

social. circles that one finds. We talk

6:01

a lot about

6:04

the community.

6:07

We have a comment over there that

6:11

I actually really loved it. It was a guy who

6:14

said he stopped listening years ago because

6:17

he didn't like something I said that

6:19

sounded like medical advice. I was able to

6:21

respond and say, I'm going to be

6:24

able to respond. I'm going to be able to respond

6:26

and say, I'm going to be able to respond. I'm going

6:28

to be able to respond. I'm going

6:30

to be able to respond.

6:33

I'm going to be able to respond and say, I don't

6:37

think of myself. I'm not in the

6:39

business of giving out medical advice, so whatever I

6:41

said that crossed that line for you, I am

6:43

sorry. Also, it sounds like you stopped listening years

6:45

ago. Why are you still posting in the Facebook

6:48

group? I tried to be not aggressive

6:50

and he said, I just wanted to let you know that

6:52

I missed the show. Again,

6:54

you are allowed to come back. If I

6:57

said one thing four years ago

6:59

that pissed you off or bummed you out, tell

7:01

your friends to come on back. Also, in terms

7:04

of keeping the show alive, one thing you can do

7:06

is tell friends. You can leave reviews

7:09

on places like Apple Podcasts. You

7:12

can give it the thumbs up in places like

7:14

the platform you listen to, whether that's a like

7:16

or a follow or subscribe or a heart or

7:18

a thumbs up or any of those things.

7:20

Thanks in advance if you might do those. Most

7:22

of all, what I hope is

7:24

that you feel some sense of connection in this call. I

7:27

have a feeling so many people are going to go,

7:29

I have my version of

7:32

this where I feel like I need

7:34

to at least supplement my daily routine

7:37

with something that's a little bit more for the soul, a little bit

7:39

more for the local community. I think there's

7:42

a lot of us out there feeling that

7:44

way and I think this caller might ring true to a lot of

7:46

you. Enjoy it everybody. Thank

7:53

you for calling Beautiful Anonymous. A beeping

7:55

noise will indicate when you are on the

7:57

show with the host. Hello.

8:01

Hi. Hello. How

8:03

are you? Hi. Good. How

8:05

are you? I'm pretty

8:08

good. This is, I think

8:11

I know why people, I think I know why people ask

8:13

is this Chris now. Oh yeah?

8:15

Walk me through it. What's the psychology to that? Because

8:18

you know I'm coming. You've been. Well,

8:21

I heard you a couple of times already and

8:23

I was like, nope, don't respond. It's a message.

8:25

Don't respond. Because it's like, it's

8:28

like, hi, you're about to, you might go on.

8:31

But then it beeps and you're like,

8:33

oh, this must, this might really be him or it might be

8:35

a message again. So you've,

8:37

you heard all my shit talk beforehand.

8:41

Yeah. Well,

8:44

you're sworn to secrecy. How are

8:51

you? I'm pretty good. Just to be

8:53

clear with people, I don't really talk too much shit

8:57

before these episodes. I'm

8:59

good. Not too much. Yeah. I'm

9:02

good. I'm, you know, perpetually pretty tired. Now

9:04

how are you? I'm pretty good. I

9:07

am walking around my house. I was making my

9:09

bed. Every time Andrea talked to

9:11

me, I kept, I kept, I was eating blueberries and I

9:13

had to try to talk while

9:15

eating blueberries. Blueberries? Are blueberries in season

9:17

right now? I

9:20

have no idea. They're

9:23

pretty good though. Good. I

9:25

know strawberries are right on the end of

9:27

their season. I'm born and raised like Floridian

9:29

basically and strawberry season's a big thing where

9:31

I'm from. So it's like sort

9:33

of nearing the end of that. I can tell you

9:36

that. I'll also tell you that I did a show

9:38

a few months back in Hamilton, New Jersey, which is

9:40

the blueberry capital of the world. And

9:43

I was like, well, where can I go and get

9:45

some blueberries? I will get some blueberry products to support

9:47

the blueberry capital of the world. And it was like,

9:49

oh no, they're out of season. And

9:51

I was like, oh, when's the season? And they're like, the

9:53

season's only like two weeks long. And I was like, well,

9:55

that's a very convenient, very convenient

9:58

thing to be the capital of the world. of

10:01

a thing that can only be fact-checked two

10:03

weeks of the year. That's

10:06

funny. Well,

10:09

they're pretty good most of the time regardless, so.

10:12

Yeah, true. Anyway. So

10:14

what would you like to talk about today? But

10:18

well, it's funny.

10:21

I wanted

10:24

to mention really quickly that I'm still riding high

10:26

from yesterday because I got to see one of

10:28

my improv idols in person. Now I'm

10:30

talking to another one. So it's a weird 24 hours.

10:34

Who's this other improv idol? I want to actively judge

10:36

them. I

10:40

got to see Zach and Jess,

10:42

the off-book improvised musical folk. They were in

10:44

my town last night. Lovely,

10:47

lovely people in my

10:49

experience. Yeah, too bad. You can't judge

10:51

them. No. I

10:53

only really know them through the podcast circuit

10:55

and have only encountered them briefly at times,

10:57

but they seem really nice. They seem like

10:59

nice people. Oh yeah, they're delightful. Long

11:02

story short, I've been lucky enough to

11:05

have interaction with them and they are

11:07

just as nice as they seem. But

11:11

my mom flew into town from Florida. We got

11:13

to go see them. We both been fans

11:15

of theirs for a long time. So it was

11:18

a great night. Now I'm excited to be talking to

11:20

you. And I think my mom

11:23

actually is a good transition.

11:25

My mom is a fourth

11:27

grade teacher, taught

11:30

for 20 years. And

11:34

I have been in journalism

11:36

and marketing since college the last decade

11:39

or so. And I'm

11:42

sure you've felt

11:45

or heard similar stories,

11:47

but since COVID, been thinking a

11:49

lot about changing. And

11:53

long story very short, and obviously I can

11:56

kind of let you ask questions, I

11:58

have decided to ship. shift from my

12:01

marketing world into teaching and

12:03

teaching elementary school. So that's been the

12:05

big thing happening in my life

12:07

right now, trying to prepare for that for that

12:10

change. And now you say

12:12

you're preparing for that change. Does this

12:14

mean you will soon be teaching or are you already

12:16

in the deep end and you are teaching and kind

12:18

of adapting on the fly? I

12:22

mean, I will be doing

12:24

it hopefully in the fall of 2024 for

12:26

anyone who, I

12:29

don't know when people listen to this. So

12:32

I'm deep in the process of preparing for it

12:35

because it's not like. The

12:37

most straightforward thing to switch

12:40

careers if you don't have a degree in something, but

12:42

at least in this case, so

12:45

I'm deep in the process, but not not

12:47

in the position. Now.

12:53

The obvious question. Is

12:56

a cynical one. And

12:59

I want to say. It may

13:01

hit me. First thing I want to put out there is

13:04

men so much love to the teachers

13:06

out there. Also, with my my new

13:08

gig where I'm doing a lot of professional development with

13:10

teachers, I've met a lot of teachers and I see

13:12

like. If

13:15

you're in a position to go help a teacher, they

13:17

appreciate the support, especially if you aren't

13:21

going to waste their time, which is already

13:23

so limited and you

13:25

need to be understanding that they're overworked,

13:27

they're underpaid, they're stressed out,

13:29

these American teachers are stressed out

13:32

and a lot of them quit and

13:34

a lot of administrators quit because. It

13:38

is hard right now. Schools are under a squeeze.

13:42

Point being. It's

13:45

an under it is a sort of. I

13:49

think in many ways, teachers are put on a

13:51

pedestal for what they do, but but the

13:54

actions speak louder words and sometimes the

13:56

actions make people feel very unappreciated, whereas.

13:59

Marketing is something where there's big money to be found

14:01

if you can find it. Why?

14:05

The cynical question is why are

14:07

you doing this? Why are you leaving

14:09

behind the world of marketing, which as

14:11

we all know, a lot of times you

14:13

can start your own firm eventually, set your own

14:16

hours, get in with the right brand building, and

14:18

there's money to be had, whereas

14:20

teaching, it's kind of known. You're

14:22

going to be underpaid, you're going to be overworked.

14:24

That's the starting point of how it's going to

14:26

go. If you can make it more positive, standing

14:29

on that foundation, good on you, but that

14:32

is the foundation. Yeah,

14:36

no, I mean, it's a great question. It's like

14:40

cool to talk to someone outside of

14:42

my own circle because I've

14:44

talked through a lot of these things, but I

14:46

was intrigued to hear not

14:48

only outside questions and

14:50

perspectives, but

14:54

your similar-esque journey, because

14:56

I've heard you talk about it a lot on the

14:58

show, but I

15:00

think people could

15:02

and probably have asked

15:05

you similar things. You

15:07

could keep working in comedy and traveling

15:09

around and doing all this, and why

15:11

do you want to step away from

15:14

that and go into something that's potentially

15:16

more thankless or harder? I know you're

15:18

kind of mirroring those things in an

15:20

interesting way, and obviously it's easy to,

15:22

like you mentioned at

15:24

the beginning, I think people are

15:26

definitely understanding about, well, it's

15:29

about family, right? And then that

15:31

can probably suffice,

15:33

but to your

15:37

original word of cynical,

15:41

I think that is the

15:44

fact that I have grown this

15:48

sort of like

15:51

ever-expanding feeling of

15:53

cynicism within my

15:56

current work, I think is the

15:59

biggest. part of why

16:01

it started. How I

16:03

got to where I wound up is kind of a whole other

16:05

thing, but like at

16:08

the outset, like

16:11

a lot of people, when

16:13

we shifted to a world where we

16:15

were sitting, working from

16:18

home, going from bed

16:20

to other room and back every day

16:23

for two years or

16:26

more, I just increasingly

16:28

was like, what am I

16:30

doing? And,

16:33

you know, my mind's going

16:35

in a bunch of directions. So you can keep

16:38

me on track, but like, long story

16:40

short, I know I keep saying that phrase, I'm realizing

16:42

that I'm talking. I

16:44

was like really into improv world, like right before

16:46

COVID, I had gotten really into it. I felt

16:49

like I had found a community

16:51

and people in a place where I felt like

16:55

I could pursue my creative interests and

16:59

artistic sort of elements of my

17:01

brain. And when COVID

17:03

happened, I felt like all of that

17:06

obviously went away really quickly. I

17:08

was not that interested in

17:10

trying to do zoom shows and things.

17:13

And I went from feeling

17:16

like work is a thing I

17:19

do during the day and I

17:21

do the stuff I like after work, to

17:24

feeling like I have

17:26

decades of these 40 to 40 plus hour weeks

17:31

left, do I want them to be

17:34

something that I feel like I can

17:36

bring my actual self to and like

17:39

do something with that I care about. And,

17:42

you know, like

17:45

I knew I was a hard worker, but

17:47

I felt like I was doing it towards things that were, that

17:50

I didn't like. So,

17:52

I mean, I could keep going, but

17:54

I'll pause. believe

18:02

that there's still a viable answer in

18:04

2024 which is yeah, this

18:07

is probably going to be harder and more

18:09

demanding than marketing and probably less lucrative in

18:12

terms of if you're a

18:14

betting person but it

18:17

promises to be more fulfilling and make

18:19

me feel better about my contributions to

18:21

my community and the world

18:23

around me and damn it

18:25

that might just still mean something once

18:27

in a while that

18:30

maybe what we all don't need maybe yes

18:32

I don't know what kind of branding you were in but

18:37

I wonder how many clients you had where

18:39

you find yourself progressively right you mentioned that

18:41

you started to feel disillusioned during the pandemic

18:44

as did we all right

18:46

how many conversations are you having when you're in the

18:48

world of marketing where you're going well

18:51

if you really want to get some grassroots movement going

18:53

we're going to have to talk to you about TikTok

18:55

and how to have a TikTok presence and

18:58

how many times can you say oh Chris how

19:00

many really it

19:02

wasn't even there where was it

19:04

where was it at what level

19:06

was it at these marketing conversations

19:08

so what I did what I haven't

19:10

said is I do marketing for B2B

19:12

tech companies there you

19:15

go I'm sure the world you

19:17

don't even know exists what is because why would you

19:20

um so

19:22

imagine you're starting a business

19:25

and you need to hire

19:27

people and pay them and have

19:29

them log their time and

19:31

uh track their

19:33

like travel and things

19:35

so then imagine you

19:38

need a company that

19:40

can give you what they call

19:42

enterprise software technology

19:46

uh that automates things

19:48

for you and takes the boring

19:50

manual tasks off your hands so you can

19:52

focus on what your business does that um

19:56

you know so the things like that the

19:59

companies like saps and Oracle. I don't know

20:01

if you know really much about them, but things

20:04

like that. Further

20:07

insight, like,

20:09

because you said grassroots, I was like,

20:11

I wish, I wish that it was

20:13

anything like that. And obviously, you have

20:16

a self selecting listenership to some extent

20:18

politically, I suppose, I know there's still

20:20

some variation, but I assume

20:23

most of the people

20:25

listening will think that it's

20:28

not enjoyable when you're on a

20:30

call with say, an oil and

20:32

gas company executives. And you're

20:35

working on a blog for them to talk about

20:38

how they're doing digital transformation in

20:40

their company. And

20:43

you say, okay, so do you want me

20:46

to work in a section about your

20:48

sustainability initiatives? I was reading on your site

20:50

about that. Like, you know, it's, you

20:53

know, it's good to see some of this stuff. Like,

20:55

can we can you maybe expand on this? And they

20:58

say, I don't include

21:00

that. Like, we say that stuff, we don't really do

21:02

it. Yeah,

21:05

this doesn't sound like the most fulfilling.

21:08

So you're effectively providing marketing for

21:11

software platforms for corporations to then

21:14

be more efficient while also trying to help

21:16

them with their forward facing image,

21:18

which is something that none of them really care

21:22

about beyond the most basic levels. That

21:26

is not what someone who is perhaps more satisfied

21:30

in the industry would say, but that is how

21:33

I read it. Very

21:35

often. I mean, the best case is, yeah,

21:37

it's just like a business and you want

21:39

to help them run better, right? But it

21:43

feels, I feel certainly disconnected from the

21:46

missions and the people and like you touched

21:48

on community and that's a big thing for

21:50

me. And like, I want to

21:53

feel like I

21:55

am working towards something that I feel

21:58

connected to, you know. Yeah,

22:01

I think that's an answer that we're forgetting is

22:03

valid, right? That sometimes you need to take a

22:05

step back in life and go, I'm doing this

22:07

thing that

22:10

is probably in some ways financially

22:12

more secure. But

22:15

I feel like I'm living

22:17

in a state between being

22:20

alive and dead. And

22:23

that's not okay. And maybe

22:25

I'll go enter a world that I know

22:27

is difficult, teaching in an elementary school, and

22:29

maybe it won't be difficult. Maybe you'll crush

22:31

it. But then where the cliche is, there's

22:33

a lot of uphill battles, but

22:36

I will feel like I'm doing something

22:38

that makes me feel fully alive. I

22:42

think we have forgotten more and more. And

22:44

let me, yeah, go for it. Let me be, yeah,

22:48

let me be clear too. Like I'm, I

22:50

am in a fortunate situation where

22:53

my fiance has a

22:55

job that she just

22:57

finished her doctorate and like,

22:59

is very smart and

23:01

is working for like a big, I guess

23:05

this is where I have to think about being

23:07

anonymous, a big, important government agency, and

23:11

is already effectively making

23:13

more than me, even though I've been at my

23:15

role for several years. So I am

23:18

in a position where I'm able to

23:20

try to do something like this rather

23:22

than the golden handcuffs sort

23:24

of aspect of it. I

23:28

think that's, that's a fortunate part

23:30

of it that I want to obviously acknowledge too. And

23:34

it's, and that's important. I also

23:36

think that's very classy and

23:38

something that we all forget of. Oh, so I

23:41

have this partner who has achieved badass

23:44

level in their field. And

23:47

that affords us a little bit of a safety net.

23:49

So therefore I can take some chances and I

23:52

can go do some stuff. That's more community driven.

23:55

And to

23:58

understand the luxury. of

24:00

that and the teamwork and the

24:02

camaraderie of that, that, that mutual safety net

24:04

provides another important thing to take

24:06

out before anybody out there feels guilty about,

24:09

about not being able to dive in.

24:11

It is good for you to go, well, I'm in

24:13

a position where I have a little bit of breathing

24:15

room to go try. I think that's cool

24:17

of you to note. And

24:21

it's a long process too. I've

24:23

been, I've, I worked

24:25

with a career coach for a while and

24:27

tried to talk

24:30

to as many friends and family members

24:32

and colleagues as I could about different

24:34

options, like I can spare you

24:36

all the details, but I was building like

24:38

charts for myself as like what my skills

24:40

are and personality traits and things I care

24:42

about and like triangulating like a, like a

24:45

weird career CSI thing of

24:47

trying to like figure out what

24:50

careers would even be good fits for me. And just

24:52

like slowly over the years working

24:54

towards this, it was probably like six months ago

24:56

that I was like, you know what? It's

24:58

time to try it. Cause

25:01

what's the worst that can happen? I

25:03

have these communication skills. If I desperately

25:06

need to get back

25:08

into some marketing thing, like I still am

25:10

a writer and communicator and can figure that

25:12

out, you know, now

25:16

I'll push past being cynical and talking

25:18

about this as a sacrifice and start

25:20

focusing on it as an exciting life

25:22

adjustment that might be super

25:24

gratifying. What are the things

25:27

you're most excited about in

25:29

terms of getting into a classroom? What are the things

25:31

that really get your gears going that you did all

25:33

this coaching and these Venn diagrams to look at skills

25:36

and this is the thing that you landed

25:38

on and went, I'm going to go for

25:40

it. So what got you excited about it? Well,

25:44

so let me, well,

25:47

I really want to hear your perspective

25:51

on this too, since you're doing a similar thing

25:53

and also have a background that

25:55

I think will align somewhat with my answer.

25:58

So I'm really curious, like. personal

26:00

experience on this, but as an answer, like

26:04

my fiancé and I, we recently

26:06

moved for her job like last

26:08

summer to a different state. And

26:11

before that we had been doing some volunteer

26:14

work at this church we

26:16

were attending that was like very

26:19

long story short, but like I grew

26:21

up religious and it was one of

26:23

the few churches in my adulthood that I felt like

26:25

actually sit with my older,

26:28

more progressive personality while

26:30

also being like

26:33

feeling like I was at a church.

26:35

I don't know that's a whole other

26:37

thing, but we had this

26:39

church we were doing nursery support with

26:41

helping the younger kids and

26:44

my fiancé and I met

26:46

doing improv and we

26:50

actually met in

26:53

a scene was the first time we ever

26:55

talked if you want to have like the

26:57

nerdiest possible improv collar that you've had. And

27:02

we started doing

27:04

work with these kids and I felt

27:06

like, and again this is where I don't know how

27:08

you can speak to this, but

27:11

I felt like kids in sort of

27:13

that elementary school age range, especially

27:16

as someone who was coming into these

27:19

situations after feeling really

27:21

cynical all day at work, had

27:24

this earnest

27:26

unbridled optimism

27:28

and energy because they're kids and

27:31

they're not cynical about the world yet and their

27:33

sense of like play and fun

27:36

is like so creative and

27:38

imaginative and it really reminded me of

27:40

what it feels like to do

27:43

improv at its best when you're having fun

27:46

and you're just sort of being

27:49

goofy and playing and like inventing

27:52

games and I felt

27:54

really connected to kids in that context

27:56

and as I mentioned my mom was

27:58

a teacher for 20 years. and is

28:00

retiring, so I went and sat in on

28:02

her class and I think I

28:04

just, I'm not really

28:06

like a, it

28:10

was a fine person, so I

28:13

wouldn't say that, but I definitely just felt

28:15

increasingly like, as

28:18

the more of the situations I put myself in, like, I

28:21

think I would just connect really well with

28:23

kids and I feel like I am in these

28:25

contexts and I compare the

28:27

skills that I have across

28:29

communication and performance and organization

28:33

and preparation and all these things and

28:36

hopefully be able to parlay it into

28:38

being a good, effective teacher and like

28:41

feeling like I have real connection and

28:43

impact with people rather than, you

28:46

know, the other day, I, the

28:49

other day I, straight white male, wrote a

28:51

blog for a woman

28:53

that's going to publish on International Women's Day

28:55

about what it's like to be a woman.

28:58

You wrote it, you ghost wrote a

29:02

female perspective blog post for International

29:05

Women's Day that some

29:07

ranking member of a company is going

29:09

to post as their own and you

29:12

wrote it? I mean,

29:15

yeah, and then like this is what we do, I

29:17

mean, we, we talked to them and it was all

29:19

of their thoughts and perspectives, like I didn't make it

29:21

all up, but like, but yeah, like

29:23

my fiancee was making fun of me the whole

29:25

day but she's like, what are you doing today?

29:27

I'm like, I'm just writing a blog

29:29

for International Women's Day for a woman and she's

29:32

like, ah, classic, you're just

29:35

doing your part. I

29:41

hate to say it because,

29:44

okay, I

29:46

need to go on attention here because first

29:48

of all, that's hilarious. So, you know, I'm glad to

29:50

hear that it's like they verbally lay out a bunch

29:52

of their thoughts and then you have the strategy on

29:54

how do you organize this in a way to make

29:56

these thoughts most palatable and effective and land on the

29:59

internet. and all that stuff, so

30:01

it's a little bit more organizing the thoughts and then

30:03

strategizing, and to put out the blah, blah, blah. But

30:06

talk about cynical. The

30:08

idea that people go, well, we need a

30:10

post for International Women's Day. All

30:14

right, we're gonna post it, we're gonna have one of our women

30:18

executives or high ranking people in

30:21

the corporate structure who happens to

30:23

be women post it. Let's

30:25

have a man write it to make sure

30:27

that it's delivered in the most high impact

30:30

fashion possible is a truly demoralizing

30:32

moment, and also reminds you that,

30:36

again, the cynical side of me, the

30:39

last thing I wanna come off

30:41

as is somebody who goes, oh,

30:43

this wokeness is just fake, blah,

30:45

blah, blah. But I'll

30:47

also put out there that when corporations

30:50

and companies have a calendar

30:52

of events and they wanna make sure that

30:54

they check each box by participating

30:56

in that event to a level

30:59

that therefore gets a thumbs up and puts

31:02

them on the right side of history, and

31:04

that's the sole level of involvement they have,

31:08

I am cynical enough to say that that's

31:10

not enough and it doesn't do dog shit.

31:14

Look at me, doesn't do

31:16

dog shit. Calling out the

31:18

corporation, punk rock style, and

31:21

then immediately pausing for

31:23

advertising. Hello,

31:25

everybody, we'll be right back. Hi,

31:32

everybody, specifically grownups. I

31:35

wanted to tell you about the Cat in the Hat

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33:01

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33:06

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33:27

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33:29

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33:31

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33:54

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33:58

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34:00

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34:02

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34:05

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34:21

think it's really cool I'm

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jealous if it existed when I was young it

34:25

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34:27

figure out therapy and how it works Sometimes

34:30

people wait until something really awful happens and that's when

34:32

they talk to a therapist And I just want to

34:34

say if you're in that headspace don't

34:37

do it I've had conversations with

34:39

friends in life where they go. I'm not

34:41

at rock bottom yet Why would I see

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Thanks to all the advertisers who allow this show to

35:53

exist now we are going to get back into the

35:55

phone call I Am

35:58

cynical enough to say that That's not enough

36:00

and it doesn't do dog shit. You know what

36:02

I mean? A corporation

36:04

and I don't... Oh, I mean that really... That's

36:08

what it is too. It's like I don't want to go off

36:11

on a whole thing either, but like there

36:13

is a lot of that in especially with

36:15

all these tech adjacent companies.

36:17

It's like they want

36:19

to look a certain way, but they don't want to commit

36:22

to anything. We really mean

36:24

it, which I guess kind of sums

36:28

up sort of democratic rule of our government

36:30

too, but whatever. Well, it is

36:32

and I just have to call it out. And again, I'm

36:34

going to go on a rant and I hate going on

36:37

rants, but it feels like one of those days, but I'm

36:39

like to have a

36:41

guy write your Women's Day post, whether

36:43

it's your thoughts or not to say,

36:45

let's have a guy... It's just fundamentally,

36:49

you're not doing this for the right reasons. And I

36:51

get why you might want to move on to teaching

36:54

in the same way that I go, when a

36:56

clothing store hangs up a pride

36:59

flag, are they doing that

37:01

because they want to make sure that

37:03

the queer community shops and spends money

37:05

in their stores? Or are

37:07

they doing that because they actually think it's wrong

37:10

that a trans kid can get bullied to death in

37:12

a bathroom at a school in 2024? Like

37:15

which one is it? Because the

37:17

second one fucking matters. And the first one

37:19

is about you maintaining a level

37:22

of niceness to continue to make money

37:25

on the backs of communities. So

37:28

which one is it? Like when

37:30

you hang up a Black

37:33

Lives Matter sign, is that because

37:36

you actually care or is that

37:38

because you've had people crunch numbers

37:40

and take a calculated risk on what is

37:43

best for your bottom line? It's hard not

37:45

to be cynical about performative

37:47

progressivism. And

37:50

you have seen that up close. And you have at

37:52

times been someone who has

37:54

almost been utilized as

37:56

a tool towards that, it sounds like. So

37:58

fuck yeah, dude. in the classroom,

38:01

go for broke, take those performing skills

38:03

and take that sense of play that

38:07

you are right. Like in

38:10

a lot of ways when

38:12

you do improv and especially I was

38:14

one of the best improv teachers

38:16

for many years and one

38:18

of the things you realize as a teacher in particular is

38:20

that when you're working with adults a

38:23

lot of the basics of improv is reminding

38:25

adults how to get into the same headspace

38:27

they had as kids when it comes to

38:30

their play habits. Those

38:32

play habits are a

38:34

really beautiful thing and a lot of how kids learn

38:37

is through play and when an environment

38:39

is healthy for kids their play will

38:42

often take on the guise

38:44

of them role-playing.

38:49

Just this morning my son was telling me that

38:51

my son and his best friend walked up to me

38:53

this morning at a play date where they told me

38:56

that my son was the king and his best friend

38:58

was the boss and I was their butler

39:01

and to have my kid tell me that he's the

39:03

king and his friend is the boss and that I'm

39:05

the butler is very cute and funny and

39:07

I'm going I don't want to be the butler and I'm

39:09

playing because I know that they like to say things to

39:11

get me mad and they laugh and they think it's funny

39:13

when I pretend to be mad. I

39:15

also know that on some level

39:18

they are playing with the idea of high status

39:20

and low status and who gets to be in

39:22

charge and what's it mean to be in charge

39:24

and why do you crave being in charge and

39:29

why do people view it as a desirable

39:31

thing to be in

39:33

charge and

39:36

they're only four and a half so I'm not going

39:38

to get into classism

39:41

and social structure and well guys what does it

39:43

really mean to say that someone's a butler and

39:46

that you're the king and that means you win.

39:48

They're too young for that and for me to

39:50

go that's a little we're not

39:52

going to shit on the idea of working people.

39:54

They're not there yet and that's not their intention

39:57

but point being I

40:00

don't think you're wrong that if you're somebody who

40:02

goes, I know how to organize, I know how

40:04

to be extremely organized because of marketing. I

40:07

think a lesson plan is something that's well within

40:09

my scope of abilities based on what I've done

40:11

with my best career. But also, I know

40:13

how to be in front of people and I know

40:16

how to run a room. That's valuable as a teacher.

40:18

I know how to foster a sense of play. That's

40:20

valuable as a teacher. I know

40:22

how to get people to connect with each

40:24

other in the moment. That's valuable as a

40:26

teacher. I know how to

40:30

get a strong group bond forming and

40:32

how to get people moving forward in

40:34

baby steps via the power of a

40:37

group versus individuals trying to

40:39

move in 10 different directions as much. That's a

40:41

part of improv as well. That's valuable in the

40:43

classroom and in the school environment. I get it.

40:45

I get why you might want to walk away

40:48

from something that goes, hey,

40:50

sir, write our Women's Day blog

40:52

post. Instead,

40:54

though, there's something pure about kids

40:57

and how their brains work. The

41:00

whole idea of my nonprofit is, can

41:05

we get kids using play in a more focused way

41:13

because it's a really beautiful thing when kids can

41:15

let loose in play and

41:17

can we use it towards some ends

41:19

that are valuable for their development? So

41:22

I get it, my man, is the point. No,

41:28

yeah, it's funny, too. Like I

41:30

have no idea how to. I

41:35

guess what I would say first is

41:38

I think as I've grown older, like last

41:40

year, I turned over into the 30s. I

41:43

heard you talk for years

41:45

about how you actually like each decade more

41:47

than the previous one. I was like, all

41:49

right, that's changing. 40 is not

41:51

as good as 30. 30s may have been my

41:53

peak. 30s may have been my peak, to

41:56

be fair. Um,

42:00

but I definitely

42:03

felt like, cause,

42:05

cause again, just to harken back

42:07

to the idea of like community

42:09

and connection and like what COVID did and

42:11

all these cynical jobs and everything, like I,

42:15

when I came out of college, worked on newspaper.

42:18

I thought, you know, I was going to basically

42:22

go up to like, be a

42:24

podcaster for great land or the ringer or whatever, if

42:26

you're familiar with those. So, yeah.

42:29

Um, and it

42:31

just like, I

42:34

immediately felt like, oh, the past you have

42:36

to go down to get

42:38

to the good job is

42:40

so grueling. And I wasn't

42:42

sure if I wanted to do that. And

42:44

then I kind of

42:46

kind of had a mental break for,

42:49

for a bit, um,

42:51

and left that job and then came to marketing cause

42:53

it was stable. Like I moved back in with

42:55

my parents. But, um, as I've

42:57

grown older and like started to try to

43:00

find the things that give

43:03

me life and that resonate

43:05

with me, I have felt

43:08

like the things that are

43:11

about community and connection to feel

43:14

more important every

43:16

day, like even like I've grown

43:18

to be more in awe of

43:21

people that I used to find annoying,

43:24

like, like when I would have friends

43:26

in college or after college, we're like constantly

43:29

trying to organize, like get togethers or like, we

43:31

should all do this thing again, or we should,

43:33

we should all do this or that. And like

43:35

feeling like, oh my God, this person never lets

43:37

up. And then the older I get, the

43:39

more I'm like, what an incredible

43:42

trait of people to like try

43:44

to keep community together. And

43:46

obviously there are times where you know,

43:48

things people need to go separate ways

43:50

or whatever, but, um, like

43:52

I now find myself so

43:54

drawn to those people. Like right after my

43:57

fiance and I moved to this

43:59

town. We met some

44:01

people through improv and found somebody who had

44:04

basically on a whim just started sort

44:07

of a shapeless monthly

44:09

gathering where they were just like for people

44:11

looking for community in our town and We

44:14

went and we had a great time. It's just like I

44:16

don't know. There's just it's like it's so impactful

44:19

to me those kinds of people And

44:23

I just want to yes, I

44:25

have two thoughts in response, which is one I

44:29

This is a minor thought that doesn't matter. I love

44:32

that you had the career goals of round for Grantland

44:34

or the ringer Grant land

44:38

For anybody doesn't know it was an incredible

44:40

site that that one was I believe owned

44:42

by ESPN and it was kind of a

44:44

site for Elevated

44:47

longer form writing on sports and

44:49

pop culture Bill

44:51

Simmons kind of captioning the ship on the sports

44:53

side Chuck Closterman initially on the pop culture side

44:56

And it's a really brilliant consistent site And

44:58

when it shut down everybody was like ah

45:00

and then they kind of restarted it with

45:03

a very similar group of writers

45:05

and editors known as the

45:07

ringer and I have often been baffled at

45:10

how consistent Grantland was and

45:13

I'm not trying to talk smack because I also

45:15

know the ringer is a Union house and I

45:17

support my Union My

45:20

Union siblings, but I'm also like

45:22

man Grant and I read

45:24

pretty much everything in a ringer How

45:27

is it the same people and yet the tone is

45:29

so weirdly different in a way. I can't put my

45:31

finger on The ringer

45:33

has a weird habit of being like here's

45:36

eight things. You didn't notice that were fucked

45:38

up in the season

45:40

two yellow jackets and

45:42

then it'll be like here's fucking nine

45:44

meme a ball goofball moments from the

45:46

NBA last week and Then they try

45:48

to have an article that's like let's

45:51

have a frank and honest discussion about Joe Biden

45:53

And you're like you can't do both you can't

45:55

do like eight fucked up things about yellow jackets

45:58

And then try to get serious on politics I

46:00

don't know why, but the ringer that... I

46:04

don't know why I'm even... Who cares? I'm

46:06

gonna move on. Second thing I will say is this. I

46:09

think there's a little bit of an

46:11

unspoken thing happening in America right now

46:13

that you're pointing out, which is that

46:15

there's a lot of

46:18

online chatter about this

46:20

weird tribal side of stuff. And

46:24

there's people who fall down to rabbit holes

46:26

where they get radicalized in one direction or

46:28

the other politically, and we start

46:31

to see a lot of the most rich

46:33

people in the world doing

46:35

these very self-serving... Flying

46:41

into space, shark

46:46

tank where entrepreneurs try

46:48

to beg billionaires for money

46:50

and chances, and then you

46:52

start to see it go down to these very produced

46:55

TikTok videos and Instagram reels

46:57

of people showing

47:00

off ostentatious wealth and here's how I

47:02

live on... I

47:05

go on vacations in Dubai and let

47:07

me show off the penthouse suite and

47:09

all this very... But I'm starting

47:11

to feel like when

47:14

you talk about, oh, I fell into a group

47:16

of people that were really asking themselves, like, how

47:18

do we just get together and connect on

47:21

a human level and think about ourselves on

47:23

a community level? I'm also

47:26

starting to suspect that

47:28

there is a

47:30

less flashy, less

47:32

definable, less internet-focused,

47:35

frankly less sexy thing

47:38

happening now that probably is not being talked

47:40

about or written about enough but will be

47:42

soon. And

47:45

people will think back to this episode and realize it

47:47

of exactly what you're saying, of people

47:50

getting together on a, like, hey, we

47:53

live close to each other, let's just

47:55

hang out and figure out how to

47:57

make our immediate existence a little bit...

48:00

less pressurized and a little

48:02

bit more productive and peaceful. And support

48:04

each other. Yeah, I have a feeling

48:06

that's starting to happen, but it's a

48:08

thing that the same people doing

48:10

it are the same

48:12

people who are sick of everything

48:14

being posted publicly for

48:17

public consumption or shouted

48:19

about and fought about. I think there

48:21

is a quiet undercurrent for people right now going, I

48:23

want to go volunteer at a soup kitchen or I

48:26

want to go find the other people

48:29

in my town who care about the arts and

48:31

see how we can start providing

48:34

opportunities for each other's art to

48:36

thrive. Or I want

48:38

to figure out who the other people are

48:40

with young kids and how we can all

48:42

team up. Those things have always

48:44

happened, but I have a feeling those are happening in

48:46

a more intentional way right now that

48:49

nobody has totally realized yet.

48:53

Well, and like, sorry, how much time do we have? This

48:57

pause right there. Classic

48:59

question. How much time do we have? Because there's so

49:01

much to say. Let's

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53:34

Let's finish off the phone call. Sorry,

53:39

how much time do we have? Great

53:41

question because I'm a little manic. We've got 21

53:43

minutes left. This episode is defined

53:45

by you tell me pieces of your

53:47

life story and then I go on

53:49

insane rants about society and I do

53:51

apologize to you for that. I

53:55

mean it's fitting because I feel like

53:57

my job has led me to a world where I

53:59

am. going on rants about society. But

54:02

like, if you'll permit me another one that

54:04

I don't know if it's a rant or

54:07

whatever the positive version of a rant is, but

54:10

like, I think there's

54:12

even like, not the song

54:14

like an annoying type executive that I write

54:16

for, but like, I

54:18

feel like there is something to remote work

54:20

that is like a little bit corrosive to

54:23

like our ability to connect with each

54:25

other. And like, I fully

54:28

support people who want to remote work,

54:30

do remote work because it definitely is

54:32

convenient and flexible and like, I will

54:34

certainly miss the level

54:36

of flexibility that there is to it. But

54:39

on a deeper level, there really

54:41

is this thing of

54:43

like, the longer you do it, the more you start to feel

54:46

like you're not a person. You

54:48

don't know what it's like to like, be

54:50

around people or do anything with people. And

54:53

it becomes so easy to like, just

54:56

get at home for the whole day every day.

54:58

And like, when my fiance and

55:01

I moved, we were very like,

55:04

you know, we need to put

55:06

ourselves out there as much as we can because

55:08

like, it's hard moving and like we want to

55:10

find community. And like, I

55:13

also feel as someone who just went through my 20s,

55:17

and maybe this isn't true for everyone obviously, but there

55:20

is such a, I don't know

55:22

if you've talked about this on your show before, there's

55:24

such an absence of guidance

55:27

for people after you finished college

55:29

in America. It's like, there's a

55:32

super clear path for your

55:34

whole life. It's like, every

55:36

single thing is mapped out to the point where you're supposed to

55:38

be figuring out what you want to do the rest of your

55:40

life in like middle school. And by

55:43

the time you get to the end of college, and

55:46

I only say this in a

55:48

universal way, because I felt it and heard it

55:50

from so many other people, that

55:52

like you all

55:55

of a sudden get pushed off the cliff, like Wiley Coyote

55:57

and you're just running in place. And then you look down

55:59

and you're like, where did the

56:01

track go and what do I do now? And

56:04

I really felt like my

56:06

20s were hard for that reason because

56:09

I all of a sudden had no idea what

56:11

I was supposed to be doing. And really like

56:13

I had been told what I was

56:15

supposed to want to do, but

56:17

I never found

56:20

it for myself until

56:22

I stumbled into the improv

56:25

theater in my town, which is a different story.

56:27

But I felt that

56:29

part of me on lock and found my community and my

56:31

people and what I wanted to do. And it was like,

56:35

it made it a lot easier because that

56:37

period after you

56:39

finish is so weird. Absolutely.

56:42

And part of it is

56:45

that you are of an age

56:47

where all the generations ahead of you. And I was

56:49

at the tail end of this, there

56:52

were certain benchmarks of the things

56:54

you head towards, right? And it's

56:56

been made impossible for your generation

56:58

economically and financially. For

57:00

example, home ownership. All right, you

57:03

get out of college, you

57:06

work a few years, eventually you're gonna get married in your

57:08

mid to late 20s. And

57:10

then eventually around late 20s, early 30s, you

57:13

try to start owning a home. That was for

57:16

a bunch of prior generations, that was sort of

57:18

the game plan and people could deviate from it,

57:20

but that was the basic one. Well,

57:22

guess what? You can't talk to anybody of a certain age

57:25

and they'll go, I can't own a

57:27

home. I live

57:29

with roommates, deep into my 30s

57:31

because it's not cheap anymore. And

57:33

because Airbnb has dominated real estate

57:35

in a way that has artificially

57:38

made the price of everything rise.

57:41

And so I don't get to do that. And

57:43

then the idea that, okay, and then you own your home and

57:45

eventually you have kids. I can't afford to

57:48

have kids. I'm

57:50

not guaranteed health insurance for myself, let alone a

57:52

kid. Kid in

57:54

a world where my health insurance status is

57:57

uncertain, no, I'm not bringing a kid into

57:59

that. What if my kid is... sick and

58:01

my kid has to live in agony because

58:03

health insurance is not guaranteed for the

58:05

workforce anymore. So all these

58:07

things that have been twisted economically have made

58:09

the old benchmarks not apply to people of

58:12

your age because you guys are all honestly

58:15

frankly too smart and you smell that

58:17

rat. So there's all

58:19

these think pieces out there. Why aren't millennials

58:22

having as much sex as people? Well because

58:24

they don't want to have kids because

58:26

it's scary financially to bring kids into a

58:28

world where it's why aren't

58:31

millennials owning homes? Because it's fucking

58:33

impossible now because they

58:35

don't get paid as much because inflation

58:37

has outpaced wage growth and

58:39

they can't afford it and

58:41

we're not telling them what else to do and then

58:44

we silently judge millennials and Gen Z for

58:46

not playing by the game plan that

58:49

the boomers and Gen X got to play by and we've

58:52

judged them. Why aren't they doing these things? Well

58:54

because all the money is now kept at the

58:56

top of the pyramid and they don't have access

58:58

to any of it so they can't afford shit

59:01

and we're not giving them anything else to do

59:03

and they're becoming a

59:05

restless, tired

59:10

generation of people who

59:12

want to find something fulfilling that doesn't fit the

59:14

old game plan and you're right there at the

59:16

forefront of it with your new teaching job and

59:19

your new community driven pursuits. Congratulations

59:21

to you although apologies that

59:23

the old heads have squeezed

59:25

you out. Although

59:29

again full disclosure

59:31

and also contradiction because

59:34

everyone's different. Like because

59:37

I left my

59:39

newspaper job, worked in

59:41

marketing, moved home, I was

59:44

like making good money in marketing

59:46

for like five years and

59:48

living at home and was

59:51

lucky to grow up in a state where

59:53

college was basically paid for because I got

59:55

good grades. So

59:57

I actually saved up enough money to buy myself

1:00:00

a new job. condo in my hometown. And

1:00:02

I mean, it both

1:00:04

fits and doesn't fit what you're talking

1:00:06

about, because I was like,

1:00:10

feeling a little bit like

1:00:12

family members were like, well, this is what you do

1:00:14

now. And I was like, okay, I guess I'll do it because

1:00:16

like, I have been saving money. So

1:00:19

there was a little bit of like,

1:00:21

that influence, but also like, I was

1:00:23

lucky to be able to do that

1:00:25

simultaneously. So it's like, it's

1:00:27

weird. It's weird. But and again, think

1:00:29

about that, like, while

1:00:32

yes, you are an outlier for people of your generation

1:00:34

with that, it's also like, you have to have really

1:00:36

good grades so that you don't go into student debt.

1:00:39

And then you have to have a family life that's

1:00:41

stable and then opt to live at home for half

1:00:43

a decade to be able to go forward things that

1:00:45

it used to be more standard that you can get

1:00:47

out in the workforce and get to those things at

1:00:49

point. I think I think those things can come to

1:00:51

you. Point being, yeah, I'm glad

1:00:54

to hear about your life transitions. And I think you're going to

1:00:56

do a lot of good. And I think

1:00:58

you're going to bring the spirit of

1:01:01

the artist into

1:01:03

the influence of a classroom and

1:01:06

merge those things with the practicality you've

1:01:08

learned by being out in the workforce,

1:01:10

both in journalism and marketing. And

1:01:13

I think your students will be well served because

1:01:15

you have some interesting combinations

1:01:17

of passions and life experience that

1:01:20

are going to add up to a classroom environment. These

1:01:23

kids are going to feel supported and

1:01:25

motivated. That's my guess. I

1:01:29

hope so. I hope so. I really feel

1:01:31

like, and like,

1:01:34

like you said, like, I think

1:01:36

there's a whole generation, multiple younger

1:01:39

generations going through this thing right

1:01:41

now that's like, how

1:01:44

are we ever supposed to find success

1:01:46

or peace or connections or community

1:01:48

or whatever? And like, you

1:01:51

know, that's part of what

1:01:53

keeps kept drawing me back to this idea

1:01:55

and eventually just lets me going

1:01:57

all in on it was like. I

1:02:00

just felt like the world

1:02:03

that I unlocked for myself through

1:02:05

something like improv comedy is

1:02:07

something that I was like, I want to bring that to

1:02:09

people. And like, I, and

1:02:12

this is kind of a separate random

1:02:15

thought of mine, but like, I almost

1:02:17

feel like and I'm actually curious if you reached

1:02:19

a point of cynicism, like, to go back to

1:02:21

the beginning of our conversation, if you

1:02:23

reached a point of cynicism with improv at some point,

1:02:25

because I know, like you said, you're so deep in

1:02:27

it. Because

1:02:30

like, part of me thinks of it as

1:02:32

like, is there anything? Is

1:02:34

there any activity that the world could use more right

1:02:36

now than something where you're forced to just connect with

1:02:38

strangers and learn how to support each other? Like,

1:02:41

look each other in the eye and just figure it

1:02:43

out? You know, like, I almost feel like

1:02:45

it's the art form most well

1:02:47

suited for our moment, but it's still so niche,

1:02:49

you know? Well, the

1:02:52

work that I'm doing at laughing together.org is,

1:02:54

hey, this stuff has real value for human

1:02:56

connection. Like, let's put the funny part of

1:02:58

it aside. And what you have are a

1:03:00

lot of exercises that are game

1:03:03

based things that kids can understand

1:03:05

that focus on human connection and

1:03:07

building a group mentality. So

1:03:11

that's kind of the premise of my day job. And

1:03:13

I found myself surprised to be in it. Because

1:03:16

you asked about my cynicism with improv. And I

1:03:18

would say, I

1:03:21

mean, I started improvising when I was 17, started doing

1:03:24

it in New York City when I was 20. And

1:03:28

was hardcore into it forever. And also, I mean, if you

1:03:30

know your history, you can vouch for me, the UCB theater

1:03:32

in New York was like a

1:03:37

strangely successful place for many years

1:03:39

and also a very competitive place.

1:03:43

And to be in that mix and kind of

1:03:45

in the at the core of it for years

1:03:48

was challenging and exciting

1:03:50

but look

1:03:53

at the end of the

1:03:55

day, if we're just going to

1:03:58

get into it, I think the downside of it. I

1:04:00

think the art form itself is truly beautiful and

1:04:03

like you said has so much value to offer

1:04:05

and that there are a lot

1:04:07

of people in this world who feel very lonely

1:04:09

or feel like they don't know how to express

1:04:11

themselves and a lot of kids who

1:04:13

spent two to three years not

1:04:15

really communicating in a way that the

1:04:18

human animal wants to communicate with other people

1:04:20

and all of those things are valuable. I

1:04:23

also just think and UCB had

1:04:25

had something to do with this of

1:04:27

like improv

1:04:31

can there's a lot of people listening right now

1:04:33

who are just going my friend invited me to

1:04:35

their improv show and it Was fucking terrible. There's

1:04:37

also just some side of that And

1:04:41

there's some side of it as artists where I

1:04:43

think it became kind of a hip thing to

1:04:45

do for a few years there and then

1:04:47

all of a sudden people got taking that

1:04:49

for granted and then there's people paying money to

1:04:51

go see improv shows and there's like people

1:04:54

standing on stage wearing like

1:04:58

cargo shorts and

1:05:00

kind of being lazy about it, you

1:05:03

know what I mean like late there's nothing more

1:05:05

insulting to an audience than Improv

1:05:09

show that feels like that combination

1:05:11

of cocky and lazy and there's a

1:05:13

lot of yeah a lot of that out there. So

1:05:16

I Do think

1:05:18

there's a lot of it's such a turn

1:05:20

off. Yeah When someone comes

1:05:22

out and there's like thanks for paying 15 bucks

1:05:24

for this. I'm wearing fucking flip-flops on stage Like

1:05:26

I don't want to sound like old man theater

1:05:29

But it's all and then you know, it's so many groups that I do

1:05:31

the thing of like hey, we're

1:05:34

gonna just like Interview you for 20 minutes

1:05:36

and kind of make fun of your

1:05:38

day job And then I guess we'll do some scenes and it's

1:05:40

like now you got to put in the work And I

1:05:43

think as far I although I have to say this

1:05:47

If ska can come back as hard as

1:05:49

ska has improv can come back to Ska

1:05:53

is back baby and people will fun of

1:05:55

Scott. Yes and prop can come back But

1:05:57

some of it is we need some groups start

1:06:00

leading the charge again in a way that feels

1:06:02

like really driven and motivated

1:06:04

and incredibly

1:06:08

yes professional and respectful of the audience

1:06:10

and there was always a side of

1:06:12

improv that had some counterculture feel to

1:06:14

it and some activist feel to it

1:06:18

when I think it's been at its most thriving

1:06:20

and we need somebody who's going to bring

1:06:22

some of that back not to be pretentious

1:06:24

or overly insert that stuff into comedy but

1:06:26

to have that hunger to it again because

1:06:29

I think it got popular enough that people

1:06:32

started getting cocky about it and that was showing

1:06:34

up on stage and then that bit the

1:06:36

entire art form in the ass because

1:06:38

every single person has now been invited

1:06:41

to their friend's level

1:06:43

two class improv show and has gone

1:06:45

and been there and never doing that

1:06:47

again so it was you

1:06:49

know at a certain point I kind of felt

1:06:52

like as a culture I didn't want to

1:06:54

participate in something that had gotten that that

1:06:56

was taking its own audience for granted and that's not 100 but

1:06:59

at least in my case at my home theater

1:07:01

I was feeling that so I moved on but

1:07:04

I still very much believe in its power as

1:07:06

an art form. I

1:07:09

get that and there's also as I'm we have probably

1:07:11

what five minutes left? Let's go

1:07:14

ahead and check we got eight minutes left

1:07:16

and then we'll do the behind

1:07:18

the paywall content that'll give us even more of

1:07:20

a chance to talk to. Yes well

1:07:24

I was just going to say there's a whole

1:07:26

other dark side to it too that I've personally

1:07:28

experienced that would take me another hour

1:07:30

to tell you about but like it's like

1:07:33

it is such an open

1:07:36

vulnerable earnest art form that

1:07:38

it's really uh it's right

1:07:40

stored right like it's in

1:07:42

a position where you can easily manipulate

1:07:44

people and their emotions and oh absolutely

1:07:48

I've seen some some tough

1:07:51

things around that

1:07:53

too. The amount of

1:07:55

people who want nothing more than to

1:07:57

be a flimsy

1:08:00

guru and a

1:08:03

big fish in a tiny pond in the improv world

1:08:06

is rough and I've seen it myself and you see

1:08:09

people who achieve status and improv and

1:08:11

then immediately start trying to date their

1:08:13

students or, you

1:08:16

know, throw their weight around on stage and take

1:08:18

all the best performing spots to

1:08:20

end, but that happens in any

1:08:24

subculture that

1:08:26

self regulates and doesn't keep an eye

1:08:28

on such things and I've seen waves

1:08:30

of that myself. It's a whole other

1:08:32

story, but I felt like it's

1:08:34

one of the things where you can be

1:08:37

made to feel like you've never connected with

1:08:39

someone more in that sort of context and

1:08:42

like you've never felt

1:08:45

that way about the world or about people

1:08:47

before and like, long story

1:08:50

short, I just like got pulled

1:08:52

into a situation like that with someone who

1:08:54

was effectively a teacher of mine. Like

1:08:57

a guru, like a guru manipulating people?

1:09:01

Oh my God, yeah, like to the

1:09:03

point where I later found out that

1:09:06

there were like several other people who they were doing

1:09:08

the same thing to at the same time, which

1:09:11

was like, which

1:09:13

kind of blew up my brain and for

1:09:15

a bit. I

1:09:19

know the type you speak of and

1:09:21

here's my guess. Yeah. Were

1:09:24

you at the time performing at a city

1:09:26

that was probably not New York,

1:09:28

Chicago or LA, but it was probably,

1:09:30

it was probably

1:09:33

a theater and I'm not guessing any

1:09:35

specific one, but I'm guessing like a

1:09:39

medium to medium large sized city,

1:09:41

perhaps one that is a liberal

1:09:44

bubble in a red state with

1:09:50

a theater that

1:09:53

presents itself as the counterculture

1:09:55

entertainment option in that area.

1:10:00

Most of those details are

1:10:02

close, I think. I

1:10:05

don't know that it was a counterculture theater, but the

1:10:09

rest of it is probably pretty accurate. Yeah.

1:10:12

You see it all the time, these gurus,

1:10:14

these gurus want to abuse their status and

1:10:17

authority. You know, let that go. That

1:10:20

being said, I mean, I also once ran a TV

1:10:22

show that was often compared to a religious cult and

1:10:24

I had to realize

1:10:27

that, oh, there's a real responsibility to that.

1:10:29

Don't fall in love with it. Try

1:10:31

to be careful and remember what you're here for, to

1:10:33

entertain people and try to make them laugh. Yeah,

1:10:38

you know, and I

1:10:41

want to go

1:10:43

be the kind of teacher who

1:10:46

is the exact opposite influence on people. Yeah,

1:10:48

you got it. You got it. You

1:10:51

got it. So are

1:10:55

you nervous about getting in the classroom? Are

1:10:57

you excited? I'm sure there's some combination of

1:10:59

these things. Let's break down the pie chart,

1:11:02

the pie chart of your emotions about

1:11:05

this upcoming change. Oh my

1:11:07

God. What do we have? Like two minutes or something at

1:11:09

this point? Three

1:11:11

minutes and six seconds. Oh

1:11:14

God. Okay. I

1:11:18

am excited for the

1:11:20

reasons we talked about of just being

1:11:23

able to impact his lives

1:11:25

and connect and like explore

1:11:27

that sense of play and learning.

1:11:30

And my fiance was a teacher and my

1:11:32

mom's a teacher and my grandpa was a

1:11:34

high school teacher. Like I know how satisfying

1:11:36

and fulfilling it can be to

1:11:39

help people learn things. I'm

1:11:43

somewhat nervous about going back to a regular

1:11:46

scheduled job and not pacing around

1:11:48

my apartment for an hour and a half talking

1:11:50

to Chris Gethard when it probably should be working.

1:11:55

And I'm also nervous. Like I don't

1:11:57

want to be alarmist either.

1:11:59

But like, there definitely is a level of

1:12:01

like, my fiance has said to me many times,

1:12:03

like, I don't know if I want you

1:12:05

to go teaching a school, like, I don't know if schools

1:12:08

are safe, like in this freaking country. So there's

1:12:10

that stuff too. But yeah, I don't

1:12:12

know. It's a lot. And I think in the grand

1:12:14

scheme of things, I'm a little bit like, I'm

1:12:17

so, so burnt out on the world that I'm

1:12:19

in that like, this

1:12:22

feels like a really good fit. So

1:12:25

I want to try it. And what the heck?

1:12:28

If it doesn't work out, there's

1:12:30

a lot of years left, hopefully, and I can find

1:12:32

something else. I'll go, I'll

1:12:34

go work for the ringer and write a

1:12:36

blog about like 10 things that

1:12:38

being John Malkovich should have warned

1:12:40

us about. Yeah. You

1:12:43

know? Yeah. And then follow it

1:12:45

up with like a very pointed piece

1:12:48

about Mitch McConnell. And you're like,

1:12:50

how do these things exist

1:12:53

next to each other? I

1:12:56

love it. And what I really love is

1:12:59

it sounds like teaching, first of all, hearing that your

1:13:01

family has a lineage for it. It's really beautiful. But

1:13:05

it sounds like this could either be something

1:13:08

that you spend decades of your life doing

1:13:10

to great fulfillment, or it

1:13:12

sounds like it might be the

1:13:15

other option is like, it's the thing you

1:13:17

did to, it's the

1:13:20

hammer that you use to smash your

1:13:22

old life apart, which

1:13:24

sounds like no matter what, it was probably necessary

1:13:26

because it sounds like it was probably driving

1:13:29

you a little bonkers. So

1:13:31

whether it's decades of fulfillment, or

1:13:33

it's an experiment where for a couple of years you

1:13:36

do goodbye kids, and then it's the thing that allowed

1:13:38

you to the larger life transition down the line, either

1:13:41

way, what a valuable and

1:13:43

commendable choice that's community driven,

1:13:47

and that has the right reasonings

1:13:50

behind it. So kudos to you. And

1:13:53

thanks for getting in the trenches as a teacher. It's

1:13:55

not easy. I'll

1:14:00

do my best. I'll do my best. What

1:14:03

else can we do in this long, lonely

1:14:05

life but our best? We're

1:14:07

going to say goodbye to everybody on the free feed. Thanks

1:14:10

for listening everybody. If you're a free

1:14:12

feed listener, we'll talk to you next

1:14:14

week. In the meantime, if you are

1:14:16

signed up at beautifulanonymous.com for Beautiful Anonymous

1:14:18

Plus, we continue, get a few more

1:14:21

minutes with our caller and hear

1:14:23

about some other

1:14:25

random aspects of life. Caller,

1:14:27

thank you so much. Thanks

1:14:29

for hanging out. I

1:14:32

really mean it. I

1:14:34

really feel like you're headed towards something that has

1:14:37

really great intentions and will

1:14:39

either last on its own or lead to

1:14:41

bigger and better. What a cool place to

1:14:44

be. Thank

1:14:47

you and thank you for

1:14:50

listening and for charting up an

1:14:52

inspirational path in a similar way.

1:14:56

No problem. I want to apologize

1:14:58

to both you and the listeners because I know. I

1:15:03

had a lot of soapbox moments in

1:15:05

that one and I'm not sure where that came

1:15:07

from. My apologies if I talk too

1:15:09

much. Caller,

1:15:16

thank you so much for being open, for

1:15:18

being honest, for letting me go on my little rant. Very

1:15:21

kind of you. I know

1:15:23

who else is kind. The High Priestess Andrea

1:15:25

Quinn who produces the show and

1:15:27

also Shell Check, two notoriously kind people who

1:15:29

deserve your support. They do our theme song,

1:15:31

Go Support Them. If you know more about

1:15:33

me including dates on the road, go to

1:15:36

chrisketh.com. If you want to leave a voicemail

1:15:38

pitching a specific call, 973-306-4676 is the voicemail

1:15:43

number and remember, one thing you can do

1:15:45

right now is follow us on our new Instagram app, YouTube,

1:15:47

on this part. This

1:16:00

week on Beautiful Anonymous Plus, here's

1:16:02

some of what you'll get from the five

1:16:04

questions. What's the

1:16:06

nicest or kindest thing you've done without

1:16:09

making it known that you were the

1:16:11

one that did it? I

1:16:13

like that, because now you have to go in

1:16:15

that awkward position of finally admitting to a thing

1:16:17

you have thus far kept quiet.

1:16:21

Oh gosh. Man.

1:16:28

Let me think. That's a

1:16:30

hard question. And

1:16:32

it is weird trying to think of some, basically being asked

1:16:34

to brag about something you haven't told anyone. Let's

1:16:39

see. What

1:16:43

have I done? Am I a good person?

1:16:45

What have I done? Don't

1:16:48

forget to sign up for Beautiful Anonymous

1:16:50

Plus at beautifulanonymous.com.