0:01

Ted Audio Collective. Hi there.

0:06

We are not Jen Gunter,

0:09

and this is not Body Stuff, but

0:11

we hope you'll stay with us. I'm Anne Morris.

0:14

And I'm Frances Fry. And this is something

0:16

a little different. This is an episode of Fixable,

0:19

our new show from the Ted Audio Collective.

0:22

We really hope you enjoy it. And if you do,

0:24

you can find and follow Fixable wherever

0:27

you get your podcasts.

0:28

Thanks for listening.

0:31

This is a new segment we like to call Anne and

0:33

Frances' Favorite Icebreakers. We

0:35

do a lot of work with teams, and we try to get

0:38

them to start communicating honestly very

0:40

quickly. So we think a lot about what are the questions

0:43

at the beginning of meetings that's

0:45

really create an environment where people can have an

0:47

honest dialogue.

0:49

A low stakes one I often

0:51

use is, tell us about a piece

0:53

of art that means something to you.

0:56

Oh, good. I'll tell you the one that moves me the

0:58

most. And it's a photograph that

1:00

our dear friend Emmy took when she was visiting

1:02

us. And our oldest son was two

1:05

or three. On the weekend, we took him

1:07

to the classrooms at the Harvard Business School.

1:10

Not break into the classroom. Not break in. I

1:12

mean, it's really an overstatement. But find our way into the classrooms, which

1:14

have just magnificent layers and layers of boards.

1:17

And we would rearrange the furniture

1:19

a little bit so that he could stand on it and draw.

1:22

Such a light footprint. Such a light footprint. No

1:24

one ever knew we were there. No. And

1:27

there's this one particular picture where he's standing on the

1:29

desk that's pushed up against it. And

1:31

he's drawing. And his head is tilted

1:33

as if he is an experienced artist

1:36

looking up at the work. He's appraising it.

1:38

But we can only see him from behind. But we can see

1:40

you and I from the side. And we're also

1:43

joining him in the

1:45

gaze. And so all three of us are

1:48

sharing a gaze.

1:48

And I don't know why it's so powerful

1:51

to me, but it is my favorite

1:53

piece of art. So

1:56

thank you, Emmy, for that. And thanks for letting

1:58

me think about that. I

2:00

love it too. All

2:05

right, I'm Anne Morris. I'm a company builder

2:07

and leadership coach and I'm here with my wife. And

2:09

that would be me. I'm Frances Fry and

2:11

I'm a professor at the Harvard Business School. And

2:13

you're listening to Fixable. This is a podcast

2:16

where we work very hard to fix

2:18

work problems fast. And

2:20

by fast, we mean hopefully in less than 30

2:23

minutes. That's the goal. Many

2:25

of our listeners know that this

2:27

has been a dream of ours for years to

2:30

have a podcast, an excuse to talk to

2:32

each other. It's a date.

2:35

Once a week. I'm

2:37

so excited to dive in with our first Fixable

2:39

caller. Who is she? Her name

2:41

is Kelly. She's a nurse

2:44

in a cardiovascular acute care

2:46

unit at a teaching hospital. We won't

2:49

say which one, but it's a very high

2:51

stakes job. It's a lot of work and

2:53

a tremendous amount of commitment

2:56

and generosity. Oh my goodness. Such important

2:58

work. Do we know what Kelly's

3:00

calling about? Yeah, so Kelly

3:02

says patient care. It takes a

3:05

ton of coordination, as you can

3:07

imagine, between lots of different people

3:09

and teams.

3:10

And she's really feeling like the communication

3:13

among all of these people and teams is

3:15

really suffering right now.

3:17

I work in a place where

3:20

you've got doctors, you've got nurses, you've got a whole

3:22

bunch of people, and sometimes there's

3:25

really poor communication

3:28

and it leads

3:30

to resentment and animosity

3:33

and ultimately it comes down

3:35

to quality of patient care.

3:38

If the people who are making life

3:40

altering decisions for these people are not

3:42

all on the same

3:43

page, these people aren't going to receive

3:45

good care and it's going to be extremely frustrating.

3:48

And I just, I want to know how to help foster

3:50

an environment that

3:52

can be overcome. industry

4:00

on the planet. And so I

4:03

look forward to diving in and finding

4:05

out how do we fix communication

4:08

problems that could have real health outcomes?

4:11

Yeah, I mean, communication is, it's

4:13

a universal problem in organizations made

4:16

more difficult by hierarchies, which

4:18

we sometimes have to put in place, particularly

4:20

in environments with high stakes outcomes.

4:24

And so I'm super motivated to try

4:26

to be useful here. I'm super excited as well.

4:30

So, Kelly, thank you so much

4:32

for doing this with us. Of

4:35

course, thank you for reaching out to me. Yeah,

4:37

we're really thrilled.

4:39

We're really thrilled.

4:40

And let me start there with, what would make this

4:43

conversation most useful to you? So,

4:46

I work in a unit where lots of the patient

4:48

population that

4:51

I have, they are kind of like, I'm

4:53

not a patient, I'm not a patient, but I'm a patient,

4:56

and I'm a patient. The patient population

4:58

that I have, they are cardiac-specific

5:01

patients. In the hospital I

5:03

work at, they are the sickest people

5:05

I can work with without being in the ICU.

5:08

So, the issue that I really have is

5:10

that you've got doctors, you've got

5:12

nurses, you've got nursing assistants, and

5:15

then like x-ray techs and phlebotomists,

5:18

just all these different teams, and

5:20

everyone needs to work together to be this cohesive group.

5:23

But a lot

5:23

of the time, nurses ended

5:25

up being the middleman for everybody,

5:28

and they're trying to manage their own specific things.

5:31

And really just poor communication is what

5:33

it comes down to, specifically between nurses

5:35

and doctors, that leads to poor patient

5:37

outcomes, ultimately. When

5:40

you think about where communication

5:42

is breaking down most frequently,

5:44

is there a specific level, or is it happening

5:47

at all of these levels?

5:49

I think it happens at all levels.

5:52

There's also often a disconnect.

5:55

If you have a patient

5:58

who has different teams, consult.

5:59

whether that's the heart

6:02

failure team and we have a surgical

6:04

team and we have an infectious

6:06

disease team and all of these people

6:09

might be consulting on a patient

6:12

and someone's putting in orders

6:14

from one team, but

6:16

the team I'm supposed to talk to about this patient specifically

6:19

who's managing their care is

6:21

not aware of what's going on, if not aware of

6:23

these orders changing. So communications between

6:26

those different teams is really important.

6:29

That sounds like a really complicated issue. Can

6:31

you give us an example of how this shows up?

6:33

I had a patient once who they put

6:35

in that she couldn't eat anything, she couldn't drink anything,

6:38

which usually means someone's gonna go for a test, some

6:40

type of test, some type of procedure. And

6:44

I went to the doctors and I said, what are we

6:46

doing?

6:47

And there's one attending

6:49

I've had who he said,

6:51

I have no idea, let's go talk to

6:53

the patient together, which is a very earth shattering

6:55

thing for an attending to do, he has my utmost

6:58

respect. So we went

7:00

and talked to the patient together and found out a whole different

7:02

team put in that order, had planned

7:04

for a test, not communicated that to the

7:06

patient and she was very anxious

7:09

about going for any type of procedure.

7:11

And so things like that can really increase a patient's

7:13

anxiety

7:14

when there's a doctor somewhere

7:16

in the hospital putting in orders for this patient and

7:19

not telling them what it is

7:21

that they're doing. Frances,

7:24

before we jump into figuring

7:26

out this problem and how we can make progress, if you were

7:28

gonna do a summary of what you're hearing as the problem,

7:32

where does your

7:33

beautiful operations mind go? That

7:36

I do think that the diagnosis that it's a communication

7:39

problem is right. I would say

7:41

that part of the communication is transparency.

7:44

So why are we doing it? And I think if the

7:46

patient's knew why, if you knew why. So

7:49

that's one part of it. And

7:51

then the other part of it is the let's

7:54

make sure when one person says

7:56

it, we all hear it. So

7:58

I think there's a breakdown in the... of people that are

8:00

hearing. And I think there's a breakdown on

8:03

transparency. And so the question is, how

8:06

to foster communication in a very

8:08

complicated system where you're not at the

8:10

top of the hierarchy, but how do you do it from the middle?

8:12

And I think many more

8:14

of us face that situation than being

8:17

at the top of the hierarchy. With

8:19

all the decision rights? Yes. How

8:22

common, when you think about the problem with

8:25

that framing, how common

8:26

is this challenge? So

8:30

a phrase that our colleague and friend

8:33

Amy Edmondson, who studies teams, she

8:35

uses a word teaming. And teaming

8:38

is when a group of people comes together

8:41

around a patient, but it could be a different group

8:43

of people around another patient and another.

8:45

So it's not like there's an intact team that

8:48

all covers each one. That's

8:50

inherently more complicated. I think anytime

8:53

there's that level of complexity,

8:55

this is gonna be at the center of it.

8:56

It makes me think in fast

8:59

moving environments, in tech, for

9:01

example, when there's fast moving and we're coming together

9:03

for this or we're coming together for that. Anytime there's

9:05

a temporary coming together, I think this

9:08

applies. And I also find

9:10

myself thinking about hierarchy here

9:12

because hierarchy gives us

9:15

a lot of comfort in

9:17

the complexity because there's, it's

9:19

clear who outranks who

9:22

is super clear, but

9:24

there are very material trade-offs and

9:26

one of them is communication unless the

9:28

systems are impeccable. Yeah, and I'll be stunned

9:31

if hierarchy is part of our solution. All

9:35

right, Kelly, back to you. So first

9:37

of all, before we jump in, does that summary of the problem

9:40

resonate to

9:41

you? Yes. Okay,

9:44

there were moments of light

9:46

and truth and beauty in some

9:49

of the relationships between doctors and nurses

9:51

in this system. Yes. And

9:54

what's happening with those

9:56

that are distinct from what's happening with the relationships

9:58

that aren't working? Um,

10:02

you know, I work with my older brother. My older

10:04

brother and I work on the same unit. We went to

10:06

nursing school a few years apart. And

10:08

there's one physician assistant

10:10

who I work with who he got wind

10:12

of that my brother and I work together. And

10:15

whenever I work a weekend shift with this provider,

10:18

he's always like, are you going to Sunday dinner at your mom's

10:20

with your brother? Like he just, he wants

10:22

to get to know

10:24

who I am as a person, not just sees

10:26

me as one of the nurses.

10:29

Like he knows me. And whenever

10:32

I take anything to him and I say, Hey,

10:35

I've got this problem with this patient.

10:37

Their heart rhythm is showing this. We

10:40

need to get on top of this. We need to give them this medication

10:42

to get ahead of this before things deteriorate.

10:45

He immediately is like, yep, I hear what you're saying.

10:47

Let me go check on the patient, make sure they're okay.

10:50

And then we're going to do X, Y, and B to

10:52

make sure that they're okay. And I think

10:54

that that has so much

10:57

strengthened our ability to work

10:59

together for these patients

11:02

is that we know each

11:04

other as people and not just another

11:08

member of the group. Yeah. Why

11:10

did this particular relationship have the oxygen

11:13

for you guys to get to know each other or the

11:15

space or what happened differently here? I

11:20

think that it's a partially,

11:22

you know, a personality thing. I think

11:24

also that a lot of the doctors,

11:27

a lot of the teams, when it comes to

11:29

like sitting down and doing their charting

11:32

and their computer work, they go

11:34

back and hide in an office. And

11:36

he's, he's one tool kind of hang out

11:39

at the nurses station and do a lot of his stuff

11:41

at the nurses station. And there's a lot

11:43

of chitchat at the nurses station. That's where

11:45

we all kind of

11:46

talk about our days and see

11:49

how the others are doing and talk about our lives

11:51

outside of the hospital. And

11:53

that's where you can learn that all these two random

11:55

nurses who work together and are always hanging out

11:57

are actually siblings. Like, I think it's

11:59

It's just important to

12:02

have environments where we're able to get to know

12:04

each other outside of our jobs

12:06

as healthcare workers.

12:08

So I want to start there in

12:10

the fixable portion of this conversation.

12:12

I want to start in that sandbox, Frances, if

12:15

that works for you. So

12:18

one place my head is going is, is there a possibility

12:21

in this system to not

12:23

rely wholly

12:27

on the personality and social competence

12:30

of the physicians for that

12:32

moment to happen? One

12:34

thing we learned from Agademy, if I can channel your

12:37

freshman year and the

12:39

awkward ice cream social moment,

12:43

would it be even structurally possible

12:46

to introduce some kind

12:48

of formality for new doctors,

12:51

new providers coming on, new nurses to say,

12:53

okay, here's what you do in your first

12:55

week

12:56

to get to know your colleagues

12:58

in this system. We're

13:01

going to make the implicit explicit. Instead of

13:03

going back to your room, we're going to tell you what to do. We

13:06

want you to do this work out here in the open air

13:08

where this kind of informal and organic

13:11

get to know you can happen.

13:13

So let me just get your reaction to that. Is that it?

13:16

Okay. Because I'm going to push on it. I'm

13:18

going to push a lot harder if there's any

13:20

traction there. I think absolutely that can

13:22

make a difference for people to get to know

13:25

each other that way. That

13:27

makes much less of a divide.

13:28

Here's what we see happen all the time. And I'm going to

13:31

use my wife who's an introvert.

13:33

Total introvert. I'd be back with no disrespect.

13:36

I would be back in the office with the lights

13:38

low, with the lights low. If

13:41

no one told you, you have to come

13:43

interact with the humans, your default

13:45

reaction would be to wander away. Yes.

13:48

Now for you,

13:52

for me, I would

13:54

be super energized by who are my new

13:56

colleagues. I'm super curious. I want to get to

13:59

know them.

13:59

I'm more likely to be in option A.

14:02

You are definitely. Of

14:04

the doctor who finds out sooner or later that you are

14:06

working with your brother and thinks that's the coolest

14:08

thing in the world. I'll work with you for 30 years and not

14:10

know it. Right. And I'm also

14:12

more likely to be the human in the system that

14:15

watches you go to your

14:17

like enclosed little office space which I don't

14:20

have and sit there and do

14:22

your important work which you're deciding is more important

14:24

than mine. I'm not deciding, right? I'm

14:27

more likely to make a negative attribution to that behavior.

14:29

I'm probably going to make a negative attribution. In fact, we haven't even done

14:31

it. And you're making a negative attribution to me right now. I'm

14:34

already mad at you. And I haven't even done anything.

14:36

I'm not even a physician. So

14:40

there is this category of can we

14:42

shake up this entry moment

14:45

and say, OK, this is just what we do

14:47

on this floor. We're going to lower the stakes.

14:50

We're not going to require approval from the higher ups.

14:52

We're just going to say this is how things operate

14:54

on this floor or in this unit. Is

14:56

it the first week you're on the job?

14:59

You do the following five things.

15:02

You do your work out here in this open space. You

15:04

have one on one rapid dating

15:08

meetings with all of the nurses

15:10

on the team. We're going to use a different metaphor. You

15:12

go to lunch over the first three months.

15:15

You go have a cup of coffee with

15:17

everyone you're working with. Pick the five

15:20

things. Lower the stakes. Don't look for

15:22

anyone's approval. Stay within the zone

15:24

of the things you can control. But really

15:26

go after this variable that you identified

15:29

that I think is so important and we see happen all the

15:31

time of the humans, the flawed

15:34

multidimensional human beings having

15:37

a chance to get to know each other

15:39

as fellow flawed multidimensional

15:41

human beings.

15:43

Right. I would so love to see that happen.

15:47

I feel like the pushback would be

15:49

that we don't have time for

15:51

an ice cream social. But I think

15:54

that if it's going to make communication

15:56

better

15:58

between the nurses. and

16:00

the doctors, then I don't think

16:02

it's that big of a price to pay. Yeah.

16:05

Where I would suggest starting is pick one idea

16:08

that you think is within the realm of possibility

16:10

in the system and brainstorm

16:13

with two other people who are as frustrated as you

16:16

are about, you know, what could we

16:18

do proactively to

16:20

introduce one element

16:23

that creates the space and structure

16:25

where this thing that's so important that we're relying

16:28

on organically, spontaneously

16:30

person, you know, relying on the personalities

16:33

of the physicians, which is random

16:35

and out of our control. Can we introduce a little

16:37

bit of structure and control

16:40

into this

16:41

scenario?

16:42

And if you don't have the power

16:45

to introduce such an idea,

16:49

figure out who do you think would be your

16:51

most likely ally in this system and

16:54

could you use their power to

16:56

do something like this?

16:59

Right.

17:01

Hold that thought. We'll be right back

17:04

after this quick break.

17:10

I

17:14

love the diagnosis that when

17:17

you're given a great personality and somebody with great

17:19

social competence, this isn't an issue, right?

17:22

So the issue is when the when the physicians

17:24

don't have either the personality or

17:26

and or the social competence. So

17:29

I love the narrowing down there and what do you do? So

17:32

what we just heard is something you can do by

17:34

giving a secret memo to the doctors like telling

17:36

the doctors what to do. I want to look

17:38

at it from what can you do? So

17:40

it doesn't require telling someone else.

17:43

But what might you do? And

17:45

here's what comes to mind to me. How

17:48

might you welcome them? So

17:50

you know, I mean,

17:52

a sign like welcome

17:55

Francis. Welcome Francis on

17:58

your first day on the floor.

17:59

We're thrilled to have

18:02

you. So instead of relying on

18:04

their noticing our humanity, we're

18:06

gonna notice their humanity.

18:09

I love the whole structure,

18:11

but my mind, and you can say

18:14

which one is better, my mind is what can

18:16

you do with superior

18:18

personality and social competence? And

18:21

this is talking from someone who's on

18:23

the inferior personality and social

18:25

competence side. And so

18:28

that would be the only thing that I would

18:30

add to it. And my wife loves a good competition. So

18:32

she's gonna frame this. I'm gonna wanna know which one you like.

18:34

She's gonna frame this as an either or, but

18:36

I think there's actually quite a beautiful blend

18:39

where

18:40

you're still accomplishing this

18:41

goal of creating the space for

18:44

our shared humanity. You're just

18:46

doing it in this beautiful form where

18:48

you have total control. This is a nurse driven

18:51

initiative and it's really centering

18:53

and celebrating the physicians.

18:56

And I loved your example, Francis, these

18:58

are small things that I'm hearing you propose.

19:01

Totally small, just small bits

19:03

of welcoming. Bits of welcoming. Let

19:05

me show you around the floor, like

19:08

making that a meaningful moment,

19:10

adding a little bit of time and space and

19:13

joy to that moment. I love that.

19:16

Yeah.

19:16

What's your reaction to that? So

19:19

one interesting thing is we've been thinking about this. In

19:22

a teaching hospital, other than

19:25

the attendings and some of the

19:27

doctors were just like a little bit below them, the

19:29

residents and the interns, the ones

19:31

who I'm really interacting with, they

19:34

switch out every couple of weeks, if

19:36

not every week. Like they'll all get to know

19:38

them and it's like, peace out, I'll probably never see you again.

19:43

And I have one coworker who I

19:45

watch her every couple

19:47

weeks. There's a new resident on the service

19:50

and she goes up and she says, hey, this is my name. What's

19:52

your name? Where'd you go to medical school? Where are you from?

19:55

And I have noticed that she does tend

19:58

to have...

19:59

better relationships with

20:01

the doctors because of it. And

20:03

I think that incorporating that

20:06

into my own practice personally

20:10

would make a big difference for

20:13

me. And I think the informality

20:16

of your suggestions, Francis, I feel like that's something

20:19

I can manage with my social

20:23

expertise, energy. Yeah.

20:26

I love that, Kelly. And I just went for

20:28

the record. I want to say that Francis has won this round.

20:32

She's going to want to hear that on

20:34

the recording, so please not edit this

20:36

out. And what I so

20:38

love about this as a focus of your energy

20:40

is you're back in the zone of things that you have

20:43

total control over,

20:44

which is your own behavior.

20:48

Now, I am going to push

20:50

you to experiment

20:52

with one or two things that

20:55

are a little bit outside of

20:58

your zone of control,

21:00

because I want to start firing up the

21:02

muscles of how do I

21:04

start to influence this larger system

21:07

around me.

21:09

That could be as simple as

21:12

talking to this colleague of yours

21:15

and saying, first, I want to learn from what you're

21:17

doing. I notice it. I want

21:19

to do it.

21:20

The other opening that gives you is also,

21:22

can you have a conversation with this one other colleague

21:25

about things you might do together

21:29

to make this practice more infectious? Right.

21:32

Kelly, where's your head going? Yeah, where are you? No,

21:35

I- Because we got more ideas. We're going to keep

21:37

swinging. No, I really am liking

21:39

this. I feel like

21:41

these are definitely things that I can manage, and

21:44

I'm grateful to have a manager

21:47

who I feel like I can take these ideas to

21:49

him and be like, hey, I want

21:51

to foster a more cohesive

21:54

environment on this unit. Can't

21:57

fix the whole hospital, can't fix healthcare, but I feel

21:59

like I can. like at least maybe

22:02

the cardiology department, we can say,

22:04

let's make things a little better. We've got a lot

22:06

of moving parts. These are sick people.

22:08

This is a little thing we can do to maybe

22:11

improve things. Worst case scenario,

22:14

we all get along a little bit better. Like

22:17

maybe it won't affect patient outcomes, but

22:20

at least it'll make coming to work a little less miserable.

22:23

But it might affect patient outcomes, right?

22:25

Which is where we started this conversation. I think

22:27

it's a beautiful frame to bring into

22:29

this conversation. You have observed

22:31

a really clear pattern that when there's

22:34

this kind of connection and trust, patient

22:37

outcomes improve. And some of

22:39

those really powerful stories that you

22:41

shared where disconnection

22:44

and miscommunication got in the way

22:47

of outstanding outcomes, I think are beautiful

22:49

illustrations of what you're trying to achieve here. I

22:51

think that's just a beautiful example and

22:54

framing for this type of conversation.

22:57

With someone in the system who does have a

22:59

little bit more power than you do.

23:01

Yes, for sure.

23:03

All right, so how are we doing on the helplessness,

23:06

powerlessness, we're gonna restore some agency

23:09

challenge.

23:10

I know, I think that going back to work

23:12

next week, I'll look at things a little differently

23:15

with the way I approach

23:17

physicians. What's your first move

23:19

on Monday morning? I introduced myself.

23:21

Yes. Yes. Yeah. I

23:25

love it, I love it. Thank

23:28

you so much. Thank you. And please keep us posted,

23:30

Kelly, and say hello to your brother.

23:34

Anyway. Okay. All

23:36

right, Frances, what do

23:38

you think about this larger issue

23:41

of

23:46

communication breakdowns

23:48

in organizations? So if we use

23:51

this as an example, part of a communication

23:53

breakdown is that we didn't give the why, right?

23:56

So we just didn't give enough transparency. That

23:58

is, we just gave you the. tip of

24:01

do this. But we didn't tell

24:03

you do this because of so-and-so

24:05

and if this changes do that. So the

24:07

do this, putting people into order-taking

24:10

role is actually going to require

24:13

your effort all day every day. It's

24:15

an exhausting way to do it, but it feels

24:18

like less time in any given moment. And

24:21

then the second thing is process was just

24:23

shouting to me throughout this whole conversation. How

24:26

do we make sure in a teeming context

24:29

that when

24:30

one person says something, everyone

24:32

hears it? Well, word of mouth

24:34

is okay, but we are really

24:36

advanced species now. Let's

24:39

figure out a way and perhaps even a technologically

24:41

enabled way

24:42

to do it. So transparency

24:46

and that everyone gets to hear it seem

24:48

to me to be the two ways there. And

24:51

a lot of the transparency is the why. Yeah,

24:54

I was thinking about where you started your academic

24:56

career in operations and

24:58

that the outcomes here where there is

25:01

reliable miscommunication, there's a reliable

25:04

breakdown in communication is entirely 100% predictable

25:07

based on the way the system has been designed.

25:09

But because of the way it's designed, where there's such

25:11

a scarcity of time

25:13

and space for the operators within

25:15

it to actually reflect, this problem is not

25:17

being surfaced and it's not being dealt with. And

25:21

the system is relying on the Kelly's of

25:23

the world to make incremental progress when it's

25:25

begging for really a top

25:27

down solution to meet the the

25:29

warriors in the middle who are working

25:32

bottom up. Yeah, and

25:34

so if this were the person with a different perspective

25:37

on this calling in, giving them the

25:39

fix to that would actually be straightforward.

25:42

Organizations that surface problems at a faster rate

25:45

improve at a faster rate, full stop. And

25:48

what's happening here is that problems are getting

25:50

sublimated. And what I mean

25:52

by that is that when problems

25:55

aren't surfaced, when we push them down,

25:57

we have no chance of improving. And

25:59

so we We want to elevate problems

26:02

and enjoy the experience of elevating

26:04

problems because those problems when

26:06

surfaced are precisely our improvement

26:08

opportunities. And the more problems that are surfaced,

26:11

the faster we

26:12

improve. Amen. And

26:14

so it would be super fun to talk to that

26:16

person, hopefully, if you're listening, call.

26:24

All right, that's it. That's our show. Thank

26:27

you all for listening and

26:29

for being part of this. We want to hear

26:31

more stories. We want to hear from you. We want

26:33

to hear your story. Let us

26:36

take a swing at fixing your

26:38

problems together. Email us at

26:40

fixable at TED.com or call us

26:42

at Thank You Francis for delivering

26:45

on the phone number 234-Fixable. That's

26:49

234-349-2253. We

26:51

didn't used to have a number that ended in fixable,

26:54

but that

26:54

problem was fixable. Like

26:56

so many, give us a call. Thanks

26:59

everyone.

27:02

Fixable is brought to you by the TED Audio

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Collective. It's hosted by me, Francis

27:07

Fry. And me, Anne Morris. This

27:09

episode was produced by Isabel Carter. Our

27:12

team includes Isabel Carter, Constanza

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