0:01

Okay, Adam, I made a benchmark

0:03

for the first time in about 15 years. You

0:06

made a series benchmark for serious people for

0:09

sure. Yeah. It's, um,

0:11

we were doing a video, uh, Falcon

0:13

Northwest about making a

0:16

PC, like a PC for games. And

0:19

I realized that there's not any real like

0:21

game dev, like light baked benchmarks or

0:23

compiled benchmarks and stuff like that. So

0:26

I loaded up UE5 and built a

0:28

little, a little, it's like a, I

0:31

don't want to call it, it's not like a

0:33

full real life run for a light bake because

0:35

that takes a kind of long time to run

0:38

for a real production level. But I made something

0:40

that I think is fairly representative of what a

0:42

light bake looks like. Um, if

0:44

you on a production video game on a video

0:46

game as video game. Yeah. Well,

0:48

and to be fair, it's way more than I

0:50

know about any of that game development stuff. I

0:52

know hardware. So it was interesting to see hardware

0:54

used in a different way. Uh,

0:56

if people want to see the video, it's up on PC

0:59

world's a YouTube channel now, uh, sponsored by

1:01

Falcon Northwest, thank you. It was a

1:03

good, it was one of those perfect testing

1:05

kind of scenarios where Falcon Northwest

1:07

was like, hey, we'd love somebody to test

1:10

this game dev stuff on hardware, we

1:12

don't have anybody in house who knows

1:14

game dev stuff. but we're like, Hey,

1:16

will, you know this stuff. Uh, I was

1:18

available. It turns out you were available. It

1:21

worked out perfect. It was a match made in heaven.

1:24

Uh, but yeah, I specifically

1:26

for unreal engine five, right?

1:29

Yeah. So, so the, the thing, so we had

1:31

two, two benchmarks that we used. One is, um,

1:34

a map compiled for the Anna cruisas, which Chet

1:36

was kind enough to let us use, uh,

1:39

which uses the tool chain that we

1:41

built for the game, which includes like GPU light

1:43

bakes. So instead of doing

1:45

those math calculations on the CPU, like, uh,

1:47

like you would in the old days, or

1:49

if you're really serious about fidelity, we

1:52

used a, uh, a light mass plugin that

1:54

was GPU accelerated on the Anna cruisas so

1:56

that like we could do

1:59

light bakes on all the artist computers. That was the

2:01

choice we made over there. It was, they made that choice

2:03

before I started for what it's worth. Um,

2:06

the, the, the thing that

2:08

we did with UE5, cause you know, like

2:10

we had talked about a little bit in the video, but I

2:12

think a lot of people think, oh, you don't need

2:15

to do light banks or anything like that anymore. Because

2:17

you know, people have, you know, ray tracing hardware that

2:19

can do real time lighting and

2:21

all this crazy stuff. And, and while that's

2:23

true, it like the high end of the

2:25

PC, it's a, it's a little bit less

2:27

true. The further down the

2:30

hardware, like the platforms you get.

2:32

So like when you're, when you're talking about like an

2:34

Xbox series X or a PS5, yeah,

2:37

you can do some dynamic lighting stuff, but there's

2:39

still probably some light, light bakes in there for

2:41

even like the high end hardware. When you're talking

2:43

about something that's running on a switch or like

2:46

an old G, you know, GeForce 10 80 or

2:48

20 80 computer, like

2:50

there, those are, there's light map city up in there.

2:52

So like, you still have to do that math. And

2:54

it takes a long time. It turns out cause you're,

2:58

you're basically like bouncing light from

3:00

every light source to every surface in the game and

3:02

figuring out whether it should be light or dark based

3:04

on how far it is from, from the, from the

3:06

thing. And that's, that's computationally expensive.

3:08

Well, and excuse my, my limited

3:10

knowledge for this kind of stuff,

3:13

but this is something that happens.

3:17

It sounds like it happens at different points

3:19

in the process of game development. You're like

3:21

baking occasionally to just see

3:23

how things happen. And then of course you're

3:26

doing like the final bake before it goes

3:28

live. Is that right? Well, yeah. So

3:30

there's like everybody's process is different on

3:32

this stuff. So like some studios will gray box

3:34

out an entire level and it'll just be like

3:37

flat shaded generic boxes that,

3:39

that are like, to

3:42

see how it plays, right? To build the content,

3:45

the, the actual gameplay and then worry about the

3:47

lighting and stuff later. Yeah. So

3:49

like, if you look at, um, I think half-life,

3:51

this is the way valve worked for, for old

3:53

half-life games. This is the way, um, like

3:56

a bungee did the old halo games is

3:58

they would, they would. gray box out the

4:00

level and build those arenas so that the combat

4:02

arena was fun. And

4:04

then, then somebody would come through and say, okay,

4:07

this big giant box is going to be a

4:09

big rock and this big giant box is

4:11

going to be a blah, blah, blah. And, and like, obviously

4:13

this is an oversimplification. Cause if you're talking about a

4:15

game that has like a big set piece level, then

4:18

they're going to get, they're going to

4:20

know what that set piece is coming in. So if like,

4:22

they know that like the call of

4:25

duty, Stalingrad level where you grab the, your

4:27

chain to the guy, you grab the gun,

4:29

he gets the second, second clip of ammo.

4:32

Like they know you're going to run up a big

4:34

hill. They know you're going to start at a boat

4:36

dock and they know that you're the end of that

4:38

is going to be charging some giant library or like

4:40

play Stalingrad like

4:43

a, like a, like a civic building. Right.

4:46

Classic. Yeah. But, but like,

4:49

if you're just running through corridors and stuff like

4:51

that, then yeah, often they start gray box and

4:53

those will be full light. So there's no, there's

4:55

no lighting calculations. It's just, everything is lit. There's

4:57

no, there's no shadows. There's no dark spaces. Um,

5:00

and then as the, as the levels get arted

5:02

up, you know, as the, as the environment artists

5:04

come in and like turn the boxes into chairs

5:06

and tables and bushes and shrubbery and cover and

5:09

all that stuff, then you start

5:11

thinking, then you start placing lights along with

5:13

that process. Right. And those, those

5:15

lights determine what areas are light and which

5:17

areas are dark. And, and, and, and that's

5:19

when you start to, to need

5:21

to bake those lights, those light maps.

5:23

And that's a very computational intensive, which

5:26

why, which is why the hardware matters

5:29

going into that. And then that's what your benchmark was

5:31

trying to get at. Right. Was like, Hey, what are

5:33

the, what are

5:35

the specific hardware requirements for doing

5:38

that specific kind of task? Right. Yeah.

5:41

Baking the light map specifically is a thing that includes

5:43

a lot of downtime. So it's often like a, like

5:46

hit the button and walk away and go have lunch,

5:49

go for a have lunch and then have a walk and

5:51

then come back. And that means that

5:53

that artist can't do anything else during that time.

5:55

Now there are a bunch of ways around it.

5:57

You can build a really fast machine, like our, our main

5:59

and environment artist had a giant thread ripper for, for

6:02

the early development process when they were doing this all

6:04

in the CPU. And, and he

6:07

ended up doing most of the early light bakes because

6:09

he had the big, the big giant CPU. Um, we

6:12

switched to the GPU light mess so that everybody could do

6:14

it as we got further along and had more environment artists

6:16

working and, um, made a lot

6:18

of sense. You know, it's, it's, it's,

6:21

the other thing you can do is set up

6:23

a dedicated workstation someplace. That's just the light bake

6:25

machine. And you, you know, you

6:27

check in your updates and then you run a

6:29

script that says, Hey, download the latest updates and

6:31

then we'll bake the lights on the following maps

6:33

and it'll just do those sequentially and then upload

6:36

them back to your, to your, to

6:38

your per force or get hub or whatever

6:40

you use for code management and asset management.

6:42

Well, I, I found the video very enlightening

6:44

as not a game developer. So hopefully game

6:47

developers will find it enlightening. I will say

6:49

as of today, when we're recording this, the

6:51

video is up on PC world's YouTube channel

6:54

and we do have some developers in our

6:56

full nerd discord who

6:58

are literally talking right now in a

7:00

background window that I'm seeing. And they're

7:02

talking about like, yeah, the different use

7:04

cases for different hardware. Uh,

7:06

but specifically one of them was

7:09

asking about, uh, like if

7:11

that, if that benchmark is going to

7:13

be included in our future CPU reviews,

7:15

because, uh, we at PC

7:17

world like to review components like CPUs and

7:19

GPUs. Uh, and we're always looking

7:22

for new ways to benchmark and test and,

7:24

and help people. And one of

7:27

the questions I had was, I mean, this

7:29

is something that you had created personally, which

7:32

is indicative you feel is

7:35

indicative of a, you know,

7:37

a, a certain specific part of game

7:39

development. But like sometimes I do

7:41

worry that this is not a benchmark that anyone

7:43

could necessarily do on their own. It's a lot

7:45

of times it's like, Hey, anybody could go down

7:47

and download Cinebench and compare scores.

7:49

Oh, what is my score versus your score?

7:52

It's open nature. But if this is like

7:54

something that was developed into house, is

7:56

that actually something beneficial to

7:59

an end user? So

8:01

you can, um, on this one, you

8:03

can, like, you have to be a registered, unreal

8:05

developer, I think to download UE 5.3.2, which

8:09

is what I used for the benchmark. Um,

8:11

the assets that I used are all either

8:14

assets that ship with the default, uh,

8:17

with their default UI, like

8:19

their default package or things

8:21

that I had paid that I had attained

8:23

a license to by either

8:25

clicking the, Hey, this is free. Or, you

8:28

know, like just like Epic does for games that you

8:30

download from the store for game developers. They also do

8:32

asset packs that are free all the time. And if

8:34

you go through and mash the like, I just mash

8:36

those buttons every day. It's just a thing I do

8:38

in the morning. And then you end up getting a

8:41

lot of like shrubbery and stuff like that. So the

8:43

shrubs in the buildings were part of one of those

8:45

packages. And I believe that

8:47

we're, that we can distribute that. I'll have to,

8:49

I'll have to double check, but Gordon has the

8:52

benchmark and the instructions for running it. So like you

8:54

all are welcome to use it. Like it's, it's your

8:56

benchmark. I developed it for you all at

8:58

this point. Thank you. Yeah. I

9:00

guess for me though. Yeah. It's like the,

9:02

the question we had somebody in our discord

9:05

asked like, is this something I could download

9:07

and run on my own so I can

9:09

compare and contrast, uh, you know, like they could,

9:11

they'd have to sign up to be an unreal developer. So, okay.

9:14

Yeah. It's available. Um, it's, it's, it's really,

9:16

really intensely multi-threaded in a way that a

9:18

lot of normal app software that you use

9:20

isn't like it's like up there with video

9:22

encoding and raw photo processing and stuff

9:25

like that. Like watch out cause it could burn down

9:27

your house. Welcome

9:57

to Brad and Will made a tech pod. I'm Will. I'm

10:00

Adam. Adam's here. Adam

10:03

Patrick Murray, PC world is joining us today. Brad is

10:05

on assignment this week. So, uh,

10:08

we, uh, are going to, we normally would

10:10

do Q and a right now and Adam

10:13

is good at answering A's. I listened to

10:15

him do A's answering on the folder this

10:17

week, the PC world podcast. Very nice. Uh,

10:20

but instead I wanted to ask, like

10:23

we're coming out of Compu-Tex season. And so

10:26

Compu-Tex is a big

10:28

PC trade show, PC specific trade show that

10:31

happens at the end of spring every year

10:33

in Taiwan. Adam, you've been for what? A bunch

10:36

of years at this point, four or five years?

10:39

Uh, well my first one was in 2019 and

10:41

then during the pandemic years they didn't have them.

10:43

So I've, I've, I've only been to three. Uh,

10:46

I can't remember how many Gordon has been

10:48

to, but it's a, it's a number of them for sure.

10:51

We, when I was at maximum

10:53

PC, we never went to Compu-Tex because it was

10:56

kind of expensive to travel to Taiwan. Yeah. Well,

10:58

it's a long flight. Some people don't like that

11:00

long flight either. Yeah. Like

11:02

look, our international travel budget at

11:04

maximum PC was like $4, which

11:06

wouldn't get us there. So I think

11:08

when I asked when your, uh, our boss

11:11

was like, yeah, if you can figure out a freighter,

11:13

you can stow away on, you're welcome to go. We'll

11:15

pay for the hotel once you get there, but we're

11:17

not paying for airplanes. Um, but,

11:20

but yeah, so like we've, we've over the years, I

11:22

think one of the things I loved about, uh, like

11:25

the work that the giant bomb guys did and what we

11:27

did at tested and, and, and stuff like that was talking

11:30

about, like we talked about the tech that

11:32

comes out of this on the PC world podcast. Brad and

11:34

I have talked about it a little bit. It

11:37

wasn't a huge consumer tech year in

11:39

terms of like big announcements.

11:41

Like we're, we, we got a little bit of

11:43

a hint about what's coming from the next Intel

11:45

and AMD CPUs, but that

11:47

stuff wasn't really ready. The Qualcomm, uh,

11:50

snap dragon elite X,

11:53

uh, SOC was announced and kind of,

11:55

uh, released almost immediately

11:57

thereafter and like it's fine. We'll. I

12:00

don't know that we're going to do an episode about that over here. If you want

12:02

to hear about it, they've, we've talked

12:04

about on the full nerd a lot over the last

12:06

couple of weeks. Oh, yes. Gordon, Gordon has been diving

12:09

in real deep. I know he's recording

12:11

a video with his findings tomorrow, so I'm,

12:13

I'm, I'm excited to see that. Yeah. Uh,

12:16

but the, but, but yeah, like it's, it's,

12:18

I think that stuff's interesting and

12:20

it comes and goes, but the thing that, that I

12:22

love to talk about too is that

12:24

each trade show has kind of its own vibe. Right.

12:27

Oh yeah. It really does. CSE

12:29

three, like we we've talked about both of

12:31

those a lot. Norman Joey

12:33

and I went to NAB a couple of times. That

12:35

was really fun and weird. Oh yes.

12:37

Yes. Like

12:40

NAB is the national association of broadcast.

12:42

I swear like Canon and Nikon and

12:44

all the people who make studio cameras

12:46

for like the tonight show and your

12:48

local news sell their stuff. So

12:50

you're, we're walking in there

12:52

and it's the same place that CS happens. We didn't,

12:54

I don't think we really appreciated this, but like, they

12:57

have demo booths set up that are

13:00

like local news booths or like a,

13:02

like a sitcom booth. So

13:04

you can demo their production cameras live and it's

13:06

just, it was just super fun. It was a

13:08

really fun, goofy thing to walk around and they

13:11

would hire models to just sit in these scenarios

13:13

too. The funny thing is I

13:15

used to review the cameras on smartphones

13:17

years ago on one of

13:20

our sister channels. I had a series

13:22

called last camp standing, uh, which I

13:24

like as a photographer, I would go real

13:27

deep into the testing of smartphone cameras, uh,

13:29

which was real fun. I miss doing it

13:31

honestly. Uh, but a couple of times we

13:33

attended any B uh, as, as

13:36

a company just to attend it, which was kind of cool

13:38

to go to a trade show and not have to cover

13:40

it. We were just there to experience it, which was cool.

13:43

Um, but I actually got to use a lot

13:45

of those sets for my camera testing at the

13:47

same time, which it worked out. Uh, it

13:49

was, it was perfect. It's awesome. But

13:51

like they had, they, they had studio lights set

13:53

up and they had outdoor lights set up. Like

13:55

it was, it was really like we, we went

13:58

to that more, more or less as attendees. other

14:00

than coverage. I think we made like three videos out

14:02

of there, which was low for us. Um, we went

14:04

to the coffee convention, which was, which was amazing

14:06

because that was where like the best baristas in

14:08

the world come to like show

14:10

off the stuff that they're most awesome at.

14:12

And like the espresso machine vendors and the

14:14

brood coffee, like it was, it was fun.

14:17

It was a fun, it was a fun

14:19

show that was

14:21

like during the day you drank a

14:23

ton of coffee and then at night everybody went to

14:25

bars and drank a whole lot of booze because you

14:27

had to kind of even it out through the like,

14:29

or else your heart would explode on the third day.

14:31

It was a good time.

14:33

Well, actually, I guess, do you think people

14:35

understand the difference between a trade show and

14:37

like a convention? Cause I think a lot

14:39

of people have been to or have thought

14:42

of like a San Diego comic con or

14:44

a Twitch con or anime

14:46

expo or you know, something like that

14:48

versus a trade show. Uh, which,

14:50

I mean, even some trade shows are more,

14:53

some are more business and some are more

14:55

like actual like coming to, to

14:57

look at announcements like media coverage. You

15:00

think people really know the difference? Like I

15:02

don't, I, you know, 20 years ago, I could have given

15:04

you a really good definition about whether you were there to

15:06

sell stuff and whether you were looking at buyers for big

15:08

markets and stuff like that. And I think now it's,

15:11

they've kind of merged. Like it depends on the

15:13

market. Like NAB, definitely a

15:15

trade show, right? Like, yes, people are there with

15:17

their products there. There's like guys with suits on

15:20

and they, they like, they have a clip, they

15:22

have a laptop that they can take your order

15:24

on or like, like it's an

15:26

opportunity for you to engage with a sales department of

15:28

a big giant company. E3, when

15:30

it E3, the

15:33

last time I went to E3 felt like somewhere

15:35

of a somewhat of a split between a con

15:38

and a trade show, right? It was like, for

15:40

better or worse. Yeah. But

15:42

it was, it was almost a giant press

15:44

event more than like, it's not like the

15:46

Walmart buyer was walking around and being like,

15:48

okay, we're going to buy 30,000 units of

15:51

Assassin's Creed this year. We're going to buy

15:53

10,000 units of Halo Infinite. We're, you know,

15:56

like, like that's, that's what that used to be

15:58

like. And I don't feel like that. It

16:00

happened at E3 in a really

16:02

long time. Yeah, well, and I've

16:04

never been, but I've heard Gamescom

16:06

actually has separate days for trade

16:08

versus public, which I thought is kind

16:10

of interesting too. That's what happened with E3 at

16:12

the end too. The end of E3,

16:15

the first couple of days were press and industry, and

16:17

then the last couple of days were just like you'd

16:19

buy a $50 ticket if you lived in

16:21

LA and go. And Gamescom does

16:23

work the same way. I can say, so for

16:25

Computex, I mean Computex, it's all about

16:27

the computer, a lot of computational

16:30

stuff, but there are different

16:32

levels in it from what I've seen.

16:35

Like you have the consumer end, which is what we

16:37

cover on PC world, but there is

16:39

plenty of stuff for server grade and

16:41

large AI kind of stuff. Like I

16:43

would say in a lot of ways,

16:45

a lot of those companies were focused

16:47

on B2B kind of

16:50

stuff where we're there more for

16:52

the consumer stuff. And Computex specifically,

16:54

their last day is open to

16:56

the public. But that's how

16:58

they integrate some people. And the crowds were

17:00

definitely different. You could feel the difference in

17:02

the crowd, but it still wasn't quite like

17:05

a public day at a convention

17:07

or even E3. I

17:10

went to one of the final E3s too.

17:12

And yeah, it did not feel

17:14

like that either. It still felt like mostly

17:16

work, people there to do serious work. Yeah,

17:20

and like for a

17:22

trade show, the

17:25

idea that there would be like a big mob,

17:28

like if you've been to San Diego Comic Con,

17:30

that you can get into places on the

17:32

show floor there that there's just so many

17:34

people you can't move around. Like you just

17:37

kind of have to get in the flow

17:39

of traffic and walk with them. And there's

17:41

a couple, like CS has a couple of

17:43

bottlenecks that are like that pretty consistently, but

17:45

for the most part, there's room to

17:47

move around. You can go and you can talk to somebody at a booth.

17:50

It's not just a massive crush of people all the time, like

17:52

there is at Comic Con. CompuTex

17:54

is the same kind of way. It

17:56

was definitely crowded for sure. And it depended on

17:58

what booth you were going into. But for

18:00

the most part, we could navigate it

18:03

except for there was one specific

18:05

time during the opening day where

18:07

two people came through and security

18:11

surrounded and just blocked the flow of

18:13

traffic. It was like everything was like

18:15

to a standstill and it was very

18:18

infuriating. Can you guess what those

18:20

two people were? They weren't together. They were like

18:22

one came through and then the next one came

18:24

through. Was it Jen Sun? Yeah,

18:27

yeah. One of them was

18:29

the CEO of Nvidia Jensen Wong.

18:32

The other one was the president of Taipei. So,

18:35

yeah, they actually came through and

18:38

like that. I had never seen

18:40

anything like completely shut down like

18:43

that before in the middle of a trade show with the

18:46

spectacle and the security and everybody taking photos and

18:48

all that kind of stuff that was definitely a new

18:52

experience for me at this company. So

18:54

it's funny, I feel like I feel like politicians

18:57

used to come to Comdex, which

19:00

was kind of the last North

19:02

American computer trade show that

19:04

I think the last one of those was in 1998 or

19:06

1999, maybe 2000. It

19:09

was early this millennium. But

19:14

yeah, it's so OK.

19:16

So CompuText is all about computers. I didn't realize

19:18

that there were I thought it was all consumer

19:20

stuff. I didn't realize that you were consumer

19:22

and B2B. I didn't realize that there were like servers and

19:24

data center stuff and all that kind of stuff there,

19:27

too. Oh, yeah. I mean,

19:29

they so they were there's two.

19:32

The the actual Nangang Convention

19:34

Center has two buildings and

19:36

then the main one has

19:39

two floors like

19:41

in. Usually the consumer stuff is on

19:43

the top floor of one of the buildings. But

19:47

the rest of it is B2B stuff. But

19:49

even on the consumer floor, like like there's a

19:52

company like Asus who has a lot of B2B

19:54

work, you know, customers, but then also

19:57

a lot of consumer

19:59

grade. Not only did they have

20:01

some of it separate like Asus had a

20:03

separate ROG booth for their gaming

20:05

stuff versus their Asus proper stuff.

20:07

But even in the Asus proper,

20:10

they had like large data centers,

20:12

you know, with the latest Nvidia

20:14

workstation server grade

20:17

stuff in there alongside their

20:19

pro art consumer based creation

20:21

tools and things like that. So it

20:24

was it was very integrated into it,

20:26

even though, you know, we're there mostly

20:28

for the consumer stuff. So,

20:31

OK, so like it's at E3,

20:33

your big booths are like your big

20:36

publishers and your platform. So it's like

20:38

Sony and Microsoft and EA and like

20:40

Once Upon a Time Activision and Ubisoft

20:43

and all those at CES. It's it's

20:45

like it's you know, CES is consumer

20:47

electronics. So for a long time, it

20:49

was Intel and Microsoft and Panasonic and

20:51

Samsung and LG and folks

20:53

like that. And

20:57

like they're selling everything from

20:59

like washing machines and dryers and

21:01

robot vacuums, TV, LG, to

21:04

TVs and phones. What

21:07

are the big booths at Computex? So

21:10

for the consumer stuff specifically, it

21:12

kind of culminated on that that

21:14

second floor in the middle. And

21:16

there was four major booths. Two

21:19

of them were Asus. Like I said, one of them

21:21

was RG. The other one was more Asus

21:24

brand, Asus. The other one was

21:26

Gigabyte. And the last one was MSI. So

21:29

that was kind of like the dead center of

21:31

the floor. You would you could stand

21:33

there right in the middle and you're just like looking

21:35

at these huge booths surrounding you.

21:38

Those were the main four that were

21:40

huge. It's it's amazing to

21:42

me that it's motherboard and video card

21:44

companies. I mean, I guess that Asus

21:47

sells PCs as well, laptops as well. Gigabyte

21:50

PCs or they just components? They

21:54

who? That is a good question. They do

21:56

have laptops. They were showing off a lot

21:58

of stuff there. I can't remember if they.

22:00

they do pre-builds or not. That's actually a

22:02

good question, but mostly laptops. Yeah.

22:05

Yeah. I mean, I think that's all that

22:07

kind of stuff. So I would

22:09

say laptop was definitely a huge focus

22:11

there. Obviously there's the whole Snapdragon stuff.

22:14

Intel announced lunar lake, you know, AMD

22:16

announced their new rise in AI 300

22:18

series. I mean, there

22:20

was a lot of news, but yeah,

22:22

the, the major vendors like Intel,

22:25

AMD, and Nvidia didn't really have boosts

22:27

there. They were partnered with certain booths.

22:30

Like they definitely had presences there.

22:33

And a lot of them were official

22:35

keynotes of CompuText. So

22:38

their impact was very much felt,

22:41

but yeah, it's not like you could walk

22:43

up to an Intel booth and check out all

22:45

their laptops or an Nvidia booth and check out

22:47

all their, you know, GPUs and

22:49

things like that. It

22:51

kind of makes less it's, it's, it's

22:53

conceptually interesting to me that there's like

22:56

a booth for motherboard. Like, I mean,

22:59

I guess that's not fair. Cause it's a SUSE, I'm

23:01

sure sells way more laptops than they sell enthusiast motherboards

23:03

at this point. 100%. Yeah.

23:05

Yeah. Several orders of magnitude probably.

23:08

But, but it's, it's just, it's, it's interesting.

23:10

Cause it's a thing that like, I

23:12

haven't been to a PC trade show

23:14

since comp comp complex shut down in

23:16

like 2019. Sorry, 1999 or 2000. Right. I

23:22

mean, it's fun. Like I love it. And that's,

23:24

that's, I mean, I'd love comp techs for a

23:27

number of reasons, but, uh, being

23:29

there specifically just for everyone to

23:31

celebrate the PC is awesome.

23:34

Like whether you, you know, or

23:36

in laptops or DIY desktops, even

23:39

the server grade stuff, like everyone's

23:42

there for computing and rah, rah,

23:44

yes. Uh, hard hardware is, is

23:46

amazing, which is definitely different than

23:48

the CS. Uh, CS

23:50

is like all tech. And

23:53

while there is a lot of PC stuff

23:55

that we cover at CS, none

23:58

of it is on any show floor. It's

24:00

like all meetings and we're going from like

24:02

meeting to meeting where CompuTex

24:04

is really the only trade show or that

24:07

you can go on a show floor and just

24:09

see PC stuff. So that

24:12

is definitely like a huge difference that, that I

24:14

love. One of the reasons why I love CompuTex.

24:16

Yeah. Yeah. At CES, the PC stuff always

24:19

felt like a little bit of, um, uh,

24:21

it's not an afterthought cause that's not exactly fair, but,

24:24

but like, they'd be like, oh, by the way, if it,

24:26

when you asked to see PC stuff, they acted the people

24:28

who were doing booth tours or whatever, always like, oh, oh,

24:32

well, let me go find somebody. I don't know who you

24:34

talked to about that. Cause we were the first people who

24:36

asked about that. Right. Oh wow. Okay. Um, or

24:39

you were in some like far away end of

24:41

the, of the convention hall where like,

24:43

you had to go, go to the, go to the

24:46

west hall and then go upstairs to the very

24:48

far back. And then there'd be like ACE

24:50

tech would be back there with a bunch

24:52

of all in one coolers that

24:54

they were selling to other OEMs, not even

24:56

to consumers. So. That's funny. Well, yeah. Like

24:58

I, I actually had, uh, a,

25:01

a personal goal of mine to never

25:03

go to the Las Vegas convention center

25:05

during CES cause we never had to.

25:08

So I've been going to CS since 2016. Um,

25:11

and there's only been one time that

25:14

I've ever set foot in Las

25:16

Vegas convention center

25:18

proper because that's not

25:20

where the PC stuff is. Like Las Vegas

25:22

convention center with the three huge halls. Like

25:25

we said earlier, it's all refrigerators

25:27

and TVs and you know, more

25:29

consumer based stuff. Uh, they've,

25:31

they've now expanded also, or I mean, not

25:33

now, but a number of

25:35

years ago they expanded out into the, we used

25:37

to be called the sands expo. Now it's the

25:40

Venetian expo center. And that is

25:42

usually more like smart home or,

25:44

uh, uh, biohacking, you know, like,

25:46

like smartwatches and, and, um, like

25:48

fitness kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

25:50

So like, like that's kind of

25:52

the show floor for that stuff.

25:54

And then most of the, the

25:57

PC PC vendors, whether it's

25:59

desktop or. laptop usually have meeting

26:01

rooms at the Sands meeting.

26:04

Like the, like there's like an offshoot off to the

26:06

side of the show floor. That's

26:08

just like all meeting rooms. So there's a lot going

26:10

on there for, for damn sure, but not, not like

26:12

compy techs, compy techs usually get to show up and

26:15

look around and be amazed by, by

26:17

the spectacle. Well, and it's

26:19

also, it's also the place that like

26:22

case manufacturers come. Right. So, so

26:24

like, for your enthusiast PC

26:26

builder, which I think is of interest to

26:28

the tech pod audience, probably like

26:30

the, like you have your, you

26:32

have your fractals and your Leon Lees

26:34

and your cooler masters all are set

26:37

up with, with their new hotness for

26:39

the next year. And, and

26:41

you get to kind of see the future of what, what

26:43

cases look like, right? Yeah. Well, and

26:45

the, we have a couple of new people on our

26:47

team. This was their first time going to a

26:49

compy techs and a lot of them joke. They were like, oh

26:52

my God, everyone has a cooler. Who

26:54

doesn't make a cooler? Like, cause a lot of

26:56

these vendors, you know, that specialize in something else

26:59

also were like, oh yeah, we also have an

27:01

either an AIO or some air

27:04

tower cooler. Yeah. All

27:06

I can just kind of margins on AIOs must

27:08

be real good. Well, hey,

27:10

Zalman, Zalman still had a booth there. They

27:12

were showing off, you know, new stuff, but

27:14

they still had their, their, their typical, you

27:17

know, copper. What's, what was

27:19

the name of that? That like, just kind

27:21

of like fanned out CPU onion thing. Yeah.

27:24

Like I don't know how to describe

27:26

it, but it's a classic Zalman, uh,

27:28

PC or a CPU cooler. Yeah.

27:31

They were always doing low profile

27:33

and like really efficient air coolers.

27:36

Um, like they, they

27:38

often would come out of compu techs in the

27:40

old days with like, Hey, we built a case

27:42

that's completely passively cooled. No fans needed it. And

27:44

you had some like crazy heat pipe thing that

27:46

went from the CPU up onto the, onto the

27:48

case. And then the case had a bunch of

27:51

like aluminum radiator fins on it. So you, so

27:53

the whole thing would just get kind of warm.

27:55

Um, I

27:57

don't think it would work in the modern era. Unfortunately. No,

28:00

there were some manufacturers who were, I

28:03

would say one of the spectacles that a lot of

28:05

these booths to get people

28:07

in, regardless of whether they were

28:09

looking for that company specific product or not,

28:11

was a lot of these booths had hired

28:13

people to do case mods. So

28:16

like, we didn't do

28:18

one this year, but last year we actually did like a

28:20

big round up of all the case mods that we saw

28:22

that were cool. So like, there was a lot of cool

28:24

stuff to be had there.

28:26

Like last year, somebody had built a computer

28:28

inside of one of the alien eggs, which

28:32

was and then had like dry ice

28:34

coming out of the top kind of thing. Or

28:36

yeah, it was, yeah, case mods. Like I'm,

28:39

I am not into case mods

28:41

myself because I'm not inclined to

28:43

work on things like that. But

28:46

yeah, like, like there's definitely a lot of cool people that

28:48

do cool stuff and you walk by and you're like, Oh

28:50

my God, that's a computer. That's

28:53

pretty awesome. That

28:56

the attention to spectacle and like there were, there

28:58

used to be, I don't know if they still

29:00

do this, but this was a, I think

29:02

this was Gordon's theory, was

29:04

that case manufacturers, especially would gin

29:06

up something that would be impossible

29:08

to manufacture to, they would show off

29:10

at Computex just as a red herring. So everybody else

29:13

would try to knock it off and then run the

29:16

tooling costs would run them out of business

29:18

theoretically cause just cause speed bumps for each

29:20

each other chasing impossible to

29:22

manufacture products. Um, and,

29:25

and I mean, I think

29:27

that used to be the case, but now I think we're good

29:29

enough at manufacturing that there's not really a whole lot that's impossible

29:31

to manufacture anymore. Yeah. And

29:33

I would say the, at least since

29:36

I've been going to CS and Computex

29:38

and these kinds of trade shows, the,

29:40

the last company that would do spectacle

29:42

just for spectacle sake was like razor.

29:45

Like usually they would come to a CS

29:47

and have some sort of like design that they

29:50

were like, you know, kind of

29:52

cagey about whether this was going to come out or not.

29:54

But it was like the thing of like, Oh my God,

29:56

did you see what razor made? But even they've kind of

29:58

fallen by the wayside on that. I, I, we

30:01

don't really see that too much anymore of like,

30:04

just, just really like, you know,

30:07

going crazy with something design

30:10

wise. Yeah. I remember razor brought

30:12

a proto steam deck thing like 12 years

30:14

ago, 13 years,

30:16

a long, long time ago to CES. And

30:20

it was like a, it was a slab computer

30:22

with two handles on the side that had their

30:24

kind of crappy controllers sticks on it. And

30:26

they were like, look, yeah, you can play games on this

30:28

thing. And then I, I think that shipped. I'm, I'd have

30:30

to go look, I don't, I don't even remember. Um,

30:33

but it was, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it

30:36

feels, I don't know. It's, it's, I'm

30:38

interested. So who's, I guess who's not there like

30:41

your Dell and HP and the big American PC

30:43

vendors there. I

30:46

mean the, this is definitely a place for

30:49

trade shows to, or I'm sorry, companies

30:51

that are Asian based to

30:53

kind of like show off. And there's a

30:55

lot of like, just to be frank, still

30:57

like traditions that are, are not

31:00

as accepted in the U S like actually

31:02

there are still a lot of booth babes.

31:04

There's a lot of like, uh, like big

31:06

flower arrangements that companies will, will get at

31:08

their booths. Uh, you know, it was like,

31:10

uh, oh, hey, congratulations of what you showed

31:12

off at the booth. So, you know, some

31:14

of it is definitely cultural, uh,

31:16

and a lot of Asian based companies. I

31:19

most, most major manufacturers are there in

31:21

some sort of, like I said, like

31:24

Intel, AMD, Nvidia didn't have their own

31:26

booth, but they definitely had a presence

31:28

there. Uh, there were a couple companies, like

31:30

actually, now that I think about a

31:32

razor razor, doesn't go to comp, uh, Compu-Tex.

31:35

So there are definitely some companies that just

31:37

don't show up for Compu-Tex. And

31:39

I don't know if that's because they don't sell in

31:41

those markets in Asian markets, or I think they just,

31:45

I mean, especially in today's age, a lot of

31:47

these companies have been like, eh, we can put

31:49

on our own event and not have to worry

31:51

about going to a big trade show. So there

31:53

is some of that, uh, even razors less easy

31:55

to be and beat more consumer

31:58

product, right? It's not like you're selling. your

32:00

Razer gaming laptop into your fortune 500

32:02

company. Probably true. True. Yeah.

32:05

Yeah. So I would

32:07

say for the most part, I mean, representation

32:09

is pretty big. I will say

32:12

there are some companies that don't exhibit at

32:15

the show proper. Right. Kind of kind

32:17

of like E3. And I know we could come back

32:19

to that analogy, but yeah, like at some point, EA

32:23

peeled away from E3 proper. They

32:25

still put on an event at the

32:28

same time as E3, but it wasn't actually part of

32:30

E3. Same thing kind of happens here. There are a

32:32

lot of companies who were like, eh, we don't want

32:34

to pay for, you know, a

32:36

booth on the show floor or something like

32:38

that. So we're having our own event. Like

32:40

we went to fractal, uh, fractal design, which

32:42

makes a lot of, uh, popular, uh, cases.

32:45

And they had a, a, an event, uh,

32:47

like on the 88th floor of the Taipei

32:50

one on one this year. So they, they

32:52

were at the show. I mean, but they

32:54

were at the show. So, uh, yeah. Like,

32:58

what are those events like? Like at CES, those

33:00

events are often like, Hey,

33:02

we're going to have a CEO stand up and

33:05

talk for like five minutes. And then there'll be

33:07

hors d'oeuvres and you could take pictures of the

33:09

hardware, maybe talk to engineers. If you're really lucky,

33:11

is it the same kind of vibes or is

33:13

it? I would say

33:15

it is mostly tailored for people

33:17

to come in and get content. Uh,

33:20

for the most part, like, like, uh, I

33:22

went to an NZXT appointment and NZXT had

33:24

everything from their cases to their new fans

33:27

to, you know, like, uh, they

33:29

actually had a historical thing cause NZXT

33:31

hit 20 years. So they had old

33:33

NZXT cases like on a, like on

33:35

a timeline kind of thing, which was,

33:37

was pretty cool. So usually

33:39

they kind of know that the audience is there

33:41

to get, or at least the media are there

33:44

to get information, um, and

33:46

to either make videos like, like us or

33:48

write articles, get photos, all that kind of

33:51

stuff. Fractal was actually the

33:53

only, uh, event or

33:55

briefing that I went to that actually had

33:57

us sit down in chairs

33:59

and they had a, PowerPoint presentation on

34:01

the projector. That's always the worst.

34:04

Just to be honest, nothing against fractal.

34:06

I love fractal. But I've been to

34:08

plenty of those kind of events where

34:10

like you're up on your feet all

34:12

day, you have limited sleep, and then

34:14

they sit you down to do a

34:16

PowerPoint presentation and inevitably somebody starts snoring.

34:19

Not to be rude is just everybody's tired.

34:22

So a lot of times that is

34:24

kind of like, oh, please don't do that. Just just

34:26

bring us in and, you know, kind

34:28

of show the stuff. Well, like if

34:31

you if you have tangible things to touch, it's

34:33

always better to handle. Like, let us handle the hardware.

34:35

I want to see the hardware and and actually get

34:37

like be able to touch it and open it up

34:39

and look at it and poke at it if that's

34:42

possible. And it's the it's the reason you

34:44

come to the event. Like you could have looked at a

34:46

presentation on a zoom. Yeah,

34:48

yeah. And especially for desktop

34:51

DIY desktop builders, like it is important to

34:53

kind of get your hands on something and

34:56

feel what it's going to be like to,

34:58

you know, maybe potentially build with it. And

35:00

that's a lot of

35:02

the way that we cover our stuff is like,

35:04

hey, you know, what's announced? What are the key

35:07

facts about it? How does it how does it

35:09

feel initially to kind of build in? Unfortunately, like

35:11

a lot of things, I mean, companies,

35:13

it's it. Maybe they announced a product. It

35:15

doesn't come out till fall. So they have

35:17

our engineering samples. So you're still kind of

35:19

taking some things with a grain of salt. And

35:21

I mean, kind of like at E3, you show up

35:23

to a game demo and you're like, well, the game's

35:25

not final, so there could be bugs. So, you know,

35:28

that even happens in this space, too, for

35:30

sure. So it's definitely interesting,

35:34

but usually pretty representative of what like

35:37

final products are going to be. Like

35:39

very rarely is something behind a case

35:42

or like a glass case. And you're like, you

35:44

can't touch it except for I will

35:46

say this year Intel put

35:49

their new lunar lake laptops

35:52

behind glass and didn't let anybody touch

35:54

them. They announced it and

35:57

they had laptops at booths, but they were all

35:59

behind glass. which was very

36:01

odd. So people couldn't like

36:03

get hands on and run benchmarks on them, I

36:06

think, or was it something, something for, I

36:08

heard from multiple vendors that, uh, yes, that

36:10

that was a problem with meteor. Like their

36:13

previous launch is that people were getting a,

36:15

uh, you know, kind of pulling it off

36:17

to the side, running a quick benchmark and

36:19

gathering some information based off of, you know,

36:22

pre-release drivers and pre-release hardware kind of stuff.

36:24

And then coming to a conclusion and you

36:27

know, kind of thing. And so Intel was very

36:29

much like, we don't want that this time. Uh,

36:31

so, which, but then on the other side, that's

36:33

kind of a bummer for us because we couldn't

36:35

get our hands on the hardware. We couldn't

36:37

get any sort of a viable information of

36:40

like, okay, this is what it feels like

36:42

to use. So it's a double,

36:44

it's short, right? Uh, you know, every company kind

36:46

of has their own different way

36:48

to do it. Usually the air on the side

36:50

of, Hey, here's what we're showing. And here's what

36:53

you can mess with. Um,

36:55

but this year Intel was a little

36:57

more KG. Well, it means if the, if

36:59

like a laptop vendor does something novel with their design,

37:01

with their physical design, you're not going to get the

37:03

opportunity to handle it, which, which stinks.

37:06

Well, and, and I mean, a good example

37:08

is I love handhelds. Like that's definitely one

37:11

of my coverage zones at PC world handheld

37:13

PC gaming. Steam deck, uh, steam deck or

37:15

all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So the

37:18

MSI claw, they announced a new version,

37:20

an eight inch version called the, uh,

37:22

claw, eight AI

37:25

plus, uh, cause they, they figured

37:27

out a way to put AI in the computer,

37:29

which is one, thank goodness. Who

37:31

would have thought AI in the computer? 50

37:36

52. What are we talking about here? Well,

37:38

so it was a lunar lake based design.

37:40

So they were like, Hey, we can't wait

37:42

to show you this new handheld, but

37:45

I literally couldn't even put it in my

37:47

hand to feel how the handheld,

37:49

you know, was just like, is

37:52

it comfortable? Is it heavy? You know,

37:54

like, what are the ergonomics? How did

37:56

the sticks feel? Exactly. Yeah. Cause lunar

37:58

lake was inside. because it has, because

38:01

until last, you know, all the vendors have

38:03

lunar like behind glass. So that was, that

38:06

was definitely a real big bummer. I,

38:08

I, um, you mentioned this a minute ago and

38:10

I want to, I want to circle back. I

38:12

love when a vendor has either like, Hey, here

38:14

are all of our, here's, here's the timeline of

38:17

our products through the ages of her cooler master

38:19

did a case layout once where they had like,

38:21

Hey, here's our first aluminum case up to the

38:23

modern stuff. My all

38:25

time favorite of that is when

38:27

valve launched the vibe at GDC

38:29

in 2015, I think they

38:32

had all of their hardware prototypes. They had

38:34

an example of each of the hardware prototypes

38:36

and they were all just laid out so

38:38

you could see the entire run up from,

38:40

Hey, here's the thing with

38:43

cameras that like, that relies on fiducials

38:45

on the wall to track

38:47

your position in space all the way up through

38:50

shipping product on the end. And it

38:52

was, it was really cool to see like, Hey, this

38:54

is a thing we've been working on for a long time. Like it

38:57

was, it highlighted how much work goes into

38:59

making that kind of a, you know, any kind of

39:01

a product of any kind of complexity.

39:04

I love that too. Yeah. I do think

39:06

some companies are probably like scared to show

39:08

off some of that stuff, either because of,

39:10

you know, proprietary knowledge, or maybe they, you

39:12

know, are worried people get the wrong idea.

39:14

But I really do like when

39:16

like prototyping stuff has shown off the, the,

39:19

the only example I can think of

39:21

for prototyping stuff at this show was

39:23

a ZOTAC, uh, announced

39:26

their new handheld, uh, handheld PC,

39:28

uh, called the ZOTAC

39:30

zone. Uh, and so

39:32

they actually had like a 3d printed

39:34

models of different like hand shapes and

39:37

you know, that, that kind of stuff to be like, Hey, here's

39:39

where we're thinking about ergonomics. And I, I, I

39:41

really do like hearing the backstory of a lot of that

39:44

stuff. Well, as somebody who used to make

39:46

videos on this, it makes it really easy to make those

39:48

videos, right? Cause you can sit there and you can walk

39:50

with the PM and, and let them

39:52

tell the story and help and have, they can show

39:54

and tell it through, you know, through the different, through

39:56

the different iterations and what they learned. And, and it

39:58

ends up being a much. more interesting video than

40:01

just our product is running

40:03

a lunar lake, blah, blah, blah, at this speed.

40:05

And we have this many, our display

40:08

is this many knits bright and it has this

40:10

resolution and you can go up to 90 frames

40:12

a sec. You know, it's, it's, it's

40:14

always good to be able to show rather

40:16

than tell. So definitely. I'll say one of

40:18

the other things that I

40:21

love about Compu-Tex, I mean, this applies to

40:23

any trade show, but for Compu-Tex specifically, usually

40:26

by like day

40:28

two or three of the, the

40:30

trade show floor being open. Cause

40:33

by that point we've already been there for

40:35

like a week because stuff always happens beforehand.

40:37

But the, at

40:40

some point you start to see like these

40:43

like trends like, Oh wow, that's interesting.

40:46

There's like a new trend that's kind

40:48

of forming. And I, I, this year

40:50

specifically I did a video on a

40:52

cam two, which is a new low

40:55

profile memory spec that is meant

40:57

for laptop. But we actually had

40:59

some PC vendors, desktop PC vendors

41:02

who were experimenting with that, with

41:05

that design on motherboards. And

41:08

so like it was not something that was like

41:10

a big splash.

41:13

But like, like I started noticing

41:15

like, huh, it's weird. Asus, MSI,

41:18

a couple other vendors, they're, they're starting to experiment

41:20

with this and it was mostly like kind of

41:23

in the corner. And so I

41:25

did kind of a, I interviewed all of

41:27

them, asked why they're doing it, you know,

41:29

all the PMs and stuff like that. And

41:31

then kind of made a video based off

41:33

of my findings on that. So I really

41:35

do love like seeing like trends that kind

41:37

of evolve and like something that could potentially

41:39

be a thing in the future or who

41:41

knows, maybe it's a flash in the pan

41:43

and it never comes to fruition. Well,

41:45

the, the, to see a step

41:47

further, I think this is one of those things

41:50

that last year was the rear connectors, right? Definitely.

41:52

Yes. So last year

41:54

MSI and Asus and Gigabyte, was that

41:56

the other one? Gigabyte

41:59

started this. spec and then yeah,

42:01

Asus and MSI kind of

42:03

developed their own. For people who

42:05

don't know, they have motherboard designs and cases that

42:07

work with them that put the, the

42:09

like the ATX power connector and your

42:12

CPU accessory power and all the other

42:14

stuff. And it plugs into the backside

42:16

of the motherboard. So you don't have to run cables

42:18

around the front. You can just jam on the back

42:20

and then hide your shame. I love

42:22

it. I've done, yeah, we, we, we covered it

42:24

extensively last year's, CompuTecs you know, now that some

42:26

of the products are on market, I've, I've, I've

42:28

definitely covered them there. Yeah. I mean, you actually

42:31

helped me do a video on the channel with

42:33

the, uh, a Corsair 2500X I think was the

42:35

name of the case. Yeah.

42:39

It's, that was one of their designs that they

42:41

like ported over basically an old,

42:43

old case design for the, for the new mother,

42:46

the holes in the motherboard tray that fit line up with

42:48

the, with the motherboards. But yeah, I

42:51

actually didn't do a fault. Like I was

42:53

actually planning on doing a follow-up video for,

42:55

Hey, backside

42:58

connector, uh, you know, trends

43:00

came out of CompuTecs last year. Where do

43:02

we sit with it in CompuTecs

43:04

a year later? We ran out

43:06

of time just cause there's so much to do. So

43:08

I didn't get to do it, but there's definitely

43:10

a lot of movement in that space, even

43:13

though it's like not as, um,

43:15

you know, brand new shiny object like it

43:17

was last year. The thing I meant

43:19

to ask you about is if they're going to start doing

43:21

that on ITX boards. Cause that seems like the place where

43:24

really you could use the, the

43:27

ease of plugging in your cables is on

43:29

a small form factors. Uh,

43:33

actually, hmm, that's a good question. Uh, I

43:36

would say yes, there's been talk, but

43:38

now that I think about it, I can't think

43:41

of an ITX specific board that was shown off.

43:43

Usually it's fully ATX or micro ATX. Um,

43:46

I think one of the issues though is that

43:48

a lot of times the, the

43:50

ITX space right now is defaulting

43:52

to a sandwich style layouts. So

43:55

I think the concern is, you know,

43:58

in that kind of case, and you're, you're

44:00

actually running into problems. So yeah, I

44:03

think that's probably why we're not seeing a ton of

44:05

movement in the ITX space specifically. But I

44:08

mean, it doesn't mean you can't for

44:10

sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So like anything

44:12

else you want? Like I want to talk

44:14

about the other stuff. Cause like a

44:17

part of the, going to the big trade show is always, Hey,

44:19

you know, whether, how

44:22

do you feel about Vegas? Oh man, I got

44:24

to be in Vegas for 10 days or God,

44:26

I gotta go be in Vegas for 10 days.

44:28

I'm on that camp. Yeah. It's like,

44:30

I have a 48 hour hard limit on the

44:32

amount of time I want to be in Vegas

44:34

and the more days I go past that, the

44:36

less I ever want to go back to Vegas again.

44:38

Yeah. I've been to Vegas

44:41

too many times in my life and

44:43

most of them have been trying to

44:45

do serious work and Vegas is not

44:47

a place to do serious work. Yeah. No, no, no. Like,

44:49

like our, when we

44:51

were doing tested CES stuff real hard and bringing

44:53

like eight or 10 people, we would

44:55

do my days. A short day was 18 hours. Like

44:58

if I got five hours of sleep, I was really

45:00

stoked. Yeah. So, um, so

45:03

like Vegas is not like sleep deprived and having

45:05

fun. Vegas is one thing, but sleep deprived and

45:07

trying to work for 18 or 20 hours a

45:09

day. Vegas is no good.

45:11

And I don't know if you guys

45:14

have rendered this, but, uh, you know,

45:16

going from meeting to meeting, sometimes you're,

45:18

you're actually literally going from, uh, uh,

45:21

like a hotel or a casino to, you

45:23

know, different hotel. And I mean,

45:26

I focus, I'm, I'm primarily on the video crew.

45:28

I'm the head of video production. Uh, but

45:31

I, I used to just start off

45:33

as a shooter editor. So I'd always be

45:35

carrying around a video camera and there every

45:37

trip, there'd always be a handful of people

45:39

who would stop me as I'm trying to

45:41

rush to my next appointment. And they'd be

45:43

like drunkenly like, Hey, take my photo, take

45:45

my photo. Don't you want to take a

45:47

photo of me? And I'm like, no, I'm

45:49

trying to get to work. Get out of

45:51

my way, please. The thing

45:53

that always killed me was the cab lines in

45:56

Vegas. Cause like, there's no public transit. The cab

45:58

lines were sometimes an hour and a half. half

46:00

long. So our big innovation kind

46:02

of pre like Uber wasn't any better

46:04

cause traffic was bad. Our,

46:06

our big innovation it tested was, uh, our

46:09

office manager came with us and

46:11

she drove a van so she

46:14

would just ferry people around all day from

46:16

one stop to the other. And like, we were able

46:18

to get a lot more work done as a result

46:21

of having easy access to transportation. And it like didn't

46:23

cost a whole lot. It was, and

46:25

she got to come to Vegas and have a

46:27

couple of really nice dinners. So she was excited.

46:30

Well luckily it computes X most of the things

46:32

are centralized around the, the convention center, which I

46:34

appreciate. So, and then that is the rest of

46:36

it is usually around the Taipei one on one

46:38

area. Um, but yeah, no, I mean,

46:40

like any other trade show, we

46:43

usually show up about three days

46:45

before the actual show floor

46:47

opens because we're taking a

46:49

lot of pre brief meetings, uh,

46:51

preparing content, uh, you know, that

46:53

will hit some sort of embargo

46:55

during announcements, uh, you

46:58

know, maybe attending the actual like keynotes,

47:00

uh, and then the show floor proper opens

47:02

and you know, and then doing a bunch of, uh,

47:05

coverage like from the show floor as

47:07

well. So it's usually a trade show

47:09

for us is yeah, about, about a

47:12

week's time of, uh, of

47:14

covering. So, well, and the jet lag is

47:16

gnarly to going to Taiwan from even the

47:18

West coast. So, you know, I,

47:20

I didn't, I didn't get hit going there.

47:23

I got hit way harder coming back. Uh,

47:25

so, which, uh, and in the past I never had

47:28

to do this, but, uh, a couple of people on

47:30

my team, uh, had to

47:32

make that trek going from compy techs

47:34

to immediately covering E3, literally

47:37

flying to from Taiwan to LA to cover

47:39

E3 and the jet lag would hit him.

47:41

And it was horrible. I'm so glad

47:43

I never had to deal with that. Cause it

47:46

sounds like hell. Um, what,

47:49

so what's the, so you mostly stayed in the convention

47:51

center area when you're there? Uh,

47:53

no, we, we usually stay at a like,

47:56

or for most of the work,

47:58

yes. Like in the meetings or around. on

48:00

the convention center, but some of

48:02

the companies will do it at their headquarters because

48:04

a lot of them are based in Taiwan. Like

48:06

Asus has a really large headquarters, MSI,

48:09

Cooler Master, Nvidia has

48:11

an office there too, AMD. So there's

48:14

definitely appointments that we go to specific

48:16

vendors for, but for the

48:19

most part, everybody has some sort of

48:21

something around the actual convention

48:23

center. And do you get to do like fab

48:25

tours and stuff like that ever since all that stuff is there too

48:27

or is that in a different part of the Island? Yeah.

48:31

So TSMC, which is the

48:33

largest fab in the world

48:35

right now, supposedly doesn't do

48:38

a lot of press related tours.

48:40

So we've never looked into it.

48:43

And that's kind of the only one

48:45

that's within spitting distance of

48:48

Taipei, which that's where CompuTex

48:50

is specifically in

48:52

Taipei. We did do

48:54

some vendor specific tours.

48:56

Like last year, Gordon and I went out

48:58

even a little bit earlier and we actually

49:00

did a tour of

49:02

the MSI offices specifically around designing

49:04

laptops. It was actually a really

49:07

fun video. I can send you

49:09

a link if you want to

49:11

put in the show notes or

49:13

something. We essentially got to talk

49:15

to key people of the

49:17

laptop design team. We couldn't

49:20

see manufacturing because the actual

49:22

physical manufacturing was in mainland

49:24

China, but we didn't tour

49:26

that. But we talked to the audience

49:28

development team. We talked to

49:31

the actual design team. We

49:34

talked to the MSI is

49:36

one of the only companies that has in-house

49:39

rapid prototyping or

49:42

like a case, like

49:44

the shells for laptops. So they can easily

49:46

concept something and then kind of send it

49:48

down to be printed to get kind of

49:50

like a look of what it looks like

49:52

physically. They do some initial like

49:55

thermal testing. They do have a very

49:57

small anechoic chamber there. So we got

49:59

to experience. that was a really

50:01

fun video to put together. I would

50:03

love to do more stuff like that. Another

50:05

person who does awesome tours

50:08

like that is Steve over at Gamers

50:10

Nexus, who is a friend of

50:12

both of our shows. And yeah,

50:14

he's really good at kind of going

50:16

to these companies and

50:18

kind of doing tours based off of what

50:20

they can show. Yeah,

50:22

it's always hard. Like anytime you're in a factory, we

50:24

did a couple of cars. We tried to do a

50:27

couple of car things once and like the

50:29

list of, hey, you can show this, but

50:31

if this is anywhere in the shot, you

50:33

can't use that shot. And like, I have

50:35

to imagine the chip fab where

50:39

it's everything's secret is a nightmare

50:41

to shoot in. Yeah,

50:43

we have been invited to

50:46

specific Intel fab tours, like

50:49

the last one that we got invited

50:51

to. I didn't end

50:53

up going, my coworker Mark Hochman was

50:55

in Malaysia. They had a

50:57

fab tour in Israel two years ago, I

51:00

think it was. They have a

51:02

fab in Ireland. Though I

51:04

would love to go on one of these fab tours

51:07

in the future for sure. But yeah, it

51:09

is exactly what you were saying. Like there's

51:12

certain parts where you're like, well, you just can't shoot

51:14

here, sorry. We're just gonna give you the information. Or

51:16

if you shoot here, like

51:19

you're gonna have to be very careful of what

51:21

you're showing, maybe blur something out. So

51:24

my favorite note ever was, when

51:28

I asked if you can go into the paint room

51:30

of an automotive place and they were like, well, you

51:32

could, but you have to not have any cosmetics

51:35

on because if you have any deodorant

51:37

or hair product or makeup

51:39

or perfume or a clone or

51:42

anything like that, it can impact

51:44

the paint. It can

51:46

impact the curing of the paint as it goes on

51:48

the panels, as they come through. And

51:50

I was like, it's like, so what the guys who work

51:52

here don't wear deodorant, like, no, they have a list.

51:55

So they can buy these specific brands and

51:57

these flavors of the brands and stuff like

51:59

that. That is nuts. Okay.

52:01

That is nuts. Yeah. I, that's

52:04

crazy. Okay. So I think last

52:06

thing we got

52:08

to talk about night markets cause night markets look

52:11

like night markets came up a

52:13

lot in the key Gordon and I watched

52:15

all the keynotes together. And, and like

52:17

night markets came up a surprising amount

52:20

during the, during even the keynotes. What's

52:23

up with night markets Adam? Well, I

52:25

mean, it is, is very integrated

52:27

in a lot of Asian cultures,

52:30

but specifically Taiwan. Yeah. Has these

52:32

key night markets all over

52:34

Taiwan, but in Taipei, you know, there, there's some

52:36

specific ones that are very key

52:38

and yeah, like, like somebody

52:41

had shared, like there, I guess there was like

52:43

a Twitter account or something that was like

52:45

posting which night markets Jensen

52:47

from Nvidia was like attending, you know,

52:49

just like, I don't know who like

52:51

it's, I guess it's the equivalent of

52:53

like inside gossip

52:55

for, you know, people who follow large tech

52:58

CEOs. I don't know. I don't really follow,

53:00

but it is definitely a thing of like,

53:02

Oh man, this, this CEO appeared at this

53:05

night market that this night market is going

53:07

to get a bunch of boom. You know,

53:11

so for people who don't know night markets like

53:14

basically they, once it gets dark,

53:16

like nine o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, it seems

53:19

like they shut down the streets. Okay. Earlier than

53:21

that more, more like six, I think is like

53:23

the earliest one that maybe we went to. And

53:26

it depends. A lot of them, a

53:28

lot of them are actually markets that

53:30

are just designated that like, like

53:32

instead of like shutting down a street at

53:35

a certain time, it's like, no, this, this

53:37

little alleyway is pretty much always blocked off.

53:39

And, and, cause it's not just a

53:41

lot of times it's not just about like food vendors

53:43

coming up and setting stalls. A lot of times there's

53:46

a bunch of businesses that are selling,

53:48

you know, chotch keys and, uh, you

53:51

know, off, off, uh, off brand

53:53

Gucci bags to, to, to

53:55

people. So like in each one of them,

53:57

and this year, so I actually went, uh,

53:59

you, week early with my wife to do

54:01

a personal vacation. So I get actually, I was

54:03

able to go to more night markets than I

54:06

could during like a trade show, which

54:08

was nice. And so I think I went to

54:10

like a total of six different night markets this

54:12

last trip. Oh cool. And each one of them

54:14

really does have a distinct like focus

54:16

and like vibe to it. It's,

54:19

it's really cool to do them kind of back to

54:21

back. I mean, a lot of things are, I mean,

54:24

there's a lot of food, there's a lot of shopping.

54:26

A lot of the food can be similar to a

54:28

traditional time Taiwanese stuff, but some of them

54:30

are like, Oh, if you're going to go

54:33

to this night market, then the, this specific

54:35

dish is, is, you know, like, you

54:37

know, specific to this night market or, Oh,

54:39

you really want to get the one over here. There's

54:42

actually a night market. I'm going to butcher

54:44

the, the Mandarin because I'm, I'm, I'm

54:46

practicing though. But a Ningjia, night

54:49

market is, is more for like foodies. I

54:51

guess where you get like the, the really

54:53

good food stalls and there's way less of

54:56

a vendor stalls, like selling stuff. So

54:58

the focus there is food. And then another

55:00

one, I went to, um, oh, I,

55:04

I can't remember the name of it, but that one

55:06

like had way more like vendors and the stalls were

55:08

kind of in the middle, but really the appeal was

55:10

all the shopping off to

55:12

the sides. So, so, so what's the food set?

55:15

Is it like, are we getting, are we talking

55:17

about like, like, like dumplings and dim sum kind

55:19

of stuff? Or is it noodles or is it

55:21

really? Everything. I mean, you

55:23

see, you see a lot of the

55:26

same things. Like there's always some sort of

55:28

like fruit stands and usually a lot of

55:30

times there's multiple across the whole market. Uh,

55:33

you see a lot of like a

55:35

traditional Taiwanese snack is a, um, a

55:38

deep fried sweet potato ball. So

55:40

it's, it's very like airy, almost

55:42

like an Eclair kind of thing. Uh, you

55:44

know, so you just get a bag of those and

55:47

you're just popping them while you're walking around. Uh, so

55:49

you'll see a lot of, uh,

55:52

the same kind of things. Uh,

55:54

but then, but then, yeah, like I said, some of them

55:56

will be like, Oh, we, we went

55:58

to this one night market that had this. guy who

56:00

had corn on the cob

56:02

and he like would like lather it up

56:04

with something. And he had these series of

56:07

holes that he would put them in for different

56:09

times and different lengths. And I couldn't

56:12

quite tell what he was doing with them, but it's like, it

56:14

took like 15 minutes and then he

56:16

like gave this hot corn on a

56:18

stick that looked amazing. I actually

56:20

didn't get one, but my coworker got one. But

56:24

yeah, and then, you know, some of

56:26

it's really good. And then some of

56:28

it is oddities for people from

56:31

Western cultures. Like the two

56:33

major ones are like stinky tofu and

56:35

durian. And yeah, I don't want to

56:37

be too mean to people

56:39

who do love stinky tofu, but

56:42

oh man, like I remember,

56:44

I remember the very first time I smelled

56:46

it and it was not a pleasant experience

56:48

for me. I thought there was like

56:51

an open sewage somewhere and my instinct in my

56:53

body was telling me, dude, you need to run

56:55

something is wrong. And then I looked over to

56:57

the side and I was like, Oh no,

57:00

that's stinky tofu. What's

57:03

this? What's what's smells like open

57:05

sewage. That seems like a, so I've had

57:07

stinky tofu. It's not really something

57:09

that comes up here that often. It turns out, no, I

57:12

mean, there are places in the bay that you can get

57:14

it. I might put together

57:16

like a big group of us to

57:18

go try it or something, but it

57:20

is fermented. Usually it's like

57:22

some sort of, you know, fermented concoction

57:25

with tofu, fried

57:27

tofu, at least the night market vendors

57:29

is usually fried tofu with some like

57:32

cabbage and, you know, fermented vegetables and

57:34

stuff like that. I luckily, you know,

57:36

I am somebody who will try almost

57:38

anything once. And so I actually

57:41

have tried stinky tofu twice, despite

57:43

what my inner body was telling me to

57:45

not do it. This this

57:47

past year, though, I had

57:50

a mission to try durian, which, yeah,

57:53

fresh durian. It has a reputation to

57:55

be very rancid smelling to the point

57:58

where a lot of like. You'll

58:00

see signs up at like airports of like,

58:02

hey, don't bring durian on planes or hotels

58:05

will be like, don't bring durian back to

58:07

your hotel room. Things like that's just cause

58:09

it's so pungent. And

58:11

it is mostly something that you

58:13

can only get in Asian countries

58:15

like Singapore, Taiwan, places like that.

58:18

You can get some durian here in the States, but

58:21

usually it's frozen when it comes over and supposedly

58:24

loses a lot of its potency. But I

58:26

did try it this year. There was a,

58:28

I was at we're at a night market. There was

58:30

some fresh durian right there. And I

58:32

was like, okay, cool. I actually shot a little

58:34

video. I should post that somewhere, but. You should

58:37

put it in your TikTok. Yeah. I

58:39

should, yeah. And it was, I was

58:42

prepared for the worst cause a lot of people, you know,

58:45

hyped it up as a bad reputation, but luckily it

58:48

was nowhere near as bad as stinky

58:51

tofu. So I like, I was, I

58:53

was like, my first inclination was like,

58:55

oh, this isn't that bad. I've had way worse.

58:57

Like I didn't like it. I didn't love

59:00

it. I mean, I'd get it again just

59:02

to try it again, I guess, but you

59:04

know, whatever, but yeah, like it

59:06

was definitely, definitely not as

59:08

bad as stinky tofu in. Like

59:11

fermented stuff in general, it's

59:14

funny people, different people, like my wife

59:16

does not, is not a fermented food,

59:18

like a fermented food eater in general

59:20

and. Same, I hate fermented stuff. I

59:22

actually don't like kimchi, anything like that.

59:24

So I had a theory

59:27

that the reason why stinky tofu hit me

59:29

harder is because I just don't like fermented stuff.

59:33

And so like, I've asked random people around that

59:35

I know of like, hey, what do you think

59:37

of stinky tofu? Yes or no.

59:40

Then if it's no, then I'm like, hey,

59:42

do you actually like fermented stuff anyway? I

59:45

would say this theory is not, does not really hold water

59:47

cause most of the time it, yeah,

59:49

I haven't been able to see a trend, but

59:52

you know. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean,

59:54

keep, keep food scientists, let us know. Okay.

59:57

The last thing on our night market list you have

59:59

is. capsule toys? So

1:00:03

I will say this isn't just a

1:00:05

night market thing. This is literally like

1:00:07

everywhere across Taipei. You can't,

1:00:09

you literally can't throw a stone without

1:00:11

hitting multiple seven 11s or you know,

1:00:15

Mark other convenience stores

1:00:17

and almost all of them always have

1:00:19

some sort of capsule toy machines out

1:00:21

front. Are you talking about like the thing

1:00:23

that you put like 50 cents in and you turn the knob and

1:00:25

then a little plastic capsule of the toy and it falls out? Yes.

1:00:28

And it is, it

1:00:30

is highly addicting for me and I

1:00:32

have spent each trip probably around a

1:00:34

hundred dollars on

1:00:36

capsule toys. Oh my God. You can

1:00:38

play loot box games too. I know.

1:00:41

Well, Clash Royale still gets me. Uh,

1:00:44

yeah, the, like the,

1:00:46

the first time like I kept all of them in

1:00:48

their actual capsule because then I did like some videos

1:00:50

when I brought it back home and like open it

1:00:52

up with my wife. And so like

1:00:54

half my suitcase, if the TSA were to open

1:00:57

it up, they'd be like, uh, what

1:00:59

the hell is this? These are literally all just

1:01:02

capsules. What? This is weird. Shit

1:01:04

dude. Most 99% of them

1:01:06

are toys. One percent drugs. Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:08

Oh, you got to get through them to figure out which, but

1:01:11

yeah, no, it's, it's fun. Like it's always like, they're

1:01:13

just, they're just novelty and they're fun and

1:01:16

like I love cats and

1:01:18

a lot of times they're like weird cat

1:01:20

based like little figurines and I'm like, okay,

1:01:22

well that's a cat sitting on the toilet.

1:01:25

That's hilarious. That's pretty funny. To buy it.

1:01:27

Yeah. That's, and then I bring

1:01:29

it home and you know, sometimes I disclaim some

1:01:31

types of don't, you have a

1:01:33

shelf full of a cat sitting on toilets and

1:01:36

now you have to dust. So congratulations. Well, and

1:01:38

the, the trend I got this year was

1:01:40

capsule toys of

1:01:43

capsule toy machines. Oh

1:01:45

wow. That's a very meta. Yeah. Literal

1:01:47

machines that like our capsule toy machines

1:01:49

that have little capsule balls, you twist

1:01:51

a little thing and it pops out.

1:01:53

What's really? Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.

1:01:55

There's, and there's different kinds too. And

1:01:59

like we got capsule. toys of like

1:02:01

vending machines as well. And like literally

1:02:03

the vending machines have like sodas the

1:02:05

size of like super

1:02:08

tiny idea. Yeah. This

1:02:10

is a thing. My daughter got into this briefly because

1:02:12

she used it, um, when playing with

1:02:15

like dolls, but there's these things called

1:02:17

mini brands here. Oh my God. Yes.

1:02:19

Yeah. That are the same idea. Like

1:02:21

really small, like, yeah. I

1:02:23

wonder if I know this is not a video

1:02:25

podcast, but I'm showing you, uh, so

1:02:28

you're holding up two caps. What looks

1:02:30

like capsule machines. It's a lot on

1:02:32

your face. Pretty good. It's

1:02:34

okay. This white one is

1:02:36

a capsule, a machine. And yeah, you can

1:02:38

literally, uh, hit the button

1:02:41

and a little capsule pops out. That's amazing.

1:02:43

Yeah. It even, it goes in the drawer.

1:02:45

And then this one is a little vending

1:02:47

machine. It's like an orange vending machine that

1:02:49

has like little little drinks or jelly

1:02:51

drinks. You load the little, um, drink in the back, you hit the

1:02:56

button and then it, you, it comes out

1:02:58

of the bottom. That's amazing. It is so

1:03:00

tiny. I've actually lost one of them. Oh,

1:03:02

and I almost did it again. Well, that's

1:03:04

in the keys now. It's gone forever. Look

1:03:06

how tiny this is. It's like, it's smaller

1:03:08

than a pill dude, smaller than a pill.

1:03:10

Yeah. This is definitely not safe for, uh,

1:03:12

for children. Yeah. No, don't give kids. That's

1:03:14

amazing. That sounds really fun though. Uh,

1:03:17

too fun, too fun, too addicting. I yeah,

1:03:20

I love it. How do you curiosity how, like

1:03:23

those are fancy capsule toys when I

1:03:25

was a kid were like a thing of caps

1:03:27

or something. What, what, what is a capsule toy

1:03:29

machine costs? Uh,

1:03:32

so yeah, they're usually

1:03:34

either five, uh, 10 pieces

1:03:36

or two to three 50

1:03:39

cent pieces. Uh, which like,

1:03:41

uh, so the, the rough translation right

1:03:43

now is a hundred new

1:03:45

Taiwan dollars is three American

1:03:48

dollars. So, uh, you know,

1:03:50

if, if, so if you use two 50

1:03:52

cent pieces, it's like three bucks. A lot of

1:03:54

them, actually some of them even go up to

1:03:56

like five 50 cent pieces. Uh,

1:03:58

so that that's essentially. like you know you

1:04:01

just pop plopped I don't know I'm not good

1:04:03

at math that's like seven dollars on

1:04:05

one so if

1:04:07

I'm if I'm just

1:04:09

to have a point of comparison like what it was what is

1:04:12

it what is it like a lunch cost

1:04:14

at a fast fast lunch someplace cost

1:04:16

not at a convention center oh

1:04:19

like at in Taiwan yeah in

1:04:21

Taiwan that's the thing is that

1:04:24

dude like food there is dirt cheap you

1:04:26

can get like an amazing meal for like

1:04:28

nothing and it's hard for us

1:04:30

because we're in the bay and like you know

1:04:32

one sandwich can be like 20 bucks but they're

1:04:35

like the same sandwich is probably like 50 cents

1:04:37

it's maybe I'm exaggerating but it's like you can

1:04:39

get a lot of food real

1:04:41

cheap that's okay another reason why I like

1:04:43

Taiwan so okay well this all sounds good

1:04:45

um thank you thank you Adam so much

1:04:48

for coming by and and you

1:04:50

know sharing a little bit of what Computex

1:04:52

is like it sounds I've got to go sometimes it

1:04:54

sounds fun oh yeah you definitely

1:04:56

should yeah thanks for having me love love

1:04:58

uh hanging out I'm always honored to be

1:05:01

on the show I listen every week so

1:05:03

well thanks Adam and if people want to

1:05:05

find out more I think the PC world

1:05:07

YouTube channel will probably is the place to

1:05:09

go PC world YouTube channel

1:05:12

PC world.com and I have

1:05:14

started a PC world tick tock or

1:05:17

anybody inclined but you

1:05:19

know we're still experimenting over there

1:05:21

well and if you want a PC

1:05:23

focused PC enthusiast focused podcast every Tuesday

1:05:26

the full nerd more

1:05:28

or less every Tuesday the full nerd lands

1:05:30

over on YouTube and where podcasts are found

1:05:32

yeah the full nerd podcast and then will you're on

1:05:35

pretty often especially recently and

1:05:37

yeah we stream it live

1:05:39

on YouTube every Tuesday it's got its own YouTube

1:05:42

channel now youtube.com/hat

1:05:44

symbol the full

1:05:46

nerd podcast thank

1:05:48

you so much for coming by and we'll talk to you talk to you

1:05:50

soon damn good time be sure

1:05:52

to check out PC world for more great work

1:05:55

from Adam thanks as always for coming by and

1:05:58

that will do it for us. this

1:06:00

week. As always, Braden

1:06:02

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