0:00

Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a production

0:02

of Shondaland in partnership with iHeartRadio.

0:12

Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast,

0:14

your exclusive peak behind the curtain

0:16

of Shondaland's Bridgerton series.

0:19

I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins, bona

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Fide Pollen Stan and your

0:24

guide through Season three,

0:27

Part.

0:27

Two is here at long

0:30

last and Wow.

0:32

Today we're talking about the

0:34

show stopping opener to Part two.

0:37

If you haven't watched it yet, episode

0:39

five, or honestly, any of

0:42

Part two, go watch it right

0:44

now. It's out now on Netflix and

0:47

join us back here for all the juicy behind the

0:49

scenes insights. This

0:55

episode was a massive status

0:57

quo changer with some huge character

0:59

moment, so we're bringing back

1:01

the incredible showrunner Jess Brown now

1:04

to break it all down. Plus

1:06

we've got the brilliant actress Claudia

1:09

Jesse who plays the one and only

1:11

Eloise. Before

1:13

we hear from them, let's recap episode

1:15

five TikTok,

1:19

Penelope and Colin announced they're engaged

1:21

and all but Eloise Sharon mclee

1:24

alone. Eloise tells penn that

1:26

until Colin knows who she really is,

1:29

he cannot possibly love her, Penn

1:32

promises to come clean. Meanwhile,

1:34

Cresita's mother has arranged a marriage for her

1:37

with a man old enough to be her great

1:39

grandfather. She hatches an

1:41

escape plan that will shock the

1:43

ton. Our lovebirds

1:46

dash off to their future home, and

1:49

we have maybe our most beautiful

1:51

pollen moment yet. They

1:54

gaze into the mirror and Colin affirms

1:56

his love for his fiance, trying

1:58

to help Penn see her worth.

2:00

You are the cleverest,

2:03

bravest woman I've ever known. You

2:07

make me feel seen in ways I've never felt

2:09

seen before. And

2:11

then there's the way

2:14

you have cascades down your.

2:16

Shoulder, And

2:20

who can forget what happens next?

2:23

Colin disrobes his beloved

2:26

and they make love for the first time

2:28

on the chase lounge.

2:31

The next day, Penn's planned

2:33

to tell Colin she's Lady Whistledown

2:35

gets thwarted when the Queen announces

2:37

a hepty reward for whoever knows

2:39

the true identity of the gossip

2:42

monger. Kate

2:47

throws a smashing engagement party for the

2:50

happy couple, and Eloise

2:52

makes it clear she is not he had to

2:54

play games. She gives Penelope

2:56

an ultimatum tell

2:58

Colin the truth by midnight,

3:01

or she will. But

3:04

when the clock runs out, it's Cressida

3:07

who beats everyone to the punch with

3:09

her own announcement.

3:12

You would like to know who Lady Whistledown is? You

3:15

shall know. I

3:19

am she.

3:22

I have to say my jaw

3:25

dropped when I saw all of this play

3:27

out. The final scene at the party

3:29

is so tense, and the

3:32

huge part of that tension was Eloise.

3:34

Her arc makes strides

3:37

in this episode as she grapples with yet

3:39

another secret pen kept from her

3:42

and whether or not to reveal pen secret to her

3:44

brother. Hey,

3:50

Claudia, welcome back to the podcast.

3:54

I know feel very happy

3:57

to be back.

3:57

Well, what stuck out to you

4:00

most of your experience this time

4:02

around? Bringing us ellerwe

4:05

Is Bridgerton once again.

4:07

I think we've all been really looking

4:09

forward to the day that Luke

4:11

Newton and Nicola Coughlan

4:14

get to sort

4:16

of hold the torch for a

4:18

bit. It was just exciting. I think

4:20

that's that's what I think still stuck

4:22

with me, just the sense of pride.

4:25

Obviously we've known each other since yeah,

4:27

twenty nineteen, early twenty nineteen,

4:31

and they're like, we're family.

4:33

You know, because Nichola and Luke have both been in it

4:35

since day one.

4:36

It also is exciting to see all of you bring

4:39

that kind of family vibe to the screen. You can,

4:41

it feels so natural. Do

4:44

you think that Ellowee's

4:47

surprised you at all this

4:49

season? Like, was there anything about

4:51

her character, that character that surprised

4:54

you?

4:55

Yeah?

4:55

I mean when I first saw the scripts

4:57

and heard about, you know, the

5:00

fact that Eloise has made a new friend, and

5:03

that a friend is someone she said

5:05

she'd rather die than beer

5:08

around. There was a time

5:10

where she she would have chosen death,

5:13

and now she's like you know, Besie's

5:16

and then she's ended up having this really unlikely

5:19

friendship with someone. But

5:21

that's what I do love about Bridgin, And I think it's

5:23

clever because it shows another side to Cressida, and

5:26

you know, we're all capable of all sorts of things,

5:28

and you know, yeah, there's a there's been a spikiness

5:31

with with Cresida, but you sort

5:33

of come to understand where that's emerged

5:36

from. You know, I've spent this

5:38

time with Eloise unsubscribing

5:40

from the ettica, you know, I mean, unsubscribing

5:43

from the what's around and then now I've got

5:45

a sort of subscribe again.

5:48

Well I've never had never subscribed before, but I've

5:50

got kind of got to be in with it. But

5:52

I don't think Eloise is capable of doing it completely

5:55

like other young women that she sees

5:57

do with you know this like bizarre

5:59

rich. So yeah, Also that was fun for

6:01

me because I get to be at more of the balls,

6:04

which.

6:04

Is nice because I do enjoyed

6:06

it in them.

6:07

If you were at more of the balls, just type around.

6:09

I'm one of those people who love Eloise

6:12

and I feel sad for Eloise.

6:16

Do you feel like that's going to be the reaction

6:18

of most of the audience.

6:20

I think so, because I think even there was

6:22

a part of me that was like, oh,

6:26

oh gosh, Like I

6:28

think it's very clever. I

6:31

think people will be satisfied

6:34

with Eloise's story

6:36

throughout the entirety of season three.

6:38

I think they'll be very pleased with where

6:41

Eloise ends up. And

6:43

so I think Eloise is

6:46

always going to be Eloise, even if

6:49

you put her, if

6:51

you try and fit her in a different box.

6:54

So I think I think the audience will feel content

6:57

that They'll feel maybe unnerved, but content that

6:59

Eloisa is who she is. She's still rolling her eyes,

7:01

she's still annoyed, She's still yeah

7:04

funny, she certainly is.

7:06

Let's talk about episode five. The episode

7:09

starts with the revelation, and that's

7:11

that Penelope and Colin are

7:14

engaged. It's kind of like a whirlwind.

7:17

What we see is Penelope is almost

7:19

in like a dream state of like disbelief

7:21

and being. Announcement is made and

7:24

everyone's happy embracing

7:26

the happy couple, except

7:29

for Eloise. She's not

7:31

happy about it. She storms off and

7:34

she even tells Penelope to tell

7:36

Colin about her identity as Lady

7:38

Whistledownluise.

7:40

Does he know?

7:42

But you always wi not know?

7:44

Please Louise, please do not tell

7:46

him. Colin is not like Lord Depling.

7:48

He will be gone for years at a time.

7:50

He will find out and until

7:52

he knows.

7:53

The real you, he cannot

7:55

possibly love you.

7:57

I would love if you

7:59

could to tell us how

8:02

you interpreted that whole scene.

8:05

Why I And I also just

8:07

I just need to understand

8:09

why Elouise reacted like that. I don't

8:12

understand.

8:13

Really, did you think she should embrace her?

8:15

Well?

8:15

I be like I think

8:17

that I still haven't gotten

8:20

over understanding

8:22

how a lifelong friendship

8:25

could begin to dissolve or

8:27

be suspended over

8:30

the revelation that Penelope has

8:32

whistledown. I can't get

8:34

over that part. Oh wow,

8:37

and that's perspective.

8:39

I lost it.

8:39

I don't get it.

8:40

I think, okay,

8:43

I'm almost going to do this in

8:45

an answer to try and get you

8:47

to maybe see to understand. I

8:50

think she's humiliated.

8:54

I think it's more she's deeply,

8:57

deeply embarrassed. We've watched Ellowise

8:59

for two seasons try to uncover

9:02

who Lady Whistledown is, and Lady

9:05

Whistledown has been watching her do it trying

9:07

to stop her. That's really embarrassing,

9:11

really embarrassing. She's been in accasions with the Queen.

9:15

That's big deal. And it would be over here if

9:17

we'd be massive if I was

9:19

then with the king, because I was in

9:21

trouble.

9:22

Big deal.

9:24

She's written about her brother, more

9:26

than one brother. She's written about Eloise.

9:29

She outed her for hanging around with like a

9:32

lower class printer boy.

9:35

And now without

9:37

any knowledge before she's

9:39

walked in engaged

9:42

to her brother that

9:44

she has been writing about, and

9:46

Eloise hasn't been told anything, and

9:49

her brother still doesn't know, and her brother

9:51

wants to like end Lady Whistledown

9:53

as well, because he's still furious about what

9:56

happened with Lady

9:58

Crane and what happened

10:00

with Eloise and about what you know, he's

10:02

still furious about.

10:03

That he wants.

10:04

So I think she's infuriated

10:08

that her friend. I think she's humiliated

10:10

and she's flabbergasted

10:13

that her former best friend can

10:15

walk in and just be like, we're

10:17

just getting engaged.

10:18

Okay,

10:21

so who are you?

10:23

You're like, who are you? I thought I know you, I

10:25

do not know you.

10:26

Yeah, So the stuff with the brother,

10:29

I understand that, because even that, I understand how that

10:31

can feel like all right, like the

10:33

Whistledown stuff. Sure, but you can't just get mad because

10:37

you know you were too blind to see that your best

10:39

friend was in love with your brother, Because that's Eloise

10:41

is bad.

10:42

Anyone would have been able to know.

10:44

Like, So I do get

10:46

that, But I think Eloise

10:48

is almost using you know, when you

10:51

I don't know, if you're frustrated about something,

10:54

you you should maybe pick on a

10:56

smaller thing to embolden you. I

10:58

think she's sort of using that now

11:01

as a thing being like, and now you're

11:04

going to be having a jolly

11:06

old time with mubbig bro. Also,

11:08

it's her first time to really explode

11:11

for the whole of the summer that

11:14

they've not spoken to each other. And

11:16

and Eloise is probably

11:19

being a little bit stubborn. But I love that you're

11:21

just like, no, deal with it, this is

11:23

fine.

11:24

I can I can see. I guess I'm also

11:26

just like Elie. I mean, I guess you

11:28

know what, you know, You're right, You're right. I guess I

11:31

was also just thinking of it as like Eloise

11:35

could have been like, yes, girl,

11:37

you make that money, tell

11:40

these stories. Let me give

11:42

you some other hat tips to include good,

11:45

but there is that embarrassment and

11:48

I you're right.

11:49

You're right, But I think you're right, though

11:51

there is an another world where

11:53

absolutely your version is correct, where

11:56

Eloise would have been like Wow, she

11:58

would have been so happy about it.

12:00

She was so infatuated with Lady whistled

12:02

out.

12:02

She was in love, totally in love.

12:04

And I think if

12:06

Penelope hadn't written about

12:09

Eloise and tried to manipulate

12:12

Eloise into stopping everything with the printer

12:14

boy, Eloise would have been happy

12:17

for Penelope.

12:18

Forget about the printed boy party. It's

12:23

a thorn in mass hat.

12:26

We'll be right back after the break.

12:32

We're back with more bridgeton the official podcast.

12:38

You are going toe to toe

12:40

with your good friend in real

12:43

life. What was it like for you and Nicola

12:45

to work on those really emotionally

12:48

tough scenes.

12:49

Mostly it just felt unusual because

12:52

seasons one and two, all

12:54

of our scenes were basically together, Like the eight

12:56

percent of our scenes are always together. We're always

12:58

together, always together. I'm always yanking her out

13:00

of rooms. It seems that I'm just always

13:03

pulling her out of rooms. And

13:06

so what felt that

13:08

most odd is that we just

13:12

weren't together. So actually we probably

13:15

just enjoyed the chance to be together in a

13:17

scene, even if it was me being like you're with But

13:21

yeah, it mostly felt odd that we were just we

13:23

were spending so much time apart on set.

13:25

I want to know what you think about

13:28

Eloise trying to give

13:31

Penelope and the ultimate I'm

13:34

if.

13:34

It proves too difficult for you to reveal the truth,

13:36

I will be merciful and ability myself.

13:40

You haven't till midnight. I

13:43

guess it is.

13:43

It is Penelope's responsibility. It's

13:45

not Eloise's eloisas it's heartbroken.

13:48

She doesn't, she's upset about it.

13:50

I do love that though, because also as

13:52

an actor, it's always fun to be like, you have until

13:55

midnight, Like you want to say lines

13:57

like that. That's slight proper like movie

14:00

stuff, isn't it. You've got un til mid my mate.

14:04

So that's always fun as an actor to be able to say

14:06

that. I like the mix up of

14:08

it all. Firstly, like from a TV perspective,

14:10

there's nothing more fun than the audience

14:13

knowing something that none of the characters know.

14:15

That's always the best place to be. It's

14:18

always the most fun because then you're like, why

14:20

can't you just say it? And

14:22

then next to that was the

14:24

only other thing that's fun after that is being

14:26

alongside one character who knows. So

14:29

everybody knows Elouise knows. So there's this amazing,

14:32

beautiful tension of like when

14:36

is it going to be revealed?

14:37

You know?

14:38

But I think Elowise is actually I think she's doing the right thing

14:40

to be like Colin needs

14:42

to know, it's going to find out at some.

14:44

Point, doesn't need to know?

14:46

Do you don't think he does? You're like, get

14:48

married then tell.

14:49

N get married, have

14:52

some blise and then one

14:55

day over tea by the way,

14:57

I think, yeah, I think I was definitely

15:00

the part of the audience that was like, just let

15:02

this be what it is right now and

15:04

we will figure it out. I was genuinely

15:08

happy that it was happening

15:10

for them, for the for color a Penelope.

15:12

Yeah, I think Eloise is like just seriously.

15:18

So so upset or

15:21

the world's greatest cock block.

15:23

That's what I'm saying. And I was wondering,

15:26

that's what you think. But

15:29

I'm like, Eloise, sit down, just

15:32

shut up. Bringing

15:35

it back to so

15:37

okay, to the chart scene, which is

15:40

clever. It's symbolic, and

15:42

Eloise and Penelope are almost

15:44

sparring.

15:46

My first is a contraction for society.

15:49

My second notes are recluse. My

15:51

third forms a part.

15:52

Of the here.

15:53

My whole is but a quibbled something none,

15:56

yes, no work.

16:00

Is it not a

16:02

conundrum?

16:05

First?

16:05

I would venture four, My second

16:07

I would venture in. My whole

16:10

is more talked of than practice dwelling.

16:12

Perhaps no venture

16:14

four?

16:15

Venture in It is friendship,

16:17

is it not?

16:19

Yes?

16:22

Just participating games.

16:24

There is a history between these two.

16:26

Perhaps it will finally be settled.

16:29

It's not the same as how

16:31

we think of charades today now, it's

16:34

not at all. I

16:36

was a little lost the first or yes,

16:38

so away, so away

16:41

babe, we were what is this? So

16:43

you you all didn't really know about this

16:45

this former form of charades

16:48

while you were reading the script?

16:50

Did you all have to like learn it?

16:52

Was it fun? Like? Did you

16:54

try to do your own actual version of

16:56

charades like that?

16:58

As?

16:58

Absolutely not.

17:00

It's so riddle heavy, isn't it.

17:02

It's so riddle heavy

17:06

because I remember there being like my half is this,

17:08

my half is this, and my whole is this?

17:10

Like it's things like that, wasn't it.

17:11

It's like if my blah blah is this, then my blah

17:14

And we did have a lot of fun because

17:16

also anytime where there's loads of us

17:18

together, we're all like rattling, we're so

17:21

like buzzing, and like we're

17:23

knackered by the records to

17:25

midday, we're like so tired because we're.

17:27

Just all the energy.

17:28

We're like I loved

17:30

doing that scene. I loved it so much. I

17:32

thought it was so funny. All of us were

17:34

giggling loads. Also, Johnny's

17:37

in there. Anthony Bridgeton he's

17:39

there, isn't he? Because I remember me and him

17:41

laughing a lot together. And also I do

17:43

love the borderline

17:47

sitcom way that it's been

17:49

structured between Penelope and Ellowise in this

17:51

thing. It's so also like

17:53

I'm the first and foremost comedian,

17:55

like my heart is comedy.

17:57

Like that is where I.

17:59

Sit most comfortable, and

18:02

stuff like that. For me, it's like, I

18:05

love.

18:05

It so much.

18:06

Again, it sort of takes a pinch pinch

18:09

of the fury out of it a bit as

18:12

well, because it's so funny, which I enjoy.

18:14

I love it. I loved filming those scenes.

18:17

We were crying with laughter a

18:19

lot of it.

18:20

Were there any other moments for you

18:22

that were comical

18:24

that you really I mean you said, it's been a while

18:26

now, but any of that stand out

18:28

for you.

18:30

One of my favorite things I've seen so far it

18:32

must be episode three with a balloon.

18:35

There's this sort of mad like quartet

18:39

of the law and then the three

18:41

girls, and then when Eloisa like that,

18:43

you know, the great orc does not fly like

18:45

all of that sort of stuff.

18:46

I love all of that, love that love

18:49

anything comedy wise.

18:51

There's also at the end of episode one, I

18:54

was really pleased because this year I got this season,

18:56

I got to do a lot with loop Nuts, which

18:59

beautiful because sometimes a lot of the time,

19:01

because there's so many of us, there's

19:04

times where you'll be like, I don't think I've.

19:05

Ever spoken to this sibling.

19:07

Like in a scene you realize you're like, no,

19:09

I've never spoken to Johnny.

19:11

But like, it was.

19:12

Really nice for me and lout Newton

19:14

to get so much to do together. And right

19:17

at the end of episode one, elouis

19:20

just reading Lady Whistledown and then she's

19:22

like.

19:22

Brother would have been and he said, no, what you're reading

19:24

nothing?

19:25

I love that's that's like yummy

19:27

comedy, just cute, light tickley,

19:31

sort of funny.

19:32

I love it. I love that this. I love that Bridgeton's

19:34

so funny.

19:35

The way the Bridgerton's siblings are so like

19:38

like right on top of each other with the

19:40

lines. I'm like, are you

19:42

rehearsing it like that? It

19:44

has? Is that time rehearsing

19:47

it going over it that brings

19:50

that really natural sibling

19:52

like banter to the forefront

19:55

or like by at this point, is it just

19:57

kind of like in you all

20:00

just that this is what it is. It's so I just

20:02

I just love how quick it is.

20:05

That's Shonderland, thank you, that's shonder

20:07

that's that is fully shonder because

20:10

I think a lot of British produced

20:14

period pieces are a lot of pauses

20:17

here and they're

20:20

sort of stuff.

20:21

And I can get it can get a bit dry, can't

20:23

it. Let's dry, so I do.

20:25

I loved that it was sort of this like madly

20:28

just brilliantly paced period

20:31

piece that's so clever. Luckily,

20:35

I decided that I wanted Eloise to

20:37

speak at the sound of light. I

20:41

just wanted her to speak fast, move

20:44

like, move like you know, limmy, be

20:46

quite limmy, and I wanted

20:48

all of those things that it's great, it's great, it works.

20:51

But don't get me wrong.

20:52

When we come back to work, there's like a week

20:55

where we've got to feel like we're putting in new teeth

20:57

and we're like getting back into the language of it.

21:00

So that's fine, that's fun because we

21:02

we'll get there.

21:03

It will take us a couple of days something like that.

21:05

But I think in terms of the Bridgetons being together,

21:08

we do have like a

21:11

performative shorthand

21:13

with each other now, like we're very comfortable

21:15

around each other. We love each other

21:17

a great deal. Like the Bridgeton

21:20

family are very very close. It's

21:23

beautiful being on set with them.

21:25

Quadia, Jesse May, I

21:27

love speaking to you.

21:28

I love speaking with you.

21:30

Lovely.

21:34

We'll be back after the break to sit down

21:36

with showrunner Jess Brownew to

21:38

talk about some of the jar dropping twists

21:40

from this episode.

21:46

Welcome back, Okay. So

21:49

many new threads are introduced in this episode,

21:52

Penn and Colin's intimacy, Eloise's

21:55

ultimatum, Cressida's

21:57

bombshell lie so

22:00

to tease some of these apart, I

22:02

chatted with showrunner Jess Brownew.

22:04

We talked about the character beats at episode

22:07

five and the decision to change

22:09

some details from the original

22:11

source material. Jess,

22:16

welcome back once again.

22:18

Thank you, glad to be here.

22:21

We need to get into episode five. I feel

22:24

though the way it shot is

22:26

so is so spot

22:28

on with how I personally

22:30

felt. I was just like, what is

22:33

happening? The move the room

22:35

is moving. I think I was still still

22:38

yelling. I

22:41

mean I was actually yelling at the end

22:43

of episode four, like what

22:46

so

22:48

it was gone?

22:52

So episode five I

22:54

am. I feel like I'm in the same headspace

22:56

with Penelope. The secrecy

22:59

and the tension between Netlpe, Eloise,

23:01

and Colin also reaches

23:05

its height this episode.

23:08

We see in the first few moments everyone's

23:10

embracing Penelope. They're so happy about

23:13

this engagement announcement, but Eloise

23:16

is not storms off. Why

23:18

was that moment the moment for

23:21

Eloise to stop our feet and

23:23

walk away?

23:24

So, first of all, I just want to say what you're

23:26

talking about of like feeling

23:28

like you're in the room and your head is spinning

23:30

the way it's shot, that was very much

23:33

something we baked into the script to the writing

23:35

like it was described. I think as you

23:38

know, feeling like it's a dream,

23:40

feeling like you're on a boat, feeling like you're

23:42

underwater. Azy a squire who

23:45

wrote this episode did a fantastic job.

23:47

And you know, it

23:50

is also that feeling of Wow,

23:52

what a dream. And then you wake up and

23:54

there's that record scratch moment

23:57

where suddenly, oh, yeah, there's

23:59

Eloise and oh yeah, she

24:02

doesn't know that we have been

24:04

secretly having a crush on each other and

24:07

that's my sister Slash, that's my best

24:09

friend.

24:10

Oh that's awkward.

24:12

And so I think it was important for us

24:14

to set up that tension at the

24:16

very top of the episode, because

24:19

that is really the tension that's going to take us through

24:21

the back half of the season. It's

24:24

narratively something that was useful

24:26

for us. Having this secret

24:29

of Whistledown hanging over our main

24:31

couple in many ways

24:33

allows us to enjoy the

24:36

romance between Colin and Penelope

24:38

without having to create extraneous

24:41

drama directly between the two of them.

24:44

There's this whole other thing, this freight

24:46

train that we know is on a collision

24:48

course with their coupling. So

24:51

that's something we're speeding towards as

24:53

we head on for the finale.

24:56

I spoke with Claudia and

24:59

she very much loved being able

25:01

to sink her teeth into

25:03

all of that. Jess,

25:06

did you have an opportunity to talk with Claudia

25:09

about what was going on and tell

25:11

me about that.

25:12

Yeah, I mean Claudia is

25:15

such a fantastic person

25:18

an actor and always

25:20

game for anything, truly. She loves

25:23

playing Eloise and she

25:25

loves Bridgerton, and I

25:27

think she was really excited to

25:30

portray Eloise in a new light, you

25:33

know, starting with the first part of

25:35

the season, getting to

25:38

pair up with Cressida, which is just a totally

25:40

different vibe for the character, and

25:42

then going head to head with

25:45

Penelope was also, I think

25:47

an exciting challenge. I think it was difficult

25:49

for the two of them because Nikola

25:52

and Claudia like each other so much,

25:55

so to play it was funny. They would be on

25:58

set playing all this drama and

26:00

angst and then you know, the director

26:02

would yell cut and they go, oh, I'm so sorry,

26:05

give each other a big hug.

26:07

I'm not really mad at you. So

26:10

she was game, she.

26:11

Was game, but but yeah, it was a bit of a

26:13

funny transition.

26:15

Claudia loved the idea of the

26:18

countdown to midnight. This episode

26:21

is beautifully titled TikTok.

26:23

Right, everyone is like

26:25

like the app I'm like, no, Like, remember

26:27

clocks Before we had

26:30

digital clocks, there.

26:31

Were hands short

26:33

songs.

26:34

Yeah. I know most of us kind

26:36

of including myself, don't really know how to read

26:38

those anymore. But yeah,

26:41

yeah, I mean, I will say there was an earlier

26:44

version of Eloise this season, just

26:46

I think when we were breaking the very first

26:48

episode, a version of Eloise

26:50

who was a lot more antagonistic

26:52

towards Penelope, who was just

26:55

straight up, like getting

26:57

in her business, like really

27:00

at her and kind of coming for

27:02

her. And ultimately, when

27:04

we it only was in a draft

27:06

of an outline, but we

27:09

decided internally that it just didn't

27:11

feel like the show and it didn't

27:13

feel like Eloise. And

27:16

so I actually think Eloise has

27:18

been pretty chill this

27:21

season, considering what

27:24

Penelope wrote about her last

27:26

year, like, you know, if

27:28

I were Eloise, if I

27:31

were that age and you know my best friend

27:33

had screwed me over in that way and written

27:35

about me, I might be more

27:37

upset. And I think that Eloise

27:40

has, other than going off and palaying around

27:42

with Cressida in the first half of the season, she's

27:45

pretty much stayed out of Penelope's

27:47

way and let her do her thing. You know, she hasn't

27:49

tried to tell her secret to anyone,

27:52

and so I think Eloise is probably feeling

27:54

like geez, like I gave you

27:57

this bandwidth and I let

27:59

you do your thing. You know, I gave you, I showed

28:01

you grace, and now

28:04

you snuck around behind my back and are getting

28:06

together with my brother under false pretenses.

28:10

And she gives her.

28:11

The opportunity early in the episode

28:13

to be like I'm going to let you tell him on

28:15

your own terms, which Penelope

28:17

requests. And then

28:19

when Penelope doesn't do it, Yeah,

28:22

it's her engagement party. It's not that nice, but

28:25

I get it, you know. I think internally

28:28

we all felt like it made sense for her

28:30

to come for Penelope

28:33

at that moment, and you know, it was a great

28:35

setting for it too. Engagement party

28:38

charades all.

28:39

I loved the charades, Jess. That was

28:42

so fun, so witty.

28:44

The charades came from Asia,

28:47

who wrote this episode, and our

28:49

first week of the room, we always

28:51

spend that first week blue skying.

28:54

Each writer gets.

28:55

You know, a presentation time to

28:58

talk about what set piece is

29:00

do you want to see this season? You

29:02

know, what characters are you most excited

29:04

about, what dynamic

29:07

do you want to see more of or less of?

29:10

Anything?

29:10

And something that Asya brought up on

29:13

like day one or two was that she really

29:15

thought it'd be fun to do a game night. I

29:17

think she's someone like many of us who

29:19

has game nights. She's like Regency game Night,

29:21

Let's do it. And we kept looking

29:23

for moments to do it. And then when we got

29:26

to this episode and there

29:28

was all this tension simmering between

29:30

Penelope and Eloise.

29:32

We were like, oh damn, this is the.

29:34

Moment because these two going head

29:36

to head on like a thinky game

29:38

like regency charades, which is a

29:40

little different from contemporary charades.

29:43

We kind of had to like explain it in.

29:45

The show because I knew people would be like, well, but

29:47

it's a great moment, I think, to underscore

29:50

their connection, but also the

29:53

competition and tension that's going on between

29:55

them.

29:55

And then of course we have the Queen and

29:58

Lady Danbury take a.

29:59

Seat and enjoy this

30:01

momentous day with me.

30:03

What is it that we are celebrating

30:06

the demise of Lady whistle doown?

30:09

She's undefended. Now

30:12

is the time to strike?

30:15

And what is your plan? Your

30:17

majesty, it is already done.

30:20

If there was one thing you

30:22

could really just pick

30:24

out from that moment between

30:26

the two of them, what do

30:29

we as viewers learn about

30:32

their about their relationship and what

30:35

they're like plotting to do their

30:37

dynamic altogether?

30:39

Yeah, well, I think having

30:41

Queen Charlotte the spinoff series

30:44

gave me a lot to work with, which

30:47

I'm really grateful to Shonda for she

30:49

created this incredibly rich backstory

30:52

for the Queen and Lady dan Barry,

30:55

and knowing that they go as

30:57

far back as they do now and

30:59

that I have this almost family

31:01

relationship, it

31:04

got a lot.

31:04

More interesting to write that connection this

31:07

year.

31:08

I think Lady dan Barry knows the

31:10

Queen better than

31:12

she knows herself in certain ways. And

31:15

there's that moment in the chess game where

31:18

Dan Barry makes the point that

31:21

why put an end to the game

31:24

when you can keep playing? And I think

31:26

she knows that for the Queen. Even though

31:28

the Queen makes a lot of noise about

31:31

hating whistle Down and that

31:34

whistle Bottom lady, why is she always getting in

31:36

my business? Et cetera, she knows

31:38

that this is entertainment for her and

31:41

that it brings her a certain amount of joy.

31:44

She also knows that

31:46

the Queen.

31:48

I think Dan Barry is maybe starting

31:50

to suspect who whistled

31:52

Down is. I don't think she knows it's Penelope,

31:55

but I think she's a smart

31:57

cookie, and I think she realizes it's

31:59

probably a debutante who

32:01

is clutching at

32:03

a little slice of power, because

32:07

she herself knew what it was like to

32:09

be powerless as a debutante and

32:11

to be voiceless as a debutante,

32:13

as a married young woman, et cetera. And

32:16

because she knows that that's probably

32:19

the case, I think she's starting to

32:21

want to convince the Queen to give

32:23

this writer some grace.

32:25

So in episode five we

32:27

also get a huge scene for fans

32:30

of the book and just

32:32

a really great pollen moment

32:35

overall. Can you break down the mirror

32:37

scene for us and how did

32:39

you approach it?

32:40

So the mirror scene in

32:43

episode five is really pure

32:46

fan service because

32:49

the truth of the matter is that the mirror

32:51

scene does not exist in the books.

32:54

The mirror scene is

32:56

referenced in the books. It's basically

32:59

calling saying, boy,

33:02

wouldn't I love to do something very sexy

33:04

x y Z with you in the mirror

33:07

and she's titilated by the idea

33:09

and then it never happens. They never get

33:11

to it. But the fans have

33:14

run with this and have gone,

33:17

gosh, that mirror scene, that'd be fun

33:19

to see. And we were aware

33:21

that there was that excitement around the

33:23

scene and wanted to create

33:26

it in our reality.

33:27

So that you know it could come true.

33:29

It is a little bit well, it's obviously

33:31

different because it's not real in the book, but

33:34

we wanted to honor some

33:37

of the some

33:39

of the suggestions that are made in

33:41

the book, which I'm going to leave people to look

33:43

up themselves, but some of the sexy suggestions

33:47

Colin makes in the in the book scene,

33:49

we wanted to see some of that happen.

33:52

But also mirrors became

33:54

a central motif for us this

33:57

season. It may have started

33:59

with, oh yeah, let's do the mirror scene, but

34:01

in talking about it in the room, we

34:04

realized that a mirror is a perfect

34:06

metaphor for a lot of what we're

34:08

talking about this year, which is two

34:10

selves. There's the self you show

34:13

to the world, aka the self

34:15

that you see in the mirror, which is your

34:17

outer self, your persona, and then

34:20

there is the private self, who is

34:22

the person standing on the other side of the

34:24

mirror who might be very different

34:26

from the person in the mirror. So Penelope

34:29

presents one side to the world

34:31

and then she's a totally other person on

34:34

the inside, as is Colin, and

34:36

both of them are having to figure out

34:38

this season how to merge the

34:41

mirror self with the

34:43

real self, and so you'll

34:45

see mirrors actually spotting up all

34:48

over the season in

34:51

almost every episode, there's.

34:52

Something mirrory, mirrory.

34:55

I've never said the word mirror. So many

34:58

mirror So yeah.

35:00

It's become pretty key

35:03

to the season in a lot of ways, and it's why

35:05

we've used the mirror motif

35:07

in the marketing campaign

35:10

for the season. It's not just about the

35:12

sexy moment, it's about the bigger

35:14

theme that we're using there.

35:16

That's amazing, That

35:19

is amazing. Okay,

35:21

what movements, emotions, or other factors

35:24

were you taking into consideration when

35:26

figuring out how to convey

35:28

Penelope and Collin's emotional

35:32

connection is heating up?

35:35

I mean, I think for us, we

35:37

talk a lot about how important storytelling

35:40

is in the intimacy scenes. You know, we

35:43

want we're always mindful of

35:46

starting from a place of story so that

35:48

we don't get into the zone of it

35:51

being gratuitous. I mean, it's

35:53

a sexy show, of course, but we want to ground

35:55

the intimate scenes in character

35:58

development. And so with Helbie,

36:00

for example, you see

36:03

you know, Colin facing her towards

36:06

the mirror, which obviously metaphorically

36:08

and literally is about her facing

36:10

herself, and he's talking

36:12

to her about you know, what

36:14

he sees and how he wants her to

36:16

see all these things about herself as

36:19

well, her beauty, her kindness,

36:21

you know, her cleverness, all the things

36:23

he loves about her. And there's

36:26

this moment where he undresses her, which

36:29

metaphorically, of course, being naked

36:32

is representative of

36:34

being vulnerable, being raw. And

36:36

at first, when she's nude in front

36:39

of him, she's covering herself up, which

36:41

is very much the way she operates in the world.

36:43

She hides.

36:45

And then as they begin

36:47

to make love, you know, Colin is

36:49

encouraging her by you

36:52

know, helping her to understand how

36:54

beautiful of a person she is, and she's

36:57

able to uncover herself

37:00

and show herself to him. And in

37:02

fact, she really takes a lot of agency

37:04

in that scene by saying, teach

37:07

me, tell me what to do, like I want to do stuff.

37:10

You know, she doesn't want to be a passive pillow

37:12

princess. She wants to be an active

37:15

participant in this

37:17

moment. And I think that's big for

37:19

Penelope to be brave enough

37:22

to say no, like give me, give

37:24

me a hand in what's going on here, and

37:26

Colin allows that and then kind

37:28

of meets her halfway. And

37:31

I would say the most important moment of

37:33

the scene to me is

37:35

the laughter that follows it.

37:38

We haven't had that in any of

37:40

our intimacy scenes in this show.

37:42

You know, Daphne and Simon and

37:44

Kate and Anthony. Daphnie and Simon

37:47

were you know, friend lee, but

37:49

they didn't have that depth of knowing each

37:51

other before they got together. It was more about

37:54

torture and burning for each other.

37:56

And then with Kate and Anthony it was

37:59

all longing and torture,

38:01

more torture, and with these two they just

38:04

love each other deeply in a friendship

38:06

way and now you know more and

38:08

more in a romantic way. And

38:10

so getting to see that comfort

38:14

to the point where they can laugh after

38:16

the sex and smile and be giddy.

38:19

I think I really loved getting portray

38:21

that, getting to portray that on screen because

38:26

I wish that for people

38:28

that they get to have sex like that,

38:30

that you know, sex gets to be

38:33

happy and joyful and not all torture.

38:35

So I wonder how many people

38:37

are going to put full length mirrors in

38:39

their shopping cards after.

38:42

I say it, get it, Yes, I

38:45

want that for people.

38:46

If mirror sales go through the roof,

38:48

then I'm gonna feel really

38:51

great, see

38:54

your beauty, step into your light, look

38:58

at yourself in the mirror.

39:00

For real. I love that so

39:02

so much. I

39:04

want to talk more about Cressida because

39:08

I think that is a very interesting

39:10

character. Cressida has

39:12

this moment at the end of the episode

39:14

where she announces that

39:17

she is Lady Whistledown. It

39:19

kind of shifts everything

39:22

moving forward. I mean, Penelope

39:25

faints. That

39:28

was wild. I'm also wondering if at any

39:30

point you all just were thinking,

39:32

like, who else could it be other

39:34

than Cressida, Like was that a discussion

39:37

or was it always just going to be Cressida to be like

39:39

it's me, y'all.

39:41

So the Cressida plot

39:43

twist is straight out of the book.

39:45

That is a Julia Quinn moment.

39:48

And you know, we shifted the

39:50

plot around a bit

39:52

this season, but all of the elements

39:55

are really still there. They're just not in

39:57

the same order and they don't necessarily

40:00

involve the exact same lineup

40:02

of people. But that was a moment from

40:04

the book that I thought played

40:07

really, really well. And you

40:09

know, we've there's been this dynamic between

40:12

Penelope and Cressida for two seasons.

40:14

We've watched her be Penelope's

40:16

mean girl. She's always been a

40:19

part of Penelope's story and

40:21

it felt right to bring.

40:23

That to a head.

40:24

That was so great, specifically because

40:27

Penelope passes out. It

40:29

was just like the wind

40:31

got knocked out of her.

40:33

Yeah.

40:34

I'll also say Cressida was

40:37

a really exciting character in general to write

40:39

this season. I love a good

40:41

mean girl, but more than

40:43

that, I love understanding why

40:46

a mean girl is a mean girl. And

40:48

I feel like mean girls are not

40:50

born, they're made, and so getting

40:53

to understand why Cressida

40:55

is the way she is, seeing

40:57

what's going on behind the scenes with her mom

41:00

and her dad and her family

41:02

life, which is so in opposition to

41:04

the Bridgertons or even the Featheringtons,

41:07

which.

41:08

To turn no more than one ball per month,

41:10

and only if her sort of strong moral

41:12

character I certainly

41:15

do not believe in music and

41:17

modern not nowadays is absolutely scandalous.

41:21

That sounds delightful, do

41:25

you not agree, Cressida? And

41:28

also understanding that Cressida, she's

41:32

thought of herself as a queen Bee

41:34

for a little while now, but

41:36

she's in her third season out and

41:39

like Penelope, she's starting

41:41

to tiptoe towards spinsterhood, so

41:43

she's starting to think of herself in

41:46

a very different way that allows

41:49

some room for reflection and

41:52

maturation and growth. So

41:54

I'm excited that people are getting to see

41:57

new layers to Cressida this year, Yeah.

42:00

For sure. And just

42:03

Cresita being set up by her parents to marry

42:06

someone twice her age, and some

42:09

of the visuals that we just see around Cressida

42:11

and her home life too, really

42:13

do teach us about why she

42:16

is the way she is. Her circumstances

42:18

really do paint a picture for us.

42:21

Yeah. That set design Alison

42:23

Garshore did on Cresita's

42:26

home I thought was so genius.

42:28

We thought of it from the beginning as the

42:31

anti Bridgerton House.

42:32

So if Bridgerton.

42:33

House is light and bright and

42:36

the curtains are drawn open, you know,

42:38

Cressida the Cowper House is dark.

42:41

And Alison actually

42:43

designed the room so that it was

42:45

sort of coffin, like like really

42:48

tall and narrow, instead

42:50

of being shorter and wider, which

42:53

is more cozy and comforting. So

42:55

when you step into that set in person, you

42:58

can feel like a sense of forebot. It

43:00

was really geniusly designed.

43:03

Could you describe

43:05

before we wrap a little bit of

43:08

what the mindset now between

43:11

Colin and Penelope is moving

43:13

forward with kind of

43:15

this. Just before midnight, Cressida

43:18

announces she's Lady whistled Down, and

43:20

I mean, yeah, like, what where

43:22

are they now?

43:24

So Penelope obviously

43:27

is freaking out because

43:30

this is her life's work and

43:32

even though it's brought

43:34

her a lot of strife and anxiety

43:37

via her relationship with Colin

43:40

and Eloise. I think

43:42

in the moment that Cressida says

43:44

I am Lady Whistledowns,

43:47

it's difficult for her because

43:50

it should be on her terms. Who says

43:53

who's whistledown and if it's her or if

43:55

it's not her, if it's someone else.

43:57

So she's really torn.

43:59

I think thatween her love for Colin

44:01

and her love for her alter ego.

44:04

And then on Collin's side of things,

44:08

he doesn't really know what's going on, but

44:10

he knows something is up

44:12

with Penelope, and he's

44:15

not sure if it's a problem

44:18

with him because obviously he doesn't know

44:20

that there's something.

44:21

Else going on.

44:22

So I think sending us forward into

44:24

the back half is this sense of insecurity

44:27

in Colin and uncertainty about

44:30

how penn feels about him, so that's

44:32

something that he will be

44:35

searching for some validation around going

44:38

forward.

44:38

Jess I love talking with you. Thank

44:41

you so much for joining us again.

44:44

So fun to be back.

44:50

Thank you for joining us on this deep dive

44:52

into the world of Bridgerton. Next

44:56

week, I'm sitting down with the Sleeve

44:58

Queen herself, Jessica Ma Katson

45:00

who plays Cressida, as well as

45:02

Polly Walker who plays Lady Featherington.

45:05

Two characters with a

45:08

lot of secrets and drama

45:10

going into part two. Stay

45:12

tuned Bridgerton.

45:19

The official podcast is produced by Shondaland

45:21

Audio and Wonder Media Network.

45:24

This show is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,

45:26

Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Jenny

45:29

Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our

45:31

producers are Sarah Schleid, Edie Allard,

45:34

and Carmen Borca Carrio. This episode

45:36

is edited by Jenny Kaplan and Emily

45:39

Rudder. Our associate producers

45:41

are Lauren Williams and Akia mcnight

45:44

and I am your host, Gabrielle Collins.

45:47

If you're enjoying this show, please

45:49

subscribe, share with your friends, rate

45:52

or leave us a review, and if you

45:54

haven't finished binging, Bridgerton on

45:56

Netflix. Please go do that so

45:59

you can enjoy all the juicy spoilers

46:01

with us. For more podcasts

46:04

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