0:15

Pushkin Raised,

0:20

an English pop singer songwriter whose debut

0:22

album My twenty first Century Blues snagged

0:25

Album of the Year at this year's BRIT Awards,

0:28

but that was just one of six total

0:30

awards she took home that evening. For

0:33

Ray, who at twenty six, has already survived in tumultuous

0:35

rides through the music industry, the evening

0:38

was a complete coup. Ray

0:40

started writing songs as a young girl growing up

0:42

in South London. By seventeen, she

0:44

signed her first record deal with Polydor Records

0:46

and worked for the next seven years as a songwriter.

0:50

While writing songs for artists like Beyonce, John

0:52

Legend and Rihanna, Ray was also

0:54

writing her own songs, which her label

0:57

refused to release. She was eventually

0:59

able to leave Polydor and in twenty twenty

1:01

three independently released her debut

1:03

album to heaps of critical acclaim, kicked

1:06

off by her viral TikTok powered hit

1:09

Escapism. Ray's

1:11

vulnerability on her album about her own struggles

1:13

with self esteem, substance abuse, and

1:15

sexual assaults have proven to resonate

1:18

deeply with fans everywhere. On

1:21

today's episode, I talked to Ray about

1:23

her wild journey through the music business.

1:25

She explains how a quote from Nina Simone gave

1:27

her the courage to take control of her career,

1:30

how a ski trip in Utah helped inspire

1:32

some of her best songwriting ever, and

1:34

about her sprawling new single out Everywhere

1:37

now called Genesis.

1:41

This is broken record liner notes

1:43

for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman.

1:46

Here's my conversation with ray

1:49

Man. Your Coachella set seemed like it

1:51

was really well received. I got to see a

1:53

bit of it. It was awesome.

1:54

It was definitely really a special one

1:56

for us. I think it's the first time I've

2:00

witnessed a crowd like that for me in

2:02

a festival in the States, you know, So

2:05

that was like a really special

2:07

change. But it's something I'm not used to out

2:10

here.

2:10

What felt different about that crowd?

2:12

Well, I think in America, like it's

2:15

it's always been intimidating. I think as a

2:17

British artist, you know, the idea

2:19

of like performing in America

2:22

anyways, just intimidating. And

2:24

you know, I've done quite a few, not loads, but

2:27

a few other festivals out here

2:29

where you're like, right, we need to win the

2:32

crowd, we need to grow the crowd. Yeah,

2:35

so Coachella just I wasn't expecting

2:37

it to be that full, and people

2:40

were really engaged and it was

2:42

really special.

2:43

This wasn't a case of you getting your

2:45

music out to a bunch of people at the festival. It's like

2:47

those were people are like now converted,

2:49

like people are Ray fans.

2:51

Do you know what? I do have a habit during during

2:53

shows of really over analyzing

2:56

everyone's faces. I feel like at the beginning

2:58

of the set, I was like, right, I need I

3:01

was like, right, I need to win. I need

3:04

people to get to know me, you know kind

3:06

of thing. And I always try and leave a

3:08

bit of space. We ended up taking a song or two

3:10

out so that I'd have more time to chat.

3:12

I like to have a little chat some people. She

3:15

needs to stop talking about. I'd just like to talk.

3:18

And I think also it's a case of maybe some people

3:20

have heard the songs or maybe the

3:23

song that started to cross over here, and

3:25

they're like, let's go and see what it's about. And I think

3:27

my mission is always during a performance,

3:30

I just want people to walk away and be like I

3:32

would see that again, or that was good. You

3:34

know, That's my goal. Yeah, and you can

3:36

see people being one of you know, people going

3:38

from stern faith or just like watching with

3:41

no expression to being like okay,

3:44

or do you know what I mean, You're like way even they're doing it and

3:46

you're like okay, cool, Like you know, have.

3:48

You discovered little things that you can do over the course

3:51

of a set to maybe like reliably

3:54

win people over.

3:56

I think honesty has always

3:58

been something that's kind of important. I've never really

4:01

I don't really plan what I

4:03

say. I kind of keep the music. You know,

4:05

we know what we're doing within the songs, but

4:07

even some of the endings of songs we leave

4:10

space, and I just kind of like it

4:12

to be as open as possible. And I think

4:15

sometimes when you're just playing songs and not talking,

4:18

people can't really get to know

4:20

you. They're just getting to know the music. So I think

4:22

that's an important thing as well. I

4:24

like to try and give a little back story

4:27

behind whatever this song is about or this

4:30

moment, and just.

4:30

Being not a script your stage banter at all.

4:33

No, So sometimes I'd be like, oh my god,

4:35

why.

4:35

Did I just say that you halfway

4:37

through targets, Like what am I saying? Yeah?

4:39

No, there is a lot of that when am

4:41

I going with that?

4:42

I think I even did that. I was like, I

4:44

don't know why, I just told you that, let's move

4:47

on, you know.

4:48

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah,

4:51

the way the album came about was kind

4:53

of security's It wasn't a situation

4:55

where you were at a label.

4:58

It basically there was a lot of roadblocks if

5:00

you want to just I guess walk us through

5:02

some of those.

5:03

Yeah, it's just not necessarily been as

5:06

simple ten years to

5:09

get to this moment. You know. I was about

5:12

seventeen when I signed my deal,

5:15

and I was with a record label for seven years,

5:17

and I think, yeah.

5:20

Can we name them? No? I mean, I

5:23

mean, I think it's on the record.

5:26

And you know, I think being a British artist,

5:29

it's a very different world out there. I

5:31

think it's very dance

5:34

orientated. There are formulas

5:36

typically that are safer formulas

5:39

that you practice as a songwriter. You know, I started

5:41

in this game as a songwriter

5:44

from the age of fourteen is when I

5:46

really took it seriously, and I was doing sessions

5:48

off school and stuff, and you kind of learn really

5:50

quickly. Okay, there's a formula

5:53

to this, you know, accessibility,

5:56

repetition, symmetry,

5:59

you know, the whole math spine, the kind of the songwriting

6:01

thing, and.

6:02

How did that change your songwriting as a young Like

6:04

when you're fourteen, I imagine you're coming to it pretty pure,

6:06

like just probably just want to do express

6:08

and eight yeah, and then you're realizing there's like a

6:10

formula. Did that change your

6:12

songwriting.

6:13

Opposed to like change? I think it's just almost

6:16

a world of just gathering skills. You know,

6:18

when I started writing songs, it was very much feeling

6:20

and freestyling and what felt

6:22

right and being like, oh, I did

6:25

a lot of songwriting in Sweden. There's some incredible

6:27

pop rous songwriters out there, and I used

6:29

to fly out for a couple of weeks at a time and write

6:32

with all the producers and writers to anyone that would

6:34

let me in a session. And from

6:37

that you're like, oh wow, you know, it's

6:39

not just whatever melody feels nice. It's

6:41

like, okay, we have a melody here. The end of

6:43

the melody is a little bit too complicated.

6:46

This word doesn't roll off the tongue as nice,

6:48

you know, and chipping away and sculpting

6:50

something, so yeah, you know, they're all skills that

6:53

I'm really glad I acquired.

6:55

And I think for different artists

6:58

and different sounds and different genres, you

7:00

kind of need more of one skill than another

7:02

and stuff like that. But within that space, you know, dance

7:05

music is huge at symmetry and maths

7:07

and repetition and lyric

7:09

that everyone can relate to and easily

7:12

digestible and stuff like that. So I kind

7:14

of, from a younger age realized I had

7:16

a knack at being persistent and chipping

7:18

away at something until the artist

7:21

or the person I was writing with was happy and.

7:23

You could take whatever criticism that

7:25

would come with a version one.

7:28

And when writing for someone else, it's not about you

7:30

know, my opinion to a degree, But you

7:32

know, I'm a people pleaser as well, So

7:35

I'm going to make this song, going to do it so they love it. You

7:37

know, it's all a performance as well. In another way,

7:39

it's kind of funny. But yeah, I think

7:41

when that started to cross over and bleed

7:43

into what my label

7:46

at the time wanted from me, and

7:48

the goal was selling opposed

7:51

to the art itself, did.

7:53

You know that going in or was that kind of

7:55

a were you blindsided a bit by Oh?

7:57

No, of course not. Yeah, nobody does. Yeah,

8:00

it's a real thing. You know that moment

8:02

before you put pen on paper. Everyone

8:05

is so nice. They

8:07

take you for dinners, sell

8:09

you a whole lot of lovely

8:12

dreams and promises. Like some

8:15

of the things. I was like sixteen years old when I

8:17

started doing the rounds and some of

8:19

the things I heard, Oh my god, I'm not even

8:21

gonna run me on here, because but it's

8:23

wild.

8:24

What are you wear?

8:26

Something like? You know this? We

8:28

have this artist said artists. I won't even

8:30

name the name, but they've heard your music. They've

8:32

agreed to endorse you. If you sign

8:34

with Vice, you're going to have

8:37

this. You're going to have that. This isn't even this

8:39

is just people just talk and artists

8:42

in this stage. No people

8:44

will say anything to

8:46

get you to put your name on that piece of

8:48

paper. When you're sixteen years old from

8:51

South London and you're like in America

8:53

doing meetings with these big, huge people,

8:56

it can absolutely just muddel

8:59

your brain up and false hope

9:01

and a lot of lies, a lot of air

9:05

that's real. I was like, raw,

9:07

this place is dark.

9:09

How quickly after you put fended papers you realize

9:11

that, oh I just got bamboos.

9:16

Maybe I'd like to say a

9:19

year in maybe Also

9:22

the guy who had signed me had then

9:24

left, so the

9:27

dynamics changed pretty quickly after

9:29

that.

9:30

That's a pretty common story too, I think,

9:32

I hear, yeah, it is your support structure

9:34

leaves and then you're kind of left.

9:36

There's actually a contractual clause called

9:39

a key Man clause, which artists

9:41

should know about, and I didn't

9:43

at the time, but it means, you

9:45

know, you get that clause put into your contract,

9:48

means if the person who signs

9:50

you leaves, that you have the right to terminate

9:53

or move with them. It's called a key Man clause,

9:56

and it's just something I wish I knew about when I was seventeen.

9:59

To what extent were you happy with the early

10:02

phases and stages of your career like

10:04

those first from like sixteen seventeen to you

10:06

know, a couple of years ago, only a few years ago.

10:09

Well, I think it was a tricky one because it

10:12

wasn't about my goals.

10:15

It was about, you know, needing

10:17

to impress these people

10:20

who basically have

10:23

my career in their hands. You

10:26

know, they get to decide whether they're going to promote

10:28

something or they're not, whether they're going to pause

10:31

my timeline or help me move

10:34

things along. So you have to play ball,

10:36

you know, and you learn that pretty quick. Yeah,

10:39

So I did my best to do that. The

10:42

goal always has been since

10:44

the day that I signed to now

10:46

in my career, to be an album's

10:49

artist. I wanted to release bodies of work,

10:51

and I was really excited to be

10:53

able to earn the right to

10:57

decide what music I wanted to share. And it was

10:59

kind of always presented that. You know, when

11:02

you have a song that's big enough and

11:04

you've earned an audience that's big

11:06

enough and wants an album from you, that you can

11:08

do that.

11:09

So, yeah, when did

11:11

your debut album start coming together? When did

11:13

you record that?

11:14

I would say maybe about

11:17

four or five years ago. Some of

11:19

the earliest songs started coming together.

11:22

What were the first few?

11:24

Oscar Win in Tears was there

11:26

for a long time hard out Here, but

11:28

the instrumental was made years ago.

11:31

But then I wrote a whole nother song on top of it Worth

11:34

It was an older one, yeah, A

11:36

couple of songs had just been around for a while.

11:38

Five Stars was an old one, yeah,

11:41

and I had the title about four

11:43

years ago. It's funny because I was going

11:46

through some of my notebooks at home and I found this

11:49

notebook. It was dated like twenty

11:51

eighteen or something. It said my twenty first century

11:54

Blues.

11:55

Wow.

11:55

So the title the ideas

11:58

were forming for a while.

12:00

Yeah. Do you remember why that title came

12:02

to you? Why that phrase came to you?

12:04

I don't know completely. What I do know

12:06

is when I was a kid, maybe it was about

12:08

four ten years old, and my dad and

12:11

my uncle we went on a road trip. Basically,

12:13

we drove through America. We started in la and we went all

12:15

the way through to I think it

12:17

was Atlanta. We ended somewhere

12:20

and we drove all through Nashville,

12:23

We drove through New Orleans and Louisiana.

12:26

We like did our whole trip. And at

12:29

that time, everywhere we'd drive, we'd put on the local

12:31

radios, you know in the UK. You know, I've

12:33

listened to a lot of gospel and some of the

12:35

greats, amazing singers, but there was so much

12:38

music and genres I've never been exposed to. And I

12:40

think I had a life changing experience

12:42

when I was in New Orleans, and it was at

12:44

a place called the Preservation Jazz Hall and

12:48

it was like a room, like one hundred and fifty

12:50

people coming to this room and there's just this

12:53

band. And I remember being sat cross legged

12:55

on the floor. I was sat right underneath

12:57

this guy's trombone. I had like spit flying

13:00

in my face. She sat

13:02

there like wide eyed, just

13:06

like.

13:06

What is this.

13:07

I'd never experienced anything like it. And

13:09

it was just a fusion of kind of jazz

13:12

and the blues. And I remember being like, whatever

13:14

this is, I want a part of that. And since then, I

13:17

kind of my tastes changed and I

13:19

just wanted to know more and understand more about

13:22

this feeling, this kind of music. And

13:24

yeah, so although we

13:26

barely scratch over any kind of blues

13:28

textures in this album, what

13:31

I fell in love with was the songwriting and

13:34

how you know, we go to these bars and you've got people

13:36

playing.

13:42

Be like.

13:43

When I was a little boy, I

13:47

went to school one day and then

13:50

I sat on a chair, no just

13:54

say you know what I mean? These

13:56

stories and each one was different. It was the same

13:59

riff and just all these stories and I was

14:01

like, wow, so this is their

14:03

blues. And I was like, this is deep and they're deep

14:05

stories, moving stories, very honest and transparent

14:08

and clearful, and I fell in love. I'd

14:11

always had this idea if I wanted to make

14:13

whatever my version of the

14:16

blues is, even though it's not necessarily that genre,

14:19

it's that candidness.

14:21

Well, and there's a bravado on a lot

14:23

of your you know. I don't know if it's like the whole album, because

14:25

there's some very vulnerable bits,

14:27

but there is an added to a backbone to this album

14:30

for sure that runs through it. And I

14:33

love the book ends. It's

14:35

like, as you put it on, it's like you're

14:37

being transported to like a smokey jazz

14:40

club, you know what I mean. And and

14:42

by the time it ends, you're right back there, and

14:44

then you're almost ready to play right over again. And

14:47

it's amazing to hear that that stuck with you,

14:49

and then that made it that far from child a childhood

14:51

road trip across the ten through from LA

14:53

to New Orleans and up that that stayed

14:55

with you all these years. It really did. After

14:59

a quick break, we'll be back with more of my conversation

15:02

with Ray. We're

15:06

back with more from Ray, who

15:09

referenced wanting to be in an album artist.

15:11

What were some of the albums that you grew

15:14

up on that were like the bed rocks for you, like

15:16

the ones that were like the perfect records for you.

15:18

My goodness. The first

15:21

two albums that played such an important part

15:23

in my childhood was Alicia

15:25

Keys The Diary of Alisha Keys. That was a

15:27

big one for me. Wow, that

15:29

was the first hard copy album I ever

15:31

bought. And then Who Is Jill Scott?

15:35

Jill Scott? That blew

15:37

my mind? And I think also

15:39

like being in the UK and just again the

15:41

stuff we was exposed to. And then my

15:44

uncle shout out. Uncle jose put

15:46

me on to this album. He

15:49

started with a Long Walk and I was listening

15:51

to this song like she's just

15:53

talking with melodies. You

15:56

know, you're used to hearing these perfect rhyming

15:58

couplets and everything being whatever, but

16:01

she's just like speaking to you

16:03

like a conversation, and it was so casual

16:05

the way she would sing that

16:07

entire album blew my mind.

16:10

Watching me, you know, she's like she's

16:13

talking about CCTV and people

16:15

watching her like she's just gone to the shop

16:18

to buy some double or triple A batteries.

16:21

She's like checking and see where I go? Who

16:23

I be? How where with who I

16:25

make my money?

16:26

What is this?

16:28

Excuse me? Miss may, I have your

16:30

telephone number and your social security

16:32

She's like, who me? It's like literally

16:35

telling I was like, what is happening? It

16:37

completely blew my mind and I

16:39

fell in love. So those were like two really important

16:41

albums in my childhood.

16:42

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about your relationship

16:45

with hip hop because it feels like

16:47

there's a certain cadence that you can get into sometimes

16:49

that that would also explain it a lot too, Like that

16:52

kind of being able to where it's like are you talking? Are

16:54

you singing?

16:54

Kind of doing both Jills

16:57

Queen of that isn't it?

16:58

And then sometimes you just like she'll be doing that

17:00

and then just take off to whoa

17:03

Okay, I forgot who was right?

17:05

And it's also so free, you know with her. I

17:08

love her style of you

17:10

feel like anything could happen, do you know what I mean? It doesn't

17:13

feel too perfect. It just

17:15

feels so authentic. And I've

17:17

always loved her about her the way she sings and performs

17:19

as well. Yeah.

17:21

Were you listening to a lot of hip hop too growing up?

17:24

Yeah? A fair amount. I mean I

17:26

did get to that age where like Party next Door was

17:28

my everything that's not really hip hop, but

17:30

you know Drake the Weekends Party next Door, you

17:32

know that era we all had where we're.

17:34

All like, oh my god, going

17:37

up on a Tuesday.

17:38

Yeah, the

17:41

Other Weekend's first album was was a big

17:43

one, the trilogy. Yeah, But in terms

17:45

of like hip hop, I don't

17:47

know what kind of exposed to some different stuff.

17:50

I was exposed to a lot grown up and like different family

17:52

members as well.

17:53

Did you see Uncle Jose.

17:55

Yeah, he's actually lives in America.

17:58

So my mum and my uncle

18:01

were both raised in Ghana. When

18:03

they're about twenty two to twenty three, mum

18:05

moved to the UK and Uncle Jose

18:08

moved to America. And

18:10

he's always been so supportive as well, Like

18:13

he bought me my first laptop,

18:15

my MacBook where I used to start making sessions

18:18

on garage band and stuff like that when I was about thirteen

18:20

for my thirteenth birthday, and

18:23

so I started making a lot of demos on there and it

18:25

really helped spark my passion for production

18:28

and vocal production and just making music

18:30

in general. It's so funny because even

18:32

though none of us before me and

18:34

my sisters had ever practiced

18:37

music. It was always the desire for it and the passion

18:39

for it was always in the blood. I'd say,

18:41

like my dad's dad, he

18:44

used to write songs. He used to want to be a songwriter

18:46

professionally in a little town

18:48

in England, north of England, Yorkshire.

18:52

He used to write songs

18:54

on record them onto tape and score it out

18:56

and write the lyrics, and he'd send a

18:59

box of tapes and the sheet music to record

19:01

labels in London, hoping that you

19:03

know, someone might hear his songs

19:06

and like it. And I can't

19:08

even be too can But he did have a song

19:10

stolen from him that turned out

19:12

to be really successful. But you know, theres

19:14

a lot of songwriters it happened for back in the day.

19:17

He didn't get credited and no one believed

19:19

him, and he had no way legally to

19:21

prove it because he didn't have the money to do that, and

19:24

then he gave up on his dream then and there. It's

19:26

so funny that I was

19:29

a kid and I didn't even know the story, and

19:31

I'm like, I just want to write music.

19:33

So it's funny at that time, No, I was

19:35

like seven eight nine when I was like

19:38

making silly, weird poems

19:40

and copying the

19:43

melodies i'd hear in the TV kids

19:45

shows I was watching. And I remember

19:48

one time I was watching this like TV

19:50

show and I liked the melody. It was

19:52

like this kind of jazzy and

19:56

I was about eight, and I pretended that I

19:58

wrote it, but I just changed all the words.

20:00

And then I went to dad, my dad, and I was like, listen

20:03

to this song I wrote, and

20:06

he was blown away, but I didn't tell him

20:08

I'd stolen the song and just change the lyrics to some

20:10

terrible lyrics about snowfalling

20:13

and a Christmas song. It was so bad. I like,

20:15

how that still sticks with you somewhere,

20:17

like I'm afraid of plagiarism.

20:20

But then I realized that's what songwriters. Some songwriters

20:22

do that, or it's sampling

20:24

essentially.

20:25

Yeah, way to get started, you know,

20:28

like copy a bit and the

20:30

lyrics so you can figure out how to do a whole

20:32

class. Yeah.

20:34

But yeah, it's always been in the my family.

20:37

We love music. You know. I grew up in church

20:39

as well. My dad and mom used to sing. Mom used

20:41

to sing in the choir. Dad used to leave worship so

20:44

I grew up watching and listening to

20:47

music being sung every Sunday.

20:49

In like in a church where you grew up, what was leading

20:51

worship? Like would that entails?

20:53

It was like, I don't know, like it's

20:55

not a big church that maybe forty or fifty people,

20:58

you know in a church in Tooting in

21:01

South London where I grew up, and

21:03

my mom and dad would.

21:05

Just sing so like

21:07

a gospel choir.

21:09

No, it's not big, like you know in America,

21:11

you guys have an amazing like huge

21:13

production set ups, like amazing

21:16

music. You know, this is very

21:18

like down to earth from the heart, very.

21:23

Direct from you guys to God in

21:27

the gospel.

21:28

You know, come as you are mate.

21:30

You know, did

21:34

you listen to much gospel?

21:35

Yeah, definitely, Yeah, growing up

21:37

with a lot of Kurt Franklin and Donnie McClerkin

21:40

and some amazing music I was exposed

21:42

to from a really young age. And

21:44

I think about gospel as well, is it's just musically

21:47

so complex. I don't even think

21:49

gospel gets enough credit for how technically difficult

21:52

it is to really execute those things. You

21:54

know, you have them mds

21:56

live in the church on a microphone

21:59

like okay, we're going to chord four and

22:01

then five. Hold,

22:03

hold, hold, we're going six to seven, don't.

22:06

I'm like, this is serious practice.

22:08

Oh for real, it's not joke. No, it's

22:10

great. I want to go back now.

22:12

So you have a few songs for my

22:14

twenty fifth Century Blues. You're still with Polydor.

22:17

You're kind of getting the run around what happens

22:19

next.

22:20

The understanding from my

22:22

perspective also was if

22:25

I was going to do an album, it would need to be a dance

22:27

album. So my twenty first Century Blues kind

22:29

of got put on the back burner and I

22:32

was working on a record

22:34

I needed to hand in songs one

22:37

p fifteen bpm or above, like it needed

22:39

to be like that kind of sound.

22:42

So, as far as my constraints

22:45

allowed, I set out to make

22:47

an album that I was going to call dark dance Songs,

22:50

and it was going to be minor. And I'd

22:53

say the closest thing I had to it was that black mascara

22:55

which I put on my twenty fifth Century Blues. It was all

22:57

this kind of I was trying to find

22:59

my compromise, and then yeah, it just

23:01

ended up that, you know, I had a new person

23:04

who just joined our team and started

23:06

working as my day to day and she was

23:09

supposed to tell me we were in the middle of a shoot for

23:11

something else. You know, I'm like maybe four

23:13

or five months into writing this album, and I'm

23:15

becoming invested and I'm excited about what it's

23:17

going to be. And then she'd basically just

23:20

said that if this song you've just

23:22

put out doesn't do good, You're not going

23:24

to be able to do the album. It just got really messy,

23:26

and I was just I hit just

23:28

a boiling point, a breaking point. I was so angry

23:31

and so frustrated and

23:34

so pissed off. I

23:36

felt like just I was

23:38

just getting treated so unfairly, and

23:41

I've been trying so desperately for the last

23:44

seven years to prove to them that I am a musician,

23:46

Like, look, I'm writing for this person, Like are

23:48

you proud of me yet?

23:49

Like I was just so desperate who are you're writing for?

23:51

At that time, you know, I had

23:54

a good healthy amount of cuts, you know,

23:56

in the dance world and with some

23:59

girl bands and some solo artists,

24:02

and I'd been doing good

24:05

things and every time I remember, every

24:07

time I get caught, I'd kind of want to tell them and

24:09

be like, look, look, I was just so desperate

24:12

for them to believe in me.

24:15

Really, I've really tried so hard

24:17

to achieve that and I just failed. So

24:19

yeah, it just got to a breaking point.

24:21

Yeah so I know you sent a

24:24

tweet out at some point? Was that

24:26

a spur of the moment thing? Was that calculated

24:29

like let me just try something here?

24:31

Or what was the zero strategy

24:34

and planning into that? Not

24:36

tell you? I just was

24:39

like in my head, what the F do

24:41

I have to lose? Like I have nothing to lose.

24:44

I was at a point where I was like, I would rather

24:46

just be a songwriter, like I've

24:49

seven years is a long time, especially from a

24:51

kid, you know, and then that pressure of that, I

24:53

think it's a lie personally, but that pressure of you

24:56

know, when you're young, it's exciting and as you grow up

24:58

you're going to miss your window, especially as a woman,

25:01

like these lies you hear and Yeah, just got to

25:03

a place where if this is what it is to be an artist,

25:05

I don't want to do this. I hate some

25:07

of these songs I'm putting my name to that. I'm out

25:09

here smiling and returning her like trying to

25:11

sell this is like soul

25:14

destroying, especially when

25:16

I'm like in love with my

25:18

craft. I'm in love with music. I was a kid

25:21

when I decided to dedicate my life to

25:24

work in music and wanting to pursue

25:26

a career, and it

25:29

was breaking my heart. It was just making

25:31

me so sad. Yeah,

25:33

So I just got to a point. We just moved house and I

25:35

was in my room. It

25:38

didn't have a bed in it, so I just remember being

25:40

like on a block mattress on the floor, and

25:42

the only thing I had in my room was a picture

25:45

of Nina Simone and under it it said

25:47

a quote it's an artist's duty to reflect

25:49

the times. And I remember sat there in tears,

25:51

like, what the hell am I doing.

25:55

I'm not doing anything important, I'm not

25:57

doing anything that feels right. Nina

26:00

would be so disgusted

26:03

by everything I put to my name. She

26:06

would be like, ill get her out of my

26:08

face. I was like, what have I become like?

26:12

And I said no, no, no,

26:15

and I just let it rip.

26:17

That's a very needless, a long thing to do. Let it rip.

26:19

I mean, thankfully it all worked out. I suppose, as

26:21

the story goes from that tweet, do you

26:24

guys work something out so they let you go. Does that

26:26

go back to that clause the key man.

26:28

No, I sadly never had that clause

26:30

in my contract. I think I

26:33

just got so lucky in that people

26:36

decided to care about what I'd shared.

26:38

And I think probably there's also a lot of people unaware

26:41

of all the ins and outs of what goes on behind

26:43

closed doors. And I had

26:45

a lot of news platforms in the UK reaching

26:47

out, wanting to have a conversation

26:49

and wanting to understand more

26:51

about what's going on and

26:55

what it can be like for a lot of artists sometimes

26:57

when you're having difficulties

27:00

on seeing eye to eye with the

27:03

teams that you're contractually bound to, and

27:07

that became leverage and

27:09

I was able to be like, respectfully,

27:12

let's leave this here now and.

27:14

Then you get to put out your album independently.

27:17

Yeah. I don't know that it could have worked out

27:19

more perfectly in the end.

27:21

No, it's honestly how everything's turned out,

27:23

is all I can describe it as is

27:26

a series of just miracle after miracle.

27:28

I think I was so overwhelmed at how

27:32

much music of mine was already out

27:34

there in the world. In my head, I was like, how could

27:36

I possibly change the narrative? In

27:38

the UK, people see me as a

27:41

feature vocalist, a voice

27:43

like, who's going to care?

27:45

You know?

27:46

I just got so ridiculously

27:48

lucky and Escapism

27:51

receiving so much attention

27:54

on TikTok and then all of its suddenly

27:56

getting pushed out to all these new

27:58

ears and that's the first

28:00

they've heard of me, and that's so it was

28:02

so exciting and like, wow, you

28:05

know, anything really is possible.

28:07

Were you shocked by the reception of Escapism?

28:10

Oh? Completely, yeah. But I was also so

28:12

happy because I love that song. I

28:16

remember when we put that out. Oh my gosh,

28:18

Like, if only people were

28:20

going to be able to hear this song that was

28:22

my thing in my head. I was like, oh, just if

28:25

people could just hear this song, you know. I

28:28

remember me and my dad was talking. I was like, Dad,

28:30

could you imagine, Yeah, if

28:33

something crazy happened and Escapism

28:35

just went really big and became number

28:38

one, we looked at each other and we were like, ah, ha ha,

28:40

that'll never happened. I

28:44

remember that conversation clear as day. I

28:46

was like, could you imagine? He was like, yeah, I could imagine.

28:48

That would be crazy right, and then bang.

28:52

Fruish. Why did you write

28:55

that song in Utah?

28:56

Yeah? I did.

28:57

What's the story on that?

28:58

We took a road trip another road

29:01

trip.

29:01

I like, good for you.

29:03

I like a car. I like a long drive. And

29:05

also it's good to get out of the city. I think

29:07

when you're in a city and you know, be there or whatever, it

29:10

can be distracting and you could be like someone like

29:12

do you want to do this? La la la, and you just

29:15

want to go somewhere in the middle of nowhere where

29:17

you're just in a peaceful place and you

29:19

just have to be present. It was

29:21

nice never No.

29:25

All the two people I went with are good at skiing. I'm

29:27

not very good at save only skied once before

29:30

in the school trip. I decided to join

29:32

them for skiing in between writing, and

29:35

it was a disaster. These two are like cross

29:37

country, like off Pieced Mountain, freaking

29:40

skiers. Yeah, they're like, don't worry, we'll stay

29:42

together, We'll go slow. I

29:46

took a wrong turn in black Run. What

29:49

the only way is down?

29:50

This?

29:50

Whatever? Foot drop? Absolutely not?

29:52

Whatuld you do?

29:53

And my friend's screaming at me, like you have to ski down?

29:55

I was like bitch, I skiing down, I'm

29:59

walking. She's like free sure, And there's all

30:01

these like four year old kids like just gunning

30:03

it down the hill. Took

30:07

me about an hour to get down. It

30:09

was hell. After that, I

30:11

left them to it. I went sat on the campfire near the entrance

30:13

and just made friends. But yeah,

30:15

skiing, it's gonna be a while before I go back there.

30:18

Maybe take some time on there. Yeah, yeah.

30:20

But the songwriting was productive. We were there

30:22

for seven days and it was such a nice

30:24

time and we wrote basically

30:27

the other half of the album that was missing. It

30:30

all started with titles. Titles are usually

30:32

how a song will start for me, So

30:35

I had title Mary Jane, environment and

30:38

anxiety. Escape is body

30:40

dysmorphia. So those were my four titles.

30:43

There was one or two more that we wrote, but that didn't make.

30:45

It Environmental Anxiety.

30:48

Speaking of the Nina Simone quote in

30:50

artists duty is to reflect the times your I mean is

30:53

so intense. How

30:56

did you capture that so well?

30:58

We booked a log cabin and we were

31:00

staring it across it was like a mountain

31:02

in some trees and we were like, wow, that so beautiful.

31:05

Was in the morning and Mike Sabbath,

31:08

the producer who I made this album with. The

31:11

guy is so eccentric. We got downstairs

31:13

and he'd made this little like oh no, no, it's

31:15

like weird like sound. He'd like morphed

31:18

his voice to sound like a chipmunk l whatever, and it's just looping

31:20

around and around and just playing these weird bells.

31:23

And I was like, Mike, you've lost your absolute mind,

31:25

but like, let's fucking go, do you know what I mean? And

31:27

we were looking at the view and we was like, damn, like

31:30

we're being so cruel to our planet. And we just started

31:32

on a tangent, you know. And I think it's something

31:34

a lot of us are worried about but are powerless to

31:36

really do any actual change,

31:39

or it's something that needs to come

31:41

from our governments. Yeah,

31:44

a lot of people don't care.

31:45

You kind of sum it all up and put a bow on

31:47

it in like three minutes and

31:50

ten seconds. It's like, yoh wow, like

31:52

you kind of like distill all the

31:54

anxieties of kind of our world

31:56

at large and all the problems and

31:58

issues and and Boris johnson'sn't

32:00

cooking.

32:04

We all know that's true, but come

32:06

on, it seems seems like it's true this

32:09

article, yeah, which is so funny. But

32:11

they tested the sewage. I don't

32:13

know who was testing the sewage of the houzards

32:15

of Parliament and they found such

32:18

a high concentration of cocaine in

32:20

the sewage. I don't even know

32:23

if we should be talking about this. But meanwhile,

32:25

you're arresting kids with possession of smoking

32:27

a little bit of weed on the street, I mean, putting

32:29

them in jail for that. Meanwhile, you're all in there

32:31

doing coke. It's just not fair. None

32:34

of it's fair, is it.

32:35

But I'm glad you're speaking to someone like you.

32:38

May we gotta put these things on blasts. It's incorrect.

32:40

It's beautiful song. So those are all voices on that intro,

32:42

right, all those sounds, it's all a voice manipulated.

32:45

And then your voice incredible. You harmonize

32:47

with yourself really well.

32:48

I love harmonies. When a voice can become

32:51

a pad or a simp or something as well, it's exciting.

32:53

You know. Yeah, it's a really gorgeous sound your voice,

32:55

like when it builds out like that. It's

32:57

gorgeous escapism too. I love

33:00

the two different perspectives two different voices.

33:02

It's like you're in the story and then you kind

33:05

of get like you're narrating it for us, right, which

33:07

is like a cool thing to do.

33:09

So love to bounce between first person

33:11

and third person. I find that

33:14

fun and like, yeah,

33:16

the narration aspect of it. I

33:18

always like it's funny. Sometimes I'll be writing

33:20

and all the other day with me and my creative

33:22

director, we're trying to do something, and I kept I

33:25

realized, I just love to mix. He's

33:27

like, you know, this sentence is third person and this sentences

33:29

first person. And I was like, you know what, I like mixing

33:32

it. Fuck it.

33:34

Yet? Why not? Yeah, after

33:37

this last break, we'll come back with the rest of my conversation

33:40

with Ray. We're

33:45

back with the rest of my conversation with

33:47

Ray. It's not by Mary Jane a little

33:49

bit. What made you choose that as a song title?

33:52

All the songs we wrote in Utah? You

33:54

know, I wanted to address kind

33:57

of these subjects kind of pretty

33:59

head on. And I think I've

34:01

always had a very kind of addictive personality,

34:04

and I've i think especially

34:06

because I was playing this like sweet

34:08

little hot artists kind

34:11

of character, or at least that's what I was attempting

34:13

to sell. But really behind closed doors, I was just

34:16

really not dealing with things great, and

34:18

I was just outside, not even outside.

34:20

I was just moving mad. Yeah,

34:22

and I got trapped into some pretty intense

34:25

kind of cycles

34:27

and picked up some unhealthy habits, you

34:29

know how it be. Sometimes Also you become really good

34:31

at hiding it. I was just distant

34:34

from my family. I was just lost and not happy.

34:36

Does your family kind of recognize what was going on?

34:38

Yeah? I didn't really seen it. I think it was

34:40

like a year or whatever. I saw my parents like twice

34:43

in a year, which is really unlike me. Now my parents

34:45

are like around me all the time and I tell

34:47

them everything and I love him. But yeah, there

34:49

was just a period of time where I was

34:51

fully on escapers and vibes. Yeah,

34:54

I mean, just yeah, running

34:56

away from reality. There's a

34:58

lot of these subjects which I

35:00

find there's no real place to

35:02

have these conversations or in a space

35:05

where you don't feel judged or you don't feel

35:08

disgusting or embarrassed.

35:10

You know.

35:10

I talk in this song about codeine, you know, and

35:13

there's a lot of us who can develop these kind of dependencies

35:16

on things, and it's so easy

35:18

to keep a secret and hide it and it can get dangerous,

35:20

and it did for me for a bit, you know. So

35:23

I just wanted to write a song, kind of weird,

35:25

twisted kind of love song. I think it's

35:27

one of those things as well. Once you open Pandora's

35:29

box, you know, but they say

35:32

it's it's hard to close it.

35:33

Yeah, were you ever wary of I

35:35

mean, Mary Jane escapeism, body

35:39

dysmorphia? Was there ever a part of you that

35:41

we felt like maybe I don't want

35:43

this on the app? Because then of course just

35:46

from the bit of press that I've picked

35:49

up about you over time,

35:51

it's like, wow, people are asking you really

35:53

like heavy. I'm like, I don't

35:55

know if I don't want to talk about this, Like I

35:58

just just like, how how did you ever feel worried

36:00

about that? Do you not? Do you regret it?

36:02

But does every part of you feel like damn? I don't know if I want

36:04

to go? You know.

36:05

It's like you know what

36:07

I think, I think a conscious

36:09

choice you have to make as an artist, Like what kind of artists

36:12

am I going to be? There are

36:15

incredible artists who don't

36:17

let you in on that side of their life who

36:20

close those doors and they deliver perfection,

36:23

And that's a whole other

36:25

thing, because then you're just dealing with all of

36:27

those things behind closed doors,

36:30

but you present this and I have

36:32

so much respect for those kinds

36:34

of artists, and that in itself takes

36:36

a whole load of bravery

36:39

and rehearsals and skill

36:42

and delivery. That's a whole other thing. And

36:45

then I think there's the other end of it where it's like I'm

36:48

going to be an open book. But then that at the same

36:50

time, that also comes with people who

36:52

you don't know knowing

36:55

things about me that four years ago my

36:58

own family didn't know. Do you know what I mean? It's

37:00

an interesting choice I've made,

37:02

And definitely there are days where it's like, damn,

37:05

I really just did a lot, and

37:07

days are on stage like why did

37:10

I decide to be so open about this?

37:12

But for all of the times

37:15

I do find it tricky or overwhelming,

37:17

I do think that's the kind of artists I want

37:20

to be, even though it's not always easy. Does

37:22

that make sense? Yeah?

37:23

I mean it kind of does make you a real writer

37:25

in a way, and that writers really

37:28

want to write about real

37:30

human experience and are kind of always

37:32

drudging and mining that stuff all

37:34

the time, you know, like kind of the misery and a sense

37:37

and sometimes the joy and all that

37:39

too, but kind of moving between those two

37:42

in music, you know, I think some people shy away

37:44

from that.

37:44

It's difficult, but also it's what you

37:47

feel comfortable, or what your purpose is. Some

37:50

artists purposes to entertain, and damn

37:52

well do they entertain, you know. And

37:54

I think for me as a writer, I

37:57

kind of see it as you're creating

37:59

a commentary on the human experience

38:01

from your perspective, and that does require

38:03

honesty. I think vulnerability is so

38:06

important and it's difficult. Sometimes

38:09

it can be very difficult for me personally

38:11

in my taste. I always find the music

38:14

that I connect to the most is where

38:16

I feel just like I've been let in and I'm

38:18

just hearing candidness.

38:21

It hurts. Sometimes it's like oh sugar,

38:24

or it's like not even for me just as a listener,

38:26

you know, you're like, oh my god, this is bringing tears

38:28

to my eyes. You know, if someone's telling your

38:31

story and you're just you have goosebumps all

38:33

over your skin and you're completely enchanted.

38:35

And then it takes you to somewhere in your life and

38:38

then provide some sort of aid

38:40

or band aid we say, plaster, or

38:42

some sort of hug or some sort of space

38:45

for you to cry and feel it. So as a listener,

38:47

that's where I feel

38:49

most moved. But it's definitely

38:51

not an easy thing to do.

38:53

Was ice Cream Man? Was that a difficult song

38:55

to record and to Yeah,

38:57

I.

38:57

Mean, without a doubt, Yeah, definitely

39:00

the whole. Yeah,

39:03

that one's deep. It's just deep, because

39:06

my god, that song, it's just I'm

39:09

still you know, like a lot of us are

39:11

working through those things in it. But I

39:13

got a message the other day on my Instagram

39:16

DMS. Trying not to spend too much time on my socials

39:18

and stuff, but every now and then I have a little

39:21

look. And it was maybe about two days

39:23

ago, and I got this message from this lady and she

39:25

was about in her fifties

39:27

and she sent me this long,

39:30

beautiful message. It was really sad message

39:32

about her life,

39:35

and she was telling

39:37

me about some of the things she went through as

39:39

a child and working through it,

39:41

and it was so moving. I

39:44

was so moved. I read it about

39:46

six times. Even brings to his to my eyes now, and

39:49

I was just like, my goodness, like some

39:51

of us are carrying so much. And

39:54

she just expressed at the end of the message that she

39:57

was really grateful for that song because it

40:00

gave her the confidence to talk to someone that

40:03

she loved about something she'd beencerned about her whole life.

40:06

There are so many of us out here dealing

40:08

with things, carrying things, holding things.

40:11

There's no instruction manual what to do. This is

40:13

where music is like medicine and provides

40:15

a space of healing or reflection. So as

40:18

tricky is that song is for me on the worst to

40:20

days, I'm just so grateful

40:23

that even if it was only her, you

40:25

know that that's even been able to provide

40:28

some sort of I don't even know what the

40:30

words are, but I was just so mood.

40:32

Do you perform the song?

40:33

Yeah? I do now. Sometimes

40:35

it's sad, sometimes I do cry a lot.

40:38

Sometimes I could sing it and I feel really powerful.

40:41

I feel really safe inside my music. I

40:44

think that's another thing that maybe allows me to be

40:47

so honest and vulnerable. It

40:50

feels like if I was just to say some

40:53

of the lyrics in this conversation

40:55

with you, but without a melody and without the safe

40:57

space inside a song, I

41:00

would not be comfortable to do that at

41:02

all, which is weird. But

41:05

it feels like within a song, it's on my

41:07

terms in the sonic bed.

41:10

That feels like it's correct to lie

41:13

and it feels safe.

41:16

It feels like no one can

41:18

spin this or nobody can have

41:21

an opinion too negative

41:23

besides not liking the song, but they

41:25

can't be like, well I don't believe her, Well

41:28

this and that, you know, all the

41:30

scrutiny that you can get from being open

41:33

and transparent about your life. But without a song,

41:35

Yeah, you.

41:36

Have a new single Genesis, and

41:39

it's really great. But when

41:41

it started, I was like, okay, all right, like we and

41:45

then you know, three quarters of

41:47

the way through or halfway through, there's a change,

41:50

and it's like the most uplifting. The

41:52

first half is a little it's a little like, oh shoot,

41:55

like this is like I feel like I was a little worried as

41:57

I guess she's still in like a and

42:00

by the end I'm like, oh shit, it feels

42:02

like I'm in preservation Hall and new and

42:06

it's like the lyric is what's the lyric about? Light

42:08

Like blood and lighting.

42:09

They'd be l like, yeah, they'd be light.

42:10

It feels maybe more like where your

42:12

life is now than some of the

42:15

album, you know, I know that feels true to

42:17

you.

42:18

Yeah. I think the Planners will put out the full

42:20

seven minutes and then the

42:22

week after kind of split them into

42:24

three different songs. So you have Genesis

42:27

one, which is that kind of really sad reflection

42:29

in the mirror of depressing conversation

42:31

with yourself someone. Song

42:34

two is that heavy whatever

42:37

sound, and then song three is the kind of

42:39

big band vibe at the end, and I think

42:42

you can almost see it as maybe an EP or

42:44

something. But I wanted to put all the songs

42:46

in one and kind of force you

42:48

to try and have to listen to all of it just

42:50

in one, which is a lot and I

42:52

think I really took like

42:54

a lot of passion and a lot of time went

42:57

into the lyrics for me and making

43:00

sure that it said what it needed to say. I wanted

43:02

it to be cutting and again

43:04

honest, and I wanted to talk about themes of you

43:07

know, suicide and which

43:09

is again just I

43:12

think also even for young men,

43:15

I think there's this kind of thing of

43:17

like just feeling things and not

43:19

talking about it. I recently lost

43:22

someone who was really close to the family, just gone,

43:25

you know, and you didn't even know that

43:27

they were going for anything.

43:29

Suicide.

43:30

Yeah, there's a lot of people

43:33

just as you know, fighting a lot of stuff.

43:35

I wanted to create a song that felt like if

43:38

you are going for anything like that, or you do feel

43:41

in any sort of way burdened

43:44

or like you're going for a really tough time.

43:46

I wanted to create a piece of music that you

43:48

could allow yourself to feel it in the beginning,

43:52

and then the music kind of starts to lift

43:54

you up in the middle, even though the lyric is still heavy,

43:57

taking you maybe to a more powerful place to process

44:00

that emotion, and then by the end

44:03

hopefully feeling some positivity and

44:05

some hope. So I wanted it to be this journey

44:07

of if any one even relates

44:10

to one of the sentences in that song, you

44:12

know, And I was trying to create an open scape

44:14

of my honesty. But then also what

44:17

else are people our love or people

44:19

I don't even know going through or need from

44:21

this song? So it's quite a deep one, Yeah

44:24

it is.

44:24

Well, I'm so grateful you loved us with

44:27

that we needed, so we

44:29

absolutely needed. Yeah,

44:34

man, how are you going to do that live? Well?

44:38

Look, in my dream scenario, there

44:40

will always be many many musicians on the

44:42

stage. From a cost efficiency

44:45

perspective, we're working

44:47

now, but you know

44:49

who needs to make notes of money? Like who needs

44:51

to do that?

44:52

Sure? I mean travel with the big band?

44:55

Bring them out? You worked with Dark

44:57

Child? I

44:59

love Dark Child? Rodney Man, how did

45:01

you look about Rodney?

45:02

That's my bro. I actually met him

45:04

when I was a kid, like my first trip to LA when

45:06

I was about seventeen, and I was taking some meetings

45:09

and I remember at the time I hadn't made anything good

45:11

enough to like really capture his

45:13

attention. But I remember thinking

45:15

in my head like one day he's

45:17

going to hear my music and be like she's sick.

45:20

Like I remember that being a goal. And

45:22

then we got connected and maybe

45:24

like two years ago, and got in the

45:26

studio and started working on what is this song?

45:29

So it's been a labor of love for quite a long time. He's

45:32

really brilliant and I have a lot of love for him,

45:34

and I put him through the ring.

45:36

On this Tell me about it.

45:38

Oh my god. I called him again and be like, we

45:40

need to fix the drums. I'm like, we need

45:43

to. You know, we had this original drum

45:45

loop and I'm like, it's giving, but it wasn't

45:47

live. It had a live texture, but

45:49

some of the frequencies were too sharp and it was jarring.

45:52

And I was like, we need to it needs

45:54

to have the same feel, but it

45:57

needs to feel clean and a bit more raw

45:59

and down to earth and and not have

46:01

that kind of distracting whatever. And he'd be like, okay,

46:04

okay. So we trapped different things and then

46:06

we go back and back and and then it was like, finally,

46:08

yes, we got it. So we took the original drummer

46:10

and made it like twenty percent in volume and then played this new

46:13

one over the top so you still get that whatever.

46:16

And then I remember I was at the baseline. I think

46:18

we need a completely different melody to it. So

46:20

then we did this baseline where I basically

46:23

recorded twenty and

46:27

we stacked and stacked and stacked, vocally

46:30

manipulated it, put it down the octave, and then

46:32

played a symp with it. Like there was so

46:34

much experimentation and

46:38

things that needed to be changed, things that needed

46:40

to be added, and he was so patient

46:43

with me because I'm so annoying every

46:47

little detail life Ronnie,

46:50

we needed her, I'll call him like Hi, Ray,

46:53

Like hey, So, I was just thinking

46:55

that we need a new verse two, you

46:58

know, and maybe we do a string section.

47:00

I even have notes now, and we've handed in

47:03

the master, and I'm thinking maybe

47:05

the vinyl is going to be different to

47:07

the version that's going to come out. I think we need

47:09

a more soft detexture on verse one because the lyrics

47:12

already so hard that

47:14

you need some softness around it, you

47:17

know. And then we played these brass on SNL

47:19

that was so good that I'm

47:21

like, we need to add that in. So there's

47:23

probably going to be some changes in the vinyl

47:25

of seven inch version that we printed to what you're

47:28

hearing now. Rodney's such a

47:30

jeep, like he's a legend. He's one of

47:32

the best in the game. He's just constantly leveling

47:35

up, creating music that just stands and tests

47:37

the time wherever or some.

47:38

Of the best singers Janet Tony Braxton,

47:40

I mean, come on, I mean just the

47:43

greatest singers work As

47:46

an album artist, do you

47:48

have a sense of what you want to do next? I

47:51

like to make an album, okay,

47:54

but doing it out like you do, you have a goal

47:56

that I want it to be by boom or you just.

47:58

Like it just has to be good by

48:01

my own standard, and

48:03

I think I'll need to live a little

48:05

bit to like make a really good album. Otherwise

48:08

I'm just gonna be writing about hotel

48:11

rooms and winding roads

48:13

and nobody wants to hear that. So

48:16

I need to go and collect some stories as well

48:18

and live a little bit. I'm

48:20

aware that it's a bit scary in the times

48:22

we're in with everyone having such short attention

48:25

spans, and you know, we're

48:27

it's such an amazing place right now that everyone's

48:29

like, oh, well, when's the next shit

48:32

coming on? Like fucking hell damn,

48:35

Like, I need to go. I need to write. I'm

48:38

not going to put anything out that I don't love and

48:40

I don't believe it's good, and it's got to

48:42

at least be a little bit better than, in

48:45

my opinion, the album we just put out of what's

48:47

the point, I mean, got be leveling up.

48:49

Hey, well, I can't wait to hear it. I hope, Yeah,

48:52

me too, I can't wait to hear it. I'm

48:54

sure it'll be great. It's a great great

48:57

talking to you no like guys. Thank you. Thanks

49:02

to Ray for speaking so openly about her life,

49:04

inspiration and her music. Her

49:06

new single, Genesis is out now everywhere.

49:10

You can hear a playlist of all of our favorite race songs

49:12

at broken record podcast dot com.

49:15

Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

49:17

dot com slash broken Record Podcast,

49:19

where you can find all of our new episodes.

49:22

You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.

49:25

Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah

49:27

Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler

49:30

and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is

49:32

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49:34

is a production of Pushkin Industries.

49:36

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49:57

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49:59

Richmond.