0:00

Listeners are advised that this podcast

0:02

series, Bronwyn, contains course

0:04

language and adult themes. This podcast

0:06

series is brought to you by

0:08

me, Headley Thomas, and

0:10

the Australian. The

0:42

acclaimed actor Simon Baker, a crime-solving

0:44

empath in The Mentalist, grew up

0:46

in this place, Lennox Head. Oh

0:50

yeah, you're the one that were telling

0:52

me about the psychic. He's not

0:54

here. He's here, and

0:57

there's no such thing as psychics. The

1:00

Hollywood star played the role of

1:02

a troubled dad doing his best

1:04

in the Netflix series, Boy Swallows

1:07

Universe, based on my friend Trent

1:09

Dalton's remarkable novel of the same

1:11

name. Simon Baker

1:13

drove down the coast road and

1:15

memory lane with 60 Minutes reporter

1:18

Alison Langdon when he returned to

1:20

his dark brick childhood home here.

1:22

It's gonna somehow have an impact on

1:24

you in a way. When you're living

1:26

here, the power of what this landscape

1:29

is, it's got this intensity in it.

1:32

Just a little farther north, the

1:34

actor Chris Hemsworth often favours the

1:37

famed seven-mile beach near his home

1:39

off Broken Head. Celebrities

1:42

live something close to a normal

1:44

life in these parts. They're

1:46

not hassled or ogled by the

1:48

locals. Murray Nolan

1:51

holds the stop-go sign outside one

1:53

of the schools from time to

1:55

time as a part-time job, and

1:57

he used to see Chris Hemsworth come to college. to

2:00

collect his children. Mari

2:02

and Deb's son, Dale, sees Chris in

2:04

the water when he's back from making

2:06

movies and TV action series. Yeah,

2:09

Dale's often said, he surfed with Chris Amasurf

2:11

today. Yeah, he's just a normal, everyday

2:14

guy, really. He seems very down-to-earth, good on him.

2:16

It's probably good that he's living out here and

2:18

not in the LA hustle and bustle. The

2:21

surfing culture is very strong in

2:23

Linux. And while many

2:25

in the community have strong views

2:28

about him, surfers do respect John.

2:31

He's knowledgeable about conditions and

2:33

weather. He's neither aggressive

2:35

nor greedy when it comes to

2:37

competing for waves. But

2:39

they've also got a nickname for him. Bronwyn's

2:42

friend from the early 1990s, Denise Barnard, shared

2:46

it with me as we sat at

2:48

a table in her Lennox Head Courtyard,

2:50

overlooking a plunge pool. John's

2:53

very well-known out in the surf. How

2:56

is he well-known? They

2:59

call him JTM. JTM.

3:02

John the murderer, JTM. That's what he's known

3:04

as. Does he know that? I

3:07

don't know. I think a lot of people

3:09

have the idea that

3:12

he's done something, sinister

3:14

with Bronwyn way back then, and

3:16

he's got away with it, and he's still out living the life.

3:21

Yeah, and that's what they call him. Shortly

3:25

before this podcast series began,

3:27

one surfer asked John a

3:29

brutally blunt question. Murray

3:31

heard about the exchange and shared it

3:33

with me. Did you

3:35

kill your wife, mate? The surfer asked

3:37

John. No way, John

3:40

replied. She was crazy. She

3:42

ran off. His story

3:45

that Bronwyn, in his words, was not

3:47

right in the head, that she was

3:49

like her mother, Barbara, has endured three

3:51

decades. Here's Bronwyn's

3:53

good friend Deb again, recalling conversations

3:56

with John in May and June

3:58

1993. He

4:01

kept trying to paint the picture that she was

4:03

schizophrenic. You know a mother's schizophrenic?

4:05

You know a sister's schizophrenic? He

4:07

kept saying this to me, right? And I

4:09

said, no. Is this why she was alive? After she'd gone, yeah.

4:12

He tried to paint this picture of Bronwyn to me.

4:15

She'd lost her marbles. And I thought,

4:17

no, she was stressed. But

4:20

I didn't see any evidence of her being schizophrenic. And

4:22

living with him, she was obviously very

4:25

nervous. Like if she was having someone over for coffee,

4:27

she would actually ask me, could they come down here

4:29

in case John came home and she had people there.

4:33

I've been studying a one-page document

4:35

typed in Ballina Police Station at

4:38

the time John Winfield reported his

4:40

wife as missing. It

4:42

is an account of the purported facts

4:45

and circumstances as John explained them to

4:47

the police officer who was on duty,

4:50

Julie Donovan. Officer

4:52

Donovan's name and badge number are

4:54

on this document. Each

4:57

relevant section has been filled with black

4:59

type, as you would expect. It's

5:02

dated May 27. It

5:05

includes Bronwyn's date of birth in late

5:07

April. Her height of 5'8",

5:09

which is 173 centimetres. Her

5:13

fair complexion. Her green or

5:16

hazel eye colour. And

5:18

what was described as her racial

5:20

appearance of Caucasian white. In

5:23

the checkbox for hair colour, the option

5:25

of coloured or dyed is noted. In

5:29

another checkbox asking whether there are fears for

5:31

the safety of the missing person, it

5:34

states, no. The

5:36

name of Bronwyn's GP, Dr Christopher

5:39

Mitchell, and his medical practice are

5:41

also noted on the form. Then

5:44

there's a narrative of a few hundred words

5:46

at the foot of the page. I've

5:49

talked to police contacts about this section

5:51

and they say that it is based

5:53

almost entirely on the initial

5:55

account provided by the person who went into

5:57

the station to make the report to police.

6:00

In this case, John

6:02

Winfield. In the

6:04

narrative, Bronwyn is referred to as

6:07

a POI, and that's

6:09

an abbreviation for Person of Interest.

6:12

You are going to hear a voice actor who will say

6:14

the words. Person of

6:16

Interest was last seen at 9.30pm on 16 May 1993 after

6:22

making several phone calls from the

6:24

above address after husband Jonathan was

6:26

in Sydney. Apparently, the

6:29

two had been officially separated since 22 March

6:31

1993. On

6:35

the night of 16 May, the Person

6:37

of Interest had a conversation with her

6:39

ex-husband and informed him that she

6:41

was leaving. She stated

6:43

that she was leaving and going for a couple

6:45

of weeks holiday. In

6:48

the first notification to police, John has

6:50

asserted that Bronwyn had said she was

6:52

having a break of a fortnight, whereas

6:55

he told Bronwyn's brother Andy and

6:58

sister-in-law Michelle, as well

7:00

as Debbie and Murray that she was going

7:02

for a break of a few days. Here's

7:05

how Michelle described it in Episode 4.

7:09

When he first spoke, he was going down

7:11

the lines of, she's

7:13

walked out and left, and she's left me with the

7:15

kids. And then it switched to,

7:17

she needed a break for a few days.

7:20

She's gone away for a few days to

7:22

get ahead together. There's

7:25

something else that's off about the

7:27

dates and timings. According

7:30

to the account being given by John

7:32

to police, Bronwyn was going away for

7:34

a couple of weeks, which

7:36

would have meant that by the end of the month,

7:38

May 30, he would

7:40

have expected her to return to the

7:42

house and to her children. On

7:45

his account, the one he gave to the

7:48

police, which was different to the one he

7:50

gave to her family and friends, Bronwyn was

7:52

not even missing when he made the May

7:54

27 missing person

7:57

report. Did it occur

7:59

to the police? to question what was

8:01

really going on. To

8:03

dig into whether Bronwyn's family, particularly

8:05

her brother Andy and Bronwyn's friends,

8:08

had pushed John to make the

8:10

report in the first place because

8:12

they understood this was very unusual

8:15

behaviour. The

8:17

next line in the missing person

8:19

report, based on John Winfield's information

8:21

to Ballina police officer Julie Donovan,

8:24

is remarkable. On

8:26

18 May 1993, the person of interest telephoned

8:29

her ex-husband's daughter, Jodie Lynn

8:32

Winfield, at her salon at

8:34

57 Flinders Road, Woolaware,

8:36

and informed her that she was in

8:38

Queensland and that she was not coming

8:40

back. If

8:42

accurate, this line would be a

8:45

powerful indication to police that Bronwyn

8:47

was alive and well, and

8:50

that although Bronwyn had not made

8:52

any contact with her brother or

8:54

her mother or her daughters or

8:56

her half-sister or her

8:58

friends and neighbours or her

9:00

employer, she had, according to

9:03

John, telephoned her stepdaughter Jodie,

9:06

the 18-year-old with whom Bronwyn had

9:08

argued on the telephone because

9:10

of the fact that Bronwyn and her girls

9:12

had moved back into the house at

9:14

Sandstone Crescent. Jodie's work

9:17

telephone number at the hair salon in

9:19

the Shire in Sydney where she was

9:21

working was typed on the form. I

9:24

spoke to Bronwyn's brother, Andy, about the

9:27

purported telephone call to the hair salon.

9:30

I only wanna know what you clearly remember. The

9:33

missing person report that the

9:35

police filled out after John

9:38

visited Ballina Police says

9:40

that a phone call was

9:43

received in Sydney. It's

9:45

really significant. It's

9:47

saying effectively that Bronwyn

9:51

was alive after

9:53

John has left the house. What

9:56

do you know about this purported

9:58

phone call by Bronwyn? to

10:01

Jodie at the hair salon in

10:03

Sydney. We

10:05

received word through

10:08

John about a

10:10

phone call that came to the salon. On

10:14

the Tuesday, Michelle had

10:16

rung me to say,

10:18

supposedly Bronwyn had

10:20

rung Jodie's salon. And

10:23

I got home and I thought, wow, how weird was

10:25

that? And so I did Michelle's. I

10:27

then left

10:30

and drove down to the salon at Woolworth and

10:33

parked across the road and waited for

10:37

the last client to walk out. And

10:40

I went and knocked on the jaw

10:42

and introduced myself. And

10:45

I said, what's this about

10:48

Bronwyn Winfield supposedly ringing the salon

10:50

today? And the lady at the

10:53

salon said, I

10:55

don't know whether it was

10:57

Bronwyn or not, but

10:59

a female rang the salon

11:01

and said, tell

11:04

Jodie, I'm okay. I'm

11:07

in Queensland and I'm not coming back.

11:11

Who was that woman? I

11:13

believe that person to be Tanya Robertson.

11:17

You thought it was really weird

11:19

that this telephone call had purportedly

11:21

been made by Bronwyn. Why

11:24

did you believe then that that was

11:26

really weird? Michelle had already

11:28

said to me, why

11:31

would Bronwyn ring

11:33

the salon knowing that Tuesday

11:35

was the day that Jodie

11:37

went to TAFE? Jodie

11:40

wasn't even at the salon

11:42

that day. But

11:44

how would Bronwyn know that? She used to

11:46

talk to Jodie all the time. Bronwyn

11:49

knew what day she was

11:51

able to contact Jodie

11:53

or not. You

11:55

said that Tanya Robertson told

11:57

you that she wasn't

12:00

even at the salon. whether or not it

12:02

was Bronwyn's voice. Why would she

12:04

volunteer that to you? To

12:06

tell you the truth, I don't know. She

12:08

just said it was

12:10

a female voice and

12:13

didn't want to confirm that it was Bronwyn.

12:16

Did she know Bronwyn's voice? I

12:20

would believe so. Bronwyn

12:22

could have rung there numerous times. It

12:26

just seems an odd thing for her

12:29

to mention. I'm not sure whether or

12:31

not it was Bronwyn. If the person

12:33

who's calling says, I'm Bronwyn. Why

12:36

would she ring Jodie and

12:39

not ring an immediate member

12:41

of her family to say

12:44

that she was okay? That

12:46

just doesn't make any sense to

12:48

us. And it never did at the time

12:50

and it still doesn't to this day. But

12:54

here's the thing, Andy. You've

12:56

gone in on Tuesday, May 18, you've

12:59

spoken to Tanya. She can't confirm

13:01

whether or not the person who called

13:03

was Bronwyn. You

13:06

don't hear any more about it. Then

13:08

on May 27, so another nine days later,

13:14

the missing person report is made by

13:16

John. And in that report, it's stated

13:18

as a matter of fact that

13:21

it was Bronwyn who made the call. Did

13:24

you walk away from that salon believing

13:26

that a call had been

13:29

made by someone representing herself

13:32

as Bronwyn? Yes, correct,

13:34

yes. She 100% told me

13:36

that a phone call was made to the salon and

13:40

it was a female voice who words to

13:42

me were, I could not

13:44

verify whether it was Bronwyn. Tell

13:47

Jodie I'm in Queensland and

13:49

I'm not coming home. Straight

13:52

away I thought, none of that

13:55

makes sense. Do you know

13:57

now why you didn't yourself go to the

13:59

homicides quite often? and say, I think something

14:01

really serious has gone down here. These

14:04

were just slow, culminating facts

14:06

that made absolutely no sense.

14:10

When you see that missing person

14:13

report and read

14:15

it now, what do

14:17

you believe it's trying to do? I

14:20

believe it's trying to falsify a proof of

14:23

life after the

14:25

Sunday night at the house. Glenn

14:29

Taylor, the detective sergeant who picked

14:31

up the case and started a

14:33

thorough investigation in 1998, asked

14:36

Jodie Winfield about this purported

14:38

call from Bronwyn to the

14:41

salon. These are Jodie's words

14:43

from the police statement Jodie made in 1998,

14:45

but it's not her voice. The

14:50

following Tuesday, 18th of May 1993, was

14:53

my rostered day off work. About

14:55

lunchtime, Michelle, my boss, told me that Bronwyn

14:57

had rung and spoken to Tanya Robertson at

15:00

the salon and said to her, can I

15:02

speak to Jodie? Tanya said, she's

15:04

not here, it's her day off. She

15:07

said that Bronwyn then said, tell her I'm never

15:09

coming back and for her to watch over the

15:11

kids. She then hung up. I

15:14

would have thought that Bronwyn would have rung me at

15:16

home because she knew that Tuesday was my day off.

15:19

Although she could have rung and left a message at

15:21

the salon because we'd been arguing and maybe she didn't

15:23

want to speak to me. I

15:25

told Dad about the phone call and he thought that it

15:27

was just her blowing off hot air. He

15:30

thought that when he went home, she would just turn up.

15:33

Dad doesn't talk about Bronwyn much. He doesn't bring it

15:35

up at all. The only way he'll

15:37

talk about it is if I bring it up. He's

15:40

definite that one day she'll turn up on the

15:42

front doorstep and attempt to take Crystal and Lauren.

15:45

He's positive that she's still alive somewhere

15:47

and will suddenly reappear. When

15:50

Tanya Robertson was questioned by police

15:52

in 1998, she

15:55

had no recollection of receiving a

15:57

telephone call in the salon from

15:59

anyone. calling herself Roman Winfield.

16:02

And Tanya said that she believed she would

16:05

have remembered such a call if it had

16:07

been made. Let's

16:09

go back to the words in the missing

16:11

person report in the Ballina Police Station, dated

16:13

May 27, 1993. Up

16:18

to date, Jonathan has made several inquiries

16:20

with the person of interest's girlfriend and

16:23

associated friends, and it appears that the

16:25

person of interest has not been heard

16:27

of or seen since, except

16:30

for a brief interlude with a

16:32

clairvoyant, David. This

16:34

claim of Bronwyn catching up with

16:36

the tarot card reader after May

16:39

16 is the second assertion by

16:41

John that Bronwyn was alive after

16:44

he left the house and drove to Sydney

16:46

that Sunday night. Jonathan

16:48

approached the clairvoyant and he said that

16:51

he did not keep diaries and vaguely

16:53

could remember the person of interest. Up

16:56

to date, only very few of the

16:58

person of interest's clothing had been taken

17:00

from the house. The

17:03

next sentence in the Police Missing

17:05

Person Report indicates that no withdrawals

17:08

have been made from Bronwyn's account

17:10

with the Commonwealth Bank while she

17:12

has been on her supposed break.

17:16

The report, which is based

17:18

almost entirely on information from

17:20

John, concludes with damaging

17:22

inferences about Bronwyn's stability.

17:25

It appears that the person of interest has

17:28

come from a very deranged family and her

17:30

mother has been treated for psychiatric problems for

17:32

the last 20 years. There

17:35

it is. Bronwyn Joy Winfield

17:38

was labelled by association right

17:40

from the start at Ballina

17:42

Police Station. Nobody

17:44

else in Bronwyn's life had

17:46

the slightest indication that Bronwyn

17:48

was mentally unwell in

17:50

some kind of carbon copy of

17:52

her mother, Barbara. Apparently,

17:55

when the person of interest was 11 years old,

17:58

she had a nervous breakdown. However,

18:00

it is not known whether she is

18:03

suffering from any disorder at this stage

18:05

and has not been treated for associated

18:07

problems known to the husband. You've

18:10

previously heard that Bromman's GP,

18:12

Dr Mitchell, saw Bromman at

18:14

his surgery on Friday, May

18:16

14 because she had sprained

18:18

her left hand. And

18:21

Dr Mitchell had treated Bromman by applying

18:23

a splint. He

18:25

did not notice anything unusual about

18:27

her manner. The

18:29

reference from John Winfield to a

18:32

purported mental health event two decades

18:34

earlier, when Bromman was 11 years

18:37

old, was something I had not

18:39

read or heard about before, in

18:41

all the files and interviews for

18:44

this podcast investigation. Bromman's

18:46

brother Andy Reid told me there

18:48

was no nervous breakdown when Bromman

18:50

was aged 11 or any time

18:52

after. There

18:54

are also references to Bromman's mental

18:57

health or your family's mental health.

19:01

There's a claim there that Bromman's also had

19:03

a mental breakdown or a nervous breakdown when

19:05

she's aged 11. What's

19:08

that about? At no

19:10

time can I ever

19:12

remember through our childhood that

19:14

Bromman was treated for

19:17

any form of mental illness.

19:20

What about through her adulthood? Again

19:23

the same. No, no

19:25

psychologists, no psychiatrists. I

19:28

do not recall Bromman

19:31

ever being treated in any form

19:33

for mental illness. But

19:36

Bromman did have some unhappy

19:38

experiences through her childhood and

19:40

teens. Andy

19:42

tells me that things became

19:44

particularly complicated when their mother,

19:47

Barbara, returned to Australia and

19:49

re-entered their lives. That's

19:52

when we first found out that our

19:55

stepmother actually

19:57

wasn't our real mother. Bronwyn's

20:01

stepmother Jenny clashed with Bronwyn.

20:04

It was strained at times, but

20:08

that was only in her

20:10

later teen years. We

20:13

had a perfectly normal childhood as old family

20:15

partners and I can prove that. We

20:18

used to be always holidaying down in Sussex

20:20

in there. I have

20:22

vivid memories of mum taking us

20:24

into, we used to always go

20:26

into PJ's to the carols by

20:29

candlelight. Mum had a

20:32

daughter in Melissa, had

20:34

a son in me and therefore

20:37

I think we received the better treatment

20:40

in the latter days. And

20:42

you've made a reference a couple of times to

20:44

mum, but

20:46

you're talking there about your

20:49

legal stepmother, aren't you? Correct,

20:53

correct. That's

20:57

the person that raised me. And

20:59

you believed that she was your mother? Yeah.

21:05

Yeah. Until you

21:07

were about nine, Andy? Oh,

21:10

I remember, yeah, I was about ten or so. Yeah,

21:13

I'm sorry. So I'll remind you

21:16

of this. Friends

21:18

of the family and relatives confirmed

21:20

that Bronwyn was excluded at times.

21:23

She went to live with relatives

21:25

including her grandmother, Nana Reed, instead

21:27

of living in the family home.

21:30

It was always in my memory after the

21:33

fact of a

21:35

bit of strain coming into the marriage once

21:38

my real mum, Barbara, was

21:40

introduced into our lives. In

21:44

the weeks before Bronwyn disappeared, she

21:46

wrote in those A4 pages about

21:48

some events in her childhood. She

21:52

couldn't stand me. Went to

21:54

stay with Nana Reed for a while after Pa Reed

21:56

died. Nana Reed and I were

21:59

okay for a while. Well, but she had

22:01

a full and had to be hospitalised. She

22:03

went into a nursing home. I

22:06

met my real mother in the middle of all of this.

22:09

Also met Kim. Spent

22:11

holidays in Tasmania with her and also spent

22:13

weekends in town with her at Wentworth Hotel.

22:17

Left school year 10. Wanted

22:19

to leave home. Hated it. Nowhere

22:23

in the missing person report does

22:25

it say that Bronwyn was an

22:27

exceptionally dedicated mother and

22:29

that it was completely out of character for

22:31

her to leave her children. She

22:34

had never left her children before. The

22:37

report does not say that she had

22:39

commitments. A solicitor's appointment on

22:42

Monday, May 17 to

22:44

talk about her separation from John

22:47

and her plans to get the ball rolling

22:49

on a property settlement. There

22:52

was her work at Eden's takeaway during

22:54

the week. The school

22:56

pickups and drop-offs for the children,

22:58

Lauren and Crystal. Bronwyn

23:01

had not finished moving her things

23:03

back from the rented townhouse in

23:05

Byron Street to the home that

23:07

John had built at Sandstone Crescent

23:09

when she disappeared. She

23:11

wanted to stop paying rent. There

23:14

was a perfectly good home to live in. It

23:16

was empty because John had taken work

23:18

in Sydney. It

23:20

defeated Bronwyn's purpose to leave her things in

23:22

the rental because it meant she would have

23:24

had to keep paying for it. But

23:27

the missing person report had none of

23:29

those details. I've

23:32

been talking to one of Bronwyn's friends,

23:34

Brigitte. They bonded in

23:36

high school and for years afterwards. Brigitte

23:39

made the wedding dress for Bronwyn's

23:42

marriage to John Winfield, but

23:44

nobody was invited. John wanted a

23:46

quiet ceremony in Lennox Head. Brigitte

23:50

has sent me photographs of them as

23:52

young women, including with Crystal as a

23:54

small child. I

23:56

asked Brigitte whether she'd ever seen anything

23:58

that made her wonder why. whether Bronwyn

24:00

had any mental health issues. She

24:03

was a very good friend of mine. We went

24:05

to high school together. After high

24:07

school we spent a lot of time together.

24:09

I was with her when her babies were

24:11

born. I was the person

24:14

she reached out to when she had a lot of

24:16

trouble at home. My family

24:19

put her in her home when she had nowhere to

24:21

go, rent free for

24:23

many months just to get her on

24:25

her feet again. Just

24:27

give her a place for a while until she could sort out

24:29

what she wanted to do. She wanted

24:32

a solid family. This trouble in

24:34

the household was before John. She

24:37

needed to move out of there. The stepmother didn't

24:39

really like her. Do you know why?

24:41

Do you know what that was about? She

24:45

had another daughter to Bronwyn's

24:48

father. I think she

24:50

really loved that one because that was hers and

24:52

Bronwyn was from a previous

24:54

marriage. I

24:57

think she just didn't like Bronwyn. Bronwyn

24:59

was pretty. She was nice looking.

25:01

The father doted on her. I

25:03

was there for her wedding, first wedding,

25:07

second wedding. No one was allowed to go

25:09

to that because John

25:11

whisked her away and only

25:13

had two elderly people as witnesses so

25:15

none of her friends could be there

25:17

for that wedding. I was

25:21

concerned because while

25:23

I was with her, she was

25:25

always a happy-go-lucky girl. We used to

25:27

go out there and sing together and

25:29

parties. She was a

25:32

lovely person. Then when John came

25:34

into the picture, she

25:36

seemed to be a little bit more careful

25:39

of what she spoke

25:41

about. She just looked

25:44

a little bit uneasy, not like

25:46

the normal happy Bronwyn I used to

25:49

always witness. She said to

25:51

me that she didn't really go out

25:53

very much because she used to check

25:55

how much petrol she'd use to try

25:57

and work out where she'd been. I

26:00

found that very disturbing. She

26:03

wanted to have a family unit.

26:07

She wanted a children type father. She wanted

26:09

a happy life. So

26:12

I guess that's why she put up with it. But

26:14

I didn't spend a lot of time because

26:17

he didn't like her to be around her

26:20

old friends. I didn't

26:22

want to make any trouble. I

26:24

was reading in the paper that

26:27

John was trying to say that

26:29

she had a mental issue.

26:33

Now, that is by

26:35

far really, really

26:37

wrong. I

26:39

never saw her with a mental problem. I never

26:42

seen her act like she had a mental problem.

26:45

What do you think of the suggestion

26:47

that Bronwyn wanted to take a break

26:50

and then just decide to stay away

26:52

from her kids and home and family?

26:54

Never, never, never, never. She

26:57

loved her kids. After

27:23

July, the Ballina police file for the

27:25

1993 investigation into

27:28

the fate of missing mother of two,

27:30

Bronwyn Winfield goes eerily quiet for a

27:32

couple of months. It

27:35

seems there was no investigative

27:37

activity until September 2,

27:39

1993, when

27:42

a two page police internal report was

27:44

filed. And there's also

27:46

that terrible one from a disk. I'll show

27:48

you that. This is

27:50

how it starts. This

27:52

date spoke to the cousin of the

27:55

missing person, Megan Reed. We

27:57

talked about it in one of my first meetings.

27:59

with Megan at her home in Sydney.

28:03

Meg, I'm just going to ask you

28:05

to clearly and

28:08

slowly read that statement.

28:11

Okay. So it's New South

28:13

Wales Police State Intelligence Network

28:16

Information Report, named

28:18

GJ Disgun Rank Detective Sergeant

28:20

Location Ballina. This

28:23

is not a signed statement by Megan

28:25

Reed. No signed statements

28:27

were taken by police in 1993. It

28:32

is a document based on a

28:34

telephone conversation between Detective Graham Disgun

28:36

and a woman who must have

28:38

given him a name, Megan Reed.

28:41

But Megan insists that it was not

28:43

her on the telephone to the police

28:45

officer in Ballina. This

28:48

date spoke to the cousin of

28:50

the missing person, Megan Reed. Megan

28:53

stated that she had

28:55

twice spoken to the MP, missing

28:58

person, I believe, only days

29:01

before her disappearance and only that

29:03

she was able to recognise her

29:05

voice. She would not have

29:07

believed that in fact it was Bronwyn. Megan

29:10

stated that the missing person was

29:12

talking a lot of rubbish, but

29:14

did not seem to be affected

29:16

by drugs or alcohol. Statements

29:18

were made like, you will

29:21

all pay, none of

29:23

you will know what is happening. And

29:25

other statements that meant nothing to Megan. Megan

29:28

stated that she has no

29:31

fears about John Winfield being

29:33

involved in anything untoward so

29:36

far as his wife's disappearance

29:38

is concerned. In the

29:40

past, she has questioned Bronwyn

29:43

over her attitude and lies

29:45

about John. And Bronwyn

29:47

admitted that she was seeking attention.

29:50

She believes that John is a

29:52

great father and carer of the

29:54

two children involved in the marriage

29:56

and will do nothing to upset

29:59

the children. Megan also

30:01

believes that in the past, Bronwyn

30:03

was a user of cannabis and

30:06

described her as a flower child,

30:08

believing that she may well be

30:10

living on a commune somewhere. She

30:13

also had a passion for money and

30:15

was on the lookout for a rich

30:17

male to care for her if the

30:19

opportunity arose. Megan

30:22

stated that Bronwyn has always been upset

30:25

over the death of her father some

30:27

years ago and by the fact that

30:29

she was luckless in his estate because

30:32

he was a bankrupt at the time

30:34

of his death and all

30:36

monies went to paying outstanding debts.

30:39

Bronwyn, until just prior to

30:41

her disappearance, has been supported

30:44

for money from Megan's father,

30:48

Bronwyn's uncle. However, he

30:50

has declined to continue in that

30:52

vein and Bronwyn was

30:54

somewhat upset about that. Megan

30:57

also reiterated the

31:00

fact that her mother did exactly the

31:02

same thing some years ago and believes

31:04

that one day she will walk back

31:06

into the family home as if nothing

31:08

happened due to her state of mind

31:11

at the time of the disappearance. Okay,

31:15

and what do you say

31:17

about this statement? Absolute bullshit,

31:19

I never ever would

31:21

say that. I mean, my father never gave

31:23

her a cent for starters, never.

31:27

He wouldn't, never, never, wouldn't give

31:29

anyone money, Dad. And John

31:32

came up with the idea, told me

31:34

that she was at the age of

31:36

Aquarius commune. This is John's words. Megan

31:40

believes that another unknown woman

31:42

who knew that Detective Sergeant

31:45

Graham Diskin was investigating Bronwyn's

31:47

disappearance. Has rung up and said

31:49

that she's me. I really

31:51

do, that's the only way. It

31:54

is word for word stuff that John said

31:56

to me and to my

31:58

parents. So that's what he's saying.

32:01

Now, it's just so

32:04

far from true. I

32:06

mean, I don't understand this at

32:08

all. I didn't even know it existed until

32:11

recently. And I'm very

32:13

upset about it because I didn't do

32:15

it. Now, the coroner at the

32:18

Coronaville Inquest tried to subpoena

32:20

Sergeant Diskin. But

32:22

unfortunately, he went off

32:25

on medical stress leave

32:27

or something. And he had

32:30

medical exemption from being subpoenaed

32:33

in court. OK,

32:36

let's try and step through parts of this

32:38

statement just to work out whether

32:41

that theory that someone misrepresenting

32:44

themselves as you has

32:46

actually been behind this.

32:49

The thing is about her father being a bankrupt.

32:52

Well, that's true. But

32:54

how would he know that? It has to

32:56

come from an informed member of the family.

33:00

Yes, I agree with you. Well,

33:02

they're just so far from the truth, though. Brohman

33:05

was a very glamorous woman.

33:08

She would never go to a

33:10

commune. That's just ridiculous. As

33:13

if I'd say that, she had a Mensa

33:15

IQ. I mean, the girl was as sharp

33:17

as Art Tack. Why do you

33:19

say she had a Mensa IQ? Because my

33:21

mother told me that. She had her IQ

33:23

taken. Maddie, can you

33:25

go back to that intelligence report, please? And

33:28

just tell me the phone number that he lists. OK.

33:38

Maddie Walsh read the rest of the phone

33:40

number as it existed in 1993. It's

33:45

noted here in handwriting it says

33:48

Megan, cousin. Yeah, I did have that

33:50

number. Yeah. Just we changed

33:52

providers and removed. Yeah, so whoever

33:55

has contacted Diskin has given your

33:58

phone number. Yes, that's correct. But

34:00

you are not the informant for

34:02

this. Absolutely not. Yeah. I

34:04

mean, I'd have to have completely gone

34:07

stark, rainy, mad. If you

34:09

spoke to any single person that I

34:11

know, they would be

34:13

gobsmacked because I mean, it's the

34:15

opposite to what I've always maintained.

34:19

I mean, I never even spoke to him. I

34:22

tried to talk to Disbin and he wouldn't take my

34:24

calls. And he said to

34:26

me that that was because Michelle

34:28

and Andrew were the only ones, that they were

34:30

the representatives of the Reid family that

34:33

he would talk to. So do

34:35

you believe that you spoke to him

34:37

just on one or two occasions? I don't even know if

34:40

I ever spoke to him. But

34:42

didn't he tell you that he couldn't

34:44

talk to you because Andrew... Well, somebody told me that.

34:47

I don't know if it was actually him. I just

34:49

rang up asking to speak to him. Right.

34:52

I don't know who it was who answered

34:54

the phone. And when was

34:56

the first time a statement was taken from

34:59

you? All

35:02

right. So five years after that intelligence

35:04

report. 1998

35:07

was the first time any statements were taken.

35:11

Whoever it was on the

35:13

telephone to Detective Disbin, she

35:15

influenced investigations by police in

35:17

1993. A

35:20

purported family member declaring that John

35:22

would not have done anything wrong

35:25

and that Bronwyn was, strangely,

35:27

emulating the disappearing act of

35:29

her own mother, Barbara, aligned

35:32

neatly with the path the police

35:34

were already on. It's

35:37

impossible to discover now the true

35:39

origin of the information noted in

35:42

the internal police document. And

35:44

it's also complicated because some family

35:46

members have fallen out with each

35:48

other. Madison Walsh

35:51

is aware of these difficulties and

35:53

she helps me navigate through them.

35:56

In your extended family, there

35:58

are some well-intentioned people. about this and

36:00

family tension. Yeah, 100%. And

36:03

it's really frustrating because sometimes it gets the

36:06

better of them. And it's

36:08

hard to mellow it

36:10

out. It's a lot of strong opinions, a

36:13

lot of confident people. And it's

36:16

hard. It's really hard. So I'm trying

36:18

to take a kind

36:21

of unbiased step

36:24

back and just kind of

36:26

observe what's in front of me. Megan

36:29

Reed hasn't seen eye to eye

36:31

with her cousin, Andy Reed's wife,

36:34

Michelle, for a long time. We

36:37

used to see them. We'd have the

36:39

Reed family Christmas on Boxing Day every

36:41

year. She married him. That was

36:43

it. We didn't see him. Because

36:46

Andrew and I had not been on speaking terms for

36:49

years because of his wife getting interfering and

36:51

telling the police not to talk to me

36:53

and all the rest of it. Now

36:56

he and I are really

36:58

good. Megan

37:00

and Kim Marshall, Bronwyn's half-sister,

37:02

haven't known each other long.

37:05

Kim came to stay at Megan's place. Kim

37:09

is off on this clairvoyant

37:11

route. She went on

37:13

and on about it. But now we're getting along

37:15

like a house on fire. Andy

37:18

Reed is candid about ups and

37:21

downs. Andy also

37:23

points out important differences between

37:25

his mother Barbara's mental health

37:28

and her absence from his life and

37:30

his sister Bronwyn's 1993 disappearance.

37:34

Barbara went overseas with her mother,

37:36

leaving Andy and Bronwyn with their

37:39

father for almost a decade. So

37:41

it was never as if Barbara

37:44

ever disappeared and no one knew

37:46

where she was. That's when

37:48

she went to Europe, went to London, and stayed in

37:50

London and traveled around for a little while and that,

37:52

yeah. And then came back

37:55

and then obviously settled in Hibert.

37:58

I take your point that. The context

38:01

is very different. Why

38:03

then would people

38:06

talking to the police in 1993, when

38:11

Broman disappears, even

38:13

raise your mother's leaving?

38:17

Why was it even raised and

38:19

became part of police evidence

38:22

if it was irrelevant? John

38:24

had all the first contact with police. John

38:27

had all the direction of how the

38:29

case was handled, what information went to

38:31

the police originally. I

38:34

didn't have any jurisdiction. John

38:36

had jurisdiction over the case, which is,

38:39

hence why it took me so long to get

38:41

control and then the case didn't

38:43

properly reviewed and

38:45

investigated correctly without

38:48

all the stumbling blocks constantly being put in front

38:50

of it. So your sense of it is that

38:53

Diskin hears from the husband,

38:56

who should have been a person of interest,

38:59

that his wife's mother did a

39:01

disappearing act and that puts

39:04

the idea into Diskin's mind and

39:06

then he follows up with you and Michelle

39:09

and Megan and others asking

39:12

questions about your mum's disappearance.

39:15

Is that how you see it? That's

39:17

the way I see it, yes. Yes,

39:20

it was never ever. Michelle's

39:22

belief. The problem would

39:24

walk away from those two girls. And

39:29

Megan, I mean, she wouldn't

39:31

have done anything deliberately detrimental.

39:34

She probably thought she was helping. Yeah,

39:37

correct. I actually instructed

39:39

the police not to talk

39:41

to her anymore. Megan's always

39:43

wanted to know who that person was. Why

39:45

did the police stop talking tribute? Andy

39:49

told me that he made this decision

39:51

after he and Michelle were given some

39:53

feedback by the Detective Sergeant Graham Diskin

39:56

in 1993. And

39:59

he said to me, And every time I

40:01

asked this fella a question, he has an

40:04

answer, it's as if he's prepared. Yeah,

40:07

we thought, he's gotta be away, how does he

40:09

know? How is he so prepared to answer things

40:11

all the time? Which

40:13

led to me to make some phone

40:15

calls and start chasing up what was

40:18

going on. And then that's when I

40:20

found out that John had

40:22

been in constant contact with Megan. So

40:25

I put two and two together and

40:27

thought, well, this guy's clever enough to

40:29

be picking her brain for

40:31

whatever the family's thinking, which

40:34

Megan sort of now to this day

40:36

describes as, oh yes, but you've gotta

40:39

keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer

40:41

to her. So now hurry up. Here's

40:44

Megan again. I'm the

40:46

only one that remained in contact with him after

40:49

Roman's disappearance. And my reasoning

40:51

being was that you keep

40:53

your enemies closer than your friends kind of thing

40:56

to find out. So I could find out what was going

40:58

on. And I continued

41:00

to be in contact with him virtually

41:02

daily up until October, 1994. I

41:06

had an argument with Andrew just recently about

41:09

this whole thing. It was Michelle in particular, doesn't

41:11

like us. And she has nothing to do with

41:13

us. And she told the police not to have

41:16

anything to do with myself. Andrew

41:18

was the point of contact for

41:21

the police. And they never listened

41:23

to me. And Andrew apparently told them that

41:26

I have ADHD, which is a mental case

41:28

not to listen to me. And

41:30

which is absolute rubbish because I am

41:33

quite the opposite. I'm very intelligent. I

41:35

know what I'm saying. I

41:37

am hyperactive and I haven't had my medication

41:39

yet. So I'm probably going a million miles

41:41

an hour. But the thing is I have

41:43

a photographic memory of a brilliant memory. I

41:46

can remember things like yesterday. She

41:49

thought that she was doing

41:51

the right thing, but in the end I

41:53

perceive that she was just being

41:55

bled for every bit of information or any

41:57

thought that the family was thinking. And

42:00

that gave him a means and a way to

42:02

be able to explain things the way constantly. I

42:05

think that was quite detrimental to the

42:07

early investigation. Tim

42:10

Marshall spent a lot of time with

42:12

her mother, Barbara. Tim,

42:14

I wanted to talk to you

42:16

about Barbara, your mother's mental health

42:19

issues. Are you OK talking

42:21

to me about that? It

42:23

all starts with mum being a

42:26

nurse. She was

42:28

a very talented nurse. Mum

42:31

very much supported Philip becoming a teacher

42:34

and heading towards becoming a principal.

42:37

And so she paid for a lot

42:39

of the set up costs for their

42:41

marriage and their home life. And

42:45

she naturally then went on

42:47

to have Bronwyn. The

42:50

culture back in those days was that men

42:52

naturally went to the pub or

42:54

they had a few drinks after work. As

42:58

Bronwyn moved from being a

43:00

baby to a toddler, Philip was

43:03

not at home as much. And

43:05

then she became pregnant with Andrew. Philip

43:09

used to be absent from the home a lot. And

43:11

so mum would often catch him

43:13

coming home late at night watering the

43:15

lettuces in the garden. And she'd have

43:18

to say, come inside Philip. And

43:21

then other night she'd have to go and get him down from

43:23

the pub. So mum was feeling

43:25

a strain in her marriage. Andrew

43:28

was then birthed and then mum

43:30

felt she had developed postnatal depression

43:33

after having Andrew. Whether

43:35

she was also feeling depressed

43:37

and unsupported being the

43:40

mother of two small children. Mum

43:43

had multiple crisis situations

43:45

going on in her

43:47

life. The birth of

43:49

her second child, a husband

43:52

that was estranging himself from the

43:54

marriage and then her father died.

43:57

And later on in life it's been

43:59

explained. to her that because she had

44:01

so many competing crises

44:04

going on that's when her

44:06

mental health became compromised and

44:08

she probably had what they

44:10

described as a breakdown. But

44:13

Philip in consultation with his

44:16

parents it had

44:18

been expressed that no you must have your

44:20

wife back with you, you must get your

44:22

family house in order and so

44:25

Philip actually said no you can only have

44:27

a short time away and

44:29

mum disagreed with that. He

44:32

actually entered the house and

44:34

he collected Andrew from

44:37

the crib, left the property with

44:39

Andrew against mum's

44:41

permission. He

44:43

already had Bronwyn staying with him and

44:46

the words that have always remained in my

44:48

head from the stories that

44:51

were explained was that the lawyer

44:53

advised that mum would most likely

44:55

be judged as an unfit mother

44:59

due to the opinions of the

45:01

Reid family and that she perhaps

45:03

should actually not worry about contesting

45:05

custody because it would be a

45:07

horrible case to have to go

45:09

and attend court to go through

45:11

and it might be better if

45:13

she just looks after her mother

45:16

and perhaps go is suggested on

45:18

a overseas travelling trip for a

45:20

period of time to recover and

45:23

recuperate and then return to Australia

45:26

and then look at maybe

45:28

perhaps making connections with

45:30

her children and building a new life. So

45:34

much pressure in a woman's

45:36

life and she thought

45:38

she was making a sound decision based

45:41

on the advice that she had

45:43

been given and the you probably

45:45

say the lack of support. And

45:48

the diagnosis in 1971 was that

45:51

your mother had postnatal depression

45:55

and something else in

45:58

the occurrences of schizophrenia. more

46:01

specifically categorized as schizoaffective

46:04

disorder. I

46:07

can cite a statement from

46:09

her long life psychiatrist. Mum

46:14

had actually burnt out. Headly.

46:20

I don't know if you heard, we pause for

46:23

a minute because someone's caught their finger in

46:25

a blender. Oh dear. It's

46:28

not major, but I will have to go

46:30

and deal with that. Yes, let's talk

46:32

later. Bye. Bye. In

46:36

1993, in her writings in the A4 notepad, Bronwyn

46:40

reflected on falling in love with John

46:42

in the mid 1980s

46:44

when they lived in Crinola in the Shire

46:47

and she was raising Crystal on her own.

46:50

Bronwyn had divorced her husband,

46:52

Gary Beard, and Bronwyn

46:55

was no longer in a relationship

46:57

with Crystal's father, Mark Davis. John

47:00

Winfield had divorced two wives and he

47:02

had one daughter, Jodi. There's

47:05

a sentence in Bronwyn's notepad which

47:07

perhaps speaks volumes. When

47:10

John came on the scene, Bronwyn wrote,

47:12

he was a good listener and they

47:14

clicked. He was, so it

47:17

seemed honest, trustworthy, and didn't mind the

47:20

fact that I had Crystal. And

47:22

he was wonderful to both of us. I

47:25

was in love with him and would have done anything

47:27

for him. We talked and I

47:29

felt I had made a friend. Although for

47:31

some reason, I never really trusted him. So

47:33

never felt able to disclose my full family

47:35

history to him. When

47:38

I telephoned Kim Marshall back, she

47:40

sounded much happier. Kim,

47:43

hi. I can hear the

47:45

birds. Oh, okay, that's good. First

47:48

of all, how's your child with the blended

47:50

finger? It wasn't on a major

47:52

drama, just a little bit of blood, but it hurt.

47:55

Okay, well, there's a relation. I

47:57

did my job. We

48:00

picked up where we had left off. Kim

48:03

was loyally determined to defend her

48:05

mother, Barbara. The woman,

48:07

Bronwyn, was said to have imitated

48:09

with a disappearance. In

48:12

an earlier episode, you heard

48:14

Bronwyn's uncle John and Aunty

48:16

Leah describing their recollections of

48:18

Barbara. Kim has

48:20

also talked to John and Leah

48:23

about Kim and Bronwyn's mother and

48:25

the major challenges that she faced

48:27

in the 1960s. Things

48:29

were very different back then. When

48:32

I spoke to John and Leah,

48:35

they had a full belief

48:38

that mum abandoned Andrew

48:41

and Bronwyn, and they said

48:43

that to me when I was there in Sydney last

48:45

year. I wore

48:47

that because I actually was very

48:49

familiar with that labelling. That

48:52

is definitely not what my

48:54

mother did because my mother

48:56

did try to go for

48:58

custody. Totally understand. This is why

49:00

I'm talking to you and Aunty. In

49:05

an earlier telephone conversation with

49:07

Kim, she talked about Bronwyn

49:09

having written letters in which

49:11

she described her concerns about

49:13

her safety. Because she wrote some

49:16

pretty intensive information in those letters to

49:18

my mum. What

49:21

a shame that you don't have copies of them. Bronwyn

49:24

was scared for her life. She wrote that in a

49:26

sentence in one of the letters. That's

49:30

the distinct memory, but see that can only

49:32

be now said as he say. The

49:35

one thing that I find a

49:37

little confusing, if

49:40

Bronwyn had written that to your mum, you

49:42

and your mum would have been suspicious

49:45

from the day that

49:48

Bronwyn disappeared. One

49:51

thing that I'm finding

49:53

a bit contradictory is that people

49:56

like Megan, for example, say

49:58

that they were suspicious. immediately.

50:00

Right. In the police

50:03

notes from 93 and

50:06

in the statements of some

50:08

of these people and in

50:10

their actions in having ongoing

50:12

contact with John, it's not

50:15

really obvious that they

50:18

would have been expecting John of

50:20

foul play at that time otherwise

50:22

why would they have maintained the

50:24

connection to him and stayed with

50:26

him and I'm just trying to

50:28

work out whether people

50:31

now say I was suspicious from the

50:33

beginning but were they really

50:35

suspicious from the beginning and

50:37

saying to the police this guy

50:40

we suspect has murdered Bronwyn. That's

50:44

very relevant. We were telling

50:46

the police that we were

50:49

frightened and suspicious that something

50:51

was going on and there

50:54

was a roadblock at every point because

50:56

somehow it was

50:59

always dismissed and kept

51:01

as that Bronwyn had gone away. The

51:04

narrative of Bronwyn being crazy

51:06

like her mother, John's

51:08

version of that and that ran

51:11

from the beginning and it just

51:13

kept a hold on everything. So

51:15

we were always saying but you're

51:18

not writing down what we're actually thinking

51:20

or saying. The phone call that

51:22

I made that is totally

51:24

out of context and it's incorrect.

51:27

So Kim back in 93 the

51:30

detective, Diskin, according

51:32

to one of his memo

51:35

is one of his police intelligence notes

51:38

he spoke to your mum,

51:40

Bronwyn's mum, in June of

51:42

1993 and and

51:45

according to this note Barbara

51:47

says to him she's

51:49

probably just run off I'm not worried about her

51:52

she'll come back she'll just turn up. Yeah

51:55

and I've read those. Do

51:57

you think that could have been your mum's state of

51:59

mind? that time? No

52:02

I believe that that's Andrew and Michelle

52:05

giving mum the only lead

52:07

for mum to actually go

52:10

on and my mum was

52:12

a very, what would you

52:14

say, non-interfering woman

52:17

and wanted to do

52:19

anything to appease Andrew and if

52:22

Andrew said we won't panic at this

52:24

time or we won't do this or

52:26

we won't do that mum followed that

52:28

lead because that was the

52:31

only link that mum had. Mum

52:33

was also made aware that her

52:36

diagnosis and

52:39

myself being the daughter

52:41

were going to be always looked

52:43

upon as unreliable people. We

52:46

were told that early on and we were to be kept

52:48

out of everything. Do you

52:50

believe that your mother

52:52

probably did say that in June 1993?

52:57

Yep correct, yep because we were

52:59

following Andrew's lead. I

53:02

think Andrew was getting

53:04

misled and because

53:07

he had pushed John so hard

53:10

to go to the police I

53:13

think everything was really fragile. He

53:15

was bewildered, what will I do, what path

53:17

will I take, will I keep John on

53:19

side? Everyone was trying

53:21

to be on side with John to

53:24

get as much information so as Megan

53:26

always likes to say keep

53:29

your enemies close, play the game. It's

53:32

obvious that in the early

53:34

stages the police are

53:37

not deeply suspicious, they're

53:39

coming to a view that

53:42

Bromwin has left voluntarily and

53:45

is a missing person not a murder

53:47

victim. Correct. Who was promoting

53:49

the view? Family

53:52

did promote it, they

53:54

came in line with Timby and Diskin

53:56

and kept running with it. I believe

54:00

because none of us had had

54:02

any experience, as is quite common

54:04

with the police or anything like

54:06

this. We were all in

54:08

what you call a fawning mode. You

54:10

know how you can fight or fawn?

54:15

I believe everybody was fawning. So

54:20

we didn't know how hard to push.

54:24

We didn't know how to offend the

54:26

police. We didn't know how to go

54:29

against John. Nobody

54:31

in the family then, from what

54:34

you're saying, felt comfortable getting

54:36

on the front foot and saying, it

54:38

looks like foul play. Do your jobs.

54:40

Treat this as a murder investigation, not

54:43

missing person. Kim

54:45

raised with me the internal

54:47

police report, which attributes to

54:50

Megan Reed some disparaging information.

54:53

You heard about it earlier in the

54:55

episode when Megan denied being the informant.

54:59

That Bronwyn's off her head, Bronwyn's

55:01

crazy like her mother, and

55:04

it sets the tone again. Do you

55:06

believe that somebody falsely misrepresenting

55:09

herself as Megan?

55:12

My word, correct. I

55:14

don't think Megan's mind is

55:17

that confusing. She would never, ever

55:19

say that. You

55:22

heard that Megan was in regular

55:24

telephone contact with John

55:26

for months following Bronwyn's disappearance in May

55:28

1993. Megan

55:31

has strong views about attempts to

55:33

link what happened then and the

55:36

circumstances surrounding what had happened to

55:38

Bronwyn's mother, Barbara, when Bronwyn was

55:40

just a two-year-old. I

55:42

knew that Bronwyn wasn't anything like her

55:45

mother. When Bronwyn actually

55:47

did meet Barbara, she went

55:49

down to Tasmania and moved in with them for a

55:51

little while, a very short while. She would ring me

55:53

up and she said, Mum's talking to the pop plant.

55:56

She thinks it's Dad. She said, I'm

55:58

not kidding. Barbara's a big brother. disappearance.

56:01

Yes, John used that. He

56:04

told all of us, just like

56:06

a mother, he tried to convince

56:08

my ex-husband and I for

56:11

the get-go that she'd lost her mind.

56:13

He thought everyone would buy that. Do

56:16

you think that it was a persuasive

56:18

story at the time? No,

56:21

not to me it wasn't. And

56:24

also when he went back to Lenox,

56:26

he went in her flat and he

56:28

told me he found empty bottles of

56:30

alcohol and empty packets of Valium hidden

56:32

behind a cupboard, which I

56:34

find very hard to believe. But also how the

56:36

hell did he get into that apartment without her

56:39

key? His words to me

56:41

were that she was only gone for a few days.

56:43

He was not going to report her as

56:46

a missing person until Andrew

56:48

said he would otherwise. I would

56:51

ring them up the police and they said that there's

56:53

nothing illegal about being a missing

56:56

person. That's what they

56:58

said. That's what they told us. And

57:00

we pushed and pushed. I know Andrew did

57:02

too. I knew something

57:04

was wrong. I

57:28

can see from the police brief

57:31

of evidence produced by the then

57:33

Detective Sergeant Glen Taylor that dozens

57:35

of statements were obtained by him

57:37

and fellow Detective Wayne Temby. But

57:40

these statements are all dated from the second half

57:42

of 1998, a full five years after Bronwyn

57:47

disappeared. It

57:49

is remarkable that when a mother

57:51

of two vanishes, no statements are

57:53

taken from anyone when detectives Graham

57:55

Diskin and his then junior understudy

57:57

Wayne Temby get the missing report

58:00

from John Winfield in late May

58:02

1993. Some of the 1998 statements

58:04

are illuminating. In

58:10

episode 4 you heard a voice

58:12

actor read extracts from the statements

58:14

by John's brother Peter Winfield and

58:16

his wife Louise. They

58:18

were recalling John's decision to fly

58:21

back to Ballina on a Sunday

58:23

evening May 16 1993 because John

58:25

had become aware that Bronwyn and

58:27

the girls were back in the

58:30

house. Now

58:32

you are going to hear what Peter

58:34

and Louise Winfield recalled from the events

58:36

soon after that visit when John was

58:39

the last person to see Bronwyn. I've

58:42

tried to remember but I just don't recall what

58:44

John said about coming to Sydney with the children.

58:47

He must have offered some explanation of why

58:50

Bronwyn wasn't with him but

58:52

what that was I don't know. I

58:54

became aware that John did go to Lennox

58:57

Head. My memory of the

58:59

following events are very vague but I recall

59:01

John telling us that he and Bronwyn had

59:03

a fight and that Bronwyn had walked out.

59:06

The next thing I recall was John going back

59:09

to Lennox Head after he rang to say that

59:11

he had gone to police to report Bronwyn missing.

59:14

I recall during a later telephone conversation John

59:16

mentioned that he thought Bronwyn had been back

59:19

to the house after he had reported her

59:21

missing. I don't recall

59:23

the reasons why he came to that belief. The

59:26

only other thing that I remember around that

59:28

time was when I spoke to John on

59:31

the telephone and he mentioned that the police

59:33

were investigating Bronwyn's disappearance and there

59:35

was mention of a clairvoyant. I'm

59:38

not sure when this phone call was but it

59:40

was within the early time after Bronwyn had gone

59:42

missing. Over the

59:44

last five years I have had no contact

59:46

with Bronwyn and have not received

59:48

any information about her. In

59:51

the June July school holidays in 1993 John and the children had

59:53

returned to Sydney and stayed at our house for a couple of

59:55

weeks. John informed us that he was missing. had

1:00:00

not seen Bronwyn and that she had not

1:00:02

returned to Lennox's head. We

1:00:04

immediately started to worry about Bronwyn's wellbeing

1:00:06

and when and if she would return.

1:00:08

While John was working, I minded Crystal

1:00:11

and Lauren for him. I

1:00:13

noticed that Crystal was fairly unaffected by

1:00:15

her mother's disappearance, although I knew she

1:00:17

was feeling pain. Lauren was

1:00:19

showing signs that she was affected by what had

1:00:21

happened. Glenn

1:00:23

Webster's name will be familiar. You

1:00:26

heard a voice actor for Glenn in

1:00:29

episode 4 describing how John had been

1:00:31

helping build a house for Glenn and

1:00:33

his wife in the Shire, in Sydney,

1:00:36

until John left without warning to fly

1:00:38

to Ballina on Sunday, May 16. That's

1:00:42

what Glenn put in his 1998 statement.

1:00:46

Now here's a little more from that

1:00:48

same statement. I

1:00:50

don't recall John being any different when he came back

1:00:52

with the girls, it's just too long to remember now.

1:00:54

I found out through

1:00:56

a mate of mine named David Baxter who

1:00:59

lives near Ballina that John's wife Bronwyn

1:01:01

had gone missing. I don't recall John Winfield

1:01:03

ever mentioning that his wife had gone missing.

1:01:06

Since 1993 I have been in

1:01:08

contact with John Winfield about every

1:01:10

year, 3-6 months. I

1:01:13

don't recollect John ever mentioning anything about

1:01:15

Bronwyn to me on the telephone. Since

1:01:18

1993 John has done some other work for

1:01:20

me in Sydney. Again

1:01:22

there was no mention of Bronwyn but he did tell

1:01:24

me that Crystal was staying with some friends in the

1:01:26

Ballina area. Ian

1:01:29

Glueys, otherwise known as Scruffy the

1:01:31

Concrete, spoke in an earlier episode.

1:01:34

You heard Scruffy

1:01:36

recalling his observations of John and

1:01:38

Ian shared his concerns for Bronwyn

1:01:40

after she had disclosed her plans

1:01:42

to move back into the house

1:01:45

at Sandstone Crescent. Here's

1:01:47

Scruffy again. The scuttlebutt

1:01:49

was going around town and you seen Bronwyn? No, if I

1:01:51

could have not seen him, you could have knocked me down

1:01:53

with a feather when he appeared at the back door. Scruffy

1:01:57

said that after John had returned to

1:02:00

Linux head and the two girls, Crystal

1:02:02

and Lauren, were back in their local

1:02:04

school. John dropped around to Scruffy's house.

1:02:07

John was returning some building equipment which

1:02:10

he had borrowed from Scruffy. He's

1:02:13

gone, I've just brought your gear back. What do I

1:02:15

owe you for it? I

1:02:18

said, I'd just like

1:02:20

to fucking find out about

1:02:23

Brommon. And

1:02:25

he said, I know what everyone's saying about me. And he

1:02:27

said, the first person that says it publicly, I'm

1:02:30

going to sue for defamation. I

1:02:32

said, well, you're going to have to fucking sue me because fucking

1:02:35

I know you're responsible for her death. I

1:02:38

said, all I want to know is where you buried her. That's

1:02:42

what I said to him standing on the step looking at him.

1:02:45

She was standing there gobsmacked. Did

1:02:48

he sue you for defamation? No, no. Last

1:02:50

time we had a simple word, everyone

1:02:53

was sort of going, well, where's Brommon

1:02:55

gone? When you

1:02:57

made that comment to John, you

1:02:59

know, where's her body? Yeah.

1:03:02

You had to be pretty confident

1:03:04

about what had happened to her, right? Why

1:03:07

do you think you didn't go to the

1:03:09

police yourself? Because

1:03:12

basically, I know what he

1:03:14

said, right? When I

1:03:16

fucking heard that he

1:03:18

hadn't started

1:03:21

the car when he took the kids away,

1:03:23

he glided down the hill past Murray's place

1:03:25

and then started when it got down around

1:03:27

the bottom. This is the

1:03:30

story that was going around town that he'd

1:03:32

said that some car pulled up

1:03:34

at the front. She's gone out and got

1:03:37

into the car leaving her fucking makeup bag

1:03:39

at home or wherever. And

1:03:41

then he's got the kids

1:03:43

into the car. She

1:03:45

wouldn't answer the door unless she had makeup

1:03:48

on and she wouldn't go down the

1:03:50

street unless she had the cosmetic bag with her.

1:03:54

She had to make a bag from hell. She had everything in

1:03:56

the place. Why, when it's so obvious to you, is it not

1:03:58

obvious to the local police? Well,

1:04:01

she wouldn't leave the kids, ever. She

1:04:06

wouldn't die before she left the kids. Scruffy

1:04:10

recalled another occasion when John and Bronwyn

1:04:12

were still living together, some

1:04:15

months before her disappearance. It

1:04:18

alerted him to John's attitude about

1:04:20

men around John's wife. Scruffy

1:04:23

had driven to the house in Sandstone Crescent to pick John

1:04:25

up on their way to a building site one early morning.

1:04:29

I knocked on the door to

1:04:31

get him, and she

1:04:35

opened the door about as far, and I was

1:04:37

quite friendly with her, and she was quite friendly

1:04:39

with my missus. She

1:04:42

said, oh, someone else has picked him up. When

1:04:46

Scruffy arrived at the job site, he mentioned

1:04:48

his wasted trip to John. I

1:04:51

was annoyed because I had to drive up

1:04:53

to his place to pick him up to say he was a man. I said,

1:04:55

yeah, Bronwyn told me that you've been picked up

1:04:57

by whoever. And he said,

1:04:59

what was she wearing? And I said, could have

1:05:02

been a hishen bag for all I saw of her. I

1:05:05

only saw this much of her face through the

1:05:07

crack in the door, and

1:05:10

that's not the sort of question you'd ask someone when

1:05:12

you just said, yeah, I meant the house to pick

1:05:14

you up, and Bronwyn told me that someone else had

1:05:16

picked you up to immediately go,

1:05:18

what was she wearing? What

1:05:21

was she supposed to be fucking wearing? So,

1:05:24

from you go, well, that's a strange

1:05:26

fucking, you know, where you're coming

1:05:28

from. So,

1:05:31

what did you take from that, that he was

1:05:33

suspicious you were staring at her, or that she

1:05:35

was seeing someone else? Well, no, no. It

1:05:38

was the fact that

1:05:40

I might have seen her with a 90 on. I

1:05:44

asked Scruffy about the notoriety of

1:05:46

Bronwyn's disappearance in 1993 and now.

1:05:52

Everyone that was here and

1:05:54

around the place, they all know about it, and

1:05:57

their disappearance of Bronwyn. who

1:06:00

was not

1:06:02

hibernating somewhere, the

1:06:04

word got out that the whole town knew about it. And

1:06:07

then we heard stories that Bromman's

1:06:10

mother was also... We

1:06:12

heard stories stating that

1:06:15

Bromman had issues as far as the mental

1:06:17

issues and stuff which could come filtered down

1:06:19

from John. Then John was

1:06:21

accusing her of having an affair. Although

1:06:24

Scruffy has scarcely seen John since

1:06:27

1993, he knows where

1:06:29

John has lived since the house which

1:06:31

Bromman part-owned was sold by John in

1:06:33

1999. I

1:06:36

wonder how he was

1:06:39

able to liquidate Bromman's equity.

1:06:42

Let's say hypothetically, she

1:06:44

started a new life. Yeah. That's his

1:06:46

story, right? Oh, you mean after

1:06:48

the disappearance, she's gone after she started a new life.

1:06:50

You and the cops in the coroner have disagreed with

1:06:52

that. So I'm not expressing a view,

1:06:54

right? But I'm just saying, let's just go with that

1:06:56

for the time being. Then

1:07:00

she still has equity or

1:07:02

had equity. Yeah, and how

1:07:04

did he manage to sell

1:07:06

that? Well, it depends on whose names it was in.

1:07:09

It wouldn't even matter whose name it was in. She

1:07:11

had rights as the partner in that house. Well,

1:07:14

that's one avenue to track down to how he pulled that.

1:07:19

Not a bad look. See, I'm fairly

1:07:22

intelligent, and so I

1:07:24

put everything in my wife's name from before

1:07:26

they were even bought or built. So

1:07:30

there is no dispute on the settlement. I

1:07:32

just choose what pairs of board shorts I need, and

1:07:34

then I'm off. He

1:07:37

has avoided publicity. Oh, so,

1:07:39

well, you can't blame him. He's

1:07:41

living with a sword of damocles hanging over him. I'm

1:07:45

sure he'd be interested enough to hear it. In

1:07:48

a previous episode, you heard some evidence

1:07:50

from a 1998 police

1:07:53

statement by Bronwyn's townhouse neighbour,

1:07:55

Alan Fisher. Here

1:07:57

is more of what Alan recalled about the settlement.

1:07:59

the events shortly after May 16 1993. About a

1:08:02

week after Brommon went missing, I

1:08:07

came home and noticed a ladder leaning up onto the

1:08:09

roof of the flat that Brommon used to live at.

1:08:12

I went over to the landlady Shirley Taylor and

1:08:14

told her about the ladder. Shirley

1:08:17

came running over with her son and I saw there

1:08:19

was two more people in the unit. It

1:08:21

turned out that these people were friends of Brommon who had

1:08:24

got into Brommon's unit to make sure she wasn't there. They

1:08:27

weren't there to steal anything. It

1:08:29

was sometime later I was told by the

1:08:31

landlady Shirley Taylor that Brommon's husband had been

1:08:33

at the unit trying to get the rest

1:08:36

of Brommon's belongings. Shirley

1:08:38

told me that the husband had said there were things missing

1:08:40

and that he thought that Brommon must have come back to

1:08:42

the unit and taken them. As

1:08:44

I mentioned earlier, Brommon was very close to

1:08:47

her children and I find it strange that

1:08:49

Brommon would leave and not have any further

1:08:51

contact with her children. I

1:08:53

remember that Brommon would not even go down to

1:08:55

the local garage unless she had someone to watch

1:08:57

the kids while she was gone. Here's

1:09:01

how the owner of the town houses,

1:09:03

Shirley Taylor described it and you heard

1:09:05

her in an earlier episode. About

1:09:08

two weeks later, John came to my place and

1:09:10

wanted to take the things that Brommon had left

1:09:12

behind. I had also

1:09:15

spoken to the police about her disappearance and

1:09:17

they told me to keep Brommon's belongings in

1:09:19

case she returned. John

1:09:21

came around a couple of times a

1:09:23

week and always requested Brommon's property but

1:09:26

I kept refusing him. After

1:09:28

a period of about six weeks, I returned

1:09:30

Brommon's belongings to John and he took them

1:09:33

home. At a

1:09:35

later time, I was cleaning the townhouse and

1:09:37

I located a cane jewellery box on top

1:09:39

of a wardrobe. Inside

1:09:41

the jewellery box was a brown ring case

1:09:43

which contained a gold chain with a Taurus

1:09:46

medallion, a further gold

1:09:48

chain, a heart-shaped pendant

1:09:50

with a diamond in the centre, one

1:09:53

nine-carat gold wedding band, one

1:09:56

gold engagement ring with eight diamonds surrounding a

1:09:58

larger diamond in the centre. the centre,

1:10:01

and a gold pendant containing an opal and

1:10:03

surrounded by 14 diamonds. Also

1:10:07

contained in the jewellery box was

1:10:09

a thick chained gold bracelet, a

1:10:11

pink heart-shaped soap and a red

1:10:13

and white dice. I was

1:10:15

not aware whether these items belonged to Broman, so

1:10:18

I put them in a cupboard in my house

1:10:20

and they've been there ever since. I

1:10:23

did not know what to do with them and eventually

1:10:25

forgot about them. I

1:10:27

haven't seen Broman since May 14, 1993,

1:10:31

when she came and told me that she was returning to

1:10:33

her house. I

1:10:35

do recall that she was extremely happy about moving

1:10:37

back into the house. I

1:10:40

recall seeing something in the Northern Star

1:10:42

newspaper about her disappearance and I can

1:10:44

say that I find it extremely hard

1:10:46

to believe that Broman would leave the

1:10:48

children behind if she were to go

1:10:50

anywhere. Now

1:10:52

here's more from Peter Shanahan's

1:10:54

police statement. Peter

1:10:56

was one of the owners with his

1:10:59

then-wife, Robin, of Eden's Takeaway where Broman

1:11:01

had a part-time job. I

1:11:04

recall that I spoke to a detective

1:11:06

in 1993 and told him about Broman

1:11:08

not turning up for work on the

1:11:10

Tuesday. Broman needed

1:11:12

the money from the casual work and would

1:11:14

most definitely rang me to tell me she

1:11:16

couldn't come in. Broman

1:11:18

never turned up for any future work and

1:11:21

I found out later that she had disappeared.

1:11:24

I have observed Broman with her two

1:11:26

girls, Crystal and Lauren, and

1:11:28

I would describe Broman as a very good mother.

1:11:31

For her to leave her girls and not make contact

1:11:33

is not the Broman that I knew. In

1:11:36

my opinion there is no way that Broman would

1:11:38

have left her girls. Over

1:11:41

the last few years I have often wondered what

1:11:43

happened to Broman. And

1:11:46

there's more evidence from the 1998 police

1:11:49

statement of Maria Lewis, Scruffy's

1:11:51

wife. Later

1:11:53

I found out that Broman had supposedly gone away

1:11:55

for a holiday for two weeks and left the

1:11:57

children with John. this

1:12:00

I found it unbelievable considering everything I'd heard

1:12:02

from Bronwyn whilst she was living in the

1:12:04

flat. A couple

1:12:06

of weeks after Bronwyn had supposedly gone on

1:12:08

holidays John came over to our house and

1:12:11

we talked. He told us

1:12:13

that he and Bronwyn had had a long discussion and

1:12:15

that the stress with the kids had taken its toll

1:12:17

with her and she had to get away. During

1:12:21

this conversation he said, I've already

1:12:23

lost two houses to two other women and I'll do

1:12:25

whatever it takes to see that it doesn't happen again.

1:12:27

This is not the

1:12:29

exact statement that John made but it is

1:12:32

to the best of my recollection. He also

1:12:34

made comment about rumours which were circling Lennox's

1:12:36

head about him having buried her and stated

1:12:38

that if he heard it again he would

1:12:40

sue whoever said it. I

1:12:43

would describe Bronwyn as a very caring mother and

1:12:46

her children's interests always came first. I

1:12:48

do not believe that she would just get up

1:12:50

and leave her children particularly with no further

1:12:52

contact. I spent a

1:12:55

lot of time with her just prior to her disappearance

1:12:57

and I formed the opinion that she would do anything

1:12:59

to stop John getting custody of the children and I

1:13:02

find it extremely hard to believe that she would go

1:13:04

on a holiday not come back and leave the children

1:13:06

with John as he is purported. I'm

1:13:08

very definite about this. Jane

1:13:11

Johnston, the wife of John's cousin

1:13:13

Richard who's better known as Andrew

1:13:16

had more to say in her

1:13:18

statement to police in 1998 too

1:13:22

and as with Alan Fisher, Shirley

1:13:24

Taylor, Peter Shanahan and Maria Glueus

1:13:26

these are the words from the

1:13:29

police statement. They're being voiced

1:13:31

by an actor. I

1:13:34

didn't hear anything whilst I was overseas other

1:13:36

than when Andrew met me he told me that

1:13:38

he had received a strange phone call from Bronwyn.

1:13:41

Shortly after returning home from overseas Andrew

1:13:43

and I went on a picnic at

1:13:45

Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield.

1:13:48

Peter is John's brother. While

1:13:50

we were on the picnic Peter told us that

1:13:52

Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior. We

1:13:55

didn't have much contact with John after that and

1:13:57

I didn't discuss her disappearance with him because because

1:14:00

he obviously didn't want to. One

1:14:03

day in 1994, while shopping in the Shire, Jane

1:14:06

saw a woman in profile about 30

1:14:09

metres away. She thought

1:14:11

the woman looked like Bronwyn. Jane

1:14:14

yelled Bronwyn's name loudly, but

1:14:16

there was no response. Jane

1:14:19

said she ran after the shopper, but

1:14:21

lost her in the crowd. MUSIC

1:14:37

Bronwyn is written and investigated

1:14:39

by me, Hedley Thomas, as a

1:14:41

podcast production for The Australian. If

1:14:44

anyone has information which may

1:14:47

help solve this cold case,

1:14:49

please contact me confidentially

1:14:51

by emailing bronwyn

1:14:53

at theaustralian.com.au. You

1:14:57

can read more about this case and

1:15:00

see a range of photographs and

1:15:02

other artwork at the website, bronwynpodcast.com.

1:15:07

Our subscribers and registered users

1:15:09

hear episodes first. The

1:15:12

production and editorial team for

1:15:14

Bronwyn includes Claire Harvey, Kristen

1:15:17

Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget

1:15:19

Ryan, Bianca Farmacus, Katie

1:15:21

Burns, Liam Mendez, Sean

1:15:24

Callan, Matthew Condon and David Murray.

1:15:27

Audio production for this podcast

1:15:30

series is by Wasabi Audio

1:15:32

and original theme music by

1:15:34

Slade Gibson. We have

1:15:36

been assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation

1:15:38

of Bronwyn Winfield. We

1:15:40

can only do this kind of journalism with

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the support of our subscribers and

1:15:45

our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.

1:15:48

For all of our exclusive

1:15:50

stories, videos, maps, timelines and

1:15:52

documents about this podcast and

1:15:54

other podcasts, including The Teacher's

1:15:56

Pet, The Teacher's Trial, The

1:15:58

Teacher's Accuser. Shandy's story,

1:16:01

Shandy's legacy and the

1:16:03

Night Driver. Go to

1:16:06

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