0:00

Listeners are advised that this podcast

0:02

series, Bronwyn, contains course language and

0:04

adult themes. This podcast series is

0:07

brought to you by me, Headley

0:10

Thomas, and the Australian. This

0:42

is the most important episode in

0:45

the Bronwyn podcast series so far.

0:48

It is going to disclose a

0:50

major new development in this investigation

0:52

into Bronwyn's disappearance. It

0:55

is so serious it should prompt Senior

0:57

Detective Nigel Warren or another member of

1:00

the Unsolved Homicide Unit in Sydney to

1:02

beat a path to the door of

1:04

a woman from whom you'll hear shortly.

1:08

Her name is Judy Singh. She

1:10

is 69 years old, a Korean

1:12

nurse who retired a few years ago,

1:15

and she now lives with her daughter's family

1:17

in northern New South Wales. Our

1:21

first conversation was a recorded interview over

1:23

the telephone on Tuesday, June 11. Here

1:25

is some of

1:27

what Jude told me then. And this

1:30

night I was sitting up and I saw

1:32

the car pull out at the end of

1:34

the street and the light was on in

1:36

my car. There was really squeaky

1:39

brakes on that car, and

1:41

he drove very slowly along

1:43

the street, but he

1:45

had left the car light on. And

1:48

I could see directly into the car and

1:51

I had a small lantern on the

1:53

balcony rail and he kind

1:56

of looked up this night and I saw

1:58

this what looked like. But

4:00

I don't want to put words in your mouth.

4:02

Can you describe it? Well

4:06

a roundish head

4:08

with this light green or

4:10

beige covering on it, it

4:14

was long, wasn't a

4:16

surfboard because a surfboard would have sharp

4:18

edges. I've been through that in

4:20

my head as well. It

4:23

had to be something

4:26

round like a head or

4:28

a ball but

4:30

then it was long and you know,

4:33

covered. That's

4:35

what I remember. Where

4:38

was the head of the mummy? Right

4:41

in the corner on the back behind the

4:44

passenger seat in the back. The

4:47

head of the mummy was in the corner pressing

4:50

up against the door. She

4:52

was quite upright. But

4:55

almost like in a seated fashion in the

4:57

back. Yes, you probably

4:59

would have had a bend in it somehow.

5:01

The roundness of the head was very

5:04

visible. This

5:06

was a light green or sort

5:09

of creamy coloured sheet. I don't

5:12

know what colour sheets John had

5:14

but it was like a shroud,

5:16

you know, like a body. I've dealt with a

5:18

lot of dead bodies in my life as a

5:20

nurse. I

5:23

can't be mistaken because the

5:25

light was on in the car. Was

5:29

it possible for you to actually identify

5:31

him as John Winfield when you looked

5:33

in? Oh yeah,

5:35

it was him. Definitely

5:38

him. Without

5:40

a doubt in my mind it was him. That's

5:44

it. That's the story. God

5:47

Jude. You wonder

5:49

why the police wouldn't be interested in that.

5:51

Even now I start getting

5:53

quite churned up inside when I'm thinking

5:56

about it. You know, it's

5:58

just one of those things and I've had to live with it. Lennox

8:00

Head, and a date, May 16, 1993.

8:06

I replied to Kerry. I wrote,

8:08

It's an intriguing case. Do you know

8:10

anything about it? Kerry

8:13

emailed back with some very

8:15

specific information. She

8:18

told me that Crystal lived with Kerry in

8:20

Kerry's home in Ballina as a border when

8:22

Crystal was finishing her last year of high

8:24

school there. Her stepfather

8:26

John was leaving to go to Sydney for

8:29

a building project. But

8:31

Kerry added something else. She

8:33

wrote that she had a friend who lived in

8:36

the same street as the Winfields, and

8:38

Kerry had been told by her friend that

8:40

she had seen something. Kerry

8:43

added that she urged her friend to

8:45

pass the information onto police. But

8:48

she said that her friend had a

8:50

sick baby at the time and Kerry

8:52

wasn't sure how her friend had handled

8:54

the information. To

8:56

get it off her own chest, Kerry

8:59

passed the information onto a detective some

9:01

years later. Kerry

9:03

didn't mention the name of her friend in

9:05

her email to me, and I

9:08

didn't want to press things at that

9:10

stage, early January 2023. I

9:14

had started writing my book, The Teacher's Pet,

9:16

which took up much of that year, and

9:19

there was still unfinished business with

9:21

the newly convicted wife killer, Chris

9:23

Dawson. His trial

9:25

for unlawful sex with an underage

9:27

schoolgirl became a series called The

9:30

Teacher's Accuser, and I worked on

9:32

this each week with my journalist

9:34

colleagues and friends David Murray, Claire

9:36

Harvey, Matthew Condon and Kristin Amiet.

9:39

It would be another year before

9:41

I could properly commit to a

9:43

thorough investigation and podcast series revolving

9:46

around Bronwyn's disappearance. But

9:48

it is important to keep every email,

9:50

contact and tip off. The

9:53

Bronwyn-Wimfield folder on my laptop grew,

9:57

after thanking Kerry McLean in January 2023.

10:00

I assured her that I would be back

10:02

in touch when there was time to revive

10:04

Bromwin's case. And so

10:06

in February 2024, about three months

10:09

before the release of the first

10:11

episode in this podcast series, I

10:13

recorded an interview with Kerry. In

10:17

the 1990s her surname was Enzbe

10:19

and she started telling me about

10:22

her connection to Bromwin's daughter, Crystal.

10:25

How she came here was,

10:27

there must have been a

10:30

little ad in the paper,

10:33

board wanted for a

10:35

student. So

10:37

I just rang that number and

10:39

she moved in. She must

10:41

have been about 16. It's

10:44

pretty unusual, a girl in

10:47

a family situation at that

10:49

stage of a high school needing to move in

10:51

with a stranger, what's going on there? Well,

10:53

he was going to, didn't need to work. The

10:57

house is very welcoming, I'm very

10:59

welcoming. She was safe while

11:01

she was here. She settled

11:03

in quite good, went off

11:05

to school. She was

11:07

quiet. She

11:10

wasn't over talkative, very

11:12

tall girl. All

11:14

teenage girls need their mum. She

11:17

was really keen on doing

11:20

school. I mean, she was

11:22

a nice girl, not wild or anything, like a lot

11:24

of the kids that I've had here. Did

11:27

she tell you then that her

11:30

mother had disappeared or? Oh yes,

11:32

she talked a little bit about it. No

11:35

doubt it was on her mind all the time.

11:38

Do you know what happened to Lauren while you were looking after her?

11:41

She went with her dad to

11:43

Sydney. So I reckon

11:47

she was living with

11:49

you when she made a police

11:51

statement in Balina in July 1999.

11:57

Oh, I think I can remember. In

12:01

fact, she definitely was. Because

12:04

she says in paragraph 3, I am

12:07

presently residing at, and I won't say your

12:09

address, with three Enzbe and

12:11

three young children. That's right.

12:14

My name was Enzbe. Maddie

12:18

Walsh, Bronwyn's 21-year-old second cousin who

12:20

has been doing her own homework

12:23

for me in this podcast series

12:25

and being an enormous help, asked

12:28

her teenage sister, Tiana, to

12:30

read Crystal's police statement. I

12:33

have attended the Ballina police station today

12:35

again of my own free will. I

12:38

have been very concerned about what has happened to

12:41

my mother, and I would like the police to

12:43

conduct a thorough investigation to try and find out

12:45

what has happened to her. Tiana

12:48

is 16, the same age Crystal was

12:50

when she was living with Kerry McLean

12:52

and went with a schoolteacher to make

12:55

her statement to police in Ballina in

12:57

1999. I

13:00

have been requested by Detective Sergeant Payler

13:02

to make a statement concerning my knowledge

13:04

of my mother's disappearance. I

13:07

am prepared to do that, and I understand

13:09

that the statement may be given to the

13:11

coroner to assist in any further inquiry. I

13:15

have been asked what recollection I have back in

13:17

May 1993 when my father arrived at the

13:21

family home in San Antonio Crescent. This

13:23

apparently being the day my mother disappeared.

13:27

I remember being at home in the early

13:29

evening when I received a telephone call, and

13:31

from my recollection it was from my father.

13:34

I don't remember what it was that I spoke

13:36

about, but it was not long after this that

13:38

my father arrived at the house. I

13:41

remember my mother saying something like, what are you

13:43

doing here? My father says

13:45

something about having caught a plane back to

13:48

Ballina. When I

13:50

first saw my father, another lady was with him

13:52

at the front door, but she

13:54

virtually left straight away. I

13:56

remember Dad coming into the kitchen and I

13:58

was sitting watching television. My

14:01

dad and mom started talking, but I don't know

14:03

what was being said. I

14:06

think at one stage they went into the bedroom and

14:08

they were talking in there. I

14:11

remember mom and dad were talking about unpaid

14:13

bills and mom saying something along the lines

14:15

about not talking about it in front of

14:17

Lauren and myself. The

14:20

next thing that I remember was mom telling myself

14:22

and my sister Lauren to clean our teeth and

14:24

go to bed. I

14:26

think we normally went to bed about 8.30pm each night. After

14:31

I went to bed, I heard mom and dad arguing in

14:33

the kitchen. I could

14:35

hear mom crying at the same time. I

14:38

don't recall what was being said between mom and dad,

14:41

but I could tell that they were arguing.

14:44

I could hear them arguing until I must have fell

14:46

asleep. My next

14:48

recollection that night was being awoken by

14:50

my father. Dad

14:52

told me that he was taking Lauren and I to Sydney.

14:55

I recall that we packed a small bag of clothes

14:58

and got into the car. My

15:00

dog whose name was Mopsy was also put into

15:02

the car with us. At

15:05

that time we had an old white falcon.

15:08

After we got in the car and dad started

15:10

driving, Lauren asked dad where mom was. I

15:14

remember dad saying something about mom going away

15:16

on a holiday and he was taking us

15:18

to Sydney. Dad

15:20

said something about that he had a job to do and

15:22

that we would have to go with him to Sydney. I

15:26

recall that we stopped at a petrol station somewhere,

15:29

but I don't remember where it was. I

15:31

don't remember much about the rest of the trip to Sydney.

15:35

I remember we stayed in Sydney for a

15:37

couple of weeks before returning to Lennox Head.

15:40

Dad never mentioned anything to me about mom

15:42

while I was in Sydney. I

15:45

recall that Lauren was asking dad all the time

15:47

about mom and he just said that she would

15:49

be back soon. I

15:52

became aware after a couple of weeks that

15:54

mom had been reported missing to the police,

15:56

but dad never spoke to me about it.

16:00

a month I just presume that Mum just

16:02

wasn't coming back. I

16:04

was only 10 years of age at that time, so I

16:06

just thought she had left. I

16:09

have not had any contact with my mother

16:11

since her disappearance in 1993. Over

16:14

the years, I have often thought about what has

16:17

happened to her. Dad has

16:19

never brought up my mother in conversation. Basically,

16:22

over the years my mother has gradually been

16:24

built out of our lives. My

16:27

dad never talks about Mum or his past relationship

16:30

with her. I have

16:32

never tried to bring up Mum in conversation with

16:34

my father. I am

16:36

aware that he does not like to talk about her. I

16:40

am very concerned about what has happened to my mother, and

16:42

that is why I have attended the police station

16:45

today to speak to the police. I

16:47

have been asked by Detective Sergeant Taylor if

16:49

I have any knowledge of any domestic disputes

16:52

between my mother and father. I

16:55

remember that Mum and Dad used to argue on

16:57

occasions. Dad sometimes has

16:59

a bad temper and he could lose control.

17:02

I have seen my father hit my mother on

17:04

rare occasions. I

17:06

remember that he would smack Lauren on myself and

17:08

on one occasion he picked me up and threw

17:11

me against the wall. Dad

17:13

always liked the house to be kept spotlessly clean

17:15

and he would get upset if we made any

17:18

mess in the house. You

17:20

are going to hear more from Crystal's

17:22

1999 statement later in

17:25

this episode. Here's Kerri McLean

17:27

again, and just

17:29

a reminder, this conversation I'm having

17:31

with Kerri occurred on February 22

17:34

of this year, 2024, about

17:38

three and a half months before

17:40

I had any contact with Jude.

17:43

You contacted me a year ago.

17:46

Yeah. Was that

17:48

part of your frustration that nothing had happened? I

17:52

was listening to podcasts and

17:55

you said if there's anything that

17:57

you should be investigating or any

17:59

ideas. that

20:00

she saw him driving down the street and

20:03

she could see down into the car and

20:06

it looked like he had something on the back seat. She

20:10

said it looked like a white sheet, something wrapped

20:12

in a white sheet, which

20:14

I thought was, geez. And

20:18

you're certain that she described in those terms

20:21

something wrapped in a white sheet? Yes,

20:24

yes. So those are

20:26

two big coincidences, Kerri. One,

20:30

that Crystal is staying with

20:32

you while police

20:34

are investigating her mother's suspected

20:37

murder. Yep. And

20:40

two, that your friend who lives

20:43

in the street witnessed something. Yeah,

20:45

I know. It's been on my

20:47

mind forever. And what

20:49

I'm wondering is, while Crystal was

20:52

calling your place home, you have

20:54

known what your friend knew. Oh,

20:57

so I would have. Are

20:59

you okay if I try

21:01

to find Judy? Yeah.

21:05

She was divorced and then

21:07

she married. So

21:09

she went by Judy Singh

21:11

for a long time. When

21:15

your friend told you about

21:17

this, did you believe that

21:19

she could be relied upon? She

21:21

was a... Yeah, I

21:24

did. I did. Yeah, she

21:26

wasn't one for telling

21:29

tall stories. I

21:31

think at the time, we

21:33

both sort of made the comment, well,

21:36

if that was her, she'd

21:38

be in the dune somewhere. Can

21:42

you describe to me then how, from

21:45

her house, she would see into a car? It's

21:50

double storey, double

21:52

garage at the bottom. And

21:56

up the top, there's a glass sliding

21:58

door with a little bellwound. balcony, not

22:01

a very big one. We

22:03

used to stand out on that balcony and have

22:06

a cup of tea and

22:08

you could see right down into the

22:11

cars as they drove past. And

22:14

if you see the house, you'll understand how

22:17

that's possible. Kerry's

22:20

memory of what Jude disclosed was that

22:22

she had made the sighting in the

22:24

early hours of the morning. However,

22:26

Jude has told me it was

22:28

closer to midnight. What

22:31

sort of relevance do you know

22:33

or think that she attached to

22:35

it? Well,

22:37

I think she thought that Bronwyn

22:40

was deceased in the backseat, wrapped in

22:42

a sheet, and he was going to

22:45

dispose of her in the sand dunes. Why

22:48

the sand dunes? Well, because he's

22:50

a surfer. He'd know all the isolated

22:53

places. When

22:55

do you think you first raised with police

22:58

what your friend Judy told you? When

23:01

they opened it up again and they

23:03

were investigating. Was

23:05

that about 2009, so around 15 years ago? Possibly,

23:10

yeah. If that was when it

23:12

was. 2009, yeah. In

23:18

2009, there was a brief burst

23:20

of publicity and the Northern Star

23:22

newspaper reported that the senior detective

23:25

George Radmore of the New South

23:27

Wales Unsolved Homicide Squad was reinvestigating

23:29

Bronwyn's disappearance. I was

23:31

living with this information and I

23:34

don't know whether Judy ever spoke

23:36

to them. And I

23:38

just wanted to let them know that they

23:41

need to speak to this lady. So

23:45

you were covering off, you were making sure. I

23:48

guess, like with these things, you sit back

23:51

and you think, someone will say something. And

23:53

I just wasn't sure because I knew what

23:56

her life was like. She

23:58

had a lot going on. I

28:01

don't ever recall Mum leaving myself or Lauren

28:03

for any length of time. Mum

28:06

never went on a holiday without us and

28:08

from my recollection she was quite protective of

28:10

us. I

28:12

feel sure that if Mum intended to go on a

28:15

holiday without us, she would have let us know.

28:19

About 12.30pm on Sunday June 9,

28:22

a few days after the release of

28:24

episode 4 of this podcast

28:26

series, I opened an email. It

28:29

was from Jude Singh. We

28:32

had been trying to find her without

28:34

success. I was hopeful

28:36

that she would hear about the podcast and

28:39

contact me, but there were no guarantees.

28:43

Until I read Jude's email,

28:45

I couldn't understand how, in

28:47

darkness, a neighbour could see

28:49

inside an unlit car as

28:51

it passed by. By

28:54

another coincidence on Sunday June 9,

28:56

Maddie Walsh, her mum and dad,

28:58

her sister Tiana, her brother Jai,

29:01

and his girlfriend Chloe visited my

29:03

wife Ruth and I at our

29:05

home in Brisbane, four

29:07

hours after Jude's email had landed in

29:10

my inbox. I

29:12

quietly took Maddie aside and out to

29:14

the driveway, leaving our visitors on the

29:16

deck. I showed her

29:18

Jude's email on my laptop as well

29:20

as my reply to Jude in which

29:22

I had shared my mobile number and

29:25

asked Jude to please call me on it. Can

29:28

I have you this for five minutes? Nice

29:34

to meet your family. Yeah. I

29:37

got this email today. Just

29:41

read that there. Read

29:43

it out loud. At home the

29:45

night John drove past my house, I could see

29:47

inside his car, the light inside it was still

29:49

on. I lived in Granite Street, Lennox. Jude

29:52

is seeing. Wow.

29:57

So she contacted the website. I

32:00

don't know. Does she know we've talked to Cherry?

32:02

I doubt it. But why hasn't she said, no,

32:04

you don't even know. I guess

32:06

we'll have to wait and see. Yeah. She's

32:08

keeping us on her toes. Gosh.

32:12

Now let's return to the interview with

32:14

Jude. Her surname was Willa

32:17

Brands when she and her children lived

32:19

in a rented home, very close to

32:21

the Winfield house in Lennox Head. Why

32:24

do you believe that on the night you

32:27

saw the object in the car, the thing

32:29

you've described as the mummy? Why

32:31

do you place it in

32:33

the late evening before midnight? Because

32:36

I was having trouble with my pregnancy.

32:39

I was worried about miscarriage, actually, and

32:41

just sitting up, my children had gone

32:43

to bed. I

32:46

just couldn't sleep worrying about it

32:48

all. Yeah. And is that.

32:51

I had to give up my job, worrying about how it's going

32:53

to pay rent. In

32:55

those days, it was $220 to live in that house. A

32:59

week, and they ended up having to go on a

33:01

pension and absolute struggle.

33:04

Lots of things happened at that stage, you know,

33:06

and there was a marriage break out and they

33:09

went through the walls. Jude

33:12

told me that she went to the police

33:14

station in Ballina in 1993 to

33:17

report what she saw. Her

33:20

visit to the station came after

33:22

a neighbour, Virginia Bevers told Jude

33:24

that Bronwyn had disappeared. You

33:27

heard from Virginia in a previous episode.

33:30

John had been to police to

33:32

report Bronwyn missing in late May.

33:35

The missing person report triggered

33:37

visits to Sandstone Crescent by

33:39

detectives Graham Disken and Wayne

33:41

Temby. The neighbours

33:43

were talking among themselves about Bronwyn's

33:45

disappearance and the police visits. I

33:49

just wanted to understand that when you

33:51

think you first went to the police

33:53

or... When was it?

33:55

Very close to when I saw that. I

33:59

talked to the ballon of the police. police first and

34:01

they took me behind the counter. They

34:04

gave me a card. Now my things

34:06

are in storage. I'm about to build

34:09

a little granny flat in my daughter's

34:11

backyard. And I kept that

34:13

card for a long, long time in

34:15

case somebody rang me and I could give

34:18

them the particulars that were written

34:20

on the card. Are

34:23

you saying that they gave you

34:25

a card but that you

34:28

weren't actually spoken to by a detective

34:30

about what you saw at that time?

34:33

Yeah, I was spoken to by somebody. I went

34:35

behind the counter in the

34:37

Ballina police station, spoke to a

34:39

man on the desk. He

34:42

said, well, come around, take a

34:44

statement. I had a different name then

34:46

to my name now. What was your name

34:49

then? Well, Grant.

34:52

And he didn't take a

34:54

statement though, but you told him the story. I

34:58

believe they wrote something down. Yeah. And

35:01

then they gave me the card. Did

35:03

you form an impression then of how

35:06

seriously or not they were taking

35:08

it? Hardly

35:10

interested. Hardly. I

35:13

can't understand why that would be. Almost

35:15

had to beg them to let

35:18

me say something. Those

35:21

early, early weeks was

35:24

when I went there. I

35:26

actually just wanted to get it off my

35:28

conscience in my mind, even though I

35:30

had stuff going on. Yeah.

35:32

I went

35:35

away feeling so despondent and

35:37

thinking about those dear little

35:39

girls. I

35:41

don't know. He was a strange sort of a

35:44

dude. He wasn't very friendly. As

35:47

the year progressed, my daughter was born

35:50

and she had to have

35:52

an ileostomy put in place and really

35:54

touch and go. And well, I just

35:56

got tied up. I

35:59

had a lot of shit going on. going on, especially

36:01

money wise, just you could not work

36:03

out how it was going to financially

36:05

exist when I had to suddenly do

36:07

that work. Anyway, you get through them.

36:11

Jude described a second occasion years

36:13

later when she tried again to

36:15

alert local police to what she

36:17

had seen. I

36:19

ran into a doctor, right, and I told

36:21

her the story in a

36:24

little cafe called The Bean Scene in

36:26

Ballina. Many years later

36:28

she came back to the hospital and

36:30

I was actually working in that little

36:33

hospital in McLean and she said

36:35

to me, did you

36:37

go back to the police after you had

36:39

that interview? And I said, no

36:41

I didn't. And she said, well, we're going

36:44

today. Jude and

36:46

the doctor, who was from New Zealand,

36:48

drove to the nearby Byron Bay police

36:50

station. Anyway, she

36:52

talked me into going to the Byron

36:55

Bay police station this time thinking somebody

36:57

there might listen to us. Then

37:00

I spoke to a gentleman there and I said,

37:02

you know, like, I'm

37:04

just always haunted by this story

37:07

about this woman at the end of the street.

37:10

They didn't do an official interview. I

37:12

said, like, is there anyone here that

37:14

wants to write something down? Things

37:17

are hardly interested in any of it. When

37:21

do you think it was that

37:23

you went to the Byron police with

37:25

the doctor? Oh,

37:28

this is years later. Yeah. Is

37:32

there anything, anyway, you can roughly time

37:34

frame it by reference to what you

37:37

were doing in Ballina at Bean's

37:39

Cafe or just

37:41

an approximate? What

37:44

I was doing. Well, I'm just trying to

37:46

work out roughly what decade we

37:48

were in when you went to Byron to see

37:50

the police. I

37:54

moved to McLean when I was 15

37:58

after 50. you're

38:00

going back so many years now. I'd say

38:03

between 2000 and 2005 maybe, middle of the 2000. Okay,

38:09

that's a big help, thank you. And

38:12

do you recall the name of the

38:14

police officer or anyone else in Byron?

38:18

I only know that he came from

38:20

Tamworth. I told

38:22

him who I was when I

38:24

lived in Tamworth and I said my

38:27

sister used to work at the

38:29

Tamworth Police Station, she was some

38:32

superintendent's private secretary. He

38:34

said, you're not

38:36

Judy. And I said yes. He

38:40

said that is

38:42

amazing. So I brought

38:44

back some memories

38:46

for him. He knew my

38:48

sister Diane. He was

38:50

around my age, maybe a bit

38:52

older, probably retired

38:54

now. Are they

38:57

the two occasions that

38:59

you remember and there

39:01

were no others or was there another occasion? No,

39:05

I don't think so. I think they're

39:07

the only two occasions that I remember.

39:09

Okay, and just in relation to that

39:11

doctor who you remembered seeing again, what

39:15

would be really important is

39:17

if I could talk to

39:19

her as well because she might remember going

39:22

with you. Yeah. Do

39:25

you have any idea where I might be able to find her?

39:29

Jude told me the doctor from New

39:31

Zealand would have returned to her home country

39:33

as she was visiting as a locum when

39:35

Jude last saw her in Australia. She

39:38

told me the doctor had a very pretty

39:41

name. And she went

39:43

up to Galina on that day to have

39:45

something to eat and have a look around. We

39:49

just met over just having a meal

39:51

and a chat and it

39:53

must have been at

39:55

that stage I was talking to her about it

39:58

when she came back to McLean. She said,

40:00

oh, did you do something about that? Do

40:02

you know why you started talking

40:05

to, I guess, someone who's a bit of

40:07

a stranger about this event

40:09

from years earlier? You know what the catalyst

40:11

was? I

40:14

can't even tell you why. Maybe

40:16

it was on

40:19

my mind or maybe something

40:22

had happened and it

40:24

brought that story to mind. She

40:26

was a good listener. Do

40:29

you think stay in your head? I

40:31

can visually just see that car, the

40:33

light on him looking up. I

40:37

don't think he made an attempt to turn the light

40:39

off or anything. It was on right up to the

40:41

end of the street. I looked at the car, going

40:43

all the way. It wasn't going fast, 5Ks,

40:46

something like that. And

40:50

Jude, can you describe your

40:53

level of suspicion about

40:56

what it was that was in the

40:58

car when you were told that Bronwyn

41:00

had disappeared? Well,

41:02

I was very concerned when

41:05

I started talking about it with my son.

41:07

He said, mum, I can see how it

41:09

worked. Don't forget about this. I

41:11

was always just so surprised how uninterested

41:15

people were, especially at

41:18

the police station about this. Jude,

41:21

I have to tell you something that you might

41:23

be a little bit surprised about. I heard a

41:26

long time ago, I can't

41:29

remember exactly when, could have

41:31

been months, certainly before this

41:33

podcast investigation started, about you

41:36

from someone you knew, someone

41:38

who said

41:41

that you were really concerned

41:43

about it, that you had

41:45

seen something that really troubled you. Someone

41:48

has said that. Someone told me about

41:50

it. And

41:53

I was hoping that I would be able to talk to you

41:55

again. Is it Virginia? Because

41:57

Virginia lived across the road. Virginia

42:00

and I don't think the person will mind she

42:02

was your friend and she was urging

42:04

me to try to find

42:06

you because she's lost contact with you and

42:09

I have been trying to find

42:11

you. Well like I said I

42:13

changed my name. Yeah. I married an

42:15

Indian man and six months into

42:17

the marriage he said oh I

42:20

can get my residency now. That's

42:24

all he wanted so I went back to my house.

42:27

Well dear. That was a very

42:29

short live and I've kept my

42:31

name only because I was a nurse

42:33

and it was nice you know at

42:36

McLean Hospital. I went through divorce

42:38

and I went through breast cancer during

42:41

that stressful period. Chemotherapy,

42:43

lost hair, had to

42:45

get up work again. It was just

42:47

one bloody struggle after another

42:50

at that stage. Yeah

42:52

who is that friend can you tell

42:54

me? Her name's Kerry. Kerry Enspie? I

42:57

think that's it. Kerry

42:59

McLean. I

43:02

remember that she had Crystal, the

43:04

daughter. Yes. When I went through

43:06

breast cancer I actually stayed with Kerry because

43:08

I came out of hospital with all the

43:10

drains and the what have you and she

43:12

said you'll stay here of course and

43:15

then I was sitting at the table

43:17

the next morning she said I have a

43:19

girl here her name's Crystal and

43:23

her mum is missing or presumed dead or

43:25

whatever I don't know what the exact word

43:27

she said was she's here.

43:31

I said gosh that just leaves a shiver

43:35

over me. Oh gosh you know like

43:37

the fact that it was such a

43:39

coincidence that she she was there. Well

43:42

you must have disclosed it to Kerry and

43:46

oh yeah many times she

43:49

really believed what you had to

43:51

say and was wanting

43:53

to try to help by putting me in

43:56

touch with you somehow because she'd lost touch

43:58

with you. Here.

52:01

We can sit at the table or sit in these chairs.

52:03

What do you think, Shaun? Shaun

52:05

Callinan has come from the Brisbane

52:08

office to film Jude and help

52:10

develop an animated sequence of the

52:12

car and everything Jude has described.

52:15

You can see this

52:17

at bromwinpodcast.com, along

52:19

with many other stories, photographs,

52:21

and graphics. Where

52:24

did you become a nurse? When I was 17. A

52:27

long time. So Shaun's here to

52:29

help us picture what's

52:33

been in your memory all this time,

52:35

just for accuracy. It's

52:38

been in my head for a lot of the years. Jude

52:41

produced a cream-coloured old photo album

52:43

with happy snaps of her and

52:45

her children at the beach, at

52:47

home, and other family occasions, going

52:49

back to Lennox Head. She

52:52

went to several photographs of their old

52:54

house there, and she showed me a

52:56

second-level deck which overlooks Granite Street. And

52:59

listeners can go to a map

53:02

at the website, bromwinpodcast.com. Try

53:05

to picture Granite Street joining up with

53:07

Sandstone Crescent at a right angle. On

53:10

one side of the road, there's Deb and Murray's

53:13

house. That's on the lower side.

53:16

John and Bromwin, their neighbours, were next

53:18

door, but just a little higher in

53:20

the street. To

53:22

save time on the way in

53:24

or out of the U-shaped Sandstone

53:27

Crescent, you can take a shortcut

53:29

along Granite Street, and that's

53:31

where Jude lived. What

53:34

you're pointing to there is the deck at

53:36

5 Granite Street. Yeah, at the front. And

53:39

you would have been sitting up here...

53:42

Is that right? Around this corner and

53:44

in front of the dining

53:46

area. Next to

53:48

me, I had John and Dorothy. OK.

53:51

They moved to by the island. Nice

53:53

part of the world. Jude

53:56

pointed to another photograph. That's

53:59

looking... Right up into the corner

54:01

of where I said I was just along here.

54:03

If you walk a little bit more, that's exactly

54:05

where I was. Right. Yeah.

54:10

And the street's down here, does

54:12

it? Street's straight in front of me. You

54:14

could see over the railing without having to

54:17

stand up. For you

54:19

at that time, that balcony

54:21

late at night, was it a place

54:23

where you felt, well, you

54:26

could collect your thoughts or have some

54:28

serenity? Yeah, well, as I said, I

54:30

was losing that child. And,

54:33

yeah, I couldn't sleep. I'm

54:35

not a good sleeper. I'm still

54:37

an insomniac. Years and years

54:39

of night duty. Sean

54:42

brought up Sandstone Crescent on his

54:44

laptop. We're just going to

54:46

have a look at it as a street view, just

54:48

to confirm that that's it. So

54:51

that's Mari and Deb's house now. I see with the

54:53

second level there. Yeah. It's going

54:55

to look good. Over here was a whole stack

54:57

of bottle brush. So I saw

54:59

him come into view just as he got past the

55:02

trees. Were

55:04

you also looking at the front of

55:06

the car as it approached or from

55:08

that balcony? Was that not

55:11

something you could do? Yes, I could see

55:14

the lights coming up the street. OK. Yeah,

55:16

and I thought, well, dude, that's late. Right.

55:19

OK. You were saying that Mari

55:21

saw him pull out without lights and

55:23

without any motor on. That

55:26

must have been earlier. I'm

55:29

thinking this was later. Because

55:32

there was nothing going on in that street. In

55:36

episode four, you'll recall hearing Mari

55:38

Nolan describing John's car with its

55:41

squeaky brakes reversing down the driveway

55:43

of the house at 10.40pm. The

55:47

car backed out with no lights on, bottom

55:50

down on the road, dug a big groove

55:52

in the road and rolled down the

55:54

hill. Down the bottom

55:57

of the hill, you're damn near from that light zone. Turn

55:59

the lights on, start again. and got around the other

56:01

way. But Jude

56:03

is describing a different trip. And

56:06

if her recollection is correct, it

56:08

must be on the same night, May

56:10

16. That's

56:12

because all the evidence, including John's

56:14

evidence to police, puts him

56:17

on an aircraft from Sydney to Ballina

56:19

late in the day and then at

56:21

the house at Sandstone Crescent. And

56:24

then after a disagreement or altercation

56:26

with Bronwyn, John's driving away from

56:28

the house and through the night

56:30

to go to Sydney with the two girls, Crystal

56:33

and Lauren. John had

56:35

not been in Lennox Head for

56:37

several weeks prior to May 16. John

56:41

was working in Sydney in the Shire

56:43

at Glen Webster's job site. And

56:45

John didn't stay overnight when he returned to

56:48

Lennox because John turned up

56:50

in Sydney on the morning of Monday,

56:52

May 17. My

56:55

birthday was the 1st of May. I

56:57

have not kept dates on this. But

57:00

all I know is it was

57:03

about two

57:05

weeks after my birthday. That's

57:08

why, if Jude saw John driving

57:10

the car about two weeks after

57:12

her birthday, it had to be the night

57:14

of May 16. The only

57:16

night John was in Lennox for some

57:18

time. And the one

57:20

night on which John was the last

57:22

person to see Bronwyn alive when they

57:24

had a disagreement in the house just

57:26

50 metres or so from Jude's place.

57:30

It was the dark street at night, so

57:32

you couldn't miss lights coming up. He

57:35

looked up when he saw me. And

57:39

I could see this mummy-like

57:41

thing. And I hate saying mummy

57:44

because it is somebody's mummy. But

57:46

it was a long white

57:48

with a rounded head right in the

57:50

very corner of the back

57:52

of the car as it went

57:55

past. Closest

57:57

to you. Closest to me. Sean

58:00

has brought up images of a Ford

58:02

Falcon sedan on his laptop and the

58:04

three of us looked intently at the

58:06

screen. Sean

58:09

could you just zoom into the interior? Yeah

58:12

that's good. Can

58:14

you describe the positioning of the

58:16

object you refer to as a

58:18

mummy in

58:20

terms of where, if it is a mummy,

58:22

the feet would be? Well,

58:26

her head was almost in a seated position

58:28

but then heading that way. And

58:32

then you're saying the head was in

58:35

this corner? Yes. Sean

58:38

sketched a rough draft on paper.

58:41

Like that? Yeah,

58:45

yeah. So

58:47

you say to yourself, was that what was

58:49

keeping the light on, the pressure of that

58:52

against the door? But

58:54

wasn't her, why would somebody make something

58:56

look like that? Whatever

59:01

was wrapping the object, can

59:03

you describe that? Like a

59:06

very soft pale green or

59:08

cream. Of what? Like

59:11

a sheet like thing. Yeah.

59:17

You could see the form. And

59:19

you still haven't listened to any of the podcasts, have you

59:21

Jude? No. You

59:25

haven't been influenced by anything you've heard in

59:29

the Bronwyn podcast series? No,

59:31

no. As I said to you,

59:33

I can't get apps and things on

59:36

my phone and this is just what

59:38

I saw. Because

59:40

if it hadn't been for elimination, presumably

59:44

you wouldn't see much inside a passing car. No,

59:48

that's why I'm quite clear on what I saw. Remembering

59:52

looking up, you said you're

59:54

sure it was him? Yes, I'm sure

59:57

it was him I saw. Do

59:59

you remember? whether you

1:00:01

disclosed to Virginia

1:00:04

or anyone else in the street what

1:00:06

you're describing to us now. I don't

1:00:09

think so. In

1:00:33

episode 4 you heard Mel Taylor,

1:00:35

the daughter of Deb and Murray

1:00:38

who was age 12

1:00:40

when she went into John and Bronwyn's house on

1:00:42

Tuesday May 18 1993. Here's a reminder

1:00:47

of something Mel disclosed while we

1:00:49

were talking in the nursery section

1:00:51

of a public library in Brisbane.

1:00:54

What I find is strange

1:00:56

about the whole thing is for John to come all the way up

1:00:59

here to have

1:01:01

the argument with

1:01:04

Bronwyn then to leave

1:01:07

that same night in a

1:01:09

hurry. Why don't you stay till the

1:01:11

next morning and go back to Sydney? Why

1:01:14

do we leave in such a hurry? And

1:01:17

is that because you suspect flight,

1:01:19

urgent panic? I

1:01:22

noticed the house, what it looked like, the

1:01:25

state it was left in. What do

1:01:27

you remember about that? There was the washing

1:01:30

in the laundry, the dishes, the girls' beds

1:01:32

were stripped. The girls' beds

1:01:34

were stripped? There were no sheets in the bed. They

1:01:37

were gone. Mel's

1:01:40

disclosure about the sheets was

1:01:42

extremely interesting for me at

1:01:44

that time. Police did

1:01:46

not take a statement from Melanie Taylor when

1:01:49

she was 12 nor at

1:01:51

any time in the subsequent 31

1:01:53

years and perhaps that's

1:01:55

why there is no mention in any

1:01:57

of the hundreds of pages of evidence

1:02:00

around funding Bromman's case of the beds

1:02:02

in the girls' rooms having been stripped

1:02:04

of sheets. Maddie

1:02:06

Walsh and I agreed in May

1:02:08

after we met Melanie that when

1:02:11

we spoke to members of Bromman's

1:02:13

family we would not disclose what

1:02:15

Kerry Maclean had told me back

1:02:17

in February. The

1:02:19

absence of the sheets was

1:02:21

potentially deeply suspicious. Three

1:02:24

months before we met Mel, Kerry

1:02:26

Maclean had told me what she

1:02:28

recalled that her friend Jude had

1:02:30

told her. Well,

1:02:32

I think she thought that Bromman

1:02:34

was deceased in the backseat, wrapped

1:02:37

in a sheet. But

1:02:39

in May, we were yet to find Judy

1:02:42

Singh, the purported first-hand witness

1:02:44

to something wrapped in a sheet

1:02:46

in the Winfield family car on

1:02:49

the night Bromman disappeared. Maddie

1:02:52

and I did try to confirm

1:02:54

something while talking to Andy and

1:02:56

Michelle Reid, Bromman's brother and sister-in-law

1:02:58

respectively, on May 31. I

1:03:02

asked Andy and Michelle some

1:03:04

specific further questions about the

1:03:06

afternoon of John's unexpected arrival

1:03:08

at their home in the Shire south of

1:03:10

Sydney on the afternoon of Monday, May 17,

1:03:16

Do you recall seeing any sheets?

1:03:20

No, no, there was nothing in the

1:03:22

boot. Michelle, I

1:03:24

just want to ask you to think

1:03:26

about the next question and just

1:03:28

really search your memory. Andy's

1:03:31

referred to there being some pillowcases

1:03:35

and Maddie asked you what colour they

1:03:37

were. Do you recall

1:03:39

the pillowcases? I do. They

1:03:41

were light. I'll agree with Andrew.

1:03:44

They weren't naively or brown.

1:03:46

They were just light coloured

1:03:49

pillowcases, just ordinary pillowcases. Do

1:03:52

you recall seeing any sheets in

1:03:54

the car? No,

1:03:57

I was surprised because there

1:03:59

was nothing. a

1:10:00

break and that Lynne had told him not

1:10:02

to worry about her. Here's

1:10:05

Lynne's brother Greg Sims and his

1:10:07

very supportive wife, Marilyn. We've

1:10:10

been in touch for many years, leading

1:10:12

up to the teachers' pairs and for

1:10:14

the six years since that podcast launched.

1:10:18

We've become close friends through many

1:10:20

ups and downs. Well

1:10:22

waiting for the judges to come out,

1:10:25

their verdict if you want to call it that,

1:10:27

very tense and it's

1:10:29

the longest minute I've had in my life.

1:10:33

Waiting and listening, we

1:10:35

are extremely happy and

1:10:37

the law has done the right thing in

1:10:39

our minds. And what do you

1:10:41

hope Chris Dawson does now? I

1:10:44

hope he sits back in his cell and enjoys

1:10:46

the next 20 years. We're

1:10:49

very grateful that justice has been done

1:10:51

as far as we're concerned twice over

1:10:53

now. All

1:10:58

right, he turned. He

1:11:06

must be thinking, what is going on? Over

1:11:11

a Saturday and Sunday in mid-June, Dave

1:11:13

Murray, Claire Harvey and I tried to

1:11:15

locate someone with a 1987 Ford Falcon

1:11:17

XF sedan. Someone

1:11:22

who wouldn't mind it being featured

1:11:24

in a true crime podcast and in

1:11:26

accompanying videos. The

1:11:29

car needed to have automatic transmission,

1:11:32

but we were not going to be fussy about the

1:11:34

colour. John and

1:11:36

Bronwyn Winfield's Ford Falcon XF

1:11:38

sedan of that vintage was

1:11:40

white. Finally, Dave

1:11:43

found a blue one in the city

1:11:45

of Ipswich about a 30 minute drive

1:11:47

from my house closer to Brisbane. Bianca

1:11:50

Famarcas from the Sydney office of

1:11:53

the Australian flew to Brisbane on

1:11:55

Monday morning. Bianca is

1:11:57

the voice of Bronwyn in this podcast

1:11:59

series. in

1:14:00

very easily and we placed it the

1:14:02

way Jude had described it. There's

1:14:05

plenty of room in here. Nose

1:14:08

first with fins

1:14:11

towards the back door. And

1:14:18

yeah once again that's gone in very easily. So

1:14:21

you could potentially fit in a board up

1:14:24

to close

1:14:26

to seven foot. Yeah you could

1:14:28

even go longer if you could turn it over and put

1:14:30

the nose on the dash and the back of it on

1:14:32

the back bench. Looks

1:14:37

like there's plenty of room there

1:14:39

to put the board in over the top

1:14:41

and have somebody stretched out across the back.

1:14:47

And the board actually in that position it

1:14:49

gives a bit of cover for

1:14:52

someone looking in from the other direction. The

1:14:56

next bit was the most challenging. Three

1:14:59

middle-aged white males needed to literally

1:15:01

wrap Bianca up in a sheet

1:15:04

and then pick her up and place her in

1:15:06

the back of the car. We

1:15:09

needed then to cover her head

1:15:11

and we needed to see if she would

1:15:13

fit with the surfboard in the way Jude

1:15:15

had described it. I wanted

1:15:18

to wrap your head

1:15:20

as well but I'm worried

1:15:23

about you breathing. Well

1:15:26

put it in like a case over your feet. Are

1:15:29

you thinking of a case for her head? Ah look

1:15:31

it's probably it's not going to be

1:15:33

very pleasant is it? Why

1:15:35

do you lie it flat and roll me in?

1:15:38

Yeah right okay.

1:15:43

Actually Sean would you be able to help

1:15:45

Dave at the torso end?

1:15:47

Yeah. You

1:15:50

went straight in. Yeah. And there's plenty of room.

1:15:53

Like a glove. It's

1:15:55

like she's seated but with

1:15:57

the legs stretched out through.

1:16:01

towards the seatbelt holders on

1:16:03

the front seat. Definitely

1:16:06

works. And you're not even

1:16:09

pushed up. Can you describe how

1:16:11

you are sitting? I'm in

1:16:14

the left hand back seat, feet up on

1:16:16

the console. I'm sitting like you

1:16:18

would sit on a long drive down the coast. You're

1:16:21

wrapped in this bed sheet from home. That

1:16:24

now is covered in a bit of grass because we had to roll

1:16:26

you in it. I

1:16:30

think what we're not properly representing is

1:16:32

the head. We

1:16:35

could just do a tie for a second. We

1:16:39

should photograph it with the doors closed. It's

1:16:44

going to shut these doors. Are you still

1:16:46

okay? Yeah. Shaun

1:16:52

is great with the technology and

1:16:54

gizmos. He flew the

1:16:56

drone to film down into the car.

1:17:01

I'm just panning around the car with

1:17:03

the drone so you can get several

1:17:05

different angles. You

1:17:09

can see quite clearly into the cabin from this height, which

1:17:13

we're trying to replicate the angle of Jude's deck

1:17:17

down onto the street. Covering

1:17:19

these different angles shows us probably

1:17:22

the car as it came into view all the

1:17:24

way around to as it faded out of

1:17:27

view going down the street. You

1:17:30

could see elevations if you look, because

1:17:32

Jude describes sitting on the deck upstairs,

1:17:34

you have a little balcony and a

1:17:37

lamp that was on and she's looking

1:17:39

down. And she said

1:17:41

previously during daylight hours, she

1:17:44

could see into pretty much every car

1:17:46

that went past. And her friend Kerry told me that

1:17:48

when she would sit up there, she

1:17:51

also saw into cars. And

1:17:54

at night, you wouldn't usually be able to

1:17:56

see into the car, but the interior light

1:17:58

is on, as described. by

1:18:01

Jude. This exercise

1:18:03

is really just to see

1:18:06

if we can fit a

1:18:08

six foot plus surfboard into the car

1:18:11

to see if we can fit a

1:18:14

woman the same height and

1:18:16

very similar built to Bromo in the

1:18:18

car at the same time. That's Bianca.

1:18:21

We've done that we've reproduced both

1:18:23

those things. She says she

1:18:26

saw a vehicle,

1:18:28

John's vehicle and John driving it

1:18:30

and what she describes as a mummy

1:18:33

that looked like a wrapped body in

1:18:35

the back suit. The

1:18:38

exercise went smoothly and

1:18:40

it was eerie seeing the shape

1:18:42

of a body in a car. Our

1:18:44

friend Bianca wrapped in a

1:18:46

light colored sheet and positioned similarly to

1:18:48

how Jude was sure she had seen

1:18:51

it. After Shawn

1:18:53

and Dave had finished taking photographs

1:18:55

and film it was time to

1:18:57

rescue the brilliant Bianca. Bianca

1:18:59

we're gonna free you from the pillowcase. I

1:19:02

think we can get you out of the back seat now and unwrap

1:19:05

you from the sheet

1:19:08

that I'll need to give

1:19:10

a good wash when I get home. Thank

1:19:14

you. It's okay. How you feeling? A

1:19:17

very intense experience. I was

1:19:19

expecting this to take hours

1:19:21

you know of repositioning of

1:19:23

moving around but it

1:19:26

just slotted right in. Yeah you

1:19:29

fit in easily and there's plenty

1:19:31

of space the surfboards over your

1:19:34

lower torso your legs you're

1:19:37

wrapped up. I mean we've

1:19:39

done as much as we can

1:19:41

to try to reproduce what Jude has described to me.

1:19:44

One swift motion and

1:19:46

I was here. Bronwyn

1:20:01

is written and investigated by me,

1:20:04

Headley Thomas, as a podcast

1:20:06

production for The Australian. If

1:20:08

anyone has information which

1:20:11

may help solve this

1:20:13

cold case, please contact

1:20:15

me confidentially by emailing

1:20:17

bronwyn at the australian.com.au.

1:20:21

You can read more about

1:20:23

this case and see a

1:20:25

range of photographs and other

1:20:28

artwork at the website bronwynpodcast.com.

1:20:31

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Harvey, Kristin Amiet, Joshua

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