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R-A-K-U-T-E-N. When

1:02

entering a new year, it's important for me to

1:04

not just make it all about setting lofty resolutions.

1:06

I also like to just be

1:09

curious about what is and isn't working in

1:11

my life and think about creative problem solving.

1:14

Approaching challenges like they're a puzzle to solve

1:16

often makes them less daunting and also gives

1:18

me space to think outside the box. That

1:21

curiosity is also why I'm so

1:23

drawn to creative and fun problem

1:25

solving games like June's Journey. In

1:27

June's Journey, you play as the elegant June

1:30

Parker as she embarks on a quest to

1:32

solve her sister's murder and uncover her family's

1:34

many secrets. The game is set

1:36

in the Roaring Twenties and you get to

1:38

put your detective skills to the test as

1:40

you go through chapters of hidden object scenes.

1:42

The more objects you find, the more secrets

1:44

you discover. June's Journey is definitely a

1:46

game I feel actively involved in while I'm playing

1:48

and I just think it's so fun to move

1:51

through the levels to solve this case and

1:53

reveal secrets. Like I said, the new year

1:55

is all about creative problem solving for me,

1:57

plus I get a bit of my competitive

1:59

energy out. Racing Against the Clock

2:01

and the story of the game itself

2:03

is so interesting, so can you crack

2:05

the case? Download: June Journey for Free

2:08

today on Ios or Android or play

2:10

on Pc through Faith Became. A

2:45

glorious occasion. We. Have

2:48

today! This is truly tremendous. Today

2:50

we're joined by James Leery and.

2:53

I personally could not be happier. What a time

2:55

to be alive! Through we we waited. for

2:57

this moment. We've waited for this moment Said.

2:59

It's aims to also do go by James. I

3:01

feel like folks have referred to you and many

3:04

different ways. To protect the So yes

3:06

I do. I'm. I

3:08

grew up a Jimmy because I'm from

3:10

the east coast. Ah so I grew

3:12

up Jimmy. But ah when I got

3:14

into Sag there was already a Jimmy

3:16

Leery so that I became James. So

3:18

I know like the way I judges

3:20

that people who call me jimmy and

3:22

it doesn't sound weird are people who

3:24

I knew pre Nineteen Ninety Six. Ah

3:26

guys out there are a very there

3:28

are a few select people realizing that

3:30

afterwards who can call me Jimmy and

3:32

it doesn't sound weird. Ah the the

3:34

send it. And

3:37

and argued Buber. You both are are free

3:39

to call me Jimmy. Wow

3:41

wow I don't know right now as. We

3:45

are both from the east coast two thirds

3:47

of com that are out i last. ah

3:49

anyway as that he was a we are

3:51

so happy that has you without a phone

3:54

out of my i appreciate a Br Br.

3:56

We probably could do six i six part

3:58

interview with you but we're. Right to

4:00

keep it to ask you waste pressing

4:03

puts. Out.

4:05

But I am I supposed? Since.

4:08

We are inside of Slayers right now.

4:10

Perhaps the place to start though I'm

4:12

certain we were Your mind up all

4:14

over an arm and your journey with

4:16

Buffy and. It's how. You.

4:19

Found out about this project Slayers Am at

4:21

you know was it already being written with

4:23

it's to like did they say to are

4:25

you going to come on board and then

4:27

right Clem in. What was of arms?

4:30

Yeah, so I'm assuming you mean slayers

4:32

a buffer store as a lot of

4:34

Mississippi. Exclusive Elect The

4:37

very long time I've sent me that one

4:39

that slob as is under. Contract

4:42

Obligation to have No. So I

4:44

have been good friends with Christopher

4:46

Golden and Ever Benson for a

4:49

very, very long time. I'm obviously

4:51

I met Amber on the set.

4:54

When. She was always such a

4:56

delightful, delightful person Arms and I

4:59

ended up. Working.

5:01

With. Her and for her she cast me

5:03

and a show and of movie she did

5:06

called Lovers Liars and Lunatics way back in

5:08

like. Six. Or

5:10

five or six am somewhere around there.

5:12

So and then, of course gonna. We've

5:14

kept in touch over conventions over the

5:16

years and she's just always been one

5:19

of my most favorite people on the

5:21

planet. Arms and Chris I met doing

5:23

a convention in the Catskills. At

5:26

the Friar Tuck in. Wow.

5:29

I was. I'm sitting in the

5:31

Catskills right now. Right now. I'm

5:33

right now. We're paying you

5:35

see in a corner of enough

5:37

of her And let me tell

5:39

you, this place heads was probably

5:41

popular in about nineteen Fifty six.

5:45

So. it was a crazy convention and

5:47

ah christened i got to be good

5:50

good friends during that we did a

5:52

charity auction together and i'm so we've

5:54

just out you know we've run into

5:56

each other over the years and kept

5:58

in touch and i think he was

6:00

chris who emailed me one day and

6:02

said, hey, we've got

6:05

this thing coming up, would you be willing

6:07

to maybe reprise Clem for an audio thing?

6:09

And I was like, sure, of course

6:11

I would, absolutely. And he was like, yeah, Amber and

6:13

I are writing, and I was like, yes. And

6:17

I was very much expecting just to be in,

6:19

you know, just a little bit. And

6:21

then some time went by and some more time went

6:23

by and it got closer and closer. Then

6:26

he sent me the script and

6:29

I was already on board. I

6:32

would do one line for them. I

6:35

would stand in the background and just breathe heavy if they

6:37

wanted me to. So

6:41

when I got the scripts, I started reading them and I was

6:43

like, wait, hold on,

6:45

wait a second. And yeah, they

6:47

made me like a main character. So I

6:49

was all on board and it was such

6:51

a great, a

6:56

joy to read and I'm so thankful to both of them. And

6:59

of course to Audible and all the amazing people

7:01

over there. But yeah, they

7:03

really just threw me a bone. And I

7:05

think it's because they believed in me, I

7:08

think more than I believed in myself. And they

7:10

knew that Clem could

7:12

be part of the Scooby. So thankful.

7:16

It's really exciting to get

7:19

to experience as long

7:21

time fans of the

7:23

universe. Clem

7:26

is like a fan favorite with,

7:29

relatively if you look at the cast across

7:33

the entire television series, Clem

7:35

is relatively, you know.

7:37

Eight episodes. Is it

7:39

eight? I would have

7:41

guessed higher because he takes up so much room

7:43

in my heart. Same, same. So

7:47

it's just like one of, there's so many

7:49

magical things about this series. And one of

7:51

them to me really is just getting to

7:53

experience so much more of Clem. Getting

7:56

ready to talk to you. I was just thinking about

7:58

like how cool it is. is

8:00

that Clem really brings the warmth, you

8:03

know, to this series more than like plenty

8:05

of levity and welcome. But

8:08

I but I feel like you really

8:10

got to like stretch your

8:13

performance legs in terms of like

8:16

the the like warm fuzzies like

8:18

it's so awesome

8:20

and just like such an enchanting

8:23

expansion of the character. This is

8:25

not a question. It's just a compliment. Thank you

8:27

so much. I you know, I agree

8:29

with you 100% and you

8:32

know, it's not they

8:35

wrote such amazing stuff. And I think because

8:37

I've known them for so long, and we

8:39

have all been on stages together, and they

8:41

have seen me do a million

8:44

different things, I think they understood that,

8:46

you know, Clem

8:48

is kind of a he's definitely a

8:50

part of me. And

8:54

they just ran with it. And I loved

8:56

I loved being sort of that heart

9:00

of the show if he were the

9:02

or the show, I'll call

9:04

it a show. But

9:07

it was it was so great. And I was

9:09

so thankful to them that they trusted me with

9:11

that, that they trusted, you know,

9:13

because I kind of retired from acting a while

9:15

ago. And they trusted that I could

9:17

still bring it. And I was so so happy for

9:20

that. And it was just so much fun. Like it,

9:23

it was just such a treat that entire

9:25

week was I came

9:27

home and I was like almost depressed. It's

9:30

like, Oh, why can't I do that every

9:32

day? It was just

9:34

so much fun. And we had such a

9:36

great time. And yeah,

9:38

I can't speak highly enough.

9:41

And AC Weiland, who was

9:43

the co director and producer. And again,

9:46

all the audible people, especially the audible UK

9:48

people who were there, they everyone was just

9:50

so so supportive. And I just

9:53

felt really supported so that whatever

9:56

work was being done, I was really confident

9:58

with so and thank you for that. I

10:01

love the character and yeah, I only

10:03

did six episodes in season six and

10:05

two in season seven and I

10:07

can't believe that 22

10:11

years later. I'm still Here,

10:14

you know never in my wildest dreams

10:16

what I have ever have imagined There's

10:20

there's something about because I was thinking the

10:22

same thing Jenny that you Give

10:24

voice to just done is like Clemmis

10:27

such a massive James I think you

10:29

saw recently we posted about our next

10:31

Buffy prom and we've done this Buffy

10:34

for a handful of years And

10:36

people cosplay all over the place and they do

10:38

you know Cordelia and the homecoming dress and on

10:40

and on and I

10:43

am as soon as we wrap this interview.

10:45

I am going to send to you my

10:49

favorite cosplay of all Which was

10:51

someone who came as Clemm and they oh

10:53

my gosh hours like Sewing

10:56

the folds in there like hoodie there

10:58

were kittens and cards. No way

11:00

It was like epic epic epic and

11:02

Clemm is such just he's such a

11:05

massive part of our hearts in the

11:07

show And one

11:09

of the questions that I didn't get to ask you when

11:11

we were together Had comic-con that

11:13

I so desperately wanted to well about

11:16

yeah, I'm tricky tricky

11:20

There's a lot happening that day Clemm

11:25

always had a depth there was a depth

11:27

there, but this series Investigates it

11:29

for the first time and I I

11:31

think we would all love to hear what

11:34

that was like for you approaching the character

11:36

with this These new

11:38

facets, you know Yeah,

11:40

absolutely. Um, you know it it's

11:43

funny Uh The

11:46

original character I think had a lot

11:48

of heart built into it You know

11:50

He was only supposed to be a five-line

11:52

character in one episode and for whatever reason the

11:55

fans really responded to it And

11:57

they just kept bringing me back in season six as we

11:59

all know is a dark

12:01

season. And

12:04

I kind of lucked

12:06

out in that, you

12:08

know, the timing was right and

12:10

my particular sensibilities being

12:13

primarily a comedian and knowing

12:15

the show, it's one

12:17

of my favorite TV shows of all time. You

12:19

know, I've said this before, when I moved to

12:21

Los Angeles, it was one of the top five

12:23

shows I wanted to work on. Probably

12:26

in the top two. I loved Buffy.

12:28

I mean, I was a fan from, I think

12:31

I started watching halfway through season one and I

12:34

was kind of like, and

12:38

then season two hit and I was like, I

12:40

am hooked from season two

12:42

forward. I

12:44

was in. So I knew the show and I

12:46

knew that a lot

12:49

of times the demons were more human than the

12:51

humans. And that's what I

12:53

tried to play. And luckily it worked out. So

12:56

I think there was that heart built in

12:58

by people like Jane Espenson and Steven DeKnight

13:01

and Drew Goddard, Drew

13:04

Greenberg, a lot

13:06

of the writers who kept bringing the character back

13:08

to just bring a little levity and a little

13:11

heart. And then Chris and Amber just ran with

13:13

it. And so every time I

13:15

got to read a page that was something

13:17

new, especially doing some of the more emotional

13:19

stuff for Clem, you know, was really kind

13:22

of impactful for me. You

13:25

know, the kitten stuff has always been funny,

13:28

but also strikes true to my heart because

13:30

I'm a recovering addict and alcoholic.

13:34

And I don't intend to bring that to a role,

13:36

but I don't know that I can necessarily

13:38

help it. So I'm

13:40

rambling. I don't know if that answered your question

13:42

at all. No, it did. I

13:44

mean, especially because I

13:47

think that the depth of it

13:49

is not only in the sort of

13:51

reveal that Clem has this like

13:54

sadness inside of him, but

13:56

also I took special note of

13:59

how Hidden conversation was

14:01

had in this specifically, especially

14:03

with Giles. There's a moment

14:05

where sales really like lifts

14:07

you up as an ally

14:09

in some that bell incredibly

14:11

intentional and very specific. Yeah,

14:13

definitely I'm And also just to

14:15

be able to do a scene was

14:17

being culpable. At

14:20

least do it Had: Ah, but

14:22

you know I knew him onset.

14:24

I've known him from conventions but

14:26

I never got a chance to

14:28

work with him and that was

14:30

below a I'd ever worked with.

14:32

Charisma: I'd never worked with Juliet.

14:34

I recently worked with Emma like

14:36

very small. I'm zoom to get

14:38

to work with them because it

14:40

as you know we we. Did

14:43

it as if it was a staged

14:45

reading. so we were all in the

14:47

same room. Tony was piped in from

14:49

England. I'm. So. We got

14:52

to really you know he was the was on

14:54

videos. We got to see each other's reactions and

14:56

stuff so that was really awesome. It was such

14:58

a such a privilege! It was really great. It's

15:01

so interesting. As. To people

15:03

who have watched the Selves, it's like

15:05

the television series or time we have

15:07

had the kind of like very carefully

15:09

thread out a lick week who. Knows.

15:12

Each other Because in our minds it's like support

15:14

and ensemble cast and they all know each other.

15:16

And you're all my best friends. And as that

15:19

yes, yeah thriller that can I ask for? Yeah,

15:21

spare, whose tell? Me

15:23

maybe. Third, Of

15:26

this cat who that you worked with. The.

15:28

Most since Marsans. Yeah,

15:30

definitely James I'm and then

15:32

second would be Michelle Trachtenberg.

15:36

Thermometer I worked with among heir apparent

15:39

how are we allowed to done and

15:41

clam as in our gotten always run

15:43

all the so much for the so

15:46

much was assessed. ah. Did.

15:48

You make our friendship like on the

15:50

Sammy we've heard about. Amber and Crests

15:52

obviously meant I'd say has actually crafted

15:54

this question And I've I've ripped off

15:56

her joke just a moment ago. Ah,

15:59

But she said his you making. Lasting friendships on the

16:01

set, a puppy or the set of

16:03

players parenthetically best friends second. Athena,

16:05

I have a job you know any

16:07

so our sure ah but you know

16:09

the simply is. As you know, film

16:12

sets are both especially. Tv sets are

16:14

very strange, especially if you're not. You.

16:16

Know in the show cast your

16:18

kind of showing up as a

16:20

journeymen actor actress. And

16:23

keep your job is to come in

16:25

and do your job and be professional

16:27

and then leave and as you get

16:29

to keep coming back that's that's awesome

16:31

and yeah you can build still works

16:33

friendships. But. I'm not. Call.

16:36

And. Sarah Michelle up Go

16:39

to your to go have

16:41

the timeliness and success but

16:43

we're it really started to

16:45

friendships really did form was

16:47

in the convention circuit and

16:49

I'll get back to see

16:51

as Ninety Ninety Six was

16:53

yesterday right? Exactly

16:55

four years ago. yes and exam

16:57

and crannies. I saw us a

16:59

citizen. I think my first convention

17:01

was it was after my first

17:03

season so I decisions. I often

17:05

say it's like losing your virginity

17:07

to a porn star. My first

17:09

convention ever was San Diego Comic

17:11

Con. Aren't Miles God. And

17:14

while it was bird and. A

17:17

lot for the Netflix. Five to six

17:19

years was sort of the site in

17:22

the heyday of Buffy conventions or the

17:24

show. It just got off the air

17:26

in two thousand and three and then

17:28

it just exploded. One year I did.

17:30

I think Fourteen cards. Ah

17:33

yeah, was nuts and in doing

17:35

that, that's where those friendships started

17:37

to form. You know I was.

17:39

It comes with James and it

17:41

is Mallet Mark loots and. Amber

17:44

And. Ever. Coffee old

17:46

and at how to ski. or

17:49

a t camden toy and

17:51

all his you just as

17:53

we became this weird traveling

17:55

circus ah been a clear

17:57

kramer a jealous of would

17:59

wear And you know all the but

18:01

all that the weed inverse people yeah,

18:03

we were all just thrown into these

18:05

crazy circumstances jay august Just

18:09

so many more people I can't even you know pretty

18:11

much everyone you could think of Except

18:14

for The you

18:16

know top top folks and

18:20

that's where the friendships really started to form because

18:22

we were oftentimes in cities we didn't know and

18:25

For three to four days at a time

18:27

and yeah, we've had some some great times

18:29

I once had to sneak out of a Paris

18:32

hotel with Danny strong And

18:34

get on a subway Before the

18:36

hotel people realized that the con promoters had

18:39

not paid our bill And

18:42

we didn't want to get stuck with the bill because it

18:45

was on the Champs-Élysées and it was expensive So

18:47

we all snuck out and I'll never forget.

18:49

We're walking down like we So

18:53

it was Rebecca Lamorte, Jenny

18:55

Callender, Tom Link, Danny

18:58

Strong, Bailey Chase, myself, all

19:01

our respective partners And

19:05

we had gotten a phone call in the middle of the night

19:07

that said the promoter didn't pay the bill you have to get

19:09

out Or else they're gonna stick

19:11

you for the bill We

19:14

were like whoa None of us are

19:16

paying this bill so we

19:18

all packed our stuff and The

19:21

hope if I don't know if you've ever been to

19:23

Europe I'm just maybe maybe not most

19:25

of the hotels there have teeny tiny elevators

19:28

Oh, yeah, two people and they're

19:30

very very slow and they were like

19:32

seven of eight of us with all our luggage In

19:36

a four-story hotel. So what we would none of us could fit

19:38

in the elevator So what we did it like 6 a.m. 7

19:40

a.m We

19:42

all packed up our crap real super fast and

19:45

we got down to like the first floor landing

19:48

So it was a one flight of stairs into

19:50

the lobby out the yeah. Yeah, we're

19:52

all there with all our bags We're like, all

19:54

right We're waiting for a phone call because one

19:57

of our managers had gotten a person to

19:59

to live in Paris to come up with a

20:01

car that we could all throw our baggage into

20:04

but that would fill the car then we had

20:06

to listen to the trains the underground station. So

20:10

we finally get the call and we're like all

20:12

right one two three go and we all just

20:14

pick up our bags and haul ass through the

20:16

lobby and everyone we're like straight

20:18

ahead don't talk to anybody don't listen to anyone

20:20

if someone starts yelling at you ignore them we

20:23

bolt out the front door throw our

20:25

bags in she takes off and we

20:27

start walking down the street to get

20:30

on the underground station. Oh incredible. So

20:32

yes experiences like that that are just

20:34

like the crazy times we

20:36

had traveling the world that made us kind

20:38

of this weird family. Well

20:41

and like the con

20:43

of it all I mean it's something

20:45

that we have very little experience with

20:47

we've really like we've been to con-esque

20:49

environments except for one and one was

20:51

like real con and it was in

20:53

London and it was the first time

20:55

we met James Marsers and which one is the

20:59

vampire ball in London. Oh so one of

21:01

was it Sean Harry's? Yeah

21:03

that was yeah yeah yeah um yeah um

21:06

and we had no James

21:08

uh Marsers thought we were hysterical because we

21:10

were like just green and

21:13

exhausted by like halfway through day one

21:15

he's like first con and you know. Oh

21:17

boy well especially the

21:19

London like Brits do

21:22

it different than everyone else those

21:24

cons are insane. We we

21:26

had no idea what to expect but

21:28

you know it it also

21:30

gave I think both Jenny and I a

21:32

whole different kind of respect for what you

21:34

all are doing and obviously like it's

21:37

incredible to interact with with

21:39

people who love the work and everything

21:41

but it is also such incredibly hard

21:43

work to be that present in that

21:45

capacity um so I just like I

21:47

have to give for like three days

21:49

straight right with like you know a

21:51

constant flow of individuals. It's just really

21:54

it's really incredible and it's a really

21:56

wonderful thing that you all do to

21:58

you know thank you so many of folks

22:00

who love the show the chance to interact with

22:02

you but just saying I see you. Oh well

22:04

thank you I appreciate that. You'll see. No

22:08

there I have always loved cons

22:10

I if you can't tell I'm a natural

22:12

extrovert so I oftentimes gain

22:14

energy from interactions like that. No at

22:16

the end I'm exhausted and

22:19

is it's hard work yes it's hard is it

22:21

roofing a house in Texas in August? No. But

22:25

there is you are giving a little bit of yourself to each and

22:27

every person I think at least if you're

22:29

doing it right and

22:31

it's you know I've always

22:34

approached it haven't

22:36

always acted like it but I've approached it as

22:38

a privilege that I get to

22:40

do this because I'm a fan I'm a fan of

22:42

so many things like I have gotten to meet people

22:44

doing cons especially early on for

22:46

show like I grew

22:49

up watching I'm old I grew up watching

22:51

Buck Rogers and Battlestar Galactica and A-Team and

22:54

the incredible Hulk and all these shows and

22:56

movies that meant so much to me as

22:58

a kid and a part of the reason

23:00

why I became an actor I got

23:03

to meet all these people and hang

23:06

out with them and listen

23:08

to their stories and so to me

23:10

that is what has been the most

23:12

fun and watching people like

23:15

LeVar Burton or you know

23:17

I always admired James Marsters

23:20

for his ability to really connect with each

23:22

and every fan even if

23:24

he's only got 10 or 15 seconds he manages

23:26

to connect with everybody and I

23:29

took that to heart in

23:31

that you know this this

23:33

interaction means something and it also

23:36

means something to me so

23:39

yeah but the British conventions are a different

23:41

beast the first one I ever did like

23:43

I had done some American ones and they

23:45

were cool and the first British one

23:47

I did I came out on stage in front of like

23:49

2,500 people and it was like I was Axl Rose I

23:53

was like a whole other

23:57

second and then it was you know

24:00

solid days of Guinness and fish and chips and

24:04

I got home jet lagged having to go

24:06

to work at Buka de Beppo as a

24:09

waiter I was like hi people

24:12

were screaming for me no no

24:15

I'll have your lemon chicken right up this

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show is sponsored by better help well

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buffering free. While

27:38

we're in Con Town, I

27:40

believe that Christopher told us when we talked

27:43

to him that your

27:45

kids were at Comic Con

27:47

this year for the slayers.

27:50

Was this like the first time because of you were telling

27:52

us their ages and it sounds like maybe they

27:57

were not probably watching genre.

28:00

or dramedies. No.

28:02

Buffy was airing. Was this the first time they got to

28:04

experience, you know, Buffy mania,

28:07

chlamania? Yes

28:09

and no. So my eldest son, who

28:11

is about to be 24, he

28:14

was very, very young. But

28:17

I took him to convince, you know, we took him to

28:19

a lot of conventions when I was younger. Well,

28:22

I was younger, of course. She was

28:24

younger. But he doesn't

28:26

really remember a lot of them because he

28:28

was like five, six, seven. And

28:32

then he'd been to a few.

28:34

My youngest, Owen, had never really

28:36

been. Again, he'd been to one

28:38

or two, but he was super young. So

28:40

this was the first time they had seen

28:43

anything like that. It's

28:45

also kind of the first time

28:47

I've ever been involved in anything like that. I'd

28:51

never had a stylist. I'd never had

28:53

a wardrobe person. Someone

28:55

came to my hotel and did makeup on me

28:57

that morning. That never happened before.

29:01

So, yeah, it was very interesting for them

29:03

to see. I

29:06

don't think they knew quite what to expect. I

29:09

think they both thought it was pretty cool. But

29:11

they're also like, why is

29:13

everyone making a big deal out of dad? It's

29:16

funny because he barks a lot. It's

29:21

funny, though, because so I

29:24

just had like a few minutes with Owen. Yeah,

29:27

the younger one. Yeah. And like,

29:29

you know, like I feel

29:31

like perhaps that's what you are receiving on

29:34

your end. But like what Owen said to

29:36

me and the person I was with was

29:38

just like this, like, I'm so proud of

29:40

him. I mean, literally like

29:42

I left being like I'm the

29:45

biggest fan of Owen, actually. He's my

29:47

favorite man. Most people are. He's

29:50

yeah. I didn't get

29:52

to talk to your eldest. Yeah,

29:54

he was he was in the midst of having

29:56

to do a school project. He's

29:59

a senior. at UT as a history

30:01

major and he

30:04

kind of forgot that that trip was coming

30:06

up and maybe procrastinate it a little bit

30:08

on a paper he was supposed to have

30:10

done so he spent a lot

30:12

of that trip doing a paper. They just

30:14

they seem very very proud of you. It

30:17

was just very sweet to see that angle.

30:19

Yeah they're funny,

30:24

they're two very different kids and I'm so

30:26

very proud of both of them you

30:29

know they've had some hardship in their lives and I just

30:32

you know it I think sometimes

30:35

it's weird because they both do theater and

30:37

they both you know occasionally will come up

30:39

who their dad is and they've had to

30:41

kind of shoulder that from both fellow

30:44

students and teachers which

30:47

is a little weird. I think a

30:49

teacher comes up is like wait your dad was on

30:52

TV yeah oh my god it's my favorite TV show

30:54

ever and they're like you're my algebra teacher dude what

30:56

are you talking about? Not

30:58

here for this power dynamic

31:00

shift at all. How about

31:03

you get me an A?

31:05

I'll get you an autograph.

31:07

You mentioned never having had a makeup

31:11

or wardrobe person show up before con

31:13

and situations like that but of course

31:15

on the flip side we imagine that

31:17

in the television series you spent

31:19

more time in the makeup chair

31:21

than most anyone. There are a

31:24

few people who did spend more time

31:28

so I was lucky in

31:30

that when they finally figured

31:32

out how to do the appliance they got

31:34

it down to about two and a half

31:36

hours which oh wow really yeah so it

31:38

was in

31:41

four pieces four four

31:45

people it

31:47

was a cowl that came from like here

31:49

back then they

31:52

would put the ears on and then they

31:54

would do the whole space which came down

31:56

to about here okay and the face part

31:58

was the toughest part. because it had to be

32:00

glued to every bit of

32:02

my face so that it would move. And

32:05

it was film latex, so it was really

32:07

light. And

32:10

then they would have to spend time airbrushing

32:12

it, painting it, putting all the little touches. But

32:14

they got that down to about two and a half hours. You

32:18

know, people like George Hertzberg, who played

32:20

Adam, five hours, every

32:23

time. Oh, my lord. Luckily

32:26

for me, the hands were, and

32:29

the arms were gloves. So

32:31

I could take them on and off. I

32:34

guess all those extra folds made it possible

32:36

for it not to have to be adhered

32:38

to your body as touches. Yeah, so basically what would

32:41

happen is they would put the whole thing up to heat,

32:43

because I had to do arm casts, and

32:45

I did a full head cast. But what

32:47

they did was they put it up here

32:49

and were like, just clamp. If you notice,

32:51

Clem always walks around kind of like this.

32:55

And does a lot of stuff like this. And it's

32:57

because I was clamping that here so that they didn't

32:59

have to attach it. So that

33:02

after each take, I could take them off.

33:04

Because they were made out of silicone, and

33:06

they were very heavy. Oh, wow. And the

33:08

nails, because silicone doesn't adhere

33:11

to anything, the nails

33:13

would constantly pop off. So

33:15

they would constantly have any reapply at the nails. But

33:17

I could take those off. Now, an

33:19

interesting tidbit. The first time we did it,

33:22

they didn't exactly know how it was gonna go

33:24

on. And the way that,

33:27

because silicone dry is

33:29

very sticky. Can't

33:32

get your, so the first time

33:34

we did it, it was

33:36

with a prodigious amount of KY

33:38

jelly. Sure, yeah,

33:40

I mean, it's the right tool for the

33:42

job. The sound of my arm going in,

33:45

and then out of it was

33:48

something for porn up. Yeah,

33:52

yeah, that sounds like none of our

33:54

business. Luckily,

33:56

later on, they figured out that baby powder

33:58

worked just as well. Oh my god.

34:00

Oh no. So, yes. I

34:03

hope you got a chance to talk to Trixie Mattel

34:06

at some... did you get to talk to Trixie Mattel

34:08

at the after ground? No, I didn't. She's

34:11

just an infamous drag queen and you were

34:13

talking about your nails popping off. I was

34:15

like, man, Clem and Trixie talking about their,

34:18

you know, like what a... we would all

34:20

pay to see that. I'll tell you about

34:22

it. Oh, I bet. Yes.

34:24

Clem would have a blast. No,

34:27

so I was going to say, like people like George,

34:30

you know, they were in for five hours. It

34:32

was from his torso up and

34:34

his arm wouldn't come off. So he had

34:36

to have people help him pee. Sorry,

34:39

George. I

34:42

let that... I bulged that. Oh

34:45

George. Oh my goodness. We

34:48

really have not given fair credit to

34:50

the work done to give us Adam.

34:52

George, we appreciate your sacrifice. Yeah. How?

34:56

Jenny, I saw your wind up face

34:58

down there. Uh oh. Oh, yeah.

35:01

Well, I was wondering

35:03

if you have the inside scoop and

35:06

feel like you can share it. Is

35:08

somebody on the

35:11

Flayers creative team or is it perhaps you

35:14

yourself that

35:16

is a like retired

35:19

snack aficionado? Right. You've

35:21

got like a very specific chocolate chip

35:23

cookie. Chiparoos and a

35:25

brand of grape soda. I'm going

35:28

to go with Christopher Golden though. He's

35:31

the guy... We missed our opportunity. We missed

35:33

it. I'm pretty sure it's Chris. Yeah.

35:36

Yeah. Would you consider

35:38

sharing with us your personal snack

35:40

preferences? No pressure. Okay.

35:43

All right. I've got

35:45

a few. I am a... I love chips, potato

35:48

chips. I also love the British chip, a

35:50

french fry. I

35:53

love salt and vinegar. And

35:57

my wife makes fun of me because

35:59

as a... child I was always served a

36:01

sandwich like whether it was on Wonder Bread

36:04

or whatever a sandwich with

36:06

potato chips some type of chip so

36:08

I cannot eat a sandwich without

36:11

some type of chip mm-hmm and

36:13

she's like what is wrong with

36:15

you sometimes I will take the

36:17

chip and put it on the

36:20

sandwich that's appropriate good man good

36:22

man no Mike Lem is a fan

36:24

favorite coming from the right place yep

36:27

so I love potato chips I'm much

36:29

more of a salty like snack person

36:31

so potato chips french fries snack

36:35

wise that's kind of what I go for although

36:37

I have started to develop a sweet

36:40

tooth chips ahoy

36:42

cookies with milk and I I love

36:47

apple and pumpkin two very different pies

36:49

honestly I also have

36:52

been known to demolish a pint of

36:54

Ben and Jerry's oh in one sitting

36:57

talk about 1996 that's when we all

36:59

started learning how to do that you know I had a maybe

37:04

not a technical question but I guess a

37:07

performance question because clearly especially given the conversation

37:09

we just had about how much time you

37:11

spent in the makeup chair there was a

37:13

lot of visual elements to Clem in the

37:16

original series and I think

37:18

we're wondering what you did differently how

37:20

you maybe approached the character differently or

37:22

the performance differently since you did not

37:24

get to lean on any of those

37:26

visual cues um you

37:29

know it's funny I think I

37:31

I didn't approach it really any

37:33

differently um you know one

37:35

of the great things about being in makeup was that I

37:37

could be as big as I wanted to be and as

37:41

an actor that is one of the

37:43

things that I often encountered as critiques

37:46

that I often got was great

37:49

can you bring it down I'm

37:52

I'm a big person I have a big

37:54

expressive face I have big eyes I tend

37:56

to be very over-the-top and

37:59

a lot of times It just didn't work for some of

38:01

the things I was reading for. People

38:04

just didn't get it. And

38:06

I was always told, like, bring it down. I was like, that

38:08

was me being down. This

38:11

is what you got. But

38:13

being behind that makeup and the fact that it was

38:15

so responsive, I was just able to

38:17

do whatever I wanted. And I kind of approached that the

38:20

same way in the audio recordings. Knowing

38:24

I wasn't on camera, I could be as physical

38:26

as I wanted to be and oftentimes was, as

38:29

I'm sure you've seen from the backstage, the

38:31

behind the scenes footage, everyone is

38:33

kind of like going crazy. And

38:38

that I think is what helps bring

38:40

forth the vocal aspect is if physically

38:42

you're embodying everything. So it

38:44

wasn't a conscious decision. I wish I could say

38:46

I was a brilliant actor

38:49

who made a conscious choice. But no, I just

38:51

kind of just went for it and was like, I

38:54

can be as over the top as I want to be. And

38:57

that's it. Hey, maybe the best choice to

38:59

make is to just go for it. That's

39:02

kind of the way I've always thought. And

39:04

I come from a stage

39:07

background. That's where

39:09

I grew up and kind

39:11

of still is my favorite thing to do as much as

39:13

I love film and TV. It

39:15

can get really boring when

39:18

you have to say the same thing over and over and

39:20

over and over and over and over and over and over

39:22

and over again. And

39:24

many different angles. But

39:27

what I love about theater is it's immediate. It's right

39:29

now. And that to

39:31

me is where the rush comes from. And coming from

39:34

an improv comedy background, it's just always

39:36

just been about the moment and what

39:38

you could bring in the moment. Yeah.

39:41

Well, it lands very

39:43

effectively. We

39:46

always loved Clem, but I really

39:48

think that specifically in this universe,

39:51

Clem is... Yeah. Yeah,

39:54

no, he really... Yeah, they really... Again,

39:57

I'm so very thankful and I'm... My

40:01

desk is actual wood. Hoping

40:03

that maybe we get to come back and do more.

40:05

Don't know when, don't know how. There's nothing. I have

40:07

no insight onto that, but I really hope we get

40:10

to come back and do more because it was such

40:12

a pleasure. It was so much fun. We

40:14

hope to hear more. I think there are a

40:16

lot of crossed fingers around the globe. I'm

40:19

hoping it's a good thing. I'm just going to throw

40:21

this out there. I don't know if there are any

40:23

con promoters or people who want to do things, but

40:25

maybe bring us all in for a staged reading of

40:27

an episode. Who knows? That would

40:29

be so good. Kind of like

40:31

what they do with Bob's Burgers

40:33

and Simpsons and various other things.

40:36

Maybe we could do that. Just

40:38

throw that out there. Did you hear that? Everyone

40:41

listening? Right. Work your

40:43

little Scooby magic. Make it happen. Do

40:47

you have, maybe that's a good place to ask

40:50

you, if you have places that you'd

40:52

like, I mean clearly we know, you

40:54

are performing and Chris and Amber are

40:56

writing and perhaps the twain

40:59

never meet, but you

41:01

have a deep attachment of course to Clem and

41:03

Clem's journey. So I wonder if there are places

41:05

that you are hoping Clem goes if we should

41:07

be so lucky as to get to the point. Gosh,

41:09

I don't know. I just love, I love

41:13

putting Clem, and they kind of

41:15

did this too, is putting him as a fish out of water. Putting

41:19

him in situations that he has no idea how he's going to get

41:21

out of, and he just

41:23

through his lovable

41:27

goofballness manages to make everything

41:29

okay. I kind

41:31

of love that. I would love to see Clem as maybe

41:33

a reluctant detective. Yes.

41:37

And so there's some

41:40

weird, noirish, where

41:42

he's got to solve a mystery. He's

41:45

just like bubbling into all the right hands. Everything

41:47

he does is wrong, but it still works out.

41:52

Yeah, I just, I love seeing him

41:54

in those situations. I had always, with

41:56

the late great Andy Hallett, I had

41:58

always wished that those two characters had

42:00

gotten to meet up. Oh,

42:02

man. There's something so

42:04

similar about, like, I really, I guess,

42:07

haven't had reason to put them side

42:09

by side, but there is something so

42:12

similar about this character. Very similar, and, you

42:14

know, I got to know Andy very, very

42:16

well doing the cons and stuff,

42:18

and you know, he's taken from us way, way,

42:20

way too soon. But I had

42:22

always wished that Clem and Lauren could have gotten

42:24

together, because that would have just been a hoot.

42:30

I had wanted to write a comic years and years

42:32

and years ago, and I just didn't call, you know,

42:34

a funny thing happened on the way out of Sunnydale,

42:36

where Clem and Lauren end up in

42:39

Las Vegas and in the midst of,

42:41

like, a mob dispute

42:44

where one of them is accused of killing someone,

42:46

and they've got a, like, a hangover type comedy

42:50

of errors, hijinks. Yes. Listen,

42:53

yes, it's never too late. I was going to

42:55

say, you can still do this. Honestly,

42:57

one of the biggest images I have when you

43:00

were talking about your arms as Clem, the biggest

43:02

images I have is holding that big gulp, I

43:04

think, in the car on the way out of

43:06

Sunnydale. So that was in my brain, and then

43:08

you said that, and I was like, I did

43:10

see Clem with his big gulp and then going right to

43:12

Vegas on the way out of Sunnydale. Hell,

43:14

yes. Bring it. Give it to us.

43:17

We would love to have it. All right. All

43:19

right. I'll see if I can make that happen. Beautiful. I

43:22

also think, and, you know, I know we're running on

43:24

time here, but because you're talking about Andy

43:26

and the overlap of these characters, and we've already

43:28

talked about some of the depth that Clem has been given,

43:30

but I just personally find it

43:33

so powerful when

43:35

characters show

43:38

their caretaking nature and their ability

43:40

to bring a room to life

43:43

alongside the things that they carry,

43:45

which is why I was so

43:48

touched to see the depth in Clem and why

43:51

I'm now currently so moved in thinking about the

43:53

Lorne and Clem overlap. So

43:56

I don't know. I don't know if you have more to

43:58

say on that and how those two things meet. But it just

44:00

struck me. Sure. I think

44:02

what is great about Tristan and Amber is

44:04

they both inherently know that, you

44:08

know, it's a cliche, but it's oftentimes

44:10

true is that, you know, the

44:13

comedian, the clown is

44:15

oftentimes very sad inside. And I think

44:17

they very much tapped on that is

44:19

the reason why some

44:21

of us are driven to make other people laugh.

44:24

Room full of strangers laugh is because we

44:27

have a lot going on inside. And

44:30

we're oftentimes battling our own issues and

44:32

demons and darkness. And in

44:35

doing that, it helps us. And

44:37

I think they very intuitively tapped into that.

44:40

Not saying that I'm a dark, depressed person, but, you know,

44:42

we all have we all carry things. And

44:44

there is something that drives a

44:47

performer, especially comedians, to get

44:51

up in front of a room full of strangers and

44:53

go, I'm going to make you laugh

44:55

tonight, whether that's stand up, improv, doing a play,

44:57

sketch comedy, any of those things. It

45:00

is for me. It

45:05

has always been about I don't care what

45:08

day you just had. If I can make you smile,

45:10

then that

45:12

makes me smile. So, yeah. James,

45:15

thank you for spending

45:17

time with us. Yes. Oh,

45:20

absolutely. My pleasure. I don't want to leave it on

45:22

like a downer note like

45:25

I honestly like I think

45:27

it's a really powerful note. And I think

45:29

that it's I

45:31

think that we've talked to a lot of

45:33

folks in the Buffyverse specifically who play villains,

45:36

right, specifically villains. And some

45:38

of the most incredible villains

45:41

have talked to us from an actor standpoint of

45:44

the depth that they've given to

45:46

those villains, that it's not just about playing

45:48

evil, right? It's about like saying anyone who's

45:50

doing this thing that

45:52

might be evil has a motivation to do it.

45:54

There's a villain who never thinks

45:56

they're villains. Exactly. And this

45:58

is not the same. to apples, but

46:01

I think that it's a very powerful

46:03

thing to remember that there's always more

46:05

happening inside of people than what you

46:07

see. So I actually think it's

46:09

a really beautiful thing. Thank

46:12

you. I think so too. It's

46:14

the reason why the Greeks

46:16

had tragedy and comedy. They're

46:18

two sides of the same coin. Why

46:20

Shakespeare either had comedies or tragedies.

46:22

It was either ending in death or a wedding. So

46:24

yeah, and I think it's also

46:27

why a lot of times you'll see comedic

46:36

actors turn in brilliant dramatic

46:38

performances. Because

46:40

it's there within everybody. Anyway, I can wax

46:42

on, you know, if you want to do

46:44

a masterclass with James Leary, sign up on

46:47

blah, blah, blah. Were there any things that you

46:49

wanted to talk to us about that we didn't sort

46:51

of prompt you to? No, I

46:53

don't think so. Yeah, just

46:56

if you haven't listened to Slayers, please give

46:58

it a listen. It's

47:00

a lot of fun over eight hours,

47:02

so it's a great value. You're doing

47:04

so good. I think you really

47:07

enjoy it. If you're

47:09

a video game person, check out Assassin's Creed

47:11

Nexus VR for Mediquest exclusively.

47:17

I was

47:19

a narrative designer on that. I

47:21

was in charge of all the Ezio Italy

47:24

stuff. Oh, yeah, that's

47:26

all I can think of. If

47:28

you are

47:31

ever in Bryan College

47:33

Station at Texas A&M, and

47:36

they have a show, go see the

47:38

improv troupe Freudian this slip. They are

47:40

still going on. I was a founding

47:42

member back in 1993, and

47:45

they are still going strong to this day. So if you're there

47:47

at Texas A&M, my alma

47:49

mater, go check them out. Oh,

47:52

that's so fun. That's very, very

47:54

fun. Well, thank you

47:56

again for being here and for bringing

47:58

us Clem. who is so

48:00

dear to so many of us. Thank

48:02

you so much. It's been a

48:05

pleasure and a treat, and hopefully we'll

48:07

get to keep doing it. Hell yeah.

48:09

For as long as we can. Season

48:11

two. Season two. Season two. Yeah. Let

48:14

it be so. Monsters

48:43

come in all shapes and sizes. They

48:45

can come from anywhere. The dark corners

48:47

of your hometown. A past meant to stay

48:49

buried and sometimes from within

48:52

you. If you, like me,

48:54

are intrigued by all the forms that monsters take,

48:57

I think you'll enjoy Undertow. Hi,

48:59

this is Fred Greenhulge, creator and host of

49:01

Undertow, a collection of horror podcasts that bring

49:04

you under the surface and into the weird

49:06

and the wicked. Each season, we

49:08

start a new story set in a twisted version of

49:10

the great state of Maine, where I

49:12

grew up fed by the headwaters of great horror

49:14

masters like Stephen King and Rick Houdelaw. In

49:17

Undertow, we'll be confronting ghosts in the

49:19

past, battling werewolves in the present, wrangling

49:21

with cursed artifacts and, through it all,

49:23

doing our best not to forget our

49:25

humanity. Undertow is available wherever

49:27

you listen to podcasts or at realm.fm. Stay

49:31

alert out there and enjoy your time in

49:34

the Undertow.