0:00

when i see the word

0:01

change, what do you think?

0:03

do

0:03

you think last do you think challenges

0:06

or do you think what you should

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be thinking which is opportunity

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you how by diving headlong

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adaptation new normal and wouldn't

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go back and that the most successful

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people simply move through those faces

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anyone can learn my book

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you can pre-order it now from anywhere you get

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books or at jason five dot com slash book

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the title is easy to remember because

1:07

it's the same name is this podcast build

1:09

for tomorrow this

1:12

is billed for tomorrow a podcast

1:14

about the smartest solutions to our most this understood

1:17

problem i'm jason fighter and in each

1:19

episode i take something that seems concerning

1:21

or confusing today and figure out where it came

1:23

from what important things were missing and

1:25

how we can create more opportunity tomorrow

1:29

what , you think when i say the name

1:31

barbie maybe think something neutral

1:34

like classic toy for girls for

1:36

your nostalgic because you played with barbie

1:38

as with kid or you think any number

1:41

of negative things like from full

1:43

body image outdated gender stereotypes

1:45

wealth in the year twenty fourteen

1:47

if you were an executive at mattel

1:49

the massive toy company that owns barbie

1:52

here is what you would have thought about barbie you

1:55

would have thought this have thought holy

1:57

hell five alarm fire

1:59

because old mchale had plenty of

2:01

other classic toys it it's toy chest like

2:03

hot wheels fisher price american girl

2:05

and you know barbie is by

2:08

far it's biggest moneymaker and

2:10

yes back and twenty fourteen barbie

2:12

was slipping sales had declined twenty

2:14

percent in the last two years alone consumers

2:17

said barbie was behind the times parents

2:20

weren't comfortable giving one to their girls so

2:22

again if you're an executive at mattel this is

2:24

not just about one toy falling out

2:26

of favor with this is an existential crisis

2:29

so what do you do wells you call

2:31

someone who can fix it and for

2:33

mattel that meant calling a former

2:35

mattel executive named richard dixon

2:38

who had left to run a fashion company then

2:41

got a call back almost five years later

2:43

from the tell inviting me to come back

2:45

to play at i that have a say at a motel

2:47

or that is your allow that everly much else to be full

2:49

of play talk their yeah well it wasn't

2:52

quite that playful of course

2:54

it wasn't this was no time for play this

2:56

is time for work and speaking

2:58

of work that dinging sound was richard

3:01

getting an email not you don't worry you'll

3:03

hear more that later because the man is busy

3:05

so why were they calling richard specifically

3:08

well he first to a motel in the year

3:10

two thousand where he served in a bunch of

3:12

roles and eventually became general manager

3:14

and senior vice president for barbie where

3:17

he introduced a lot of innovation and grew the brandt

3:19

then he left for that other job which is when

3:21

barbies dream house became full of nightmares so

3:24

mattel wanted richard back they

3:26

wanted him to bring barbie

3:28

back and richard felt like well

3:30

yes the problem with barbie was clear i

3:33

need to is a good choice

3:35

in particular and to is that the com

3:38

ran

3:39

they are a reflection

3:42

of our times and barbie

3:44

had become a reflection of an old time

3:47

in order for these products that become

3:49

brands that become larger

3:51

than the product itself stay

3:53

relevant it has to continue to evolve

3:56

and move with the

3:58

times which me making

4:00

some big changes the barbie no matter how

4:02

difficult or maybe even controversial

4:04

that was going to be later in

4:07

the episode the episode tell you exactly

4:09

how richard change the barbie brand

4:11

and the very drastic impact that it's

4:13

had but first i want to stay

4:15

on that idea of richards for a moment

4:17

that toys are a reflection of

4:19

our time if that's true then

4:21

what can we learn from our changing

4:24

toys and how can we

4:26

learn to change ourselves to more fully

4:28

answer that i'm going to make this episode a tale

4:31

of two toys one is

4:33

barbie and the other is well

4:35

much more obscure but

4:37

before we get there i want to introduce you to someone

4:39

else who thinks deeply about toys

4:42

but in a different way and who's focus

4:44

is on a very different time my name is jonathan

4:46

like stratos pay them pronouns

4:49

i teach at queens borough community college and

4:51

i am a toy story and jonathan

4:54

is especially interested in the gender dynamics

4:56

of toys and there's a lot to say they are

4:58

given how gendered toys or barbie

5:01

of course represents one side of this equation

5:03

it basically defined the idea

5:05

of a girl's toy for generations and

5:08

on the other side you had action figures toy

5:10

soldiers and wrestlers superheroes

5:12

and monsters all very

5:14

explicitly made for boys but

5:16

, thing is those borders didn't

5:18

always hold sometimes often

5:21

by accident a toy would cross over

5:23

something made for one audience would become

5:25

something else for someone else and

5:28

that's how jonathan recently stumbled upon

5:30

a wonderful little mystery while reading

5:32

an old copy of a toy industry magazine

5:34

they had one singular line

5:36

in there about the nineteen

5:39

fifties davy crockett figure

5:42

that looks like obama then

5:44

i just read that way they

5:46

were so like that that's interesting

5:49

the nineteen fifties was a defining era

5:51

in toys it's when barbie first debuted

5:54

and davy crockett was the exact

5:57

opposite of barbie he was a manly

5:59

man frontiersman who fought his

6:01

life and died at and

6:03

maybe crocodile was very clearly a toy

6:05

for boys at a time in girls

6:07

and boys definitely did not play with

6:10

the same toys it seems so, so well,

6:12

it was licensed by disney

6:14

and yet this toy for

6:16

boys, looked like a

6:18

woman again in the 1950s,

6:20

jonathan track down, one

6:22

of these toys and as we spoke of resume

6:24

a few months ago, they held it up so i could see

6:27

was still in it's original packaging inside

6:29

the box that you can see this through

6:31

a plastic window there is

6:34

plastic doll that looks distinctly

6:36

liked that girl it's

6:38

true round seminal face

6:40

button nose red lips she's

6:43

got a rifle strapped around her waist

6:46

and is wearing these

6:48

leather swayed garments

6:50

that are meant to kind of bmx crockett

6:53

but are not quite there and dad

6:56

not to make it weird or anything but

6:58

in the interests of fully investigating this

7:00

is it is female body well it

7:02

has breasts what was going

7:05

on here before we go any further

7:07

let me use zoom out for a second until you how

7:09

i came to all this a few months ago

7:11

jonathan reached out to me because they'd heard an old

7:13

episode i did about how teddy bears kicked off

7:15

a great moral panic and ninety seven i

7:18

just re re in that episode so if you missed

7:20

it just look at the episode i posted before this one

7:22

i thought jonathan that i love unexpected

7:25

stories from history and in turn

7:27

johnson told me this whole thing with the davy crockett

7:29

all then by total coincidence

7:32

i met richard a few weeks later and

7:34

talked about the big barbie turn around

7:36

the he's orchestrated a patel so

7:38

when richard said to me that toys are

7:41

a reflection of our times

7:43

these chew toy stories snap together

7:46

for me because i started saying you

7:48

know people talk a lot about

7:50

our times they say

7:52

things like it's it's a sign of the times

7:55

or that's what happens these days or

7:57

in today's world we are class

7:59

the trying to define our times

8:02

for good or for ill by little moments

8:04

or experiences so we are constantly

8:06

struggling to update ourselves and our understanding

8:09

of the world do not feel stuck in the past

8:11

and i became intrigued by the idea that toys

8:14

could do that too because a toy

8:16

isn't just a thing that happens in the moment

8:19

a toy is a product of many people sitting

8:21

around and thinking about the standards and values

8:24

and identities that the masses want to pass

8:26

a want to their children toys

8:28

, kind of cultural forecasting and

8:30

plastic form form here we have

8:32

to toys both from the nineteen fifties

8:34

one was traditional in need of an update

8:37

the other strangely progressive from a

8:39

traditional time together can

8:41

they tell us about what it means to be a reflection

8:43

of our times and what it means

8:46

to update that to store

8:48

this i'm going to tell you some crazy toys

8:50

history including how your favorite toys

8:52

came toys be i'll explain the surprisingly

8:54

ham handed origin of the action figure

8:57

and why this weird davy crockett all has more

8:59

significance than you think and then we'll

9:01

also learn how richard is reinventing

9:03

barbies and what that says about how

9:05

to make something relevant today it

9:08

is a story of our toys and ourselves

9:10

it's and reflection of our times you might say and

9:12

saw coming up after the break

9:15

if you are an entrepreneur really minded person

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idea for a business or just even a side

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i recommend checking out there recent episode with

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andrew wilkinson where he talked about white

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getting rich slow is better

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than getting rich quick they also talk about the

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five pillars of happiness how to identify

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winners and much more these are

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the kinds of conversations they can get you thinking

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fig and then acting thing so check

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it out just search for by first

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assuming you already subscribe to my show that i

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mobsters spies and hostage negotiators

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r on apple podcasts spotify

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or wherever you listen to podcasts we're

11:36

back so we're on a quest to see

11:38

toys as a reflection of our time

11:40

but first we should backup to understand

11:43

the time that they came from before

11:45

the nineteen twenties dolls were generally

11:47

made of porcelain leather cloth

11:49

and other materials and they were almost

11:51

always baby dolls that's

11:54

because well these dolls were for

11:56

young girls and young girls were supposed

11:58

to grow up and be mother's you gotta or

12:00

that mothering instinct but then in

12:02

the nineteen twenties a new kind of dog

12:04

became popular it'd fit around

12:06

a long time but now it was in

12:08

vogue and it was the

12:10

paper fashion dolls so

12:13

paper dolls are basically exactly what they sound

12:15

like this again is toy historian

12:17

jonathan alexa drought us you would get

12:20

to serve seat a cardboard you

12:22

would have you know in the center a

12:24

sort of punch out doll you know

12:26

that looks basically like a nude sort

12:28

of form and to be clear these

12:30

wouldn't be baby dolls these would

12:32

be paper dolls have grown women

12:34

sometimes celebrities from the time and

12:37

they'd also come with these flat cardboard dresses

12:39

that girls can layer on top they

12:41

were popular for a long time alongside

12:43

all those baby dolls then we hit the nineteen

12:45

fifties and the toy industry really started

12:47

to build steam there was this thoughts

12:50

that i think was spurred on a lot by

12:52

post war baby boom

12:54

we have a lot more kids are what are they gonna

12:56

play with there's a huge market that we

12:58

could sell to now so

13:01

what are our options and

13:03

as it happened to a new substance was

13:05

on the rise he was cheap easy

13:07

to manufacture and perfect to make

13:09

toys of one one

13:14

worse sir

13:18

so

13:20

the plastics

13:21

what did kids want

13:23

in a plastic all know the new

13:26

so toy companies just started flooding the market

13:28

with plastic dolls usually in the form of

13:30

babies are a little girls for example

13:32

something called the genie doll became popular

13:34

for a while it looks like a little round

13:37

faced four year old girl that you could dress up

13:39

and then in nineteen sixty nine this

13:42

hit the market and changed everything

13:48

that from an original barbie

13:50

commercial and here was the real innovation

13:53

of barbie it took the idea of assassin

13:55

dog which had been introduced through paper dolls

13:58

in made it three dimensional

14:00

barbie is not a baby doll it

14:02

is an adult or up teenager

14:05

or were however old barbies most obese

14:07

and you can dress or up in beer best friend

14:10

and once barbie took off the rest of the

14:12

industry wanted it's own barbie success

14:15

those girls dominated the market

14:17

for a few years and then toymaker

14:20

started thinking there

14:22

are we to create like a barbie

14:24

for the ways some way that

14:26

a boy would want to play with a plastic

14:28

doll so they started sry

14:31

but this is tricky because people in the

14:33

nineteen fifties were absolutely terrified

14:35

of homosexuality and the average person did

14:38

not want their boys engaging

14:40

with anything that could well

14:43

you know so there was

14:45

this interest in making sure that

14:47

boys knew what boys toys were and

14:49

girls new a girl's toys work in nineteen

14:52

sixty three the toy company hasbro

14:54

came up with a solution to this it created

14:56

a plastic toy soldier that it called

14:58

g i joe and then to make

15:00

sure there was absolutely no confusion

15:03

and that g i joe was very

15:05

definitely without question absolutely

15:08

one thousand percent a toy for boys

15:11

it made a few key decisions first

15:13

he may g i joe a half inch taller

15:15

than barbie barbie stands at eleven

15:17

and a half inches so g i joe became a full foot

15:20

and then to really hammer the point home hasbro

15:23

came up with a word a word

15:26

meant for boys a word whose

15:28

sole purpose was to say keep your

15:30

tea parties yourself barbie because this

15:32

toy has other things to do and that magic

15:34

word was the action

15:37

they came up with this term

15:39

action figure and really just

15:41

branded that on g

15:43

i joe pretty much at every turn

15:46

so like if you are getting a marine

15:48

you weren't getting a marine you were getting an action marine

15:50

you aren't getting a figure you're getting action figure

15:52

action meant boys action

15:55

seager meant a figurine for boys and

15:57

one see i do took off the rest of the industry

15:59

quickly followed making more plastic

16:01

figurines for boys and always labeling

16:03

them with the word action like

16:06

an action figure called action jackson and

16:15

, was bonanza who's horse

16:18

definitely is not for girls because

16:20

it is not just wearing any all regular

16:22

hooves tours has announced

16:25

in there were other signifiers like when

16:27

this commercial for a super banned all made

16:29

it very clear that his plastic

16:31

wasn't any old plastic not barbie

16:34

plastic for example know

16:36

made of of and has a program

16:39

that fits on his shoulders and as

16:41

and reminder see the picture these things these

16:43

toys are still all roughly the

16:45

size of a barbie so barbie big

16:47

foot tall to tall smaller action

16:49

figures only started entering the market in the seventies

16:52

and then we're really fully popularized by the nineteen

16:54

seventy seven star wars figures which were three

16:57

points seventy five inches tall and

16:59

those smaller action figures really

17:01

opened up the toy universe especially for

17:03

boys the three point seven five and

17:05

scale makes it scale lot

17:07

easier to do things like make beagles for

17:09

these figures show that's

17:11

where we get like with the x wings and

17:14

and star wars you know the g i joe tanks

17:16

and then all that stuff so okay that

17:19

is contacts for how boy the whole split

17:21

off from girl dolls he was very clear

17:23

and very deliberate and now you have

17:25

more of an appreciation for the mystery of the

17:27

davy crockett door he was made

17:29

in nineteen fifty five eight years

17:32

before g i joe which means this

17:34

was a time when the toy industry was still

17:36

trying to find it's hit toy for boys

17:38

that are actually figure hadn't even been created

17:41

yet but the gender dynamics the nineteen fifties

17:43

remain the same people would have still

17:45

been very alert whether a toy was

17:47

explicitly for girls or boys

17:50

so how could anyone have made

17:52

and sold this davy crockett all with

17:54

lipstick and breasts jonathan

17:57

has spent a lot of time researching and thinking

17:59

about

17:59

this so i think that there

18:02

are a couple of things about

18:04

the davy crockett action figure

18:06

that we really have to understand let's start

18:08

with where it came from in the nineteen fifties

18:11

america was fascinated by stories of

18:13

it's eighteenth and nineteenth century frontiersman

18:15

manly men like daniel boone

18:17

and buffalo bill who represented an american

18:20

self reliance davy crockett

18:22

was in that group and who exactly

18:24

was he was sort of us a physical man

18:27

very impressive

18:29

very strong about this is

18:31

under six feet approximately

18:34

one hundred and eighties and hundred ninety

18:36

pounds this is gary i'm

18:38

gary foreman arm i mostly known for

18:40

being a producer and director

18:42

for a high and documentaries

18:45

and films and films starts a history channel

18:47

programming and ninety ninety four with a

18:49

series of the american revolution gary

18:51

became fascinated by davy crockett because

18:53

swell davy crockett just lived in extraordinary

18:56

life it began in seventeen

18:58

eighty six when baby was born in what was then

19:00

considered the frontier of america though

19:02

it's now does called tennessee and

19:04

gary says it's worth considering how wilde

19:07

it was for people to move out there at that time

19:09

when you things about fact the people were

19:11

motivated move from point

19:13

a to point b there

19:16

was no photographs

19:18

there was

19:18

there was no technology they're stuck in the show

19:21

them the prove whether going it was by

19:23

word of mouth

19:24

maybe we have many adventures

19:27

he drove cattle he bailed his father

19:29

at a desk he joined the military hunted

19:31

wild game to feed the soldiers fought in

19:33

the war of eighteen twelve got into politics

19:35

join the house of representatives and eighteen twenty seven

19:37

and became known as a major opponent of president

19:40

andrew jackson because of davies opposition

19:42

to the indian removal act but perhaps

19:44

just as importantly he was a celebrity

19:47

of his time in part because he was

19:49

also really good as a showman

19:51

when he gave speeches in congress he do dead

19:54

on impersonations of his opponents down

19:56

to their body language and speaking styles then

19:58

people could not gov the for this so

20:00

he became kinda like a tourist attraction

20:03

for a number of years and when davy crockett

20:05

died fighting at the battle of the alamo

20:07

and eighteen thirty six at the age of forty

20:09

nine he went from being a famous politician

20:12

to a folk hero more than a century

20:14

later in nineteen fifty four disney

20:17

launched a five part television miniseries

20:19

about davy crockett with a theme song that

20:21

would become familiar to people for

20:23

generations

20:29

then in nineteen fifty five disney

20:31

stitch together the first three episodes

20:34

of that series into a movie and

20:36

all of this kicked off a new wave

20:38

of davy crockett media here with

20:40

this man this manly man

20:42

who represented what men of america should be

20:44

and he was portrayed on the screen by the manly

20:46

actor fess parker truly

20:49

could there be a better inspiration for

20:51

a toy for boys but

20:53

here's the thing today when disney

20:55

develops a movie they do it with a big merchandising

20:58

plan when the movie is ready to go so

21:00

is an absolute de luz of toys

21:02

but back then nobody thought that way instead

21:05

does he just put out the movie so

21:07

when it became popular toy companies would call

21:09

dizzy up and basically say hey we

21:12

could do something with us getting a disney license

21:14

back then not quite like getting

21:16

a disney license now back then

21:18

apparently all you needed was needed was baked idea

21:21

which was exactly what the fortune

21:23

toy corporation of new york city had because

21:26

the fortune tory corporation was the company

21:28

behind this davy crockett doll very

21:30

little is actually known about the fortune

21:33

toy corporation today well we know is

21:35

that they created a doll that

21:38

actually had a a beating heart

21:40

that was a selling point but what if what

21:43

was in there

21:43

there was this is so

21:46

is basically

21:47

sort of a ball inside about

21:50

a bigger ball the kind of his rattled around

21:52

and and simulated

21:54

a heart beat us only with a would be

21:57

if you shook it

21:58

yeah that kind of a guy

21:59

the it's at all with shaken baby syndrome

22:03

essentially so here's the best

22:05

sense the jonathan can make a this the fortune

22:07

toy corporation was making a lot of dollars

22:09

for girls which method a had a lot of girls

22:12

all parts lying around and then

22:14

it had an idea to make this davy crockett

22:16

all and quickly gotta license from dc

22:18

but the thing is by this point davy

22:20

crockett media was already happening and nobody

22:22

expected to last long which meant

22:25

he forced into a corporation did not

22:27

have a lot of time to make a whole bunch a new

22:29

dolls they needed to create something

22:31

immediately said they had these bodies

22:34

new doll bodies lying or out

22:37

and the like look all we need to do

22:39

is put fess parker picture on the box

22:42

get a license have it say walt disney

22:45

and just load that doll

22:47

up with the typical

22:49

davy crockett outfit

22:51

and

22:52

nuff right

22:54

now and this is all just educated

22:56

speculation is jonathan right

22:59

well the crack research team

23:01

here at build for tomorrow dug around and discovered

23:04

just how complicated the nineteen fifties

23:06

toy industry was for example

23:08

remember earlier i mentioned a dog

23:10

called the genie dollars or predecessor

23:12

to barbie a toy company called

23:15

bueller arts started making a

23:17

knock off of jeannie that a called ham

23:19

and it made that knock off under a bunch

23:21

of different toy company names virgo

23:24

dollar companies fourteen dollar

23:26

corporation fortune toys ink

23:28

and yes fortune toy corporations

23:31

the same company that made the davy

23:33

crockett door and intriguingly

23:35

the dolls were also associated with a company called

23:37

ontario plastics which is actually

23:39

still in operation today we called them but

23:42

unfortunately they don't have any records going back that

23:44

far but that's not a totally

23:46

dead end because

24:00

that is from a nineteen fifty show

24:02

called space cadet whose main

24:04

character was named tom corbett in

24:06

there was a secondary character named joan

24:08

dale and the reason i'm telling you that is because

24:11

we sound dolls of both tom

24:13

and joan that i'm telling you

24:16

look exactly the same

24:18

i mean tom is wearing a jumpsuit and

24:20

a hat and joan is wearing a dress and has

24:22

long hair but their faces are

24:24

i'd denticles same and big

24:27

eyes long eyelashes bright

24:29

red lips we also found

24:31

male and female cowboy dolls

24:33

that we're also exactly the same

24:36

dolls is dressed up a little difference

24:38

and in fact the davy crockett doll also

24:41

had a female counterparts it was paulie

24:43

crockett see these first wife and yes

24:45

if you look closely tv and polly's

24:48

faces are identical

24:50

seemed all this with one dressed up

24:52

as a man so it's this feels

24:54

like a good time to check in with our original

24:56

idea that toys are a reflection

24:59

of our time if that's the case

25:01

been what is this a reflection of

25:03

the first knowing nothing except the

25:05

existence of the day the crocodile you might think

25:08

this is a reflection of an open minded time

25:10

but that's not really right

25:13

now the door seems to seems less about what people

25:15

of the nineteen fifties or tolerant of in more

25:18

about what they simply had not yet grown accustomed

25:20

grown accustomed mean look at their toy industry

25:22

companies were just throwing plastic spaghetti

25:24

at the wall see what stock in nineteen

25:26

fifties most dolls were made around new york

25:29

city and most toy companies use the same plastic

25:31

manufacturers boy dolls didn't

25:33

sell as well as girl dolls so there was

25:35

probably no point in manufacturing avoid

25:37

all and therefore as far as consumers

25:40

of the day we're concerned dolls always

25:42

looked feminine no matter who they were for

25:45

here's how jonathan sees it to hear the

25:47

davy crockett dot isn't just something that existed

25:50

in that one time and space it's a thing

25:52

that represents something now too

25:54

because of course even if a toy

25:57

is a reflection of our time and objects

25:59

meaning change over time to

26:01

be can mean different things to different people

26:04

at different times because as anyone

26:06

who has ever created something and put it

26:08

out into the world knows the creators intention

26:11

may be very different from how people receive

26:13

it and that happens in toys

26:15

all the time for example

26:18

the still from she man sisto

26:20

is a large muscular warrior

26:22

with a tidy beard and a metal cyst

26:24

hence the name system a good

26:27

friend of mine who's gay says doubtless his

26:29

first introduction to bear culture in fact

26:31

a lot of people see the whole he man line

26:33

that way men's health even once ran a piece

26:35

titled why he man is a gay

26:38

icon and that's probably not

26:40

with the creators of he man intended but for a lot

26:42

of people who didn't see themselves in traditional

26:44

toys this has brought them joy and

26:47

here's another classic in the barbie toy

26:49

line there's a there's a toy

26:52

called earring magic can hearing magic

26:54

can came out in nineteen eighty three

26:56

he had blond hair highlights so lavender

26:58

mess search and a purple pleather vest

27:01

is kind of stereotypically exemplifying

27:03

kind of a gay club kids and

27:06

to top it off he wore a necklace

27:08

with an earring on it

27:10

that the necklace fit can

27:12

where's however without

27:15

, earring attached to it looks

27:19

a little bit like a cock ring the queer

27:21

community embraced earring magic can

27:23

but maybe not a surprise

27:25

here's the culture at large had a full blown

27:27

moral panic over it and mattel ultimately

27:29

pulled the toys themselves but the origin

27:32

of hearing that you can is pretty interesting and

27:34

also a nice setup for the changes you

27:36

hear about barbie later so i'll tell

27:38

you briefly back in nineteen ninety three

27:40

these hot buzzwords in the toy industry

27:43

were gender blending

27:46

which was basically an attempt to sell boy toys

27:48

to girls i think washing them and to sell

27:50

girl toys to boys by blue washing

27:52

them companies at the time clean that this was

27:54

progressive but in practice it was pretty

27:56

clunky and condescending for example

27:58

a couple of companies launched dinosaur toys

28:00

for girls called things like darling

28:03

dyno and little missed i

28:05

know and that's the era that

28:07

earring magic can came out of to but

28:09

i didn't set out to make a d doll

28:11

but that's basically what they did he was an

28:13

accident and for many very

28:15

useful accident that actually gives

28:17

me a lotta of hope for the hope the future

28:20

if we can find these moments even

28:22

in history even when we perceive things to

28:24

be very much black

28:27

and white this or that

28:29

we can say well that's

28:31

little more complicated than that

28:33

caesar's mocked for do that there's

28:35

really interesting scholarship around this idea

28:37

by the way you can start with the book glitch

28:39

semitism by curator and writer legacy

28:42

russell who argues that errors or glitches

28:44

and here i am quoting from the book offers

28:47

an opportunity for us to perform and

28:49

transform ourselves in an infinite variety

28:52

of identities that's , of the reasons

28:54

why jonathan loves looking back at the history

28:56

of toys it isn't just a question of

28:58

the time they reflect it's a question

29:00

of what else was in that time and

29:03

who else was in that time and therefore

29:05

who else was reflected even if they went

29:07

overlooked which brings us nicely

29:09

back to this moment we're in now when barbies

29:12

arguably the most iconic toy

29:14

for girls in the world team

29:16

to accept that it no longer reflected

29:19

the times we live in and richard

29:21

nixon who came back to save the brand had

29:23

to ask the most important question

29:25

of off so if we were building the brand

29:27

today the brand girls around the

29:29

world for their limitless potential what

29:32

would we do

29:33

what would the brand look like

29:34

the answer to that question coming

29:37

up after the break don't

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you need indeed

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we're back so let's talk about

30:46

how to bring barbie into the modern world

30:48

and to do that it's worth a reminder

30:51

of just how powerful barbie his

30:53

speeches barbie is not just an iconic

30:55

toy for girls barbie was her

30:57

first massive twice it's

30:59

that shifted that play pattern

31:02

from paper to plaster barbie

31:05

has a full name did you know that

31:07

i didn't see it is barbara millicent

31:09

of roberts she was created by ruth

31:11

handler the cofounder and first president

31:13

of mattel and debuted at a toy fair

31:16

in nineteen sixty nine and barbies

31:18

world as we know it started to take see pretty

31:20

early her boyfriend ten appeared

31:22

two years after launch and nineteen sixty one

31:24

and her best friend message appeared in nineteen sixty three

31:27

from the very beginning barbie was a reflection of

31:29

complex cultural times there

31:31

was swell some not so

31:34

forward looking stuff like in nineteen sixty

31:36

three barbie came out with a diet book that apparently

31:38

literally said don't eat and

31:41

in the ninety's a talking barbie called team

31:43

talk barbie was causing an uproar for one

31:45

of the things it said here's an actual

31:47

team talk barbie with the famous

31:49

words math

31:52

class is toss she's saying then

31:55

there's barbies career which as you

31:57

probably know is a core barbie seeing

31:59

mattel is always releasing new barbies

32:02

and different outfits representing different jobs

32:04

and this wasn't

32:05

exactly progressive at first she

32:07

was a fashion designer and i

32:09

sixty a ballerina in nineteen

32:11

sixty one a baby sitter in a cheerleader

32:14

in nineteen sixty three but too much

32:16

else credit she expanded pretty quickly she was also

32:18

a business executive nineteen sixty three

32:20

and an astronaut ninety sixty five and by now

32:22

she's held hundreds of careers and

32:25

of course there's diversity and

32:27

body image barbie lived in a primarily

32:30

white world for a long time she got

32:32

her first black friend named christie

32:34

in nineteen sixty eight though it official

32:36

black barbie didn't hit stores until nineteen

32:39

eighties and although barbie deed slowly

32:41

diversify it did so

32:43

sparingly even by the time barbie

32:45

sales were taking into a fourteen bars was

32:47

still only being sold in a handful of skin

32:50

tones and not many body types

32:52

tilt this this richard nixon walked into

32:55

when he returned to mattel to try saving

32:57

barbie or brin reputation

32:59

and and relationship with consumers

33:01

had eroded simply put

33:04

barbie was not as relevant as she had been

33:06

she was reflecting what

33:08

girls saw as aspiration

33:10

of and now remember richard has

33:12

this philosophy is really interesting philosophy

33:14

which is that a successful toy is

33:17

a reflection of it's time but

33:19

it was it was deeper than that he says barbie

33:22

in particular is a brand that if

33:24

you aren't on trend your dead

33:26

in the water if you are too trendy

33:29

you might also be too far

33:32

to where the perception of

33:35

brown like ours can be embraced the

33:37

have to be right on track timers

33:40

and timely timeless and timely

33:43

everything all at once but moon

33:45

not too much as to do to tall order

33:47

so how do you strike that we needed to

33:49

move from what had been

33:51

i call a brin monologue where

33:53

we presented barbie to consumers and said this

33:55

is who she is this is what she does that

33:57

is rules associated with it you

33:59

are in dialogue and start to

34:01

really listen to our consumer

34:04

when our consumers saying it to heart

34:06

and in mind so that's where they started

34:08

and as a result the built what richard calls

34:11

the mattel playbook there are

34:13

four parts to it and i understand

34:15

that you listening right now might not be

34:17

in a position to need a playbook to reinvent

34:19

a decades old iconic brand but

34:22

i want to take you into it anyway because i think

34:24

it also offers a good insight into how we

34:26

can think about updating are evolving anything

34:29

like how do you look at something and say

34:31

that is old and i can be doing better

34:34

and then had he actually do better maybe

34:37

the mattel playbook has some answers so

34:39

step one of the playbook identify

34:42

your purpose like to strip

34:44

barbie down to the bone and what is

34:46

this brand what is the point of it why does

34:48

it exist in a case of barbie it's inspiring

34:50

girls limitless potential and luck

34:53

regardless of how you feel about the idea

34:55

that barbie inspires girls limitless potential

34:57

i'd say this is an idea worth taking note

34:59

of tried on yourself how can you

35:02

describe your work and the core value

35:04

of your work in a way that separate from

35:06

the actual output of your work like

35:08

what is the difference between what you

35:10

do and why you do it because

35:12

i will tell you something if you identify solely

35:15

with what you do than you will never

35:17

want the thing to change because of it changes

35:19

than you change and that is scary and disorienting

35:22

but if you can understand

35:25

why you do something and you can articulate

35:27

that innocent

35:28

fenton than you realize that there are endless

35:30

different ways to fulfill your mission change

35:32

doesn't seem so scary anymore it's like

35:35

guy used to think of myself as a magazine editor

35:37

but that meant i needed to clean tightly to

35:39

magazines or else i'd lose my identity but

35:42

now i have this other phrase for myself i say

35:44

i tell stories in my own voice

35:47

i can do that endless ways makes me so

35:49

much more flexible and that is

35:51

what mattel was doing with barbie from

35:53

their their playbook gets a deep into the weeds

35:55

on product development stuck to his design

35:58

understanding consumers behavior what they like

36:00

and don't like and how to craft a product that meets

36:02

it step three is cultural relevance

36:04

where you ask really hard and important

36:07

questions like how do we make this relevant

36:09

to today and then that leads to wondering

36:11

are they are collaborations with other people

36:13

are brands who feel relevant but also connected

36:15

to the brand's purpose and how do you build marketing

36:18

the fields relevant in any way you

36:20

got it and then step for finally

36:22

the most important the execution building

36:25

the operations to bring all your new ideas

36:27

to life because if you can't

36:29

execute against a great idea

36:31

or a great product then it's nothing

36:33

but a great idea and a great product that never

36:36

got out there then again like i said

36:38

i don't think that you need to be reinventing

36:40

old toys to use this way of thinking

36:42

like okay take a look around the world is changing

36:45

maybe your job is changing so what

36:47

do people need from you now and what do

36:49

you need to learn to do it better and who can

36:51

you work with the become more relevant and then how can

36:53

you take your new idea and really bring it into

36:55

the world is truly there is

36:57

no point of carrying around that idea

37:00

unless you plan to do something with it so

37:02

anyway that is the mattel playbook and here

37:04

is the very short version of what richard

37:06

and his team learned when they ran it they

37:09

learned that people experienced barbie

37:11

as if it was a message like was toy

37:13

saying that this is how the world

37:15

is kids but nobody wants to

37:17

hear that so we introduced choice

37:20

the kept the original body of course and

37:22

barbie but we expanded with

37:24

tall and curvy and various other

37:26

form factors really reflected

37:29

how girls see and how women see

37:32

the world of which we live in

37:33

they also introduced over twenty four different

37:36

skin tones and colors they release

37:38

barbies who were he jobs or who are

37:40

described as hearing impaired who who have a

37:42

prosthetic limb or a skin conditions

37:44

and he did this in consultation with experts

37:46

from those communities to make sure barbie was

37:49

on point mattel also created

37:51

a line of gender neutral dolls and ran

37:53

interesting and groundbreaking partnerships like

37:55

a barbie of the actress liver and talks

37:57

which was introduced as the first transgender

37:59

by basically richard executed

38:02

the exact opposite of earring magic

38:04

can remember that all came out

38:06

of a sloppy effort to just sell more toys

38:09

to more kids without a lot of thought about

38:11

what those tweets said or who they were for

38:13

richards you barbie line is intentional

38:16

he knows exactly what it's doing which

38:18

meant that it was also more prepared for the good

38:20

and bad because yeah some of

38:22

this got pushed back here for example

38:25

is british broadcaster and for a

38:27

politician nigel farage who

38:29

like all for politicians who got into broadcasting

38:32

must find something every night

38:34

to be outraged by some of you

38:37

here , the audience maybe and homes

38:39

thinking about getting presents for your your

38:42

your grandchildren will i may have just

38:44

the thing for thing because

38:47

barbie doll have announced their

38:49

first announced down i

38:53

have to say a putting culture war stuff

38:55

aside i just don't understand

38:57

people's reactions to new things that are

38:59

not for them like okay i do

39:01

not own a house with a lawn but

39:04

every time i hear about a new lawnmower about not

39:06

like lou this company over here

39:08

lou and company pay anybody

39:11

needle lawnmowers you

39:14

don't like that all that it's not for you don't

39:16

buy that all and this by the way it was

39:18

richards general attitude towards people who didn't

39:20

like the brand in general in asked him

39:22

how mattel dealt with all the negative perceptions

39:25

of barbie in the beginning when sales were plummeting

39:27

and he said he was intentionally head intentionally

39:30

oh listen to people understand where

39:32

they're coming from be responses particularly

39:34

to people who felt disappointed by the brand they

39:36

once loved but also don't

39:38

get caught up fighting every street

39:41

we said we want the like to turn to love

39:44

neutral to turn to like

39:46

there are barbie heaters and we're not

39:48

gonna get too distracted with them haters

39:50

made always be haters if we

39:52

can move them to neutral or life good

39:55

for we need to be strong

39:57

and our own conviction around who we are and

39:59

what are per

40:00

and hopefully you know that they'll be more people

40:03

who like and love us than people who want

40:05

to criticize

40:06

the results speak for themselves

40:09

in twenty twenty one thirty had a record

40:11

breaking sales your the biggest sales growth

40:13

in barbies life richard told me they're

40:15

on track to do the same thing again and twenty twenty two

40:17

and he said barbie is the number one

40:20

toy property in the world the

40:22

end of my conversation with richard i thought back to

40:24

what he'd said in the beginning about

40:27

how toys are reflection of our time

40:29

but that particularly for something as big

40:31

an iconic as barbie finding that

40:33

reflection is real balancing act if

40:36

you're too far behind culture you're dead

40:38

in the water if you're too far ahead you'd

40:40

turn too many people off and i wondered

40:43

how do they actually measured that the

40:46

zero way to scientifically

40:48

walk that line i wish to tell

40:50

you there was a silver bullet to that is

40:52

it there is a degree of lucky

40:54

you can have all the extraordinary insights

40:56

and data in the world that

40:59

is what you do with it it's an art and

41:01

science he says it's about having challenging

41:03

conversations making big decisions

41:05

and sinking really really hard

41:08

not as about today but tomorrow to

41:10

have been if we're doing our job right

41:12

ten years from now we'll look back at what barbie

41:14

looked like

41:16

the day and one are narrative was today

41:19

and say oh my goodness that that was so

41:21

twenty twenty two after i talked

41:23

with richard i checked back in with jonathan

41:25

by email i wanted to know

41:27

what they thought about richards work with barbie

41:29

given how alert jonathan is to representation

41:32

and toys and they basically said

41:34

he does a good start and something the rest

41:36

of the toy industry would be wise to follow because

41:39

you know if we think back to the idea

41:41

of glitches the idea that little accidents

41:44

like earring magic can create moments

41:46

were excluded communities can recognize themselves

41:49

well that's all well and good but

41:51

nobody should settle for glitches jonathan says

41:53

people wanna be recognized self

41:56

progress but still a ways to go

41:58

which makes me think the question from the

42:00

beginning of this episode what does it

42:02

mean to be a reflection of our times

42:05

how do you update subtext how do you change

42:08

to be as relevant as possible right now

42:11

the answer isn't recognizing that your

42:13

part of a continuum you're in

42:15

a moment in time among many moments

42:18

in time and the greatest thing that you can do is

42:20

take that time seriously

42:22

to not value the past over the present

42:24

simply because it's more familiar to keep

42:26

an eye on the future even as it's

42:28

not fully noble this is not

42:30

perfect work and it will not satisfy

42:33

everyone but that's not a realistic way

42:35

to measure progress anyway which is

42:37

why i really love what richard said a moment ago

42:39

that in the future people should look back

42:41

at the barbie of twenty twenty two and say

42:44

across that is so twenty twenty

42:46

two because while the tell could

42:48

in theory build a time traveling barbie

42:50

is at once the rest of us are stuck here

42:53

in our to the

42:55

best we can do is have fun with

42:57

that and

42:59

that's our episode the hey remember the

43:01

uproar over barbie saying that math

43:03

class is hard i found the greatest

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news report about it which just brightened my

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day so i want to play for you in a minute the first

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then you will totally love built for tomorrow

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can get your copy now just

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think of a place that sells books and go

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there and if for some reason you're drawing a blank

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