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FDIC. Bullseye

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with Jesse Thorne is a

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production of maximumfun.org and is

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distributed by NPR. It's

1:05

Bullseye. I'm Jesse Thorne. Twyla Tharp

1:08

is a legend in the world of

1:10

dance. She's put on well over a

1:12

hundred stage shows, dancing in

1:14

them or choreographing them. She's

1:17

won a Tony, an Emmy, an honorary

1:19

doctorate from Harvard. She choreographed films like

1:21

Hair, Amadeus and Ragtime. She

1:24

put on her first show in 1965. So

1:27

she has been dancing now for nearly 60 years. 60.

1:31

Tharp is 82 now. She's

1:33

still working just as hard as ever. She

1:36

has a new show she choreographed, How Long

1:38

Blues. It just debuted in New York

1:40

City. And if that sounds extraordinary

1:42

to you, well, it sounds extraordinary to us too.

1:45

But Twyla Tharp doesn't think so.

1:48

When we talked to her in 2020, she said the

1:50

secret to staying healthy and vibrant is pretty simple. Just

1:54

keep moving. That's actually the

1:56

title of her book, Keep It Moving, Lessons

1:58

for the Rest of Your Life. I

4:00

feel I have very little confidence in my

4:03

ability to move in a way that anyone

4:06

would find aesthetically appealing. Oh, Goodie,

4:08

this is going to be fun. How old are

4:10

you? I'm 38. 38.

4:13

Have you ever felt any

4:15

differently? Have you ever felt

4:17

yourself physically appealing? I

4:21

mean, I don't feel unappealing physically

4:23

in general. I feel like I'm fine

4:26

in that department. But I'm talking specifically

4:28

in the realm of movement. I

4:30

felt okay. I played

4:32

some sports when I was younger, and

4:34

I felt okay playing

4:36

baseball, which was the main sport I

4:38

played. What spot did you play? I

4:41

usually played third base. Third base,

4:43

okay. That's a relatively static point. I

4:45

don't want to tell you that, but

4:48

okay. So we had limitations

4:50

even when we didn't, right?

4:53

Even as a 13 or 14 year old, maybe my

4:55

lateral movement was not my strong suit. Right.

4:57

You're not out there being short stop

4:59

or something, are you? But I

5:01

did a fair amount of dancing in the

5:03

arts high school that I went to. Okay,

5:07

good. What kind of dancing? Afro-Hacian.

5:10

Oh, okay. Jazz and hip-hop. I

5:13

never did any classical dance. I wouldn't know

5:16

what to do if you asked me to

5:18

play that. We'll just put that to the

5:20

side, not important. So as you're doing all

5:23

of your jazz and your hip-hop

5:25

and your afro and your Haitian

5:28

and your Tahitian and so forth,

5:30

how are you feeling about this?

5:33

It was an interesting experience, Twyla,

5:35

because I don't

5:37

not enjoy dancing. I wouldn't say it's a great

5:39

passion of mine, but I don't not enjoy it.

5:43

But I definitely was in a context where I was

5:46

the worst of my peer group or close

5:49

to it. Right. So you've

5:51

always been self-conscious whenever you think

5:53

you've been dancing. You've never just

5:57

up and bopped around for your

5:59

own dance. pleasure. Well,

6:01

I must have. I mean, like, when

6:04

my preschool teachers played Jump

6:07

for Your Love by The Pointer Sisters, which

6:10

I remember them playing a lot. Uh-huh, very

6:12

good. Great song. I

6:15

think we did dancing. I don't remember being

6:17

self-conscious then. Right. And

6:20

self-conscious is not necessarily a bad

6:22

thing if you just translate it into

6:24

self-aware, so that if, you know,

6:26

we can realize that quite frankly, get

6:28

real, nobody is really looking at you, so

6:30

you might as well figure out how you

6:32

feel about it and just go there. And

6:35

also, I am sorry, 38, man,

6:39

is only beginning, so

6:41

you better get it together to start

6:43

doing what do you do every day,

6:45

physically speaking? Type. Oi,

6:48

that's it. You're kidding.

6:51

I walk my dogs. I play with

6:53

my kids. What kind of dog? How long

6:55

are the legs on this dog? Well,

7:00

that's the thing. My dogs are getting up there.

7:03

And one of them goes about, I'd say,

7:05

250 yards, and then

7:07

she just sits down. So

7:10

this is it for you, an

7:12

exercise? Right now, yeah. What

7:14

do you mean right now? How long has this

7:16

been? This has been since my

7:19

third child was born, which is about two

7:21

and a half years ago. Understandable,

7:23

understandable, but we

7:25

must push back

7:27

against reality, and

7:29

we must create

7:32

our own space.

7:35

Otherwise, you know what? You will die, so

7:37

make up your mind. How

7:40

did you feel when you were very

7:43

young about the organized

7:46

dancing that you did? You know,

7:48

tap dance classes and stuff when you were young.

7:51

I did it all, man, and

7:53

I loved it all because I

7:55

was taken with the... possibility

8:01

of doing something very, very

8:03

well, whatever it was. And

8:07

I was fortunate in having support in

8:09

the family for that aesthetic,

8:12

but also in having a

8:15

relatively facile body that

8:17

would do a lot without

8:20

having to suffer a

8:23

huge amount of training. And

8:25

so it was a relatively,

8:27

for me, healthy step

8:30

to push in the direction

8:32

of whatever the form was,

8:34

whether it was tap dancing

8:36

or classical ballet or whatever,

8:38

to try to become

8:40

that thing, which

8:43

of course we never really

8:45

accomplished, and becoming that thing

8:47

alters as we age. But it is not

8:52

lessened by as we

8:55

age. It just is different. We've

8:58

got more to get into with the

9:00

fiery Twyla Tharp after the break. Stick

9:03

around, it's bullseye from maximumfun.org and NPR.

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9:43

There are a lot of beaches out there,

9:45

but only one is the beach. Myrtle Beach

9:47

has 60 miles of ocean

9:50

views, over 2,000 restaurants,

9:52

hundreds of attractions, and live music

9:54

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the beach. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Plan

10:06

your getaway at visitmyrtlebeach.com. Welcome

10:30

back to Bull's Eye. I'm

10:33

Jesse Thorne. My guest is Twyla Tharp. She's a dancer and

10:35

choreographer who's worked on hundreds of shows and movies. One

10:38

of the greatest choreographers ever. She is 82 years

10:40

old and still doing it. She just debuted a

10:42

show she choreographed in New York City. She's

10:46

working on even more. When she and I talked in

10:48

2020, she had a new book called Keep

10:51

It Moving. Lessons for the Rest of Your Life. Let's

10:54

get back into our conversation. Can you give me an

10:56

example of what you're doing? Can

10:59

you give me an example of a way that

11:01

you explored what your body

11:03

could do when you were a kid? Like

11:07

something that you wanted to do and had

11:09

to work to achieve? Or something that you

11:11

found unexpectedly? I grew up on a

11:13

farm. I

11:16

grew up working in a drive-in theater. All

11:19

of these things provide

11:21

with labor wonderful results.

11:24

I was gifted with many kinds of lessons as

11:26

a child. One

11:29

of my favorite images of myself

11:31

at work as a four-year-old is I got

11:33

a little pair of point shoes, which

11:35

really I shouldn't have had, but I

11:37

had them anyway and would put them on

11:39

and would pull my little Red

11:41

Rover wagon with comic books

11:45

down to the drugstore where I could exchange them

11:48

for other comic books. I made

11:50

very certain that everybody would see me

11:52

running down on my toes as a

11:55

four-year-old. From that point of view,

11:57

my memory is metaphor

12:00

already was that I was a

12:03

dancer, not a kid pulling a

12:05

wagon with cartoon books in it.

12:08

Did you think then that you

12:10

were going to be a dancer

12:12

for your entire life? I didn't think I

12:14

was. I was. Were

12:16

you always sure of it? I've always moved

12:18

from the time that, as I said, I

12:20

was, you know, from with my mother playing

12:24

music from the time I could move, from

12:26

the time I could stand, from the time

12:28

I could balance, I've always been

12:30

in movement. Would I attach the word dancer

12:33

to it? Not necessarily, but it would never

12:35

occur to me that I wouldn't be moving

12:37

and creating ritual

12:40

in movement. What do you mean by that? Well,

12:42

for example, when my family moved from

12:44

the Midwest to Southern California, we moved

12:47

into a rather arid place

12:50

and there was,

12:53

there were snakes and there were

12:55

tarantulas, there were rattlesnakes. I

12:58

had a cat. The cat was

13:00

being approached by

13:02

a rattlesnake. I picked up a

13:04

hoe. I hit the snake on the head. I

13:06

draped it over a tree branch and started doing

13:08

a dance to triumph over

13:10

the power of the snake. Fortunately,

13:13

my father came and saw what

13:15

was happening and got the snake

13:17

before it came too. Otherwise,

13:20

my dance might not have been able to materialize

13:23

and so we say grow onward.

13:26

So when did you think Twyla that

13:28

it was possible to be a dancer,

13:30

not just as a way

13:32

of being in the world, but

13:35

as a way of earning your

13:37

daily bread? I

13:40

have never really thought of it, fortunately, as

13:42

being a way of earning my daily bread.

13:45

I've thought of it always as being something

13:47

that I had to do and made the

13:50

most sense to me to do and which

13:53

would allow me to be most productive

13:55

and give

13:57

the most of what I had to.

14:00

our culture and that either I would

14:02

be able to support myself or not,

14:04

but it was never about making money.

14:08

Did you have an idea when you were

14:10

in college of what

14:15

kind of dancing you wanted to spend your life doing? No,

14:20

I have studied many

14:22

different forms of dance and

14:24

as a young college

14:27

student, I was hell-bent

14:29

on experiencing as many different

14:31

forms and shapes of dance

14:33

as I could possibly access.

14:36

Obviously New York, or maybe not

14:38

obviously, but New York City in

14:40

the 60s offered a

14:43

phenomenal range of dance styles,

14:46

techniques, intentions,

14:49

necessities, and I tried

14:51

to expose myself to as many of

14:54

these as I possibly could just to

14:56

know what could be done. What was

14:58

possible? And then when I decided that

15:00

I would, for

15:03

an assortment of reasons, some good, some bad,

15:06

start out trying to make my own dances, the

15:09

only ground line I

15:11

had was to try to find

15:13

a starting place I had not

15:16

already seen nor experienced.

15:18

How old were you when you auditioned to

15:21

be a racquet? I auditioned

15:23

to be a racquet probably when I

15:25

was about 21, maybe

15:27

22, something like that. What

15:29

did you think it was going to be like? What

15:32

led you to audition? Well,

15:34

at that point I was having to pay

15:36

some bills. So I was taking classes

15:41

and some very famous dancers

15:43

from New York City Ballet would be in class

15:45

and they'd have, it's a

15:47

one o'clock class, twelve o'clock class, and

15:50

they'd have on like three pairs of eyelashes

15:52

and saying, hey, why have you got on

15:54

three pairs? Because we got to get back

15:57

to the show. They were supporting themselves at

15:59

the city. ballet and we're talking principal

16:01

dancers here by taking a job at

16:03

Radio City. That's what paid their bills.

16:07

So what was it like when

16:09

you auditioned? Well, you know, I

16:11

did my best. I did quite

16:13

well. I had a very strong

16:15

technique. They were impressed. Good legs,

16:17

good proportions. So as

16:20

I say in the book, I was

16:22

called to the table in the front of

16:24

the room, young lady, or foitez, which they

16:26

were, excellent, very good. But could

16:28

you smile? And as

16:31

you can tell from my tone of

16:33

voice, I'm not always up for smiling

16:35

and I that's the way it is.

16:37

I don't, in other words, to me,

16:39

dancing is not pretend. Dancing is real.

16:42

So I walked out because I knew

16:44

I couldn't pretend to smile

16:46

when my body was doing 48 foitez

16:49

to the left with a double every

16:51

third one. This is no fun. This

16:53

is work. So

16:56

I was supposed to make it look fun. I

16:59

don't think so. How do you

17:01

feel about that attitude now? Oh, no, you would have

17:03

to do it if you're getting the check. That's part

17:05

of your job. No, as a

17:07

director, obviously, acting is a different thing.

17:10

But for me as a youngster, as

17:12

a dancer, I was not acting. I

17:14

was expressing what the body could

17:16

accomplish. I went to college pre-med

17:19

because I wanted to understand

17:22

what the body could do.

17:24

And I found that the

17:27

study involved in becoming a

17:29

physician was so

17:31

intense and in many ways I

17:33

felt I could actually study

17:36

the body better in a studio. How's

17:39

that? Because I

17:41

could ascertain how the body and

17:43

the mind interact and how one

17:46

commands the other and sometimes the

17:48

other commands the one. And why

17:50

is that and how is that? And

17:52

I think psychology in tune with

17:55

anatomy is obviously engaged in that

17:57

enterprise, but I've spent hundreds

18:00

of thousands of hours investigating

18:02

that question. Early

18:05

on, early in your career

18:08

that is, you

18:10

were choreographing dance that was

18:12

not set to music. Why

18:17

did you want to do that? Because

18:19

I, from my

18:21

musical studies as a youngster,

18:24

knew that people

18:26

respond. Audiences are more comfortable verbally

18:28

and with what they hear than

18:31

with what they see. They're much

18:33

more unfamiliar with judging

18:35

and gauging just from what they

18:37

see. So if I put a

18:39

dance phrase on a happy piece

18:41

of music, everybody is going to

18:43

have one response, take the exact

18:45

same movement, put it on a

18:48

quote, sad piece, they'll feel totally

18:50

different. So my intent for

18:52

five years was to study what

18:55

movement alone could convey. And

18:58

that you cannot do when music

19:00

accompanies because there's a blend there,

19:03

there are synapses, there are connections

19:05

that will taint the

19:07

experiment, if you will. That

19:09

must have been hard. It was very

19:11

hard and we loved it. It

19:14

was, we were very, very

19:16

difficult. We

19:20

were not lovable. There

19:24

wasn't a lot of a Rockette style

19:26

smiling going on? No,

19:29

no, no, basically we had a

19:31

very famous deadpan and

19:34

that's basically what we did. We

19:36

considered expressiveness to be a betrayal

19:38

of the physical reality. You might

19:40

want to quote that, it's pretty

19:42

good. I

19:45

mean, it's a nice piece of business. I'm

19:47

not sure that expressiveness doesn't exist

19:50

within physical reality though. Perhaps,

19:52

but you know what I'm saying. So

19:54

I'm being a little sarcastic and a

19:56

little, we were young and we were

19:58

being very, very. extreme and we were

20:01

carving out an area

20:03

for ourselves that nobody else

20:05

wanted, basically. And we

20:07

were able to launch from that point, but

20:09

that became an identity and then you can

20:11

either go with it or go against it.

20:14

What did you learn you could do

20:16

or not do that was

20:18

different from the dancing

20:20

that you had been doing to that point, which

20:22

I assume was primarily set to music? No,

20:25

not necessarily. I mean, I've been a student

20:27

of dance from the time, you know, I'm

20:29

a tiny, tiny child and a lot of

20:31

the time you practice exercises and

20:33

it has nothing to do with music. It

20:35

has to do with the rhythm of the body.

20:38

So it was nothing strange

20:40

to drop the music. Sometimes we

20:42

used it in the studio. We

20:44

just didn't perform with music. How

20:47

did it play differently without the

20:49

music? Well,

20:52

first of all, people, if there are

20:55

junctions, points in the movement

20:58

where there are unison,

21:00

for example, as done without music,

21:02

audiences really do wonder how can

21:04

they do that? Because

21:08

they don't understand or they're unwilling to

21:10

grant the intelligence of the body and

21:13

want to believe that it's the mind that

21:15

controls it. And if there's no sound coming,

21:17

how does that work? It baffles

21:20

them. I'm baffled right

21:22

now, Twyla. I'm sorry about that. You

21:24

will have to go out and run

21:27

with no earphones on for at least

21:29

half an hour and then you'll know

21:31

what I mean. Why

21:36

did you stop doing that? Because

21:39

I had a child needed to buy

21:41

diapers and I knew that people would

21:43

pay me much more money if I

21:45

were more entertaining. Do

21:49

you like being entertaining? I love being

21:51

entertaining. I'm a very good entertainer. I grew up

21:53

on cartoons, my parents, as I said, owned a

21:55

movie house. And I grew up working in the

21:57

movie house from the time I was eight until

21:59

I was eight. went to college. And

22:01

my most important experiences in the

22:04

movie theater, of course, were the

22:06

musicals, but also the cartoons. Because

22:09

cartoons have a

22:11

very fast logic. The sound

22:14

effects are extremely well utilized

22:16

in relation to the action.

22:19

And as I said, they're fast. You

22:21

have to keep ahead of your audience. Not

22:23

too far, just enough. Do you

22:26

like to dance at a party or a... No,

22:28

I don't go to parties. What

22:31

about a wedding? You must go to weddings. No, I

22:33

don't go to weddings. Although I have

22:35

been to one or two weddings and

22:38

do love the fact that dancing happens

22:40

here, because it's obviously a very

22:42

sincere expression of joy. Did you

22:44

participate in that expression of joy?

22:48

Well, it depends on the

22:50

person involved. You know, there

22:52

are many circumstances. Shoes would be

22:55

amongst some of the circumstances. What

22:58

kind of shoes are we talking about? Well, you'd have

23:00

to have comfortable ones, is my point.

23:02

In the days of attending weddings, I

23:04

think I was probably wearing high heels,

23:06

and they do have their restrictions. So

23:09

I'm not a trained social dancer. That I

23:11

do not pretend to be.

23:13

And when I've worked on projects

23:15

that required that element in, say,

23:17

the film, I've studied

23:20

it and can produce

23:22

it. But it does

23:24

not come naturally to me. I never went

23:27

to a high school dance. I

23:30

was practicing at home. Wow.

23:35

Now, talk about things that sound hard. That sounds hard

23:37

to me. But was it hard for you

23:40

or did it feel right? No, I

23:42

think that I have been for what...

23:44

I mean, whatever the word shy means,

23:46

I have had my share of that.

23:48

I've also had my share of

23:50

very, very dedicated and disciplined

23:53

parenting. And

23:57

social behavior was not on the agenda.

26:03

This is Bullseye. I'm Jesse Thorne. I'm

26:06

talking with dancer and choreographer Twyla Tharp.

26:09

Are there things that you miss doing

26:11

that you can't do anymore physically? Well,

26:15

which answer would you like? The one

26:17

that says, I will find something new

26:19

here? Or the one that says,

26:21

of course, anybody who has been

26:23

able to jump six feet off the ground

26:25

is going to miss it when they can't.

26:28

But there is always

26:30

the remembrance of what that was.

26:33

And there is always the moving

26:35

in that direction and the sense

26:37

that, okay, physically, I'm not going

26:40

that extra five feet.

26:43

But look how grand that one

26:45

foot is. Wow. Look, I always

26:48

said, okay, I was a very,

26:50

I had many skills as a

26:52

dancer. And I felt that I

26:55

was in

26:57

some ways outside the human realm,

26:59

that most people would not be

27:01

have any sense at all of

27:03

where I was physically. And

27:05

I used to wonder, what will it

27:08

be like when I don't have this

27:10

facility anymore? When I am a, forgive

27:13

the word, regular mortal, when I'm

27:15

more a normal body

27:18

in movement, what will that

27:20

feel like? And ultimately, the

27:22

big question, what is the

27:24

one single movement you

27:26

have left? Oh,

27:30

man, this isn't a rhetorical question. Which

27:33

one? The

27:35

one movement you have left? No, you

27:37

keep doing your movement every day. And

27:40

as time goes by, you will

27:42

find what one you have left.

27:44

That's not rhetorical. That's exponential. What

27:46

was the first time you got

27:49

hurt badly? I've

27:51

been very fortunate. I've had very, very few

27:53

injuries. I had an injury on a foreman

27:56

film with

27:58

a group of extras. I

28:00

was dropped one time from

28:03

a difficult partnering move, and

28:06

I have broken a couple of

28:08

metatarsals, and I've torn a rotator

28:10

cuff. This is not a big

28:12

deal for moving as long and

28:15

as much as I have. When

28:18

you choreograph, do

28:21

you imagine the movements

28:23

in your own body,

28:26

or are you imagining the dancers who

28:28

are in front of you making

28:33

those movements? Six and one half dozen of

28:35

another, I can work both ways. If I

28:37

want a movement that is going to set

28:40

a standard, which we will all address in

28:42

order to allow the audience to see one

28:45

thing, a tried in many different ways,

28:47

I'll do it on myself. If I'm

28:49

working with a specific dancer, there's no

28:51

way I can imagine what they do,

28:54

other than to suggest try this, try

28:56

that. I may think I occupy their

28:58

bodies. I tease all the time about

29:01

the body snatchers and the pea pods,

29:03

and I go in and I become,

29:05

and in some ways I can become

29:08

very close to, I can feel what

29:10

a dancer's body can

29:12

do, can probably do, can maybe

29:14

try, but ultimately I can

29:17

only do what that dancer can

29:19

do. So it becomes about presenting

29:21

them with the right launching pad

29:24

to go in a direction where

29:26

something can be discovered. Is

29:29

part of what you're doing like what

29:32

an editor does, which is to say

29:35

recognizing and forming the

29:37

special things about

29:40

the performers that you work with? No,

29:43

it's not editing. It's,

29:45

I'm not sure that I can find

29:47

you a comparable here, because

29:50

it's not as though they come in with

29:52

the material done and show it to me

29:55

and I say, take this, output this in.

29:58

They don't have the material. So,

30:00

it has to be derived. Do

30:04

you think differently about choreographing

30:07

work that is intended

30:10

significantly to entertain and

30:15

work that is intended significantly

30:17

towards some other aim? Like

30:21

what? Something without smiling. Very

30:24

good. I understand about

30:26

audiences. I've spent a lot of

30:28

time. I've watched tens

30:30

of thousands of shows as

30:33

an audience person. And

30:35

I appreciate that position

30:38

and communicating to an

30:41

audience. And

30:43

I don't see it as selling out to

30:45

work towards delivering

30:48

something that can communicate to

30:50

other people and have meaning.

30:54

I often say if the

30:56

audience doesn't leave our concerts, our

30:58

shows feeling better, we failed. And

31:01

it's that simple. And I do believe that. On

31:03

the other hand, I can also work in

31:05

a mode where I'm going for

31:07

the absolute and

31:10

everyone is free to watch

31:12

it. But you know what? None

31:14

of that watching counts. Only

31:18

myself and the person

31:20

engaging in that activity can say it

31:22

was done. It doesn't matter what someone

31:24

else says. I can work that way

31:26

as well. Can you give

31:28

me an example of a time when you worked in that

31:30

way in that latter way? Of

31:33

course. I mean, the first

31:35

part of the career was totally engaged

31:37

in that fashion. And when we

31:40

bring back any of the old reps, something

31:42

like the fugue, it's totally about showing the

31:44

audience, allowing the audience

31:46

to see what we believe is right.

31:49

And I'm always amazed when audiences love the fugue

31:52

because I think they're going to walk out on

31:54

it or be bored or whatever, and they're not.

31:57

They are engaged by the enterprise, by

31:59

the commissary. by the dedication, by the

32:01

sincerity of the search. What

32:04

are you searching for? What does it mean? What

32:07

is right? If

32:10

you have an ear and you listen

32:12

to say a chorus, you will hear

32:14

if a voice

32:16

is out of tune. You will give me

32:18

that, right? Sure. Same

32:21

thing is true of movement. You'll

32:23

have to give me that. All

32:26

right. So it

32:28

is a sense that the

32:31

movement is in some way

32:33

harmonious with itself? That

32:35

it's correct. That it's

32:38

righteous. And you

32:40

want me to be able to describe to you

32:43

exactly what that is, you would have to see

32:45

it. Right. Yeah,

32:48

I mean, we're doing our best. It's a radio

32:50

show, you know? Oh, you know

32:52

what? I love radio. And why do I

32:54

love it? Because it allows people to use

32:56

their imagination. I grew up on radio. There

32:58

was no TV. That's great. So

33:01

if you would like to imagine,

33:04

we could imagine a dance. We could

33:06

imagine forces coming from the right, forces

33:08

coming from the left. We could imagine

33:10

them colliding. That might be

33:13

a good thing, but probably not. So

33:15

we can imagine them crossing. How close

33:18

should they cross? As close as possible.

33:20

We can imagine that, right? Yeah.

33:23

That would be a righteous thing if

33:26

that were a part of the

33:28

overall intention of the work. Do

33:30

you feel, at this point in your

33:33

life, more interested in trying

33:35

something that you haven't done before or getting

33:39

better at something that you've done

33:42

pretty well but could be better? Both

33:44

simultaneously. How's that?

33:47

Think about it. Repeat your words and

33:50

think about doing them both simultaneously.

33:53

Something new and doing

33:55

something better. They can

33:58

be done simultaneously. What

34:01

are you most excited about doing

34:03

that is both of those things right now? Well,

34:05

this is a question that I

34:08

often get asked usually towards the end

34:10

of an interview what's next. And I

34:12

always have a stock reply, which

34:15

is that I don't talk about it because

34:17

there are a number of reasons. One, it's

34:19

going to change radically before it actually happens.

34:22

I would have lied to you. Secondly,

34:25

we can talk about something or

34:27

we can do something. So

34:29

I don't talk about that, which is to

34:31

come. But basically because I have

34:35

a general sense, I have an intention, I

34:37

have an energy, I have a drive, I

34:39

have a desire, I have love, I

34:42

have people with whom and for whom I

34:44

want to work. But the

34:46

specifics will come

34:48

to pass in real time. You

34:52

work primarily now almost

34:54

exclusively as a choreographer. You don't perform

34:56

as a dancer very much. Oh,

34:59

that's so untrue. I dance

35:01

every day in the studio. How

35:04

do you think these guys know what to do

35:06

if I don't show them? I

35:09

said work and perform, Twila. Listen

35:11

man, listen to me. Every rehearsal

35:13

is a performance. Every performance is

35:15

a rehearsal. Are

35:18

you afraid of dying? What kind

35:20

of question is this? We're doing a, we're

35:22

doing here a seminar on a book called

35:24

Keep It Moving. We are not

35:26

going to die. Goodness,

35:28

because I'm super afraid of dying. Well,

35:31

you know, go out and try it once or

35:33

twice and then you'll get over this fear. Twila

35:39

Tharp, I'm really grateful to you for taking all this

35:42

time to be on Bullseye. Thank you.

35:44

Thank you very much. I'm sorry we

35:46

did so much talking. It's a little

35:49

doing. Well, all right. You can make

35:51

up for it starting right now. Twila

35:53

Tharp. right?

36:01

Her book is Keep It Moving, Lessons

36:03

for the Rest of Your Life. It's great. Twyla's

36:06

company is also embarking on a

36:08

60th anniversary tour all over the

36:10

country. It's just called Twyla

36:12

Tharp Dance. We'll have a link to

36:15

dates on the Bullseye page at maximumfun.org.

36:24

That's the end of another episode of Bullseye.

36:26

Bullseye is created from the homes of me

36:28

and the staff of Maximum Fun in and

36:30

around Greater Los Angeles, California. Although

36:32

I was glad I was

36:34

in the office the other day because the social

36:37

media person for Judge John Hodgman, another show

36:39

I work on, Nattie Lopez stopped by. She

36:41

was staying with her dad in West Covina

36:43

and guess what? They didn't have anything to

36:46

do so they made chocolate chip cookies and

36:48

then they brought them to the office and

36:50

I ate a bunch of them. Our

36:53

show is produced by Speaking Into Microphones.

36:55

Our senior producer is Kevin Ferguson. Our

36:57

producers are Jesus Ambrosio and Richard Robey.

36:59

Our production fellow at Maximum Fun is

37:01

Daniel Huesias. We get booking help from

37:03

Mara Davis. Our interstitial music is by

37:06

DJW, also known as Dan Wally. Our

37:08

theme song is Huddle Formation, written and recorded

37:10

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37:15

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37:17

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37:22

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37:24

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