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0:47

This is But Why, a podcast for curious

0:49

kids from Vermont Public. I'm Jane Lindholm.

0:52

On this show, we take questions from curious kids

0:54

all over the world, and it's our job to

0:56

go in search of answers.

0:58

When I was little, I used to have lots

1:00

of dreams where I could almost

1:02

fly. I would be running along on

1:05

flat ground, and then I would leap into the air.

1:07

And while I couldn't fully take off and soar

1:10

like a buzzard or an eagle, I could extend

1:12

my jump way beyond what I could do

1:14

in real life and then slowly glide

1:17

back down to the ground. My clothes

1:20

and hair would flap out behind me, and I could

1:22

go so fast I would feel the wind in

1:24

my face. Then I'd hit the ground

1:26

running, take a couple of steps, and leap

1:28

again. I could do it over

1:30

and over. I loved those

1:32

dreams. I've been thinking

1:34

about them this week because of today's episode.

1:37

We are answering questions all about bird

1:40

flight. Melody and I have been

1:42

taking turns to research your answers, and

1:44

later on in the episode, we're going to go to a nature

1:46

center to learn more about soaring

1:49

birds and how they use wind currents

1:51

to conserve energy.

1:53

One of the questions I've been trying

1:55

to answer is this one. from

2:01

Brandon and Matilda, Canada.

2:04

And my question is, why do boys

2:06

fly instead of just walking

2:09

like people and other animals? Hi,

2:12

my name is Daisy, and

2:14

I'm from California. This

2:16

is Nate's oath from R&T, Massachusetts.

2:19

I'm four years old. My

2:21

name is Violet, and I live in Charlotte,

2:23

North Carolina. I'm Mackay.

2:26

I'm from Waybridge, Vermont.

2:29

Why do birds fly?

2:32

Birds use flight for all kinds of things.

2:35

It helps them get their food, like berries or nuts

2:37

up high in trees, or even to

2:39

catch food, like insects. I

2:42

keep beehives in my yard, and every summer I

2:44

watch catbirds swooping down to

2:46

catch honeybees in mid-flight. Birds

2:50

also fly to avoid the things that want

2:52

to eat them, and to get to

2:54

locations where they have the best chance of survival,

2:57

like the many species that are currently starting

2:59

their migrations from northern hemisphere

3:02

spots that are about to get cold to

3:04

warmer locations where it's easier to survive

3:06

the winter.

3:07

But perhaps a bigger question is,

3:10

how did birds start to

3:12

fly? How did these animals begin

3:14

flying when other animals, like us

3:16

humans, can't, even if we want

3:19

to, except in our dreams?

3:21

The ancestors of birds,

3:23

dinosaurs, started flying more

3:25

than 160 million years ago. Scientists

3:29

have found fossils of a dinosaur called

3:31

Archaeopteryx that had wings

3:33

and feathers and was able to fly, although

3:36

maybe not particularly well. So

3:38

how did dinosaurs, like Archaeopteryx,

3:41

start flying? It

3:42

turns out that dream I used

3:44

to have about leaping and gliding

3:47

is one of the theories. This idea

3:50

is that birds started flying by leaping

3:52

and gliding as they ran along the ground, kind

3:55

of like how turkeys fly today.

3:58

Another ground-up hypothesis.

3:59

is that these dino birds

4:02

used wings and feathers to help them climb

4:05

up steep slopes or tree trunks, like

4:07

running up a wall, and that evolved

4:09

into flying.

4:11

But another theory is the tree-down

4:14

theory.

4:15

This idea is that birds used feathers

4:17

and wing structures to help them glide

4:19

from tree to tree, or from a

4:21

tree to the ground, the way flying

4:23

squirrels do today. And eventually,

4:26

they evolved to be able to fly longer and

4:28

farther distances.

4:30

You've likely heard the word adaptation

4:32

before, right? A change in a

4:34

living organism that allows it to better survive

4:37

in its environment.

4:39

Well, not all the body parts

4:41

that birds use to fly are adaptations.

4:44

I learned a new word today, exaptation.

4:47

Exaptation is when an

4:50

animal takes something that evolved

4:52

for one reason, an adaptation, and

4:55

uses it in a new or different way.

4:58

Dinosaurs had feathers long before

5:00

they could fly. Their feathers were probably

5:03

used to help keep them warm as insulation.

5:06

But they became essential in the evolution of

5:08

flight, which was a new use that

5:10

they hadn't initially evolved for. So

5:13

feathers are an exaptation.

5:16

Now birds have all kinds of

5:19

specialized feathers that help them fly in

5:21

really cool ways. So feathers have

5:23

become adaptations again, too. My

5:26

name is Lily. I'm five

5:28

years old, and I'm from Georgia. How do

5:30

birds fly? My name is Paxton,

5:32

and I live in Blaine, Washington.

5:35

I'm six years old. I'm Phoebe, and I'm five

5:37

years old. I live in

5:39

Egan, Minnesota. Hi, my name

5:41

is Brianna, and I'm eight years

5:44

old, and I live in McAllen,

5:46

Texas.

5:46

My name is Luca. I live in Narsena,

5:49

South Africa, and I'm eight years old. I'm

5:51

Joseph. I am 11 years old. I'm

5:55

from Dublin, Ireland. Hi, I'm

5:57

Jane. I'm five years old, and I live in Eagle

5:59

Mount, South Africa.

5:59

Hello, I'm Grace.

6:02

I'm five. I live in Cheltenham,

6:06

England. My name is Natalia

6:08

and I'm five and a half years old.

6:12

And I live in Lowell,

6:14

Maryland. My name is Leah

6:16

and I'm six years old and I'm from Yohanno,

6:19

Ohio. My name is Chelsea

6:22

and I am seven years old. I live

6:25

in Pittsburgh, Kansas. My name is

6:27

Lewis. I am seven years

6:29

old. I'm from Kansas

6:31

City and my question is, how

6:34

do birds fly? How

6:36

do birds fly?

6:38

That last question came from five-year-old Ansel

6:40

in Newark, Delaware. And Fiona in

6:42

Winnipeg, Canada also wants to know how birds

6:45

fly.

6:46

Birds' bodies are adapted

6:48

for flight. We were talking

6:50

a minute ago about feathers, but

6:52

wings are also really important

6:55

when it comes to flight, and the shape

6:57

of the wings matters. Bird

6:59

wings are shaped like an airfoil.

7:02

An airfoil is a shape that's designed

7:04

to make flight possible and efficient. We

7:06

call it aerodynamic. An

7:08

airfoil is a curved surface rounded

7:11

on top and thicker in the front, gradually

7:13

sloping back to be very narrow. Bird

7:16

wings have this shape, and so do airplane

7:19

wings

7:19

and fish fins. Those

7:22

airfoil-shaped wings have feathers that

7:24

are strong and flexible. If

7:26

you've ever found a feather on the ground, you've probably

7:29

noticed that the quill of the feather

7:31

is hollow. The quill is the

7:33

long shaft that all the other frilly

7:35

pieces attach to.

7:37

Most birds also have hollow

7:39

bones, which makes their bodies light

7:42

and strong. The rest of the bird's

7:44

weight is centered in its body. Okay,

7:47

so that's how the shape of the bird helps it fly.

7:50

But how do they do it? Well, birds

7:52

have to flap their wings to get the air

7:54

moving around them. They aren't just flapping

7:56

up and down like you would flap your arms. They're

7:59

using those wings to make the wings fly.

7:59

to move air around

8:02

the wing. This generates thrust.

8:05

A plane would use a propeller or a

8:08

jet engine, but a bird can do

8:10

it using the muscles in their chest. If

8:12

you watch a bird, you'll sometimes see them jump

8:14

a bit on takeoff as they're flapping their

8:16

wings. Once the air is moving,

8:18

the air going over the top of the wing has to travel

8:21

farther and faster than the air under

8:23

the wing because of that rounded shape.

8:26

So there's less pressure on the top of the wing

8:28

and the bird has lift

8:29

and then they're flying.

8:31

Birds will flap their wings in flight

8:34

to create that forward thrust and

8:36

the air rushing under their wings will maintain

8:38

lift. Some birds will take

8:40

a break from flapping to soar.

8:43

In a little while, we'll talk about how they use

8:45

special body adaptations and wind currents

8:47

to do that. My name

8:49

is Blake and I'm seven years old.

8:52

I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, and

8:55

my question is why do hummingbirds fly

8:57

so fast? Hummingbirds are amazing,

8:59

aren't they? They can dive at speeds

9:02

of about 50 miles or 80 kilometers

9:04

per hour. One of the reasons they

9:06

look so fast, Blake, is because their wings

9:09

are moving so fast. Some hummingbirds

9:11

beat their wings 90 times per

9:14

second.

9:15

Try flapping your arms for one second. How

9:19

many flaps did you get? One, two,

9:21

maybe three? Imagine if you

9:23

could do it 90 times in one second.

9:26

Ready, go. Yeah,

9:28

I couldn't. Hummingbirds are unique

9:31

in the bird world because they can fly backwards

9:33

as well as forwards and they can hover

9:35

for a really long time.

9:37

They actually beat their wings in a figure

9:39

eight pattern, which means they're pushing air

9:42

both forward and back and down,

9:44

allowing them to generate that force called lift

9:47

in both directions of their wing strokes.

9:50

And even though they're so tiny, hummingbirds often

9:52

travel thousands of miles during migration,

9:55

sometimes not stopping to rest

9:57

for 500 miles or more.

10:06

Now let's go from some of the smallest

10:08

birds to something much bigger. Remember

10:11

how I said that some birds soar? Raptors

10:15

are soaring birds.

10:17

Raptors are medium to big birds that eat

10:19

other animals. They are predators. They're carnivores.

10:22

Some raptors include owls, hawks,

10:24

falcons, and eagles. At certain

10:27

times of the year, raptors will take advantage

10:29

of changing air temperatures to soar

10:32

on special gusts of wind called thermals.

10:35

We visited VINs, a nature center

10:37

and bird rescue in Cuichi, Vermont to

10:40

find out more about raptors and

10:42

how they do this special kind of flying. And

10:44

we spoke there to an educator named Anna Morris.

10:47

Well, she was the

10:49

human educator. She also had a

10:51

winged educator with her. Hi

10:55

Anna. Hi Jane. And hello to whoever

10:57

this is. Who is this? This is Northfield.

11:00

Northfield is a broad-winged hawk. Oh,

11:02

broad-winged hawk sounds like maybe

11:04

he has broad wings? You would be right

11:06

about that. He has big wide

11:09

flat wings that help him to soar. Oh,

11:12

soaring. So he is one of the raptors

11:14

that soars. Absolutely. Okay, and

11:16

how does a bird like Northfield soar? Well,

11:19

he's going to use those wings to catch a

11:21

lot of wind up underneath him. These

11:24

birds are looking for particular

11:25

kinds of air like thermals or

11:27

rising columns of hot air that come off the

11:29

land during the day or mountain updrafts

11:32

that come from the wind blowing over mountain

11:34

ranges like the Appalachians. So he's

11:36

looking for those particular kind of highways

11:38

of wind to carry him up into the sky

11:41

and then southward on his winter migration.

11:44

Why not just flap your way there? Well, that

11:46

takes a lot of energy that really

11:48

if you stand there and flap your arms for a really

11:50

long time, you're going to get tired and so would

11:52

these birds. So it helps them to save energy

11:55

to

11:55

not need to eat as much food while

11:57

they're traveling. And it's amazing the

11:59

shape.

11:59

of their wings and the shapes of their bodies

12:02

are what helped them to have this very

12:04

efficient form of flying so

12:06

that they can do that migration. It

12:08

takes so much time and energy. Now Northfield

12:11

himself cannot soar. Why

12:13

not? That is true. He actually, as

12:15

a baby, fell out of his nest. And

12:17

the person that found him brought him to

12:19

our wildlife clinic where we were able to

12:22

see that he had broken his shoulder. And

12:24

unfortunately, that injury didn't heal

12:26

properly, so he really can't fly

12:28

at all. He can barely

12:29

fly like 20 or 25 feet, let alone 3,000 miles

12:32

to South America. So

12:36

he now is an education ambassador and helps

12:38

us to teach about soaring birds. Now

12:41

Anna was telling us earlier about how

12:43

birds' wings are developed to help

12:45

them be able to fly like that. But

12:48

it's also really important

12:50

what kind of wind is out there, what kind of

12:52

air currents are moving through the landscape

12:55

that the birds can take advantage of. So let's talk

12:57

about two of them. One is thermal

12:59

soaring. Raptors fly on

13:02

thermals, and that's when warm

13:04

air, which is down towards the bottom

13:07

near the land, that has been heated by the

13:09

sun, rises. Because as you've probably

13:11

heard, warm air rises. And

13:14

that helps lift the birds up so

13:16

they can get higher into the air. Birds

13:19

like the hawk that we just saw also

13:21

rely sometimes on updrafts.

13:24

Now updrafts occur when the

13:26

air and wind is moving along a landscape

13:29

and then hits an obstruction, like a cliff

13:31

or a hill. The air has to turn

13:34

upwards to get through and

13:36

over that obstruction. And the birds can

13:38

take advantage of that air rising

13:40

too. It's really neat how these birds

13:42

have adapted to be able to use the

13:45

landscape to their advantage to have

13:47

the most efficient way of flying.

13:50

Thanks to Anna Morris and everyone here

13:52

at VINs for teaching us a little bit more

13:54

about the science of soaring.

14:04

We visited Vins as part of our

14:06

new educational video series called

14:09

But Why Adventures? Northeast

14:11

Nature. It's a monthly video

14:13

series for educators. All

14:15

through this school year, we'll be exploring things

14:17

happening on the landscape each month, particularly

14:20

in the northeastern part of the U.S. and Canada,

14:22

where we're living. Maybe

14:25

your class or homeschool would like to use these videos.

14:27

We also have curriculum lesson guides

14:29

that go with them.

14:31

Have your adults take a look and sign up

14:33

at butwhykids.org slash

14:36

nature. Coming up, why

14:38

do birds fly in a V?

14:40

How high do ducks fly? And do

14:42

birds ever fall down while they're flying?

14:46

This is But Why. I'm Jane Lindholm,

14:48

and today we're learning all about how birds fly.

14:51

We just heard about special adaptations

14:53

raptors have that allow them to fly without

14:56

flapping their wings, using special types

14:58

of wind to help move them up and

15:00

forward. That's really efficient

15:02

flying, because the birds don't have to use

15:05

all of their energy flap, flap, flapping.

15:07

But that's not the only way birds have

15:09

learned to make flying a little easier. My

15:12

name is Teddy. I'm eight years old and

15:14

I live in Wacomo,

15:16

Minnesota. Why do geese fly

15:19

in a V shape? My name's Melissa

15:22

and I am seven. Why do

15:24

geese

15:25

fly in a V

15:28

shape?

15:29

In the spring and fall, you might look up

15:31

and see a flock of geese flying high overhead,

15:34

squawking as they go, all flying

15:36

in formation in the shape of a V, or

15:38

maybe a checkmark. Just like

15:41

the raptors using thermals to conserve

15:43

energy, geese are conserving energy

15:45

by flying in a V. But they're not

15:47

using thermals, they're using each other. Here's

15:50

how our friend Bridget Butler, better

15:52

known as the Bird Diva, explains it. You

15:56

have to fly a really long distance

15:58

when you're migrating

15:59

and you want to conserve serve as much energy

16:01

as possible. If you stood there right now and you

16:03

flapped your arms and you just keep flapping

16:05

and flapping and flapping, you're gonna get tired pretty

16:08

quickly. But if you work as a team together,

16:10

you can decrease the amount of energy you

16:12

have to use. So when you fly in a V, what

16:15

the geese are doing is they're drafting each other.

16:18

So they're kind of providing a wind break

16:20

for the bird in front of them. So they stack

16:22

up just right a little bit above each

16:25

other and next to each other in order

16:27

to take advantage of breaking the wind

16:29

and then the wind that's coming off of the goose's

16:31

back in front of them, which we call an upwash

16:34

or an updraft. And they flap

16:36

together and they fly together and

16:38

Jane, they take turns, which

16:41

is really awesome. So that goose that's

16:43

out front leading the way and breaking the

16:45

wind will drop back and someone

16:47

else will take that place in

16:50

order to give that goose a little bit of break

16:52

and a chance at taking advantage of the

16:54

updraft. If you are looking up and seeing

16:56

those flocks of geese, it's obviously light

16:59

enough for you to notice

16:59

the shape they're flying in. But geese

17:02

prefer to do their long distance flying

17:04

at night. It's a little bit safer

17:06

because their predators are probably sleeping and

17:09

it's cooler because the sun's not beating down

17:11

on them. Flying makes them pretty hot, you know. But

17:14

there's another reason too.

17:15

Those thermals that the raptors love

17:18

can actually mess with the geese and make

17:20

it harder for them to fly. But at

17:22

night the air tends to be calmer with fewer

17:25

thermal gusts, much better

17:27

for the geese. My name is Marcus

17:29

and I'm six years old. I live in Quebec,

17:32

Canada and my question is how

17:34

high do ducks fly?

17:35

The highest flying ducks people

17:38

have recorded are a couple of species

17:40

of ducks that fly over the Himalayan

17:42

mountain ranges in Asia to migrate.

17:45

These ducks have been known to fly at altitudes,

17:48

heights, of more than 20,000 feet, 6,000 meters. There's

17:50

less oxygen in the air at that altitude

17:55

and these ducks are flying hard. So

17:58

that's amazing!

17:59

But most ducks fly much lower to

18:01

the ground, anywhere from a couple hundred

18:03

to a couple thousand feet in the air. My

18:06

name is Chase. I live in Tretoloma.

18:09

I'm three and a half. Why do birds

18:11

fly? And

18:13

never fall down. Birds

18:16

don't usually fall when they're flying. That's because

18:18

they're using the forces we learned about earlier, lift

18:21

and thrust, to keep them in the air. But

18:23

occasionally things go wrong for birds, and

18:26

often that has to do with people and things

18:28

we've created like buildings or airplanes

18:31

or distracting lights at night. Sometimes

18:34

large groups of birds might fall if they're

18:36

flying close together and are disturbed by a predator,

18:39

but those instances are rare.

18:41

My name is Naomi and my question is

18:43

why can't chickens fly? My

18:45

name is Sahara. I

18:48

live in New York City. I'm

18:50

five years old. Why do

18:52

chickens have wings if they can't fly?

18:55

Great question, but Naomi and Sahara?

18:58

Chickens can fly. It's

19:00

true they don't fly long distances like some

19:02

of the migrating birds we were just talking about. Chickens

19:05

fly primarily to roost, basically

19:07

to go to bed. Chickens need to find

19:10

a safe place to spend the night. They

19:11

can't see much at all in the dark, and

19:13

they like to get up off the ground away

19:15

from potential predators. They get

19:18

there by flying. And they can

19:20

fly short distances for other reasons during the

19:22

day, if they feel like it, like to get away from

19:24

kids who are chasing them, or to hop a

19:26

fence if there's something better to eat on the other side. Unless

19:29

you've spent a lot of time with chickens, you

19:31

may never have seen one fly. Chickens

19:33

that live in coops might not have to roost up

19:36

high at night. They could potentially just hop

19:38

up. Chickens are domesticated

19:40

animals, meaning humans have been taking care

19:43

of them and breeding them for certain

19:45

characteristics for thousands of years. Some

19:48

breeds of chickens can fly really well, while

19:50

others have lost their ability for long flight because

19:53

humans have prioritized heavy bodies

19:55

or silky feathers, which are not good for flying.

19:58

But their wild ancestors may not be able to fly. most

20:00

certainly flew. Nicholas. And

20:03

where am I from? Michigan. Oh,

20:05

Michigan. Do penguins fly?

20:08

My name's Penny and I'm five.

20:12

I'm from Oregon. Why

20:14

do penguins don't fly? My

20:17

name is Charlie and I'm from Bryan,

20:19

Arkansas. I'm six

20:21

years old. My name is Sammy. I'm

20:24

five years old. I

20:27

live in Springfield, Virginia.

20:30

Hi, my name is Esperanza

20:31

and I'm six years old. And

20:34

I live in Union City, California.

20:36

My name is Grayson and I live in

20:39

Grand Connecticut and I'm eight years

20:41

old. Hi, I'm

20:43

Lila. I'm eight years old

20:45

and I live in Nampa, Idaho. Hi,

20:48

my name is Everly and

20:51

I'm four and I'm from Stratford,

20:54

Connecticut. How do penguins

20:56

have wings but they can't fly?

20:59

Penguins fly, they just do it underwater.

21:02

All right, that's a bit of a trick answer. Penguins

21:04

do not fly. They have evolved

21:06

into such good swimmers that their wings

21:09

aren't used for flying at all. In fact,

21:11

they're the only birds that can't bend

21:13

their wings. Their wings are stiff

21:15

and have changed so much from the wings of other

21:18

birds that many people now think of

21:20

them as flippers instead.

21:22

Penguins spend about three quarters

21:24

of their life in the water because that's where the

21:26

food they like to eat is. They can swim

21:28

up to 22 miles an hour, that's

21:30

fast.

21:32

They're also one of the few birds that don't

21:34

have hollow bones. Since they

21:36

don't need to lift their bodies up into the

21:38

air but instead need to get down under

21:40

the water, their dense bones are really

21:43

helpful.

21:44

Hello, my name's Declan and I live in Halifax.

21:46

I'm nine years old and my question is,

21:49

why can't some birds fly? Hello,

21:52

my name is Kefir. I'm

21:54

six years old and I live in Los Angeles, California.

21:58

I want to know,

21:59

Some birds, like ostriches

22:02

and emus, have feathers and wings,

22:05

but they can't fly.

22:07

In addition to penguins, ostriches,

22:09

emus, rias, and cassowaries are

22:11

all birds that can't fly.

22:13

Those are all big, tall birds with wings

22:16

that can't carry their heavy bodies. And

22:18

they have longer legs than many birds who do fly.

22:21

Birds that can't fly are missing a bone that would

22:24

attach to flight muscles. They tend

22:26

to have bigger bodies and longer legs than

22:28

birds that can fly, and feet that are adapted

22:30

to running. In fact, ostriches can

22:32

run 43 miles an hour, almost 70 kilometers.

22:36

That's almost as fast as a car driving down

22:38

the road.

22:39

Scientists think these birds have smaller

22:42

ancestors that could fly, but

22:44

at some point all of those species adapted

22:46

to bigger sizes and gave up their ability

22:49

for flight.

22:50

It's still not clear why. One

22:52

theory is that they didn't need to fly in order to escape

22:55

predators in their environments.

22:57

There are also a handful of smaller birds

22:59

that can't fly, including Waco and Kiwi,

23:02

and a handful of others. My name

23:04

is Ruby. I'm eight years old. I

23:06

live in Berkeley, California. My

23:08

question is, do birds

23:10

have fun flying,

23:12

or are they just looking for food?

23:16

I like this question, Ruby. The truth

23:18

is, no one really knows, because we

23:20

can't ask birds how they feel. It's

23:23

tempting to think birds have feelings just

23:25

like we do, but without being able to

23:27

experience what it's like to live inside

23:29

a bird's brain and body, we just can't

23:32

be sure.

23:32

Flying takes a lot of energy, so

23:35

most of the time when birds are doing it, they're doing it

23:37

for a reason. But I can tell

23:39

you that I would enjoy flying. I

23:41

sure did in my dreams as a kid. How

23:44

do you imagine flight?

23:46

Do you daydream yourself jumping

23:48

and gliding, flying from the trees

23:51

down, soaring like a raptor,

23:53

or going a mile a minute like a hummingbird? Ooh,

23:56

and where would you fly? Would

23:59

you migrate long enough?

23:59

distances every year so you could

24:02

see different parts of the world? We'd

24:04

love to see your pictures or any stories you

24:06

write about flying. Send them to questions

24:09

at but why kids org.

24:11

That's of course also where you can send your questions.

24:14

Have an adult help you record yourself. If

24:17

your adult has a smartphone they can use the memo

24:19

function or another free recording feature. Be

24:21

sure to tell us your first name, where you live,

24:23

and how old you are. And try to do it in a

24:25

quiet space, not in the car.

24:28

We can't answer all of your questions but we do listen

24:30

to them all and we love hearing your voices. If you're

24:33

not comfortable or able to record your

24:35

voice though you can always have your adult write

24:37

out your question. Again send

24:40

them to questions at but why kids org.

24:42

Our show is produced at Vermont

24:44

Public and distributed by PRX. Our

24:47

team includes Melody Beaudet, Kiana Haskin,

24:49

and me Jane Lindholm. Luke Reynolds

24:51

wrote our theme music. We'll be back in

24:53

two weeks with an all-new episode. Until

24:56

then stay curious.

25:01

you from

25:11

PRX