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in all states or situations. This

1:11

is But Why, a podcast for curious

1:13

kids from Vermont Public. I'm Jane Lindholm.

1:16

On this show, we take questions from curious

1:18

kids like you and we find interesting people

1:21

to answer them. Going through

1:23

all your amazing questions really makes me

1:25

hungry. And so today we're going to

1:27

give in to temptation and grab a

1:29

bite to eat. The

1:31

food we're going to be talking about is

1:33

something a lot of kids love. And

1:36

adults love it too. So

1:38

much so that this food might

1:40

be aiming for world domination. We're

1:43

talking about pizza. Do

1:46

you think pizza could be the world's

1:48

most popular food? We can't

1:50

find any stats to prove it. But

1:52

judging by how many people rank pizza

1:55

among their favorite things to eat, it

1:57

seems at least possible. You

1:59

can get pizza pizza in almost every country in

2:01

the world in one form or another. And

2:04

different cultures and communities take advantage of

2:06

local ingredients to really make pizza their

2:09

own. What's your favorite

2:11

kind of pizza? While

2:13

pizza may have originated in Italy,

2:16

New York was one of the first places

2:18

in the United States that pizza became popular.

2:21

So we thought we'd put your pizza questions

2:23

to a well-known New York pizza chef and

2:25

get some answers. My name is

2:27

Frank Pinello and I'm the

2:29

owner and operator of Best Pizza

2:31

in Williamsburg, which basically

2:34

means I'm in charge of

2:36

all the jobs at the pizzeria. Do

2:39

you make pizza ever? I

2:42

make a lot of pizza and pretty

2:44

often but not as often as I used

2:47

to make pizza. So in

2:49

the first four, six years of

2:51

us being open, I

2:53

made every pizza here every day. So

2:56

we would open at 11 o'clock in the morning,

2:58

close at 12 o'clock at night, and

3:00

there was only three of us. So

3:03

I was the guy making all the pizza

3:05

for everyone to eat. And as

3:07

we started to grow and pizzeria

3:10

started to become

3:12

more notable and we

3:16

got some good reviews, we got

3:18

busier and I was able to hire

3:20

some really great staff. So now I

3:22

have some really great

3:25

pizza makers and young cooks

3:27

in the kitchen. In addition to

3:29

making pizza, Frank is also a video star.

3:32

He hosted an online show called The Pizza

3:34

Show for Vice. So he's

3:36

used to talking about this kind of stuff.

3:38

Hi, I'm Belle. I'm five years old. I

3:41

live in Wisconsin and my

3:43

question is, how do

3:45

you make pizza dough? Hello Belle, that's

3:48

a great question. So

3:50

pizza dough is primarily made from

3:52

flour. So if you've

3:54

ever seen your family or friends

3:57

make a pie or make cookies

3:59

at home, that usually

4:01

starts with a dough, you know.

4:03

For cookies it's obviously a sweet

4:05

dough and for pizza it's not

4:08

sweet, savory. So

4:10

we basically take flour and

4:12

we mix flour with water, we

4:15

mix flour with yeast, and we

4:17

mix all of that up and

4:19

then there's a fermentation process. So this

4:21

is where the science comes in. Basically

4:24

the flour goes

4:27

from becoming almost like a dust into

4:29

a dough, like a play-doh, which I'm

4:32

sure you're all familiar with, and

4:34

if you leave it alone in the

4:36

right temperature the flour will start to

4:38

grow and the yeast will

4:40

eat the proteins in the flour and

4:43

it chemically changes the flour

4:45

into a dough. Yeast is a

4:48

single-celled organism that exists naturally in

4:50

the environment and yeast

4:52

is actually alive. So when

4:54

Frank says the yeast will eat the proteins

4:56

in the flour, that's not a figure of

4:59

speech. Yeast is

5:01

a sugar-eating fungus, but

5:03

you don't have to go to the pet store to buy

5:05

yeast, you can get it right in your grocery store. For

5:08

baking manufacturers take pure yeast and

5:11

feed it molasses and that

5:13

grows more yeast. Then they package

5:15

up the yeast and sell it to people who want

5:17

to make pizza dough or bread or whatever else you

5:19

want to bake. Before we

5:22

could buy yeast in the stores people

5:24

use the natural yeast in the environment.

5:27

If you combine flour and water and let

5:29

it sit in a warm spot the yeast

5:31

from the air or already present on the

5:34

flour starts to feed off the sugar once

5:36

the flour gets wet and that grows more

5:38

yeast. If you've ever heard

5:40

someone talking about their sourdough starter that's

5:43

what they mean, letting the yeast

5:45

grow and multiply so they can then

5:47

add that starter, that yeast, to their

5:50

bread dough. But why would

5:52

you want yeast in your dough? Yeast

5:54

is a rising agent or an

5:58

ingredient that you use to help rise

6:01

the dough. The yeast are almost

6:03

like you're these small little friends

6:05

that you have that eat up

6:07

the dough and help break

6:09

down the proteins and the gluten. So

6:12

in other words if

6:14

the yeast does

6:16

its job and breaks down the dough then

6:18

when you have the pizza at home it's

6:21

a lot easier for you to chew the

6:23

pizza and then it's a lot easier for

6:25

your stomach to digest and that's

6:27

something that helps a lot of us out

6:30

because it could be tough to digest a

6:33

big ball of gluten otherwise. When

6:35

yeast is breaking down that gluten it

6:38

eats the sugar and breathes out carbon

6:40

dioxide and that makes bubbles in the

6:42

dough and the dough starts to rise

6:44

with all those bubbles. When

6:47

you bake the dough those bubbles get trapped

6:49

and the finished pizza crust or slice of

6:51

bread is fluffy and airy not hard and

6:53

chewy. Hi my name

6:55

is Ariel I'm seven years old

6:58

and I live in Long Island

7:01

New York and my question is

7:03

how do gluten free foods rise because

7:05

my best friend is gluten free? Ariel

7:08

from Rhode Island that's a great question. So

7:12

the gluten free doesn't have gluten

7:15

in it obviously it's in the

7:17

name gluten free so rather than

7:19

using flour from wheat

7:21

you have to use flours from

7:23

different items like rice or

7:26

tapioca and

7:28

those are are different flours

7:30

that come from different ingredients and

7:32

they don't have the same makeup

7:35

as wheat flour does so

7:37

in order to get a nice gluten-free

7:39

dough we have to add

7:41

some other interesting products and what we do here

7:44

at Best Pizza is we

7:46

make our own gluten-free dough it's from 10 different

7:49

flours some of

7:51

the ingredients are you know brown

7:53

rice flour regular

7:55

rice flour tapioca flour

7:58

and we add a something called

8:00

xantum gum and xantum gum

8:03

is an ingredient that you see all

8:05

over all over the world and

8:07

all different types of foods and

8:09

it helps bind the flour

8:12

so when we make our

8:14

gluten-free dough we're able to get a

8:16

little bit of a rise out of

8:18

it so people that have celiac or

8:20

are gluten-free so they could enjoy pizza

8:22

as well. We've definitely established that pizza

8:24

starts with dough but so do a

8:26

lot of other things. What

8:28

makes pizza pizza? Let's

8:32

establish a baseline. Most

8:34

people agree that pizza is basically

8:36

a flat bread dough covered with

8:39

some kind of toppings that is

8:41

then baked but how

8:43

thick the dough is how much crust is

8:45

free and clear of the toppings and

8:47

what those toppings actually are depends on where

8:49

you live and what you like and

8:52

some people have pretty strong opinions about

8:54

what kind of pizza is best. There's

8:57

a lot of debate over which style of pizza

8:59

is best. There's thin crust, there's thick crust, there's

9:01

deep dish. What kind of pizza do you make?

9:04

What we make here at Best Pizza and

9:06

what we're known for is New York style pizza

9:09

and although pizza was

9:12

invented in Italy I would

9:15

like to say that here in New York we perfected

9:18

it. What's

9:20

special about New York style pizza? Over

9:23

the years as the Italian immigrants

9:25

came to New York around the

9:27

turn of the century you know

9:29

the early 1900s up until today

9:32

you know pizza has

9:35

been made and has been

9:37

embraced by America very much

9:40

so. The New York style was

9:43

born at a necessity. It was a

9:45

very inexpensive way to feed people. A

9:48

lot of the bakeries in and around New

9:50

York are now pizzerias including

9:53

mine so where we

9:55

are right now is at Best Pizza in

9:57

Williamsburg Brooklyn and we have

9:59

a big old hundred-year-old oven that used

10:02

to be a baker oven and

10:04

it was used to feed a lot

10:06

of the factory workers on the water

10:09

and you know once those

10:11

factories started getting converted into apartments and

10:13

so on they changed from

10:15

being just a bakery into a pizzeria

10:18

which became really the more popular food

10:20

at the time. Frank grew

10:22

up enjoying pizza but how did he go

10:24

from a pizza eater to a pizza chef?

10:26

You know I come from a family of

10:28

immigrants you know my father came here from

10:30

Sicily and my mother's you

10:33

know two sisters were born in Sicily

10:35

my mother was born here so I

10:37

grew up in a family that all

10:40

spoke Sicilian and Italian but they also

10:42

were very amazing cooks they didn't do

10:44

it for a living none of my

10:47

relatives owned restaurants but they cooked

10:49

like they should have owned restaurants

10:52

so as a young boy I spent

10:55

a lot of time with my grandmother

10:57

in the kitchen and with my grandfather

10:59

cleaning vegetables and making sausage and teaching

11:01

me a lot about food and

11:04

as I got older and started working

11:06

in restaurants I realized there was a

11:08

connection you know between my family and

11:10

between this restaurant work and

11:14

I ended up working for a chef as

11:16

I got a little bit older who went

11:18

to the Culinary Institute of America which is

11:20

a French culinary school

11:23

in the Hudson Valley so a little bit upstate New

11:25

York and it's a beautiful

11:27

campus and it's a very strict school

11:29

almost like a military school but for

11:32

cooking and that's

11:34

really where I learned you

11:36

know the nuts and bolts

11:38

of being a chef understanding

11:40

different cuisines like French cuisine

11:42

Japanese cuisine Mexican cuisine other

11:46

than Italian food which I grew up eating so

11:49

Frank got that rigorous training and how

11:51

to be a chef and he says

11:53

he uses all of those tools still

11:55

today even though it might

11:57

seem like pizza is a really easy

11:59

thing to make It is very simple.

12:01

Pizza is, if you think about

12:03

it, it's only three ingredients. It's

12:05

the dough, it's the sauce, and the

12:07

cheese. But the preparation of

12:10

all of those three ingredients are

12:12

very complicated behind the scenes. So

12:15

it's simple in theory, and simple by

12:17

just looking at it. But

12:20

when you dig into it a little bit more,

12:22

it gets a lot more complicated. And

12:24

I would say the biggest thing is

12:26

that pizza is

12:29

basically a mix between baking and

12:32

cooking. So in

12:34

baking, there's a lot of science and math. You

12:36

have to be very exact. You

12:38

can't really play around with the recipes. You

12:40

have to make the recipes as they are.

12:43

And in cooking, you're able

12:45

to be a little more creative.

12:48

You can throw different spices in,

12:52

different temperatures, and there's a

12:54

little bit more room for creativity. In

12:57

pizza, it's a mix of baking and

12:59

cooking. So my education

13:01

at the Culinary Institute,

13:03

or the CIA as it's called,

13:06

was perfect because they taught us

13:08

baking and the science behind baking,

13:10

which is very important in pizza.

13:12

And then they taught us cooking

13:15

and how important ingredients are, and

13:18

that all related to what I do. Plus, Frank

13:20

has had to learn how to be a business

13:22

owner, hiring and mentoring staff,

13:24

making sure customers know about his restaurant,

13:26

doing all of the accounting and keeping

13:28

track of money, and keeping his equipment

13:31

in order. It's a lot of work.

13:33

But if you really love pizza as much

13:36

as Frank does, maybe you'll become a pizza

13:38

chef someday. Thanks to

13:40

Frank Penello for sharing his pizza journey with

13:42

us. Coming up,

13:44

is pizza Italian, American,

13:47

or global? This

13:51

is, But Why, a podcast for curious

13:53

kids. I'm Jane Lindholm. We're

13:56

learning about a food that is a favorite

13:58

of a lot of kids. And- adults. It's

14:01

gooey, it's cheesy, it's pizza.

14:04

I mentioned that pizza is a food

14:06

you can eat almost anywhere. But how

14:08

did it take over the globe? Hi,

14:11

my name is Valerie. I'm

14:13

six years old and I'm recording

14:16

from Sunnyside, Queens.

14:19

And my question is, who invented

14:22

pizza? To answer this

14:24

question, we tracked down a food historian.

14:27

Scott Wiener is another lifelong pizza lover

14:29

in New York. He loves pizza

14:31

so much that he even runs pizza tours

14:34

of the city. Scott started

14:36

out with the same question Valerie has.

14:39

The word pizza meant something very different

14:41

in the 10th century than it means

14:43

today. And it meant something very different

14:46

again in the late 16th

14:48

century than it does today. So

14:50

that journey of the word is an

14:52

interesting one. In the 10th century, it

14:55

was this broad term that just referred

14:57

to cookies and cakes and mostly sweet

14:59

items. Nothing with tomato on

15:01

it because the tomato did not exist in

15:03

Europe at the time. The

15:05

tomato was brought over from Central America in the

15:07

late 1400s, early 1500s. And when it landed in

15:09

Europe, it

15:13

was brought over by the Spanish. And

15:15

the Spanish in the late 1400s and early 1500s had

15:19

a colony in what is now Southern

15:21

Italy. And what now includes

15:23

the city of Naples, which is the

15:26

birthplace of pizza. So the tomato landed

15:28

in Naples only in the

15:31

early 1500s. And

15:33

we couldn't really have something that we all

15:36

agree as pizza without the tomato being in

15:38

the picture. So the word

15:40

pizza or the idea of

15:42

pizza is much, much, much

15:44

older than what we think

15:46

of as pizza today. Exactly

15:49

correct. It was a broad

15:51

term that would gain some

15:54

specificity in different parts of

15:57

Italy. So in Naples, when

15:59

people started making these flattened

16:01

doughs with items baked on

16:03

top. That became

16:05

known as pizza napolitana, the

16:08

pizza of Naples. So

16:10

just like if you like to make

16:12

cookies at home, and maybe

16:14

what you call cookies are just chocolate

16:17

chip cookies, that's cookies to you. And

16:19

then maybe you have a cousin who lives a

16:22

thousand miles away, and their

16:24

standard cookie is a butter cookie.

16:27

With no chocolate chips, no brown sugar,

16:29

maybe it's something totally different. They're both

16:32

cookies, but that's the

16:34

broad term. We need some specificity.

16:36

A butter cookie is different from

16:38

a chocolate chip cookie, and that's

16:41

why pizza napolitana is

16:43

very different from, for

16:46

instance, pizza Siciliana, Sicilian

16:48

pizza. And so the

16:50

term pizza is this broad word. And

16:53

you need another word to help figure out, well,

16:55

what exactly am I talking about? What version is

16:57

this? So how did

17:00

we get from pizza in

17:02

Naples, Italy to pizza in

17:04

the United States? It's

17:07

really interesting to follow the history

17:09

of pizza, because it's not like

17:11

it started in Naples and then

17:14

just spread outward. Naples is in

17:16

the south of Italy. And

17:18

if you go about two hours north of Naples,

17:20

you find Rome, very big

17:22

city, did not have

17:24

very much pizza until the early 1900s. And

17:28

even then, it barely had any until the

17:30

1950s. So

17:32

pizza did not spread around the rest of

17:34

Italy. And that's because Neapolitans

17:36

were the ones who made pizza. And

17:39

it wasn't until Neapolitans left Naples

17:41

that the pizza left with them.

17:44

And that happened in the late 1800s. There

17:47

was a big push to

17:49

move to places like New York City,

17:52

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, New Haven, Connecticut,

17:54

Trenton, New Jersey, and even

17:56

parts of South America, because

17:59

they had... factory jobs

18:01

that needed workers. And

18:03

those workers did not have to speak English.

18:07

And Southern Italian men, who were farmers mostly,

18:09

realized that they could work in these jobs,

18:11

make so much more money than they would

18:14

make as farmers in Southern Italy. And

18:16

here's the kicker, they would be able to afford to

18:18

eat meat every single week. And

18:22

that brought in lots of Southern Italian

18:24

immigrants into those cities that I

18:26

just mentioned. And that's how pizza spread. So

18:28

all those cities got pizza in the late

18:30

1800s and early 1900s, whereas if you

18:35

go to Australia or Russia or

18:37

China, you wouldn't find pizza until

18:40

much later. So how did it

18:42

spread then beyond the United

18:45

States and beyond where people from

18:48

Italy and specifically from Naples were

18:50

immigrating? The big push after

18:53

the spread of pizza around the United States

18:56

didn't happen until after the Second World War.

18:58

And that was this combination of

19:03

economic boom in the United

19:05

States combined with the

19:07

rise of media. Once

19:10

you had radio and newspapers

19:12

and everybody singing and recording

19:14

songs that mentioned, oh

19:16

if the moon hits your eye like a big

19:19

pizza pie, well suddenly that food

19:21

spreads way past the places that make it. And

19:23

in the 1950s and 1960s there are articles all

19:25

over the

19:28

world that are explaining what pizza

19:30

is. And one of the big

19:32

events that helped spread it was the 1964 World's

19:36

Fair. It's an event that happened

19:38

in New York City, in Queens,

19:40

and at that event there was

19:42

a pavilion for understanding the culture

19:45

of India, understanding the culture of

19:48

Uzbekistan, and understanding the culture of

19:51

Egypt. And then

19:53

there was a pizza pavilion called

19:56

the Mastro Pizza Pavilion and

19:59

you could get pizza by the slice, you

20:01

could watch people tossing dough up in the

20:03

air. And this didn't just introduce

20:05

pizza to people. It

20:08

introduced the concept of

20:10

pizzerias to people who

20:12

might have wanted to open their own business. And

20:15

so the company that ran it

20:17

also happened to sell pizza ovens,

20:20

dough mixing machines, tables

20:22

with refrigeration underneath. So

20:25

if you enjoyed it at the World's Fair, you

20:27

might think, well, this is a

20:29

business that I could get into. And

20:32

so the World's Fair in 1964 really

20:34

exposed the whole world, not just to

20:36

pizza, but really to this New York

20:38

style of pizza. And the rise of

20:40

global media, TV, and now the internet

20:42

has spread all kinds of cultural phenomena

20:44

from one place to another. Pizza

20:46

is just one of them. My name

20:49

is Hugo. I live in Burlington,

20:51

Vermont. I'm five years old, and

20:53

my question is, do all countries

20:55

have pizza? That's a great question,

20:57

Hugo. There are hundreds of countries

20:59

around the world. Here

21:01

at But Why, we haven't checked with every single

21:03

one of them to make sure they have pizza

21:06

or a local dish that's pizza-like. But

21:08

truly there are a lot of different types

21:10

of pizza around the world. Some

21:13

cultures like to put their own spin on

21:15

toppings, like in Sweden, where they make a

21:17

kebab pizza, or in France,

21:19

where you'll often find an egg on top. Some

21:22

countries, especially in the Middle East, enjoy

21:24

flatbreads that are similar to pizza. They're

21:27

thin-crusted with toppings that reflect the

21:29

local tastes. In Argentina and

21:31

other countries, light and airy focaccia, a

21:33

type of bread with toppings, is a

21:35

favorite. In Scotland, some people

21:38

deep fry pizza. In Mexico,

21:40

there's a type of pizza made with a

21:42

tortilla topped with beans and queso. And

21:44

in Poland, pizza is made on a baguette and

21:46

is a popular street food. I

21:49

have personally eaten pizza in

21:51

Nairobi, Kenya, Siem Reap, Cambodia,

21:54

and Pisco El Kichile. Even

21:56

here in the United States, we have lots

21:59

of local variation. New York

22:01

style pizza is a round pizza that's

22:03

quite large, 16 to 20 inches in

22:05

diameter. It's

22:08

cut into eight slices usually. The

22:11

center of the pizza is pretty thin, but

22:13

the edge, the outside, the ring around the

22:15

outside, usually has a little bit of puff.

22:18

And it's topped with a

22:20

type of cheese called low moisture mozzarella. It's

22:23

the kind that you usually see shredded. And

22:26

when you eat it, you eat it by

22:28

picking it up, you fold it in half, and you

22:31

can eat it while standing up or while

22:33

walking. And that's why it's New York style

22:35

pizza, because New Yorkers are always walking. And

22:38

if it's food that we need to sit down to eat, it's

22:41

not right for us. Which

22:43

brings me to Chicago deep dish, a

22:46

very different style of pizza. It's

22:48

usually two inches thick. It

22:51

has a dense, brittle

22:53

biscuit-like crust that has a lot of

22:55

oil in it. And

22:58

it's baked in these round cake pans.

23:01

And the dough rises up the

23:03

sides of the cake pans so that

23:05

the toppings are more like

23:07

fillings in a pie. It starts

23:09

with cheese, then you get your toppings,

23:12

usually sausage in Chicago. And then the

23:14

last thing on the pizza is sauce.

23:17

So the sauce is at the very top, kind

23:19

of unusual. Then there's

23:21

Neapolitan pizza. Neapolitan is very

23:23

small. It's usually about 12 inches

23:26

in diameter. And it's very puffy on

23:28

the outside, thin in the

23:30

center, and it usually bakes in under two

23:32

minutes. And it can

23:34

bake that fast because the ovens are

23:36

over 800 degrees Fahrenheit. Sometimes

23:38

they're more like 900, 950 degrees,

23:40

which is around over 500 Celsius. And

23:46

so they bake so fast, which means the

23:48

crusts are a little softer. You won't

23:51

get crunch on a Neapolitan pizza.

23:54

Then there's Detroit style pizza,

23:56

New Haven style pizza, California

23:58

pizza, and whatever you want. like

24:00

where you live. So

24:02

with all of this variation, is

24:04

pizza Italian? Is it something

24:07

we can claim as American now? Or

24:09

is it something else entirely? I

24:11

don't think anybody owns pizza and I

24:14

don't think anybody has owned it since

24:16

the early 1900s. I strongly

24:19

believe that pizza is

24:21

this food that even at its origin

24:23

in Naples, it's made up

24:25

of ingredients from all over the world.

24:28

The tomato is from Central America, basil

24:32

and mozzarella are really from

24:34

South Asia, from India. Olive

24:37

oil is a Mediterranean product that's not

24:39

specific to southern Italy. Wheat

24:42

is from the Fertile Crescent in what we now

24:44

call the Middle East. So every

24:47

component of pizza is

24:49

not originally from Italy, but it came

24:51

together in southern Italy and it was

24:53

this southern Italian ingenuity that pulled it

24:56

together and made that original product. But

24:59

today, pizza has become everybody's.

25:03

So whoever is making the pizza, that

25:05

style is theirs and it's not even

25:07

just a city or a

25:09

state or a country or a continent.

25:11

Sometimes it's really the people who make

25:13

it. So as

25:16

much as we know that the origins of pizza

25:18

were in southern Italy, I

25:20

don't think it's an Italian food anymore. It

25:23

really is global. What's your

25:25

favorite kind of pizza? Either style or

25:27

toppings or both? I

25:29

love a cheese pizza. I'll

25:31

eat anything on a pizza, but a

25:33

cheese pizza, New York style, that's

25:36

the one that I could eat every day and there

25:38

are even some weeks when I do eat it every day. Actually,

25:42

Scott has a limit on the amount of pizza he

25:45

can eat. 15 slices

25:47

a week. That's a lot. What

25:49

would your limit be if you were allowed to

25:52

eat as many slices as you'd like? That's

25:55

it for this episode. Thanks to Scott

25:57

Wiener of Scott's Pizza Tours and to

25:59

Frank Penello of best pizza in Williamsburg,

26:01

Brooklyn. If you have a question

26:03

about anything, you can send it to us. Have

26:06

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26:14

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26:16

to record in the car or a

26:18

noisy environment, unless your question is about

26:21

that noisy environment. Then

26:23

have your adult email the file to

26:25

questions at but whykids.org. We

26:27

can't answer every question we get, but we do listen

26:29

to them all. The but

26:32

why team includes Melody Baudette, Kiana

26:34

Haskin and me, Jane Lindholm. Joey

26:36

Palumbo produces our YouTube Bites series.

26:38

Go check it out. We're

26:41

produced at Vermont Public and distributed by

26:43

PRX. And our theme music is by

26:45

Luke Reynolds. We'll be back in

26:47

two weeks with an all new episode. Until

26:49

then, stay curious. Hi,

26:57

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