0:00

I took that as a personal

0:00

nod to Kevin, thank you that

0:03

they recognize that all of the

0:03

content they have in there is

0:05

not a podcast that they're like,

0:05

technically, it's not a podcast,

0:08

but it's, you know, like the Joe

0:08

Rogan show is not a podcast

0:11

right now. It's a show. So I

0:11

really appreciate it that

0:13

Spotify is trying to win me over.

0:14

Is it working?

0:16

They're trying. It's a slow burn.

0:25

On this episode of

0:25

Buzzcast Alban is out, so we

0:29

have invited Krystal Proffitt of

0:29

the Proffitt Podcast and the

0:33

Poddy Report back on. Hi,

0:33

Krystal.

0:36

Yeah, I love being

0:36

here. Thank you for inviting me,

0:39

Jordan, and it's good to see

0:39

you, Kevin. Yeah, it's say that

0:43

because I literally was gonna

0:43

say I just saw Jordan. It hasn't

0:46

even been a week. We were

0:46

together like just hanging out

0:51

just a second ago. So yeah, this

0:51

is awesome.

0:53

So how was it? You guys

0:53

were just at Podcast Movement

0:55

Evolutions, right?

0:56

Yes. In Vegas.

0:58

Okay, so that is like a

0:58

conference that I've never been

1:01

to like, which is surprising

1:01

because I've been to most

1:04

podcast conferences, but I've never made it over to evolutions. And I've heard this

1:05

from from people. But I want to

1:08

hear your take on like, what is

1:08

the big difference between

1:11

Podcast Movement Evolutions and

1:11

the regular Podcast Movement, I

1:15

guess, proper, or original

1:15

Podcast Movement that takes

1:18

place every summer.

1:18

So for me specifically,

1:18

this is the first time I've ever

1:22

attended Evolutions, the last

1:22

time I went to a Podcast

1:25

Movement was actually in

1:25

Nashville in 2021. So the

1:28

comparison is like night day,

1:28

because that was like the height

1:32

of Delta and Mark Cuban being

1:32

there. And like all the things

1:35

that happened in Nashville that

1:35

year, but this one definitely

1:39

felt smaller. I had talked to a

1:39

few people that said that they

1:42

were expecting maybe 1500 people

1:42

there. I'm not sure what the

1:46

exact number was, but it just

1:46

felt a lot more intimate. The

1:49

other ones that I've gone to, I

1:49

feel like were just podcasters

1:53

everywhere. And they're like,

1:53

hey, you know, there's just like

1:57

a different kind of energy,

1:57

where everyone just felt like,

2:00

listen to my show. And this is

2:00

what it's about. And this is

2:04

what I'm trying to do. And that

2:04

Creator energy that I just I've

2:07

really felt at Podcast Movement.

2:07

The last time I went was missing

2:11

at this one. This one felt a

2:11

little bit more. I'm trying to

2:15

think of the right word to say

2:15

it because it's not a knock on

2:18

like industry podcast, but it's

2:18

it just felt more like corporate

2:22

in a way that it hasn't felt

2:22

previously at other podcasts

2:25

conferences. Like I felt like

2:25

there was a lot more suits.

2:29

That's the best way to say it.

2:29

Like there are a lot more suits

2:32

running around. Yeah, that I'm

2:32

like, Oh, they must be an

2:36

important person where I'm like,

2:36

Hey, I'm in my workout clothes.

2:40

And I'm just I showed up to

2:40

because this is how I podcast.

2:43

This is how I live my life. And

2:43

that was the biggest thing is I

2:47

felt like so much of it was

2:47

catered to industry

2:50

professionals, or people that

2:50

are looking to make not just a

2:53

business out of their podcast,

2:53

but like, create a brand like

2:57

smart lists. And you know, Joe

2:57

Rogan, and like these, the

3:00

biggest podcast in the world.

3:00

And that was the biggest one.

3:03

But Jordan, I don't know what

3:03

other things you want to add.

3:07

I definitely agree with

3:07

you that it felt a lot more

3:11

corporate, I think there was a

3:11

really heavy focus on branded

3:15

podcasts. There were so many

3:15

talks about that. But it was

3:18

definitely more intimate than

3:18

Podcast Movement. And it was so

3:21

weird because we were in such a

3:21

big space in this casino,

3:26

essentially. And I knew a lot of

3:26

people that were there. And for

3:31

like days, I was just like

3:31

circling the expo hall, like

3:34

hoping to see people. I

3:34

literally would like sometimes

3:38

be in the expo hall for like 40

3:38

minutes waiting for a session

3:40

and like, kind of looking for

3:40

people that I know. And like

3:44

nobody stopped to talk. Like I

3:44

didn't see anyone I knew. It was

3:47

so weird.

3:48

So this is very different

3:48

than what my perceptions had

3:51

been about Evolutions because I

3:51

thought, in my mind, Evolutions

3:54

was a place more for independent

3:54

podcasters and people who were

3:57

like looking to get into

3:57

podcasting, like a place for

4:00

beginners to go. But it sounds

4:00

like that's not either my

4:03

perception was totally off, or

4:03

it's like maybe evolutions is

4:06

shifting a little bit.

4:08

I think back again, I

4:08

don't like the comparison of

4:11

like my previous experience. And

4:11

this one, I would say that there

4:14

were so many more people just

4:14

getting started at the previous

4:18

Podcast Movement that I

4:18

attended, whereas this one,

4:21

there were still some beginners,

4:21

right? They had a beginner

4:23

tract, and they had, you know,

4:23

people that were they just

4:27

recently started in the last few

4:27

months or they were about to get

4:31

started. But I felt like that

4:31

was the exception and not the

4:34

rule. Most people were there

4:34

that were some of them that

4:39

didn't even have a podcast. They

4:39

were agents or they were podcast

4:42

networks, or they were editors

4:42

or managers that were looking

4:45

to, I guess find the next Joe

4:45

Rogan person like I don't know,

4:50

like I don't really know what

4:50

their whole shtick was, but I

4:53

felt like there was a lot more

4:53

of that that I hadn't seen

4:56

previously.

4:57

I think that this

4:57

Podcast Movement was a little

5:00

less attended because it was

5:00

based in Las Vegas. Like I had

5:04

talked to so many people. And I

5:04

was like, Are you coming? Are

5:06

you coming? And they're like,

5:06

No, I don't like, I don't like

5:09

Vegas. I don't want to go to

5:09

Vegas. This was the third time

5:12

I've been there. I really enjoy

5:12

walking around and like seeing

5:15

just all the sights and the

5:15

shows and stuff like that. This

5:18

was a very different experience

5:18

going to a conference there was

5:22

not so great. I mean, it was in

5:22

the casino, right? So like, you

5:27

just walked in, I had to wash my

5:27

clothes when I got home because

5:29

they just kind of smelled like

5:29

cigarettes. The other thing was

5:32

how expensive it was. It was

5:32

never that expensive before. So

5:37

Kevin, they had a Starbucks in

5:37

the hotel. I got to breakfast

5:42

sandwiches and two coffees. What

5:42

do you think that cost me?

5:45

It was expensive? I mean,

5:45

how is Starbucks pricing not

5:48

standardized across, at least

5:48

the US? You would think to

5:52

breakfast sandwiches and two

5:52

coffees that that should be like

5:55

no more than 20 to $23.

5:57

It was $50.

5:58

Yeah, that's crazy.

5:58

That's like more than airports.

6:01

Yeah. Oh, no, it was

6:01

more expensive than the airport

6:04

for sure. For sure.

6:06

So I want to touch on

6:06

the things that I did really

6:08

enjoy from Podcast Movement

6:08

Evolutions. And Kevin, you and

6:13

Alban had talked about how at

6:13

pod fest, like you had people

6:16

like Buzzcast listeners come up.

6:16

And I finally got to experience

6:18

that this time at evolutions.

6:18

And it was really fun. I got to

6:21

see people from the Facebook

6:21

group and get to hug them in

6:25

person. And that was really

6:25

awesome. And then also doing the

6:29

pod News Live show on the stage

6:29

at evolutions was really cool

6:33

moment. For me, that was really

6:33

fun. And it was great, because I

6:37

have always kind of had a little

6:37

bit of an insecurity about how

6:40

much I outline. I feel like I do

6:40

it too much where to the point

6:45

where it's like almost scripted.

6:45

And I was so relieved to see

6:48

that James and Sam actually

6:48

outline the heck out of the

6:52

Podnews Weekly Review. And I was

6:52

just like, yes, I've never been

6:56

so comfortable on stage, as when

6:56

I had that in my hand.

7:00

This is like the number

7:00

one thing that has helped me

7:03

because Jordan, Jordan and I

7:03

will always say like, we're on

7:06

the opposite ends of the spectrum, when it comes to editing, like Jordan knows how

7:08

to masterfully like curate

7:13

something that's just going to

7:13

be like, you know, the most

7:16

sweetest thing that could ever

7:16

hit your ears and me, I'm like,

7:20

I'm gonna record this and I'm,

7:20

unless I make a huge mistake,

7:23

there's gonna be absolutely zero

7:23

editing. And I'm gonna run that

7:26

maybe through magic mastering

7:26

and we're calling it. That is my

7:30

level of editing. But it really

7:30

does help the more that you have

7:34

things scripted out. And even if

7:34

you don't say it verbatim, I

7:38

always tell people like you want

7:38

to be scripted, but not sound

7:42

scripted. And that's where you

7:42

kind of it just comes in

7:45

practice, practice, practice,

7:45

practice, the more that you

7:48

record. And the more that you

7:48

put stuff out there. It just

7:51

really helps you read your

7:51

outlines faster or know like

7:55

those key elements that you want

7:55

to remember or say, or you even

8:00

want to quote yourself, and you

8:00

know, not be all weird about it.

8:03

But say something like, Oh, this

8:03

is the point I want to like,

8:07

reiterate like, say it once and

8:07

then say it again slowly,

8:11

because you're just trying to

8:11

put the emphasis on it. But it

8:13

really does help that script. I

8:13

love it.

8:16

Krystal, you ran a session, right?

8:17

Yeah, it was on the

8:17

beginner track. And it was

8:20

called How to Talk to Yourself.

8:20

And it was lessons learned from

8:25

1000 podcast episodes. So which

8:25

is crazy, crazy, like it is

8:30

bananas 1000 podcast episodes.

8:30

So for you know, anybody that

8:36

that doesn't know. So I didn't

8:36

mention earlier, I have a daily

8:38

podcast. And at this point, that

8:38

Daily Show, which I started in

8:43

2020 has 790 ish episodes that

8:43

we're up to now. So that one

8:50

alone has so many and then my

8:50

profit podcast has, you know,

8:54

400 So we're I mean, we're at

8:54

1100 episodes at this point. And

8:57

so I thought, Well, it'd be

8:57

really fun. I mean, first of

8:59

all, what a name right? Yeah.

8:59

1000 episodes, people are like,

9:02

cool. What in the world? What

9:02

are you talking about? But yeah,

9:05

that was it was so fun, and the

9:05

beginners that showed up there.

9:10

So this is one thing because

9:10

like Jordan, I said, it was very

9:13

intimate. And that wasn't always

9:13

like a bad thing. Like it was a

9:17

really awesome thing. Because I

9:17

felt like if the sessions would

9:21

have been a lot bigger, it

9:21

wouldn't have allowed for such a

9:24

I guess a space where people

9:24

could ask really good questions

9:28

and then like come up later and

9:28

chat with you or ask questions

9:31

like, Hey, let's go out to the

9:31

hall you know, and talk for a

9:34

little bit, which you don't

9:34

really get that if the sessions

9:38

were huge. And so that was that

9:38

was a lot of fun. But it was it

9:42

was great. I loved having

9:42

Jordan. Jordan was like my

9:45

cheerleader and she was like, Oh

9:45

my God! This is great. She

9:48

laughed at all my jokes which is

9:48

I mean to to anybody, like that

9:51

was fantastic.

9:53

And I have like a really

9:53

loud cackle so I'm sure that

9:56

helps. No, I loved that you had

9:56

like an Oprah moment. To have

10:00

like you get a book, you get a book.

10:02

Yes, yes. So I had my

10:02

husband go with me. And that was

10:07

fun too. So Jordan and I both

10:07

had our husbands. And that was,

10:10

that was interesting too,

10:10

because I had never gone with me

10:12

before. And he vaguely he's not

10:12

into podcasting. He's not in a

10:16

digital marketing online

10:16

business space. So he doesn't

10:19

really get to see what I do. And

10:19

so for him to come and help out

10:23

and watch me speak on stage, and

10:23

he handed out copies of my book,

10:27

to people that ask questions, it

10:27

was it was a lot of fun. It was

10:30

really cool.

10:30

It's great. So what were

10:30

what was the size of the rooms?

10:33

Like big rooms, but smaller

10:33

crowds? Or?

10:36

Yeah, I mean, well, I

10:36

would say it was like, the way

10:39

that the beginner room was set

10:39

up was kind of nice, because it

10:42

actually had tables and chairs

10:42

and everything, I would say that

10:45

they probably had them set up

10:45

for anywhere, probably 50 to 75

10:49

people to sit comfortably in

10:49

those rooms. And then I think

10:53

for my talk specifically, there

10:53

might have been around 30 ish, I

10:57

would guess.

10:58

I agree with you. I like

10:58

that session size, though, like

11:00

30, that's a good size. What I

11:00

don't like is when they put you

11:03

in a room that can like see 200

11:03

And then you have 30 people

11:06

Yeah, and it kind of zaps the

11:06

energy. But if you're in the

11:08

right size room for that size

11:08

crowd, then it can feel really

11:12

good, exactly what you said.

11:13

I felt about 50% full

11:13

like it felt like it felt like

11:17

it was just enough. And it was

11:17

again intimate enough and small

11:21

enough and and spatial wise for

11:21

the beginner tract was great

11:25

because it was more of a

11:25

rectangle room or a like

11:28

rectangle as in like wide.

11:28

Whereas some of the other ones

11:31

were very long and narrow. And

11:31

it made it kind of awkward

11:35

because you were super far away

11:35

from the stage. And some people

11:40

again, at a podcast conference

11:40

didn't know how to use their

11:42

microphone, which is really

11:42

funny, because you could tell

11:44

which ones were podcasters and

11:44

which ones weren't. Because you

11:47

could hear people screaming from

11:47

the back, like put the mic to

11:49

your mouth. Come on, like put it

11:49

up there. But it was it was

11:54

great. The size of the rooms

11:54

were awesome. And the intimacy

11:57

of having people tell you about

11:57

their podcast and ask you

12:01

questions was just I mean, it's

12:01

what I live for. And it was it

12:05

made it everything worthwhile to

12:05

go.

12:07

There was something in

12:07

your session that you had talked

12:10

about that really resonated with

12:10

me so much, and I wanted to talk

12:14

to you about it while I have you

12:14

on here. But you chatted about

12:18

how stumbling is necessary. And

12:18

I personally struggle with like

12:23

an intense fear of failure or a

12:23

fear of like judgment from

12:26

others. And so stumbling is not

12:26

something I want to do ever. I

12:31

think that your talk actually

12:31

helped me a lot. And yeah, so I

12:34

just want to talk with you a

12:34

little bit about your points on

12:37

that.

12:37

Yeah, to set up the

12:37

story a little bit, I shared a

12:41

little bit about how it's really

12:41

cool to share the highlight

12:44

reel, right, you're all the cool

12:44

things. I've spoken on stages.

12:48

I've done this, I've done that.

12:48

And that's the Instagram

12:51

highlights that everybody sees,

12:51

you know, everything that's on

12:54

your feed. And people are like,

12:54

Oh, you're so successful, or

12:58

you're so this or that. And I

12:58

love sharing the messy places of

13:02

my story. Because that's when

13:02

people really relate to you and

13:05

say, Oh, you've messed up to

13:05

like, you're not perfect,

13:10

because a lot of people,

13:10

especially podcasters, and

13:13

content creators in general,

13:13

think that so many of us just

13:17

woke up one day, turn on a

13:17

camera, put a microphone in our

13:20

hand, and we're like, oh, I'm a

13:20

YouTuber, I'm a podcaster. And I

13:24

never make mistakes. And I'm

13:24

like, oh, no, actually, I've

13:27

made all the mistakes, which is

13:27

why I can stand here today and

13:31

tell you what not to do. And so

13:31

I shared about, you know, being

13:36

a stay at home mom for several

13:36

years. And I was like, I don't

13:39

Is this do I need to just do

13:39

this with my life forever and

13:42

ever. And then I started

13:42

writing, I started blogging, I

13:45

did that really, really badly. I

13:45

always tell people, I was a

13:48

terrible blogger. And then my

13:48

blogging mentor started a

13:52

podcast and I was like, Oh, well

13:52

she can do this, then I can do

13:56

this. And so that's the

13:56

stumbling phases of me getting

13:59

into podcasting, and then

13:59

eventually figuring out like,

14:04

Oh, I really love this. Like, I

14:04

don't just love creating the

14:07

podcast, but I love helping

14:07

other people make it easier

14:11

because I can explain things

14:11

that aren't technical or that

14:14

aren't super complicated. And so

14:14

if I hadn't have started at that

14:19

point in my journey, I wouldn't

14:19

have stumbled into podcasting,

14:22

which is eventually what I did.

14:22

So you know, for anybody that's

14:25

listening right now, if you're

14:25

in this awkward stage of I don't

14:29

really know what I'm doing. I

14:29

just launched a podcast. I'm

14:32

just getting started. I'm trying

14:32

to figure this out, like kind of

14:36

sit in that awkwardness until

14:36

you can push through it because

14:40

Jordans had it Kevin's had it

14:40

like we've all had it. And you

14:45

don't have to have all the

14:45

answers all the puzzle pieces

14:48

like out on the table fit

14:48

together perfectly. To get to

14:52

that next step. Maybe figuring

14:52

something out is what you know,

14:56

who knows, maybe that's how they

14:56

ended up with chat. GBT. Yes No

15:01

fumbling around with stuff. And

15:01

they're like, Oh, hey, look, we

15:03

got this thing to spit some cool

15:03

stuff back out at us, you know.

15:07

So you just got to keep going.

15:08

Yeah, it's like a macro

15:08

version of trust the process,

15:12

for sure. And when you're a

15:12

perfectionist, it's really hard

15:15

to do that.

15:16

Yes.

15:17

There is this gift that

15:17

we all have when we first start

15:20

out in whatever creative

15:20

endeavor, you're starting out.

15:22

You don't have an audience yet,

15:22

right. And so in the podcasting

15:24

world, not only do you not have

15:24

an audience at the beginning,

15:27

but you might not have an

15:27

audience for a long time, it's

15:29

really hard to grow your

15:29

audience on podcasting. But in

15:32

podcasting, but instead of like

15:32

looking at that as a negative,

15:35

like I'm doing all this work,

15:35

and not a lot of people are

15:38

listening yet, like the other

15:38

side of the coin on that is that

15:41

you have this time to hone your

15:41

craft to get really good. And

15:44

while you're getting good, the

15:44

people who are following you

15:46

along while there might not be

15:46

many, they're cheering you on.

15:49

And they're they're becoming

15:49

these, like super fans of you.

15:51

So like when you get really big,

15:51

like everyone wants to be the

15:54

first fan of whatever bands like

15:54

there's a huge band, they're

15:57

super popular. You're like, oh,

15:57

well, I listened to them back in

15:59

the 80s. Right? Everyone wants

15:59

to be that person. Yeah. And so

16:02

people want to be like that for

16:02

podcasters, too. So they're

16:05

cheering you on, they want to be

16:05

your earliest fan. And they it's

16:08

so great for them to be a part

16:08

of that journey to listen to you

16:11

in the beginning and listen to you stumble, and listen, you stutter and feel awkward and

16:12

find yourself and find your

16:15

voice and build your confidence.

16:15

And then years down the road,

16:18

when you have a larger audience

16:18

or, you know, someone's looking

16:20

for new podcasts. And they can

16:20

recommend you, they can say, Oh,

16:22

I've been listening them for years, and they've been on this great journey. It takes a lot of

16:24

confidence. And for sure, like

16:27

podcasters talk all the time

16:27

about this imposter syndrome

16:30

that we all experience to some

16:30

degree. But like I think what I

16:34

hear you saying and it's very

16:34

encouraging to me, and hopefully

16:37

anybody who's listening, this is

16:37

like, instead of looking at it

16:40

as I have to perform, I have to

16:40

be perfect, like look at it as

16:43

the gift of I don't have to yet

16:43

like this is an opportunity for

16:46

me to figure it out and to get

16:46

better. And the few people that

16:49

are listening, they understand

16:49

that I'm not great. And maybe

16:52

that's what they like about me.

16:52

And so like push into that step

16:54

into that, and you'll get better

16:54

over time, but you got to stick

16:57

with it. You got to keep plugging away. You got to keep showing up every week and you

16:59

got to keep doing it because the only way you're gonna get better

17:01

is by keep doing it.

17:04

Yeah. And I want to

17:04

circle back around to bands are

17:07

being fans from the beginning.

17:07

Because Lance Bass from NSYNC

17:11

was there. We were fangirling.

17:11

Totally.

17:16

I literally got to the

17:16

keynote stage 20 minutes before

17:21

that, and I got a front row

17:21

seat.

17:24

So awesome. I saw her

17:24

up there with her phone. She was

17:26

like snapping pictures, take

17:26

videos. I was like I love it.

17:29

I did! I got a lot of

17:29

videos and I have my phone like

17:33

in front of my face like this.

17:33

And I know at one point like

17:36

Lance locked eyes with me, and I

17:36

know he saw me like with my

17:39

phone up in front of my face.

17:44

He's great. And he

17:44

hasn't aged a bit for anybody

17:47

wondering he hasn't aged a bit.

17:48

Yeah, he looks great.

17:49

What is Lance doing now?

17:49

Is he is he in podcasting.

17:52

He's like a cosmonaut.

17:52

And he's no, yeah, he's got a

17:57

podcast.

17:58

I just remember Guncle

17:58

and I thought that was the

18:00

funniest term ever.

18:01

So yeah, he's really big

18:01

on TikTok, which is Yeah, Guncle

18:06

Lance. So, gay uncle.

18:09

Your gay uncle Lance.

18:09

That was the best term. I'd

18:14

never heard that before. Like,

18:14

oh, my gosh, this is great.

18:16

That was actually really

18:16

great session. Yeah.

18:18

So he is and I don't

18:18

remember the name of their

18:22

organization, but it was for the

18:22

LBGTQ community and what they do

18:28

over on iHeart. So I know that

18:28

that was the thing that they

18:30

were talking about on the main

18:30

stage was the inclusivity and

18:34

like DEI, for just that. I'm

18:34

trying to think of what their

18:39

organization was called. But it

18:39

was it was really interesting to

18:42

hear about just having more

18:42

diverse voices and podcasting,

18:47

so it was a good session.

19:21

Okay, so also, at Podcast

19:21

Movement evolutions, James

19:25

Cridland from Podnews, got up

19:25

and did a session and he went

19:28

through his podnews report card.

19:28

Did you guys attend the session?

19:31

It was great. It was

19:31

really interesting. And he

19:34

started the report card out with

19:34

some context of information he

19:39

had gotten from pod track. And

19:39

this is going to sound a little

19:43

bit stat heavy, but like, bear

19:43

with me, because I know and this

19:47

slide came up, I audibly gasped,

19:47

I was like, This is so cool. So

19:52

the first slide was about the

19:52

audience of the platforms. And

19:56

you know, their share of a full

19:56

audience because they have done

20:00

this over 2 billion global

20:00

downloads in January of 2023. So

20:05

in January, a third of all US

20:05

podcast listeners, were using

20:09

Spotify as a platform. But

20:09

here's the kicker, this is where

20:13

things get interesting. The

20:13

total share of downloads, Apple

20:17

podcasts had 70% of the share of

20:17

downloads, even though they only

20:22

were a quarter of the platform

20:22

usage, which is crazy.

20:25

So when he put these

20:25

up, like it literally took my

20:29

brain a second to be like, Wait,

20:29

this makes zero sense to me.

20:33

Like, I don't understand what's

20:33

happening. Because I'm one,

20:36

you're saying that you know, a

20:36

third of all podcast listeners

20:40

on Spotify. But then you go to

20:40

the next slide. And it's 70% of

20:44

all downloads are coming from

20:44

Apple. And so I just I found

20:49

this to be so interesting. Well,

20:49

first of all, I don't use either

20:52

app for my podcast. Anyway. So

20:52

you don't know. I don't use

20:56

either. What do you use? So I

20:56

use good pods, like I'm a tried

21:00

and true, like, I love good pods

21:00

so much. It's the app that I

21:05

always use. So hopefully, it'll

21:05

be on the list one day, it's not

21:08

even on here. It's not it's in

21:08

the other category at this

21:11

point. But I just thought it was

21:11

so interesting, because I was

21:14

thinking, well, are people just

21:14

really listening to episodes?

21:19

Like, I mean, how is it such a

21:19

stark difference from the amount

21:25

of listeners to the amount of

21:25

downloads? I don't know, what

21:27

are what are your thoughts?

21:29

Right? So I have a theory, but I'm wondering, did James, did James present his own

21:31

theory on this?

21:33

I don't recall that he did.

21:35

I think that he went

21:35

into it. But again, this was

21:38

like, there were like, 1000s of

21:38

charts and this presentation. So

21:44

we want to we want to know your

21:44

theory. Kevin, What's your

21:47

theory?

21:47

All right. So my theory

21:47

is these apps work very

21:49

differently. Apple podcast is

21:49

set up as like a download app.

21:52

So when you follow a show, even

21:52

if you don't listen to the most

21:55

recent episode, that it's

21:55

downloaded, it has it queued up

21:58

in the background for you,

21:58

right. And so it's downloading

22:00

on a regular schedule, whether

22:00

you're listening or not. And as

22:04

long as you have some level of

22:04

interactivity with the

22:07

particular podcasts that you're

22:07

following, it will continue to

22:10

download. And so I think, I

22:10

think it's like, until I think

22:14

by default, until it has like

22:14

three episodes that you haven't

22:17

listened to at all yet, it will

22:17

just keep downloading. So as

22:20

long as you're listening to like

22:20

one out of every three episodes

22:22

that drop for a podcast feed,

22:22

it'll keep downloading them.

22:25

Spotify is very different. I

22:25

think, again, by default, I'm

22:28

not sure if you can get in and configure it to work differently. But out of the box,

22:30

I think it won't download

22:32

anything, like you'll follow

22:32

shows, and it will just have

22:35

queued up so you can tap them to

22:35

listen. But it won't actually

22:38

download anything until you tap

22:38

to listen to the episode. And so

22:42

I wonder if that's where the

22:42

huge discrepancy comes in.

22:45

Yeah, I think you're

22:45

right. And also, I'm remembering

22:49

that Apple podcasts, I think it

22:49

was last year rolled out the

22:52

autoplay feature, where it just

22:52

like, will queue up the next

22:57

podcast episode, and it will

22:57

auto play at the back end of the

23:01

episode that you just finished

23:01

listening to. And similarly,

23:04

Spotify actually just launched

23:04

that same feature where they are

23:09

queuing up for auto play. So I'm

23:09

wondering if next year, we're

23:13

probably going to see Spotify

23:13

taking up a bigger share of the

23:16

downloads if they start

23:16

automatically playing other

23:19

podcast episodes. Another slide

23:19

that came up that I thought was

23:22

really interesting is audience

23:22

share for these platforms. One

23:27

that really stuck out to me is

23:27

that Amazon Music has jumped up

23:31

126% James said that he was

23:31

thinking it was because of them

23:37

rolling out the ad free versions

23:37

of like wondery, podcasts,

23:42

things like that. I forget what

23:42

the brands are. But if you have

23:45

Amazon Prime, then you get

23:45

access to ad free versions of

23:50

podcasts. And so that could have

23:50

helped their share of audience.

23:54

And I have to say like

23:54

I don't like just existing in

23:58

the podcast sphere, if you want

23:58

to call it that. I don't hear a

24:02

lot about Amazon or wondery. But

24:02

I heard so much like there were

24:07

they were very, very present at

24:07

Podcast Movement evolutions. I

24:11

don't know if it was because the

24:11

proximity to La it seems to be

24:14

where most everybody was coming

24:14

from, from one dri. But there

24:18

were so many people there. So I

24:18

feel like I mean, they're

24:21

showing up like they were

24:21

definitely there to talk about

24:26

all the different things. I

24:26

didn't see anybody from Apple,

24:29

Spotify, there were some people

24:29

from I heart. And I want to say,

24:34

Stitcher baby. I don't know if

24:34

there were or not. But I mean,

24:39

there was definitely if you look

24:39

at all the players that are

24:41

here, they definitely showed up

24:41

to like have some skin in the

24:45

game at Podcast Movement

24:45

evolutions, for sure. So I'm

24:49

curious to see what that looks

24:49

like in the future.

24:53

Yeah, it seems like out

24:53

of all of these players. Now, I

24:55

don't want to take anything away from Apple, because you guys know I'm really coming around to

24:57

what Apple is doing in their

24:59

podcasting app. But it does seem

24:59

like Spotify is out of these

25:03

companies that we're talking

25:03

about. So Apple, Spotify,

25:05

Google, Amazon, like Spotify is

25:05

the one that is most

25:08

aggressively trying to improve

25:08

their listening experience like

25:12

in their app, right. And it's

25:12

not an easy task for them

25:16

because they also have to

25:16

balance music, but it seems like

25:19

that's kind of how they got

25:19

their foothold in the world was

25:22

that they had really kind of the

25:22

best music listening experience

25:25

in an app. Like anybody who uses

25:25

Spotify will tell you the

25:29

curation of their music, their

25:29

suggested playlists that they do

25:31

and all that stuff. That's what sets them apart from everyone else. And so it seems like maybe

25:33

that's just part of the DNA of

25:37

that company is that they really

25:37

want to create these amazing

25:40

listening experiences. And so

25:40

when they started off in

25:42

podcasting, it's been easy to

25:42

criticize them and say like,

25:45

it's not that great compared to

25:45

what others have been doing. But

25:48

their approach seems to be, hey,

25:48

we don't have to knock it out of

25:51

the park day one, but we are

25:51

going to continually improve and

25:54

iterate and make this better and

25:54

better and better. And they're

25:56

doing a lot like we're going to

25:56

talk about some of the new stuff

25:59

that are introducing, you know,

25:59

in a second, but their app is

26:01

continually getting better. Now,

26:01

I don't use the app very often,

26:04

but I am constantly checking it

26:04

like two or three times a year,

26:07

because they're making these big announcements of all these things that are doing to improve

26:09

the listening experience.

26:11

That's kind of the thing

26:11

is like, you know, moving on to

26:14

the actual Podnews Report Card,

26:14

where James surveyed a whole

26:18

bunch of podcasters and

26:18

listeners, that's totally

26:21

reflected in the results from

26:21

this with as far as like the

26:25

overall like experience with the

26:25

apps, the insights of the apps

26:29

provided, how the creators feel

26:29

the apps are working for them,

26:33

too. You can see it reflected in

26:33

this year's survey results that

26:38

Apple and Spotify are scoring a

26:38

lot higher than they did the

26:42

previous year. It's definitely

26:42

known throughout the community

26:46

that they're making really big

26:46

improvements.

26:49

Yeah, to contrast that

26:49

we're not seeing that same level

26:52

of improvement with Amazon,

26:52

Google. I mean, we'll see what

26:56

YouTube is doing. But YouTube

26:56

seems like they're just kind of

26:58

like trying to figure out how to

26:58

fit podcasting into their video

27:02

first solution. So I don't know

27:02

that we're gonna see a lot of

27:04

adoption there. Now, it's not

27:04

that doesn't mean that's totally

27:07

bad. Because anytime one of

27:07

these new platforms that has a

27:11

large user base already comes

27:11

onto the scene, it introduces a

27:14

whole new level, or a whole new

27:14

world to podcasting. Right. So

27:18

there are people who probably just live in YouTube and use it a lot, who don't venture out and

27:20

discover podcasts today. So as

27:23

podcasts, enter the YouTube

27:23

ecosystem, new people are gonna

27:26

find out about podcasts. And I think the same thing probably happened with Amazon music.

27:28

There's a lot of people who use

27:30

Amazon music, and they

27:30

introduced podcasts, and they

27:33

got introduced to podcasting

27:33

through that. But if you really

27:36

want to get people to move from

27:36

one app to another, like if you

27:39

want somebody to stop using

27:39

Apple podcasts as your primary

27:41

listening app and jump over to

27:41

Spotify, or jump over to an

27:44

Amazon music, then you really

27:44

have to provide a compelling

27:47

reason for them to do that. And

27:47

Spotify strategy seems to be, we

27:51

want to create really good

27:51

experiences for people who were

27:54

listening in our app. And it

27:54

seems to be working for them.

27:57

And again, not to say that Apple's not improving because they are their app is getting

27:59

really good. But I just don't

28:02

see that same thing happening.

28:02

And Google podcasts is doing

28:04

nothing. I don't really know

28:04

that Amazon podcast has changed

28:07

much since launch. And they've

28:07

been out for a while now.

28:09

You brought up YouTube.

28:09

And I have to say that video

28:13

podcast is one of the things

28:13

that people kept talking about.

28:16

And it's funny because I think I

28:16

went to almost every session

28:19

about video podcast, and the

28:19

definition of each one was

28:23

different, every single session.

28:23

So I'm curious, Kevin, if you

28:27

had to describe a video podcast,

28:27

what would that look like?

28:32

Oh, boy, I would want to

28:32

understand, like who's asking

28:35

the question, so I could speak

28:35

to them in a way that aligns

28:37

with what they're thinking, like, I'm not really big on-

28:39

I'm a brand new

28:39

podcaster. I've never created an

28:41

audio podcast or video content,

28:41

like, I just want to know,

28:45

should I do a video podcast?

28:45

What would you say to them?

28:50

I would say no, I would

28:50

say no, I wouldn't suggest that

28:52

you do a video podcast. So like

28:52

a true video podcast would be a

28:56

video file that is has an

28:56

associated RSS feed, right. And

29:00

you can do that. You can't do

29:00

that on Buzzsprout. But there

29:03

are ways to do it. It's just not

29:03

very popular, because, well,

29:06

there's a whole lot of work that goes into creating video, first and foremost, hosting that

29:08

yourself or on somebody like

29:12

Buzzsprout, like Libsyn or

29:12

something, it can get expensive,

29:14

because the files are big. And

29:14

so when you're, you're doing

29:17

paid podcast hosting, you're

29:17

going to be paying for all that

29:19

bandwidth and storage. And so

29:19

the easier solution to lower

29:23

barrier to entry solution to

29:23

that has been YouTube. And

29:25

YouTube has come along and said,

29:25

Oh, you can host here for free.

29:28

And we have millions and millions of people who are on our platform looking for video

29:30

content, we've got a really great recommendation engine. So

29:32

if you do something that's

29:34

compelling, we'll try to serve it up to people who might like that kind of stuff, and we'll

29:36

help you grow. And so they've

29:39

dominated that space. Now,

29:39

that's not video podcasting,

29:42

technically. But it pretty much

29:42

has become that because YouTube,

29:46

like owns the online video

29:46

space. And so I would always say

29:49

like, if you really want to get

29:49

into video podcasting, even

29:51

though YouTube technically,

29:51

isn't it, it's a fine solution

29:54

for it. Now, that being said, we

29:54

will see if Spotify has the

29:59

ability to change that. So

29:59

Spotify seems interested in

30:03

competing with YouTube for

30:03

online video stuff, which nobody

30:06

has challenged YouTube in the

30:06

video space for years and years

30:09

and years. So let's see if

30:09

Spotify can actually pull

30:12

something off here and open up

30:12

the video space a little bit.

30:15

Their initial entry into the

30:15

space was just like for Joe

30:18

Rogan and a few other select

30:18

shows. Since then, they've said

30:22

okay, now anybody can push video

30:22

into Spotify, but you have to

30:25

use our publishing tools to do

30:25

that. And now most recently,

30:28

they said we're going to open Add it up so that you can push video and even if you don't use

30:30

our publishing tools, so I'll be

30:33

interested to see, I don't think

30:33

unless you're like someone who

30:36

loves to live on the cutting

30:36

bleeding edge, I don't think

30:39

it's a space that anybody should

30:39

jump into right now, because I

30:42

think you're gonna be doing a lot of work for very little audience. But over the next

30:43

couple of years, if Spotify

30:47

proves out that they can

30:47

actually serve up a reasonable

30:50

sized audience for video,

30:50

podcasting, and it's open,

30:53

meaning that anybody can publish

30:53

from any other platform, then

30:56

maybe my tune will change a

30:56

little bit. I still think for a

31:00

beginning creator who's trying

31:00

to figure out what their voices

31:03

and who their audience is, and all that kind of stuff, I still think video is not a great place

31:05

to start, because the

31:08

equipment's more expensive, the

31:08

editing is harder, the

31:11

requirements that you need in

31:11

terms of computer space and

31:14

bandwidth, and the amount of

31:14

audience that you have available

31:17

to you who have to be actively

31:17

engaged to watch a video versus

31:20

can passively consume your

31:20

content, like when they're

31:22

driving a car or walking a dog

31:22

working out. It's smaller. And

31:26

so it's complicated. And it's a

31:26

long discussion. But I really

31:29

liked the idea of crater

31:29

starting and audio only true

31:32

podcasting, distributing to all

31:32

the platforms, deciding if they

31:35

want to move into video over

31:35

time, and then taking a look at

31:38

the landscape like where it is,

31:38

whenever you happen to step into

31:40

video. If you were doing it

31:40

today, I would say YouTube first

31:43

strategy, but maybe in a couple

31:43

of years from now, maybe it's

31:46

Oh, no, you actually have to

31:46

have your video in both Spotify

31:48

and YouTube. And maybe it also

31:48

includes publishing with an RSS

31:51

feed to anybody.

31:52

I love, like everything

31:52

that you just said about video

31:56

podcast from your perspective,

31:56

because I think that what a lot

32:01

of people forget is that while

32:01

YouTube is great at doing all

32:06

these things, it's taking on the

32:06

burden of the files and the

32:09

storage. And it's such a luxury,

32:09

and they've been doing it for so

32:14

long that we don't take that

32:14

into consideration when we're

32:17

thinking about putting because I

32:17

think about this all the time

32:20

people ask me, Well, why can't I

32:20

just upload my podcast to my

32:23

website, I'm like, well, because

32:23

your website will crash.

32:26

Especially if it's a 4k video,

32:26

like good luck getting anything

32:30

longer than like 15 seconds to

32:30

play on your website without the

32:34

whole thing shutting down

32:34

because it's so heavy. And so I

32:37

think that the way that you're

32:37

thinking about it, in terms of

32:41

video podcasting, on YouTube, on

32:41

Spotify, like whatever places,

32:45

I'm in total agreement that if

32:45

you're just getting started,

32:48

it's not worth the hassle. Like,

32:48

figure out your topic, figure

32:52

out your audience, figure out

32:52

who you really want to speak to

32:54

and your content. And then down

32:54

the road, you can add in video

32:59

and add in those other things.

32:59

But typically, most people

33:03

aren't as comfortable on video

33:03

as they are behind the scenes.

33:07

Like, did you do a lot of

33:07

awkward things with your face?

33:10

Like let's be honest, like

33:10

people do a lot of awkward

33:12

things with their face. And they

33:12

have to sit down and like I I

33:16

learned so much about what not

33:16

to do by recording myself

33:20

watching it and being like, Why

33:20

did I do like, I'm not even

33:22

looking at the camera? What am I

33:22

even looking at? Or what am I

33:26

doing and so, but that came well

33:26

after I had been podcasting for

33:31

a while. So it's too much. It's

33:31

too heavy. To get started with

33:35

video first.

33:40

Speaking of Spotify,

33:40

trying to compete a little bit

33:43

with YouTube, Kevin, what you're

33:43

referencing is their new

33:46

announcements that they've made

33:46

at their stream on event last

33:49

week, they announced a few

33:49

things, the first being that

33:52

some of the features that were

33:52

previously only available to

33:56

anchor podcasters have now been

33:56

made available to any podcaster

34:00

no matter where you host. So

34:00

these features I'm talking about

34:05

are the q&a. That is like a

34:05

question answer, like the

34:10

podcaster can post a question.

34:10

And then in the app, there's

34:12

like a little Reply button for

34:12

the listener to answer that

34:15

question. And kind of give like

34:15

a little bit of feedback, or

34:19

their two cents to maybe talk

34:19

about on a future episode. And

34:22

then the other feature is polls

34:22

where you can actually run a

34:26

poll on an episode and it kind

34:26

of shows up just right on your

34:29

episode description. You'll see

34:29

like a little widget on the

34:34

Spotify app that has these. And

34:34

one of the things that kind of

34:38

struck me was they said to kick

34:38

things off, we added a q&a to

34:45

your most recent episode, if

34:45

your podcast is on Spotify, and

34:48

I went, Oh no. I went to my

34:48

Spotify for podcasters dashboard

34:56

on the dashboard next to like

34:56

the episode audience, stuff like

34:59

that. There's a new tab called

34:59

interact. And when you click on

35:03

that, you can see the q&a and

35:03

the poll for every episode. And

35:09

so I looked and they did in

35:09

fact, post a question on my most

35:13

recent episode, saying what do

35:13

you think about this episode? So

35:18

I clicked on it and I had seven

35:18

responses and my responses-

35:26

Let me ask you, how were

35:26

the quality of those responses.

35:31

To be fair, we have to

35:31

tell the audience, we got to

35:34

read these ahead of time, so we

35:34

know exactly what they are.

35:37

Thank you for setting me

35:37

up on that, because I could

35:40

barely get to this sentence

35:40

without laughing. So the first

35:43

response that I saw just says

35:43

Poop. And the second one says

35:47

iPad, and the third one says

35:47

IDK. And this is the kind of

35:52

thing I kind of expected from

35:52

having a question posted on my

35:56

podcast. So I went ahead and

35:56

disabled this because they have

36:01

automatically enabled these

36:01

questions to be posted for every

36:05

single episode that publishes.

36:05

So next to the little q&a on the

36:10

column, there's a little

36:10

settings cog, and you click that

36:14

and you're able to on toggle

36:14

that, so it doesn't

36:17

automatically, yeah, you can

36:17

turn it off. And it doesn't

36:20

automatically update your

36:20

episodes anymore with these

36:23

questions. So you can delete

36:23

them, you can change the

36:26

questions to be something else,

36:26

you can add the polls from here.

36:29

And so yeah, I definitely turned

36:29

mine off. Because I don't want

36:32

any more comments from my

36:32

listeners.

36:35

One of the things that I

36:35

saw that was nice was that while

36:38

they did give everyone a

36:38

question by default without

36:41

necessarily asking your

36:41

permission to do so, they didn't

36:44

publish the responses by default.

36:45

Yeah, they don't publish

36:45

your responses. So you can go

36:48

into the questions, and you can

36:48

select certain responses to be

36:52

published, so that it will

36:52

actually show on the episode

36:55

page.

36:55

So I guess this is a fine

36:55

way for them to introduce

36:58

something like this. I was

36:58

wondering, Kevin, what's your

37:01

opinion of this? I was trying to

37:01

think through the interview

37:04

myself again, like, what do I

37:04

think about this, and I actually

37:07

don't have a problem with it.

37:07

It's not done in an open way.

37:10

They're not using any sort of

37:10

open specification to be able to

37:13

do this. And so that brushes me

37:13

a little bit wrong, because I

37:16

like the idea of open

37:16

podcasting. So like, why if

37:19

we're going to do polls, if we think polls are good things for podcasts, why can't we do them

37:21

in a way that's open for everybody. But that's not on

37:23

Spotify, that's on the open

37:26

community. So the open community

37:26

hasn't really come up with it

37:28

and propose a solution to that

37:28

yet. And so since that we they

37:31

haven't done that we haven't

37:31

done that, then what's wrong

37:34

with Spotify saying, well, we

37:34

want to do it. And so we're

37:37

gonna do it our own way? And I guess my answer to that is, there's nothing there's nothing

37:38

wrong with them. Like I like the

37:40

idea of having some sort of

37:40

standard spec that the whole

37:43

community builds around and

37:43

supports. And then if any

37:46

company wants to innovate, above

37:46

and beyond that, in their own

37:49

proprietary way, no problem, go

37:49

do that. And so I think that's

37:53

what they've done here. I didn't

37:53

like before how they did it in a

37:56

way that you had to publish

37:56

through their publishing tools

37:58

to use it. But now that they're

37:58

opening it up, I think it's, I

38:00

think it's great. Now the open

38:00

community can respond and say,

38:03

Oh, everyone's loving these

38:03

polls and questions on Spotify,

38:06

we should come up with an open

38:06

way to do that so that others in

38:08

the ecosystem can use it as

38:08

well, fine. But I don't think

38:11

Spotify is necessarily has an

38:11

obligation to participate in the

38:13

open community in terms of like

38:13

bringing their ideas and

38:16

innovations, their first they

38:16

can bring into their app first,

38:18

and then open community can

38:18

respond. So if anyone was

38:21

wondering, to answer my own

38:21

question, I think I'm okay with

38:23

this implementation. And I think

38:23

I'm really okay with the way

38:26

that Spotify is trying to do it

38:26

too. Like, maybe they blundered

38:29

a little bit by saying, Oh, we're gonna give everyone a default question. But I could

38:31

see their their logic and

38:35

reasoning and saying, Well, we

38:35

won't publish any of the

38:37

answers, we'll just let the

38:37

podcaster see them. And then

38:40

they can decide if they want to

38:40

publish them or not. And so I'd

38:43

say that's totally fine. Like,

38:43

maybe not maybe like Jordans,

38:47

like, I'd really didn't like that you guys did that to my podcasts, I know, you have a

38:49

large percentage of your

38:51

audience listening there. But at

38:51

the same time, like, I think

38:54

that kind of trying to walk that

38:54

line between, like, we want to

38:57

push new features, and we want

38:57

to show everyone how they can

38:59

work and give him an opportunity

38:59

to test them instead of waiting

39:02

around and hoping people

39:02

discover them. And at the same

39:05

time, we're not going to publish

39:05

their answers. So we kind of

39:07

give you the control.

39:08

Well, I think to like

39:08

if you think about because I

39:11

love I love this feature. So

39:11

much. Like I know Jordan has

39:14

mixed feelings about it. And of

39:14

course, there's gonna be people

39:17

that put poop on every single

39:17

episode they ever listened to.

39:20

That's just kind of what

39:20

happens. But I love marketing,

39:24

and I specifically love market

39:24

research. And this is a way for

39:27

people to get that immediate

39:27

feedback, because people are

39:30

always asking me, How can I

39:30

understand you know, if my

39:33

episodes any good? And I'm like,

39:33

well, first and foremost, are

39:36

you getting any downloads,

39:36

number one, that's that's like

39:38

the very first, you know, thing

39:38

that you need to take into

39:41

consideration. But having this

39:41

immediate feedback, whether it's

39:44

a star rating, or actual, like

39:44

people giving you that like,

39:49

text based message back to you

39:49

that says, This was great, or I

39:52

didn't love this, or like, all

39:52

of it is really just data, it's

39:57

just sometimes can be hurtful,

39:57

right? Let's just throw that out

40:01

there. Like, you could get stuff

40:01

that's like, Oh, this is

40:03

terrible. I hated this and maybe

40:03

even come at you with like, very

40:07

specific reasons why they don't

40:07

like it and you're like, okay,

40:09

like, we're gonna delete this,

40:09

like, no one's ever gonna see

40:12

that. But I love the idea of

40:12

having that feedback, but also

40:17

having the option on what you

40:17

want to publish what you want to

40:20

put on your show. And it kind of

40:20

helps you build that character

40:25

around what you want your

40:25

podcast to represent. And it

40:28

could be Hang on this. So if you

40:28

all have the information or the

40:31

data, but I think that Spotify

40:31

skews younger, and people that

40:36

have grown up or have had Amazon

40:36

around their entire adult lives

40:41

in their consuming behavior

40:41

habits, like everybody's just

40:44

used to reviewing things like,

40:44

Hey, I listen to this thing, I

40:47

bought this thing, and I

40:47

reviewed it, or people in like,

40:50

kind of the opposite end of the

40:50

spectrum, they're used to

40:53

reading reviews before they

40:53

decide, is this worth my time?

40:58

So this is just another way for

40:58

people to decide, you know,

41:02

episode by episode, like, oh,

41:02

this was a fantastic one, I can

41:05

see from all these comments, I

41:05

should go ahead. Like it's worth

41:08

30 minutes of my time or an hour

41:08

of my time, however long it is.

41:12

So I'm all for it. I just I

41:12

think that there's a way that

41:15

you can do it to be inclusive

41:15

with the Creator on what they

41:20

want to have on their show.

41:21

You know, it's

41:21

interesting, because in the last

41:23

episode, we actually had talked

41:23

about how lonely podcasting can

41:28

feel. It can just feel like

41:28

you're talking into a void

41:31

sometimes. And so I actually

41:31

think that this is a really good

41:34

fix for that having this sort of

41:34

like interactivity in app, it's

41:39

really easy for people to use.

41:39

It's just like, right there. And

41:43

I think like a good use case for

41:43

this for a podcast like mine

41:48

would not be so much like, what

41:48

did you think? Because like, I

41:51

actually don't really care

41:51

personally what people think.

41:53

But what I do care about is what

41:53

do you want to hear in the

41:57

future? Do you have story

41:57

suggestions? Do you have tips

42:01

for something? Like what's a big

42:01

pet peeve that you have, and

42:05

we'll share it on the next

42:05

episode? Like this is definitely

42:08

a tool that can be used for

42:08

something like that, I think.

42:11

Yeah. And maybe the polls

42:11

would work better for a podcast

42:14

like yours, where you could

42:14

select maybe four or five

42:17

stories that you're thinking

42:17

about doing upcoming and then

42:19

let them choose instead of like,

42:19

open ended questions where they

42:22

can write things that are just

42:22

completely random.

42:24

Yeah, yeah. And I

42:24

definitely use polls all the

42:26

time. On my podcast, I'll run

42:26

them on Instagram, or on my

42:30

Patreon, or something like that.

42:30

And so this is another place

42:34

where I can do that and say,

42:34

like, hey, like for our big

42:36

spring episode, what do you

42:36

want? Yeah, that's definitely

42:39

way to do it in a controlled

42:39

environment.

42:41

I was gonna say, I'm

42:41

gonna go check my podcast out

42:44

after this and be like, Oh, do I

42:44

have any poop comments on mine

42:47

or other other colorful things

42:47

that people have said?

42:51

Well, I will say that we

42:51

think, this hasn't been

42:54

confirmed, but we think that

42:54

this is only available for

42:56

people who have claimed their

42:56

podcast on Spotify. So we have a

42:59

couple of different shows, some

42:59

are claimed on Spotify, and some

43:02

aren't. And as far as we can

43:02

tell, like the questions, the

43:05

default questions that they push

43:05

for everyone's podcasts, we're

43:07

only showing up on podcasts that

43:07

we know that there's like a

43:10

claimed Spotify account behind

43:10

it. And so if you're looking at

43:14

your podcast, and Spotify and you don't see that question, that's maybe because you haven't

43:16

set up your Spotify account and linked your podcast to it yet.

43:18

So you can do that. And then you

43:20

can check out polls and

43:20

questions and see a little bit

43:23

more insights into activity like

43:23

demographics and stuff that

43:27

people who are listening to your

43:27

podcasts on Spotify, so it's

43:29

worth doing.

43:30

So a couple of the other

43:30

things that they announced

43:32

Spotify said to stay tuned for

43:32

an update on the video

43:35

podcasting, so I don't, I don't

43:35

think that they have rolled out

43:39

video podcasting for podcasts

43:39

not hosted on their platform,

43:43

but I think that it might be in

43:43

the works down the line. In

43:47

addition to that they have a new

43:47

podcast feed. And what this is,

43:51

is on the homepage of the app,

43:51

if you click the little podcasts

43:55

and shows they have what they

43:55

call a machine learning selected

44:01

clip playing for podcasts that

44:01

they think that you might be

44:04

interested in. It's

44:05

This is just them putting

44:05

a bunch of buzzwords around

44:08

listen, you ripped off the

44:08

TikTok UI, it's TikTok for

44:11

podcasts, or TikTok for music.

44:11

That's all it is. Yeah, they got

44:14

to put like It's like blockchain

44:14

machine learning AI Virtual

44:18

Reality scroll. TikTok.

44:21

I think they were trying

44:21

to avoid the term AI because

44:24

it's being used so heavily right

44:24

now. So I but I think the

44:27

machine learning aspect of it is

44:27

actually more geared toward what

44:32

clips they choose, because they

44:32

said that it selects clips that

44:37

you would find the most

44:37

interesting from the podcast. So

44:41

I don't know if it's like going

44:41

through it. I think they might

44:44

be transcribing the episodes

44:44

though, because my podcast, I do

44:47

not have it transcribed. And I

44:47

noticed that it was actually

44:51

playing the transcription while

44:51

my audiogram was playing. But

44:55

yeah, it's very much like

44:55

TikTok. It actually reminds me a

44:58

little bit more of Instagram. So

44:58

like you scroll up and there's

45:02

just like a block of a podcast

45:02

and it has the cover art and it

45:05

has like an audio Graham playing

45:05

and you have the ability to

45:09

follow that podcast right there.

45:09

When the clips done playing, you

45:11

can click to continue listening

45:11

to it. And they also have videos

45:17

showing up. So if you have a

45:17

video podcast on Spotify, then

45:21

you can also have a clip of the

45:21

video playing. It's really funny

45:25

though, because they said that

45:25

there are seven The 1000 video

45:30

podcasts on Spotify. And I

45:30

scrolled for so long yesterday

45:34

and I did not get a single video

45:34

podcast pulling up on that feed.

45:39

Yeah, I had a similar

45:39

experience. I did see one video

45:41

podcast, but it was Joe Rogan

45:41

now and we all know he's been

45:45

doing video on Spotify forever,

45:45

like since he came over. So that

45:48

wasn't shocker.

45:49

I'm scrolling so long,

45:49

and I don't see anything. I told

45:52

them. I was like, Okay, let me

45:52

let me see if I get this feature

45:54

on here. I updated my app. I

45:54

don't have a premium account.

45:58

That's why I was like, well,

45:58

maybe I don't have it. No, I

46:00

just maybe only like people have

46:00

or maybe I'm the only person in

46:04

the world that doesn't have it.

46:04

I don't know. But it's not

46:06

working for me, so I can't even

46:06

see it and test it.

46:08

I was surprised, I didn't

46:08

know how to find it. Jordan

46:10

walked me through how to find it. And then once I did what she said it did work for me. So it

46:12

was go to your home screen. And then you have to, have at the

46:13

top, I think it's called

46:20

podcasts and shows ,which I

46:20

might be the only person in the

46:23

world. He found that interesting

46:23

that it's podcasts and shows

46:26

instead of just podcast. But it

46:26

was almost like a nod to me, I

46:29

took that as a personal nod to

46:29

Kevin, thank you that they

46:32

recognize that all of the

46:32

content they have in there is

46:34

not a podcast that they're like,

46:34

technically, it's not a podcast.

46:37

But you know, like the Joe Rogan

46:37

show is not a podcast right now

46:40

it's a show. So I really

46:40

appreciate it that Spotify is

46:43

trying to win me over.

46:44

Is it working?

46:45

They're trying. It's a slow burn.

46:48

Maybe I will say this,

46:48

I've been a fan of anybody who

46:54

tries to introduce podcasts to

46:54

more people. And like I like

46:58

anytime an app comes out and

46:58

says hey, we're gonna try to get

47:01

more podcasters discovered,

47:01

like, I think this is great. I

47:03

don't necessarily think that

47:03

there's a huge discoverability

47:05

problem in podcasting. But if if

47:05

somebody wants to take on

47:09

marketing on behalf of

47:09

podcasters, like I'm in your

47:11

corner cheering you on. And so I

47:11

really like that they're

47:14

exploring these ideas. What I

47:14

would really like to do though,

47:17

is I would like for this just to

47:17

auto scroll for me. So this

47:21

feels like we've been talking

47:21

about very much like Instagram

47:23

stories or rails, they call them

47:23

or tick tock experience where I

47:27

have to sit there and look at my

47:27

phone and scroll these things.

47:30

So every minute, you know, the

47:30

clip I'm watching is over. And

47:33

then I've got to swipe up to see

47:33

the next one, I want to just

47:35

turn this thing on and put it in

47:35

my pocket, or just drive my car.

47:38

And I'm just basically it's like

47:38

putting your, you know, your old

47:41

school car stereo into scan

47:41

mode, you know, where it's

47:44

scanning stations for a song

47:44

that you'd like. And then as

47:46

soon as you hear a song you'd like you'd like hit the button, it stops and you'd listen that

47:48

song. I want to put Spotify in

47:51

scan mode for podcasts where

47:51

it's just scanning through

47:54

podcasts, and then all of a

47:54

sudden I hear something that's

47:56

interesting, then I'll pull my

47:56

phone out of my pocket, tap a

47:59

button and listen that whole

47:59

episode. What do you guys think?

48:02

Good idea? Bad idea?

48:03

Yeah, I think that's a great idea.

48:04

I keep thinking about

48:04

what you said with you know,

48:07

discoverability and having

48:07

marketing tools for podcasters.

48:10

I think that anything that can

48:10

help people have their shows

48:14

discovered organically without

48:14

having a PhD in SEO and

48:19

keywords. And you know, titling

48:19

things sit like such a specific

48:23

way that it loses all kind of

48:23

meat of the episode, you're

48:26

like, What am I I don't even

48:26

know what I'm listening to.

48:28

Because somebody's just keyword

48:28

stuffed all these things that

48:31

they learned from a video they

48:31

watched from 10 years ago,

48:33

that's not even relevant

48:33

anymore, then I'm, like I'm all

48:36

about it. I'm all about the

48:36

tools that help podcasters just

48:39

make it easier, because that is

48:39

the number one thing that I hear

48:42

from people is it's so awkward

48:42

to talk about my show, it feels

48:46

braggy or it feels like I'm just

48:46

talking about myself. And so

48:51

helping podcasters feel more

48:51

comfortable saying, Hey, you

48:55

could just go to your Spotify

48:55

app, and you know, start liking

48:58

podcasts that are similar to

48:58

this category. And you know, I

49:02

hope that my podcast shows up.

49:02

But you'll also find other shows

49:06

that are out there that we would

49:06

also be interested in.

49:09

That's good. There is

49:09

this tag in the podcast

49:12

namespace called soundbite. And

49:12

there are a lot of apps that

49:14

have kind of built a real a lot

49:14

of really great features around

49:16

the sound bite tag. It would be

49:16

like doing backflips if Spotify

49:20

is like, hey, we develop this

49:20

new feature, this new scrolling

49:22

thing that's similar to tick

49:22

tock but totally different than

49:25

tick tock, right. And it

49:25

introduces podcasts to people.

49:29

And that's a great thing for

49:29

podcasters. I would love it if

49:31

they would look in your RSS feed

49:31

and say, Oh, if there's a

49:34

soundbite tag associated with an

49:34

episode, then that's what we'll

49:37

use as kind of your highlight

49:37

for your podcast. Because then

49:40

it gives the podcaster some

49:40

level of control of, hey, if

49:43

you're going to play a clip from

49:43

this episode for somebody, and

49:46

it's only going to be 30 seconds

49:46

or a minute, here's what the one

49:48

that I would suggest you use

49:48

that I would like you to use as

49:51

the creator. And then if there's

49:51

not that that tag doesn't exist

49:54

Spotify, use your machine AI to

49:54

do whatever you want. Pick

49:58

whichever one you think is best.

49:58

But if that tag is present, like

50:00

why not let the podcast creator

50:00

have some control over this a 45

50:04

minute episode, if you're only

50:04

going to play somebody 30

50:06

seconds of it, you're only going

50:06

to pay 45 seconds of it. This is

50:09

what I would suggest you use or

50:09

I would prefer you use than why

50:12

not use that tag.

50:13

And I've already

50:13

created so many in Buzzsprout

50:16

that you can just go in and grab

50:16

them. They're already- they live

50:21

in there already. Like please go

50:21

grab them and just take them

50:24

with your API and show them to

50:24

whoever you want to because I've

50:27

already taken the time to create

50:27

the thing and put it there.

50:30

Right you've already gone

50:30

through your episode and tagged

50:33

like this episode at this

50:33

timestamp for 45 seconds or 30

50:36

seconds is the highlight reel

50:36

for the episode and like we

50:39

think about these things as

50:39

creators right like it's like I

50:41

want to tease the episode but I

50:41

don't want to like give it away

50:44

like I don't want to. Oh this

50:44

it's a comedy podcast and you

50:47

like totally botched my joke or

50:47

you just came in with my best

50:50

joke, like I want to give a

50:50

teaser joke not the best one,

50:52

whatever. But that should be in

50:52

control the creator, not

50:54

necessarily some machine that is

50:54

smart at Spotify smart was an

50:58

air quotes there. Jordan I was listening to the

51:05

Podnews Weekly Review and they

51:09

do Boostagram Corner.

51:10

Uh huh.

51:11

I was wondering what was going through your head while they played that booster Graham

51:12

corner intro? Were you thinking,

51:15

You guys don't know this, but your audience hates it?

51:22

No, I wasn't thinking

51:22

that. It was really funny

51:26

though, because one of the

51:26

Boostagrams that they got that

51:29

they asked me to read was from

51:29

Genebean and I was like, Oh, I

51:32

know this guy. So it felt very,

51:32

I felt very at home, really.

51:39

Very comfortable.

51:41

Okay, first boost this

51:41

week comes from Dave Jones. He

51:45

said Uga an example of the

51:45

amazing creativity of the

51:48

University of Georgia fans. And

51:48

you know what I'm I'm a gator

51:51

fan myself. And we kind of have

51:51

a bit of a rivalry with Georgia.

51:54

So I will receive that comment

51:54

as complete sarcasm. Personally,

51:58

Georgia fans are not creative at

51:58

all. And I'll get is a silly

52:01

name for a mascot. I totally

52:01

agree. And Alban is not here to

52:04

defend it. So we're gonna go

52:04

with that. Thanks, Dave. Go

52:06

Gators! Gator Nation.

52:07

All right, we have at

52:07

Mere Mortals Podcast. Been a

52:12

while since I heard an update of

52:12

what you're working on in terms

52:15

of P 2.0 tags. Is there any LIT

52:15

or value tags coming? Please and

52:20

thank you. Kevin?

52:23

I'll just say I don't

52:23

know anything about that.

52:28

So value tags you can do

52:28

today on the podcast level, you

52:31

can't do them on an individual

52:31

episode level or splits. But if

52:33

you don't have now, like if you

52:33

don't know, if your podcast is

52:36

on Buzzsprout, and you don't have value for value enabled, and you want it, you just drop

52:38

an email to our support team. And they will walk you through

52:40

that process. We don't have a UI

52:42

for it, but is fully supported

52:42

at the episode level and splits.

52:46

It's something that we continue

52:46

to discuss and figure out if

52:49

that's something that enough

52:49

people need for us to actually

52:51

build a UI around or how we're

52:51

going to support it. And LIT is

52:53

in that same boat. It's more

52:53

like we love the technology. But

52:57

we have to prioritize and build

52:57

things that a lot of people are

53:00

going to use. And so like just

53:00

this week, like we're rolling

53:03

out the text tag, which isn't

53:03

super exciting, but it's another

53:05

Podcasting 2.0 tag that we're

53:05

rolling out or podcast namespace

53:08

tag that we're rolling out. So

53:08

it stuff's always on our

53:11

priority list. And it's just

53:11

kind of us shuffling around what

53:14

the majority of people are

53:14

asking for and looking for. So I

53:17

love it. Like it's cool, and

53:17

it's fun. But there are so few

53:20

podcasters out there that can

53:20

actually take advantage of it.

53:22

So if you don't know what it is,

53:22

it sounds for live item tag. And

53:25

it's like if you want to do a

53:25

live podcast. And so why would

53:28

you ever want to do a live podcast? Well, it gives you an opportunity to interact with

53:30

live audience. So if you have

53:32

like a chat room going, or I

53:32

don't know how well it's maybe

53:36

some you figure out some way for

53:36

people to like hop into your

53:39

Skype call your zoom call or

53:39

whatever. And you can interact-

53:41

It's like Clubhouse, like that's what I keep thinking.

53:43

Yeah, like a Clubhouse kind of thing. Right. So you could do live podcast, the

53:45

reason to do it would be to

53:47

interact with your audience. And

53:47

so I keep coming back to if

53:51

we're going to support the live

53:51

item tag. How can we do in such

53:54

a way that we also give people

53:54

the tools to be able to interact

53:56

live with their audience. And so

53:56

that's where our thinking is on

53:59

that. But yeah, we're staying up

53:59

to date and always looking at

54:02

all the new innovations that are

54:02

happening around the podcast

54:04

namespace.

54:05

And then Krystal, do you

54:05

want to read Genebean's since I

54:08

got to read Genebean's on Podnews Live?

54:10

Yes. Okay. So Genebean

54:10

says, I was really glad to hear

54:14

y'all say that you are

54:14

investigating how to facilitate

54:17

getting our episodes into

54:17

YouTube. I don't have the time

54:20

or energy right now to make a

54:20

video version of volunteer

54:23

technologist. But I'm interested

54:23

in expanding my reach to the

54:27

audience. The hesitations I have

54:27

are pretty much what you all

54:31

said, stats would only be there.

54:31

It's us only and only in YouTube

54:36

music. Oh my gosh, I have so

54:36

many thoughts on this too. So

54:41

you know, we're talking about

54:41

video podcasts and what that

54:45

looks like and what that really

54:45

is. And when I think back to all

54:49

the different experiences I've

54:49

had, because I create on audio

54:53

only for a podcast, and YouTube

54:53

video only. And mine have never

54:58

been the same. It's never been

54:58

having video and then stripping

55:01

the audio. And that's my

55:01

podcast. I've never done that

55:04

from the beginning. But I think

55:04

that having your content in some

55:08

way on YouTube, even if it's

55:08

just YouTube shorts, could

55:13

actually be a great way for you

55:13

to get discovered by another

55:16

audience on YouTube and it would

55:16

be less work than having all the

55:21

editing done for videos or

55:21

making sure everything looks

55:24

great or doing something in

55:24

Canva or putting B roll on like

55:27

there's just like Kevin said

55:27

earlier, there's a lot of

55:30

complexities that come into

55:30

video. And because it's not

55:33

something that is, you know,

55:33

supported by every single

55:37

podcasting app, whether it's

55:37

your host site, or it's the

55:41

actual app that you're playing

55:41

in, we're just we're not there

55:44

yet. But I do think that having

55:44

a presence on YouTube is a way

55:49

for you to gain organic traffic

55:49

and have someone discover your

55:53

podcast, and then have them move

55:53

over to a podcast player that

55:57

they already know and love, like

55:57

Apple, Spotify, or wherever

56:01

they're listening.

56:02

Yeah, I totally agree.

56:02

And I think YouTube is great for

56:06

exactly what you said. But I

56:06

would also say like other social

56:09

channels can also work in that

56:09

same way. So if you happen to be

56:12

a big fan of YouTube, and you

56:12

engage with it there and you

56:14

like, then maybe that's the

56:14

place for you. But if that place

56:17

for you is tick tock or

56:17

Instagram or Facebook or Twitter

56:20

or Mastodon, or whatever, like

56:20

any of those channels, can you

56:23

can invest in them the same way

56:23

the pitfall might be like

56:25

spreading yourself too thin and

56:25

trying to do all of them. And so

56:28

if you love YouTube, and you

56:28

love Instagram, like go for

56:30

those two, or if you're only in

56:30

one, just like go for one, but

56:33

don't try to be everywhere, at

56:33

least initially. Like that's too

56:36

much for any one person.

56:37

We also have a tweet

56:37

from Sarah Rossett. She said, I

56:41

agree podcasting can feel

56:41

lonely. But I think it's

56:43

probably similar to the world of

56:43

books where readers of different

56:47

genres have different behaviors.

56:47

So she said that the best ways

56:51

we found to connect with our

56:51

podcast audience are through

56:54

surveys, meetups for meals or

56:54

drinks at writing conferences

56:57

announced on the podcast before

56:57

the event and Buzzsprout

57:00

subscriptions. I totally agree

57:00

with this, Sara, these are

57:03

absolutely the best ways that

57:03

I've also found to connect with

57:07

the audience, especially like I

57:07

preach surveys all the time. I

57:11

love surveys so much. But

57:11

meetups are such a huge deal to

57:15

especially if you live in a big

57:15

city where maybe your listeners

57:18

are close by you can do that.

57:20

Yeah, it's so powerful

57:20

when you get in person with

57:23

people. I mean, like I said,

57:23

Jordan and I were just in person

57:26

together. And we haven't seen

57:26

each other in person for a year

57:29

and a half. And it's just it's

57:29

there's something so special.

57:32

And to know that you share this

57:32

collective will in our case,

57:36

it's this collective nerdiness

57:36

bond about podcasting. Like we

57:39

love it so much. And we can just

57:39

geek out and talk about it. So

57:43

being in the presence of, you

57:43

know, people that have that

57:46

shared experience or that shared

57:46

interest, it just gives you this

57:50

energy that you can't replicate

57:50

in a digital space. So

57:54

definitely anytime you can get

57:54

in person with people, it just

57:57

it makes it a lot of fun.

57:58

I love this idea for like

57:58

niche podcasts, like a Disney

58:00

That's a great thought. Sharing

58:00

that same sentiment we have

58:01

podcast or something. You

58:01

probably go to Disney all the

58:04

time. And a lot of people listen

58:04

to your podcast probably go to

58:06

Disney all the time. So maybe

58:06

people are already doing this.

58:09

But if not like Why aren't you

58:09

saying hey, when I go to Disney,

58:11

I'm going to have lunch at this

58:11

restaurant from 12 to one, and I

58:14

would love to meet you. And like

58:14

here's what I'll be wearing. And

58:16

this is the right time to

58:16

approach me and say hi and get a

58:18

picture and let me talk to you

58:18

about my podcast. So you're like

58:20

inviting your audience to interact with you that way. There's a lot of people who do

58:22

sports podcasts, I might be going to this game and watching

58:24

this and here's my tickets are

58:27

in this section, or I'm gonna

58:27

stand outside this hotdog stand

58:29

outside the venue for an hour

58:29

after the game. And if you want

58:32

to talk, I'd love to meet you

58:32

there. Like maybe you don't live

58:34

in a big town. But maybe you go

58:34

places where you might bump into

58:37

podcasters I do a travel

58:37

podcast, I'm doing this trip at

58:40

this time with my family and

58:40

it's a family trip. But I'm

58:43

gonna go to this attraction and

58:43

I'll be there at this time for

58:46

an hour. If you guys want to

58:46

plan a trip. That's a great

58:48

place to go. And I'd love to bump into a meet you there. Whatever like like make it your

58:50

own, figure out how it could

58:52

work for your podcast for us.

58:52

Since we talked about

58:54

podcasting. We always say we're

58:54

going to these conferences and

58:57

if you're there we'd love to

58:57

talk with you. But it might be

58:59

able to apply to lots of

58:59

different things. So just think

59:02

about that. Maybe you can use it. David John Clark saying really

59:07

connects with your thoughts on a

59:10

lack of listener engagement with

59:10

podcasts. Funny, I was out

59:13

hiking when you talked about not

59:13

being able to interact while on

59:15

the go. I tried to remember for

59:15

later such as now to interact.

59:19

And then he said I tried to rate

59:19

and review shows and individual

59:22

episodes via pod chaser. I liken

59:22

it to the IMDB of podcasts,

59:26

which podcasts are now on IMDb

59:26

too, much easier than logging

59:30

into individual platforms such

59:30

as Apple or Spotify. I feel

59:33

though many podcasters don't see

59:33

the pod chaser reviews yet. I

59:37

agree. I think a lot of people

59:37

miss that too.

59:39

Jordan might see them but she

59:39

just hates reviews. So she won't

59:41

read them.

59:42

Yeah. I don't see reviews.

59:45

I think it's, well, I

59:45

think it's great when you can

59:48

have so if you're in Jordan's

59:48

case where you you don't like to

59:52

look at that, like have someone

59:52

that you love and trust and that

59:56

loves you and is supportive of

59:56

your journey to look over those

1:00:00

for you and maybe pull out the

1:00:00

ones that you know would be a

1:00:03

confidence boost, like on a hard

1:00:03

day. Because I mean, we've all

1:00:07

been podcasting for a long time.

1:00:07

We know that sometimes it just

1:00:10

sucks like maybe you don't have

1:00:10

the energy to record or you're

1:00:13

really you have 1000 Other

1:00:13

things personally going on in

1:00:16

your life or professionally and

1:00:16

you're like I just don't feel

1:00:19

like recording today. But having

1:00:19

one of those that you can pull

1:00:22

up and it's that confidence

1:00:22

boost that I know I need as a

1:00:26

podcaster when somebody says

1:00:26

this one episode like really

1:00:30

helped me get through a hard

1:00:30

time or going back to, you know,

1:00:33

after my podcast movement, talk

1:00:33

somebody, you know, DM me on

1:00:36

Instagram and said Your talk was

1:00:36

exactly what I needed to hear

1:00:39

today. And that will get me

1:00:39

through those times when it's a

1:00:43

little bit harder. So I love

1:00:43

reviews, find someone that can

1:00:47

read them for you. If you're

1:00:47

like Jordan, who doesn't want to

1:00:49

see him and then these are your

1:00:49

top three best reviews, look at

1:00:52

these and remind yourself,

1:00:52

you're on the right track.

1:00:54

You know, what's so

1:00:54

funny is that I actually also

1:00:58

implement the review buddy

1:00:58

system. So my husband was always

1:01:01

the one that would like, look at

1:01:01

the reviews. And then if I had a

1:01:04

really good one, he'd screenshot

1:01:04

it, send it to me, right? I

1:01:06

think I need to fire him because

1:01:06

he slacked off a little bit on

1:01:11

the gatekeeping of the bad

1:01:11

reviews. So now it's like he'll

1:01:14

walk by the office and be like,

1:01:14

do you see that jerk that left

1:01:17

you one star? I'm just like, No,

1:01:17

no, no, no, don't tell me. He's

1:01:22

fired. Just completely forgot

1:01:22

why he was hired for that in the

1:01:26

first place.

1:01:27

Fired. He's fired.

1:01:30

All right. Well, I think

1:01:30

that's the show. So thank you

1:01:33

for listening and keep podcasting.

1:01:34

Got my kids. I threw

1:01:34

them outside. They're playing

1:01:41

basketball right now on all my

1:01:41

only charge to them was Don't

1:01:44

scream outside. Like why do we

1:01:44

have to repeat like Don't

1:01:48

scream. Why is that a thing?

1:01:48

They're 13, 10, and 7.

1:01:53

Does it work?

1:01:53

No, they're screaming outside. Still.

1:01:55

I heard a couple times

1:01:55

while you're recording. Like,

1:01:58

BLAAAAH!

1:01:59

I was like, I need a I

1:01:59

need a mute it then I was like

1:02:02

Jordan, she can work her magic

1:02:02

editing and mute my whole track.

1:02:07

Any of your kids have

1:02:07

like the friend that is the low?

1:02:11

Yes, yes. Yes. And you know,

1:02:11

when this kid is coming over

1:02:14

your house, and you're just

1:02:14

like, I can take it or I can't

1:02:17

today. And I just my prayer is

1:02:17

that, like, my kid isn't the

1:02:21

loud kid for somebody else.

1:02:23

Well, how many kids do

1:02:23

you have again, Kevin?

1:02:25

I have three

1:02:25

You have three. Okay, that's what I was saying. So I have three, too, and there's

1:02:27

always one. I feel like there's

1:02:29

one in the bunch that I'm like,

1:02:29

when he goes over to somebody

1:02:32

else's house. I'm pretty sure

1:02:32

that he's taking all the snacks

1:02:37

screaming very loudly and

1:02:37

hopefully using his manners but

1:02:42

not 100% sure. And so it's kind

1:02:42

of like that gentle reminder

1:02:46

when they're out the door. Like,

1:02:46

just be a decent human, please.

1:02:49

Thank you. Like

1:02:52

That's my youngest, too.

1:02:52

She's, before we went to Podcast

1:02:56

Movement, I told my mom I was

1:02:56

like, okay, she will eat all the

1:02:59

snacks like you have to limit

1:02:59

her. She will. We just stocked

1:03:03

up the pantry. Everything

1:03:03

stocked is ready to go. But do

1:03:06

not let her eat snacks all day.

1:03:06

And I came back and I don't have

1:03:10

any chips left. So I think she

1:03:10

went through like three bags of

1:03:12

chips.

1:03:15

No, I've heard of people that put like those latches at the top of their

1:03:17

pantry because they're the kids

1:03:21

can't reach it. I'm like, Oh my

1:03:21

gosh, this is genius. This is so

1:03:24

smart.

1:03:26

Kids will get through

1:03:26

that really quick. Don't, if you

1:03:32

can prevent your kids from

1:03:32

eating snacks by just putting a

1:03:34

latch up high like, there's

1:03:34

something off. Like they're

1:03:37

getting, they're getting snacks a different way that you don't know about.

1:03:40

Go look under their bed

1:03:40

and you're like, What is this?

1:03:43

They have a stockpile

1:03:43

somewhere. Kids are, they don't

1:03:46

give up that easily.

1:03:47

Oh my gosh, I found out

1:03:47

that my daughter's stockpile is

1:03:50

in my room.

1:03:52

She hides it in your room?

1:03:53

It's in my room. She's

1:03:53

so good that she hid the food in

1:03:58

my room. And I didn't find it

1:03:58

until later I foun, oh my gosh,

1:04:02

I moved I have this like rolling

1:04:02

hamper thing. And it has like

1:04:06

removable bags. So I never moved

1:04:06

the hamper itself, which she

1:04:10

must have known. And so I moved

1:04:10

it out when I was vacuuming and

1:04:15

I found a banana. A sucker.

1:04:21

Kind of random.

1:04:22

And the banana was like

1:04:22

black and hard and I was just

1:04:25

like, how long has this been here? No!

1:04:28

Petrified banana.

1:04:29

Oh my gosh, I was so mad

1:04:29

when I found this like,

1:04:33

disgusting banana in my bedroom.

1:04:33

I was just like, you've got to

1:04:37

be kidding me. Little turd.

1:04:39

Oh my gosh, that's great.

1:04:41

All right. Well, let me

1:04:41

tell you. I hesitate. Because

1:04:43

this is another sports story.

1:04:43

Jordan and I apologize crystal

1:04:46

you're in sports at all?

1:04:47

It depends. Yes, maybe.

1:04:47

Go for it.

1:04:50

I don't think Jordan gets

1:04:50

this story, because I posted it

1:04:52

to our like, company Basecamp

1:04:52

thing and she didn't she didn't

1:04:54

give me a boost. Everyone else

1:04:54

give me a boost. This last

1:04:58

weekend, our kids had their swim

1:04:58

meet. They go to swim meets all

1:05:01

the time. Well, this was a pretty big meet in the state of Florida and Katie Ledecky, who's

1:05:02

like the greatest women's

1:05:06

swimmer of all time, I shouldn't even say women's, she's like she's the greatest distance

1:05:08

swimmer of all time doesn't

1:05:10

matter what your gender is.

1:05:10

She's amazing. She was swimming

1:05:13

there. And she was swimming the

1:05:13

mile, which that's a normal

1:05:16

event for her and so everyone's like, Oh, it's great. Like we're gonna get to see her swim. But

1:05:18

what we did not expect was that

1:05:22

she set a new American record

1:05:22

for the mile which was like it

1:05:26

really is a world record I guess

1:05:26

call it American record because

1:05:29

only the US swims the mile. It's

1:05:29

like only a US event. But I got

1:05:33

to see a person swim the fastest

1:05:33

mile swim in the women's

1:05:37

division, like, in real time,

1:05:37

like watching the GOAT swim.

1:05:41

Amazing. Absolutely amazing. I

1:05:41

was crazy, like nobody expects.

1:05:46

And so she jumps in, they go off

1:05:46

and like in the first 50 She has

1:05:50

already like a half a body

1:05:50

length the head of the next

1:05:52

closest person. By halfway

1:05:52

through the race. She'd already

1:05:54

lapped everybody. And then by

1:05:54

like three quarters of the way

1:05:57

through the race, everyone else is slowing down. And she's going faster. And so she's like,

1:05:59

already lapped everybody. So

1:06:01

she's like more than 100 yards

1:06:01

ahead of the next closest

1:06:04

person. Well, and people are

1:06:04

watching the times, and we're

1:06:08

all like she's swimming this

1:06:08

really fast and like she always

1:06:10

seems really fast. So we're not

1:06:10

sure like what's going to happen

1:06:13

and she starts coming down that

1:06:13

last 25 And she's like two

1:06:16

seconds ahead of the world

1:06:16

record time and she touches the

1:06:19

wall. I'm not like as into

1:06:19

swimming as everyone else who's

1:06:21

there because it's just my kids.

1:06:21

Like I was never a swimmer. But

1:06:24

she touches the wall the place

1:06:24

erupts like she's you know,

1:06:28

she's done this seven times. Now

1:06:28

she's beat her time seven times.

1:06:31

But she's excited. Everyone's

1:06:31

going crazy. Like no one

1:06:33

expected the small little meet

1:06:33

in Florida just like a regional

1:06:36

thing. And she set a new world

1:06:36

record. I cannot believe it.

1:06:39

Did they have it, like because I'm thinking of like when you watch them on the

1:06:40

Olympics, like Did they have the

1:06:43

time on their of like what the

1:06:43

record is, that's how I was

1:06:46

like, Oh my gosh.

1:06:48

This was just like a

1:06:48

regular, like a bunch of high

1:06:50

school kids. She was swimming

1:06:50

next to high school kids while

1:06:53

she did this. They have these

1:06:53

open events where like high

1:06:55

school kids can swim, and

1:06:55

college kids, and professionals,

1:06:58

to anybody who wants to get a

1:06:58

time can just go jump in these

1:07:00

open events. And I guess she was

1:07:00

feeling like I've been training

1:07:03

and I'm gonna good place and

1:07:03

maybe I can better my time. And

1:07:05

so she just jumped in and swam

1:07:05

it and I cannot but I've never

1:07:09

seen something that like

1:07:09

historic happen real time in

1:07:11

real person. Like in life, it was amazing.

1:07:13

And that also would just

1:07:13

be wild to see someone you know,

1:07:16

who's just like Superhuman by in

1:07:16

swimming. Like just, I mean, I

1:07:20

can't even imagine how like how

1:07:20

fast she must have been going.

1:07:23

That's crazy. It was crazy. So

1:07:23

cool.

1:07:28

She's amazing. And then

1:07:28

she hops out, cools down for

1:07:30

like five minutes and they will

1:07:30

cool down pool and then gets out

1:07:33

and like takes pictures with all

1:07:33

the kids who were there and like

1:07:35

super nice to everybody. And

1:07:35

it's just amazing. She's an

1:07:38

amazing person. So whether

1:07:38

you're into swimming or not like

1:07:41

we've got this amazing athlete,

1:07:41

that's just like crushing it the

1:07:44

best of all time in women's

1:07:44

swimming, distance swimming, and

1:07:47

she represents the US and I got

1:07:47

to see her in person. I was

1:07:49

totally beyond myself. It was amazing.

1:07:51

Did you get a selfie

1:07:51

with her? Kevin, be honest.

1:07:53

I didn't. I stood back and let the kids get all the pictures.

1:07:55

You're just like pushing them out of the way.

1:07:57

You're in the

1:07:57

background. You're like, you

1:08:00

know, like, Hey, I'm the dad of

1:08:00

the back. I got my job. Here. I

1:08:04

got all the dad jokes. I'll be here.

1:08:07

It's amazing, though. I think you experience it differently. Like I think the

1:08:08

kids thought it was pretty neat

1:08:11

and stuff but like as an adult,

1:08:11

recognizing that you're actually

1:08:13

in the presence of like the

1:08:13

greatest person to ever do this

1:08:16

ever. Like it's it just hits a

1:08:16

little differently. Like yeah,

1:08:19

that's awesome.