0:00

What? We learned investigating the death

0:02

of Chicago student activist Oscar. Gomez

0:04

zealously to learn almost every

0:07

theory to examine. Binge

0:09

all eight episodes of Imperfect Paradise,

0:11

The Forgotten Revolutionary wherever you get

0:14

your podcast. Hey,

0:18

I'm. Anthony yesterday he the and

0:20

this is Imperfect Paradise from L

0:22

A Or Studios the show about

0:25

hidden worlds and messy realities. You're

0:27

listening to a special redraw of

0:29

Imperfect Paradise, the forgotten revolutionary from

0:31

our second season last episode. We

0:34

learned more about the night Oscar

0:36

died. Know they were

0:38

operating. Heavy know how

0:40

to another. Because they

0:42

were I target for. This

0:47

episode, the investigation takes us to

0:50

the bluffs were Oscar died and

0:52

we explore whether his death might

0:54

have been a part of a

0:57

larger pattern. Years: Las Correspondent alone

0:59

Phobos My opus. Producer.

1:04

Natalie should not skyn I are back

1:07

in Santa Barbara were Oscar Gomez died

1:09

almost thirty years ago. This.

1:11

Time We're at the police department, not

1:13

the sheriff's office that we visited earlier.

1:18

We want to know if the police have

1:20

any records on Oscar that we might have

1:22

missed. That's. How We meet The Records

1:24

Manager at the Police Department. She

1:26

says there are any records on Oscar can

1:28

she's not familiar with the name. But.

1:30

She was a you see Santa Barbara

1:32

college student at the same time. And

1:35

you are in school. Ninety one

1:38

through I was in Ivy. Ninety

1:40

One To Ninety Six. She

1:42

tells us her name is Margot.

1:44

Rita Moreno. Margarita Like the Jury?

1:46

Yeah. Or the flower

1:49

that's nobody ever says that cousins name is

1:51

one of the other that says the yeah

1:53

if it's. And

1:56

Margarita as college dorm the was

1:58

right next to where are. There's

2:00

body was found. And.

2:02

So I'm in er When my mom drop

2:04

me off I was only freshmen of the

2:06

ocean. Friends feel my mom's. Like where are

2:08

you going to school system. Thinks.

2:11

Of the neighborhood around U C Santa Barbara.

2:13

As a tip of land, a point cells

2:15

into the Pacific Ocean along the right edge

2:17

of the tip says the school's campus along

2:20

the left edge because I'm of the stuff

2:22

the community also known as I Be. A

2:25

lot of college students live there and

2:27

it gives you see Santa Barbara it's

2:29

party school reputation. If. You zoom

2:31

in, you'd see that along both of these

2:33

edges are bluffs. The drop down to the

2:35

beach. According to the sheriff

2:37

coroner's report, Oscar was last seen alive

2:39

on Del Pilar Drive. The street alongside

2:41

the Blessed Can I Love is done

2:44

the left edge of the tip. His

2:46

body was found nearly fifteen hours later

2:48

and about a mile walk away on

2:50

the right side near the campus. That's

2:53

the sword next to the dorm here.

2:55

Margarita lived her freshman year. Point

3:03

along. The Way to

3:05

be using does one place in particular where

3:08

most of the deaths of Happens Deeps feel

3:10

flyer routes still plays out as and I

3:12

love this. The. Apartment where

3:14

Oscar was last seen alive was also

3:16

and of. Margarita

3:18

says blood related deaths along

3:21

that road in i'm other

3:23

stuff. Or. Infamous. I

3:25

mean, it's so many different stories

3:27

out there. running from believe, running

3:30

from other people and they die

3:32

sloppy. And.

3:36

So people would be running even just

3:39

messing around and they draw not literally

3:41

run off the class So city of

3:43

ran off that cliff are walked off

3:45

a cliff Success! There was even light

3:47

as you really can't snow, can't see.

3:50

Like I was hurt even when I was

3:52

in school. How the police would be? You know,

3:54

try to capture somebody is running away like

3:56

they'd stop chasing. Them. For them,

3:59

the sovereign. A So they. Run off the

4:01

claim. Everything were wondering is you know

4:03

with so does the said what is

4:05

done to improve surplus yeah and make

4:07

sure that people don't fall as dollar

4:10

it up attack that minor sending as

4:12

a i put up fences at that

4:14

point maybe some light and by. The.

4:18

Way Margarita is describing these

4:20

bless. It sounds like thousand

4:22

deaths are common. When

4:27

I search Santa Barbara Bush have

4:29

so nine. there are dozens of

4:31

new stories, mostly about college students

4:33

who fallen off the cliff of

4:35

i Love This Done Some survived,

4:38

some died, And

4:40

he makes me wonder just how

4:42

deadly are these plants? And

4:45

what can they tell us about what happened?

4:53

I marvel movies and this is

4:55

paradise. The for done were Bluesmen,

5:25

Hundred times less. After

5:31

a day of reporting Natalie nine go to

5:33

see I Love is To for ourselves. It's

5:35

dark by the time we arrive on Dell

5:37

Playa, the street I've only known through Oscars

5:40

Death for. Their

5:44

student. Housing everywhere and one of these

5:46

apartments is the one where Jose Gonzalez

5:49

moved with no and with that were

5:51

asked his stayed the last night of

5:53

his life. This

5:56

is where Oscar Gomez was

5:58

in one of the these

6:00

apartments are the day before

6:02

he was found dead. So.

6:05

It's is really dense housing a

6:07

lot of to story either apartment

6:10

buildings or someone story homes. There's

6:12

some frat houses maybe sorority houses

6:14

around here too. We

6:17

walk through a small park right up

6:20

to a chain link fence. About four

6:22

or five be time. Not too hard

6:24

to climb over. Beyond that, a few

6:26

feet of land and a straight drop

6:28

down to the beach. Thirty two, eighty

6:30

feet depending on where you aren't Even

6:33

though I'm behind, the sense of feeling

6:35

a bit of vertigo. If

6:37

it's because I know that students have fallen here, We

6:40

look around to figure out how to get

6:42

out safely to the store. Is

6:46

this a walkway down? We don't Winner. Yeah.

6:55

I'll just settle. On

7:00

well variant very nice moments of

7:03

panetta phyllis a long way. And

7:06

were standing now on a i'm. On

7:09

a wooden staircase. Leading

7:12

down to the beach the beaches cry

7:14

about for twenty thirty see down he

7:17

can hear the ways for fuck the

7:19

surface only about two or three feet

7:21

high. It's really

7:23

dark. You can't really see where

7:25

the ocean mean. I can just

7:27

see the weight foaming at the

7:29

way. It is closer slowly eroding

7:32

for the houses are are just

7:34

on the edge of the person

7:36

a looks I guess what who

7:38

provoked. Of

7:41

sixty foot drop from the balconies

7:43

down here. but I just as

7:45

a fair my hands see on

7:48

some of the off the cliff

7:50

material and it's kind of like

7:52

breaking in my hands. On

7:56

a guess as the water. What?

8:04

Can Always I'm thinking of the

8:07

water and sand the corner found

8:09

in Oscars Airways. I'm thinking of

8:11

the grisly Tv news footage of

8:13

Oscars body and surf nearly covered

8:15

in seaweed and three men probably

8:17

from a sheriff's standing a few

8:19

feet away looking at Oscar. The

8:22

sea breeze, the sand, the ocean,

8:24

water, Korea message an echo of

8:26

Oscar that I haven't heard in

8:29

interviews, haven't read and documents and

8:31

have not heard him a cassette

8:33

recordings of his show. Smaller

8:37

some of the loaded he was

8:39

a movie came from is gonna

8:41

be easy feat and are better

8:43

single who you are yourself on

8:45

to build move forward with another

8:48

be smoking darkness. I

9:05

can imagine positive standing here reading

9:08

in the same salty air in

9:10

in the same ways. And

9:13

I'm seeing how steep these boxes

9:15

can be dangerous for could have

9:18

posed for Oscar and for the

9:20

community of young college students nearby.

9:22

Just how often do people fall

9:24

off his clothes and has anything

9:26

been done to protect them? That's

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The what you're done. I got

11:46

some. Documents

11:50

for

11:52

us.

12:00

This is our associate producer, James

12:02

Towel. I was not able to

12:04

find a comprehensive list of bluff

12:06

related falls and deaths in Santa

12:08

Barbara anywhere on mine. So.

12:10

He's been looking through old newspaper

12:13

articles and requesting information from public

12:15

agencies, including the Sheriff's office. And.

12:18

These documents are all.

12:22

The files I was able to compile

12:24

from. Sub. People who

12:26

phone from the bluffs and I'll of

12:29

this stuff from nineteen Ninety to two

12:31

A nineteen. So. The big

12:33

question for me is whether.

12:36

Oscars. Das He and

12:38

his fatal injuries. Are

12:41

part of a pattern among all

12:43

these other. Bluff. Deaths.

12:45

So between Ninety Nine in Twenty Ninety and

12:48

how many people died from falling off the

12:50

blizzards and Barbara, I was able to count

12:52

twelve. So

12:55

there are two kinds of cliff related

12:57

falls in Santa Barbara: The first kind

13:00

or more straightforward where people fall off

13:02

the edge of the bless the second

13:04

kind our balcony deaths incidence where students

13:06

scale from balconies that extend over the

13:09

edge of the cliffs. Or. The

13:11

balconies themselves have collapsed. So.

13:13

These twelve deaths include

13:15

both bluff and balcony

13:17

false. I

13:20

want to give a warning. Hear that for

13:23

the rest of the episode we will be

13:25

discussing fatal injuries in a graphic way. So.

13:30

There is ten labeled as accidents

13:32

Xl desk and to listed as

13:35

undetermined just to. And.

13:37

That includes oscar. Arm

13:40

And surprisingly enough or in ninety ninety

13:42

four when Oscar died he was actually

13:44

not the only person allow him in.

13:47

That and for and and pathway. Oh

13:49

tell me about that yes Er Nurses

13:51

other person name Brian Scott Miller I'm

13:53

sure it is on t A look

13:56

at it and they actually had died

13:58

and accidental deaths. From what I remember

14:00

I think they were under the influence

14:03

of some kind of alcohol and they

14:05

had lean over sense to vomit and.

14:08

Accidentally fell over. And.

14:10

Says three months before Oscar died. Who.

14:14

Else here we go. Classification:

14:17

Accident cause. Closed

14:20

Head Injury Impact Trauma.

14:24

I'm not a doctor. But. This

14:26

injury looks very similar

14:28

to Huskers. Okay

14:34

this is and to speed or

14:36

I hear the toxicology laboratory pace

14:38

and stuff like the ones for

14:40

Oscar of his of for Oscars.

14:43

The. Blood alcohol

14:46

level was we weren't

14:48

aids and. Do

14:52

member for him. What see our blood

14:54

blood alcohol level was for Brad Miller?

14:56

Oh here we go. Point one seven

14:58

Point One seven. That's right, And

15:01

I will say that out of the twelve

15:03

people that I was able to find I'm

15:05

who fell over cliffs and died at nine

15:07

out of told them had alcohol or drugs

15:09

and there's some. Eleven of

15:11

them are also students. So. I'm.

15:15

Astrodome. As dies from massive

15:17

head injury. How

15:21

many other people die from massive

15:24

head injuries falling off the bus?

15:26

Yes! I was able to find

15:28

seven people. Out of

15:30

twelve people who died from falling off

15:33

the bluffs over nearly three decades. Seven.

15:36

Of them had causes of death very

15:38

similar to Oscars trauma to the head.

15:41

Team. Starts showing me the

15:43

autopsies in corners. Reports. Timothy.

15:46

Baptista had somewhere injuries printer cerebral

15:48

injury due to blunt force trauma

15:50

and and his at death was

15:53

an accident get his as as

15:55

accident but from here. I

15:57

member reading that Oscar had some with less injury

15:59

to the. As person actually

16:01

had cervical spine injury and those other

16:03

only injury listed So for Andrew let's

16:06

and such as his cause of death

16:08

cerebral than two sons and basal skull

16:10

fractures and blunt force trauma to the

16:13

head wow. Did he have any

16:15

other major bones broken or anything like than.

16:17

The bones broken. At or mentioned

16:20

here are all in the are on the

16:22

skull. Oh they're none on

16:24

his arms or legs. Anything with them as

16:26

see no yeah there's a lot of it

16:28

is I'm. Abrasions on his

16:30

arrest, some kind of bruising them,

16:32

laceration separate happen with us. Exactly

16:34

does it will happen with Oscar.

16:36

There were also able to get

16:39

some data from the Sheriff's Department

16:41

in Santa Barbara and adds more

16:43

recent data and and actually includes

16:45

both injuries and as so from

16:47

Twenty Ten to Twenty Twenty One,

16:49

Forty three people fell off these

16:51

bluffs. That's

16:57

forty three people who sell off the bless

16:59

denial of his death in a span of

17:01

about a decade. And that

17:03

doesn't include balcony deaths. Wow,

17:06

it's looking like Oscars Das

17:08

is part of a pattern.

17:10

That it's not. An

17:13

outlier teams. It just strikes

17:15

me that year after year

17:18

in this time period that

17:20

is looked at from Nineteen

17:22

Ninety Two just a few

17:25

years ago on a regular

17:27

basis, students young people fall

17:29

off of these cliffs and

17:31

die. So.

17:35

With so many deaths year

17:37

after year, what's been done?

17:40

By. The university to try

17:42

to stop this. It's

17:44

been kind of like a push and

17:46

pull with a lot of the community

17:48

and with the county and other institutions.

17:51

Just like all these people who are

17:53

proud of beauty of the parts and

17:55

they don't want any kind of like

17:57

obstruct sins with sensing that kind of

17:59

defeats. View that people would love

18:01

of to see of like from the

18:03

oh sin and what not. And

18:06

then they're the people who are concerned

18:08

about this pattern of blood related deaths.

18:10

Like. To use Csp Student Advocacy Group

18:13

since I Love Vista Created in

18:15

two thousand and thirteen. There's.

18:17

Actually been quite a few fencing

18:19

initiatives over the years. I believe in

18:22

two thousand and one Santa Barbara

18:24

County actually passed an ordinance mandating that

18:26

Oceanside houses have fencing at least three

18:28

feet high on both the balconies and

18:31

ground level patios. Remember.

18:33

That geography I talked about earlier. That.

18:35

Tip of land starting out into the ocean. There.

18:38

Is fencing and riding on much of the

18:40

university side now. Decided. Jason the

18:43

campus buildings in housing. On

18:45

the i love This decide there's fencing to. So.

18:48

It's not everywhere. Although I

18:50

should say even sensing can totally

18:52

prevent accidents. We've. Been told by

18:54

former students that sometimes people climb over the

18:56

fences for the view. Or. To take a

18:59

pee. The. Main responsibility for

19:01

fencing. I love esta. I

19:03

were Santa Barbara County government. So.

19:06

What is the county's legal obligation

19:08

to make the area safe? Considering

19:11

this history of blood related accidents,

19:14

We. Tried down the legal advisor to the county

19:16

at the time. Has

19:18

retired lifestyles, It's

19:21

it's pretty good. It's pretty good am

19:24

hearing can wear to and which one

19:26

must the time. Stephen.

19:28

Underwood is a lawyer who represented Santa

19:30

Barbara County in Nineteen Ninety Four. And

19:33

for twenty five years, one of his main

19:35

clients was the Sheriff's office. He

19:38

represented the county when Oscars father

19:40

Mr. Gomez sued them. Underwood

19:42

says Mr. Gomez was not the only parent

19:44

to sue the county because of their child's

19:47

injuries. Along the plus. There's. One

19:49

case he remembers where the plane have claim

19:51

their suda been a safety measure or a

19:53

warning sign to deter students from the cliffs.

19:56

And how that she's played out. Surprises.

19:59

Me: And so that kiss

20:01

on the corner feel and them?

20:07

Or because when we have unimproved public

20:09

property government property on your immune from

20:12

liability if you don't sit in a

20:14

you don't have to fix anything, you

20:16

don't have the same path only in

20:19

all or of though for whole or

20:21

anything else he does leave it in

20:23

a satchel same as less than a

20:26

satchel. say you're not responsible for that.

20:29

This immunity Underwood is talking about his

20:31

part of state law. And. It

20:33

basically says that public entities are

20:35

not responsible for injury caused by

20:37

good, improve public property that's in

20:40

it's natural state. That. Includes

20:42

lakes, rivers and beaches.

20:45

The. Reasoning for this immunity is that to

20:47

really make and improve public property safe

20:49

would be so expensive to a government

20:51

that they would likely restrict the use

20:53

of this land. That. Would cut

20:56

off the public from hiking trails,

20:58

lakes, rivers, and other outdoor recreational

21:00

activities. So. In exchange for

21:02

free access to say, a waterfall.

21:05

The. Liability for any injury is

21:07

on you. What?

21:09

Makes property improve vs on

21:12

improved is complicated. But. Basically,

21:14

Underwood told us that his recommendation

21:16

to the county was to avoid

21:18

putting up sensing lighting or other

21:21

safety measures around the bless in

21:23

order to keep the county's immunity

21:25

from lawsuits. Am A.

21:27

I sat in a sort of

21:29

counter intuitive well. Something's happening.

21:33

And as. A

21:36

case because immunity. It was this or

21:39

the op's. Struggle.

21:43

Or something on the community because she's

21:46

interested in funding of senses. Sources:

21:56

Us else. There.

21:59

Is a lot. Now. But. I

22:01

also know how much of a wasn't there

22:03

in the nineties. I

22:05

was just curious going back to

22:08

the legal strategy of not making

22:10

improvements to the bless like I

22:12

understand the strategy. And

22:16

you wanna keep your immunity so they

22:18

don't get more losses? I'm

22:21

just wondering how you feel about that. In retrospect, not

22:23

as an attorney, but sort of as a a

22:25

person. Is hard

22:27

Not that ended her knees not a person or

22:29

persons houses of reasons or for the separated. Your

22:33

them to an intern is going to use

22:35

all the tools that they have and this

22:38

allows them to use those tools and they

22:40

can make an argument that is a valid

22:42

argument. This they

22:44

should make it. But

22:47

on the other hand, I

22:50

bet know or inches

22:52

they're in early twenties

22:54

and I would want

22:56

them to be protected.

23:03

So even though this was the legal recommendation

23:06

at the time. Ultimately it's

23:08

the Santa Barbara Tone, a government

23:10

that sets policy. So we reach

23:12

out to the office of the

23:14

Santa Barbara Supervisor who represents I

23:16

will discuss their response know com

23:18

or for investigation. Seeing

23:21

Oscars injuries in the context

23:23

of all these accidental bluff

23:25

related falls on beginning to

23:27

understand why shares detectors would

23:29

conclude that after school was

23:31

also an accident but was

23:33

that because his injuries and

23:35

truly pointed to an accidental

23:37

phone for the because accident

23:40

was an easy. After

23:43

the break, independent forensic pathologist

23:45

gives us the clarity we've

23:47

been looking. The

24:04

Port com in Japan hotel a present

24:06

and yes Kelly is or it except

24:09

yourself. How are you translate to

24:11

cute and adorable? Yet it's influence

24:13

extends beyond settings to encompass Olson.

24:15

Art Technology, And even social

24:17

behavior the best in the Sudan.

24:19

The king of tidy things together.

24:21

multiple artwork unraveling the college concept

24:23

to foster a sense of joy.

24:26

innocence. And community as a tool

24:28

for some the cost of representation

24:30

visitors. Can set into the colorful world's to

24:32

seal the aesthetic for themselves. May second to.

24:34

November third, no admission. see more

24:36

at Japan House. L A.com. My.

24:43

Name is Lindsay Thomas and

24:45

I am a forensic pathologists.

24:49

As have you done autopsies. I

24:51

ask. How many. Oh

24:54

gosh, probably over five thousand. It's a

24:56

spy. Doctor. Lindsay Thomas

24:58

was based in Minnesota for most of

25:00

her career, where for over a decade

25:02

she was a Chief Medical Examiner. We.

25:05

Sent her oscars ninety Ninety four

25:07

def documents. So. Before we

25:09

get into get some of

25:11

the conclusions you have about this

25:14

autopsy report, can you read tell

25:16

some of the main findings

25:18

in this report? This is a

25:20

very thorough autopsy report, so in

25:23

the absence of photographs, I

25:25

still have a pretty good

25:27

idea of what's going on here.

25:29

So when a forensic pathologists

25:31

makes a diagnosis of cranial cerebral

25:34

trauma, what they basically mean is

25:36

it someone died as a

25:38

result. Of Heaven series. So what

25:40

we're talking about here is sort

25:42

of near the top. On.

25:45

The Side And it's

25:47

sulkily depressed. Meaning a

25:49

chance. That that part

25:52

of the soul has been

25:54

forced and. I want

25:56

to know about the other injuries on Oscars

25:58

body. Injuries his. Family and

26:00

friends believe are suspicious. First.

26:03

The abrasions, Doctor Thomas says

26:05

that those are commonly seen when someone is

26:07

found in the water. Because. Of the

26:09

way their body might be thrown about by the

26:11

waves. I'm there's

26:13

also description of Up. I think

26:15

it's a injury to to a

26:18

bone in the interior of the

26:20

skull. Ah, Up I've been

26:22

told that. Certain. A lot

26:24

of forces needed to break

26:27

that. That. Bone? Can

26:29

you do You talk about that

26:31

injury? Honestly? To suggest. That

26:33

kind of radiating. Ah,

26:37

fracture. Associates.

26:40

I mean, it's certainly possible that a

26:42

really sign person with a base of

26:44

add or a tire iron could do

26:46

it, but to me, it's more consistent.

26:48

With. A really

26:51

significant fall. And. It's.

26:53

Said sizes in Surrey that see and

26:55

motor vehicle crashes to see give you

26:57

an idea of kind of fair degree

27:00

of force so it's not a sort

27:02

of thing you'd get from in are

27:04

some being punched or even being hit

27:06

over the head with a beer bottle

27:09

or something like that by it is

27:11

certainly senses sense whereas a fall from

27:13

a height or jump from a height

27:15

as some on lands on their head.

27:19

I also asked Dr. Thomas about

27:21

how Oscar being drunk. Might.

27:23

Have affected what happened to him that night. Tell.

27:26

Me about that. Tommy Bowe. The Point One: A:

27:28

What does that due to a person's i'm i'm

27:30

sitting skills? Well, A. He's

27:32

a young guy, so even if

27:34

she's been drinking heavily for a

27:36

few years, it's not like he's

27:38

and sixty year old who has

27:40

a lifetime of experience with. In

27:43

of handling. Alcoholics To have

27:45

a point One eight means you're

27:48

really impaired and of course, balance

27:50

and judgment or two of the

27:52

things that are most frequently impaired

27:55

early on. In this report,

27:57

we don't have a measurement of how

27:59

much mail. Wanna he had smoked, but

28:01

there's a detection of it in

28:03

his bloodstream. Marijuana. Is

28:06

sounds so commonly that we tend

28:08

to just over workouts, but the

28:10

fact is in combination with alcohol,

28:13

it's. Fair. Can be

28:15

and of a. Symbiotic.

28:18

Serves you well relationship in

28:21

terms of perhaps as acting

28:23

summers judgments or. Cysts.

28:27

Thought. Process and reasoning

28:29

skills. So. He did

28:31

fall. On to come

28:33

rocks at bottom of the

28:36

bluffs. What?

28:38

Kind of. Like.

28:42

Tsunami blood with this produce from

28:44

this kind of injury and as

28:46

you know kind of Emmett in

28:49

evidence quote unquote right? I'm what

28:51

would we be able to tell

28:53

where he so. I

28:55

mean this close to water? I.

28:58

Think it's really. Going to

29:01

be hard to predict. Whites.

29:04

You would expect to see in terms as

29:07

glad as the impact site. Meaning.

29:10

It's possible that any evidence.

29:13

Was. Washed away. Years.

29:17

And we haven't really

29:19

talked about this is

29:21

the an internal next

29:23

century where there's hammered

29:25

since the musculature of

29:27

the anterior ligaments. With

29:30

a whip last. Have you

29:32

seen yourself or read about with

29:34

this? this type of whiplash injury

29:37

caused at the hands of another.

29:41

I'm now. I would say that

29:43

would be a very unexpected finding

29:45

a minute. I'm not saying it

29:48

never happens by, it's. Ah,

29:50

it's much more comments from some

29:53

type of. Her

29:55

family and someone's have been

29:58

thrown back. Or. What

30:01

I would envision here would be

30:03

a jump and lands him ahead

30:06

and then of hyperextending the next.

30:09

I hadn't thought of the whiplash injury

30:11

as important here. Especially not

30:13

in comparison with Oscars heads. But

30:16

what not? To thomas? The saying here feels

30:18

like a big deal. It's

30:21

a very compelling argument that Oscar

30:23

was not kitten the head with

30:25

an object, that his injuries and

30:27

his death. Were. Most likely the

30:30

result of a fall. We're.

30:32

Talking to a lot friends and

30:34

family A lot of people Who? Who?

30:36

Who? Who knew Oscar and people who

30:39

were talking to his father to I'm

30:41

obviously I'm to know there's been a

30:43

lot of pain in the family or

30:46

because because of the Das I'm in.

30:48

When the things that he and others

30:50

have told us about this report is

30:53

that. Well. Why? If

30:55

he fell off a for a

30:58

bluff a clear on the sure

31:00

one went there. Any other bones,

31:03

broken shoulders, arms, legs, why just

31:05

the cranium Our to answer that.

31:08

Find somebody depends where somebody

31:10

lance if someone. Basically.

31:13

As a had dies and just

31:15

lands on their had, especially in

31:18

a case like this where the

31:20

had absorbed significant injuries. I

31:23

wouldn't necessarily expect that there

31:25

would be any other. Injuries.

31:29

What's. Your conclusion about how he died.

31:32

I think see. Their salary

31:34

dance offers some place that

31:37

landed him for enough to

31:39

the water that. When.

31:43

The tide's a manner went out or.

31:46

Whatever. It's and serve roles

31:48

him around and us as and it was

31:50

some up where he was sound. We've.

31:55

Been told the the families believes

31:57

he was killed by somebody. I

32:01

mean this this is say ah

32:03

you know I healthy young man

32:05

So. Is. And Sachs you were involved.

32:08

In a homicidal attacks? Why does me

32:10

a broken bones in his hands said

32:12

he put up to protect from a

32:15

blow? Or why doesn't he have seasonal

32:17

injuries? I mean usually people start with

32:19

a plans to the knows. I

32:22

mean, it certainly seems to me

32:24

that family so often go down

32:27

this route. Was

32:29

just leaving. Head

32:31

lice is not. So.

32:33

Unfair that a random accidents caused

32:36

is kind of pain to them

32:38

that somebody must have done something.

32:41

And. It's it's

32:43

tragic. I mean, I can't

32:45

imagine if my son died

32:47

in a set of circumstances.

32:50

Who knows what? Trainers.

32:55

Police I would develop. Just

32:57

to make it so nice of live with it.

33:04

All I can think about. Is

33:06

what I'm going to say. Mister Gomez

33:08

and whether he didn't believe that Oscars

33:11

death was an accident. Or

33:13

explains Dr. Thomas my own connection

33:15

to ask her. How

33:18

we ran in the same to kind of

33:20

student activists circles in the nineteen nineties. Ah,

33:23

that makes it so hard for. You.

33:26

As he isn't just an anonymous,

33:28

he's not. Just.

33:31

What? What Are the best things?

33:33

You can say to a family send.

33:36

Your. Prospective

33:39

to help him. He'll. Ah

33:42

gosh, I don't. Take.

33:45

It as my job to convince some.

33:48

You know, because. I.

33:50

I get that sometimes it's

33:53

just. thinking. That someone

33:55

you loved maids his toys or

33:57

put themselves in a situation where

33:59

this. Happened. It's just too

34:01

painful. How difficult is

34:04

a Doctor Thomas for you know this?

34:07

Undetermined labeled to be placed

34:09

on a Das. And you

34:11

know, The possibilities. In this

34:14

case. While I don't think people

34:16

ever really get closer whatever that

34:18

is from the death of a

34:20

child, I don't see how you

34:22

ever. Fully recover we

34:24

know why she died in

34:26

that he had a head

34:28

injury but we don't know

34:31

how he got that head

34:33

injury and I have to.

34:35

saints as a family. It's

34:39

a fleece. A lot of space for

34:41

people to tell them stories. And

34:43

for them to be pulled in

34:46

one direction and another. And. To

34:49

not be able to really settle on.

34:51

Okay, well this is. This is what

34:53

we have to live with. I

34:55

mean it's gonna be. In a way

34:58

not unlike people whose. Bodies have never

35:00

found. You. You.

35:02

Can never finish the story. After

35:06

Doctor Thomas signs off. Natalie.

35:08

Night stands him. Oh.

35:14

At this moment feel

35:16

hearing. Her

35:18

opinion. Legs is it

35:20

feels says it all towards life. It

35:29

does feel pivotal I think of turned a corner.

35:33

In terms of the. Everyday

35:35

people been saying to us about

35:37

ask are being murdered on. You

35:40

know, I haven't discounted it.

35:42

I have a discounted at one

35:44

hundred percent by. You. Know

35:47

the medical information. Will.

35:49

Be discounts in some of these

35:51

have long held beliefs by the

35:53

family and friends. That

35:56

the coroner's report. Suggests.

36:00

Or points to. A

36:02

homicide. She made a very

36:04

compelling case for the accidental

36:06

death. By. The

36:08

way. We. Double checked with

36:10

another forensic pathologist. One. Who

36:13

knows, the Santa Barbara shoreline? He

36:15

echoed everything a doctor Thomas told us.

36:19

I found it interesting that she said. She

36:22

doesn't think it's her job to

36:24

convince families. Don't

36:28

know that it's our job either. There

36:30

you go. There you

36:32

go! Yeah, absolutely. But

36:36

even if we contribute this. This

36:40

is more than what's been

36:42

out there already, even if

36:44

we contribute a reliable expert

36:46

which I believe Doctor Thomas

36:48

is. I

36:51

think that's a that's a significant

36:53

contribution to to the question of

36:56

how did Ask die. If.

37:01

We. The. Emphasize the

37:04

murdered part by introducing this

37:06

information. You know what

37:08

that possibly does that possibly highlights his

37:10

activism? That possibly. Give

37:13

people the say oh yeah well.

37:16

After this podcast it was not

37:18

really. Ah, I'm. Clear

37:21

that he was murdered. We don't. We don't

37:24

think that anymore. But we still think. He

37:26

reads people he of. He

37:30

embolden them at a

37:32

time when they were

37:34

feeling under siege by

37:36

the elected officials. He

37:39

gave them. Something

37:49

to be proud of. At

37:52

a time. When.

37:58

The elected officials were. Going them

38:00

felt they were less than human. Harrys.

38:07

His ceiling. Oh man

38:09

says well enough. So

38:12

I got a started to get choked out for trying

38:14

to get the word. You know,

38:16

proud pride, Proud How.

38:20

And that that star. That's

38:23

that's. You

38:25

know that's what he was about. Being

38:28

brown and proud. This

38:32

is what Oscars friends and family want to

38:34

highlight. To. Question

38:37

of his death always steers

38:39

the conversation of course. Which

38:43

is why I'm still trying to

38:46

reach a more definitive answer. Al

38:50

East correspondent as on for was my Lopez

38:52

reporting this. Story. So

38:56

so that was the first

38:59

time I'm hearing from someone

39:01

was soft Oscar that night

39:03

in the apartments you saw

39:05

them fighting final year of

39:07

marches off my. Back

39:10

In The next and final episode

39:13

of Imperfect. Paradise The Forgotten

39:15

Revolutionary. I've

39:24

also my Lopez wrote, reported and

39:26

hosted season two of Imperfect Paradise,

39:28

The Forgotten Revolutionary. Oh, writing and

39:30

co reporting by lead producer at

39:32

Natalie to Not Skyn I'm Anthony

39:34

A City either host of Imperfect

39:36

Paradise or Female House is executive

39:38

producer the show and seen any

39:40

Only Clock Law is our vice

39:42

President and Pa com or associate

39:44

producers and James How and Sense

39:46

he saw as he has been

39:48

editing. There are three Clean fact

39:50

checking My Audrey Reagan mixing and

39:52

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39:55

is our production coordinator the.

39:57

Music supervisor is that is a name when

39:59

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