0:03

What is up, daddy gang? It is your

0:05

founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

0:11

Janelle Monae, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

0:13

Thank you so much for having me. I'm, first

0:16

of all, I'm just so excited to meet you. I'm a huge fan

0:18

of all your work. I was listening to your

0:20

music on my way here and I'm like, okay, you are

0:22

giving sexual, sensual,

0:24

fun, party vibes. It gives all the vibes.

0:27

Your album is amazing. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank

0:29

you so much for having me. Of course. I'm

0:32

a big fan of your show, of your

0:34

experience rather. So I

0:37

was really happy when I found out we were going to do this.

0:39

So thank you.

0:57

Okay. Tell me how your summer's going.

0:59

You were on vacation. Where

1:01

were you? Let us pretend we were there with you.

1:04

Please. I'm like, can we all

1:07

just

1:08

go on vacation for the whole summer? Come

1:10

on, everybody. Everybody, let's do

1:13

this. Let's all agree that

1:15

summers are for vacations

1:18

paid for by the government.

1:21

I love this energy. Paid

1:23

for by the government. We're

1:25

going to like manifest it here now

1:27

because it's like when you were younger, I feel like summers

1:30

were always vacation because off of school. But

1:32

when you become an adult, nothing is fun

1:35

anymore. We're like, we need to go on vacation.

1:37

Okay. So where were you? Okay. So I was

1:39

in Ibiza,

1:40

Spain.

1:43

And then I stayed there for probably

1:45

like five or six days,

1:47

which was like an

1:50

experience. Like it is a party place.

1:52

So we did not go to sleep. I went with like 10

1:55

of my other friends and we didn't go to sleep till

1:57

like seven in the morning. Every

1:59

morning. I can't even say night, but

2:01

it was so fun. It was that ooh, ooh, ooh,

2:04

ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, that ooch

2:06

ooch music. I kind of like ooch

2:08

ooch, but I need like some hip hop, some

2:10

something mixed in with it, but

2:13

it was so fun. The sunsets

2:15

are beautiful. And then the second

2:17

portion of the vacay was Jamaica.

2:20

Oh, I've never been. Ocho Rios,

2:23

beautiful people, the food,

2:26

the chicken patties, the beef

2:28

patties, the shrimp curry, the

2:31

plantains. I had at least 152 plantains.

2:34

What? One by one. Yeah,

2:37

the water. As you were saying that, I'm like, ooh, I feel like I'm

2:39

there with you. It was like,

2:41

it was heaven. So I will say

2:43

I'm sort of mentally still there. It's

2:46

okay, we can keep it chill. We're on vacation.

2:48

This is summer. Like we're just gonna relax

2:51

today, okay? Let's relax. And it's so interesting

2:53

that you say like, as kids growing up, it just reminded

2:55

me like, I didn't take

2:57

vacations as a kid. I think that's why I'm so

3:00

adamant about it now. I didn't,

3:02

you know, my parents worked a lot and

3:04

we didn't get the opportunity

3:07

to go outside of Kansas. So

3:09

I didn't take my first vacation until

3:12

really my first album came out. And

3:14

now you're like, I deserve this.

3:17

I'm making up for lost time. As you should,

3:19

that's phenomenal. I feel like when I go on

3:21

trips with my friends, there's someone

3:23

in the friend group that's like the planner that's

3:26

like the reservations and the itinerary

3:28

person. And then there's people that are more like chill

3:30

and just going with the flow. Who are you in the friend group?

3:33

Oh my God. I'm the one actually

3:35

sending out

3:36

the group texts. Like dinner,

3:39

I could be at the club. It could be four in the morning. I'm

3:41

like,

3:42

lunch is gonna be served at 2 p.m.

3:45

Breakfast for anybody between nine

3:47

and noon. Dinner's

3:49

gonna be eight. Like I love making

3:52

the itineraries. I'm that friend. You're the dream

3:55

though. Yeah. People

3:57

are like Janelle, why are you doing? And I just, I

3:59

don't know.

3:59

I just love curating experiences.

4:03

I grew up actually throwing

4:06

parties with my best friends,

4:09

middle school,

4:10

sixth grade, seventh grade.

4:12

We would rent out

4:14

this location in one of our friends' neighborhoods,

4:16

this little white building, and we would charge

4:18

people a dollar to get in. And

4:21

I would hide in the bathroom because

4:23

I didn't know

4:25

who was going to come. I had so much anxiety around

4:27

it, and then once it would get packed, my friends

4:29

would come underneath the stall because I locked myself in

4:31

the bathroom. They'd be like, it's packed. Come out, come

4:34

out, bitch. Get out, get out, get out. And

4:36

so I've just always loved curating

4:39

experiences for people. I mean,

4:41

I think that's a great trait and

4:43

quality to have. I feel like that

4:45

makes a lot of sense of what I wanted to talk to you about

4:47

today is obviously your new album, The Age

4:50

of Pleasure is out. And

4:52

while I was listening to it, I'm like, you have such

4:55

a specific

4:55

great vibe

4:57

that's very infectious, which

4:59

I love. And I'm curious, are

5:01

you currently in your age of pleasure? Have you

5:04

always been? And what is age of

5:06

pleasure to you? Oh, that's a great

5:08

question. I

5:11

wasn't always in my age of pleasure. I've been

5:13

in an age of fear, age

5:15

of anxiety, age of

5:21

just

5:23

worry, a fight,

5:27

fighting back against systems that

5:30

seek to oppress folks like myself

5:32

and the people that I love and centering that.

5:36

And with this album, which I

5:39

actually don't even call an album, I say that

5:41

it is a soundtrack to a lifestyle.

5:43

It's a lifestyle. You know,

5:45

we live this. I wrote this

5:49

project for my friends and for me and I was just like,

5:51

if we fuck with it,

5:54

that's all I care about. So I

5:56

would throw parties at my house with my

5:58

friend to own this.

5:59

party collective called Everyday People.

6:02

And if I knew we were gonna be having and hosting

6:05

them on a Saturday, that Monday or Tuesday,

6:07

we would go into the studio and we would write like two

6:09

to three songs that would work in

6:11

the DJ's playlist. I

6:14

wouldn't tell anybody it was me.

6:15

I would not like

6:18

make a big thing about it. And

6:20

I would be very nervous, like, oh my God,

6:22

oh my God, oh my God, are people gonna sit down? Because

6:24

if people sat down, it was not gonna go on the album.

6:27

If people were not shazamming, it

6:29

wasn't going on the album.

6:31

And so every song that you hear, all

6:33

of my friends, all of the people who were

6:35

with us celebrating in this safe space,

6:40

they

6:41

are responsible for the songs making the album.

6:44

That takes a lot of confidence,

6:47

but also just like self-awareness

6:49

to be like, I'm gonna play my friends, my songs.

6:52

They're gonna have no fucking idea, it's me. And

6:55

watch, let's see if they vibe with it. So

6:57

like every single, because I was thinking, when I was listening

6:59

to Champagne Shit, I was like, okay, like,

7:02

this is a vibe. Like, I would listen

7:04

to this, like getting ready with my friends, like getting

7:06

ready to go out. But then I'm

7:08

wondering, like, so you're sitting there being

7:10

like, do they like it, do they like it? And then you're like, check,

7:13

that's going on the soundtrack. Yep, I'm like, how

7:15

do people move? Okay,

7:16

I saw some people

7:18

shazamming. And then some people would be like, wait, is this? But

7:21

I never would confirm, I would go hide and

7:23

be like, having somebody

7:25

else tell me what's going on. But

7:28

yeah, like it's, as an artist,

7:31

presenting anything before the world

7:33

gets it, like for that first time, I

7:35

talked to a lot of my artist friends and we're all like, it

7:37

is one of the most

7:39

like scary things ever, scary

7:41

feelings to have because it comes from

7:44

such a pure place when we create and for

7:46

it not to be accepted, you don't know,

7:48

you know, you take it. But for

7:50

me, I got, I was like,

7:52

I'm ready, I'm okay. I had to heal some shit,

7:55

you know, because some of that is attached

7:57

to just rejection.

7:59

abandonment issues, like people

8:02

don't like my stuff that could go down

8:04

to the root of an issue that you just need to fix. And

8:06

I definitely used a

8:09

portion of this pandemic to sort

8:11

of work on that and to get to my own traumas

8:15

that I had to heal and to get to a place

8:17

where I was like, wait,

8:19

I've been really centering fighting

8:22

so much that I don't even know what my life

8:24

is like outside of that. Who

8:26

am I?

8:27

I talk, like who

8:30

am I outside of the

8:32

fight? Who

8:35

am I? And so I had to sit with myself and ask

8:37

myself and when I think about

8:39

the word pleasure, there is no pleasure

8:41

without feeling safe. I didn't

8:43

always feel safe. That's so, I appreciate

8:45

you sharing that because

8:47

I, one, can relate

8:50

in terms of putting something creatively out

8:52

there and being extremely

8:54

nervous to see obviously, are people gonna like

8:56

it? On top of that, obviously,

8:59

you

9:00

infusing parts of you

9:02

with your sexuality and race

9:05

and growing up and your experiences, that's

9:07

like a really vulnerable moment

9:10

to be infusing something into a work

9:12

of art and then fingers crossed hoping

9:14

people like it. You kind of have to

9:16

slowly be really good with yourself to be able

9:19

to know, sure, I can perfect

9:21

my craft a little bit more, but down to the core,

9:23

if people don't like it, I'm still gonna be okay with myself.

9:26

And that must take time though. Exactly,

9:29

it does. It takes

9:30

a lot of unlearning. It takes

9:32

a lot of

9:36

fucking with yourself. And

9:38

I have to say, you have

9:40

to be like, I fuck with

9:43

me. Yeah,

9:45

okay, somebody doesn't like a

9:47

song that I made, but that doesn't make me

9:50

a bad songwriter. That doesn't make

9:52

me a bad artist.

9:54

That doesn't mean that I should just throw away my whole career.

9:58

You have to just understand that sometimes.

9:59

we're not always in the same space

10:03

that we can take in. Take

10:06

in the message or the energy that

10:08

an artist is trying to put out. And

10:11

there's nothing wrong with that. You're just like, okay, this

10:14

didn't resonate with you. Okay, but

10:17

I don't give you that power over me.

10:19

You're not more powerful.

10:21

Your thoughts about my art are not

10:23

more powerful than my thoughts about

10:26

my art. Yeah, it's so

10:28

real what you're saying too, because even when I was listening

10:30

to you say, I was fighting for

10:32

so much of my life, and when am I gonna get out

10:34

of this stage? That's also the beauty

10:37

of art, is it will

10:39

come

10:40

to it when you're ready. Your

10:42

music would have sounded so different in your

10:45

fighting stages versus now when you're like,

10:47

I fucking love myself, I'm more

10:49

clear on who I am, I'm more secure

10:51

in certain things that were eating me alive maybe

10:54

when I was younger and going through it. And you can

10:56

tell, this album,

10:58

it makes you smile, it makes you feel yourself,

11:01

it makes you just want to live.

11:03

And I don't know if that sounds corny, but it's vast.

11:07

No, it's really beautiful. Thank you so

11:09

much for sharing that. Every moment

11:11

of your soundtrack felt

11:14

very thoughtful

11:15

and put together, and it is

11:17

a story. So I'm a creative person, so I just

11:19

wanna let you know I really respect you and it's great. Thank

11:22

you. I wanted to focus on

11:24

feeling too. I think feeling

11:27

is what music gives us,

11:29

it makes us feel, it makes us wanna dance,

11:31

it makes us wanna party, it makes us wanna cry, it makes

11:34

us wanna feel ourselves and feel sexy,

11:36

have sex, all those things. It's such a

11:38

powerful energy. And

11:42

the fact that it's a feeling

11:44

that I had that I felt like, man, this

11:46

makes me feel good knowing that that

11:48

makes you feel

11:50

and we are just meeting each other, that's

11:53

such, I think that's such a beautiful exchange.

11:55

So thank you so much. Of course, it's interesting,

11:58

you kinda mentioned this earlier and I wanna talk about it.

11:59

it.

12:00

I know you've talked about going to therapy and working

12:03

on yourself and I know you're at a

12:05

great place in your life and you know the

12:07

age of pleasure, but let's go back

12:09

a little bit. What is the biggest

12:11

part of yourself

12:14

you had to heal in order to be who

12:16

you are sitting here today?

12:20

Oh wow. You

12:22

know one of the things that I had to

12:25

do was again

12:29

deal with my rejection and abandonment

12:33

sort of trauma. Where

12:35

did that start from? You know my dad and

12:37

I who were like

12:40

this now were super close but my dad struggled

12:42

with addiction growing up and so he

12:44

was in and out of my life and so

12:46

there were just times where I didn't know if he

12:48

was really going to come and pick me up.

12:51

The trust

12:53

wasn't there. I felt let down. There

12:55

were moments

12:58

that that happened all

13:00

the way up into high school

13:03

and other things that happened. So I had to go

13:05

back to those times that were painful. Those

13:08

times that I just had to forgive my dad. I was

13:11

like I have to forgive you. You were struggling

13:13

with drug addiction. You were not

13:15

the best version of yourself and

13:18

now that you are, we get to make up for that.

13:20

We get to make up for that time and as I healed

13:22

that and I talked to him about it a

13:25

lot changed for me. As I forgave

13:27

him, I forgave my own self

13:29

for spending so many years

13:34

in that dark space and connecting

13:37

that to my art. I thought

13:41

that I had done something wrong why

13:43

wasn't he showing up for me? So when

13:45

you go in the back of your head

13:47

or thinking that you're doing something wrong that your own dad

13:50

isn't around. If in your art you

13:52

feel like people are not

13:54

liking what it is that you're doing or they're

13:56

judging you or whatever, it's so all

13:59

intertwined. You know, the

14:01

feeling of like

14:02

them leaving you, like your dad left

14:04

you, you never want to feel that. And

14:07

so I had to get to a place where I was, I

14:09

understood what that was and I had to let

14:11

go and I had to be okay with knowing

14:14

that there's nothing wrong with me if

14:17

folks don't want to come to my party. You

14:19

know, even me hiding in the bathroom, they

14:21

didn't want to come to my party, okay, that doesn't mean

14:24

there's anything wrong with me. My dad, it

14:26

wasn't nothing wrong with me while my

14:28

dad wasn't around. He was struggling, he was

14:30

battling. And people are battling so

14:32

many things.

14:32

People are into different

14:34

things that perhaps what

14:37

you're doing doesn't necessarily

14:39

align with it. Or they just plain

14:41

might not like it. And that's okay,

14:44

but do you like you?

14:46

I think it's so interesting when you start to connect

14:48

to your childhood and how your

14:50

parents raised you and you

14:53

know, what trauma did you go through.

14:56

When you don't deal with it, there's just like

14:58

this anger in you or there's

15:01

this like resentment and there's just a part

15:03

of you, even if you don't want to label it that, like there's

15:05

just something in you that you feel

15:07

like you haven't resolved. And

15:09

a lot of times we don't have the perspective

15:12

of kids of like, oh, like this wasn't

15:14

intentional that my dad was doing this

15:16

to like neglect me and make me

15:18

feel abandoned, but it happened. And

15:20

so two things can be true, right? Like he

15:23

wasn't trying to like inflict pain on you.

15:25

He was going through something, but it affected

15:26

you. And until you go through

15:29

all of that, it's gonna influence

15:32

the way that you move in life. That you see

15:34

like, yeah. But even you saying it's interesting,

15:36

like it affected your art. I'm interested

15:38

to know how did it affect your personal

15:41

relationships with this theme of abandonment

15:43

within you? It affected them

15:46

for sure. Yeah, it was just

15:48

like trust issues.

15:52

You know, breakups were intense.

15:55

Cause they just mirrored that, but now

15:57

like there were moments where, you know, I was dating someone

15:59

and.

15:59

you know, we broke up and I

16:02

just was like, I will never talk to this person

16:04

again. The way they made

16:06

me feel, I will never

16:08

talk to them again. And after I started

16:10

to go through therapy and I have an

16:12

emotional support coach that I talked to,

16:16

after, which by the way, therapy,

16:18

like we're benefiting

16:21

from therapy. I just really wish that

16:23

it was free for every person around

16:25

the world. I really, really, really

16:27

do wish that there was a fund that everybody

16:30

could access to where they could have therapy,

16:32

they could have somebody to talk to and work through. I do

16:34

believe that we will be in a much better

16:36

shape as a community, as

16:39

a nation, as a world. So

16:42

I just wanted to say that. Cause I feel like,

16:44

damn, I wish everybody could experience

16:46

these things.

16:48

So I was like, I will never talk to this person again. And after

16:50

I went through, you know, understanding

16:54

and getting to the root of like

16:56

my rejection, abandonment, trauma,

17:01

you know what I did? I thanked

17:04

the person

17:06

who I was in a relationship with and

17:08

it did not work out for us. I thanked

17:10

them. I said, you know what? And

17:12

my emotional support coach said that I was going to do that.

17:15

It's like, you are going to thank this person

17:18

because you know what this person did for you.

17:20

They forced you to

17:22

deal with something that you were not going

17:25

to deal with. They

17:28

pushed you

17:29

to go back to the root of the problem.

17:33

You were not going to do it. You were moving. You

17:36

were too busy moving. You didn't have time. But

17:38

that relationship, the ending of that specific

17:40

relationship forced that. And I literally

17:43

called that person and I thanked them. I

17:45

said, thank you so much. You have no

17:47

idea. Like I was really walking

17:49

around here hurt and you forced

17:52

me to like, you know,

17:54

and so they started sharing things with me. They

17:57

were just like, I just wasn't ready. I was confused

17:59

myself.

17:59

I did not trust it was going so well

18:02

for us. I'm so used to chaos that

18:04

I didn't I felt like

18:06

This was not gonna end how I wanted it to end.

18:09

I I'm also dealing with rejection issues So

18:11

we just kind of heal through each other and

18:14

and that were and and

18:16

it helped me and my other relationships I was

18:18

like here the here are the things that I was

18:21

doing because of my trauma when

18:23

I'm free from that trauma I'm like a

18:25

really really really Like beautiful

18:28

partner to have and it just helped me

18:30

to understand how I want to show up for for my future

18:32

partners It's not so interesting when you meet

18:35

people in life that Obviously

18:38

again, like you needed to work on yourself

18:40

to be able to have that hindsight and be like wait That

18:43

was so helpful. But like most of the

18:45

time

18:46

In life in romantic partnerships,

18:49

I feel like specifically like you can get

18:51

so hurt by them, but that's not your family So you're like I

18:53

can walk away But you're always gonna learn

18:55

something so incredible and if you can

18:57

get past that hurt initially We

19:00

really should be thanking all of our exes

19:02

because it's like even if you cheated

19:04

on me Like I have partners in the past that I had so

19:07

much resentment and anger and

19:09

I look back and I'm like there's so

19:11

much I learned about myself and my

19:13

resilience and my worth

19:15

and it's like had that

19:16

not happened Of course, there's moments

19:18

in life where like I wish no harm on anyone

19:21

But like certain themes that you can take

19:23

find the good part of it Rather

19:25

than feeling so negative and angry because

19:27

mecca's gets us nowhere Yeah, that's

19:30

interesting to hear you talk about like how you connected

19:32

with that person Yeah at first being like

19:34

I'll never talk to you again. And then yeah, wait a second.

19:36

Thank you. Thank you Like

19:39

fucking thank you and I will say

19:41

though I mean, I know it's like sometimes

19:43

with exes cuz I also had an ex

19:46

that was just like

19:46

man I wish I really had this new version

19:49

of you like when we were dating I

19:51

wish that I

19:52

was around that was the person you showed

19:54

me and I was just like yeah

19:56

I I agree, but listen What

20:00

do you want me to say? I wasn't

20:02

ready, I was growing, I needed to grow.

20:04

And I'm sorry. True,

20:09

and it's interesting, but I

20:11

remember an ex I had kind of similar to that, but you

20:13

also wonder,

20:16

but if I was this new version

20:18

of myself, we probably wouldn't have been together.

20:20

Because you were attracted to me then, we ended

20:22

up for some reason. Right? Because we were both toxic

20:25

as hell. As hell, we

20:28

both were toxic. Right.

20:30

So you can wish. Yeah,

20:32

I would definitely would not. This

20:35

new version, I'm not dated. Right.

20:37

You know, that person. I

20:40

love you. Yes. I love you, but

20:42

there's just no way that I could put myself

20:44

back into that sort

20:46

of chaos. Yeah. And

20:49

it's like, again, it's like you're both growing. So for

20:51

him to be even able to see your growth,

20:54

phenomenal. Love it. Amazing. But

20:56

we probably needed to go on

20:59

our own ways to actually get whole and good

21:01

and deal with ourselves.

21:02

And maybe that's just not the right fit,

21:04

but at the time it was. And so we can

21:06

appreciate each other's growth, but we're not going

21:08

to grow together. We grew

21:11

together. And that's a beautiful thing. I always

21:13

want the best for people. Even if we're not together

21:16

as a human, that also helped contextualize

21:18

breakups. It's like, even though we're

21:20

not together, I don't want anything negative to happen

21:22

to you. I don't want you to.

21:24

I don't want anything bad to happen to you.

21:26

As a human, I want the best for you. And

21:28

if that means that it's not with me

21:30

at that time or at that season, then so

21:32

be it. Yeah. If someone's listening

21:35

to this and is like, wow, I really relate

21:37

to you.

21:38

Maybe they had someone in their life that didn't show

21:40

up for them and was constantly neglecting

21:43

to be there and show up. What

21:47

did

21:48

actually working through that childhood

21:51

trauma look

21:54

like for you? Because I can see some

21:56

people like, how do I begin

21:58

to repair this?

21:59

Where do I start?

22:05

I mean, like I said, I just wish everybody

22:07

could afford therapy. But if you can,

22:10

try to get you a good therapist that

22:13

you can just talk freely to, that can help

22:15

you, and don't lie

22:17

to them.

22:19

Don't lie. Be transparent,

22:21

tell the truth.

22:22

Make sure that they're pushing you.

22:26

And

22:28

you need to not be afraid to do the work.

22:31

It's gonna be painful. It's gonna be a lot of tears,

22:33

a lot of crying, a lot

22:36

of just like confusion. But

22:38

just know that you're growing.

22:40

Like you know better, right? You're

22:43

understanding you a lot more. And

22:46

sometimes that feels confusing

22:48

to your body, to your cells, because

22:51

you're literally being rerouted.

22:53

Like the way that your

22:56

mind is being

22:57

rewired. So

23:01

it's gonna feel uncomfortable. But just stay

23:03

the course. Because I promise you that

23:06

if you do the work, there is going to

23:08

be, you're gonna be like, I never thought I would see

23:10

the day. I literally never thought that I would be

23:12

this person. It's like I

23:15

planned, I sort of planned it out. But to live

23:17

it out, and to be living what I

23:19

dreamt about doing, and the freedom

23:22

in which I move. Because it's not that

23:24

like you're not gonna deal with issues

23:26

and problems and

23:27

things like that. But the way that I'm

23:29

so solid with myself now, I

23:31

didn't know, you know, I was

23:35

free, but there are levels to

23:37

it. There are levels to it. So

23:40

just stay the course, and you'll reach the next

23:42

level. I love that advice, because even

23:44

hearing you talk, it's like

23:47

we all reach a point in life when

23:49

we haven't dealt with our shit, where it just starts coming

23:51

up more and more. Relationships

23:53

are failing, friendships are having issues. There's things at

23:55

work, like it just starts to creep up.

23:58

And those are usually the most. where

24:00

in a good way, like you cannot deny you

24:02

need to address it. And I love that you said, it's

24:05

so fucking uncomfortable. But

24:08

you gotta do the work because then you want to be uncomfortable.

24:10

But you're going against something that you literally have been living

24:12

this way your whole life. So you're going against

24:15

the grain. You're going against yourself. Your future

24:17

self is fighting your

24:19

past version, old version of yourself. It's

24:22

like Looper in a sense,

24:25

but different. Anyway.

24:28

You mentioned now that you have a good relationship with

24:30

your father. And I can imagine

24:32

there are people really relating to you today

24:35

also of like, how did you know it was

24:37

time for, that you were going

24:39

to be able to forgive and have an actual relationship

24:42

with your dad?

24:43

I wanted

24:45

it. You gotta want it too. Sometimes you're

24:47

just like, hmm, I don't

24:50

really want a relationship just because you birthed

24:52

or helped bring me into this world. Like

24:54

as a person, you can be like,

24:56

I don't really want this. And

24:58

that's totally fine. I think I wanted

25:00

it. Cause my dad is cool. Like my dad also

25:03

had a music career, but drugs got

25:05

in the way of that. And so me

25:07

and him can talk music. He understands like

25:10

all my favorite artists or his favorite artists. When

25:12

I put out lipstick lover, all of the art that

25:15

I'm doing, my dad supports it. Like he's

25:17

like, I want you to know as your dad,

25:19

I think what you're doing is brave, is

25:22

sick as fuck. I love you. I want you

25:24

to know I got your back. Like

25:27

as a black man in this, living

25:29

in this country, I'm supporting you. My

25:32

queer, non-binary,

25:35

artistic daughter.

25:38

Like I'm here for you. And I

25:40

knew he always had that sort of, that's

25:42

sort of where I get, both my parents are like

25:45

shows. Like they could each have their own TV

25:47

show. And people, they would not

25:49

care about me. They'd be like, your mom and

25:51

your dad, like, you know, they're not

25:54

together because they're very much so

25:56

alike in many ways. You know, they're just

25:58

super like flamboyant. and

26:00

their personalities can take up a room,

26:03

but good, sweet people. So

26:06

with my dad, I always knew that like,

26:10

when it was time to take risks, that was gonna

26:12

be the person that was gonna

26:13

affirm me. And I

26:16

wanted that and I needed that. And also

26:18

for him, I wanted to give him another

26:21

opportunity post, like

26:23

being sober to know me,

26:26

you know, to know me. I think

26:29

that

26:30

for both of us, we needed that. Like I needed to have

26:33

the support of

26:35

my dad. And I

26:38

felt like for him to have been, because

26:40

he had also gone to prison. So he had

26:42

been locked away for years. And I was

26:45

like,

26:46

I want him to come out sober

26:50

and to know what it's like to receive love

26:52

from me. Was that? Not

26:55

guilt.

26:56

How old were you when your dad went to prison? I'm

26:58

timeless. So yeah, it

27:00

doesn't matter how I was alive at

27:03

some point. Yeah, I know. No, but I was,

27:05

this was on and off, you know, middle

27:07

school, elementary school,

27:10

high school, like always. You're

27:12

so successful in so

27:15

many different areas. Like you're an author,

27:17

you're an actor, you're a singer. It's insane

27:19

how talented you are. And I'm thinking, again,

27:22

it's always like, we never know what someone goes through. You

27:25

rising to fame, having

27:27

your father, having

27:30

these struggles, like,

27:32

were you ever just, was

27:34

he still struggling when you first came up

27:36

and started to get famous? Yeah, well, no,

27:39

he was, that's when he sort of got

27:41

clean. So that was great. That

27:43

was good. I needed that right at

27:45

that time. Cause I was going to say like, damn,

27:48

everyone probably seeing you in the tablets and everything,

27:50

like having all this success

27:53

and yet

27:55

you want to repair a relationship with your father

27:57

because there's nothing, everyone

27:59

can relate.

27:59

When you do something so good at work

28:02

or at school or when you want to call your

28:04

parents Yeah, and you because you know, there's

28:06

no one that's going to be more proud of you Yeah,

28:09

and so I appreciate you sharing

28:11

that a little bit because it's like yes, you have all

28:13

this success and but Family

28:16

and again when I say family, I always make sure to clarify

28:18

like I don't care if they're blood like you don't have to Be

28:20

with people that abuse you or whatever whatever

28:22

you're right who your family is to be

28:25

able to repair Relationships

28:27

if you want it Yeah, it is kind

28:29

of beautiful

28:29

because you get to share your life with people

28:32

that love you and support you and there's no jealousy

28:34

It's just like we love you like your mom outside

28:36

the town

28:56

You

29:00

Are very private about

29:02

your dating life. Yeah How

29:04

have you decided to make that decision

29:06

in this crazy Hollywood world that we

29:08

live in? I just did I was like,

29:10

hmm

29:11

Who's watching observing? I was like,

29:13

you know the

29:14

people that actually are more private Seem

29:18

more happy to me

29:20

They just seemed more happy, you know

29:22

because it's like you

29:23

don't have to worry about

29:25

You know anybody

29:28

seeing your partner Over

29:30

here and been like, oh they're not

29:32

they're they they assume

29:35

That if you're not with them And

29:38

they're seeing with somebody else that you broke up

29:40

and now you got to go answer that question You have to go

29:42

do that and perhaps maybe later

29:44

on in life I'll open up a little more

29:47

but for now I love Having

29:50

I love protect and it really is for the protection of of

29:53

of them. Yeah I

29:55

I don't want them to you

29:58

know, because I can handle sort of like like paparazzi

30:01

or whatever, it's annoying sometimes. Sometimes

30:04

it's fun, I love messing with them,

30:06

whatever. But I never want anybody

30:08

that I'm dating to ever feel

30:11

pressure, because they didn't ask

30:13

for it. They didn't ask for it. So I just

30:15

like to keep

30:17

peace and harmony and

30:19

no expectation from the public

30:21

to know our every move. I

30:23

think that's really healthy. And I think in

30:25

a weird way, I do

30:28

always talk about on my show now, I feel like people

30:31

now more than ever can kind of relate to

30:33

a lack of privacy. Even if you

30:35

have 500 followers, we

30:38

have accessibility now to post as

30:40

much as we want. And I think there are

30:43

people that feel societal

30:45

pressure to post my partner

30:47

with me, because it's like there's almost

30:50

social currency that comes with being

30:52

this it couple and having it, whether you're in college

30:54

or high school, this is everywhere now

30:57

where people are feeling pressured

30:59

to prove something on the internet. And

31:01

when you can actually step back from it, I'm not

31:03

saying don't post on the internet, but try

31:05

to find a balance within yourself of why are you actually

31:08

doing this? Why are you doing certain things?

31:10

Is it just to get the photo to prove something to people?

31:13

It's just, it's not as healthy.

31:17

Live some type of privacy is

31:19

really good for yourself. Because then you can also do with yourself,

31:21

do I like this person? Or do I like how I'm doing this?

31:24

Or do I even want to do this? You kind

31:26

of have to make sure you're not just doing it for the

31:28

gram. No, seriously, I think

31:30

because it's the norm to people

31:32

to be like, well, you must post your kids

31:34

and who you're dating. And it's

31:37

sort of like, that's the norm

31:39

these days.

31:41

Definitely, I don't feel like anybody should feel

31:43

pressure. And I think that if you are

31:45

in a relationship where they're like, if you don't

31:47

post me,

31:48

we're done. I've had people,

31:50

we were just talking about this when we were on vacay. And

31:52

there was a question like, would you be upset if

31:57

your partner did not post you on

31:59

social media?

32:00

And there were a lot of mixed questions,

32:03

I mean answers, but I was just like, we

32:06

have to talk about that

32:08

first and foremost. And if

32:10

we agree that we want to keep things private,

32:12

then no,

32:14

but also like, if my love

32:16

is defined by a post,

32:18

you don't post me enough on social media. Like

32:20

I really need to understand

32:23

my own damn, like

32:26

priorities in life. Is that really necessary

32:29

for me? So I just think it's like,

32:32

for me, it's not,

32:34

I do think people should have conversations around

32:36

it prior so that there are no expectations

32:39

and, you know, cause it could hurt somebody's

32:42

feeling too though, if they feel like you're trying to hide

32:44

them, but that's deeper. That's like y'all

32:46

need to really, y'all

32:48

need to really work through some things. No,

32:50

that's true. Cause I'm thinking about it. Like I feel like there

32:52

are some people that also now because

32:55

social media has been like very,

32:57

you

32:57

know, prevalent for the past, I guess, like 10

33:00

something years, people may have been in relationships

33:03

where someone was extremely

33:05

adamant about posting them. And they almost

33:07

found like, when we're good, he posts me.

33:09

When we're not, he doesn't post me. So when you

33:12

go to your next relationship, I bet there are

33:14

some people that have like lingering

33:16

feelings about like, well, why aren't you

33:18

posting me? And someone could literally be like, cause I

33:21

don't think we need to. I love you.

33:23

We're sitting here together. Isn't this better than us taking

33:25

a selfie? So also check in with

33:27

yourself of like, are you comparing yourself to

33:29

your friends or your past relationships? Get

33:31

on the same page as your current partner. They

33:34

may not be being shady at all. They're actually like, no,

33:36

I fucking love you. And I don't feel like we need to, or I want

33:38

to protect you from, you

33:40

know, all of the scrutiny or

33:42

the, you know, just, just

33:44

things like

33:45

that online world, it's its

33:48

own matrix. And yeah, you

33:50

know, it's, it's tough. It's wild.

33:53

What are you like in a relationship?

33:55

Are you romantic? Are

33:58

you dominant? Like what's the vibe?

33:59

live over there. Ooh. That

34:02

was also, we played this game called,

34:05

oh God, I'm gonna,

34:08

I gotta get the name of it.

34:11

Actually, it's a black

34:13

guy who made the game, card game,

34:15

so it's not a lot of us in that space. So

34:17

I really, really have to get the name

34:19

of it. Oh my God, it's the, anyway, one of the cards said-

34:21

I can link it in the description. Okay. If

34:23

you have your team send it, I'll put it- You're so sweet. I got

34:25

it, I got it. How sweet of you. Of course.

34:28

Okay, but one of the questions was like, what would

34:30

your ex say about you?

34:33

And we were just like, everybody was like, ooh,

34:36

wow, that's a good one. I

34:38

feel like now,

34:41

I am, let me

34:43

think, I mean, cause you know, it's like, and

34:45

so the question made me be like, well,

34:48

this is what I think about myself, but what if

34:51

that isn't what they thought about me? Like,

34:54

okay, of course I'm gonna say glowing

34:56

reviews about me, you

34:58

know, or maybe like a couple things that I need to work on,

35:00

but you know, it could have been some other things.

35:03

So for me, if I was being honest in a relationship,

35:05

I mean, I think

35:06

I used to be a very,

35:09

like hard to know if

35:11

I really loved them sort

35:13

of person. Like it was hard to get to

35:15

my heart because I had just been hurt

35:18

and I hadn't really again, dealt with sort

35:20

of that trauma of someone, what

35:22

it would feel like of somebody leaving me. I

35:25

never wanted anybody to leave

35:29

me and if they did, I didn't want them to ever

35:31

feel like,

35:35

I really loved you, you know? Cause

35:37

like, if I really told you that I really

35:39

loved you and we still didn't work, then

35:42

like, wow, what a stab in the heart, right?

35:45

But now having gone to this new

35:47

space,

35:49

I'm a bit communicator.

35:51

I,

35:52

you know, believe in evolution,

35:55

even in your partnerships. And even

35:57

if you started out one way,

35:59

I'm always open to us growing.

36:03

And I wanna make sure that as we grow

36:05

individually and as together,

36:09

I've also been in polyamorous

36:11

relationships as well and I know

36:14

what it's like to be with multiple partners. So

36:17

it's very important that

36:19

we're communicating in real time

36:21

about our feelings and if things

36:23

are coming up, like if one person

36:26

feels like, okay,

36:31

I'm having feelings of jealousy or I need

36:33

some more time with both of you or how do

36:35

we, if we need to work

36:38

on some things,

36:44

I like to know that

36:45

and I always welcome feedback.

36:51

I'm that type of person. Like I don't

36:53

ever wanna be in a relationship where I'm

36:56

thinking we're good and we're not. Like you're wondering,

36:58

like, just let me know because

37:01

I could probably adjust. We could adjust

37:04

perhaps it was a misunderstanding or perhaps

37:06

like, oh, maybe you thought

37:08

you knew me or

37:12

you knew how, you don't know how much

37:14

I love you. I need to be more expressive

37:17

in those things. And so

37:19

I think I'm averse. I

37:23

love it. So I can be dominant,

37:26

sub, like, you know,

37:29

I'm non-binary as well so I can go with the

37:31

flow about

37:33

things. I love it. Meaning like

37:35

I don't just consider myself like

37:38

to be boxed in as like this type of

37:40

partner. Like sometimes you need me to be

37:42

more like water, okay? I need

37:44

to be more like water. You need me

37:46

to be more like a rock for

37:48

us, okay? I'll be more like a rock

37:51

for us. How did

37:53

you know, was there

37:55

like a conversation or did you just

37:57

know the moment when you first had your first polyamorous

37:59

relationship? you have like, how did you know that you

38:01

were comfortable with that dynamic?

38:04

Well, I was already in a relationship and

38:07

the person who was attracted

38:10

to me was also attracted

38:12

to my partner. And so they

38:14

made it very clear and we just made

38:16

it work. Okay.

38:18

Would you continue to have those

38:20

types of relationships again, like are you still interested

38:22

in that or has anything changed? Sure,

38:24

I'm open to love.

38:26

Do you wanna know?

38:28

I think,

38:30

I love going to weddings

38:32

and there are certain traditions that I love and

38:35

congratulations, I know you're engaged. Thank you. So

38:38

I honor love. And I think

38:40

the love comes in

38:42

different variations. And

38:44

that is what I love about

38:46

polyamory is it just shows us like,

38:49

just in the same way, like I don't have just one best friend.

38:52

I have multiple best friends and I love

38:54

y'all. And we love each other and we

38:56

can all hang out. I don't just love one parent.

38:59

I don't just love one aunt.

39:02

Like I love

39:03

all of you and in relationships,

39:08

I think intimate relationships,

39:11

partnerships, I think that if we can

39:13

talk about

39:14

what we need and what works

39:17

for all of us, and I'll tell you, like

39:19

it takes a lot of unlearning because we're

39:22

conditioned, especially in this society,

39:25

that this is what a union looks like.

39:27

This is what,

39:30

it's two people in a relationship. It's

39:35

like, so you're fighting against

39:38

or not fighting against, but you're constantly having

39:41

to unlearn the traditional

39:45

way of what love looks like. And

39:48

so I love to, by being my

39:50

authentic self and us being our authentic selves,

39:53

challenge that notion. I love

39:55

that because what is very frustrating

39:57

and I love having conversations like this on my

39:59

show.

39:59

because you're

40:01

right, we were all raised

40:03

with something that was like, this is the

40:05

norm. And it's like, I'm so happy

40:08

finally. I mean, there's still so much work to

40:10

be done, but like even with sexuality

40:13

and fluidity, it's just like, it's

40:16

very frustrating, I think for people

40:18

that see it so clearly, like let everyone do what they

40:20

wanna do. And then people that are still so stuck

40:22

in the way that they want things

40:25

to have been done for thousands of

40:27

years prior. When you speak about polyamory,

40:30

I can imagine there

40:31

are people that are so judgmental

40:34

of even that word. Like, how do

40:36

you even do that? And like, it's so small-minded

40:38

and it's also like half the people that are saying that

40:41

are speaking from a place of insecurity because

40:43

I've seen people do it and be like, isn't

40:45

he cheating on his wife? And like, it's like,

40:48

there's so much judgment when something

40:50

really frustrates someone, I always

40:52

believe like there's something internally that like is

40:54

getting you going because why do you care so much? But

40:57

how did you, I'm assuming at some

40:59

point, you have dealt with judgment and to anyone

41:01

listening that's also maybe like going

41:03

against the norm, which fuck the norm, let's

41:05

just get everything normal. How did

41:07

you deal with that? Yeah, always,

41:10

always, always, people are intrigued,

41:12

people think,

41:16

I think all sorts of things, but I think education

41:18

is important. I mean, we have the internet,

41:20

people can look things up. And I

41:22

mean, my close friends are super

41:25

supportive. Certain

41:27

family members have been like, hmm. But

41:30

for the most part, my circle

41:32

of people that I have around have been supportive, even

41:34

if they have questions and they wonder like, okay,

41:37

all right. Cause also people are

41:40

trying to figure out, well, hmm, is

41:43

that what I need or what we need?

41:45

Or cause I've definitely

41:47

been cheating on my significant other for

41:50

a very long time, but what if after

41:52

all, we just

41:54

needed a third, we needed somebody

41:56

else, that loved us

41:58

and we love them.

43:59

safe. And so once I got to

44:02

a place where okay, I

44:04

know for sure for sure

44:07

that you know I

44:10

am I am attracted to to to

44:13

you know these

44:15

energies.

44:18

I

44:19

I'm gonna honor that and

44:21

with each project you could you

44:23

can hear me and feel me getting more brave.

44:26

You know I created the

44:29

Android Cindy Mayweather who is representative

44:32

of in

44:32

my work who's representative of

44:35

the other you know the

44:37

queer person the the

44:41

black person the non-binary person

44:44

trans all of all

44:46

of us who are pushed to the margins of society

44:49

and so I use that as a form of

44:51

like a

44:52

form of coping a coping mechanism

44:55

until I was brave enough to actually say it

44:58

and I think I was always dropping hints

45:00

and I was getting more brave and you

45:02

know less afraid and then

45:05

finally because

45:07

also I was in a relationship

45:10

in in what some would say you

45:13

know it's a lot of things like you

45:15

know understanding you know polyamory

45:18

is was something that I wanted to explore well

45:20

if you're already in a relationship you have

45:22

to go have conversations with that person's family

45:24

or what does that mean for you guys and so

45:27

I could not talk publicly about

45:29

certain things because they impacted

45:32

my real everyday life

45:35

you know what I'm saying like when I got off the stage

45:37

I would also have to go see these

45:41

communities that I was a part of and like if

45:44

they heard about it through you know any

45:46

other thing outside of like me saying it

45:49

then what does that mean and I just wasn't ready to have

45:51

those sorts of conversations and

45:53

so I guess to answer your question like you know

45:55

I just got brave over time and

45:58

once I also.

45:59

felt like I had community because the

46:02

albums and the art and music, what

46:04

it also does is the signals like, Hey,

46:07

I'm out here. I'm out here. And then

46:09

you meet people who come to your shows and you meet

46:11

other artists and people, other human too,

46:13

like, or like, Oh, I identify with

46:15

that or I fuck with that. And then we become friends

46:18

and you have a community now

46:20

that supports you, that sees you,

46:23

that even if your family you were born into

46:25

doesn't support you or see you, you

46:28

have support. And so once I felt

46:30

supported and I felt safe enough, that's

46:32

when I started to become even more brave.

46:35

And I,

46:36

um, I started to be courageous

46:39

in the way that I started to live my life. And I think right

46:41

now what I am doing,

46:43

I've done this privately is that I'm

46:45

honoring all of me.

46:47

I'm not closing off,

46:50

you know, my sensuality anymore. I'm not

46:52

closing off my sexuality, my polyamory.

46:55

If you listen to only have eyes 42, you

46:57

know, that's honoring that sort

47:00

of union. Um, if you're

47:02

listening to hot, hot from the age

47:04

of pleasure or champagne shit or even

47:06

float, you know, you know,

47:08

I, I, I'm feeling much lighter now

47:10

and float. I had to let some things go, um, to

47:14

get to this place and fear of

47:16

not being accepted was one of them. And once I got

47:19

over that hump, everything

47:21

started to change for me.

47:24

Community, when you were saying that, like, I hope

47:26

everyone listening, if you're sitting listening to this

47:28

or watching this in your room and you haven't

47:30

been able to fully embrace your sexuality,

47:33

whether it's people around you, you're afraid how they're

47:35

going to accept you. Like there are so many

47:38

people out there that will love you and

47:40

like are so having the same feelings

47:42

as you. And so just don't

47:44

limit yourself to just the people that you've been assigned

47:47

as. Absolutely. Absolutely. It

47:49

gets better. It does. Yep. As you start

47:51

walking whenever you're ready, don't feel pressure too.

47:53

Yeah. Cause

47:54

I mean, there were moments where,

47:56

um, I felt the pressure

47:58

to talk like interview. viewers would, they

48:00

would just speculate based on my parents

48:03

because I was wearing a suit. They were like,

48:05

hmm,

48:06

you're a lesbian. Like that's what I would get.

48:09

You're a lesbian. And you

48:11

know, as I was trying to discover who

48:13

I was and I didn't identify with being

48:16

a lesbian, I, you know, and

48:18

I had lesbian friends. I love my lesbian

48:21

family, but like people would say certain

48:23

things and try to force me to out what

48:25

I was. Well, if you're not a lesbian, then what are you? And

48:28

so I wasn't ready. So don't feel, also

48:30

feel pressured to talk about

48:33

your sexuality. It is a private,

48:36

it can be as private or as public as you want it

48:38

to be. For me, it

48:41

was seeping out into my art so much that

48:43

like,

48:44

I'm like, yeah, this is, this

48:46

is me. This is who I am.

48:49

And I wanted to also free a lot of people who

48:51

were in their rooms, who could be in their rooms right now

48:53

listening, like

48:55

you have family, you

48:58

have a church even outside

49:00

of the church that you went to, if they

49:03

disown you, like there is a big

49:05

church around the world with people

49:07

who will affirm you, people who are like you, your

49:11

identity is not new. Like

49:13

it's been happening. We're here.

49:16

We're showing up for each other.

49:18

And I love you. I love you.

49:20

Yeah. Yeah.

49:36

When I was researching, I read

49:39

somewhere you don't refer to opening up to others

49:41

about your sexuality as coming out, but rather

49:43

coming in. Can you

49:45

explain that? I didn't actually

49:48

come up with that terminology of

49:50

coming in. I just thought it resonated

49:52

with me more. A

49:54

guy by the name of John, I forgot his last

49:56

name, but I heard him say it and

49:58

he, he's a.

49:59

queer black man and I heard him and I was like,

50:02

that's exactly what it is. It

50:04

is bringing people, bringing

50:07

people into our worlds. I'm

50:09

letting you in on who I am

50:12

versus like,

50:14

you guys are the norm

50:16

and I'm just like, hi, I'm

50:18

out here. Like, no,

50:21

I'm letting you in to my world,

50:23

which is sacred,

50:25

which should be respected and appreciated.

50:27

Most certainly not apologetic about it.

50:31

I love that you're so right. Cause it's like, I'm

50:33

letting you in on who I am. I don't, you

50:36

don't deserve me. I don't have to come out to

50:38

you. I don't owe you anything. Exactly. Like

50:40

when I feel comfortable, I'll let you in. Like come clean.

50:43

Yeah.

50:44

You're, come out of the closet. Yeah. I'm

50:47

sorry. I've been here. You just

50:50

must not have seen me or I'm not

50:53

even, you must not have seen

50:55

me. You must think that

50:57

you and your, or you know what? Let's

51:00

not even talk about that. Nope. I was going to go down

51:02

a whole stream. No, no, no, I could too. I could

51:04

too. How about this? Do you have a mantra

51:07

you come back to when it comes to people who actively

51:09

do not agree with the way

51:11

that you live? Ooh. Yeah,

51:14

I do. I have so much. I wish I had my phone

51:16

with me,

51:19

but I think it comes down to power. You

51:21

know, I think like when

51:24

you give your power up to folks like

51:26

people's opinions have more power

51:28

over you than how you feel about you. That's,

51:31

I think where things take that

51:33

turn where the depression sets

51:36

in, where the constant need for approval

51:39

comes in. And I think I'm a powerful

51:41

ass motherfucker.

51:42

You know, really just as you're

51:46

powerful, we're all powerful, right?

51:48

We all hold gifts

51:50

that we have. And I think that,

51:53

you know, again, how I think about myself

51:56

has to

51:58

be more powerful than someone else.

51:59

someone who is trying to take me down through

52:02

their negativity, who

52:03

is trying to oppress me

52:06

through their fear.

52:07

My power and my love for myself

52:10

is greater than that.

52:13

Mic drop. Yeah. Mic

52:16

drop. What is something when it comes to dating and

52:18

love that you know now that you

52:20

wish you knew when you were younger?

52:24

Sheesh.

52:25

Man,

52:28

I would say, I wish

52:30

I had discovered vibrators a long

52:33

time ago. Honestly, it's

52:35

so fun to experience that with your partner. It's

52:38

phenomenal. It's so great. It's like,

52:41

what? Going to the sex shop? I remember

52:43

when I first went,

52:44

see again when you come from those sort of conservative

52:47

backgrounds, a sex shop. I

52:50

was full sunglasses

52:52

on. Do not have me in here. Oh

52:55

my God. What am I? Oh my God.

52:58

Please. Nobody take photos of me. Like

53:00

I did not know. I did not know the world of vibrators.

53:03

I did not know the clitoral

53:06

stimulation that you and

53:08

the fun y'all can have with one. You

53:11

know, it doesn't necessarily have to be penetration.

53:13

It's life changing. Right? How

53:16

about you? I remember I didn't

53:18

have one and my friend bought me one for my birthday

53:21

in college and I remember

53:23

like the first time I tried something was the back

53:26

of my electric toothbrush. And

53:28

I was like, I ain't going to front the electric toothbrushes.

53:31

If you forget,

53:33

just go buy you a brand new one. It

53:35

slaps. It's got me through. It's

53:37

got me through. It is a lifesaver.

53:40

And so I felt the same way though of my

53:43

friend got me my first one and then I

53:44

was like, oh my God,

53:47

like I never have to have sex again. Like

53:49

this is amazing. Right. It allowed

53:51

me to recognize that like I hold

53:53

the power of like my own orgasm and like

53:55

I don't need someone else to make me

53:57

feel amazing. Like I can do it myself.

53:59

because being taught, like we grow

54:02

up and it's just like the men will do this

54:04

for you and like you and I'm like, why am I gonna

54:06

wait for a motherfucker to give me an orgasm? Like this is

54:08

amazing. Don't wait for

54:10

a man or anyone to give you, you can do it yourself.

54:13

So I remember I felt the same way in New York. I remember

54:15

the first sex shop I went to with my friend.

54:18

I was not famous,

54:20

but I was mortified just being like, I just can't

54:23

make eye contact. And I think that just comes

54:25

from like shame of like we're not normalizing,

54:28

like exploring your sexuality and enjoying,

54:31

especially as women, like enjoying sex,

54:33

loving sex, being connected with your body.

54:36

And I think it's so important that we start to have

54:38

those conversations at younger ages, obviously

54:40

in a safe way, but like, especially for

54:42

young girls, you just start to like feel shame

54:45

and like you're doing something wrong. And that's

54:47

why so many women, I truly believe

54:49

like we have such a hard time in the beginning, like figuring

54:52

out what works for us and knowing how to like

54:54

get off because we were like, it was basically

54:56

like, don't touch yourself, you're a whore,

54:58

you're a slut. And it's like, what?

55:00

Or you're a deviant or like touching yourself,

55:03

gross. You know, like if it

55:05

was not,

55:06

you go get a boyfriend and y'all

55:09

wait, but don't have sex actually until

55:11

you're married. So go marry

55:14

to have sex. Like I have cousins who

55:16

actually married

55:18

women just to have sex because

55:20

they were just like, God won't, it's

55:23

a lie. And I will always just

55:25

like, you know, say

55:28

like my

55:31

heart goes out to those

55:33

of us who have

55:35

clitorises and

55:38

just not just those of us who are with

55:40

clitorises, even, you know, for those of us

55:42

who

55:44

have penises or whatever it is, the

55:46

pleasure that we can give ourselves

55:48

like how that was stripped away from us. I

55:53

just hope that we can reconnect again with our

55:55

bodies and reclaim our bodies. That's the space

55:57

that I'm in. Like I am reclaiming.

55:59

my sensuality, my

56:02

sexuality, my pleasure. Like

56:05

unapologetically, like I'm not apologizing

56:09

for talking about it, for

56:11

taking time to myself

56:14

to make up for lost times. I mean, I think I could have avoided

56:16

a lot of

56:18

just even sexual interactions with people

56:20

who I didn't really like, but

56:22

I just was like, well, this

56:24

is the only way that I can

56:27

feel less shame about sex

56:29

as if I do it with this person. But

56:31

like that leads to so much confusion

56:33

sometimes if you don't really, really, really like this

56:36

person and they don't really, really like you. And it's

56:38

a whole thing. And so I think you actually avoid,

56:44

you have less stress when you

56:46

take matters into your own hands, literally.

56:49

Absolutely. Okay, everyone

56:51

listening today, we are entering our

56:53

era of the art of pleasure. Okay, we're

56:55

taking it into our own hands. Yes, we are. I

56:58

know we've been kind of like essentially

57:00

talking about this whole episode because

57:02

we're talking about pleasure and

57:04

finding our own voices to find that pleasure. But

57:07

what has been the most rewarding

57:09

part of making this soundtrack

57:11

for you? Yeah, I mean, just

57:14

like, you know, we're talking about, it's a soundtrack

57:16

to a lifestyle. And I think so many people

57:19

that I'm hearing, that's why I can't wait to go on

57:21

tour. I'm on tour. Our

57:24

first show is in Seattle, the end of August.

57:26

We're on tour. So get your tickets. We

57:28

have some more, a little bit more available,

57:30

but they're selling out right now. And I'll be on

57:33

tour in North America through October

57:35

21st, the Age of Pleasure Tour.

57:38

And so to see how people are

57:40

like

57:41

making this their album, owning

57:45

it and like with

57:47

their friends, I see them just

57:50

certain songs. They're like, oh my God, you're

57:52

speaking to my heart. Like

57:55

I needed to hear float. I

57:57

needed to give myself permission.

57:59

to let things go

58:02

and to go into a stage of

58:05

what Hot is talking about. I look good, I

58:07

look sexy, I look handsome. Non-binary

58:11

folks are feeling seen, trans folks are being

58:13

seen. The community in which

58:15

I intended for it to be, and even outside

58:17

of that, I think that you don't necessarily have

58:19

to be a part of my community to

58:23

vibe with it. I think that what

58:25

it just represents is like, even in

58:27

the midst of chaos, you gotta find your

58:29

pleasure.

58:30

You have to make time for

58:33

yourself. And I actually brought you

58:35

something. What? What?

58:39

Oh my God. Official age

58:42

of pleasure first, I cut mine. I was gonna

58:44

say, it's so cute. No, it's so cute,

58:46

you know I'm gonna do this. Like, it's so

58:48

cute. I wanted to bring you. This

58:52

is so sweet. A shirt. You

58:55

need another size. No, this is so

58:57

good. I'll give you another one. No, can

59:00

I cut it like you?

59:00

Yes, cut it like me. I'm just copying

59:03

you. But I've been staring at it and like, it's such

59:05

a, it's yours. Thank you. I

59:07

adore you. It's so dope. I

59:10

wanted to bring you a hand.

59:14

This is so good. I'm gonna say, hand. A

59:16

hand written autographed

59:18

letter, that's what I mean to say. I autographed

59:21

you a copy of my book that I released

59:23

in 2021 called The Memory of

59:26

the Librarian.

59:28

Thank you, Sora. The other story of Dirty Computer.

59:31

And yes, this is bringing

59:34

the gifts, right? Girl, I know

59:36

you just got back from vacation. I

59:38

did. Like, you're giving us all, you're getting us in

59:40

our fields. We're all ready to go have sex

59:42

with our song. Come on. We got a book, we got a

59:44

shirt. Come on. Okay, to anyone

59:47

that is like, you gotta tell us,

59:49

what is, if you have to pick, what

59:52

is your favorite song on the soundtrack?

59:55

Ooh, shoot. Wow.

59:58

Everyone's gonna go listen to this one. It's so

1:00:01

okay. It varies because

1:00:04

all of a man. I mean I hate

1:00:07

to say it but it's it's um

1:00:10

It's not a long album. I usually put out like

1:00:12

excuse me like double albums and with this one

1:00:14

I wanted you to want to replay it over and

1:00:17

over and over again. I didn't want to excuse me I didn't

1:00:19

want it to be too long because

1:00:21

this one was just on um

1:00:24

president barack obama's Song

1:00:27

of summer

1:00:28

only have eyes 42 42 So

1:00:32

listen to that one. I mean, but I love every

1:00:34

last song on this project I'm having a hard time

1:00:36

like figuring out what songs we're

1:00:38

gonna play on tour I think I might have to just play all of

1:00:41

them. I don't know but because I love

1:00:44

I also thought about them from a live

1:00:46

perspective and just Yeah,

1:00:49

how fun is gonna be to perform? Champagne

1:00:52

shit and it's gonna be insane. I don't

1:00:55

know what songs were you vibing to what are some of your favorite?

1:00:59

Um, is it called phenomenal? I

1:01:01

really like that one like featuring doji.

1:01:04

Yeah, it's a vibe. We're like

1:01:06

I don't know. I really like that one like but

1:01:09

again I it feels like it's a story

1:01:11

that's being told and you're just like it's almost

1:01:13

like an anthem vibe where you're just like Vibing

1:01:15

the whole time. So I I agree I guess

1:01:18

I couldn't like pick one too because you

1:01:20

almost have to like listen to it all together Like start to finish

1:01:22

like feel it because the dry red is good

1:01:24

the last song I love um

1:01:28

I when I was writing this album, I wrote it with

1:01:30

friends I got to give a shout out to nate rocket wonder

1:01:33

to bueno to nana quabana and also

1:01:36

the features

1:01:36

Like some of my favorite

1:01:39

things is just to look down and be like, okay.

1:01:41

Grace jones is literally on this album You

1:01:44

know sister nancy who is like Bomb

1:01:47

bomb, you know, we can't go anywhere at

1:01:49

a party without hearing her jamaican

1:01:53

influence patra her

1:01:55

jamaican influence when

1:01:57

I think about

1:01:59

Nia Long who is

1:02:01

an incredible actress coming and being a part

1:02:03

of it. Amare, Dochi, who

1:02:05

else?

1:02:08

Fela, Kuti-san, Shaehyun Kuti,

1:02:12

lots of horns on this project, CKs

1:02:15

on this project. I don't

1:02:17

know, it's just so

1:02:19

like such a beautiful love letter to

1:02:21

the diaspora and to to

1:02:25

music that again has gotten

1:02:27

us through. A lot

1:02:29

of the influences come from

1:02:32

a lot of my friends who were in,

1:02:34

who are from Nigeria at our parties,

1:02:36

Ghana, South Africa,

1:02:39

LA, New York, Atlanta,

1:02:43

all of us coming together and

1:02:45

feeling safe, safe enough

1:02:47

to explore, safe enough to be.

1:02:51

Janelle, I can't thank you enough for coming and call her daddy.

1:02:53

This was truly such a pleasure. I'm

1:02:55

so happy I got to sit in the same room with you

1:02:57

and feel your energy. Thank you. Thank you.

1:03:00

You are fantastic, Alex. Thank you so

1:03:02

much for having me and all the beautiful

1:03:04

work you do. Like I don't

1:03:07

really love doing lots of interviews,

1:03:09

but you have a very great

1:03:12

way of connecting human to human

1:03:14

with folks. And I'm sure people tell you that a lot, but

1:03:17

I'll just say like, I feel your

1:03:19

aura and your energy through

1:03:21

the screen and

1:03:23

just congratulations on everything. Thank you. You're

1:03:25

fantastic. Thank you. You're lovely. Thank you.