0:03

Hello and welcome to episode six

0:06

of Call of the Wild. The podcast

0:08

from WWF with yours truly,

0:11

Cel Spellman. Where I look to find out

0:13

about the threats to our planet and more importantly,

0:15

how we can fight back. Well

0:18

guys, for our final,

0:21

that's right, final episode

0:23

my friends, we're going to do things a little bit different.

0:25

We're going to pivot a little bit. Because instead

0:27

of looking at a problem that needs fixing, we're

0:29

going to look at something that can make a real change

0:32

for good. Something we're hearing more

0:34

and more about, rewilding. A bit

0:37

of hope and positivity to end the series

0:39

on something that can actually

0:41

make a massive difference. One of those nature

0:43

based solutions that really can

0:45

help us turn the tide on fighting the climate

0:48

crisis. Now,

0:50

I'm sad to say, we have lost so much

0:52

of our beautiful wildlife and natural

0:54

green spaces right here in the UK.

0:57

But it doesn't have to be a one- way street.

1:00

We really can bring back some of the wilderness

1:02

we have lost and that can have a huge

1:04

positive impact on our environment.

1:06

And of course, those wildlife species as well,

1:09

that need those green spaces so much.

1:12

In this episode, I'm going to be joined

1:14

by some fantastic guests. I'll

1:17

be joined by the wonderful Poppy Okotcha

1:19

for her story about why she left the

1:21

bright lights of a modeling career and became

1:23

a gardening sensation.

1:25

It didn't take long for me to kind of get

1:27

to a point where I was just really emotionally and physically burned

1:30

out. Don't get me wrong. There's

1:32

also good, exciting, fun,

1:34

beautiful people in the fashion industry. But on the whole,

1:36

as a system, it just is broken.

1:38

I'll also be chatting with David Lindow, also

1:41

known as the urban birder, on how to connect

1:43

with nature in the city.

1:45

And it is a bit like meditation. It's spending 10

1:47

minutes in a day, blotting out the sounds of

1:50

the human hubbub. You know,

1:52

the police sirens and dogs

1:54

barking and people shouting and just... You cut

1:56

all that stuff out and eventually you start hearing

1:59

the natural sounds. And it's not

2:01

something you can come overnight. You need to work at it. But

2:03

once it does come, you got it.

2:05

Plus, along with all of that, we'll be getting all

2:07

your best tips to bring the wild back

2:09

into your life...

2:14

So, rewilding, it means

2:16

different things to different people. It's got

2:19

a scientific meaning. We've heard the great

2:21

Sir David Amber, talk about the need to rewild the

2:23

world to help increase its biodiversity.

2:26

But also a lot of people use it in

2:28

a way to mean something much broader and easier.

2:30

So, let's break it down before we get

2:33

into the good stuff.

2:36

The UK used to be hosts to a

2:38

very different animal on some bull.

2:41

Just a few hundred years ago, we

2:43

had white tailed eagles, wolves,

2:46

and wild boars all roaming

2:48

around Britain. But, because

2:51

of people, these animals were wiped

2:53

out. And when you take an animal

2:55

out of an ecosystem, this can have

2:57

a huge knock on effects to how that system

2:59

functions. If a predator

3:02

disappears, prey species

3:04

can multiply and get out of control

3:06

and destroy vegetation and even impact

3:09

carbon storage, flood risks, and soil

3:11

quality. Other species

3:13

can be vitally important as pollinators.

3:16

So, remove them and you remove

3:18

any plants that needed them to reproduce.

3:21

Potentially, plants that we rely on

3:23

for food. So, can

3:25

bringing back the species we've lost help

3:27

our natural environments thrive? This

3:30

is one type of rewilding. Reintroductions

3:33

of important species and if

3:35

it goes well, you can reap some serious

3:38

benefits. One of the most

3:40

well- known examples of this type of rewilding

3:42

is Yellowstone National Park in America,

3:45

who had lost their wolves. Without

3:47

a predator, deer and elk numbers were

3:49

out of control, over- grazing the trees,

3:52

This, in turn, meant songbirds disappeared

3:54

and beavers couldn't build their dams. Which

3:57

then meant the rivers were eroding the

3:59

land more than usual. But

4:01

the introduction in 1995

4:03

of just 14 wolves has

4:06

changed the landscape entirely.

4:08

In decades, the trees recovered.

4:10

Beavers and songbirds returned and

4:12

river erosion, stabilized. But

4:15

introducing big predators isn't

4:18

appropriate for every species or

4:20

in every landscape. If

4:22

an animal has been gone long enough or

4:24

is brought into a place without a proper

4:26

understanding of its needs, the ecosystem

4:29

may actually be damaged by its re- introduction.

4:32

And if there are lots of people around,

4:35

introducing apex predators can

4:37

obviously have some issues. But

4:40

this is not the only form rewilding

4:42

can take. It can simply mean

4:44

restoring the natural flow of rivers and

4:46

wetlands or just leaving a space

4:48

to thrive on its own without intensive management.

4:52

And this is something that can be done anywhere,

4:54

on any scale. We could all

4:56

help nature to thrive by bringing back

4:59

a bit of the wild inside our own

5:01

community.

5:03

So, rewilding can be this

5:05

big, exciting, green restorative

5:08

project. From restoring

5:10

the natural flow of rivers to bringing in species

5:12

back to their old habitats. For example,

5:15

the UK has recently had very successful

5:17

beaver re- introduction trials. But,

5:21

I don't know about you. I don't have any beavers

5:23

to hand. So, today in

5:25

this episode, we're going to be focusing

5:27

on the other type of rewilding. The

5:29

type where we just let nature thrive

5:31

and do its thing. We let nature

5:33

do what it does best. And this

5:35

can be on any scale. However much space

5:37

you have, it is possible to give nature

5:40

a chance and give nature a big

5:42

old boost. But let's find out a bit

5:44

more about what this can actually look

5:46

like and more importantly, why

5:48

and how we should be connecting with the wild

5:51

in our lives. Now, this can

5:53

be especially difficult for those of us in cities.

5:55

There's about 80 percent of the population,

5:58

here in the UK, that call a city their home.

6:00

So, luckily for you, don't say I don't

6:03

look after you, we are joined by

6:05

the urban birder, AKA David

6:07

Lindow. Now, he knows all about

6:09

the wonderful wildlife we have in our

6:11

own backyard. So, I sat down with

6:13

him to talk about how we can best connect with

6:16

it in a way that benefits both us and

6:18

nature.

6:21

It's fascinating because when you think that

6:24

in the UK, there's been what? Six hundred and twenty different

6:27

types of birds discovered or on

6:29

the record since records began.

6:32

Around about 95% have

6:34

turned up in urban areas. And when

6:37

you look at London, there's 370,

6:40

I think, species on that list. I've

6:43

always lived by the, the motto

6:45

that anything can turn up anywhere or at any time.

6:48

And the moment you kind of get past

6:50

thinking that it's only about pigeons

6:53

and you open your mind to the idea that anything

6:55

can turn up, you can see anything. It's

6:57

not even a case of going to park. It's just

6:59

walking out of your door and nature's

7:01

there. Even if you live in the middle of the city.

7:03

It doesn't matter. Because that's what we need

7:06

to get into our heads. That it is

7:08

all around us. And for me,

7:10

it's about getting on to the wavelength. It's spending

7:13

10 minutes in the day, and

7:16

it is a bit like meditation. It's spending 10 minutes

7:18

in a day blotting out the sounds of the

7:20

human hubbub. You know, the

7:23

police sirens and dogs barking

7:25

and people shouting and just... You cut all that stuff

7:27

out and eventually you start hearing the natural

7:29

sounds. And it's not something you can come

7:32

overnight. You need to work at it. But once it does

7:34

come, you got it.

7:36

Biodiversity. I think it's a word

7:38

that is definitely kind of growing

7:41

when it comes to the conversation around climate

7:43

and particularly, the climate crisis.

7:46

For you, obviously, wherever, obviously everything's

7:48

intrinsically linked from the birds in the sky, to the

7:50

worms in the soil, and then the soil quality to

7:52

the trees. I wanted to ask

7:54

you, David, from your understanding and how,

7:56

you know, you spending a lot of time in nature, what

7:58

have we done to our biodiversity, particularly,

8:01

in the UK? You know, have you seen signs

8:03

that kind of upset you in a way and go, "

8:05

That's not... That's not good."

8:08

In many respects, we've trashed

8:10

a lot of what we've got. You

8:13

know we've got rid of all of the apex

8:15

predators, for example. It's very sad.

8:17

OUr countryside, some

8:19

of it I wouldn't even call countryside personally,

8:22

because it's been sprayed within an inch

8:24

of his life with pesticides and insecticides.

8:27

And I walk around in

8:30

places like Southeastern

8:33

Europe or even Northeastern Europe or even where

8:35

I am now, in Spain and

8:38

their use of pesticides is a lot different

8:41

to ours. And as a consequence,

8:44

there's so much more wildlife. And

8:46

they walk through... down

8:48

a lane, in Astonia or Serbia,

8:50

and you're seeing a whole ton of stuff. You've seen things

8:53

that you probably would have seen 200 years ago in

8:55

the UK. And then I come back

8:57

to the UK and sometimes,

9:00

it's quite depressing walking through the countryside

9:02

in the very coms because it's quiet.

9:04

There's nothing much going on compared to what

9:07

it should be. And that's the same in most

9:09

of Western Europe as well,

9:10

We're here, obviously, kind of, talking about rewilding,

9:13

which means different things to different people,

9:15

in essence, of course. Well, I think one of the big things

9:18

we need to do to combat climate change is literally

9:20

rewild the world. You know? Whatever that

9:22

might be. I guess, for yourself,

9:24

David, what does rewilding mean to

9:26

you and in involve?

9:28

For me, rewilding is an interesting concept. I think it's a... In general, it's a great concept

9:34

and it doesn't necessarily mean

9:36

in the middle of nowhere. You can also make

9:39

urban areas much more natural

9:42

than they are now. I mean stop cutting

9:44

the road verges. You know, leave the round abouts to grow.In terms of the grass and the round about, don't

9:48

carve it down within an inch of its

9:51

life. You know, have a garden, if

9:53

you do have one, and have an area of wilderness

9:56

in it. 'Cause even a square

9:59

foot is like a jungle

10:01

to a small beetle or caterpillar

10:04

and that's how you got to think about it. Not in our terms,

10:06

but in terms of what you're creating these spaces

10:08

for.

10:08

What about in cities then as well? If we walk

10:11

out in central London and it's very gray

10:13

and concrete and pavements and busy, how do you think we

10:16

can go about almost making them wild

10:18

spaces again, making them greener?

10:20

I think a lot of people think of rewilding as something

10:22

that happens over there, out of, out of

10:24

the way, away from where I can see it. And

10:27

you know, I'll never see your links or whatever. But

10:29

rewilding actually starts from your doorstep.

10:32

You know, you can plant stuff in your

10:34

garden. You can encourage things to grow in

10:36

your local park and you will get

10:39

a whole host of animals coming

10:42

who may not have necessarily been there before.

10:44

You know? Butterfly species, for example,

10:46

or moths or you know, other species

10:48

that show up. Because if you introduce

10:50

all that stuff, then it's going to just make things

10:53

better generally for everything. And

10:55

it'll be more of an opportunity for

10:58

creatures to recolonize naturally.

11:00

You grew up in West

11:02

London, as you said and there'll be lots of people, and I

11:05

come across it a lot you know, when speaking

11:07

around these things go, " Yeah. But it's easier if you

11:09

have access to the green spaces in the parks.

11:11

It's not easy for me, you know, if I live in an

11:14

apartment block or maybe in

11:16

a densely populated city." What would you say

11:19

to them? You know, for people who don't have gardens or

11:21

those kinds of spaces to kind of do these things.

11:23

What tips have you found or do you think... would you

11:26

say to those people?

11:28

Well, I think if you can find

11:30

somewhere, there must be a park

11:32

around the corner, then

11:34

make that your local patch.

11:37

Even if it looks not very

11:39

inviting in terms of wildlife,

11:42

you may be surprised as to what

11:44

you will eventually start seeing. And

11:47

once you go to your park on a regular basis,

11:50

you may meet other people. You may

11:52

decide form a friends off society,

11:54

if there hasn't been one before. You may

11:56

join a local wildlife trust, whatever,

11:59

and incorporate the

12:02

conservation work into the area that you

12:04

actually visit. And I think it's really

12:06

rewarding and you have a great

12:08

sense of ownership and also love

12:10

when you realize, what you're seeing

12:13

and you've actually helped to, to

12:15

encourage what that wildlife

12:17

there...

12:18

What are the benefits for people that

12:21

might not of realized yet of doing that, of

12:23

being out in nature? You know, of, like you say, it's almost

12:25

a little bit mediative in a way. What

12:27

do you... What are the benefits for you, David?

12:29

To have nature around you is, is a

12:31

very good thing. Not just for nature,

12:34

but for our well being of

12:36

our health. You know, for, for a

12:38

whole host of reasons. I think that we'll be

12:40

getting a lot more pleasure

12:43

from life. I think, you know,

12:45

wake up in the morning and hearing all sorts of different things

12:47

going on and seeing much more in your garden

12:49

and being aware of stuff when you're walking

12:51

around, will make life so much

12:54

better. And I think... I think people

12:56

sometimes who aren't aware

12:58

of nature don't associate themselves

13:00

with nature, don't realize just

13:03

how much a part of nature they are. And

13:05

they take for granted what they have,

13:07

the food they have, and all that sort of stuff, because

13:09

it comes from the supermarket. The more

13:12

we trash our world, the less insects they are, the

13:15

less bees. And I think they'll

13:18

see the fact banded around now. But if we lost

13:20

that, our bees then we

13:23

will go down the plug fairly quickly afterwards.

13:27

Oh, what an absolute gent, such

13:29

a cool guy and it really was a delight to

13:31

talk to the man himself, David Lindow

13:34

AKA the urban birder. And

13:36

his book, How to Be An Urban Birder

13:38

is out now. Now,

13:42

for those of you, who have been with us every step

13:44

of this journey so far we'll know, this

13:47

is the part of the show where we would usually

13:49

talk to someone who is impacted by a part

13:51

of the climate crisis. But this

13:53

time for rewilding, we're doing something a little bit

13:55

different. We're going to hear from

13:57

someone who has been on the rewilding journey

14:00

for quite a long time and can give

14:02

us a real insight into the positive change

14:04

that can come from it. It is

14:06

my absolute pleasure to introduce

14:08

to you Isabella Tree, author

14:11

of wilding. She and her

14:13

husband have massively changed their farm

14:15

into a rewilding success story

14:17

known as, Knepp Wildland.

14:20

So we wanted to hear about what that journey was

14:22

like and the amazing results they

14:24

had.

14:24

Knepp estate is

14:27

a three and a half thousand acre rewilding

14:30

project. It is essentially allowing

14:32

nature of the time and the space

14:35

to reveal itself and to get natural

14:37

processes bouncing back into action.

14:39

To be absolutely honest, the first

14:42

inspiration for it, doesn't sound very

14:44

romantic or altruistic, was

14:46

financial. We just weren't making

14:48

money farming this land. That

14:50

meant that we wanted to do something

14:53

working with the land rather than battling against

14:55

it. It's only now

14:58

that we've been on this rewilding journey,

15:00

that we look back and realize how

15:03

much we had got wrong when we were farming.

15:07

The very first thing we noticed when we

15:09

started this project, the year after,

15:12

we just stopped farming and we stopped

15:14

pouring chemicals on the land, was

15:16

the sound of insects. It was something

15:18

we hadn't even noticed we were missing. But

15:20

to go out there now, on a morning,

15:22

the riot of Birdsong is

15:25

so loud that you can feel

15:27

it literally reverberating in your stomach

15:29

and your lungs. This area

15:31

of land, which previously, was totally

15:34

insignificant for wildlife, has

15:36

now become one of the most significant areas for

15:38

nature in Britain. We've got some of our rarest species

15:40

turtle doves, nightingales purple

15:43

and blue butterflies, peregrine, falcons, you

15:45

name it. I mean, all this life has

15:47

poured back onto our land. So,

15:50

you feel it's humming, thrumming,

15:52

singing with life and that's only

15:54

in a matter of 20 years, it's quite astonishing.

15:58

But when you walk out into the project,

16:00

it's really interesting. People find it very difficult

16:03

to describe because we're... They're so unused

16:05

to seeing this sort of habitat in the UK.

16:07

We haven't had it really for, for hundreds,

16:10

if not thousands of years and since...

16:12

probably since the medieval hunting forests.

16:15

It's thorny, scrub. It's wetland.

16:17

It's very dynamic. You shift from

16:19

one habitat to another on a short walk

16:22

and you're following animal trails all the

16:24

time. So, it really feels

16:27

like you're in the land,

16:29

belonging to animals again. It almost

16:31

feels like a cheetah or a leopard could jump

16:33

out at you from around the corner. We've,

16:36

we've doubled our carbon content. We've tripled

16:38

our microsomal fungi we've tripled

16:41

soil biota. But also

16:43

all that vegetation is also sequestering

16:46

carbon. So we've gone from being

16:48

a net carbon emitter, huge

16:50

one under industrial agriculture,

16:53

to being a really significant carbon sink.

16:56

But we're also doing other things like flooding mitigation.

16:59

So areas downstream from

17:01

us that always used to flood in, in

17:03

intense rain, no longer flood.

17:07

The wonderful thing about rewilding is you don't

17:09

have to do anything. You do

17:11

as little as possible in terms of management.

17:13

So, it's not hard work. And

17:15

from the outside, perhaps it looks like

17:17

you're being lazy or irresponsible.

17:19

And certainly one of the hardest things in the beginning

17:22

was the criticism we had from neighbors

17:24

and farmers who saw our land

17:26

transforming and found it

17:28

very difficult to live alongside.

17:31

I think the real story

17:34

of Knepp has been how

17:36

quickly nature can bounce back if

17:38

you let it. And if you do it in

17:40

the right way, then extraordinary things

17:43

begin to happen in a very short space

17:45

of time. It's possible anywhere.

17:47

If it can happen here underneath the Gatwick Stacking

17:49

System, surrounded by a roads and densely

17:52

populated Southeast of England, it can really

17:54

happen anywhere. And one

17:56

of the ways of doing that of course, is to

17:58

get messy, is to forget about

18:01

being such control, freaks that we are and just,

18:04

just let things go a bit.

18:07

A massive thank you to Isabella

18:09

Tree. I mean we could not have had a rewilding

18:11

episode without speaking to one of the rewilding

18:14

queens in the UK herself.

18:16

And I will definitely be getting myself

18:18

down to Knepp for a look at the project as

18:20

soon as I can. Now,

18:27

the brilliant, insightful guests, just keep

18:30

her rolling in here on this episode.

18:32

Because now I am so, so

18:34

excited to introduce you

18:36

to Poppy Okotcha. Poppy

18:39

used to work as a model for places like

18:41

Zara or names like Vivian Westwood.

18:44

But, something happened

18:46

that made her change her entire life

18:48

and become a gardener. So, I

18:50

wanted to find out about what led her to this decision

18:53

and also, in case either mentioned, as

18:55

a keen allotment grower myself, harvest

18:57

all the tips I could get about being green.

19:02

My earliest memories, even though I

19:04

was in an urban sprawl in London,

19:06

are of holding snails

19:09

on my hand or my mum pointing at the butterflies

19:11

and the Buddleia Bush, that sort of thing, like

19:13

getting lost in bushes and

19:16

the park and stuff. And I think that that kind of

19:18

speaks so much of how

19:22

the natural world just always seems to stand

19:24

out. I think for kids, for adults,

19:26

for everybody, it just like, no matter where

19:28

you are, you end up kind of gravitating towards

19:31

it. And then as I grew up,

19:33

I kind of drifted from all of that kind

19:35

of stuff as you do when you're a teenager for the

19:38

angst. And then I, yeah,

19:40

I kind of ended up modeling

19:42

and at a certain point, things just

19:45

didn't add up anymore.

19:47

And that's when I kind of reentered

19:50

interacting with the natural world and really meaningful

19:52

way and when I trained in horticulture.

19:54

When you say, kind of, " Things didn't adds up," can you remember whether it, was a specific point or was there

19:59

a thing that kind of made you go, " Do you know what?

20:02

This actually isn't vibrating with me,

20:04

I kind of need to go and find something else and..."

20:06

Was there a specific point or was it... Did it just kind of happen naturally.

20:07

Working in

20:10

fashion is like such

20:12

a fast pace world. It's driving

20:15

consumerism. So, of course, you're producing

20:17

at an insane rate and

20:20

it didn't take long for me to kind of get

20:22

to the point where I was just really emotionally and physically

20:24

burnt out. Don't get me wrong.

20:26

There's also good, exciting,

20:28

fun, beautiful people in the fashion

20:30

industry. But on the whole, as a system, it just

20:32

is broken. I kind of needed

20:35

to find a way that I could get my

20:37

body back up to health and my

20:39

emotional wellbeing back up to health. And

20:42

while I was kind of exploring how to

20:44

nurture my body, food just kept coming

20:46

up, up and up and up. And in tandem with

20:48

that, I was also understanding more about the climate

20:50

emergency and how

20:53

food has a huge impact

20:55

on that. And so, I was kind of looking at

20:57

how I could heal my body, trying to figure

20:59

out how I could have a positive impact on planetary

21:02

health and the solution to both those things

21:04

was food.

21:05

What were some of the biggest kind of, I

21:07

guess, eureka moments or you...

21:09

that you had when moving into kind

21:11

of studying horticulture and really kind

21:13

of getting to grips with the soil, so to speak?

21:16

It was about the fact that we're

21:18

losing top soil at such an alarming

21:20

rate that we have a very limited number

21:22

of growing cycles left in our

21:24

soils. And that to me was like, "

21:27

Oh, my God. Why are we not talking about this

21:29

more? Like, how is it possible that we're using

21:32

the soil? Like, something that we think of

21:34

is just as infinitely giving thing." We don't

21:36

even think about much at all to be honest because it's underneath

21:38

our feet. The fact that, that is sustaining

21:40

us and we're even using

21:42

that up and mistreating

21:45

that. So, that was a big kind of wake up call.

21:47

Where I was like, " I want to learn about how we can do

21:49

this without causing that level of damage."

21:51

Which it is possible to do and

21:54

I think so often the climate

21:56

emergency can feel like so

21:59

overwhelming. But when you realize

22:01

that there's that much power in the soil,

22:03

in a plant pot or in your back garden,

22:05

it's just so empowering.

22:08

I was going to say... Because I think that's something that's popped

22:11

up a lot on this first series of Call of

22:13

the Wild. And it is, I think, a feeling that

22:15

we can all relate to at some point. You know, the thing

22:17

I'm wanting to kind of just lock yourself away

22:19

and go, " It is far too big of a problem." You

22:21

found kind of with your garden, that was one of your

22:23

antidotes. Were there any other things you found, Poppy,

22:25

that helped you deal with those feelings,

22:28

I think that we've all felt?

22:29

Tapping into like community

22:31

projects. So, getting involved with

22:34

protests groups, stuff like that, surrounding

22:36

myself with people that were also

22:38

trying to push for something that I saw

22:41

as a future I wanted to

22:44

witness or be part of. That

22:46

was really amazing because

22:48

all of a sudden you feel less powerless because you start

22:50

to understand that our power comes

22:53

from our community connection and it

22:55

takes you from being like, " Oh, my God. It's just little me.

22:57

What the hell am I meant to do?" To like, "

22:59

Oh, it's all of us. This is great and it can

23:01

actually be fun." You know? It doesn't have to

23:03

be this like sad, scary,

23:06

awful mess. We can focus on the solutions.

23:09

How we can move positively

23:11

rather than be crippled with anxiety over what

23:13

to do.

23:14

Yeah. Couldn't agree more. What

23:16

are the benefits and

23:18

the good things you've found that have come from

23:21

working in wild spaces, working

23:23

with the soil, growing your own food? Just tell me about the things it's

23:27

brought to your life and those lessons you've learned.

23:30

When I started to engage with the natural world,

23:32

I understood that I was totally dependent on it. And

23:35

you start to then also understand

23:37

that there's so many ways in which we feed

23:39

back into the system. So,

23:41

stuff like we'll eat a carrot and we poop

23:43

it back out. And that act as fertilizer.

23:46

Our pee is incredibly rich in nitrogen.

23:49

So, you start to sort of

23:51

understand the way that we actually fit into

23:53

this amazing puzzle and that is

23:56

just an incredible feeling. The moment when you're

23:58

like, " Oh. I'm part of all of this. Like,

24:00

I'm part of this model that

24:02

is really comforting,

24:04

I suppose." So, from a place of kind of mental and emotional well being,

24:09

there's that. And it also kind of, I

24:11

think motivated me to

24:14

really do the right thing by this

24:17

beautiful model that I'm part of. Because if you're part of

24:19

it, then why on earth would you not want to do

24:21

the right thing by it?

24:22

I wanted To ask you as well 'cause I know you've spoken a lot

24:25

around this actually. I mean you've been on kind of

24:27

Gardener's World. You've done the Great Gardener's Revolution.

24:29

You've got your own, the Royal Horticultural Society

24:32

podcast, really kind of using a platform

24:34

to make a difference. But one

24:36

of the big things that I'm passionate

24:38

about as well, and I know you are, of course, is the importance

24:41

of representation in gardening

24:43

and in particular environmentalism

24:45

as well. You know, I think the whole climate change conversation

24:48

really up until the last three years, it has been a very

24:50

white middle- class conversation. Still

24:53

is in a lot of places. Just wondered what

24:55

your thoughts are around this and how we can

24:57

go about to change it and how did you noticed the shift?

25:00

Well, anyone listening, I'm a

25:02

mixed race woman. You can't tell

25:04

what I look like. Yeah. So I'm operating

25:07

horticulture and activism, environmental

25:09

activism, and yeah, like you

25:11

say, two spaces that are traditionally very

25:14

white in horticulture.

25:16

Also traditionally quite male. I

25:18

think that.. Well, for me anyway, I hope that

25:20

just by being in these spaces

25:22

visibly is kind of offering

25:25

an invitation and saying, " Actually,

25:27

this is for everyone. And you

25:29

know, maybe you didn't see someone who

25:31

looked like you before you could relate to. But now

25:33

I'm here and hopefully I'm like waving

25:35

at you and saying, " Come join."" I

25:38

know that when I was younger, I

25:40

wish that I had role models

25:42

in these sorts of areas that I could look

25:44

up to and be like, " Oh. Actually, you know what? Gardening's really

25:47

cool." I think that they has been positive

25:49

shifts recently. I think

25:52

that there's a long way to go.

25:54

But I think that having these conversations

25:57

and opening the space

25:59

to, to, to other people and other voices

26:01

is always going to be useful and beneficial.

26:04

Especially when we're looking at something like dealing

26:06

with the climate emergency, like as many voices

26:09

and different inputs as possible, I think

26:11

is really important. You know, getting everyone's

26:13

perspective.

26:15

And now you... I will never usually do this. But if

26:17

there's an Instagram account that anyone should

26:19

follow, it should be yours, Poppy.

26:21

Not only will it just brighten up your day, genuinely,

26:24

I'm saying this, but it also is a, it's

26:26

a brilliant kind of live example

26:28

that it can be done. You know, you can go out there and do it

26:31

yourself. And it's a fountain of knowledge

26:33

and tips and tricks. But while

26:35

we've got you on the podcast, I can ask from

26:37

the person who runs that brilliant page himself, what

26:40

are some of your favorite tips

26:42

and tricks and things learned for people who maybe

26:44

want to grow their own food and get back

26:46

into nature. What, um... What would you say to them?

26:48

I'd say get a worm

26:51

bin because it's a really brilliant way

26:53

of composting in a really small space.

26:56

You can put it under your kitchen sink

26:58

or whatever. And do you feed your little whammies,

27:00

your kitchen scraps and

27:02

they'll produce incredible compost.

27:05

Which you can use for your pot plants or in a garden

27:07

and also worm tea, which is an amazing fertilizer.

27:10

So, that's probably number one tip because

27:12

it's super cool and you get

27:14

really fond of your little worms and

27:17

it's just such a brilliant-

27:18

Love that.

27:18

... like firsthand experience of like

27:20

that cyclical thing, like turning waste into

27:22

a really valuable resource. Um.

27:25

Yeah. And then also, actually on the topic

27:27

of like changes on like

27:29

a more policy level on my Instagram,

27:32

I do share petitions, et cetera,

27:34

that you can kind of like get involved with on

27:36

topics like Pete and various

27:38

pesticides and sort of movements

27:40

that are happening internationally around food and farming.

27:42

I really

27:46

loved that chat with Poppy Okotcha and the

27:49

newest WWF ambassador. So,

27:51

a massive congratulation Poppy and

27:53

thank you so much for your time, your

27:56

insight and your wisdom as

27:58

well. And don't forget, there

28:00

is a longer chat with Poppy in our

28:02

bonus episode. Where we dig a little

28:04

bit more into this topic. Oh. See

28:07

what I did there? Big... I'll

28:09

just move on to the My

28:11

Footprint app. This is the place where

28:13

it has challenges for you to try and live more

28:15

sustainably across all parts of your

28:17

life. So, if we have a little look, you

28:20

can start a wildflower seeds in your

28:22

garden. These are great at attracting

28:24

some native insects and pollinators to

28:27

the area. It could even be in a planter

28:29

or a grass verge, or,

28:31

and this might be my favorite

28:34

tip of the series so far, you

28:36

can go on the Woodland trust website

28:39

and apply for a free tree to plant in

28:41

your community. They even recommend

28:43

the best tree for your area. Now,

28:46

as we know, trees do all sorts

28:48

of amazing things. They suck up carbon.

28:50

They can reduce urban heat and a home

28:53

for plenty of critters. And

28:55

that's just a few reasons of why I love hugging

28:57

them so much. And I've said it before,

28:59

and I'll say it again, would highly recommend

29:02

going to hug a tree. You could even go

29:04

and hug your own tree, one that you planted.

29:06

How good does that sound? And

29:10

of course, we'll have some more brilliant tips and

29:12

tricks from you, my friends, that you've been sending

29:14

throughout the series.

29:15

I decided to grow my

29:17

own freedom verge when I was getting

29:19

frustrated that I couldn't buy

29:21

certain foods like lettuce

29:24

and cucumber in the super market without

29:26

the plastic packaging. So,

29:29

fast forward a couple of years, and

29:31

I now have quite a large allotment

29:33

and I'm able to grow food, plastic

29:35

free. The allotment

29:37

is good for the soul and for the

29:40

environment. So win, win.

29:42

It really does fill my heart, when

29:44

we get to hear about the brilliant, wonderful things

29:46

that some of you guys have been doing to try

29:48

and make a difference. And more so,

29:51

just the fact that you take the time to send

29:53

in your tips and tricks really does

29:55

mean the absolute world and I can't thank

29:57

you all enough. I really do hope

29:59

you've enjoyed these. And more so, they've

30:01

been a real source of inspiration. They've given you

30:03

some ideas and also some motivation

30:06

to get out there and make some changes,

30:08

even if it is just a small change. Because the

30:10

more of us that are doing that, the bigger

30:12

the impact we can have together and

30:14

the harder it will be for governments and big

30:17

businesses to turn a blind eye.

30:23

Guys, I'll be honest with you. I don't

30:25

want to read this sentence here that I've got

30:27

to say next to my script because it does

30:29

mean that we're going to arrive at the end of the series.

30:32

I want to express a huge heartfelt thank you

30:35

to the urban birder, AKA

30:37

David Lindow, Poppy Okotcha and

30:39

Isabella Tree, such a

30:41

brilliant note and fantastic guests

30:44

to end the series on. And

30:46

what a journey it's been. Honestly,

30:48

guys, this has been one of

30:50

my favorite things I've ever done.

30:53

And I think to actually just have these

30:55

conversations, meet some brilliant

30:57

people along the way, hear from people

30:59

all around the world and also be on this

31:01

journey with you is something

31:03

that I found very, very special. And I do

31:05

hope you've enjoyed it and taken some tips

31:07

and tricks and learned a lot along the way.

31:10

But one of the final things I will say, and one of the

31:12

biggest things I've learned is yes, individual

31:15

action has a massive role to play.

31:17

We all have that responsibility

31:19

to try and make a difference and lead a more

31:21

green thoughtful, sustainable

31:23

life. But, the big change,

31:26

some of the systemic change, has to

31:28

come from governments and world leaders and

31:30

big businesses. Now,

31:33

I don't know if I can say this, but if we can,

31:35

my producers won't edit it out. We

31:38

do hope to be back for a season two.

31:40

So, fingers crossed. And in the meantime,

31:43

if you do have any thoughts, ideas,

31:45

feedback, get them in. We'd love

31:47

to hear from you. And I also want to express my

31:49

thanks to WWF for making

31:51

this podcast possible and creating the space

31:54

to have these all important conversations

31:56

that really are crucial in educating

31:59

us, raising awareness and shifting

32:01

consciousness. Don't

32:03

you worry? We still have one more episode

32:05

comment, a bonus extended chat

32:07

with Poppy about everything we didn't

32:09

get squeezed in today and it is well worth

32:11

checking out in two weeks time. This

32:15

is a fresh air production for WWF.

32:18

The wild is calling. It's time to act.

32:20

Peace and love.