0:00

2 years ago. Twin sisters 176

0:02

and Steph Chen took a leap of faith and opened

0:04

a cafe in the pandemic. They were

0:06

nearly twenty. They felt the pressure to go to union

0:08

get jobs just wasn't really for them. An

0:10

Instagram poll helped deliver the name,

0:12

evil twins. And the pair

0:14

delivered high grade coffee or they do deliver

0:17

high grade coffee and matcha drink and designer

0:19

jars from their Wellington base. They've

0:21

broached out into clothing and jewelry. They don't

0:23

plan to stop there. Nat and Steph

0:25

have also recently hosted an episode of Sick

0:27

Van La on Tidjane Z, which celebrates

0:30

Chinese food and culture in New Zealand.

0:32

They're in the Farhanoyer Tara, Wellington

0:34

studio with Minnie

0:36

Welcome. Great to

0:37

have you here. Thank you for having us.

0:38

Headphones. Not unless you wanna wear them for the Insta you

0:41

can if you want. But you can hear me.

0:43

Yeah. You wanna you 2

0:45

want Oh, yeah.

0:46

Oh. Oh. You want them on? Okay. Do

0:48

we?

0:48

Oh, we're good. I would flip and have the

0:50

cord on that side just cause. There

0:54

we go.

0:56

You were shocked. You heard some pretty shocking news

0:58

when you came in this morning.

0:59

Yeah. No confirmation. How did

1:01

you guys cope for two days. Well,

1:03

I asked my colleague what's back today actually.

1:06

I asked my colleague to come down and help me make one

1:08

of the guidance that they make because I don't know. They make

1:10

planger. Sorry. Hey.

1:12

Coffee's coffee. Coffee's coffee. It was out for

1:14

two days. And I can tell you on previous occasion,

1:17

I won't name names, but there was very nearly

1:19

an incident

1:20

involving someone who really needed their coffee

1:23

and there was no coffee machine.

1:24

Oh, no. Do you drink? Like,

1:26

do you drink a lot of coffee do you have to

1:29

particularly like the product you

1:30

make? You know what? You don't have to

1:32

a no friend who's a brusser. He

1:35

doesn't drink coffee. He doesn't like the taste of

1:37

it. But we've grown

1:39

we've we've always loved coffee I feel

1:41

I feel you 2, like, the drinks that

1:43

you make. You have to try and

1:45

give it out there. There's gotta be some kind

1:47

of vibe to that. You've just

1:49

had two years in

1:50

business, which is a really big last time.

1:52

Right? For sure. Where are things

1:54

at now? Well, we

1:56

did just open up a retail store,

1:59

Nixcel Cafe, last December,

2:01

last

2:01

year. So and we've always

2:03

wanted to do clothing. So I think

2:06

I think if we look back from two years,

2:08

I think we would have expected

2:11

us to, like, come this far because

2:14

I think at the time, we didn't really know what

2:16

we're doing with our life. I wasn't

2:18

really into university. I

2:20

had a really bad experience at Uni.

2:23

And Tiffany was in the same boat. We just didn't

2:25

really know what we're doing. And so the

2:27

whole idea of studying a

2:29

cafe, kind of stemmed

2:31

from our brother because he pushed us. He

2:33

always gave us that advice which

2:35

was try and do something

2:37

different or new because that's when you

2:39

realize what you like and what you don't

2:41

like. And so we kind of just We're

2:43

like, you know what? Why not try

2:46

this

2:47

insane idea? Absolutely. And

2:51

Yeah. Yeah. I Mens, from a coffee window and then

2:53

to a cafe and then retail store,

2:55

like, yeah, it's still it's still

2:57

kind of mind blowing very humbling

2:59

to

2:59

us. So, yeah. That's a good kind

3:02

of progression, though. Because straightaway,

3:04

I hear like a window I hear a

3:06

smaller cost hopefully then

3:08

for

3:09

cafe. Right? So have you quite

3:11

cleverly paced the growth?

3:13

Yeah. I mean, throughout

3:16

the journey, it has been totally

3:18

unexpected. I mean, I think when we

3:20

first started, it was kind of like a let's

3:22

just try this out and if it's

3:24

okay for we felt because we're trying something

3:26

that is entirely new and different.

3:29

And at that time, we

3:31

were we're stuck at Uni, not enjoying

3:33

Uni. We wanted to try out as many different

3:36

things as we wanted -- Yeah. -- which was

3:39

which we were advised our brother-in-law, Victor,

3:41

co founder. So Victor co founder,

3:43

he was pretty much an

3:45

amazing business mentor.

3:48

So before we started the coffee window he

3:50

had this really cool idea which was

3:53

specializing ice drinks and mason

3:56

jars 176 At the time,

3:59

it was it kind of fit because it was COVID

4:01

proof. And then a couple when we did

4:03

start a couple months later, COVID

4:05

did happen. And that luckily, we

4:07

were able to do online deliveries. So

4:10

that was a big A

4:11

little bit of serendipity. Yeah. So this

4:13

is the thing. There's a lot going on. Can

4:15

I ask what wasn't working at

4:17

Unifin? Because this was pre COVID, and I certainly

4:20

get the disruption that happened post COVID. Like, you

4:22

don't go to Unifin. Sorry to say how many bedrooms

4:24

do you have a computer? Yeah. So that

4:26

side of it got taken away. But even before,

4:28

what yeah. Can can can each of you think

4:31

about what it was that wasn't

4:32

working? For you? Yeah. I

4:34

think growing up, you

4:37

know, especially with that tradition appearance,

4:40

success is really different, it

4:42

means a lot to different people, especially

4:44

in different cultures. So growing up,

4:46

we were kind of like,

4:50

the idea of going to uni or

4:52

having a really successful corporate job

4:54

was the idea of

4:55

success. I think especially

4:58

as a That was the that was the facts mindset

5:01

a lot of Chinese culture. So

5:04

usually parents think that success

5:07

in children is taking the traditional

5:09

path, and so that's going to university.

5:12

And then going to a successful

5:15

corporate job. So But I feel like but I

5:17

feel like everyone that comes

5:19

out of high school, you

5:21

don't really know what you're doing. So

5:23

I feel like people have that pressure where

5:25

you feel like you need to go to university and

5:27

choose something. Yeah. And so I at

5:30

the time for me, I didn't know what I was so I

5:32

just decided to go to Guinea because I felt

5:34

like everyone expected that out of

5:36

me. Yeah. And then I just didn't have

5:38

really good time with

5:40

certain teachers that kind of put

5:42

me off. And I was kind of I

5:44

was still doing something that I enjoyed in Uni,

5:46

but I was kind of at that point just doing just

5:49

being at Uni for the sake of at university.

5:52

So I was kind of stuck I think a lot

5:55

of people can relate because they're just

5:57

stuck in that in that field especially

5:59

when you're pressured by your parents 176 and

6:01

you can't

6:02

really, you know, branch out in a way.

6:04

So how did it go when you said, actually, we don't wanna

6:06

do Uni, we wanna try that. was it helpful

6:08

having, you know, someone else

6:10

say. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It was super

6:12

helpful from our brother-in-law. And

6:15

his wife, which is our sister, because

6:17

they both Okay. 2 dropped out

6:19

of Uni. He moved out to he

6:22

he was in the San Fran 176 he moved out to New

6:24

Zealand. So it kinda helped

6:26

knowing that I had that support know,

6:28

and also because that are 2 cofounders. I

6:32

think they really believed in

6:33

us, Seg that helped me a lot.

6:36

So was your idea the the cafe

6:38

window or was this all being discussed

6:40

by all of you as to what your

6:42

niche was gonna be. Let's face it as wellington

6:45

there's there's more coffee than people around here. Right? So

6:48

how did you decide on the on the starting

6:50

concept? Well, we started as an internship

6:52

176 at the end of it was in the in

6:54

the summer, so he his

6:56

goal at the end of the month was to find something

6:59

that we were all interested in. So

7:01

if our patient was tattoos, so we

7:03

actually son is a tattoo studio, and we

7:05

gave Victor Minissa their first

7:07

tattoos. Yeah. And then

7:09

I always also wanted to go into coffee,

7:12

and I wanted to sign a Bruce of

7:14

course, but that costs money. And then 2 go

7:16

in a cafe, you kind of need that

7:18

hospital experience

7:19

that she was around if I would job at this time.

7:21

So he so Vic was kind of just like

7:24

so he's head rented out of studio space

7:26

Nick's was like a little coffee

7:27

window. So he was like, why don't you just

7:29

start not coffees.

7:30

I mean, what do you get in mind? You get in

7:32

a row with it sometimes. Right? Since The

7:35

idea was crazy because, like, it's

7:37

Wellington. It's, like, one of the best coffee capitals.

7:39

Yeah. then we didn't know anything about

7:41

coffee. I didn't even know the different

7:44

types of coffees that were out there. And

7:46

then there was also I

7:48

really we all were in love with

7:51

matcha, and that was a gap missing in

7:53

the market. You currently find good

7:55

matcha. In

7:56

Wellington, that kinda We're

7:58

like, let's just make really good drinks Mountain

8:00

and see where that

8:01

starts. How did it go? And how did you market?

8:03

So

8:05

initially, it was the name. We had to figure

8:07

out a really enticing name.

8:09

Is

8:10

this a 2 176? Yeah. Yeah. It was marketing,

8:12

and I think it was just out. Diets

8:15

that started it all

8:17

Instagram. I think that was the 2. I

8:20

think I think as we're all party

8:22

students, vector. He's an

8:24

animating a photographer 176 aided fine arts,

8:27

and Steve needs a designer. So I think we just

8:29

bought our skill together

8:31

176, like,

8:31

Vanessa, because our family saw in a fruit

8:33

shop. So Vanessa, she already had

8:35

the, like, the idea of she's

8:37

already She'd knew how to sign business She

8:39

had the customer skills, the customer

8:42

service.

8:42

Just time delivery, all that

8:44

stuff, cash flow. Did

8:47

you become a destination then? Was

8:50

it a case that you were that that the whole woman wore was just

8:52

in the right

8:52

place, or did you become a destination where people

8:54

come specifically for the I reckon it wasn't

8:56

a great destination because we were

8:58

on it was like a one way

9:00

highway, and it was --

9:02

Right. -- we're at the end of Vivienne to,

9:04

like, by the they can't tell

9:06

you. Oh, no. No. Exactly. We oh, you need

9:08

the PC computer guys. Yeah. And so we're

9:10

pretty isolated. We weren't near town and so

9:12

it just meant a lot of people had to go out of

9:14

their way to find us which was really

9:16

cool. But it was also a really good challenge because

9:18

that meant that it's gonna go all the way

9:21

all the way out to see us. So we just

9:23

had to make sure our brand and marketing was

9:25

spot on and thankfully it

9:27

did. Yeah. What? How did you make that

9:29

was that next step then really important going

9:31

to the actual store,

9:33

no, the cafe was next. Where was the cafe located?

9:36

Was that was at the same site? No.

9:38

That's on the outside of town Wall Street.

9:40

Gotcha. We had to leave because

9:43

of a lot of personal reasoning. So

9:46

we were we were we had to find a

9:48

location

9:48

Yeah. -- within a month. So

9:50

we likely found a little

9:53

spot Wall Street. It's a

9:54

stat.

9:55

the pandemic now?

9:56

No. Yeah. This was actually, this

9:58

was all in one year. Yeah.

9:59

But we're still pandemic. Yeah.

10:01

Right? You know the spouse. There was there was a So

10:03

there

10:03

weren't many people in the city. Right? Yeah.

10:05

They were buying coffee and stuff. Yeah. And then it

10:08

was pretty had there was

10:10

a pretty hard moment 2 because my mom so

10:12

I was hiding the fact that I was I

10:14

wasn't going to uni, but my mom

10:16

knew my mom as soon as I was. And then,

10:18

obviously, she found out that I wasn't

10:21

going. Which we

10:22

speak a lot about -- Yeah. -- episode, and

10:24

that's how and we

10:24

can't And so as as yeah.

10:26

Yeah. There

10:29

was a there was a moment. There's

10:31

a mine it was a really hard personal moment.

10:33

Uh-huh. So we just had to leave that

10:36

place, that boating. Yeah.

10:38

Okay. Alright. That's

10:42

a huge moment for you in for family.

10:48

And how's it going now? Like, have

10:50

you been able to kind of mince that situation.

10:53

Slowly, I think, definitely, our

10:56

mom is still accepting -- Yeah.

10:58

-- the fact that we're not at uni.

11:01

Our dad is always been at first

11:03

was totally against the idea, but

11:06

because he was born in New Zealand, he's Kiwi

11:09

Chinese, and he was

11:12

he he has an open mind and

11:14

and realized that he he had

11:16

just supported us throughout at the

11:18

Mens, but I'm I'm slowly trying

11:20

to accept it. Yeah. No. It's not

11:22

as crazy as bad stuff. Yes.

11:25

It's a patient's sake. Mhmm. So

11:28

then where have we got

11:30

to? So we got to the point where

11:32

the cafe was working for you.

11:34

Right? And was that because you were taking product

11:37

delivering products and stuff, as you said, you're

11:39

able to do the pivot and you're able to deliver.

11:41

And at

11:43

what point do you feel like the business sort

11:46

of reached a point where cash flows were happening

11:48

176

11:49

it was in a sort of a healthy

11:51

state. Did that happen quite quickly? Yeah.

11:53

Definitely, I was a slow process, but

11:56

I think when we hit that cafe

11:58

area at coffee window, there isn't much.

12:01

It's just a coffee window oh my

12:03

gosh, Wellington is so cold and

12:05

windy and people it's a bit

12:07

heavy seeding. People would have to wait outside of the

12:09

coffee window, so it's not really ideal. But I think

12:11

it's when we started, when we had the cafe,

12:14

and we could we

12:16

kind of personal personalize it

12:19

as our personality like kind of netted

12:21

her design on the wall and

12:23

we could decorate it

12:25

and it is to how we want it

12:27

to be. So people were able to have that

12:30

full level experience when

12:32

they would come into the shop, whereas

12:34

coffee window, they had to wait outside. It

12:36

was cold 176 just wasn't a

12:38

pleasant

12:39

experience. Yeah. Because that was definitely hard.

12:41

The coffee window because you had to rely on weather.

12:44

Yeah. Where are you at now? As far as the business

12:46

goes in this expansion into your other

12:48

ideas because,

12:50

again, look,

12:52

it's just managing that growth, isn't it?

12:54

Making sure the cash flows happen making sure you

12:56

don't spread yourself too friendly across

12:58

too many

12:58

different products.

13:00

So where are you at with some of the

13:02

new innovation? Well,

13:05

I think right now, we're just trying to

13:07

grow our clothing brand. It's not easy,

13:09

siding a clothing

13:10

business. Well, are you are you

13:12

manufacturing? Are you selling?

13:15

What what you're sourcing elsewhere? What's the

13:17

what's the

13:17

business? Yeah. We're actually currently sourcing in

13:19

New Zealand at the moment just because it's

13:22

a easy way to start

13:24

our next scholars are finding going overseas

13:27

and manufacturing our clothing. And

13:29

we're Design clothing and the next

13:31

semester is designing them.

13:34

Yep. So that's I think we

13:36

always wanted able to answer

13:39

2 just be variety

13:42

about issues. Yeah.

13:43

And so that brand will come across whatever

13:46

you bring in. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's obvious

13:48

kind of what we've wanted to do growing

13:50

up because I was super passionate about

13:53

art. I've always wanted

13:55

to be an artist growing 176. And so

13:57

think we kinda just wanna take

13:59

that further and just do

14:01

clothing, which has been a passion

14:03

of ours. Yeah. And not just --

14:05

-- just kinda

14:05

cool because evil 2, like, doing this

14:07

kind of sparked Natalie's interest

14:10

again because

14:10

when she was at

14:11

uni, she stopped drawing and painting

14:13

and her passion and her passion died

14:15

down. I really like to die. Because that

14:17

felt like I was kinda making art just

14:19

for the grades at uni in high

14:21

school. And for the first time in forever, I

14:23

feel like I can actually create for myself

14:25

176 the people that people around

14:28

us. Yes. So just because this is what it's about

14:30

from you, just listening. For some people, it's about

14:32

making money and being able to, you know, have

14:34

the freedom to do whatever they want. For

14:37

others, just having a successful business

14:40

is the mission. But for you, it's almost

14:42

like a vehicle for what

14:44

you wanna

14:44

do. New creativity. Yeah? For sure.

14:47

I think success for us is

14:49

just kind of following our passions

14:51

and

14:52

and following other people's footsteps.

14:54

I think those

14:55

biggest thing was trying to not

14:57

follow what our parents wanted

14:59

us to do.

15:00

176, yes, I

15:02

Yeah. So we're just really happy. Yeah. And

15:05

I think what's continuing 176,

15:10

I think a lot of people resonate with

15:12

a story. And I feel

15:14

like if people can relate with

15:16

us, hopefully, we can, like, help others

15:18

out there that

15:18

could -- Yeah. -- maybe try 2 their own thing.

15:21

In

15:21

order Asian people as well, just like other

15:23

people out there that have

15:25

traditional parents like

15:27

ours.

15:27

Yeah. Yeah. So what about the

15:29

TV? Because, again, I'm not sure

15:31

what your parents knew you were doing, but

15:34

then that is so Yeah.

15:36

Tell me what about that experience, and

15:39

people can see this right on on

15:41

TV. Is it Yeah. Is it being broadcast

15:43

or is it on streaming or Yep. It's

15:45

on Vivint's -- Yeah. -- on

15:47

demand.

15:48

Vivint's 176. It's Vivint's 176

15:50

2 twenty one. And what night do you know?

15:52

A

15:52

result. Because on

15:53

Sunday, every Sunday, there's still, I think,

15:55

three more episodes. And to see you or even

15:57

so people should go to incident on demand. Yeah.

15:59

Yeah. And so how did this come about

16:01

what did it involve?

16:03

So Seg 176 Mens, let's

16:05

eat and cantonese. And the idea

16:08

came about from our producer, Jess

16:10

White. She

16:12

was sitting at her dinner table with

16:14

her grandparents, and she realized a

16:17

lot of her heritage comes from comes

16:20

behind food, and also

16:22

there was a gap. There wasn't really this fifteen

16:24

percent pan Asian. Population,

16:27

and there wasn't a reflection of that on TV.

16:30

And so ended on air, saw that gap.

16:33

And so pretty much circa four my

16:35

is a six Pt2 a

16:37

six part

16:38

series, a food adventure across

16:41

our

16:41

toadoa 176 hosted by six amazing

16:44

different hosts. And so they cover

16:46

just, like, really funny, hearty

16:49

stories

16:49

of, like, modern Kiwi Chinese life and about

16:51

the identity of the year

16:52

through the

16:53

love of food. Yes. So

16:54

And you you hosted it. Right?

16:56

Okay. Yeah. We hosted we agreed

16:58

and we are honored to say that we hosted the Wellington

17:00

episode. So

17:01

that was the second episode. But

17:04

but I think it was just amazing meeting

17:07

great great like minded people

17:09

176 they have similar stories as

17:11

ours. So it was really just inspiring

17:14

me in whole range of people it kind of just

17:16

him does feel so much sure about

17:18

ourselves because, like, we get to

17:20

me inspiring people that that

17:22

had the same upbringing 176 and also

17:25

they had they felt pressured to continue

17:27

that traditional path, but instead

17:29

they kind of decided to do what they

17:32

loved. And so that kind of

17:34

Yeah. That hit hard for us. One of the stuff.

17:36

Thank you. People can find that on TV sit on demand,

17:39

and some episodes still being broadcast on Sunday

17:41

nights. That's Sick FanLai. And

17:43

I have been speaking with Steve and Nedchin

17:45

of evil twins. Coffee

17:48

cafe in their clothing brand

17:50

what do I miss other staff

17:52

coming as well. Thanks for coming in

17:54

ladies. Cheers. Thanks very much. As well.