0:04

hello,

0:05

can you me?

0:10

hello

0:12

the i am susan for scam likely

0:15

a production

0:25

following the money had gotten chris

0:28

dave and island the guys who gave a shit

0:30

a long way in their investigation it

0:33

, allowed them to see how the cache of

0:35

victim in the us loaded onto a prepaid

0:37

debit card kept moving farther

0:39

and farther away until it could be

0:41

easily pocketed by the scammers in india

0:44

india had tipped them off to the existence of the runners

0:47

who laundered the money and evaded law

0:49

enforcement by driving all over the u

0:51

the but there was a key part

0:54

of the scheme that the investigators didn't

0:56

fully grasp and that was

0:58

the stolen identities used to move

1:01

the money these identities

1:03

belong to people who had nothing to do with

1:05

the scam but chris davis

1:07

dial and couldn't quite figure it out where

1:10

did those stolen identities come from

1:13

the island the digital data ace

1:15

would look at the information over and

1:18

the we haven't noticed

1:20

that a lot of the stolen identities were

1:23

a bunch of nurses in new york is

1:25

odd that so many of them in

1:27

dispatch were all nurses

1:30

it

1:32

was very odd so another

1:34

federal agent working the case starts digging

1:37

and he notices that it's not just at

1:39

those stolen identities are a bunch of

1:41

nurses from new york they're

1:43

all affiliated with the same company

1:46

so the agent cause of the company and tells

1:49

them they've got a problem the

1:51

not want to believe that something

1:53

like that would happen to us or

1:55

something that's you know i

1:57

could see i could really i didn't know

1:59

team

1:59

the

2:00

this is the ceo of that company

2:03

i'm gonna call him leonardo the

2:05

company who runs helps individuals in

2:07

need of home healthcare fine nurses

2:10

and does a lot of barrel time for for the nurses

2:12

to which involves keeping

2:14

their personal data things like

2:17

social security numbers making

2:19

sure that information stays safe

2:22

is one of his companies most important responsibilities

2:25

the this news that someone

2:28

has stolen it seems like

2:30

an existential risk to leonardo

2:32

when i realized that we had a problem

2:35

ah i , it was not a

2:37

pleasant moment to something

2:39

like that can basically kill basically company

2:42

the federal agent fills leonardo he

2:44

doesn't know how the identities of these particular

2:47

nurses were stone that was

2:49

a misread that following the money alone

2:51

couldn't solve leonardo

2:53

decides it's his company is

2:55

responsibility and he's going to try

2:58

to get to the bottom of it himself there

3:00

is money we didn't such a moment you really

3:02

have two options right you can decide

3:04

either to go and hide and in

3:06

try not to dig

3:09

, much information and leave to death death

3:12

you can what i believe is the right thing to

3:14

do is to really

3:16

dig into the problem in understand the scope

3:19

of understand issue that you haven't had leonardo

3:21

knew that nurses routinely call into

3:23

his company to ask for and share their

3:25

personal information then he also

3:28

knew those calls were handled by a call

3:30

center in india and what leonardo

3:32

finds out is that there's one particular

3:35

employee at that call center has

3:37

fielded the cause of these nurses whose

3:39

identities have been stolen the

3:41

still a puzzle to leonardo how

3:44

could this employee have stolen all

3:46

the information the mind boggling

3:48

how the person found a way to get

3:50

that information i mean yes if it's new no one

3:53

person maybe you can remember the numbers but if you have

3:55

multiple people multiple customer

3:57

data mean how do you keep that in for me

3:59

the

4:01

leonardo noses call center has

4:03

cctv cameras so

4:05

, goes for the footage and he finds out

4:07

exactly what's going on when

4:09

the employees on the phone with the nurses

4:12

with can see their personal information personal his

4:14

computer screen at some

4:16

point during conversations he

4:18

whips out his cell phone and snaps

4:21

a photo leonardo

4:23

cannot believe it had to get pretty persona

4:26

there was also pretty pissed right

4:29

away he books a one way ticket

4:31

to india tells his wife she's

4:33

not sure when he's going to be back within

4:36

indian private investigator he's hired

4:39

leonardo marches into the call center

4:41

and pulls the employers

4:46

the beginning he denied everything birds

4:49

because we had the cctv

4:51

we had access love doing

4:53

this together three was really was really

4:56

basically confronted him

4:59

and basically told him that if

5:02

he's not admitting move

5:04

, he did and give us

5:06

actually all his accomplices accomplices

5:08

will you go

5:10

, him and most

5:12

likely he was going to end up in jail and

5:15

i guess the dealing india is not something that

5:17

he wanted to end up in so

5:19

at a certain points during the interview

5:22

the emperor the basically opened up and

5:24

stop is likely getting a sexy old information

5:26

and leonardo passes leonardo that information

5:29

directly to the investigators there's

5:31

dave is employee currently

5:34

broke like a cheap shot gun and told them that i've

5:36

been selling customers are employed

5:38

p i to the call centers

5:41

this is how i communicate with them so he came

5:43

right back to us the

5:47

email addresses the he had been sending post

5:50

names addresses it's for socials back

5:52

to his handler it was good timing

5:55

because dave dial and chris and their colleagues

5:57

were already busy working their way into the

5:59

heart the call center scam themselves

6:02

and when you combine that with the informational

6:04

leonardo had gotten from his employees

6:06

it's sort of for that overall umbrella but

6:09

the tendrils down to the various cruise

6:11

and said all of his call centers are working in

6:13

concert with one another and now

6:15

and essentially was able to fit

6:17

your fingers out there and touch all of them

6:26

you can say media and sony music entertainment

6:29

this , scam likely the

6:32

forces of the moment

6:35

i'm you digit editors

6:51

she'll find

6:54

the evidence

6:57

taking down and organized crime networks

7:00

is a lot more difficult than going on for

7:02

a loan seas or murder

7:04

mark your families that run extortion rackets

7:07

or drug cartels to apply the narcotics

7:10

trade that up systems to protect

7:12

their businesses from law enforcement the

7:14

masterminds sitting at the top don't

7:16

get their hands dirty criminal

7:18

acts that can be easily priests are

7:21

carried out by minions at the lowest

7:23

rungs of the hierarchy if

7:25

those millions get caught said doesn't

7:27

bother to ringleaders because they

7:29

always have plausible deniability

7:33

and

7:35

so in august two thousand and

7:37

fourteen a year and a half

7:39

after the start of the investigation the

7:42

, decided it was time

7:44

to move one run up the ladder

7:47

ladder meant getting to mathis patel

7:50

the boss of many of the runners chris

7:52

davis dial on had tracked round the country

7:55

my taste you might remember from episode

7:57

two episode the guy who called the guy runners

7:59

back the bible to instill some discipline

8:02

and them and review their performance they

8:05

had to do was find out what

8:07

mutation new without him

8:09

becoming aware of they

8:12

knew exactly how to do we're

8:15

borders authorities so

8:17

, allowed to search for if anything the comes into

8:19

or out of us us

8:22

and his colleagues new with these traveled

8:24

back and forth to india to the

8:27

next time he less the united states they

8:29

asked immigration authorities to stop

8:31

him at customs for a routine search

8:34

when he reentered when country they

8:37

, his phone and eventually

8:39

downloaded all the data there's

8:41

i said she had on there were he's like i'm at

8:44

the hotel right now i'm

8:46

his room such and such as he is he was clearly picking

8:48

up he bag of money he's talking about

8:51

a token that's really com

8:53

and we see that a lot the if i see that on tv

8:55

where you have to people that

8:57

have half of half dollar bill now they made

8:59

his have a dollar on their phone but time you know you

9:01

show me your house and i'll show you mine the match and

9:03

we know that we're supposed to be in the same room together the

9:07

most interesting thing the agents found

9:10

was a fedex shipping label it

9:12

was for an anvil a full of cash admit

9:14

they should send to a guy down in sugarland

9:16

texas funny joshi

9:20

when they pull up sonny's driver's license and photo

9:23

they recognized his face right away the

9:25

seen him and cctv grabs from

9:27

stores in the houston area there

9:30

was a prolific runner but that never

9:32

been able to figure out his name no

9:35

thanks to the shipping label the new just

9:38

who you was chris

9:40

who was based in houston started

9:42

following him

9:44

i would sit down the street and

9:46

his house sat on the end of streets i could sit

9:48

down the street or watch and she would come

9:50

out you've spoken his garage had said garage

9:52

door opening as i was sitting on my my

9:54

car park down the street and is a might come out

9:57

the rain sweet open the garage door and center

10:03

funny joshi is a striking figure

10:06

he weighs nearly four hundred pounds and

10:09

wears glasses one day

10:11

not long after chris started surveilling

10:13

him the traveled to india just

10:16

like with mondays the agents had

10:18

him searched when he flew back to the us

10:21

unlike mothers' patel

10:23

sunny joe she had taken some precautions

10:26

when he came back into the country had wiped his

10:28

phone the probably was aware

10:30

or at least concerned that he might get searched

10:32

how funny haven't covered his tracks

10:35

perfectly which got dave excited

10:37

almost always almost arrow me as contacts

10:39

and we uploaded there is just as one email

10:42

and am a bit very easily get to spend

10:44

that when he turned his phone back on his cell tower

10:46

that are just being yet when he muslim sects

10:49

how's it that one

10:51

email had an attachment

10:55

an excel spreadsheet listing

10:57

dozens of transactions to move the

10:59

money of victims

11:01

based on that one email that one dirty

11:03

email were able get a search warrant for sunday's

11:05

account and those search warrants allows

11:07

us to see the beginning of

11:09

a massive conspiracy in india

11:15

the agents had hoped that sonny's phone would

11:17

lead them to one or two key individuals

11:19

sitting at the top of the criminal organization

11:21

that he worked for

11:23

what they got instead was a lot

11:26

messier but , more

11:28

encourage encourage

11:31

open up that email account and we see on

11:34

thirteen thousand emails and

11:36

so now i'm going through email by

11:38

email and seeing if anything in there in

11:41

there of and

11:43

who evidence that person is

11:45

communicating with and that account where

11:48

there's evidence and you settlers

11:50

side new tag them and as you age and her neck

11:52

source for you age more email accounts

11:55

that they communicated with about

11:57

the conspiracy and so then

11:59

what were the email accounts to to were able

12:02

to get into eventual

12:04

, about forty five

12:06

or forty six more email accounts and about

12:08

four million emails because of that

12:10

one one of the emails

12:13

were pretty run of the mill stuff you'd see

12:15

it any legitimate company communication

12:18

company the tech people that they

12:20

were using to outset the office communication

12:22

with the people they're releasing from anything

12:25

that you would think of this and as standard email

12:27

account associate with any legitimate business

12:29

would be in these email account and then

12:31

there was that there stuff emails

12:34

that laid out the four elements of the

12:36

scamming operation you're

12:38

saying communication of things like scripts

12:41

communication of things like telephone numbers believe

12:43

less the list of people that they were going

12:45

to call or had called the u s

12:47

communication about how much money

12:49

they were making all of it

12:54

in other words the agents had

12:56

hit the mother lode this

12:58

was exactly what they've been hoping to find

13:01

the evidence that could advance the case and

13:04

help convince a jury that the business

13:06

was a massive criminal conspiracy

13:09

to steal from americans these

13:11

emails were the smoking

13:13

gun there was no doubt

13:16

about what was going on the

13:18

scammers were even pumping each other

13:21

take their game to the next level i

13:23

had dial and read an email to me i

13:26

their today's their last friday

13:28

of the month please

13:30

please processes max as you

13:32

can make your customers run

13:35

for m p np stance from my

13:37

back tell them it's

13:39

now or never for the loan and

13:41

is when they were doing some the sake loans

13:44

tell , the cops from the way to arrest you

13:47

get effing money packed right

13:49

now that's make huge money and make

13:51

huge cash thank

13:53

you for your time that

13:56

maybe the most important thing the

13:58

investigators learned from the a mail how

14:01

big and well coordinated the whole thing

14:03

was the scammers had corporate

14:05

guys their crime optimizing

14:08

their processes so that they could

14:10

pray on targets on a huge scale

14:13

the agents had suspected there were multiple

14:15

call centers behind the scam the

14:18

it assumed that the call centers were different

14:20

businesses not connected to one

14:22

another or you know when you first start your like all

14:24

this is his call center this is his colson on the

14:26

says call center dave thought they

14:28

must be rivals but when they start looking

14:30

at emails they would start seeing

14:32

overlaps when they're reviewing the emails

14:34

they would see this call center was communicating with this call centers

14:37

this person over here was sending debit card numbers

14:39

that were active in the field to them

14:42

if one call centers snared a particularly

14:44

lucrative victim they might not have

14:46

enough runners and their network ready to

14:49

move all of that money right then

14:51

so they reach out to their competitor and

14:53

say hey food you got the field near our good i got

14:55

to three hundred of them they're alive right now and

14:57

they would sort is share that victim these

15:00

call centers had figured out it

15:02

was more beneficial to work together

15:04

than to be rivals there was apparently

15:07

no shortage of gullible americans

15:09

to take advantage of

15:11

the this didn't seem to be just about profit

15:14

down remembers one email written

15:17

by one of the higher ups in the scam the

15:19

got to him that said at a certain

15:21

point money is meaningless

15:25

it ceases to be the goal the

15:27

game is what counts that's

15:30

sort of calculates

15:32

what we saw lot of the

15:34

at some point a lot of these guys had

15:37

plenty of money and it it really

15:39

was it didn't even seem about the

15:42

money anymore it really was really sport

15:45

and

15:46

kind of a sickening part of all of it too because we

15:49

were not thinking about the

15:51

people are victimized as apartments

15:55

the agents all of these emails

15:58

and emails that garden for you're not though

16:00

at the nurse staffing company and

16:02

all the other evidence that collected by

16:04

following the money and chasing the runners it

16:07

seem like enough to nailed the entire

16:09

scamming operation

16:11

but

16:11

when dial in and his colleagues went to try

16:14

to get a prosecutor interested

16:16

they realized it was going to be an

16:18

uphill battle hey

16:21

doing , this for fun and

16:24

so i remember sitting

16:26

in these meetings where we showed charts and

16:28

charts of others ,

16:30

million dollars and victim loss in

16:32

your area area there were many

16:34

us attorney's offices who were

16:37

not compelled to prosecute the case

16:39

for various for and

16:42

i can are a few phone conversations

16:45

or dave was really upset and

16:48

down the just said

16:50

he did , wanna prosecute

16:52

the case and and you know

16:55

dave was fight and mad and

16:57

down you know it

17:00

it doesn't matter will go somewhere else you

17:02

know what the case you know it makes his manhood

17:05

we're going to go somewhere where it's gonna be prosecuted this

17:09

is a little bit like you

17:11

know a journalist with the story of

17:14

, to us all the time where where

17:16

have a bitch we know it's a great story

17:19

great editor of for editor

17:21

says minutes not

17:23

says enough it's not clear enough

17:25

you don't have all the goods yes

17:28

it's one of the things

17:30

with federal investigation sometimes thing

17:32

it too big they get and will the like

17:34

this

17:36

and you know

17:38

it really really

17:40

can

17:41

okay

17:44

more after

17:46

the break

17:49

the remains

17:51

of for young women were found all murder

17:53

victim

17:54

miller is famous for his ability to

17:56

locate missing children the tin spent every

17:58

day for the past

17:59

the years trying to figure out what have

18:01

and to his own daughter he has ever

18:10

the county and journalists and recently licensed

18:12

private investigator i shadowed him as

18:14

he put together evidence against the man implied

18:16

hedrick that convicted killer just really some friends

18:21

during the investigation i searched

18:23

the think that ten might not be the hero mean

18:26

else

18:26

i in danger

18:28

and it becomes increasingly clear that will do anything

18:30

to get what he wants

18:31

would turn it off as an excavation the past

18:34

discerning to present has thriller one

18:36

in which i feared for my life

18:37

the know exactly where she lives of their quota

18:39

phone numbers every damn day

18:41

from cast media this is vigilantes

18:43

coming may twenty third

18:44

the that your podcast regular story that

18:47

i've found my daughter's murderer

18:50

on august twenty cents on the most brutal

18:53

fishes surfing this have

18:55

been the most anticipated original

18:57

series is here you

18:59

, know tyson tyson weeks

19:02

every of the world young rich and black but

19:04

you know my minute you get too big

19:06

big gonna cut you down starring travon t

19:09

ross a my life and

19:11

harvey keitel harvey what

19:13

is this really

19:16

an ass of i might soon

19:18

from your august twenty cents on the on who

19:20

little

19:24

you're listening to chameleon on capsized

19:26

media

19:27

which prosecutor was going to take the

19:29

case dave dial in and chris had built

19:32

was anyone

19:34

for a while it was an open question

19:36

then the guys who

19:38

gave a shit crossed paths with just

19:40

the right person and just the right position

19:42

to run with

19:44

i'm hope olds i'm currently the acting

19:46

chief of the human rights and sessa prosecution

19:48

sex and with the criminal division

19:50

of the department of justice

19:53

hope old is a career prosecutor

19:55

he has acquired resolute

19:58

air about her exuding

19:59

friends while being polite

20:02

who served in the manhattan district attorney's

20:04

office and did a stint as an assistant

20:07

us attorney new jersey before starting

20:09

her current job hope

20:11

it already worked on several international

20:13

cases those the kind of lawyer

20:16

who would understand what the investigators

20:18

were trying to do the when she heard

20:20

about it in two thousand and fourteen

20:23

he sat down with the agents to learn

20:25

more

20:26

the crime that was

20:28

outlined to me was

20:30

appearance but quite

20:32

frankly the first thing i thought

20:34

was the

20:35

these were

20:36

fabulous agents like the the

20:38

agents that i met with had they not been

20:41

as articulate as clearly

20:43

hard working and diligence i

20:46

would not has taken at or been entrusted

20:48

this case needed to be brought in a in a broadway

20:52

and without really talented asians

20:55

it would never have and brought it all

20:57

that cope meant casting

21:00

a wide net to go after the entire

21:02

conspiracy

21:03

not going after just a couple of criminals

21:05

at one place doing one thing not

21:08

playing like a mall

21:09

the meeting

21:10

they've had taken the lead

21:12

with the ones that really

21:15

open the conversation up and

21:17

laid out what they knew at the time and of course with the

21:19

new at the time was still just

21:21

you know he percent compared to what we

21:23

ended up getting shields by

21:25

he was able to tell this story about victimization

21:29

the potential number of people out there

21:31

that had been victimized and central the

21:33

perpetrators these a quite compelling

21:35

story teller he also remembers

21:37

a lot of odd facts that helps to tell the

21:40

stories

21:41

hope had the ability to make things happen

21:44

for the agents she was the main

21:46

justice meaning d o j headquarters

21:48

in washington d c she could

21:50

get us attorney's from different parts of

21:52

the country to work together on the case she

21:55

also brought in another prosecutor

21:57

from main justice the guy named

21:59

mike

21:59

the shekels

22:01

i'm going to be earlier buttoned up

22:03

the edge a suit mike's underselling

22:06

himself here which is typical

22:08

the humble guy but he was the one

22:10

who really helped break down the walls for

22:12

me to interview dave christened dial

22:15

the helped me understand the case from a big

22:17

picture perspective

22:19

including why he realized immediately

22:22

that was going to be really tough to prosecute

22:24

that's one of the reasons that took many years because

22:27

the scammers are good at their jobs they

22:29

design third scan from schemes

22:32

and such a way that you know it's sort of makes

22:34

it difficult that one night

22:36

and hope rolled up their sleeves and dug into

22:38

everything daves chris and dial and had

22:40

put together the smelled

22:42

blood what made

22:45

you think that this case was prosecutable

22:48

you know like what we're gonna need in

22:50

terms of evidence to really make

22:53

this work well the thing that made it work

22:55

was where the emails

22:56

the mean that's the thing that got us into

22:59

the case it out this

23:01

realized the scope of the crime

23:03

and helped us identify the the perpetrators

23:05

were so i think without the emails

23:08

be would have a would

23:10

we have even been able to go after anyone

23:13

my spot when he started to read those emails

23:15

was i want to get these guys

23:19

there , very very

23:21

enthused that they were they advantage

23:24

of people in this way and ripping people off and

23:27

when when i think agents or prosecutors with

23:29

stephen curry but they took

23:31

of victimizing us people it's

23:33

sort of like with this sort of good reason why this

23:35

we're spending more time on this is because

23:37

we do need a hold them accountable the

23:41

impunity of the scammers was all

23:44

inspiring and there was like facebook

23:46

posts and i think we're publicly available

23:48

that would so fancy cars and

23:51

leverage get togethers and you know

23:53

what the call center would look like

23:55

they're operating they're though

23:58

there's a certain aspect of they were

23:59

shy about telling what they're doing because

24:02

i think probably , good reasons

24:04

i figured there would never be any

24:06

ability it's it was too complicated

24:08

and too hard hard puts

24:10

prosecutors investigators withstand the time

24:13

to figure it figure with the u

24:15

s really come after people and

24:17

all the way as or

24:19

motivators for sir

24:23

mike and hope could anticipate the

24:25

arguments that the scammers would make to defend

24:27

themselves everyone could claim

24:29

plausible deniability say

24:31

they were just following orders that

24:34

they had no idea this was a scam

24:36

for instance callers could try to

24:38

say hey we thought we were working

24:41

for the iris or immigration services

24:43

plenty of perfectly legitimate call centers

24:46

in india do work for us organizations

24:49

we just thought this was another one the

24:51

my can hope had a way to blow

24:53

up those claims

24:55

what was in your view the

24:57

strongest evidence that

24:59

you could use if the case went to

25:01

trial the script that

25:03

he seems is probably one of our strongest

25:06

evidence because it's so blatantly shown

25:08

their intent to defraud even and

25:10

some of the scraps talked about the

25:13

person they called thing assessments

25:15

are the plan and then themselves

25:17

the calling the closer and

25:20

talking

25:20

literally scratch for the closer

25:22

and the customer so the idea being

25:24

lectured i can stop until you actually have money

25:27

in your hand so i think that think

25:29

that probably one of the strongest

25:31

and would speak to any jury

25:34

what i found remarkable about these scripts

25:36

words a subtle tricks used in

25:38

them to come across as genuine like

25:41

a scam color rattling off his badge

25:43

id number at the beginning of the com i'm

25:45

asking the victim to scribble down the

25:47

case number

25:49

it was infuriating to see in in one

25:51

of the things to as , sort

25:53

of a progression in the level of sophistication

25:56

with a script from early in the scheme to

25:59

you know years later they're

26:01

they're learning from what works and

26:03

what doesn't though it was some

26:06

yeah i mean it was made people

26:08

frankly stuff

26:11

that's illegal to

26:24

you're listening to scam likely more

26:26

after this

26:30

the story starts with a drug bust in

26:39

a county run by sheriff's office to cast

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a long shadow and been dealing

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with a mom last he said of i come

26:46

up mason gonna lie up and do

26:48

when authority said investigation is over

26:50

sometimes you have to play by a different set of rules

26:53

he said why your

26:55

has members saw it you've got this

26:57

the wrong witnessed friendly fire

26:59

available now subscribe on

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that nicole is back you

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27:13

didn't into racism the real

27:15

world and tribalism on survivor

27:18

for our third season where they said

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seen a messy obsession

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hum media and sony music entertaining

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subscribe to spectacle

27:36

true crime

27:39

you're listening to chameleon some

27:41

capsize media

27:43

one of the biggest questions in a long

27:45

and sprawling investigation with multiple

27:47

threads like this one is when

27:50

to go in for the kill

27:52

by late two thousand and fourteen the

27:54

case had been dubbed operation

27:56

outsource in addition

27:59

to dave chris

27:59

the island

28:00

the were agents from the treasury inspector general's

28:03

for tax administration the us secret

28:05

service varies state and city

28:07

police department officials all

28:10

lending support to the case

28:12

hope could see that every new tidbit

28:14

of information dug up by the investigation

28:17

was helping to fill out the picture but

28:19

at some point you have to finish

28:21

the investigation we could probably still

28:23

be investigating right now but

28:26

if we wanted to prevent

28:28

further victimization we needed to do

28:30

something and central we had

28:33

and actually move forward with forward with

28:35

when i will say that were

28:37

there were a couple of moments where we

28:40

could have gone in different directions

28:44

one of those moments was when

28:46

a suspect in the case traveled from

28:48

india to the united states and was

28:50

picked up by police in california on

28:52

charges of using fake id is thailand

28:55

, dave believed this person could

28:57

be an important player in the scam scam

29:00

they might not have another opportunity to

29:02

arrest someone this hi i'm from i'm

29:05

the agents were eager to take him into federal

29:07

custody sarah's one of our

29:09

indian target

29:11

he was in the united states and it

29:13

was earlier in the investigation and

29:15

he has he came the lights there

29:17

must have a financial transaction that had occurred

29:19

and the agents really wanted to arrest

29:22

him but the amount of evidence we

29:24

had on him was was fairly

29:26

small as queen and

29:28

it would have alerted the

29:31

, of the network to the fact that we

29:34

were on to what was happening here

29:36

onto the schemes

29:37

and i didn't want to risk that and so that

29:39

was not a that was not a moment that

29:41

we agreed it's and items

29:44

are not the arrest that individual and he returned

29:46

and yes and we still don't have them

29:48

in retrospect hoban so

29:50

sure that was the right call

29:52

maybe that was the right moment or maybe that wasn't

29:54

the right moment if we have they had arrested him

29:57

and he had cooperated

29:59

in

29:59

the broken open the case and a different ways

30:02

but as he hadn't and a bit immediate release

30:04

and then everyone knew this change their phones

30:06

their emails or to eat we would

30:08

not than the rest of the network

30:11

hopes a good lawyers so she tends to be

30:13

careful when she talks but i

30:15

knew who the suspect was that she was

30:17

talking about i think you're probably referring

30:19

to read ball shaw one

30:23

piece is , that

30:25

see how the hell up on the details here

30:27

to somebody else

30:29

it's like another confirm nor deny

30:31

are you referring to but even though hope

30:33

and might believe drugs basra was

30:35

an important figure in the scam the

30:38

wasn't of the top of the pyramid from

30:40

emails the investigators have been studying

30:43

the begun to glean the organizational

30:45

structure of the call centers in india

30:48

be gained more insight into who the masterminds

30:50

were two ,

30:53

emerged at the top top

30:55

first was solder was

30:58

known to his friends and associates friends

31:01

,

31:04

shaggy was the investigators

31:06

believed the phantom of the scam

31:09

although you was still in his

31:11

early twenties it achieved cult

31:13

status in the industry he was

31:15

the guy with bodyguards who looked

31:17

rich who was running the call center where poem

31:20

enjoys worked the young guys

31:22

we met in mumbai in episode three you

31:24

started from the bottom working as a

31:26

color just like bowen and giants chris

31:29

was studying shaggy from afar

31:32

and even he was impressed he

31:34

was quickly through the ranks and

31:37

became a very sought

31:39

after die were sought after

31:41

closer or sought after payment

31:43

processor he was able to develop

31:45

networks of runners in the us her easily because

31:47

of his english language skills and

31:49

ultimately managed to number of cruise

31:52

in the us who liquidated it's

31:55

on to have to call centers we believe

31:57

he by the time we reach

31:59

who and we're wrapping investigation and

32:02

and get agree to indict we

32:04

, that he had steps

32:06

into a role and on his own

32:08

running his own call centers

32:12

sag is facility with the english

32:14

language was only part of the reason

32:16

for his rise a bigger reason

32:19

was his knack for strategizing and

32:21

his talent for innovation chris

32:24

had seen evidence that shaggy had gotten

32:26

the runners to experiment with different gift

32:28

cards to make the money trail harder

32:31

to follow it seemed that

32:33

shaggy also kept changing how phone

32:35

calls were made trying out different

32:37

software to ralph the calls over the

32:39

internet

32:40

by the time the agents would figure out what

32:43

was going on shaggy would

32:45

already be two steps ahead he

32:47

was also charismatic personality

32:49

a born showman savages showman

32:52

me a picture is the out a that the shaggy

32:54

bought from the captain of captain indian

32:57

cricket team is like one is like hand

32:59

in the world or something like that this out he a fourth

33:02

the i usually use iraq he was leave his

33:04

living flashy as a lot of money

33:06

i can tell you that the amount to or that

33:08

are how that would translate that he was he was doing quite

33:10

well well enough to be opening up call

33:13

centers and the know buying expensive

33:15

supercars from probably the most popular

33:17

athletes india

33:20

gruesome the other investigators believe

33:22

that shaggy was on his way to becoming

33:24

the kingpin of the industry

33:26

what he wasn't there yet the appear

33:29

to be working on plans to open up his own

33:31

call centers but in the meantime

33:34

he was a contractor for an influential

33:36

call center better than one of the pioneers

33:38

of the business

33:40

he came out of the a global networks

33:42

who is affiliated with them most strongly

33:45

she appears to have been operating independently

33:47

but it's certainly has strong connections

33:50

to buy a squabble it's

33:53

global was the center of the scam

33:56

the agents believed it had more collars

33:58

and runners working directly it than

34:00

any of the other call center networks fancy

34:04

and if this patel

34:05

was he affiliated to a different

34:07

call center it has patel was the

34:10

head as a squat h global

34:12

that's why h from a h for

34:14

had dash yeah this

34:16

patel

34:17

the other big name the investigators

34:20

had come up with

34:21

for chris davis dial and if

34:23

this was even bigger than shaggy

34:25

he was target number one the

34:28

if if gonna call somebody that been in the

34:30

head of the cartel that kingpin the

34:32

el chapo was in of iris

34:34

scamming it would be his hirsch

34:37

like any troppo it is she

34:39

came from a modest background the

34:41

wasn't conversant in english the

34:43

had a quiet understated style

34:46

he leaned on people like shaggy for technological

34:48

and business expertise that

34:51

he could provide what others couldn't

34:53

there's time

34:55

he didn't get involved in the ,

34:57

logistics day to day operational

35:00

things things he but and

35:03

gujarat definitely illegal ran

35:06

and hid test could provide liquor to

35:08

anyone and everyone so there

35:11

was one of the things the did decrease the skids

35:14

they knew all the right people

35:17

he knew how power work

35:19

he was a people person he had on

35:22

a used car lot in that used

35:24

car lot doubled as an after hours party spots

35:27

on he would put on elaborate dinners and

35:29

entertain ah public officials

35:31

and police

35:33

ever since hope and my could

35:35

started supervising the case the

35:37

investigators had been compiling more

35:39

and more evidence it was

35:41

painstaking work an endless

35:44

chain of email subpoenas

35:46

combing through hundreds of thousands of emails

35:49

slow going and tedious investigative

35:51

steps finally

35:54

after two years by the middle of two thousand

35:56

and sixteen a lot of the evidence

35:58

was in place the question

36:00

was who to indict this

36:04

sagging sunny joshi monday's patel

36:07

these were the obvious targets but

36:10

there were a lot of others and

36:12

the prosecutors knew it would dilute

36:14

the case to go after every single

36:16

person caught in the net

36:20

we had numerous me

36:21

with the entire team

36:23

and going through each

36:26

of our potential target son

36:28

there are many more targets than sixty one

36:31

when we start as and

36:33

essentially

36:35

on i had to discuss what evidence we had

36:37

each percent and

36:40

if they didn't the certain threshold they

36:42

were

36:43

they were on the cutting room floor and some

36:45

people to the states wish

36:47

that certain ones had been included in the indictment

36:51

hope was leading the team that was drafting

36:53

the indictment together

36:55

with my shekels a d o j and

36:58

with the help of to assistant us attorneys

37:00

in houston she work to make

37:02

sure every i was dot it

37:04

and every t crossed painstakingly

37:07

went through each

37:08

then it and which items we want to do

37:10

include in the indictments

37:12

as well as how to talk about the broad

37:14

scope of the conspiracy in

37:16

the network and the scheme

37:19

there were close to the finish line

37:21

we prevented it to the grand jury grand

37:23

jury indicted and it was just a matter of

37:25

scheduling them or take down

37:28

but it turned out hope and the agents

37:30

weren't the only ones gearing up to

37:32

take down the scam call center network

37:36

you can imagine a dusting seven

37:38

hundred people at the same dame

37:40

we had to keep them with us

37:43

then

37:44

the really busy fluid and people and

37:47

doesn't have to keep him

37:50

the

37:52

that's next time on scam

37:54

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38:06

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