0:04

So when I prepare my interviews, I often ask my guests to offer a

0:07

closing thought. The sound bite, the meme, something they want to

0:11

leave my listeners with. Something they hope they'll take away with

0:15

and maybe talk over the dinner table or, well, just discuss with

0:18

others. But today, I'm gonna open the show with my guest's parting

0:22

thoughts. His name is Derek Blay, and he says, be

0:26

yourself. Everyone else that taken. I couldn't save that for the end.

0:30

In fact, I wanna spend the entire interview exploring what it means to

0:33

be yourself. Is it even possible where we

0:37

live vicariously through the images and videos presented on social

0:40

media? Is it possible in so much of how we think and feel

0:44

and do has been shaped by the content we absorb we see on our

0:48

Three, in classrooms, over the family dinner room table. Well,

0:52

Derrick Blay is a young man making a global mark for his creativity

0:56

and his ability to solve significant problems, and not

0:59

only for high profile clients, but for societal issues.

1:03

He works at Lifelong Crush. It's a Canadian agency that I hold in the highest

1:07

of regards. And Derek emphasizes authenticity is a

1:11

crucial part of his journey. And he taps into this tension

1:14

between his indigenous heritage and his Canadian identity,

1:18

and how it drives his perspective on life and work. And it wasn't until later

1:22

in my life that I started feeling proud to be indigenous.

1:26

And I know that I'm, you know, by passing, I've never really

1:29

experienced racism to my face. As soon as I

1:33

identify that I'm native, it's like, woah. There's like a shift in conversation,

1:37

shift in tone. And there's another circumstance he's had to

1:40

overcome is when he had a serious motorcycle accident, and that

1:44

has to change the way you view and value life. What I

1:48

believe you'll take away from Derek, the truth matters most,

1:52

and why context and circumstances, good and bad, are what we

1:55

need to face and embrace to move forward with purpose, passion, and pursuit.

2:00

And on a sidebar, if you fell in love with Disney's interpretation of the movie,

2:04

Pocahontas, well, you might change your mind when you hear the truth.

2:08

You won't be alone as over a 100,000,000 people on the planet have heard

2:11

Derek share the truth in his highly acclaimed film

2:15

called Missing Matoaka. When everything you

2:19

have is taken from you, even your own story,

2:23

all you want is the right to voice your truth, to honor

2:26

your own legacy. The time has come.

2:31

This is Chatter that matters with Tony Chapman

2:34

presented by RBC. Derek Blay, welcome to Chatter That Matters. Thanks for having me, Tony. So let's

2:44

begin heritage and

2:48

this sort of juxtaposition between your Indigenous roots, your Canadian

2:51

identity, and how between the two you often

2:55

find your greatest spark. Yeah. I think it's, it's a fascinating

2:59

background that I have in that I'm, you know,

3:03

Canadian and indigenous. And those two things are at odds in a

3:07

way, that, first blush. It creates this

3:10

tension within myself. But I think that it's

3:14

also 2 things that when they're brought together,

3:17

it can be also seen as very positive and and a

3:21

very, you know, beautiful combination of things. And

3:25

how do you reconcile it? Because there has to be times where you're

3:29

you know, we talk about being Three, and yet biases take

3:33

place and what maybe people with a Canadian identity view to be true is

3:37

very different than what indigenous do. How do you find a way to navigate

3:41

both and and in doing so, maybe bring both more

3:45

towards a middle ground where we look at each other and go, above all,

3:48

we're one human race? I think of a of a favorite kind

3:52

of quote that I've that I've heard many times within my

3:56

own native community, which is that longest journey in life is the

3:59

one between your head and your heart. And I think for me, I can kind

4:03

of apply that same quote to, how I feel

4:06

about being Canadian and indigenous at the same time.

4:11

And so when I think about reconciling those those things within

4:15

me, I think about where I have been as an

4:18

indigenous person, and I look back at my family, and I look back at

4:22

the things that my family has been Three, but I also look at the

4:26

future, and in a way, the future of Canada and the future of

4:30

where we are and and and really try to put a

4:33

very you know, positive and forward thinking

4:37

view on what that can be. And storytelling is so much of who you

4:41

are and your ability to make impact on others, and I thought

4:45

it'd be a great place to start talking about some of the stories of your

4:49

mother and grandmother's experience with what historians now frame

4:52

as the sixties scoop. Yeah. So my mother was

4:56

involved in the sixties scoop, which took place in

4:59

Canada primarily, in the sixties, hence the

5:03

name, the fifties, but it still continues

5:07

today in other ways. But there is a portion of time called the

5:10

60 scoop where my mother was forcibly removed from her

5:14

from her birth family and placed into a non indigenous

5:18

household, and so that's something that she's grown up with. It's

5:21

something that I've grown up with, understanding, you know,

5:25

what that is factually, but over the years, really understanding what that that Key that

5:33

and being taken away from her roots and from her from her original

5:37

culture. And then I take a step back one step before that

5:41

where her birth mother or my grandmother, who I never got to

5:45

meet, was forced to attend residential school just outside of

5:48

London, Three. And so when I look at the

5:52

multigenerational effect, people talk about generational trauma,

5:56

these kind of things, you go from a grandmother that was

5:59

forced to attend residential school, you have a mother that was

6:03

taken away from her in the sixties scoop, and that makes

6:07

me the first person in my family not to

6:10

be forcibly taken away by the Canadian government, and

6:14

that's something where we think about that duality of being Canadian and being

6:18

indigenous and having to live with those two sides

6:22

of of that coin. How old was your mother when she was scooped

6:25

away? It was within weeks. Like, it was just right away at birth. It's

6:29

so hard to believe that that happened in our society,

6:33

and it was accepted. How did your mom ever

6:37

reconcile the fact that there's people that are not indigenous that are

6:41

good people, given the fact that this happened to her. Across history

6:44

and across society, there are evil people, and there are,

6:48

you know, amazing, amazing people full of full of humanity. And so

6:52

I think it's an ongoing journey that she's on

6:55

to understand, you know, who she is in

6:59

society and spend she spent most of her adult

7:02

life, a term that you may have heard before called re indigenizing

7:07

or decolonizing, so so, you know, spending her whole life really

7:10

connecting with a side of who she is that

7:14

wasn't celebrated and wasn't really, spoken about. And, in

7:18

fact, there were many points of her upbringing where

7:21

there was racism, you know, towards her. And

7:25

so for her to undo that and look at who she

7:29

is as a as an Oneida woman, as a as a as a native woman

7:33

today, I'm so proud to be able to see her journey

7:37

as she really leans into who she

7:40

is in her heart and her head, and she's able to feel

7:44

confident and feel like her her identity is,

7:48

is is is strong. We're gonna get to your sort of I don't like the

7:52

word social justice, but your what you're trying to do to make people

7:55

aware of the truth. But I'd love to talk a little bit about your time

7:59

at Marshall McLuhan. It's ironic that you went to a high school named after one

8:03

of the icons in media and now you're taking on that

8:06

that sort of position as one of the young guns in media. So tell me

8:10

a little bit about the school. And if I went back and

8:14

talked to your teachers, what would they say about Derek Bley? I,

8:17

grew up with a computer in my in my household. Ever since I was a

8:21

kid, my dad had a original IBM PC with a green

8:25

screen and 2 actual floppy disks, which some people who

8:29

are listening will probably know exactly what I'm talking about. And there's probably some

8:32

people that are like, what's a floppy disk? So I've always had

8:36

computers around. I've loved computers, you know, getting into

8:40

programming, playing games, etcetera. So it's kind of just been this,

8:44

like, technological continuum. And then I go to Marshall McLuhan,

8:48

and I'm in grade 9. And, of course, because the school is

8:51

named after him, there is a huge focus on technology,

8:55

a huge focus on Matters, and we were this this pilot program

8:59

within the school board where we had computers in every single subject.

9:03

And it turns out that doing math on computers is is not as

9:06

is not as good as doing math with a pencil and paper. But there

9:10

was a huge, it was called the Comtech department, huge

9:14

communications, focus at the school. We had a Mac lab. I

9:18

believe Apple was a sponsor of the school. And I just fell in

9:22

love with, you know, manipulating media, playing

9:25

with media, remixing media. We had nonlinear

9:29

video editing was brand new, so we had, you know,

9:33

those colorful Macintosh Matters with with, mini

9:37

DV, and you could plug it in, and Imovie just came out. And so there

9:40

was a real transformation on the creation side happening

9:44

right when I was entering high school. And during that during that

9:48

high school, you know, portion of my life,

9:52

I was either in the Comtech lab or I was in the cafeteria. And

9:55

I I actually almost failed high school,

10:00

because I would just spend hours and hours and hours in the Comtech lab

10:04

playing around with many of the same programs that I still use today.

10:07

When did you sort of make that transition from somebody that loves

10:11

to consume media or just fascinated by media to someone

10:15

that decided they wanna be creating media?

10:19

They wanted to create content that would shape how people think, feel, and

10:22

behave? I've always had a pretty creative spark

10:26

within me. I think during high school, it really came

10:30

out where the computer was the tool to do that,

10:33

and I fell in love with just kind of

10:36

creating, I suppose, experiments,

10:40

whether it be shooting a weird short film or

10:43

doing some weird animation in Chatter effects or using

10:47

code to animate something. And I would go home after school, and I'd be on

10:51

the computer until 2 in the morning. And I loved kind of,

10:55

you know, seeing things come to life by creating

10:59

them with my own two hands on the computer. And

11:03

then throughout that that high school experience in learning that,

11:06

you know, the medium is the message and all these and all these things, it

11:10

was it was really fascinating to me to see people's

11:14

reactions to the media that was being created.

11:17

And we actually created a multimedia festival, a

11:21

group of students and myself and our and our teachers that we called

11:25

m Three f, and it was the McLuhan Multimedia Festival.

11:29

And we and we created a form for high school students

11:33

all across the city and eventually all across the country to submit

11:37

their pieces of media that they were creating, and we created essentially

11:41

a showcase and an award show, that was super

11:45

exciting. And you could see how the creative

11:48

industry was was really shifting at that time and becoming much more

11:52

digital. Interesting that you talk about an awards festival because

11:56

now high schools seem to be you know, everybody gets a

11:59

medal for showing up. Nobody fails. We kinda all march

12:03

in step, but you're a disruptor. You probably missed more

12:07

classes than you should have because you fell in love with something you were passionate

12:10

about, and you created an award show where somebody won.

12:14

Do you think we're missing a little of that in society? I think that in

12:17

an awards capacity, you know, there's lots of

12:21

different award shows within the advertising sector and the creativity sector.

12:25

I think that there could be a different kind of award show

12:29

that could exist outside of that that that that celebrates

12:32

creativity outside of the advertising sector. And I think that that's something

12:36

that I've certainly noticed in my advertising Chatter,

12:40

that the ideas and the way that the industry is

12:43

shifting, I find that there's work that is really

12:47

it's so wide and it's so much you know, it's part of

12:50

society. It can affect societal change. It can create

12:54

culture. It can comment on culture. I think that that the

12:57

definition of creative that creativity is so broad now,

13:01

and there's so many people who are able to participate in this new

13:05

creative economy, you know, outside of advertising and outside of

13:09

media. You've got the power of of what used to

13:12

exist in giant rooms in the palm of your hand. You

13:16

can edit you can shoot and edit video and and put stuff out there on

13:19

your iPhone. So, you know, I think that I

13:23

think that creativity within a society, there's a huge

13:27

opportunity for it to be celebrated in a much bigger way

13:31

that that is, you know, that is much much wider and bigger than than just

13:35

advertising. So let's talk about advertising because your your first big

13:38

job was at BBDO. People who are not in the advertising world,

13:42

that's a massive multinational agency. And I think a lot of people

13:46

that are listening to this might think of advertising from the television show Mad Men,

13:49

you know, in the early 70s. But what was it like at

13:53

BBDO? Because I know that the time you got there, it wasn't people

13:57

drinking martinis in the middle of the afternoon. How did you cut

14:00

your teeth there? How did you stand out? How did you decide instead of, you

14:04

know, being one of many that you would make your mark and have

14:07

people realize that you're somebody to give a problem to because

14:11

you could come up with a creative solution. For me, it always

14:15

you know, it goes back to high school in a way because

14:19

I always liked creating interesting and different

14:23

solutions to things. And I didn't grow up,

14:27

thinking about necessarily going into the advertising industry as a

14:31

career choice. I had all these tools and these and these

14:34

programs that I knew and and playing with media, playing with with

14:38

different ideas. And it just so happened that, you know, growing up

14:42

digital, I entered the advertising industry through kind of a

14:45

nontraditional route, which a lot of people do now, where I was

14:49

programming, I was doing digital advertising, banner ads,

14:53

that kind of thing, and ended up coming up that way.

14:56

And when I worked at agencies like BBDO or DDB,

15:01

I was really learning, you know, the structure of business

15:06

and strategy and briefs and how to create work for

15:10

blue chip clients and what what kind of level of work that meant.

15:14

And so going through that process to me was a

15:17

really exciting time, but also, you know, being able

15:21

to create disruption or being able to create ideas

15:24

that kind of existed outside of the traditional lanes, but

15:28

while within more of a traditional environment, was really exciting to me. And in a

15:32

way, it kinda reminded me of high school. And how open was it? Because the

15:36

status quo to me, it gets firmly entrenched in any

15:39

organization, even big agencies. You know, this is how we do things here.

15:43

This is our process. This is what's worked for us in the past. It'll work

15:47

for us in the future. Even a client having that bias. How do

15:51

you, as a young person, convince people that

15:55

trying something new and different, taking something from that lab at Marshall

15:58

McLuhan's High School and bringing it into the world, how did you convince

16:02

him to take a to take a chance on you? I think it comes down

16:05

to making sure that whatever we were doing was

16:08

was rooted very firmly in strategy. So we're making sure that whatever

16:12

we're communicating is being communicated through the work that we're

16:15

doing. How that comes to life can be

16:19

totally crazy and sometimes insane, but as long as it's, you

16:23

know, answering the brief or it's on strategy, that's how

16:27

we really grounded things. And then when it came to

16:30

work that was nontraditional or stuff that didn't fit the mold,

16:34

media buys and the KPIs of of

16:38

measuring things, I would always go in and say, listen. No matter what

16:42

we do and what we put out there into the

16:45

world, it's going to hit the the media

16:49

buy. It's going to hit those KPIs. So why don't we why don't we push

16:52

it? Why don't we try to do something that is different and is really

16:56

creative and and just put it out into the world. Right? It's as long as

17:00

it's on strategy, as long as it's on budget, and it's gonna get done in

17:03

time, if we push it beyond, something that would be more

17:07

traditional, we're still gonna get those impressions, but why don't we try to get

17:11

more? I mean, a lot of young people that listen to this show run into

17:14

that wall that I call status quo. They they're coming in with ideas. They're

17:18

coming in with enthusiasm. They're coming in with their experiences garnered

17:22

in the labs of Marshall McLellan or on a track

17:25

field or playing video games. And very often,

17:29

they're they're stopped in their tracks because, you know, there's too

17:33

much risk. The client doesn't have the appetite for risk Or the

17:36

senior team says, you know, wait your time. This is what I need you to

17:40

do. But you Three early in your career, you were selling

17:44

these things through. So, yes, it's on strategy. I accept that.

17:48

Yes. You're saying that you're not gonna really hurt the performance numbers. So

17:51

but you still had to convince people to take a risk on you and a

17:55

risk on the idea. Any advice you can offer people listening

17:59

on how to turn that desirability into feasibility, how to

18:03

make, how do people to buy into your dream versus

18:06

ignore it because it's something they didn't dream about? I think that

18:10

one one key element is definitely collaboration. Even though we're

18:14

creating ideas over here and we're presenting them to the clients,

18:18

it's a it's a total team sport. Right? So involving everyone who's part of

18:22

the idea early on, gaining that trust with clients and

18:26

bringing them in really early on is key because now it

18:29

feels like when you show up to that first presentation and you have

18:33

a piece of clay that has started that that has started to

18:37

form, you can really bring in other people, producers,

18:41

clients, strategists, account people, whoever,

18:45

to help shape that clay with you. The other part of that, which kind of

18:48

is a really key tension is there's collaboration,

18:52

but there's also conviction. You are collaborating and and you definitely

18:56

want everyone's point of view, but you also have to have conviction in what

19:00

you think is gonna work, and you have to be able to have a vision

19:04

towards what that thing might be. And when you walk in with that conviction and

19:08

that vision, but the ability to listen and collaborate at the same

19:11

time, I think when you when you put those ingredients together, you can

19:15

make something really amazing. My guest today is Derek Blay. When we come back,

19:24

he looked at the story of Pocahontas, and said it was time

19:27

to tell the truth, and he called the film Missing Matoka.

19:35

Hi. It's Tony Chapman. RBC stands for Indigenous Inclusion and

19:39

Prosperity, now and for all generations to come. We're

19:42

providing employment opportunities, customized education,

19:46

encouraging entrepreneurship, and offering opportunities to suppliers while

19:50

supporting communities coast to coast. They wanna make a difference and be an

19:54

active participant in the reconciliation movement. Reconciliation

19:58

matters to you, to me, and to RBC.

20:05

Over there. Is John Smith coming? John Smith? Oh, there's a true

20:09

pillager. A true pillager indeed? I heard he's a killer, he is.

20:13

I didn't know you were joining us, Smith. Well, why wouldn't he? Can't be an

20:16

innocent nadus without him. Get ready for some

20:20

signature Smith genocide. This is not a

20:24

story about the power of striking love. This

20:28

is not a story about glory, God, and gold,

20:32

nor a romance. This is a tragic tale of a woman

20:36

who was assaulted and kidnapped from her people,

20:40

from her identity. My people call me

20:43

Pocahontas. You're listening to Chatter That Matters with

20:47

Tony Chapman presented by RBC. My guest today is

20:51

Derek Blay. He's Forbes top 30 under 30, award winner,

20:55

garnered attention all around the world for his big ideas, his innovative, and his

20:58

creative ideas. But his approach to ideas and

21:02

creativity, I find surprisingly humble and pragmatic.

21:07

I first heard about you. In fact, the the world's heard about

21:10

you. You probably don't have a shelf big enough to collect the awards you

21:13

won for a missing motoqa. Tell me about the

21:17

project, how it came about, and why it took

21:21

over society for that incredible period of time where

21:24

people just suddenly realized that the truth matters

21:28

even when it comes to the way Disney tells stories. In Canada, there's a really

21:32

big conversation, and there has been for a few years

21:36

specifically, around truth and reconciliation. And

21:40

truth and reconciliation is done in this order

21:44

for a reason, which is, first, there needs to be truth and then there can

21:48

be reconciliation. You can't have reconciliation without truth.

21:51

And so we had to look at, you know, this

21:55

major issue that is surrounding missing and

21:59

murdered indigenous women and girls, And we said,

22:03

you know, how can we help? What can we do? We had done some

22:06

prior work with the chiefs of Ontario, which is a group that

22:10

represents most of the First Nations within Three, and one of

22:14

their key objectives was shifting from, you know, 1 year

22:18

it's cultural appropriation, another year it's a real focus

22:21

on on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. And so

22:25

there was a call to action coming out of the national

22:28

inquiry to look at stereotypes and

22:32

to do something about stereotypes that persist within society.

22:36

And so working at an advertising agency, working

22:40

in a in a a field of media, we thought,

22:44

okay, we can actually answer one of these calls, and we can do something

22:48

to help participate in this national conversation, do something

22:52

positive to help bring to light Three stereotypes

22:55

that persist. And we found that the stereotype of

22:59

the Indian princess or the stereotype that indigenous

23:03

women are submissive or more sexually available

23:07

is something that we can look at and we can and we can counter and

23:10

say that is total bull and so we looked at the

23:14

most prominent example, the most famous

23:19

indigenous woman that everyone knows. Right? Pocahontas. Everyone knows

23:22

the story. It's it's codified and baked into

23:26

the story of North America, really. You know? And we did

23:30

all this research, and we found that she was actually one of the

23:34

first documented missing and murdered indigenous women in

23:38

North America, and so we thought, okay, that's that's

23:41

crazy. That's ground 0. We said we have to flip this on its

23:45

head and tell the truth. We have to tell the true story of

23:48

this and do it in a way where we're gonna co opt

23:52

another version of her story that's very well known, which

23:56

is the film. And how did you go about doing that?

24:00

Because, obviously, there's copyright issues. There's a

24:03

whole gauntlet of things. I mean, the idea is so big. I'm sold.

24:07

But now the reality hits, I've gotta make this idea

24:10

work. How did you go about doing that? What's the quote? Like,

24:14

99% perspiration. Right? Like, when you've got an

24:18

idea that that's it's that big, once we thought about

24:21

this idea and we thought we're gonna pull this off, it was like,

24:25

now the real work is beginning, which is, you know, selling the

24:29

idea in, making sure that that the community

24:33

has been consulted, right, which we did. We we worked with chiefs of

24:37

Ontario. There was essentially a panel of elders, female elders,

24:41

women across many different First Nations who

24:44

heard our idea, and and they said, you know, this is awesome. You guys should

24:48

do this. And we were able to partner with Muskrat Magazine,

24:52

which is an indigenous magazine based in Ontario here, to

24:55

help bring this idea out into the world and launch this idea.

24:59

And what was incredible was once

25:03

once we that the idea, it was like, now we have to rewrite the

25:07

entire script from the ground up, and we have to do it all from an

25:11

indigenous perspective. And it was actually really

25:14

hard to find indigenous screenwriters, which was

25:18

actually awesome, because what it meant was all these indigenous all these

25:22

female indigenous screenwriters were so busy working on other projects

25:25

that that's great for the community. So that that took a bit to find the

25:29

right the right Matters. And then it's not just writing a

25:32

script in a traditional sense, because when you make an animated

25:36

film, you write the script first, you record the voice

25:40

over, and then you animate based on

25:43

the voice over. But we had to do things backwards, which was look

25:47

at the existing script, rewrite it from an indigenous perspective,

25:51

but make sure that we're using the same amount of syllables

25:55

and similar words that would line up with what's going on on

25:59

screen. So that in itself was a

26:03

crazy crazy mental gymnastics to figure out how we're

26:06

gonna rewrite the script and still line it up with picture.

26:10

And from there, it was a process of going scene by scene,

26:14

frame by frame, making sure it was lining up, and making sure that it was

26:18

also historically accurate. And once we had that baked in, it

26:21

was then working with, with an incredible partner for this

26:25

project, Chatter Sound of Music and Steve. I'm not sure if

26:29

you've ever worked with them, but they were able to, you know,

26:33

show up as allies and, you know, give us

26:36

tons of time and space to actually put this thing together,

26:40

invite, you know, indigenous voice talent in. We

26:44

even that, the elder character was

26:48

voiced by Dorothy, and Dorothy is a residential school survivor,

26:52

and she was able to be part of this project, use her voice,

26:56

and after she did her voice over session, she told us

27:00

that she's grown up her whole life being told

27:04

not to speak her language and and not to use her voice and to and

27:08

to actually be quiet. And so she felt a very powerful

27:11

moment that she was able to use her voice in this way, and

27:15

she shared that with us after she got out of the voice when she

27:19

got out of the voice booth, and it was like like, everyone

27:23

in the room was just tearing up to hear that even on a on a

27:26

one to one level, we could have had that kind of impact for somebody. And

27:29

how did the indigenous culture respond

27:33

to missing Matoaka, and how did that the rest of the world

27:37

look at it and view it? It's all about consultation. It's all about listening.

27:41

And so along the way, we we made

27:45

sure to have people who were representing and not to pan

27:48

indigenize, but we had many different

27:52

female elders from many different First Nations kind of sign off on the idea

27:56

initially. And when we went out there and launched

27:59

it, we saw such an amazing flood of

28:03

positive sentiment coming from both the indigenous community

28:07

and the non indigenous community. One part that really hit me

28:10

pretty hard was this idea, you know, is

28:14

so big and so powerful that one of the first

28:18

news stories that broke outside of Muscrown Magazine was that

28:22

National Post, which is, you know, traditionally is

28:26

is much more of a conservative paper. I was like, this is amazing.

28:30

Then I went into the comment section of that article, and it was full

28:33

of racism and horrible

28:37

comments within minutes of this thing going live. And I

28:41

said, look. That's the reason why we have to

28:44

keep doing things like this is because people aren't seeing things

28:48

from the right perspective, and it was just like a case in point

28:52

that this kind of work matters and this kind of work is important for non

28:56

indigenous Canadians to understand,

29:00

representation and what's going on. That are the other things I wanna talk to you

29:03

about is the aftermath of that serious

29:06

motorcycle accident that you were in. And

29:11

did that change you in any way? I think it changed me fundamentally.

29:15

I mean, I think anyone and I'm not sure, you know, Tony, if you ever

29:19

been through a experience where you almost died or, you know, you you

29:22

almost got into a car accident or something. But, when

29:26

you almost die, you really start questioning,

29:30

a, why am I here, and, b, who am I? Not

29:33

from, like, a a medical concussion perspective, but

29:37

just more of a kind of a deeper a deeper question about

29:41

oneself. And so coming out of that motorcycle accident, I had about 6

29:45

months off work where I was recovering, and I really thought to myself, you

29:48

know, I'm still here. I should have died,

29:53

and who do I who who do I wanna be? What parts of me do

29:57

I wanna bring with me in this kinda rebirth or this

30:00

or this, this kind of new lease on life that I have?

30:05

And I and, hopefully, I've got 8 lives left. But I thought to

30:08

myself, you know, I I really owe it to this side

30:12

of who I am that, you know, I've kind of been ignoring my whole life,

30:16

and I have great privilege in the in the ability that you

30:19

know, of how I look. And I as far as I know, I've never

30:23

experienced racism to my face of being of being native.

30:27

But I actually kept that part of myself quiet for many years,

30:30

which is almost this weird concept of being racist towards

30:34

myself and not wanting to be proud of being native.

30:37

And coming out of this motorcycle accident, I thought it's really important

30:41

that I honor that side of who I am, and

30:45

I honor my indigenous heritage

30:49

and thought about, you know, the generations before me and what

30:53

they had to fight to get through for me to even be here today.

30:57

So it was really I took quite a moment of pause to think about

31:00

who I was and how I wanted to spend my time and and use use

31:04

the gift of creativity that I that I have. The indigenous culture for

31:08

what I've learned, over the years with this podcast has

31:12

a different level of spirituality than most. It's it's less

31:15

about maybe the words in a bible and much more about

31:19

mother nature and nurturing mother nature that we're all connected. We're all part

31:23

of this. Do you feel in any way that that motorcycle

31:27

accident or the insights coming out of it was is part of

31:30

your journey was meant to be so that you would have

31:34

this perspective, take it with you as at such a young age with such a

31:38

a sort of a big platform in the advertising world? Who you

31:41

are is based on your experiences in life.

31:45

Right? And when I look at that accident and I look

31:49

at the fact that I survived it, it's

31:52

something that I actually look back on and go, you know what?

31:56

If I had a choice, like, I would I would do it again, you know,

31:59

which I know sounds totally crazy, but it totally gave

32:03

me that shift in perspective that I think only

32:07

something like a major life event can do like that. And so I'm

32:11

very, proud of of my ability to get through that

32:15

and proud of really having a positive mindset coming out of that is and really

32:18

and really, you know, taking a step back and going, Key. Who do I

32:22

wanna be moving forward, and what are the lessons from this that I can learn?

32:26

So, Derek, another question as we get near the end of the the interview. I

32:29

mean, you've got Forbes top 30 under 30. You've got accolades, awards,

32:33

worldwide recognition. I'm sure you could have written anything, any kind

32:37

of plan or job that you wanted with BBDO, but you made a

32:41

move from a multinational to a boutique called

32:44

Lifelong Crush. I've had Bev on my show who's part of that your

32:48

organization and Jay on and Denise. But I'm just

32:51

curious why you made that move to

32:55

something smaller, and what do you hope to do

32:59

with a platform where it could say less is more? I think

33:02

what's really fascinating about about Lifeline CRUSH and

33:06

about, I think, independence in general is there just seems

33:10

to be this kind of resurgence. And if you look at, you know,

33:14

longer timelines, there's been many moments in Canadian

33:18

advertising history where there's been these ups and downs of of networks

33:21

and independence and networks and independence. And I think right now,

33:26

Lifelong Crush and the team that we have here and

33:29

the and the owner group within, you know, Bev and Jay and Carlos

33:33

and Denise and Todd, I worked with Denise and Todd at BBDO

33:36

before. I worked with Jay at, DDB.

33:41

And using the multinational model,

33:45

it's almost like and I didn't go to university. So when I look

33:49

at these bigger agencies, they are

33:52

fundamentally hardcore businesses. That's

33:56

awesome. And the things that you learn at a multinational to be

33:59

more buttoned down, and and to and to work with these blue chip clients,

34:03

and to look at these processes, it's like an incredible,

34:07

you know, business university or business school that you

34:11

get to have a job in and actually get paid to paid to

34:14

experience. Right? And coming out of that kind of

34:18

multinational training, we're seeing a lot of people shift

34:21

into a more independent, mindset. And so for me, spending

34:25

I spent 10 years at BBDO, and when I came over to Lifelong

34:29

Crush, there was just this energy of, you

34:33

know, entrepreneurialism. There was an energy that we had

34:36

all the people in the room where we could make decisions about our future and

34:40

the kind of work that we wanna do, and we could shape that and

34:43

collaborate on that in a very in a very real time way. So it just

34:47

it felt like a more independent, more Three,

34:51

Three way of of working on the business. What role do you think

34:55

agencies like Lifelong Crush can play in

34:58

helping also shift the narrative so that

35:02

people believe that there's still possibility out Three. There's still

35:05

opportunity. Because I see so many people, not just young people, people

35:09

across society feeling that the headwinds are just so

35:13

strong that I'm just falling on my back feet and maybe even

35:16

falling over. What can you do as an organization with your

35:20

incredible storytelling power and your belief in the truth

35:24

to maybe lift not not just our spirits for a moment, but

35:28

maybe even lift Canada so that we believe in the Canadian dream

35:31

again? That's a huge question. I think our news feeds have

35:35

never been more full of information and

35:39

also disinformation. And so I think when you go

35:43

back to the fundamentals and you look at truth and

35:47

you look at creativity and you look at disruption,

35:50

as you mentioned, disruptive ideas, I think there's never

35:54

been a more important time to be creative and

35:58

to do ideas that have never been done before and to do ideas

36:02

which sometimes people call risky. Those are the kind of

36:05

ideas that resonate within culture. They cut through the news

36:09

feed. They capture imagination, and so

36:12

I feel a real sense of purpose as an indigenous Canadian,

36:17

as a as a leader within within the agency

36:20

to create, you know, work that connects with culture,

36:24

connects with Canadians, connects with society, and work that

36:28

can sometimes fundamentally change something

36:31

that really needs changing. You know, Derek, I always end

36:35

my podcast as my Three takeaways. And Bev

36:39

warned me that I'm just gonna absolutely fall in love with the way you think

36:42

and approach because she just thinks the world of your, what

36:45

you bring to their culture in terms of context and

36:49

circumstances. It started with your grandmother in residential schools, your mother

36:53

with the 60 scoop. You identifying

36:56

as now almost like your mom came back and wanted to to

37:00

reconcile who she was. Your in many ways, your motorcycle accident started you in that

37:04

journey, but my three things is the first one is from your

37:07

indigenous roots and this beautiful quote. The longest journey is often

37:11

between our head and our heart. I can't think of a a

37:15

quote that rings truer, especially nowadays, where

37:18

we're losing that, as you describe, lifelong crush, that sense

37:22

of, opportunity and excitement and entrepreneurship

37:26

and going after things. We as as individuals

37:30

have to shorten that journey between what we're passionate for and we're excited

37:33

about and what we go after. The second one, obviously, is that you talk about

37:37

the need that never been a better time to create that ideas that matter, that

37:41

resonate, that cut through culture, that make I shine. And and I

37:44

love you that you talk about, but there's no I in that. It's a team

37:48

effort. It's it's about collaborating with your team, collaborating with your

37:52

client, but also collaborating with a sense of conviction

37:56

that you can see where we're heading. You can animate it so that

37:59

even when the growing gets tough, the tough keep going. And then the

38:03

final thing is that, which I I loved, is your honesty with the motorcycle accident

38:07

that you were, in many ways, in your early years, racist to yourself, bearing

38:11

your indigenous roots. But when you said that the end of it, I

38:14

survived this accident, what do I want to take forward? What do I want

38:18

about me that I take with me? I think is a lesson in

38:22

life for all of us that we don't need a motorcycle accident to

38:25

realize that every day we're starting our future and

38:29

that if we really bring forward the things that matter most,

38:33

I think we can matter most and in doing so collectively, society can

38:37

matter most. So for all of that and more, Derek, I'm just, I'm

38:41

just enjoying chatting with it. Well, thanks so much, Tony. I'll just build on your

38:44

on your comment around the about the journey or the or the distance between that

38:52

journey is the destination, which I know sounds cheesy.

38:55

But that truly is, I think, what life is all about is

38:59

you got your head and your heart. There's a a long distance between

39:03

those two, but being comfortable in that journey as the

39:06

destination. Chatter that matters has been a presentation

39:10

of RBC. It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening.