0:02

Right across the country are struggling to address homelessness.

0:09

As housing prices increase and supply is in desperate demand.

0:16

Folks are going to continue to struggle, particularly young folks who are significantly

0:29

and I sold the only item I had left in the world, which was a on it, and I sold the only item I had left in the world, which

0:34

was a pair of boots. And I remember I walked out of the

0:38

place where I sold Three, and my foot touched that whole concrete

0:41

sidewalk. And honestly, Tony, I like, I just

0:45

didn't wanna be here anymore. Today's episode's gonna hit close to home for Key,

0:55

and I have to believe for all of you.

1:00

We're gonna delve into an issue that deeply troubles us. The growing

1:03

number of people in our country are unhoused.

1:07

Breaks my heart to see so many people living in their cars and tents and

1:11

shelters, couch surfing, without a place to truly call their own.

1:15

And the mental health crisis that comes with it. So I

1:19

feel immense gratitude each day when I walk through my front door

1:23

into a home where I know I belong, where everything's familiar, where I can

1:27

welcome friends and family. That sense of belonging problem

1:31

is not only

1:35

present, but growing. As I stated

1:38

problem is not only present, but growing. As I stated

1:42

earlier, the mental health issues that come with it, the economic challenges, the lack

1:46

of dignity, and more importantly, the lack of affordable

1:50

housing. We need to confront these issues head on and

1:53

find sustainable solutions. Today, I'm

1:57

honored to speak with Joe Roberts, the Skid Row CEO,

2:01

whose remarkable journey from homelessness to becoming a successful

2:05

entrepreneur, author, motivational speaker is a testament to the

2:08

resilience of the human spirit. For how so many years

2:13

I had all this potential and value, but I didn't treat myself

2:16

with any respect. How could I expect the world to value

2:20

who I was? Something I've learned along my journey

2:25

is that each individual human being and soul has such

2:28

huge value. That is Chatter that matters with Tony Chapman

2:39

presented by RBC. Joe's advocacy work, particularly through the

2:43

Push For Change campaign, has made a tangible impact

2:46

on raising awareness and funds for youth homelessness in Canada.

2:51

Joe, thanks for joining me today. I mean, I used AI.

2:55

I looked at your tapes, excerpts, people that have attended your speeches and

2:59

stuff, and you just are a remarkable human being, and I hope I do

3:02

justice to your story. Thanks for having me on the program. Although I would I

3:06

would say just to sort of offset that a bit, I don't think I'm particularly

3:09

special, Tony. I had access to resources. You know, I'm I'm,

3:13

a common story of someone who bounces back, finds recovery,

3:17

and moves forward. I'm just kinda loud in from the stage with it. You know

3:20

what I mean? Yeah. I think that's a fair point, and we're certainly gonna get

3:23

into the need for having resources and and some of the people that helped you

3:27

along the way. First of all, I wanna just say as a marketer, I love

3:30

this concept of framing your entire journey into Three

3:34

words, Skid Row CEO. How did that come

3:38

about? Because that to me is just it's it's so compelling that it it I

3:42

I have to open up that book and dive deeper into, Joe's life.

3:46

Yes. I'd love to take credit for it, but it wasn't me. It was, it

3:49

was actually, that province newspaper out here in

3:52

Vancouver when I won the courage to come back award, in

3:56

Three. So 21 years ago, that's, that was the moniker they gave

4:00

me. And Three was some of us were sitting around the table saying, boy, that

4:03

just really kind of covers it in 3 words from skid row to CEO.

4:07

And so it stuck, Courage just had their, their,

4:11

their annual event, the 26th, version of

4:15

that, the other night. And, yeah. So that's where that

4:18

started. Even before the Skid Row, when you hit Skid Row, there's

4:22

obviously Joe the child. And I wanna talk a little bit about

4:26

these 2 polar opposite males that really influenced your life.

4:30

And the first was your dad. He was your hero. So tell me a little

4:32

bit about what he was all about. Well, I grew up in a lower

4:36

middle class family, in Midland, Ontario,

4:40

so an hour and a half north of Toronto. Dad worked at the seatbelt factory.

4:42

He worked for Decor and Metal. It's called something else now. He was, you know,

4:46

he was a great dad. He loved being a dad. He was a hockey coach,

4:49

baseball coach in his shadow. I felt love, safe, and protected. You know,

4:53

he used to say things to me like I love you. You can do and

4:55

be anything. Unfortunately, dad passed away really young. I

4:59

was 8 years old. Dad was 35 and, you know, just

5:03

like that, our family trajectory changed.

5:07

I lost my dad, our family lost our our economic security. My mom

5:11

lost her partner in this relationship. So what happened next was mom

5:15

remarried. The only problem is the man who came into our into my

5:18

life next was couldn't be more polar opposite to my father. He was a violent,

5:22

abusive alcoholic. So I went from a guy, a guy, a dad who said things

5:26

like, I love you. You can do anything to a man who'd say things like,

5:29

you're stupid, you're dumb, and you'll never amount to anything. How do you deal with

5:32

that? Because you're 8 years old when he when your dad dies. How soon

5:35

after did your mom remarry? Relatively quickly, but I don't fault her for that. You

5:39

have to understand, Tony, this is the early 19 seventies. She's got a mortgage to

5:42

pay. She's gotta food on the table for these 3 kids, aged 5, 8, and

5:45

11. Right? So I think it was that

5:49

marriage, the actual marriage didn't happen for some years. It was the coming

5:52

together and and, you know, co sharing that that house together and

5:56

living together. I think that happened, about a year after dad died.

6:00

And did you ever have any resentment that how's she moving on and I'm

6:03

still dealing with the loss of this hero, or it was were you just too

6:07

early to even compartmentalize that? No. I don't think so. At 8 years old, I

6:10

had a whole bunch of you gotta remember there's 2 things that happened at once.

6:13

1, the trauma of losing dad. Grief is huge. I mean, look at the last

6:16

4 years, you know, COVID and Chapman

6:20

grief is probably one of the biggest things that we we navigate in our

6:23

time. So I hadn't dealt with that, and then I had this ongoing verbal,

6:27

physical, and emotional abuse from stepdad. So I wasn't

6:31

really blaming mom, and never really that, because she was also caught in

6:35

in a cycle of her of domestic violence. Just

6:38

so, you know, she had her own stuff. She was always trying to get

6:42

in between me and stepdad. For some reason, I was the target.

6:46

My little sister didn't get it. My older brother didn't get it, but I was

6:49

the target. And I think it had a lot to do with a very warm

6:51

relationship I had with my mom. So your mom's trying to get in the middle.

6:55

That's obviously causing friction and stuff. But when did you start

6:59

turning to alcohol and drugs as sort of a means of sort

7:02

of trying to find some element of escape? So that sort of

7:06

happened. My my brother was always someone I looked up to, and I

7:10

wanted to belong to his group. He was 3 years older than Key, and and

7:13

you know how brothers, sister rivalry, you know? So

7:17

he invited me and his old, with his older friends to experiment

7:21

and I joined and I didn't join because I thought it would be cool. Or

7:24

I was, I was curious about drug consumption. I joined to belong.

7:28

You know, Johann Hari wrote in chasing the Three, the opposite of

7:32

addiction isn't recovery. The opposite of addiction is connectedness or community.

7:36

That's what I was seeking, because I didn't fit in at school. I was weird

7:39

and awkward. Didn't fit in at home. Boom. Three this group of people said,

7:42

hey. Join us, and I joined. And I used and then that

7:46

happened is for the first time in my life, I wasn't afraid. I wasn't as

7:50

scared. And so it became a protection

7:53

mechanism. You know, think of the last 4 years. What is it that you

7:57

use or leaned on when things get uncertain or

8:00

scary? Sometimes it's food or social media or or

8:04

escapism. Sometimes it's a positive habit, like exercise or

8:08

or writing or journaling or yoga. For me, I found a

8:11

way to stay safe in a very, very uncertain world. And when did

8:15

that sense of belonging and experimenting become

8:20

less recreational and becoming something that you needed to have? You became quite

8:23

dependent on it. Well, I would say right from the that get go, it was

8:26

medicinal. It wasn't social as much as it was, as soon as I

8:30

found, hey, I can feel okay

8:34

here. That became the go to. The the problem is

8:38

it set a series of abdominal effects. And by the time I was 14 or

8:42

15, the consequences were starting to show up in my life in

8:45

serious ways. I was non compliant at home. I was getting into trouble in school

8:49

and the community that 15, I got kicked out of the house At

8:52

16, I got kicked out of school. And at 17, I was in trouble with

8:56

the legal system. And by the time you're 15, when you got kicked out of

8:59

the house, it wasn't like you had a safe landing. What I read that you

9:02

were starting to live on the streets. Well, not right away. See, that's the

9:06

misnomer with youth homelessness is I was couch surfing. I was invisibly

9:10

homeless. Okay. So a lot of youth, when they, you know, they, they get in

9:13

a fight with mom or dad in Brampton or Mississauga, and they slam the door

9:16

and they go, they don't really have a plan. They grab whatever they need for

9:19

the night or the next couple of days. And if they're lucky, they got a

9:22

good safe couch to land on or an uncle or an aunt or a grandma

9:25

or a girlfriend's parents' place. For me it

9:29

was, I was couch surfing. So I wasn't visibly homeless at 15 years old.

9:33

I wasn't, you know, sitting in front of the liquor store with a cardboard sign

9:36

that happened Chatter, But make no mistake, there was a high

9:40

level of vulnerability in those first, you know, 90 days.

9:43

And statistically, we know that. Like, when you look at the the research

9:47

from, homeless hub and and the Canadian Alliance

9:50

and, Away Home Canada, those

9:54

those early weeks are really, really crucial to wrap around a

9:58

young person. This is why I like organizations like like Covenant House who, you

10:02

know, do a really good job that trying to get and reach that young person

10:05

before, a lot more happens when they're out out in the Three

10:09

spinning for prizes. What I'd learned about when I was reading about you is

10:12

that this became a fairly steep downward spiral.

10:16

A combination of drugs, your mental wellness, maybe running out of

10:20

coaches to surf on. Can you just frame for the audience how

10:23

you know, when you felt completely alone in this world? Yeah. So

10:27

the the the degradation Chapman slowly. It's kinda like the

10:31

boil the frog, you know, a degree at a time. I wore my welcome

10:35

out in the Midland Barrie area, decided I was gonna go to Vancouver at,

10:39

at 18 years old, jumped on a Greyhound bus, landed in Vancouver. It was expo

10:43

86. But now I'd moved away from family. I'd moved

10:47

away from oversight. I'd moved away from a school that I could have reintegrated. I'd

10:50

certainly moved away from mom who had her eyes on Key. And I found myself

10:54

in the streets of Vancouver and things went from bad to worse.

10:57

And before my 20th birthday, I was now graduating

11:01

into more dangerous drugs and dangerous ways of using those drugs,

11:05

pushing a shopping cart and living under a viaduct. On my

11:08

worst day, going through opioid withdrawal,

11:13

sitting at Pigeon Park on a rainy cold December

11:17

morning, 3 days before Christmas, I did the unthinkable on it, and I sold the

11:20

only item I had left in the world, which was a pair of boots.

11:24

And I remember I walked out of the place where I sold

11:28

them, and my foot touched that cool concrete sidewalk. And honestly,

11:31

Tony, I, like, I just didn't wanna be here anymore.

11:36

Like, life hurts so much. The walls were closing in so bad. And

11:40

for years, I lived in that illusion of self sufficiency. The heaviest thing I

11:44

ever lifted was my hand for help. I didn't know how to ask for help,

11:47

because when I was growing up, you know, you learned that nobody was coming to

11:51

save you. And so, you know, that wasn't an

11:55

instinct of mine to say, hey, can you help me with this? It is today.

11:58

But in that moment, I reached out, I said a little prayer, I asked for

12:01

help, and I made a promise on a street corner that if I ever got

12:04

a second chance, I would pay it forward. How did you

12:08

survive though? I mean, you know, you talk about it, with shopping cart and

12:11

living under it. I mean, there has to be skills that you

12:15

learn to just get through the day, to not be

12:19

attacked, to feel some sense of, I mean, I can

12:22

imagine you can never feel a sense of belonging, but at least like some sense

12:26

of existence. Here. Think about this. The last 4 years, we've

12:30

dealt with more uncertainty starting with the Q1 of 2020 when COVID hit

12:34

Human beings are incredibly resilient. We learn how to adapt. I woke up every

12:37

single morning with unsolvable problems and somehow had to carry

12:41

on. We've all done that. And what that ends up happening

12:44

over time is that when you're thrust into that environment, you build really

12:48

strong neural Takeaways, and you get creative. I learned

12:52

how to sharpen my communication skills. I learned how to see

12:55

creative solutions and ideas. I learned how, you

12:59

know, I learned what a really tough day looked like. And and, honestly,

13:03

a tough day is not a 600 point drop in the Dow. A tough day

13:07

is sleeping behind a dumpster. So you adapt. You grow. You

13:10

learn. And what's so interesting about that is those became my

13:14

greatest asset. Know, when I was in front of those kids on Vancouver

13:18

Island sharing that message, that lived experience, they were

13:22

leaning forward. Access to their minds and hearts is is the

13:25

gift that comes from from that experience. But I don't think I'm particularly

13:29

special in that. We all have that ability to adapt. You're being

13:32

very kind to yourself, but, you know, when you're when there's so much

13:36

uncertainty, how is it possible that you're developing

13:41

survival skills and skills that you can take with you the rest of your

13:44

life? You you know, it's funny you say that. One of the guests that you

13:47

just had on recently was Malcolm Gladwell. And in his book, Blink,

13:51

he talks about having these these skill sets. The

13:55

streets gave me that sense. And it's it's interesting. I've tried to

13:58

explain to people what it is that I picked up or what it is that

14:02

I have when I'm in a boardroom or a sales call or I'm standing in

14:05

front of a 1000 people at a conference. But that empathy piece,

14:08

that ability to read a room, you know,

14:12

the I don't know. There's just a whole bunch of intrinsic value that

14:16

comes from that negative life experience. So when we layer that onto

14:19

people and what's going on today, I think that there's an enormous amount of

14:23

that blank that has happened from COVID in the last 4

14:27

years, that that may be just sitting there dormant waiting for people to

14:31

tap. But experience is the the lens that we

14:34

see life through that gives us context. I've read by the time

14:38

you're 24, you say you've hit bottom. You're exhausted both physically

14:42

and mentally. No path forward. Did you

14:45

ever think that it would be easier just to

14:49

leave this life, or did you realize was there always something inside

14:53

you that said something out there is worth fighting for? My experience,

14:56

I vacillated in between hopelessness and a belief in

15:00

something beyond. It depended on the day,

15:04

whether I was going to entertain hopelessness or there's

15:07

something beyond this. The thing is is that, you know, having

15:11

fun and and, and using drugs and and pain and misery before you're

15:15

20 and after you're 20 are different experiences. And I started to lose

15:18

friends, and I started to get scared,

15:22

you know, and, and I remember one day sitting on a park bench in front

15:26

of RBC and navy, there was that, I had probably the most important leadership

15:30

discussion I ever had in my life. I was sitting beside this guy named

15:33

Gus, an older gentleman. He had these beautiful blue eyes filled with

15:37

love and compassion. And he looked at me and he said, Joe, there's more to

15:40

you than you can see. And and in that moment, I

15:43

was a dirty, disheveled, selfish, rough around the edges,

15:48

street involved young person, dirty clothes, scruffy beard,

15:51

you know, but he looked beyond how I was presenting, and he spoke to

15:55

my potential, my possibility. Shortly after that,

15:59

and and selling the boots, I reached out to my mom. I

16:03

asked for help. She came out to Vancouver, brought me back to Ontario,

16:08

set me up in her basement in Midhurst, Three. And in many

16:12

ways, mom provided that housing first strategy for me. Was the stepdad

16:15

still around? No. What had happened is when I left the house and

16:19

went out to Vancouver, she finally, divorced

16:24

him, and and he was living in an SRO in downtown

16:27

Barrie. Unfortunately too, that that's sorta how his

16:31

story ended. And what's interesting about that is I

16:34

I I hated this guy. Like, I I wouldn't

16:38

I remember people in in, in in recovery saying, you gotta forgive.

16:42

I didn't want to. Like, he had done some serious damage to mom,

16:46

me, my brother's sister, our family. But when he passed

16:49

away, I remember not feeling that sense of victory

16:53

or not feeling that elation, and and that hit Key. But for the

16:57

grace go I. He he was just a guy struggling with his own demons, and

17:00

he just never found a day of sobriety, and and that's

17:04

kinda sad. And you hurt people, hurt people. And I've since

17:07

forgiven him because you can't really move forward in this life carrying around

17:11

a burlap sack full of hate and resentment. Before I get into it, there's 2

17:14

things that you said that I wanna just do a sidebar because part of this

17:18

is lessons in life. You talked about on the streets,

17:21

you had to learn to survive every day. And within that,

17:25

you develop some and hone some skills. Do you think that today,

17:30

our youth has that opportunity, or do we give too

17:33

much of life on a silver platter? And I'm not talking about when you're leaving

17:37

school, but I'm just saying track meets, they no longer measure your time.

17:41

Everybody gets a medal for participation. We don't wanna have failure

17:44

or success. We don't wanna have winners or losers. We just want this

17:48

level playing field. Did you think in some ways that could be hurting their

17:52

ability to develop some of the skills you developed in a much more traumatic

17:56

situation? Yes and no. Key, the danger is is that the

18:00

older generation always judges the younger generation by their context.

18:04

So it's tough. I don't know. Time will tell. My

18:08

experience on the street, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. However, for me, it's given

18:11

me some mad skills. Young people today who have grown

18:15

up with the Internet in their pocket, who who have maybe

18:19

had a little bit more leeway and and not as much accountability

18:23

that may produce something negative, might produce something extraordinary. We don't

18:27

know. You know, like, the last thing I would want for anybody is to to

18:31

be living in the downtown east side, but it gave me the ability to communicate.

18:34

It gave me perspective and hard work. It gave me, that

18:38

spidey sense. You know, it gave me the ability to solve unsolvable

18:42

problems. When I got into the business world, it was like, I saw the matrix.

18:45

So when I look at young people, now my daughter's 21, she's in her 3rd

18:49

year at uni. She has a very, very unique experience that will

18:52

color the rest of her life. She graduated high school during COVID, You

18:56

know, there's all of the stuff that's going on for her today. So I'm not

19:00

sure. Now one of the things that I have subscribed to is doctor Carol Dweck's

19:03

work on effort based, effort based

19:07

leadership. So get kids interested in taking steps

19:11

forward. I do believe that our possibility comes to the surface

19:15

when we, when we move forward in the face of negative emotion. So that's

19:18

how I try to lead. That's how I try to parent. But,

19:22

yeah, to sort of cast the net broad on that, I think, is

19:26

is just like my mom saying she didn't like Zeppelin. So I I I

19:30

just have to be careful that way. No. It's a fair point. And and talk

19:33

to me about when your mom flew out to see you

19:36

in Vancouver and to bring you back home, what did you look like

19:40

to her? Do you think? I think she was scared. I was a

19:44

£155, and I had

19:48

scabs on my face from

19:52

yeah. And I was emaciated. I had, you

19:55

know, hollowed out cheeks. I looked like a living skeleton, and I

19:59

remember the hug. She didn't say anything, but I remember the hug

20:03

she gave me was the hug of a mom who was scared.

20:07

And she gave me this bear hug and whispered in my ear, I love you.

20:10

Let's get you the help you need. And brought me back to

20:13

Ontario and then fought to try and get me into, you know, a

20:17

detox and then a treatment center. And how hard was it

20:21

for you to clean up? Because the you know, intent and actually

20:26

holding that intent I hear is one of the hardest gauntlets to run when

20:30

you're when you're an addict. It was absolutely brutal.

20:33

Because here here's the thing. It didn't just, it didn't just happen. I didn't just

20:36

go to mom's and then clean up. I went to mom's. Now I was away

20:39

from the street. I was away from illicit drugs. My health began to improve. I

20:43

had a place to do my laundry, but I still had that early trauma

20:46

that was driving that substance use disorder. So I continued to

20:50

drink and drug. And, one night,

20:54

I was quite despondent and threatening to hurt myself. My

20:58

mom came into my room and I was sitting there with with a with a

21:00

weapon, And she called the OPP. And that

21:04

night, a guy named Constable Scott McLeod diffused this

21:08

incredibly dangerous situation, which got me

21:12

an ambulance ride to Royal Victoria Hospital, their mental health unit,

21:15

and then a referral into drug treatment. But by the, to answer

21:19

your question, Tony, by the time I got to that place, I couldn't

21:23

see myself going back. I was so afraid of what would

21:26

happen if I relapsed or tried. So from

21:30

that period, the dominoes started to drop for me. There were many

21:34

days where I got scared, and I wanted to run. And when I say

21:37

run, I wanted to escape through alcohol and drugs, but I

21:41

didn't. I found a community. You know, I went down to

21:44

Belleville. I found myself in this drug treatment program for 6 months,

21:48

which led to a referral to go back to community college. I went to Loyalist.

21:53

And now I had this, I was in this smaller community with this really great

21:57

group of folks around me, and I started to use the tools and

22:01

days turned into weeks months, and I started to build

22:04

this this foundation or stability. Were there were there

22:08

dark days where I wanted to run? You bet. Three still are.

22:12

You know? There's like, I've got decades, but it it it I

22:15

still have when the emotional stuff comes up for me, the way that

22:19

triggers in my brain is different for other people. I can only imagine. And what

22:23

you know, when you're going to school and, you know, you graduate with honors and

22:26

stuff, but there must have been many times where you're around

22:30

schoolmates that are doing drugs, drinking. How did

22:34

you cope with that? Not so much even your desire to do it, but

22:37

just to establish your journey and having them

22:41

accept that. I think it's like anything. It's just really clear boundaries.

22:45

You know, they say, you don't go and sit in a barber seat if you

22:48

don't wanna get a haircut. So I, I wasn't hanging out in the pub on

22:51

Thursday night on chicken wing that. I was doing something else.

22:55

And every I was also transparent Chatter a certain period of

22:59

time. I sought to be an asset of mine to let people

23:02

know, look, that's part of my journey. So, no, I I don't drink.

23:06

I don't I don't do weed. No judgment. Knock

23:10

yourself out. I just, that's not my gig. That doing

23:14

this thing over here. And it's still like that. There's a bunch of things

23:17

in my life that I don't do. When I get invited

23:21

to go and do those things. I just opt out. You know, you graduate

23:25

and you you get a a job, and then you turn that into another job,

23:29

and you're doing really well. That, their people are seeing leadership, and people

23:32

are seeing all sorts of things come out that as you said,

23:36

and I think it was in your book. They're saying it was the survival instincts

23:39

I used in the street and the hustling and everything else that I learned

23:43

in communication proved to be quite advantageous to you as you

23:47

started taking on sales and leadership roles. Yeah. I graduated with

23:50

honors. I moved back to BC. My brother's

23:55

wife at the time got me an interview at Minolta Canada selling copiers and fax

23:58

machines. And I thought that was the greatest gig in the world. And I remember

24:01

walking into the sales pit one day and, and, my sales manager goes,

24:06

he goes, don't don't you ever get discouraged from cold calling? Cause I was a

24:09

cold call monster. I would just knock on doors until I was exhausted.

24:14

And Key said, aren't you afraid of the rejection? I said, rejection. Go try

24:17

and panhandle in front of 7:11. That's that's rejection. They just didn't wanna buy

24:21

a copier from me next. So there were some in there were

24:25

some spillover. Like, I had really good

24:29

empathy skills. I had the ability to read an

24:33

individual. I had the ability to read a boardroom. You know, you go into a

24:36

boardroom and there's Three person who's smiling at you, but they're not really on board.

24:40

And so I I knew I could see the matrix. So sales to me

24:43

was easy. I also understood that it's really up for sales. It wasn't

24:47

about selling. It was about solving. What is it that I have that

24:51

you need? Where's the gap? Right? And so

24:55

selling was easy. And and so I excelled at Minolta, and then a friend of

24:58

mine was doing a little tech startup and he wanted to join. I didn't

25:02

even honestly, Tony, I didn't even understand half of what he was talking about. He

25:05

was content development, video production websites. And he he was a, he was a

25:09

bit of a geek, a propeller head, but he believed in me. And I said,

25:12

ah, what do I got to lose? And so we, we threw down and, you

25:16

know, four and a half years later, I came up and and I was more

25:19

successful than I could have ever imagined. I was the, you know, I was the

25:23

Canadian version of the American dream. This is where I found was really

25:26

interesting. You finally find security in terms of a job.

25:30

You're passing the streets you used to live on in a suit, and you

25:34

surrender all that security to go to a startup. And if you're somebody

25:38

that I have to believe that most of your life, you could never plant roots,

25:41

whether you're a tumbleweed on somebody's couch or on, you know, your shopping cart is

25:45

your only possession. I was surprised that you made that move. Well,

25:49

the thing about being on the streets and homeless and having a

25:53

shopping cart as your vocation, it is entrepreneurial. I

25:56

have been an entrepreneur since my kool 1st kool aid stand when I was 4

26:00

and a half years old. So I can thrive in an

26:03

organization and bring something to that. But I think that I've

26:07

always had that one, it's sort of the lone wolf

26:11

piece, which is good and bad. It's it's it's it's been

26:15

great because I always seek out sort of driving my own

26:18

bus. It's been difficult when we're trying to build bigger things because

26:22

that level of collaboration and trusting others doesn't come naturally.

26:26

But, yeah, I think that I've I've I've been fortunate and

26:30

and always been a little entrepreneurial and and

26:33

leaning on that sort of sales, stuff. I also

26:37

I'm I'm creative. I like to build. I like to look at something and say,

26:41

hey. What could we do here? And I think that was an element that

26:45

that really lent itself well into the development of Mindware Design. So

26:49

the next move on the chessboard is that, you know, you've had success, you've

26:53

built this business, and then you decide to really become that

26:56

lone wolf again. You're gonna build your brand in terms of motivational

27:00

speaking, you're gonna build your brand in terms of advocacy, but this is gonna be

27:04

on your terms. So what prompted that move? Because

27:08

again, I I'm just fascinated by how this

27:11

trajectory and how you've become one of the most successful speakers, arguably,

27:15

in Canada, if not around the world. I mean, I've read the reviews. People love

27:18

what you have to say, but that again was I'm leaving that

27:22

thing I built to was it just the need to to say

27:26

I'd rather be the lone wolf Takeaways have to deal with trust issues?

27:29

No. It was actually something completely different. It was purpose and

27:33

passion. So I had some big setbacks in

27:37

Three. And I also, my daughter was born in oh Three.

27:40

And so I had this sort of existential moment where I was doing 60, 70

27:44

hours building this business. And I

27:48

wasn't happy. I, I required all that stuff. I got all the, you know, the

27:51

things to hang on the wall and the fancy German car and I got it

27:55

all, But I wasn't Tony more fulfilled. And so I I said, I

27:59

wanna do I wanna do something that

28:03

that drives my purpose and passion. I was fortunate. Peter, Doctor. Peter Legg

28:07

was my mentor and he's a speaker. And,

28:11

and so was, so was Mike Ballard. He was somebody who was in my life

28:14

early. And, and so in Three, I pulled the plug in and decided

28:18

to distance myself from the company. And I, how it

28:21

started though, Tony wasn't like, I'm going to go out and be a motivational speaker.

28:26

I started to speak to kids in schools. I started to go to alt class.

28:29

I started to go into institutions, and then that led to chambers of commerce.

28:33

And then that led to me being invited to speak in municipal

28:36

and and share lived experience in various different places for people trying to wrap their

28:40

head around policy and and different things. And and then I

28:44

wrote the book, and that's when it then then I got invited to

28:47

do sort of the professional association conference stuff.

28:51

But it was, it was a, it was an evolution that

28:55

started with me just really wanting to get in front of young people and say,

28:59

Hey, there's some potholes up ahead. I've been down. I've been up the

29:03

road. And I'd like to tell you about a couple of these holes.

29:07

Because you know, back in the day, I was the kind of guy who wanted

29:10

something from you. Today, I wants I want something for people. I want people

29:14

to understand their unlimited, untapped possibility and potential,

29:17

especially young people. I mean, when I think about your dad and then

29:21

Gus and then the officers, Scott McCloud, do you think

29:25

that you're also carrying their footsteps as well when you decide

29:28

that being an advocate, I wanna sit on those park benches

29:32

and help the next? So was it part of that, like that you felt that

29:36

you had a greater calling? Because, or is it more just, I realized

29:40

that I could make an impact with kids and I enjoy doing that, therefore, that

29:44

that's what I was gonna focus on. I think in the beginning, that's what it

29:47

was. Yeah. It's like it's it's it's kinda

29:51

like, Key. You've got it. Go help others get it.

29:54

It's really not more complex than that. And it did I think it's a thing

29:58

of gratitude. On the selfish side of things, there's it feels good. I

30:02

mean, who who doesn't want to have an impact? I mean, one of the questions

30:06

I ask people is if you had 10 minutes with a with a gym full

30:08

of high school students, what would you tell them? What have you learned along the

30:12

way? This really good life experience that you could tell. And I think

30:16

that all of us intrinsically want to do good. I don't

30:19

think the world is filled with selfish people. I think the world is filled with

30:23

people who really care deeply about stuff. Just don't know how to hitch their wagon

30:27

to it. You know, it evolved from there with

30:30

the business experience for me to be relevant in the corporate world.

30:34

Because it now wasn't just, you know, Joe pushing a shopping cart. It was, how

30:38

do you extract ideas from this to help people deal with and

30:42

navigate change and challenge? How do you help people be more

30:45

productive? You know, it's like surviving the streets

30:49

and then doing doing what we're gonna talk about here in a minute, the Walk

30:53

for the hub listeners. Yeah. The walk across Canada point

30:56

to high performance. So what are the pieces? How do you tap into that?

31:00

How do you lead through that? How do you parent through that? How do you

31:03

draw possibilities? So Gus had a conversation with me. Great. What's the

31:07

formula to teach people to be able to access their possibility?

31:11

Tragedy of life isn't that it ends too soon. It's we wait too long to

31:14

begin it because of fear, and we don't know the formula. But when a

31:17

gust comes along or somebody comes along and says, here, try this, try this, try

31:20

this. I've run into people 10 years later, and they're like, oh, I did that

31:24

thing and I had this result. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And it's like,

31:27

hey. Hey. It's not me. I just gave you the the instructions. You stirred the

31:31

pot and made, you know, made that beautiful thing. So before we get into the

31:35

walk across Canada, what what is the formula then? Because there's a lot of

31:39

people feeling overpowered by negativity, growing sense of

31:42

impossibility. What what can you say? And I'm not just talking about kids. I'm

31:46

talking across society right now. You know, I put a lot of blame

31:50

on social media because I think it holds people's attention

31:54

by the negative and the conspiracies. So, what can you offer people

31:57

to say, if I thought about this, maybe I would think differently?

32:02

Simplicity on the other side of complexity. There are Three things that we need to

32:05

manage to do whatever it is that we're we wanna

32:09

do in life. So whatever you wanna do is your possibility. So

32:12

whatever that is, think about something that you wanna do, a legacy project, a

32:16

mark that you wanna make. That's your possibility, or or you

32:20

can call it a goal. There are Three things that one needs to manage going

32:23

forward. 1 are the actions. What are the footsteps? What are the steps that

32:27

we need to take? Sometimes coaching, getting outside influence, inter

32:31

inter informational interviews. You gotta figure out what you need to do.

32:35

Number 2 is the inspiration. Right? What is the

32:38

purpose of driving reason that'll keep your feet

32:42

in in motion? So you need something to drive action,

32:45

because action drops off. Think of New Year's resolutions. Why don't they succeed?

32:49

I I don't think it's that you don't know what to do. You know what

32:52

to do. You've just lost the motivation because you haven't tethered into

32:56

a greater sense of why. And then 3 is roadblocks.

33:00

So it's a, I, and r. R is the

33:03

roadblock. And roadblocks split into 2 areas, Tony. There's

33:07

there's situational roadblocks. We live in a world right now that is just

33:11

right with situational roadblock. 2 wars, social media, division

33:15

in politics, interest rates, housing prices, opioid, like, go on

33:19

and on and on and on. And those things that impact us internally in the

33:22

internal roadblocks. What stories do our we tell ourselves?

33:26

Right? So it's so easy to get stuck in the emotional

33:30

ether, and then not take the actions or connect to Three

33:33

inspiration. We've got to rise above that. And and and what's interesting

33:37

about this model is is it's actually not mine. It's doctor Sean

33:41

Richardson. He was the he was the guy who coached me and got me

33:45

prepared and encouraged me to do this unthinkable walk across

33:48

Canada. Anytime we take a look at something, it's

33:51

so easy to go down that wormhole of the

33:55

emotional burden of the world that we live in today. Yeah?

34:01

But that's when we start looking at the world through probability, not

34:04

possibility. And so all of that AIR has

34:08

to be built on a foundation of possibility. A

34:11

possibility mindset is looking at ourselves to the world around us and

34:15

not asking what's likely gonna come next, but ask what could come

34:19

next. We spend so much time, you know, saying that if

34:23

I fail? What if we succeed? Right?

34:26

And so it's it's not to wash away the fact that these

34:30

things out there have negative impacts on us. It's to continue to stay

34:34

in action connected to our sense of why, moving towards something that's

34:37

important to us, and navigate those situational and

34:41

psychological world lives. When we do that, what I've just explained is the road

34:45

to the Stanley Cup, is the road to an Olympic medal. It's the very thing

34:48

that drove Terry Fox or Nelson Mandela. It's the thing that

34:52

that that inspires us in great leaders and great entrepreneurial Three,

34:56

because Three they somehow managed to keep going. And this is

34:59

what doctor Carol Dweck talked about in growth versus fit fixed

35:03

mindset when she studied kids. The the best thing that we can do as parents

35:07

and as leaders is to coach and mentor the

35:10

steps forward in the face of negative emotion because that's when

35:14

we discover that potential or possibility.

35:19

That idea of hope and the role that it plays in our

35:23

lives individually, but I would also argue collectively. Like, do we feel like She joins

35:32

She joins me at the end of the show, and I encourage you to stick

35:35

around because she focuses on a word that I think matters to all of

35:39

us, and that word is possibilities. And when we return,

35:43

Joe and I talk more about the push for change and how he kept

35:46

his promise that if given a second chance, he would pay it forward. And pay

35:50

it Key did by walking over 9,000 kilometers.

35:57

I want to give a big shout out to RBC for powering ideas for

36:00

people and planet. Starting in November 2024,

36:04

RBC and the RBC Foundation are making a commitment of $2,000,000,000

36:09

in community investments by 2,035. And the

36:12

RBC purpose framework is built on 3 pillars to support individual,

36:16

community and economic growth. The first, accelerating

36:20

the transition to a greener economy, including identifying,

36:24

financing, and scaling innovative climate technologies and supporting

36:27

nature based solutions. 2nd, to equip people

36:31

with what they need for their future by improving access to skills,

36:35

training, and resources. And last but not least, to drive more

36:39

prosperity in our communities by fostering inclusivity

36:42

and access to equitable opportunities. Powering ideas for

36:46

people and the planet will help address the challenges of today and

36:50

improve our individual and collective abilities to thrive and prosper.

36:54

And that matters to you, to me, and to RBC.

36:59

That gives us, influence and resources

37:03

that others don't have. So how do we use that? And how do we use

37:05

our business to help drive the positive changes

37:09

in society and the environment that we know we need for us all to

37:13

be better? You're listening to Chatter That Matters with Tony

37:17

Chapman presented by RBC. Those were the words from Andrea Barrett,

37:21

and she'll join me later in the show to talk about a purpose framework, Three

37:25

pillars that I believe that we can stand on

37:28

individually and collectively to make Canada a better place

37:32

to be. Let's get back to Joe Roberts, the

37:36

Skid Row CEO, and a hero's journey from the

37:39

streets of Vancouver to being a Yoda to so many.

37:44

The push for change was about a promise Joe Roberts made and kept to support

37:48

vulnerable young people. That's why I think it was so successful.

37:51

By committing to walk across Canada, Joe and the team push for change

37:55

inspired a nation into action. What was inspiring was how

37:59

tens of thousands of people joined the campaign and contributed

38:03

their individual promises. Now the other thing that caught my

38:06

attention is walk through homelessness, which was this

38:10

crazy, must it how did that thought explain what it is and how

38:14

it came about. Sure. So I had a deep passion for

38:18

wanting to do something and pay it for. Remember that on that street corner, the

38:21

day I sold my boots, I made a promise to pay it forward. If I

38:24

got a second chance. So fast forward, 15 years, I'm on an airplane

38:28

ride into Calgary with Sean, Doctor. Sean Richardson, former Olympic

38:31

athlete. He and I were doing work together as, as consulting management,

38:35

gig that we were doing. And I said, Sean, I wanna do something to raise

38:39

awareness for our vulnerable kids in this country. So they

38:43

don't end up pushing a shopping cart. And Sean says, well, when Canadians wanna raise

38:47

money, they run across the country. Why don't you run across Canada, Joe? And I

38:51

says, why don't don't you run across Canada? You know, the last thing I

38:54

was a 45 year old non Three who filled grade 9 and grade 10 gym.

38:58

Last thing I was gonna do is run across Canada. But then he said something.

39:01

He tapped into my I, my why. He says, Joe, when you talk to people,

39:06

they never leave the room the same way as they came in. What if you

39:09

walked across Canada and shared your message with kids and

39:12

stakeholders and and and police and and and,

39:16

municipal, provincial, federal government? And along the way, you could talk about

39:20

the change that you're trying to push for. And it was and I said,

39:24

Key, well, how would it be different? What's my value proposition differential? Right. You'll appreciate

39:27

that as a marketer. How is this going to be unique to other things that

39:31

are out there? He says, I got it. He says, why don't you push a

39:34

shopping cart? It's a symbol of chronic homelessness. And I

39:38

remember Tony, the hair on my neck went up and I went, I got to

39:41

explore this thing. So that was the Genesis. Over the

39:44

next 3 years, we built a shop and cart. I did a walk from Calgary

39:48

to Vancouver as a warm up. We went out and raised $1,000,000.

39:52

But when I tell the story, the arc of the story is the hero's

39:56

journey. We had 37 show stopping

39:59

challenges that we had to navigate in order to get to day 1

40:03

in in Saint John's, Newfoundland before we even had a shot at

40:07

being able to engage the country. And but we slowly we

40:10

connected to that sense of purpose. We kept our feet in motion, and eventually

40:14

that first day came. On May 1, 2016, I started

40:18

a 9,000 kilometer 17 month continuous walk,

40:22

pushing a shopping cart. And that the biggest thing that we

40:26

were advocating for was raising

40:29

awareness and money to support vulnerable kids, to give

40:33

them the resources before they cycle out of school, before

40:37

they leave home, before they end up under the

40:41

Spadina Viaduct or the Georgia Viaduct, before they get wrapped up

40:44

into to substance use disorder or all the other dangerous

40:48

and nasty things that are waiting for them. And so that was the the

40:52

beginning. We weren't sure how the country was gonna react, but,

40:57

you know, I remember walking into Three, and I come

41:01

across the the bridge just east of, Ottawa,

41:04

a little place called Hawkesbury. And there was about a 1,000 people waiting

41:08

for us. The Ontario Provincial Police was our charity, our community safety

41:12

partner, and they were waiting. And as I got down the bridge, I I recognized

41:16

somebody who was the greatest hockey dad in the world, Walter Gretzky.

41:19

And I knew, I knew Ontario was gonna be special that it

41:23

was. We raised 100 of 1,000

41:27

of dollars. We we raised awareness, but the biggest piece that came out of

41:30

it was we got to engage over a 100000

41:34

kids, from coast to coast. And and I'll tell you something.

41:37

What they were doing inspired us. A lot of times, you know, we we

41:41

bang on on young people and say, you know, you're they're just not like we

41:44

were. But I think it's it's not so much apathy as not knowing

41:48

how to plug into something. And we gave them an opportunity to engage with

41:52

us. And I'm telling you, the things they did just

41:56

inspired the heck out of us. It was the thing that kept me going on

41:59

on really tough days. My dad was born in Hawkes Barre. Oh,

42:03

wow. So it's, when you said that, that brought a smile to my face.

42:06

And, you know, listen, I spend a lot of time with young people as

42:10

well. I couldn't agree more. I mean, there's there's phenomenal

42:13

opportunity. They are masters of their tools. Three legacy,

42:18

but Key Now that said, I'm just getting going. You wanna

42:25

legacy, but you're now you've said, I'm just getting going. You wanna

42:29

you wanna inspire 10,000,000 people, speak at a 1,000

42:33

conferences. Tell me how that putting a numerical goal, was

42:37

that the action that you needed in this case to say what's next for me?

42:41

I think it's just about dangling carrots. You know, it doesn't matter

42:45

if I get a 1,000 events. I honestly, what it comes down to

42:48

is my why or my bliss is when I stand in front of a group

42:52

of people. I don't care who they are, whether they're police leaders or,

42:55

it's a safety conference or it's a sales conference or it's students.

43:00

To get them to put their hand in their pocket and pull out and see

43:03

this thing that they've always had And and to tell

43:07

them what Gus told me on that park bench, that there's more to you than

43:10

you can see. I just wanna spend the time that I have left being

43:14

like Gus, to encourage, to get people's feet

43:18

moving because when they do, that's when they discover they're extraordinary.

43:21

I'm not special. I just had somebody encourage me to get up off that park

43:25

bench and take some steps forward. I was lucky enough to have mom and Gus

43:28

and Scott McLeod. And so today, I just I just run around and,

43:32

you know, the a lot of what I do is inspirational keynote speaking. I close

43:36

a lot of events, but it's not just the inspiration, it's the application.

43:40

Because if they have me around for the second piece, which is the workshop, now

43:44

I can actually unpack that air model and say, here, take this and

43:47

run with it. And, you know, I've been sharing my story

43:51

since 98, since before we had the quote unquote

43:54

mental health category of speaker. Back that, we were

43:58

adversity speakers. And that's that's

44:02

all I wanna do, you know, that and and the work that we're doing with

44:05

the foundation and kids. When you said you took something out of your pocket, everybody

44:09

has it. What were you what was your referencing? About individual

44:12

potential. We walk around with stories about who we

44:16

are and how we fit into the world. And most of them aren't accurate. They're

44:20

illusions. But they keep us small. And

44:23

so we see the world through that story and narrative and through

44:27

a history of potential and possibility

44:30

against probability. Let me give you an example.

44:34

There's probably a marathon in you, but if you've never really

44:38

trained or done that, what's the likelihood that you

44:41

could run a marathon? So if I asked you to run a marathon in 6

44:44

months, you'd be like, no. I I don't I'm not gonna do that. It's just

44:48

not something so your probability brain looks at it and says that that's not something

44:52

that's gonna be in my future. But if I frame the question differently and

44:55

said, your life depends on it, now you begin to think through

44:59

that process of possibility. Each of us

45:02

that, you know, Dave Goggin says that when we're, you know, when we're at our

45:06

limit, we're only at 40%. The thing that I've learned by leaning

45:10

into life and doing things that are outside of my comfort zone

45:14

is that there's so much more potential. So that what's in our

45:18

pocket is a lot more than we realize.

45:22

And if we'd simply get up off of whatever bench we're sitting on and

45:26

take a few courageous steps forward, we could realize

45:29

that. You've said many occasions in this interview, you know, I'm just a

45:33

normal guy or I I if I hadn't met Scott or met

45:36

Gus. But Rick Chapman, who's been on my show, Chatter That Matters,

45:40

I love what he wrote Chatter hearing you. Joe's story reminds us in the power

45:44

of believing that anything is possible. It is testament to the strengths of the human

45:48

spirit and what you can achieve when you set your mind to it. Now this

45:51

is a guy that wheel chaired around the world, so I would say to you

45:54

that he doesn't make statements like this off the cuff. You

45:58

must be feeling very happy with

46:01

the higher purpose you have in this life, not

46:05

necessarily by how many conferences you've done, but how many

46:08

people Chatter hearing you feel the way that Rick Hansen feels?

46:12

Yeah. I do, but it's always

46:15

next. You know, it's like, I don't look in the rear view as much. I

46:18

get I get honored by, you know, Canadian

46:22

heroes and legacy, folks like Rick, by the

46:26

way, Rick, I've known him for a long, long

46:29

time. Just a wonderful, warm guy. When I was writing that

46:33

first book, he gave me that little note to put on the back of the

46:36

book. But but when we were building the campaign,

46:40

we actually did a think tank and and folks from the Rick Hansen Foundation

46:44

who had just finished the 25 year anniversary relay came and

46:48

sat with us and and and and fed us really great information.

46:54

Look, I just I wanna I wanna take all of that stuff that happened

46:57

back there and squeeze as much good out of it as possible. So, Joe, you

47:01

don't look in your rear view mirror. My last question is when you look through

47:04

the the the windshield, what's next for you? More global stuff.

47:08

We we our next year is exciting. In a in a few weeks, we've

47:12

got global commissioners from police organizations from around the world

47:15

descending into Vancouver. I wanna I wanna

47:19

speak and impact as many people as possible.

47:23

I love leadership. I I love the idea that we can

47:27

influence and impact other human beings to be a better version of

47:30

themselves. I wanna be an encourager. And so I think it's just more of the

47:34

same, and and doing it in a way where, I'm getting a lot

47:38

of joy and and bliss out of it. So having an impact, bringing value.

47:42

Right? But but doing that stuff. And I think some of that, Tony,

47:45

is doing the stuff, not doing the stuff that doesn't Doesn't matter.

47:49

Yeah. And is your mom still with you? Yeah. She's Three.

47:53

And, she drives. She's still in she's she lives in Burnaby,

47:57

so stay out of Burnaby. So, you know, I always end

48:00

my show with my Three takeaways, and this one's a tough one because

48:04

I've been writing so many little notes and stuff. But I'm gonna

48:08

tell you that the most important thing one of the most important

48:12

actions I've heard on Chatter that matters, I'm over 225

48:15

episodes, was how you described your mom's hug.

48:19

And she saw past the blisters on my

48:22

face, the skeleton of a son that she want new. And she said,

48:27

gave you that hug and said, let's get you home, son. We all need

48:30

a hug like that. And in your case, that

48:34

hug must have been something that just radiated through you that

48:37

someone still loved you and cared about you. The second is just how

48:41

important you know, you talk about the hero's journey, and I'm a a huge fan

48:45

of storytelling. And to me, the the protagonist is

48:48

often, you know, portrayed as the hero, but it's the mentor along the way, the

48:52

Yoda, the fairy godmother, best friend that tells you in a rom

48:56

com, you're marrying the wrong person. And then yours was your dad and

48:59

Scott and Gus, and now you're that parole. You know,

49:03

you're the person that's going out and being the Gandalf convincing

49:07

Frodo that they put your feet and start moving, and you can go on in

49:11

a a question adventure. So that's a wonderful, wonderful place to

49:14

be because you're helping others get to where they need, want, and

49:18

deserve to go. And and to me, that's the highest purpose we can have as

49:21

humans. And then the third one was just your the simplicity of

49:25

your model of, you know, Three, then

49:29

take action and stay inspired and understand that

49:32

roadblocks are part of it. The fact that, you know, people can walk

49:36

away not just feeling wonderful that they heard a great speaker, but

49:40

actually walking away and start applying the simplicity of your

49:44

model to their life. For all that and more, I am just

49:48

delighted that you, you join me in Chatter That Matters. I'm glad I was

49:51

able to. You know, the first point that you made is is probably

49:55

that crux of, what I'm trying to do as far

49:59

as addressing the issue of homelessness, mental health, and substance

50:02

use disorder. People ask me, Joe, what was it like to be homeless? What was

50:06

it? Look, and then and then they'll ask me, should I give somebody a dollar?

50:09

Should I? Do what your heart calls you to do. Our family

50:13

supports fiscally responsible organizations that are able to meet the needs. But the greatest

50:17

thing I think we can do, Tony, is ask the empathic question, what

50:21

happened before that happened? If we look through that lens

50:24

like mom and are able to be like mom or like

50:28

Gus, empathic in our perspective of what's actually

50:31

happening in the world around us. I think that

50:35

that's one of the steps that we need to move to create long term systemic

50:39

change. Robert Schuller said that

50:43

tough times never last, but tough people do.

50:47

And I learned to take my past and not let it

50:51

dictate who I was, but let it be a part of who I wanted to

50:55

become. All of us are human, we're all gonna

50:58

fall down from time to time, but the good news about falling down

51:02

is when you're down, you don't have to be

51:06

up to look up.

51:14

Returning to my show is Andrea Barrick. She's a senior vice president, corporate

51:18

citizenship and ESG at RBC. I encourage you to follow her on

51:22

LinkedIn. She's had this diverse career path, roles in health care, the

51:26

public sector, and in politics, but she always finds this common

51:30

theme in each of her roles in terms of creating, amplifying,

51:34

and executing ideas to help organizations build a better world.

51:38

So, Andrew, I'm gonna get a little bit more into what you're doing with RBC

51:41

and your purpose framework. But first, I just context. Joe

51:44

Roberts, the Skid Row Key. I mean, what a

51:48

story. I mean, this is a Key, broken home, gets thrown

51:52

out, homeless, down that path of sort of drugs and alcohol just

51:56

to survive a day on the streets in Vancouver. And then a social

51:59

worker sits on a bench one day and looks at him and says, you know,

52:02

you're more than you think you are. And he breaks down. He calls his mom,

52:06

rescues him. And over quite a long period of time, he he

52:10

becomes clean, goes back to school, becomes a Key,

52:14

and now today spends most of his time talking to people

52:18

that really need that message that he got on the bench. The

52:22

sad thing, though, he isn't an anomaly, is he? This is the kind of story

52:25

that we seem to be hearing more and more in Canada. Yeah. And what I

52:29

love about that, it is just it highlights how much it's

52:32

important to be able to imagine

52:36

possibility. Right? That idea of hope and

52:40

the role that it plays in our lives individually, but I would

52:43

also argue collectively. Like, do we feel like

52:47

we can have a better future than the one we've got now? Do we

52:51

set ambition? You know, we're gonna talk about

52:54

RBC and, you know, what what the corporate ambition is. But, you know,

52:58

there's there's individual ambition. It it translates to then the

53:02

ambition of a community or or something more local and and then kind of

53:05

can broaden from there. And in that story,

53:09

it is that social worker that had the ability to

53:13

break through and remind him of

53:16

his own possibility. Right? And and, I think there's just so much

53:20

room for all of us to think about not only just

53:24

individually for ourselves, but how do we help do that to Matters? Whether they be

53:27

our staff, people who are on our team, whether they be our neighbors, whether they

53:31

be our kids who are driving us crazy, but actually, you know, that

53:35

they've got, they've got room to grow and reach a different

53:38

potential. I think for the average person, when they think of RBC, they think of

53:42

you obviously as a bank. Most Canadians have some type of

53:46

financial relationship, and they also think about the big things you do, the Taylor Swifts

53:49

and the the TIF and the golf. But what I am so

53:53

proud of, and I have the inside track as I work with that organization on

53:56

a weekly basis, is what RBC's purpose framework,

54:01

empowering ideas for people in the planet. You're the best to explain

54:04

it because you've been all over the world talking about it, but just share with

54:07

my listeners what RBC is doing in some ways to be

54:11

that person on the park bench, but it with scale. Listen. At RBC,

54:15

we take the responsibility Key have serious. We're the largest corporation in

54:19

Canada. We're a, you know, majorly significant bank globally, and

54:22

that gives us, influence and resources

54:26

that others don't have. So how do we use that? And how do we use

54:29

our business to help drive the positive changes

54:33

in society and the environment that we know we need for us all to

54:37

be better. Right? And and so I think with RBC, you know,

54:41

the purpose you know, we have a purpose at RBC, which is to

54:44

help clients thrive and communities prosper. And we think we can

54:48

do both at once. We don't have to trade off one for the

54:52

other. And so the purpose framework really is an

54:55

articulation of how do we do that? So we said,

54:59

oh, you know, what are the societal challenges that impact our business

55:03

today, but in the future? Well, it's environmental

55:07

crisis. It's this rapidly changing workforce. It's

55:10

growing inequalities in our society. I mean, that affects all of us,

55:14

but it affects our the business that we're in as well. So we set these

55:18

Three ambitions, focusing on both people and planet,

55:22

and and sort of decided to put some resources and money

55:25

and energy and our people behind making that happen.

55:29

Now I heard there's a big number. I wanna make sure I have it right.

55:33

So what's the plan in terms of the next 10 years that RBC and

55:36

the RBC Foundation's investing against this? Yeah. So I mean, in sort

55:40

of back up to say that purpose framework actually is about everything

55:44

we do. It's about how we use our products and services.

55:48

It's about how we use the advice we give to businesses. It's about our

55:51

people, our own operations. But community investments

55:55

is a very visible and public way that we can demonstrate

55:59

how we're making a difference. And so we set a target for

56:03

2,000,000,000 by 2,035 to help

56:06

accelerate the transition to a greener economy, to help invest in skills

56:10

for the thriving future, and to really try to drive more

56:14

equitable prosperity in our communities. What's the narratives of the

56:18

individuals listening and getting involved and getting

56:21

engaged realize that these Three pillars are

56:25

pillars that we can stand on as a country to grow our top

56:29

line versus just simply being something that might benefit, for example, your

56:32

bottom line. For sure. Well, I mean, ideally, as I said, that's that's the trick

56:36

in, you know, jobs like mine is you have to do both.

56:40

You know, RBC is able to make commitments like that $2,000,000,000

56:43

because we run a successful business. And so Key need to be

56:47

able to run a successful business for us to have the resource and

56:51

have the influence to drive the change that we see possible

56:54

in the world. And, you know, different companies have

56:58

different cultures, I would say. And, at RBC,

57:02

I've been there about 19 months, as you know, and one of the things

57:05

that really attracted me to the organization is that from

57:09

the board and the CEO all the way throughout the organization is people really

57:13

believe in doing the right thing. That that's why they wanna join RBC. That's why

57:17

they stay at RBC. And in fact, our team, you know, we run community

57:21

engagement and volunteers, and we can't find enough opportunities to meet the

57:24

demand for our employees who wanna get involved in helping. Like, we actually need sort

57:28

of more more things for them to do. And so I do feel like

57:32

it's not just a headline about a big number. It's really just

57:36

in the DNA of the culture of RBC. What advice can

57:40

you give to individual Canadians, small business

57:43

owners that might not have your resources, but wanna do their part

57:47

to where you're focused on in terms of the environment and making sure the

57:50

kids have that sense of possibility and going into some

57:54

neighborhoods that really deserve to have the playing field level. What what

57:58

can we do to support what you're doing? Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of

58:01

different things that I'll touch on. 1 is at the individual level, because I think

58:05

that is universal. We are all individuals. So, like, let's look

58:09

around. What are the networks that we have? Who are we connected to in our

58:12

community? Do we, you know, I I think one of the things that I've

58:15

learned over the years is sometimes we're not even aware of the real issues that

58:19

are facing our communities. I actually learned that through politics, Tony, when I knocked

58:23

on over 10,000 doors because I got to hear from real people who

58:27

live lives that are different than mine. Right? And so, I think just actually really

58:30

trying to be curious about the communities that we're in, the

58:34

network they're in, what are people going through makes a difference. And then there's the

58:38

choices that we make, you know, like on the environmental front. Could

58:41

we throw in a meatless Monday? Could we

58:45

not have bottled water and instead just, you know, use the tap? Because

58:49

actually, you know, most places in Canada create tap water anyway.

58:53

Are we looking at could we replace our furnace with a heat pump instead? So,

58:57

you know, there are small choices of things that we can do in our individual

59:00

lives. Who, you know, I have to acknowledge have had a bit of a rough time

59:13

of it with COVID and inflation and cost of,

59:17

everything. But, you know, in their own operations, are that,

59:20

you know, who do they buy from? You know? Are they ordering lunch

59:24

from maybe even a new immigrant to, you know, the

59:27

city? Like that makes it, you know, like where you put your business makes a

59:31

difference. So I think there's things that, you know, we look across that we can

59:34

all do regardless of where we are in our

59:37

communities or in our companies that, that will sort of further our

59:41

own values, which is what this is really about. I Tony you before, and

59:45

I'll tell you again, you must come on and be my primary guest in the

59:48

show. I know you're reluctant to do it because you have such your own beautiful

59:51

story, but I just think that your words are words of

59:55

encouragement that there's organizations doing their part and more

59:58

importantly, some fantastic words of wisdom in terms of what we can do our

1:00:02

part. Because I think if collectively, if we rally behind what you've

1:00:06

really rallied behind, treating our planet with love,

1:00:09

treating each other with love, helping the young kids feel about talk about

1:00:13

possibility, and really just understanding that the more we

1:00:17

level the playing field, the better we'll all be. I think if we all take

1:00:20

that to heart, I think we'll be better as individuals in a in a better

1:00:24

country. So I thank you for joining me in Chatter That Matters. Well, thank you

1:00:26

for spreading the word, Tony. It's always a pleasure. We appreciate the amplification of those