0:00

It's time to gather loved ones together for

0:02

all the holiday's best spread. Linz

0:04

has great prices on all your

0:07

favorite Thanksgiving items. From delicious turkey

0:09

with all the fixings, to mashed

0:11

potatoes and yummy pies. We have

0:13

everything you need to create your

0:15

perfect Thanksgiving dinner. Whether it's cooking

0:17

the traditional meal, completely store-bought, or

0:20

a combination of both, your best

0:22

holiday meal starts here. Learn more

0:24

and start shopping today at linzgrocery.com.

0:27

Linz, where delicious begins.

0:51

Hello and welcome to Citation Needed, the podcast where

0:54

we choose a subject, read a single article about it

0:56

on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the

0:58

internet and that's how it works now. I'm Noah and

1:00

I'm going to be leading this excavation, but digging is

1:02

hard and I don't want to do it, so I

1:05

brought along a few strong backs. First up, two guys

1:07

who assumed X mark in the spot meant that they

1:09

were going to find porn there, Cecil and he. Well

1:12

Noah, with enough lube everything is porn.

1:15

Okay, all right. With enough porn

1:17

everything is lube? Philosophical,

1:22

I like it. And

1:24

also joining us tonight, two men who got kicked off

1:27

their last dig site for screaming bone fight every time

1:29

they found anything, Tom and Eli. Okay, but if you

1:31

don't announce it, how will everyone know it's okay to

1:33

join it? And we

1:35

brought our own skeletons from home.

1:37

It's bullshit. And

1:41

before we get going tonight, I want to remind you

1:43

that pretending to know about shit is a really hard

1:45

field to break into, so if this falls apart, we're

1:48

all the way fucked. Yeah. Right, this doesn't help on

1:50

a resume, which is why we love our patrons so

1:52

much. If you'd like to become a patron, you should

1:54

be sure to stick around to the end of the

1:56

show. And with that out of the way, tell us

1:58

Eli, what person placed. Oh,

20:00

is this the woke version of semen? Because if

20:03

it is, I'm a Republican now. This is my

20:05

line. This

20:07

is a group of possibly marauding,

20:10

possibly migrating boat warriors that laid

20:12

waste to several kingdoms during this

20:14

time. We know this

20:16

because there is mention of these

20:18

people who were actually a confederation

20:21

of people rather than one group

20:23

or nation in letters between these

20:25

rulers. Ramses III names these people

20:27

in records and says that they

20:29

were the shardana, the shekelesh, the

20:32

jekker, the denyun, the

20:34

weshesh, and the pelisset. Now

20:37

these words obviously meant something to Ramses, but we

20:39

have no idea who these people are today. Okay,

20:41

you need the slur word Rosetta Stone

20:44

to figure out who Rams. I

20:47

feel like, well Eli probably knows it. I feel like it

20:49

was something like, you know, schmurr for Empire. Let

20:53

me check in my notebook. Move

20:55

on, I'll let you know. Now

20:59

we do know what they look like.

21:06

We do know what they look like

21:08

because Ramses III has an image of

21:10

captured sea peoples on his temple in

21:13

Medinet Haboo. They had some

21:15

kind of decorative headdress or helmet. Some of

21:17

these people had helmets with horns. Okay, wait

21:19

a minute. They were invaded

21:21

by the royal order of water buffalo

21:23

from the Flintstones. That's our going theory

21:26

right now. They're

21:28

just in a boat. Their legs are out the bottom and

21:30

they're running as fast as they can. One

21:33

of them also on this picture, one of them

21:36

also clearly has a dislocated shoulder because human

21:38

upper bodies aren't supposed to move like

21:40

that. But in any

21:42

case, we have Ramses III account of how

21:44

he whooped the shit out of this group

21:47

of people. We did so

21:49

a couple of times and we

21:51

can read his account of this

21:53

battle. Quote, the chiefs, the captains

21:55

of infantry, the nobles, I caused

21:57

to equip the river mouths like

21:59

a strong wall. with warships, galleys,

22:01

and barges. They were manned

22:03

completely from bow to stern with valiant

22:05

warriors bearing their arms, soldiers

22:08

of all the choicest in Egypt.

22:10

I, King Ramses III, was made

22:12

a far striding hero, conscious of

22:14

his might, valiant to lead his

22:16

army in the day of battle.

22:18

Feels like his teleprompter's about to

22:20

go out. He's gonna start talking

22:22

about beating up a shark army

22:24

on his own. Nobody

22:26

that ever asked this question before. Those

22:30

who reached my frontier, their seed

22:32

is not. Their heart and

22:34

soul are finished forever and ever. Those

22:37

who came forward together on the sea,

22:39

the full flame was in front of

22:41

them at the river mouths while the

22:44

stockade of lances surrounded them on the

22:46

shore. They were dragged

22:48

in, enclosed and prostated on the

22:50

beach, killed and made into heaps

22:53

from tail to head. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

22:56

You feel this? He's

22:58

trying to sell this as this genius strategy, but

23:00

his plan was just line up

23:02

a bunch of boats and have more

23:04

spears than they do. Relax, Ramses III,

23:07

the third far striding hero. Have more

23:09

people as a valid strategy. I will

23:11

die on this film. It's

23:14

what we use on this podcast. But the chariots of

23:16

fire made sense. I feel like they're actually worthy. Yeah,

23:18

it is wrong. Oh yeah, probably. I didn't know what

23:20

you were humming. I was just trying to yes it.

23:22

I thought it was like the battle hymn of the

23:25

Republic. I thought it was maybe a fishing song, maybe

23:27

something was happening. No, that's the Marcias. You needed someone

23:29

in the background to do the ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch.

23:32

Yeah, that would have helped. Text

23:35

me next time. Wait, what's the battle hymn? Is that the

23:37

same? And then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

23:39

and then. There it is. Oh yeah, that's the battle hymn.

23:42

Okay, yeah. So you're

23:44

all probably thinking, wow, if he won

23:46

and turned the sea people back, then

23:48

what was the big deal? Well, Egypt

23:51

was one of the two civilizations to

23:53

actually survive the Bronze Age collapse. Other

23:55

countries did not fare as well. Ugarit,

23:58

a city on the east. Eastern coast

24:00

of the Mediterranean, just east of Cyprus,

24:03

sent several clay tablet letters to each

24:05

other, each more alarming than the last

24:07

talking about the invaders from the sea.

24:09

Quote, my father, behold, the enemy's ships

24:12

came here. My cities were burned and

24:14

they did evil things in my country.

24:16

Does my father not know that all

24:18

my troops and chariots are in the

24:21

land of Hadi and all my ships

24:23

are in the land of Luca? Thus,

24:25

the country is abandoned to itself. May

24:27

my father know it. The

24:29

seven ships of the enemy that came

24:32

here inflicted much damage on us. Dad,

24:34

you said you buy me more chariots. You

24:39

have beat up so bad by pirates. It was

24:41

the work. They were

24:43

racially diverse. Right. I

24:46

love you. Here's another

24:49

quote. Quote, love you.

24:52

Dad. To the

24:54

king. My lord. To

24:59

the king. My lord. Say

25:01

thus, I'm a Ravi, your servant.

25:03

I wrote you twice thrice three

25:05

times a lady news regarding the

25:07

enemy. I don't like missives.

25:09

I just don't like missives. May

25:12

my lord know that now the enemy

25:14

forces are stationed at Rasu and their

25:16

avant-garde forces were sent to you. Garret.

25:19

Now may my lord send me forces

25:21

and chariots and may my lord save

25:24

me from these forces of this enemy.

25:27

Okay, so I looked up the etymology and

25:30

I get it now. But when I first

25:32

read avant-garde forces and I picture this fabulously

25:34

dressed contingent of the sea people, I got

25:36

super excited. It turns out that I did

25:38

not look it up. No one I'm still

25:41

picturing a mental image of an attack from

25:43

like a like a troop

25:45

of performative dancers and black turtlenecks

25:47

and nobody. Nobody. Yeah.

25:51

That's kick jazz hands.

25:53

Torch torch. Oh

25:55

no. How did

25:58

that become avant-garde as the grab

30:00

the big scissors for this. Oh,

30:02

come on. Many researchers

30:05

that study this time period think that

30:07

all these factors combined

30:09

to collapse several large populations of

30:12

Asian people. Some of these cities

30:14

and cultures died forever and others

30:16

survived in a much more weakened

30:19

state. The Assyrian empire did survive

30:21

like this and so did the

30:23

Egyptians. Okay, the

30:25

drought is going to end soon and

30:27

the double earthquake that was bad

30:30

luck. We're going to rebuild one more

30:32

time. But you guys

30:34

are looking at me weird. There's

30:36

two cubic miles of rock in

30:39

the sky right now. Come on.

30:41

This plunged the area into a

30:44

dark age. Which was a weird

30:46

thing to mine and then make

30:48

weapons of. It's the dark. I

30:51

liked it, Tom. I liked it,

30:55

Tom. What you said they were named. I was

30:58

paying attention is what I want to

31:00

point out. You did your homework. This

31:03

was where societal communication and cooperation were

31:05

minimal. It was also around this

31:07

time that the dark ages led to

31:09

poems and stories about a golden era

31:11

of the past and myths of that

31:13

time began to circulate, which is when

31:15

we get Homer's Odyssey and Iliad. It

31:17

would be several centuries before the area

31:19

would recover, giving birth to several new

31:21

societies and city states, places like Athens

31:23

and Carthage and in

31:25

900 BCE, the citation needed mascots. The

31:28

Etruscans would burst onto the scene hoping

31:30

for a mention in a podcast. Three

31:32

millennia in the future. Okay, first of

31:34

all, we got you. I am the

31:37

mascot for this podcast, Cecil, and they

31:39

didn't burst onto the scene. They stepped

31:41

through their time traveling. Okay,

31:45

my favorite anecdote that I found while

31:47

researching this is that the ancient Greeks,

31:49

when they were looking at the runes

31:51

of Mycenae, could not believe

31:54

that humans that lived 300 to 800

31:56

years before them could move rocks that

31:58

big or build walls like that. So

32:01

instead, they thought that the

32:03

ancient Mycenaeans were helped by Cyclops. Really?

32:06

Straight to Cyclops. They

32:08

went straight to Cyclops. Straight to Cyclops.

32:10

Interesting. Did they build without depth perception?

32:13

Is that why? Just... Keep

32:15

putting on the fucking block in the wrong place.

32:17

Oops, sorry, I just... Back a little. I don't

32:20

know what back means! I

32:22

don't know what back means! What

32:25

if two of you stood next to each other? I'm not sure.

32:32

Alright, so if you had to summarize what you learned in one sentence, Cecil,

32:34

what would it be? Civilizations fail for

32:36

a lot of reasons, and you can't

32:38

take it with you, so become a

32:40

patron on a per-episode basis today. There

32:43

it is. And are you ready for

32:45

the quiz? I am. Let's

32:47

do this. Alright, Cecil,

32:49

what should historians call the

32:51

Trump era? Oh no. Hey,

32:54

he stopped the steel. The...

32:59

The Magnesium Age.

33:02

See the Cooper Age. I

33:05

like the age. Or D, the

33:08

Age of Trees of the Wall. They're

33:10

all so good, but I love the

33:12

first one. A, stop the steel age.

33:14

Correct, well done. Alright, Cecil, when

33:16

future generations, thousands of years from now,

33:18

write about our own imminent societal collapse,

33:20

what will they blame it on? A,

33:24

something Tom has been warning everyone about for

33:26

years. B,

33:29

something Noah made me read about, which has

33:31

haunted my every waking moment since. C,

33:35

something Noah made me read about, which has

33:37

haunted my every waking moment since, caused by

33:39

something Tom has been warning everyone about for

33:41

years. You

33:45

realize that this I told you so moment is going to be really

33:47

short. It is! It is! I'm getting it while I got it. It's

33:49

going to be so quick. It's getting it while it's here. So quick.

33:52

It's definitely C. It's definitely C. It's definitely

33:54

C. Secret, yeah, any of these. Really any of

33:56

these work. It's C. Oh,

33:58

sure. Yeah. It's

36:46

time to gather loved ones together for

36:48

all the holiday's best spread. Linz

36:50

has great prices on all your

36:52

favorite Thanksgiving items. From delicious turkey

36:54

with all the fixings, to mashed

36:56

potatoes and yummy pies. We have

36:59

everything you need to create your

37:01

perfect Thanksgiving dinner. Whether it's cooking

37:03

the traditional meal, completely store bought,

37:05

or a combination of both, your

37:07

best holiday meal starts here. Learn

37:09

more and start shopping today at

37:11

linzgrocery.com. Linz, where

37:14

delicious begins.