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trial today at Shopify calm records slash

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records Hello

0:52

and welcome the citation needed the

0:54

podcast where we choose a subject read a

0:56

single article about it on Wikipedia And

0:58

pretend we're experts use this to the

1:00

internet. That's how it works now I'm Eli

1:02

Bosnick and I'll be your platoon leader

1:04

tonight, but I'll need some drugged out

1:06

privates Give it up for Cecil Noah Keith

1:09

and Tom drug down privates. Sorry, sir. I

1:11

took a hit of flaccid To

1:20

keep my drugs private so I don't have to share right

1:23

yes, and I miss publicly drugged out as

1:25

one can be so Yeah,

1:28

before we begin tonight I like to take

1:31

a moment to thank our patrons patrons as

1:33

you'll learn tonight far too often The price

1:35

of freedom is higher than we'd like but

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sometimes it's as little as a dollar Commercial

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free version of every show and

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all just for you and if you'd like

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to learn how to join their ranks be sure to stick around

1:54

till the article

1:58

that's right And

2:00

if you'd like to learn how to join their

2:02

ranks, be sure to stick around until the end

2:04

of the show. And with that out of the

2:06

way, tell us, Noah, what person, place, theme, concept,

2:08

phenomenon, or event will we be talking about today?

2:11

Today we're going to be talking about the

2:13

Edgewood Experiments. And Tom, you

2:16

justified something your wife walked in on

2:18

with a citation needed as a area.

2:21

Ready to put a lock on your office

2:23

door or what? Hey, hey, hey, no shame,

2:25

Eli. If she doesn't want to see, she

2:27

can wear the cowbell I bought for just

2:29

those situations. Exactly. Tell us, Tom. So

2:34

tell us, Tom, what were the Edgewood

2:37

Experiments? All right, so

2:39

back in high school, straight to the point

2:42

again, geez. And

2:47

completely on a lark. And just really

2:49

to get out of math class, I

2:51

took the ASVAB, that is the Armed

2:54

Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. And because

2:56

it was a test, I did well on it, which

2:58

meant that for the next several

3:00

months, I was absolutely mobbed with

3:03

every imaginable military recruiting promise. And

3:05

while I never really intended to join the

3:07

military, after a while, their promises began to

3:10

sound rather appealing. And college sounded

3:13

very, very expensive. And

3:15

I will say, if my dad hadn't resoundingly forbid

3:18

it, I may have joined up. And

3:20

I thought about that narrowly dodged bullet

3:23

as I researched today's topic. Because

3:25

when you join the military, you don't

3:27

just gain access to the GI Bill,

3:30

but you relinquish many of your rights

3:32

and legal remedies. Which is why sometimes

3:34

the army consults with former Nazis to

3:36

develop incapacitating psychoactive chemical weapons and test

3:39

them on American soldiers at a little

3:41

place called the U.S. Army Edgewood Chemical

3:43

Biological Center. Okay, I know you're

3:45

describing that as a bad thing. I get that.

3:47

That is citation needed. This goes badly, I'm sure

3:49

of it. But if the army used

3:51

the right phrasing with me when I was 18,

3:54

I would have been like, oh,

3:56

new European designer drugs for

3:58

free. I

4:00

mean like here's my soul whatever in the fuck. I don't care Yeah,

4:04

based on my experience. They're screwing themselves out

4:06

of a profit No,

4:11

it's a fear drug that make yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah give it to

4:13

me So

4:15

following the Second World War a bunch

4:18

of Nazi scientists were granted visas to

4:20

come to America and work with our

4:22

scientists So they peanut butter and chocolate

4:24

collaboration of evil masterminding could take place

4:27

and as a result US military researchers

4:29

gained access to three nerve gas

4:31

agents developed by the Nazis as

4:34

Taboon salmon and Sarah sound like Lord

4:37

of the Rings characters to me Don't

4:43

And they conducted experiments using these

4:45

gases at the Edgewood facility and

4:48

at first the scientists were focused

4:50

only on the lethality of these

4:52

gases but after observing

4:54

that the gases also had psychological

4:56

effects and In

4:59

conjunction with the CIA the fine folks

5:01

at Edgewood began to shift the focus

5:03

of their experiments From creating more efficient

5:05

clouds of poison gas meant to kill

5:07

you To working on

5:10

creating more efficient clouds of poison gas

5:12

meant to drive you mad Yeah

5:14

for the record oxygen has really done the trick on

5:16

me I See

5:21

this shift away from lethality as

5:23

the primary objective was advanced by

5:25

the technical director of the facility

5:27

That's one Luther Wilson Green and

5:30

Green believed that quote Throughout

5:32

recorded history wars have been characterized

5:34

by death human misery and the

5:36

destruction of property Each major

5:38

conflict being more catastrophic than the one

5:41

preceding it I'm convinced

5:43

that it is possible by means of

5:45

the techniques of psychochemical warfare To

5:48

conquer an enemy without the wholesale killing

5:50

of his people or the

5:52

mass destruction of his property and quote

5:55

And so began the search for psychoactive

5:57

chemicals the military could use to

6:00

debilitate the enemy by destroying his

6:02

mind while leaving the

6:04

body relatively unscathed. Because

6:07

that's better. Better? Yeah.

6:10

So they were like, yeah, okay, firebombing Dresden, that

6:12

was great. But here's the thing, we were thinking,

6:14

I don't know, more like, well,

6:17

like Benny Hill at the end was in our head.

6:19

Do you do that? And

6:22

Nazi chemists were like, yeah,

6:24

I guess that's not good. Good

6:27

dog. See, who knew that

6:29

high rents and not raising the minimum wage for

6:31

15 years was the real way to crush the

6:33

soul of a nation? See? Right,

6:35

yeah, or a hot or not website that lets

6:37

you poke people. What we're saying is that the

6:40

Nazis way over thought. It just

6:42

took Twitter. The

6:45

US Department of Defense agreed that perhaps it

6:47

was, publicly stating that many, quote, forms

6:49

of chemical and allied warfare as

6:52

more humane than existing weapons. For

6:54

example, certain types of psycho chemicals

6:57

would make it possible to paralyze

6:59

temporarily entire population centers without damage

7:01

to homes and other structures, end

7:03

quote. While testimony in front

7:05

of Congress in 1959 from

7:08

General Creasy, former chief chemical officer,

7:10

indicated that provided sufficient

7:12

emphasis is put behind it, I

7:15

think the future lies in psycho

7:17

chemicals, a view which was

7:19

not without detractors. Harvard

7:22

psychiatrist, E. James Lieberman noted that,

7:25

there are moral imponderables, such as

7:27

whether insanity, temporary or

7:29

permanent, is a more humane military threat

7:31

than the usual afflictions of war. Get

7:33

the fuck out nerd. Moral and blah,

7:35

blah, blah, blah, that's you. And

7:37

get a first name, E. Fuck you. Nerd.

7:45

Well, look, I mean, the metric here is more

7:47

humane than nukes. I feel like you sign off

7:49

on a lot of fucked up shit when after

7:51

matters, right? Okay, I know this is bad, but

7:53

you're not a shadow. Why

7:57

are you crying? Alright

8:00

so here I do want to jump in and say that

8:03

there is literally no reason to believe that

8:05

the military gives any shits at all about

8:07

finding out how to conduct war in a

8:09

less than lethal way out of some like

8:13

humanitarian concern for life and

8:15

suffering. That is just patently

8:17

nonsense. And this story will

8:19

actually prove that point but

8:21

also just... just no.

8:24

The point of these debilitating

8:26

chemical agents is to allow

8:28

the military to capture territory

8:30

without damaging high value infrastructure

8:32

with conventional munitions and to

8:34

capture intelligence targets without having

8:37

killed them. Anyone

8:39

trying to sell the idea of a

8:41

kinder, gentler military misunderstands

8:43

the point of the military.

8:46

Yeah, which is to make our

8:48

nation's hottest women fighter pilots. Exactly.

8:52

I mean those are one thing. You're being too

8:55

damn cynical here. The military has all kinds of

8:57

humane reasons not to kill enemy

8:59

combatants. Like as it stands,

9:01

we have to test our psychoactive chemical weapons

9:03

on our guys for example. They

9:06

can be humanitarian. Okay, you

9:08

got it. Moral

9:12

imponderables be damned because in the

9:14

late 1940s and early 50s at

9:16

the interrogation center at Camp King

9:18

in Germany, the US Army

9:21

worked with Harvard anesthesiologist Henry

9:23

Beecher to see what happens

9:25

when you give Nazis Mescaline

9:27

and LSD and then interrogate

9:29

them. You get the Joe Rogan show.

9:31

That's it. That's it. Fold up

9:33

shop, gentlemen. We didn't get the pack up. We

9:36

did the art form we're trying to

9:38

do right now. That's it. That's

9:40

it. That's it. Fold up

9:42

shop, gentlemen. We didn't get the pack up. We did the art form we're trying to do right now.

9:45

We did the art form we're trying to do right now. That's it. That's

9:47

the best thing, man. Really sad. Bye.

10:00

All right, it's giving Nazis, Mescaline and

10:02

LSD sounds pointless. Just remember that these

10:04

were relatively new and novel. Not to

10:06

Spotify it, though. And

10:10

$250 million. No, right? And

10:14

America was convinced the Soviets, well, they

10:16

were way ahead of us on the

10:18

development of truth serums and psychoactive chemicals

10:20

as weapons of espionage and war. They

10:23

weren't, but we thought they were. And

10:25

that red scare arms race shit was

10:28

enough to accelerate the interest in developing

10:30

our own weapons of chemical psychoactive warfare.

10:32

Fun fact, the reason that we

10:35

thought that they had truth serum and

10:37

stuff was because our spies kept giving

10:39

up our secrets and turning over his

10:41

double agents. But they

10:43

just did that because it's bad here. We

10:46

literally believed in magic potions rather

10:48

than admit that maybe people wanted

10:50

to fight for the share stuff

10:53

side of the Cold War. Why

10:56

we thought that. And

10:58

of course, those weapons, they would need to be

11:01

tested, which the folks at Edgewood

11:03

were only too happy to facilitate. So from

11:05

1948 to 1975, human experimentation took place on

11:07

U.S. soldiers

11:11

to try and discover the

11:14

perfect incapacitating chemical cocktail. Over

11:17

7000 soldiers and 1000 civilian subjects had

11:19

254 known chemicals used in the U.S.

11:26

Army's search for something to debilitate

11:28

a human population at their whim.

11:32

Substances such as LSD, THC,

11:34

benzodiazepines and BZ were experimented

11:37

with as part of the

11:39

program. Hot. One of those

11:41

THC? Yeah. They just fucking

11:43

got the view. You can watch videos, by the way,

11:46

of the Edgewood. A lot of this is like video

11:48

that it's now been declassified. You can watch these people

11:51

get a lot of this stuff and like fucking rip

11:53

a bong or something. They

11:55

kind of actually seriously have like a

11:58

giant gas chamber. More

12:00

people like, they're like hot boxes.

12:03

They really sold me on this Edgewood

12:05

thing. So, man. Put

12:07

a fucking, put a Nintendo 64 in there and

12:10

he's never leave. Dude, never leave.

12:12

Imagine walking home with your buddy who

12:15

got the fear drug and you're like, oh, what did I

12:17

get? They got me a little, hi.

12:21

They got me the munchies. I don't know, do you

12:23

have the munchies? You're tearing your skin off. So

12:26

you keep hearing your dad tell you he

12:28

hates you, huh? Yeah, that's right. I'm

12:31

not an asshole. And

12:35

to the, I don't know, credit,

12:37

maybe credit, they did find

12:40

their holy grail of chemical evil. I hope

12:42

that they announced the most evil one, like

12:44

a pageant show winner. That would be amazing.

12:46

Right? Well,

12:48

I feel like 254 chemicals, that's overkill. Obviously, they're

12:51

including pot and shit in there just because they

12:53

were trying to round out to a big number.

12:56

Like somebody just got table soap,

12:58

right? So

13:03

the chemical they found is called BZ. And

13:05

this shit is beyond your wildest nightmare is

13:08

terrible, which is to say that it very

13:10

specifically works by ensuring that you will live

13:12

out your nightmares unrelentingly as

13:14

you lose your mind in an

13:16

unending bad trip for several

13:18

days. Jesus. And

13:20

so here we're gonna go down a little bit of a

13:22

rabbit hole on what BZ is and what it does. So

13:25

the US Army originally called this stuff EA2277. It's

13:29

NATO that calls it BZ. And

13:31

the Soviets also used this horror show and

13:33

they named it Substance 78. Credit

13:37

to the Soviets for always having the creepiest

13:39

name for shit, right? Oh,

13:43

and I don't know, I didn't put it in the essay, but

13:45

it is thought that Substance 78 may have

13:47

been the chemical that the Soviets used when the

13:49

Chechens took over that theater. Yes,

13:51

awesome. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's suspected that

13:53

that BZ is what they used. It's

13:56

also what they dropped on Raccoon City and fucking Resident

13:58

Evil. So,

14:02

BZ is an anticholinergic agent,

14:04

which means that it blocks

14:06

the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. And

14:08

this produces a cavalcade

14:10

of both physiological and

14:12

psychological effects known as

14:14

anticholinergic toxidrome. The most

14:16

incapacitating among these is a

14:19

state of delirium accompanied by

14:21

cognitive dysfunction, difficulty speaking

14:23

and concentrating, vivid

14:26

hallucinations, temporary blindness,

14:29

extreme anxiety and fear and

14:31

tachycardia. The medical

14:33

community, pneumonic, to remember the

14:35

symptoms of this toxidrome sums up

14:38

its horrors as, quote, mad

14:40

as a hatter, red as a beet, dry as a

14:43

bone and blind as a bat, end

14:45

quote. For real, you can

14:47

also use the pneumonic, oh

14:49

my god, what is happening to

14:51

me? Sorry, when was that pneumonic

14:53

device going to be helpful now?

14:55

Why have, like, just as General

14:58

walks in, what up, evil nerds?

15:00

Pop quiz time, give

15:02

me the order of operations in math, the

15:04

planets in order, and the terrifying

15:06

effects of our latest war crime, all three go.

15:09

When is that happening? Why would you need

15:11

to know that? I'm pictured

15:14

a doctor with a guy who's like, you know,

15:16

throwing his own feces, he's blind and he's bright

15:18

red and he's like, hold on a second, check

15:20

and see if he's dry, I might be onto something

15:22

in here. Also

15:25

Tom, if this essay ends with you telling us that BZ

15:27

is the new way you wake yourself up in the morning,

15:29

you have to come to math. Okay,

15:32

you have to. Alright,

15:34

I should mention a few other things as well.

15:36

BZ takes a few hours to take its maximum

15:38

effect, but once it has reached its peak effect,

15:41

those effects last for 36 hours or more. Nice.

15:46

Not less. Sorry, no, it's bad. It's

15:48

bad. I keep thinking drugs, but I

15:50

get it. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah,

15:52

it's terrible. I get it. So

15:54

once you're exposed to this shit, you are locked

15:56

into what is basically a very intense bad trip

15:58

and an unrelenting panic attack. for

16:01

the next day and a half or longer

16:04

with accompanying blindness and

16:06

general, you know, stagger around ice.

16:08

Jesus Christ. In my day that was called

16:10

acid, but I get it. I get it.

16:14

And it is a frighteningly useful

16:16

and easy chemical to weaponize. It

16:19

is stable in most solvents. It

16:21

persists extremely well in the soil

16:23

and on surfaces. It has a

16:25

half-life of three to four weeks

16:27

in moist air. And it easily

16:29

disperses without being broken down, even

16:32

when used in heat-producing munitions. So

16:35

what this is is madness and

16:37

fear and panic and blindness in

16:39

a bomb. And then it

16:41

is weirdly durable. BZ

16:43

was manufactured and made part of several

16:46

weapons systems, including U.S. cluster munitions. And

16:48

it wasn't actually discontinued or destroyed until

16:50

1989, and even then only as part

16:53

of a larger effort to reduce our

16:55

stockpiles of chemical weapons in general. Everyone's

16:57

taking a vial home on the last

17:00

day, haven't everyone signed it? BZs?

17:06

BZs. Stupid. Have

17:09

a great summer? What? KIT? Never changed.

17:13

To understand all of these effects, dozens

17:15

of U.S. soldiers were exposed to BZ.

17:18

And the story here is bonkers as well, because technically,

17:22

the soldiers did volunteer to take part

17:24

in an experiment. But

17:26

because the chemicals being tested were part of

17:29

classified programs, they were not informed of which

17:31

chemicals they would be dosed with. And

17:33

so many didn't find out for years after

17:36

they left the service. And then,

17:38

of course, the whole program was classified – secret. So

17:41

the soldiers involved were also unable to

17:43

discuss with anyone, even their

17:45

own doctors, what they had been exposed

17:47

to, even after they had found out.

17:51

I'm not saying it's illegal. I'm just saying,

17:54

are you red as the beat is a

17:56

weird question to play the fiddle at? I'm

17:58

just saying yes or no. No. And

18:02

BZ exposure does seem to

18:04

have long-term consequences, but the

18:06

Army just was not interested in finding

18:08

out what those consequences might be. Despite

18:11

telling the soldiers there would be regular follow-up,

18:14

there just wasn't. They just didn't do it. After

18:17

they were experimented on, everyone just kind of

18:19

washed their hands of these guys, and no

18:22

efforts at all were made to look for

18:24

downstream consequences of these chemical agent exposures. The

18:27

Army just gave everyone a two-day waking

18:30

night terror, decided, hey, we found the

18:32

favorite chemical agent of choice, and then

18:34

they went about weaponizing it with no

18:36

attempt at chronicling the long or even

18:39

medium-term effects. And so

18:41

soldiers exposed to BZ report flashback

18:43

hallucinations and severe mental health problems,

18:45

but then they couldn't gain access

18:48

to VA benefits and disability because

18:50

they were prevented by law from

18:52

disclosing their involvement in the secret

18:54

program. Okay. Well,

18:56

while I remind Tom about the

18:59

real dangers towards our troops, like

19:01

kneeling during our very special flag

19:04

song. We're going to take a big

19:06

break. We're going to take a big break.

19:23

Private tonight. Yes, sir.

19:26

I'm Dr. Bernard. I'll be administering

19:28

your test today. Okay,

19:31

got it, Doc. Nice to meet you. Great.

19:34

Okay, so now I know you signed all the

19:36

forms already, but you understand that

19:38

everything we do today is totally

19:40

confidential. Under no circumstances are

19:42

you to share what I tell you

19:44

today with anybody, not even your family.

19:48

Yes, sir. Understood, sir. May

19:51

I ask, what are you going

19:53

to do? Well, Private, we are going to

19:55

blow into your penis. I'm

20:00

sorry, sir. You're gonna what we're

20:02

gonna blow into your penis I

20:05

mean, we've known about sucking on a

20:07

penis for years damn good time, but

20:10

blowing into a penis Nobody's

20:12

ever tried it That

20:15

can't possibly be true. It's true.

20:18

It's true We asked and while

20:20

many have asked not one person

20:22

has actually tried it well

20:27

Okay, but what is what is gonna happen

20:29

though? I have no idea. Maybe your bladder

20:31

will explode Maybe it'll feel twice as good. We're

20:33

about to find out Doc

20:37

is there something else that maybe I could try

20:39

are you doing any other experience got anything else

20:41

going on today? Prayed not no

20:45

Alright, uh, well, I

20:47

suppose if it's for the good of the nation it is

20:49

it is Hello

20:52

private Smith. I'm dr. Jenkins.

20:54

You damn it Bernard. Are

20:56

you blowing into people's dicks again? You'll never

20:58

take me alive Forgive

21:03

him we gave him ecstasy last week and he's been

21:05

trying to blow it as someone's dick ever since oh

21:10

Okay, am am I gonna get ecstasy?

21:14

No, you're getting a fear potion that never

21:16

stops hurting But

21:19

you're but you're not gonna blow into my dick no,

21:21

I am NOT all right, let's

21:24

do this fear potion Okay,

21:40

he's gone quick do the ad let's do the ad

21:42

right now. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah guys. What why are

21:44

we doing the ad? Well, you know is in the

21:46

bathroom Yeah, it's saying your

21:49

pets. He's gotten out of control

21:51

guys. I told you that episode

21:53

hasn't even aired yet Nobody even

21:55

knows who that is. Yep. You

21:57

think we don't know that Cecil if

21:59

anything that's only cemented senior pets

22:01

more in his heart and mind. So

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don't know, Heath. I love to cook, but

22:36

not everyone has the time, you know? That's

22:38

the thing, Cecil. Factor's restaurant-quality meals are ready

22:40

to heat and eat whenever you are in

22:42

just two minutes. Did

22:44

one of you guys bring in this map of Armenia?

22:47

Map of? No? Oh,

22:50

oh, no. Heath, hurry. Where can

22:52

they sign up? Go to factormeals.com/citation50.

22:55

Use the code citation50 to get 50% off. That's

22:58

code citation50 at factormeals.com/citation50

23:00

to get 50% off.

23:03

The bathroom door is opening. I'll

23:05

call Michelle Bachman's office. Good

23:07

thinking. Yeah. And

23:26

we're back. When we

23:28

left off, Tom had left us

23:30

with the shocking revelation that sometimes

23:33

our government does not air for

23:35

the troops after their service. OK.

23:39

Are you ready to drop another bombshell on

23:41

us, Tom? So

23:45

obviously, if the army is interested in

23:47

these chemicals, remember, too, that the CIA

23:50

loves itself some psychedelics. One

23:53

of the few things me and the CIA have in common. Dirt

23:57

glasses, I guess. White. So

24:00

they collaborated with their friends

24:02

in secret to secretly dose

24:05

civilians with acid. Long

24:07

time listeners will recall our mk ultra episode

24:09

in the edge would experiments were taking place

24:12

pretty much at the same time, including

24:14

operation midnight climax yet so you

24:16

gotta start in the air tonight

24:19

at eleven fifty six and forty

24:21

seconds and. I get

24:23

the horn just right. I'm

24:26

perfect in my climax save you a bunch

24:28

of money CIA idiots.

24:33

So midnight climax was a study

24:35

of what would happen if you

24:37

gave non consenting unsuspecting random dudes

24:40

just a whole bunch of LSD.

24:44

And so naturally the CIA hired a

24:46

bunch of prostitutes. I

24:48

see the CIA uses the company card the same way

24:51

I do. Are

24:55

these prostitutes now on the CIA

24:57

payroll were tasked with luring johns

24:59

to see a established and surveilled

25:02

safe houses. And once

25:04

in the safe houses the johns were

25:07

surreptitiously dose with whatever shit the CIA

25:09

or edge would wanted to experiment with.

25:12

This was often LSD but

25:14

sometimes pcp and possibly other

25:16

compounds were used as well.

25:19

And the CIA guys watch

25:21

the action unfold behind one

25:23

way glass and then the

25:25

prostitutes were instructed no shit

25:28

by the CIA on

25:30

post-coital questioning techniques. See

25:34

if the combination of prostitution

25:36

afterglow and acid would make for a

25:38

decent truth yeah and they realize you

25:40

can just skip the truth serum and

25:42

it's the afterglow pretty much it mostly

25:45

because true here doesn't exist but also

25:47

works by itself. Yeah

25:52

yeah yeah we heard you the first thirty times time

25:54

is a flat circle we get it anything else you

25:56

wanna tell. onestarreviewsonaros.com

26:00

asked too much about fighter

26:03

pilots that's a bit crazy.

26:08

Not enough kissing. Of

26:10

course, LSD and sex workers aren't a

26:12

truth serum. So they

26:15

try to see if they can feed the

26:17

victims subliminal messages and induce

26:19

them to commit crimes such as

26:21

robbery, assault, or assassinations. Huh. So

26:24

failing in the truth serum business, the CA

26:26

was like, maybe we can

26:28

turn this fucking liar into a gun. Yeah,

26:31

they thought to themselves, well, you

26:33

know, nothing helps an assassination quite

26:35

like sweating uncontrollably and suddenly laughing

26:37

at the carpet. But

26:43

the whole operation was a wash and

26:45

drugs and sex workers. And so pretty

26:47

much what happened next was the spies

26:49

just started fucking the sex workers and

26:51

doing a bunch of the drugs, including

26:54

two pounds of an African boner

26:56

drug called Yohimber by the chief

26:59

aide to the top guy running

27:01

the program. Big fight over either

27:03

calling that spy Agra or CIA

27:06

Al. Keith,

27:11

there are children down in the episode wrap-up

27:14

questions dying for lack of puns and you're

27:16

wasting them up here in the essay. All

27:20

I'm going to say, the stated

27:22

objectives. It's me. I'm the children. We

27:25

got that for operation. Midnight

27:27

climax aren't too much different than what you might

27:29

expect, but I'm an outline them for you anyway,

27:32

and I want you to tell me if anything

27:34

jumps out at you. The CIA

27:36

and Edgewood were looking for something

27:38

that would incapacitate the enemy or

27:40

brainwash them or control

27:42

them through mind control or sexual

27:44

behavior control and they

27:47

wanted something to induce amnesia or

27:49

find something they could use to take

27:51

out everyone and an entire building by

27:53

lacing the food and creating confusion, fear,

27:56

anxiety, headaches, and

27:59

ear aches. I like to circle the

28:01

one that doesn't belong. I think it's the last one. They're

28:04

made of hangnail serum on top of

28:06

that. They are terrorized. Say

28:09

what you will. Earaches are by

28:11

far the most incapacitating thing on that

28:13

list. Confusion, earaches,

28:15

nothing. Nothing compared to a

28:17

good earache. They do really hurt. It's fucking

28:20

scary. They really do hurt. They

28:22

were also curious about the effects

28:24

of LSD in combination with isolation.

28:27

So naturally they conducted human experiments by

28:30

just dosing the shit out of guys

28:32

and then isolating them for months at

28:34

a time with limited food

28:36

and water to see if

28:38

the LSD accelerated their mental decline so

28:40

they could be better interrogated. Tune in,

28:43

turn on, drop dead. Is that the

28:45

name of the name? The

28:48

results seemed to

28:50

be inconclusive, which

28:52

if I were kept starved and thirsty

28:54

and alone and tripping balls for months

28:56

and I emerged and then the head

28:59

scientist looked at me as I blinked

29:01

in the harsh light of confused freedom

29:03

and I so much as heard a

29:05

whisper that sounded like the word inconclusive,

29:07

I would tear their throats out with

29:09

my teeth. Yeah. I feel

29:12

like they could find out that isolating you

29:14

for months on acid made you lay golden

29:16

eggs and I still wouldn't have been psyched

29:19

about the problem. It

29:23

wasn't until 1975 that

29:26

these human experiments at Edgewood were halted more than 25

29:28

years after they had begun. During

29:31

this time, hundreds of chemicals of all

29:33

types were tested on thousands of soldiers

29:35

and none of those soldiers received follow-up

29:37

care or had access to disability for

29:40

their service. The director and

29:42

founder of the program, Van Murray Sim,

29:44

was taken a task by Congress for

29:46

basically coercing young soldiers into volunteering for

29:48

these programs and then refusing them that

29:51

follow-up care and services. He

29:53

was like, oh really? Well why don't we see if their

29:55

buddies who we sent to Nam have anything to say about

29:57

that? Oh what's that?

30:00

We sent them to the jungle to die

30:02

for a lie. Aww.

30:08

It was the wind down that made that. I

30:11

should note here that the army conducted

30:13

a very thorough investigation of its own

30:15

behavior, and they concluded that

30:18

they didn't do anything wrong, and that

30:20

none of these chemicals could really hurt

30:22

you and to just generally stop your

30:24

belly aching. Veterans exposed

30:26

these chemicals, thought this was some bullshit, and

30:28

after researching, they discovered that link between the

30:30

CIA and the Edgewood facility, and this was

30:33

important, because while soldiers can't sue

30:35

the government if they get hurt or lied to

30:37

while in service, they sure as shit could

30:39

sue the CIA. I

30:41

feel like the CIA is the government.

30:43

They're not? Well, not enough in this

30:45

case. Oh, okay. And

30:48

in the 1990s, a class action suit

30:50

was filed naming the CIA as the

30:52

defendant, and they sued again in 2009,

30:54

and the claimants wanted only

30:56

to have their experience acknowledged so they

30:58

could receive medical care as a result

31:00

of the suffering they endured as human

31:02

lab rats while enlisted. In

31:05

2013, 38 years after the experiments were

31:07

stopped, the courts sided with the veterans,

31:10

finding that the army had to pretend to give a

31:12

shit, even if they really didn't. And

31:14

the army was then supposed to make efforts to

31:16

track down the thousands of people experimented on so

31:18

they could receive medical care, but they

31:20

pretty much haven't done shit. So I

31:23

guess if you or someone you

31:25

love was experimented on with LSD,

31:27

BZ, PCP, nerve gas, or powerful

31:29

psycho-pharmac kinetic medications while enlisted, you

31:32

might be entitled for tricare,

31:36

I guess. It's

31:38

not a good trick. A fucking tote bag is part of a

31:41

settlement. And

31:43

if you had to summarize what you've learned in one sentence,

31:46

Tom, what would it be? There

31:48

are easier ways to pay for college. Right.

31:51

And are you ready for the quiz? It's stripping.

31:53

Stripping is the easier way to pay for college.

31:55

Yes, I'm ready. I was going to say selling

31:57

better drugs. That's what I did. Hey

32:00

Tom, what's the best name

32:02

for your sex worker weapon? A.

32:05

An astroglided missile. B. C4

32:07

Nicator. C.

32:12

Two in the pink, one in the stink bomb.

32:15

Or D. A

32:17

clusterfuck. Oh, a clusterfuck. Gotta

32:20

be a clusterfuck. That's so

32:22

good. Sure. Sure.

32:24

Sure. Nailed it. Sure.

32:28

Alright, weird energy guys. Tom,

32:30

which of the following is

32:32

the best title for a

32:34

spy movie about their midnight

32:36

climax honeypot operation? Hey,

32:40

zero dark flirty. B.

32:44

The cum of all fears. C.

32:46

Phenomenal. Or an ultimatum. Or

32:49

D. This is the one that caught Donald

32:51

Trump. Tinkle, Taylor,

32:53

Soldier's fire. It's

32:57

gotta be the one that didn't catch Donald Trump and should

32:59

have. D. Correct. Well done.

33:02

Alright, no way I'm going puns with after I

33:04

have to come after fucking Cecil and Heath. So

33:06

I'll go a different way with mine. As

33:09

is so often the case when people talk

33:11

about psychedelics, Tom, you only talked about the

33:13

bad aspects of B.Z. Which

33:16

of the following is its best

33:18

positive aspect? A.

33:21

36 hours on a single dose is

33:23

a lot of bang for the buck. Yeah.

33:27

B. The effort to aerosolize and

33:29

weaponize it was called Project Dork.

33:31

Fun. That's

33:33

real. C. Dermal vestigilation

33:35

is actually kind of relaxing

33:38

if it doesn't lead to outright paralysis. Or

33:41

B. Sometimes temporary blindness is the only

33:43

way to shut out the ugliest of

33:45

the ones. Alright, well

33:47

this is hard because D has my

33:49

heart, but A has my

33:51

wallet and I'm going to vote with my

33:54

wallet. 36 hours on a single dose. Your

33:56

instinct was Practice D. Unfortunately. No,

33:59

you. are this week's winner. All right, so Eli,

34:01

you are next week's essay. Where are you on BZ? Why

34:03

don't you choose that? All right, when on Earth, why on

34:05

Earth would you say that? Blow the

34:08

dust off here. All right, well, for Cecil,

34:10

Noah, Tom, and Heath, I'm Eli Bosnick. Thank

34:12

you for hanging out with us today. We'll

34:14

be back next week and by then, I,

34:17

Eli Bosnick, will be

34:19

an expert on something else. Between now

34:21

and then, Cecil and Tom might have

34:23

shiny new podcasts like Talking Ship and

34:25

Lawful Assembly available wherever you get your

34:27

podcasts, but Heath and Noah and I

34:29

are chugging along on a few dusty

34:32

old ponds you might consider visiting once in

34:34

a while. Like God-Offal

34:36

Movies, The Skeptocrat, or even

34:39

a little bitty known as The Scaming Apiast. And

34:41

if you'd like to help keep this show

34:44

going, you can make a per episode donation

34:46

at atreon.com/Citation Pod, or leave us a five-star

34:48

review every way you can. And if

34:51

you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect

34:53

with us on social media, or

34:55

check the show to be sure to

34:57

check out citationpod.com. And

35:04

then, as you can see, by having Dr.

35:07

Barkins pose as an escaped prisoner trying to

35:09

blow into people's dicks, we got fear, post-acceptance

35:11

up by 120%. Oh, man! Oh,

35:14

man! That was amazing! Dr.

35:16

Jenkins, question. Why'd you ask

35:18

if you could blow into people's dicks? Why

35:20

not, like, you know, poison or something as

35:23

the alternative? Well, you

35:25

know, what should you rather do? Yeah, no,

35:28

the poison is a good point. I get it. Hey,

35:33

what would happen if you blew into somebody? Nobody knows. Sure.